I Don't Know About That - Animation

Episode Date: July 6, 2021

In this episode, the team discusses animation with Oscar-nominated filmmaker and Character Design Supervisor at Netflix, Andrew Chesworth. Follow Andrew on Instagram @Andrew_Chesworth and on Twitter @A_Chesworth . To support Andrew's passion project, go to https://www.patreon.com/bravelocomotive Go to JimJefferies.com to buy tickets to Jim's upcoming tour, The Moist Tour.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The holidays aren't sleigh bells and mistletoe. They're also airports, shopping malls, and dining tables crowded with people, some you're glad to see only once a year. Give yourself the ultimate gift of a stress-free holiday with NextEvo Naturals fast-absorbing CBD products. NextEvo's stress CBD complex gummies and clinically proven to have four times better absorption than the standard CBD. No other CBD brand can promise that. I had some people over for the holidays,

bloody family and friends, which is normally pretty stressful, but I popped some Nextivo CBD gummies and before that, I just started to like the people. I started to like them. They go totally stress-free. Nexto smart absorb technology delivers cbd to your system in as little as 10 minutes unlike other cbd brands regular cbd oil works more slowly because of how our bodies process oil-based ingredients compared to water-soluble supplements and regular cbd only activates two to ten percent absorption so over 90 of what you're taking goes to the waste. Nothing. Smart Zorb upgrades CBD's natural absorbent power.

It's scientifically formulated to deliver more CBD fast. The only brand clinically proven to deliver 30 times better absorption in the first 30 minutes. Help fight holiday stress with NextEvo's natural stress CBD complex gummy featuring ashwagandha. Ashwagandha. Clinically proven to reduce stress by 70%. Ashwagandha.

And CBD worked together to target the source of rising stress hormones like cortisol. Next Evo is the only brand that combines a natural patented whole plant ashwagandha that's eight times more powerful than regular ashwagandha. Believe me, than regular ashwagandha, believe me, than regular ashwagandha, and they're 100% US hemp-driven, smart-sorbed CBD with four times absorption than standard CBD.

That's wild. Get smarter CBD from NextEvo Naturals and get up to 25% off subscription orders of $40 or more at nextevo.com slash podcast. Promo code IDK. That's N-E-X-T-E-V-O dot com slash podcast promo code IDK. aubergine, eggplant, courgette, the one that Americans call it. Why are they called different things?

You might find out. And I don't know about that with Jim Jefferies. I don't know any of those. I know eggplant. Aubergine and eggplant are the same thing. I know a bit of stick. And courgette and zucchini. We call them zucchinis. Oh, no, they call them courgettes.

We call them zucchinis. You call them zucchinis. Who's they? The Brits and Australians call them zucchinis. You guys are weird. No, we call them courgettes. No, the British call them courgettes. I think Australia calls them zucchinis.

It's been so long. You know which one, you guys, doesn't make sense to me in Australia? It's capsicum. Capsicum. And bell peppers. Yeah, bell peppers. Because pepper means hot. Yeah, but you shorten everything in Australia.

You make a little I or an E or a Y. Yeah, why wouldn't it be cappies? Yeah, you've got to get yourself a cappy, man. On your schnitzel. Get a cappy. Get a cappy with your zookies and your eggies, eggie plants. Zibbity-doo-dah. Yeah, no.

So everyone, the Moist Tour. The Moist Tour is coming. The Moist Tour. A lot of people have been asking why did I call it the Moist Tour because I think that tour names are stupid and I thought, you know, you say the word cunt so much in your career that it's lost all meaning. And I Googled what's the most offensive word in the English language? Number one, moist.

And you can put it on a poster. So I'll put it on there. More than motherfucker. Yeah, yeah. It's the number one word that upsets people. Now, if you don't like the word moist, don't worry about it. I don't have any jokes regarding the word moist. I'm not going to say the word moist.

There's a small chance there will be a backdrop that says the word moist in large letters. A small or a large chance? A small chance is a large backdrop. You shouldn't even have the words. You should just have like a wet towel, like a moist. Yeah, I'm just going to have all of the chairs are lightly soaked. Yeah, the background is going to be cake and like damp towels

and women who slightly like me. Yeah, and when they're walking into the theater, it'll like squish a little. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The whole place is going to feel like New Orleans a year after Hurricane Katrina. To any of our people out there, Hurricane Katrina was a terrible, in Hurricane Katrina. I any of our people out there, Hurricane Katrina was a terrible...

I know it was New Orleans. Hurricane Katrina was the thing that... Sorry about what happened. It hit Florida as well, just so you know. Oh, it hit Florida? Yeah. So to all the people in New Orleans, sorry what happened.

What do you got for us, Jack? We're going to revisit the game You Don't Know Jack. Oh, yeah. Where're going to revisit the game, You Don't Know Jack. Ba-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Where I ask personal questions about myself to see if anybody knows anything about me. Oh! You don't know Jack. Last time

I think I got a little bit too specific, so I went a little broader this time. Were you sad about how little we knew about you? Yes. Yeah, but you can't ask us the first place you got drunk. He's like, what was my birth weight? And we're like, I don't know. I don't know what your birth weight is. I don't know what my birth weight is. What was your birth weight?

Yeah, yeah. All right, so our three categories today. First one is who said it, which were insults that said to me. And you guys have to pick who said it. Everyone in the schoolyard. We're not there yet. Everyone at work. And then injuries.

Wait, wait, wait. Is this the same board? It looks a little jankier. It's the same board, just different categories. Okay, okay, okay. Is this the same board? It looks a little jankier. It's the same board, just different categories. Okay, okay, okay. And then the last one are drink orders. Drink orders. These are orders of drinks?

You have the floor. Wait, wait. What are drink orders? Before we talk about this, you'll know when the questions come. Okay, great. Jack had a big night out this week, and he said, because I was going to do a show, and sometimes Jack comes along to my shows,

and he goes, I can't go out. I've got a big night out. Now, a young man of his age, you'd think you'd be going where the pussy is. Or you'd be hanging out with your friends in some type of rock club, listening to some tunes, seeing a band or something like that. Close to that. But Jack and his friends all go in a group to the Universal City Walk Margaritaville. It just reopened?

Oh, yeah. They've been waiting. They've been waiting. We told the waiter that and he gave us a discount. It was awesome. They give you a blender of drinks, he tells me. Blender of drinks. On Sunday at the barbecue, I go, how was Margaritaville? He goes, good, we got so drunk. He goes, good, we got so drunk. And he's like,

he's like, I'm like, is there any women there? Not my age. They're a lot of parenthoods. They're all retired. Old, old parenthoods. Yeah, but even if you went to one that was sort of like downtown or something like that, why don't Universal CityWalkers got to be just-

I don't think there's young women hanging at Margaritaville. I know, but just couples in Harry Potter outfits. I must say, there was an hour wait for Margaritaville. You went to Margaritaville and waited an hour for it? Universal CityWalking kills so much time there. I'll tell you something that women like. I don't know why they like it, but they love it. If you can jump a queue and get into a restaurant quicker

or get into a nightclub when everyone's lined up and that's at a nice place. If you can't jump the queue at Margaritaville. I was able to get us in 20 minutes earlier, but it was a party of 12, so it was difficult. Oh, no, no. That's good. How did you get you in 20 minutes earlier, but it was a party of 12, so it was difficult. Oh, no, no, that's good. How did you get you in 20 minutes?

Did you tell him you got on this podcast? I came back earlier, like 20 minutes early, and they're like, oh, is this the 12th party? I go, yeah, all right, you guys can come. Because we were working for NBC on the NBC pilot, that never happened in the end, but, you know, all good. NBC were very nice to us while we were there and everything. NBC gave me and Jack, we had on-site passes.

Proper badges. We had parking things that go on your resume that were all sparkly and embossed and all that type of stuff. They had holograms on them to make sure they weren't fake. And Jack texts me when he gets to Margaritaville, and this was the text. Yeah, those parking passes no longer work. Found out the hard way.

Because you could get free employee parking at the theme work. Found out the hard way. Because you can get free employee parking at the theme park. But we went in, I was like, I don't know. And then the entrance looked wrong. I was like, this is going to be bad. It doesn't work. And then there's a line of employees trying to get to work.

And luckily, a guy who operates the Jurassic World ride came up behind us and goes, what's wrong, guys? He goes, the pass isn't working. He goes, no worries, and buzzes us in. So we still got in for free. Okay, so you don't know Jack. Let's play this game here. That was a good story.

The answer is Margaritaville. Who said it for 600? Who said it for 600? Okay, who said, I personally liked when you looked like a lesbian? Kelly. Me. That's correct. I forgot we have to hang.

That's 600 points for you. We have to buzz in by banging the table? Okay. Okay. Is that how we buzz in? I'm going to scare Arnie the whole time. I'm going to go drink orders for 600. What drink does Jack drink often that always makes him have diarrhea?

What is milk? Yes. Jim, you have the floor. I'm going to go injuries for 600. Injuries for 600. Are you keeping score of how much money we're over? You guys need to remember. I got $400.

I'm buzzing in. I'm not trying to bang the table. All of Arnie's training is up the window. That's okay. You buzzed in. What broke? I thought this was who. What broke Jack's nose in second grade?

His confidence. Nope. I'm not the answer. All the other kids. No. I'm not the answer. I'm not the answer. All the other kids. No. No. No. No.

His mother. No. Anybody else? Pedophile's dick. No. No. None of these happen. You guys are losing all your money.

You guys spent like negative a million at this point. That's why I'm not guessing. It was a baseball. A baseball. A baseball. A pedophile's dick. Poor Jack. The only thing you should have done

is you should have waited for the who said it category to say what we say now. Like, number 400 should be like, who said a pedophile's dick broke my neck? That's why we do this game. We'll pull all the insults from this

and put it back in. Okay. I stole Jim's board. Jim stole his board. I don't know how many points you've lost at this point. I stole Jim's board. Jim stole his board. I don't know how many points you've lost at this point. I'm minus a lot. He's negative 600.

I had some good answers though. I would go injuries for 600. We just did that one. Injuries for 400. Okay. Injuries for 400. Oh, daily double. Okay.

I'm going to gamble it all. I'm going to gamble it all. Okay. Gamble it all. You don't have anything. You're negative. I'm going to knock $2,000. Okay.

Okay. Why did Jack have to have a colonoscopy at 12? I like how these are your broader questions. The other ones were too specific. I've definitely mentioned this one a lot. I've mentioned this one a lot. Pedophile's dick. No. I think he swallowed a Lego.

He did call it a colonoscopy. No, no, no. So what happened? You had a colonoscopy. We're supposed to be answering no no so you would yeah I think Lego

is a good bet I think now I'm going to think premature hemorrhoids no Kelly did you have no no

it's a daily double it's only Jim can answer oh okay I had a parasite oh yeah I do remember that I almost died yeah I do remember you talking about that a lot I threw up for six months straight because of a parasite. Oh yeah, I do remember that. I almost died. I do remember you talking about that a lot.

I threw up for six months straight because of a parasite. You mentioned that at least 4,000 times. Also, it's the most company he's ever had. Yeah. Well, we keep getting the questions wrong, but Jim, I guess, still gets to keep going. Who said, for $200?

Okay. Who said, Jack hasn't gained any knowledge from working on the show. The only thing he's gained is weight. That would be me. Sounds like Jim. That's correct. You got it. I don't remember.

You got to read. Doesn't that have to be in the form of a question? Oh, yeah. Who is Jim? Being what is me. Who is me? Correct. Who am I?

All right, Jim, you have the board. I'm guessing I'm $400. I don't remember saying that to Jack. I just knew it was more frightening. Yeah, it definitely sounds like something you said. I remember you said it. Who said it? 600.

400. Who said it? 400. Ding, ding, ding. Jim. Where's Forrest? Where's Forrest? I dinged it already.

Forrest, ding, ding, Forrest. It's me. That's correct. Forrest always says everyone hates you. Yeah, yeah. I say that to everyone now. I say that to everyone. If Forrest says something nasty and there? It's me. That's correct. Forrest always says everyone hates you. Yeah, yeah. I say that to everyone now. I say that to everyone. If Forrest is something nasty and there's no one in the room to hear it, does it really

make a sound? Yes. Okay, so we have Forrest, you have the board. There's injuries for 200 and drink orders for 200. Drink orders for 400. Drink orders for 400. For 200? 200, yeah.

Yeah, 400. 400. Okay, here we go. What's Jack's go-to alcohol? Ding, ding, ding. Screwdriver. Okay. Hands on a toilet.

Screwdriver. That's correct. I was going to say margarita, but Kelly gave it to me. That's your fault. But? Screwdriver. That's incorrect. I was going to say margarita, but Kelly gave it to me. I didn't want to do ding. I thought we were just going to say it out. I like a screwdriver, too. Drink orders for $200. Okay, drink orders for $200.

What's Jack's Starbucks order? Puppuccino. What's a puppuccino? Just whipped cream and a cake. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Kite pop. No. Ding.

Jack doesn't drink Starbucks. Hot chocolate. Ding. Hot chocolate and screwdrivers. Yeah, that's basically what I meant. That's Jack doesn't drink coffee. Hot chocolate and screwdrivers. There's only one left, right?

Only one left. I guess it goes to Forrest. Do you want to do injuries for 200? Yeah, sure. Okay, great. How did Jack accidentally slit his wrist when he was three? Ding. Ding.

It wasn't an accident. Depressed. Oh, you over-dinged his ding. Same answer. Pedophile's dick. No. No pedophile's dick involved. I was trying to get a VHS out of a VHS case and slit my wrist

by accident. What the fuck? You cut your wrist on a blockbuster fucking case and you didn't make the documentary? Yeah, the paramedics game was horrible. The paramedics game. And then they showed up and then your mother went, he did rewind

it though. He was such a good boy. This makes us to the final jack off. This is where you can wager all the money pretty much this is whoever gets this one right I'd like to go all in there you're going to have some time to think okay

because right after this podcast I'm giving my haircut so you guys this is your last chance to have your greatest Dave Grohl insult and so I'll give you some time to think Luis is going to help me judge who the winner is oh okay and so I'll give you some time to think. Luis is going to describe Dave Grohl to the police. Okay, good, good, good.

Luis, did you like that one? Yeah, it was pretty good. Pretty good. I quite enjoyed that. Forrest? Dave Grohl hates you. I like Kelly ones. I'm just figuring it out.

It's very good. Because the sketch drugs are never good. Luis, what did you think of that one? I mean, I enjoyed it, but, you think of that one? I mean, I enjoyed it, but you know, Kelly's up top. Kelly's up top.

If Dave Grohl thought he looked like you, he'd cut himself with a video cut. Luis? Ah, shit. That's a good one. These are good. These are good.

Do we have to have a Dave Grohl off? Is that a thing? It is now. Vote in the comments. Vote in the comments. I know. We have to get to the ads.

Okay. We'll get to ads. Kelly wins. Time for ads. Honey. Do, do, do, do. We're going shopping. Here we are.

It's honey. Honey. I use the honey app. They also support, they sponsor the Clippers. So I like the Clippers. But the honey app, it's good. You put it on your phone. We all shop online.

Right? All of us, except for my dad, who we all know doesn't shop online. And we've all seen that promo code field taunt us at checkout. But thanks to Honey, manually searching for coupon codes is a thing of the past. Honey is the free shopping tool that scours the internet for promo codes and applies the best one and finds it for your car. Honey supports over 300 stores or something. 30,000 stores.

30,000 stores online. They range from sites that have tech and gaming products to popular fashion brands and even food delivery. But across promotion, maybe Honey will work with it. Who knows? Imagine you're shopping at one of your favourite sites and then check out. The Honey button drops. Boom.

All you have to do is click apply coupons. You apply coupons. Wait a few seconds and Honey searches all the coupons to find the best one for that site. If Honey has a working coupon, you'll just watch the prices drop. You don't have to do anything else. Honey has saved me a lot of money. I buy cat food with it. I buy me cat food and the honey coupon comes down.

Boom, discounts. If you don't already have honey, you could be straight up missing out on savings and it's literally free to install in seconds. See, normally I say, go and put this code in and all that type of stuff, you know, and you'll get the savings. You'll get the savings just by getting Honey. But there is a code and by getting it, you'll be supporting this podcast because I never recommend

anything that I don't use myself. Get Honey for free at joinhoney.com slash idk. That's joinhoney.com slash idk. Thank you, you honey thank you for supporting the podcast this summer it's been easier than ever to drop our personal care routines but with your personalized group personalized grooming kit from hawthorne it's easy to stay on track hawthorne is a premier grooming brand that tailors your personal care routine to your unique profile. First, you take the quiz. Not a hard quiz. Don't worry. I don't like taking quizzes. You always find out. Am I a Monica or a Rachel? Turns out I'm a Phoebe. So you take the quiz. They ask you things like, what type of skin I have. How often do I shave? It was really simple. Girly and once a week.

At the end, I got an essential bundle with all the products tailored to my body type and lifestyle. The products I got included deodorant, lotion, the chapstick. The lotion was fantastic. I'm not much of a chapstick guy. I feel like my lips become dependent, but other people like them. But the lotion I'm not much of a chapstick guy. I feel like my lips become dependent, but other people like them. But the lotion I'm using every day. Hawthorne takes the risk out of shopping for

personal care by giving you free shipping of your orders and returns. With their subscription options personalized to your usage, Hawthorne makes sure you never run out of your essentials. Life is complicated. Hawthorne keeps it simple with a short study-back quiz that matches you with your perfect grooming kit. Looking at your best has never been easier. Try Hawthorne's quiz today and get started on your personal self-care routine by going to hawthorne.com, hawthne.co oh there's no com hawthorne.co

and use the promo code idk to get 10% off your first IDK. Hawthorne. Dot C-O. Use promo code IDK. All right. Now let's introduce our guest, Andrew Chesworth. And now it's time to play. Yes, though. Yes, though. Yes, though. Yes, though. Judging a book by its cover.

G'day, Andrew. Thanks for being on the podcast, mate. Now I'm going to guess what you do. It's the most undescript room I have ever seen in my entire life. It's just a stripy wall and a bit of paper in the corner. So I'm going to say that you're an expert at staples and you're in middle management. Yep.

Yep. Staples episode. Staples. All right. Not, not the actual, it's just staples. The store.

Just the store. Yeah. What's an aisle six, Jim? That's printers. He was confident as hell. The rest of it's paper. And then there's one aisle of actual staples.

Okay. That is not correct. Okay. So, Andrew. Ask him some questions. Andrew, I've been told that you went to school with Kelly, so I'm going to think that it's not something in the academic pursuits. Are you related to sport?

Is this a sporting thing that you do? No, but my brother is a physical therapist. Right. You should have physical therapist. That would be a real good podcast. Is it an intellectual endeavor? Yes. Is it about history?

Not really. There may be some history involved in the episode. We might ask you some history about the subject. No, I've been doing very good. There may be some history involved in the episode. We might ask you some history about the subject. About the subject. Yeah, maybe. Is it related to works of fiction?

Yes. Okay. Are you an expert in Superman? I know a little about Superman. That's not what this is about. Why did you guess Superman? Because I'd love to do an episode on Superman. Okay.

I love Superman. No an episode on Superman. Okay, write that down, Jack. Superman. I love Superman. No one could beat him. What Andrew is here to talk about today, you have been paid for, but it's not your main profession. Oh, you're a prostitute. You've been paid for sex? Yeah, well.

Some people in my profession would say possibly yes. Okay, so. You've been paid for this not too far in the past. And you'd like to do more of it. Oh, a rebate for getting solar panels. That's the only other paycheck I've had since I started here. So I've done a bit of acting. Sort of.

It's not my forte. In what genre? Musical, theaters, and opera. No, no, recently. Oh, that I've been paid for genre? Musical, theaters, and opera. No, no, recently. Oh, that I've been paid for recently? Yeah, last couple years. Acting that I've done the last couple years? Voice work.

Oh, voiceover. Animation. Animation. I'm in an animated film that I haven't seen yet called Extinct, which the trailer's out, but I haven't seen it. It keeps on saying it's coming out. I'm looking forward to that. Me and Ken Johns in it. Yeah.

I think like- Adam Devine. Adam Devine's in it, yeah. I forget who else is in it now, but a lot of big names. What's her name? Rachel Bloom. Rachel Bloom, the very funny lady out of Schitt's Creek and all the Christopher Getz.

Catherine O'Hara. Catherine O'Hara's in it. So you know what I mean? I love her. I'll have to see the movie. So you're going to know everything about animation now. I love saying I've acted with those people. I've never met them.

It's a voiceover. You do it in a room. So are you an animator, Andrew? Let me introduce him properly. Andrew Chesworth was nominated for an Oscar for the animated short film One Small Step. He was an animator for Disney on Frozen, Zootopia, Moana, Big Hero 6, Wreck-It Ralph, Feast, Get a Horse, Inner Workings, and Olaf's Frozen Adventure. Andrew taught fourth year character animation at CalArts.

He has been an instructor for the online CG animation school AnimSquad. I don't know if I'm saying that right. Since 2014. Currently, Andrew is employed at Netflix as a character design supervisor on My Dad the Bounty Hunter. And he is also directing and producing his passion project, The Brave Locomotive, through Patreon. If you can tell us a little bit more about that or anything else you'd like to tell us, then please feel free to. Yeah. Thank you so much for the intro and for having me here. Yeah. The Brave Locomotive is a short film I started before I was hired at Disney as a sort of audition piece to get into

Disney. And then they hired me before I finished it. And then when I was working on those feature films you listed, the job was so intensive that I shelved the project and said, maybe at a later date. And then when the pandemic hit, I thought this is as good a time as any to finish that film, but I've got new perspective on maybe how I would approach it and finish it differently. It's a shame you haven't worked on any huge movies though. Yeah. So my, my dad, the the bounty hunter is this an animated thing you're doing for netflix right now it is yeah i was invited to join the project by the showrunners

ever downing who won the oscar for a short called hair love last year and patrick harpin who was a story artist at sony who got to know ev and they jammed on this idea together and brought it to Netflix. And I was lucky enough to be a part of it just because they had seen my work on a film called Klaus. So they wanted some help developing the characters in 2D form before they get created in 3D. Oh yeah, he did Klaus too. We loved that. That's like the new Christmas movie from a couple of years ago on Netflix.

Yeah, yeah. 2019. It was a hand-drawn film. You know what sounds more like an animated film than My Dad the Bounty Hunter? Dog the Bounty Hunter. Yeah, it does. That sounds like an animated film. Dog the Bounty Hunter. It's a dog that's a bounty hunter. Yeah, exactly.

My Dog the Bounty Hunter. My Dog the Bounty Hunter, yeah. That's right. So pitch that. Get on that alright so we're going to ask Jim some questions

about animation and see what he knows or thinks he knows and then after that you're going to grade him 0 through 10 10 being the best on his accuracy

of this subject and then Kelly's going to grade him on confidence I'm going to grade him on etc if you score 21 through 30

total Winnie the Pooh 11 through 20 poo poo-poo platter. Zero through 10, pile of poo-poo. You don't want to do that. That was my child's favorite joke when he was a kid. Like, why was Piglet looking in the toilet? He was looking for poo.

You didn't put one of them as poo on a stick. Poo on a stick. That was going to be the name of the tour, everyone. We settled on moist. All right, we'll change 11 through 20 to poo on a stick. Poo on a stick. My agents just went, what? I went, poo on a stick. That was going to be the name of the tour, everyone. We settled on moist. All right, we'll change 11 through 20 to poo on a stick. Poo on a stick. My agents just went, what? I went, poo on a stick.

No, Jim really pitched. We were just talking about Jim's upcoming tour as a stand-up. And he actually did pitch poo on a stick as the name of the tour. It's a real thing. I just love that they were like, no, we don't want to do son of a carpenter. But moist is fine. I didn't call it son of a carpenter. They said it was too boring.

And then I went, oh, I got something for you. Poo on a stick. And they went, no. And then when they settled on moist and they went really no. And I go, let's sit with you for a while. And then I go, did you feel uncomfortable? They go, we did. I go, but did you remember it? And I go, we did. And they're so moist it is. All right. Okay. So animation, let's go. Just briefly, Jim, how does animation work? Well, what it is, is does animation work well what it is is you do like the old school animation is you do a drawing and then you do the drawing like stop motion animation you do the drawing slightly different and then you can flick through the book and it looks like the

characters are moving and then someone does a voiceover over the top and that's how you get an animated film up and running now they do most of it with computers i imagine but you still have to have people sketch out the drawings and how the characters are meant to look, et cetera. All right, what does the word animation mean? Animation, animation, animation. Animation would mean movement. Anime would mean, I would say, drawing movement.

What is persistence of vision? What does that refer to? That's when Stevie Wonder really tries. Yeah, that's good. I thought about this during the pandemic. The lady at the bank today, I went down to the bank today, and they still make you wear the mask, of course, at the bank. She's deaf, the poor thing.

Her whole life is lip reading, and I'm there going, I looked across to his check, and she's just just like i've been fucked over for a year it's not like we've all learned sign language to fucking coexist with these people and the pandemic it's really hurting the deaf more than anyone side note next question yeah maybe she doesn't even know that it's happening who would have told her all these people wearing masks uh All animation is made up of blank. Of magic. Okay. No, no, it's all made up of moving characters.

Next question. What are frames? Frames are the different still shots of all of these things that you can flick through. That one would say all animation is made up of. Yeah, made up of frames. Yeah, it's made up of frames. Even regular movie screens, there's frame, frame, frame, frame, frame, move through to make like we're

all looking. Photo, photo, photo, photo, photo, move very very quickly and so we all look like we're moving. And that's the same as animation, yeah. How many frames can be used per second? Oh, a lot. Forrest. I don't think you've ever said that in my name. Oh, let me tell you. Oh, let me tell you, tell Forrest. I don't think you've ever said my name like that. Oh, let me tell you.

Oh, let me tell you. Tell Forrest. Sit on my lap. You're going to be surprised how high this number is. 20. 20. Okay. Is there a range?

20 to 23. Okay. There are 12 basic principles of animation. Name two of them. The 12 principles of animation. Easy. There are 12 basic principles of animation. Name two of them. The 12 principles of animation. Easy. You got this. No problem.

The principle is always be kind. That's one. Treat people as you'd like to treat yourself. It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice. And it doesn't matter how many times you get knocked down, you have to get back up. Got it. But also the principles are that-

One word. Drawings back up. Got it. But also the principles are that- One word. Drawings. Yeah. Frames. Uh-huh. Movement. Uh-huh. You love movement right now in this episode.

Try to put a couple of songs in there. Uh-huh. Well, at Disney, kill off the mum or dad very early on. You kill off a parent as soon as you can. That's how you get the animation up and running. Talking animals. If the animals talk, the humans don't talk quite the same. If the people talk, the animals don't.

These are the principles of animation. Dead parents. We only need two. We only need two. How does rigged animation different from traditional? Rigged animation is different. Oh, that's like the ones like Who Framed Roger Rabbit, where you have animation playing with regular folk.

Name some examples of 2D animation. Oh, yeah, 2D. Easy. Pinocchio. Easy. Snow White. 3D. You got a couple 3D ones.

3D. Toy Story. Fucking The Incredibles. Who was the first famous animated character? When was it? The most famous one. Earliest. Who was the first famous animated character? When was it? The most famous one. Earliest. Who was the first?

First famous. Earliest. It'd be a steamboat. Willie. Oh, no, it'd be the one before that that had the long ears that all the hipsters wear. Had the long ears? Yeah, no, there's another one that's like Mickey Mouse,

but he's like, he's something rabbit. He's a fucking shonky rabbit or whatever his name is okay many cartoon characters only have four fingers yeah why because putting five fingers on an animated character looks fucking weird you ever see when they do it they're too many danglies and it's just for um dangles yeah too many dangles like the simpsons the simpsons are four fingered animals and the thumb so three fingers and a thumb, right? But it just looks for perspective or just for how it looks. It's just a visual thing.

Okay, a couple more. We'll skip. No, we'll do that. What is stop motion? Stop motion is not a drawn animation, but it's when you get like a plasticine thing and you move the arm a little bit, take a photo, move the arm a little bit, take a photo.

And that's things like all those Rankin-Bass Christmas specials and stuff like that are all stop motion. What does CGI stand for? What is it? Oh, fucking hell. I say I hate it all the time, but I don't know how the fuck it means. Something cinematic graphic industries. Yep, nailed it.

What is tweening? Tweening is when you make a cartoon for about a 13, 14 year old. To create slower action, would you use more frames or fewer? That's got to be a trick question. I'm going to say more. More frames, okay.

Let's ask a couple more questions what was the what was the first fully computer animated feature film I believe it was Toy Story the short they had a short from feature length though yeah from Pixar

they did different things and the thing with the lamp jumping you know what year it was Toy Story golly I want to was, Toy Story? Ah, golly. I want to say that Toy Story was 1998, the first one. And what is the most expensive animated movie to date? And how much estimate?

Most expensive animated movie to date. I would say, because of the technology that had to be used, Who Famed Roger rabbit would be the most expensive animator how much did it cost i think oh in today's money i would say it was 150 million dollar movie what about money of 1715 was it made in 1750 i'm just saying he just wants the calculator to come out uh how did jim do on his knowledge of animation zero through 10 10's the best I would say 5 out of 10 but if you rank

some of the thinking behind the answers you could go as high as a 7 or 8 it's just a different way of looking at the question that's why I support QAnon because you gotta look at things differently Kelly how did you do on confidence?

I was gonna give you a six on confidence, but after the Q&A on comment, you get a negative five. Negative fives, you're at zero. But I'm going to give you 11 so you can be poo on a stick. Because you wanted to be poo on a stick. So you're poo on a stick, just for today. Poo on a stick. Cuts clothing.

Fellas, the sport of business means demanding excellence from your craft and wardrobe. Your fit needs to be versatile, blending timeless style and comfort so you look as good as you feel. For that, there's Cuts Clothing. They've taken classic male fashion staples like the plain tee, they've refined it combining premium quality and minimalistic aesthetic. Cuts shirts, polo shirts, hoodies, crew shirts are made for the man who works hard, plays hard, never settles for less.

All of the sport of business. I bought the Cuts t-shirts. Oh, they're nice. You never felt cotton quite like them. Lovely. I have the Cuts shorts. Oh, I bloody love Cuts. I have a quite like them. Lovely. I have the Cuts shorts. I bloody love Cuts. I have a Cuts hoodie as well.

I have the shorts. I have a T-shirt and a polo and a hoodie. But the T-shirt, I wear a lot of black T-shirts in my nose. The cotton's very good. Cuts is a premium. They're premium. Each piece of clothing is designed with custom-engineered fabric, expertly graded for the perfect fit

arming you for every challenge and opportunity it's not a lifestyle it's not just clothing it's an office leisure apparel for the sport of business get 1.5 off your first one 1.5% off your first amount. Where's the dot there? Get 15. Jesus Christ, this is a big saving. Get 15% off your first. Look, I'm only reading what they've written down here, people.

I'm telling you, you better get onto this because this is obviously a typo and they want to fix it. Get 15% off your first order by going to cuts.com slash idk. That's cuts.com slash idk for 15% off the only shirt worth wearing. Cuts. Now, I know you probably look at me and you think, that's a guy who's got his mental health under control. But between me and you, it hasn't always been that strong but we're there we're always watching is there something interfering with your happiness and preventing you from achieving your

goals i've had depression throughout my life debilitating pressure and i got help through therapy go see a therapist speak to someone there's no shame in it and better help will assist your needs and match you with your own licensed professional therapist. You can start communicating in under 48 hours. It's not a crisis loan. It's not a self-help. It's professional counselling done securely online. There is a broad range of expertise available, which may not be available local in many areas. The service is available for clients worldwide. It's an ad for everybody. You go in, you log into your account anytime and send a message to your counselor.

You will get a timely and thoughtful response. Plus you can schedule weekly videos or phone sessions. So you won't ever have to sit in one of those uncomfortable waiting rooms looking at the other people going, oh, what's wrong with that fellow? What's wrong with this one? BetterHelp is committed to facilitating great therapeutic matches so they make it easy

and free to change counsellors if needed it's also more affordable than traditional offline counselling and financial aid is available better help wants you to start living your happier life today so visit their website and read their testimonials that are posted daily. Visit betterhelp.com slash IDK slash IDK. Remember to write the slash IDK. That's Better H-E-L-P and join the over 1 million people who have taken charge of their mental health and help from help with an experienced professional. In fact, so many people have been using BetterHelp that they are recruiting additional counselors in all 50 states.

This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp, and the I Don't Know About That listeners get 10% off their first month. So go to betterhelp.com slash IDK. Get your mental health good. BetterHelp. All right. All right, Andrew. Briefly, how does animation work?

You can be a little bit less than brief. I just asked Jim to be brief. But he said old school, you do a drawing, slightly different, blah, blah, blah. But maybe you can tell us a little bit. Fundamentally, animation is the illusion of movement through the playback of images sequentially. And that could be on film. It could be on a computer. It could be on a flipbook.

Any way that you can get rapid succession of images to utilize the persistence of vision in your eye, which is basically your brain and your eye work together to create a temporary imprint of an image. And it lasts for a fraction of a second you know depending on how much light is in the room the persistence of vision could last for you know 1 30th of a second or less or more but that's why you know 24 frames a second or 30 frames a second tends to look natural to the human eye oh 24 frames a second you're pretty close when you answered the frame rate question,

that was like silent film era where they're like hand cranking. Oh, no, no. I'm not into these modern fandangle fucking cartoons. I like a good old school fucking Porky Pig. And Porky Pig, he was rocking around at 20 frames a second. And they used to repeat the same frame over and over again. That's why you went even and even and even it like that, right? That was just they were trying to save film.

What does the word animation mean? Jim said drawing of movement. How's that? That was pretty good, eh? Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, is that good? Is that a good answer? Well, I mean, it's conceptually it's right it's like images that play back to create the illusion of movement but they don't necessarily have to be

drawings they could be photographs or or computer generated images there's your cgi computer generated images yeah it's right there in front of you fucking computer yeah i read it says animation is literally translated from french as soul yeah well that's why the disney animator said it's not just the illusion of movement it's the illusion of life you're trying to bring a character to life that audiences relate to and the sooner you kill their parents the sooner they can relate to the characters i did i didn't did you work on the movie soul i didn't remember hearing that in your credits i didn't work on thank god i didn't like soul i don't credits. I didn't work on Soul. Thank God I didn't like Soul. I loved it.

No, I'll tell you what was wrong with Soul. Give me a dead parent, first of all. That gives you a bit. There was no dead parent. It gives you a bit of drive. Wasn't the dad dead? Yeah, his dad. Oh, his dad.

He was an old man. And up, there's no parent that dies. Yeah, but that one was boring as well. It was a little more wife's dad. You're old. Anyway, so the problem with Soul is everyone's going up into their middle world or heaven or wherever they were going, all the little souls were moving along.

And then he's like, I haven't played enough piano. There's people who have just died and left families and little children and never got to say goodbye to their loved ones and he's bitching and moaning that he hasn't fucking played enough jazz. Calm down. You don't deserve to be the first person to come back into the real world because you haven't played jazz. Doesn't make sense to me. Very angry with Sol. You don't like jazz?

I don't. No, I don't. It really comes down to that. Oh, God, Jay. How do you feel about La La Land? You know what I do? Oh, I hated La La Land. See, it's a jazz thing. And I love musicals, but La La Land drove me insane. What about Whiplash? I didn't like Whiplash either.

Really? I didn't watch Whiplash. I'll tell you the truth, right? So J.K. Simmons, who was the guy in Whiplash. Wrote Harry Potter. And he won the Oscar for Whiplash. The next scene that he did out of Whiplash was a movie that I did called Punching the Clown

and he did a scene with me and everyone's like, he's going to win the Oscar and I think I did say to him, I loved you in Whiplash. I still haven't seen Whiplash. Wait, you did a movie called Punching the Clown? Yeah, what the hell is that?

Yeah, part two. Part two. Is that why Tommy Caprio calls masturbating Punching the Clown? No, it was just a little. That was a guy, part two. Part two. Is that why Tommy Caprio calls masturbating punching the clown? No, it's just a little. That was a guy, Henry Phillips. He really does call it that, though. He says it all the time.

Well, that's maybe why they called the movie that after Tommy Caprio. But I was just a small part in it. I was just a small part in it. So persistence of vision. You mentioned that before. It is not when Stevie Wonder really tries to see. So what does that mean? When he squints. When he squints.

When he squints. Why would he squint? How would that help him? Like if you put like a question mark on the end of this song, isn't she lovely? Like that's because he's really trying to tell. Okay. So Andrew, you explained that a little bit.

Can you just talk about that a little bit more? Because I've heard that term before, and I guess I just never really thought about it. It's the principle that makes animation work. It makes the illusion work because the way your eye and your brain work together to imprint those images in your mind's eye, it kind of tethers them together when those imprints happen at a certain rate. Okay. together when those imprints happen at a certain rate okay and so all animation is made up of blank it's supposed to be frames and what are frames jim said magic moving characters frames and moving pictures i always remember like i used to go into those like memorabilia stores and they used to go

we have a frame from fantasia i thought it was a cell yeah they call themselves yeah they had a cell we have a cell from fantasia and it was the thing and They call them cells. Yeah, they had a cell. We have a cell from Fantasia. And you're like, that must be the most valuable thing in the world. And there's fucking 24 of them a second. There's fucking loads of these cells kicking about. Are cells and frames the same thing? They're not. So playback of the film would be at 24 frames per second.

So you're watching a live action film from basically the 1930s onward. It's at 24 frames a second. Every frame is a slightly different image. But in animation to save cost in the hand-drawn days, they would do 12 drawings a second and shoot each one twice, especially if it was a slow-moving action. But if you've got Snow White walking through the forest with all the animals and the cameras panning left to right, then they would do 24 drawings a second because otherwise you get sort of a choppy effect

and then the persistence of vision doesn't work quite as well. Something looks wrong with it. But also, sorry, the cells always had like the clear bit. So that's like you could leave Snow White in the same forest and just put cells over the top of it, right or is a frames completely drawn and cells are partly drawn or well the frame is just basically one frame of film going through the gate so you open up a spool of film and you see all the frames but the image might be different from one to the next or the image might be the same from one to the next if it's the same drawing um the cell is just

basically the transparency so that you can have the drawing of the character over the background without completely covering it up like a piece of paper like projection slides from back in the day or like a like a paper doll but if it was a drawing oh yeah okay okay i get it now so it so frames per second you said in in older days it was a lot it was not a lot but it was slower 20 to 23 and now it's 24 so that's why film looks different like that when you see the older yeah when with the advent of sound you needed synchronized a turning of the film gate so they invented a mechanical crank so that it would play back consistently at 24 and the sound was predictable and synchronized before that with silent films you had to crank the camera to record it you're running film through

the gate then you also had to crank it again to play it back on a projector. I always think those guys who cranked it, they must have one arm that was fucking massive. And they might've shown up to work one time drunk and the movie took like an hour and a half. It was meant to take like an hour and 10 minutes. And then they might be like, I'm meant to get you out of the fuck shower. And she,

she wants me over at her house. And this film goes a bit quicker. Have you, have you ever worked on video games? Is that like the same animation process? It's similar. A lot of people nowadays are coming from video games into movies. And now people that worked at big studios like Disney are going back into video games at companies like Blizzard and Riot. But the principle is the same. I mean, it's 3D animation on a computer that has a digital puppet with a digital rig that you articulate to create the movement. Just like the old days of King Kong, there was a physical puppet with a metal armature that you pose one frame at a time and photograph. a lot of the in-between movement for you.

And you can create much more precise, much more fluid, high frame rate actions that way. But video game animation is kind of like the process that happens before a movie like Toy Story or Frozen gets rendered. When those movies get rendered, they're basically capturing a little bit of animation, rendering it through one camera at one angle, and then telling the story like a live action director with video games you create the animation as sort of an instance that you can put anywhere in time or space and then the player can engage with it so animating for video games is creating like we need a guy falling down who got shot or we need a guy jumping or we need somebody you know walking slowly or running or crouching. And then the computer blends those individual samples together.

Here's a little thing. Okay. So when you, okay, obviously when you make something like Frozen, you go, that's an animated movie. But do you see things like, do you see Jurassic Park as an animated movie? Because it was all done on computers and CGI. No, I mean, there's only like the amount of animated footage in Jurassic Park is really negligible compared to like an Avengers movie nowadays. I think it's only I think something like 10 minutes of actual CGI animation in the original Jurassic Park, because they also had a lot of puppets and a lot of photography where they're kind of not showing the dinosaurs. But no, I don't see that as an animated movie.

they're kind of not showing the dinosaurs but no i don't see that as an animated movie some people say james cameron's avatar with the blue aliens could be considered an animated movie because there's so much cgi in that movie but i think i would say the phantom menace that moment when the gungans were fighting with the with the fucking robot droids that's not a real world you're just watching a cartoon then, right? Yep. Yep. You are. Yep. I haven't seen it.

I've got to lie and stop telling people I was an actor in that scene. It's a puppet. And so the Avengers is, well, you didn't say it was animated, but a lot of it was animated. Yeah. I mean, in the same way that James Cameron's Avatar could be considered animated where there's motion capture of real actors, you know, sometimes CGI puppets that look just like the actor to create a visual effect.

But there's also a lot of hand keyframed animation where animators are getting in there, moving the puppet around and creating exactly the performance or the effect that the director wants. So it's sort of a marriage between data created by an actor and keyframed information input by an animator. How long did it take the actor to get into the Hulk makeup? That's a good question. I don't know the answer to that one. It's probably more on the live action side.

There are 12 basic principles of animation. I asked him the name too. He said, always be kind treat people as you'd like to be treated it's nice to be important but it's important to be nice couple of songs detailed notes that parent movement well are any of those right couple of songs well i mean that's why i say the answer could be as high as a seven out of ten instead of a five because the spirit of those answers is true it is true to working at a big animation studio with hundreds of artists. You got to get along with people to get an animated movie made. It's like,

first and foremost, if the group doesn't get along, you're not going to get an animated movie made. It's just too big of a team. But the principles of animation relate to what an animator thinks about when creating animation. So in the old hand-drawn days of Disney, they would say squash and stretch creates the illusion of tangibility, right? Physics at a basic level to create the sense of form, like the flower sack is the classic example. It squashes down and then it stretches when it jumps. And that gets applied to anything from a bouncing ball to Mickey Mouse running and hopping. There's slight deformation on the

shapes that are relative as they articulate. That's like if you saw an animation of a bouncing ball and as it came down the hill, it kind of squashes into an oval, right? And then regains its shape. You just reminded me of that video game Cuphead. Have you ever played that? I love Cuphead.

It's like an old-timey animation vibe to it. There's a lot of that video game Cuphead. Have you ever played that? Yeah, I love Cuphead. Yeah, and it's like an old-timey animation vibe to it. There's a lot of that squashing and stretching and that, yeah. When you were making Frozen, I always find this weird about successful films, or I'm curious about it. When you were making Frozen, were you sitting around with the other animators going, this thing's going to fucking be a phenomenon,

or were you like, yeah, we'll just churn this out? I thought it was going to be successful while working on it. Not to the degree that it was like a $1.2 billion phenomenon, but the studio had already made Tangled. That was already very popular and very expensive. I think the question earlier, what's the most expensive animated movie? It's that one. And it's not because of the images on screen. It's because of the very long development cycle

that it had. We all know in Hollywood development can be a long and drawn out process with a lot of restarts and resets and thrown out work. And Tangled was one of those projects. Yeah, it was number one at $274 million. When they animated Michael Jordan in Space Jam, why couldn't they make him act even in that state? He's still a bad actor. He's still a bad actor even with animation. He's just doing a fucking voiceover.

No one can jump like that. It's ridiculous. So squash and stretch, are there any other principles of animation? There's timing and spacing. Spacing is the position change of an object across the frame. So if the ball starts here, then it squashes, goes up, up, up, hits its peak, comes down and then hits. The spacing is, you know, just exactly that, the ball traveling through space in different positions. Timing is how fast does that happen, right? So if it's happening faster, you might only see the ball for one, two, three, four, five drawings or

images or frames. If it's happening slowly, you might see it for way more frames, which is either going to feel like slow motion, or it's going to make the ball feel like it's really big and traveling a great distance, like a planet or something. Now, this might sound like a silly question. There was a kid at my school who used to. Now this might sound like a silly question. There was a kid at my school who used to draw and it just looked like Disney stuff. It just looked like he obviously was fairly influenced and he just knew how to do it. Even when he was a little kid, he knew how to do it.

By the time he was 18, he was doing it. I think he went on to work for some animated thing. I haven't seen him since school. Is it just people who are naturally talented at this or can you go to university to become an animator or like i assume like working for disney and pixar and other stuff this is like entering the premier league of your job like okay i'll rephrase this do you ever meet like a like a cartoonist an animator from like the family guy and you're like hello mate yeah good for you yeah i mean the friend that you talked about had a good sense of what they call family guy and you're like, hello, mate. Yeah, good for you.

Yeah, I mean, the friend that you talked about had a good sense of what they call appeal, which is one of the principles of animation from that list of 12 mentioned earlier. And appeal is sort of the inherent charisma or draw that an image has. So like when a young artist named Fred Moore joined Disney, people said he had a great sense of appeal. He redesigned Mickey Mouse from Steamboat Willie to the kind of Fantasia Mickey that we still associate with the character today. And the eyes were sort of bigger. They had pupils and whites. They're kind of slightly at an angle. He made the head bigger relative to the body to give it like a cuter feel. The hands were really big and had big white gloves he's squishy you kind of looked like a more cuddly character than the kind of black simple silhouette

from the uh the abai works cartoons so appeal is it's almost like the attractiveness of the image and yeah and disney is like the most recognizable like you're like oh that's a disney princess there's such a well i was watching I was watching a documentary on Walt Disney. I think it's on Disney Plus. You can watch this documentary. Anyway, they were talking about like when they were making Bambi, for example, and they had like maybe 15 animators sitting around. They had this deer just sitting there in like on some hay in the middle of them.

Does that still go on? Do you still have to go out and look at animals and stuff like that or do we all go fuck i know how to do a skunk just do a stroke there's a lot more internet searching that goes on and making animated movies now not nearly as much of the in-house visits you know when they did that for lion king brought in real lions there was a lot of utility to it it was educational but i think there was also some publicity behind it too like it looked really cool because i got to tell you whoever did the tasmanian devil not close i know you thought the internet would never be invented and no one would fact check you this is what a tasmanian devil looks like not fucking even in

the same realm and you're just going and that's a Tasmanian devil. Lying cunt he is. So do you want to speak on that? I mean, it's as much a Tasmanian devil as Sonic is a hedgehog. It's an impression with a few graphic shapes. I mean, with the Tasmanian devil, they gave them little furry devil horns, didn't they? I don't remember horns anymore. I just remember him going,

and then spinning around. Now, the only thing that's accurate is Tasmanian devils do go, I thought you were going to say that's how people from Tasmania sound. Oh, no. You know what they eat? What do you reckon Tasmanian devils eat? What's their main diet? Taco Bell.

Apples. Oh. They fucking love apples. Really? Mad for them. Mad for them. He's only defends things from Australia. Oh. They fucking love apples. Really? Mad for them. Mad for them. He's only defends things from Australia. I never said that was great.

You're like Sonic the Hedgehog. I've never seen a Tasmanian devil in the wild. I've spent as much time in Tasmania as you have. Every day I've spent in Tasmania, you were with me. Oh, that was your first time there? That was my first time. I liked it. It was nice.

It's a small place. We got fucking on trucks. You land on the plane and they do a U-turn on the runway. I remember there was like, watch us. We got fucked up in Tasmania. We did, yeah. It was years ago. You guys were Tasmanian devils.

We went crazy in Tessie. We did, it was fun. How does rigged animation differ from traditional? Jim said like Roger Rabbit animation with regular folk. So I'll give the benefit of the doubt to that answer. On Roger Rabbit, there were actually physical rigs on set. You know, if baby Herman was moving a real live action cigar around, there was a mechanical armature or rig that was doing that.

Then they had to literally draw the baby over the rig to cover it up, right? Almost like makeup over the film. But it's not live action hybrid animation. Rigged animation is like anything from King Kong to Toy Story that's three-dimensional and requires either a real puppet or a digital puppet. Whereas drawn animation is exactly that. It's just a drawing from your hand to the image that brings it to life. Here's one for you. I remember when they made Jurassic Park and they said, they said, this is one of the most expensive movies ever. Or when they make Titanic, they go,

because of the scene with the boat and all those scenes are CGI. It's always baffled me that they're done on computers. Shouldn't that be way, way cheaper than just fucking getting a little model and doing it like why did why was it or have they brought the price down on cgi but cgi seemed to be very expensive why was that it's uh some of it is the complexity of the hardware some of it is the education of the artists and the technicians that have to execute the work. And the computers are not as smart as people give them credit for. It's a lot of input. It's basically just an assistant who holds your hand, right? Like in the days of King Kong, you had to shoot every frame in order. And if you messed up, you had to start over or just leave it in the movie. Whereas in the computer, you can say, I'm going to jump to frame one, pose the character like this. I'm going to jump to frame 90 and pose the character like this. And you can let the computer just in between it for you. And it'll look terrible because there's no breakdown motion. But the computer is basically like a memory bank. It stores all the information so you don't have to kind of scramble to do everything correctly on one try.

to kind of scramble to do everything correctly on one try. Have we ever lost a great movie scene, a Pixar scene or something like that because someone would have been animating on their computer and then they watched porn and they got a virus? That must have happened, right? And also, while I'm at it, who animates that animation porn? Who does that? Because some of the drawings are pretty real to life. Probably your friend

from high school. You know what I mean? Like that guy must be like, I could actually work for Disney. This Bukkake scene is fucking... I've got this princess down. Don't want to get you in any trouble.

You don't have to answer. There's a lot more people working in our industry now than 20 years ago. So naturally, the C-level will rise in every category of animation.

Alright. And what do you think of anime? I always think they're sweating too much and their eyes are too big. You know, they're Japanese. That sounds so racist. I'm not saying their eyes are too big. I mean, like, you know. They do blow up like other things. They get shocked and there's saucers on them and then there's always a bead of sweat going down. They're always like, you know, they do blow up like sailor moon sources on them.

And then there's always a bead of sweat going down. They're always like, ah, and you're like, you're like, all right, calm down, everyone in anime. It never seems to be an anime. Anyone just has a nice conversation where they're not freaking the fuck out. You should watch the Hayao Miyazaki movies of Studio Ghibli. They're kind of considered the Disney of Japan and their movies are super mellow. Is that Totoro? Studio Ghibli, they're kind of considered the Disney of Japan and their movies are super mellow.

Is that Totoro? It's Totoro and Spirited Away and Ponyo. Princess Mononoke is a great one. I mean, they're all great, but yeah, that's kind of the more chill approach. What was your, growing up, you obviously had a healthy interest in animation. What was your, what was your kick as a kid that you really liked? I loved Disney. I loved the Warner Brothers cartoons, the Looney Tunes characters, the classic films from the 40s and 50s. But I was a 90s kid, so I loved every new Disney movie that came out.

I remember the trailer for A Nightmare Before Christmas really captivated me. I didn't know how they had done it. I mean, I knew it was kind of like how the Rudolph, Franken-Base films were done, but it was so much more fluid and so much more sophisticated. And I remember my neighbors went to go see it and then I wasn't allowed to see it because of some of the content in the film. I was really young when it came out. But that's one of my favorites. It's just so inventive and

takes advantage of what animation can do that other film mediums can't do. I'll tell you what I like. Pinky and the Brain. Yeah. That was some solid afternoon cartoon, that one. Also, Danger Mouse never got a big play over here, but living in Australia, Danger Mouse was a big one. Yeah, the Spider-Man is from a long time ago. I used to like, but there was a part where he would go to some underworld

and then he would just be swinging through some weird caves and I always made him feel weird. That part. But I did like that. And then I also like Brennan Stimpy, which was really... Brennan Stimpy was the first edgy, like mainstream thing

where the creatures were vomiting and stuff like that. Yeah, but from afar, the animation would be kind of just, just pretty basic. And then they would have these closeups of their tongue with like, fern, needle, whatever. It was like, just like, gah! It was like, just pretty basic and then they would have these close-ups of their tongue with like fur

and a needle and whatever it was like just like I was like there's a really good documentary on Nickelodeon that talks about that

and how that was like transformative for the kids show industry because Ren and Stimpy was so like disgusting it was a weird cartoon

it's a really good documentary and it seems now that I watch a lot of the cartoons that my son watches there's like Dog Cat and there's like Pickle and Peanut and all these different things. And it feels like they've gone back to very basic animation

that people enjoy that on some level. And I think maybe South Park is to blame for that or to be credited for that. I don't know. Am I? Because it feels like simple animation is very popular now. It's had a resurgence. Yeah, it is.

Simple animation is the easiest now it's had a resurgence yeah it is simple animation is the easiest to do by hand and i think there's been a whole generation that grew up on the pixar films and dreamworks films that are so photorealistic at times and there is an appeal and an access an accessibility to a simple drawing and how that communicates so i think part of it is just a reaction to doing the opposite of what's possible you know taking it back to basics and simple also just tends to be funnier you know if something is so impressive and lavish it tends to be less funny is is gumby respected in the community like if he was to show up is he personally yeah if he was to show up if they're the same at parties

and all the animated people were there and then Gumby came along would they go oh god it's Gumby oh fuck I used to love him as a kid

oh I can't even talk to him respected in the community yeah or are people just like fucking Gumby that hack oh you know you know another cartoon

like Luno do you remember that one it was like it was a Pegasus horse and I think it was a 30 minute cartoon but it was a 30-minute cartoon, but it was chopped up into two 15-minute, you know, whatever, chunks.

And so when I was little, my mom would tell me, I'd be like, how long are we going to be? And she'd be like, it's an hour. And I'm like, that's four Lunos. That's how I marked time when I was younger. Oh, I did that with my kid forever. It's two Sponge Bobs. He's like, all right, yeah, I know how long that is.

That's pretty quick. Yeah, it's over before you even want it to be andrew can you explain to everybody the uncanny valley this is jack you can't see him yeah the the uncanny valley is basically when it's usually associated with cgi but it could be associated with sculpture as well like if you go to a wax museum and see a facsimile of a celebrity and it's not quite right. It looks like a corpse that's been slightly melted, but

it still looks like Jimmy Fallon or Nicolas Cage. Uncanny Valley and CGI. Which is funny because Nicolas Cage looks like Jimmy Fallon if he was melted. Yep. I like it. Yeah, you're right. I'm telling you. I just said to myself, you're right.

You're right, I tell you. As, you're right. I'm telling you. I just said to myself, you're right. You're right. I tell you. As always. But I remember when there was a movie called Final Fantasy, The Spirits Within that came out 20 years ago. And that was kind of considered the first Uncanny Valley feature film. And you had a character voiced by Alec Baldwin, who looked like a plastic Ben Affleck.

And so there's already like another weird disconnect going on on top of the plastic CGI. That movie, the Beowulf, that thing's fucking terrifying. And it's Robert Zemeckis and I fucking love anything Robert Zemeckis does. Did you ever read the book, Beowulf?

Polar Express. Good night, kids. Christmas is in the morning like it's fucking terrifying their eyes they have the dead eyes they can't CGI when they try to make people

look like actual people they haven't got it you can make them look like cartoon characters but like how close are you to actually okay that's a good way because I know they're bringing out

a movie right now and James Dean's gonna be in it right and so they're bringing back actors and soon we're going to have a Marilyn Monroe movie and all that type of stuff and I think they think they're close because you do things like you see Arnold Schwarzenegger younger as a Terminator and things like that I just don't feel like they're quite there yet are they close to doing that or is that a little while away from being really good I think it's getting better, but I

think it's a little bit like an exponential diminishing returns, right? It's like Toy Story 1 where the humans are basically Barbie dolls. And then you've got Toy Story 3 where they look much better. And then you've got things like the digital stunt doubles, like the young Arnold from Terminator, where it's basically a real guy. then they put a cgi face on it and they kind of map it to that actor's face so that it it absorbs some of the motion and some of the spacing but it's still not quite right if you guys have ever seen like deep fakes yeah like a like a tom cruise face on jim carrey or something and it's pretty good yeah and in some ways it's more convincing than a CGI replicant but it's it's still like a little off even when you're not using a 3D puppet you're

just using kind of deep fake technology it's still uncanny it's still off well I thought Mark Hamill in the Mandalorian was close but they made him not move very much when he saw his face he just sort of stayed still but then when they made Robert De Niro really young in that- Irishman. The Irishman. Yeah. I was like, fuck it. At least get another actor to do the body.

He was meant to be 30 years old, and Robert De Niro would go, I'm going to kick the shit out of you. And it was still an 80-year-old bloke doing the kicking. I'll tell you what, the way he was hunched over, giving you a kick. He's just always had that posture. But I would like if they get it to a reasonable level, um, for one of my specials to me to be younger.

That'd be nice. Just something younger, more hair, blow the budget. Bigger tits. You've got, do you still have your space boobs? I'm just going to have tits just so I can get the men in to watch it.

And then what was the first? I think the more subtle, the difference in subject and outcome, the better it is. Like if you've got a 50-year-old and you want him to look 40, it's easier to do that than it is to make an 80-year-old look 30. And, I mean, basically the more work the computer or makeup artist has to do, the less effective it's going to be. Yeah, I thought they didn't do bad in Tron with what's his name,

the dude, you know. Oh, Jeff Bridges? Jeff Brid bad in Tron with what's his name, the dude, you know. Oh, Jeff Bridges? Jeff Bridges in Tron looked pretty good. And then even Kurt Russell in the fucking Gardens of the Galaxy at the beginning when he's meant to be in the 70s. Gardens of the Galaxy. Yeah, he looked pretty good in the computer. First famous animated character, Jim said, Shonky Rabbit.

You know the guy. He's like a rabbit. You can buy the You know the guy. He's like a rabbit. You can buy the ears at Disney, but he's like a rabbit. And I know what you're going to tell me. There was some, oh, oh, fuck the rabbit. I'm going to go. I'm going to go. It's fucking Felix the Cat or Betty Boop.

It's Felix the Cat. Felix the Cat predates Betty Boop. All right. I get it. I get it. One more point. And then Oswald the Lucky Rabbit. Oswald. Os Rabbit. Oswald.

He was taken away after an unfortunate incident in the 60s. Around the grassy knoll. I wasn't talking about that. He just, he just me too'd a woman at Disneyland. I actually got to animate Oswald in a short film called Get a Horse that played before Frozen. There's like this whole jamboree section at the end where they're performing to Turkey in the Straw and Oswald kind of peeks his head in and leaves. And the reason he's in the short is because I just took the Mickey Mouse rig and deformed him into Oswald. Now people must have, it must have, because I remember seeing like Jurassic Park for the first time,

being blown away by the CGI the first time I saw it, you know, and still that movie still stands up pretty good. The first anime, so when Felix the Cat came out, were people losing their shit? Or were they like, oh, that's interesting? Or were people lining up going, you've got to see it. It's like a cat. I've seen cats before. No, no, it's like a drawing of a cat. What are you talking about? I've seen drawings of cats. It's a drawing of a cat and the cat's moving. What the fuck are you talking about? I've seen drawings of cats. It's a drawing of a cat and the cat's moving. What the fuck are you talking about? You have to see it. Well, I think it was the first animated series that was widely popular, like had that mass

appeal of a character like Mickey Mouse that would come later. But it looked like the newspaper comics of the day come to life. Before that, you had Windsor McKay, who was also a newspaper comic artist, but he would do these really elaborate drawings. Like if you've ever seen Gertie the Dinosaur, which came out in like 1907 or something like that. Maybe it was a little later. It's like a super elaborate drawing of a dinosaur. And it's almost like the way he presents it is like an Art Nouveau ringmaster, like presenting Gertie the dinosaur, but really he's just filming himself then showing his drawings. And there was sort of a novelty aspect to it,

but it wasn't mass market like a Disney character. And Felix was the first one that sort of created the model for the Betty Boops and the Mickey Mouses and the Oswalt's and Popeye's that would come a little bit later. It's like a cartoon. That's a celebrity. Why were cavemen such bad artists? Like I've seen a lot of paintings. They just paint stick figures and all that type of stuff.

Why were they so fucking simple? Like you should have, could have got one like a Korag, the drawer, right? He comes in and fucking, that's a good picture. Why haven't we walked into one cave and gone,

oh, this is like Frozen. They didn't have pencils. You can give me a quicker or long answer, whatever you want. What do you think, Andrew, the answer? He's an expert. They'd have to like chip away into rocks. They didn't have paper or pencils. It's not like we've inherently become better at drawing

as we go along. You'd think there'd be one caveman who did some real intricate drawings, but they're always shit. I think we just inherently become better at drawing as we go along. You'd think there'd be one caveman who did some real intricate drawings, but they're always shit. I think we just have gotten better at drawing. Yeah. I know some character designers who really like cave art because of the simplicity and uniqueness of the shapes, but they didn't have any way of really recording anything except for memory,

and the only way to see an animal still was either dead or wounded, right? And so watching them move was sort of like a quick impression that you then had to take with you, go back to the cave and then scrape onto a wall with a rock. So I think there were just more barriers to being comfortable while creating the art. Oh, that's true. Have you ever? I knew he'd have an answer. He looked at me like he wouldn't have an answer. I didn't think he was going to, but good job. Have you ever tried to draw an animal from memory? I've never tried to draw an animal. It's remarkably hard.

Yeah. Like it's so much easier to do it if you're looking at an image of it, but holy crap, you really don't know how deformed an animal can look until you try that. Also, because when you look at like the Egyptian walls and they've got all the different people and they've got like cat's heads and all that type of stuff and then a snake coming out of their forehead and all that type of stuff, and we all think that's a pharaoh and a this

and it's telling some historical tale. I reckon there's a good chance that they were just like the comic books and that was like, oh, like another episode of Snakehead. Yeah, probably. And we're all trying to look at it like, and obviously the Pharaoh and cats are very important. Snakehead and the cat. Ah, I love this.

Great episode. One thing about like Egyptian mythology and Greek mythology is they have a lot of deep lore, like the Marvel Universe, and a lot of characters. So I think you're onto something there with the entertaining drama of all the stories around these broad characters. Another point. There'd be shit characters that came in.

Oh, Mole Head. Didn't take off. Mole Head-based characters? Yeah, they're always like a human body with a different head. That was the Egyptians really went for that. Bird Head. Yeah, Bird Head they tried, didn't go anywhere else snake head and fucking cat head were their number

the highest rating shows at the time I have a question about working on like you know the Disney films obviously you know there's a huge team of animators how do how does your work break down like do you get assigned a character do you get assigned a scene

how does that play out? Every animator has different strengths as an actor. You're basically acting in slow motion through the digital puppet. Some people are really funny and create great body language with the characters. Other people are really good at shooting reference of themselves and then capturing it in their animation and creating really moving performances of crying or deep thought. And you kind of get typecasts on certain characters. Like on Frozen, I mainly worked on Princess Anna because the supervising animator, Becky

Breese, I think responded to choices I was making. But then you had other animators like Hiram Osmond who was supervising on Olaf and created just wildly funny body language that would get laughs in the theater just because of how he animated that character so your strengths are recognized by your supervising art team and then you get sort of cast on oh that's super interesting so you sort of get a character that you're meant to draw and then other people get other characters. So have you ever been in like trouble where they're like, you're just doing crowds? I mean, you're usually, you're not doing crowds because you're in trouble.

You're usually doing it because you're green. You're new to the studio and they want to get you comfortable with the workflow and, you know, showing in dailies and interacting with the director and you know showing in dailies and interacting with the director and just developing a lot of muscle memory with how to do animation on that platform and then once you get you know mature in your abilities and you might get more special acting scenes have you ever had a character cut from a film like you've ever been like making aladdin and you were doing aladdin's friend steve who goes back and chats to her now, chats to her now and again.

Steve's like, I reckon you should fucking go after her, mate. I reckon she's hot to trot. And he's like, I don't know. I'm just a peasant. Go, fucking dress up like a king. Go on. All right, Steve. And then he goes off.

What happened to Steve? I've never had a character like Steve cut from a project I was working on. But there is a story from the Jungle Book where there was a rhinoceros named Rocky the Rhino and he was completely cut from the film, I think because Walt Disney just didn't like the character. He had one song called I'm Horny.

Jack Whitehall, when he was on the podcast, didn't he say he had a speaking role in Frozen and it got downgraded? Who was this? Jack Whitehall. He's now a friend of mine from back in the day in England. He's a comedian. He's now the second lead

in the Jungle Cruise movie with The Rock. He's the other lead. I think he's playing the first homosexual Disney character. So there was a bit of controversy about him getting that part. And then also, then people go, it should have gone to a gay actor because Jack does very well with the women. But he's questionable.

He was flirting with me. He told us. I will. I can't disclose too much, but there was a famous comedian who has been canceled, who almost had a major secondary role in Frozen, but I can't say who it is. Was he canceled before or was he cancelled

well after? Oh, well after. Jack, I'm in our I can think of so many people. I think it's Louis C.K. who was playing Olaf's cousin. Louis C.K. Christoli. I don't know. Jack Whitehall's character was gothy,

troll priest. It says voice uncredited so apparently he still existed in the movie but didn't have any lines. Jack Whitehall's character was gothy troll priest. And it says, it says voice on credit. So apparently he still existed in the movie, but didn't have any lines. He took all his lines. Oh, interesting.

Yeah. So that's news to me. Many cartoon characters only have four fingers. How did this benefit the studios? And Jim said too many danglies. It doesn't look right. It doesn't look right, but I think the, I think the too many danglies answer doesn't look right. It doesn't look right. But we live in two dicks.

I think the too many danglies answer is 50%, right? It's five out of 10, right? But it's also a cost thing. You know, it's like if you've got a character who's as simple as Mickey or Felix, it does look weird legitimately when they have five fingers. It's like too much information

in a small space for such a simple character. But, you know, in the case of The the simpsons you probably could do those characters with five fingers and it would look a little uh a little off maybe sometimes it would look good sometimes it wouldn't so they aired on the side of just giving four fingers and it makes a tv show much cheaper to produce when you've got many characters on screen all the time. Paws saver. What is stop motion? Jim said,

not drawn, move slightly and take photos of each movement. Yeah, that's correct. It's basically just taking a photo one frame at a time and moving something a little bit at a time to create that illusion. And that seems to have been around as long as uh just drawn animation right because as you were saying king kong and all that type of stuff like i remember like when i used to watch

like jason and the argonauts and all that type of stuff they used to have all the like the little skeleton soldiers come out and all that stuff so that is that it was that before or after drawn animation uh they kind of developed at the same time because once people figured out how to create motion through the sequential playback of film you know the very first animation were photographs uh taken by a guy named edward moidbridge who would photograph people walking through tripwires and every time one of the tripwires was triggered it would take a photo so if they're like spaced apart at just the right amount you get you know that little snapshot of yeah i hear small movements at a time is still how they make kevin costner act i have a thing against kevin costner i he what he does is he picks good movies the guy can't act for

shit i love his films okay i don't know what order are all the podcasts we have been recording come out but there's going to be a lot of kevin costner bashing i don Okay, I don't know what order all the podcasts we have been recording come out, but there's going to be a lot of Kevin Costner bashing. I don't know which podcast is which one, but people are going to be like, wow, he's talking about Kevin Costner. First he came out the French chef, now Kevin Costner. Kevin Costner does an emote. These movies are fantastic. The guy

picks the best films and then just stands there going, I'm in charge. I'm your bodyguard. Actually, that was more than emotive you never think of going that'd be too much cgi stands for uh computer generated imagery used in cinematic graphic industries you're on there but uh so we just i'm just going through the questions what is tweening oh sorry uh uh make a cartoon for a 13 or 14 year old Jim said. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's not correct. A tweening is just creating the in-between image. So a tweening is why

that comedian couldn't be in the movie. Yeah, exactly. It's something that happens automatically now on a computer with directed choices by an animator, but it used to be something you had to do by hand you draw mickey mouse in this pose then in that pose and you have to draw every in between image to kind of create that fluidity so it's it's basically just the in-between images

between primary poses you know what animation i've been missing that i don't do anymore is when back in the old warner brothers the you know wiley Coyote and the Road Runner and all that type of stuff, if someone wanted to run really quickly, you heard a... They ran in place first. Yeah, they ran in place. And then they just had like a spiral underneath the person's body of legs just running around really quickly. Bring that back.

Get on it. People like that. Yeah. To create slower action, you would use more frames, Jim said, which you said was correct earlier in another answer. Yeah. So you use more frames to kind of eat up more time, essentially. So if something needs to happen on screen for five seconds, you know, five times 24 frames, whatever that is. And then if it needs to happen over one second, just 24 frames. So the slower

the action, the more screen time it takes up, the more frames you need. We mentioned the most expensive movie was Tangled. Tangled? I would never have picked the Tangled. Let's see if you can guess this. So Tangled was $274 million.

$274 million? Yeah. By contrast, what was the budget for Snow White and the Seven Dwarves? Because that was old money. That would have been, in old money, $800,000. At $1.49 million. More expensive than I thought. Snow White.

I'll tell you who should be me too, that bloody prince who kissed her to wake up, Sleeping Beauty. He shouldn't be in any more film. Are they getting rid of him? I actually saw that topic trending on Twitter, that exact topic, not too long ago. And you got rid of Uncle Remus because he was a slave hanging around

in the plantation with all the bloody birds on his shoulders singing Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah. He had too happy a disposition. You got rid of him. And then the prince still stays. I'm going to tell you other characters that should be cancelled. Mufasa. I mean, sorry, Scar.

Yeah, Scar. He's just killing people. Cancel that guy. He's cancelled. Nasty person. Nasty person. The baddie out of Aladdin, Jafar or whatever, he's no good either. So I mean Forrest is onto something.

I was trying to ask. He doesn't have these things. He said he's got examples. I can't read his handwriting. Examples. He just did like hieroglyphics. You said Andrew might have some examples. Oh, yeah.

You have some examples you can show us. I truly had no idea what you were trying to make there. I thought that was a cat head cartoon. examples you can show us. I truly had no idea what you were trying to make there. Oh, I want to, one thing. I thought that was a cat head cartoon. There's a lot of urban legends and things that you can sort of prove. So there was a bit where there was all the dust and the smoke came up and it was meant to say some swear word or triple X or something like that in The Lion King.

Oh, yeah, in The Lion King. In The Lion King. And then. I think it just. Oh, go ahead. And then in Roger Rabbit, and I freeze frame this, and I've seen the old footage. It's real.

She doesn't have an underwear when she falls out of the car, and you can see Jessica Rabbit's, I'll say, Warren. That's what. Warren? Yeah, Rabbit Warren. And in Little Mermaid, the priest had a boner. Oh, well, of course. Yeah.

So the first two are true. The priest one is actually a misunderstood drawing of his knobby knee under his gown. Oh, knobby knees. I've had people call it a knobby knee before. That's what I'll be saying in court. Knobby knee. Wait, what's the other one that's true? In the original cut release of Lion King, I think when Simba lays down in the grass,

the pollen or dust that comes up spells sex, I think. Or just like a couple. Yeah, I remember even, you know, when we were in elementary school, we knew that and we would pause the VHS tape on that frame. And do you think that was just- That's how dire things were when we were young. There was like no internet porn.

We're like, the word sex is on the screen. Do you think that was a disgruntled employee or someone just trying to have a laugh? I think it was just someone trying to have a laugh, to be honest. I mean, there's always jokes that happen. These movies are made by people who live in the real world

and have real senses of humor. And I think nowadays that stuff just doesn't end up in the movie it happens you know off screen have you put have you ever put any like easter eggs into your scenes that would be meaningful to like you and the people in your life um that's what i would you mean you mean besides just like putting oswald in the mickey short yeah like something in a scene where it's like this is something my wife would understand or something like something small like that. Probably not in the Disney films I worked on

because the scenes are so, you know, particularly directed. By the time it gets to the animator, you kind of just have to perform it in a convincing way. But the ideas are generally figured out before they get to you. But in the film, One Small Step that I directed, there's a scene where the main character, Luna, kisses an envelope before she puts it in the mailbox. And my wife did that before she applied to college and she got into the college she wanted. So that was like a detail that we're like, oh,

we put it in because it was something my wife did. That's why they were still married. She lives over the other side of the country now. Oh, no. No, we're happily married. Now, when you go home, see, I used to be a stand-up comedy enthusiast. I used to watch so much of it. Now I see so much.

If I go out to a gig, I watch the other comics and all that type of stuff. I watch very, very little stand-up comedy at home now because, you know, I've seen so much of it. Do you ever turn on The Simpsons or do you just sort of go and enough i've seen enough drawings today um you know it's funny the simpsons is probably one of the few things i'll still watch that's animated you know but the old simpsons i'll revisit an episode from like season four or five but i don't really watch the new stuff i'll see the pixar films that come out i'll see the dis Pixar films that come out. I'll see the Disney films that come out. And maybe there's one or two films independent or from another studio that I'm interested in,

but I don't watch probably more than three or four animated features a year. I mostly am interested in live action television. I watch more animated movies than you. I have an eight year old. I watch them on, and I'm about to have another baby come. I've got 10 more years of this. Just anything. But they're so good now. Anything you draw, I'm seeing it, mate. I'm seeing it five or six times.

The Mitchells versus the Machines. That was fantastic. I love the Mitchells versus the Machines. That was my favorite one, but I didn't want to mention it because you don't work for the Mitchells versus the Machines. No, I work for Netflix and we own that. So it's all right. Oh, okay. Cause that was very good. No, but I wanted to say, when you were first trying to guess what I do, and you said I'm in like the most nondescript space. It's because all the interesting stuff is in front of me.

Yeah, that wall's built for storyboarding, isn't it? At the back, like it looks like. It's actually, I'm in a garage. You can see, you know, there's. Oh, right. I thought it was a big studio. He's also having a baby. What a neat garage.

Yeah, I moved into the garage because my future son took my home office. But up here, I've got some Disney memorabilia. There's Pinocchio and Frozen and Mickey Mouse characters and my wife's desk right here. Oh, wow. So both of you are living in the garage. This baby's really taken over the place, eh? You should think about building a house in the garage. This baby's really taken over the place, eh? You should think about building a house onto the garage. I like it in here better than in my old room. Because we've got the high ceiling. And all of a sudden your wife can drive in

and kill you at any moment. This is Burbank. Nobody parks in their home here. Everyone parks in the street. Oh, so you live right next to the disney studios huh you're just just walking down the road to work every day yeah i bought my house right before they relocated the studio to a warehouse in north hollywood i'm gonna get to walk to work and then they're like we're making zootopia in a warehouse over by the burbank airport i'm like oh i guess I'm still driving to work. Okay. It's still close. You're good. Yeah.

So were we going to show some? Oh yeah. Do you want to show us a couple of those examples? You said you had pulled up. Oh yeah. I had, there was more I wanted to say about the Mitchells first. Okay. So when I saw that film, which I loved and I watched twice in the same weekend, because it's rare that I love an animated movie that much at my age. But it was the first animated movie about a character who's probably going to grow up and be an animator. I've never seen that before because animators always make

films about musicians or actors or singers, like whatever it is, like animators usually create stories about sort of a, like a stand-in occupation that's more exciting than sitting and drawing at your desk. Like even Soul, I think Pete Docter entertained the idea of making him an animator instead of a jazz musician, but more people can relate to somebody like sitting in a club playing an instrument. It's more visually interesting. But Mitchell's, it's like a girl in her room at her computer, animating and shooting things and cutting things together. She's making movies the way an animator would, like I did in high school.

And it was like an animated movie about an animator. That's a first and the movie's great. So that was exciting. Wouldn't an animation of them just look like a regular movie to us? Whoa. I mean, there's some live action in the film here and there. Yeah. A follow-up question.

You went to high school with Kelly. What was her nickname and what did she get up to? Well, I knew her as Kelly Zabielski. So I think now she goes by her nickname. Unless you legally changed it. What's her nickname now? My nickname's Dumb Bitch. Yeah, we were in choir together.

Kelly Bicot. You were in choir together? Did you crack out a song, the two of you? Give us a bit of a sing song. Hallelujah. No, thanks. Hallelujah. She's Kelly. She's singing. She. Okay, yeah, you do it.

She's got a hard name to pronounce. All right, let's see these examples. All right, so I'll show you guys. For you listening at home, this won't be fun. You're watching on YouTube. I'll paint a picture. I might need you to enable screen sharing. Probably.

Jack, enable screen. Enable screen. Enhance. picture. Yeah. I might need you to enable screen sharing. Probably. Jack, enable screen. Enable screen. Enhance. Computer. Yeah. Wouldn't it be great if that's what being an animator was like? You just bark orders at the computer and then it just. I still would fuck it up.

Make character. Make you look happy. Push the make movie button. Go ahead and try. Reenhance. All right. All right. What are you showing us can you see

can you see this oh yeah that's that's some words okay so this was the first test animation i did for my patreon short film the brave locomotive this is a character named henry the engineer and it was basically just a walk cycle test to figure out the characters. He's smoking. Are you from the 1950s? It's a throwback film to 1940s Disney. So in it, characters, yeah, they smoke. Got a pipe. Yeah, he's got an old-fashioned Popeye kind of pipe.

And all the smoke is saying the word fuck. That's right. It's all swirly because it's like a musical cartoon. He's got some long gloves. He's been doing some sort of proctology. He's been working on the railroad. Yes, he's been working on the railroad. He looks like Liam Gallagher.

Oh, I like how specific that is. I don't know who that is, but. Lead singer from Oasis. Oh, wonderful. I like Liam Gallagher. So how long did that take you to make? Like a couple hours? This is maybe two days of work

two days yeah so I'll turn off some of these layers here so this is a program called TV paint and it's what a lot of Disney animators use nowadays for animating on the computer and I've got there's nothing yeah I got some line layer here I can turn up the opacity

so this is what it looks like when I when you first animate it it's just like a let me set this to and so do you like do you draw it by hand on like an ipad and then then kind of like rig it up or yeah so actually i've got my my stylus here and if i turn the thing around, you can see I'm on a tablet. So it's basically just like a drawing board. Also, also a computer monitor. And that's sensitive enough to do the intricate details just on the monitor. Like that's as good as drawing on paper. It's incredible.

So this is a Wacom tablet and they're, they've been around for maybe almost 20 years now. Can I ask you a question? Whenever I was a kid and I got like a book because I can't draw for shit, but I always liked animation. So you'd get one of those books that were like how to draw Mickey Mouse or how to draw whatever. And there was always cones and circles and stuff. There was like a big circle, then a little circle, then a cone

and all that type of stuff. Is that bullshit or do you circle, then a little circle, then a cone and all that type of stuff. Is that bullshit? Or do you still think of it in that way? You know what I mean? You have to break things down into shapes, you know, otherwise it's just really hard to manage all that information, you know, because instead of seeing just like little lines everywhere, you kind of have to see the overall shape like this. His head is like this big wedge shape or his body is kind of like this, I don't know, pear shape. You kind of have to just break it down in rough form before you start getting into the details because otherwise it becomes difficult to manage. But you kind of

train your eye to see things in big sections, working general to specific. And when you're drawing something like this, are you taking from your life? Are you like picturing an uncle or something else? Or is it just sort of a back catalog of different characters you've seen before? Or is it just completely organic? I mean, in this particular character, I've been told by some of my Disney colleagues that there's a little bit of self-portrait in here, but through the lens of like a 1940s Disney character design style. When I draw this character, I think of like Danny Kaye a little bit too. I think these kind of old timey Hollywood theatrical performers. I wish I was artistic. Okay. So you're very close.

I've got another thing to show. So this is like the modern approach to hand-drawn animation where you're drawing on a computer tablet and instead of flipping paper, you can jump to any frame, change anything at any time. You don't have to film it with a camera because it already exists on the computer. So you can just save it out and it's already moving. So computer animation, even when it's hand-drawn, cuts out a lot of middle processes. Computer animation, even when it's hand-drawn, cuts out a lot of middle processes. The other aspect to this film that I'm involved with is 3D computer animation. So it's about trains.

It's Brave Locomotive. And I joked recently that instead of making a model train set here in my garage, I'm just making an animated film about trains that takes advantage of my skill set as an animator. But 3D computer animation is great because you can make it look 2D. You can make it look like a flat image, but you have the benefit of the computer storing all this information that you don't have to keep drawing over and over again. So this is a character in the film called Samson. He's a giant 1920s style locomotive. And you create this rig and it's basically like a toy that you can play with on the computer and we were speaking about video games earlier this is how video game

technology is done you animate an instance but you can toggle around it and see it playing back in real time almost like a three-dimensional i don't think we're seeing this yeah we can't see samson character i wish okay yeah you can cut that out and i'll just say now think we're seeing this. We can't see Samson yet. Seeing your old character. I want to see Samson. Okay, yeah, you can cut that out and I'll just say it. Now, while we're waiting for Samson, so you have a baby on the way and you know it's going to be a little boy, correct? I do, yeah. When I was really little, like four or five years old, I loved trains, trucks, airplanes, anything that was moving.

And I think part of the fact that I'm revisiting and finishing this film now is in anticipation of having a son, you know, I'll want him to see it and enjoy it. And like, you're, you've got to be the greatest dad going, you make animation about trains and stuff like that for the little kids. But I know this much about children. There's a small chance he won't be interested in any of this. And there might be, he probably will, probably will. But how much of a disappointment will he be if that is the case? Just like, you know, like when you see like athletes and they're like the top basketball players

and then their son doesn't play at all and they're like, no, he's not interested. You know what I mean? Like you can always tell, oh, no, no, no, he's got his own things that he's into. So how much are you going to push this on your kid? My wife went to school for animation and she's a fashion designer. And I loved animation since I was a kid and grew up wanting to do it.

And now I do it. But if he's interested in sports or being a lawyer or being an actor or an accountant or whatever. That's all the jobs in the world. You named all of them. Yeah, it's, it's really fine. I mean, I think animation is, it's a lot of fun, but it's not a way to make big money like a doctor or a lawyer or like a, like a celebrity actor. It's, it's more of a middle-class profession, I would

say financially, like maybe upper middle-class. Really? Disney don't pay you the big bucks for doing this? No, they, they, they pay very well. It's a very good upper middle-. Really? Disney don't pay you the big bucks for doing this? No, they pay very well. It's a very good upper middle class job. You know, I should clarify that. I mean, and they have a good bonus structure and everything, and the directors do really well. So there's opportunity to kind of touch some of that Hollywood,

you know, potential. It must piss you off that at things like Comic-Con, the people who do the fucking voices, they're lining around the corner to fucking get their autograph on a drawing that you have fucking done right like like you know it's like kristen bell does the voice in frozen she was probably in the studio for a day and she gets all the credit all the credit you were working on this thing for fucking years it doesn't it doesn't make me mad though i mean it's kind of like they're sort of

the the real estate investment and then we're the the architectural crew that has to then build on that real estate i mean it's there there's a lot to it i mean people see movies for all kinds of reasons either brand or celebrity or it's a musical and it looks expensive. So I want to see it. There's so many reasons people go see these movies and the five or six individual animators on a team of 800 are probably not one of them. So you have to kind of be okay with that because that's not really what the job's about. But for the people who want it to be about that, yeah, they're probably pretty angry. So, okay. So I was in an animated film, it hasn't come out yet, but I know that,

and probably most people at home know this, the voice is done first, right? And then you're over the top of the voice. Now, when you have a character in something like Frozen or whatever, and you already have, like, you've read the script and the character's meant to be this plucky, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Have you ever, and you don't have to say any names, have you ever had a voice come through where you're like, well, that's not how I imagined it at all? Or it's a little, you know, lower energy than you thought it might be

or anything like that? Or on the flip side, have you ever had voices come in where you're like, that has just made the character. I wasn't even interested in this character until I heard the voice. Yes. I'll answer the latter part of the question first. I wasn't interested in Olaf as a character in Frozen until he was Josh Gad. Josh Gad.

Oh, boy. Josh Gad made that. He made that character. He made that character he made that character but I mean he was only like kind of temp and he was originally played as a more sarcastic kind of character

and then when they made him kind of more like a man child something about it worked in a way that I was like okay people are going to love that character I'm a huge fan of Josh Gad. Oh, I'm looking at you. Wait, did I?

No, no, no. He just thinks he sings too much. He has to sing in every fucking film. He has to find a way to sing in every movie. All right, move on. Fucking, there wasn't a need for Pixel to have a song. Move on. Oh, I haven't seen it.

He sings in that too? Anything. Anything. Anything. Anything. Anything. He could be playing Lee Harvey Oswald in the fucking assassination of Kennedy and he'd find the, I bought my gun on a mailing order.

Like he'd fucking figure out a way to wedge a song in. Good retention of knowledge from the gun episode. Yeah. Yeah, that we had on the podcast. Good job. He probably is friends with more people who are animators at Disney than any voice actor Good retention of knowledge from the gun episode. Yeah. Yeah. That we had on the podcast. Good job. Um, he, he probably is friends with more people who are animators at Disney than any voice actor who's worked there.

He was very, very engaged. Of course, because he wants to gain weight. So he doesn't have to be on screen anymore. He has to go down. Now, did you ever hear,

did you ever hear the story about, um, so Mike Myers originally voiced Shrek and then he voiced it, and I believe half the whole movie was animated, and then he came back and went, I've decided I want Shrek to be Scottish. And they didn't tell him that half of it was made, and they were like, are you sure? And Michael's like, I'm positive.

He's got to have a Scottish accent. Question, how much would that fuck you off? If I was the producer and a lot of it was already animated, I would probably not be happy about it. If I was the animator and I'd only animated maybe a few scenes, I'd be okay with it. Because also before that, that only voiced half of the film had already been voiced by Chris Farley, but Chris Farley had died,

so they'd already started working on Chris Farley stuff so that film is just like so one guy fucking dies this guy wants to be fucking Scottish nightmare yeah and the Chris Farley recordings are from like four or five years before it came out in 2001 so it's like mid late 90s they had a whole storybook version of the movie with Chris Farley yeah have they ever released any of that i don't think he finished the recording so they would have made the movie with him because it would have made probably it would have been a bigger news story to have a i feel like they'd have some take it went through a lot of story changes too i mean animated movies

is kind of like sometimes the way these movies turn out, they play differently as storybook or animation than they are on the page. And then these movies have to check so many boxes, right? Either whether it's merchandise or demographics or whatever it might be, they almost happen so slowly that it's easier to pick them apart in real time. Do you know like actors, so everyone could agree that Eddie Murphy seems to be dynamite in these films from being in Mulan and then being the donkey and all that type of stuff. And I've heard that he just bashes these films out

and he just gives them so many different takes, so many different options. Have you ever had like a pitch meeting where they've come in and they go, and we're going to use this actor? And you're like, what? Like Zac Efron. He doesn't have an interesting voice. Has Zac Efron done one?

I'd like to pitch against that. Probably. Pitch against that. I often feel sorry for the, when I was a kid, the voices of the actors and the thing, they were voice actors. They were specially people. You had your Mel Brooks and even like, who's the guy who did the Beast in Beauty and the Beast?

You don't know who that is. It was some actor or whatever. And now it's just like the most famous person we can get rather than the most interesting voice. I've always thought that I should be in every Australian one as a crocodile. Why am I? Are you going to ask him the question, why am I not? Close your eyes right now.

I actually almost was a crocodile in a DreamWorks one that Tim Mitchum was making about a bilby. The movie never went ahead. But anyway, close your eyes. Okay. Tell me if this doesn't sound like a crocodile right now. That's a crocodile's voice. You've got the crocodile.

You can picture his eyes opening up, and then he's like, all right, what are you up to? All right, now get mad. Ah, you bloody get off me land, you fucking piece of shit. A lot of swearing. Crocodiles don't live on land. Yeah, I live near the swamp, you cunt. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, that was it. Crocodiles don't live on land. Yeah, I live near the swamp, you cunt. Yeah, that was it.

Look at the crocodile. For any crocodile animation coming out, you know where to find me. Okay, Andrew, so this is the end of the podcast. We ask our guests to give us a dinner party fact, something like obscure, interesting. The fact that I was never a crocodile is pretty surprising to anyone.

Our guests can use to impress friends or, you know, coworkers. My name's Snappy. Well, I actually saw something today that was very fascinating to me. So scientists have inserted a gif, or jif if you like, which is usually an image that people share with each other as a meme, little animated image, into the DNA of living bacteria. So we're one step closer to embedding data into our own skin. So they're basically using DNA as a hard drive to store a very small image.

And is that gif of Robert Downey Jr. rolling his eyes? Is that gif of Robert Downey Jr. rolling his eyes? It's actually a gif of a man riding a horse that was photographed by Edward Muybridge in the 1870s. Wow, they were historic with it. Yeah, God, we've gone through all this trouble to get technology. Put a funny in there. Yeah, the scientists were waxing nostalgic about the history of the moving image

so they wanted to put that into the first DNA data storage wow yeah what have you seen for us that was a good podcast

yeah I want to say again Andrew Chesworth his his website is andrewchesworth.com his last name is C-H-E-S just one S-W-O-R-T-H

and you can find links to his Instagram and other, I just followed you on there. A lot of cool animation things, stuff on there. And also don't forget his Patreon that he showed us a little bit of there. The brave locomotive. You can,

they can contribute to that right on Patreon or that. Yeah, that's right. And we're scheduled to wrap in September of this year. And then we'll probably do a few festivals and maybe release it online, either end of the year or early next year. Oh, we'll plug that when it comes out.

Yeah. Also, we have our Patreon. Do you want to see the, the, the Samson model? We didn't get to see that. Sorry.

I can cut that back in. So can you see this 3d model here? Yes. Yeah. So, uh uh because obviously trains are very complicated to animate you don't want to draw all this detail by hand i made a 3d model in maya that's supposed to look kind of like a flat two-dimensional image and the final render will have like sort of line work on it sort of like the iron giant if you've ever seen that oh i love the iron Yeah, it's the same exact technology. In fact, the same software that the Iron Giant was made in. So this train is kind of an Iron Giant himself.

But we're mentioning that video game animation is sort of like instance animation that you can toggle around in real time, almost like you're watching a playback of a virtual puppet without having to move it. So we've got this rig, you know, he's chugging along here and I can look at him from any angle. And this is how you'd create animation for a video game. But this is also the same program we use to create Frozen as well. And then if I turn on these controls here, he actually does have a rig so you can sort of move him around i can angle him that's a little bit slow here one moment yeah sometimes this this program kind of chugs when i'm screen sharing

but yeah you can kind of angle him you know he's probably never going to be at that severe of an angle but you can do that or you can grab his his head and kind of give him a little look to the side there. Oh, right. So you don't have to animate that separately. That'll just happen. Yeah. And then you can take his big glowing eyes and kind of have him look down, give you. Have you, have you backed this up on a hard drive? Yes. I actually have this all backed up on a Google drive.

It would be sad to lose this. It was quite a bit of work, I'm not going to lie. And then he's got these coaches back here, and the coaches are sort of like slightly alive, you know. They're not quite as alive as he is, but they can kind of look around and sort of be aware of their surroundings. So that's kind of fun don't ruin the movie but there isn't a big train crash in there is there everyone's like oh okay

don't tell me i don't want to know i don't want to know i don't want to know well i mean what would you want to see in a cartoon about trains it's probably in here somewhere i'd like i'd like to see uh to see Thomas get his fucking comeuppance. What the fuck is it? Okay. Thomas, the tank engine lives on a fucking Island. Why does it have such intricate fucking railroad systems? Railroads are for your big places. They live on a little tiny Island. Who's like, Oh, we got to ship all this stuff to the other side of the pissy little fucking Island. You can do it with trucks. People. I love that you have a ranch for everything. Yeah.

It's an important thing. I remember wondering that as a kid too. Like, wait, how big is that island? I wondered that as an adult. Yeah, was it the island of Lilliput or something? I don't know. Lilliput? Sodor?

Sodor, yeah. Jesus. I remember I told this story to a friend yesterday. I had the little, you know little die-cast metal Thomas toys when I was like three, four years old. Before I was old enough to watch the shorts and understand them, I just knew I liked the train, but I didn't know why it had this weird face on it,

and I would try to take off the plastic face. And then when I watched the films, I was like, okay, it's like- It's supposed to be there. It's supposed to be there. But watching the films, they would like, okay, it's, it's supposed to be there. It's supposed to be there. But watching the films, you know, they would kind of stage it in a way where it looks like these things are going to like, look at you and eat you. They're like monsters. And so I wanted to get some of that feeling into this, that monster feel that feels a

little bit unintentional in Thomas. It's intentional here. All right. So who is the voice of Ringo Starr, America? Oh, Ringo Starr. There you go. There's the answer. Ringo Starr. Ringo Starr. Who who was the voice of Ringo Starr, America? Oh, Ringo Starr. There you go. Ringo Starr. Who did it in America? Ringo Starr. George Carlin did it in America.

Yes, Carlin did the voice. Now the big difference is, so he was like, alright there, Thomas, time to pull into the station. Oh no, the fat controller. Like that, right? And so over here, you just called him the controller. You didn't want to call him the fat controller. Like that, right? That's perfect. Over here, you just called him the controller. You didn't want to call him the fat controller

because he just looked like every other American. The American controller. Perfect. All right. So I hope I've upset some folk. Thanks for being on the podcast, Andrew. We really appreciate it. That was very informative.

I think we had one of our longest podcasts ever. We were talking and talking there. So to our advertisers, pay double. Ladies and gentlemen, if you're ever at a party and someone comes up to you and goes, you know that Oswald the Rabbit was your first animated thing, go, I don't know about that, and then walk away. You go, it was Felix the Cat, you dumb cat. Good night, Australia.