HR BESTIES - Meet Dave, HR Guru

Episode Date: November 8, 2023

Today's Agenda: HR saving your relationship Head hitting Hiring tips from financial advisor / HR guru Dave Ramsey (pray for the right team members, 30-minute "drive-by" interviews, look for 'passion') Deep dive on Dave's (illegal?) suggestion to review a candidate's personal budget. To learn more about the HR Besties, grab merch and reach out for partnerships, visit HRBesties.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Did I ever tell you guys about the time I saved a guy's marriage? No, do tell. All right. So, of course, it was open enrollment. Of course. That's how every... I know. That's exactly...

Every good HR story starts with... Open enrollment. Open enrollment. And, of course, I was calling everyone who hadn't yet enrolled that was previously enrolled. Look at you. I know. I was kind of a superstar when I was in the benefits department. But I called and I called this man and he answers and he's like, hello.

So then I, of course, start fucking whispering and I'm like, hi, is this so-and-so? And he's like, yeah. And I was like, hey, I wanted to let you know that you haven't completed your benefits enrollment and this is the last day to do it. And he was like, I'm in the dare blind. Can I call you back? And so I was like, of course, sir. Okay. So I really didn't keep calling back. And I had a list. So I was very young. This was early in my career. My first job out of college.

And I worked for a large farm chain, which, by the way, best job I've ever had. And so I really did not expect this man to call me back. But sure, sure shit, he did. And so I was walking him through, getting his benefits enrolled and got him all, him and his whole family of like 28 kids. Of course. And we're going down the dependent list, and I see that his wife's birthday is that day. And I was like, holy shit. Well, of course, I didn't say that.

I was like, hey, your wife's birthday is today. You probably could have said that to him. Yeah, probably. He was like, oh, shit. And he slaps his hand on his desk, and he goes, I got to go down to the Walmarts. The Walmarts. The, always the Walmarts. And it's plural.

That's a big town. Yeah. Well, yeah, if they have a Walmart. The one. Yeah. Walmarts. I got down to the Walmarts. So not only did she get her whole family enrolled in health insurance for the next year, but I also got her a birthday gift.

So I saved his marriage that year. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Congratulations to me on that one. Did he send you some venison? I know, right? Unfortunately, I did not get shit from that. Of course not.

Not even a good job. Seems like a mess. No. So typical HR professional. Yeah. Yeah. He got no appreciation. Of course. Don't want to meet the people. But way So typical HR professional. Yeah. Yeah. He got no appreciation. Of course.

Don't remember the people. But way to do your HR due diligence. I know. I know. The personal phone call. That's concierge right there. That's concierge. I'm super curious for those people listening right now that are like, my benefits person

has never called me about my. Oh, I know. Same. About my. And we had a lot of employees. So the list was about 90 people. Oh, man. Yeah. Doing the list was about 90 people. Oh, man. Doing the Lord's work right there. Look at you.

Yes, yes. Hard stop. Okay. Well, then why don't you go ahead and kick us off and run through the agenda for this meeting? Yeah, absolutely. So we're going to start with our cringy corporate speak, and then we're going to roll into our hot topic today where we are going to take a deep dive into Dave Ramsey's 12 components to a good hire. And let me just say this list is horrendous. Oh, I can't wait. And then of course, at the end, we're absolutely going to do our questions and comments. So should we kick it off, Ashley? Do you want to kick us off? Sure.

So for our cringy corporate speak, I'm going to use a term that you hear a lot in corporate by some of those male leaders who when it's time for them to go to the restroom, they let you know that they're going to hit the head. No, no, hard stop. let you know that they're going to hit the head. No, hard stop. If we are in a meeting and you have, you have to go, you have to go to the restroom, whatever you have to do. I don't need to know that you're about to go do that. You can just say, can we take a quick break? And that suffices, but going to hit the head. No, thank you. You guys hear that? Am I dumb that I don't even know what that means though? Like hit the head is like the head is just the toilet. The penis head? I know that's what I was going to say, but you is like, the head is just the toilet. The penis head? I know.

That's what I was going to say, but you said it for me. I just don't know even what that means. I think it's a urinal. Is it a urinal? Is it a urinal? I don't know.

See, it just like, I have to squat to pee. I know. I said, but anyway, TMI, TMI. But yes, yes. So that is a very cringy

corporate saying. I've heard it. I've heard it with my leaders and I literally will say, please, no, no, no. Please don't say that. What do you want me to say? Equally cringy is BioBreak.

No. Just say you're using a restroom. No, just say I need a quick break. I'm in a conference with lots of people. And I'm like, I don't need to look around the room. Again, it's everyone just going to wash their hands. That's what I just want to say. Just wash your hands.

Please. Please. Please, just take a break. Take your time on your breaks. Oh, my gosh. But I think't know. I don't know. I think that means the urinal. We're going to get so DM'd. We're going to get DM'd like crazy. Please explain. Is that a penis head? No, no, no, no, no, no one explain this to us after this, we are going to Google it ourselves. Do not send us anything about what that means. Fair enough. Okay, yes.

Oh, well, on that note, Jamie, over to you with our hot topic. What's the brilliant Dave Ramsey sharing with us now? So Dave Ramsey is obviously known for his financial advice and many people- Air quotes. Yes, loosely. Many people look to him for financial advice and many people, yes, loosely, many people look to him for financial advice.

And so when I stumbled upon this list, I was actually quite horrified. We're going to go over it. And this is 12 components of a good hire and there's some pretty crazy ones in here. So let's kind of lightly go over the ones that aren't as terrible. Okay. Oh, so there's good ones. Well, how do you find, when you stumble across this, are you looking for Dave Ramsey to give you daily life tips or are you- Absolutely not. This just sent to me. Okay.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you whoever sent this to me because I don't remember and I cannot give you credit. You didn't need this advice as an HR professional. Okay. Okay. No. You know how to do this. Mansplained. You didn't need this advice as an HR professional. Okay. Okay. No. You know how to do this. Mansplained. You didn't need this.

I absolutely was not on the Google saying, what are the 12 components of a good hire? I wonder what Dave thinks about this, right? Because he's so great with people. Okay. Yeah. And his advice. Does he tell us what hit the headbands in these 12 components? It may be one of the 12.

That would make it helpful. That alone. Unfortunately, no. Finally, he adds value. Okay. Oh, man. All right. So would make it helpful. That alone. Unfortunately, no. Finally, he adds value. Okay. Oh, man. All right.

So number one on this list is pray. And there was literally crickets in the HR. Yeah. Just pray for one. Pray together. Well, he's actually saying pray to God that they send you the team members that you need to do the work, which, okay, great. So if I don't believe in God, though, then I'm screwed, like already at the first one? Oh, damn.

Wait, but is this like a Mary Poppins, like you don't need to save a job posting? Like no need to job post because this person is going to show up like Moses in the basket. They're going to fly in the river. Oh, that would be nice. Fall from the sky onto your lap. Oh, that's probably not appropriate. Immaculate candidate. Oh, yeah. Immaculate candidization. I love that.

I love it. Yeah. So, you know, we do have a term in HR. I don't know if y'all use it, but we do say post and pray. Yeah. Post and pray. Yeah. Yeah. So somewhat similar, just as lazy. Post is the first part of it, but didn't say that. It's fine. They will just build it. They will come. Yeah. You don't even have to build it. They will come. Oh, that's what she said. Okay. So number two. Okay. Number two is get referrals. It's like, yeah, no shit, Dave. That's a legit one, right? Because what do they say? Who knows

the percentage? 90% of jobs are obtained by networking or connection. I will absolutely say that my last two jobs is I was a referral. Especially later in your career. A thousand. It's very helpful to be a referral. But I love this, the list that you sent and you shared this. You received this and you cascaded this onto us. I appreciate that. But I love that this one starts with thoroughbreds, run with thoroughbreds.

Yeah. So it makes me want to bond. Is that what that literally says? It does. I mean, I'm from Kentucky, so I kind of, while I love the idea of that. Off to the races. You know, also only using referrals tends to be a breeding ground for discrimination and hiring. Favoritism, nepotism. The good old boys club. Yeah. So, which I'm sure there's a lot of. We're just making assumptions, but I'm glad we had the legal expert in the room.

That is, that is true. Wait, this is, wait, this. If they have a referral and give them cash, if they complete the 90 day probation period, which is 100% a topic for another day. Yes. Give the referring team member a cash bounty. A bounty. A bounty. No, thank you. I do not want a goat.

And hand it out in front of the whole team. Here you go, Dave. Here's your bounty. Can you imagine if someone found you? Like, what are we, pirates all of a sudden? And I have scurvy, too. God, I mean, what the hell? But doesn't that feel kind of tacky?

Like, how could you do this job? It is. Watch me get $1,000 for you staying 90 days. Oh, God. The bounty in front of everybody. But we do believe in networking. Referrals are great. For sure.

That's legit. It's important. Incentives are important. Vouching. 100%. Sorry, wasn't you sucka? Maybe next time. There you go but also we

we know that there are certain people we would never refer to a job right like we all have that one friend that's like oh could you get me a job and you're like yeah send me your resume but we're not gonna do shit with it because we know what kind of you're gonna circle file yeah yeah or we've made that decision that mistake once in our life because I did with one of my best friends. I got him a job and he and I knew better. And I knew better. And you didn't have that

direct conversation. Yeah. Well, that's not awkward. So Dave, I'll give you that one. I'll give you that one. But do you need Dave Ramsey to give you that? I feel like that's pretty common sense advice. Yeah, that one is solid. That's sound. So number three is actually, it's not problematic, but it's a little confusing.

So it says, do a 30-minute drive-by interview. I'm not sure drive-by. It sounds violent. It sounds violent. One of those COVID birthday parties. Yeah, I went to drive-by shootings. I mean, that shows you where I maybe was born and raised. But yes, more like that.

That sounds more pleasant. The signs in the front yard. That was a good part of it. The sad high, like hanging out my sunroof. Air hug. Is this on a phone screen? Yeah, this is just a fucking phone screen. And he's saying a drive-by.

A drive-by. Thank you. Okay, so he doesn't know have a 30-minute call with the candidate make sure you know you're learning about them on the call and they're and you're telling them you have to get to know them oh that is freaking brilliant it's mind-blowing i love you know what i love what i love in this list is a good emphasis like just in case you weren't paying attention it starts off never never you repeat it twice never never hire someone after just one interview.

Oh God. But also don't do it after 20. I know exactly. And what if he prayed about it? Yeah. They were delivered. It's an immaculate candidate. They don't need the second coming to just bring just this.

This is the first time. I mean, how many times for certain jobs, how many times are you going to bring somebody back? Well, I'll tell you in a couple of times, it's at least 30 or 40. Why did I do that? Be sure not to go over the 30 minutes. how many times you're going to bring somebody back? Well, I'll tell you in a couple of times, it's at least 30 or 40. Why did I do that? Be sure not to go over the 30 minutes.

Yeah. Okay. So they have a hard stop. If you hear my mother going off. Can you imagine talking to Dave and you feel like you have good vibes? All of a sudden it goes off and he's like, I'm going to cut you down. For real, for real, for like a conveyor belt.

But you've got to wonder about someone who doesn't know the term phone screen giving you advice on how to hire somebody i mean that is what that is well in there you're you'll be amazed at what you learn in that call i have like a lot of screens on my fucking actually you will be amazed yeah yeah yeah he will be shocked okay that is literally the point yeah yeah you'll be clear on whether to set up that second interview. But also, I feel like a lot of times people come off and they're like, yeah, maybe. We'll give them a second one just to be sure. We'll give them a real interview.

If it's not a heck yes, it's a no. It is a no. Because it couldn't be a hell yes. You will be shocked at what you can find out in 30 minutes. Brilliant. I bet you've had some good time. Oh, I have. My favorite are the ones that you literally feel like you're pulling teeth to get like answers out of candidates in a phone screen.

Those are my favorite because I'm like, great. So tell me about tell me about this job. And they're like, do you say it like that? Like you're on OnlyFans or something? I want to sound as sexy as possible. I know. It sounded so adorable. It was like Betty Booper. So want to sound as sexy as possible. I know. It sounded so adorable. It was like Betty Booper.

So I loved it. Tell me about audience. You're missing me shaking my boobies. Oh, gosh. Good morning if you're driving to work. But it's, I don't know. Oh, God. All right.

Well, wait. Here's my thing, though. But to your point, though, in these interviews, I am shocked the people that show up that don't seem to have done any amount of preparation. And I think this is me because as you can probably tell, I am very, I am very into the research. I dive deep. I go real deep. And if I have a 30, a 30 minute interview, I have looked up. My problem with it is I have to make sure not to drop the facts that I have that have not been revealed to me.

But I have found from publicly available sources. And pretend like I'm surprised when they mention something that we have in common, that I've walked them down the road. You're doing a merger. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. A hundred percent. I'm shocked. All of us are elder millennials, so that was drilled into our heads.

I prefer geriatrics. Okay. All right. I'm a spice girl. I'm a millennial. But it was drilled into our heads in probably college that we need to do our research. But it's so surprising. And like, hey, do you know about our company?

And then I have to go into like a 30-minute spiel about even what we do and what this job is. Like, did you read the job description? Even like skim it? Right. All right. This company is very exciting. I'm like, well, the best. I? Even like skim it? No, all right. This company is very exciting. I'm like, well, the best. I couldn't tell you what we do.

The best are people so excited about the company. Well, especially if you're going into HR or legal, let me tell you what, you are not going to have an exciting. It's exactly the same. The best interview I ever read was this woman named Louise Firestone. Very, love that name.

She was the general counsel of Louis Vuitton and she wrote this interview. It was fantastic. But in it, people are like, oh, that must be amazing. And she's like, my job is literally no different than being general counsel of a toilet paper factory because when you're dealing with people issues or legal, it's not like, oh, let me tell you about this exciting- We're not reinventing the wheel, right? You got to be into the absolute basics. But it is amazing. The people that show up and they probably, they probably sleep a lot better at night than I do. They do. But Ashley, I've had someone forget their name. Okay. So I mean,

Well, Jamie forgot my name. Okay, Heather. Oh gosh. But for real, it would shock you. I think you could totally do, you could 100% do an OnlyFans that is a G-rated OnlyFans. And it's just peaks into peaks. Peaks, no pun intended. You know me, I would have a G-rated OnlyFans. I know. I'm the mom of the group.

Where you're like reading children's books. But that's someone's kink. That's someone's kink. No shame. Not kink shaming. A peek into interviews and the things that will shock people, that people will reveal about themselves in a 30-minute performance. So Dave is right. He will be amazed.

You will be amazed. That is the best advice so far. Because I've gotten a lot of good stories. You will be praying after that. We're basically basing a pod off of, yeah, lots of stories. Dave's right on number three. Check. All right.

So number four, also a no-brainer. Check the resumes and references. Resumes give you an overview of the candidate's formal training skills and certifications. Like, oh, is that what those are for? Damn, I've been using them wrong. I know. I just thought the resume was a list of shit I never want to do again. Exactly.

Is this the kind of stuff that makes you become a billionaire by having this kind of, you know, insight? Yeah. This is really, boy. Then I will give it. But the reference piece now, can we circle back around to that, right? Because I hate doing references. I don't think I've ever done that in my life. I have personally never requested that.

I think it's the biggest waste of time. Because let's be honest, the people that you're going to pink to be your references are... Your mom, your bestie, your... They're literally going to be the people that would co-sign your bullshit, right? So like they're the people that are going to ride or die for you and they're going to give you the best reference. So do they really tell the whole story? I would say in like 80% of jobs, just random percentage, pick any high percentage.

It's not necessary i can see some fields or professions where you may want to reference yeah you know what i mean like suit like the show suits if the show suits it's a whole series based on this thing of a guy that did not have a law degree and so if they don't if they got that memory all of that and so that's, but you would have saved yourself a whole series on that. But this makes me laugh because people can say

anything. I mean, Dave has some nuggets. People can say anything. That is true. People can also put anything on a resume that said that they did it. Absolutely. Yeah, people will tend to tell us. But I love he's like, occasionally, when you check a reference,

they'll find a candidate didn't tell them to expect a call or email or the candidate may even include someone who doesn't have nice things to say. These are often signals to run in the opposite direction.

That has never happened in the history of the world. That is not a thing. These are often signals. If you call someone's reference and they have bad shit to say about somebody, tell me about the exception. These are often signals to run in the opposite direction.

No, no, no. That's pretty much every time. That person does not know how to pick their friends. They do not have truth tellers around them. And so that's- They're low in critical thinking. Check the resumes and references. But here's a real question though,

is a lot of those companies have policies that will say only dates and title and salaries if if you have it. So I'm curious what Dave I'm curious what Dave would say about that. If you call a huge pile, you'd probably take that as a negative. Probably. Feel free to write us. I know. Right. Let us know what you think. But most people would just give the reference. I would be like, oh, our policy is this.

And you'll be like, don't let me tell you. I'll tell you. I'll tell you the real deal. But I'd be like, I'd be pointing to that policy. Waste of time, my opinion. So I'm jumping because we have to get this in. This one blew my little mind. Review their personal budget. Yeah. The candidate's budget. You're going to request. I'm not even reviewing. I'm not even reviewing my personal budget. You don't want to see my budget. TJ Maxx, HomeGoods. Why would I review somebody else's? I'm not even doing my own finances. I'm living by a prayer. Can the candidate afford to live on the salary you provide? If not, sooner or later, they'll blame you for not paying enough. Blame. Yeah. Oh, please. I don't know if you know this, but we're in this thing called a recession and inflation.

And like literally no one can afford food and shelter. Oh, my gosh. So, yes, I'm going to blame my job that the cost of living has rised and you have not provided me a raise. I can't believe he didn't put here that they will start stealing from you. That's right. That is 100 percent. Right. I'm sure that was the next line. He just didn't put it free oranges in the

kitchen. Worried about their bills. They're distracted and can't give their best. They can take your best, though. They can take they can 100 percent. 100 percent. They will they will take all of your best. Well, thankfully, no one's living a paycheck to paycheck. You know what I mean? Yeah. No, that's not a thing, especially not for Dave Ramsey. I am trying to I mean, I am trying to fathom. I can imagine the lawsuit that's like someone is trickling down and they're like, I sat down in paragraph five. I then sat down and he made me put my bank logins and we reviewed my QuickBooks. Gosh, could you imagine? How does this possibly work?

Can you imagine Dave Ramsey like going over your personal budget? Like, oh, your house is $500,000. Oh, and your car payment like, oh, you your house is five hundred thousand. Oh, and your car payment is oh, and your husband's car payment. Like, can you imagine an interview? He'd be like, oh, we got to get our envelope system going for you. Your therapist bills. Oh, we should adjust that. Oh, my gosh.

What medications are those that you're on? Why are those so expensive? What about what about all these stripper receipts? That is so cringy, though. What's OF? Oh, I know, right? You're getting a lot of income from OF. I know, right?

I mean, I'm... At what point... So also, at what point in the interview, in the interview process, is this at the offer stage? Or are you going to knock yourself out in that 30-minute drive-by? Just sketch me out, send me your receipt.

What is this going to affect, right? Like, this is after all the interviews, after they already want to hire you, and then all of a sudden this? This is before you extend the offer because you can't extend the offer and then say, well, you know, we're rescinding the offer. Your budget sucks. Is this not just a credit check? Yep, basically, it's a credit check. It is, which is weird. I mean, let's a credit trap. It is, which is weird. I mean...

Let's jump back in. So using testing tools. So you need enough relational... That is not a word. Relational. Relational? Relational intelligence. You know what he used?

He did that mouse. I don't know if it's left click or right click. He got synonyms. He had another word in there before he picked relational. That was not his first choice of work. No way. He suggests the disc personality assessment because of course he fucking does. The disc.

Of course. I'm sure you all have done the disc before. I am. I have. And like the Gallup strengths. So I don't know. I don't mind assessments. I don't think they ever tell you the full story. I'm not opposed to saying absolutely no to assessments, but I do think like some of them are literal bullshit. So I'm going to pass over the attorney here. I mean, there are like cases out there, right, where testing was intentionally used for discrimination. To eliminate, yeah.

Like to eliminate like types or groups of people, right? I mean, you know, people can really exploit the use of testing tools, no? Yeah. So there's two. So there are absolutely legal issues when you come to testing. So some is this idea of a test and it can be too intentionally. I mean, and candidly, you read through this list that's like right fit thoroughbred with thoroughbred. I mean, to me, as I look through that, I would not want to defend that type of

that type of claim because it tells me that you are looking for a very similar type of type of person, which candidly in leadership or in general workforce doesn't tend to work out because even if that's your customer base is going to be very varied. And so if you have all sorts of people in a certain profile, you're not going to have any insight into your customer base. But the other is sometimes it is not even intentional, but can have an impact. So anytime you have to have a test, if it comes back and people are like, Hey, wait a second, but this, this test, albeit the good intentions you have, or because I saw this on Dave Ramsey's page

and he told me this is a fantastic idea, but if it has an effect of screening out women, minorities, certain groups, then someone brings a claim, you have to then be able to show if you've chosen to use this test, hey, this test is validated and it shows these absolute real skills. And let me tell you who probably does not do that,

which is many organizations that use these tests that don't understand, that don't, that don't understand it. But, but in this, the problem I have in part is he says the right tools can help you figure out if someone's a good fit and role. So he's starting out, he's starting out this whole list about like these 30 minute drive-bys and be very cognizant of your time. He does not seem to be thinking about the candidate's time. And as anyone knows who interviews, it feels often like it is a huge waste of time. And sometimes it depends on roles.

Like he gives this example, like if you have someone crunchy numbers, like fair enough, you should probably figure out certain ways to make sure they're good at finance. But a lot of people that are made to do this test, or he's like, oh oh you could give assignments in writing copyediting presenting free labor presenting yeah it's exploited it's exploited

to go create a web phone i i literally i remember talking to someone that had interviewed this is a legal job and they interviewed for this legal job and they were told in the interview and this is like you know probably like step 7 of 14 or whatever this job that they were made meant to feel like was a reality show that they should be lucky to win the opportunity to have this job. And so at this one step, they said, OK, the next step in our process is sometime in the next. I can't remember if it's like seven days or 48 hours or whatever. You're going to get 72 hours. You're going to get an assignment from us.

And when you get that assignment, you then have eight hours to complete it. So you get a assignment, you then have eight hours to complete it. So you get a sense of the CIA or something. I mean, I mean, tell me what software solution you are putting out there. That is such a groundbreaking thing that you and he got the email at 7 a.m. on a Saturday. And I found out about this ages after the fact because he's like like a freaking idiot. I spent my whole time away from my family, sweating, sweating, getting all stressed out in this until I realized that assignment is a fantastic idea. If you want to give a signal to people, run, run. It is absolutely inappropriate.

It is. It's exploitative. No kidding. That company is using all of those ideas, all the case studies, all the essays, all your prove your innovative ideas, prompts and all that. And they're using them for free. A hundred percent. Well, people are like, well, then it's such a startup thing to do. But what you hear from people, which I think is, is, is fair is sometimes, sometimes I get so irritated by these things because I know what it's like as a candidate. I also have, you know, we all know friends and family that have interviewed and have

these experiences, but fair enough. Sometimes people will say, I never thought of it that way. Okay. Well think about it now, but I've never thought of it that way. So how can you test people if you don't have assignments? And I say, literally, what if you had this assignment? What would be your process? Like, what would you walk me through what your steps would be? Give them example, have them talk to you in a few minutes to talk to me about this software. You can do that in so many ways without having this person complete eight hours worth of work for free. Totally. And if you're telling me I'm going to be spending eight hours at 7 a.m. on a Saturday. But the problem is so many people don't have the they don't have the

choice or they again, they're set up in this process where they feel like it's a prize. And so I do not care for that because he says blah, blah, blah, blah, to test the chops of candidates who roll the chops. It's like it's because it's going into everything being suspicious of these people like you're trying to catch somebody 100% don't worry this this list gets worse well you know not to be radical but I absolutely am you know because I'm such a candidate experience focused person uh candidates should be compensated 100. I think you should be compensated by hour. You know, maybe it's like jury duty. You get five bucks an hour. No, no, no. It should be legitimate. But you know what I'm saying? And also, I think a lot of times, like I've had to

remind the hiring manager that these people did not just apply for our position. They probably applied for several positions. So we need to be, first of all, we need to be timely. We need to make sure we're making time on our calendars because, yes, we're busy, but they could get gone like that. Right. And then they get real frustrated. They're like, you'll hear from us by Friday, but then you might hear from them for weeks. But then if the candidate doesn't have the exact availability, it's all, you know, frustrating. Also, there's a link in this article to the dispersonality assessment. Exactly.

So it's just a sales thing. I don't see a disclosure. I don't see a conversation disclosure. That's cute. Well, let's pop to number six is ask yourself, do you like them? Hire people you like. It's that simple. Oh, my God.

Then why are there 11 other steps? Should that not have been the first one if it's that simple? I'm like, what if I only like them a little bit, but I'm pretty sure they're very qualified to do the job. I'm going to hire them. Sorry. I don't think my personal preferences are really up for debate there. You know, I do like hiring people that I want to work with. Like, you know, that I can trust them.

I want to, you know what I mean? I them. I want to, you know what I mean? I have to have a vibe. You know what I mean? Make sure that, you know, there's a fit with the organization. But not just me, right? Like, I'm not going to singularly just interview somebody and they just have to fit with me. They should have multiple interviews, multiple people, different perspectives, right? But who wants to hire someone that they hate?

Like, that's so, like, wow, groundbreaking. Well, that's the thing. He's hire people hire people you like basic then he jumps to well someone's good but they're a jerk or they have a different value system which which is so that tells me that he thinks a great question for an interview is tell me about your value system if someone asked me that i mean you know he's like what's your religion in these meetings? I think I'm a decent human. They won't like working with you either. Well, okay. He's like, okay, then whip out your credit report. But this is what the problem is. This also is then you get people that are neurodivergent, which, which means again, people who may function differently, they work differently. If someone's got a task, but they have a different value

system. First of all, there's a lot of people, for example, like tax and accounting, you may not work that closely with that person. That person may be absolutely fantastic at their job and they don't want to hear your jokes or jokey jokey or share their beliefs with you. And that is fine, Dave. That is fine, Dave Ramsey.

That is fine. But I mean, that 30 minute drive by. All right, let's skip to number seven. Look for passion. Do they light up? Look for passion when they talk about the position and your company's mission. Like, hey, bro, I'm just trying to get a damn job. I got to pay my rent.

My family needs food. Lack of passion is the easiest way to spot someone just looking for a J-O-B. Oh, my God. Yeah, it's spelled out. It's better than the never. Never. And watch, this job pays like $40,000. You know what I'm saying? But you're supposed to have like this deep-seated passion, you know, for tax accounting. I could get more on the black market for my kidney. It's like, I'm all good. Look, for fired up people that love their work and own the why behind it.

I'm like, do you want me to be honest? I've been in human resources for the last 20 years, and I'm not a huge fan of people. That is radically candid. That is. That is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I love passion, but I feel like that's one of those icing things. You know what I mean? That's an icing thing. That's not going to be the number one question on my interview.

I'm going to get the vibe if they're passionate. And not everyone can convey that. No. No. Yeah. Especially if they're in a new... Absolutely. They light up.

What are they, nuclear? Yeah. They snort Coke in the bathroom. That's not a value for them. If all they want is a paycheck, you'll never keep them happy. I mean, you can if you pay them enough. If you keep that paycheck. That's like for some people be there. That's action. I have learned that. If you look at salespeople, for example, there are many salespeople that are purely motivated by their own compensation. And you know what? There's a are many salespeople that are purely motivated by their own compensation.

A hundred percent. And you know what? There's a lot of those people that are very happy. But I'm just super curious about these jolly interviews that people are having because, I don't know, lack of passion. Well, it's the people he prayed for. So. Exactly. Let's hop to number nine.

Discuss compensation. No fucking shit. That's a good tip. That actually is a good one. I haven't thought No fucking shit. That's a good tip. That actually is a good one. I haven't thought about that before. It's a good point. But we're pro that, but so many employers aren't. Yes. I know some of the states are coming around.

Thank God. I know, right? Really, honestly. And really though, that was when I used to do recruiting when I was an HR employee of Department of One. That was the first thing I asked on my phone screens was, how much are you looking to make in this position? Because I don't, if I know the position pays $60,000 and they want $80,000, I'm going to need to be honest with them. And I might as well let them go now than, you know, lead them on this 30 people interview. And then be like, oh, here's your offer, $60,000.

But let me ask you this. Do you feel like that is the right step to ask candidates first, what are you looking for? Well, if you can post it in the job, I think that would be ideal. Our CEO was against that, unfortunately. And she wasn't a huge fan, but hopefully Tennessee will come around. And because like New York City, now you have to do it, California, Colorado. Well, you have in Colorado. And I remember first learning about this because you would see the job postings that would say in the bottom, candidates residing in Colorado are not eligible. Of course, me here, there I am. What does that mean? Let me Google that. And the Colorado, I don't know how it ended up getting resolved, but the Colorado, whatever department of labor equivalent, they came back

and they were like, uh-uh, I don't think so. If you have that language and you're excluding candidates from Colorado, we are going to come after you. And I'm super curious how that ended up. But I all the time tell organizations, you should not be doing this because you have to, because if you constantly are doing things like that, that is, it candidly is kind of a bit of a red flag because also then your people are like oh shoot is this position in new york city like you're you're trying to do the dance just make everyone's life easier but also what i know you all do not care for is the big ass salary ranges like oh yeah i've blasted it on humororous Resources, the zero to 100. I'm like, no, no, that's not a fucking range.

Surely you probably have some sort of salary bands. And there's probably, it's usually about 30 to 50 grand. There you go, giving organizations credit. Yeah. Surely you have a range. Well, surely you've thought about this. Let's just see what the first few interviews say. Yeah, but FYI, guys, HR does not come up with that.

Okay, thank you. It is often that hiring manager, but sometimes people will say, oh, you give organizations so much credit. Why would anyone do that when they're not required? But if you look, I tell companies, you should think about that candidate experience. And every once in a while,

even in this Dave Ramsey dirty dozen list, there's points of like people are people. And so when they come and work with you, as you start working, that is often how it's going to continue. And so people feel like that they're treated with respect and you come in in that. But even for organizations that you're not bought into that, and you don't believe that treated people when they're treated like humans tend to perform better. Think of your own interests, Because how many times do organizations have that? And you get down the line and there's this awkward dance about what's the comp package going to be. And then you get to offer stage and they've spent all this time.

You've spent all this time. And you're like, oh, shit, we're like $75,000 apart. Who would have thought? Oh, exactly. So if you care about nothing about the candidate's time, which you should, then think about your own time. Exactly. Stop wasting your own time with this. You cannot disclose. But I say also providing insight into what that looks like and don't have it be like who can negotiate better. This whole list is weird. And you know, we're not even done with this list, right? I mean, we have other things that we're

going to have to talk about. So may I suggest that we carry this topic over to the next meeting? Absolutely. Should we meet tomorrow on this? I think we should. Because you know what? I do have a hard stop. I got to go hit the head. I remember. Jamie's got to hit the head. Yes. Questions or comments. Does anybody have a question or comment?

I actually do have a comment. Wonderful. So Dave's headquarters is very close to where I live in Tennessee. And I frequently pass by it. And I like to flip it the bird. Full stop, period. Do you pray after doing so? No, I do not.

That's a good one and very relevant. Ashley, any questions or comments for us today? Yeah, so I have a comment that someone passed me a note for, but I'll go ahead and take credit as a cheerleader. That head, as in hitting the head, is military slang for bathroom. Oh, so it's not a penis head.

It's not. It's not, Jamie. It is a legitimate reference, but I'm going to say I still legitimately shudder every time I hear it. So I think it's like something every day. Just taking a quick break. So yeah, the more you know.

Wow. Okay. Yeah, that was totally you know. Wow. Okay. Yeah, that was totally relevant and very interesting. Awesome. Well, I have a comment and a quick question. The comment is only you can prevent corporate speak, but say that like a bear would, right? Say that like a bear would. And then a quick question.

If someone says a corporate saying in the woods, but no one's around to hear it, did that saying even happen? Right? I mean, not to get existential here at the end of this meeting. Believe in us, it's something to think about. But yeah, I want you all to think about that tonight. Let that keep you up. All right? Let that simmer. Let that simmer, right? It's one of those stew it. You know what I mean? Ah, awesome. Well, again, we have a hard stop, so we better close this meeting, but we look forward to continuing the conversation in our next meeting.

Thank you so much for joining us for some business and bullshit.