I Don't Know About That - Cults

Episode Date: March 29, 2022

In this episode, the team discusses cults with hosts of the "Sounds Like a Cult" Podcast, Amanda Montell and Isa Medina. Follow Amanda and Isa's podcast on all socials @SoundsLikeACultPod ! You can also follow them on their personal Instagrams @isaamedinaa and @Amanda_Montell . Be sure to check out Amanda's book "Cultish: The Language of Fanaticism". Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/IDKAT for ad free episodes, bonus episodes, and more exclusive perks! Tiers start at just $2! Go to JimJefferies.com to buy tickets to Jim's upcoming tour, The Moist Tour.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Okay. Elephants. Sycophants. Why are they both fat? You might find out on this podcast or another podcast that covers these two subjects. All right. How you going?

Sycophants are fat? People always suck up to you, always fatties. I don't know. Not like I'm fucking trim. I'm a bit of a sick offense myself. I'm a sick offense too, I guess. Same. Listen, we got to stick together.

Sick offense, yeah. We had this joke on the JIT about how whenever there's an H on the end of someone's name, it adds 10 pounds. So Sarah, S-A-R-A, hot chick. Sarah, S-A-R-A, H, fat chick. Hannah with an H, you big girl. Hannah with an A. Hot.

Oh, hot girl. There's no thin Jonas. Works with men as well. There's no thin Noahs. You've never met a thin Noah or a Jonah they don't exist it's the H at the end the H at the end

oh no I spell my name J-A-C-K-H I'm screwed how much research did you do into that theory it's just what I think there's no science involved Kelly good thing our expert today is on that.

The letter H. Oh, our expert. Does our expert have an H in the end of their name? No. Oh, good, good, good. Isaiah? If they show up and they're, you know, Isaiah's got an H in the end. I know, but I think they're pretty thin.

I know, Isaiah's a thin. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's any biblical now. Isaiah, is that biblical? Elijah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's any biblical now. Isaiah is that biblical? Elijah. Yeah. Elijah's biblical. Sarah ain't biblical. Sarah ain't biblical. Hannah's not biblical. I

Okay, I won't say that because I got a relative with that name. Well, they're gonna know. Y'all, your relatives are gonna have an H in the other minute. I think I've cracked the code. Gary with an H what about like Elizabeth where it's a TH does that still hold up yeah Elizabeth's are bigger than Lizzie's

Lizzie's are smaller chicks Lizzo Lizzo an O on the end now we're talking a whole different thing Jumbo Jumzo. An O on the end. Now we're talking a whole different thing. Jumbo. Jumbo had an O on the end. O adds 20 pounds. Although I've never met a

fat Milo. I've never met a Milo. All the Milos I've met are under five, so you can't really judge. And they're dogs. Now there's that one guy, Mano Yana Lama Lama Lewis. But he's thin. He's a great guy.

But hate keeps you thin. Yeah. You know? Hate does keep you thin, man. Hate does keep you thin. Like, think of all the great dictators throughout time who were hateful, except for Kim Jong-un. Yeah, but no, but he lost a lot of weight.

Did he? Yeah. Because he hates himself. He's a hateful fuck. He hates himself.ful, except for Kim Jong-un. Yeah, but no, but he lost a lot of weight. Did he? Yeah. Because he hates himself. He's a hateful fuck. He hates himself. Yeah, good for him. He needed a win, he did. He hasn't been in the media for a while.

It's like we've forgotten about him. He's sitting around in his white outfits going, anyone scared of us? Anyone? No one's scared of us? Can you imagine being his personal trainer? It's got to be. You might. I don't know

Please sir Can you do 20 buck burpees? I don't want to But we need to hit the goal weight You know he has a special scale That doesn't read right Yeah I used to have a scale as a kid

That still had the circle on it Where it just goes And goes around And I remember Like it went to about 150 kilos Was the max of the circle on it where it just goes and i i remember like it went to about 150 kilos was the max of the circle and i was like i knew a member of my family that would have tipped that she would have spiraled she would have gotten on it and gone i'm eight kilos it's working it's good money i can't believe they haven't gotten rid of the scales at doctor's offices where they have to do like the big block and what the fuck is all that about like it's

we're gonna move away and move away along and then also whatever they weigh you they go i get up on the scale i'm like i've got keys and phones in my pocket and my wallet. I keep all my receipts. Can I take a shit first? And it's like my naked weight, my other weight, is about six pounds different. You know what I mean? Depending on the jacket I'm wearing or whatever, it could be like between three and six pounds different. Yeah, there's two things.

So the last time I was at the doctor's office, I said, yeah, I got my phone, keys, all that stuff. And she just held out like a folder like this and to like put it on there and i put it all in there and it just all collapsed and fell on the floor i was like well that was good and then it's always embarrassing because i mean i am overweight people can see my weight but i guess they don't know how much i weigh because they're like trying you know they're sliding the little one i'm up like you're gonna have to take the big one out go yeah go up one more there yeah oh, really? I'm like, yeah.

I always, so the moment I'm like 214 pounds or something, I like to be 200 on telly and then, you know, I'm doing the Tonight Show this week, so I'm not going to be fatter than I normally have for that, right? Wear black. Way ahead of you, Jack. Yeah, do you know

that Johnny Cash was 300 pounds? It's just the outfit. His Photoshop budget was insane, mum. Anyway, so. Good jobs, damn. So, but I have little tiny legs. I'm all torso.

So people always think I'm thinner than I am. I used to crush, like I weigh less. People think I weigh less than I am. I used to crush at those things at the carnivals. Do they still do the thing where there's a bloke who guesses your weight? What a thankless job that is. You have to stand next to people. You win a toy.

You look about 240 pounds. Well, 230, I was wrong. Hey, you look 150. No, I'm 180. Thank you. Hey, have a cape that has Superman on it. Fucking off you go. Or a fucking fluffy toy.

All right, well. They should get churros at that. That'd be a good thing. Now you're... Exactly. Because now you're like, the fatties are going, oh God, I want a churro. But I don't want people to know me weight.

But I really want a churro. See the dilemma? What about that restaurant in Vegas where you... Heart Attack Cafe. Yeah, yeah. It's like if you're over 300 pounds or something, you eat for free. What? Exactly what it is. Is that it? I'm going to go wear heavy boots. There's a giant

scale out. It's on Fremont Street where there's tons of people just out there drinking. There's a giant scale facing the restaurant and you get on and it shows your weight to everybody on Fremont Street. And if you're over pounds you get you get to eat free in the heart attack cafe and i think i think people have actually had heart attacks and i want to go there next time i think if you're like an nba player though and you're still ripped in 300 pounds i'd give it a go i'd

be like heart attack grill you know because i'm one of those broke nba players who needs a free meal yeah that's how you work around. Like my wife's big scam in life is she goes, we watch The Bachelor and she goes, what you should do is get the engagement and then you can sell the ring after the thing doesn't work. I'm like, selling a secondhand engagement ring, what are you getting, like 15 grand or something like that?

You've had to be on a reality TV show. You've had to be engaged. I'm like, she's not a mastermind criminal, my wife. And there's a rule. You have to be together for a certain amount of time in order to be on a reality TV show. You've had to be engaged. I'm like, she's not a mastermind criminal. And there's a rule. You have to be together for a certain amount of time in order to be able to keep the ring. If you break up right afterwards, you have to give it back to Neil Lane. This is all good stuff. Is this the Patreon

we're doing right now? No. Oh, we better start the podcast. Where am I this week, Jack? Hold on one second. I just want to clarify. You have to be over 350 pounds to eat for free. We have no shot. You know they used to have it at 300, but they were losing too much money. Yeah. So don't go there unless you're over 350.

Yeah, and what they do is you can't get a mobility scooter in the place. The doors are too small. That's how they fucking keep you out. That's how they keep the prices down. They still have the gimmick of the scale. There's stairs up to the front door. One more thing about the Heart Attack Grill, since you brought that up. One of the restaurant's promotions is a reward

for customers who finish a triple or quadruple bypass burger. Oh, yeah. After which they are placed in a wheelchair and wheeled out to their vehicle by their personal nurse. Someone dressed like a nurse. America's so fucking stupid. Goddamn.

But also, they know you're in Vegas. You know, you haven't driven your vehicle there. You're probably drinking or you're bloody on holiday without your car. They just wheel you on the Fremont Street. My son got caught in the on the fucking

the zip line over the top of Fremont. You got stuck in the middle? Yeah, when he was four. Oh, no. Fuck, we were shitting ourselves. Did they have to get like a big stick? They were doing this, okay, no need to be nervous. Our fucking son's stuck in the middle of the street dangling from a wire. They had to send another bloke out there

with a stick to push him to the end. Oh my gosh. I just saw a video recently actually, these people were ziplining like in the jungle and the kid is going first, the dad's right behind him and the kid stop abrupt stops abruptly and there's a sloth just going really slowly on the zipline and i'm like i wonder how like how do you get out of that situation well he did i mean the poor

sloth was just like what the fuck was the sloth just tossed off no he stayed on and so they're the kid's like what do we do legend says they're still up there to this day. I remember because he was four and it was one of those things that was like a rite of passage thing where I was like, come on, mate, you're going to be fine. Oh, it's a bit high up. Yeah, but you're not going to get it. Nothing wrong is going to happen.

These people do this every day. I'll never trust you again. Fucking hell, halfway through he just stops. And I'm like, oh, balls. Well, speaking of the Patreon, how can they find it? Patreon.com slash IDKAT. And we've got merch now. So it's idontknowaboutthat.com.

You can grab merch. I don't have all the samples in yet, but Jack's wearing an Archaeopteryx shirt. This sweatshirt says give them what they want on the back. There's trucker hats. Trucker hats. We got cunt mugs. We got. This Jim Jefferies hat I'm wearing is just a hat.

Not on the store. Someone made it for it and gave it to me. But there is a Bikaki shirt and it's pretty funny. I was wearing my April 18th. I got a whole lot of April 18th clothing that people just give me. I've never sold any. But I was wearing my April 18th. I got a whole lot of April 18th clothing that people just give me. I've never sold any. But I was wearing my April 18th T-shirt. I went out to play golf the other day with my son and Andrew Wontok

and his daughter. We were going to have a round with the kids helping them swing, you know. And his daughter looked up at me and went, what is April 18th? And I went, ah, didn't think about that. And I went, a friend of mine's birthday. Yeah. My mom's birthday. She's like, why?

And I said, I'm just a big fan of his birthday, man. That's his name. We were in Cabo. It was literally just the hat that was sitting on the front seat of my car. That was how the choice was made. So please subscribe to the Patreon. Buy some merch. People have been asking for merch so those of you have been asking for it it's here or it's going to be here right yeah it should be it should be launched oh by the time it's okay

where am i this weekend jack i don't know where this weekend you just came back from texas oh it was a good shows yeah we all enjoyed i was on fallon either my life. I've got a bit ready for Fallon that I don't know because I have to have the pre-interview, right, which will happen. I only found out I'm doing Fallon like an hour ago, right? And we can cut this out if they cancel like they always do on me. And so I've got a bit worked out, but it might get squashed by the producers because they ring up

and they say, what are you going to talk about? No, I don't know if this will get through we'll have a go we'll do a follow-up we'll talk about it well i'll tell well you're gonna be in grand rapids michigan april 8th ah grand rapids michigan that's where we're going to be one of those big tubes going down the fucking rapids no and then april 9th green bay Bay, Wisconsin. Ah, the Bay of Pigs. I'm joking. I'm joking. If Bill Max picked it up.

Some tickets. Yeah, that's me. That's me TV show, Bay of Pigs, that I'm trying to promote. Get it up and running. If you're a TV producer out there and you want to have Bay of Pigs, we'll have all the Hannahs and Sarahs you can imagine. So April. Full circle. The pen will be shaped like an H Oh my gosh

I do not endorse this messaging It's not a real show Kelly Until it's made I'm gonna host it As long as you hire me I'm just trying to find a show that I'm allowed to host Because you can't have a good looking host in the Bay of Pigs Speaking of shows that you're gonna be on Here's some more I'm just trying to find a show that I'm allowed to host because you can't have a good-looking host in the Bay of Pigs, right?

Speaking of shows that you're going to be on, here's some more. April 21st and 22nd, Edmonton. All right. Do you need to advertise those? Well, Edmonton and Calgary. That's the next two days, April 23rd and 24th. Yeah, Edmonton and Calgary. So it was a Friday night and a Saturday night.

We've added a Thursday and a Friday to the respective cities, so they get an extra show each. Those two shows aren't sold out. The Friday and Saturday are sold out, but the extra shows have still got tickets. So come and see. So April 21st is a Thursday. You add that show in Edmonton, buy tickets for that.

And then April 24th is a Sunday. I added that show. I added that show there. If you're in Edmonton and Calgary and you didn't get tickets, there's shows on Thursday in Edmonton and Sunday in Calgary. Yeah. And in Forest is going to be there. I'll be there. Tommy Campbell. I've got another

coming as well. That's right. And if you're not in Michigan or Wisconsin, when Jim's there on April 8th and 9th, I'll be in Tampa. If you're near Tampa, side splitters, April 7th through 9th. Great club. Fun times. Six shows. Plenty of tickets.

Nothing against you, Green Bay. It's just anything with a bay in it, I call it Bay of Pigs. Bay area? Bay of Pigs? Bay of Pigs. And then locally, April 15th and 16th, there'll be an Escondido down in the San Diego area. So at the Grand Comedy Club.

Come on out. And IDCAT. Go follow our Instagram. Not everybody's following it. Go listen to Club. And IDCAT, go follow our Instagram. Not everybody's following it. IDCAT podcast. Follow that. There's a link to the Patreon on there, I believe. And I think that's all the promotion we have to do today. Yeah, let's meet our guests.

Please welcome our guests, Isam Adina and Amanda Montel. Ah, welcome to the show. Now it's time to play. Yes, no. Yes, no. Yes, no. Yes, no. Yes, no. Yes, no. Judging a book by its cover.

Now, all I know is that you both do a podcast together. This is the only bit of information I've got. Do you want to know who's who? Well, I know. I know. Issa and Amanda. Okay, I'm out. I'm out.

But this is the first time we've had two guests, one in studio and one on Zoom. So this is the first time we've had two guests, one in studio and one on Zoom. So that's the first. Issa's standing here and Amanda says her name in the bottom corner. Okay, well, I didn't know. There you go. And normally what I try to do is I try to pick from the background of where you're sitting what's going on,

and you're obviously sitting in our studio in the famous Hollywood improv. And, okay, Amanda, there's another girl who's mimicking you in the famous Hollywood improv. And okay, Amanda, Amanda's, there's another girl who's mimicking you in the background. Oh, mirror. You work in some office where there's a lot of, and you've got a bit of artwork. Okay, so there's two of you, you do a podcast. I've got to ask some questions.

I know, okay. Does your podcast relate to a social activity? It can. Very much so. Very much so. There we go. I don't mean to be crude. Is this sex related?

It can. Sometimes. Sometimes. Sometimes. Not specifically. Not typically. Not typically. I mean, when it gets bad.

Is it like not educational but a fun activity we're talking about today? I would say more educational, but like we do it and we talk about it in a fun way. Correct. Yeah. I would say it's probably not fun though. Yeah, it's not traditionally fun. There are tons of documentaries about this topic. That's a massive clue.

You've watched some for sure. Oh, I watch a lot of documentaries. It's hot right now. Yes. Oh, murder. You murder people. I know your lot. You're bloody talking about true crime.

Oh, okay. I got that wrong. I'm very excited about it. Close, but no cigar. I'm trying to think. Did you watch the NXIVM documentary? I did. Are you like cults?

Yeah. I thought it was going to be more subtle. Yeah, that was pretty tight. Have you ever heard of a cult? We don't need to go for 10 minutes while he guesses the topic. I love cults. I love cults. I'm going to give a riddle.

I don't know a riddle. Haven't we already done cults? No. I've talked to somebody about cults. Probably someone. I'm pretty suggestible. I'll join your cult. I feel like stand-up comedians are

because stand-up itself is kind of a cult. Oh, yeah. We've got a weird community. Do you stand-up? Yeah. Issa Medina and Amanda Montel host the Comedy Cult Podcast, Sounds Like a Cult. Amanda Montel host the Comedy Cult Podcast, Sounds Like a Cult.

Amanda Montel is a linguist and author. Her most recent book is Cultish, The Language of Fanaticism. You can find her on Instagram at Amanda underscore Montel. That's M-O-N-T-E-L-L. And Issa Medina is a Latina comedian and a writer. And you can find her every Wednesday performing at the Formosa Cafe in West Hollywood and on Instagram at Issa Medina. However, I got to spell that because it's I-S-A-A-M-E-D-I-N-A-A. Because someone else had the.

Someone else took a 1A. Cyrus sounds like an old bloke at Thanksgiving. He's trying to say the right things. No. He said trying to say the right thing. No. He said he's a Medina. That's your girl, your partner. You're brought to Christmas. Good, good, good, good.

There's extra A's in her name. It has nothing to do with that. The world's different now, but that's good. You're doing great. You're doing great. I'm on board. All right, Jim, then if you're paying attention, how do you find her on Instagram? Spell it. I don't know how to spell it. I'm on board. All right, Jim. Then if you're paying attention, how do you find her on Instagram?

Spell it. I don't know how to spell it. That's what I was doing. Follow the podcast at sounds like a cult pod on all socials. Thank you. Isam Amanda for being here. And if you want to tell us a little bit about your podcast. Yeah.

So, uh, we're a comedy cult podcast. Every week we pick a different topic. Um, like the fringe group area of everywhere from like trader jokes, So we're a comedy cult podcast. Every week we pick a different topic on like the fringe group area everywhere from like Trader Joe's to CrossFit to Elizabeth Holmes

to SoulCycle. And we talk about, you know, it sounds like a cult, but is it really? And Amanda, having written her book, did like a lot of research on real cults and she couldn't fit everything in the book. So we were like, all right, let's make it fun and so oh i love this topic i'm a big fan of cults it's what trader joe's is considered the concept of the podcast is that every week we pick one of these different

fanatical fringe groups that put the cult in culture if you will and we discuss it with the help of like games and special guests and research to try to determine whether or not it is a live your life, a watch your back, or a get the fuck out level. Yeah, so it has levels. Spoiler, Trader Joe's is Wait, I forgot. Live your life.

It was borderline live your life, watch your back because, no, I think it was live your life for consumers. It's a watch your back if you no i think it was it was live your life for consumers yeah it's a watch your back if you work at trader joe's yeah i've always thought the trader joe's was overrated i've been quite vocal i love trader joe's but the employees are too happy and so that leads me towards we talked about that well what's hilarious is that the word love bombing is so trendy right now. So someone straight up like messaged us and was like,

the Trader Joe's employees love bombing you in the checkout line. I'm like, bitch, that is not love bombing. They do have literature too. It's the only place you can get a Weiss bar. Not anymore, I think they got rid of them. No, they got them back. They're back. Get a what?

My freezer's full with them. There's these mango bars, sorbet bars with a strip of vanilla ice cream on the side. They're very popular in Australia. They're from a company called Weiss. Ooh. They're really good. And they're very good, but you can't buy them in America. But what they did was they bought them from Australia, the actual Weiss bars, and they

rebranded them as just mango pops or whatever at Trader Joe's. And that's the only place I can get them. And I went there I said oh where's all those mango the weas but the mango bars are the thing and they're like they're like you're the seventh Australian to come in today oh my god yeah oh there are whole Facebook groups with like hundreds of thousands of members that just get on to discuss like what location has what product but really it's just like some reappropriated thing they do boom bars now or whatever the

bambers or whatever anyway sounds like a racial slur all of his things sound like slurs their marketing is just like for white people so they're like let's rebrand and make it digestible, for lack of a better term.

Boomba is actually an Australian slang term for a fat person. So it is a slur. When you're a kid, you go, you're a fatty, fatty boomba. And then as you're an adult, you just go, that boomba over there. So that's a real thing. But that's not what I'm saying. They're a peanut snack from Israel that they give to children. They actually stop them from having peanut allergies, and they're hard to buy in this country. Or Bambas, I'm saying. Anyway're a peanut snack from Israel that they give to children. They actually stopped them from having peanut allergies,

and they're hard to buy in this country. Or Bambas, I was saying. Anyway, I've gone off on a tangent. Let's talk about cults. All right, so here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to ask Jim a series of questions about cults. When he's done answering those, Isa and Amanda. Why do you keep finishing my sentences today?

Because you were slow on that. I thought you forgot her name. I was going to ask them to explain their podcast. You're really, you know, really, whatever that term is that you use for men. You were the one who couldn't say guests. So I'm just trying to help. That part was edited out.

Thanks for bringing it up. So you're going to grade them on accuracy. Zero through 10, 10's the best. And then Kelly's going to grade them on confidence. Zero through 10, I'm going to grade them on et. Zero through 10, 10's the best. And then Kelly's going to grade them on confidence. Zero through 10, I'm going to grade them on et cetera. We'll add all the scores together. If Jim gets a 21 through 30, you're a cult, cheer club, 11 through 20, cultural appropriation, zero through 10, and culter.

Okay. Exciting. Worst one ever. So, Jim, what's a cult? A cult is normally a new religion that hasn't found its way to the big masses yet. So the difference between a religion and a cult is a couple of hundred years is the best way to put it.

So if you were to say like Scientology would have been a cult, but now it's too big and it's a religion, right? So for the most part, cults are smallish communities of people who have the same ideal that's normally driven by one or a small group of people who say what the ideals of the group is what do all cults have in common um there's normally an outfit there's normally some type of outfit that you all have to wear. I believe that most cults involved, all cults have in common, that there is some donatable amount of money or time that you have to give

to keep the cult running. Okay. What do people and cults look for when recruiting new members? The disillusioned. That's what you've got to look for. You've got to look for the people who members? The disillusioned. That's what you got to look for. You got to look for the people who are just not finding their way in the world that need a little bit of help. And maybe their potential isn't fully formed,

but with the help of the cult, their potential will reach its destiny. Okay. What is the difference between do and undo influence? Do and undo influence. Do influence is when you put into theue influence, uh, do influence is, um, when they, when you put into the cult and you're told what to do and undo is when they send people into, to, uh, what's that word? Deprogram you out of the cult. Um, I cut my tongue. I think that's why I'm never going to be able to say S's again. So are all cults religious? cults religious yeah well see that's a tricky question

because not not all cults may be um religious in the sense that uh they believe in a statue or a god or something like that which many cults do many cults are just um side projects of bigger religions where they go we like this, but we think the rules should be this much different. But they don't all have religion. Some of them are just what they call self-motivation or self-improving cults where they say, if you do A, B, and C, then your life will be better. But it is religious in the sense that there's normally a leader that you have to sort of to his or her word like so the Bikram yoga guy he wasn't religious as such he was just about hot yoga and just touching up women who walk by you know he had his own yoga and hot chicks yeah yeah yeah

Bikram yoga wow you really have watched all the documentaries this podcast is much better when Jim doesn't know anything. When we're answering the questions, he goes, I know these, so I'm going to sit back and answer them. It's like not as funny. Yeah, this feels like the short answer to like a multiple choice question. I know. You're like really thorough. Yeah, when he knows something, he's going to let you know he knows it.

I'm not going to say I don't. Yeah. Yeah, I've got to give it a go. I'm learning something new today. What to let you know he knows it. I'm not going to say I don't. Yeah. Yeah, I've got to give it a go. I'm learning something new today. Keep them coming. What does the acronym CULT stand for? I just made that up. It's not a real question.

I was about to be like Amanda. I was looking through the outline. I was like, where do I write the notes? See you last Tuesday. I was about to be like, wow, we've been doing this for like over a year. It's not an acronym. I'm going to jump ahead because we can talk about all this, but what is love bombing aforementioned and how

does it relate to cults? I don't know what love bombing is. You don't know something? I've never heard of the term love bombing. Really? I've never heard of it either. Wow. Well, that's lucky actually because I was recently love bombed.

It's not fun. I've been there. I worry that when I hear the answer, I may be a love-bomber myself. What do you think it is? Why don't you take a guess? Can I send in too many texts to someone who doesn't want them? No, no. Take a guess. That's a funny guess.

Are men or women more likely to join a cult? Ooh. I would say that men are slightly, slightly more. I feel like it's, okay, I feel like if you're in a relationship, the man joins the cult and the wife comes along with the kids and goes, this is what we're doing now. So I think it would be more even than you think. I think men are definitely more likely to be cult leaders.

I've always thought about myself like, you know, I thought, no, I think that I'd be close, but I'm just not likable enough. Like you have to admire a cult leader. I can't get the fucking guy who built my house to come over and do repairs. And I'm as charming as fuck and the house is under warranty. And there's money involved.

And I'm meant to be paying him. And when you're paying him, he's not paying you. Yeah, he won't come in and bloody do it. He'll just tell me to fuck off and not show up. So I think I would be, I'm too lazy to be a cult leader, really. I don't think I'm charming enough to be a cult leader. So you've got to give it up for the cult leaders. Yeah, it requires being very social and you don't like being.

I'm definitely manipulative enough. And juggling like different relationships at the same time. Like unique and making everyone feel special. Oh, it's so time consuming. Exactly. You have to kiss everyone on the lips. I will say this for cult leaders though. It's like who are we to say that they're not right?

Like I don't believe they're right. I think all religion's bullshit. But David Koresh said that he was the son of God. And what did we do? We fucking crucified the cunt and killed him the same way we did Jesus. That's so true. Will he come back to life? Well, he's coming back someday.

I don't know. But if anyone says they're God, we kill them. That's always going to happen eventually. You know what I mean? So it's like we say that Jesus is coming back. And then as soon as someone says he's the reincarnation of Jesus, we're unhappy about the bloody thing. So I know, I know. Well, there's that quote, you almost said it, but some people say cult plus time equals religion. And then other people say a cult is a group where the leader claims to talk to God, a religion is where that dude is dead. Right.

That's perfect. What's the best way to evaluate the validity of a new group you are considering joining? Well, you'd have to look at the other members and see if they're fucking nuts or not. See what people have given up to be in the group. See what the results of the group are. Check if they're fucking kids. That's always a big one. Check that. people have given up to be in the group, see what the results of the group are, check if they're fucking kids.

That's always a big one. Check that. And if you find that out, stay away from that particular cult. Oh, they're fucking kids. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. They are kids. Oh, my God.

Those fucking kids over there. Buddy, get your tennis ball out of me yard. We each interpreted that phrase differently because i was thinking check to see if they're fucking kids of the cult leader because you know like the fundamentalist mormons all the rephrase it i was imagining a leader with three kids in the cult if there is that's not a good cult. Yeah. But also, check if, also the outfits. Like all those people that had to dress in orange for that lady who, the Indian fella used to drive all the fucking, the Rolls Royces.

The Rajni. Yeah, Rajni. Yeah, that fella. Is orange your colour? Yeah, find out. Orange used to be my favourite colour, so is that a red flag? No, but would you wear it every day? yeah there you go you know so it's not a common favorite color yeah as an adult especially i feel like he just having a favorite color as an adult

yellow yellow mine's yellow too mine's yellow too and my middle name's Amanda. Soul sisters. Okay. Should we start a cult? I like red and black. I'm like a trashy groupie from Guns N' Roses days. I'm going to ask you a few more questions. We'll get to all of them, but Jim seems to know a lot about this so we can get more into a conversation. But let's – a couple more questions. What happens when you decide to leave a cult? Not easy.

I won't say that for all cults. maybe some of them have a come and go but for the most part if you leave a cult they're going to be worried about how you are going to to uh portray the cult when you are interviewed most people who are leaving the cult probably have some bad words to say about the cult there's not many people who leave a cult like i'm not going to say anything i just this is not for. So I imagine you get hounded from other cult members. And then the problem happens is every single time these people who leave the cult, all the rest of the cult members don't talk to them. These people feel very alone because that's been their entire community. That's all their friends, all their family,

and now they're on their own in the world. What was wrong with that answer? Come on. just give him some quick answers and we'll get to it all right what oh no it's great no don't worry about it this is what i do this is their cult it's their cult is fight club and they just argue with each other what is it called what is it called when the loved ones of a cult member arranged to have that person kidnapped away from the cult and retrained for cult free life reprogramming okay all right how about this let's just what is the name what is the name of the cult member arranged to have that person kidnapped away from the cult and retrained for cult free life. Reprogramming. Okay. Alright, how about this?

What is the name of the cult that believes humans were created by aliens called Elohim? I don't know how to say that. That's Scientology. Who pretended to be angels when they appeared in the past? I believe that's Scientology. Okay. What was the People's Temple Massacre? How many people died? Was that Jonestown?

It's Jonestown. That'll be Jim Jones, and he made everyone drink the Kool-Aid. What phrase did Charles Manson use? I shouldn't laugh at that. That's not funny. It wasn't Kool-Aid. It was home brand Kool-Aid, and Kool-Aid are very upset about that because it wasn't their brand of Kool-Aid.

That's right. It was flavoring. It was flavoring. It was flavoring. And I think if it's going to be your last drink, come on, splash out a bit, Jase. Yeah. It's my brand name. It's my brand name.

It's my brand name, Kool-Aid. Oh, and it was grape, and it was grape, which is the worst flavor. Yeah, that's offensive. Yeah, yeah. That's medicine flavor. I like grape. Oh. Oh.

I want to say about 600 and something. Isn't that ballpark? I've seen the pictures of all the people dying, and then the people got shot in the runway, and then Jim Jones, he just fucking shot himself in the end. He didn't drink the Kool-Aid. What phrase did Charles Manton use to describe the apocalyptic race war he foresaw?

Helter Skelter from the Beatles song, which is about the Helter Skelter. Look how happy Amanda is You're so knowledgeable, Amanda's like smiling ear to ear Held to Skelter is actually just a song about a slippery dip, a slide at the carnival, one of those big circular ones with the flag on the top which is very British, they would have at carnivals

because when you get to the bottom, you go back to the top then you ride on your floor and you go for a slide then you do it again, it's all about just going on a slippery dip, man What notable footwear were the heavens heavens gates cultists all wearing when they were killed themselves boots what okay two more questions what did rajneesh purim the rajneesh purim cult do in Oregon in 1985. That was the one in Oregon. That is the guy in the orange with the orange and the,

is he the dude with the, yeah, he's the dude with the Rolls Royces. They all took up guns to defend themselves, if I remember rightly, and they trained up. And I don't remember what the last thing was. I've seen that documentary. My wife does a killer impersonation of that Indian lady off the show. She is Indian. My wife is Indian.

She can do the voice and it's not upsetting to anybody. She can do that lady spot on. If they ever do a movie, they cast my wife. She's got that down pat. That's hilarious. They probably will do a movie. Yeah. Okay, last question.

Is Scientology a cult? I don't believe that Scientology is any longer a cult. I believe it's too big and has now become a religion. It started off as a cult, but it's served its time. And I'll tell you why it's not a cult. Because tax-free. They got tax-free exemption. What have they got on you?

I'll tell you. I'll tell you this much about Scientology, right? I've been in Hollywood now for 13 years. I've had TV shows. I've been in a couple of movies. I've done stand-up specials, all that jazz. They haven't fucking approached me once. What? What's wrong with me?

I want to just turn them down or just shut. I did go in for a personality test when I was living in Perth, when I was at university. Me too. I went in for a personality test too. I had the afternoon off. I thought I wasn't brainwashable. So I thought I'll give this a go. And literally they give you these tests, very simple questions, blue or red or blue, right? You answer these silly questions, right? You tick a few boxes and lots of stuff. They talk to you a bit. And then the girl looked at the paper like this and went, and then she got a bit flustered.

And then she left the room and she came back in. She goes, I'm just waiting for my superior to come in. Something's going on here. And then this bloke walks in and he's just like, I'll take it over from here. And he's like, you might be the smartest person that's ever lived the problem is that your intelligence is untapped and with the help of scientology you may be the greatest person on earth and i was like i was like my mom was right

you feel about scientology the way I feel about when girls complain about guys in their DMs. I'm like, well, they're not in my DMs. Wait, what guys? Yeah, they're so annoying. Yeah, we all have this problem. Yeah, yeah, yeah. People slip into their DMs.

I hear married guys, as soon as they get married, women always hit on you as soon as they see the ring. Not in my experience. Exactly. Well, I did a personality test. I told you they told me I was a piece of shit. I don't know what that means. Yeah, they told me I had all these deficits. They were like, you're so

uptight. That's just a regular bombing. Okay. Each one of them has an office for L. Ron Hubbard for if he comes back ready to go and

what in the Perth one? in Perth, Australia the most isolated city in the world when L. Ron Hubbard comes back that's the first stop on his fucking campaign or that if he comes back he's gonna wanna go sit in an office

yeah first thing I gotta do go back to work maybe he likes quokkas oh yeah I'm thinking about that and do they ever find he's going to want to go sit in an office. Yeah. Go back to work. Maybe he likes quokkas. I'm thinking about that. And did they ever find, what's his name? Who's the guy from,

McSavage? McSavage, you took over from Scientology. He's the guy. Oh, David Miscavige. Miscavige, right? And his wife's gone missing. I like the remix of his name. Yeah, Mick Savage.

It's a Big Mac, but it has spicy chicken. All right, so Issa and Amanda, how did Jim do? Zero through ten, ten's the best on his knowledge of cults. Honestly, I would give him a nine. Well above average. Well above average. Born in cults, Jim. And if you want to learn more about cults, join my little group that we meet on Tuesdays as a pamphlet.

We all wear orange to wear orange. Small amount of money. April 18th is our special day. All you have to do is give me your social security number. How do you do on confidence, girl? I'm going to give you, I think you are the smartest, most talented, most capable man in the world.

I am going to love bomb the shit out of you here and I'm going to give you a 10. All right. It's 19. Give me a negative 30. So all I missed was Ugg boots and love bombing, right? So that's a nine. That's pretty solid.

No, no. There were a couple other errors. I believe that other one. Yeah, there was a couple. I don't know what the answer is really. The truth prevails. But you did really well this and porn

these seems to be your two specialties you got a perfect score on the porn episode oh wow that's your personality test that these are the results you're gonna

documentaries and porn fill up my afternoon have you seen the documentary about porn is unscripted OnlyFans I have seen the documentary about OnlyFans

yeah yeah that's like your two... I watch about three documentaries a week. So I just, if a new documentary comes out, I'm pretty dyslexic, so when I read, things don't come into my head, but if I watch documentaries, I'll remember it. I'm a documentary whore too.

Okay, so what is the, like, is there an actual definition of a cult? Like Jim said, normally a new religion that hasn't found its way to big masses. But is there? Yeah. Amanda is the linguist here. So it's really tricky.

I mean, I talk to a lot of academics for my books, sociologists, psychologists, linguists, and everybody had a slightly different take. It's one of those words that's so context dependent and so judgment loaded and so subjective that it can apply to anything from like Jonestown to SoulCycle, Glossier, Trader Joe's, whatever. So, I mean, yeah, everyone had a slightly different definition. So there, there kind of really isn't one. Okay. So what do they have in common then? That was a question we asked. Is there like some sort of through lines like that?

So just quickly, where does the word come from? like that so just quickly where does the word come from the occult or where does the word come from so the word okay so the earliest iterations of the word um had a really innocent meaning they just meant homage paid to divinity or offerings made to win over the gods and then the word by like the 1800s came to mean a sort of churchly classification alongside religion or sect, no negative connotations. So it wasn't until kind of the mid century when all these alternative religions from Jews for Jesus to Scientology kind of freaked out old school conservatives and Christians. Then cult came to be associated with like quacks and con artists. Then once the Jonestown massacre happened and then the Manson family murders in 69, then cults were really put on the map

as something that everyone should know and that everyone should fear. So Jews for Jesus was a cult? I don't know what it is. Well, maybe identify as one. I think it might be in a cult. I donated to Cars for Kids. I don I might be in a cult. I donated to Cars for Kids. I don't know where the money's gone and now they want my property. Cars for Kids is like, kids don't even drive. I'm going to now say for Cars for Kids, I think it's completely not a bullshit.

Where's the fucking money? Anytime that someone has a charity. Wait, that's a real thing? Yeah. Cars for Kids? You can donate your cars for kids. 1-877-CARS-FOR-KIDS In the past few weeks I've been nannying for my nephews and I've taught them

the Cars for Kids jingle, Jacob and Ronnie and the AIS jingles and so when I drive them around they roll down the window and scream out the jingles at people so they're I thought Jacob and Ronnie called Jacob and Ronnie called Jacob and Ronnie. Called Jacob.

Called Jacob. Yep. I thought it was two blokes, Jacob and Ronnie. Yeah, my nephews did it first too. I've been correcting that for weeks. Yeah, no, the Cars for Kids... The Cars for Kids, donate your car, we'll give you some money, and you'll get a tax deduction. And then at the end, they just slip

in, we take properties as well. Get the fuck out of here, Cars for Kids. And it's like, anytime a charity goes for kids, for the children, no, no, no. Even now we're getting a lot of charities come in and that are like, help the Ukraine. I've given money already to the Red Cross for the thing because the Red Cross, they've been fucking stable my whole life.

The Red Cross have been out there. I see them giving packages and shit and going into war zones. That's where I get my money. But I've been asked to do loads of charity gigs, and I'll do some of them. Help Ukraine. I just don't know how the money gets there. Yeah.

So many cults mask themselves as charities. I mean, QAnon rebranded as Save the Children. Yeah, that's why I think that just because Scientology is a 501c3 doesn't mean that it's not a cult. You know what I mean? That's just because they don't want to pay taxes. Look, I'm not a big fan. I'm an atheist. I don't believe in any religion. I just argue that Scientology

is as much a cult as Christianity or Judaism. Pretty much anything that we're all arguing. Anything that wants me to give my money is a cult. So the IRS cult. I'm just not interested. If I have to give you money, not interested. Capitalism.

Yeah. That's the libertarian vibe, right? Yeah. No rules. It says Cars for Kids with a K. Cars for Kids is a fundraising arm of the organization called Joy for Our Youth. And they apparently raise a lot of money, $24.6 million. Well, this is like 10 years ago. They did. So maybe even more, but you know how they, they say

that you donate your car and I guess they fix them up and sell them whatever. And then they use that money for, they say like youth camps for kids. And that might be where the money does go. But you know how they give you a vacation voucher. Apparently it's for like timeshares. It's like a timeshare scam. So they give you like a vacation voucher? Apparently it's for timeshares. It's like a timeshare scam. They give you a vacation voucher and then you're at a timeshare thing and you're like, shit. I just know that there's a lot of moms and dads out there, single

parents who don't have cars. Give them the car. Why are they selling the car to send the kid to camp? I want cars for parents who have kids. It's 1-877-CARS-FOR-KIDS. That's too long for a phone number.

K-A-R-S-CARS-FOR-KIDS. And it's Regis. Regis does the adverts. Is it Regis? Not adding up. Isn't Regis dead? He does the thing. I think it's Regis. I think it's Regis.

I think it's Regis. Regis from Regis and Kelly. Yeah, Regis and Kelly. He goes, cars for kids. It's cars with a K. Oh, did he start it? Maybe he just has a huge garage. No, he's just a spokesperson.

Imagine if Jay Leno was running cars for kids. Just donate some of yours, Jay. You have 300. Or he has more than that. Cars and 300. Where do you have more of that? Cars and kids. You don't have any kids? Yes, I'm illegitimate. What is the difference between do and undo influence?

Jen said do you put into the cult? Undo, they send people into. I really like that definition. I don't know if it's accurate, though. Yeah, I don't really know quite what that question is asking. I mean, undo influence is obviously like coercion um what is is due influence to have like a healthy effect on someone i don't know or a natural like like coercion by accident maybe we don't know about that the way i yeah so we can also cut this question just a tip for the podcast.

When you write a question, have an answer for it yourself. I do. I do. So I wrote this question specifically because you guys filled in for us. Our other guests had a whole section about due influence and undue influence.

Who was your guest? Can I ask? Dr. Yania Lalik. Oh, yeah. Yania Lalik. But duress is sometimes confused with undue influence. Undue influence is also a defense to a contract in a situation that affects mutual assent. So it's basically taking advantage of another person through a position of trust or something like that.

Right. Okay. So here's the thing. And this speaks to the subjectivity of the word cult. There are so many cult scholars who've each come up with their own system to describe these matters. How can you determine if something is a cult? Some people will have a rubric that looks like this. Some people will have a list of terminology. Let's go back a second. What's a rubric? It's a director. Outline.

You don't know? You know, like a key. A code. A code area that explains the key. A code. A code area that explains the definition. Pie chart. No, that's not true. You know when you would be in school and there were like an A plus paper has these qualities. Never have one.

A B paper has these. A D paper has these qualities. They didn't even mark them that way in Australia, but I still got a few Ds. The point is that every cult expert has a slightly different way of talking about these things. You guys obviously know a lot more about cults than I do, and you've talked about them at more length. Do they always, because it feels like the cult leaders

sometimes don't always start out as evil they get sort of corrupted by their own power so like even jim jones in the early days it was the most inclusive church in san francisco it had black people and white people and old people and people who felt like they were on the outskirts of society and all that type of stuff and they all joined together in harmony and then he just all started going bring that person to the front of the stage and just whip that bitch. Right. And then they started like caning people in front of things and he was giggling. And I don't think it started that way. No, it didn't. I mean, we think of these cult leaders as these genius, evil masterminds, but really they're just opportunists who have

a problem stopping themselves before they exert too much power. But you're right. Jim Jones started as an integrationist pastor in Indianapolis. And he had like, you know, adopted children who were, you know, like every color of the rainbow. I actually hate when people say that. Take that out. I actually know I say that because he called it the rainbow family. He was like, I have a rainbow family. I walk the walk.

I talk the talk. Like I'm doing social justice, anti-racism. He was inclusive, man. He wasn't inclusive. And he was like i have a rainbow family i walk the walk i talk the talk like i'm doing social justice anti-racism he was inclusive man he wasn't inclusive and he was but then he just wasn't able to stop himself before it got too far yeah i feel like it gets to this point where like you don't have checks and balances so like you were saying there is one leader and like i feel like they have to be personable with so many different people that at one point they start to believe their own bullshit just because they're so exhausted of like carrying this whole group of people when you think about anybody who is like a con artist or something like that when we watch it from the outside we're looking at the end result which is this is this cult and this terrible thing

happened and we're looking at all the red flags when they're already there but everything is so incremental where it's like if i can push someone just a little bit further to do, you remember, um, to begin with, Darren Brown's sacrifice. It's yeah. It's like one of those things where it's like, can I ask somebody to do a little bit more, a little bit more? And then eventually it snowballs into this big thing, but it doesn't start that way. And so something that Isa and I have talked about on our podcast is like, if you have trouble imagining how it could happen to you, imagine being in a toxic relationship, a cult of one, you know, it starts out great. Like you're so in love. Yeah. There are red flags,

but it feels good. And then 10 years later, it's like, everyone's been in a toxic relationship. I've been in where you're like, I have to please this person. I have to make sure their acceptance means so much to you that you sort of lose yourself. And then afterwards when you get out of the relationship, you're like, I have to please this person. I have to make sure. Their acceptance means so much to you that you sort of lose yourself. And then afterwards, when you get out of the relationship, you step back. A year later, you're like, what the fuck was all that about? And then you're mad at yourself.

You're embarrassed. I must have been fucking lonely. And a big part of why you don't leave is because you are embarrassed. And I feel like that's similar to relationships and cults. You're like, oh, shit, I'm in too deep. Was the Nazis a cult? Yeah, you're in too deep. The Nazis Nazis a cult? Yeah, you're in too deep. The Nazis had to be a cult, but they really did well, didn't they?

They were a cult, but they were also under a country. When I say did well, I'm saying they got a lot of subscribers. I'm not saying they did good things. Let me be very clear about that. I feel like they forced people to become, like Germany was a country, so they forced people to become, like, you know, like Germany was like a country so they forced people to join. But did they follow the ethos of

one leader, outfits, they did all that, a symbol, you know, they did all the things, a common enemy, you know, that's cult stuff, isn't it? Yeah, for sure. Oh, definitely. This stuff can be applied to politics, Silicon Valley, definitely. It's funny, when you were just saying that, yeah for sure oh definitely this stuff can be applied to politics silicon valley definitely it's funny when you were just saying that i was like we did an episode where we were saying this

but that was terrorism that episode and it was like some of the same yeah some of the same uh there was we did a podcast with a guy that specialized in people recruiting for terrorist organizations and they that was the common enemy was in there and then the shared yeah it was all and they have i feel like cults and like terrorism are similar in that like you're going to people who are lost and don't know what to do with their lives and are looking for purpose and they're like oh i'll give you if ever there was a cult is the rebels in star wars if you got like a wizard like character with this thing let's go blow up that building over there this death star and all that stuff they were terrorists luke skywalker was a terrorist oh fighting the man yeah it's funny like i i was

recording a piece a few months ago totally i was reporting this piece a few months ago where um i was speaking to a woman who specializes in like counter strategies for anti-vax cults she's like coming up with ways to talk to people in q anon who believe in anti-vax cults. She's like coming up with ways to talk to people in QAnon who believe in anti-vax ideas to like bridge the divides. But her degree is in terrorism studies. It's just that that type of terrorism is digital disinformation. Yeah. In your opinion, are all cults bad?

Are there some cults out there that are just like they're helping out? The community likes them. They can't all be about hate and like having seven wives and all that stuff. No. Because some of them start off as love and there are some good ones. That's why we have the three categories. Like I think there's a bunch of live your life level cults. Like unfortunately, please don't judge me,

but I do go to SoulCycle sometimes. Leave. I don't even know what that is. I know you don't know me very well, but to look at me, I don't know what SoulCycle is. It's the biking thing. It's like the cycling class. It's the bikers.

Yeah. But I feel like that's kind of like a goodish cult because it like forces you to work out, you know, like I like it because you have to pay money and then you can't cancel the class after 5 p.m. the day before. And I I'm not going to lose 30 bucks. Right. So if I sign up, I'm going to show up. It probably matters how extreme the us versus them mentality is. It's like, you know, and it matters how hard it is to exit.

Yeah. What are the costs? We just did an episode on Disney adults and even though a lot of people have a lot of feelings about Disney adults, we think it's a live your life. Yeah. I really want a hat now that says cult leader. If anyone can make that for me, I get a lot

of hats. We'll get it on our merch store. Just one that says cult leader. Be a fun one to leave. You should start a cult first. Cult leader. Call one and then your number. It'd be a fun one to leave. You should start a cult first. Cult leader, call one, and then your number. Call Jacob and Ronnie. You kind of just touched on this, but what do people in cults look for when recruiting new members?

What did I say? Not you. I think Issa did. Well, yeah. Okay, so the stereotype is that cults want people who are desperate, really gullible, intellectually deficient because they'll be easier to manipulate. But why would a cult want someone who's liable to break down quickly? They want people who have community connections and privilege and influence.

Right. They want people who are service oriented and bright, who will stick it out even when things invariably turn sour so many of the cult survivors survivors of jonestown heaven's gate all of that that i spoke to for the book really suffered from like too much idealism if anything else yeah did you guys watch uh john wilson's how to tv show on hbo it's fantastic yeah fantastic episode on cults he did an episode on acapella groups oh we're gonna do an episode on acapella groups. Oh, we're going to do an episode on acapella groups. He talked about when Nexum tried to sign him up for things because acapella

groups, they decided were a very easy group to persuade. They were a group that really needed friends. Yeah. Very suggestible bunch. So the Nexum guy, he actually had an acapella group concert

where all the best acapella groups came in and they all sang all their different things. And the girl from Smallville was hosting the whole thing. And then at the end, they were all asked to join Nexum. So that's how you get people, acapella groups. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. I feel like it's not necessarily like all people who are recruited for cults have the same qualities. I feel like it's where they are in their life.

You know, it's like you're finding them at a place where like they just like are seeking a little bit more community. And archipelago groups are like so optimistic because they're like happy and singing and jazz and blah, blah, blah. Me and my son have started watching Domino Masters, which we like Lego Masters.

Now we're at Domino Masters. Domino's falling down. Oh, yeah. Very satisfying to watch the last Domino. TV shows these days are really getting, thinking outside the box. Very satisfying. But the people there, these are real nerds, right? Not like people go, I'm a nerd because you like cartoons or some shit.

No, no. These are real fucking tucking their shirt into their thing yeah and so so uh so anyway so there's there's i think 12 groups of three and they keep on talking about oh such and such is a big deal in the domino community this person's in the domino community and my son just couldn't get over he goes there's a domino community and my my son, he's nine years old, he turns to me, he just said, Dad, who are these people? He goes, you could lock me for the rest of my life in a warehouse and give me boxes and boxes of dominoes and I wouldn't do anything.

I'd just pick up a stick and act like it's a sword. He said that? Oh my god. That means he's got the lazy gene that I have. That reminds me so much. Did you watch the documentary? There are a couple on

competitive yo-yoing and competitive Rubik's cubing. The competitive Rubik's cubing, Speedcubers was a great documentary. That relationship between that guy and that autistic kid made me bawl my eyes out. It was one of those beautiful things you'll ever see on film. That Rubik's cube really helped that kid.

He was so autistic that he could keep doing it. And then he had a moment where he knew to mimic that other guy in a social setting. It was the first time. Doctor said he never could. That was a beautiful documentary. I haven't seen it, but I do feel like crying tonight. Oh, shut up. An autistic person will get me every time.

Yeah, yeah. They will. Me too. Love on the Spectrum. Just an autistic person. Yeah. Just like season on the street. Here's a documentary about an autistic bloke killing a cat.

Oh, you've got me again, Netflix. We had the experts from Love on the Spectrum on for an episode on autism. They were great. We had the doctor and the director on, yeah. Oh, my God. I love that show. Have you seen the show Is It Cake? I watched Is It Cake yesterday.

It makes me want to kill myself. They really, they really, it's a good show. Is it good? I haven't seen it. I just saw the title. Wait, wait, They really, it's a good show. Is it good? I haven't seen it. I just saw the title. Wait, wait, wait. Is it cake or not cake? Look, look, I'll tell you what it is.

It's got, what's his name from SNL? Mikey Day. Mikey Day. He's a likable fella. And he brings on three comedians or three sort of panelists, and they have all the chefs, and then they go, it's a fast food. The first episode is fast food, right? These people are cake artists, right? And they go, you's a fast food. The first episode is fast food, right? These people are cake artists, right?

And they go, you've got to remake a hamburger. So they put up six different hamburgers. They're all the same, different variants of hamburgers. And then they've got to guess which one's cake. Because there's a TikTok trend that makes cake that looks like real objects. Well, this has been around forever. This was a Japanese game show called Candy or Not. Oh, of course it was stolen. This was a Japanese game show called Candy or Not.

Of course it was stolen. This one's about cake. And it starts and he cuts into it. It's very satisfying when the knife goes through and you go, that's cake or not. So satisfying. That's so nice. There was a guy who made tacos and he fooled him. Yeah.

Tacos? Spoiler alert. He fucking cheated because he got his gummy bear toppings that he was using for- Oh, and they were actual gummy bears. No, he used them for the tomatoes and the lettuce and all that type of stuff. And then he put them on one of the other tacos.

So everyone says, that's cake. I think that's cheating, but no one pulled him up on it. That's cheating. I wish you were there that day. You should write an email. What? What? I've got a question.

You don't know me very well. What would have happened. You should write an email. What? What? I've got a question. You're not going to be very willing. I'll write that email. Jack should write the email. What are some different types of cults? Huh? Back to cults. All right.

Like, we didn't ask this question, but Jim asks, are all cults religious? And then maybe we can, like, what are different types of cults? Maybe that kind of works with each other. I think you asked me if they were religious. I did, and you said not all of them are religious. No, not all, not all, not all.

But you also said that once a cult is around long enough to become a religion, you don't think it's a cult anymore? No, I believe it's still a cult in the sense that I believe that all religions are a cult. Okay, I agree. But if we got people who are religious, don't want to call their religion a cult. So we'll put them in different brackets. Yeah. A religion that's been around forever. But if we got people who are religious, don't want to call their religion a cult. So there's,

we'll put them in different brackets. Yeah. A religion that's been around forever. The funny thing is that no, everybody's so happy to throw around the term cult until you talk about a group that they belong to. That's why it's like we have the categories because I feel like cult has had such a negative connotation,

but like if standup comedy is a cult, then like I'm in a cult and I kind of like it. Standup comedy is a very clicky community of people. And once you're in it, you do sort of feel it. I've been trying to get out of it for years. But it does feel like your whole world. It feels like this community of people is everything.

And I'm sure that happens with a lot of occupations, but I sometimes have to remind myself that there is more to life than stand-up comedy. Yeah. Well, it is. I mean, if we want to make some analogy, there are certain – None of it's good. But there are certain comedians that, like, are cult-like

and then if somebody says something negative about them, then people will – Yeah. Yeah, there's definitely comedians that we all improv go, you don't say anything because if you say anything, you go, blah, blah, blah, the show sucks and everyone else is saying it's really good yeah and they're in interviews it's really good and then in secret that's interesting because somebody had posted something the other day about uh kanye's documentary and about how jay-z and the other guy screwed him or

whatever and i was like well he deserves to be screwed he's a piece of shit and she's like that's not what this post is about i'm like well he physically abused my brother's ex-fiance while they were on set uh on a music video and her job was to go get him from his dressing room and he shoved her by her neck into the wall and literally just mentioning that he did this holy fuck did people come after me yeah why do you why don't you want to see him shine blah blah i'm like i think physical abuse is fucking bad yeah that's why like we did an episode on the cult of celebrity stands as like a broader thing and it's like people who are like so obsessed with celebrities and then there's celebrities that like indulge in that and i feel like kanye

loki indulges in that sometimes but then there there's celebrities that kind of try to remain separate from their stanship. Do you think there's cult? To be fair, though, I know about that incident, and he was just dancing, and he was in his groove, and then your fiancée, whoever that was again, got in the way, and then, yeah, not your fiancée, somebody was there. That person, yeah.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Kanye West looks like he's had his molars taken out. Just the sign about that man's face. He's got the mumps all the time. I always say he's a great producer. That's all. Music. I don't know.

I'll say this. Your shoes suck. They're fucking stupid looking too wide. Get yourself a pair of Allbirds. Oh, I've never had Allbirds, but my sister swears by them. We swear by them. We're in the cult of Allbirds. We swear by the Allbirds. Oh, I've never had Allbirds, but my sister swears by them. We swear by the cult of Allbirds. We swear by the Allbirds, man. They've sent me another pair.

I'm Allbirding up. This is the first time I've ever won them today. It's weird. Have you ever been wearing your Allbirds and written a bird scooter? No, I've never written

a bird scooter. That's Allbirds. That's Allbirds. That is Allbirds. I've talked about women and called them birds. That is all birds. I've talked about women and called them birds whilst wearing the old birds. Look at that bird over there wearing the old birds. And there was a bird flying over the top.

There's a lot of birds. Different types of cults. So there's a religious, I don't know. I just have a couple of examples of like political, I guess. There's some political cult because you're saying QAnon would be like a political cult, I guess. You could even say the MAGA movement was a bit cultish oh yeah for sure

but I liked your point about how even if a cult isn't worshipping a god or a spiritual idol it's still religious in nature because of the fanaticism you know as hard as it is to define a cult scholars have been arguing for even longer

about how hard it is to define a religion what is a arguing for even longer about how hard it is to define a religion. What is a religion in the first place? Does a God have to be involved? Not always. So religions can be secular. And you can get to the stage where you're a person who speaks out about cults or you're one of these sort of intellectuals like a Jordan Peterson type and I'm not bagging on Jordan or anything.

But then your followers become cultish. Now, I did so much. I don't really do it anymore, but I'm still an atheist. I haven't changed my views, but I did so much atheist material early on in my career that the first ever sort of high paid gigs I ever got was playing atheist conventions. Which is very ironic. I don't know.

Isn't that funny? And so I'd be doing these places and fuck me. So we'd have people like Sam Harris on talking. We've had Richard Dawkins on this podcast. I'm a big fan of Richard Dawkins. We'd have all these different people. But fuck me if atheists don't half want to look like God. Half of these fucking atheists had big beards and robes.

Like there is no God. It's so true. It's so true. It reminds me of like when a comedian is like, oh, I don't like that comedian. It's like, cause you want to be that comedian. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They become, it became super culty.

And the people who started wearing these little red A, atheist badges on their things. And then I'm like, I got into Atheism because that's what I believe, but also because I like my Sundays. I don't want to fucking wake up. And now I have to wake up to talk about nothing? Yeah, totally. I think it just goes to show that whether you're worshipping

at the altar of nothing or of Jesus, everybody just wants to belong. Everybody just wants something to get up and do. Everybody needs a community, right? And that's where TikTok comes in. My brother joined Landmark, which is like a self-help type of thing, which I've always viewed as a cult. And my old roommate, her family was in Landmark as well. And we were taking an Uber, a pretty long Uber, it's like an hour. And we were talking about that. And I was like, listen,

I don't care if people want to do Landmark, but like, I don't want to get recruited. Like, I think it's pretty culty, blah, blah, blah, whatever. Two o'clock in the morning, I get a text from the Uber driver. And it was something where I had to click on the text and it opened up into my notes because that's how long the message was and he's like you're a fucking terrible person like you need Landmark more than anybody and all I was saying was like I wouldn't want to join it

because I don't want to pay $1500 for somebody to like break me down and build me back up again. Landmark is 100% a cult. Did you know that um for a while sponsor this podcast and we want to say how proud we are it's a it's a self-help thing so you pay like 1500 for a weekend of seminars yeah and so like my brother my brother invited me one time he's like hey would you just come to my graduation thing and I was like okay fine but then I get there and they're doing like a first round of you know what the next session would be and I was a

psychology major so like everything they're doing I'm like I know exactly what they're doing like they are specifically trying to tear people down tell them that they need to grow and then they have this revelation in front of a crowd of people and people applaud for them and it's I was so fucking pissed I was so mad that I got brought there and then they have this revelation in front of a crowd of people and people applaud for them and it's I was so fucking pissed I was so mad that I got brought there and then they're like we have discounts for people who want to sign up for the next seminar since you're here and I was like fuck you guys

I mean what's the difference between this and the Scientology story is AA a cult and all the other we're going to do an episode on it on the podcast. AA was like the inspiration for my entire book because...

Because you were drunk the whole time you wrote it. Yeah. No, it's because we want to talk about groups that are not only... Definitely. But we want to talk about cults not only as these destructive groups, but also as groups that can offer something good. And I was with my best friend who had just started to go to aa and she was using all of their

culty terminology like halting and you know i caught a resentment and all the all the culty jargon that aa uses and i was like i have got to write a book about the language of cults yeah does anyone ever become a cult jargon i go to gamblers We have no jargon But it's very small, it's not as big as alcoholics Why am I fucking whistling constantly? That's why I actually did hear He didn't pay off a gambling debt I've gone to like

1A meeting with a friend just to bring them there Because I said I can sit in here with you But I didn't know there was all this different jargon and stuff like that. Oh my God. It's so, it's so catchy and it really does bring them together. It helps people's lives. So that was interesting. So, um, I'm sorry, were you saying something Jim or? Um, does anyone ever become a cult leader by accident? Cause you know what I mean?

Like you just start off with a couple of friends and they're all in. Oh, I've got some ideas. Bring a couple of more friends. And then before you know it, go, fuck, I'm a cult leader. Yeah. The question is what they do next, you know? I feel like I could run a cult, but it wouldn't be the best group. You wouldn't have some real highbrow people in there.

They'd just be some morons. Well, I mean, it could be argued. You have a lot of fans. You do big venues and stuff. I feel like most celebs could probably start a cult. I find it funny because I had this gun control routine that went well and I had a couple of atheist bits and all that type of stuff.

And then people write to me now, like I'm getting it right now. Jim, say something about the Ukraine. Yes, yes. My silence is because I'm with Russia. My silence is because I know it won't make a fucking difference. I've donated some money to the Red Cross. That's all I can really do. I'm not going to put a filter over my fucking photo of the Ukraine

just to show my support. Yeah. Well, that's the thing. I think cult leaders emerge accidentally on social media because they are the people who are willing to voice a confident opinion about everything from vaccinations to war, to social justice,

to whatever. And people want a leader. Like people want an identity template. People want rhetoric. And so the people who are willing to come forth as an expert on everything can accidentally fall into that. I'm going to say I'm a big fan of Tim Dillon. I liked Tim Dillon.

I like him as a guy. I like his comedy. I like that. I don't always agree with him, but I like he goes out there and says what he thinks. But Tim could. Oh, yeah. Tim could definitely. Really?

You started a holiday. I started a holiday. That's still what's Jared Leto doing. What is he doing? He's got a cult. Yeah. What is that thing he's doing? He's like wearing a gown. I don't know. It's all women

though, it seems like, right? I don't know. I definitely couldn't run out of them. I couldn't recruit enough women. I couldn't recruit women to go on a date with me. Sam, let's start a group. Were you saying something, Kelly? I just said I have it on good authority that he's a terrible fucking person.

Same. Same. Sorry, go ahead. I was just going to say that I feel like a lot of people these days are like easily following groups or joining cults because like we live in such chaotic times that people are like,

I don't even want to think for myself. So that's why people are even asking you to speak on the Ukraine situation because they're like, I don't want to speak on the Ukraine situation, but I want to repost what you say. You know what I mean? Have we noticed that Netflix yesterday put up Slilinski's sitcom? With subtitles, yeah. That one that he had before.

They've bought it. Netflix have just been like, go buy that sitcom, will you? Like before the war, they weren't buying Ukrainian sitcoms. They're trying to distract us from the real issues, which is raising their rates. I watched. Hey, hey, we don't talk bad about Netflix in this house. Oh, yeah, yeah, no. Netflix has given me a lot of specials.

I love Netflix. I'll pay it. Thank you for everything. I have my own account that I don't share with anyone. I've pay it. Thank you for everything. I have my own account. I don't share it with anyone. I've got four specials on Netflix, and they've never bloody given me a free account, and I'm happy to pay it.

You give good value for money. That's right. My sister-in-law works for them, so Netflix family. What is love bombing? Jim didn't know what that was. No, I know. It tells you you're awesome. Yeah.

I feel like I'm too recently triggered. Love bombing is when you systematically shower someone with devotion and attention as a to later trade for control yeah this happened to you well it didn't end up getting traded for anything but a broken heart just kidding but um no yeah i mean i think in my experience it's sometimes the person themselves like doesn't know they're doing it. It's like someone who like thinks they are ready for a relationship and like give you all of the signs

and like tell you exactly what they want and speak to you and communicate with you and like love you and like shower you with like compliments. And then all of a sudden, something switches internally within them. And then like the energy is off and they're like uh actually like this is not what i wanted like i don't know why you're here and i'm like well some people do have a pattern of love bombing everyone that they begin to date even if they

don't feel it or don't intend to pursue it like clayton off the bachelor this season exactly exactly exactly but in a but in a cult atmosphere there is the intention behind it like the scientology example where they shower you with praise you're a genius i've never met anyone like you so that they can manipulate it sounds like like being a cult leader would lend itself to people with borderline personality disorder right because those people are always like, I need you. You're the most special person. You're the most special. Don't come near me.

It's too much. And then you got to leave. And they're like, where are you going? And you feel pushed and pulled and this and that. So I feel like that's probably. I feel like that's what the guy in NXIVM did. I'm forgetting his name right now. Keith Raniere.

Keith Raniere. He would love to bomb everyone. There is something to be said. I don't think like, I don't know if there's data on this, but there has to be some type of correlation between like narcissism, personality disorder and co-leaders. Well, Keith would put on flyers that like, come and see Keith. Like even on this acapella thing,

he's one of the smartest people ever to be on this earth ever, ever, ever, ever, ever. And then, you know, then everyone's like, oh, I could never on a poster. Come and see Jim Jefferies. One of the smartest people on earth. We should try that. Yeah, see, maybe it'll work.

That'd actually be funny. There was a bloke. Who's that bloke? He was a magician, a gay fella. There was a documentary on him. He used to- Amazing Jonathan? No, no, no, no, no.

He stopped all the hoaxes. He was a guy. He had a to amazing jonathan no no no no he stopped all the hoaxes he was a he was a guy he had a beard and he'd offer a million dollars for anyone who anyone who could like he went against geller yeah um but he was basically he would unearth anybody who said like you could be a magician because he was a magician but anyone who said they were actually performing magic right he would like so there was like this bloke that had like, you know, these Bible pages with a very thin paper. Yeah. And this bloke would just like with his mind just make the page

just turn like this, right? And he was just pursing his lips and blowing ever so gently. And so he said it was real magic that he was doing it with his mind. And then this bloke just showed up and put some styrofoam on top of it and went, just do it now. Oh, I'm not feeling the magic right now. I can't do it. James Randi.

James Randi. And they did a great, it's a great documentary. And he kept closeted the whole time. He had a guy who became his boyfriend. Now, the guy became his boyfriend. They started, just to prove, they started that he was some spiritual, mythical being, and this is in the early 90s, and they made him tour Australia, and they used Australia

as the test thing, and he would go around, and they would sell vials of his blood, a drop in this potion of his blood that was magical. Very culty, and people were showing up like, this guy is the Svengali of everything, right? And he did it just to show how stupid they were. And he was just like, I don't know, like a Puerto Rican or something immigrant who what they did was they would check his pulse

and nurses would come up and they'd go, his pulse has stopped. And he would be like and breathe through it. And then they'd go, he could stop his blood flow and still be living. He was pretty amazing. Turns out how to do that trick is you put a ping pong ball in your armpit it just sort of cuts that vein off so for a while you can't feel the pop it's that simple a fucking trick and they had it on 60 minutes in australia and when they 60 minutes were reporting it like this is the real deal this is the thing and then randy went and said ah it's all bullshit just to prove

how honest liar yeah so he went through all those. Just to prove how honest liar. Yeah. So he went through all of those hoops to like show that like people. Yeah. He set up the whole business. He was a debunker. He set up the whole, he offers a million dollars to any. That's the guy who sticks to a bit. Yeah.

He offered a million dollars to any mystic who could actually foresee the future and actually tell something he proved that no one came forward. But yeah, see it an honest liar. If you're interested in this stuff a very good documentary it sounds awesome um okay so uh what happens when you leave a cult jim says it's not easy there you know get hounded isolated from your community is there a danger in leaving a cult there can it really depends right like if you leave QAnon, nothing, nothing happens. Maybe you won't have any friends to talk on Reddit to anymore. But if you leave Scientology, if you're really deep into the religion, you might have fears that it will be so energetically dangerous for you to get offloaded that you'll die within 12 days right so

um or like actual like physical dangers too that like they have like i think they have like things on you right yeah i imagine it's like when you try to cancel a gym membership and they send out the really good looking girl there's an episode of friends where chandler and ross and then they got the good looking girl to come out and then they're like I can't quit this gym membership. A lot of them make you produce some sort of like collateral right so it's like you know hey if you leave here I'm going to release all your

nude photos or whatever because that was NXIVM and absolutely and then right like you were talking about before all of your contacts all of your money all of your friends everyone who ever told you they loved you is now on the inside. Which is weird because NXIVM started just very innocently

as a rec volleyball league and then became a sex cult. Well, I'm just kidding. Peter Neri is a born and bred scammer. That dude was like a pyramid schemer before NXIVM, so he always had a plan. Alright, Joe Exotic, was that a cult? I feel like it was. It was pretty close. They weren't getting paid much. So he always had a plan. All right. Joe Exotic. Was that a cult?

I feel like it was. It was pretty close. They weren't getting paid much. They had sort of worked there. He had tattoos on his husband, the property of Joe Exotic. It was branding. Yeah. You know, so it feels a little bit culty. I feel like even when they have like collateral on you, like nudes or whatever, especially today and age, you know,

it's like no one cares. Like you can, with money or like nudes or whatever, you can like age, you know, it's like, no one cares. Like you can, with money or like nudes or whatever, you can like still like leave. But I think the thing that keeps people is the community is like really like losing your friends in your community. Cause then you're like, very often there's families involved and maybe the other parent doesn't want to leave and the stuff there's,

there's a lot of unhappy people in there. So what, what is the best way to evaluate the validity of a new group? Quote unquote, you're considering joining? Jim, that was the fucking kids thing. Look at other members and see if they're not, you know, orange or color, that kind of thing. Like, is there, I mean...

Are they asking for money, man? Yeah, how do you make sure you're not joining a cult? Or maybe it's too late if you're, you know... I would honestly consult the people who've left. I also would, like, try... I would try consult the people who've left. Yeah. I also would like try, I would try and sit down and like in today and age, it's like hard to do,

but think for yourself, like for a moment, you know what I mean? Like I always say like on the podcast, go to a public library and Google on that computer so that your algorithms don't feed into your answers. Like make sure that like, I was doing on Jack's computer.

How many cults you in now, Jack? About 50, I was doing on Jack's computer. How many culture in now? Jack? About 50. I've lost my house. Yeah. I think anything that requires you to spend, spend time with a specific group of people, like multiple times a week too.

It's like when they discourage you from having community outside of that community, I think that's super in that, in that respect, side of that community. I think that's super. Oh, of course. I mean, in that respect, if your membership requires you to distance yourself from any of every

other belief system, that's a massive red flag. And also, like, you have to have the opinion of your friends and family and the people who trust and love you most, unless those people are already in the group. Yeah. You need to be able to have outside opinions. Yeah. Right. Oh, pyramid schemes. That'd be cults, right?

Yeah. I think that's the only thing. That's one of our most popular episodes is the cult of multi-level marketing. I think Amway was the only one that I've ever been asked to join. No one's ever asked me to join. But then we go to younger things. Okay. The Boy Scouts, the Girl Guides, these cults.

This podcast. I think, I mean, I think, you know, we could do a whole episode on it but I would say really quickly it's probably watch your back what do you think Amanda? Watch your back level I would say. Especially I feel like anything that has to do with like people who are like under age like and they're joining these like groups already is really watch your back

because like kids are so impressionable that like it could affect the rest of their life so here's some quick questions we asked about specific cults. What is the name of the cult that believes humans were created by aliens called Elohim who pretend to be angels when they appeared in the past? Jim said Scientology, but no,

it's like, what is that called? Raelism or something? I forget. I don't know how to pronounce it. I don't know any of these. I wouldn't know. Amanda's the,

Amanda's the expert. Cause what is Scientology's a themes or something or whatever? Body. Thet't know any of these. I wouldn't know. Amanda's the Expo. Yeah, because what is Scientology's Atheism or something? Body Thetans. Thetans. It's like Realism. Realism? I didn't look into that one specifically.

What was the People's Temple Massacre? How many people died? Was that Jonestown? That's what Jim said it was. Over 900. Over 900 people died. Wow. That's crazy. Every time I hear that, I thought it was around 600 too,

but every time I hear that number, I'm like shook still. 300 of them were 17 or under. When you just see that helicopter shot of them all just laying there, they're just fucking dead. That's a lot of poison. The crazy thing is, Amanda,

didn't you say that the few people that survived still said they don't regret having gone through the experience because it led them to where they are today? That was a Heaven's Gate survivor who said that.

Which is still pretty intense. Yeah, that was a suicide cult. In Jonestown, he had made them do runs where he told them they were doing it and they weren't doing it. And then there was already the thing. So he knew they were committed. No, no, no, no. No, no, they didn't.

They didn't. No. That's a myth. That's a myth. There were these events called White Nights that the press later told this story that they were suicide rehearsals. But it's disputed what a night, what,

what a white night even was. Sometimes some people say that it was one of these nights where you would like stay up all night with your weapons, preparing for an attack that never came. Some say it was just any meeting where death was brought up. Some say it was a meeting where you said you, you professed your willingness to die for the cause, but there weren't suicide

rehearsals in the way that the press later portrayed. I had a suicide rehearsal when I was 17. Oh, no. That was a stand-in. So what was the footwear at Heaven's Gate? The gym said Uggs. Where were they all wearing? 93 Nike Decades.

Oh. 1993 Nike Decades?. 1993 Nike decades? Are those still out? I like Nikes. I don't even know. If they brought them back, people would be like, ooh, this is cool. So they were discontinued. They're black and white and actually a very similar style is kind of back in, but they

were discontinued after the suicide because that was a bad PR moment. The people were discontinued. The suicide was not in at the time. Hold on. I'm on a resale website for sneakers. And these are Nike decade 93 black and white. It says DS. That says heaven's gate on here.

And they're going for $1,369. I saw a pair on eBay for six grand. I saw a pair on eBay for six grand. That's crazy. They're not a good looking shoe though. For how high sneakers go these days, I guess $1,300 isn't that bad. But you know what is nice? Allbirds. Allbirds.

Don't you dare take our sponsor. Allbirds. They lead as a very reasonable man who's helping me out in many ways. And then Raj Nishpuram cult in Oregon in 1985. Do we know what they did? They took up guns to defend themselves, Jim said. I forgot what happened at the end,

but there was definitely, they started fighting with the community. Wait, is that the cult that tried to rob a bank with the famous people's daughter. Let's see. Oh, what? You're talking about Patty Hearst? Yeah. No, I'm thinking of a different thing.

No, so this was, citizens and leaders were responsible for launching the 1984 Rajneeshi bioterror attacks as well as the planned 1985 assassination plot in which they conspired

to assassinate Charles Turner, the then US, United States attorney for the District of Oregon. Oh. Fun. Interesting. Probably with guns. And then Scientology. So cult, religion. Jim says he doesn't believe it's a cult

anymore because it is a religion now because of tax-free exemption. I will say this about L. Ron Hubbard seemed to be a very knowing man about himself. Like he said the whole whole thing if you ever want to make money start a religion I believe that he didn't believe his own bullshit either I think he just went into it like he's fucking

he was just a sci-fi nerd who took it way too far it's like if J.R.R. Tolkien instead of writing Lord of the Rings was like I'm going to write a pseudo bible yeah she could do it it's like when a creative writing major doesn't get enough attention. That's J.K. Rowling. Which one am I talking about? She was talking about George R.R. Martin.

The one with the bear token. Bear token. Rowling could start something up. She could fucking start Hogwarts up. We'd all bloody join. Why do they all have initials? I don't think anyone would join anymore. Any of the fantasy kind of...

I think it makes them sound smart. I didn't realize that until right now. They all have multiple initials in front of their names in that genre. I always thought for women it's because books by women didn't sell. Oh, really? Yeah, but Tolkien wasn't a woman.

Well, George R.R. Martin is more annoying because it's like the middle are the initials. George R.R. Martin. It stands for really rad. Oh, okay. I changed my name to E.S.I.A. H.G. Wells. And then there's Tolkien is J.R.R. C.S. Lewis. What is that?

I don't have a middle name. Cool story, Lewis. Why wouldn't he say that? That's so cool. There's something about a door to Narnia that's like, cool story, Lewis. He's like, wait a second. Oh my gosh. That's silly. That's hilarious.

And the last thing is reprogramming. Like, how does that work? That's what Jim, we were talking about when the loved ones get a cult member and they try to retrain them. I feel like it's kind of a similar word to like brainwashing. Oh, deprogramming. Deprogramming. Yeah. Which, well, Amanda always says that brainwashing is important.

Oh, it's the opposite. But are there people, is there like people dedicated to doing that? To reprogramming? I feel like it's like, yeah, kind of like, wait, so it's like when you leave a cult, you're getting reprogrammed. Yeah, I'm talking about when you leave a cult. I mean, I feel like it's like yeah kind of like wait so it's like when you leave a cult yeah yeah I'm talking about when you leave a cult like how do you I mean I feel like I don't know I feel like Americans are like obsessed with like applying words to things and it's like you're just leaving and you're readjusting I would say I've seen enough movies and docos where someone basically kidnaps a family member and then they deprogram them they take them off and

they have to talk to them for a long time and and the weird thing about that is they normally get like the local minister to come and do it you know what i mean it's very it's super controversial and uh well actually this is drama but there's like all this contention in the like very insular ironically cult-like community of people who talk about the best way to get people out of cults. And there are people being like, yes, deprogramming and brainwashing these, this is all real. And this is what we need to do. And anybody who says otherwise is wrong. Like, yeah, the cult space is culty. Yeah. I feel like it's kind of like, um, like addictions. Like if you're like addicted addicted to heroin, you're probably

going to fill that void with another addiction. Anthony Bourdain got addicted to traveling and cooking. And so with cults, if you leave a cult then immediately you kind of have to find another community to get you out of that space. What about Rocky Horror? You just hope you can

fill it with something better. Yeah. Oh, that's funny. Cause that, remember how I was talking about how like it really wasn't until the sixties and seventies when cults became something definitively bad at the same time, they also became something cool. So that's when you got terms like cult following and cult classic. As soon as something becomes scary, it also becomes edgy.

When was the golden era of cults? Now. Right now. Right now we're in it. This is a part of the show called Dinner Party Facts. We ask our guests to give us some sort of fact or something

interesting or obscure about the topic that they could use to impress people if this came up at a dinner party or a bar or something like that. Oh yeah. I don't know if you guys. We didn't prep you for this. Um, let me think.

Let me think. Prep, but I didn't prep. I didn't do my homework. I was told to prep. I mean the, we already said it, but the,

the Kool-Aid not being the actual brand that Jim Jones used. Oh, yeah. What was it? It's being Flavor-Aid. It was Flavor-Aid. It was just a generic brand. It still exists.

I'll tell you what, though. You've got to be pretty good if you're Kool-Aid and you still survive that. Like you would think 900 dead people, they'd be like, wow, our product's fucked. Kool-Aid wasn't a product in Australia, but we use the term. I remember people saying, oh, those people who drunk the Kool-Aid. No, I never had Kool-Aid in my whole life. So without Jim Jones, I would have never known about Kool-Aid at all.

Now, mind you, I've still never had a glass of Kool-Aid in my entire life. I've never had Kool-Aid in my life. I'll make you some. I got some Kool-Aid at home. See, I actually. I've tasted powdered drinks that sort of I've tasted, but I've never had Kool-Aid in my life. I'll make you some. I got some Kool-Aid at home. See, I actually, you know, I've tasted powdered drinks. That's sort of, I've tasted, but I've never had Kool-Aid because I, if I grew up here, I would.

But then it's one of those things that I've never had like a ding dong. You know what I mean? You've never had a ding dong? I've never had a ding dong because I can buy. What's your house, Jack? You've got Kool-Aid and ding dongs around? Oh, yeah. My house is like full of candy.

Oh, he made me try ice cream that tastes like mac and cheese. He brought that over to my house. Gus, I literally spit it out. All right. Well, Issa, Medina and Amanda Montel, thank you for being here. Their podcast is called Sounds Like a Cult. And it's available, I'm assuming, everywhere. Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher.

And you can find Amanda at Amanda underscore Montel, M-O-N-T-E-L-L, Issa Medina at, I'm going to spell it again, I-S-A-A-M-E-D-I-N-A-A. Follow their podcast at Sounds Like a Cult Pod. And also, oh, the book by, but it is J-R-R Montel, right? Not Amanda. Cultish, the language of fanaticism.

Thank you for being here on the podcast. I feel like it's fair that if you're ever dating somebody and they're not giving you much attention, you have to bring up that Keith Raniere and all these other people are love bombing hundreds of people at once. So they can definitely text you back. If they can do it, you can do it.

Yeah. So to summarize, cult, good. Thank you for being on the podcast. Ladies and gentlemen, if you're ever at a party and someone walks up to you and goes, your potential isn't fully formed and you can be the smartest person on earth, go, really? And then think about it for a second and go, well, I don't know about that and walk away.

Yeah. Goodnight, Australia.