HR BESTIES - The Right To Disconnect

Episode Date: May 15, 2024

Today’s agenda:  Mandated bible study Cringe corporate speak: Stay in your lane Hot topic: Right to Disconnect Disconnecting is difficult (oh, we know) Encouraging breaks is good management How can we set boundaries? Advocating for your team Questions/Comments  Your To-Do List: Grab merch, submit Questions & Comments, and make sure that you’re the first to know about our In-Person Meetings (events!) at https://www.hrbesties.com. Follow your Besties across the socials and check out our resumes here: https://www.hrbesties.com/about.  We look forward to seeing you in our next meeting - don’t worry, we’ll have a hard stop! Yours in Business + Bullsh*t,  Leigh, Jamie & Ashley Follow Bestie Leigh! https://www.tiktok.com/@hrmanifesto https://www.instagram.com/hrmanifesto https://www.hrmanifesto.com Follow Bestie Ashley! https://www.tiktok.com/@managermethod  https://www.instagram.com/managermethod https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyherd/ https://managermethod.com Follow Bestie Jamie! https://www.millennialmisery.com/ Humorous Resources: Instagram • YouTube • Threads • Facebook • X Millennial Misery: Instagram • Threads • Facebook • X Horrendous HR: Instagram • Threads • Facebook Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

So I don't know about y'all, but I can guess. For those of you listening, I'm going to make the assumption that you probably have lunch during your lunch break, or you spend that time doing things for you. Like you know, probably maybe not working, hopefully, take a little break. But, you know, you're doing things on your agenda, to-do list, whatever, right? Your grocery list, you're running errands, perhaps even during lunch, you're grabbing that coffee, you're meeting with a friend, whatever. Could you imagine being forced to do something during your lunch break that you are not compensated for, but for your state, are able to take that 30-minute lunch break?

Could you imagine your supervisor controlling your lunch break? No. Oh well then brace yourselves because let me share with you a very true tale of a supervisor mandating Bible study for his entire team. Oh For a very long time like a like a year at least That was approved

By his leader and even the CEO. Oh Mandating it like everyone had to go Everyone no matter what you believed or what you had planned for your lunch break Everybody had to attend a mandatory Bible study because that supervisor was a minister Well, this was not approved by HR. And it was approved by HR. Oh my God. And then here I walk in as new HR. Totally not able to do this. Oh, but my manager said I could. I don't care what your manager said. Oh, but then his manager, the CEO said we could. Well, I don't care what he said either. I mean, I don't care that he approved that either. That shit's going to stop. So then,

of course, that supervisor gets very mad. And then it escalates and I'm the bad guy and I'm out to get them and I'm anti all religion. I was spat at pretty much by of course that guy. And you know, I'm anti everything. Yeah. I mean, I am, I'm a devil worshiper, everything. I'm anti that. And it's like, I am so not that. I am, everyone can do what they would like to do.

I'm the polar of that. We're not forcing anybody into buckets of this mandating it illegally. Exactly. That's what I mean. The red flags are just like, woo! And that's the whole point right there, right? It's like, I don't care who approved it, I'm doing air quotes, but there's literally rights and there's wrongs, you know?

So I don't, they're just all wrong. Well, let me see, would people bring lunch during it? Would you eat? Or would you, I'm so curious. Yeah. Okay. During it? And so they'd be like, well, people bring lunch during it. Would you eat or would you? I'm so yeah. Okay. Yeah. And so they'd be like, well, that's a free, free time. Were there people that came up to you afterwards? They were like, you know, I didn't thank you. Yeah. I didn't feel like I did. Yeah. That had been complaining. I'm sure for as long as this has happened because you know, people that that wasn't their faith, they had another faith people

that weren't faithful at all. People that just wanted to go out to eat. You may be faithful, but faith is a very personal thing. People don't want to, I mean, we've talked, people don't want to share a fun fact or ice breaker in front of them. A lot of people don't want to share their personal religion that they do outside of work with them. And one thing that I would do a lot during my lunch break when my children were little was I would go to Target and buy my diapers because you can't take little children.

So like, I would be like, no, I gotta go get diapers. I can't stay for Bible study. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. My mind went somewhere else when you said that. I was thinking it depends. I don't know why. I missed the kid part. I don't know why.

The little kids, they were babies. Yeah, like that's what I did. There was a super target near my work and like I can't imagine a teacher, a supervisor saying, you know, I'd be like, fuck no, I gotta go get my kids. I gotta go get diapers. I ain't taking them little shits to Target. I know. That's why I do it on my personal lunch break.

And I mean, it was one of those roles where it was a it was a JV and it had been kind of held off to the side. And it was just kind of a lawless town. And for so many reasons. And when I entered, there were so many things, this being one of them where I was taken aback, I was almost like in the upside down. Like I was like, there's everything I always knew to be true. And then enter this, you know, because I'd always worked in big corporate and I still was, except I

was not seconded, but interesting set up legally. But just a very unique experience, you know, kind of being in that more mom and pop shop on purpose, like it was set up that way, and experiencing some of the things I did. And that was one of them. And I just couldn't believe that, you know, prior HR, current leadership, they all approved that. They all thought that was fine. That breaks my heart for those people.

They really almost, they literally suffered through that. And we're very open about that, suffering through that. And I'm very thankful to get their lunch back. Could you imagine? I think it was like twice a week or something. I mean, it was a lot. I've known a lot of workplaces that have things like that. I think it's always a bad idea,

unless you're a religious institution, to bring religion into the workplace, things like that, of activities. And even when leaders are talking, like, I've been in situations and leaders have talked, who's someone you admire? Well, well, Jesus Christ. And I'm like, okay, but it's, you know, and then someone leans over, well, does Jesus yell at their assistant in the executive parking lot? Like I saw him last week? So when you say things like that, sometimes you're inviting people to be like, do you literally practice what you preach?

But yeah, when I practice what you preach, but overall, I do think it's a very personal thing and it leads to extreme levels of pressure that can make people feel really uncomfortable. And so I think there's a very, we are all for supporting things like, welcome to the sun, religious accommodations and things like that. Of course.

But that's very different from making people do things that you think that they should because that's how you personally. Absolutely. Mandating that. I think individuality gets pushed out of that corporate setting. Like in this case, no one else was thinking about anyone else being a different religion or a different faith. And then-

Or hungry. Or yeah, just hungry. Yeah, hungry, I want to eat. I mean, I don't like, sometimes I'm a messy eater and I don't want to eat in front of everybody. And you know, yeah, I just want to eat in my car. I thought that story was going to like a lunch and learn though. Yeah.

Cause I was like, oh, I've done lunch and learn. But they were optional, no? Oh, you did some forced lunch and learn. Well, yeah. There's been some places where there's like manager lunch and learn. And like, if you're a leader, you're, you're voluntold to be present for the manager luncheon luncheon. Yeah. So, Oh gosh.

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Go to kraken.com and see what crypto can be Not investment advice crypto trading involves risk of loss see kraken.com legal ca-pru Disclaimer for info on Kraken's undertaking to register in Canada We appreciate you clearing your calendar to join us, the HR besties, for our meeting today. Now let's run through the agenda briefly. Just had a little water cooler talk there, but now we are going to transition into some cringe corporate speak and Ashley is going to take the lead on that. And then our meeting hot topic for today is all about the right to disconnect,

which is definitely hot in the news and it's a hot topic in our meeting. So we can't wait to kind of get into all things disconnecting from work and then of course as we do for all meetings we have our questions and comments. Ashley take it away with cringe corporate speak. My cringe corporate speak today is stay in your lane and the way you tend to hear that is when someone at work, especially a leader, hear something they don't want to hear and they will tell people, stay in your lane, which can mean do your job and don't try to give opinions on others' thoughts. Yeah, I see that a lot when it's like fighting with functions.

Yes. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like fighting between us functions, HR and finance and engineering and ops. I would have to stay in your lane, you know, stay in your lane, you know, hey, but. I use it a lot when I'm commuting into work. Stay in your lane.

I mean, you talk to cars, don't you? I know you talk to cars. No, I do. The Italian in me, in my hands. I always have the hands. Like, motherfucker, yeah. Totally. But yes, like in a corporate setting,

ugh. It's basically telling someone to shut the fuck up. Put you in your place. It's the blessed heart of corporate America. Yeah, a little head pat. It's like a head pat. I'll stay in your lane. And one thing about it, I think it's great when people either vocalize questions

or thoughts on something. And if it's not your area of expertise, then it's important if someone is explaining to you something why, why that might not work and understanding that. But I think it's great. One of the, again, best things about workplaces when you work cross functionally, I mean, working with other departments, is them learning about the day to day shit that you do, that they have no idea how it gets done, and you. And so talk, I mean, that's how change happens and innovation happens is really thinking about what you can do and soliciting and listening to,

and sometimes, given the explanation, but sometimes implementing ideas from other people. And so if you have a workplace that is stay in your lane focus, then what that tells me is there's a lot of people that are afraid to vocal, they're afraid of getting in trouble. And if your business or organization is always in a defensive posture, then you are fucked.

Not safe. With a capital F. With a capital F. Good luck with that. Oh, gosh. Thank you so much for that cringe corporate speak. Let's not use that one. I don't know. That one seems like a negative one, doesn't it? It's just me. It's like, I mean, it's like, it is, it's me. It's like, again, if someone tells you something, you don't agree with it.

It's stifling comps. And there's all sorts of ways you can respond. That's just a more mean one. And so when that person has a good idea, guess where they're bringing that to your competitor. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I like that. Like that Willy Wonka. Like, you know, when that the man was following them around the candy store and wanted the ideas about the everlasting Gobstopper. He was the creepiest figure of my childhood.

He worked for Wonka. I know. I know. But we didn't know that. It was a plot twist I didn't see. I just thought he was... It's with an S. Oh, that's going to kill me because I've only seen that video, you know, a million times.

Smiggle, smigle, smidge. Slug worth. Slug worth. There we go. So close. I was going to the Googler. I mean, it was an S. Well, it was an S.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would have got there. We solved the crossword together. Yeah, I would have got there. Jamie gave us the hand motions. I've got a hard stop. Wrap it up, y'all. Right?

Oh, yeah, yeah. have got there. Jamie gave us the hand motions. I've got a hard stop. Wrap it up y'all. Right. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So transitioning to our hot topic today, all things disconnecting from work. Very, very timely topic. We're seeing all of this in the news. So what does that mean to you all? Right. Get us someone kick us off here. Ashley, you wanna kick us off? Well, you're seeing it because the law, so lawyer means solicitor listening, I'm a lawyer as well as an HR. But so what you're seeing is potential legal bills.

So in California in the US, a law about the right to disconnect. And this isn't a new thing. There've been laws in a number of countries around the world, Belgium, France, Canada, Australia. And what these laws mean a lot is it's a limit on how employers can contact you after work or a little bit related, your obligation to respond to employer communication. So not always preventing your employer from retrap, the employees don't have to. It's really literally about creating laws about work-life balance. And so in California, the law that at this point when we're recording this, we'll see

if it's been changed slightly and just even if in a few weeks, but is that it requires an employer and employee to agree in writing about that your non-working hours. And this is all employees, hourly salaried, exempt, non-exempt. The only caveat is unionized employees who are generally always carved out of employment laws because those have to be negotiated with the union. But that you have to agree on non-working hours. And so when you're in non-working hours, whatever that says in your offer letter, then your employer can contact you about scheduling or emergencies, which is defined, but that

you're not obligated to respond at aside from that. And so these what you're seeing in these laws is really this crystallizing of the idea that you need disconnection from work. I mean, I've been practicing this for years. Like, fuck you pay me. That's actually not true. That's not true. You pick me on a Saturday. I'll get that report to you in about an hour. We all know that about me. Of course. But it shouldn't be that way. No, you're right.

When you really think about it. And I have that same respect to my employees. I would never contact them after hours or on the weekend. Yes, but my dumb ass has slept at work before. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because I mean, what? Yeah. Like, I mean, you know, I look back on some of that and the just the exploitation. Right. Me just trying to, you know, be in the rat race, trying to succeed,

trying to keep up, trying to do whatever it takes to do that. And just how fricking cruel that was in so many instances. And like like why was no one there like to rescue me or help me or advocate or you know manage better you know like it's I mean really we should be compensated for all of that time when you think about it. Yeah and aside from even just compensation there's time I mean it's about what people want life to be like and also you may be used to things, but it may not be compensating for that time.

It may be having that absolute break. I mean, all the disconnection things you talk about is there's so many consulting law firms, those are where it is literally 24-7 expectations. And those aren't what I'm talking about. When I'm talking about like emergence, I mean, not what I mean as those aren't, those aren't jobs where 24 seven is actually needed. That is the custom and the expectation that people have set, especially in the US. But I know even in Australia,

where I talk about friends, I knew that worked in law firms, they worked, that was like one of the very few industries that seemed to work just as hard as people do in the US, meaning long hours. But like, if you're outside of emergencies, most of corporate, you may feel like something is very important and getting this frenzy. But really, everyone could live with having more of a break and people can wait a little bit longer on things. And it is so unhealthy.

And sometimes you see people that will say, well, it's great, I'll leave at four or five and then I'm with my family, especially if they have young kids, but it's not just for parents, it's for caregivers of older relatives, but it's altogether, people say, oh, but I'm off from four to seven or maybe seven to 10, I'm putting the kids to bed.

And then I always, but I'm always opening up the laptop and doing that. And I've lived that life where I open up the laptop for years, I would open up my laptop at 10. Sometimes I would work until one, 1.30 in the morning so that I could bill hours and get a bonus and do these things, especially in a law firm environment. But when I switched, I went in-house, meaning I worked for a company, and I took a pay cut, about 20% pay cut.

But in my boss, who was a man, stay-at-home wife, kids had childcare, he had said, part of your compensation is a working schedule that is eight to five, and you're not expected to work outside of those hours. And he meant it, and that's my life. I, to this day, my friends knew I was so happy in that job. I was productive. Sunday nights, I'd be happy. I was a completely different person than I've been previously to the person I was, to my family, my friends, how I slept.

And so I think people get caught up in that, but it's not the way it has to be. And then when you take a break for that and live life, I think people can realize life is a lot sweeter when you're not having a fear of being tethered to your phone or device. Yeah. I think what's frustrating about that is that you can have a manager like the one you're talking about, that's very transparent and very, you know, here it is, right?

And then you can go from that person that's, let's say, supportive, and in the same business, you have your colleague that can sit right next to you with a different manager having a completely different experience, you know what I mean? Which is a lot of why, hey, we need to help, air quotes, with the law, right? We need to put some running rules down. We need to say, this is the expectation. But how do you overcome hundreds of years of culture? How do you overcome just, this is your society, right?

This is how we roll. I mean, it's a society, right? Like this is like how we roll, you know? I mean, it's a lot, right? Especially if some of this legislation, these new rules, these laws, the penalties for employers are laughable. I mean, yeah, it's like, if you have a pattern of violations, it's a hundred dollar fine. I can literally hear the CEOs better like, oh, yeah, okay. But I think we've seen this shift since the pandemic, right? Because a lot of us went from in office where we left at five, not that necessarily we might have left at five and not taken our laptop, not that, but it's different because we truly are tethered, right? We're at home. We have our laptop. not that, but it's different because we truly are tethered, right?

We're at home. We have our laptop. We have our phone. Like my phone yesterday was going off because my team's was going off, right? Like I have Teams and Outlook on my phone. And so we're constantly available. And, you know, we've almost created this with the pandemic, that our bosses, or they expect us to be available. Because I could easily just teams her. It's like text messaging her, like, hey. We're able to bring you HR besties thanks to sponsors like Yahoo Finance. I personally use Yahoo Finance.

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would go and they like maybe they'd call in to work once. But like we would be out on the beach, we'd be doing. Oh, yeah, we'd be going to play. I mean, my memories of vacation growing up, I would never not once tell you, oh, I thought about my parents working. If you were to ask me, tell me about some of your vacation memories. I have some great memories, but I'll tell you what sticks out in my mind. I remember being on a vacation, checking my email and thinking I really fucked something up. And I remember standing outside this restaurant and my husband saying, why did you check your email? Now I can tell this is you're completely out of your head on this. And that was in the pit of my stomach. And I think about those things. There were times I'd sit at the beach because a boss wanted a PowerPoint presentation for a free seminar

that I'd spent the day working on. And so I think a lot of people, when they think about vacation, and even as a business owner now, I don't really work on urgent things. I work on like broader manager training, but I still have this like very innate fear of going on vacation worried that I'm going to be stressed out about something with business that I have to work really hard to overcome. And I think a lot of employees are like that and it doesn't serve people's interests, but it doesn't serve businesses interests either or employers. It doesn't. That actually made me really sad when you said that, because that's so true even me. I remember two years ago, we went to the beach during the summer, and I missed almost an

entire day because I had to run payroll. And yes, was I the dumbass who had booked my vacation during a payroll week? I sure did. I booked it before I was working at this job, so I didn't know. There was an issue with payroll, essentially, and someone was transferring departments, and it was a huge ordeal. I missed an entire day with my kids because I was so concerned with payroll. And as I should be, I'm in charge of making sure everyone gets paid that Friday or whatever it is. And that was my sole responsibility, but I didn't have

anyone that I could train. And we should encourage everyone to cross-train and learn and one, knowledge is power. But then it creates situations like this, right? Like I could have been like, hey, you run payroll this week, I'm at the beach. If you need anything though, please feel free to call me. As opposed to me losing an entire day. And I will say my employer was very, very gracious about it. They felt terrible.

I didn't use a PTO day for that day. But you didn't take time off. So you shouldn't have. And having that, I mean, Lee, I'm curious. Like a lot of times I look to you and be like, God, you have really good boundaries and things. You taking that time and things like that, have you fallen into traps of like getting worked up or have you been able to disconnect

and how are you able to do that effectively if so? Yeah, I'll tell you, you know, later in my life, later in my career, I really started creating awesome boundaries. My brand is really about toxic workplaces and coaching on that. And I've had a lot of really traumatic experiences in the workplace, partly because of the type of work that I do,

within HR and the types of organizations and places that I've worked. So for me, after going through a lot of that shit, and it just wearing on you, and then we come up to the pandemic, and we come up, me to like losses of family members and whatnot, a lot of death, unfortunately. It really starts putting things in perspective.

And that's where I just drew a hard line. I just didn't give a fuck anymore about going above and beyond. I go level and near, right? You know, because it's like, what else do I have to prove? And that's a place of privilege, right, where I worked my ass off so much to where, hey, I have maybe the means to be able to do that now at this point. But I really did step back to say, hey, my priorities have shifted in my life, and this is what they are now.

And that's probably my key, one of my key pieces of advice and what I love to coach people on is to really be introspective on what are your priorities now? Because people kind of get in this hamster wheel, and they just keep going. But it's very important to ask yourself, at this point in my life and who I am today, not yesterday or tomorrow, what's important to me now? Is it flexibility?

Is it compensation? Is it geography? Is it the promotion? Is it the title? Is it this learning? Is it this degree? What is it? And put that label on it because then that helps you assess whether the role you are in is actually serving you today. And let's get honest about it because if it's not, if you want flexibility and your ass is tethered or whatever, you know, they all go, you know, yin and yang, then maybe it's time to make a move. Like maybe it's time to really start, you know, getting real, because we have this one life and this time is precious. So I had to go through a lot of bullshit to actually get to a point where I put those

boundaries in and I've lost jobs because of it. Yeah. You know, I've lost, I've been fired because because you know, oh, well, we just expect our executives to always be on how dare you only send on average, you know, 12 emails a day or whatever. Well, I'm in meetings back to back. Yeah. Why the fuck would I make something discoverable? But anyways, like that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. I'm actually with the people doing my job. I'm doing my job. No. I know, because that's literally the stupidest thing I've ever heard. I'm actually with the people doing my job, traveling. Yeah, I'm doing my job, thanks.

Stay in your life. No, I mean, that's so real, you know? And that's so disgusting. But from another quick advice perspective, for me and what I tell myself, and it's just advice from a previous mentor, is that whatever I'm doing in that moment, I'm going to be the best at doing it. So if I'm out with friends, I want to be the best friends. You know what I mean? I don't do phones during meals, at dinners, and stuff like that.

I try to be in the moment as much as possible. I don't do step outs. I really try and just be in that moment. If I'm doing a family thing, I'm with the family. If I'm doing this thing, I'm here. You know what I mean? I really don't blend or do integration anymore, because it's not If I'm doing a family thing, I'm with the family. If I'm doing this thing, I'm here. You know what I mean? I really don't blend or do integration anymore because it just did not work for me. I saw that I was just washing myself out. So if you see that, if that

kind of resonates with you, think about, maybe I have to compartmentalize. And so I love the concept of compartmentalization because it helps me be an overachiever in whatever it is I'm doing. Because I think, God, if this person is giving me the privilege of their intention, I should honor that back. That's how I really look at that, right? Because really attention is the number one commodity, the time we spend, you know? So I like that. Yeah. I think it's a very good point as well for leaders when you're at things like lunches with your teams, events with your teams. Think of times, I can think of times when leaders didn't show up, oh, they're so busy.

That shadow that you cast and you feel like it's because you're busy, but if you're not stopping and being fully present and doing that and you're not showing those signals of showing your team and telling people, phones down, like we're here, phones down, and we'll tell people, if anybody has an issue with that, you come to me. And I will talk to them and explain. And if you have a leader that does those things and gives you their attention,

that is a leader that I guarantee you will not only, people will respect, but will get better. Yeah. I love that. Respect, civility, right? Sometimes that is missing so much there. But I really do like honor that people honor me with themselves.

Yeah. That's what memories are made. That's what life is. I mean, like it sounds like, I mean, you listen like, like you stop and you think about those. And it's, it's, I mean, it really, it really, I think about some of those times when I got really upset on vacation, it's always about work things. It's always about work things. It's always about work things. And I think, what a freaking waste.

But the thing you can do is change that. And so the sooner you can change that in your life and encourage your teams to do that, you are all so better for it. That is what life is. Because people will never forget how you made them feel. Yeah, my angel, I love that quote. It's so true, right? So true.

I mean, damn, it is, oh, you know, so you have to remember that like in your life and with your teams and with your families and with your friends. And it's the same because we did, we do get kind of like immune to the presence of those closest to us. Those are the people we abuse the most. Oh, yeah, sure. You know, because we know they take our shit. My kids know that for damn sure.

Because we know they take our shit. My kids abuse me. But ironically, sadly, whatever, joyfully, those are the people you should be showing up the most for, right? It's the opposite. You know what I mean? We take advantage of that all the time, you know, but that is so, that's your people, man.

That's your deathbed crew. Yeah. On that note, anything now that we're all about to die. We are getting older. I know. Anything else on disconnecting from the workplace? Any other pro tips on doing that? I just like to say shout out to the states on continuing that momentum, white police. Because I've always worked in global teams and I've been jealous AF with pretty much anyone outside of this country. And all my travels, I've been very blessed and, you know, I've had a really awesome career from a work travel perspective. And they literally laugh at us. They literally ask me, they're like, oh, there, there, there. That's one of my pro tips. Why do you want to die sooner?

For Australia, as you know. But when you're in a global organization, or even if not, and you have someone that you can talk to your team about how people work differently, and have sessions, and have someone talk literally and be like, how do you do this? Because that's a question, like before I lived abroad in the work culture, I mean, I remember being like, how do people, and so that people will explain to you how they do it,

and how there are common expectations, and the work still gets done, but it's done on more reasonable schedules. And so asking people how you do that, that is one of the best sessions that you can have for your team and trying to think about what can we adopt in our team. People be like, we'll take off August and January. Shut up, Brance. And learning, like lift others up rather than just be like, well, this is the American way.

Exactly. Let's not be staunch. Let's do some best practice sharing. I love that. Gosh, I love that. Oh, all righty. Well, I'm pro-disconnection myself. Let's see. Let's see. Let's see. And to that point, we're about to disconnect from this meeting here. So we better do our questions and comments. What do we have for questions and comments today? Jay? I see you looking at something over there, Jamie. Jamie's connected right now. I know she's connected. She's not giving us, she's about to give us some good content.

Well, you know the number one cause for work stress, right? It's giving a shit. That is amazing. So maybe give less shits? I know. Yeah, yeah. Give less shits? I know. Yeah, yeah. Give less shits. I like that.

Okay. It's poetic. That's what I love most about it. I have a comment, and this is for managers, is to recognize that people on your team will all have very different unique career quilts, different seasons of their life, and what they care about in the moment, whether it is compensation or having time or having energy and effort. Talking to your team members and understanding what drives them is really important. But as you're working with them, thinking about what you can drive to, nobody's season

of life should be the pay your due season. People should not feel compelled to go through misery or exhaustion or things just because you did. Because I know I've gone through those things and my goal is then not to show how I've survived and how I can be tougher. I appreciate things in my life more, but it should not have taken the bullshit that I had to go through and that a lot of people have to go through from sacrificing aspects of my personal life that I, looking back, did not want to sacrifice. So pay your dues season is never on our calendar.

Yeah, mm-hmm. Love that, absolutely love that. If you're a leader, your goal should be to ensure there's no paying of dues. Just learning and living and appreciation. Geez, I love that. I love that. That kind of got me sidetracked a little bit

for my question or comment. I have to remember now, did I have a question or did I have a comment? I think I have a question and not a comment, if I may. Your brain's trying to stay in its lane. I know. I've got a noodle on it for a second. But I'm curious, what is your top? I don't even know if this is like I'm saying this question right here. In my mind, it makes sense. So surely it doesn't make sense to anybody else. What is your top? I don't even know if this is like I'm saying this question right here.

In my mind it makes sense, so surely it doesn't make sense to anybody else. But you know, what is that number one boundary for you with the workplace? Like give me an example maybe of just your healthy boundaries. You could just go general there. Have you created any Jamie? I'm looking at you. Jamie Dillion I think for me is flexibility. And I'm always saying that to my managers, like the leaders of the company that I'm at,

is remember to be flexible because we have lives outside of work. And it's something that I'm shocked still to this day that there aren't managers that are flexible. Like, so-and-so has to leave at three to go get their kid because this one reason, okay, well, do they do it every day? Well, no. So why is one day a big deal that so and so goes picks up there? And it's so it's reminding that we all have lives outside of work and we can be flexible with with that. And so that's something I I'm lucky that that is the boundary I set. Like I am going to go to my children's functions. I don't give a shit if it's in the middle of the day. I'm going to go to field

day. I'm going to take a PTO day to go to their field trips if I can. And so that's always been important to me is just having having a company with the flexibility. Love that. Everything else though is blurred lines for me. Yeah, right. You can exploit Jamie everywhere else. That Robin Thicke song. Yeah. That's the one that he stole from Robin Gay. Yeah, Robin Gay, right?

No. Oh, Marvin Gay. Marvin Gay, there we go, there we go. I'll have mine just be a simple one. That's it's more of a pet, so boundary, give context when you're reaching out to somebody. And I guess an expectation that they may not be able to respond instantaneously to Jamie's

point. But the prime example of a don't is call me thanks, especially if it's THX, where you just send someone, send someone an email with that. Or not even thanks, just call me. Call me and that, and that puts me in the grip. It like is completely stressful because that's no thank you. That's it. I'm about to get fired.

Yeah. You know, what's interesting for me is that one of the things I do when I start a job is that I share in that first conversation how I like to be communicated to and with and I ask them how they like to be communicated to and with. And I asked them how they like to be communicated to and with. And so one of my things is I don't do well just being called, just unannounced. Oh, like cold calling? I can't.

You've done that to me twice. And I have counted. She's pointing. No, three times I'm pointing at Ashley. But I'm not throwing you out because it's friends. It's not work. You know what I'm saying? But I'm not throwing you, I mean, because it's friends, it's not work. You know what I'm saying? But I'm just... No, but listen to why. She will never call you again, no.

No, I don't. We didn't have an informational meeting. We didn't. We didn't have an informational meeting. But we didn't. But the most tragic events of my life have happened through a phone call. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's... So that's a trigger for you.

Like where I want to cry. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's that's a trigger for you. Like where I want to cry. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So for me, that is such a boundary. Yes. And I've had people make fun of that. And it's like, it's not because I'm a millennial like y'all laughing over. But it's not because I'm a little I know I just called them other shit. It's not because I'm a millennial. It's not because of this. It's because just PTSD. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it's like, you don't want to get that dark in a conversation with like your boss

on the first day. So it's like, you have to be like, hey, by the way, just even a quick text to let me know so I don't have to take a Xanax. That would be fantastic if you need to call me. I just really, really like texts and I really like emails so I can control my workload in the day instead of, hey, when you call me, literally I jump out of my seat and I start crying. Like I'm thinking something tragic has happened and it's like, Oh, it like freaks me out like big time. You know what I mean?

But that's what I was pointing at Jamie. Yeah, I was pointing at Jamie. But you will see, I will never call you. But that's why it's like, I'm not being, uh, I, you know, you just automatically, I don't want to give them trauma. Right. You know what I'm saying? Like it's just so people are so different. Here's an example of it. Right. It's just it's what it is. You know, but oh, good times. Anyways, good trauma. Good trauma times. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, gosh. Anything else, Dan? I think we covered all of our Qs and Cs today. Yeah. No. And then some. Yeah. I think we did.

Oh, I think we should officially disconnect from this meeting about disconnection. What do we say? For sure. For sure. Let's call it a day. Thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate you.