HR BESTIES - Favoritism and Nepotism

Episode Date: August 28, 2024

Today’s agenda:  Plan B on the corp card Cringe corporate speak: dry run Hot topic: favoritism and nepotism in the workplace What can favoritism look like? Creating an inclusive culture is key Feeling like the least favorite at work What can be done? Nepotism Questions/Comments  Your To-Do List: Grab merch, submit Questions & Comments, and make sure that you’re the first to know about our In-Person Meetings (events!) at https://www.hrbesties.com. Follow your Besties across the socials and check out our resumes here: https://www.hrbesties.com/about.  We look forward to seeing you in our next meeting - don’t worry, we’ll have a hard stop! Yours in Business + Bullsh*t,  Leigh, Jamie & Ashley Follow Bestie Leigh! https://www.tiktok.com/@hrmanifesto https://www.instagram.com/hrmanifesto https://www.hrmanifesto.com Follow Bestie Ashley! https://www.tiktok.com/@managermethod  https://www.instagram.com/managermethod https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyherd/ https://managermethod.com Follow Bestie Jamie! https://www.millennialmisery.com/ Humorous Resources: Instagram • YouTube • Threads • Facebook • X Millennial Misery: Instagram • Threads • Facebook • X Horrendous HR: Instagram • Threads • Facebook Tune in to “HR Besties,” a business, work and management podcast hosted by Leigh Elena Henderson (HRManifesto), Ashley Herd (ManagerMethod) and Jamie Jackson (Humorous_Resources), where we navigate the labyrinth of corporate culture, from cringe corporate speak to toxic leadership. Whether you’re in Human Resources or not, corporate or small business, we offer sneak peeks into surviving work, hiring strategies, and making the employee experience better for all. Tune in for real talk on employee engagement, green flags in the workplace, and how to turn red flags into real change. Don't miss our chats about leadership, career coaching, and takes from work travel and watercooler gossip. Get new episodes every Wednesday and Friday, follow us on socials for the latest updates, and join us at our virtual happy hours to share your HR stories. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

So in my 21 years, I've seen some crazy shit on expense reports. So let me tell you about the one that was really the most wild. Plan B. Plan B. Like you, oh, the pill, not like you have a plan A, so you're going to plan B. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like this trip, like this trip didn't go as planned, so we're going to do plan B. Yeah. Literally plan B the pill from a Walgreens too.

So I had the- Wait, they wrote that? The Walgreens wrote that? I mean, most of the times people talk about HIPAA and HIPAA doesn't actually apply to most people, but like, did they have the receipts? Oh, questions. Well, okay. So here's the backstory. So obviously I'm not per se

involved in finance, but it came to my desk being HR and this is how usually they come to my desk. So the VP of finance had gotten one of a receipt from one of our recent sales manager strips and it was a Walgreens receipt and it was kind of ripped. So he requested another receipt or a better receipt. And of course the guy's like, I'm sorry, I don't have it. That's all I had, blah, blah, blah, you know, all these excuses. And so it was actually quite a lot of money for a Walgreens. And if you know, plan B, because I Googled it just a minute ago, because I didn't know how much it is, it's only $50. So that wasn't even the concern yet, right?

We're not even concerned with what we need to know what is on and what could possibly be personal expenses. So long story short, the VP of Finance goes around and around with the sales manager until finally he's able to produce the whole receipt. And on that whole receipt was a lot of things that like beer purchases, things that add a Walgreens to like anyway, random things, but on it is a Plan B pill. Now I don't remember, you know, this didn't happen that long ago too. I don't remember exactly what it said on the, I don't think it said Plant B on the Walgreens receipt. I'm not sure what it said. It's like the long medical name.

It was something enough that the VP of Finance approached me and was like, we have an issue. The sales manager rang up, I think it was close to like $600 at Walgreens. Wait, what? Yes. In, what? Yes. In one trip? And so I get the receipt, which is, you know, this person actually is remote. So it was like two halves of a ripped receipt. And like the first half is like normal stuff.

You would like band-aids and I mean, yeah. But then the bottom half is where there's like so much stuff. And I'm like, how did you spend $600? But anyway, so the Plan B is on there. And VP is the finance. This guy ran this on corporate card. Wait, this guy? The sales manager was a guy who bought the Plan B. Count it. Okay.

While on travel? While on travel in Florida. And did you say sales manager's trip? Because all of a sudden things are making a little... Oh, huh....sales. in Florida. And did you say sales managers trip? Because all of a sudden things are making a little uh-huh. There was a couple sales manager. It was a retreat. Did they need a retreat? Absolutely not. Why was the company paying for a retreat? I'm not sure. But that's a whole nother issue and I don't need to go there. So anyway, I get the sales manager on the phone and I'm asking him questions and you know, he was like, well, we drank on it. That's

why the beer and whatnot is on the receipt. And I'm like, okay. And I was like, well, there was something else on there that, you know, why, why this ended up on my desk. So I'm just kind of, you know, just wanted to, he said, well, yeah, I had to buy that because it happened while I was at work, referring to the plan Plan B because he was on a work trip and he needed to provide the lady the Plan B. So he put it down as a work expense. Look at this. I'm potentially saving you tons of money in future like healthcare and all of this. Future medical claims.

Yes. I paid attention in open enrollment and I saw the difference between the single and- The family and the- What? I mean- So needless to say, we did make him pay back a portion of the Walgreens bill. And it was a good portion because like I said, a lot of it, the bottom half of that receipt

that was conveniently ripped was stuff that wouldn't be covered under a business trip. And also he lost his credit card privileges. I mean, listen, I'm sure people have very differing opinions on Plan B overall, but I think we can all unite under the idea that it generally should not be a reimbursable work expense. No. Wow.

Exactly. But I also love that the finance person is like, let me look at this. Let me look at it. Oh, shoot. Let's have Jamie handle it. Well, yeah, because I think once he got that second half of the receipt, like I said, it was funny how it was ripped. I remember it so well. It was ripped where you could see some of the items on one side, but it kind

of went up where the price part was ripped. He did it intentionally. And the bottom half was the beer. I thought that there was alcohol, but like wine. Maybe in Florida you can buy wine at a Walgreens. I'm not really sure. But the Plan B stuck out like a sore thumb. Well, I mean, also, if you're at the point where you're buying Plan B, then you're buying what, more alcohol? Right? Like, needless to say, a lot of the sales managers had to, that were also on that trip, had to have a refresher about expenses.

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Visit amex.ca slash business platinum. Well, we've got a plan A today and that's our meeting. We are going to go ahead and shift gears into that. But first, I would like to run through the agenda. All right. So, Cringe Corporate Speak today is brought to us by Ashley. Thank you so much for picking that up. And then we're moving into our meeting. And the hot topic today is all things favoritism. So, we'll throw nepotism in there as well. But we get a lot of besties reaching out to us on how the hell do I survive a workplace, a culture, a boss who plays favorites, right?

So we'll go into some best practices there, what to do if you are the favorite, what to do if you're not the favorite, uh-oh. And then of course we'll leave time at the end for questions and comments. So Ashley, cringe corporate speak, what do you got today? My cringe corporate speak I have is dry run. And what I mean by this, if you haven't heard it, this is if you're doing a presentation or an event and you run through everything with all the players

and get things ready to go, and they call it a dry run. But my question is, that's the flip of the corporate cringe speak, is if a dry run is a dry run, is the real thing a wet run? Yes, right. Because there has to be a different type of run, right, if there's a dry one. It is. And I laugh because I was working on a dry run with an HR Besties listener and in his team, because I'm doing some lunch and learns for their team, and it had dry

run and I was chuckling and texted the girls. I was like, you know, it's kind of corporate good corporate grinch speak, it's dry run. And we're like, yeah. And in my mind, I was like, yeah, the where's the wet come in? I don't know. Maybe it's sweaty. Oh, so now I'm like, what are the origins of that? So I looked it up. It's it is a theater term where it's this idea of dry meaning that you don't have like, you don't have all of the elements like the audience. But also again, I'm like, what's what's wet? Like, I don't, that's dangerous. My head went to like dress rehearsal then.

Yeah. Yeah. It's like, yeah. So it's like, it's like a, it started in the, in the theater, but again, it still doesn't solve what the wet run is. So this, this episode is our wet run. We're getting wet here. I'm going to have some coffee. Moving on.

Yeah, I guess we're doing the wet run right now. We are. We are. So that's, there we go. God, I look at that different now. So I appreciate that, you know. Our goal is always to have you then think of of terms at work and be in a meeting and start laughing or texting your work besties or just making this face. When you think about having the wet run at work.

Yeah, well, I will definitely not use dry run ever again. I don't know if I have one out, but just in case. Yeah, so who's having a bunch of wet runs today at work? We wish you the best with all of those wet runs. Don't forget your raincoat and whatever else you need. We'll put them on the Walgreens receipt and we'll see what... Exactly. Jamie, I'll take a look and tell you whether they're proved or not, the umbrella and otherwise.

Oh, man. All right. I've almost said the wet run. All right, that's today's cringe speak, but drive run. Yeah, that really makes you think. Wet run is the driver. I really never thought twice until I did. And now.

And there you go. Now we're thinking three and four times now. Wet run and all that. Oh, gosh. Well, on that note, shifting gears to our meeting today, like I mentioned in the agenda, all things favoritism and nepotism. So let's dive in. Have you all ever been teacher's pet at work?

Have you all ever been the favorite? Not me. No, not Jamie? No, never me. I'm too outspoken to be the favorite. I know Ashley has been the favorite. Ashley, have you been the favorite? Not me. No, not Jamie? No, never me. I'm too outspoken to be the favorite. I know Ashley has been the favorite. Ashley, have you been the favorite? I think probably at some times.

But I tend to hide my true self a little bit at work. I used to probably. But I definitely have had those times where I've had a very special connection. And as I think, especially as I think now, other people that didn't have that connection, then what do you do? Which book get into? What about you, Leigh? Yeah, no, I've been a favor before.

I'm kind of like, what does that look like? You know, I think for me in that role, that was a lot of extra meetings, right? Like a lot more Face time to talk through things, like more acting as the sounding board or chief of staff for the leader, right? Like they, you know, they got so comfortable, they wanted to just like run everything through me first, right? Because they, they just trusted me and, and, you know, I had just a different background and perspective than they did. And so that was like really key. What would Lee do?

Right? You know, so, you know, I was in there in the office a lot, which you would think, okay, well, I get lots of FaceTime with the leader. That's fantastic. But for me, it's it got to the point where I couldn't really do my job. And my job was kind of shifting. So, you know, I had to have conversations, you know, to say, okay, are these new expectations for me? Right? Am I coordinating this now? Or am I doing X now? Because I can't prioritize what I'm actually, what I thought being paid to do.

You know, so in some ways, it was a little annoying. It's not all great being someone's favorite because you can kind of get to that exploitation point where you're just filling all their gaps. But yeah, I was the favorite before. I think once maybe, maybe twice. That sounds actually kind of amazing because I wish people would run shit through me because I see sometimes these executives making decisions and I'm like, are you fucking serious? Can you talk to one of us down here in the middle? I had to use my power for good, right? I would then translate that back to my colleagues and peers because of course I'm pretty self-aware.

So I know they're pissed off, they're curious, they wish they had a piece of that, the manager's time, whatever. I'd have to use that. Okay, he's asking me about this. What do we want to do? Blah, blah, blah. Like, you know, so I had to kind of play both sides, respecting both sides, you know? So that was fun.

That was a job a juggle. It's a very good point of how you use that power because it really is. A lot of times power is the most addictive drug at all in life, but certainly at work. How you use it, is it to benefit just yourself? Is it to benefit others? Is it also the choice to do something about it and point it out? I think that third is where it can be next level. But where you do tend to see it at work, I think in all types of environments, is if

there's a leadership team, the leaders that are favorite. And so then they're able to advocate and get things for their team, and raises, opportunities, the face time, all of that. And you have people on other teams that look and have the pat on the head from their leader. And that's what I think can be a very ineffective boss, is one that wants to fight for you, but doesn't have that relationship. And then, so all of a sudden, you're looking and saying, well, I wish I were on their team, because clearly they're able to get things.

And it ends up then creating real divides between the favorites and the not favorites. No, that's an excellent point right there. You know, and that's one where it's like, gosh, that's where again, the need for leadership training comes in, you know, to where leaders can be more aware and realize amongst themselves, they have to have those conversations and synchronies and, you know, really think about equity and all of this and just perceptions in the workplace. Because I think we've probably as HR leaders, we've probably all had those conversations

maybe multiple times, tons of times to tell one really great leader, hey, chill out. Like really, like just chill a little bit maybe and one really bad leader, hey, you need to warm up. Right? I mean, you know, you all definitely need a sink here because this team of have-nots and this team of have everythings, ah, you know, so that definitely happens. Yeah, and I think not only is it difficult for the person who's being favored, but it's also very difficult for everyone

else who's not, right? So they're looking in and they're like, well, for the person who's being favored, but it's also very difficult for everyone else who's not. Right? So they're looking in and they're like, well, I do just as much work as them, or maybe I do more work than them because unfortunately you're playing chief of staff and you're not able to do your job. I'm running circles around them and why am I not the favorite? Or I do better work or whatever.

And then it comes down to the company culture. Right? or I do better work or whatever. And then it comes down to the company culture, right? And it almost eats away at what's going on in your workplace. And while we've been talking, I've actually been kind of reflecting like, have I been the favorite? And I don't know if I would say I was the favorite, but I definitely was ranking on her totem pole. And it was one of the most toxic places that I worked at. And the CEO often would just come in my office and sit and do the same thing, like run stuff by me and get my opinion on things. For me, because it was so toxic, I would use it as a tool similar like Yuli, as I would

be the voice of the employees. And she was also, I've mentioned her before, she was also one that I had to hint that she made up this idea, even though it might've been my idea or anyone else's. But I had to be like, remember when you said... Because you're so incredible. But it was, you know, thinking back on it, I think I don't, you know, she didn't necessarily treat me different because she really did truly have a favorite. Like her and this one person went out to lunch every single day together.

They would go shopping. They would go get their nails done in the middle of a work day. So I wasn't like that level, but I was definitely like maybe one step below that where I was trusted for that information and to bounce things off of. And I did really truly appreciate that. But like I said, it wasn't in really when I until I got out of that, till I realized just how fucking toxic that place was. And she was almost using her power like on, like that, you know? On one hand, you're having your input taken, considered by the CEO, but then the question is, okay, are you being elevated?

Your title, your compensation elevated to reflect that? Because also then, as you saying, okay, but I know there are other people that were the favorites. And so then they're getting those perks of like the nails, the trips. And so if you think about in the workplace, and I know I've seen it of like leaders that go on vacation with certain people on their teams and they're like, oh, but we're friends outside of work, which is fine. I know we've talked about friendships at work, but you have to be super careful, especially

when you're the leader and how that perception is, or the leader that throws a absolutely monumental birthday bash for one person on their team and then somebody else's team. They don't even pass around a card. I get it that there's leaders that just don't think about it. And so both of y'all talked about this culture. Managers, I've said this, there's no such thing as an organizational culture. And that may not be true. The ultimate leaders do set a tone. But the experience people have

is generally tied 99.997% to their manager and what they create. So if you have something where you feel like you're the favorite, where you look at it, but somebody else on the team is like, what? And truly feels less than. And everybody on the team is like, what?! And truly feels less than. Everybody on the team is like, what the... The work cannot get done, and you will not have personal relationships. So, as a manager, thinking about, am I treating people fairly? Would others look at the team and think, well, you pass by my desk every day on the way in, my cubicle, and you're always stopping at this person's?

And so, some of those are visual you're always stopping at this person's. And so some of those are visual cues that for managers it's really important to think about is having that. And there's also a lot you can gain from that by giving people an opportunity, even if you don't feel like you have the immediate vibe of BFFs like you do with XYZ on your team. Yeah. I mean, that's so true, Ashley, because reflecting on the time I was an extreme favorite, where my job basically

morphed and changed, I felt it was divisive. It erodes trust. Because even though I wasn't trying to be in that position, I wasn't jockeying to be a favorite, or I wasn't trying to have control or power or whatever, it came to me. And then you're tied to them. And then people just see this. They're making up their own stories, they're filling in the blanks, they're creating narratives. But for me, actually, the attention added more work and I did not appreciate it because like I said, I'd have to go and really work double time on building relationships with my peers and try to smooth things out and then try to make it like, okay, what do

we want to do? And then I'll take it to him for approval or whatever. I had to just really play the middle a lot harder and that was tough. I mean, to your point, I wasn't paid for all of that. It was just like, you know, creating office politics and drums for no reason. Just because, you know, someone perhaps was insecure and liked my advice. I don't know, you know? So it's... Oh. No, you know, so it's... With active noise cancelling enabled, soft microfiber cushions engineered for comfort, and a range of colors and finishes.

Dyson On Track. Headphones remastered. Buy from DysonCanada.ca. With ANC on, performance may vary based on environmental conditions and usage. Accessories sold separately. Now, how about the opposite though? Have you ever not been the favorite? Other people were the favorites, and maybe you're the least favorite, right, on the team.

Like, how does that feel? What does that look like? Has that happened to y'all? Well, I've never been the least favorite. There you go. No, I mean, but I've always been very outspoken. So if I disagree with something, I'm going to tell you I disagree with. I'm also going to back it up with reasons why. It doesn't mean I'm necessarily not going to support it, but I'm going to tell

you why I don't think this might be a great idea or whatever. And I think that in and of itself is going to get you not well liked because I've always kind of spoke my mind. Also, I make jokes and I, I, you know, I'm a little silly, goofy. This is who I am. A lot of people that I work with enjoy it and they don't mind it, but there are some of those people that are very professional and it's not funny. This is not a joke, you know? And so I rub those people the wrong way. So I definitely think that I have not been the favorite probably more than I've been the favorite. The good thing is I know I do my job. I know I do my job well. And

I know that I run circles around a lot of people. So I think a lot of people all in all just don't bother me. They don't like don't get in my way. But I'm also the only friends I want to make are like work besties. And I'm not, you know, like I want to have some sort of connection with everyone if I can, but there are some people that are automatically going to dislike me. Ashley, what about you? I definitely have had circumstances, and I can think of one in particular, where especially with my role, my background having been legal in HR.

Talk about the dynamic duo of people that probably aren't going to be the favorites. And so, one thing that at times has worked in my favor is I really like and I'm really passionate about having positive experiences at work, no matter what your role is. And so, even when I was just solely a lawyer, which was for many years, whether I was talking internally to people or talking to opposing counsel and things, I never... I always really had to take additional effort to be kind to people and respectful and explain where I was coming from. Every once in a while, people would not be that way.

My husband can tell you. He heard me when I turned into, like, you don't want to fuck with me because that's how we're going to do it. Then that is, but that's not. I would also say that's not how I tend to work with people. But so sometimes I would have to tell people, like, this is, like, be the no person. And I always try to explain, but like being the no person, there's people that, you know, you're getting in the way of their fun or their idea.

And when you're not going to be a yes person and your responsibilities are to be a no. So I think in HR in particular, you have to sometimes really work hard to have those positive relationships and explain to people what your role is, because people don't know, and show them the positive things you can do. But for me, it felt really badly to come to work and either, one, have that feeling of, I just feel like this person does not like me, does not want to hear what I have to say. Even worse, slightly worse, is when they tell it to you the way they feel about you.

Which at least I can respect that because the very worst thing is to hear it from other people. Like, oh, do you know what they said about you? I'm like, I mean, I kind of want to know. I'm kind of not. I can live my life without that level because at the end of the day, sometimes you have a job to do. And so that's where I think that can be really hard is when you know that you're capable. You may feel like you're not.

But when you come to work and feel like someone does not like you, then you have to make that choice. I do think it's incredibly hard to overcome that. And this is where it's one of those go to God and go to the that. And this is where it's one of those, go to God and go to the streets, that if you're an environment and you are the least favorite and you can feel that vibe, there's some stuff you can do, but you have to also decide, is it worth my effort to prove that I'm capable? I was just about to say that. I was like, is it even worth it to prove it? And I think as HR people, we're already leading with just like, just being in HR or legal.

So it's hard when we're already leading with, well, the last HR person, blah, blah, blah, or whatever stigma comes with HR. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I'm just here like, oh, I'm in my feels because I'm recalling times where I was absolutely the least favorite. And I was thinking, well, what was the common denominator of those? And I think from a manager perspective, being a manager's least favorite, I think it was

because they felt or we both knew I could do the job better than they could, just based on their background and experience. Now, I would never say that. I would never said that to a leader, but I could feel or perceive perhaps that they were threatened or didn't like me for whatever reason, my background or this, that, and the other. Even though I was working my ass off to make them look good and look great, their way of working was to remove any sort of threats. I take the opposite as a leader.

I hire for things I don't know. I want to be surrounded by people that are better than me because it's just a reflection of my leadership and helps me succeed. But lots of managers out there take the opposite approach. They want to be surrounded by idiots so that they just look the best. They don't want anyone to take their jobs. They're just very threatened. And so I've had a couple of those. And what it looked like for me was being ostracized from different events or meetings or, you know, not being informed. Everyone else communicated to with personal calls and texts on something big, me finding out the next week at staff, you know, or through the water cooler.

I mean, things like that are so hurtful, especially when they're pieces of information you need to perform your job effectively. Those bosses would promote everybody else. Everybody else got the big raises and they dipped into my merit to make that happen. They dipped into my bonus to make that happen. And, you know, people compare notes. So, you know, that's exactly what happened. And the one thing that really killed me about one of these shit toxic bosses that I was her least favorite was that she gave me feedback to purposefully hurt me. And it was feedback that wasn't even true or real.

Like, I'm talking never in my life anyone has ever hinted. And I've gone through some extreme assessments, the places I've worked, and lots of feedback, feedback cultures. And never once did I hear, you know, I was X, Y, and Z. To where one time it was so ridiculous, I called her on the shit. I was like, okay, here I go. I can't take this anymore because typically I don't fight narcissism because you can't win, right?

So I'm just like, okay, delulu. But in this way, I was like, you know what? I do not accept that feedback. And she freaked out. Wait, what? What? I was like, no one in my life has ever told me that. That is a lie.

You were saying that on purpose to just try to hurt me. I'm sick of it. Once I uncovered that, I was just like, oh, oh. To the point about exiting may be the best thing to do in this situation. You are not going to change what's deeply rooted for somebody like that. I can't make her more secure. I can't make her comfortable with people that know different things than she does. Right? So you're not going to win. You're just not going to win.

And the battle is just futile. So that's definitely one where, hey, if you are perceiving that your leader's playing favorites and you are definitely not one, or if you're an extreme favorite even and it makes you uncomfortable, like in my previous example like you're not going to be able to change their perceptions of you, nor should you, right? But you can change your point of view, your scenery, your team. So it's best to just get to getting. I think that's a great, that's a really great point because people say, well, that's frustrating for my boss. What am I supposed to leave?

But that doesn't necessarily mean leave the organization. That can mean, and this is why, even as an employee, not as a, you don't have to be a manager or HR, but looking around and saying, what does the future look like? Is my boss going to be here for a long time? How long can I do this? And how can I compartmentalize and get the skills I need to either move internally, move to a different team, find that support externally,

internally? And so there's a lot that you can do from that decision tree. And I mean, it is one where I think I talk about this a lot is people are like, oh, what can we do? What can we do? Going to CHAT GPT as a personal coach, sometimes it can be reassuring because it's at your fingertips.

But saying, if I'm in a situation and my boss, give an example, cut me out of this meeting, told me to stop talking during meetings, how can I respond in a way that preserves my career? Or questions like that. Sometimes, again, it's not a wizard, but it can give you that objective perspective if you can't find anybody else, especially. Yeah. And this is a place that

people, I'm sure they come to you, they definitely come to me. They come to me a lot asking for coaching. And so I love your advice. Go to chat. GPT. We get individual questions. When we say questions and comments, people will say, and sometimes people send us these really long, tough... Super long... And our heart resonates. We can't provide specific advice. Here, we talk about things generally on the podcast, but so finding those resources. There are people that provide coaching, but again, I don't have a budget. Well, there's a lot you can do between expensive coaching and nothing, and sometimes it's like, let me fire up old chat GPT and get some ideas.

And it is constantly surprising me with what it can do to be a sounding board on things. Yeah, I think one of the big questions people ask is, well, what can I do about this? And what do I do next? And it's always, should I go to HR? Should I file a complaint? Should I do X, Y, and Z?

And honestly, it's not illegal to be an asshole. So if your boss is an asshole, that's not illegal. And it will take years of rehabilitation and development and training, if they're even getting anything, for them to change, air quotes, who they fundamentally are. Right? So if you do not like something, you are in control of you. And so instead of taking that futile, sad, lonely road of trying to go through all of this and to try and change them or move them out or get them fired or whatever, the quickest thing you can do is just take charge and control of where you choose to perform your work. You know what I mean?

So different team or whatever. But I mean, it could take years, I mean, to see change. And then this is where HR, we always get turned to, to be like, well, we told you HR and whatever. We get it, right? But we need documentation. I need a reason to fire somebody. You know, I have nothing, you know? I mean, ah, like, they're so great at kissing up

and stomping down. There's a, like, you know, or nothing they're doing is illegal. I'm counseling them, but guess what? Tiger stripes. They're still assholes. I don't, you know? So a lot of that behavior in the workplace, it's going to be hard to affect change. So, well, thoughts on that? Have you all been

there? Yes. Just get the fuck out. I know. Right. Well, I mean, I can't because it is an employment law. I know people in countries outside the US, they're much more employee friendly. The US can be a tricky, a very tricky place. If you have specific questions, it's always best to consult an employee-side attorney. They'll often do free consultations. But it's having been there as a lawyer, both in courtrooms, but then just generally, people

often are very surprised about what's legal and illegal in the US. And sometimes, an equal opportunity asshole generally is not illegal, but it is frustrating. But then it's the same thing. Like what's HR going to do? Well, that depends on what the leaders will let HR do. And so it can be really frustrating. There has to be a clear infraction, right? Has to reach the level of a hostile work environment, sexual harassment, something.

Yeah. I mean, there has to be something that is very clear and that sucks and it's unfortunate, but that's the truth of the matter because you can't move determination just because someone is claiming that they're not the favorite or a favoritism. I do encourage people to speak up about it though, because then that helps HR kind of keep an eye on the situation. But there isn't something that where we could just go, okay, well. Yeah, we can just fix it for you overnight.

Yeah, you're done. Hold the plug. Right. As we said, HR does not almost ever make these decisions on their own. Again, you'll have legal coming at times. Sometimes legal may say, like, we have to do this. This is the risk that organization will take on if we don't do this. But often it's that non-legal, non-HR person that's making that ultimate decision.

That's where it can get really hard and really frustrating for HR that lives and deals with these very toxic leaders and decisions and those ripple effects that they have on team members. Now, one thing I want to touch upon before we close this meeting out is nepotism, right? So, this probably needs its own episode, to be honest, but definitely a type of favoritism, potentially, right? I see that people use these terms interchangeably a lot. But really, it's people being favored for whatever reason in the workplace.

So have you all come across kind of intense or severe cases of nepotism at work? Have you all seen that? Yeah, absolutely. That's why a lot of times you're going to have those policies in place about friends and family cannot work, at least cannot be directly supervised by their spouse or mother, sister, brother, aunt for those exact reasons now that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Or, I've even been at companies where spouses applied, both got hired. They have the same last name,

no one had any idea for months and months and months. And they didn't disclose that? Nope. Months and months and months, didn't have any idea. It was I who ran an employee list. And I think we were doing like Christmas cards or something. And I noticed they lived in the same, the same address. And then I was like, wait a sec. And this, you know, we're like three months in at this point. So then, I mean, their jobs had nothing to do with each other, but the fact that they didn't disclose it was very sus, you know? Yeah. And of course, then the one started applying to be in the other spouse's department. It just like, and then when I realized that, and then I went to their benefits and I noticed beneficiaries.

Jamie's going deep on the investigate. This is... Oh, well, yeah. I'm like, wait a minute. Well, because they could be roommates. No big deal. They have the same last name. That's that's probably they could be brother or sister. I don't know. This is where we say often HR does not have the time to do things. Yeah, but no, I definitely did when I saw that. I think it was a workers comp report that I had to run for a certain state.

And I like there was only like five employees in that state. And I was like, oh, so and so and so. Oh, oh, wait a sec. I'll give a quick note to end on an appetism is the road to hell is paved with people that are on the same team as the board members nephew. Oh my God. Because board members, that person is never showing up to work on time, and that is perfectly fine. You may do that person's work, and that is perfectly fine, because that person is the

ultimate protected class, if you are related. You are fucked. To a senior executive. Then you have, that is like having all of the goodies in Mario Kart and all of the toys and you are safe. Lee? Yeah. I mean, I've seen this in two extremes, like big time extremes. And I really haven't worked anywhere that's had strict rules on this. Definitely chain of command rules. But I don't even know that they were written down. It was just kind of an understanding, right? But if you are a leader and you are listening to this, please, your daughter doesn't need that internship at your workplace. Your

niece doesn't need to be hired as a contract recruiter. All these things, it just looks tacky and inappropriate as hell. It looks like a lack of leadership. And we're all talking shit about you behind the scenes on why you would exploit your power like that. We just are. Because you look fucking terrible. You do. You look terrible doing that. And that's wonderful that you selfishly wanted to give someone you love an opportunity. And perhaps it was the right opportunity, but it reflects poorly on you and your leadership in your workplace, like the ends. So if you want to take that hit, take it, but please don't. Right?

Oh my gosh. I just look at them different when people do that. I'm the perfect person. It's my whoever. My loved one I know for 30 years. Okay, great. Oh man. Well, shall we close that topic there and shift into some questions and comments? What do we got? Do we have any questions and

comments? I do have a question for y'all. Should I dive into it? Sure. Go for it. So we talked about expense reports early in our water cooler talk. Thank you, Jamie, again for that. But it was making me think about when you do travel for work and you travel with coworkers. I got into a debate with someone recently on this, but do you sit together on the plane with those coworkers or not? What's the rule on that for y'all? Thinking back, I have. But we were like friends too.

Okay, so you were like bonding, you were team building while you were... Yeah, I mean, we, you know, I mean, I wouldn't say we were work besties, but we definitely were like good friends. Like I knew about her family and her, you know. Yeah, it definitely, I guess that is a good test to see if that's like a friend at work or not,

is who you would sit next to. I mean, I once paid to upgrade to sit next to my boss in the class. They were sitting, but it was because also I wanted to get the next level of SkyMiles, and you get an advantage if you do that. But also, we were flying across the country, and we had so many laughs because the flight attendant

kept skipping him. And we were like chuckling, chuckling about this. But and so I was about to say yes across the board, but then I thought to myself, no, if I, especially if I don't know someone that well, I certainly would not go out of my way to like switch and sit with them. But yeah, and I, like I tend to be a worker on Planner or watch movies. I don't like when people talk the whole time on the flight. So I'm answering that with a yes no. Lee?

It's a hell no for me. Yeah, it's like I knew that answer. Yeah, it's an absolute hell no. Okay, but what about us? Would you sit with us? Maybe. I'd sit within a couple rows. What does that matter? I'm not going to yell at you. I'm going to throw shit at you now.

No, just to be close, so you can kind of exit the plane. I wouldn't go out of my way to be right at the next seat. But it's to the point that you're talking about. It hurts physically to move your head and talk to people the whole flight. I've done that and that freaking hurts. I have to have a window seat due to flight anxiety. So I have to have a window. So I'm not going to accommodate and sit in an aisle to be able to sit next to somebody. Does that make sense? So I have my certain seat, but I need to like, I have to have sound.

I need something blasting in my ears to distract me from the flight, right? Then I'm going to watch my shows, which are probably questionable. Maybe they're light, porny, but not, you know what I'm saying? Light, porny. Light. Softcore. Like Outlander. Like, you know, it's a murder documentary and then my coworker is going to be like WTF.

Oh yeah, bitch, every night. Like I watch this shit, you know? This relaxes me. Yeah, it does. It does, you know? So yeah, so it's one of those. And then, you know, international flights, like you're sleeping.

And so I would not want to be next to a coworker and I'm there, you know, with my mouth open. I'm a mouth breather. But you know what I mean? Like that gets awkward. I have had that happen to me where I flew. I mean, I used to fly internationally back and forth to Sydney. I flew and coached and squished by myself. But I did get to fly first class once when I worked at a large consulting firm and flew with a colleague. And I forgot my melatonin. I didn't have anything. And so I didn't sleep on the flight. I felt like shit when we arrived in Amsterdam, actually, for my Amsterdam trip. But I like walked past

my colleague who was my good friend at work and she was like mouth open like, and I was chuckling to myself. And I was jealous because she was sleeping. But I mean, Jamie and I would be like, Oh, can we share a seat together? Like we sit on each other's lap and shit. Yeah, like I would sit on Ashley's lap. We're like braiding each other's hair. Oh my god, doing masks and shit. Yeah, and I'd be like, I don't like people talking on flight, right here as here I would be with Jamie like, hee hee. I'll veer this into my comments, which is one time I say I don't like people talking on flights.

And part of that is probably projection on myself. Because once I was going on a girls trip, this was 10 plus years ago, I was just out with a girlfriend Saturday night who was on this with me and brought this story up as we do frequently. So we were flying, everybody else was driving from Atlanta down to 38, but three of us were flying. And the Delta flight attendant was like, Oh, you guys going on a girls trip? She brought us a bottle of wine, looks so nice. And we're like sitting there drinking on the flight. Anyway, we're having like a good time, whatever Whatever we get there and we're at baggage claim, which is I know you don't like that way The baggage claim right? No, I don't use it

It's a bad idea But we were baggage claim this woman comes to me and I don't know why she had like a hand puppet almost on like a on her So it wasn't just like a wrist brace and that part we never understood and as she comes up right to me And she says, excuse me, I have to tell you, you were very loud on the plane and you were very disruptive to everyone on the plane. Oh, damn. Damn. Wow.

Wow. And my eyes, you know me, I get, I mean, I was so embarrassed. And I said, all of us, you know, pointing to two other people, all of us are just me. She's like, just you. Oh, why did you even ask that? Fuck her. Oh, I know. She needs data. I would have been like, fuck you, bitch. Look, you boring ass bitch that no one wants to talk to. Well, that's my thing. I said, am I like, am I the representative of our friends?

And then I said, my friends like Michael and Megan, who's like real like she'll come at you. She's like, yeah, that's me. she'll come at you. She's like, yeah That's me. I would have jumped or she was like, I'm sorry She's like no and I was like, of course I'm like was that that that any somebody else that just came up and she's like you were not she's like this woman is Crazy and I was like, thank you for providing the reassurance. I pretty much haven't said a word on a flight since That is so That makes me sad. That's really

fucked up. Because there are people that I would be like, that's obnoxious. And I do have probably a louder voice than I intend. But this other woman, then somebody else came up as well. I was like, you girls are fine. You're you're fine. But I was like, everybody are just, you know, so. Oh my God. Oh, I want to go back in time. I wish you had her address. I would call her. I know. But my girlfriend there, she's like, why did that woman have the sock puppet? I was like, I want to go back in time. I wish you had her address. I would call her. I know. But my girlfriend, she's like, why did that woman have the sock puppet? I was like, I don't know. I still don't really understand. And she's walking around with a sock puppet.

It was. But anyway. She has got no place to be giving people feedback. Okay. Don't worry. No peeps coming out of me on flights. Oh, damn. Well, that's fine. I would sit, you know, let me take that back a little bit. I would totally sit next to y'all. I just have to have the window. That's fine. But before we take off though, you will see me. I will put the headphones on.

You may be mid-sentence and I'll just be like, bye-bye. Like, you know, you're welcome to keep talking, you know, because I can't control you, but I can control me, you know. So I got to have this music. I got to zen out, you know, but anyway. We understand. Ashley and I would like be playing Hangman or something. Right? Oh gosh.

Well on that note, thanks for joining us for this wet run of our planning meeting here. So we appreciate you besties. Please like, follow, and share.