HR BESTIES - Congrats, You're a New Leader! Oh no, You're a New Leader!

Episode Date: August 21, 2024

Today’s agenda:  Love square in the workplace Cringe corporate speak: It is what it is Hot topic: New managers Best Practises Manager training is key Managers create the employee experience Finding resources for development Questions/Comments  Your To-Do List: Grab merch, submit Questions & Comments, and make sure that you’re the first to know about our In-Person Meetings (events!) at https://www.hrbesties.com. Follow your Besties across the socials and check out our resumes here: https://www.hrbesties.com/about.  Re: finding resources for development as a new manager... check out Bestie Ashley’s Manager 101 course: https://www.managermethod.com/manager-101 We look forward to seeing you in our next meeting - don’t worry, we’ll have a hard stop! Yours in Business + Bullsh*t,  Leigh, Jamie & Ashley Follow Bestie Leigh! https://www.tiktok.com/@hrmanifesto https://www.instagram.com/hrmanifesto https://www.hrmanifesto.com Follow Bestie Ashley! https://www.tiktok.com/@managermethod  https://www.instagram.com/managermethod https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyherd/ https://managermethod.com Follow Bestie Jamie! https://www.millennialmisery.com/ Humorous Resources: Instagram • YouTube • Threads • Facebook • X Millennial Misery: Instagram • Threads • Facebook • X Horrendous HR: Instagram • Threads • Facebook Tune in to “HR Besties,” a business, work and management podcast hosted by Leigh Elena Henderson (HRManifesto), Ashley Herd (ManagerMethod) and Jamie Jackson (Humorous_Resources), where we navigate the labyrinth of corporate culture, from cringe corporate speak to toxic leadership. Whether you’re in Human Resources or not, corporate or small business, we offer sneak peeks into surviving work, hiring strategies, and making the employee experience better for all. Tune in for real talk on employee engagement, green flags in the workplace, and how to turn red flags into real change. Don't miss our chats about leadership, career coaching, and takes from work travel and watercooler gossip. Get new episodes every Wednesday and Friday, follow us on socials for the latest updates, and join us at our virtual happy hours to share your HR stories. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

So we've all heard of love triangles, right? Sadly, yes. Have you heard of love triangles in the workplace? Yes. Right? Do you fancy? Sadly, right? Yeah.

Have you ever heard of a love square? I haven't, but I feel like I'm about to, and I'm getting my coffee and putting some Baileys in it. Right. Exactly. Oh my God. So this is my first love square. But at a previous employer, God, get this hot goss.

This is like some real water cooler shit right here. Four employees. That's what makes it a square, obviously. They're sitting at the corners, right? She didn't know. A rhombus? Exactly. A rhombus, right? I mean, a trapezoid. It's a love trapezoid. I don't know, pick a shape. But crazy. I mean, people are fricking tripping. They're crazy. So get this. All employees. One is the manager of the department. Okay, one is the manager of the department.

He, I know, exactly. He is having an affair with one of the employees on his team. Okay, that's two. She is sitting outside his office. Next to her is her husband, who also works at the business in the same department. Not the same team, same department. That's three.

Like cubicle across from her, okay? Just right there, playing psychic. Nobody. Okay, the fourth, who's the fourth? Nobody, nobody. The fourth is the manager, his wife, the finance leader. So these two, manager and employee, are having an affair. Their spouses are right there in the building. And everybody knows except them. Like it's a thing. Everyone's

talking about it. You know what I mean? And it was an actual thing that was happening. How did you learn about it? Everyone was talking about it. And of course, yeah, the water cooler. People will cry. Oh, yeah. She gets a run. They're bringing it up, you know, and then you're watching behavior. What are you going to do about this? Oh, I know. What do you, oh my God, what can you do? Oh gosh. What are you going to do about these grown ass adults behavior? Oh, I know. Oh gosh. Well, I think I had was moving or switching jobs at then. So I got out of that. I know. So I do injection. Good luck with that. I know I'm going or switching jobs at then, so I got out of that. I know, so I had to inject shit about it. Good luck with that.

I know, I'm going to wish them well. As many details as I can to use it on a podcast one day and potentially social media, but anything else? Oh my gosh, can you believe that? That's brazen. Wow. Yeah. Ugh.

Wow, with him. That is brazen. Also, think of like, why does everyone's spouse work there? What the hell? Okay, okay. Well, it is, I mean, honestly, if people are working together, they're living together, it's a setup. It can be a problem to set up.

Normally you think they'd look elsewhere, but I guess if they're glancing across the cubicle, someone's going to be looking really good if you're tired of your spouse. Right. My gosh. Well, I guess there may be the person that was married, maybe there was a power dynamic that her husband, if he was in a cube, but her boss had an office, then that level of power was very attractive to her because having an office is the real prize in corporate. Oh.

Yeah. Well, those two got divorced. The Cubies. Okay. The wife that was having an affair, her husband, they got a divorce. I don't know what happened to the leaders. It's probably for the best. Oh, I know.

Well, you have to let us know after we record. We'll find out. We'll dig in the family court records and find out what we need. I wonder if that's why... This is a really fucked up statement. But I wonder if that's why boomers want to go back into the office so they can have mistress mistresses. That's one thing. Mistresses. That's quite the word. Okay. Okay. That's his option.

It's powerful. That's the answer on Family Feud. We'll see how many that gets from the crowd. Exactly. Exactly. Isn't that fun? So the square. I had a square. The square. I will say, clearly the logistics of that and being able to manage that suggest a certain level of multitasking that probably worked out well enough for the organization to keep them all employed.

So there you go, the silver lining to that. Isn't that some shit? Oh my God. Introducing TD Insurance for Business with customized coverage options for your business. Because at TD Insurance, we understand that your business is unique, so your business insurance should be too.

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Never skip therapy day with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com to learn more. That's BetterH-E.com. Well, on that note, shall we kick off this meeting? All right. Well, let's do a quick run through of the agenda for today's meeting. Thank you so much for showing up to our recurring meeting here. But first things first, we're going to start out with some cringe corporate speak and that's brought to us today by Ashley. Thank you in advance for taking that one on. Appreciate that.

And then we are going to shift into our hot topic of today, which is all about how to be a great manager for new managers, right? So we get that question a lot. We have a lot of folks getting promoted, and that's badass. They reach out and they say, hey, I'm a new manager. I don't know what the hell I'm doing. How do I become a great manager? So we'll share some best practices, just some of our advice writing coaching leaders through our careers on that. So that should that should be a good one. I like that. I love coaching leaders. I know you

too do as well. Ashley. Jamie, do you have time for that today? Okay, let's all start with the cringe corporate speak. For this week, it is it is it is what it is. And where you tend to hear that is like something's gone on, or it's out of somebody's hands, they can't, you know, they can't make. They can't do anything to change something. So they just look and say, it is what it is. And that means, I mean, it really means nothing. Exactly. We ain't doing shit.

Yeah. It means nothing. But have you all heard this at work? Yes. Absolutely. And I say it sometimes. And I mean it as, I ain't doing shit about this. I don't have time. I can't do it. Nothing's going to affect this. Like, hey, it just is

what it is, you know? Like, oh, hey, we fucked this up majorly, but it is what it is. It is what it is. You know what I mean? It is what it is. Or a boss made a shit decision. There's nothing you can do about it. I guess it is what it is. We're fucked. Do you use this, Ashley? I do. It is kind of funny. Someone said this to me once. They were like, why do people say something relatively new to corporates if they still have light in their eyes? Why would people say this? Well, but that doesn't mean anything. It doesn't. But it is kind of the collegial bonding with someone. Often when you're having to clean shit up and being like, you know what, it is what it is and let's just move on. You're acknowledging it, at least.

That we ain't doing nothing. When shitty workplace situations feel seen because people are acknowledging that and you know, yeah, can't do anything about it or now we're going to have the hard work and like I'd love to appreciate that more than the toxic positivity. Much better to be like this situation. So here we are. Yeah, I prefer learn helplessness. Totally.

You choose what to do based on this situation. But like, it ain't going to be different unless we do something about it. And these are the very minimal things that we can do. Now how I don't use it is, well, this is how things have always been here. It is what it is. No, no, no. You know, to me, it's a phrase of I just ain't taking action. Like we're just fucked or whatever.

You know, there's nothing we can do about it, you know? But I do hate it when people like, well, it is what it is. That's how it's always been. No, no, no, no, not like that. Yeah, no. So we've always done it. That's worked. It's worked well.

No, no, no, that's a great point. That's a very different situation and a good one to be mindful of. Thank you, Ashley. That is cringe. Oh, I love it. Well, shifting to our hot topic, I kicked off this episode talking about a bad performing behaving manager. So definitely what not to do as a new manager is have affairs in the office with people on your

team. So we can start there for sure. But hey, but hey, congrats if you're newly promoted or an early manager here in your career. How can we help you, right? What are some of our best practices for new leaders? Ashley, you're an expert in this, I'd say. What do you think? Well, it is, and I love when leaders are asking for this because frequently what I, you know, this is all I do now is like manager training and often for new but even experienced leaders because even the most experienced leaders, what you will hear and you'll hear, especially HR people new to an organization, they look around and they'll say, we have people that were promoted because

they were good at their jobs and they've never gotten training. And it doesn't translate. Yeah. And sometimes these people are like first-line managers, meaning they're just managing individual contributors up through senior executives that have never gotten that training. And so when we hear new leaders asking for this and vocally asking for this, it's really important. And so it is good for HR teams to hear this. And the number one thing that I say that can be helpful is to stop and ask questions. And that can be your instincts. When you come into this manager role, I think a lot of people have this fear of, you need

to know all the answers. You need to be perfect. You're this tough boss. You're thinking about examples that you've seen. But if you really stop and think about it, probably the best leaders you've had have been once. It's qualities like listening, caring, finding out about you. So how you can do that is going around and asking questions.

And again, Plugmai always used for Chad GPT to go in and say, what are questions I should ask my team as a new manager? 99% of people would love for their manager, even if that's where you got those questions. You're not perfect. So using that as a resource can be really helpful. But it's basics. Tell me about your career today, to your direct reports. What are your ideas?

Just asking open-ended and starting those conversations. Asking questions is so much more powerful than coming in and being the expert. Absolutely. Yeah, I love that, Ashley. I mean, I think it's so powerful when a leader says, I don't know, but we're going to figure it out together. It's okay. You do not have to be perfect at all, right? I mean, people just want to know that they have support through a process,

not that you have answers to everything as a leader. In fact, they want to be part of the support through a process, not that you have answers to everything as a leader. In fact, they want to be part of the solution making. So you don't have to come with all the answers all the time as a leader. So I think even just realizing, recognizing that is so powerful, especially for new leaders. No one's expecting perfection.

They really aren't. This isn't the movies. This is real life. So you're going to get a lot more brownie points just being real and authentic with your team, right? Open and transparent. It's always still like so shocking for me too that how many companies don't have manager training in place.

And it's insanely disappointing because I was lucky enough that early in my career, when I was with Marriott, I came in as like an HR generalist role, but I was quickly swept into the management program through Marriott, which is a very robust program. And so I've got years worth of management training that I still use to this day. But I was lucky enough to have that early in my career, because I don't know if I didn't have that, what kind of leader I would be today. But it's just so shocking just working with different companies over the last few years and just not having anything in place. And like you said, Ashley, well, they were good at their job,

but that doesn't necessarily equate into that they'll be a good leader. They did their job well. That's awesome. But we also need to give them the tools, the resources, and also teach them how to be a good manager or a leader. And that's why Manager Method is so powerful. And you have, you know, you are providing a resource to companies that doesn't exist some places. And I'm glad people recognize that enough that they reach out to you for that service.

I appreciate that. I mean, like my reason I created what I do is, again, I've been in legal and HR. And I saw from being a lawyer, I saw in lawsuits, the vast majority of things in the complaint are like, my manager said this, they did that. Sometimes it's like shitty bosses that need to get hauled into court. But oftentimes it's like saying things or treating people differently and creating this situation where in an absence of information, people are like, well, this action must not have been about my performance.

This must have been about my protected class, my race, my gender, my disability status, my family retaliation. And so some of this was like, there are basic things. And I'll talk to managers and they'll show me examples of things. I'm like, well, yeah, this person was doing a shitty job. Why didn't you talk to them about it? Like, oh, well, I didn't want to be mean. I didn't know how to.

Okay. And so then when I moved into HR and this issue of like helping people, like, do you know how to run a meeting? How to delegate and do that in ways that have accountability. Manage people that are your friends. Manage poor performers. I created Manager 101, which is designed to be on-demand videos for organizations, so you can have your managers take this.

But then I have toolkits for you to run follow-up sessions. That's where you can customize it, drive it to life, bring it to life. So I have this for organizations and shout out to people that have reached out to me because of the podcast. And so it's a whole package for organizations. But really the goal is because the number one thing I hear from every single call I ever have in HR is, we have people that are promoted and they haven't gotten any training. And that's why I often say, you should have up through senior leadership. Often it's unlimited, so you can choose who you enroll and who you don't want to enroll.

When you have senior leaders take the training, then that also helps with new managers. They go and they tell their family and friends, I'm taking the same training my CEO is taking. Or if you say, managers take this training, but the CEO is too busy. Some of this is just these fundamentals that managers need to know and understand. Your role as a manager can bring liability to the company on the bad side. But on the good side, you can have really strong ripple effects on people's lives and who they are, how they perform at work, and how they live outside of work. With Uber Reserve, good things come to those who plan ahead.

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Crypto trading involves risk of loss. See kraken.com slash legal slash ca dash pru dash disclaimer for The most fascinating thing to me, you know, I'm an org behavior nerd, is that we know research-wise that people leave because of other people and people typically leave because of other people, and people typically leave because of their manager, right? A poor, unhealthy relationship with the manager, misalignment, whatever. So we know that the leaders, the managers are important, right? We know they are very, very, very important and really create the employee experience for each and every individual employee. And yet, very few, very few, I saw a study back in the day, but maybe like 5-10% of organizations

have really unlocked the sauce on leadership development and manager training. Very few. So it's like people aren't investing, companies aren't investing in this space when, oh my God, that's why people are leaving. That's what actually drives the employee experience. And see, being a manager, being a leader, isn't innate knowledge or intrinsic, you know, knowledge that we are all born with. It's much like parenting, right? There's no playbook for this shit until there is. You have to actually build it as an organization and provide that support and resource because being a manager is very much so in art and science. There's real theory here. It's a thing, right? People spend their careers

training on it, developing tools for it. You have a business on it, Ashley, right? I mean, this is a thing, you know, that really takes a lot of support and guidance and expertise. And so an investment in this space is just, oh, it's so key and critical, but it's a place that people miss. And so if you are a new manager, request and ask for that development and training.

Hopefully it's in-house. If it's not, perhaps find something and ask for that development and training. Hopefully it's in-house. If it's not, perhaps find something and ask for support from your leader to invest in you in that way, right? Because no one knows this shit. So don't sit in that new manager job and be like, how do I not know this? Everyone else seems to know this. They don't. They do not.

They've been trained. It's experiential. It's on the job. It's formal training, education, whatever, right? But raise your hand and ask for those resources because in no way should you be expected to know how to be a manager your first day. It just doesn't work like that, right? While you're talking, I wanted to Google the exact percentage because I was curious, and it's 75% of workers voluntarily leave their jobs, did so because of their boss. People quit their jobs, they don't quit jobs,

they quit their bosses. That's from a study from Red Rock. So yeah, I mean, it's just such a simple thing that I feel like every company should have, or at least have a way to get to it. Exactly. I remember there's a study, I've talked about this, I can't remember if we have on the podcast or not, but UKG did a study in 2023 that talked about the ripple effects of managers, and someone's direct manager has more of an impact

on their health than their doctor or their therapist, roughly on par with their spouse or partner, if you have a spouse or partner. And it is because the manager creates that environment. And there may be policies, there may be things, everything is coming through that lens, the voice of the manager. And that's what people think about. And so one of the things I think is really important for managers to know is your goals

as a manager aren't just spreadsheet goals. They're not just financial goals. The people aspect to that is making sure that you are driving performance with empathy, which means getting things done the right way. So just thinking about situations. In every situation, questions you can ask yourself, okay, if we hit this, are we going to burn people out? And in having those conversations? And again, it's those questions to the team. So even topics like if you become a manager, let's say you have a manager and you have a team and that team has had conflict, maybe you were part of it, maybe not.

But talking as a team, so not just with the other managers, but talking about how do we move forward together? And I say that because when you get perspective from others, like I was leading a session for a team recently and it was the whole team. And one of the things they talked about is there'd been a lot of change and people saying there's been change or like there's been conflict, maybe not with each other, but with other people like what do you do to get past that? And someone spoke up, this was not a person in senior management, this team.

Someone spoke up and she's like, I don't know if this will resonate with anybody else. Your job as a manager is to let people know no one ever has to apologize for speaking up or qualify that, as this may sound stupid. No, give people that empowerment. But she spoke up, which is a kudos to this team's leader, and she said, I'll just say this quote from Jelly Roll that spoke with me, and people kind of laugh and we're like, you know, but she's like, I know, she's like, she's like, you know, there's a reason that the windshield is bigger than the rear view

mirror. And I hadn't heard that before. And that's a quote from Jelly Roll. I don't know if he said that when he was winning like a CMA award. And a lot of his was talking about the struggles that he had, a bit about professional success and looking like no matter what shit you've gone through, no matter what you've had to experience, what is ahead of you is limitless. But you can also think about that. We were talking about that with conflict in the workplace. She did this great, she's like,

I just think about that, thinking, I can't control things. There are things other people have done differently, things I would have done differently, but like moving ahead. In that quote, I mean, people were like tearing up talking about that. I've now used that quote. I've made like YouTubes on it. I've used it in other sessions. And it's because someone who did not have a big leadership title, but is a great professional spoke up and said that.

And so as a manager, just know some of the best contributions will come from people who may have never had a microphone within that team environment. Mm-hmm. Gosh, I love that, you know. I love that too. I knew you'd love that. I knew you'd love that too. Yeah, I love that. Like that's such a mic drop. I love it, Nashville. But man, you know, for me, when I coach new leaders, I love to remind them something along the lines of what you just shared, that the performance of your team and your people is a reflection of your own success. There is no reason to be threatened. In fact, you want everyone else in the room smarter than you. That's what you want. You want to plug your team full of people that know the shit you do not know.

That is how I hire. I hire for what I am not good at. I'm higher for what I do not know. And I want smarter people in the room than me so that I can learn. What I'm good at is leadership. I'm not good at knowing everything. Right? So I think the best managers get that, and they aren't threatened.

And that's a trap a lot of new leaders fall into because they were subject matter experts that got promoted, and they still want to do everything. It's hard for them to delegate. They can feel a little threatened by other people now doing the work, and other people doing the work in ways they would not have done the work, but that's okay. The work's still getting done, right? So chill. It can be, people do things differently. It is what it is, guys. It is what it is. But that's a big one, to not be threatened and really see that performance

of your people as a reflection of your own abilities and success, right? People be getting threatened, man. It's like, damn. I know. Part of it, I do think, is this, if you're good at your job, depending on what your job is, you may have been intrinsically or encouraged to be competitive with your peers, be better than your peers.

And so... Absolutely. Then all of a sudden, like, how do you teach someone to start from scratch? Like, I don't fucking know. I don't remember. That was a while ago. How do I coach someone who's not performing? I don't fucking know. I don't remember. That was a while ago. How do I coach someone who's not performing?

Like, just cut them loose. Those behaviors, it's really easy to understand why those happen. But just sitting and talking about things like feedback. When I was a lawyer, for example, law firms are notorious. People rarely have any management training, but you're often lawyers managing lawyers. And so it's even thinking about feedback. I would write a long legal document, work my ass off for it, and I might see it on my chair with red ink all over it and just changes, but I don't understand why some of those changes

were made. And so it's like anything. If you have talking to your team members and sitting down, give them feedback, ask, do you have questions about this? Let's talk about it. That conversation, which can feel overwhelming if you have a big team, but have those conversations, that is an investment in time that will pay off dividends because then that person's going to come to you with questions. Everything will be easier and that ultimate work will be better.

I love that. Oh gosh, there's so much in this space, right? But if your organization does not have manager training, shout out Manager Method. Ashley, plugging you here again. I tell you. Manager 101, I now have Manager 201, which is strategic, which a bunch of exercises

and have organizational packages. So thank you all. But yeah. God, do something though, right? Because again, your leaders are so important. You are so important if you're a manager. And I'll tell you just the investment in training. Oh my gosh. It is so profound and it is going to cost you way less than your attrition. It really is. And that cost of backfilling. Yes.

In your environment, I know that saying people say, okay, what if I invest in my people and they leave? Well, what if you don't and they stay? And I can't remember who says that. It's so good. We'll put it on our Instagram. When it just, it is that to me is very, and if you haven't heard that, like stop and think about that again.

It's, it's great. Let it, let it soak in. It is what it is, you know what I'm saying? You're so good. I tell you, both of you guys, I haven't gotten one since like second episode. And I don't, now I'm not going to. I've delegated that task to the two of you.

You're both good at that. There you go. Just like a good manager would. Thank you. It's our expertise. Let us have it. Let us shine, okay? So to that point, should we segue into some questions and comments? Any questions and

comments? I have one for you all. If you have like a book or resource that you recommend for managers in particular. Besides manager method? Yeah, I mean, I'm just there. I'm going to plug y'all again. I know, right? Thank you. Yeah, least coaching. I know. My future book coming out.

Yeah. But one that you think of? Jamie's nothing. No, I'm just kidding. No, I don't know if I have a book, per se, but I would strongly encourage anyone who is early on in their career to seek out in an employer that has manager training,

or even like in college. I know that, for instance, I had to have an internship to graduate. And so a lot of people went to Enterprise Car Rental because they had this, back at the time, I don't know now, I can't speak on it, but they had this phenomenal manager training program. And so that that would be my thing is do your research, ask questions and interviews, because it really

helps you in your career throughout your career. I have a book, it's called Lessons from the Drive Thru by because it really helps you throughout your career. I have a book, it's called Lessons from the Drive-Thru by Monica Rothgarry. So she was most recently the chief operating officer of KFC. We did not actually work together, but I now know her. But she had been in the military and out of the military was recruited to Taco Bell. They were doing this program.

And so she was a restaurant manager. But her book is all about lessons as a Taco Bell restaurant manager. And it is the best book on business I have read because it reads like a novel. It's really compelling, but it has lessons that you can bring to any industry. So shout out to Monica. It's a terrific, really terrific book. So we'll put in the notes and the socials. Lee?

Yeah. I'd say my number one resource is HR Besties Podcast. I don't know if you've heard of it, but HRBesties.com or wherever you get your podcasts if you want to check that out. I've read a shit ton of business books. I love the various perspectives and I can go read my shelf out here in the living room. But where I feel I learn the most honestly, especially now in my career, are listening to people's real stories on the socials.

I'm going to be honest with you. So I learn a lot that way. And I read into a lot of it. I kind of analyze it, right? Because you all know I love my documentaries and I, all my org behavior, I owe bullshit. And so that's where I really, I learn a lot about kind of what leaders are doing out there, what they shouldn't be doing, like all the things, you know?

So I'm gonna be honest with you. I do watch a lot of HR online in that sense and read a lot of articles and whatnot. So that's probably where I'm getting my most learnings nowadays. I love that. Yeah, and we do. I mean, we all put a lot of time into putting things like video things online, but the best feedback that we often get, I know we've all gotten it, is from people that say, like,

I don't have a budget for these things, but like I watch and I feel like I learn. And that's and I think there's a, you there's us and other resources. Social media can be a fantastic place for it. Questions or comments? I just have a quick comment. One thing I think from an HR perspective I see a lot in managers is they forget that their employees are human, and they also need some grace and some flexibility and some

empathy. And I can't tell you how many times managers have come to me like flustered about something. You know, their child's sick again. Okay, it is what it is. Like they need to work from home today or whatever it is or, you know, they got to work from home the first half of the day until their husband comes home or whatever it is, or they got to work from home the first half of the day until their husband comes home or whatever it is. I think managers are so quick to forget, well, their hours are X to X or they need to get this done, but just remember as a manager, give your staff some grace.

Totally. I love that. In bad things in life, don't tend to happen at convenient times. Exactly. Shit happens. And people also, when people go through seasons of life where they have those, and so don't tend to happen at convenient times. Exactly. It should happen. And people also, when people go through seasons of life where they have those and so don't always assume the worst. Well, I can't do any of this because they'll take advantage of me.

You will, as a manager, you will get taken advantage of. But it's better to get stepped on a few times and deal with those separately. They tend to happen in other ways. But showing that grace and space. Spot on. Lee? Yeah, exactly. Address the 10% offline.

You don't have to rule to that. I love that. Not a question, but a quick comment from me. What I'd say is for new managers out there, if you are concerned whether you're a good manager or not, if you are concerned that you are maybe a bad manager or whatnot, chances are you're a great one or you're becoming a great one. Why? Because you care, right? It means so much to you to succeed at being a good manager. And again, being a manager isn't something that's innate knowledge

that we all know. Like all things, you have to practice, learn, develop, try things on, experience. You have to get good at it, right? Even LeBron James still does practice, y'all. I mean, that's how that works. And leadership is a journey in that way. But again, if you're asking the question, am I a shit manager? Am I good? Am I this? Am I that? Gosh, you care, and chances are you're a great one because of that care. Love that. So keep leaning in. Ask for that development.

Get some on your own if your company isn't sponsoring or paying for that. But it's important. If you feel like you're drowning as a new manager, you're just new. You're going to figure it out, but just keep working at it. No one knows this shit. They're just making it look easy. Okay. Rewind and listen to that like six times.

Exactly. Give yourself grace too. You're an employee as well. Oh, well gosh, we appreciate you. Thank you so much for joining the meeting. I love that everyone was on time today. Thank you so much for that. Jamie likes that we're off time. She's ready. Heart stop. Exactly. Heart stop. Bye besties.