I Don't Know About That - Autism

Episode Date: October 20, 2020

In this episode, the team discusses autism with director of Netflix's "Love on the Spectrum", Cian O'Clery and sexologist, counselor, and special education teacher, Jodie Rodgers.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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promo code IDK. Space. Both outer and in the back of your car. space both outer and in the back of your car and cables, sure why not you might find out about this but I don't know about Jim Jefferies

I don't know about that one I am Jim Jefferies, seamless that took seven takes everybody at home Jim thinks about these right before we do this I'm Jim Jefferies. Seamless. Seamless. No. That took seven takes. Everybody at home, Jim thinks about these right before we do this. And he stared into the distance for a few minutes. He goes, got it. That's what he came out with.

I thought you were going to say inner. Outer and inner. No, no, no. I thought you were going to say personal. You've got a bit of space in the back of your car. Yeah, personal would have been good. Yeah, personal would have been good. Yeah, personal would have been good. I was thinking, Luis, because he has to put a picture up in the back of your car.

That's easy if I go personal. I guess that's a good picture as well. Oh, you were thinking of Luis. And then at the end, I panicked, and we have a lot of cables running along the floor. Cables, sure. Why not? Cables, both the TV and the ones that you tie on things that one was so good

to this point we've only done one of those we've done bees that's the only one that we've done space yeah we've done space oh yeah we've done moon landing we've done things on space not the space in the back of your car that's gonna be a hell of an episode i can't wait for that why is there space back there well you don't know good know. We need to put things, man. Yeah, yeah. Well, what if it wasn't originally for that? What do you do if you see a spaceman? High five him?

Park in it, man. So stupid. I hate it. That was a joke when I was a kid. That's not my joke. Oh, that wasn't a joke when you were an adult? No. That's on the next special.

I do that joke with my son, and he doesn't get it. I'm like, park in it, man. And he doesn't get it i'm like parking it man and he doesn't get the reference of a hippie or whatever you know he doesn't fucking like does he get the parking part not really yeah he's never going to he's never going to drive probably probably probably he'll just just uber or there'll be cars that will drive themselves probably never drive which is for the best you know because when what we were kids I had a friend die when we were 16. It was the worst. They were giving cars that were worth 400 bucks, like we were buying them for 400 bucks

to the worst drivers with no airbags. And we were all fucking driving really recklessly. Yeah, that is true. When you get your first car, you're like, now this is a piece of shit. Now you're not a very experienced driver. So we're going to give you a piece of shit without airbags. Good luck. You know anti-lock brakes?

This has lock brakes. This is lock up. I could see the road through the floor of my car. It was good because that emptied the water out. Are you a French Flintstone? It was only a little hole, but I could see. It was the size of a cricket ball, a baseball, do you? And the same size ball.

Thereabout. Now someone's going to write at me, actually the cricket ball is one millimeter in dimensions. Shut up, you fucking nerd. Get your own podcast. Oh, boy. All right. Speaking of comments.

Oh, yeah. Do we have comment world this week, Jack? Yeah, we do. All right. Everyone's happy it's back, I'm sure. Yeah. I think I turned off. I think I read a comment where someone missed it.

Yeah, that's what I was saying. I'm shocked that people like it. There are two theme songs that were sent in. We only need one. We can do one a week. Comment World. It's Comment World. Reading comments off the internet in Comment World.

Opinionated fucks, well for we don't give a shit so fuck them in the ass and let's be done with it it's common yeah it gets a little aggressive that song halfway through yeah fucking you know you don't want to hear the hear the uh the second verse it's like i've hid the body she's. Stabbed her in the neck and then I came. That was the same person that gave us the Judging a Book by its cover? No. Okay. Sounds like it. Sounds like the same. You have the person's name? This is, I don't know. Which, by the way, we

will need to edit that in. This is from a young boy called Harvard Weinstein from San Quentin. Yeah, his full name... Harvard. From San Quentin. Yeah, his full name's Harvard. He's very smart. What is Harvey short for?

It feels like it's short. Is it a full name? Hartford or something? I don't know. I think... I don't know. It might just be Harvey. I don't know.

I feel like Harvey's a short name. A short and long... It's probably the same letters for the full name, but Harvey's like a nickname. Are you thinking of Harry? Because Harry would be Harold. No, Harry is short for William. Harry? No, Harry's short for...

Harold. Is it? Oh, sure. Oh, no, Bill's short for William. How the fuck did Bill come from William? And Bob from Robert. Oh, I don't like it. Jack from John.

Dick from Richard is... Jack and John are the same fucking amount of letters. You're not helping me out. Also, who is the person, right, with the fucking internet, who wanted to shorten the word at into a symbol? It's a two-letter word, and now we have to go control over the two. Yeah, but that's for emails. You have to separate it so that you see it's an email address.

Give me a little button, email, squiggle. Make a new thing. Like at, at, A with a circle. It's not saving me any time. It's not a time saver. I think it's to chop it up so that it knows what the address is at the end. Why don't you marry it? It's going to come, it will.

Did we find out about Harvey? It says it's not short for Harvold that's all i know the person who sent it his instagram handle is at at text v-r-e-s underscore i don't know v-r-e-s verse text vrez underscore vrez sweet nothing wrong with my spelling people were pissed we didn't do Comment World in the past couple episodes. People or person? Was there one person or people? There were multiple comments. How many?

By the same person? I only screenshotted a couple. People were cross-platform upset no Comment World. Yeah. So thanks, everybody. It's back. It's back. People miss your dulcet tones.

No, he still did stuff. We're still going to do stuff. We're going to still do comment world, but we'll... It won't be as often, so the comments will be meaningful. This is the bit where Jack shines. I have to turn away. I'm getting blinded. I read what other people came up with off of a computer.

Some people wrote in and just were saying where they were listening from, which I thought was interesting. Oh, where were they listening from? Papua New Guinea. Oh, yes. Yeah, we knew that, though. Right next to Mama New Guinea. Uncle New Guinea.

Have you ever been to the original Guinea? Lovely place. We have someone listening from the Madeira Island. That's where the pigs come from. Madeira Island, Portugal. They said it's somewhere in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. And then someone says, temporary Texan here. Temporary Texan?

I guess they may or may not stick around. Oh, why? I don't know. They didn't go into it. But they're from Texas. They're just there to vote. I'll say this about the liberals. Left-wing people, when they don't like a president that's coming in, they do this.

They go, oh, if he can vote in again, I i'm leaving there was comedians who said they were going to move to canada right they never left shut up you're not going to leave right i'll be leaving if he gets in again do the right wing people do that yes do they oh if they if we had hillary i'm leaving this country yeah and you know i was saying this the other day there's this one it's it's always whatever happens whatever side, the other side says the same exact shit. I'm leaving. This country's going to go to shit. You know what?

I always think it's funny. There's whenever a president gets elected, they always make these countdown clocks that it has like the president on there for the people that hate them. It's like countdown till they're out of office. And it was like they had one for Obama. They have one for Trump. They had one for. But they just slap a new sticker on the front. That company they're gonna be in business forever because they're like all right who won it was like make the stickers my my father loves trump he loves him like he's

turned 79 happy birthday dad uh my father loves trump i'm not saying anything that he wouldn't say himself he's watched the debate about seven times and now he just quotes the debate like it's fact. Like he just goes, you know what's wrong with that Biden? He's been in government for 39 years, and he's done nothing. And I go, well, he must have done something. He doesn't like his track record. And I go, well, what did Trump do? He's built things.

Oh, he's built things, mate. He's built America. That's what my dad reckons. He's built things. Oh, he's built things, mate. He's built America. That's what my dad reckons. He's built things. By the way, the island of Madeira looks awesome. Yeah. Holy shit. But, you know, just like these, it's not really.

It sounds like a liqueur. It's off the coast of Morocco, even though Portugal might own it. When we go on tour, let's make sure we do a stop there. Okay. Great. We'll go on the island of Madeira. Hello to all those people living there how are you all doing all seven of you thanks for the downloads um on the episode when we were uh it

was expert on experts and we were asked to um say what we were experts in this person commented that we're all experts in derailing conversations she seems accurate i can. That's what they just did. Fucking loser. We were having a lovely show. Join the club. A lovely show. We were all getting along and then fucking negative Nelly comes in with a, I don't like how conversations are doing.

Go to a podcast where one person is talking by themselves, you fucking knob sucker. Downloads are down. this comment takes an interesting turn it starts off with id cap jim takes this 20 minute podcast lasts for almost one hour and a half guy is hilarious thumbs up and what the hell tbs replaced seinfeld's seinfeld with the george lopez show angry face yeah because there's no way to watch the programs we want to watch when we want to watch like that guy still shows up to tv like at six o'clock he's driving home quick to make it home to get seinfeld i feel like he just wanted to get the last part out and he was like here's

some people that'll listen to me yeah they'll agree yeah what the hell is that and the seinfeld show has been replaced by george lopez what the fuck you're sincerely michael richards i i will say just as you're mentioning that somebody wrote to me on twitter and said hey forest you recommended a twitter handle a quokka every hour as i really like and apparently they haven't tweeted since september and they asked me if i could do something about it i was like i, I don't know the clock of people. I'll try my best. Get him on the horn for us.

Yeah, he just watched the other pictures. It's like if porn went away, we still have enough to watch. There's still enough pictures of crockers. Yeah, you scroll back in the feed, but it was nice that one did pop up every hour. It really watered down your feed. Did we read this review on a previous episode i don't know i don't know comment world guys your job i'll feel i'll feel you in on something jack

i haven't read anything for months this is your job jack so this is a review called don't listen to the hate oh boy five stars for the record this show is genius first all, there is a woman on there, Kelly. Smoking hot blonde. She is secretly plugging her OnlyFans. Every episode, she is dropping hints at a coder link. Wait, that's really funny because I did make an Instagram post today about a fake OnlyFans account. This is from September. They go, there's this mentally handicapped boy named Jack. He is just so sweet and tries real hard

very endearing Forrest he says he's a comedian I think it's one of those things that's said ironically then there's Jim I don't believe the height then there's Jim his years of drinking and drug usage have left him

perma fried he babbles incoherent nonsense. It's like giving Ozzy Osbourne his own platform. This show is amazing. Five stars. Thank you, Ganelon76 from the United States. You know what you're talking about. Go fuck yourself.

Five stars. All right. Any more, Jack? A couple more. Someone watching that plastic bottle of iron brew alone, surrounded by disrespect, made by Scottish soul. God bless Kelly. I was saying I liked it. Surrounded by disrespect.

Sitting there alone. Hey. Freedom. sitting there alone hey freedom and then the last bit is people are upset we've never gotten to that story we keep pushing because we're busy oh we're gonna do that right now right oh i can tell you the story no we can't do it today all right all right mac weldon is a premium men's essential brand that delivers in smart designs and high-quality fabrics. Mack Weldon offers a one-stop shop for men's basics. You know your basics.

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So please be sure to use the promo code jim at bluetooth.com use the code what is it going to hurt you free erection five bucks shipping you just got to type in jim get it get into it come on give them what they want uh let's introduce our guests uh please welcome to the show kian o'cleary and Jody Rogers. Hello. Good morning. I can only tell they're Australian, so can I ask the questions? So Kian and Jody, this is the part of the show called Judging a Book by Its Cover. Jim does not know what we are going to be talking about today, so he's trying to guess what you guys have come on the show

to talk about by asking yes or no questions. Okay, before I start this, I have to reference something that Forrest said to me about four days ago. Forrest said, the next subject we're doing is quite serious, so behave. I'm so bloody warned you. We've got two Australians, I'm gonna assume it's not pies and didgeridoos.

It's going to be, are you involved in the plight of the indigenous people of Australia? No. All right. Okay, good. That could have gone horribly wrong. Are you scholars? Are you academics?

No. No. No. Jodie, you can tell she's Australian because she puts an E on the end of her nose. Americans go mad for that. I've learned to say no like that, but we go, no. No. Okay, so you're not scholars.

Do you work with the environment? Nope. Nope. No. Okay. Do you want a hint? Yeah, I would. Okay.

I think you've seen Jodie before. You haven't seen Kim before. No. No. Okay. Do you want a hint? Yeah, I would. Okay. I think you've seen Jodie before. You haven't seen Kim before. In person? No. Oh, okay. Let me have a look at Jodie. Oh, yeah. She's taking her glasses off.

It was a real Superman moment there. Now he's got it. How daisy a bitch was Lois Lane Let's just talk about it All those years she worked with Clark Kent And nothing And then she was dating Superman And the guy takes his glasses

The worst disguise in history In the superhero it was the first disguise It was like when someone wrote the first comic With Superman They just went oh just give him some glasses Everyone else is wearing a ring Where they morph into a different person Guys, it was like when someone wrote the first comic book of Superman, they just went, oh, just give him some glasses. Everyone else is wearing a ring where they morph into a different person. They swill around.

This guy just wore fucking glasses. Why were they Australian in the first comic book? I think you just did. No, they weren't Australian. You just did it. That's how I read it. Oh, okay. Have you seen any of my acting?

I can't do accents. Okay, so you've seen it before. Okay, so I've seen it before uh did you used to work at st ives high as a teacher in some way no i was once a teacher but i've never at st ives high oh did you teach history no i didn't what did you teach you can answer that one. I'm letting you. I'm breaking the rules. I'm letting you. I taught within the special education area. Oh, okay. Okay, so now I don't know. Yeah, because I might have given it away the other day when I asked. So I've already seen it before.

She works with dyslexics. No. Works with disabled people. No, no, no, no. You're not going to get it. You've seen the show, Love on the Spectrum. Oh, Love on the Spectrum. I watch Love on the Spectrum.

Yes, yes. She appears on the show, and Kian is the director of the show. And we're talking about autism today. Autism, okay. Yeah. All right. So let me introduce Jodie Rogers. She has a master's degree in sexology and is a qualified teacher,

special educator, and counselor. Jodie has worked within the education and community sectors in both Australia and internationally and has extensive experience working with people with intellectual disability and autistic people. When you say degree in sexology, is that? Sorry. Jodi's private practice, Birds and Bees, specializes in delivering counseling services for people with disability with a focus on sexuality, sexual health, and relationships, as well as delivering training for other professionals.

Will that answer my question? Yeah. I don't know if you've seen my stand-up, but I took a person with muscular dystrophy to a brothel in Melbourne. I did. That was a thing I did maybe about 11 years ago. I took a friend of mine who's since passed, but he wanted to go to a brother.

It was one of my best friends and his brother. And so my friend asked me and we took him out to the brothel and all that type of stuff. And then he got a blowjob. We wouldn't let him have full sex because we were worried that he, because he died a couple of times already, right? We were worried that his heart would give out, right? And so we negotiated with the

guy we said we'll take you but you're only getting a blow job no full sex and he and so he agreed and then we took him in there we undressed him and then we stood out the front of the door just like god i hope you don't bloody die and i looked at me mate and i said your mom doesn't like me already you know like this is not going to improve my relationship with your parents right anyway they they still don't know but if they're listening um anyway so if you've done the stand me already. This is not going to improve my relationship with your parents. Anyway, they still don't know, but if they're listening. You've done the stand-up special. I've done the stand-up special. Maybe they won't piece it together. Anyway, so the next time, so I go off, I do a stand-up special that involves this story. Then

I do a whole sitcom called Legit, which the pilot episode was based around this whole situation. Then I come back and I see my mate Dan and I said, did you watch the show? And he goes, oh, you owe me. Bloody, you've made a lot of money out of bloody the story, that kind of stuff. And I said, you know what? You're right. And I said, I'll take you to the brothel again. Right.

So I went to take him to the brothel again, thinking this was the second time he'd ever had a blowjob. I walk in and they greet him like he's Norm from Cheers. They all go, There's like a fucking mug with his name on it. It turns out that he'd given this sop story to every fucker who had ever entered his bedroom. He goes about once a week. That's amazing. our other guest today kian o'cleary is a two-time australian directors guild award-winning director

and producer his latest series love on the spectrum followed the stories of young adults on the autism spectrum as they navigate the world of dating and relationships originally made for australia's public broadcaster it has been picked up by netflix and released globally uh kian started out working on feature films, working jobs ranging from a cat trainer on Babe, Pig in the City. Love that movie. I love that movie. Magnus Zabanski played me mom in Legit.

It's Baz Luhrmann's driver on Australia to set P.I. Matrix 2 and 3. And Kian's attracted to projects that have something to say while remembering who they are for the audience. So thank you for both being here, Kian and Jody. Can you just say a few things just about the show? I i mean we'll talk about it a little bit later too i watched a little bit of the show like two days ago i've seen it a few times yeah can you just talk about uh the show love on the spectrum and how the two of you came to meet i don't know if you knew jody ahead

of time right just a little bit of background between the two of you so well yeah i guess we um we came up with the idea for the show uh after working on other projects with people with disabilities so we worked with a lot of people with autism before um so i came up with the concept for the show and we developed it and i got funding which was great because it's actually quite hard to get an original idea up in Australia and we we started moving ahead with the show and we were looking for people who we could feature in the series that would offer support to some of our guys who were wanting it and needing it in terms of social skills dating skills and yeah we we just came across Jodie one day and it was one

of those moments where we instantly knew that she was the right person. You know, as soon as we kind of started talking to her, we knew she'd be great. She's just so, you know, warm and engaging and human and very different to a lot of, I guess, specialists that you might see or that you might meet who might be quite dry. and um yeah as you can see she's just such a warm and and uh you know it's coming through the zoom in spades no how did you find the people to be on the show because normally for a reality show you advertise and then people i imagine especially the people with the level of

autism you have because i know there is a spectrum that goes you know if you want to give it 100 scale there's the people who are mildly autistic to severely autistic um how did how did how did you find the people the not contestants contestants is a bad word i don't know that the subjects the people you exploited no i'm kidding no how did you how did you how did you find them yeah well we call them we call them participants that's the word i was bloody looking for participants yeah well look at every possible way you can imagine except the way that you would find people for a reality show so um every way possible bar casting agents you know so um disability employment organizations uh support groups social groups i mean we even went to comic conventions with a big sign and a desk saying here this is what

we're doing because we know that a lot of people on the spectrum are in that kind of comic convention. Went to the casino, who's counting cards? Yeah. We kind of did everything you could possibly imagine in terms of trying to spread the word. And it was all about spreading the word about what we're doing and then waiting for people to come to us who expressed interest in being a part of the show. interest in being a part of the show and and like you said when we talk about diversity you know we really wanted to to feature a real range of people in the spectrum as much as you can within this space so at the end of the day it's all about who actually wants to be in a relationship who wants to date um so you know yeah we tried every every which way possible even you know contacting specialists such as jody and saying who do you know that might be interested and and just spreading the word through throughout the country as much as

we could and joe and you were and so you guys worked on another show together so you're a couple other shows together that you were saying not with not with jody no no this is the first time jody's shaking her head in a way to say never again. I've never been involved in anything like that. I've never been involved in television or ever experienced a camera. This was completely foreign for me. I'll tell you something, Jodie. I've never been involved in Australian television either. And I actively tried for years.

You're ahead of Jim Jefferies. You're doing way better than Jim. Well, you were great on TV. I thought so. And I was like, I was saying the other day, because we were talking to both of you, I just, I think it was really, the thing that I really thought was great about the show

was the humanizing factor of it, but also it was just like using this thing, dating, which is really scary to everybody and then showing that you know people that are on autism spectrum that it's like it really kind of you make this equating equally equalizer the equalizer leveling the playing field and then it's just you immediately identify with them like yeah i've been in that situation where you're just sitting in the corner at a restaurant waiting for someone to come in and you're you're you're freaking out about like just having that talk you know so yeah you think you're wearing your best outfit you're ready to go

everybody knows that first date fear yeah yeah i was telling jody it's like such a heartwarming series honestly like because i think most of the time when when there's anything done on uh disabilities or anything like that there's this over overlying tone that's a little morose and sad. But the way you guys portrayed that, it just really showed how people with autism can live great full lives and and have love and be happy. And it was just like every moment of it, I thought, was really special. So kudos to you guys. I know.

I know Amy Schumer is a big champion of the show. She's tweeted a lot about it. Do you know that? Yeah, yeah, we did notice that yeah that was great that was really nice to see i mean it's quite a strange experience for for us you know being australian tv producers to kind of suddenly have the show hitting netflix globally it was it was a big thing so you know that was really exciting and i think actually quite a lot of people in the comedy community in in the states have responded to it which is great we have

we have a lot of autistic comedians like we do i had a doctor one say that i may be or something like that but there's such a hard thing to gauge i think i'm just awkward so here's what we're going to do uh jerry seineld claims he is now. Oh, does he? Yeah. What's the deal? So we thought it would be a good idea to have you guys come on and talk about autism. And maybe people that are listening to this can learn about it if they don't know about it. Because I don't think a lot of people think they know about it, but they probably don't. I think I know a little bit about it. Yeah.

So we'll see. So I'm going to ask Jim what he thinks he knows about autism, and we're going to prod him along with some questions. You guys can just listen in. I'll take some notes, like as we're going along too, and then we're going to grade Jim on how well he did. You guys being the experts are going to grade him on a scale of 0 to 10, 10 being the best on his knowledge.

Kelly is going to grade him 0 to 10 on confidence, and I'm going to grade him 0-10 on et cetera. We've never done this, Jim, but here's what I propose today. If you score 21-30, that's the highest you can do. I'll make a donation to the charity of their choice. 11-20 will split it, and 0-10 you have to make the whole thing. Wait a minute. They're Australian.

It may not be autism. It could be some white supremacist group. No, no. It's going to be an autism charity. 20 will split it and zero to 10 you have to make wait a minute they're australian there's no it may not be autism it could be some white supremacist no no it's gonna be an autism charity all right good good good good good good just so we're all i don't know what i should have discussed those guys with you further but earlier if there's a if there's a specific charity you can reach out to us afterwards and we'll post that all right you get as far as going to donate no matter what money's getting done all right okay. Okay. Good for you. And as a quick note. I'll double your donation for us. Wait, wait.

You're donating if you get zero through 10. You double that one. I'll double any of them. I'm doubling my own. I'll double any of them. As a quick note, we were talking to Jody yesterday, and the vocabulary and vernacular surrounding this, it seems to be ever evolving. So there probably are terms that we use that we aren't realizing are outdated.

So please feel free to school us on that if we ever get to that point. Why are you giving that caveat? Like, oh, I'm just going to start saying terrible things. No, no, no, because even the way that we got some of the questions, we're just on an outdated site and stuff like that. So things change rapidly.

We want to make sure that we're accessing, you know. All right. Yeah, but that's the point of us doing the podcast. Yeah. Everyone learns. Because we're learning stuff. All right. So, all right, Jim, what is autism?

Autism is a nerve thing where things don't quite compute. You don't translate things in your mind completely correct. It may show up in things. You get agitated very easily. compute you don't you don't translate things in your mind completely correct you may it may show up in things uh you get agitated very easily you have problems with making eye contact don't listen to others sometimes when they talk uh that type of thing it was only diagnosed though in i want to say like the 80s or something like that i learned that from the vaccination thing and that's why a lot of people think that vaccinations have something to do with autism because the spike in people being anti-vaxxers came out around the same time that autism was more widely you don't think that though just so

they know i know you don't but what you're an you're not an anti-vaxxer i'm not an anti-vaxxer no no no the spike in people believing in anti-vaxxing, it came around the same time, diagnosing more people with autism. And that was a parallel thing. So the anti-vaxxers went, ha-ha, when we used to have autistic people all the time, but they were just called odd or awkward or whatever. You know what I mean? And now, you know, there's lots of things that developmentational or learning difficulties, such as attention deficit disorder or whatever that have come up through the decades and now people rather than just being called like if someone was called stupid they can't read now there's dyslexia has come in and we we started

to figure out what these issues are and that just coincided with the anti-vaxxers movement so what are common traits you mean enlisted son you said no i can't take the problem that not being able to um compute what other people are saying to you instructions and stuff like that i i learned from the asperger's or us buster that there's several of them are late i don't know if that's anything that might just be the four guys from what what did you there's a there's a comedy troupe called asperger's or us which hbo did a comedy special on where there are four guys and they traveled around the country. Oh, yeah, you mentioned that.

Yeah, I mentioned they travel around the country doing stand-up comedy and sketches. And it's very weird because they always complain that they go, everyone's coming because they have a relative with Asperger's or something. We want people to just come for the comedy. And it's like, well, you did put that in the title. You're really.

So you say tardiness? I think that might be just those people. It might just be a coincidence. But also obsession on a single task. Okay. Where they reckon that in the NFL, more people have Asperger's who feel goal kickers. Because it's a repetitive task that they can nail and do over and over and over again but it could it could it could be something that addresses itself in you're obsessed with numbers or a thing or models or something but you you get they get obsessive about things okay um

how is it diagnosed doctors do that okay thank you so not mechanics it's done by doctors and uh that's how they do it okay well they put you through a few tests they make you do a few doctors tests i have a feeling you might be donating today uh is it a physical, emotional, or behavioral disorder? It's all three. Okay, all three. Yeah, it's all three. Less physical than anything else, but they can get very easily agitated. If you touch them or grab them, people who don't know come close to them.

They can physically repel from that type of thing. Emotional because they can get frustrated very easily. and intellectual because their brains are wired slightly differently okay when just so you know i don't know if i mentioned this we will go back through all these questions so they can be corrected you can correct you can correct me very when was the first person diagnosed with autism and do you know who it was um uh uh it was a german guy called asperger and it was in no i don't know what do you mean why would i know that do you know when do you know when the i would i would say 1982 1982 okay um and then asperger's syndrome you just mentioned that yeah what how what is that i don't know the difference man don't know that know the difference. I don't know about that. Is there any group more likely than another to be diagnosed with autism?

What do you mean? Like whites? What are you trying to say? I feel like men have it more than women. I feel like it's more prevalent with men. That might be because just men are awkward. You know what I like if you meet jack he's just awkward you know what i mean okay like but that's fine as far as a group i'm gonna say more men than women yes okay and that so there was a follow-up question um does it affect boys and girls equally no i believe men

get it more okay because we have to approach women to ask them on dates and so women that could go undiagnosed for years while we're all just awkwardly walking up to you going oh you're pretty it's more obvious with us are these doctors going to the bars like if you're a hot chick we can't find out any condition you have no one knows anything besides your hotness okay according to cdc data maybe you guys have different data i don't know um in that came out in 2020 based on 2016 data uh one and how many children have an autism oh on the spec it's it's quite high um i'm gonna say one in 20 like like on the spec and then like like one in 30 severely or something like that it could be one in 10 mildly and then 1 in 20 severely.

Okay, are numbers going up or down? Numbers are going up, but a lot of people argue that's because diagnosing it is going up. Or it's getting... Because diagnosing is going up? Yeah, because it's becoming more... People are citing it a lot quicker. It's like the idea of getting a COVID test. You won't be positive for COVID if you don't get the test.

Yeah, exactly. That's why we shouldn't have any tests exactly um how is autism treated um there's i don't know if there's any as i said i had a doctor say that on my okay so i don't know if there's a medication as such but i believe therapy is is the main way i don't know if there's a magic pill okay so you don't know okay i think i think know if there's a magic pill. Okay, so you don't know. Okay. I think there's a lot of, like with any learning disability, there's a lot of therapy and a lot of, because one of the problems that people with autism has is not that they're stupid or anything like that, but they have to be taught in a different way.

The way they compute, the way that they take in information, because many of them are extraordinarily smart. And so it's just different learning patterns. I don't know if that's a word for therapy. What about cannabis? Can that help? Always. Always.

Not as much as cocaine. I hear that cocaine is your number one treatment for autism oh really rain man was counting cards more than he needed to um what can parents family members do to help children or adults with autism on a disorder we'll get the diagnosis as quickly as possible and then go through the therapy and then also join support groups and whatnot where other people have children with autism. And, you know, you don't feel alone in society when you meet other people. There's a couple of questions I missed in here.

Age range of most people diagnosed? Like what age? Oh. Do they get, it's like the most... It's the most common age. I think the sweet spot is sort of 7 to 14 is when you get diagnosed. Okay. And then I think I did.

I think they can tell even earlier. But I have a friend whose child has autism. They found out about 5 or something like that. Oh, here's an important one. What are the most common misconceptions about autism? The misconception that they're all extraordinarily good at numbers. I don't know. I've already made some jokes about that.

But that's a thing that they're, you know. That's because of the movie probably. Well, the reason, it's not the numbers. It's not that they're naturally good at numbers, but they do fight. They get obsessive about tasks. So if they choose that to be their task, they can get very good. But it isn't the autism that's making them. But that's a misconception.

Misconception that they're actually counting better because of the autism. So counting is the only misconception. Oh, fucking. What do you want me to say? You mentioned that it's caused by vaccines. Yeah, yeah. Caused by vaccines. Not caused by vaccines.

Yeah, that's a big one. That's a misconception. Why are you trying to make me. But I already said that earlier. I said it earlier. I said it earlier. Okay. I think we're good.

We're going to go back through this. All right. Thank you for listening, Jodie and Kian. On a scale of zero to ten, ten being the best, how did Jim do on his knowledge of autism? I thought you did pretty well, Jim. Oh, thank you. Some of it was terrible, though.

Some of it was terrible? I'll give you, I think seven and three quarters. That's Australian for you because she goes, some of it was pretty good, but you had a go. What do you think, Ken? Yeah, do you agree, Ken?

Seven, three quarters? Yeah, it was pretty similar I think, yeah. Some pretty good answers. Some quite well informed. I think maybe you learned a lot from Love on the Spectrum, Jim, I'm hoping. I think I did some pretty good answers some quite well informed I think you maybe you learned a lot from love on the spectrum Jim I'm hoping I think I did okay oh I reckon seven and a half all right we'll split seven and a half and three quarter seven and five eight just give me a solid 15 no no they were not combining them no they're averaging that's just their average yeah okay seven and a half seven point six yeah you with the lowest score. All right. Talk about people with numbers. Kelly, confidence?

I actually thought he did better than you portrayed in confidence. So I'm going to give you a 6 in confidence. You don't want to be too confident with medical things. Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean? With other things like strongman competition, I can just be confident and it doesn't matter. But if I go autism, it's because of the aliens have you watched ancient aliens they came down if i do that

too confidently i'm fucked so i gotta be a bit tentative that's a good point okay um so and etc i'm just gonna give you a 10 because you said you'd match the donation anyways and that way you and i both donate and so your combined score 23 and a half uh what's a good i should have asked you this for what uh i i think since your show is based in australia and you guys are nice enough to be on here is there a specific charity that you would know like related to autism that is um jody or keen or don't you think about that one what do you reckon jody i mean jody works for one before but um there's a few others is your is your organization a charity the birds and the bees the no i'm i'm in private practices we can edit this

all out all this all this meandering around by the way let's just cut to the chase give me an autistic person i'll buy him a hooker that's the big charitable thing i like to see where the money goes we'll talk about it afterwards and i'll give 250 dollars and jim will match and we'll get 500 to whatever charity you think is good and then i think the point of that is just if if you know locally whether whatever country you're listening to this and you know if you're looking for something to donate to you know look to your local charities we'll put it up on our facebook page you want to see where we're going okay so let's get started uh what is autism? Jim said it's nerves.

Neurological. Neurological. You didn't say that at the time. Yeah, but that's what nerves means. Fucking hell. Travel, computing things. I don't call legs walking sticks either. Yeah.

Can you give us, even though Jim did a good job, can you give us a better answer for what is autism? Either one. Well, I actually was laughing about the nerve, but I understand because it is a neurological disorder. Yeah. And, you know, people have it prior to birth. It's from in utero.

So, yeah. And it's lifelong neurological. But I had written down nerve with a question mark. I would have got an extra quarter point if I said neurological. That was the word I was looking for. Saying, oh, it's a nervy thing. I told you there's some vocabulary that has been updated. It takes me a while.

I got the word neurological. Look, you're a doctor. Look at the diploma behind you. Medicine, college, or diploma university. Neurological. Ne neurological, neurological, okay. And then some common traits. Jim said no eye contact. They have trouble computing or communicating. I'm talking about my own problems. Never calling girls

back obsessive over things. are what are some some common traits of autism do you want to answer that jody i think jody's kind of got more to say on this the obsessions thing i think was really spot on as well having a special interest is something a lot of people have a really strong interest in something such as you know mark with with his dinosaurs in the show um but i'll let jody talk about the other ones people being late that's probably not as common i would say um people being exceptionally on time is probably more common wouldn't it be jody yeah well i mean you got to remember everybody's different we'll probably we'll probably be able to get to that

when jim's talking about how many people are actually on the spectrum of autistic. But even something like eye contact, people think that the eye contact is a trait of autism. And originally, you know, in the time that I've worked with people, the diagnosis has changed three or four times. And originally it was people with autism didn't give eye contact. And that was one of the things that was a diagnostic criteria, but that's not true anymore. What we actually talk about is I'm taking my glasses off for you, Jim, so I can show you.

Okay. What? Who's this? One of the things they talk about is how we – it's more about how we use our eyes for communication. So they talk about eye gaze. So the same thing would be is that you may not because you just said you've got problems with this Jim but it's if if I just penetrably looked

at somebody with my eyes and never ever broke eye contact ever that's also not kind of a typical way we use our eyes we use our eyes continually for communication so I could use my eyes to tell somebody to pick something up by looking at them, looking at the object, looking back at you. We can do that quite quickly. So it's what we call eye gaze or the use of the way that we use our eyes. Some people on the spectrum hate eye contact with another person. Some people just really look at other people with outbreaking eye contact

or sometimes they don't use their eyes in a similar way um so that's changed quite a bit and when you were talking about we talk about focus so i call it the again and again and agains and jim you called it sort of you were saying oh you do it you know continually but there's a part of autism that's called repetitive and restricted interests and behavior and that's a diagnostic criteria and that can be a really focused special interest on one area or several things and sometimes that can be a brilliant focus and it can really increase somebody's life into being extraordinary. Sometimes if that focus is something,

sometimes the focus inhibits somebody's life. Like if it's murder. Yes, serial killer. That wouldn't be great. But that's not what, often it could be something like, say somebody's got a massive focus where they become obsessed Often it could be something like, say, somebody's got a massive focus where they become obsessed with gambling or poker machines or, you know, see, it can become. Have you seen Speed Cubers?

What's that? Speed Cubers. Is that Rubik's Cube? It's the Rubik's Cube. That lad who was, there was an Australian guy. Well, I love on the spectrum. I forget who it was, but he, he was the one that was getting married. Watch Speed Cube.

It's very interesting. There was an Australian bloke who was very good at it, and then there was this one kid who just was constantly solving Rubik's Cubes all day, all day. And it's a beautiful movie about the bond that these two had. Oh, it's a movie. Oh, it's a documentary. It's a documentary, but it's a very sweet film.

Oh, yeah. Okay. And then So Obsessive, that's what you were saying. And then anything else? Or is that... Yeah, usually just the diagnosis is looking for what we call differences.

I always think about the bell curve. Like we all kind of have differences in areas, but it's the impact on your day-to-day life and and diagnostically they look for um two areas social communication so how we interact with each other and how easy it is for people to interact with each other and that repetitive and restricted interest and behavior now i don't i don't mean to be a contrarian here or something okay so is there is what's the word i want to use here is there a danger that that we can over diagnose people because when i was a kid i was diagnosed with attention deficit or disorder and then dyslexia

and then someone said i might have a bit of autism and then on and on and on and aren't we just people with personalities? Isn't that just personality traits? And can we over-diagnose a personality and call it a condition? Does that make sense? Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, I would think that there's, I mean, I could be off, but I would think that there are probably people who aren't autistic

but have certain autistic tendencies, right? I 100% believe in autism. I'm not saying I don't believe it. No, no, but they would probably go in a number. Is there a danger sometimes that we can over-diagnose people or are these very defined things in science that we actually can quintessentially say that these are facts? You know, this is a personal opinion, so remember that

because I'm only able to do that as well with you. But diagnosing autism is really complex. It's a really, really complex thing. And, Jim, you said, oh, the only people that can diagnose autism is a doctor. And it's not just a doctor. You know, you actually have to be able to. We can only see autism by observable behaviours.

You know, our science isn't all that great. And this is neurological. We're not even cluey enough to understand how our minds work at the moment. Or it's not like we can do a scan of the brain and go, oh, yeah, there's that neurology of attention deficit, hyperactivity disorder or autism or any other neurological disorder. So all we can do is sit back and watch somebody and go, oh, they're a bit quirky. But you can't get a diagnosis of autism just because you're quirky. Quirky is great.

You know, we want people to have all of this. You know, that's what makes the world beautiful, that humans are so different and that we all come and approach things. Autism is a diagnosis given to people that have difficulty or complexity with day-to-day functioning. And I'm not talking about functioning as in putting your shoes on or getting your undies on.

I'm talking about it's got to be complexity where their social interaction with other people or the way that their obsessive characteristics or their sensory processing or their auditory processing makes it difficult for them to learn and makes it difficult for them to interact with other people. So I'm with you. No way should we be pathologising personalities. No way in hell. And no way should we be pathologising personalities. No way in hell. And no way should we be pathologising people who are a little bit eccentric.

Because what is that anyway? Can someone with severe autism, can they live by themselves? Or is it possible? Like how do they venture out in the world if they have severe autism? Do they need constant care or what happens there? Keanu, are you all right for me to keep talking because I feel like I'm... Yeah, well, you're the one with all the right answers. I would just say that, you know, before Jodie speaks,

I guess the only thing I would say is that, which we've started to touch on, but everyone is so different, you know, every person on the spectrum is different, which is why it's really hard to talk about because, you know, you can say that, you know, these traits are common with certain people, but, you know, just even seeing the show and then all the people that are out there on the spectrum that we weren't able to tell their stories, you know,

there's so many different personalities within it that it's hard to, I guess, put people in a box. But, yes, you know, when you're talking about severe autism, some people are really badly affected, aren't they, Jodie? Yeah. And probably, Jimmy, you were talking a little bit more. We don't even use the terminology. Asperger's is no longer even used diagnostically.

In Australia? Because I know in America I hear people use that term a lot. Or is that just across the board we don't use that anymore? Well, I think because what we do, we've turned it into kind of a cultural thing. You know, I might say about you, oh, geez, you're a bit Aspie or that's a bit Aspie or oh, that's a bit. But what it was originally is prior to the 90s,

people were only diagnosed with autism or what we call classic autism. And to have that, you had to have an intellectual disability. So you've got to remember, you can be on the spectrum, that's why they call it a spectrum, but you can also have any type of intellectual and cognitive capacity. So prior to the 90s, people had autism. Every single person who had a diagnosis also had an intellectual disability. An intellectual disability can be people that have profound intellectual disability or severe intellectual disability where they need 24-hour-a-day support with their personal care, with safety, with being able to navigate environments.

So then in the 90s, people all of a sudden, Asperger, who was this fella from Germany. He was a German. So he first saw this in the 1940s, but because of where he was, we didn't really think about, you know, he was from Vienna and German writing in the 1940s. Yeah, yeah. What a German thing in the 40s. He, yeah. What a German saying in the 40s.

He was busy having his house having holes in its walls. Yeah, exactly right. But he was seeing a group of people that had, they didn't have intellectual disability. So when we talk about Asperger's, we're talking about all the same traits, all the same diagnostic criteria as autism. Everything's the same on the spectrum,

but these people do not have an intellectual disability. So there is a difference. So I was wrong. Well, I was wrong. I said I didn't know. Forrest? Yeah. There's a difference.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Also, when you say Aspie in an Australian accent, that does sound like a pub up the end of your road. Wouldn't that be good, the Aspie? Yeah, we should all go meet at the fucking Aspie. I hear they've got a comedy night on a Tuesday down at the Aspie. If it was at the Aspie, you'd have to be routinely and regularly there at exactly the same time every Tuesday night.

I asked him when the first person was diagnosed. He said in the 80s and he didn't know who. Well, I'm going to say in a big way where it was common knowledge. Like if they're saying from the 40s it was discovered. First person. I'm going to say in the 80s, yeah. You're going to stick with it even though, yeah. Yeah.

Do we know who that was, the first person that was diagnosed? I think his name was, well, the guy's name was Leo Kenner. He was the first person, and that was in the that i think his name was it well the guy's name was leo canna he was the first person and that was in the 40s 1943 canna was the person that um he was a psychologist and he was the first he he called this autism and i think the first person was a young kid his name was donald yeah he was the first person he's the president that explains what's happening in america he's super focused yeah uh yeah not in the 1940s yeah you know that's gonna be about 12 then donald gray triplet is what we have here he was born in 1933 and they changed it to trump

and they moved over to amer. Okay, and so... Is it Donald J? No, it's Donald Gray. Then they changed the gray to J. You're about to go QAnon. And the triplet to Trump. Donald J, gray triplet? That's fucking close, man.

I think you're actually on to something. That's very close. QAnon, reach out to me. Got something for you. Don't be associating that man with uh I know right yeah the most hate mail you've ever gotten I don't know if there's an autistic person on earth who's paid for more abortions um when uh so can I just jump back quickly to the um the Asperger's and the terminology that a lot of people are using it. And I think Jodie probably knows about when they stopped using it

as an official diagnostic term and they started calling it autism spectrum disorder and they call them autism level one, two, and three, I think. And is it level one that is the people who would have been diagnosed as Asperger's, Jodie? Yes. And I think so. The thing is, you know, because it's that term that represents people

who are in that, I know you're not supposed to use the term higher functioning, but the people whose lives, I guess, are less affected by. Why can't we use high functioning? I'm sorry. I thought that was me being polite when I said they're a high functioning person. Because if you use high functioning.

A lot of people have called me a high functioning alcoholic. Anyway, Karen. functioning person because if you use a lot of people have called me a high functioning alcoholic anyway i think it's because you know if you use the term high functioning then you're then you're saying that other people are low functioning and i think it's just a term that it doesn't sit well right oh okay now that makes sense you know but i think i think a lot of people who are who were diagnosed as aspergers when they were younger or even people who weren't, but they just like to identify as that term because it kind of separates it from autism. And some people just like to, you know, be identified as that. Although I believe that Forrest is about to read out that I was correct about marijuana. So isn't that high functioning? No, I'm not.

Hey, I'm not. Just crashing my computer here correct about marijuana. So isn't that high-functioning? No, I'm not. Hey-o! Just crashing my computer here with your big one. God, I've got to pay $250 for the thing, and now I've got to buy Forrester computer. I shouldn't have come to work. No, we're okay. I wasn't about the asset. We haven't gotten there yet.

But Asperger's, or you were saying Asperger's. I don't know if I was mispronouncing it, but we're going to skip through that because we've already answered all those questions the thing is that guy shouldn't have called it after him he shouldn't have named the condition after his name because although in germany we all know what that those two words can be made into oh yeah you know what i mean yeah like if there was if there was a guy who discovered a condition his name was dick hot Dog, right? Dick Hot Dog, right?

We'd go, don't name it after you, Dick Hot Dog. Like, probably you should leave it alone. Like, I think it was very selfish of Mr. Ass. Mr. Ass. Men versus women. Is it diagnosed more in men than women? Is that correct? Absolutely.

Absolutely, yes. I hear there's a lot of women who have it, but they say they don't have it, and you don't know what you're talking about. I'm freaked out on that joke. I know. You had like a stroke in the middle of it. Something happened with your face.

I was like, my period's not coming. It has nothing to do with that. He saw the cancellation coming. So currently you said it is. It is. Okay. I think, again, this is probably a Jodie answer again, but I'll give my kind of half-assed answer,

which is that traditionally there were a lot more boys diagnosed than girls i think it was something like three to one but that number's starting to kind of the gap starting to close as we learn more about uh the presentation of autism in in females so um you know like jody was talking about you know the 80s and and even just recently we we we've only really learned about autism so recently you know i mean we talk to people on these series who are 25 and we talk to their parents and the parents say when they were diagnosed when they were young i mean nobody knew anything you know they were being told things like oh your child will be institutionalized for their lives you know so it's it's pretty recent that we know any that we really know about

your condition itself when you said it presents itself differently what are the different ways that a woman presents herself and a man presents herself with with himself with autism what is the different symptoms yeah i mean this is i'll definitely leave this to jody but my understanding is um that women are actually better at masking and better at mimicking other people's behaviours and kind of... Or being devious. Exactly. A lot of girls will, as they're growing up,

watch other people's behaviours in school and kind of mimic to try and fit in to to the population to the social groups and and a lot of the girls that we've spoken to say and talk about just how exhausting that is you know and it's kind of a thing of when when they get home from school or when they get home from a social event they're just absolutely exhausted from kind of having to put on this mask but Jodie hand over to you because you'll have a much better answer than me yeah well that's that's exactly correct they're basically now women are being I mean we are we learn more about autism every day because we start we listen to people

who are autistic and they tell us what autism is like for them and um diagnostic the diagnosis is changing all the time. And as I was saying, I've worked with people for over 30 years and I've seen it change three to four times as we learn more about autism. But one of the things that a lot of women are talking about is that in the social interaction and social communication area that women, and remember I'm speaking very generalist here, we're talking about hundreds of thousands of people,

so this isn't the same for everybody. And there's big cultural differences as well. So if I'm working with somebody who, and I have, have grown up in Indonesia or Japan or China or they're Indigenous Australian Australian we've got cultural difference in the way we socially communicate anyway so that's one thing we've got to remember a lot of diagnosis is through medical uh you know but having access to the medical profession and we remember that lots of people don't have a great access to that but women do talk about the fact that what's the best way you know what are you this is how the best way

i explain to people you know if you were going out to a big party maybe not you jim because you just seem to be able to you know banter about whatever but a lot of us when we go out i've been kicked out of a lot of big parties well a lot of us when we go out to, say, a really massive big social function, and there's heaps of people there, but we don't know anyone. So before you go, you're kind of already practicing in your head conversations that you might be able to have. I do this every time I go to a party. Every time I go to a party, when I'm having conversations,

I'm not listening to you talk all my brain's doing is make sure you look like you're listening to him talk and then my brain does this my brain does this it goes ask them a question how's how's your life i sit there and i listen to their boring fucking answer i nod along with a smile i'm the fucking worst and i become obsessed when i when i when i go to a party, I get so obsessed with. And then I asked my wife, did I talk too much? Did I ask enough questions? And she goes, you didn't really ask enough questions.

But you made everyone laugh and everyone was happy. Because I get very awkward. This is something that just popped into my head. I feel like we're diagnosing Jim in this episode. I've talked to doctors about it. We're pretty sure already. So have you noticed, not an influx, have you noticed a change in the condition with social media?

Because social media is such an obsessive thing where you keep on checking your phone, you're looking at likes and you feel acceptance and then you feel you didn't get enough and then you obsess about it. Has social media played a part in the people with autism in a negative or positive way? Let you know.

Question. I was waiting for Kian to say something. That was me going, I'll just wait. This is what I found out with having two guests. They just look at each other. It's a massive, you know, it's different for everybody, Jim. Jim wants answers. The answer can be there's no difference,

but I feel like someone with autism could get very obsessive with social media and it could be detrimental. But it's detrimental to all of us, in my opinion. But I feel like that could be a thing. But I might be wrong. Could be a wonderful thing. I asked Jim how many children are – one in how many children have an autism spectrum disorder.

He said 20. One in 20? Do you guys – this is from CDC. I think it this fucking higher it's higher than it yeah i think the latest that i have read was one in 59 yeah i have based on 2016 data from the cdc um it was one in 54 so very close and in this but i thought like one one in like 100 people have severe autism. They say one in 100 have severe, and then, you know, I don't know. The breakdown that I looked at earlier was saying basically like 31% or something like that had more severe autism,

and then 41% had like very special skills or were seen as extra smart um and then there were you know the rest were in the middle somewhere so i don't know if that's is that a myth the extra smart thing is that a myth yeah it's called savant skill so it's actually a different so if somebody's that's where lots of people when we watch things Rain Man, Rain Man was a blessing and a curse because it was one of those first movies where people went, oh, there's autism. But, you know, that guy had, he was institutionalised, he needed care all the time, but he had what we call savant skills and so then everybody went, oh, my God, everyone with autism is a savant.

Did they stop using the term idiot savant? They used to say idiot savant. Well, yeah, but exactly. But see, we're getting smarter these days, aren't we? So we don't call people idiots anymore. It was moron savant. I like how you had to ask that. Have we stopped calling people idiots?

I even thought in the 80s when I saw that movie to call someone an idiot savant. Did they say that in the movie? That was the term we used. It was idiot savant. It was someone who was intellectually in our minds not quite there who could do special skills. We called it an idiot savant. Yeah, it is true because I guess that was the first kind of mainstream presentation of autism. But it was after that. Everyone's like, they can count cards

and they can count cards and you know they can they remember it and yeah and it's it's just not true right so it's and a lot of a lot of people that we've worked with have have commented on that and said that you know it hasn't done them any favors that you know that kind of gave society an example of what people would think autism meant and even even things like, you know, The Good Doctor, people would say similar things. And that's one of the reasons why we wanted to make the show, was to kind of show the breadth of experiences and personalities that people with autism have in a documentary reality style setting,

you know, actually meeting real people, because the representations in drama have been fairly, I guess, what's the word? Restricted. They're often represented by having, like the good doctor and Rain Man and stuff like that, of having a lack of empathy. And I don't think that's the right term. Well, we don't see it even in Love on the Spectrum.

I think it's more a lack of awareness more than empathy. I don't think that they don't feel for others. Am I wrong or right? No. It's often the thing. Like the doctor has no empathy and he's just like, this is what we've got to do. This is what we've got to do.

And Rain Man only had empathy when he thought for himself or when he got upset about his childhood or something like that. I think that's the argument why representation is so important because when you have these just singular instances of somebody representing an entire community of people, then people who watch that go, this is how that group of people is. And that's why Love on the Spectrum was so brilliant. Because you guys showed us a really vast, for lack of a better word, spectrum of people on that show, too. for lack of a better word, spectrum of people on that show too.

So now we were able to see what 10 different people's experiences, as opposed to this Hollywood movie that was written and we're supposed to feel a certain way about this group. Yeah. Yeah. That was kind of what we were hoping. Yeah. I mean, you know, and we can always do better next time. And you know, that there's always more opportunity because it is so incredibly diverse. I mean, it's pretty, it's pretty amazing how diverse it actually is and and the thing about i guess going back to the savant skills that jody was talking about that that's actually a quite a different thing to the special interests or obsessions isn't it jody so yeah um and and savant skills uh within a very small group of people

on the spectrum i mean i've worked with a couple of people who had that, a skill like that. And I mean, it was amazing. It really was incredible. There was a girl called Christina that we filmed with, and she was really interested in petrol stations and geography. So I guess when you talk about an obsession, not being too helpful, I guess, if you have an obsession with petrol stations, that doesn't necessarily help you in your life or career but um she her her knowledge of of like minimum temperatures maximum temperatures around the world was just unbelievable I mean you could just tell her a city somewhere and she would know the highest temperature that that city ever hit and the lowest temperature that city ever hit straight off straight off her just came straight out i mean it's incredible amazing to see but it is quite a rare thing isn't it jody and i think that what are the different um i have a savant skill i can go to anyone's house i can

go to anyone's house and i know where the bathroom is without even being there other people are asking for directions where's the bathroom i just know where to go. Sometimes he just makes a closet a bathroom. I just know where to go. I also can walk into any kitchen and find you where the pots are. Straight away, I gauged they would have put the pots there. So all your skills involve going in other people's houses and knowing what stuff is. Knowing what stuff is.

I know where the safe is and the combination. No, I'm not silly. Didn't you do a thing about shitting yourself, Jim? I did. A whole special. I wouldn't call that an idiot savant thing. I'd just call that an idiot idiot thing. Maybe that's why you need to know where the bathroom is. I have a quick question because there's been a conversation,

at least that I've heard lately, surrounding how you phrase it, whether it's autistic people or people with autism. Is there any consensus on that? Because I know that people say people with autism as a way to be delicate about speaking about somebody with a disability, but then I've heard so many things that they like to be, you people centered as opposed to their disability is there consensus on that again it's one of those things that every person has their own opinion and has their own way of wanting to be you know wanting to be referred to so you know it is hard and it's it's hard it's hard for us um when you're making a series like this um jody will have experienced it as well with all the people she works with I think the best way is to just ask people how they prefer to be referred but you

know I do it I do it the same ways in in my lifetime it originally was everybody just we just said autistic people originally because you know from the 80s we just went autistic people and then there was this really big push within rights of people to say you know it's got to be person first language we've got to say person with a disability person with autism you can't call people autistic people and now it's swung back around again and a lot of research is being done saying that um autistic people want to be called autistic people you know it's an identity first so you know like saying a gay man or a you know but i do it the same as i work i mean i'm a sexologist so i every single person that i work with i i will say to them what pronouns do you prefer to use you know what

are your use pronouns so if somebody is and if somebody's on the spectrum i'll say to them what do you what do you want to use do you call yourself an autistic person do you call yourself on the spectrum what do you use and whatever they use i use because it's not my identity right it's their identity and so but you know as you guys are talking about language changes so dramatically and so quickly in my lifetime just in this one area. I can't keep up. Oh, I'm in trouble from jokes from 10 years ago that were acceptable words

and people go, why did you say that? I go, it was 10 years ago. That's what we all were saying. Yeah. You fat pussy. Those will change too. Things change. Life changes.

And even when we're writing the very minimal narration that we have for the series, it's really tricky because we were trying to do what was the most, I guess, the safest way to do it and what people had generally said and autism organisations had said at the time is that the best way to refer to people was people with autism or people on the spectrum. But then had some people saying call us autistic we don't want to be called this so you know it's a hard one and hey jody are you are you have you got your headphones in and you're waving around like the plug for your headphones are they even plugged in geez someone's getting a bit

obsessive i noticed i noticed that too k. I just noticed that too, actually. That's the attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. I've got to have something to... It's a lovely show, Love on the Spectrum. Lovely show, lovely title. But you don't have to do season two because not everyone's looking for love. Not everyone needs to find love. Can't you just have fucking on the spectrum,

banging on the spectrum, one-night stands on the spectrum? Why does everyone have to fall in fucking love? They're only about their third date. Let them fuck around a bit. Like hit it and quit it on the spectrum. He got married two weeks ago and he's already like, can we change the fucking love? And I held out until I was 43.

Very proud of that. That didn't answer my question. Oh, that was a real question? Can season two be called Banging on the Spectrum and there's no love involved? Sure. All right. Good, good. He knows how to play along.

I'm glad we got that out of the way. Move along. And then one for the teens, fingering on the spectrum. Okay, I'll stop everyone. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Jim asked, I asked, can cannabis help? Because we're asking about

treatment through therapy and so forth. He said always. I don't even know where that question's in here. Is that a thing? Is that a thing? I find,

from what I can tell with disabled people, cannabis always works with disabled people, people with mental or physical disabilities because it calms everyone down. Oh, I don't know. I think it would definitely help with autism

because it calms you down a bit. But like you're in Australia, the fucking backwaters where you don't have legalized cannabis. Oh, I'm living here in the future in California. I'm getting high on the regular. Jodie can answer that. She's up near the cannabis capital of Australia. She lives up near Coffs Harbour.

You buy it off the Hemsworth brothers, or as I call them, the Hemsworth brothers. Oh. Hey-o. Weird. I mean, I can only go on evidence-based research, so I can't give you a whole different one. So you must have a lot of stuff for us

you must have written a lot of papers on that just a bunch of doodles in a notebook you order more pizza um and then the last question asked jim was misconceptions about autism um he said good at numbers we talked about that that. I was right about that. That's a misconception. The anti-vaxxer part of autism is what misconceptions about autism should everybody know about so that they don't carry those with them

in interacting with people with autism. Either one. Yeah, either one. It is hard when there's two of us. I just think that even in this conversation that we've had, which has been an hour, it doesn't even touch the sides of the diversity of somebody with autism.

You know, autistic people are not just autistic people. Autistic people, I keep saying this all the time, autistic people aren't just autistic. They're also every gender, every sexual orientation. They're good people. They're assholes. They're funny people. Exactly.

They're there for every personality, every political persuasion. You can't just say, oh, if you want to, it's like we can't put everybody in a box and say, there you go, that's autism autism we've tried it on the mexican border it hasn't worked that is one of the things that i love about the show too was when each person is introduced um whether it's like one of the main participants or one of the persons on a date with is their likes and dislikes like me and my girlfriend were watching this show together and so we ended up doing that at the end we're like all right you go first what are your likes and dislikes and i thought that was just such a great little bit in the show uh to do that where you're just like a great way to introduce people um turns out her likes a tall thin asian man yeah no she is asian

so i mean could be she could just be humoring me but yeah um we actually stole that from the french film amelie i shouldn't admit to that but uh what are you doing yeah which film amelie you know the french film yeah yeah oh yeah yeah i that you know what now that you say it it does yeah maybe that's why i was like so drawn to it because i really love that movie amelie, you know, the French film. Yeah, yeah. That was made in the 90s. Oh, yeah, yeah. You know what? Now that you say it, it does. Yeah. Maybe that's why I was, like, so drawn to it, too, because I really love that movie, Amelie. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

That's good. It really knows why to introduce people to the film. I know all of the film. That's good. Yeah. Yeah. That's nice. Yeah.

Anyways. I'm going to keep saying yeah. Yep. Uh-huh. Yeah, you are correct. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. All right. And just before we get going um okay so we ask each of our guests to give us a dinner party fact right um and this is like a fact about our subject that uh is interesting or obscure that our audience can use to impress people like at a dinner party or a bar or something like that um it's usually on the topic of what we've been talking about but kian i like that you just gave us a fact oh it was great but you guys still like it so if you could share that with me like i

read yours i was like well this has nothing to do with autism but sure who you can uh it's australian so yeah oh sorry i didn't realize it was meant to be a related to the subject i still like yours a lot so i think you should throw it out there. I want to hear it. You probably already know this, Jim, that kangaroos and emus can't walk backwards. No, I did know that. Yeah, yeah. And that's why they're on the coat of arms of Australia because as a country, apparently, we're moving forwards.

Yeah, into each other. They're fagging facing each other. What happens when they bash heads? They just stay there for eternity? They just talk. They can't go backwards. Fuck me. Me life ended when I walked into another kangaroo.

That's funny. I went to kiss a kangaroo and I never moved again. And that's how you get set in your ways. So I still like that. And Jodie, you had one relating to the show that I thought was great. Yeah, I don't know whether you remember, but on the show, when I'm working with Michael and I said to Michael, do you believe in love at first sight?

And he said, no, because, you know, lust, that's a symptom of lust and lust is the opposite to love. And he was actually correct. If you actually look at the science behind it, that when people, what we call lust, the brain actually releases specific hormones when we're attracted to somebody and we're in those first phases of relationships

where we're all giddy and a little bit crazy and can't think about anything else, the brain releases something, you know, a different hormone. So start with what releases lust is like the sex hormones. It's like the sexual arousal of testosterone, estrogen, that's the one that kind of gets us fired up. They're the one-night stand ones. Can you love someone that you lust after?

Yeah, you can have different things released at different times. Oh, that's good. We'll get there for you, Jim, because after being married for a couple of weeks, we'll let you know when you're sitting with these people. When you're really attracted to somebody, it releases dopamine, which is like our reward, you know, when you're feeling really good and you're rewarded by something so that's dopamine and love is what they call is when we have oxytocin that

they call it the the cuddle hormone it's the one and it's we don't see it just in intimate romantic love we see it with all types of attachment from child to parent to you know person to their labrador it's the one where we go this this is comfort this is safe so but what mike was talking about on the show he wants to go straight to the old uh he's talking about love is that one i i want love but he was going that lust is opposite and it actually loves overrated loves overrated you know what when i was reading when i was reading this and it says it it releases oxytocin i read that as oxycontin and i go huh it's interesting oxycontin is the color hormone i was just tell those people in west virginia they're uh they're really cuddly there well that's that's the podcast yeah yeah i if anyone hasn't watched uh love on the

spectrum it's on netflix go watch it five episodes you can binge it or you can take your time and watch it it's really great or you can excessively watch it for weeks over and over again um and uh i don't know if there's anything the two of you want to say before we leave thank you for being on the show but please if anything you want to talk about any upcoming projects or anything going on or. Oh, I just, I just say, thanks for having us. And, um, you know, stay tuned for further series that may be coming along. I think it's coming along. You're acting all coy. Oh, Netflix had a big success.

It didn't cost them much money. Who knows what might happen. Yeah. Oh, we'll watch season two, mate. Don't worry about it. He's already sent the email about fucking on the spectrum. He's already done it down. Fuck it on the spectrum. You've got to do several spinoffs. It was like season 10 dancing on the spectrum.

And Jodie, any parting words? No, it's great to have laughed this much at this time in the morning for me so thanks yes again yeah it reminds me i better call me dead um can i just can i just say something just going back only because i'm just thinking you know what when i was talking about um girls being better aticking, I probably didn't put that quite right. Is it okay if I just give a slightly different answer? You want to go, girls are better at mimicking. It didn't sound right. I guess I just wanted to say that, you know,

because autism was diagnosed traditionally more in guys than it was in girls, but as we learn more about the presentation in girls we're starting to diagnose girls a lot more um and that it is said and people have said to me girls who are on the spectrum have said that for them uh it's about masking and it's about mimicking and that's possibly one of the reasons why um some of those diagnoses have been missed. All right. We cleared that up. And I just want to say something about oxytocin,

which is quite interesting, just an interesting fact for you guys. Take it in Kentucky. Not oxyconcine. Oxytocin, not oxyconcine. Oxytocin. Yeah, you're good. So there was a lady who was on The Apprentice in one of you know mr president's uh episodes back in the day and i think she did really well on the series i can't remember what her name was albarosa albarosa i don't know i'm not sure but she was a real hard ass and she she did really

well on the show and she did really well as that you know corporate kind of you know this this is this is how you do it thing and they they measured her levels of oxytocin and they were really low. And there's kind of theories that levels of oxytocin in people can also affect how they feel about other people and empathy. Speaking of empathy, you know, that myth about people with autism that they don't have empathy, it is absolutely a myth. Sometimes maybe they're not as good as expressing it but absolutely people have serious empathy but um interestingly there's been scientific research into oxytocin and higher levels of it can mean you

have higher levels of empathy and this woman who did really well in that corporate kind of environment on the apprentice had really low levels of it so you know maybe a few people could do with a bit of an injection of oxytocin and things might change but we want to we want to send our love out to melania she has uh covet at the moment um and i'll i'll talk to you guys uh off off the podcast and we'll figure out what what's a good charity and we'll put that on our Instagram, IDKAT podcast on Instagram. And, yeah. All right, ladies and gentlemen, if you're at a party,

someone's bothering you, try to ask them a few questions. And then say, I don't know about that and walk away. Good night, Australia. Good night, Australia. Hey, everybody. Jason Ellis here from the Jason Ellis Show podcast, reminding you that my podcast, new episodes every Wednesday, downloadable where all podcasts are available.

Come see my friends, Michael and Kevin, as we talk to you about what's awesome, what sucks, fitness, fighting, parenting, life, spin kicks, LGBTQ community, how to defend yourself against a shark if it attacks you out of nowhere, and much, much more. So come join us.