I Don't Know About That - DMT and Ayahuasca

Episode Date: May 21, 2024

DMT and Ayahuasca? What’s the difference? What are they? Jim couldn’t even fake his way through these questions. Good thing our podcast shaman Professor David Nutt was here to guide Jim his Ayahuasca journey. IDKAT Live Show on May 21 @ 8pm in Los Angeles: https://www.flapperscomedy.com/shows/jim-jefferies-live-podcast-taping/69867/ BIO: Prof. David Nutt is the Founder of Drug Science and the Edmund J Safra Professor of Neuropsychopharmacology. He serves as the Head of the Neuropsychopharmacology Unit in the Centre for Academic Psychiatry within the Division of Brain Sciences, Department of Medicine, at Hammersmith Hospital, Imperial College London. He has also chaired the UK Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs. For over twenty-five years, Prof Nutt has served as the editor of the Journal of Psychopharmacology, and he acts as a psychiatry drugs advisor to the British National Formulary. He has written over 500 original research papers and 31 books. Notably, his book for the general public, 'Drugs Without the Hot Air' , earned him the Transmission book prize in 2014 for Communication of Ideas. Twitter: @ProfDavidNutt The Drug Science Podcast - https://www.drugscience.org.uk/podcast ADS: LITTER ROBOT: As a special offer to listeners of the show, go to http://stopscooping.com/IDKAT and enter promocode IDKAT to save an EXTRA $50 on any Litter-Robot bundle.  LECTRIC eBIKES: Get your adventure started at http:/www.LectricEbikes.com. And please mention that I Don't Know About That With Jim Jefferies sent you in the post-checkout survey! BETTERHELP: Visit http://www.BetterHelp.com/IDK today to get 10% off your first month. CHAPTERS: 0:00 — Ads 2:20 — Theme Song 12:27 — Judging a Book by It’s Cover 14:37 — David Nutt Introduction 18:35 — Questions 24:08 — Jim’s Ayahuasca Diet 26:55 — Ads 38:47 — Grading 39:43 — Answers 44:28 — The Great Tradition 50:30 — How Old Is Too Old? 1:13:25 — Australian Ayahuasca Guide 1:14:33 — Dinner Party Fact

They say AI has taken over the world. Chatbots for this, virtual assistants for that, and eventually humans are going to be obsolete. I'm not saying I'm looking forward to that, but there's one robot that already exists and it's making my life and my cat's life better. Litter Robot. I can't say enough about this product.

As a special offer to our listeners of the show go to stop scooping.com slash idakat idkat and enter the pro idakat to save an extra 50 off any litter robot bundle that's an extra 50 off anyitter Robot bundle at stopscooping.com and enter the promo code IDACAT. The spring is here. Get out there, enjoy the weather, and recapture the magic of riding a bike with an electric e-bike with an amazing variety of models built for riders of all abilities it's never been

easier to fall in love with riding again go full throttle into spring with electric e-bikes the number one selling e-bikes in the nation get your adventure started at electric e-bikes.com and please mention the i don't know about that podcast with jim jeffries when they send you the survey at the end say yeah did you find out about the electric e-box yeah jim jeffries told me both in person and on his podcast because i'm getting around in the streets that's electric l-e-c-t-R-I-C, ebikes.com. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. We all carry around different stresses, big and small. We all keep them bottled up,

and it can start to affect us negatively. To tell the lead team. Therapy is a safe space to get things off your chest and figure out how to work things out, whatever's weighing you down. Go to therapy. Get it off your chest with betterhelp.com. Visit betterhelp.com slash idk today

to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash I-D-K. Seasons. The ones that are hot and cold and then the ones that you put on food or that seasoning yeah you might find out i don't know about that with jim jeffries a little bit out of practice well the seasoning how's that called. How is that called seasoning? Why is it called seasoning? And then you've got the seasons.

What's the correlation? Sometimes there's words that mean different things that are the same. Just make up a new word. So now the seasons aren't called that. They're called. Oh, you're changing the seasons. Zucadukes. Zucadukes?

Wait, wait. Zucadukes is like fall, summer, winter? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I thought zucadukes. Zucadukes? Wait, wait. Zucadukes is like fall, summer, winter? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I thought Zucadukes would be what you put on steak or something. No, no, that's still going to be seasoning. That's seasoning. Because that makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense.

I think there's been too many songs written about seasons. We used to have longer Zucadukes back in the day. You could really tell the difference. In LA, you don't see any Zucadukes. Now with global warming, Zucadukes. Now with global warming, Zucadukes are very erratic. Yeah. Too many songs

are in about seasons. Zucadukes doesn't go in a song. That's why if you're at a restaurant, you're like, can I get a little bit extra Zucaduke on the side?

No, because then it makes it sound like it's Middle Eastern food and Americans will balk at that. Zucaduke sounds Middle Eastern. Zucadook.

Wow. Like that accent, yeah. I got to know Zookadook to feed the whole family. Zookadook sounds pretty good. Zookadook. Couscous? Couscous with a bit of touch

of Zookadook. A touch. A touch of Zookadook on your tahini. Exactly. That was not a chef's kiss. That was just a regular kiss. I didn't bring my hand up. You didn't bring your tahini. Exactly. That was not a chef's kiss. That was just a regular kiss. I didn't bring my hand up.

You didn't bring your hand up. Like, I imagine that must be hard for like people, amputees, to do the French kiss thing. And there you go. And I'll tell you

what I thought of that meal. Quadriplegics trying to do a chef's kiss. We just did some shows last week. They were fun. We did some shows. I'm back from the movie. I'm trying to- We just got back from Florida and South Carolina.

It was fun. Yeah, and we did Florida and South Carolina. Those gigs were bangers. Great. They were both bangers. Great gigs. And like Charleston, I thought,

oh, Charleston, they were one of the best audiences. I'd put them in my top 20 audiences of all time. They're really good. They're really good. And so was Fort Lauderdale.

Fort Lauderdale was a banger. They were all good, really receptive audiences. And I think also because I've been doing the movie for six weeks, I was, I was,

it felt like I'd never told these jokes before you know with that excitement of new jokes and i'm like oh they're the jokes i've told for a while but i was like oh wow new jokes uh next week oh first of all uh to tonight tonight tonight tonight you're in the la area we're doing a live podcast of flappers at 8 o'clock. Is this, because we're recording this on Monday, are we doing one tomorrow?

We are. We're doing three podcasts this week. All right. You're welcome, audience. We've got to catch up. I'll be there. Well, there's only releasing

one per week. I know. But tomorrow, or tonight, at Flappers at 8 o'clock, we're doing a live podcast. Flappers. So if you're in the LA area,

come out to it. People are going really enjoy it. The Comedy Club was named after a large woman with a big vagina who used to run with a gated sort of stance. That's where it came from. What, flappers? Yeah. Oh, I didn't know that.

I thought it was the dress. No, misconception. Nope, nope, nope. They should have that up there. Big vaginated woman who runs with her legs wired like a frilled neck lizard and then she goes she runs along wow rippling in the wind

that's why it's called farmers the more you know come out and bring your pictures of your own vagina edit that out. No, keep it up. It's dated.

You don't have to bring your pictures. Just bring your own vagina and we'll have a flap off. Wow, I don't think we can just have everyone showing that. We'll have a flap off. It'll be like when they give you a promotional material at a post-season NBA game so you can make a lot of noise. Yeah. Post-Sukaduk uh post-sukaduk

if we don't make the change yeah yeah if we don't start it here it'd be a long fucking baseball sukaduk this year how do you spell sukaduk s-e-a wait S I'm looking at Z for sure Zook I was spelling seasons I thought you were going to at least do an X maybe X could be ZookaDook silent sons

no because you know Z like the guy he just won the PGA championship Xander is an X so you could go X or Z

I didn't watch it alright well didn't watch it so you have gigs coming up in San Francisco that's where I left my heart I'm going back to get it May 30th.

Go pick that up at the pawn shop. You're hurt. They have Zooka Dukes like all fuck up there, don't they? They do. And then you are going on a tour in Australia. Do-do-do-do-do-do-do. I thought you were offended when people do that. That doesn't bother me.

I'm going to throw another shrimp on the barbie. Now, we don't call prawns shrimp. When I said that, I actually meant a very short person. Do you call them barbies? Yeah, no, we call them barbie. So just the shrimp part was wrong. We call them barbecues, barbies. Margot Robbie is from Australia.

Yeah. She's barbie. Yeah. She's Barbie. Just throw it on her. And then if I was to throw... Throw it on a flapper. If I was to throw my small penis on Margot Robbie, that would literally be throwing a shrimp on the Barbie. I'm not going to do that.

I respect that. You're safe around me, Margot. So go to jimdrefferees.com. There's a whole bunch of shows in australia and then after that you will be on tour with jimmy car the charm offensive tour we're going to be doing the charm offensive tour all across canada all those shows are over 50 sold already and they're like 10 000 seaters so and and you also have you have shows on your own too detroit milwaukee but you're also going to be doing some shows with Mark Norman and Dan Soder as well.

In December, I'm going to be playing Los Angeles at the Ace Theater because that got moved, but that's where it's landing. It's not moving. Come and see me in L.A. I'm only doing one theater show this year in L.A. That's where you're going to see me. But let's mention those Dan Soder gigs and Mark Norman. Yeah, yeah, you're going to be with Mark Norman and Dan Soder.

It looks like St. Louis and Atlanta I see so far. I've got to give a shout-out to those two lads. Both of them signed on quick to do that, and so I feel like a bit of a fraud saying they're my shows. These are triple headline shows. Yeah. These are triple headline shows. Yeah. These are triple headline shows that I'm doing

with Mark Norman and Dan Soder and I couldn't be more honored to be on stage with these two lads. It looks like St. Louis and Atlanta. St. Louis, Atlanta

and I want to say... Connecticut at the casino. Oh, at Foxwoods. Yeah, we're going to do Foxwoods. Yeah, Foxwoods Casino. It doesn't say it on there yet, but the other two are listed on your website.

But anyways, just go to jimdeffries.com and there's so many shows on there you can check out. Go to our live podcast. Loads of dates just added. So see if I'm coming to attend to you. Oh, and if you're in Vegas, I will be there next week. I will be at the Comedy Cellar May 27th until June 2nd. There's two shows a night.

It's a really fun place to see comedy there so I'll be there all week and then I will be in San Francisco myself at the Punchline, the Sacramento Punchline I just announced shows in Tampa at SideSplitters I got a whole bunch of shows, you go to 4sha.net and you have a show on Wednesday tomorrow, oh thanks for reminding me

if you're in the LA area as well, after you go to the live podcast go to the improv at the Shawsome show, it's the Shawsham show. It's the initial Shawsham show with Forrest Shaw. The Doohickeys are going to be on it. A lot of other good comics. Maybe another comic that's here. Who knows?

Did I say yes to that? Yeah, you're going to be there. I'm going to see my family. I've been away for a while. I'm going to get in trouble doing live podcasts and this. You weren't on the bill, but you are expected to be there and you can come and go i'm expected well i'd like you to be since you told me what but you can come and go as quickly as you want and i'll put you up and you

i'm in a bit of family trouble at the moment for not being present very much to the movie and everything and now we're doing like oh god i've got a lot of things to tell the wife um and here's another one hey if you like hey hey if you want to see me in vegas this august the gigs are cancelled uh it's not my fault the mirage casino has uh shut down they were meant to shut down they were meant to shut down in segments and the gigs were meant to be happening and i had all these gigs booked with them so i'm not over the moon about it either um but if you got tickets i would ring up and get a refund on those because um and and mind you if you're seeing any comedian in the aces of comedy because there's a different comedian there every weekend uh i would check on that because july 7th is when mirage closes officially yeah well my shows were in i know in August. I know what I'm saying, but before you tell people

that it might be canceled, there might be some shows before then that still go off. I would check. I'm assuming you will be somewhere else in Vegas in the near future, though. Yes, yes, yes. We will find a new home in Vegas and a new place to perform. That's no problem.

Me and Vegas, we're in Simpatico. Yeah, which means? in Vegas when Simpatico yeah which means means that that that

whatever the season or the Zooka Duke Zooka Duke whatever the Zooka Duke I'll be there okay

which is normally just hot IDCat podcast and Instagram go there too now let's welcome our guest Dr. David Nutt

G'day Dr. David Nutt now let's welcome our guest dr david nutt g'day dr david nutt now it's time to play yes though yes though yes though yes though judging a book by its cover all right uh uh doctor i i can see well first of all dr nutt if you're not if he said you can call him dave if if you're not a fertility, you're missing a beat there right now. But we're going to have a look around. Whether this is what you are a doctor in or not, you seem to have a healthy interest in alcohol, cannabis, things that may – psychedelics I can see on the wall.

You are into brain bending things. Is that what we're going to talk about today? Getting wasted? Or the medical term? Inebriated. Inebriated. A little bit. What do you think

Dave I mean I wouldn't say getting wasted it's not what we're talking about no much more insightful

than that oh specific it's a specific topic we're gonna talk about you're on the right track though yeah you're on the right track though right so

I think we've done the effects of mushrooms haven't we yeah we've done the effects of alcohol yeah we saw that first hand yes and we we mushrooms. We've done the effects of alcohol. Yeah, we saw that firsthand.

Yes, and we've done... We did marijuana. Surely we've done marijuana. We did, yeah. Can't remember. Yeah, so you're on the right track. It's a two-parter, but they're closely related, I believe. I don't know enough about them.

So what? I'm going to say LSD. You're getting close. I would say think about what another people in la like to do that that's oh lie yes we're talking about lying and being a bunch of frauds um no people will travel out to joshua tree oh ayahuasca yeah we're going to be talking about DMT and ayahuasca today. Okay, ayahuasca is a very newish thing to me. Yeah, you don't just get to go off. I've got to introduce him first.

Oh, no, but okay. I haven't done it. I haven't done it. Think about what you're going to say. Professor David Nutt is the founder of drug science and the Edmund J. Safra Professor of Neuropsychopharmacology. He serves as the head of the neuropsychopharmacology, I don't want to say that word anymore, it's too hard, unit in the Center for Academic Psychiatry within the Division of Brain Sciences, Department of

Medicine at Hammersmith Hospital, Imperial College, London. He has also chaired the UK Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs. And for over 25 years, Professor Nutt has served as the editor of the Journal of Psychopharmacology, and he acts as a psychiatry drugs advisor to the british national formulary he has written over 500 original research papers and 31 books notably his book for the general public drugs without the hot air earned him the transmission book prize in 2014 for communication of ideas he has a podcast the drug Podcast, which is very interesting, great podcast. Everyone should listen to that. We have links to that, and it's The Drug Science Podcast

wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you, Dave, for being here. Do you want to expound a little bit? How did you get into this field of neuropsychopharmacology? I know. Okay, yeah, well, I'm a psychiatrist, was a neurologist. So, the field is the study of drugs in the brain. And I use drugs to study the brain because the brain is a chemical organ. The key information transfer in the brain is through chemicals we call

neurotransmitters and We study those we have to use molecules which are like them which we call drugs and I suppose my claim to fame Which is another thing so you can use as a dinner party if you want because I have another one at the end for you But as is this one up front is that I've probably given more different kinds of drugs to human beings than anyone else ever, probably. Oh, I knew a bloke in Camden back in the day. But he didn't publish papers on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he only really gave the one type of drug.

His variety wasn't much. I'm sure it was cut with a million things um so different types of drugs too that's what you're saying yeah yes i mean i think we've given every class of illegal drug to human beings with the exception so far of salvia that's the one we haven't yet studied what's salvia never heard of salvia and where can i get it miami we what's salvia it's like i i'll defer to him i i think we did something when i was younger i think it's like you smoke it it's like a leaf but you smoke it you get a very it's called salvia divinorum but most people

they do it once because the trip is so unpleasant they don't want to repeat it yeah that's the thing that's the thing with drugs is I've never done LSD. No? No, it's one of the ones that I just never did. I never did LSD because I've done mushrooms, obviously weed and cocaine and alcohol and all that type of stuff, and ecstasy and MDMA and ketamine. Anyway, the list goes on, right? Ones that make you stay on right ones that make you stay awake ones that make you

go asleep all the stuff down there i never dmt or ayahuasca no yeah no i haven't done either of them either i hear ayahuasca you start crying and vomiting and shit i don't like vomiting i don't like crying well those are the questions we'll be asking so yeah but i don't quite know what it does but i wouldn't want to go into a dark place with, those are the questions we'll be asking. Yeah, but I don't quite know what it does. But I wouldn't want to go into a dark place with that one. Well, we'll learn about it today. We'll see. Maybe you'll end up doing it.

So this is what I'm going to do, Dave. I'm going to ask Jim a series of questions on DMT and ayahuasca. At the end of those answers, you're going to grade him on his accuracy, zero through 10. Jack over here is going to grade him on his confidence, zero through 10. I'm going to grade him on how hungry I am, zero through 10. And we'll add those scores together. 21 through 30, ayahuasca.

11 through 20, ayahuasca. 0 through 10, ayahuasca. Very creative. Wrote those two minutes ago. Ayahuasca. First question, Jim. What does DMT stand for? It's DMT.

It's dynamite. DMT. It's dynamite. DMT. Drugs make tasty. Yep. Nailed it. Where in nature can DMT be found? In Mexico. More specific, maybe like a plant or something?

In the outback of Mexico. Okay specific, maybe like a plant or something? In the outback of Mexico. Okay. The fields. It'll be in cactus, probably. I don't know. Okay. There's a good guess.

Can you explain what a, quote, breakthrough experience is in the context of DMT use? People start to go that they started to see their life in different ways like they started to understand and get empathy for i had a person who went very very traumatic divorce and a friend who had a through a very traumatic divorce and he said that whilst doing the drug was the only time that he actually saw it from her point of view and so that really helped even though she was in the wrong and she left him and she cheated and blah blah blah but he started to see uh maybe how it happened a bit better empathetic yeah okay yeah what is the relationship between dmt and serotonin uh serotonin which is a great name for a drag queen um

everybody that's done drugs knows the word serotonin but they're like yeah it's all about serotonin like yes serotonin is the chemical that's released to to make you uh feel happy serotonin is uh and that's the problem that's the reason why why the comeback uh the come down from drugs is bad because you get all that serotonin and then your body overcompensates with the miserable chemical and then you feel sadder. So DMT and serotonin, what's the relationship? They're the same thing. Okay.

Why do people often report encountering entities or beings during DMT experiences? Because that's when the aliens talk to you, man. Okay. Maybe it's because they'll see a dog talk to him or something like that it's not a it's not a drug i've done as i've said i don't so what's i don't like picturing things i just like thinking that i'm more handsome than i am that i'm a better dancer than i am and i like to have my confidence boosted up or i like to wonder about things jack keeps saying beer but

he's never done cocaine that's what you're referring to what uh what scientific theories exist about why dmt causes such vivid hallucinations uh why does it give you such what scientific theories are exist about why dmt causes such vivid hallucinations. Why do people think that? Maybe it affects the iris or the retina or something like that. No, the drugs don't. Okay. What is ayahuasca and where is it traditionally used? In a tent in Mexico.

For some reason you've got to do it in Mexico. You've got to do it. Because that's everyone I know goes down to Mexico to do it you can do it in Joshua Tree and stuff like that but it needs to be in a desert in a tent for some reason or it doesn't work I don't know why can't I just do ayahuasca in me living room we'll find out

what is the origin of the name ayahuasca I should ask you if you could spell it ayahuasca try and spell it too Ayahuasca. Try and spell it too. No, no. It's because you do it to yourself. It used to be called Yua-wasca.

Okay. Do you know how to spell it? You want to do that one? I-A-W-ca. How long does a typical ayahuasca ceremony last? reckon it's gonna be a six hour hour gig okay what role does the mao inhibitor play in ayahuasca the mao now i don't know if that's a it's referred to but it's the mao inhibitor might be mao the mao inhibitor yeah the mao inhibitor that would mean that china have blocked it off their internet okay okay um any known health risks by the way

south carolina we were just there they block the porn and you have to i i got what i hate ate some edibles right i ate some edibles before the show i went to look at pornography as you do right and then they're like you have to be 18 you have to show your face i didn't know if it was a scam like they were trying to get my idea or something like that and i got too panicky so i couldn't get into the porn in south carolina the whole state has a block yeah the whole state has an id and stuff yeah you have to show ids that means the state knows what type of porn you're into that's too too much information too much i can't be doing that um any known health risks of ayahuasca uh probably dehydration from the sounds of it you're out in desert you're vomiting all the fucking time look i don't know i don't know if you can overdose from

i don't know if it's a liquid i don't know what it is it just sounds like the people who have done it yeah the people like i was vomiting all the. And then one person I know said that they felt closer to their daughter than they used to before. And then one person said they felt further away from their child after the experience. They said to me that they never truly loved their child because they never truly loved their husband when they got pregnant and it was born out of love or something.

I'm going to skip these next three, Jack. I'll get to them when we're talking so number 13 uh can ayahuasca i'm sorry 15 what is the ayahuasca diet um i would say that would be something that you would have to eat before you go in there you wouldn't want anything too heavy because there's vomiting involved yeah i was gonna ask so i'm gonna say no hot dogs i'm gonna say keep it clean keep it clean i reckon nice salad but nothing nothing too rich with acidic so like like like you know like tomato can be can be very hard on your stomach yeah sometimes yeah so i would say avocado being the desert i'm to say it's strictly avocado.

Okay. What is the significance of the vomiting or purging in an ayahuasca ceremony? You're cleansing yourself of all the bad shit your body is getting out so that you can ayahuasca it up, baby. And then how do the shamanic practices influence the ayahuasca experience? They shouldn't put the word sham in something like this. What's a shaman? Yeah, a sham man. That's what I call them. experience they shouldn't put the word sham in something like the shaman yeah sam man like

that's what i call them calling shams i look i don't know if i believe in it i i do believe in it i don't believe because i believe in drugs in the sense that i know that drugs do things right i'm not a moron yeah right so i know that the drugs do something i know that something will do i know that ayahuasca will do something to you but i don't know if i'm a full believer in that this is going to be a life-changing experience okay two more questions what are some misconceptions people have about dmt and ayahuasca i drank kava once does that count kava yeah isn't that no no coffee but no he said no kava is a root that um that is in the south pacific South Pacific and in Australia and stuff like that. And it's grounded into a muddy type water.

And I drank it in Vanuatu. Where? I'm just making, I might as well say Narnia to you, right? Yeah, what is Vanuatu? Vanuatu and the town of Vila. Yeah. That's Vanuatu's original name. Vanuatu is in theific islands and it's off the

coast of australia and it's it's you know it's island people that's cool um they speak french there misconceptions people have about dmt and ayahuasca what are some uh misconceptions another great drag name uh misconceptions uh uh misconceptions is uh that you should do it with kids okay don't do it with kids last question what are the legal restrictions on dmt and ayahuasca around the world like in general it has to be legal here now in amer America because I know so many people who are travelling out to do it on the regular. What about DMT? Policed, but not illegal. I don't know.

Decriminalised. I'll go decriminalised. Okay. All right. Look, ladies and gentlemen, this next ad, normally I read these things, but I don't need to do that to you because dear cat mummies and cat daddies, we all know you're obsessed with your cat, admit it. If we're looking at a camera roll,

it would be 90% pictures of your feline friends. You don't have children. You have nothing else going on. These are these creatures you have in your house. You have to scoop shit up. They poop in a tray. Then you come in with a scoop have to scoop shit up they have to they poop in a tray then you come in with a scoop and you scoop it up and you put it in a bag and then you dump it out your bag then you put it out in the sidewalk and then another bloke who has a bag of dog shit he drops it in there as well

right get out of me bins it's a whole thing i hate that oh i hate that go take carry it back to your house that was thrown in my recycling bin too. They're the worst. They say AI is going to take over the world. Chatbots for this. Virtual assistants for that. And eventually humans are going to be obsolete. I'm not saying I'm looking forward to it.

But there is one robot that already exists. And it's making me and my cats, I have two of them, lives better. It's the Litter Robot. Now, I could say to you that the company just sent me a little robot and it's changed my life but this is a lie they have sent me a robot and it hasn't changed my life because this is my third litter robot i have been a proud purchaser of this i i i'll do this ad for free not obviously obviously going to do that, by the way. Thank you for the money, Litter Robot. But I would do it for free because my family is a Litter Robot family.

What happens is the cat goes in. It's like a circular thing. It looks kind of like a Death Star cat. The new one's smaller and it comes with a staircase. Oh. Right? Comes with a staircase that they can go in. cat goes in i'm just going to tell you how it works the cat goes in there's litter in the tray the cat goes in does its business right

leaves and it always goes in there the cat never needs to be invited you don't have to train your cat your cat just knows it smells the litter it goes in there right it likes it because it's a private little dark hobby hole to do its thing it It goes in there, it does the shit. Then when it leaves, the machine senses that it happens. The machine starts to rotate, right? Dropping the compounded poo into a garbage disposal unit, all the hard stuff, into a bottom tray. And then just every every couple of days just go and open it up pull the bag out of the tray put a new bag in off you go you never have to scoop up again your days of scooping are over it conceals the smell of the urine and the feces i wish they had one for humans i don't have a cat anymore but i wanted one of these like this was

something i saw right well my my last cat that i have a dog now this they were just coming out with these and i was like that's the game changer it's it look it's it's no i'm not being the worst if you have a cat and you don't have a little robot then you're not living remember when you were five and you used to play in a sandbox with your little plastic shovel and, you know, it was kind of fun, but it was sort of weird as well. And now when you're grown up, that means you get to play in a Litter-Robot with a little tiny plastic shovel as well,

but you're scooping up shit. Let the Litter-Robot do the work. Litter-Robot is the solution to your Litter-Box problems. Never scoop up with the Litter-Robot. Litter-Robot self-cleaning technology automatically cleans the litter robot do the work litter robot is the solution to your litter box problems never scoop up with the litter robot litter robot self-cleaning technology automatically cleans and uses it so your cat will be fresh for the bed you know your cat can come out of there it's got no shit on it or anything like that it's not and it goes off to litter box your house will smell better you'll smell better the cat will smell better. The cat will smell better.

Letter Robot will send you a notification to your phone. What do you think it'll be saying? Your cat shit. Cat shit. Yeah, it won't say it in so many words. Yeah, it uses a different language probably. It'll say something. It might also say... Cats use the restroom.

I'll be honest with you. I don't use the app because I'm an analog man right I like just the cat I just every two days I empty it you don't have to empty it

all the time yeah but it has that option if you want it if you're in that technology yeah but the bag will be there the smell

the little robot will send you a thing and then it'll make sure hang on wait a minute wait a minute it even does data and insight to stay on top of your cat's health.

Yeah, there you go. So it'll actually say, oh, the cat's shitting too much. The cat's pissing too much. It's got too much of this and it's pissed. It's got too much of that. Look, it doesn't get any easier than this. Name things that are easier. Can't do it.

Don't even try. And your cat will thank you. Join over the 1 million happy pets and pet parents who have upgraded to Litter-Robot. What are you waiting for? It says here for me to provide a personal experience, but my whole life is a personal experience. I cannot tell you enough how good the Litter-Robot is. It's a game changer for cat owners.

Dogs can piss off. As a special offer to our listeners in the show, go to stopscooping.com slash IDK. You've got to put the slash IDK. So I'm going to spell the whole lot for you because I don't want you to get this wrong. S-T-O-P-S-C-O-O-P-I-N-G dot com slash IDKAT and enter the promo code IDAKAT to save an extra $50 off.

Right? Look, even if they charge three times as much money for these things, you're underpaying. I'm telling you, it's genius. That's an extra $50 off any litter bundle at stopscooping.com slash IDK and enter the promo code IDK at checkout. StopScooping.com slash IDK and enter the promo code IDK at checkout. StopScooping.com slash IDK and enter the promo code IDKAT, I-D-K-A-T.

And that's the whole ad. Ladies and gentlemen, it's time for us to read an ad. But look, when I say read, this is a joy. This spring, you go get out there. You go get your electric e-bikes on. Weather the weather, weather the time, and recapture the magic of riding a bike with an electric e-bike with an amazing variety of models built for all riders and all abilities. It's never been easier to fall in love with riding again.

Plus, electric e-bikes ship free and only requires quick tool-less assembly it means i can't do it people are often calling me a tool go to electric e-bikes.com to discover e-bikes that start at just 70 that can't be right 799 that should be 7 990 799 I don't like when you lie to me, Forrest. Tell them the truth. 799. I know about these bikes. I ride one.

With an XP. Well, this is true because, Forrest, talk about it. You ride the bike. I ride it all the time. I famously have ridden it with Arnie in my backpack. I think we've seen the video of that and stuff. I'm waiting for the movie. But I ride mine all the time.

It's amazing. You can change the pedal assist, so it's helping you a lot or a little. You can just go straight into electric as well, too, if you want, but it's just a really great way to get around town. I'll just go to Trader Joe's and pick up a few things. I'll just go up the street to run some errands,

CVS, whatever. It's awesome. You don't have to get in your car. You get a little wind. It's nice. up a few things i'll just go up the street like to like run some errands cvs whatever it's just it's awesome you have to get in your car you get a little wind it's nice comfort speed durability style did you you have any custom features that you you liked about your bike um well it has like built-in lights like so headlight and a relay that you can just switch on by the on the control panel by the touch of a button. It came with a rack on the back, so you can tie down, like I said, if I go to the grocery store or see if there's something like that, you can tie down bags and things like that.

You know what else is cool? Strangely, it has an iRack at the back and uses very little oil. Hmm? I think. Yeah, okay. I got that. What are you going to do?

Oh, a rack. I said it right and i i like walking it to be when you walk i'm just saying when you have to walk it it like knows that you're walking and it just keeps pace with you see that's funny that you should mention that for us because a lot of people think that when they get electric e-bike that they'll be exercising less because the you know the pedals are assisted this isn't true data shows that e-bike riders take their bike out more often yeah much more often yeah meaning more exercise more exploring more fresh air up to 150 miles on one charge with electric e-bikes unbeatable long range option financing

is as low as 49 a month we've all got49 a month plus savings on gas, parking and maintenance. You can fold it too. You can fold it and put it in your car and then just travel somewhere like meet friends somewhere and then go as well. How do we ever exist without it?

Durable features and accessories and added safety, convenience and control. Anyone can ride. Come on. Look at me. Anyone? Yeah.

With variety of models designed to be better made for transportation for all riders, the XP Lite is zippy, affordable, a great start to any e-bike journey. The Expedition, sturdy, versatile cargo e-bike that can hold up to 450 pounds, perfect for commuters, families, delivery drivers, and more. Or, oh, what's this? The XP trike for the people who have zero balance. The first fully foldable and fully assembled electric tricycle with enough torque for hefty payloads.

Yeah. We know what that means. Getting started with e-bike adventures is easier than ever ships free has quick toolless assembly and is affordable for easy travel and storage same safety regulations and road access as regular bikes in most states licenses regular registrations and inspections are not required but you know look hey always check the laws in your state go full throttle into spring with electric e-bikes the number one selling e-bikes in the nation get your adventure started with electric e-bikes and please please mention the i don't know about that podcast with podcast with Jim Jefferies when you go to the post checkout area.

Just mention it. Just be nice. Be a nice thing. That's electric, L-E-C-T-R-I-C, ebikes.com. All right, look, this show is sponsored by BetterHelp. I can't give you a better endorsement than, and this is, I believe, a fact in my life, that I would not be here without therapy.

I have had a stage in my life where I would not be here without therapy. I have had a stage in my life where therapy talked me off the edge. We can all carry around different stresses, big and small. When we keep them bottled up, they can start to affect us negatively. Therapy is a safe space. We can get things off your chest and figure out how to work things. What's weighing you down and why? Therapy, I believe your mental health is the same as your physical health. If you don't go to the gym, you start to feel lethargic, your body gets fat, and your joints are sore. But you go to the gym, all those things seem to alleviate, or you can deal with them a lot better. Your mental health is no different. It's no different. You've got to keep on top of it if you're thinking of starting therapy give better help a try it's entirely online designed to be convenient

flexible and suited to your schedule just fill out a brief questionnaire and get matched up with a licensed therapist and switch therapists at any time for no additional charge get it off your chest with better help visit betterhelp.com slash idk today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash idk. Dave, zero through 10, 10 is the best. I know nothing. How did Jim do on his knowledge of DMT and ayahuasca? So do you want me to score each point? No, no, just overall, just an overall feeling Just give me a vibe. Feeling that you have.

A vibe. Yeah. He wasn't taking notes. Oh, yeah, I've got them all listed here. Well, he was good on two. All right. He got two eights. He got two eights.

But he got one, two, three, four zeros. So on average, I reckon he was scoring probably about three three give me a zero for confidence check no i was gonna give you like a four all right man because you do some stuff yeah yeah i'm not that hungry so uh you're iowenska you got a seven so um all right dr dave nutt david nutt let's start talking what does dmt stand for jim said drugs make tasty i'm assuming that's wrong that wasn't the one i got right yeah dimethyl tryptamine so tryptamine is a an amino acid which um is in food stuffs and um some plants turn it into this

molecule called dimethar tryptamine which is a powerful psychedelic ah so it exists and a lot of things that were the trip yeah and then okay so where in nature can dmt be found you said jim got a point here this is outback of mexico and a cactus you got two points uh well it's not um it's it's found in a remarkable number of plants uh given that you're australian jim i'm gonna tell you it's found in almost all wild plants in Australia then why aren't we all tripping balls around Australia on that we're off bloody doing meth it's illegal and you don't know that yeah but it's not called ayahuasca yeah but all sorts of other things they should they should work on that because in Australia okay so I don't know if you know this but in Australia a

gram of cocaine now has hit $300, right? $300 where a gram of cocaine in Britain is 50 pounds over here, 60 bucks, right? And I haven't taken it for a long time. It all might have gone up, but I'm just saying from- It's a different drug. Yeah. But what I'm saying is, right, we are desperate for drugs in Australia being an island. So everything we have is either meth made cut to all bullshit or there's a lot of smack heads and uh like the fact that we have ayahuasca just sitting around in every plant

no you have dmt that's different so dmt is sitting around in bed in fact it's so so common about 20 years ago the australian government brought in a law which tried to stop people planting native Australian plants in their garden because they thought they were going to be using it to get high. And why haven't the Australians picked this up, I feel like? Or have they? And it's just something that they haven't told me about. That's a question I can't answer. I don't know why you're so keen on the older

stimulants frankly i'm just a businessman and if i knew that everything was around okay so like like so we have a lot of plants in australia that are only indigenous to australia or like you know just for example wattles or something like that exactly right and so these are all filled with dmt all right how do i harvest the dmt how do i make it into a a substance that can be used well this is where this is the subtle difference between dmt and ayahuasca you you have to smoke plants with dmt to get an effect unless you do what the indigenous people in the amazon basin so ayahuasca is a an invention or discovery of the indigenous amazonian peoples and they worked out that if you boil up two plants, one plant that contains DMT, and the other plant that contains that stuff

called Mao, although they didn't know it was Mao, they discovered that the two together made a very interesting drink, which would give you hallucinations and experiences out of body experiences, which they call ayahuasca and ayahuasca means vine of the soul because one of the plants is a vine well okay so i now i'm getting more interested in this so so the the ayahuasca okay because because i'll never try dmt because i'll never inhale smoke in any form ever again in my entire life. I don't believe that anything should go into your lungs except for real air.

I'm very passionate about that. There's nothing worth smoking. But if this, ayahuasca is a drink and I don't have to have a lot of it the first time. All right. But I know me in drugs. It starts off with you have a little bit and then you go, I'm feeling all right. And then I cane it too hard. It's me in all right. I know me in drugs. It starts off with you have a little bit and then you go, I'm feeling all right, and then I cane it too hard. It's me in all substances.

I can't. Well, I'm the same way with canopies at a party. I stay near the kitchen. What are canopies? The only thing about it is that if you take too much, you do throw up a lot. It's a bit self-limiting in that sense oh it starts okay so everyone throws up on it yeah a lot of that's part of the great the tradition is that you throw up

and shit uh so that you clean up and you got eight points for that by the way you got eight points because you you kind of work that one out because Right, right, right. Because I already seem to be doing half those tasks all by myself on the regular whether I want to or not. You were on the road the other day. I think you did that. I shit. My bowels aren't. I'm very sensitive stomach.

Is Taco Bell ayahuasca? Yeah, yeah. So the new cantina menu. The new cantina menu. So what would you suggest? Because everyone seems to be in a tent. So do you do it in a hotel room where you've got a bathroom to vomit and shit in? Do you wear a diaper for the experience?

In the big tents in Peru and Brazil, they give you a bucket. For both? You could do it in a hotel room. The bucket for both? Yeah, well, if you can't get off to the loo, then you do it in the bucket. I need several buckets, man. I don't shit where I eat. So I need a shit where you puke. where I eat.

So I need a shit where you puke. So I'll need a puke bucket, a shit bucket and a hemorrhoid blood bucket and a pile pushing up stick. Alright. Fair enough.

Well maybe iOS is not for you then. I just laugh like Rickyicky devayson um so that we kind of went off course in nature dmt can be found in a lot of places then i guess that's i mean so many places probably the oh it's the most widely found psychedelic in nature i guess wow and you can't just eat the plants and then it will happen it has to be smoked dmt so i'm going to talk you through this okay because we talk because that's question nine what role does the mao inhibitor play in ayahuasca so ma mao stands for monoamine oxidase and that is an enzyme in your gut and in your liver that breaks down DMT. So we eat DMT.

It gets destroyed before it gets to the brain. But, as I say, the indigenous people discovered that another plant contains something called harmaline, which blocks that enzyme. And therefore, you can drink the drink and the dmt will then get through the liver and into your brain i never this is awesome i did i didn't know the difference between dmt and i was i didn't even know they were related like that i didn't know so okay got it all right so so why do people if they are shitting and vomiting, what's the fun? We could jump around, too.

The fun is after you've shat and vomited, then you go places. You go to heaven or hell or some other universe. But that's the thing. You could go to hell. You could go to hell. How horrible would that be? Sounds lousy. That's why I don't want to go to hell.

Because I get pretty dark thoughts. And also, I don't want to live in my brain i want to go somewhere else i've lived in my brain all the time most people go to interesting places i know what's going on they're not many people have i mean the trips it's more um it can be challenging if you are depressed but for most people the trips are different and so different that they're interesting and sometimes you do meet these creatures called entities you go into another dimension where the entities are and you can have conversations with them and they can teach you things about yourself and they can help you solve problems in your life but um okay and i i don't mean to be dismissive of the entities,

but they're bullshit, right? They're not real things. They're things that you're imagining. So why would I take information off them? Like, okay, so has there ever been an entity that's just come down like this, and this is how you're going to make an iPad from scratch that's better than the iPad that already exists,

and then at the end of it you come back like, oh, I'm going to make so much money. You think it's business ideas they're giving you, entities? Could be. They're more about self-awareness and making sense of the challenges in your life. Do people come out of the ayahuasca experience and then like, oh, well, I'm divorcing my wife?

You know what I mean? Because you could make some big sweeping life changes, right, if you hear these things. Because I've heard a lot of people. Sorry, go on. Well, you made that wonderful comment about how someone came out of who was going through a divorce and came out saying for the first time he understood her perspective those are the kind of changes that because

so almost always the experience is beneficial in some way. I'll give it a go. With the entities you mentioned, what scientific theories exist about why DMT causes such vivid hallucinations? So the DMT enthusiasts, the psychonauts, genuinely believe you go into a different dimension. It transports you into another place, a wormhole. You're in a different dimension it it transports you into another place through you know a wormhole you're in you know you're in a different dimension often you're in a universe which is more real more meaningful brighter more tangible with the entities um we've been studying that we've been

trying to image the brain well we have imaged the brain of people who are having dmg trips and you know we're trying to find the entities we haven't found them yet uh but uh i suspect they probably are in the brain somewhere and and have you done this yourself uh i've not been a subject to the dmt stuff i'm too old now oh wait wait wait how old too old am i too old well i'm 73 i suspect you are not going to make that no no i'm uh i'm i'm 68 i just moisturized jim's jim's stopped doing those drugs no no i'm i'm I'm 47 years old, and I'm clean living. I'm sober. The only thing that I do is I take edibles.

I partake in California sober. I'm what they call California sober. I partake in marijuana. Oh, yeah, I see. I call it high and dry. And I also take edibles in the form of large amounts of food. Yeah. Yes.

We skipped. I take edibles on edibles. We skipped around a bit, but the breakthrough experience for DMT and the relationship between DMT and serotonin, we can talk about that, I don't think. I gave him an eight for the breakthrough, because what you said was exactly right that dmt it allows people to communicate more intensely with themselves with other people with nature that's the breakthrough experience okay and it's due to

serotonin but it's um uh you were quite right on certain i gave you a final serotonin serotonin, but you were quite right on serotonin. I gave you a five on serotonin. Serotonin is a transmitter that's involved in feeling and empathy and positivity and mood. And what DMT does, DMT is like a super serotonin. It's like giving a serotonin boost. So does it give you, I'm just trying to understand the high, does it give you a boost in the same way that like MDMA does? Yeah, that's a great question. That's a great question. It gives you something like MDMA, but it does more than that.

So it gives you the empathy and the sort of reduction of anxiety and that uh mdma does but it also produces much more profound uh changes in consciousness so people as i say no one's gone to another dimension on mdma no but on dmt they very commonly say they're in a different place uh different you know a different universe a different place different but you know a different universe a different world now you know dance this question if you don't want to do people try to have sex on it because like MDMA people are always wanting to have sex actually they always want to have sex and then and then I found over the open feces pile that's the whole thing it doesn't feel

like it's a sexy drug but it raises your serotonin see I've always thought with mushrooms I'm never into sex on mushrooms I'm just like too giggly and I'd rather well that's the point and so he's like a super mushroom so no in fact you know there's much more interesting things to do than have sex on DMT you'll be on that you know you'll post that yeah but with all those buckets of shit around how am I not meant to get an erection? Well, I don't think I want to go there anymore, but I can recommend a good psychiatrist. All right, we'll send you a psychiatrist then.

I make myself laugh. The origin of the name of the wask, oh yeah, you said it was the vine of the soul. That's the name, yeah. How long does it typically last, ceremony overnight so the ceremonies usually starts to get start the visuals people often have very powerful and entertaining visuals and of course the classic visuals and this is another interesting dinner dinner talk uh conversation yeah um the indigenous people see serpents and jaguars and uh and the serpent is the communication with god the serpent is like a it's like a snakes and ladders but in this case you go up rather than slide down the serpent and when these Spanish invaders got into South America and started teaching Christianity to the

natives the natives said oh they understood God yeah God was a serpent and the Christian said no no no no I'm afraid the serp's the devil and they tried to eliminate all the use of psychedelics because well they were introducing people to the devil rod I'm so boring I'd probably see worms and bulbos you might see what you want to see. I mean, Volvo is boring. I like that anyway. Snakes and jaguars, worms and volvos. I like it. We talked about the Mao inhibitor.

Any known health risks associated with ayahuasca? Yes, it can raise your blood pressure a little bit. So if you've got really high blood pressure, you probably wouldn't want to do that. pressure a little bit so you you know if you've got really high blood pressure you probably wouldn't want to do that um and if you're taking medicine some medicines can make it a bit dangerous so you know medicines like lithium you can have fits so we people are recommended either not take it if there are medicines or to get off the medicines for a good few weeks beforehand but that in itself can lead to problems because of course if you're on the medicine the medicines for a good reason then you can have and i know people who've come off the medicines so they can have ayahuasca and then they've had terrible recurrences of their depression so so it's better not to do that if you can but if it's but there are some medicines you can stay on but

some youth would have to come why does it always seem to happen in a tent? And why do we have to have a bucket? Why can't I do it in a hotel room with a toilet? You can, but that's a really good... You can have individual ayahuasca sessions if you can find someone to do that. As we'll discover later, it's actually illegal in the US. It's illegal in almost every country except south america but you could certainly do it in a in any setting you like

provided you had a guide with your it's done in a tent with shamans because that's the most efficient way you can have maybe 15 people lying around in a big tent you'd like do you take it lying down because it's um and it quite often and for the most part these 15 people do you know other people or do you uh is no usually the people you don't know you can go as a group some some military vets go as groups and the whole platoon that's been traumatized might go together but typically no you typically people go by themselves or with their partners. Depends whether they're going for healing or they're going for the experience.

You know, there are obviously there are sort of psychedelic tourists. It's big business. But there are also people who like vets who've got PTSD who want to be healed. Once it leaves your body, can you have any psychotic episodes? Can it have any lasting effects? Well, it has lasting effects very often because people come out here they often feel that they've lifted the trauma from their bodies and they often feel very different so the effects are often really enduring but if you have a bad effect we don't recommend

people who have been psychotic to do it because it could bring back psychosis alright so I um there's a comedian named ron white and he's done podcasts talking about how he did ayahuasca and he stopped drinking i don't know if you saw i know he stopped drinking yeah that's what that's what he that's what he credited at least on tom cigarro's podcast and so is that a thing people do too because i'm like a compulsive gambler and i've had problems with that is that something that i would have like well indeed so actually you'll be interested we are just starting at imperial college a study of mushrooms

psilocybin in compulsive gamblers so i will tell you in six months whether it might work if mushrooms work all of his money will be gone by then can we can we do it this week oh do you want to volunteer yeah i'll volunteer 100 i'll volunteer i've done i've done mushrooms before um and i like mushrooms but i've never done them i guess you're administering certain amounts of doses or i don't know i'm i'm i'm 100 will volunteer you need to have a full trip you need to have a really you need to let go you need to have it You need to do it in a controlled setting where you can genuinely have a big place and let go. Unfortunately, we can't treat Americans in Britain

because our insurance won't cover the American legal costs. And also, it might not work at the gamble for us. Ho, ho, ho. Well, last time I was in las vegas with jim here we were doing shows and uh i was open for him and uh uh jim does not have a gambling problem so he'll go and have a gamble with some friends and i sat we took mushrooms and uh sat there at the table and i had no i i didn't do a huge dose but i did not have any desire to gamble i just had fun laughing well done well that's great so maybe but you didn't cure you did it no no all you have to do for us is be on mushrooms 24 hours a day yeah no problem whatsoever they believe the bed yeah

all right well sadly this is the problem well that's not the problem this is actually one of the the really good things about these psychedelics is if you keep taking them the effect wears off and that's why you can't become dependent on our with ayahuasca generally you know you people wouldn't take it more than maybe you know three times in a week otherwise the effect would disappear oh okay i plan on doing it once i was going to try and do it just for that that reason i was like oh maybe gambling or something like that but i mean maybe i'll try it i don't know well if you do would you let me know please because seriously it would be it would be very encouraging to us in our research if we had sort of experts like you telling us that ayahuasca helps you know maybe d dmt is more powerful than mushrooms generally and it might be that if the

mushrooms don't work all right i reckon you should try ozempic um yeah yeah a lot of people have given up things on that drug because i know takes away urges to eat i don't like i don't like taking drugs like that though like pharmaceutical kind of stuff all right well you go in the bucket until you're all cured what are you saying dave shut out the gambling i'm saying yeah it's not you know it's only an injection once in a while so it but uh i don't the evidence i've we've been researching as mpic in addictions for the last 10 years and it's there's some people it works but for the majority it doesn't so i i don't know the hand it definitely loses weight i had a friend who took it who who who lost weight and um and stopped drinking yeah not me i'd already stopped drinking um and so

yeah but there have been studies i mean i can tell you the company you know novo nordisk the company invented this i mean seven years ago started, they thought it could stop people drinking. And it does stop some people drinking. But if you give it to 100 alcoholics, it only stops about 30 drinking. And then placebo stops about 25 drinking. So actually, it's not a licensable medicine. 30 is not bad. But 25 on placebo.

No, it's not bad. It's beating placebo that's the problem. Because, of course, you're in a program and they're getting other treatments as well it's not just a not just the ozempic if i come up with a good british accent can i come do the mushroom study hello uh stay in touch my man stay in touch okay yeah do you have to be a little posher than that because we're imperial we're the that's the only one i can do um so common side effects we talked about ayahuasca and it can be used therapeutically i think we've been talking about ayahuasca diet jim said this is what you eat before because you're going to vomit hot dogs no hot dogs keep it clean yeah that's he's dead he was right he he i he ever i gave him what did i give him for that i give him um

i gave him a five i've had a ten because he's right you don't eat meats you want to get your you want to get me to and the reason for that is that meat is full of tryptophan and tryptophan turns into serotonin so what they're trying to do is strip serotonin out of your body, and that means that the receptors for serotonin are freed up so that the DMT gives you more bang for your buck when you take it. So all avocado. Yeah, avocado. That's what Jim said.

Yeah, I'm not sure about avocado. I mean, it's – I don't know about avocado. It's a good question. They sort of recommend – It's been well documented in me and my hemorrhoids. I just would think that if I'm going to shit in a bucket, I want something that's going to be able to pass easy. That would be my goal.

Well, in that case, I don't... Yeah, I actually think on ayahuasca, pretty much everything comes out with an explosion. So I don't think you need to worry about being constipated. There you go. If you're constipated, take ayahuasca. Another cure. I'm not saying that. depleted there you go that's your concert pay to take ayahuasca another another cure um so the i'm not explaining that the significance of purging and vomiting uh jim says cleansing yourself of

all the stuff in your body is that well that's no the reality is that's the ayahuasca making you turning your guts on but the indigenous peoples the shamans say that's you're getting rid of the bad spirits but you're certainly getting rid of yeah things and you can interpret it anywhere you like but it is a pharmacological effect of the drug and we see it we see it with mushrooms if you take a lot of mushrooms people sometimes vomit but so this can't be good for you if your body is making everything else fall out. Well, maybe it is good for you. Go on. Well, I just...

It depends. Will there ever be just like a tablet or a shot that they'll sell at the pharmacy where you just go home, don't use heavy machinery, have a bucket? Yeah, you can. They are making it into capsules this combination of the two the two plants they are making it into capsules that people can use in therapies or doing them so you don't have to go but that you will always run the risk of of vomiting i think if so we do recommend you know if you're going to do i always can do it with someone who can you know, if you're going to do ayahuasca, do it with someone who can help you, especially if you're struggling to get to the toilet so they can give you the bucket.

So shamanic practices, how does that influence ayahuasca experience? You've mentioned it several times, but that's. Well, there's an enormous ritual around the use of ayahuasca. That's been developed for thousands of years. use of ayahuasca that's been developed for thousands of years shamans are people that have learned the skills that's often passed on fathers to son and they know about the manufacture the creation of it they know about the preparation they know about the history and the and the symbolism and they also know to have songs they sing they're called current arrows and they produce they there's music and singing and chanting we go with it and all together they produce these

extremely powerful uh experiences which from for everyone almost everyone are life-changing in some way and for many people they're actually uh it's very significantly life-changing they you can see things differently and what's it what's a common life-changing thing that they're more loving they're more accepting are they they're more they're more indicate more they what it is basically you're less insular you see the world you're more interested in the world you're less insular. You see the world. You're more interested in the world. You're more connected to the world. You think differently. You've got more insights into your own mistakes. You've got new ways of behaving.

All sorts of changes occur. But mostly, it's a sense that more is possible, that your brain is controlling so much of your mind and you can with ayahuasca switch off your brain and your mind can run freer and you can actually go to places think things that you haven't been allowed to think before see things differently etc um yeah i've thought about doing it but i everyone's always like oh i know i know a guy there's always a lot of my friends have gone out the joshua tree for whatever reason and i was like i i have this shaman or i know the guy but that's the thing that always turns me off is like i don't know anyone can say they you know like i would be worried about that they need to have like a so it's only legal it's only only legal

in south america oh he was gonna tell me how yeah so uh it's yeah so it's legal in brazil and peru uh it's uh well it's it's yes essentially so we're talking about ayahuasca here yeah i was yeah i just don't want to do it anywhere where i have to know where my passport is you know what i mean well you know when you're like when you're over yes where's me fucking passport i'm worried about my passport. I'd like to do it in America or Australia where I can just fucking bum out on the whole thing. Well, there is no doubt. If you put your mind to it, you will be able to find.

If you read Michael Pollan's book, How to Change Your Mind, he managed to source an ayahuasca experience in the States. You won't have any problems if you right if you look around i mean it will be illegal but i don't think you're going to get prosecuted why would you you know i mean you're not doing anyone any harm are you no one would know don't tell people beforehand how do i get it past tsa um so you were that's what you were going to say to me is it's illegal because i was saying you know people always recommend these these people to me in the desert no no no but um we

when people ask me where to go we usually recommend some retreats in costa rica there's a a number of very very well established and very effective retreats with high quality therapists, some of whom we've trained. Some of our therapists go over there to earn some extra money. So, yeah, so that you can get really good retreats in Costa Rica. But you can find retreats. You will be able to find private therapists in the States. I just can't recommend them.

I'm not allowed to. Yeah, sure. But I wasn't worried about the passport thing until you said that, Jim. And if I went to Costa Rica, that's what I would be thinking about. Where's my passport? I'll be throwing up. Where's my passport? You took it.

Give it back. And also now that I know, so I do want to do it now and I know that something, maybe I'll do it for my 50th or something like that in a few years or something. But I don't want to do it with a friend now in case i say something stupid that i can't take back or god forbid they won't listen

they won't listen yeah no one there is no the communication isn't to other people you don't talk to other people this you've got far more interesting things and places to go you know you're in another dimension you know the universe you don't talk to other people. You've got far more interesting things and places to go. You know, you're in another dimension. You're in another universe. You don't really want to have, you know, small talk with your neighbor. And so it goes all night. So let's say, what is it, 10 hours? Yeah, I mean, basically, I mean, they start at 6ish when it gets dark

and it goes on to dawn, yeah. Okay, so 10 to 12 hours so 10 to 12 hours 10 to 12 hours yeah and then after that can i drive or am i out for a couple of days or or i think you probably need to get out of the jungle you're putting in a helicopter yeah um yes you can well no you don't it's the same as if you were coming down after a night of doing mdma or something you know, you wouldn't want to drive unless you, you know, you want to have... Can't you afford a taxi? No, I'm just saying if I wanted to do it in a hotel. I just keep on thinking that I just want to do this in my house.

Can't I just bring a shaman to my house? It's the leap in the house that I don't want to do. I think they would, yeah, I'm sure that they'd charge you still. They wouldn't just want to listen to your banter. I got money. You don't want to do it in your house. Yeah, you go, exactly. I don't know.

I imagine you could bring them to your home. I imagine you could. I wouldn't be using a bucket. Yeah, your family's going to be bothering you the whole time. Dad, you're like that. No, I'd put them in a hotel. Oh, yes. Well, you know, there's a church church there are two churches in brazil by the

way yeah i don't want to i don't want religion involved i don't want religion involved no no but i'm going to tell you about kids they use they give they get they use ayahuasca as part of their um ceremonies that they're religious they they're kind of Catholic churches and they use them as part of this ceremony and the kids take it as well and that's one of the reasons we know it's pretty safe because the kids it's all part of bringing together the the whole community of the church using churches and I also didn't vomit and what does it well they don't they don't take as much so no let me just be clear they It's more like what you were talking about with the mushrooms. It breaks down some of the tensions between people,

so it makes people more of a group. They become more relaxed and more humorous on it. So they're not having a trip, but they're having a bonding. So at low doses, ayahuasca is like mushrooms. What does it taste like? Is it tasty? Do people enjoy the taste? I don't think they do, actually, no.

I don't imagine. I've never heard anyone be like, it's pretty good. It's like chicken soup. All the things that are fun, like eating magic mushrooms doesn't taste good. No, you just got to chew them and swallow them. Just get them down. Cocaine isn't the most Moorish flavor. No, there's no drugs that I've ever experienced that have any good tastes.

Vitamin C tablets. Well, that's because they flavored them. They're a delight. The Flintstone vitamins. Yeah, I'll tell you what else is good. Metamucil fiber gummies. Yeah, yeah. Fiber gummy.

Much like ayahuasca. So legal restrictions on DMT and ayahuasca around the world you said dmt and ayahuasca have different restrictions depending right so dmt is illegal all around the world as a pure compound ayahuasca is legal in countries uh like south american countries it's legal in mexico but i think only for mexicans uh it's widely available though in other countries Spain has a very active ayahuasca retreat scene which is illegal but effectively not enforced and many of the European veterans go to Spain to get their ayahuasca treatment it is I don't mean to get all like hip you know like people with weed they're like it's from a plant man and stuff but it's

crazy that DMT is illegal everywhere but it's in plants so it's just there well i would completely agree with you and i think as i said the australian let's ban it not you can't it's truly one of the most absurd things i've ever heard for its whole we're so laid back we're so laid back us aussies and australian individuals are but as a unit oh whole we're so laid back, we're so laid back us Aussies, and Australian individuals are. But as a unit, when it comes to rules, love a rule, right? There's no ayahuasca tents going on in fucking Australia like that. Here's Gavin, he's your shaman. Gavin's going to give it to you.

It's in a Heinz baked bean Tin that he's mixed it up in And a meat pie Now who here had a meat pie Before they came Not good you wouldn't know of meat in your body We'll do it anyway Two weeks without a pie

Two weeks without a pie They'll never get it up and running You've got to go two weeks without a pie they'll never get it up and running you gotta go you gotta go two weeks without a pie oh no no my visions will all be anger um i think we did all the questions here yeah all right cool uh this is the part of our show called dinner party facts we ask our guests to give us some fact interesting wash it down with pas down with Pashiona. They can use to impress people. You've already given us a couple dinner party facts. You got something else?

Yeah, I want to tell you the funniest story about psychedelics in South America. And it's about mescaline. All right. All right. Which is obviously another psychedelic. It comes from thai and um when the cath when the catholic missionaries came and they stopped people taking ayahuasca because they saw serpents they um started teaching the the people the the relatives

or the descendants of the incas in the mountains of South America, about God and about how do you get to heaven? Well, when you die, your soul goes up to heaven, and you meet the man called St. Peter. St. Peter has the keys to the gates of heaven. And if you're good, peter what some peter will ask you questions and if you pass the test of goodness you will go into heaven and and the native people said well that's fascinating actually we um we've been doing that the thousands of years

yeah and and and the um somebody said what are you talking about and they said well yeah we we have this cactus which when we take it takes us to heaven this is the mescaline cactus and they said and and more than that we're going to rename this cactus the san pedro the st peter cactus because it just is what it says on the tin i thought that was just a wonderful two fingers to the spanish saying you know basically your religion's okay but we've got a better one and we're going to name our cactus after you just to spite you because you don't want us to use it that reminds me of an old uh an old joke about uh what is it the mother and daughter bus ride have Have I told you this one?

No. Okay, for Americans this joke doesn't work as well, but you'll know the difference between the two words. So a mother and daughter trip has a bus accident. Everyone on the bus dies, very sadly. They all go up to heaven, and all the mothers and daughters are waiting to get up into heaven. And the first lady, she goes goes she's lined up there and saint

peter says you're not allowed into heaven i don't know why he's british but he goes you're not allowed into heaven he goes your whole life was ruled by money all you thought about was money money money money money you even called your daughter penny down to hell with you right then the next one comes up he goes you're not allowed into heaven all you thought about was alcohol and drinking and all that type of stuff drink drink drink drink drink you even called your daughter sherry down to hell with you and the next woman turns to a to her daughter and goes, I don't think we should bother, Fanny. It still works because Fanny, but I know what Fanny is. Fanny means pussy in the rest of the world. It means bum in America, but it's a solid joke.

It still works. I had a different visual, though. I didn't know what Sherry was. Sherry's an after-dinner drink, a port. Sherry, a little tiny dessert one. Never had one. Professor David Nutt, thank you for being here. The podcast is called The Drug Science Podcast.

It's not just about DMT and ayahuasca. As you can see, if you're watching this, he's got numerous books that he's written. Drugs Without the Hot Air was the one I mentioned before, but if you go on Amazon and you search Professor David Nutt, you'll see a book, Psychedelics, the Revolutionary Drugs That Could Change Your Life, Drink, the New Science of Alcohol and Health, Neuroscience Based on,

oh, that's not you, sorry. Whoops, skipped that. But anyways, go search Professor David Nutt on Amazon and you'll see a whole bunch of other books about different types of drugs and neuropharmacology. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you, Dr loved it thank you so much we appreciate you good let me know when it's going out and i'll tweet it oh we'll do we'll do if you're ever at a party someone comes up to you and goes uh you can't find dmt anywhere in australia go well i don't know about that

and walk away the wattle look for the wattle look for the wattle