HR BESTIES - Resumes, Resumes, Resumes!

Episode Date: July 24, 2024

Today’s agenda:  Reddit HR Horror Story Cringe corporate speak: Right? Hot topic: All things resumes Resume review scams Addresses, pictures and other red flags Quality over quantity Yay or nay: cover letters Questions/Comments  Your To-Do List: Grab merch, submit Questions & Comments, and make sure that you’re the first to know about our In-Person Meetings (events!) at https://www.hrbesties.com. Follow your Besties across the socials and check out our resumes here: https://www.hrbesties.com/about.  We look forward to seeing you in our next meeting - don’t worry, we’ll have a hard stop! Yours in Business + Bullsh*t,  Leigh, Jamie & Ashley Follow Bestie Leigh! https://www.tiktok.com/@hrmanifesto https://www.instagram.com/hrmanifesto https://www.hrmanifesto.com Follow Bestie Ashley! https://www.tiktok.com/@managermethod  https://www.instagram.com/managermethod https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyherd/ https://managermethod.com Follow Bestie Jamie! https://www.millennialmisery.com/ Humorous Resources: Instagram • YouTube • Threads • Facebook • X Millennial Misery: Instagram • Threads • Facebook • X Horrendous HR: Instagram • Threads • Facebook Tune in to “HR Besties,” a business, work and management podcast hosted by Leigh Elena Henderson (HRManifesto), Ashley Herd (ManagerMethod) and Jamie Jackson (Humorous_Resources), where we navigate the labyrinth of corporate culture, from cringe corporate speak to toxic leadership. Whether you’re in Human Resources or not, corporate or small business, we offer sneak peeks into surviving work, hiring strategies, and making the employee experience better for all. Tune in for real talk on employee engagement, green flags in the workplace, and how to turn red flags into real change. Don't miss our chats about leadership, career coaching, and takes from work travel and watercooler gossip. Get new episodes every Wednesday and Friday, follow us on socials for the latest updates, and join us at our virtual happy hours to share your HR stories. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I was the HR director for our department store a few years back. I received a notification one morning from my IT department. The cameras had caught motion roughly around 1am and that they were forwarding me to the video because it had to do with someone from my department. Super confused, of course, I hit play and started watching. It was our store manager that entered the store, but he wasn't alone. He was with an unknown person. And then they proceeded to do the deed on every square inch of available display and shelving. Oh my god.

Shelving? Shelving, yeah. It sounds painful. Every employee was aware of the camera, so it really shocked me that he just seemed to forget like they turned off. It was the most awkward termination process, but it got even more awkward when he filed for unemployment. Did they have a hearing? A phone hearing though, because they don't want to do that in person, right? Can you imagine? Have you all ever done that?

Your faces, you're like, what? I was like, no, but my husband wanted to. Oh, damn. I assume there's no pictures in this Reddit. The shelving, I'm just really caught up on that because that seems to be like, that must be really good shelving, sturdy. You want the store layout now? For sure.

Of course I do. Well, you know, when I think of like the ivory steel ones, that's what I'm thinking. And I'm like, are you on the bottom shelf? Right. Like tucked in. That's not going to hold me. I want to know the logistics. Yeah. thinking and I'm like, are you on the bottom shelf? Right, like tucked in. That's not gonna hold me. I want to know the logistics. Yeah, we're all thinking about this now, right? Sounds uncomfy, but I'm also thinking like a department store probably has

bedding, right? And there's probably the fake beds. Right, right. Well, unless it's like Kmart with like hard lines, soft lines, where we have, you know, the different... And it's like amart with like hard lines, soft lines where we have, you know, the different... Well, yeah. And it's like a department store but not like the full furniture. It wasn't like... Certainly, I didn't work at like a fancy Kmart if there's fancy ones with furniture. Well, you know, and I worked at Sears for six years in high school and college.

Did they have furniture there? Well, no, but we had electronics and we had fridges and ovens and so. Washing machines. Yeah. Like you could do it on a washing machine. Oh, wow. That is, I mean, I'm curious what that person is paid to be an HR at that store. Is that the time when you show up to work and you see this?

And what is the moment? It's like the frog in water often in HR where it's like the craziest stuff and the craziest stuff happens and in some days you're just like unhinged, I cannot do this anymore. But is that that day for this individual? It's super unbelievable, right? But it's true. And that's, you know, and I always joke like people be people and I don't think people realize sometimes why HR professionals are jaded because it's shit like this. We have to deal with. Like definitely send me that Reddit because I guarantee and I'm going to investigate this

for myself later that there are people in those comments that are like no way you're lying. If you are listening to this, which obviously you are, that was the stupidest way to say it. And you're like, there's- They could be reading the transcript as well. That's true. They're, okay, thank you, Ashley, see? I love that, girl power.

But if you are sitting there, you could be standing. God damn, if you were just thinking, if you were just thinking there's no way this does not happen, you've got three people here, you know, telling you, I promise you, this happens and more. And part of our job as the workplace warriors, I swear, is to keep this from you. It's so that you can have a healthy,

as much as possible, employee experience. It truly is, right? We think about you all. We don't want this nasty shit to get out. Of course, we don't want it to hit the news, which sometimes it does, right? But really it's more so, we don't want to be shitting in the pool.

You know, we don't want to encourage this type of shit. We wanna nip it in the ass, and we wanna exit, we don't want to, you know, to encourage this type of shit. We want to nip it in the ass and we want to, you know, exit and we want to move forward and we want to just create something that's safe for you. You know, I mean, but yes, it does happen. So I bet there's comments people like no way away. Yeah, way. We got stories for days. Also. Also you know the IT guy.

Absolutely. That's how this shit leaks. It's usually at HR. It's not HR. It's the IT guy going to be like, you have to watch this. I promise. Because I've had people get upset with me. Oh, you know, I thought it was going to be confidential.

Bitch, it was. Okay. Except that your ass is on camera and that IT team's got eight people on it. And you know, it is what it is. I didn't- Group chat gone wild. Yes, it's true. Oh my gosh. You know that Jabber, whatever the hell else was hot. The Slack channel was- WhatsApp.

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And kudos to that boss for the staying power. Not staying power and employment, but other in other ways. Wow. That is what she said. That's all I can think about all night, really. Oh, damn. But anyways, this meeting's agenda. Let me go ahead and walk through that

so we can all be on the same page. But we are going to start with our cringe corporate speak, as always, and that is going to be brought to us today in this meeting by Ashley. She's on the docket for that little legal term there for you. I'll brag to myself. I know what it is. I think that's a legal agenda. I don't know. Yeah, no, it is. You're exactly, exactly right. Oh my God. Woo, yay. Good for me. Oh, gosh. I've watched a lot of TV. And then we are going to shift into our meeting hot topic, which is all things resumes.

So kind of a little resume 101, right? None of us here are professional resume consultants, I guess. I don't know what they call themselves. But, boy, do we know a fucking thing or two about resumes. We all have one, so that's a thing. Probably multiple versions. And we have probably read thousands and thousands of resumes between us.

I know I've read thousands, because I've done a lot of career fairs and conferences and whatnot. And so we are going to just share some do's and don'ts, perhaps, some best practices, dispel some social myths, you name it, but all things resumes. And so hopefully you find this meeting topic helpful. And then, of course, as always, we

are going to transition, pivot, and move and shift all the corporate cringe terms into some questions and comments. And so Ashley, kick us off. What do you got for us today? Today's docket has up, Your Honor. Love it. Is right. And what I mean by right is not right with a period at the end, but right with a question

mark at the end. And if you've been in meetings, I tend to see this definitely more in corporate than like non-corporate environments. And especially in like the tech, like maybe a marketing, marketing, sales, but even sometimes, sometimes even HR. But this idea of like, they say a sentence and then it's right at the end of it. As if it's like asking people to agree, but it's not. It's assuming that you're going to agree.

So to say like, our focus is on today's agenda, right? Right? But like they'll say right after many, many sentences. Have you all seen this and heard this? Yes. Yes. Both of us, yes. I'm pretty sure I do it sometimes. Oh, do you? Are you guilty?

Jamie's not going to speak the next because she's going to get ready and she's going to be worried she's going to add it to the end. Right? I even do it, no, I mean, I even do it in like emails. Like I'll be a correct question mark. No, no, no. But that's not what I'm talking about. You're asking then if people are correct. I mean it as people are saying it and they're literally not, they are not going to listen to anybody's opinion. They're just going to say it and move on to the next sentence.

And they're like, declaratory. Like in our Instagram, on our stories, I'll find some examples, like some examples of this. Hopefully there's like a YouTube that like talks about this. And so I'm not going to be a jerk and cut people. I got people doing this. But it's like, yeah, it's like, yeah, it does. Like, and I heard, I remember, I can literally remember, and I won't disclose who I was working for when I heard this. But I remember hearing this in a meeting and thinking to my own personal drinking coffee game.

Because I heard, it was a female in this instance, but she said it and she was in IT and she was in leadership and I think she said it 10 sentences in a row. And I was like, is she asking for people's opinions? I'd never heard this before. And it was odd. So you said the one with the question mark, but I've heard maybe more the one with the period for the start of shit. So they're like, right, moving on. Like it's kind of like a shutdown thing in a way, you know what I mean? To your point, so it's either shutting down the

beginning or shutting down at the end to say, we're all in agreement. Y'all don't get an opinion. Okay. Right. Yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah, we are. We are in agreement. Are we in agreement? We are in agreement. We will be in agreement. We will not disagree with me. Well I feel like the right question mark though is almost because maybe someone lacks confidence in what they're saying. So it's almost like the question mark, right? They're kind of like, agree with me. Like that's maybe, sometimes it is mark, right? They're kind of like, agree with me. Like that's maybe, sometimes it is that, right?

As you say that, I'm thinking of people that I can, I know from other things they've said that they've like had some kind of imposter syndrome type things. And to me, they don't seem as confident as I think they probably should be, but that is a good crutch. Ooh, Jamie, I'm gonna sit on that. Well, cause I think that, I think that's why I use it. It's because I'm pretty certain that I know the answer, but I almost want to

double-check myself. So I'm like, right? Like someone confirmed. It almost like, right? Yeah. Yeah. Like, am I on the right page? We've had a couple besties that wrote in about this as well, because we like when people suggest it and someone said, right. I said, oh good, that's on our spreadsheet. And it really is. So maybe if you say right, that's totally within your right to do that. But you may need to clarify. Like something that I do sometimes and it's kind of the same like what you're talking about. I will say, does that make sense? And people will interpret that, that I do sometimes and it's kind of the same like what you're talking about. I will say, does that make sense? And people will interpret that that I think they're stupid.

Sometimes I do. But but but the majority of the time, I'm seeking to understand like legitimately like, like, I like what I just said, does that make sense? Because I'm not altogether today. So did I make that make sense? So like I will expand like that and probably look insane, but it helps. I don't want to, I'm not trying to offend anybody. Yeah, well, even me, like I like,

I'm a big verbal processing. Like, and so I think a lot of times I'm like, we're like, we're on the same wave right? There you go. Well, right. So let's move on. I know. So let's move on to the hot topic of today. And that is all about resumes. God, let's just dig in. What social myths are you seeing out there, ladies?

What are people thinking about resumes? I think one thing that I've seen a huge influx of recently is just the career coaches that charge like $500 to $800 to redo your resume. I think that's the most frustrating for me because they are preying on people who clearly might be out of work, maybe due to a layoff, maybe, you know, and they're preying on people at their weakest moment when they're looking for a job and charging them an insane amount of money to look at their resume when there's so many things pre on the Google. Or like, or like, I mean, 5,800. I mean, there's ones that are like 2,500. Oh yeah. 3,000. But then the gap is then that one. And there's one who we've talked

about previously who's a LinkedIn lunatics frequent flyer who has a resume service that will charge like, that one's around a thousand, I think, or something like that. But was shown to have reached out to people that actually do that resume review work And was paying them so little like it was like like 50 bucks a resume 80. I mean it was like crazy Compared to things and so it's super it's super important as you're articulating What value you are like to give a two thousand percent markup on a review of someone that's likely out of work, like to that just does not sit right with me at all.

Exploitative. Please don't use those services. I mean, that's, that's my thing. You've got a free resource right here and us just sharing, you know what I mean? And you listen to our content and find someone credible in your personal lives or circle or whatever and get some support. We've talked about when Sammy Jones, who's on TikTok, win the job. We've talked about her previously. It's like win underscore the underscore job, but she does those reviews.

And I've referred people to her, including from all different levels, from kind of looking to transition careers or like literally senior level like a CEO level and have have rave reviews on Sammy. She's great and she's super reasonable and so that's well just one example that I can attest to. I always suggest when people ask me is HR Molly, Molly HR, she actually has a free template and so that's even just a good starting point. And you can Google, you know, action verbs.

You can Google fancy templates. You can also buy, well, you know, Word has a bunch of free ones. But you can also buy really pretty templates off of Etsy for like $3 if you want to get fancy. I mean, but don't get too pretty. Yeah. Yeah. Don't get too pretty. Truthfully, when I can tell you as someone who I have looked at those resumes, I could care less how pretty it is. I mean, I'll compliment like think, oh, this is a pretty resume, but I

don't give a shit what it looks like. I give a shit about what you've done, what your history is. what you've done, what your history is. But there are so many free resources out there. You can even just Google HR generalist sample resume and 500 things will pop up. And it doesn't mean that you're copying. It helps you read, oh, I've done that too. Or, oh, I did a part of that. And you can really, you don't need to pay a lot of money because there's so many free resources out there. And especially don't pay a lot of money to someone who has zero background in it. All right. So for some of these quote career coaches on LinkedIn that really prey on people, like, you know, Jamie, you were saying that are kind of down and out, right? They're in transition. There's a lot going on, right? Emotionally, all of this. Look at their backgrounds. Did they

ever work a day in a position where they wrote or reviewed resumes, some of the best people, the highly credible people are gonna be those with NHR, recruiters, talent acquisition professionals. I mean, people where they live and breathe this, they know the philosophy, they know the research, they themselves have reviewed thousands, they know how they read a resume. On average, research says,

we spend seven seconds on a resume. It's a billboard for you. It's a marketing cell for you to get an interview. That's it, right? So it's precious real estate for you to utilize. I've seen resumes out here that exploiters are trying to sell that are 10 pages long. No one's going to read that shit. They don't know what they're doing. They never went to school for this. The only time you ever need a resume like that is if you're like a physician. I know. Or an education. Like a CB. Yeah. Yeah. But that's really, that's it. Oh my gosh. Wild. Do you ever wish that you had an HR legal bestie in your pocket? 650 is just that.

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round questions. I was going to ask you some of your thoughts for some of these pictures on resumes. Well, you know, it's a big European thing. So I don't, I'm not a fan of it, but it's common. Yeah. Yeah, it's very common. So like sometimes you might get it because they're from somewhere in Europe. Not a huge fan of it though, personally, like I would never put my face. Absolutely not in the US where we have protected classes. The bias is so extreme. We're a country built on hate and racism. Sorry. I do love America. Go America. I know. I'm just saying. Okay. We have a lot of drama with that still. We haven't figured that out. Every place

around the world has issues with things like that. But that is not societally, socially, like what we would do here. You want to lessen the bias, right? As much as you can, right? So if you're like, oh, there's no way there's bias. Oh, please, just Google that and do the research. You know what I mean? A lot of it is subconscious, but a lot of it's not.

OK, so don't picture, picture. People won't even hire you because they think you're ugly. I'm not even kidding. And they want to be around someone that's pretty. Doesn't even matter what color you are or what sex or anything, it's crazy. Likewise, people, if you are, happen to be, you know, good looking, save that for Instagram. You know, don't, you could,

because you can also set yourself up unintentionally for some pretty unsafe situations by putting a very attractive picture in there and that's not you doing it, but generally I agree. I'm not for pictures. Okay, full address on your resume. Like full home address. Yeah, so I think prior to the pandemic, this was a thing and I think it was common.

I think post pandemic, it's not because remote work is so prevalent. So I say no, it is sometimes nice to know like a city or a state or even a state, but no, I do not need to know where you live. I could also, it also does bias. I remember years and years ago, someone's city was a good hour away and the person didn't want to interview them.

The hiring manager didn't want to interview them because, well, they're going to have to drive every day. I'm like, okay, well, they applied for the job knowing damn well where it is. Let that person make that decision. We're not making that decision for the person. Sure enough, we end up hiring the person. Another great example is, and I learned this back in grad school, they didn't want to put our addresses on there. I went to Mays Business School at Texas A&M, but they didn't want

us to put our addresses on there. Number one for safety, believe it or not, because we go crazy. And these things get sent everywhere. But the second reason is because to your point on bias, there's absolutely 1 million percent location bias. I've had employers tell me, ah, I see you're in Texas, quote, Texans never leave. Now I'm back in Texas, but I traveled around a lot and have lived in a lot of different places, but that's the thing, Texans never leave.

They love Texas too much. And so automatically they're like, we will not hire a Texan because they will not stay in making it up Massachusetts for more than a year or whatever. You know what I'm saying? They can't do winters, blah, blah, blah. They're too proud. So there's a lot of bias. And I agree. I think about for years, I put my full address on these... Oh, I know. God, me too. What were we thinking, you know?

I lived in Australia and was applying for jobs back in the US. I applied for a job back in the US, put my resume together. Why did anyone need to know where I lived? It was so... Okay, I'm glad. That's some of the stuff you see on social media that people talk about. You're like, oh, okay, I'm glad, like, that's some of the stuff you see on social media that people talk about. And you're like, Oh, my God, thank you. But, but also, if you see if you see a posting that says like, must live in one of these states, and you live

in one of those states, I agree, say in like, metro, you know, Atlanta, Georgia, where I live area, great. And, and so interviewers also, it's important to remember, you don't need to then ask that person, like, where do you live in Atlanta? None of your business. Don't, don't do that. You may, you may be trying to make conversation, but like it can feel off-putting and what good is going to come from that? Do you need to keep a resume to one page? I don't care if it's one page. I prefer it one page, but I mean, even my own has now bled into two. Yeah, I have two pages. I'd say absolutely no more than two.

Yeah. But what you have on there is meaningful. It needs to be meaningful. The shorter, the better. Because like I said, we're reading this and we're human and you want to lead with all the good shit like at the top. Don't give me, you know what I mean? Because we're spending seven seconds on it just to see if you're qualified to move you onto the good pile, you know?

But if you've had a 20-year career like me, the same, I mean you may have two pages, right? Make sure it's valuable. Yeah. Have I taken off Sears? I hope yes. I took off Chewie's ass. I know I've said this recently the best experience I know. I've said this recently. The best experience I had, I worked at McKinsey, but I think working at Subway and Kamer and I got more experience. I'm going to put those back on my resume. Hello, for real. For real.

Yeah. And Sears is where I started in HR, but I still, I removed it. You got to put that back. You got to leave it there. People are like, oh, she was in Sears HR? For real. What have you seen at 1.30 in the morning? Hired.

Hired Jamie. Well, okay. Personal hobbies on resume. Thoughts? Nope. Oh, I hate it. Save that for the- Hard stop.

I could give two shits what you do, Brett. See, I like them and I shouldn't. Oh! Because you're an extrovert. Bias. But also for me in part, because some of my hobbies are like golf, tennis. And so, but those can also

have then have a bias of like someone that's, oh, maybe they can play in our foursome in this tournament, like, you know, or things like that. But I've also seen ones about putting parenting in there, putting your kids. I had a conversation with a colleague about that once about whether you should put that you're a parent on your resume. And I had said that, I was like, I would take that off. And they were like, I want people to know that. And if they're not going to hire me because of it, I want them to. And I was like, I hear you, but like, I still, I don't.

Again, like just like no one needs to put anything about your parental status, I don't think. Yeah. Why this one's really tricky is because the majority of hobbies that I see are religious. Yeah. When people put that, it's a lot about their religion. And I've had lots of higher managers I've supported that have made comments. Oh, they're that? No. You know what I mean? I won't say what the that is, but it's always been the same that. So it's like I, you know, it's just another opportunity for bias. You want to see you as clean as you can stick to that

you are qualified for that job. Yeah. And show it. Well, yeah. And also like me, like what hobbies am I going to list? Like you have good hobbies, Ashley. I'm like social media. Memes, memes. You know, like they're going to be like, oh, this bitch is going to be on social media all damn day. Whatever. I mean, maybe if you're not in HR, but if you're into social media, I worked in HR at Sears and I have two plus million followers on Instagram.

Hired, my friend. You are sold. Next, when can you start? Okay. Here's the one putting, so taking, Jamie, I know you've heard of this, Lee, have you, where there are videos that if you take the text of the job description, and this is for like AT, to get you through the ATS, which are these applicant tracking systems that are these screeners.

So if you copy and paste that and put that in like one point font in, you know, white, whatever the background, yeah, so that's invisible, do that in the ATS. Does that help you to get through or have other keywords in like a hidden font on the page? Thoughts? I have never customized my resume for a position. And you've had some big jobs. I've had lots of big jobs. They've all been big jobs, you know? I like brush my shoulder.

Jamie Marra, seriously, I consider those very big jobs and my sandwich artist job at Subway was a very big job. Would you be giving me extra mayo or no? I mean, I want a shit ton of mayo. I would have charged you the appropriate price for it. And also I would have advised you. Is that extra? I mean, it depends. You're like, how much may you talk about? You're one of those. No, I would drink unlimited, unlimited Mountain Dews. That's we could have unlimited Mountain Dews. My body will never be the same. Oh, man.

No, I've never done that. But no, but this is like the custom. And so this would be. So this is also customizing by job, but also then including that language. Yeah. So here's what I can tell you in my experience. Any ATS system, they're not picking up keywords. That's not how they work.

You have to go searching for them, just FYI. You have to put that in. Yeah, like granted, could there be one? Absolutely, that I don't know about. But in my 21 years, I've never had an applicant tracking system that picks up keywords and then- It's worth a damn. Yeah. Well, yeah, they all fucking suck. But truly, typically what happens is there is, you know, let's say you post a job for 48 hours, 200 applicants could apply for said job. And I'm going through all 200 of those fucking resumes. And I've been recruiting before. So this, you know, this is a thing.

And there's no key words. There's no way that it red, green, yellows people. I have seen systems that red, green, yellow people, but it's all been based on an assessment that they were taken, not on their resume itself. So that's a huge myth, I believe. The juice ain't worth the squeeze. Yeah. All that effort and your time, you could have applied to 50 more jobs.

Exactly. And I think now there's likely, either there's already or going to be systems that flag you doing that. And also people can then highlight it and see it. And there are now absolutely recruiters that will do that and will ding you because of that. I mean, the thing I think to think of is if there's roles, when there's roles you're interested in, looking through those and seeing what did those roles speak to and does my resume speak to those as well? And is this a job that I'd want?

I think thinking, you know, cause it's also interviewing is, although it feels like a reality show, the prize isn't just plain old check, it's a, it's working for that money. And so you want to make sure it's something that you like. And so thinking about, okay, and I tell people all the time, I do not review for that money. And so you want to make sure it's something that you like. And so thinking about, okay, and I tell people all the time,

I do not review resumes for money. I do not review resumes for free. I'm not your go-to person on that. But when I have in the past, I've looked at them point blank and I'll say, okay, well, if you want to be a manager, for example, talk about the things that are like leadership. And if you haven't been a manager for long, that's fine,

but then highlight those things. So just, I think, think taking some time and as you put your general resume together and thinking about that role that you want, think about objectively, like, what do I want this to say? And how would this read to the human that is going to be looking at this and the hiring managers that are going to be looking at this? Does this speak to someone they'd want to have on their team? Ooh, I love all those questions, Ashley. So kind of on that, we're still on meeting hot topic, but I'm just curious for me to view quickly, right? Cause we had to shift into questions in commas,

but top best practice, right? Like what's the number one thing you share with somebody who comes to you and is like, hey, what's your top advice for resumes? You don't need to put your GPA. Oh, God. SAT score. But I did really good in grad school. I've literally applied for jobs that are like full that, you know, get to the application and people have asked for like my SAT score, GPAs, things like that. Yeah. I mean, of course.

Oh my God. I still see it sometimes. No way. Yeah. I mean, people send me the red flag job postings and I still say SAT and ACT scores. And I'm like, I don't remember mine to be completely honest. I really don't. I probably should. I have them somewhere. But like, yeah, we don't need to know that. The only people remember their scores are people that got that perfect score or whatever. They got the top 10%.

Oh yeah. Was it 36 on the ACT? I couldn't tell you what SATs was. 1600. Of course, of course. Ashley got it. That's why she knows. Ashley, what about you?

I mean, I think it is to look at your resume and look at a fresh look and think, what I want to work with this person and how would this person make my life easier? Because the people that you're going to interview with, one is HR, so thinking through, but then once you get past that screening, a lot of people are going to be either your boss, your colleagues, and those that you're going to be working closely with cross-functionally. And so does your resume speak to them of like things I'm going to do to make your life easier and what can you put in there that speaks to that?

And again, they should likely be doing the same thing to you. They probably won't, but your language will encourage them to do likewise. But when you can do that, if you're reading through your 200 resumes, you're going to want someone that stands out that's going to come in, be able to do things and again, seems like they'll be able to learn, be self-sufficient. And so just reading it from that lens. Lee, what about you? So what Jamie was saying, she's had a few hundred people on recs. I'm sure we've all had jobs

where we've had thousands. I've had 5,000, 6,000 people applying. Yeah, yeah, I have too. So to that point, just remember that as a job applicant, seven seconds, I'm gonna sound like a broken record. That's all we're gonna spend on that resume because there's so many things to review. So remember that the resume, like I said, is a billboard. It's a marketing ploy to get you the interview,

to get you a call. It is not designed to get you the job. That's where people fuck up. So what they do is they get so exhaustive in the resume. For each job, give me three action things that you've actually done with some, you know, quantifiable stats in there, right? And that's it. Tease me. Get me to where I want to know more about you. And I have to call your ass to learn how the hell did you do this, right? Do not tell me everything. That is a huge mistake because then you're just showing that's all you can do That's it. You know what I mean? So again precious real estate seven seconds Make it easy to read and you know get through it. Mm-hmm

Just the last I'll add is is there's a difference between Between like a career coach and a recruiter and I mean mean from a recruiter, especially third party recruiters. So some companies will have internal recruiters. So that's someone that isn't a fellow employee of that company. That person probably had, well, obviously, you know, works in the company and likely has a better insight into what the company's really like. And so when it comes to the time in the interview,

not the first thing you want to say out the gate to start the interview, you know, but when you can ask them what things are really like, they're going to have better insight. A third party recruiter that's hired, that is a very transactional person that is trying, they are also trying to get you the most money they can. They're going to want you to stay for at least 60 to 90 days, however long their period is, but they're, that's because after that, they have to find a replacement, but it's a pretty good period So they're candidly not often gonna be as invested in your long-term success. It is more transactional That's where you have to do more due diligence with the people you can talk to at the organization

But those people those third-party recruiters aren't gonna be they're not gonna be looking out for you and giving you advice on your resume And things like that often like they don't have time for that They're gonna have to find people that fit that profile already. And so if you really are looking for practical tips on your resume, finding someone, again, that career coach that's had that experience and can give you some of those tips that way, just don't try to rely on those third party recruiters of like, can you find me a job? They're not often going to be marketing you out there. They're going to slot you in spots. They have openings. And so just to be really mindful of what those different roles are. Yeah. What I've always shared with people is we, the company, the recruiter, whatever,

find people for jobs, not jobs for people. And if they don't think it's going to work out, like not trying to prove yourself for this job. Again, sometimes you're going to do that, but knowing that's why, if you're applying to something and your resume is not exactly spot on and that's an internal recruiter that's looking at, it can be hard to get through. And that's where you may have to really show the experience that you have to get into it. Excellent points, ladies. Oh my gosh, look at us. We're all resumes 101. Ah, well, shifting into some questions and comments to end this meeting. Ladies, any questions or comments? Yeah, I kind of wanted to get y'all's thoughts on cover letters because I know for me, I'd

rather eat an entire bus tire than have to write a cover letter. So what are your thoughts on them? Do you read them? Do you do them? Well, I've had several videos on cover letters. My position is fuck cover letters. I don't write them personally. I don't want to work in an organization that would require a cover letter and all this

extra unpaid work for an organization that would require a cover letter and all this extra unpaid work for an applicant. So that's just, again, my position, but that's my field too in the industries I've worked in. So I never felt that was appropriate, meaning, hey, I've never won one of my jobs with a cover letter. I've never had a cover letter and I do not read them. I've not requested one ever from an applicant and I don't think I've worked anywhere that required a cover letter either. So I don't like that extra hurdle or step. Now if you are a copywriter or something and they need a work stamp, they're different, okay? You know, that's different. Yeah, that's different. Nope. I am not a fan.

I'm not a fan generally of like the extra steps, but I do think there's times when they can be helpful and those are when you're trying to explain something that's not evident from the face of your resume. And that's a lot of times you'll hear from people that are trying to transition industries. So you may be in food service, retail, trying to get into a corporate environment, which God love you, I've run. No, but I just know, but so, or teach the people, if you have a role, and so a couple things, one is if you're trying to do that transition, going to somewhere

like a chat GPT of how can I say on my resume, what are skills I can highlight and put those into terms. And so, because you don't want to lie about what your experience is, but that's where I think in a cover letter, it doesn't always have to be so formal, but that's where I do think you can stand out to give that explanation. Or it's, and I know this is controversial, is finding that hiring manager and sending them like a LinkedIn note. And I say hiring manager, not recruiter, because if that's the person that's going to make a decision standing out and saying, you know, I know you have a slew of applicants, this

has been very short. This has been my experience. I'm transitioning. Here are the skills I've developed that'll absolutely translate to success. And yours, I'd just love to be included in those initial round of interviews. There are people that will hate that and will ignore that. Okay, fair enough.

You don't want to work with them anyway. And honestly, not that many people do this. And so, yes, if I'm hiring for a role, I'd probably be bugged if I got a million LinkedIn messages, but you may get like two or three. Like, rarely do people actually take this step. And so if it is something you really want, because what that can be easier as well is that hiring manager can say to the recruiter, hey, include this person in that initial stack. And I've seen situations where people got an auto decline when they submitted

their resume, that they didn't get through the recruiter because they're like their resume didn't read it. But then the hiring manager said include them. So they're like, Hey, we're actually we'd love to include you and people that have gotten those roles. And so that's where again, everybody's got to make your decision and it's not always going to work. But that can be one. So I think a cover letter if you ever like I've had them like seeing them if someone's like moving geographically or there's something that you're trying to explain again, doesn't

have to have to be long. But that's where I think they can be helpful. I do not like job postings that require them as a matter of course. No, no. Yeah. Or like I've seen them used before, for instance, like a stay at home mother for the first five years of the child's life and she wants to explain, I'm also okay with having a little blip about that on their resume. Yeah. Yeah.

That's like a professional summary at the top. It's two sentences, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's like a professional summary at the top. It's two sentences, whatever. Yeah, yeah, totally. And again, there's really, I prefer that. And there are no potions. There's nothing anybody can ever tell you that will get you through to every job.

But it's about finding what's authentic to you and that you wanna get out there and things that can increase the chances of you finding a job that's really right for you. And that may mean you get some more no's along the way at times, but I'm all about candor and honesty in that process. Right? Love it.

Jay, you are the best. You are the best. This is why you can never leave corporate because you're that person to be in every meeting to keep people on track. I do. And- Right. I do. Right. All right. So, see, it's a transition one.

Any other questions or comments? I have a comment that's completely unrelated. So I'm the person that you don't want in a meeting because you're trying to get the F out of there. Exactly. You're between us and lunch. It reminded me of this, of like when I said that I'm sure some applicant tracking systems now are figuring out when people try to hide and put the job posting in there and flagging that. But did

you know, in the legal world, you don't want to just post someone's pic, like take someone's pictures off the internet and post them. Like a lot of times, media companies will like, an intern will post a picture in a news article and then they get sued for that or like, like a picture of a restaurant and include that without getting credit from their photographer. But one of the one of the reasons why you see people is because you can get a lot of like, photographers can get a lot of money by by doing that. But there's a service, their services owned by big photography companies that literally, photographers can go and upload their pictures,

they upload all their pictures and those services crawl the web continuously and alert them when another site is using their picture. Then also those services now, they're now Dodo's, they can then send out automated demand letters to companies and are like, pay us thousands of dollars or else we'll sue you for even more thousands of dollars and for photographers. One of the big roles you would see,

like, and I often did this as like in my lawyer life is like, don't publish people's pictures without rights, especially in media things. But anyway, those kinds of services like that, that can tell if people have posted your pictures on the internet. Yeah, so anyway, fun fact. Ooh, yeah.

Well, not a comment from me, but a quick question. What is the craziest thing that you've seen on a resume? And I may have asked something similar like this before, but it definitely works here. I saw a resume that had a label maker thing added to it that said, my poor mother had been deceased and would have loved, I can't think of the exact language, but like, would have loved to have seen me working here. And this was added in a label maker at the bottom, at the bottom of the resume. Under hobbies and interests. Yeah, but I could take a resume and this on top. And so again, I have questions of like,

why didn't you just edit the resume and put that on? It stood out. Yeah. Yeah. It stood out. Yeah. Yeah. Stood up. For me, one time, I had someone do deliver little bunt-tinis with her resume inside. Love it. And I unfortunately was in a meeting and it was like a long meeting. And so I didn't get to meet her because she apparently waited for like a good 30 minutes, which I feel very bad. They told her I was in a meeting, but I didn't end up hiring her. But I did enjoy the Buntinis.

But I just thought that was very neat, like kind of go in the extra mile showing up and whatnot. Well, that one person was on LinkedIn Lunatics for doing that, I think, with her, and they gave a cake to Nike and send them a cake with her resume on it. And I think that's maybe one of the top viewed posts on LinkedIn Lunatics. People were very split about the creativity and not. So I don't think she ended up getting the job at Nike. But anyway. If it's your dream job, go for it. Like get seen because it really is about who you know,

right? Like networking and all of that, making an impression, blah, blah, blah. Well, you know, but I wouldn't spend that amount of money for every job, you know? Yeah. And I was also thinking like how many other companies did she deliver Buntini's to? Like that's what I was thinking in my head. I did end up calling her for a fun screen, but it was very a painful phone screen. Oh, bless. That's why she's trying to buy people off with food. Gosh, I think one of the craziest things I've seen, it's really just a favorite story of mine because I actually, HR confession,

I actually had the resume on my fridge for a while because it was just so interesting. I was at a career fair in California. And it was like a quick, you know, like, you're almost doing just screens like lines, I mean, you were just hiring hundreds of people and offers on the spot sort of thing. But this one guy had that email hates to work 6969 at hotmail.com. And I mean, I've just shared, gosh, buddy, it's going to be hard for you. Not a good look, babe.

Did you get, wait, did you give him that feedback? Yeah. Good on you. Interesting email. Yeah. I had something almost similar happen. I had called someone for a phone screen and their ringback tone was, take this job and shove it. Oh my gosh. It made me laugh so hard. I also one time was at a career fair at a Goodwill and there were several, several people and not just women that I had to like pull to the side and be like, hey, you should approach

these career fairs like you are interviewing because your titties are out or I can see your pajamas or I can see your underwear. Your thongs plopping. And that was not a girl. That was a boy. And great, it wasn't a goodwill. I mean, I get it. But like, I hate the saying, dress for the job you want, not the job you have. But it's true. Like, there is some level that you have to come prepared for like career fairs. And what you're able to put together. Yeah.

You only get one chance to make a first impression, right? Well, and that's where I think one organization, I'm sure there's others, we'll get some and we'll share them, but one I know is like Dress for Success, which is one, and so for two months, one is if you're in a position and you're needing some attire and things like that,

especially like, I mean, God, I remember like, even like I think going back to work after maternity leave, I mean, like I'm like, I needed triple slicks, I couldn't fit into anything. Or like interviewing, things like that. Whether you're in different seasons of life and you're like need something quickly or financially, like I just can't right now.

And so Dress for Success is an organization you can often get really business attire, but also as an employer, doing that internally and having the Dress for Success drive and gathering those clothes and having that can be really helpful and something that you can do to help things that people otherwise may one-off, just donate somewhere. And they tend to have chapters kind of all over, all over. So that's it. I know that. But resumes.

Gosh, a necessary evil, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Oh gosh, well, I certainly appreciate you all. I know we have a hard stop, but I thought tons of awesome advice. I know I learned something. Did y'all learn something? Any new perspectives?

No. I'm just No. Right. Sometimes in the middle of the night, I think about how I used to put my full address on, on that was, I know, it's like cringe and also, yeah, like just putting myself, put myself out there and just not necessary, but that's okay. You don't know until you know. Did you do the pink paper though? And spray the perfume? Oh my God. I have had that too before. See, it wasn't know until you know. Did you do the pink paper though and spray the perfume on? Oh my God, I have had that too before.

Me too. See, it wasn't all bad, Ashley. It was the worst spelling. I was like, oh my God, get this out of here. Yeah, no, no, don't do that. People have sensitivities. Yeah. Just plain paper.

Exactly. Black and white ink. But hold on, I'm going to really date us really now because we're elder millennials. But do you remember when we had to have resume paper? Yes, of course, for sure. Oh, I never had resume paper. Oh my God. Yeah, you had to spy special paper to print your resume on. Well, y'all are older than me.

I am older than you by 10 days, I think. I am the eldest of the millennials in this. I will pipe down people. Pipe down. It's time to be quiet and end this meeting. Everyone listening wants to go to work. Hard stuff. Begrudgingly. So they're ready to spruce up their resumes. Exactly. They got to hurry up and go do that. We've gotten all of our tips. Oh, we appreciate you besties. Like, follow and share. Thank you so much for listening.