HR BESTIES - Establishing (and Keeping!) Healthy Boundaries

Episode Date: September 11, 2024

Today’s agenda:  Guttural growling in the workplace Cringe corporate speak: above my pay grade Hot topic: Creating and keeping boundaries What do healthy boundaries look like? We teach people how to treat us Leading with action Sticking to our boundaries Questions/Comments  Your To-Do List: Grab merch, submit Questions & Comments, and make sure that you’re the first to know about our In-Person Meetings (events!) at https://www.hrbesties.com. Follow your Besties across the socials and check out our resumes here: https://www.hrbesties.com/about.  We look forward to seeing you in our next meeting - don’t worry, we’ll have a hard stop! Yours in Business + Bullsh*t,  Leigh, Jamie & Ashley Follow Bestie Leigh! https://www.tiktok.com/@hrmanifesto https://www.instagram.com/hrmanifesto https://www.hrmanifesto.com Follow Bestie Ashley! https://www.tiktok.com/@managermethod  https://www.instagram.com/managermethod https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyherd/ https://managermethod.com Follow Bestie Jamie! https://www.millennialmisery.com/ Humorous Resources: Instagram • YouTube • Threads • Facebook • X Millennial Misery: Instagram • Threads • Facebook • X Horrendous HR: Instagram • Threads • Facebook Tune in to “HR Besties,” a business, work and management podcast hosted by Leigh Elena Henderson (HRManifesto), Ashley Herd (ManagerMethod) and Jamie Jackson (Humorous_Resources), where we navigate the labyrinth of corporate culture, from cringe corporate speak to toxic leadership. Whether you’re in Human Resources or not, corporate or small business, we offer sneak peeks into surviving work, hiring strategies, and making the employee experience better for all. Tune in for real talk on employee engagement, green flags in the workplace, and how to turn red flags into real change. Don't miss our chats about leadership, career coaching, and takes from work travel and watercooler gossip. Get new episodes every Wednesday and Friday, follow us on socials for the latest updates, and join us at our virtual happy hours to share your HR stories. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Have you ever growled at someone at work? I can't say that I have. Probably in my head. Outside of work either. Well, I've done both. Inside work and outside work. Can we hear your growl? Well, this one was. It was like that. That's kind of grunty. But it's good. Yeah, it was it was it was a growl.

But oh, gosh, one day I was in a meeting with my manager and we're on a phone call with people wherever, probably corporate. And he growled. He got corporate. And he growled. He got so upset, he growled. Right? And I was taking a back. He was like, rrrrr, rrrrr, like that. He did some noise like that, which stopped the people on the other end, like in their tracks, right? Because you have a human being growling at you in corporate. And so we get off the phone and you know, I'm kind of like, what the hell was that?

You know, like that was interesting. And he was like, well, that's one of the things that I do. I growl sometimes or just grunt to show that, you know, I'm, I'm upset or I'm exasperated or whatever. And it just kind of shocks the room and it kind of shakes things up a bit. And that was like his advice on like handling conflict. Oh my god. He's like, I'm just gonna freaking growl and let this shit work out. You know what I mean? But, you know, he wasn't wrong. I mean, people were like, holy shit, like, I don't want to be growled at. Like, that's crazy. Like, he's so upset. What's he going to do next? He's growling. And then what is he going to slash me with his paw or something? You know, so I was like, okay, well, that's some interesting advice

on leadership. So later that day, no shit, I go into a meeting and for like, maybe it was the second or third time, the senior executive throws me under the bus. And I am so upset. I'm dying inside, and I'm cutting him with daggers. And I call him out because you're not going to throw me under the fucking bus with the head cheese here, you know? And it just really upset me. And I was like, that's not how that happened so-and-so. Like, not at all. Like, just very corporate, like professional. So that head leader walks out, right? The meeting's over. And all that remains, right, is just a couple of us that work intimately together. And the bus thrower under her starts turning to me.

And I wasn't in the mood. And I knew it was going to be disingenuous. I stand up, and I walk past him, and I go, grrr, grrr, and I growl right behind him. And he was like, Oh, my God. He's like, Oh, my God. I was like, Oh, he like clutched his pearls and shit. I was like, Oh, my God.

Like, you know, like, literally, I took the growl advice the same day. And I thought that was like the stupidest. I mean, because it's really just he was being funny when he gave me the advice. Like he wasn't he was serious, but not obviously, you know, he was just, you know, pissed off and didn't want to cuss somebody out, so he just growls. I used it that afternoon and it worked. It really did work. I will use that today.

Shut it down. He knew I was pissed. He later apologized. He never threw me under the bus again. I never trusted him again because I couldn't, OBS. But yeah, just a little, right there. Like it's gonna keep you employed. You know what I'm saying?

Like what I wanted to say was beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. I mean, I was that hot, right? And so I will do anything to try and stay employed like in that moment. Because man, nothing like, you just feel so horrific when someone throws you under the bus. It's so, like you saboteur, you traitor, you know, like you just want to have, you know.

So instead I was just like, grrr, like that. And so, I mean, people could have thought I was just clearing my throat, you know. But another colleague of mine saw me and she's like, oh my God, she was dying laughing lately, like, oh wow, like you really, you growled. I was like, well, I took a play out of, you know, and she's like, I know, I've heard him growl too. Now the whole workplace is barbaric. Everyone's just growling at each other, you know?

I will be trying that. Yeah, I highly recommend it. So, yeah, if you need to pull out a growl. Jamie, what's your growl? Let me clear my throat. Rawr! Whoa! That was pretty scary.

I don't know if I'd go that hard. That was Yeti. I don't know if I could go that hard, you know? Like, it'd have to be like, because then HR would get the complaint, right? Jamie growled at me. Jamie barked. She didn't bark. I didn't know if I could go that hard, you know, like it'd be, it'd have to be like, cause then HR would get the complaint, right? Jamie growled at me. Jamie barked. She didn't bark.

I didn't bark. I growled. Thank you. I sounded like a yeti. Thank you. Exactly. What's yours Ashley? Honestly, like I've never done this before.

And so I'm worried that's going to be like me. Like I have. Beep beep meep. Um. No. What the? No. Okay.

Let me try again. Okay. Let me try again. That was like a car. It's got to be guttural. That's good. Oh, wow. Okay. That was a possum. No, I'm like my face. So Ashley can't growl. You can't growl, girl. I don't know. I realize.

You're going to work on that. You should practice growl, girl. I don't know. I realize I was like, you're gonna work on that. You should practice that later because the stress relief will be the... Oh, that's good. That was better. And you had some shoulder action there too. I mean, you know, doesn't that feel good though? Not really, honestly, because I felt like it was half-assed as I went through it. And as we know, I like to fool ass things. And so I do. Now I'm in powered practice. Well, that was one of my questions to you is did you have to practice beforehand, but it sounded very natural. You're angry.

Ashley, your husband's going to come up there and be like, are you okay? Totally. Oh, that's right. Oh my God. Yeah, but just give a little, you know, it was better than me saying, fuck you, you traitorous bitch. Oh my gosh. You know, like, oh, you busts are under in bitch. Oh, so anyways, highly recommend just a little growl cause it could be played off as allergies, you know, but you got to get that out sometimes, you know? Have y'all seen the TikToks of women getting, um, like harassed by a guy and they say to bark at

them? Oh, but basically same. This should be the new trend, growl at them. That is great. Yeah, growl at your coworkers when they- Like, hey girl, hey girl, hey, you got a boyfriend, hey. That's a chihuahua. Oh, gosh. Well, that's some hot gas, isn't it, for today? That's a Chihuahua.

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$49 annual fee applies. See Home Club for details. Well, let's go ahead and kick off this meeting, shall we? Well, let's go ahead and kick off this meeting, shall we? Let's see what is first on our agenda. It's always our cringe corporate speak. God, we love it. But Jamie is going to bring that to us today. And then we are going to dive into our hot topic of this meeting, and that is all things establishing healthy boundaries, and perhaps even keeping healthy

boundaries, maybe some best practices. That's always, that's always nice. And then of course, for usual questions and comments for the end. Jamie, what do you got for us? So today's Cringe Corporate Speak is above my pay grade. And I know I am guilty of using this. And I've used it in the sense that HR probably shouldn't, to be completely honest, but it's when someone comes into my office and they're complaining over something maybe I don't have control over. And I'm like, I'm sorry, that's above my pay grade. Or maybe I'm in a meeting that I probably didn't need to be invited to. And, you like, I'm sorry, that's above my pay grade. Or maybe I'm in a meeting that I probably

didn't need to be invited to. And people are trying to clue me in and ask me questions that I can't answer. And I'm like, that's above my pay grade. Pay me more. Maybe I can answer it. Hey! I don't say this one.

Not for any reason. I just don't think it's, you know, it hasn't been in a culture I've been in. You know? Trying to think if I've said it. I mean, I've definitely heard it. It's kind of like a glorified version of it is what it is, where it's, you know, pointing to some abstract thing. And it can be on way to be relatable to somebody else of like, I can't, yeah, it's about my pay grade, I can't decide that. And it can help and humanize you a bit. So I do think

in AHR in particular, but from a manager, if like your manager is saying that's saying like, well, that's above my pay grade, then I think the natural follow-up question is then, okay, please allow me to go speak to the next pay grade person because I need an answer to this and that is not going to solve it. So that's, I think if you're a manager saying this to your direct report, then you to solve it. So that's, I think if you're a manager saying this to your direct report, then you are. Yeah, don't do that. Yeah, and sometimes I think a better way to say it is,

in that instance, is to say, whether you say more corporate speak of like there's stakeholders involved, blah, blah, blah, or you talk like a more real person and say, I can't make that decision on my own, but what I can do is talk to XYZ. Or if you know what the answer is going to be and saying, this is it, we can talk through and be clear with someone. So owning the aspects that you can. Yeah. I've always used it in the cheeky sense. Like I remember one time, um,

we did not have vending machines in the office and we did not have, we did not provide any snacks. And this is pre pandemic. So this is, you were, you were in the office five days a week. And, um, I remember someone complaining, well, we should really get vending machines or snacks, you know, like complaining. And I'm like, that's above my pay grade. Go talk to my boss. She's not going to give us the budget for snacks. Yeah. See, I do take it as can't help you. Yeah. Like go fuck yourself. It is like a good cheeky response that I've definitely used it in that sense. Oh gosh. I bet it has its roots like military.

It's a good, it's a good call out. I'm gonna look at it. I mean, like so many of our vernacular, you know. It's all like intimate relations or military tend to be the corporate. Oh, you're right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's supposedly, which is fine,

originated in the American military in the 1960s as a term denoting a decision that required a higher authority. And by higher authority you mean like the director, not God, but an officer. Can I get some vending machines? Go to God. Go to God and ask. Go to the CEO and ask. Pray for your vending machines. They were really, now that I think back of it, they were so weird about not allowing us to have vending machines. Or provide snacks to employees. Now that I'm thinking about it, it's really weird.

They were weird or just cheap. I remember having a whole ass snack drawer. Your hidden snacks. Well, for my own. I shared. Exactly. And then to give them to me. Because, yeah.

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establishing and keeping healthy boundaries. What do healthy boundaries mean to you all? I think for me, I've had to learn what my personal boundaries are over time. And I think that's one thing that can help in your career quilt, figuring out what are the things that you specifically need. And I think a lot of us have seasons in our careers where there may be times where, for me, my kids were little and I really needed, that's when I moved to take a job where I was working only eight to five and my boss

said affirmatively, you are not expected to work on the weekends and not expected to work at nights. Sometimes people will say there's no such thing as work-life balance. I absolutely had work-life balance. I did not think about work outside of work unless I thought about it in a positive way with colleagues. That was a very affirmative boundary and balance. I had that because

my coworker, my coworker had established that and she had been having at that time kids. And I think that can be something that really changes what people's boundaries are. But even people, whatever you have, whatever your family, your personal life looks like, sometimes you go through a period and you're like, I need more of that separation. And so for me, and it's been harder as I have my own business because you have a lot more hats, but having some of those boundaries, like when I shut my computer and I don't look at things. And so I've needed to have very physical and rigid boundaries for my life in part because I had that and it had a profound impact on who I was at work, outside of work, and who I was to my friends and family.

Yeah. Healthy boundaries for me are just those lines that you draw to protect you, your values, your priorities, what means the most to you. And I can remember a time when I had no boundaries. And then, of course, continually and continuously, I was exploited or trampled on or disrespected at work. And then over time, right, they started to evolve and they started to form. And now I have a shit ton of boundaries. And so, you so, it's funny if you're sitting there and you're like, well, gosh, I don't even have any healthy boundaries established. Perhaps you haven't had trampled on boundaries

or you haven't, you know what I mean? Maybe that's a, you didn't have to establish them. It almost feels like we establish these out of necessity a lot of times, because it's one of those areas we don't proactively think about, you know what I mean? We just start doing and then, you know, we start creating these things.

But for me, you know, creating healthy boundaries was almost like a life or death sort of situation. You know, you could really, really lose yourself and work, right? And you can lose the things you love, you know? And so you have to, you know, really focus on self-care, your priorities, what matters to you, and make that clear, right?

So that others can respect those lines too. And not only that, it's like, there's so many different boundaries too, right? So it's physical, emotional, mental, professional boundaries that work can kind of creep in on. And I think, especially when I was early on in my career, I didn't understand that I needed to have those. I was new in the workforce and it really wasn't until I was, like you said, exploited. And you don't receive additional pay or praise

or anything necessarily for that, right? So what are those healthy boundaries look like for me now than they did maybe 20 years ago? Well, you know, I mean, they're different things, right? I mean, I think especially with the increased post pandemic work life, we have our computers with us, right? Like we might be working from home, we might be remote, but we're taking our laptops everywhere. Even 20 years ago, I didn't have that capability per se, at least in my first job. So that wasn't even a thing. Or even phones. Like now I have, you know, my Teams and my Outlook on my phone. So someone could message me at seven o'clock at night and I'm going to see it and I'm probably going to respond. So it's, it's even myself

having to recondition my brain and be like, and I know I've said this in an episode recently, but in HR, there's not emergencies. So can this wait till the morning? I always do try to think about it in the perspective to being in HR as the employee, they might be worrying about something. So, you know, open enrollment, for instance, let's say you have a question about benefits and you happen to be sitting down right now with your spouse and it's seven o'clock at night and you need an answer or you'd like an answer. I'm going to respond to you. That's a boundary that I probably need to stake, but I don't, I have not. Another boundary that I created a couple years ago is I do not provide my personal cell phone

number. I asked the company to either provide me with a cell phone, which I'd prefer not to have, or just have a WebEx or phone number, because I do not give my personal cell phone out, because I have been harassed by employees that were left terminated. So that's a boundary for me. But I'm not very good with boundaries because I, like Ashley, have that yes face. And I do want to help you. And I want to go out of my way to help you, even if it's an inconvenience for me. And I know this pisses my husband off.

But I always try to think about it in the mindset of the employee asking me the question or the leader needing this information. Can it wait till the morning? Question mark. The overarching that you talk about, Jamie, is that you care. And that's a really important characteristic of HR across the board, no matter what your role is, is to care and care about the people. But figuring out what your boundaries look like, and to your point, Jamie, I think a lot of people go throughout their careers

and they don't realize it or things happen, they're certainly not thinking in terms. And so we have a newsletter with the podcast. Every Wednesday we put out a newsletter talking about it. We also include discussion guide questions for your team. One thing that I'll include in this week's newsletter, we'll include, it's our collective newsletter, that we'll include is questions to ask yourself to think about boundaries if you have never thought about them.

Some of those, to your point, Jamie, are different ones about working time, ability, you know, is someone your boss calling you during dinner constantly, or how people speak with you and communicate and how you speak with others. And so really just some questions to think about those boundaries because if you haven't, and I think a lot of people get this where they're like, we've used the analogy of a frog boiling water, but like you turn it up a degree, a degree, and all of a sudden you're like, I can't do this no matter what your role is. Being able to ideally go to your boss and say, I've had an epiphany or a feeling.

I feel like I have given up a lot of aspects of myself. Sometimes it's talking to your boss, meeting them where they are, saying, I'm not able to perform as well as I would because there's ways that I've been working that I have to change that I think will actually help me be a better employee. I want to have a long-term career here and actually be able to recharge outside of work. If you phrase things in those ways, constantly say, your job as an employee should not be to do your manager's job for them, but people don't always realize the stress or feelings in your head until you tell them.

And so if you can tell them in a way that they hear, it's really hard as a manager to be like, no. If someone's telling you, I can perform better and I wanna live my life better outside of work, here are some of my ideas and can we talk about these? It's a lot harder for them to say no than if you just go to your boss and say, I'm Berta, this isn't working. Okay, well, you're going to probably have the same conversation,

but if you can take some of those steps and show them and thread that needle. And so we do encourage everyone to think about what those boundaries are for you. Because, you know, some people, your boundary is, is those after hours communications, you probably hear it in my voice. That's a huge one for me. And so articulating what that looks like and how you can get your job done within those. Yeah, I mean, I think it's definitely the case, at work and in life that we are constantly teaching people how to treat us.

And so, what Ashley is referencing really about communication, that is very key for me. So whenever I start a new job, this is one of my best practices, whenever I start a new job and I'm having my get to knows, my intro meetings, my one on ones with all my leaders that I'm supporting, my team, whatever, I always ask, how do you appreciate being communicated to? Because I want to respect that. And I give them the opportunity to share with me. A lot of times they're taken aback. But I give them the opportunity first to share with me, oh gosh, well, I hate texts, I love email, I like Raven,

send something by pigeon, Carrie, or whatever. Like, whatever it is, right? Like, tell me about pigeon, carry, or whatever. Whatever it is, right? Tell me about that, because that is probably 75% of boundaries. It's like with communications in some sense, right? Which then, of course, opens the floor for me to share. I'm showing such interest in them, and they look like such jerks if they weren't like,

well, what about you, right? If they don't, I say, well, now let me share with you how I like to be communicated to, right? And these are my boundaries. So just being open about those things is very important. You know, as hard as it is, you know, Jamie gives a great example of not responding after hours. I remember joining an organization where they did not work after four. And of course, I'd come from a place that was very, very global and on 24-7. I had teams everywhere, China, you name it, just other side of the world sort of thing. So you kind of have to be responsive or take late meetings. And my propensity, of course, was to do email at nine or, you know, do something late, right, or when I was used to working. But it's important that you meet an organization where it is and honor that culture too that

the organization has. And so I stopped immediately. I would not respond. I wouldn't do emails late. They weren't sending me emails late, but I wasn't sending my to-dos or actions out late either. I just respected that working time and that boundary that so many had set within the organization.

And so it's one thing to have boundaries and want them respected, but you kind of have to do the same thing as well. And I remember we had somebody new start in that organization, and they sent me an email at 8.00 the next day. They're like, where the hell were you? And I was like, I was doing other priorities, and that's a boundary of mine.

If something's not urgent, which Jamie's right, I mean, 99% of what we do is not, at least in this field, then we wait till the next day and just have that kind of candid conversation, right? I have this boundary and I do it for you too, employee. I want you to be able to have your priorities. So by me respecting mine and you seeing that, you know it's safe and you're free to do the same thing. And that's why I'm like, Jamie, reconsider responding late because it's the actions that are really showing so much

that people feel a little safer themselves to prioritize what they need to. Yeah, and I think me as a leader, I'm very conscientious of it, right? And I'm thoughtful about it. So if I'm sending, if I'm on, like last night I was on trying to get a report to work and spit out what I needed it to spit out and I was on till 730 last night. And if I'm sending emails though to my team, I'm going to delay send them. They're not going to get them till 8 AM the next morning. Cause I don't want, though my bubble might show green or you know, I don't want you to know that I was on till

730. I want to be mindful that you might be sitting on the couch enjoying your Netflix bin and then bing, your boss is emailing you at 730 at night about something that isn't important. I remember one job, this was pre pandemic too, and she would get up every morning around two or three in the morning and fire off emails. Fire them. And so I usually wouldn't see them till I got in the next day around seven. But there would be like 10 emails from her, just like almost like verbal processing, but

shooting emails out. And I remember how much it used to stress me when I'd, you know, queue up my computer and see all these emails from her at two or three in the morning. And so, and the funny part is she wouldn't actually walk in the office till like 10 every day. So like, I felt like I had to respond to these emails immediately when I walked in the door at seven, like start responding. And that was always just so, it was, it like really kicked in my anxiety. So I think that's why I now am very

conscientious. I also, one thing that I do too is working in different organizations where, you know, you might be spread across the country or globally, I add as many time zones as I can to my Outlook calendar just to be mindful of what time it might be in other areas. Now, obviously, sometimes you can't capture if it was a lot of people on an email chain, but if you know one of your team members is in California and they're three hours behind you, being mindful of not only scheduling meetings, but also sending emails. And one thing too, I do, this is not urgent. Sending this to you now, this is not urgent. Those are good. I didn't even think about the time zone thing and now it looks like that's next level. Well, and I think also with time zones is thinking about the audience that you're speaking

to and speaking to their time zone, as opposed to one being clear about the time zone, because that happens constantly about saying this and you know, you're assuming everyone is. And when you have people in a variety of time zones, like, okay, you may have to pick a central one, whether it's central time or otherwise. But like, so Lee and Jamie, so we like, we set things up and record. I'm in Eastern time, they're both in Central time. So I generally will send things based in CT and say, blah, blah, blah, CT. Sometimes we'll click, we have those hilarious mix-ups that happen, but I try to speak to their time zone. And I think especially when you are a senior leader is one recognizing if you speak to a junior person's

time zone, that sends some real signals about your thought for that person that count a lot more than you think, but also that aspect of you reaching out to colleagues on the weekend. And when it's not urgent, which often it's not, you are totally getting in their head space. Yeah, yeah. And you may not realize it in people,

I make videos on this and I actually think this is probably the most divisive subject, but it's people's choice whether to look at it or not. And it's not people, like, you know, Jamie has a habit of looking at things. And if you're a manager, teaching your team the practices, and people, oh, that's condescending, hell to the no. I would rather have a manager tell me,

not only are you not expect, I've had, when I've had a manager, you're not expected to work after hours. And it's fine if you want to... Whatever you want to do, if you want to take email off your phone. I have... Like that time, they had my personal cell phones. It's something where a true emergency or like this, I would reach out to you.

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I remember having one saying just kind of what you just said, Ashley. He was like, well, everyone's, they're all big boys and girls. We're all big boys and girls. We can all figure this out and do whatever. I remember saying something cheeky back, like you're not one of the boys or the girls, like you're the leader, okay? Like, you know, so you have to really take care

and share those expectations and be transparent and be communicative and stop yourself from selfishly checking off your to-do list. Yeah, that's true. At the sake of the safety or the experience of your team, and stop yourself from selfishly checking off your to-do list. Yeah. You know? At the sake of the safety or the experience of your team, right? Oh, man, I could just preach forever on that one. That one pisses me off. Servant leadership.

Nah. Yeah, like, sorry, this is above my paid grade. Oh, there you go. There we go. All right. Now, how do you keep healthy boundaries? Any quick best practices? A huge part is in leadership of echoing these and talking about these and not have this

been a one and done thing. When people start talking about them, but periodically in team meetings, bringing up and saying, how do we, like, do you have things creep up or habits that you establish and then you walk back from them? How can you keep those up? I think also establishing some of those in the interview process. So for instance, for me, I don't want to be going to an office anymore. And so if the world's hybrid, like I'm giving you two days max fuckers. So some, you know, maybe establishing some of those

just, yeah, from the jump so they know what to expect. Look, I've worked in 24 seven industries before and it is different, but that still does not mean that I'm a 24 seven employee. So making sure that's clear. I know shit happens after hours. I know that, you know, but truthfully, do you need me or can this way? I think job postings often can be longer to have those details and be very clear

so people can self-select at the get-go. And certain things like to Jamie, like there's generally not emergencies in HR. Some of that exception might be if there's like a factory environment or a warehouse and people, there's coverage and people like, oh, HR person is expected to be on call, you know, on call once a week or something like that. Putting that in the to be on call, you know, on call once a week

or something like that, putting that in the job description and saying, you know, for the support and safety of our team members and explaining what that is and the why and let people choose whether to apply for your role. But knowing that information before you've they've moved things around and called out sick to get on that screening call. I love that, Jamie. Yeah, that is good. I love that, Jamie. Yeah, that is good. I love that too. For me, how do you keep healthy boundaries

by your choice and decision? So you don't lose your healthy boundaries. You give them away. So no one can take them from you. So if you're in an organization that doesn't respect them, find a new organization, because there's one out there that will respect them. All right. Thank you so much for that riveting discussion here on this meeting. What a hot topic. Sizzle. I don't know why I did that.

Sound effects. It's a sound effects episode. Any questions or comments? I have one I was thinking because some of what I was thinking is sometimes, like language is powerful, and sometimes the word boundaries. Like if you're coming into an organization, you're like, I'll tell you what my boundaries are. There is, I think, a negative connotation to that. And that means it kind of puts someone on their heels.

And so do you all have another word that you'd ever recommend to use instead of boundaries that gets to the same point, but sounds a bit more collegial. Yeah, I mean, to that point, I don't think I've ever said, these are my boundaries. Instead, kind of as I shared, I'm like, here's how I like being communicated to. Right, exactly. So I talk about the concepts of what the boundaries are. Here's what I prioritize outside of work.

Here's what I do. you know what I mean? So, but I don't know that I have a replacement word for boundaries. I just don't even think I say it like that explicitly, to be honest. I'm like, here's my list of shit. Here's my laundry list of shit, don't fucking do. Exactly.

Respect that. Like I was thinking, as we were talking, I was thinking, I was trying to think about this. And I was thinking like, right, I probably, I like the way you say it. I was thinking, I was trying to think about this and I was thinking like, right, I mean probably I like the way you say it of like these are the ways that And this is gonna be a lot longer than boundaries. But like these are the ways that I show up best to work These are the ways I'm able to recharge outside of work and still get my job done Well, also if you want to have a short phrase like my personal best practices certain things like that

I love that my work style even like you, you know, you can talk in that sort of... Yeah, it works. It works out. Yeah, I like that. Don't fucking talk to me. Don't look at me. Don't email me. Don't even think about me after work hours. Okay, thanks. People are like, damn, how Jamie? People love that Jamie.

Jamie's people got... I know. Broom. Broom. Broom. Jamie, damn. Hey, hey. That's me.

A whimper. Oh, gosh. Jamie, is that your comment? Any questions or comments? I just want to say don't be afraid to voice your boundaries and use a different word, but don't be afraid because if the company does not accept them, then that's not the company and the fit for you. Very well said. I love that. Not a question, but a comment for me.

And it's really along the same line Jamie has. Having boundaries doesn't mean you're saying no all the time. I mean, and to Ashley's previous point how it's got this negative connotation to it, you're not saying no to anything, you're just saying yes to you. And that is so important because if you are not saying yes to you first and prioritizing you, you can't give anything.

There's nothing left to give to anybody else. So that's why boundaries, practicing self-care, right? Just preserving who you are is so important so that you can give some of that away, which is a gift. Love it, mic drop. That's all I have, mic drop, mic drop. Yes to you, hashtag yes to you. All right besties, you better, if you don't got them yet,

you better establish those healthy boundaries and respect them first so that others can respect them too. All right, bye besties. ["The Best of You"]