I Don't Know About That - Christopher Columbus

Episode Date: August 29, 2023

Dr. Patrick Wyman Phd (@wyman_patrick) sets us straight on when Columbus set sail for the new world and then did a bunch of heinous things. Jim's new special "High & Dry" is now available on Netflix! ADS: SHIPSTATION: Go to ShipStation.com and use code JIM today and sign up for your FREE 60-day trial. LIQUID IV: Grab your Liquid I.V. Hydration Multiplier Sugar-Free in bulk nationwide at Costco or get 20% off when you go to LIQUIDIV.COM and use code IDKAT at checkout.

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You might find out on this podcast. I've started too early, so I'll give it a bit of time. I don't know about that. Dog names. I just want to put it out there that to anyone who's listening

and I mentioned on the Mick Malloy show the other day that I really want to be a voice on Bluey

more than anything on earth but it turns out that like every celebrity wants to be a voice on

Bluey so I've got like Lin Manuel Miranda or whatever is on Bluey he is

yeah he's on Bluey but you're Australian Eva Mendes is on Bluey. He is? Yeah, he's on Bluey. But you're Australian. Eva Mendes is on Bluey. Eva Mendes? Yeah. I like Eva Mendes. She's married.

I think I should be on Bluey. You should be like an uncle or something who comes in. Just one of the dads of one of the other dogs comes in. Oh, kids. Like, Mick Malloy is on Bluey. He plays Sparky. Yeah. The electrician dog. Everyone's got Bluey. He plays Sparky. Yeah.

The electrician dog. Everyone's got like. I've never watched it. This is the conversation you and Jack always have. Whenever you bring up Bluey, you're always like, yeah. Biggest show in the world. No, no, I know. You just told me that's good for adults.

You should have just watched it. Yeah, but there's a lot of things I haven't watched. These episodes are like 15 minutes. Eight minutes. Eight minutes. I don't have kids. Neither do I. Yeah, but I don't have kids. Neither do I. Yeah, but I don't feel like I have the mind of a kid. You're very close to a child.

I'm 28. It's a beautiful show. But anyway, I'm just putting it out there for the bluey. Go check my work on the movie Extinct if you don't believe I can. Or just listen now. Shut your eyes and imagine this is a dog. I've got a bit of a croaky. This is my best work.

I'll do it better. Hello, I'm a dog. That's good. This is my best work. I'll do it better. Hello, I'm a dog. There you go. Yeah, I could do that. Oh no, then I didn't do Australian. Hello, hello, I'm a dog. That was like his Brad Pitt dog. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What if we were like an outback dog? No, I'd just be

a dog in the street. But you've got to have like a dog name. So the parents are called Ben and Chili. You know, you've got to have like a dog name. So the parents are called Ben and Chili. You know, you've got to have a dog named Sparky. Like we all call electricians Sparky.

Do you call them that in America? No. What's a Chippy? I don't know what that is. What's a Chippy in Australia? What's a Chippy? I don't know.

What is a Chippy? Someone who makes potato chips? A Chippy is a carpenter. Oh my God. Because they work with chips of wood. Okay, so why don't you be chippy?

There already is a character called chippy. There's Sparky and Chippy hang out together because they do construction in the town. Well, Bricky, what if you make breakfast sandwiches? I could be a Bricky. That's a bricklayer. Okay. But Bricky's not a dog's name.

I like that Jack's job list. You make breakfast sandwiches. But anything could be a dog's name. Anything could be a dog's name. You could name a dog Br name. I like that Jack's job list. You make breakfast sandwiches. But anything could be a dog's name. Anything could be a dog's name. You could name a dog Bricky. Bricky? Yeah, but it's got to be a stereotypical dog's name. Sparky's a stereotypical. Chippy

not so much. What about Fluffy and you sold Fluff? I could be Fluffy the dog and I could sell Funkos. What about Spot? Because there's always like a spot of blood in your piss. Yeah, but it's still a relatively kid show. Oh, okay.

Spot's not a bad name. They wouldn't have to describe why. Wait, is there blood in Jem's piss or just in the dog's piss? In my poo there's blood, not my piss. I saw Barbie. All right, Barbie. Barbie's a good blood. That's my bad. I saw Barbie. All right, Barbie. Barbie's a good movie. That was funny.

Barbie's a good movie. That Margot Robbie, she does fine work. And that Ryan Gosling, he was the best thing in it. He's so funny in it. Oh, my God. Married to Eva Mendes. Rightfully so. With a body like that and being a bit funny

he deserves everything he gets he must be on the roids though but this is my prediction so quote it now quote it now quote it later I believe that Ryan Gosling will be nominated for an Oscar

for the movie Barbie and I think if he's in the best supporting actor category, but he's the lead man, but I don't know. I think he'd probably be a supporter. He might be. If it's best supporting, he's getting nominated all day. Also, I'm Just Ken will be nominated for best song.

Neither of the two categories will win. Although Barbie will win for wardrobe. Okay. These are good guesses. All right. Quote them now and quote them later. There's me Oscar predictions for Barbie. The thing is like

because you don't think the movie Barbie would get any Oscar nominations but I'm predicting an Oscar win and three nominations. Okay. It was a great movie. It's a comedy though, right? It is a comedy

so it makes it even tricky but you can win best supporting actor or actress in a comedy very rarely very rarely yeah uh what's the name marissa tommy my cousin that was that was like that was a huge outlier because she wasn't even nominated for a golden globe that year yeah yeah yeah and then she she beat like meryl streep i mean she was great my cousin Vinny is one of my top movies and she was great in it, and I'm happy for her. But yeah.

You're happy for her? I like Marissa Tomei. I like her. You two have made up, have you? No. You don't know if I have a relationship with her. I do. I do.

You don't? I do and you don't. Do you want me to call her right now? Yes, I would love you to call her. I'm going to call Marissa Tomei right now. Call Marissa Tomei right now. Okay. Right now he's texting some female saying say you marissa thomas just call me here we go i want to see how this plays out i want to see where your brain goes okay here we go and thank you for calling just for calling today you're entitled okay she changed her number yeah I like that he didn't even

he didn't scroll his contacts he actually typed it in his phone I know he knows it by heart because when she gave it to me she said don't put it on your phone

remember this no no no she said it was 9-11 never forget there's a little thing that you all didn't pick up on that that was an Australian

phone number that was an Australian voice. Marissa, you were ringing someone in Australia, you know, to do the voice because you have a girl there. No, no, no. I typed 888-888-8888. I didn't know what I was calling. I was like, I don't know.

I was hoping it would go to... But the voice... And I feel like she changed her number. The voice over here was like, this is an Australian number. I know, but I don't know. Dial it again. I'm telling you right now, look. Call her back. The voice over here was like, this is an Australian. I know, but I don't know. Dial it again. Dial it again. I'm telling you right now, look.

Call her back. Maybe she'll pick up. 888-888-8888. All right? That's the same number. All right, same number. Okay, we're ready. We're ready.

Turn up the volume more. Thanks for calling. Please listen carefully. That's a different. Your first one was an Australian voice. Look, you can look at the thing. It says two calls. I don't know what to tell you.

Two calls there, 888. Look, two calls, outgoing. Quote me now or quote me later. It's right there. It's like a harem of women answering the phones at this point. I don't think you really called 88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888 And thank you for calling There you go Leave it on You're entitled to a retail rebate of $100 Why is it an Australian voice?

There you go What's the number? We just got $100 What's the fucking number? Is that an Australian voice? I don't think so You're entitled to a rebate of $100 I heard British

I heard British in one of them I think it's Australian I'm not hearing either. Call her back. I'm not really hearing that. She changed her number guys.

That's the important thing here. No that was Marissa. She tried to tell you about a remake. She hasn't acted for a while. She was in Spider-Man.

You know one of my favorites. Was she in Spider-Man? Hey I also. Yeah I'm just joking. I'm not getting into She died though. No she didn't.

That's Shanae O'Connor. No she died in the movie. Oh I thought it was real life. Sorry. Don't do that to me. No, she died in the movie. Oh, I thought it was real life. Sorry. Don't do that to me. You saw she was in my vision board.

What was the... Oh, I've been watching the Actors Strike, and I support the Actors Strike. I don't know if it's still going on by the time we get to this thing. But some actors I'm watching on the picket line, I'm like this, don't make me check your IMDb

because you've been on Strike for about five years. That's going to be most of the guild. Yeah, yeah, you look like this. Don't make me check your IMDB because you've been on strike for about five years. That's going to be most of the guild. Yeah, yeah. You look like this. Now don't. We deserve more right. You haven't had a job in years. Shut up.

I feel like 80,000 members or something crazy like that. I had to change my name. I had to put an extra E in the Jeffries because there was already a Jim Jeffries. I haven't seen that kind of act. Well, he has a plaque. He has a plaque in Burbank on the ground. Yeah. Jim Jefferies.

What was he up to? What did he do? I don't think he was like an old actor or something. No, there's an old boxer. There's no old actors. I mean, he's not even the first result when you Google him. Oh, yeah. Well, he's dwarfed him.

He's dwarfed him. Look up Jim Jefferies Burbank. We'll see what comes up. Most famous Jim. And there won't be that extra. That'll be me gigging in flappers. That's true. We should see what comes up. Most famous Jim. And there won't be that extra. That'll be me gigging in flappers. That's true. We should plug that right now.

August 29th. Hey, everybody. You want to see the real Jim Jeffries? August 29th, I think it's this week. One of the great heavyweight boxers of his era. Perhaps the best of all time. Gentleman Jim Jeffries. I think it's today.

Come on, flappers. Come today, flappers. Flappers. And then I Flappers. Flappers. And then I'm on the road. Where am I on the road, Forrest? You just come back from Connecticut and Rhode Island. Those were great gigs. And you're about to do a whole bunch of gigs in Canada.

All over the place. And then you're in Texas and Oklahoma. And I forget where else. DonJimJeffries.com. So go there. That guy was the heavyweight, but he also was an actor. And he's in all these old movies. And he raised bulls.

Man, to be alive in the 20s to 40s. Burbank sounded sick as hell. That just proves that we all get forgotten. Don't worry about your legacy in this world. It's over within a decade of your death. Don't worry about it. let me know if you've heard of any of these movies yeah mr celebrity well no this is my point this guy was the heavyweight champion of the world he had he was a movie star he raised bulls that's that's nothing to be sneezed

at and i dwarf him in celebrity right now because i'm here on the planet right now get the fuck out of here he is best known to history for coming out of retirement to take on Jack Johnson not the singer the first African American heavyweight champion in history I would come out of retirement to fight Jack Johnson I think I could do that

wasn't Jim Jefferies a little racist there's a soundbite he called himself racist Wasn't Jim Jefferies a little racist? There's a soundbite. He called himself racist. He was a little bit like, didn't he do it for... Isn't there like... Isn't something... Who was the German bloke who got beaten up by Joe Frazier or something? Drogo.

No, the bloody... He was Russian. Not Joe Frazier. Drago. No, the bloody... Who's Russian? I don't know. It was a big boxing thing that was like the supremacy thing over black people and that type of stuff. And then it was like,

not Joe Frazier. Who was that heavyweight champion that was like the famous one back in the... I don't know. Oh, Max Schnelling. Max Schnelling. Schnelling or Schnelling.

Max Schnelling. Yeah. And he fought Joe Lewis. Oh, see, I just pulled that out of my ass. I had to move Marissa Tomei's phone number out of my brain, and then I pulled Max Snelling. Yeah, you've erased Marissa Tomei from your life. I don't know what it is now.

If she wants to block you, then you don't need her. That's good to know. Jeff is retired back to his alfalfa farm in Burbank, California. That was the days when alfalfa farms, there was alfalfa farms in Burbank. That whole downtown Burbank was all farmland for a long time. I actually, okay, so I can think we can say this now. It's not a big thing, but we once met Sean Penn. What the heck?

We did. We all did. But it's a long story that I'm not willing to tell. But one thing that came from it was he was there and he goes, actually, I grew up in Burbank. And I said, back then it was just orange fields as far as the eye can see. That's what I said to him. And he was like this.

Yeah, it was. I don't think you're allowed to say we met. It came no show. Arnie really took a liking to him. I know, but I don't post things like that. I never put up pictures and stuff like that. I think it's cool to be discreet and just tell the stories at every party you go to. I'm a terrible name dropper, but I'm very good on social media.

If you're a celebrity and you want to meet me, I will tell the story to others, but I won't put it on social media. That's the Jim Jefferies promise. Guaranteed. All right. I think our guest is here. Oh. I think so.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. All right, cool. Probably want to get to that. So go to jimjefferies.com for shows, IDCat Podcast on Instagram. Go to my website, 24shaw.net. I got some shows in San Diego in October.

Come down there. All right, I'll mention it again. All right. Let's get to our guest. And in other things, I'm making fried chicken from scratch today. Let's get to our guest. I bought a deep fry. Guest. I've cut by now. I've bought a deep fry.

Or even I've cut by now. It's funny. Oh yeah, I'll leave that in. I'm making a Cane's knockoff. I've cut by now. It's funny. Oh yeah, I'll leave that in. I'm making a Cane's knockoff. I've looked online. There's these TikTokers that make the best Cane's knockoff that everyone says is the closest to Cane's.

Are you going to make the sauce too? Hank doesn't eat the sauce. I don't give a fuck about it. I don't think the sauce is that spectacular. Isn't the sauce just like mayonnaise? I like a mayo-based sauce though. Yeah, but I'm going to use

spicy truff mayonnaise. Oh, nice. I prefer that to the cane. That'll be good. You're making elevated canes. Well, I'm deep fried. But now he's like, the word has gotten out that I'm making fried chicken. Hey, Patrick.

How you doing? Hi, how are you? G'day, mate. I'm doing fantastic. Thanks for having me. Do I know Patrick? I feel like I know him. Do you knoway, mate. I'm doing fantastic. Thanks for having me. Do I know Patrick? I feel like I know him. Do you know Patrick Wyman?

I don't know. He has a familiar face. I feel like I've met Patrick. Have I met Patrick? I don't know if you have. I don't think you've ever met me. No, huh? No.

Kelly and I haven't. We talked to him yesterday, but maybe you have. I don't know. Are we ready, Aaron? Yeah. Okay, Patrick, so I'm going to introduce you by name, and then Jim's going to then Jim's gonna guess what you're talking about we'll go from there so

sounds good all right please welcome our guest Patrick Wyman hello Patrick now it's time to play no. Yes, no. Yes, no. No. Judging a book by its cover. Just so you know, Jim, our guest has a doctorate. He's a doctor. I don't have to guess. You don't have to call him doctor, though. He said it's okay if you don't. Patrick's my cousin. I already know Patrick very well.

We're related to each other, and Patrick's specialty is the eye of the penis. Wow. That's a no. I missed out on that course of study unfortunately. So your specialty isn't the eye of the penis? No. It is not. No.

Is it the shaft of the penis? There is nothing directly penis related. Some people might think that this... It's not that stray hair that grows halfway up for no apparent reason. Some people might say this person is a dickhead. Oh, we're doing a person.

So you're a doctor. We're doing a special... He's not a medical doctor. He said we didn't have to refer to him as a doctor. Let the man guess. Is your specialty involved politics? Not in the... No.

Not in the present. Oh, okay. So is your famous person dead? Yes. Okay. That narrows it down. That narrows it down. I don't know if you would have learned about this person as a child.

But we did. I might have learned about it as an adult. Yeah, you might have. Oh, is it Mark Twain? No, but it is not Mark Twain. He's always got a witty thing to say, doesn't he? He does. Every time you go, he's always like, and the news of my death is unfortunate.

The coldest winter I've ever experienced is a summer in san francisco yeah he's not not worse than that fucking oscar wilde that oscar wilde can fuck right off you listening to me ireland fuck me if i have to listen to an oscar wilde fucking quote none of the stuff he does is funny if if i was working at airport security, if I was working at customs, and I went, have you got anything to clear? And he went, I have nothing to clear except my genius. I'd be like, deport this cunt. That's the most annoying. I just remembered another Mark Twain one.

There's lies, damn lies, and statistics. I'm pretty sure that's a Mark Twain quote. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a Mark Twain quote. He's the first guy to do stand-up, so we've got to give Mark Twain props. Yo, G, Mark Twain. How many words are named after him? Make it impossible for us, bro.

Okay, so this is a guy that's dead. Jack and myself and Kelly and definitely Aaron, too, we all learned about this guy for sure when we were children. Oh, is it that kid in the street, that adult in the street, you're not meant to go into his house? Yeah, don't do that. The white man guy. That's what we used to do with pedophiles back in the 70s.

We knew they existed and just said, stay away from that one. Good advice. Quite the system we had worked out. All right. You didn't even let him answer. It might be that guy. Is it that guy? He did probably sexually assault a lot of people. It might be that guy. Is it that guy? He did probably sexually assault a lot of people.

It is not that guy. We've come a long way in pedophile deterrence since the 70s, I think. This is one of our great advancements as a society in the last 50 years. It was more rampant in the 70s, they reckon. Anyway, so let's go. Okay. Stop talking about pedophilia. Yeah.

All right. So you learn it in school. It's something. Someone who's dead. All right. So you learn it in school. It's something, someone who's dead. Is it one of the founding fathers of this country? No. Not, no. Sorry, Patrick, you get the answer.

Okay. But close. No, but you're getting closer to the right track. You're on the right track. Is it an inventor? It is not an inventor. I'll give you a hint. There's a holiday. There's also a director.

Is it Frank Halloween? Jack O'Lantern. There's a holiday named after him. And there's a director with his name. And the holiday's been renamed. Probably not a good guy. It's a renamed holiday. Founding the holiday's been renamed probably not a good guy it's a renamed holiday founding father

you're on the right track Edison's Day we're talking about Christopher Columbus Reeve Christopher Columbus Christopher Reeve's dead I'd like to do an episode

on him we'll get to that we're not doing that today it's Christopher Columbus we all don't like Christopher Columbus now when did that happen we're gonna find out I guess you're not gonna do today. It's Christopher Columbus. We all don't like Christopher Columbus now. When did that happen? We're going to find out.

I guess you're not going to do well on these questions. Yeah, I don't know shit about him. Patrick Wyman has... We do. You asked me about Captain Cook. I know about two things, but I didn't learn about the Christopher Columbus. That is literally what I said to Patrick yesterday. I was like, I think Jim knows about Captain Cook, but not Christopher Columbus. So Patrick Wyman has a PhD in history from the University of Southern California.

Woo, fine on. There you go. He's got a podcast called Tides of History where he spent two plus years covering the early modern period. And he has a new podcast that I think just came out last week called The Pursuit of Dadliness. So check both those podcasts out. He also is the author of the book The Verge, Renaissance, Reformation, and 40 Years That Shook the World. And you can find him on Instagram at Wyman underscore Patrick. He also is the author of the book, The Verge, Renaissance, Reformation, and 40 Years That Shook the World. And you can find him on Instagram at Wyman underscore Patrick.

Tell us a little bit about yourself, Patrick, and maybe your podcast or how you got into these subjects or anything you'd like. Yeah, so I'm a historian by training. I did my Ph.D. in history, which was a very long and not especially fun process. But at the same time as I was doing that, I was covering combat sports as a journalist. I was covering MMA and boxing. And I learned how to do podcasts while I was doing that. And so I finished my PhD. It's very clear to me, I'm not going to be an academic. So I'm like, Oh, well, I could I could do a history podcast. And I've been doing that for about the past seven years. Now. It's been really fun. I got to write a book about the early modern period, I got to I history podcast, and I've been doing that for about the past seven years now. It's been really fun. I got to write a book about the early modern period.

I got to spend a lot of time writing and thinking about Christopher Columbus and the world that he was a part of. And now I've kind of moved on to other topics. But Columbus in that age is always going to have a special place in my heart. You never forget your first, as they say. All right. Well, I'm going to ask. I do. She was a short girl in my heart. You never forget your first, as they say. All right. Well, I'm going to ask. I do. She was a short girl, I believe.

Anyway. You told the story. I know. I remember. I'm going to ask Jim a series of questions about Christopher Columbus. And at the end of him answering those questions, Patrick, you're going to grade him on his accuracy, 0 through 10. Kelly's going to grade him on confidence.

I'm going to grade him on et cetera. We'll put all the scores together, and no matter what you score, it's going to be Christopher Columbus was a dickhead. So I think that's going to be overarching. That's a hint for you, I think. We all laughed at Christopher Columbus when he said the earth was round. That's why that's because of a song. What song?

He's using like an old musical song. Oh, I thought that was like from something. What year did Christopher Columbus make the first voyage across the Atlantic Ocean? You should have asked me, has he gone over the Atlantic Ocean? That would have been more difficult. 1746. Okay. Do you know what year this country was discovered yeah

what year is that well I know Independence Day alright we'll keep going what was the nationality of Christopher Columbus like where was he from he was Italian hey he was Italian that's why Apollo Creed fought the Italian Stallion,

a founding member of America, on this day in Philadelphia. I've watched Rocky, man. I know everything about history. Okay, great. Doing great. Which monarchs funded Columbus's voyage to the New World? Columbus's voyage to the New World? I'm going to say it was... I'm going to give it to...

I don't believe... I'm going to give it to the British. Yeah, they... I don't know if they were in cahoots that much with the Italians back then. I'm going to say the English royal family. And which kings decided not to fund Columbus's voyage? The Spanish.

Okay. I've got him the wrong way around, maybe. What was the original destination Columbus intended to reach? Where was he trying to go? Oh, Mauritius. Mauritius, okay. You love Mauritius. Yeah, Mauritius is a fun thing to say.

Which island in the Caribbean did Columbus... Mauritius, move on. Wait, Mauritius in the Caribbean? No. Okay. Which island in the Caribbean did Columbus first land on? Mauritius, move on. Wait, Mauritius in the Caribbean? No. Okay. Which island in the Caribbean did Columbus first land on during his voyage? St. Lucia. Okay.

What did Columbus name the indigenous people he encountered in the Americas? He might have named them, he wouldn't have named them Indians. He would have called them Swas or he would have been something racist right he would have i'm assuming but i don't know he named him whatever washington wants to call their football team next okay how many voyages damn it how many voyages did columbus make to the new world in total i know that he tied a bit of rope to his boat to begin with, so that in case he was wrong, he didn't fall off the edge. Oh, the edge of the edge, yeah.

Yeah, to begin with, he tied a bit of rope, and then he went, oh, no, I don't need the rope. I seem to be going forever. How many voyages did he make? Seven. Okay, and what was the name of his flagship during his first voyage? Oh, Queen of the Pacific. It was an ocean liner. It had water slides at the top deck.

Buffet? Yeah, buffet. Soft serve. He came back fat as fuck. Roulette. What disease brought by Columbus and his crew had a devastating impact on the indigenous population? Smallpox. You're dropping a mic right now?

Yeah, I'm dropping smallpox. I wouldn't drop any mic after all the answers you've given already. Yeah, but I'm having fun. Okay. And that's the most important thing. I know he found America. Well, he didn't find America. This is...

Well, here you go. Next question. A prickly thing to say. Who was the first European explorer to reach the mainland of America before Columbus? The first European? Yeah, before Columbus to reach the mainland, yeah. European. European.

The mainland? Yes. Because if we're talking Hawaii, which is part of America, you might not want to acknowledge it. We're not talking. You just went to Hawaii. Captain Cook? The mainland. Captain Cook.

Mainland. Mainland. Actually, Captain Cook was after that. It was 1788. Mainland. First European explorer. Oh, you've got to be longer than that because I've done the years. Oh, God. I'm going to go 1682.

For what? For whatever the year question was. The first one against first one. Still off. Look, all the Australians are sitting at home. There'll be one Australian that's like this. one, okay. The first one. Still off. Look, all the Australians are sitting at home. There'll be one Australian that's like this,

this guy's an idiot. Most Australians are sitting at home. Even the dumbest Americans know a lot of these answers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm American, so I'm the dumbest. What are you saying?

They didn't ask me this in the citizenship test. Give me an explorer, Max Schnelling. We'll just put that. No, no, it wasn't Max Schnelling. Don't be silly. You're being foolish.

Christopher Columbus also directed Home Alone. Okay, okay. What was the name? And the first Harry Potter. And the first Harry Potter, and I believe the Gremlins. I'm just going to skip around here. They might be both Spielberg. I'm not sure.

What was the name of Columbus's younger brother who also was an explorer? Tarquin Columbus. Tarquin Columbus. Tarquin Columbus. Tarquin Columbus. Sounds like a Star Wars name. Which modern day country did Columbus believe he had reached during his first voyage? Not where he did he land, but where did he think he landed? Oh, he probably thought he landed in Greece.

What is the controversial term used to describe Columbus's voyages? That would be the wrong way. Travelling the wrong way. That guy's not smart. Hey, I'm a business owner. Look, I run a podcast and a stand-up comedy. I've got comedy albums and they need to be shipped out. And what we do, what we do, right, we use ShipStation.

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What is the controversial term used to describe Columbus's voyages as a turning point in history? I don't want to say something bad. Okay. Do you know what day we observe Columbus Day in this country? I don't have holidays, you see, because I'm self-employed. So these days mean little or nothing to me. Public holidays mean nothing to me.

The only thing is sometimes I'm like, oh, the traffic's better. I love me a Jewish holiday. Big fan. Yeah. Love them. Except the not eating part. This next question is kind of similar. Because we don't have,

we can still eat. My son gets a day of school and my son comes home, he's like this, dad, yum kapoor. Okay, a couple more questions here, Jim, then we'll get to the real answers. What was the main goal

of Columbus's voyages? To find shit. to boldly go where no man has ever gone before what was the name of the settlement columbus established during his second voyage oh um david muscles what what is the name of the treaty that divided newly discovered lands between spain and portugal oh the treaty of the treaty that divided newly discovered lands between Spain and Portugal? Oh, the Treaty of Versailles. Okay, last question. Very nice, very nice. What was the overall impact of Columbus's voyages on world history?

Easy, simple question. Making the greatest country that's ever been. Yes, sir. Freedom. Freedom, yeah. Theme parks. Guns. Guns.

Yeah. The freedom to have guns. God damn, he's good uh no health care because who needs it we got leeches yo 10 out of 10 this is so good yeah anyone the greatest country that's ever been okay patrick how you doing um i'm doing fantastic they'll never do better how did jim do how did jim do on his knowledge of christopher columbus zero through 10 10 is the best. It's got to be a 10. I'm going to say that's about an 8.5.

I think that's probably better than most Americans, to be quite honest with you. I think there was less outright wrong stuff in there than most Americans are going to give you. I'm going to rehash the answers as we go through them, but I don't know. Okay. You're a very nice guy, Patrick. He thinks it's out of 100. You really pulled it together there at the end. There were some shaky moments in the lead up,

but I think that last answer, like if we're grading this, I'd say the last one really, really, really pulled the whole thing together. I missed one of his answers, but I could have sworn he said Dave and Busters. Was that correct? So how the fuck did he get an A and a half?

I didn't write it down in the notes Because I was like that couldn't have been right Clearly I was joking because I know the real answer What's the name of the settlement? No because I'm trying to make this podcast entertaining I don't need to say the real name Because no one's going to enjoy that

I leave that up to the professionals How do you do on confidence Kelly? I was going to give him a five Until the end when he named all of those great things about America, theme parks especially. So I'll give you an eight. Raging waters. You've been to raging waters lately. Okay. Not lately.

You've been sneezed at. It's Saturday. Man, me son went. It's all right. It's Saturday. You get minus 1,200. California's biggest water park. Lowest score ever.

Minus 1,200. Whatever those things were. Christopher Columbus is a dickhead. All right. What year did Christopher Columbus make his first voyage across the Atlantic Ocean? Patrick Jim said it was 1746

and he changes the answer to 1682. It's 1492. 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean. That's where I got the points. That's where I got the points that's where I got the half point because I was close you got the two right

1490 if you're plus or minus 300 years it's pretty good I think so I think so he had a two in there yeah and also

Captain Cook was way after that and he also mentioned that he directed Home Alone so this guy's been living forever I gave bonus points

for that one yeah yeah he did that's that's all he what else he didn't direct a gremlin so Chris the first the first Harry Potter movie I think he also did the second Harry Potter movie yeah he did and he also done some comedies I want to say like like in another John Hughes movie like planes trains and automobiles or something like that like I'm looking at right now he has a big career, Chris Columbus.

He's still going. You do have to put director. He did Home Alone 2. He did Home Alone 2. I just put his name in. Mrs. Doubtfire. Pixels. Mrs. Doubtfire,

Percy Jackson, and what have you. Yeah, he's rich, rich. Nothing wrong with Chris Columbus. He did do Gremlins. Yeah, yeah. Bicentennial Man, not a good one.

All right, give him an extra point. He99 what national what was the nationality of christopher columbus uh jim says italian yep that is italian is correct more specifically he was from the city of genoa so there was no country of italy at that point it was just broken down into a ton of little city states and territories um but it was within the present-day territory of the country of italy yeah okay she knows where the salami's from so then which monarchs fund that's the reason he got lost is because he was steering with his hands he kept looking for gabagool and you know there's just not a lot of that and then he was leaning at the side of the boat like ladies what is the first italian american it's just capicola oh it's just not a lot of that out there. What's a wheel? And then he was leaning at the side of the boat like, ladies.

What is Gabagool? He's the first Italian-American. It's just Capicola. Oh. It's just like it got butchered. What's Capicola? Don't ask silly questions. I don't know. Patrick said Gabagool, and I know it's from the Sopranos,

but I don't even know. It's like a spicy salami kind of thing, but then Italian-Americans just put it in pronunciation. I do like Genoa salami. I just watched Casino for the first time on a flight yesterday. First time? Yeah, never watched it. Never watched it? for the first time on a flight yesterday. First time? Yeah, never watched it. Never watched it?

Really? It's very good. It's good. It's good, but also, just get rid of Sharon Stone. She's a pain in the neck. Bobby, you just focus on your Casino, mate. There'll be other women. Okay, easier said than done.

I feel like he was too good for her. Which monarchs funded Columbus's voyage to the New World? Was it the British? It was not the British. No, it was Ferdinand and Isabella who were the Kings of what is now Spain. Isabella was the queen of Castile, which is kind of like Northern Spain.

Ferdinand was the King of Aragon, which is like the, the mostly the Catalan speaking part along the Mediterranean. Them being married, made it a single country. And they, they together funded Columbus's voyage. How do you do it? Like, does he have to come to them and be like, hey, can I, like, does he present like a...

It's like now when you want to get a grant for any scientific endeavor. If you go, I'm trying to figure out this and then rich people will give you the grant. And then they'll take some of the profits later on in history if it pays off which it did i think we're about to find out i the the best way to imagine him is to think of him as like a uh like a really bad silicon valley guy pitching a really dumb app right so he's going around to all the venture capitalists and he's saying you know you just got to give me money to make my like um replacement for the city bus app with uh with ai like that's basically what he's trying to do so he's going around to all of these different kings he goes to the kings of portugal or the king of portugal he

he tries to go to the king of france he puts out feelers to the english monarch at the time and basically they all laugh him out of the room because his idea at heart is really, really bad. His idea is not good. It's FTX. He's the original FTX. So was there a ground swelling of people who believed the world was round? Or was he like really by himself on that? No, everybody knew the world was round.

Nobody who actually spent time doing practical navigation thought the world was flat. That is a much, much later myth that gives Columbus way more credit than he deserved. But people don't believe it now. What's that? People don't believe it now. Yeah, we've gone backwards. The world's gotten dumber. So the whole world acknowledged that it was round? To the extent that they thought about it or that it was a thing.

um to the extent that they thought about it or that it was a thing like anybody who had put time into thinking about the question of what shape is the earth had pretty much come down on the side of of round well especially navigators you were saying right yeah yeah so so there were um they had even done a pretty good job of estimating the actual size of the earth to within a pretty within like pretty they got it pretty close um that's what columbus was selling was he had also done the math to figure out how big the world was but he had done it wrong um he thought the world was about one-third smaller than it actually is so what he was trying to sell them is a voyage going um west to get to asia instead of going all the way east around uh around africa or having to go through uh or having to go like overland through Asia, he's like, well, we can just go west.

But when Columbus took this to people who actually knew things about navigation and who had done the math for how big the world is correctly, they laughed him out of the room because they're like, you just you can't do math. You don't know anything about this. So they refused to fund him. The monarchs of Spain who did not have navigational experts on hand were like, yeah, sure, this is going to cost us basically nothing. And if the guy dies, so what? Who cares? We've lost nothing. I've never met a Spaniard who can do math to this day.

Yeah, it's a stereotype. I think I remember this from high school. Did Columbus think the Earth was earth was like pear-shaped he thought he thought it was round he just thought it was substantially smaller than it actually is um he like he he was not an educated guy right so there are lots of navigators in this period of time who have theoretical knowledge who know how do geometry, and they know how to collect measurements and observations and things. Columbus didn't know how to do that. He had bought some books, and kind of like self taught, and was kind of

like self taught in the theoretical arts of navigation, but he had learned it all wrong. It's like, imagine if somebody was trying to learn solely about vaccines by listening to Joe Rogan. Like that's kind of the Columbus version of learning navigation. Wait, what? That's not the way to look at it. I'm saying you're going to end up with some gaps in your knowledge, if that's your path.

This is a side note, right? So if he's going, I might end up in Asia. I might. I don't want to go to Africa. So they knew about Africa. They knew about Asia. They hadn't reached America yet. How did these things stay unknown for so long?

It feels like, especially like Australia was another couple of hundred years, a few hundred years later after this, right? So 300 years after this, they found Australia. Why was everyone so stupid? Right. So 300 years after this, they found Australia. Why was everyone so stupid? Well, OK, the deal is traveling across open ocean is really hard. It's it is a technologically and technically demanding thing to do to build ships that are capable of surviving months or years long journeys is really difficult to to find ways to navigate the currents and the winds, especially off the coast of West Africa. When you get just when you get like kind of off the coast, when you go like toward like you're cruising along the

coast of Africa off of the Sahara Desert, and then you take the big turn to go, to follow the coast of Africa inland around like the big curve toward Central Africa. There are a lot of really adverse currents and winds there. So you gotta be really good at sailing and you gotta have ships that aren't gonna fall apart in the first storm. And it took a couple of centuries of experimentation and kind of gathering practical knowledge

about how these things work before navigators could figure out, okay, here's how we're going to do this. Here are the, here are the, the, the routes we're going to take. Here's where they had to figure out that they could swing way out into the Atlantic to get around the big bulge of Africa. Cause if you try to stay close to the coast, then the currents and the winds are going to take you in the wrong direction. It's going to take forever. You're probably going to run out of food. You're going to run out of fresh water. And maybe you wind up on land and the natives kill you. So that's a problem. But the big thing was they had to have the combination of the right technology, the right knowledge to do it, and also the right incentives. So in the Middle Ages, what's the incentive to

put together an expensive expedition to try to sail out into the middle of the ocean, people are going to be like, I'm not spending money on that. When you get into the 15th century, when you get a little closer to Columbus's time, there are now three or four generations of people who have made really good money in the exploration game. So they've made really good money going to Africa, they found spices and peppers, they found gold, that's the big thing is that West Africa is one of the big sources of actual gold in this period. And they found people to enslave. So the what changes at that point in time, and the reason why Columbus is able to do this is because a few generations of people have made just tons of money by funding these expeditions

exactly in the way that venture capitalists today fund some misbegotten app, that's exactly what happened in the 15th century. People made money doing it, and so they poured more money into it, which created opportunities for people like Columbus. Yeah, that makes sense. That was a good question, Jim,

because I was thinking that same thing. But yeah, just the technology wasn't there. But then Australia was 300 years later. I was just like, we didn't... Because Australia is such a – Australia is massive. I know, but the waters to get there is massive. Oh, I know.

But there's a lot of space there because you could tell that there was the bottom half of the earth that you must have known that there's a bit of space there. There might be something in there. Yeah. It takes a long time though, man. I mean, even if you – And the Dutch were big explorers as well.

The Dutch had a go. The English had a go. The Italians had a go. Were you saying something, Patrick? Yeah, the Dutch and the English got into it a little later. So the first people to do exploring, it wasn't even the Spanish, even though the Spanish monarchs happened to fund Columbus on this voyage. It was really the Portuguese.

They were the ones who had the experience, who had the technology. The chicken. And who had put money into funding these voyages. So the kings of Portugal got ungodly rich from funding these like they were the first ones to fund a voyage that went around Africa into the Indian Ocean and got to India. There just wasn't the there just wasn't the incentive behind it before then. behind it before then. You need a combination of incentive, technological knowledge about how to build the right kind of ships, and

some sense that you're going to get a return on your investment. Yeah, remember when we were in Lisbon? That was the whole thing. Portugal used to be this really rich country. That's when it stopped back in the day. Lisbon rocks, man. Yeah, it's great. I like Portugal. Lisbon's a great place.

Alright, so we answered which kings did not fund his voyage you mentioned that uh and then what was the original destination he was trying to reach asia right so um which why was he trying to reach asia asia was already like they were shorter he was saying it's a shorter route it's shorter to go like that than around the bottom of africa they were trying to find but he wanted to go to asia a different route like a quicker route to asia they were thinking it was like he was thinking it was right there. Yeah. So instead of going around Africa, they were just going boom like that. But they didn't know America

was there. He was going down under Africa was the only way they thought they were doing it. Jeez, they were dumb. They were figuring it out. So there was a really long established overland route. But if you wanted to take Spice's overland over what's called the silk

road or one of the other routes that goes all the way through asia you've got to deal with middlemen all the way along the way right if you're if the spices are coming from what's now india and indonesia malaysia that kind of area um you've got to go through multiple layers of middlemen all of whom are taking their own cut or and adding to the price of it if you can go straight to asia you can cut out the middlemen you can bring the spices back yourself and sell them directly in europe instead of having to pay at every stage along along that way it was also a time of like big religious conflict between the christian world and the islamic world and so that made it hard to get the supplies in the first place because all of the countries in the middle are are are islamic right so they don't necessarily want to do business with christian

merchants or if they do they're going to tack on some more cost to that so there's a big financial incentive where if you can just cut out the middleman then you can make absolutely eye-watering staggering profits on selling spices so basically every country that explored tried to colonize whenever they got to a place why would did they always try to colonize because like most of asia wasn't colonized and then india was colonized and then all this type of stuff so you're saying they already knew about all the asian countries and the spices i'll tell you stuff was there wars and stuff to try to i might sound extremely ignorant here but was there wars and stuff to try to take these countries over or they just sort of got there and went nah we'll just buy some spice yeah so that's that's what the portuguese did so the portuguese the spanish went across the

atlantic right they so they're funding columbus and then they're funding or or private expeditions are funding additional uh generations of conquistadors and explorers after that the portuguese make the first voyage all the way around africa to the indian ocean and back just a few years after columbus goes in 1497 a guy named vasco dagama who like columbus is not a good guy but dagama was an actual psychopath um like a really genuinely bad person who committed like large-scale murder not a good dude dagama gets to india um he gets there these people are used to doing business they're used to they're used to trade uh he tried it's like the equivalent of showing up to

an apple store with like a box of potatoes he tries to buy all of these super expensive spices and so just to clarify you're talking the computer store not just a store that sells apples because i know the computer i feel like a box of potatoes for an apple. That's good bartering. You would think so, right? But he shows up with like a tub of rancid butter, some bad hats and some coral. And he's like, give me your spices. And of course, these guys in India, these merchant princes are like, why would we do that? So very quickly, when they figured out they didn't have good things to trade, the Portuguese pivoted to um like what you would kind of gently call piracy and um basically extracted concessions from these from these

trading states and built their own little miniature empire in the indian ocean that lasted for a few centuries um all right let's get back to these here the which island in the caribbean did the columbus first land on during his voyage? Was it St. Lucia? It was not St. Lucia. It was San Salvador. Oh. San Salvador. All right.

The Bahamas. And then what? Is it the Bahamas, San Salvador? I thought San Salvador was. It's somewhere in the Bahamas. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can you say the Caribbean or the Caribbean? I go back and forth. Yeah, me too.

I think Caribbean. Caribbean. If I'm talking about food, I go Caribbean. I say Caribbean. I don't say the Caribbean. I think Caribbean. Caribbean. If I'm talking about food, I go Caribbean. I say Caribbean. I don't say the Caribbean. I say Caribbean. My wife does something, which is, I'm close to divorce right now. I'll be quite honest. Every time she does this, I'm like, what are you, basic, simple person?

And she says, because her mother says it, guacamole, right? How do you think she pronounces it? I don't know, but her mom listens to the podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm it, guacamole, right? How do you think she pronounces it? I don't know, but her mom listens to the podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm talking to you, Becca, right now. You shouldn't be passing this on to other generations. I'm trying to think. Guacamole?

Guacamole. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was trying to think of a wrong way to pronounce it. My wife eats avocado every single day. I live with a vegan woman. I hear the name of this word every single fucking day. And if I have to hear one more time, get some guacamole. You bloody moron.

I'm like, don't say it in front of the kids. I want them to grow up better than you. Guacamole. What did Columbus name the indigenous people he encountered in the Americas? Jim said, whatever Washington wants to call their football team next. Close. That was two points right there, right? Yeah.

He named them Indians because he thought he had found the East Indies. You almost had that, Jim. I was always going to do it, but I didn't think it was that early. Yeah, because he thought he was going to Asia. Maybe he thought he was going around, so he thought they were Indians. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You almost added it. It was right there. I mean, the Washington, it's pretty close. Yeah. I think you probably got a point for that, right? Because you said whatever. I used to get almost groans from the audience, but I could never phrase this right. It's like when I married my wife, I said, my wife is Indian.

And then I used to go actual Indian not the ones you call Indian like when I said actual Indian not the other ones people were like

but they don't want to be called Indian they want to be called Native American that's not accurate yeah because she is Indian yeah she is Indian she's actual Indian not the Indian thing but he always used to

me just saying those words made the audience go I don't know about this. This might be going a bit... I was with him up until now. Yeah, yeah. I see so many offensive things. I go, actual Indian, not the ones that you call Indians.

Maybe it's when you say not the ones. Yeah. Might be the ones. I don't know, but something never resonated. Ones, maybe ones, yeah. How many... Oh, well. The ones, yeah.

How many voyages did Columbus make to the New World in total Jim said seven seven four yeah well for the you know we have we learn more in Australia yeah and what was the name of Columbus's flagship during his first voyage it was not the Queen of the Pacific. It was the Santa Maria. However, it did have water slides and a cafe. And did he have fluffy dice hanging

off the revision mirror? The voyage probably would have gone more smoothly if he had. That's how you learn about the currents. The winds, maybe? Smallpox. that's how you learn about the currents the winds maybe yeah um yeah yeah uh smallpox was that the disease eminence group brought that was that was absolutely correct yes uh and in return they they probably got syphilis so not exactly an even trade but at least there was some back and forth

oh so so the indian the native Native Americans gave him syphilis. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A little bit. That is, yeah, there's some debate among scholars about that, but the general consensus is that, yes, the first outbreaks of syphilis came immediately after the return of sailors from the Americas who presumably had been, yeah.

Yeah, and they told their wives, they're like, I was faithful to you the whole time. They suck it had been. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And they told their wives, I was faithful to you the whole time. They were, yeah. Suck it, baby. That's just pre-cum on the end there because I'm so horny. Likely just sexually assaulting all these people.

So this was their punishment, actually. Yeah. Yeah. It was a good punishment. I don't know. It might have been consensual. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. It's not always raping and pillaging. Sometimes it must be

I think in this case it is I think in this case okay okay that's why we call them a dickhead I like you're defending no no I'm not saying

they are but like okay so say you're like a Scottish woman right you've met Scottish people they're short picture this Kelly

you're Scottish now and then all the Nordic Vikings come in to rape and pillage come on there. You think they're good looking? They all look like Thor, like a whole lot of Chris Hemsworths just walk on the thing.

I'm not saying they were all honourable, but there would have been a few Scottish women that would have gone, oh, this is terrible. What's going on? Yeah, in this case, we could probably be fairly certain that it was not consensual because the first thing that columbus writes um like remember these guys are all looking for profit right like they're not they're not out there doing like a nasa thing they're trying to find some way to make this pay the first thing columbus notes about the indigenous people that he finds is

that they would be really easy to enslave and turn into a profit center like literally just enslave them take them back sell them and boom voyages paid for itself that's the first thing his mind goes to and if that's your mindset then you're probably not thinking hard about consensual sex yeah yeah he's not bringing any of them flowers how do you feel about your friend chris now yeah look gremlins is good i don't like the atrocities that he's put on the world and how he likes to enslave everyone. I hope this ends up as a quote somewhere in a fucking article. Just the most confusing quote.

They're like, Jim Jefferies is so dumb, he doesn't know that they're different people. Gremlins is Joe Dante, by the way. Oh, Aaron in from the sky. That almost sounded like Luis for a second and I was like what is he doing did he ride it or something Christopher Columbus had something to do with great yeah I don't know Jack get on that were you saying something Patrick about or no okay I had nothing to add to the gremlins conversation um who was the first European

explorer to reach the mainland of the Americasicas before columbus okay so i i assumed that in this case you were talking about the vikings so um vikings went uh west across the atlantic kind of skirting the northern rim they went to iceland first then greenland and then towards what's now probably newfoundland uh where where there has where they found evidence of a viking settlement and that would have been leaf erickson leaf erick Leif Erikson. Leif Erikson. He wrote Gremlins. He just wrote it. He wrote Gremlins, Eric. I thought you were talking about Leif Erikson.

I was like. I have a question about the Vikings real quick, though. And this is just stereotypically what you see. Whenever you see the Italian explorers or the Spanish or whatever, or the British, it's always those big boats, those big ships. The Vikings, they always put them in these little. I see what you're doing're doing jim yeah you're just trying to eat my nipple or something there on the camera but the uh the but the vikings are always like in a canoe thing or something that can't possibly be what they explored in those small boats right no they did they didn't use

the canoe they used what are called long ships um which are are actually superbly built ships, especially for sailing in kind of choppy northern waters, like the open ocean of the North Atlantic. They're driven by a combination of oars and sails. So that gives them pretty good flexibility. But mostly the Vikings were just really superb navigators. They did a really, really good job of knowing where they were. And so these voyages were long and they were pretty difficult,

but they were exceptionally skilled sailors and their ships were highly seaworthy. Did they still have all the people rowing like this? That's what he said, oars of sails. That's all them, right? Yeah, if you don't have wind and you're not particularly good at sailing with the wind, not exactly at the spot that you want it to come from, then oars are great.

Like, if you've got some dudes with strong backs and they're well fed, like, sure, you can row for a while and get your way around the winds that aren't helping. Were they all wearing hats with horns on them? No, that is a myth. Vikings did not wear horned helmets, because if you're in a fight, do you want somebody grabbing, like, just having a thing to grab onto? No, you is a myth. Vikings did not wear horned helmets because if you're in a fight, do you want somebody just having a thing to grab onto? No, you want a hornless helmet. Let me stop you right there because we go to World War I,

the Germans who put together a fairly good army. Look, they never won the games, but they always put on quite a show. So far, you're pro-Columbus. I'm not pro. I had to speak out against the Germans for once. For once. They had a spike on their helmet in World War I.

They weren't smart enough to go no horns. And how far did they get? Well, they still had the spikes on their helmet. That didn't last very long. They switched to the other ones, the ones that ended up being made famous by the Nazis. That lasted until about 1915. The one with the Darth Vader bit at being made famous by the Nazis. That lasted until about 1915. The one with the Darth Vader bit at the back. Samurai head.

Yep. What was the name of Columbus's younger brother, who was also an explorer? Is he important? You said Darkwyn. Darkwyn. Darkwyn. So, Darkwyn was the last king of Rome,

deposed probably in 509 B.C. That was not Columbus's younger brother. He was still a Dalian. What was his name? Sorry. Bartholomew, I think, Bartolomeo, something like that. Bartolomeo. Bartolomeo. Bartolomeo. Yeah. Somehow the less talented one in the family.

Yeah, I was going to say, is he important or did we just throw that in there to make? No. Columbus's sons were more interesting people than Columbus was, his son and his grandson. His son ended up being like a big book collector. He developed one of the coolest libraries of the 16th century. Did a lot less harm than his dad, put it that way. How did he get to the 16th century if Columbus was hanging around in the 14th century um did a lot less harm than his dad put it that way how did he get to the 16th

century if columbus was hanging around the 14th century oh 1500 it's always the ones after in it fucking hell um what is the performance like this i discovered lint in my belly button that's i'm bartholomew columbus so there's there's a lot i I can't stress this enough that there were a lot of real dumb ass vibes in in the exploration game at this point like Columbus he was not smart in the sense that we that we think about it like he was not a genius or a great man or like doing something that was kind of unexpected like he had one good idea which is i'm gonna go south to the canary islands before i turn west to go across the atlantic that's the only good idea he had he was a terrible manager of people his crews hated him uh he was consistently wrong about where he was about where

he thought he was going he was wrong about the size of the earth uh he at one point gets arrested and sent back to spain and shanes um because he has so mismanaged his subordinates. He inaugurates like a pretty horrible relationship between the Spanish and the indigenous peoples. Like he's really he really doesn't do a good job. Like and these colonies at the beginning are not profitable. or not profitable um like he the only way that he can think of to make them pay is through enslaving people and shipping them all the way across the atlantic when like that's not even a good business model either like there are other and better places to find enslaved people so even in like the one semi-profitable idea that he had it was not viable it was like trying to it was

like being like okay well we can get get oil out of the Earth's core, but we're going to have to go to the core for it. There are other ways to do that. When you said there's other and better places to enslave people, how do you gauge that? Actually, don't answer that. Does he come back to the mainland like this? They'd be good to be slaves.

Not the best slaves you've ever had. Good, solid. No, that's literally what he said. It's the first thing he writes when he's trying to tell the monarchs of Spain that he's found something worth finding. He's like, look, I found some people. They're real docile. And if we can get them to not die in transport,

we're going to make good money off of this. That's literally what he writes. That's not an exaggeration. That's what he says. What day do we observe Columbus Day? I good money off of this. That's literally what he writes. That's not an exaggeration. That's what he says. What day do we observe Columbus Day? I don't even remember this. And I know this is October 12th. And it's controversial, right?

People don't, I mean, because of all this stuff. Yeah, a lot of states have made it Indigenous Peoples Day now. And to the extent that it's almost giving Columbus too much credit to make him a villain. He just wasn't that important. Other people were doing basically the same thing he was doing. Other people were better navigators. They were better managers of people. They were better soldiers.

They were better sailors. He just happened to be in the right place at the right time and became famous. He wasn't even particularly well-known for the first couple of centuries after this happened. famous he wasn't even particularly well known for the first couple of centuries after this happened he only really became a hero or considered an important figure much much later on in retrospect when people were looking for a hero he's he's much more of like a replacement level historical figure like you could replace him with just about any other sea captain who was wandering around western europe around 1492 and the outcome wouldn't have been that much different he's not like a special guy in terms of his talents and his skills who are some

underappreciated explorers that did the same thing uh okay so um one of the guys who gets hired by the english crown a venetian guy shortly afterward uh giovanni caboti or john cabot as he's usually known he was he was much smarter. The Portuguese guys that they were hiring to go around Africa were much better, were generally much more skilled navigators and had a much better idea of how to run a long voyage. Not the guy who eventually makes it to India. Vasco da Gama was not really like a seafaring guy. He was like a compromise candidate to lead the thing. And again, out to be a psychopath like a very much a psycho okay so you're saying that christopher columbus had one good idea and that was to sail was it south you said or something

yeah just to sail in a direction that no one was selling well no but he was basing it on information that he had got that other people had figured out yeah but i don't understand why people weren't just like, I'm going to point my boat in that direction and go as far as I can go. And then if I run out of food, I'll turn back. Because if you go straight west from the Iberian Peninsula,

the winds will not take you straight across the Atlantic. They don't blow that direction. If you want to find winds... What's that? We did an episode on sailing about a month ago. You can tic-tac. You tic-tac.

Exactly. Tic-tac across the ocean. If you sail south to the Canary Islands first, if you sail south off the coast of Africa and then turn, then you will find the right winds that make it a really easy voyage. So like, sure, you can go straight across the Atlantic,

but you're probably not going to get anywhere. You're going to run out of food and water before you find anything or you're going to get wrecked in a storm so if you grew up in florida like i did you would know exactly where these winds are i was saying this yesterday to you it's where all the hurricanes they form off the coast of africa and they go in that straight path towards the caribbean the caribbean and florida whatever and that's that's what they they discovered back then they're basically just riding through that so yeah they found the source of those winds. And that's because Columbus had been there before,

because he'd been trading in slaves and gold and whatnot off the coast of Africa. He knew that these winds existed. So that was basically his sole big idea. But there were dozens of ships making this voyage every year by the point that Columbus does this. Like, do you think nobody was going to figure that out after columbus like he he just happened to be the guy who did it at the right time and managed to not get wrecked in a storm on the way well that's the thing about everything it's like everything would have been discovered eventually it's like yeah as soon as we got to

planes we would have just called up delta and gone, just don't keep going there. Go down a bit. Go down a bit. Have a look out the window. It all would have been figured out. Goal of Columbus's voyages, we've gone over that, I think, pretty well, unless there's something we missed. What was the name of the settlement? Helicopters.

You wouldn't have found as much with helicopters. I don't go far. What was the name of the settlement Columbus established during the second voyage? Was itave and busters it was not dave and busters it would have been more fun for everybody if it had been it was called isabella uh and it did not last very long because again not just that columbus was a bad person um who was trying to exploit the indigenous people so too were the people that he left behind, um, who, uh, decimated the native population.

Who, how many people did he leave behind? A few dozen, I think. Hmm. What is the name of the treaty that divided newly discovered lands between Spain and Portugal? Um,

you said treaty of Versailles. I know it's not that. Yeah. Uh, this was the treaty of Tordesillas in 1494. And that is why Brazil became a Portuguese possession. This was the Treaty of Tordesillas in 1494, and that is why Brazil became a Portuguese possession and most of the rest of the Americas became a Spanish possession. Oh, that's why they speak Portuguese in Brazil?

Hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and then the Spaniards took over the rest. Yeah, because the rest of South America, except there's a little French Guiana part there. Yeah. Assuming they speak French there. And what was the overall...

Do they hate the Spanish down there at all? Is there some and what was the overall hate the spanish down there at all do they like is there some pushback from the mayans or whatever that they go on bloody spanish i know this that in this is i know from growing up in miami and like knowing a lot of people that are from south america different countries in south america is that they look at the argentinians as the snobby like in that in that continent as like the stuck-up kind of that's why during the World Cup, I think a lot of the people in South America probably weren't rooting for them

because they're kind of like... They're like all Italian. Yeah, they think that they're better than the rest of them, you know? But they... They had a few Germans there for a while. I don't know how they look at the Spanish. I don't know.

Like, maybe they're... I don't know. I have no clue. Did you know Argentinian food is just Italian food? What? Bibbidi-bobbidi-what? When did that happen? Argentina is a country of recent European migrants, just like the United States is.

A lot of people in the late 19th and early 20th century, when they're trying to decide, well, where are we going to go? You can either go to New York or you can go to Buenos Aires. And so you get pretty much the same migration stream, it just gets split in two and goes in different directions. Brazil, too. Yeah. same migration stream it just gets split in two and goes in different directions brazil too yeah yeah there's an argentinian food place by me that has empanadas and then just spaghetti

chicken parm it blew my mind yeah but i don't think i don't know if that's traditional food i don't know i don't know it is now okay uh what was the overall impact of Columbus's voyage? Is it messy to eat? All right, edit that out. What? Jesus Christ. What was the overall impact of Columbus's voyages on the world history of Jimson making the greatest country there's ever been? Freedom, theme parks. He said he did well on that, Patrick.

Yeah. Yeah, I think that is an accurate depiction of the way that we are we're we're told to understand columbus right that like when when we think about the story of how uh the united states comes to be columbus kind of gets shoehorned in there even though he's not working for the english monarchs it's a couple hundred years earlier than most of what we associate with the foundation or the events that lead to the foundation of the united states but for reasons that don't have that much to do with columbus himself and have a lot to do with the united states as a melting pot country of immigrants in the 19th and 20th centuries columbus became an important figure to try to try to tie all those different strands together so

if you're trying to give recent italian immigrants a reason to feel american you've got this columbus figure who's like oh we can just use this guy and be like yes there have been italians here all along we're all part of this same thing we're all in this together that's how columbus ends up getting used as a as kind of a symbol of uh of a changing america or an america that's coming together out of all of these different elements it's not a reflection of historical reality but memory and history are not the same thing as as historical reality or how does how does it italy italians seem to get away sort of scot-free in the eyes of history no one ever goes and the bloody italians did this that and the other because if you know so we got christopher glombers and then we got they were bloody nazis they were like mussolini yeah they were nazis and they they just like this hey oh pasta right

like they're better food that's right organized crime brings people together organized crime all this type of stuff and everyone's just like jesus oh yeah they killed j. They're all fucking... What a pain in the ass, the Italians. And I love going there. Wonderful, boy. I don't know. Any theories on that? Don't you think the Italians get a bit of a pass in world history? Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think it's for a few reasons.

So a lot of the bad stuff they did was before there was a country of Italy, right? So if you can say, well, that wasn't, that wasn't Italians. That was the Genoese,

or that was the Venetians, or that was the Florentines or whatever. Then you can kind of, you can kind of spread things out a little bit blame wise. They're very selective about the credit that they take for Rome. So they're like, Hey, look,

we gave you amphitheaters and aqueducts and things like that. And not like we genocided the Celts or what have you so they get to again it's this memory thing they get to be real selective um and and also like you think about the recent history of Italy like you want to kick a mother down like they they they they tried and failed to create an empire like the only thing they succeeded in doing was poison gassing people in Ethiopia. They didn't succeed in creating an empire. Mussolini was a loser. They lose World War II.

And then they've got, like, decades of civil unrest. You clearly haven't been to Italy recently because kick them while they're down. It's hot chicks on mopeds. None of them seem to work and they eat pasta every fucking day. But do you want to focus on the bad past stuff or do you want to focus on the hot chicks on mopeds? If you've got hot chicks on mopeds, you can get away with a lot as a country. And sports cars. I think the food is a big thing too,

because it's like, even with Germany, you're like, you know, you're like, but then you're like, oh man, with the food in Italy,

you're in a good gelato. We had boiled meat in Vienna, which was good. It was fine. It was good. It was very like, that was the best they can do though. It was the best version of it you could eat for you still have your hose in or teffer

what are you up to what is it called what are you up to boiled boiled meat yeah huh that's the Germans what are they up to in the v and people from uh austria what are you up to yeah it's called like teffer if you're if you're going to be served food by a former fascist would you rather be served boiled meat or pasta right i mean i'm gonna go with pasta myself i don't know what's trump cooking oh overdone steak with ketchup i said it i said it so brave okay uh i've lost my edge patrick this is the part of the podcast we call our dinner party fact.

We ask our guests to give us a fact about this subject, something obscure, interesting, they can use to impress people. What do you got for us? So, I've got a couple, but the reason that America is called America comes from an Italian explorer of much

the same generation as Columbus, a guy named Amerigo Vespucci, who explored up and down the west, the east coast of the United States. Amerigo Vespucci, before he was an explorer who lent his name to America was a was a pimp. He was a procurer of of sex. That was his job. And that's why we have the Jersey Shore. of sex. That was his job. And that's why we have the Jersey Shore now. That's why we've got America. Thank you, America. America, the whorehouse of the world.

And I'm saying this as a fan of whorehouses. Why are you using that accent? Because this is what I do when I'm acting proud of America. You sound a little bit like Sylvester Stallone's less talented brother right there. Frank Stallone. I do it.

It's actually my fraternity voice that I've been doing on vacation with my family. I walk around and I'm like this Maui 2023. And I'm like, you've got to come to Maui. And then my wife will go, why? And I go, I don't know, something like brotherhood? It's a little bit Zoolandry, I think.

Well, Patrick Wyman, thank you for being here again, his podcast. Being alphabetic means something to me. Patrick's podcasts are Tides of History. Check that one out. And also his new one, The Pursuit of Dadliness. Those are everywhere you can listen to podcasts and then also his book is The Verge Renaissance, Reformation and 40 Years

That Shook the World and on Instagram at Wyman underscore Patrick thank you again. Thanks for having me Patrick I sometimes I learn a little sometimes I learn a lot this I've learned and probably forgotten most of it.

Normally I can take away one or two things, but there was too much going in at once, so I'll have to listen to the podcast back. Well, dinner party fact, I think, yeah. Might have been because you were trying to eat Forrest Nipple through half of it. You were a little distracted. You can go, America was named after a prostitute.

I remember that. A pimp. No, no, no. It was a pimp. Yeah, I know, but that's funny. I'm trying to be funny. Well, try again. I'm trying to get the one thing that I look wrong.

Let's try it again. Try it again. Hey, I know that America was named after a bloke who saw prostitutes. No, but you go, if you're ever at a party, we plan to do this podcast. All right, ladies and gentlemen, if you're ever at a party and someone plan to do this podcast? All right, ladies and gentlemen, if you're ever at a party and someone says, I don't agree with prostitution, go, well, you don't agree with America.

There you go. And say, I don't know, and walk away. Goodnight, America. Sleep tight.