I Don't Know About That - Depression

Episode Date: February 16, 2021

In this episode, the team discusses depression with licensed marriage and family therapist, host of the "Ask Kati Anything" Podcast and author of the upcoming book "Traumatized", Kati Morton (@ katimorton).See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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and I don't know about that, with Jim Jefferies. Who was it, Jack? Who was it? Who was it? Who sang? John Denver. Yay!

Jack doesn't need to know anything. He already knows all the things. This podcast isn't for you. If you're one of these dummies at home who didn't know the answer to that, keep listening. You're our demo. I'm here with Kelly and Forrest. How are you going?

You're both looking good. You're looking very sun, like the sun kissed at the moment. I was outside on my roof for a while this week. What were you doing? Some tar work. I was outside on my roof for a while this week. What were you doing? Some tar work? I was doing some mushrooms. By myself, looking at trees. I know.

The old roof's always a good place to do mushrooms. Something with no railings where you think you can fly. What a good space to be in. It's the rooftop patio, so I have a really great view of all the trees. And you know that's my favorite thing to do on mushrooms, just stare at nature. When your brother, I'm not going to say anymore. I don't know how much

he likes to disclose about his life on our podcast. He's been pretty open about the heroin. I wanted to say something real quick. By the time this comes out, it'll be like I guess two weeks old. Dustin Diamond died, also, aka Screech from Saved by the Bell. And I knew him a little bit.

And I went online after he passed away. And I feel like people were talking mad shit about a guy that was 44 that died from cancer. And never smoked. Yeah, yeah. Got a lung cancer. Fucking unlucky. And so he was doing stand-up in his later years. He was famously like a child

actor on a very popular show i'm sure did not make too much money from that show that show is renowned for that the kids all got ripped off i saw a true hollywood story thing on it they all got ripped off now many of them have had good careers after mario lopez and that other fucking guy i don't know the stripper lady yeah she had a couple movies. She lives near me somewhere. She came by on Halloween. That's it? Yeah.

She lives somewhere around. Hey. And so Dustin Diamond started doing stand-up afterwards, and he used his bit of fame that he had to draw people in, and people did attend the shows, you know, but he wasn't doing like, you know, the big, you know, theaters and like that. So he was still like eking out a living, you know, but he wasn't doing like, you know, the big, you know, theaters and like that. So he was still like eking out a living, you know? And I, so I spent a week with him in a condo in Northern Wisconsin. And before I went there, all these other comedians were like, guys, I heard he's like a dick and this and that or whatever. And he's not going to let you sell

your merchant at the time. I was, when you're a middle-aged, you got to sell your merchant to survive all this stuff that people told me they had heard about him and stuff. And I went there, I lived in a condo with him for a week. Super nice guy. Like brought my T-shirt on stage to help sell it. We would get drunk and fucking watch movies, hung out. He tried to get me management at a time. I didn't have management with his manager stuff.

And what's that? Is that Screech coming back? Is that Dustin? There's a sound having. They probably can't hear that, but it's an ominous sound. Turns out he doesn't want you to sell your T-shirts. Yeah, yeah. Turns out he was a dick.

Right on the podcast. Anyways, I'm not saying he was perfect. I don't know everything that went on in his life. I know there was sometimes allegations of him not being the nicest person sometimes. But that wasn't in my experience. And I just think when you're a child actor and then you like

you had this I mean he was really famous for a while and then he had to like basically lived in Milwaukee and worked these shit clubs and stuff I don't think

not giving him an excuse for things if they didn't but I think that his life was tough people people used him as a punching bag and a punchline

to jokes and then they said oh it's like you screech you screech, you screech. I'll tell you what that I've realized, the small amount of fame that I've had and famous people that I've known. Whenever someone says, oh, that person's an asshole, okay, think about your own life.

When someone thinks you're an asshole, when someone says that you're an asshole, you normally think they're an asshole as well. You're not getting along with that person. So if you've gotten into contact with someone, I'm friends with Russell Crowe. A lot of people go, Russell's one of the nicest, a bit eccentric, but one of the nicest fucking people you've ever met, and people always go on. And that's why I always defend the whole Ellen thing as well.

Like, I wasn't there. I don't know what happened. Maybe these people were assholes to her, or maybe there was some incident that happened at work that made her shut off from the rest of the crew. Who fucking knows? I think a lot of people probably think you're an asshole

because of your comedy but you're actually a very generous, nice person. That's what I was trying to get to the whole time. Except for the male character. So if any good came out

of Dustin's death it is that I'm a nice fella. I'm just trying to get a raise. You know, it was like a year after I worked with him he called me one time. It was in Vegas and he said some guy had stolen my joke and he was like, you want me to do something about it? it was like a year after I worked with him he called me one time it was in Vegas

and he said some guy had stolen my joke and he was like you want me to do something about it I was like hey no thank you is that the knife incident

where you got the knife but my point is is like that guy died from cancer when he was 44 I think had a difficult a life that peaked when he was very young

and obviously we were just saying was like ripped off and then probably struggled through a lot of it. So maybe take it easy on him. And I know that he apologized to a lot of people a couple years, maybe two, three years ago, the people in the cast and stuff that maybe he had wronged and said some shit about and stuff in his book. But anyways, try not to be a dick when people die.

That's all I'm saying. Fair enough. Which leads us to this ad. Right now? We have Jack's segment. Oh, Jack's. Fair enough. All right, which leads us to this ad. Right now? We have Jack's segment. Oh, Jack's got a segment. Yeah. Holy hell, Carolyn.

Here we go. Make it quick, Jack. It's Comment World. Make it quick. All right. Comment World. It's Comment World. Reading comments off the internet in Comment World.

Opinionated fucks, but we don't give a shit. So fuck them in the ass and let's be done with it. It's comment boom. Is that a new song? No, that's Michael Miller. Yeah. Don't say Michael Miller like you just said Quincy Jones or something. He's the best. Alright, we'll start with some compliments.

This is one of my new favorite podcasts. So glad I found it. It reminds me of the conversations I had with my students at the special needs school. That's a good thing because of how creative they are. I saw the special needs kids. Sounds like an insult. Yeah, it sounds like an insult to everybody. Seems nice.

This person says, I went and did a line of Coke and then liked everyone's comment to make everyone feel good about themselves. Give them what they want. Give them what they want! I gotta bring that back. That's kind of fun by the wayside. In bold, it says this podcast has a good format. Stick with it. Jack, he strikes me as a fine young man. Kelly and Forrest also

come off as good folk, as does Jim. To be fair, perhaps, Jim is more open-wounded than the others, but that's probably the root of his comedy success. P.S. Forrest does strike me as a good lad, but then again, I wouldn't be shocked if a pile of bones belonging

to young females were discovered under his house in 50 years. The stinger being the bones have been gnawed upon. He kills the elderly. How does he know I have a crawl space in my house? People like your t-shirts, Forrest. They say,

Forrest out here representing good albums every other episode on your shirt. We must have had some comments about your roast. People love the roast. Tons of comments. Yeah, good job.

A lot of nice ones. Yeah. Can I give you some. Let's go. All right. One is, sorry, I'm going out of order. He's so stressed out right now. Keep Jack.

He's important. Right. What about your dad? Keep Jack. He's important. I'm part of the ecosystem. Without him, it all crumbles so someone else did say

keep up the bullying we will someone said had to post my comments straight after Jack finished the roast this was too funny give him a cookie that was legit a good roast

that roast had me on the floor that roast segment had me in tears love Jack's roast voice and presence my wife loved the roast she thought you were fantastic I've watched it so many times

and it still makes me laugh out loud that was good thank you everybody maybe your finest work yeah you should be a roaster I'll try after that

we recorded that we got in the elevator together Jim and I and Jim's like maybe Jack this is his wheelhouse here insult comedy yeah

hey you in the audience you look ugly alright maybe not you have to work on it Maybe Jack, this is his wheelhouse here. Insult comedy. Hey, you in the audience, you look ugly. All right, maybe not. You have to work on it. You've got to plan them. I don't think off the cuffs, you think. No, no, no. I need to think in a room for a while. People were very impressed in the anatomy episode

that you got it on your first guest. People were saying, I spilled my coffee that you got on the first guest. People were excited that you nailed it. I was excited as well. I was excited. This is kind of a Kelly question, but not sure if it's been asked previously, but who is the four photo collage above

Kelly's right shoulder? It's the Beatles. Oh my God. Anyone can answer that. Sort of a Kelly question. It just had Kelly in the question. This is my domain, so please. And now next week it's like, who are the Beatles?

My grandmother painted this. Anybody was interested? It's a nice painting. As you remember, you accidentally said Pablo Pascal as the Mandalorian. I don't remember that. But then we made a joke about it being Pablo Francisco, and people enjoyed that thought of Pablo Francisco as the Mandalorian. I know that some people got upset that I said Robert Plant was a cocaine taker

and he died. I wasn't thinking of him. I was thinking of, I think, Robert Palmer. He's alive too. No, who's the bloke who's saying simply irresistible? That's Robert Palmer. No, he's dead. He's alive too. No, who's the bloke who sang Simply Irresistible? That's Robert Palmer. No, he's dead.

He's dead? He's dead all day. He's been dead for well over a decade. You're like, but I bought a new album last week. He's been dead for a very long time.

All dead all day. What did I say about Screech? Don't make fun of him. This is the last one for today. I'm not sure why this was commented. They went, this is on the cocaine episode

by the way Robert Palmer's estate I have no evidence that he didn't took cocaine I would not like to be sued thank you very much that was allegedly I was just making comments

this person said sitting on the shitter right now clean pinch almost no skid marks on the toilet paper smells like milk though might be drinking too much coffee that's three thumbs up.

Don't know why that was commented. Feels like that was a comment for our podcast. I think the lame comment world on that one. You're not going to peak on that one. You got one better one you want to go? Are you all good? No, that's the one I wanted to end on. All right, let's read some ads.

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another one you like meat I love meat Thank you for supporting this podcast. Another one. You like meat? I love meat. It's right up there with all the other foods. Probably number one in many ways. Yeah. We got a butcher box, man. We got a butcher box.

They gave me a butcher box. I don't eat the pork anymore, but I slipped a bit of, I had some of the pulled pork. Oh, yeah. You tried it already? Yeah, I ate that. But I gave had some of the pulled pork. Oh, yeah. You tried it already? Yeah, I ate that. But I gave Jack all my other pork products. He left the house just to eat it.

The bacon. Oh, yeah, bacon's great. Oh, they had ribs. Ribs. And everything in my box was grass-fed. I'm on a grass-fed thing. And it was all, I had great beef and stuff like that. And I have chicken breasts that were organic, grass-fed chicken breasts

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and a packet of bacon for free with your first box. Please welcome our guest this week, Katie Morton. Hello, Katie. Thank you for being on the show. I appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for having me, Jim. Okay, Katie's American. I already know that much.

I'm all over this. Crushing it. I'm crushing it. We've had a lot of British guests of late. Yeah, we have, actually. It's good to hear an American voice. All these British people with their knowledge and they always sound smarter.

I've always said that's why the British, they get their work in America because you think they're smart. It is one of the smartest accents or smartest sounding accents. They're allowed to be villains in movies. I can't be a villain. You can't show up and go,

all right, you fuckers, this is what's going to happen here. You're all in a lot of trouble. Ah, Mr. Bond, I can't be a villain. You can't show up and go, all right, you fuckers, this is what's going to happen here. You're all in a lot of trouble. Ah, Mr. Bond, I was expecting you. No, can't do it. You've never mistaken an Australian or a southern person for being really smart. No, South Africans can be villains.

Oh, they can be villains all day. You can throw a South African out there to tell you off about something wrong that you've done. But if you're New Zealanders, they can't even be gardeners with their accents. So Katie Morton's here. Anyway, so hello, Katie. This is a section we do called Judging a Book by Its Cover.

Yes, no. Yes, no. Yes, no. Yes, no. Judging a book by its cover. That's the song we have. That's the song. have. That's the song. Now, normally I...

Say yes, no, yes, no, because you're supposed to ask yes, no questions. I know, it's yes, no questions. But normally what I do is I try to judge your background, your backdrop. And normally there's books or something that I can look at or there's a little statue or something, a doll of some description. But at the moment you have a stripy-ish sort of painting that tells me nothing. Maybe you work for Etsy. But are you a professor?

No. No. Is your expertise something that people would call an intellectual pursuit? Yes. Oh, it's an intellectual pursuit all right so it's not it's not fast food or any of the things like that do you do you do you give lectures yes okay have you written books yes okay have you written over two books uh my second one will come out this September. Okay.

Does it involve the human body? We always talk about the human body on this show. Obsessed we are. Yes. Yes. All right. We always do. No, we just had anatomy.

We just did an anatomy episode, yeah. And then we did a cocaine one recently. That's not the human body. It was cocaine trafficking. It's all, there's people carrying it. Yeah, I guess in the human body they do carry it. The body's always involved. Yeah, that's true.

Do you want a hint? I can give you an easy one. You know, well, first of all, Katie is something you were just talking about. I was watching her while you were just talking about something before we started recording, and I was thinking, oh. All right, she's fighting with my wife as well? we started recording and I was thinking, oh.

She's fighting with my wife as well? She's in that realm and then within that realm is our subject. And that's our episode. Jim's fighting with his wife. Marriage counseling? Well, yeah. So let's just say if you would go to see someone about this. You've been affected by this. Like a therapist or a counselor.

I've been affected by this yeah yeah has it got to do with uh i i give up i don't know um well you know it's very and put it this way uh we recently did an episode on cocaine and then the next day this happens oh um uh you kick the girl out of your house. How do you feel? Oh, depression. That's it. Depression. I'm the king of depression.

I love a bit of depression. I jump in the deep end and have a good swim with it. That's our subject today. Katie Morton, LMFT, holds a master's in clinical psychology from Pepperdine University and is a licensed marriage and family therapist. She runs a private practice in Santa Monica, California. So, you know, maybe. Katie is well known for her YouTube channel, Katie Morton, which has over 1 million subscribers and over 75 million views.

She also has a podcast, Ask Katie Anything. And she also has a book available, Are You Okay? A Guide to Caring for Your Mental Health, How to Know if you need help and where to find it released in December, 2018. As she said, she has a book coming out in September and you can find her at Katie Morton on IG and Twitter. That's K A T I M O R T O N. Thanks for being here, Katie. Yeah. Thanks for having me. Yeah. And usually we ask a little bit, if you can give a little bit of background of like, you know, what, what you've been up to, what led you here and to this subject. So. Yeah. I've always enjoyed, even as a kid, like a young teenager, I love being the secret keeper. I mean, part of it might be because at that age you love gossip and you love drama and you want

to know about it. But part of what I enjoyed the most was like being the vault, like nothing would leave. I would never tell anybody your business. And I always liked that my friends would come to me to talk about things. And so that's kind of, I guess you could say, where my interest in psychology was formed. And then my high school offered... I want to say it was my junior or senior year. They offered an intro to psychology. And once I took that class, I was hooked. And then undergrad, I really enjoyed it. Before I went to graduate school, I actually worked at a... This is going to sound very intense.

So just hang with me. It was intense. But I worked just off of Skid Row in a parenting or pregnant teen foster home. And we had, I want to say, 62 girls. And then they had multiple children. And so that was to see if I could hack it, if I enjoyed actually being at the time I was a counselor, you know, cause I wasn't licensed, didn't have my master's degree and loved it.

Couldn't get enough of it. And so, yeah, then flash forward to getting into graduate school. I, one of my first jobs because I put myself through school and school's really expensive. Jeez. You know, thanks for nothing people. But yeah, parents couldn't have, you know, couldn't pay for that. Understandably so. But I started working a job. The only job I could find that would pay me. And it was at an eating disorder treatment center. And that's kind of how, that's my specialty. I specialize in eating disorders and self-injury.

Forest beat anorexia himself. That's pretty good. That's amazing. He really crushed it. Rude. It was around that time my husband wanted to start the... He was my boyfriend at the time, but he was like, you should put some of this information on YouTube. And so flash forward, here we are almost nine years later.

Yeah. A million followers. That's very impressive. Or subscribers. Very impressive. Yeah. Oh, thanks. It doesn't impressive. Or subscribers. Very impressive. Yeah. Oh, thanks. It doesn't feel that crazy because YouTube's wild. People have like tens of millions. We don't. We don't.

200,000. That's not bad. Yeah, it's all right. That's fine. But also, Jim, I get so many messages to either the podcast account or the old show account and stuff like that. And so many people write in that you helped them with their depression, A, because you were public about your own struggles, but also just you bring joy to people. So this was definitely an episode worth doing because so many people look up to you when it comes to dealing with depression.

They look up to me when it comes to being sad. Yeah. That guy's really nailed it. You're the ideal sad for them. I'm an inspiration to people who are like, at least I'm not him. Well, you've talked about it in your specials. Yeah, yeah. No, I've been on and off of antidepressants,

and I'm not on them at the moment, but I've suffered from depression. I've had suicidal thoughts and all that type of stuff. I'm quite open about all that. Okay. Well, we're going to see how much you know from depression. I've had suicidal thoughts and all that type of stuff. I'm quite open about all that. Okay. Well, we're going to see how much you know about depression. It's kind of a weird thing to be like, how much do you know about depression? If you don't know a lot at all, it'll make you sad. And I'll ask you some questions and, you know, I'm sure there'll be like Kelly was saying

yesterday on our phone call with Katie, it might be a little more conversational, but we'll see how it goes. Well, I don't, I don't, I don't know what the, the, the chemical imbalances and stuff like that.

So that'll be, we'll see. And then, so when he's done talking, you can grade him zero through 10, Katie on his accuracy, 10 being the best. And Kelly,

you're great. I'm zero through 10 on confidence. And I agree to zero through 10, et cetera. We'll add them all together. And, you know, I make these funny categories normally, and I agree to zero through 10 on et cetera. We'll add them all together, and, you know, I make these funny categories normally, but I just really don't feel like talking about it today.

So I'm not going to make the categories. Yeah, I know I was going to do those, but I'm not, so. Yeah, anyways. All right. Damn, you're already depressed. All right, go away. What is depression? Depression is a form of, it's when you're sad, basically.

That's the thing that you've got to, you can't pick yourself up. For me, it forms itself in not being able to get out of bed or my brain being on a loop that I can't turn off where I have constant thoughts or paranoia or something like that that leads to me self- paranoia or something like that that leads to me self-hate and stuff like that. But I'm sure it forms in different people in different ways. So are there different types that are present? There are different types. There's people who just... See, I have a relative who is manic depressive, which bipolar is the other term

for that. And that's the depression where you have times of real lowness and then you're really high and you're this and you're excited and you want to do different things in the world. And then extreme highs and extreme lows, where I just have lows that last a long time. Okay. So I'm not bipolar. Any other kind of depression?

Okay, I got that. Yeah. What causes it, you know know um well it can be caused by many things it can be caused by things that you've done to yourself like uh it can be definitely it's a genetic thing that you that that if you have depression in your family there's a higher chance that you'll have depression as well um it can be caused just by you know there can be nature and nurture there can be sometimes just a chemical imbalance in your brain that you have a higher disposition to being depressed. Also, it can just

be that the world's crushed you, I think, and then you can't get out of it. Some people deal with their emotions better than others. And for me, that's what I've sort of learned about depression is that, as I said, I jump in the deep end sometimes. I wallow in it and splash around, and I really shouldn't do that because that's not healthy not me i'm perfect i've got i've gotten better i'm better now than i was 10 years ago 10 years ago i was a real i was it was real touch and go with me whether i was going to commit suicide or not like really close 10 years ago yeah maybe 10 12 years ago yeah yeah yeah i was very close That's like when I met you.

Yeah. Oh, interesting. And then things turned around. Maybe, like I said, I'm perfect. I know that success and money and all that type of stuff doesn't get rid of it. I know that that doesn't change anything. And then I've had it at times in my life where things are going really well, so I can't even put my finger on why it happens.

And then when it sneaks up on you and how long it's going to last for. Because I'll have really good runs where I think I've got it under control and I don't even need to see a doctor, I don't need any medication, I've got it all under control, and then I just tip off the cliff a little bit, you know, and then once you fall, you can't really. I liken it to the same way that when you fall in love, you can't stop it when you meet someone you fall in love. That's why it's called falling because you're just like,

everything's just happening and you can't control it. And it's the same thing when I fall into a pit of depression. I can't control it. Things are just happening to me. So, like, you maybe already did this. If somebody else, what are signs and symptoms of depression um well the the depends on the person but as i said there's um the the big one is no motivation to do anything to to get up to i get so depressed that sometimes i don't want to

go to a therapist because that seems like too much effort to make the call and to actually get there and to drive down there. I've actually found that the old Zoom therapy sessions for depression suit me down to a T. Yeah, right? You get straight onto it. You're bloody straight in there, which is one of our advertisers, by the way. But that's neither here nor there. But I find that to be, but other symptoms, I don't know what other people have symptoms. It's just, it's a, it's a, it's for me, it's a, it's, it's a obsessing and you can't get your brain off of one track of what's making you sad or, or something like that.

Well, okay. So what's the difference between depression and sadness? Sadness is a thing that comes and goes and you should be sad every now and again. There's things that are worthy to be sad of. Depression is like clinical depression is a thing that sticks with you for a lot longer and you can't really get out of, and often you need medical attention to actually get to the other side, where sadness isn't something that you need to see a doctor about.

All right, and I'm going to ask you a couple more questions because I think we'll just get to a lot of these as we're talking. Is depression considered a mental illness? I believe so, yeah. Okay. Yeah. I don't believe it's considered a mental illness in the same way that's like schizophrenia or something like that. And I know that bipolar is definitely considered to be a mental illness, but just clinical depression, I think so. Yeah, I think so. But I don't think it's a thing that you need to worry about if you're employing someone or something like that. I think it's a very manageable thing, depression, as long as you stay on track. Okay. I was going to ask you if it's genetic. You said it was.

I believe it is. I believe depression's genetic. And then how can it be treated? You mentioned a few things. Well, therapy is probably the best one. And then there's things that can change your serotonin and all that type of stuff in your mind and different tablets. You've got your classic, your Prozac and your Klonoprims and all that type of stuff. And some people use anti-anxiety drugs like Xanax and stuff like that

to try to stop the – because anxiety and depression are very close. They're related in a way. They sort of hang out with each other. All right. Can children have depression? Yeah. Yeah, of course children can have depression. And then let's say this.

Who is at risk for depression? Like what group is most likely to be affected for example like men women older younger any specific um i i see i might be wrong i believe it's slightly higher in men uh uh i have theories on depression i believe that depression also sort of peaks uh i think i read somewhere, it peaks around 44 is where depression really peaks for people. That's not good. I peaked at 17. A lot of people start to sort of say, oh,

well that's when the middle life crisis happens or whatever. But I have theories on this. I believe that's when, okay, so there's optimism in your 20s that you think I'm going to make it, I'm going to take over the world. You get depressed that things aren't happening. And then like when you're 44, you start to go, fuck, I'm not going to do this.

And if I'm going to do it, I have to do it now. And then I think your depression sort of goes away in your mid-50s and up because you go, oh, well, I didn't make it. What are you going to do? Right? Because my dad quite openly suffered from depression very badly, you know, at an extreme level. And he's the happiest old fella

you'll ever meet these days. I think he just got to the other side. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Let's ask one more question and we'll get to some of that stuff. Or actually two more. What is postpartum depression? That's what happens to women after they give birth to a baby. Not all women, but some women they give birth to a baby, not all women, but some women get postpartum depression. Sometimes it's because- Why? Like what happens? Well, I'm sure there's a chemical involved and I'm sure there's a thing, but like my experience of knowing people who have had it and stuff like that, sometimes people, I think it's, and this is going to make me very popular, for some people it's, they've lost their freedom and

maybe their body isn't looking as good as they was and then they start thinking that they're not an individual anymore and they're only seen as a mom and they used to have a life and people saw them outside of this one i think all these contributing factors just sort of you know oh shit you know there's a bit of that that goes on okay and then depression as a whole can it be cured? I don't believe you can cure. Like, I think people can have depression in their life, and then they can stop having depression. But I don't believe you can cure it as in, and cure it.

I think it's something that you always have to be on the lookout for if you've suffered from it before. Okay. That's like the most seriously you've ever taken these questions. Yeah. It's a serious topic. Yeah, I know. Maybe that or autism.

That's true. You tried it lately on autism. You didn't want to. Okay. Any of the ones where you're Yeah, I know. Maybe that or autism. That's true. You trended lately on autism. You didn't want to. Okay. Any of the ones where you're like, I could possibly offend somebody right now. You're like, let me take this seriously. Coca-Cola, you're all over the place. I know.

All right, Katie. So on a zero to 10, how did Jim do on depression and accuracy? I think he did pretty well. I'd give him like a seven. Yeah. Wish I could have gotten bigger. Well, the symptoms were a little lacking, you know, because you were like, well, I don't know.

I mean, for me it's this way. And so there are definitely a lot more symptoms. Yeah, I don't know what it is for other people. I just know what I've gone through for myself. But I don't know what it is for other people. What about confidence? Yeah, I mean, you didn't come off like super confident, but I think you know what's going on. So I would give you a seven. You seemed a little depressed, I mean, you didn't come off like super confident, but I think you know what's going on, so I'll give you a seven.

You seemed a little depressed, I mean, honestly. Just thought it'd be a funner subject. Our last two subjects were astrology and cocaine trafficking. What is next week's episode like? Hemorrhoids and why they won't go away. Basically, this is all just an intervention for you

you'll do well no I don't know what our next week's is I forgot but uh okay on etc I'm gonna give you a hundred Jim

cause I want you to feel good about yourself and I'm gonna take you out for ice cream afterwards oh that's cute no but the food doesn't help it man the food is a short term fix

yeah the food makes you fat the fat makes you fucking depressed and it's a vicious cycle. But the food does help out in the short term. Fair enough. I don't think there's anything in the world that helps out. Me, more short-term.

Alcohol. People self-medicate. I self-medicated with alcohol for years. Yeah, but we've talked about this, about would you rather be able to, what was it, eat food and not get fat and not have sex anymore? What was the thing? We did a whole. Yeah, okay.

So the two options is you can have sex with whoever you want, whenever you want, right? And you won't get any STDs. No one's getting pregnant unless you want them to or anything like that. But you can't eat. Or you can eat whatever you want whenever you want and you won't get fat. Oh, eating. Easy.

Eating. Easy. Eating. Forget about it. Go away. All right, so. You won't even need other people on the planet. Sex is so overrated.. Forget about it. Go away. All right, so. You won't even need other people on the planet. Sex is so overrated.

Tell me about it. All right. You can't see him, Katie. That's Jack, who's had sex once. Three times. Three times. Three times. Four times.

No, three times two girls. That's the thing. Three times two girls. Count it. Count it. Nobody wants to watch. Because none of them are talking to me. You can't see Jack, but he should be depressed.

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Murdered that one. Katie, so what is depression? Jim said it's when you're sad, basically you can't pick yourself up, can't get out of bed, constant looping thoughts, paranoia, so forth. But is there an actual definition? Yeah, I mean, there's definitely symptoms, and Jim got quite a few of them. It was the persistent feeling of sadness,

which you kind of talked about when, like, what's the difference between it and sadness? Sadness kind of them. Like it was, uh, the persistent feeling of sadness, which you kind of talked about when, like what's the difference between it and sadness, sadness kind of can come and go, but when it's persistent, it lasts for technically speaking, diagnostically speaking, they say it must last for most of the day for all days for at least two weeks. So it's like, it just is hanging around ruining things. Um, and then you have a lack of interest or enjoyment in things that you used to like or

enjoy. So just that they call it anhedonia, but it's just like, you just feel like shit essentially. And so there's that. And then there's changes in your sleep cycles, like either sleeping too much or not enough, overeating, undereating. And it's just disturbances in sleep and disturbances in appetite because everybody's different, right? Some people, when they get super stressed or overwhelmed or sad, don't want to eat and other people want to overeat. Then there's difficulty with concentrating. That's one that's overlooked a lot. And a lot of times we'll think that, you know, we're just, we're just stupid because we're depressed, right? So we're thinking poorly about ourselves. But difficulty concentrating is really huge. And then, you know, feeling fatigued, having body aches, those can all be

symptoms of depression. I don't really know body. I once didn't sleep for about a week or something. My brain didn't turn off. It was about like, it was an hour here, an hour there that I'd drop out. I was right in the middle of it when I was living in London. Yeah. I know you well enough to think, I know when you've been depressed or not, you don't sleep. I don't think that's your thing. Like it's like, you don't, because some people sleep a lot, but I know like. Yeah. I'll stay up 24 hours if i'm which is just torture yeah my brain won't turn off yeah there's no way to turn on i try to sleep with a tv on it's like the last time i got depression i got really into nazi documentaries

so i'd be i'd be laying in bed and then they'd go, and Himmler was having a fight with blah, blah, blah. And Goebbels was trying, he was having an affair with some movie harlot and I was like, oh, that's what Goebbels is up to. I'd drip off. And then what happened to the Third Reich? And then I'd fall back asleep. Yeah, terrible.

Maybe try Animal Planet next time. Yeah. I don't know the documentary. It's just it's so intense, the Nazis, that it – no, they're so – they were up to no – if you don't know about them, you don't know about them. They were no good. They were a bunch of rotters, they were.

Anyway, so what happens with them is it's so compelling and it's so bizarre what the Nazis did that my brain actually switches off and starts going, wow, that's amazing. Where if it's just like The Simpsons or something, my brain won't pay attention to it. It won't lock in. Yeah, it won't lock in, but I can lock in to some Nazi doggos. You're like, at least I'm not that guy.

Yeah, I'll lay in bed going, I'm not Hitler. I can paint. I forget who, but I think it was a therapist. I'm not sure. But somebody told me one time that depression is anger internalized. Is that a way to look at it? I've said that before. It's like anger in.

Because a lot of times, you know, we'll think of certain things. Like I talk about self-injury that way too, that it's just upset in. It's like, I don't know how to express how I feel. So I just take it out on myself. Right. That makes sense. Cause that's what happened. That's what I do when I get like depressed. I'll just be, I think that's what I'm doing. I'm like really angry about something and then I'm like bringing it. Yeah. Yeah. And so I sometimes still have the classic, like the childhood thing where I still have repressed memories from my childhood that I'm angry about that I haven't let go that people I should have forgiven and stuff like that. I find that that is a big step for getting rid of depression. This is my key. If I was a psychologist, tell me if I'm wrong. Forgiveness is the way to

get rid of depression, forgiving the people who you think have wronged you and more importantly, forgiving yourself if you've done something wrong. Yeah, I think that is a big part of it. There's a lot more to it, you know, because obviously another symptom I didn't mention of depression, which you kind of touched on is like suicidal thoughts. Yeah. And those can happen because we feel kind of like hopeless slash helpless. But yeah, I mean, you're correct. And it's funny with it because I was having suicidal thoughts and I had a friend who just said something really nice to me that one day and just turned everything around for me. Yeah.

It was just one sentence. nice to me that one day and just turned everything around for me. It was just one sentence. And that's why I do try to, whenever I can be nice to someone, I always try to go, Hey, you're good at something or whatever. I always try to do a little thing to pick someone up if I, you know. Yeah. It's always been confusing to me because, well, especially when it comes to suicide and people talk about how selfish it is. And I've never been sad enough to do this. Like I attempted suicide when I was 17. I spent seven days in the ICU. It was never about sadness. And my depression usually manifests in a way that's like apathy.

And it's not that I'm sad or something bad happened in my life. It's just, I just don't fucking care about living. And so it's like, if I can just disappear, like the torture of living every day when I'm really depressed doesn't outweigh the pros of like what life. It's not special to me, I guess. I don't believe it's selfish to commit suicide. Not in their brain anyway. It might be because even people who have kids,

I know people who have committed suicide, even people who have had kids or whatever, their brain gets to a level where they truly believe that everyone will be better off without them. Totally. And that's when you get to that everyone will be better off without them. Totally. Yeah. And that's when you get to that stage, that's fucking real danger.

Right. Right then. I always had one person in my mind that I'd really upset my mom. You know what I mean? I always, that would upset my mom. I'm at the point now where I know because I have nephews that I wouldn't do it.

Even if I have suicidal ideations, I'm like, all right, well that's something I can't touch. I've never had a suicidal thought since my son's been born. Yeah. I haven't since I changed careers do it. Even if I have suicidal ideations, I'm like, all right, well, that's something I can't touch. I've never had a suicidal thought since my son's been born. Yeah. I haven't since I changed careers, actually. Like this, this changing careers cured my depression for now.

Just hanging out with me must be a real joy for you. I do love hanging out with you. You're fucking great. All right. This is fun. All right. So we're putting it on and I'm doing most of the talking. So sorry, we'll get back to you.

So suicidal thoughts was another one of the symptoms? Uh-huh. Yeah. I mean, obviously people talk about that a lot, but suicidal thoughts don't always, there aren't always a symptom of depression, but they can be. I think a lot of people think, oh, if you are suicidal, you're depressed. That's not always the case.

Just like we were just talking about. That's crazy. So there's people who are committing suicide who are in a good mood you can just feel uncomfortable in your body you could feel like i mean hopelessness like not feeling fulfilled not feeling like you have purpose. I mean, not all of those, that doesn't always mean that you don't, that you feel sad all day, every day. That can be like, almost people talk about like existential crisis. It can feel more like that where you're like, what is it even worth? Why am I even doing this? I maybe don't feel super sad and you're not enjoy certain things, but I had this overall sense of just

like, it's not worth it. Like the apathy. Oh yeah. That's me of that. Yeah. So yeah, it's more of that. It wasn't necessarily, you might've had depression, but I always just say that because some people will say, well, I'm not really depressed, but I do have like fleeting thoughts of suicide. And I'm like, yeah, that's very possible. That's why we said I never had a gun, man. It would be too easy. What about if someone broke into your house? Why did someone break into my house? After the gun control thing,

people would start going, what about, I had all these things. Cause I swear to God, man, and I had someone break into my house after the gun control thing, people would start going, what a bet. I had all these things. Cause I swear to God, man, if I had a gun, there's some mornings I'd use it as a snooze. I'm telling you,

if you're sitting on the bedside table, that's, you don't want to have that around you. Right. Now what a bloody horrible thought. Um, you need to have like protective, we call it like a,

I mean, that's a very extreme version, but we call it like having a safety plan. Like you should have something in place. You can't impulsively take your life especially if you struggle with the thoughts i've said to my brother that if this past year happened in 2016 there's no way i would have made it out of this year alive like i'm so thankful i'm in a much better place mentally because i guaranteed i would have offed myself during this last year. So I like really feel for people who are dealing with depression currently in this shit show.

Yeah. Suicide rates have gone up, unfortunately in 2020, you know, cause now we kind of have that more data. And that's, that's what, because of unemployment or just because people didn't, you know, cause people aren't busy, they get more depressed. What about quarantine? Probably the isolation. What about quarantine has brought more depression into the world or more suicide? I have theories, but maybe you know.

Yeah, there's a lot of it. Job loss is a big one, especially for men. And men, statistically speaking, men who attempt suicide actually end up taking their life. Whereas women who do, because we tend to try to overdose on pills and things like that it's just behaviorally i don't really know why it's just not as good at it men are number one now this might be i might i might be about to say something super misogynistic and it's out of character for me um no no no. Okay. I heard that, okay, so men hang themselves and men shoot themselves in the head, right? And women like the pills and maybe the slitting of the wrists over that. I heard it's because when they find the body, they don't want their face all fucked up because

of women admire beauty more. Or the gram. That could be it. What I would have, what I've read. And obviously the people who have taken their own lives, we can't hear from them. So we don't always understand,

but people who have attempted said they didn't want to leave a mess. A lot of women just didn't want to leave a mess for people. Um, and they didn't want to be overly traumatic. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's kind of that thing.

I'm all about the mess. I came into this world in a mess. and that's the way I intend to live. I came in covered in placenta. I didn't care. That was me. Hello, world. Alyssa, go ahead. Oh, I was just going to say the reasons that it's gone up,

I think, is varied as the people. Like job loss is huge with men, especially because a lot of times, and I know this sounds very stereotypical, but it is statistically speaking, men tend to be the breadwinners. So there's more pressure on them if they lost their job. So there's that. Then the isolation is bad.

I also think that if you had any glimmer of hope that you were just barely holding onto, this year has been hard for regular people without depression to feel hopeful. Right. So that can be tricky and really hard. And then there's the, you know, there's just so much to it. If you had certain outlets and coping skills, like tons of my patients used to go to group exercise classes, whether it's yoga, the gym, whatever, and that we can't do that anymore. Or I used to go out, you know, for appetizers and drinks with friends on Fridays. And that was my time to connect with

people. All of this, I think, compounded, not to mention just the fact that we're in our stress response because there's a threat, the virus. When you were saying that about the breadwinners and all that type of stuff, I have experienced in the last sort of eight years a different, smaller different type of depression because I have dependents. I have people who rely on me. Even when I had the Jim Jefferies show,

I remember feeling a pressure on me that I was responsible for everyone's jobs in that building, and if the show wasn't picked up, then all these people would be unemployed, and it put me in a bad mood sometimes. But that's why I always, you know, you don't know what was happening in Ellen's head, maybe. Ellen had stresses the rest of them didn't bloody understand, I'll tell you that much.

Obviously this podcast was after Ellen went down and shot that shopping centre. That's a good callback. Yeah, I'm just guessing that happened. She was really stressed out. Okay, so different types of depressions. Jim said manic depressive. Did you say bipolar?

I think bipolar and manic depression is the same thing. Is it? Just two different names? Yeah, just two different names. Technically, diagnostically, we call it bipolar. And there's bipolar 1 and there's bipolar 2. Both can have depression in it. However, bipolar 2 does not have mania.

You have hypomania, which is the best way I can describe it. It's just a lesser amount of mania. You don't reach full-blown mania. So it can be part of that diagnosis. It can be part of people who have schizophrenia, who have psychosis. They can have the depressed type. So you have psychotic symptoms and schizophrenic symptoms as well as depression. You can have the depressed type so you have psychotic symptoms and schizophrenic symptoms as well as depression you can have psychotic depression on its own they call there's another diagnosis for that there's postpartum depression yeah and then there's even like low-grade depression we call it dysthymia but it's like when you just have like you kind of just slightly feel bad it's enough to be upsetting but often people go years without treatment.

And so it can be really devastating that way too. Is there, this might sound like a ridiculous question. Are there people that are too happy? I mean, that would be mania maybe. Yeah. They're just like, like, like they're just living in the highs all the time. Like if I just go live through the depression and there are people that are just like Betty White's one of those people, right? Every time you see her, she's just like, I was just so happy to be on Golden Girls and my husband was just the best.

And, oh, life's living. And I'm like, what's wrong with you, Betty? Dolly Parton. Dolly Parton, too bloody happy. She wrote sad songs, the Parton bit. But, you know, is that a thing? I imagine they're publicly facing they're happy. I imagine they don't visit the doctor for that.

Like, I got to tell you, I'm always in a good mood. Is it true that depression is often linked to your intelligence level? Like you find that people that have lower IQs tend to be happier and people with higher IQs tend to be more depressed. I haven't read anything about that. That's interesting. I feel like I read an article a couple of years ago about that. And it was like, it was linked. And it was basically because people who have this level of intention of

intelligence know too much about the world. And so they they're more skeptical about things. Whereas like lower intelligence, you're kind of like, do, do, do life is fun. And you're not thinking about all of those like dreadful things that other people hold on to. I always think that. Ignorance is bliss. University lecturers are always miserable bastards.

Every time they're like, oh, God. I've never met a really smart, happy person. No, no, no. I've never met a really intelligent, happy person. And it's the same with religion. It's like if you're less educated, people are normally more religious and all that type of stuff. And, you know, smart people think too much and all that type of stuff. Yeah.

You know, smart people think too much and then they make themselves miserable. Anyway, it's just a theory. So if you ever feel depressed, just know you're really smart. Yeah, yeah. And you won't be depressed anymore. All right, Elon Musk. If you're one of these people who are always happy, you moron. I don't think there is a diagnosis of being too happy. I mean, mania, people feel elevated, like elevated sense of self. Like I'm so good.

Look at me. But that's short lived. And it ends up the come down, kind of like you guys were, I guess you had an episode about cocaine recently, that come down, they feel that. So the depression almost always follows very quickly behind the mania. I know a person who's very clearly a narcissist, very clearly like proper, proper narcissist. And she also suffers from depression. That seems weird to me to think you're wonderful and then to still have depression. They commonly go together? They don't really think they're great. That's kind of the false belief around narcissists.

Narcissists are like good at what I would call puffer chesting where they're great that's the kind of the false belief around narcissists narcissists are like good at what i would call puffer chesting where they're like look at me i'm so good but inside they're like don't look too close like you can't handle it usually narcissism is born out of some intense trauma or you know could even just be the fact that it's never felt good enough in some way and so they put on this facade think Think of narcissism as a facade. It's a very dangerous facade and it hurts other people and it can be, but it really, I mean, it hurts other people a lot, but it also hurts the person who's doing it because they end up not having relationships. You know, people cut them out of their lives. They usually don't have relationships with their

children or their family because it's just too toxic. But yeah, that they could be depressed because they really don't feel good about themselves. They just pretend to. Right. I asked him what causes depression. He said it can be caused by genetics, nature and nurture, sometimes a chemical balance. Does that all sound right? Yeah. I mean, we talk a lot. People always say like a chemical imbalance, but we just know that there are a lot of neurotransmitters in your brain being like dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine that are all involved. I think glutamate is also part of it. But so a lot of different things in our brain affect our mood. And even especially women, we have monthly cycles of hormones. So progesterone, estrogen, testosterone, we've all heard of these, right? So we have high levels of progesterone make us feel good so there's a certain point like right

after a period where women usually feel pretty good and then it can kind of go down from there depending on how much you lose of the progesterone because estrogen can make us feel bad yay um so anyway they're truly what causes depression is a lot of things if you have a blood relative like one removed from you so like mom dad you know brother sister uh even grandparent you know if they're really close to you i think it increases your rate up i think it's like to 26 percent from let's say like eight percent or something so increase rate but then there's also things like we were learning i had it on both parents man yeah both parents had depression.

That's very normal. So in a way, the cards were stacked against you, but genetics alone don't cause it. You still have to have an initiating event, something that turns on that gene to make it active. Because I could have a schizophrenic gene right now in my body, but nothing has happened to trigger it. So it'll just be like, I don't know, I guess the best way is just like not turned on.

It'll be dormant. Yeah. It's just dormant in my body. And so there is that component, but we're learning more and more every day about depression. And what the newer research shows is that our brains just produce, if we are a depressed brain, it produces fewer neurotransmitters, which leads to a less developed hippocampus, which is responsible for memory, concentration. They also believe it can make our mood better. Also, our amygdala is affected, which is like our fight-flight response. And so, there's a lot of different parts of our brain that are either underdeveloped, not getting a certain amount of neurotransmitters.

And that doesn't mean we're stupid or anything. That's nothing to do with intelligence. It's more about like what parts are running the show and which ones are not running the show. And so, yeah, there's, there's just so much to it. We, we really don't, we don't know, because even if all of us had the same exact brain, our symptoms will be different. Yeah.

Do this head traumas give you depression like the nfl players and all that type of stuff it can yeah the concussions like when you have traumatic brain injury like tbis can cause a lot of different things but usually because your brain is like shaking around in your skull we have a lot of damage to our prefrontal cortex. And that is what organized thought, planning, and they call it our personality. I call it the adult part of your brain. It's the part that's like, you might not want to run across the street without looking both ways. That doesn't bode well for you. So they can act really impulsively.

And they can also be really aggressive. We find aggression to be kind of a side effect of that, but depression, I would assume as well, just because you probably don't feel like yourself. It's probably difficult to concentrate, put words together, which would make you, you know what I mean? You can see how that would lead to that. Cause a lot of ex NFL players have committed suicide famously. That was like terrible. Yeah.

Louise, can you edit like 10 seconds of puppies playing at this point into the podcast? Just lighten the mood. Yeah, just like 10 seconds and then we'll come back. I asked him if depression is considered a mental illness. He said, yes, I think that is. Yes. Yeah.

That's where you got one of your points. You did pretty good. Yeah, you did good. The difference between depression and sadness. i don't know if we really touched on that but yeah sadness is it's kind of like what jim said it's like it's short-lived it kind of comes and goes it can be definitely uh situational right and then depression like i'd said is is feeling sad most of the day for all day for like at least two weeks kind of so like most of your time is spent feeling sad yeah it's like when you have a relative die you don't go i'm going through depression that's sad

yeah bereavement it's grieving i feel like lately you hear a little bit more about like teenagers or younger people having depression and in i'm sure it existed forever but i never really heard of my friends being depressed when I was in high school. Do you think, I mean, I'm guessing- That's because they were all talking behind your back. That's probably true. They were all coming to me for advice, actually. But do you think social media is like a big catalyst for that? I can't imagine having gone through high school with social media. Social media has to contribute. It contributes to my depression. I'm hardly on it. I have other people doing it. I don't do it.

I don't like Jack sends me clips. Do you want to have this clip up? Do you want to have that clip up? And I'm like, I don't care. I don't want maybe that one or whatever. And since I got off social media, my depression has gotten way less. I know it has to be a catalyst. Yeah.

Yeah, it is. And there's still newer research. That's the thing that kind of sucks about people who do research is oftentimes they're like old fuddy-duddies and they're not. We're getting to the time. I mean, I'm 37. So I think my generation and around that time are getting into roles where they can do more of this and be more active about it. And what were my personal thoughts as someone who's on social media and definitely sees a correlation to Jim's point, like if I'm on it a lot, I'm like,

oh, you start to feel really terrible about yourself and your life. But it's that comparison factor. And the fact that normally when we grow up, like I grew up in a really small town in Washington State and most people's families made around the same amount of money, right? Because we had like our main businesses and most parents worked at one of those main businesses. And so therefore the people I was comparing myself to were people

who had the relatively the same amount of means and roughly the same education opportunities, right? So it's very balanced. Now I can look online and I'm like, that person's 18. Jesus Christ. How to own like a goddamn Louis Vuitton bag. Like I even know what that was. You know, there's like, it's so different now because I'm comparing myself to the world. And I think for children, that's very dangerous because then they don't have like a healthy baseline. Yeah. Cause I feel like that's that, that bit of social media depression sleep sneaks up on you. There's the easy stuff. Someone said I was shit or didn't like a nasty comment or whatever. You can read it and go, well, that would make me sad.

That's something nasty that someone's done about me. But you start looking at other comedians and you're like, oh, wait. And then you start looking at people. They're on holiday all the time. I'm never on bloody holiday. And then it just trickles up on you. It just chips away at you. It chips away at you.

It's never one single post. It's just the compilation of all of them together. And then you've got to remember that everybody is showing their best selves. The amount of people I fucking watched on social media where they're – what I hate on social media the most is couples that act like they're fucking or they're social and they're just like, my husband, number one, and they're all like this and they're riding bikes and they're doing fucking photos where they're jumping like, my husband, number one, and they're all like this, and they're riding bikes, and they're doing fucking photos where they're jumping at the same time

and something, you know what I mean, those cocksuckers, right? And then, like a year later, we're getting a divorce. I thought you were the happiest people in the world. I generally find the more people say something, the less true it is. Guys always talk about the girls. They're like, no, I'm super chill. Like I don't like drama. Like if she has to say that on the first date, run away.

Like if you're saying it out loud, it's probably not true. You just watch The Bachelorette. It's always the girl that's just like, I don't want drama. And then like causing drama all over the fucking shop. You know, I'm talking about Victoria. You got your buddy taken out last week. You're a pain in the ass you were Victoria I watched The Bachelor

if you haven't followed us on Instagram yet please do that IDCAT podcast but to your point for not using social media this is a PSA to anybody who messages the IDCAT podcast account with screenshots from a Jim Jeffries

account it's not Jim. He's not sending you messages. Please send me 2,000. You are my biggest fan. There's a whole lot of fake accounts of me where it's just like, so happy to have you as a fan. Fun, fun times ahead. It's like, when did you ever talk like that? You should make a fake one just for fun.

People write to me, is this you? And I go, no, but fun, fun times are ahead. We sort of touched on this. You already did and some of the other answers. But are there certain groups more at risk, like men or women or age or even? I might have got this one wrong. So let's see how we go here. Jim said slightly higher in men, peaks around 44.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, statistically speaking, because everybody's at risk, really. It doesn't, your mental illness doesn't care who you are, how old you are, any of that. But Jim, you were wrong. Women are twice as likely. Oh, shit. Because if you think about it, we're, think of postpartum depression.

Men, you know, we're the ones that birth babies and have that. But we're going to live with you and you bloody about it we're uh think of postpartum depression men you know we're the ones that birth babies and have that but we're gonna live with you and you bloody get it then we have our monthly hormone cycles also once again i'm standing around i'm getting yelled at for no apparent reason don't tell me that i haven't been in that war um and then also we enter puberty earlier than men so that tends to but yeah but you bloody brag about that as well oh god i remember being in school when you're like 16 and then like the other 16 year old girls were like no and like this and you're like we just develop faster than you and you're like all right that's

because that's what we're told growing up is like, well, you mature faster than boys. Like that's, that's our like crowning achievement as little girls. Cause that's what people always tell us. And so that's what we do. You're really braggy about it in high school. I was happy about not maturing. I was like, let's go. I still, you haven't, you haven't, wait till puberty hits my friend. Jack's body is changing as we speak. You're going to have some questions when you look down.

I'm really excited for my voice to get deeper. Me and Jack were in the locker room the other day and he wouldn't get changed. I don't need to wear deodorant. I don't stink. And is there an age thing too with depression? Or that doesn't, it's any age. And because I asked children and Jim said, yeah,

children are going to be depressed too. I read this thing about 44. Very recently I read this because I'm about to turn 44 and I'm like, yeah, good. Getting my prime. Well, there can be, it doesn't really matter, but there are statistics around like uh whether it's women going into menopause there's another shift in our hormones as well as men as we you

know as as people get older there can be shifts as well as kind of like what you're saying jim when you said that was like well i thought i would do all of this and i didn't so there can be that kind of thing too um but yeah children can have have depression as well. So again, it doesn't discriminate. Okay. Remember the field piece we did for the Jeffrey show? It was the Korean suicide episode. Yeah, happy dying. They had all the

societal standards that no one was living up to. That's why suicide rates were so high in Korea. Yeah, in Korea, because you were meant to get married by a certain age. You were meant to have this. You were meant to have a house by a certain age. All that type of stuff. I had depression because I got all those things and then they didn't make me happy. Surprise, surprise, surprise. It doesn't make life better.

I've said it before, maybe on this podcast or other one. I always remember this. When you got to play Carnegie Hall and I was at your house and you're like, I'm playing Carnegie Hall. And literally two or three seconds went by and you're like, yeah, now what? I was like, okay. I haven't played in a second, though.

Yeah, I know. You didn't even enjoy it, though. At that moment, you weren't enjoying it. I was like, you should be relishing this. There's plenty of time to feel bad. Yeah, I try to smell the roses. I make like, you should be relishing this. There's plenty of time to feel bad. I try to smell the roses. I make a conscious effort sometimes to smell the roses sometimes.

Yeah. But it's easier said than done. They got thorns. You know what brings me happiness? Doing nothing. I found out the secret to my happiness. It's not family. It's not possessions. It's not career.

Doing nothing is my sweet spot. And being alone. Oh, look, and I watched my mother sit in a chair for 40 years and not move and just watch TV. And I remember thinking, what a sad life she had. And now I'm like, nailed it, mum, nailed it. So true. She saw all the Agatha Christie's

she was watching shit all day watching Deal or No Deal every day so like how is it treated what types of things can people do in their own life to help depression, Jim said therapy, antidepressants anti-anxiety drugs

but yeah but like what I know those are things exercise is a big one getting more sun because of the serotonin from the sun anxiety drugs but yeah but like what i i know those are things exercise is a big one exercise getting more sun because of the serotonin from the sun yeah um uh stop killing people unless it makes you happy yeah and keep it up yeah you know um no there's a lot we can do and we did forget seasonal affective disorder when you said getting the sun i'm like yeah that's another depression at the peak of my, I was taking drugs all the time

and I was living in London. And then in the winter, I would go to sleep before the sun came up and I'd wake up after it had gone down. And that was my pattern for like a long time. And I couldn't figure out why I was depressed. Yeah, we're really affected by that. So, yeah, the things, obviously, Jim, you nailed those things like therapy, medication can be really beneficial for people. But then there's just obviously the exercise getting sun on your face. But a big one is truthfully noticing the thoughts that you have, and not taking your We let these things just live in our brain. We tell ourselves things over and over and over again until we're like, yes, I am a shit person. Look at that or whatever we believe. I'm a lazy sack,

whatever we try to say. We've said it so many times that we believe it. And so if we can just pay attention to those things and it's not about like, I'm not a proponent, like a person who believes in like positive, just think positive smile. You'll feel better. better i mean maybe not really what actually happens is or what actually works is what i call like bridge statements like you're building a bridge from you know dumpster fire to like i don't know puppy dogs and ice cream island like a better place happier place right so the thoughts instead of like i'm a trash person in a lazy sack would be like it's possible that i'm not as bad as i think i am yeah i i had

a friend who who when she was younger uh used to be a bit of a cutter right she's a 45 year old lady now but um but she she had a few cut marks and i was quite a successful person and and i i asked her i said i said why why do you do that why did ever do that? Because I've never self-harmed, you know. And, you know, maybe I've drunk myself into a stupor and I've done things, that type of self-harm, you know what I mean, but not a physical cut, you know. And she said it's because just what you were saying, she had those thoughts that, see, I'm a bad person,

see, I'm a bad person, see, I'm a bad person. If she cut herself, she'd go, see, there you go. You're a fucking idiot. You just cut yourself. It gave her the excuse to be depressed because she couldn't even find a reason. So she needed something. Yeah. Is that, does that make sense? Did I say that? Totally. I mean, people self-injury is like a way to cope with how they feel, right? So for her, it was validation. I've had a lot of patients who felt like they were abused as children and no one ever validated that or offered to help them.

And so they can feel like I have so much pain, but nobody will see it here. Here's the pain. I'm showing it to you. I'm showing it to myself. I know it exists. And it's like a physical manifestation of what's happening inside. Right. To that point too, I think even just validating your own feelings, like when I'm feeling those

things, I try not to judge myself too much for being in a dark place. Like so often your first impulse is to fight that and try to get out of it. And you're judging yourself the whole time where I just kind of like sit in the moment and go, all right, this is a feeling I'm having, whatever, we'll deal with it. And the less I judge myself for those thoughts, the faster I'm able to recover from them. Totally. Yeah. Cause that judgment just like compounding for those thoughts, the faster I'm able to recover from them. Totally. Yeah. Cause that judgment just like compounding the shitty thoughts.

Yeah. Right. Definitely. Yeah. It's all right. I find as well with depressions, the thing is like the worst thoughts. What if this happens?

What if this happens? My life will be over. And I tell her that. And now I'm like, no matter how extreme the event that happens, I'll be okay. Totally. Right. I'll be okay. Totally. I'll be okay.

Something will be okay. You know what I mean? So it's tough. That is the perk of having chronic depression. You're having it for a long time because you go through enough of those lows that at least when you get to the low, like when I get to the lows now, I go, this sucks right now, but I will be fine. And the first couple of times it doesn't,

it feels like you're drowning and you're never going to get out of it. But it definitely has helped to go through it a few times and be like, you know what? I'm always fucking fine. Yeah, you have the experience, right? You can be like, it didn't kill me last time. It won't kill me this time.

Or, you know, it did get better. I have proof. And I think that's kind of what we have to lean into and why we have to challenge those thoughts. Because we're like, I actually don't have any facts to support this. I'm just thinking this. So let's, you know, let's see how this plays out because chances are it'll be okay.

Not me. I'm perfect. Can it be cured? Jim said, yeah, well you can have it and it stops it. It can't be cured. I mean, you can manage it and you just got to always be mindful that it could come back. I don't think there's a, have you ever said to anyone you're cured? No, no. I think the more we can compare our mental health to physical health, the better we'll be because you think of like, oh, I caught a cold.

Okay. I kept so sometimes, sometimes it turns into bronchitis or I'll get strep throat and I'm never going to be cured from that, but it can be treated. So it doesn't affect my daily, like daily life. I can do what I need to do. Mental health is just the same. So like, oh, okay. Maybe I am more predisposed for depression.

I've had these episodes in my life. I can find tools and resources, whether it's medication therapy, a change of job, more friends, support, whatever. I have these things that make me feel better. It doesn't affect me anymore. But if I don't take care of myself, I can feel it come back again. It's just managing it. Yeah, I, but back when we used to do standup comedy,

I was working on this joke, something that I actually saw. And it's like, we don't, we always say mental health. And then for everything else, we're like health. And it's like, it's weird. And I know you make that distinction, but I feel like people still have that line they draw where they're like it's all health they don't take it as seriously as physical health yeah and i was doing a joke about something i'd seen where

like this woman had twisted her ankle stepped on a sidewalk and people were helping her and this guy came up that i don't know if he was home or not but he was mentally ill because he came up galloping on an imaginary horse and said said to throw her on and he'd take him to hospital and then everyone yelled at him to get away from her. And I was like, yeah, that guy's like injured too. It's like, but everyone's like, fuck you guy. And everyone's like, go eat some dirt or something, you know? And it was like, and it's just so we still as a society, I think we don't really connect those.

You could call out of work for the flu, but you rarely do you find a boss that will let you call out of work for mental health issues? Like I'm having suicidal ideations today. I can't come into work and it should be taken as seriously as your physical health. But I wonder how long it's going to take us to get to that point where it's recognized in that way.

I know. I mean, we're getting there. I will tell you like in the nine years I've been online, like it's gone from nobody talking about it to, it feels like pretty much everybody's talking about it, but the shifts in our society is going to take a little longer. I know a lot of companies now offer mental health days and you can just take a mental health day and they're like kind of part of your sick days. But I do think the conversation needs

to change because I really like that example. Like this person tripped on the sidewalk and here's a person who's floridly psychotic. clearly they both need assistance. And I don't know why we think that we can just like tough through it when it comes to our brain because our brain is like the hard drive that runs our body. So like that's doesn't at the most. All she did was sprain her ankle. This guy is riding an invisible horse.

He could ride his invisible horse right in the traffic. Also maybe he'll carry her to the hospital. Let him drive. I always think maybe I'm crazy and he's the only one who's rational what if there is a horse I never pull out of that thing

maybe I'm not seeing the horse I'm fucking crazy and here's something that also when someone does kill themselves and this is the thing on social media now everyone's always like yeah hey everybody and themselves and this is the thing on social media now, everyone's always like, yeah, Hey everybody. Uh, and I think this is good. So it's kind of like this 50, 50 where people are like, Hey,

if you know somebody that's feeling bad, make sure you, you know, look out for them or call this number. But I feel like there's a lot of that like grandstanding after something and people don't really, I've had a couple of people in my life that over the last year I have checked in on them more than I would have if not for 2020. I do just drop them a line on social media or send them a text and check in on them, you know.

Right. So I do think that people are a little bit more in tune for that now. Yeah. But I do think you should check on your friends and i think you should always check them too when we were on the trip the last trip we did and we were going through europe yeah and um my mom had passed away like uh three months before that your mom passed away that summer too but i was still just like really in this malaise kind of thing and i was angry and then i was i was sad but i was also depressed i was like the

whole thing and i felt really shitty on that trip, but I was happy to be going there. And it was like, the first couple of weeks of that trip, I was having fun and doing stuff, but I'd thrown a phone at Amos' leg and broke it on it. I had yelled at someone. We were with this guy, Shandy, who's toured us many times, who I'm good friends with.

And I shoved him in the airport. And then when I got on the plane, I almost got kicked off it. was like fuck this airline I was in a bad state and we had gotten to Glasgow and I remember I got I was talking on the phone we had checked on the hotel and you just said to me not a mean way you just said hey Forrest you really like you know like you're you were you kind of checked me in a certain way not in a mean way you were just like it was almost like are you okay like you need to kind of like blah, blah, blah. And it made me feel better that like you had recognized that.

And I changed after that. I think it was just like, I'll pay you for the whole trip and all that type of stuff. If you need to go home because you're not happy right now and all that type of stuff. No, but it meant a lot. I was like, yeah, okay. But you fell over in a puddle. And we were all drunk. We were in Prague and you fell over in a puddle and we were all drunk. We were in Prague and you fell over in a puddle and you finally

and Amos was super, we were all drunk and we were all laughing and I could tell you were in a bad mood. So I'd already stopped laughing. But I was also trying to make a, I was also going to make a point and another thing and I slipped in a puddle. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You were giving a speech. You were being quite righteous as you fucking flipped

and bang, hit the ground. Amos was laughing, and I knew to stop because I could see your eyes. Amos continued laughing. So you were going to get up to hit him or something, but you were just laying in a puddle. I couldn't move. I was hurt.

You couldn't move. You were too hurt. You threw your $1,000 photo at him. Let's shatter it. And smashed him. Got him. Got him. By the way, Amos had a bad knee already. He was with a cane. photo and he let's shatter it and smashed it got him got him by the way

Amos had a bad knee already he was on he was with a cane so I was like he got a good leg he had a bad leg through the

leg and then he was like and then you're like did you find that funny was that funny and they're like

it was it was really funny so we were all trying not to laugh going no it's not funny

to Amos' credit he was hurt and he still said something like, I should have been like a bowler in cricket. He goes, you got a good arm there. I was walking him home to keep you two separated and we were going down the road. I took an Uber.

I couldn't walk. And he was still laughing and I was like, you can laugh. You can laugh when he can't hear you anymore. We'll both laugh in a minute. Laugh when he can't hear you anymore. Just keep the, we'll both laugh in a minute. But I think it is important for you to check on your friends and check them sometimes too, like just to make sure that, you know, like that kind of thing.

Yeah. I mean, a lot of people, a lot of people, especially after somebody commits suicide, they're like, well, they never reached out. And it's like the depressed person is rarely going to be the person that reaches out. Like I never want to be a burden. I text one friend usually if I'm ever depressed and it's my best friend, Colleen, and I'll just be like, Hey, I'm having real bad thoughts. And she just goes, Hey, don't do that. And that's all, that's all I need from her is just to, to have that check-in. But I don't want to dump my problems on people or my sadness.

Like that makes me sad thinking about burdening somebody yeah i feel like i've at times had a few people that i've lent on and i sometimes worry that i lean on them too much right and that i'm bothering them and then you know so yeah that's that's not a good way to do it either you have to start worrying about that so every once in a while check in and actually meet it when you check in member or something a family member or something. Go see a doctor. And also, no, you don't have to know what to say. You know, I think a lot of people feel like, oh, I have to be able to fix it. No, no, no, no.

It's actually better if you don't try. It's honestly helpful if you just, like you said, like it's just a simple thing your friend says, right? Don't do that. Yeah. Isn't it true that men and women, like men try to fix things and arguments and women just want to be heard or something like that? I find that the most frustrating thing in our whole fucking society. Why are you, you've just,

I've just given you a solution. You don't want it. Now I'm in trouble for mansplaining. What the fuck did I do wrong? A solution is invalidating. It's, it's like, oh, you could just fix this. It doesn't feel a lot of times for people, especially women, we like to be heard first. Like sometimes I'll tell my husband, I'm like, you can have a solution. I'm not ready for it yet. Like right now, I just want you to hear me out. And then maybe tomorrow I'll be up for a solution. You know, sometimes you need to be validated first where you're like, yeah, that was horrible. Or I'm sorry, you're feeling that way or anything like that. So when you check in on people, you can just, I can feel the resistance, but it's okay.

I like what you said there better. Like, like maybe you'll be ready for a solution later. That's that at least makes them a little bit more. Yeah, I agree with that. Like I have, I have the same problem with, I don't, I've stopped giving people solutions, but I know when the few times I have vented and people are like, oh, you should do X, Y, and Z. I'm like, that's not what I'm looking for right now. I will tell them I'm not looking for a solution.

I just want somebody to tell me this sucks. If you get the solution too quickly, it's like, well, then what the fuck are you upset about? You could fix it this easily. And you're like, no, no, no. I just want to be upset for a second because somebody wronged me. Just listen.

But the few times I get to vent, just listen. I don't take advantage of this often. Just fucking listen to me. Just listen, please. Yeah, sometimes we just need a tantrum, right? That person was a jackass. I need to express that. And then maybe tomorrow or later today or whatever,

depending on what it is, then maybe we can talk about solutions. But yeah, I think that's, that's the thing that people worry about is like, Oh, I need to have something to tell them. And it's like, no, a lot of people would just want someone to just show up and be like, Hey, I'm going to, I mean, no with COVID things are a little tricky, but if they're in your, you know, safe for you to see them see them like sometimes just showing up with like takeout and like hey let's just watch the netflix it's like all people need this is this is a thing that they reckon happened after the quarantine ended that they just found bodies everywhere like people had killed their

wives and husbands and stuff like that because people like when that when they're in the deep quarantine right when people were like, you know when we first started and we weren't leaving our houses and we were all like that type of stuff, someone has to go missing for like 48 hours before they can call the cops. Yeah. And now it's just like, no, she doesn't want to get on the phone. I didn't think about that at the beginning. I'm like, if I die in my apartment, nobody will know for weeks.

The cops were literally like, there's been no murders for three weeks. Oh, there has been. They just haven't been reported yet. They're coming. They don't stink yet. The body's done stink. Nobody's found them yet. Yeah.

I know that was off the topic a bit, but that was playing on me mind. Let's throw some more puppies in there, Louise. All right, here's the part of the show called Dinner Party Facts where we ask our expert to give us some facts or something interesting for our listeners and viewers to have at home so they can say they know something about this topic or something. Gotcha. Yeah. One of my favorite, like, fun to know facts is why it's so easy to remember the bad things and so easy to negate the good. Neurologically, like our brain is programmed

to seek out threat, which if you think about makes a lot of sense, right? It's always assessing our environment for threats to our safety. But because we're not cave people anymore, and the threats aren't like a bear wrestling in the bushes, the threats are usually emotional, right? We find things online, we read it one nasty comment, even though there's 500 good ones. And we're like, that son of a, all we can think about and And we can like verbatim, remember all the nasty things. It's because our brain is programmed to do that, to be like, that person's a threat. All of these nice ones aren't. And I always find that really interesting because people, you know, people are like, why is it so easy to remember the bad things? Why don't I remember

the good things? That's why. I was had that conversation with Jack last night. Is that similar to, I was saying this to Forrest just the other day, that loss is more powerful than gain. So like if you find $5 you're excited, but if you lose $5 and you can't find it in any pocket, you're pissed off about it all day. You know what I mean?

Or if someone dies in your life, it's devastating. Baby's born. It's nice. I'll go see it. It's not threatening. It's not harming you emotionally, right? Good stuff doesn't take from you. Yeah. That's really good to know just in case wherever,

like, cause I think we all do that. Jack was talking to me. Jack got 30 really nice comments about something he did on the podcast last week. And there was one that wasn't even mean. It was just like vague, vaguely not positive. And he's like,

I don't know why I keep looking at that one. I was like, people fucking love it. I fucking had spelling mistakes in that comment. Always. Always. I was surprised by the grammar. It's funny.

Sometimes when we do, when we, we talked to you in the pre-interview, we know the dinner party facts. We did not know that one. And that one's so pertinent to all of us. Yes, it's so accurate to what we go through. Fucking caveman.

Always going back to the bloody caveman. Well, thank you very much for being on the podcast. We appreciate it. I know our listeners will enjoy this one. And if you are depressed, reach out to someone. Let me just say one more time. Her podcast is called Ask Katie Anything. That's K-A-T-I.

And her YouTube channel is Katie Morton. Her Instagram and Twitter is at Katie Morton. And her book is Are You Okay? A Guide to Caring for Mental Health. And then what's the one coming out in September? It's called Traumatized. Hmm. Hmm.

All right. It's all Traumatized. Hmm. Hmm. All right. Perfect. It's all about trauma. It's kind of ironic and sad at the same time because we put the proposal together like pre COVID and then we had to like completely rework it because you know, we've all essentially suffered a trauma this last year. And so having to integrate that was, was, was tricky, but it was also weird to write it as I feel like I'm going through it myself. So yeah, it's called Traumatized.

It'll be out September, 2021. Yeah, so follow her on Instagram or Twitter or listen to the podcast or YouTube and you'll know when the book's coming out. Well, that's our podcast, ladies and gentlemen. If you're ever at a party and someone comes up to you and goes, I've been sad for five minutes. I think I'm depressed.

Go, well, I don't know about that.