HR BESTIES - Corporate Politics

Episode Date: June 19, 2024

Today’s agenda:  How Jamie found a work bestie Cringe corporate speak: lipstick on a pig Hot topic: Corporate Politics What is Corporate Politics? Pre and post meetings How Corporate Politics fits into a toxic workplace Questions/Comments  Your To-Do List: Grab merch, submit Questions & Comments, and make sure that you’re the first to know about our In-Person Meetings (events!) at https://www.hrbesties.com. Follow your Besties across the socials and check out our resumes here: https://www.hrbesties.com/about.  We look forward to seeing you in our next meeting - don’t worry, we’ll have a hard stop! Yours in Business + Bullsh*t,  Leigh, Jamie & Ashley Follow Bestie Leigh! https://www.tiktok.com/@hrmanifesto https://www.instagram.com/hrmanifesto https://www.hrmanifesto.com Follow Bestie Ashley! https://www.tiktok.com/@managermethod  https://www.instagram.com/managermethod https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyherd/ https://managermethod.com Follow Bestie Jamie! https://www.millennialmisery.com/ Humorous Resources: Instagram • YouTube • Threads • Facebook • X Millennial Misery: Instagram • Threads • Facebook • X Horrendous HR: Instagram • Threads • Facebook Tune in to “HR Besties,” a business, work and management podcast hosted by Leigh Elena Henderson (HRManifesto), Ashley Herd (ManagerMethod) and Jamie Jackson (Humorous_Resources), where we navigate the labyrinth of corporate culture, from cringe corporate speak to toxic leadership. Whether you’re in Human Resources or not, corporate or small business, we offer sneak peeks into surviving work, hiring strategies, and making the employee experience better for all. Tune in for real talk on employee engagement, green flags in the workplace, and how to turn red flags into real change. Don't miss our chats about leadership, career coaching, and takes from work travel and watercooler gossip. Get new episodes every Wednesday and Friday, follow us on socials for the latest updates, and join us at our virtual happy hours to share your HR stories. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I gotta tell y'all about the time that it was my first day at a new job and I walk into the office. I'm greeted by the CHRO and my new co-workers. It was a startup, so it was a very small HR department. There was me, the CHRO, a benefits manager, and then a recruiter and just little old me, right? I was a good 10 years though already in my career, okay? And we're welcoming and the recruiter was like, I actually brought breakfast for us to welcome you. And it was so nice. Matter of fact, that person is still one of my work besties 10 plus years later. So she was very welcoming and she was great. And the CHRO looks at me. Remember, first day I literally just walked in the door and she was like, Oh, you should go get us some coffees and

some forks and knives. You. Oh my gosh. Welcome. Now do keep in mind I'm, I'm 10 years in. I'm, I'm above entry level. I'm like mid, mid level at this point. I'm probably the youngest though, still between the three of them. So now I'm the fourth, right. And I looked shocked because not because I wouldn't go get the coffee and the forks, but I don't even know where the fuck to go, right? I literally just walked in the building. Right. So you're like, I'll go to McDonald's. I'll be right back. Oh my gosh. Okay. So thank gosh. I'm going to actually shout out my work bestie. Her name is Brandy. She looks at me and she's like, Hey girl, come here. I'm going to show

you where they're at. So she knew enough, like how fucking ridiculous is that? So she takes me to the kitchen and she helps me get, you know, figure out coffee orders essentially and getting forks and knives. And she was like, don't worry. She's a bitch like that. And I'm telling you that solidified our relationship that we're still friends to this day. I think that was in 20, yeah, 2014. But she couldn't say that during the interview. Well, you know what? She thought you needed a workmate. She's like, I need her. I need her. Yeah. I should have known honestly in the interview because I interviewed with the recruiter and the benefits manager during my interview and it was great. And we all vibed so well. It was an incredible

interview and then the CHRO came in and just the questions she were asking, they were off color questions. I wish I could remember. She asked something if I was married. Oh, yeah. She asked. And I remember like my eyes going wide. She asked looking at my address and where I was located, she asked if my commute was going to be an issue for me because I lived like a good 45 minutes away from the city. Yeah. She asked about childcare, like all the things that you're not supposed to ask. She's like a training video. Yeah. Oh God. Y'all, I have so many stories about this woman. She, I ended up staying at this company for five

years. It's a very long story. I actually told a story about it on TikTok about I stayed there because me and my husband were trying to conceive my youngest. And that's part of the reason why I ended up staying for as long as I could. Like you needed stability. Yeah. And benefits. And benefits and all that. All the things. Yeah. Literally. But literally, but honestly,

working there with those two other women, my bestie, and then another, the benefits manager, we were so close and we vibe so well and we just got done. And like I said, I actually currently work with that bestie again and she's amazing and I love her so much, but we got through some shit. And imagine asking someone. It's kind of like when I told you all the story about that poor girl that didn't even know where the bathroom was. Like she's already asking me to get coffee. But the worst part is that continued on for the five years. Oh yeah. I was going to ask if she continued to turn you into her bitch. Even as we grew, because it was a startup and we added positions, even lower levels,

recruiting coordinators, I was still always the bitch. She would outright say that I was her right and left hand, but she didn't give me the respect. Yes, her bitch. Yeah. Oh my gosh. She had a close fist when it came to giving you. I have so many stories about her.

There'll probably be another one on the phone. Right? And it's a good thing we got season 12 come out. I know, exactly. So many stories about her. Now, what would you have done, Ashley? I'm curious if it's your first day. You literally just walked in the building. There are a couple minutes, right?

Yeah, literally. I mean, like really. And you were asked by the head honcho to basically start just doing stuff like menial tasks not related to your job. You don't know where anything is. Right. I mean, I'd probably, I mean, I'd probably look, look to my left and right to see if I was getting punked. And when I saw she was serious, I probably would have been like the fuck and I would have been so resentful and that would have bubbled up and things. And I would have thought, I would have thought when going to get the coffee, I would have

thought that where else was I interviewing? What are the opportunities for this? What the fuck? Do I really need this job? I would have been texting my girl's restaurant. I would have been unproductive from day one. Oh yeah. Well, shut you down, right?

Yeah. What about you? Are you? Well, y'all know I'm just a tad transparent, but I typically roll it in sugar, right? I mean, I am Texan. So I was just thinking that, like, what would I have done? And I think I would have said something like, I just got here.

What? What the fuck do you have in the world? Like, I would make jokes, like, to point out how people are. Right, you are, not you, but you know, her. Exactly, like, I don't wanna call you dumb as hell, okay? Like, that would be rude, but I'm gonna be like, I just got here, like, where is everything? You know, and I would,

ha ha ha, like, kind of put it in that dumb, like, laugh chuckle, like, you're tripping, bitch, without saying it, you know? Because I wouldn't have moved. And I knew that I wouldn't have done that because I would, like you said, I wouldn't have known where to go or anything. I'm so thankful for my work bestie that are like, easily was like dumbfounded by that question. Matter of fact, she still tells people that story.

Like on Jamie's first day, she told me, right? Yeah, because she even knew was like, that was insane. Right. She probably was like, what? You know? I'm not below getting anyone coffee. That's not, that wasn't it. It was the fact that I literally had walked in, I am not kidding.

It probably hadn't been 10 minutes. Right. Well, I don't think, she should have got you coffee. Exactly. In any type of environment, it should not be anyone's job to continuously get coffee. People can get their own coffee. And even in an assistant type role, like we've all seen Devil Wears Prada, even in an assistant type role, generally your assistant to set someone up for professional success. That does not mean you're someone's

bitch and go and get it. And there's some people that love that stuff. Like I know all sorts of people that like that's, that's what they, they absolutely love. But in a appropriate, respectful workplace culture, everybody can go and get their own shit. Cause I was like, what are you going to have a tray come back to like, I know like when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you,

when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, obviously you have to bring hers first. Otherwise, you're going to get it. And I hadn't even put down my purse yet. No, I'm not kidding you. Did you take your purse? I see. I would have been so weird. Did I walk in my purse?

And it was in February. So I had a coat on. Turned it into a fanny pack. Well, shit, what do I do in this situation? It's like literally my like I said, my friend Brandy was like, here, here's your desk, bitch. Oh, it was like, let me put my stuff. I don't like that. Oh, gosh. Well, Jamie, here's your desk. Bitch. Oh my God. And was like, let me put my stuff down. I don't like that.

Oh gosh. Well, Jamie, welcome to this podcast. That's more welcome than you got in that job. That's for damn sure. I'm Becca Platsky, CPA Scorned. And I'm Adam Platsky, Data Analytics Playboy. And we're the hosts of Corporate Gossip. It's the business podcast for gossip lovers.

We make complex business topics fun and easy to understand by treating Bloomberg like a gossip mag. You think reality TV is messy? You haven't even met the billionaire CEOs we cover in our podcasts. It kind of makes you think they might not be qualified for their jobs. Ha ha ha ha.

It's funny because it's true. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you though for joining our meeting today. We've got a good one for you, I think. That was our hot dog straight from the water cooler, courtesy of Jamie. And, you know, on the agenda for today, we are going to transition into some cringe corporate speak. And that's going to be brought to y'all today by moi. That means me in French. And then I know I just randomly I like starting to speak another language. All right. And

then we're going to move into our hot topic of the day. And that is anything and everything having to do with corporate politics. Oh gosh, don't we love them? We do, right? Everyone's shaking their heads here. Big size, big size around the room. Oh gosh, it's about to get more politically. But we will discuss that today. And then as always, of course, we will transition into questions and comments. So may I please go ahead and kick us off with our cringe corporate speak of the day? Yes, please. Yes.

You know when you're in court as a lawyer, you generally have to start arguments, or at least you do in law school when you're pretending to be in court, and you have to say, may it please the court. Oh, so I should say that. That's corny. Yeah. May it please the besties. May it please the besties.

I would like to continue with the cringe corporate speak. I am approved. All right. Well, what I got for y'all today, I don't know if it's like a regional thing or if it's universal, but lipstick on a pig. Does anyone use that? Lipstick on a pig? I've heard it.

I've never used it though. I've definitely heard it. All right. Lipstick on a pig. So I'm sure some people are cringing as you should, but lipstick on a pig is just trying to make something ugly pretty. Right? So they say pigs are ugly.

And I've seen some cute pigs like, babe, remember that shit? Like cute little thing. Oh, I love that movie. Yeah. So it's kind of offensive to piglets, you know, and Piglet himself is a presh from the poos. But yeah, Lipstick on a Pig, just trying to, you know, make something dumb, ugly and ridiculous we're doing at work.

You know, we're trying to prettify something. This was used a lot for me at a defense contractor that I worked for. So maybe a more traditional, seniority-based workforce, a little bit old school, and definitely very Texana where I was living at the time. So to me, I always wondered, oh my gosh, is this just a regional thing? It's just like, because there's lots of pigs around, literally and figuratively. Is that why we're using this? People love that.

We'll put lipstick on a pig. But for me, it was kind of like they would say that when it was the most dire situation. You couldn't make it pretty. I was bleeding. There was nothing to give us a slaughtered pig. It was a Hawaiian pig. With just slated. Exactly. Like how am I supposed to prettify that thing? You know, this ship's done sailed. You know, the brand polished apple. There you go. There's a poison apple. Yeah. I was like, I'm sorry. I'm, you know, I'm not a magician, but that's okay.

Alrighty. There's our cringe corporate speak. Transitioning into corporate politics. Who wants to kick us off on that? I'll kick us off. I'm curious what different people think it is, but generally corporate politics, the way you can see it is if you're in that situation and you're like, this is what we should do, but we cannot do that because this person likes this, this person likes this, especially people in leadership. And so you have to think like all of a sudden strategically, and you can't just have a very natural conversation. And like, this is why, because they'll say, okay, well, okay, well, we got to do this

and we have to do the PowerPoint and these in this font, we have to use the specific font and then, well, we can't have these people in the same room because 20 years ago they have this situation and so we're going to have to and they disagree. And so it's this idea of having to think about nonsensical aspects of work because of relationships where like especially leaders don't get along. I mean, it really is looking, if you're looking at like, if you think of a preschool, like the twos class, maybe threes, maybe threes class, where it's like the kids are starting to like have different, and you have to be very strategic of like, well, this one doesn't nap and this one's still in a diaper. And that's, and to

me that's what politics is. Exactly. It's especially in that leadership suite and like, we have to treat people very, and think about their sensitivities as opposed to literally being able to lay out something and get things done quicker. The corporate politics, I think there are a lot of leaders that don't have self-recognition, self-awareness to know that they've been self-elected into office and they may not realize it because they are someone that has certain particularities that are requiring the corporate politics. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, for me personally, where I see the corporate politics that are just ripe, I mean, just like overwhelming, like that is probably the majority of your workday, are those orgs that I've worked in personally where the length of service was extensive, right? Where people reference themselves as lifers. The organizations where that is the only place they've ever worked, because you can imagine, right? Just all the incestuousness and the relationships and the nepotism and the favoritism. They've grown up with these people, air quotes. I worked at a business where, not kidding, it was like a slap in the face how much I had to consider the corporate politics on the daily. I estimated it was probably 75,

80% of my workday. Like legit. I was having meetings about meetings, the pre-meetings about meetings and the 10 meetings. Pre-meeting. Oh my God. You've never... Please tell what it means. If anyone has never been in a pre... Because someone is hearing that. What the fuck are you? I remember the first time I heard the concept pre-meeting and I was like, what is that? And my eyes were wide because like, no, but that's a meeting. That's an unnecessary meeting to me. But yet it's totally necessary if, you know, for your own self preservation in cultures like this, where, you know, there's just lots of corporate politics, but a pre meeting to your question is a meeting that you have to have to game plan and strategically kind of figure out how you will attack the actual meeting itself.

You're going to talk about things like, should we even invite that person? Should we disinvite this person? If it's in person, where are people sitting? Let me sit here so I can tap her on the shoulder to just kind of, hey, let's meet yourself. You're literally talking about positions in the room. You're talking about content, overly talking about content, you're over sanitizing content, because it's like, okay, this is the pre meeting for that meeting, since we already invited so and so, we'll go ahead and talk about this subject. But we'll clean the deck for the real meeting without that guy that we're going to

have. We'll put that information back in. I mean, just the most ridiculous things. Yeah. unique, so your business insurance should be too. Whether you're a shop owner, a pet groomer, a contractor, or a consultant, you can get customized coverage for your business. Contact a licensed TD insurance advisor to learn more. And to echo your sentiment, Lee, is what I was going to say is where I've seen the worst rampant corporate politics have been in the companies that been the most toxic for me. Of course. Of course. And so I can think of two companies of the handful that I've worked at and just the same, yeah, the pre-meetings, the meeting after the meeting too.

The post-mortem. The post-mortem. Yeah. After the projects or the thing. Yeah, that's right. I mean, that's... And in those, I never felt like I could be successful HR professional in those... I mean, I was able to do a limited portion of my job, but I could never truly be successful

because of the bullshit politics. You should be like a referee. Yeah. There's some bullshit hierarchy and the NEP babies or, you know, so and so spend their 25 years plus and well, this is how we've always done it. So that's cute, Jamie, that you want to try it this way, but that's not going to happen. So those are always like the just like, I'm thinking back to one place in particular and I'm thinking back to one place in particular. And I'm like,

I'm like, yeah, I know. She's cringing. She is shaking. I don't, I don't think I realized while I was in it, I mean, I knew it was bad, but I don't, I didn't really realize until I left how bad it was. And the fucked up part, I don't know if I, I don't think I've ever said this on the podcast or a Tik Tok is. Or two avenues. I was. I know my two avenues of communication. So I got.

If a word falls from Jamie's mouth and it's not on the podcast or on Tik Tok, did it was itself. Well, I don't want to repeat a story and like be boring as fuck. So, um, I, so anyway, my point is the one specifically specifically the one place I'm thinking of is I got really ill and, um, I actually ended up having pneumonia and the thought of me being out sick was worse than me like, and then talking about me. Even being sick was worse for me than having pneumonia and legitimately being sick. And that's when I knew I had to leave because my worry, my anxiety, the stress,

the physical illness of actually just me being sick wasn't worth being in that environment and the politics. And yeah, I mean, because of like losing like political ground or control or standing, or they're all just going to be talking about me because that's what they do. Blame it on that. Exactly. That was their M.O. So when anyone went on vacation or was out, it was like, shit moved differently. So like, oh, this person, let's say I have a person reporting

to me this happens. So I'm being very obvious. Jamie's out. So we're going to move this person under someone else. We're going to fire this person real quick. No, literally. They just didn't like them. Even though I had no write ups on my person. We don't want to manage them this week. Literally. And it was just so cutthroat and just, you know, and so like that corporate politics equals toxicity to me. Yeah.

Well, and I think it's HR and having been in legal, are two of the departments, I think, have a lot in corporate politics where, if an idea stems from those two departments, legal by far being the worst. An idea can never originate in legal. You can't ever say legal's driving this project, because then CEOs are like, fuck that, like absolutely not. And so frequently it was in legal and HR thinking about how do you get finance on board

and turn this into a finance driving this. And so it's like that relationship of like, okay, well we have to loop in this person because they happen to have the CEO's ear. And so I'm sure there are some of those listening that are in HR that are like, they know that this can't be an HR or people pushing this. And so sometimes we talk about this of what can you do in the workplace. And so I think having these conversations within your team, and you'll see this in our discussion guide and in our email, if you get our HR Besties weekly emails, which if

you don't, you should, but is to think about starting with your team, starting with yourself and then starting with your team of where are we spending unnecessary energy at work? What are the things you think about? And one very real example as well in corporate politics is like an email subject line. And asking people, do you feel like- I'm not going to you for subject line. I know. Do you have to think about how you order these things and you don't give me fucking- Oh, the invitees. The invitees. The invitees. The CCs, BCCs. How do you do the order of these? And I know, I mean, I remember as a lawyer, a law firm lawyer, and emailing the client,

it was like, think about the client, think about their job title, think about this. Then our lawyers should be on CC because we're not the client. Where like this level of like energy and thinking about that, and some of it I think in legal and HR, I'll just talk about HR,

is there is some helpful conversation. Like especially as I was more junior in my career, especially coming up in corporate, is like, again, if you're talking about things as nice to have, well, this will make everybody happy. This is the right thing to do. That's generally not going to get you across the line, unfortunately, in corporate. But just having this idea of someone you're talking to, what do they care about? And some of that can be good because when it's political, it's not, if it's like credit and who's idea. But when it's like thinking about what other people care

about and what are you maybe not thinking? Like if you're doing this, like, OK, what's the financial implication and what's going to be realistic here? And so I think there can be some angles of thinking about other people involved. But if you talk to your team and you're like, this seems like a wasted time effort,

I think the email listing of subject line, listing of email addresses is a very real one and who's invited to the meeting. Then someone's not people, everybody bitches about meetings until they're not invited to the meeting. I feel like I should have been on it. I don't know. I wasn't in this meeting. So like, I don't know. Yeah. I'm done. I'll have no part in this because it's like the sensitivity. I mean, again, it goes back to the threes class. Well, I wasn't in duck, duck, goose. So fuck y'all. So yeah, I mean, there's very real emotions, right? Everything that's happening out in the real world is copy pasted into the workplace because people, right? That's the

constant, right? So people- Pee-pee. Yeah, yeah. People be peopling and people are bringing all their baggage and their pain and their joy and all of that. And so there are a lot of hurt feelings, which I feel is kind of the impetus, the, you know, just the core of corporate politics. I swear that's what it is. It's the feels, right?

But we put this, you know, these big words on it, but really that's what it is. It's like kids on the playground, and they didn't want to play with me, and they did, and all of this. And that's where, I know we've talked about this previously in other episodes, that emotional intelligence, those softer skills really come into play. The ability to influence, my gosh, that is so key and critical to really survive and master an environment that just has rich corporate politics. But from my opinion, I love to hear y'all's, you can't change an environment like that, right?

Because you're just one person. You can do good things. But for me, I felt as though, well, hey, that is just a reflection of a culture that, again, in my experience has been occurring and growing for a hundred plus years. Like, I'm not going to be able to really turn this. I can run my team this way. I can lead this way. I can make impressions and impacts this way. This is just the ticket to play. Like, it is just going to be part of it. You know what I mean? And it's very derailing to my job sometimes. And is that okay with me?

Right? Because people ask me, well, how do I get rid of the politics? That's going to be that environment. You know what I mean? So- It's going to be that. But sometimes it's, well, I've had, where I've had some success in like moving the needle,

which is probably cringey to speak, because it is, you're not going to change things. You are not. And if you try to come in and present, like, well, this is what I hit. You might be right, but you will be wrong as hell. Like you will be like, you better, you better pack your bags. You remember, I love to say, do you want to be right? You want to be happy.

It's spot on. And so, but it's thinking about if you can, and sometimes it's asking people like the words pilot program, sometimes just get given it a try. Like, could we try this and this? Like, again, while that shouldn't be needed, sometimes that's where you can make the change is to show something in a group and show how that happens and show the results. Because there is that root of fear and fear up through the top levels of the CEO is afraid of the board. The board is afraid of publicity, shareholders, depending on the organization.

Everybody has that built in fear. They try to do that by having control, which means everybody else sees those ripple effects. I remember one quick story. Someone in my comments had, and I thought this was a really good example of corporate politics. They said they got to ride in the corporate plane for the first time. They were like, I got to. They're like, but someone stopped me as I was getting ready to go on the corporate plane for the first time. And they were like, I got to. And they're like, but someone stopped me as I was getting ready to go on the plane. They're like, no, no, the COO needs to go on first. And the funny thing is, the COO was not like that at all,

but the people surrounding them, how this like- Created this environment, right? And they're like, and she's like, as I look back, I don't know that he had any awareness of that. So that's why I think leaders need to talk about that and show that approachability because all the people around you are trying to be protective and it turns into political bar. Like it truly does start at the top.

And that's what key coaching I give, you know, the CEOs or GMs, whatever their titles are, you know, the head person is that, you know, people lead and follow what you do. They keep perpetuating these things. They will. They are intentionally sanitizing messages to you. Yes. Whether you didn't ask for that, you know, but they are doing that. You have no idea what you have no idea about. You really have no idea, right?

You can't make suggestions in that position. Everything's an edict or a mandate or whatever. Right. I mean, so you really have to be careful with them. Woo. I know in that very toxic place that I worked at, I used to really put bugs into the CEO's ear. Not literal bugs. We're not talking about Lee in a car wash.

Or a tongue in the ear. Right. She had to have everything be her idea. Oh, yes. She had to be brilliant. I learned that pretty quick. I knew that I could influence her. There's politics right there. It sounds really shitty, but I'd be like, oh, remember-

I wonder if- Yeah. You remember when you suggested- I would. I would do it to her all the time. Hey, remember when you said to look at our nurses rates? I did. And it looks like we need to bump everyone to this to be competitive in the market.

I know shit, it worked every time. Like you were spot on with that. She was like, I did. And then she looks like the hero. I don't care. I don't need the glory. But it's sad that that's what I had to do almost to, one, to take care of my employees, but two, to survive. Absolutely.

Using those soft skills. Look at you, your superpowers. Oh gosh. Well, don't we love corporate politics? I'm exhausted. I don't know about you all, but now transitioning to questions and comments, because I do know that we have a hard stop. Jamie's got somewhere to be, of course. Ashley and I will probably hang over and just shoot the ship for a little bit.

We'll hang over and get hung over. Yeah. I know. Exactly. Exactly. But any questions or comments? I have a question. Yes. Have you all ever heard the term hairy arms? As an adage? Yeah, like, no, no. So I had heard this once, and this was the idea of there was an ad agency and they would

design advertisements. And they had this client, there's a difficult client, but they realized that this client, their thing that this one person really hated was hair on male models' arms. And so over time they realized, they're like, we could kind of do whatever we want, but the client would be like, oh God, get the hair off the arms. And so it was this idea that so they would be like making advertising like they want it and they would make sure that the male models had hair. And the client would be like, oh God, get rid of the hair.

Like it's fine, but that distracts them because also rarely do people want to give it a yes. They always want something that they want. And so in the legal context, you'd be like, put something in a contract that like if someone accepts like fantastic, but ideally it'd be so egregious that they'd be like, oh, we're not going to accept that. And then we can accept that move on. And so in the corporate sense, it's like something that like you say, if you have some, if you have a project or idea or something, there was something just out of what totally Hairy arms. Every time I've brought this up, I think I heard on some other podcast years ago, and if I remember

it, I'll put it in the show notes to give some attribution. But it was, yeah. So every time I've asked people, do you know what hairy arms are? And no one ever knows, but they always have that. Now I do. And I'm going to use the hairy arms. Use the hairy arms. So yes, it's very strategic. Use the hairy arms. Exactly. Put the ugly pig out. Yeah. But yeah, put that lipstick on the pig and then wipe it off and then just have a feast. I actually have a comment and a question. I'll ask my question first. So Ashley, you brought up the order that you copy people in an email. So I want to know, cause like I do a lot of micro-feminisms

sometimes when I'm like in the workplace. So like when I'm writing an email, I'll put the women first or like when I'm speaking in front of like a classroom, I'll introduce a woman first or I will speak to the women first. I didn't even realize I was doing it until I saw a TikTok on it. I'm like, oh my God, I totally do. Little micro-feminism. Do y'all do anything like that? I do. I'm macro-feminism in the office. I was really consciously doing that, especially in organizations, because where I began was somewhere that was very, they would say, male and stale. That's what they would call themselves.

So, just a lot of older men, the workforce, predominantly male. And so, very intentionally, I would do that, right? Because I feel like language is power, and that language is what moves culture. So that's how we transform. And so, I was doing that very intentionally very early in my career, you know, like, you know, putting Sheila first and then Bob, you know, to just try and make a more, I guess, safer workplace, more inclusive workplace for all. Yeah. So I never heard it called that. And that's funny that you've seen TikToks on that people doing that, you know, but I even do it on my pages because

I don't think a lot of my meme pages are faceless. You might know me if you watch my stories, but my pages are faceless. And so most people just think it's a dude running my pages. Of course, they make the assumption. And so, yeah. Okay, dude. I actually post more female content creators and more females than anything else. And I do that on purpose. I

also do a lot of people of color on purpose because I want to provide them a platform of, you know, millions of followers. But yeah, I mean, I think that's, I don't know, it's just something I've always like done almost subconsciously. And then, and when I saw the TikTok, also, if you ever DM me and call me, dude, bro, I'm going to say I'm a chick. And I always do because I make sure that there's a funny ass chick running this page. And then my, I just, I'll real quick. I know I don't, I'm hard stop, but I really just want to say, fuck you to, um, no, that literally made me ill. And I had to take a month for myself before I looked for another job after I quit because mentally I was in,

I was ruined. I still have PTSD and I know that they listen to the pod cause I've heard they like to stop my shit. So fuck you. I hope you enjoy the pod. Right. Oh gosh. Well, I don't know. I'm kind of fuck y'all now, you know, so yeah, fuck all my previous places too that didn't

deserve me. You know, like you gave me so much trauma, you know? Absolutely. They did not deserve you. No. They did not deserve you. I mean, for an organization like that to chew you up and spit you out, you know, bullshit. For real, bullshit.

Gosh, like I said, I got a little dizzy there. I got all fired up for you, you know? So what is my question and comment? I think I have more of a comment today, maybe a quick story, but you know, I've had people ask me, well, how do you, you know, define politics or how do you know an organization is very political and all of this? And, and for me, one of the glaring things beyond like, you know, lack of civility and your own feeling that I can't get anything done, I can't be productive because I'm so worried about how everyone else feels.

To me, that's a huge indication of politics. But another one that we haven't discussed today is the gossip mills, right? And that weaponization of gossip. And you always see that, you know, with your peers. I think that that is, you know, just normal. As we talked before, I shared before about information being power and people needing that, you know, to do their jobs and, you know, so you always hear a little something like this. Hopefully it's not ugly, right? People making fun of people and all of this and meaning it, you know, a little

cheeky, okay, fine. But when I see the C-suite doing that, and I've worked in places where the C-suite, oh my gosh, the CHR-RO is the biggest shit talker on the face of the planet. Just know that when you walk out of that meeting with that bitch, she is doing the same thing. She's saying the same shit about you. Nod. Do not play along with that shit. That's what I'd have to do. Just sit there. Oh, okay the same shit about you. Yup. Nod. Do not play along with that shit. That's what I'd have to do.

Just sit there. Oh, okay. You're crazy. Okay. Yeah. You're a bitch. Okay, great. And now you're about to go and talk to my peer and talk shit about me.

Yup. Yup. Just know that. And just know that they will use, they're trying to get things out of you and they will use that. So she would probably want to use that as kindling her fodder in the next conversation with my beer. Well, Lee said XYZ.

Oh, bitch, what did you say? Never play into that. Very rare would I even agree. I'm just listening. Yeah, thank you for sharing. Like, okay, just listening. Great. But for me, that is a big one in political organizations. My God, it's just

constantly backstabbing and stickets and all of this. And it's just that gossip. But when it comes from the C-suite, it's heartbreaking because you just know you're led by a bunch of fucking insecure idiots. So previous workplaces. Yeah. It's also like, it's really not that serious, guys. We are not, we are literally not saving lives. But to some people, that's all they have. So that's actually what that showed to me. Look how empty. Look how pathetic. Look how sad just sitting at home with no family, no friends.

You've isolated yourself. You live for the dollar. Thank you, Full Circle. I love that. And on that note, we'll wrap up today. Thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate you all very, very much.