I Don't Know About That - JFK Assassination

Episode Date: January 16, 2024

There's a lot of conspiracy around this topic, but there should definitely be no conspiracy about how our expert Mark Zaid ( @MarkSZaidEsq ) really knows his stuff. ADS: BETTERHELP: Visit BetterHelp.com/IDK today to get 10% off your first month. HELLOFRESH: Go to HelloFresh.com/IDKATFREE and use code IDKATFREE for FREE breakfast for life!

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Around New Year's we're obsessed with changing ourselves instead of just expanding on what we're already doing right. Therapy helps you find your strengths so you can ditch the extreme resolutions and make changes that really stick. Celebrate the progress you've already made. Visit betterhelp.com slash idk to get 10% off your first month, that's BetterHelp.com. Whether your resolution this year is to save money, eat better, or stress less, HelloFresh is here to help you do all three. Boom! Hello, hello, hello. Fresh, fresh, fresh.

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One breakfast item per box while subscription is active. That's free breakfast for life at hallowfresh.com slash idacatfree with the code idacatfree. You got so excited about the breakfast for life. I couldn't believe it. I've never had any of our things have been for life. Yep. Testicles. Ovaries. ever had any of our things have been for life yep testicles ovaries which ones belong in the outside which are inside genitals are they both even genitals you might find out and i don't know about that with jim jeffries

uh ovaries genitals. Yes. No, they're part of the reproductive system. It doesn't mean they're genitals as such, do they? What counts as a genital? I think it's like you've got to be able to hold it. I think you've got to... If you can hold it like that... I'll look up what a genital is.

Guys, our next episode's on genitals. I'm kidding. Are you looking up what is a genital? Related to the human Or animal reproductive organs Yes that's a genital So you'd say Ovaries or genitals Sure yeah

Related to the reproductive organs I'll look up R ovaries genitals R ovaries genitals What about a sex Or a sex organ That's different It's still a

Sex organ We buy dick The internal The internal genitalia Is the structures Within the true pelvis, including the vagina, cervix, uterus, fallopian tubes, and ovaries. A lot of false pelvis.

Jesus, it seems like we're giving out a lot of fucking liberal bloody genital claims there. Yeah. You got some shows coming up, Jim. Sacramento, January 26th. Sacramento. I left my heart in Sacramento. Like the famous song. January 26th. Sacramento Memorial Laboratory. I left my heart in Sacramento. Like the famous song.

January 27th, you're in Indio, California, at the Fantasy Springs Resort and Casino. Oh, yeah. Put your Indio in, take your Indio out. Put your Indio in, and you'll shake it all about. Your next location, you'll definitely have a song. March 8th and 9th, Las Vegas. Ah, yes.

Come and take me by the hand and walk you through the streets of Vegas. There'll be so many. It's the streets of London. Okay. March 22nd, Des Moines, Iowa. Oh, I don't know. Des Moines. Da, da, da, da, da, I don't know. Des Moines.

Da, da, da, da, da. You don't know one? I got a do, do, moin. Push pineapple, shake a tree. I got a do, do, moin. Yeah. March 23rd, you're in Kansas City, Missouri. I got to Kansas City on a Friday.

But Saturday I learned a thing or two. Because up to then I didn't have an idea of what the modern world is coming to I keep doing this to you stop it April 12th Cape Town

South Africa oh um uh da dum ba ba da da dum ba dum I'm doing Sugar Man Rodriguez

oh yeah because they love him in Cape Town I thought you were doing like the Adams family I was like I don't know I'll do

I'll do Cape Town Cape Town it'll do Cape Town, Cape Town. It's my Cape Town. My type of town, Chicago. Oh, nice. Changing to Cape Town. This is good.

May 2nd, Spokane, Washington. Oh, you Spokane too early. All right, we're done. Go to jimjeffries.com and click on tour. You can see all his upcoming tour dates. There's also Denver and South Carolina, Fort Lauderdale, San Francisco, et cetera. Check it out.

Denver, we added a new show. Two shows. Two shows. We had an extra show. One show sold out. We had another show. And then also go to my website, forestshaw.net. I have some shows coming up at the end of the month in Vegas. and then also go to my website, forestshaw.net.

I have some shows coming up at the end of the month in Vegas. I'll be there for seven days at the Rio at the Comedy Cellar, so there's like 14 shows. Come out to one of those shows if you're in the area, if you're in Vegas, and then also follow us all on Instagram, IDCat Podcast on Instagram. Jim, what's your handle on Instagram?

Jim Jeffries. What's yours, Jack what's your handle on Instagram? Jim Jeffries. What's yours, Jack? Jack underscore Hackett Instagram. Got to get that underscore out of there. Jack underscore Hackett. Mine's Forrest. You had the priest from Father Ted. It's called Jack Hackett.

Yep. If you look up my name, it's that guy. Follow us all. Go to shows. I have another podcast, The Merman Podcast. Please listen to that. You guys are getting a bit crazy. I was watching one of your clips

the other day you had like that mystic from mexico on there from today yeah yeah walter mercado i love that yeah yeah it looked like it was fun it was fun i want to be involved today bring walter mercado on this one we can do you want walter mercado on this book sure i can get him yeah you should get him whenever you want it's a him him, is it? Well, it's up for debate. Good to know. Yeah, we're at the Sunshine Comedy Festival. We just came back from there. Anyways, listen to the Merman podcast. You still doing a podcast, Jack?

Yep, unsolicited. Still happening? Yep, still going. Okay, every week? Yeah, sometimes. Yeah, he has a fan base. He has a fan base. No, no, no. I just was selling the promoter.

It was still going. I didn't know. Still going. Listen on. All right. Oh, sorry. I just was selling the promoter. It was still going. I didn't know. Still going. Listen on. All right. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I got my Red Bull here.

All right, here we go. I just had something in my eye, and then it made me yawn. I don't know. It was weird. There was a lot of emotions. What happened was weird. I saw it. I saw the whole thing.

All right. Now let's meet our guest, Mark Zaid. G'day, Mark. Thanks for being on the podcast, mate. Now it's time to play. Yes, though. Yes, though. Yes, though.

Maybe. Judging a book by its cover. Mr. OK, books behind you. You forgot how to do this? Yeah, a lot of the books behind you are books of classic movies, almost like a poster, and then they look like they're – I think that's a poster of classic movies. Is it about movies?

No. I love movies. That would have been good. They made a movie about this. They made several. Oh, is it about Jesus? No. Why did you grit Oh! Is it about Jesus? No. Why did you grit your teeth when you said that?

Because I don't want you to know I'm blaspheming. Keep it to myself. Okay, so they made a movie about... Is it about... There's been several movies, I would probably say. And documentaries. Oh, and documentaries. So it's about a real thing.

Is it about a war? No. Is it about an individual person? More or less. More or less. Is it about a president? Yes. All right.

Now we're going. We've done JFK being assassinated, but we didn't do JFK per se. We did the assassination of JFK. We did? We did. Well, we did the talk about John Wilkes Booth. That's Lincoln.

That's Lincoln. That's Lincoln. You learned a lot. Of course, fuck. That was Edwin Booth. So is it JFK? Yes. Ding, ding, Lincoln. You learned a lot. Yeah, of course. Fuck. That was Edwin Booth. So is it JFK? Ding, ding, ding. You got it.

JFK assassination. Or ding, ding, ding, or bang, bang, bang. That's the hardest I've ever heard Jack laugh. JFK assassination. That's what we're talking about today. We have never talked about that. Mark Zaid is a well-known Washington, D.C. national security attorney

who represents spies, contractors, journalists, and federal employees, including cabinet officials and members of Congress. Mark began studying JFK's assassination as a child back in the mid-70s and has been interviewed, lectured, and written on the topic many times over the last three decades, including by the Sixth Floor

Museum in Dallas for their oral history series. You can find him on his website, at Mark Zaid, that's Z-A-I-D, is the last name,.com. And his Twitter or ex is at Mark S. Zaid, E-S-Q. And on threads at Spy, A-T-T-N-Y, Spy Attorney.

Tell us a little, since a kid, you've been into the JFK assassination. Is that correct, Mark? Yep, that's right. Just started reading about it and the Warren Commission and other aspects of it. But over the years, I've represented quite a number of people connected to the case, including three of his Secret Service agents that were with him. I don't want to give too much because it will spoil the answers. One of his mistresses, Judith Exner.

Others who were involved with the assassin. And I do a lot of work, especially in getting information declassified for researchers to be able to review and decide what they think about the case. That's cool. All right. Well, that was an case. That's cool. All right. We'll allow you as an expert. Let's see. So you're going to have,

Jim's going to answer a whole bunch of questions about the JFK assassination. You're going to grade him on his accuracy, zero through 10, 10 being the best after he's done. Jack here is going to grade him on his confidence. I'm going to grade him how hungry I am. God damn it, every time. 21 through 30,

the magic bullet. Magic bullet, yep. That's just the magic bullet. Turn left. Yeah, yeah. 11 through 20, also the magic bullet, but the smoothie maker.

Oh, all right. That's one. There's no grassy knoll? Zero through 10, the magic bullet. What do you think this one is? Grassy knoll. Not vibrator. Magicy no not vibrator

magic bullet the vibrator yeah i know i know okay i'd hate to have you holding a vibrator the way that you just put your hand up like this and just that uh that was the switch i was starting on because the only magic bully vibrator i could find there are bullets but the only magic bullet vibrator could find had a little switch. Anyways. Okay, here we go. What year, date, and location was JFK assassinated? Okay, the location was Dallas, Texas. The year...

I'm going to be a year either side of this if I got it wrong, but 1962. Do you know the date? Well, they had the top down. So I'm going to say it's summer. Okay. Hang on. It's not in Texas. It could be spring as well. So'm gonna oh i'm gonna say may 12th

who allegedly assassinated jfk no allegedly about it it was lee harvey oswald assassinated it wasn't uh the booth no it wasn't john book's booth what country did the uh okay assassin defect to and live in he lived in russia you know the year oh the year that he lived there um early 50s i'm gonna say 1954 okay um mark had a lot of good dinner party facts but a couple of them in the questions one of them is this. What is the significance of Oswald getting VD in Japan while serving for the U.S. Marines? He got a venereal disease. Yeah, in Japan while serving for the U.S. Marines. What is the significance of that in relation to the JFK?

It made him turn his back on America a bit more. If they handed out a few more frangers in the kits, you know, condoms, he would have been all right. I knew what it was, and I forgot. Frangers, Australia., you know. What? Condoms. You would have been all right. Frangers. I knew what it was and I forgot. Frangers. Australia. There you go. That's it?

Yeah. Okay, what happened? Frangers from the American government. What happened to Oswald? He got killed by Jack Ruby. Okay. Is that the question? Yeah.

Well, he never stood trial. He was going off to stand trial and then for whatever reason. So this is the whole thing. My mother, back in the day, went, oh, it was a simpler time. I go, why didn't they have a roof on there? Oh, it was a simpler time. We didn't worry about things like that. And it's like, well, you had Lincoln assassinated.

You've had people assassinated. There's people all around the world getting assassinated. They were just dumb from the 1940 from the end of world war ii till right up to vietnam the world was just dumb walking around like this like morons because also there was no airport security and how does that relate to jack it turned out people used to get hijacked all the time the planes were constantly getting hijacked what do we do about this okay why it says dead ruby what the fuck were they walking oswald through a crowd of people where there was no security on that crowd he was just having a gun there that that he should have never been

walked from a courtroom to a whatever whatever an interviewing place with just fucking people from the public hanging out get the fuck out of here okay um what type of business was jack ruby in nightclub owner you know the name of it um ruby's a girl's second best friend who is henry wade um oh he weighed plenty of people he was a doctor who was henry wade yeah uh uh henry wade henry wade uh was i'm gonna say he was the uh the cop who was holding the arm of of oswald when he was shot who took the most famous film known uh showing jfk's assassination who was the person um oh i wasn't i thought that was just like standard news cameras is this like somebody just holding a handy cane? It's a famous film. It's named after this person.

And it's supposedly the best film of the assassination, like recording. The movie JFK with Kevin Costner? Yeah. That was Oliver Stone. Oliver Stone. Oliver Stone made the best one. Where do many conspiracy theorists believe one or more shots originated from? Over the grassy knoll.

And what is the magic bullet theory? Magic bullet is the bullet shouldn't have turned a corner when it went through one person and out the other and then up through a thing. Who was the other person? It wasn't the driver because he kept driving. I'm going to say it was the passenger in the front seat, the front passenger. You don't know who it was?

It was one of his secret service. Okay. What was the name of the entity created by President Lyndon Johnson to investigate the assassination and the results? What were the results of it as well? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Shoot in the head gate. Mm-hmm. Yep. That's right. And then what were the results of it as well? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Shoot in the head gate. Mm-hmm.

Yep. That's right. And then what were the results of the findings? Everyone thinks that Watergate was the first gate. It wasn't the first gate. No. There was many gates before that. Shoot in the head gate?

Shoot in the head gate. Yeah. And then what were the results of shoot in the head gate? He definitely got shot in the head. 100? Yeah, 100%. The autopsy was definitive well

the results were that they decided that Lee Harvey Oswald shot him from the 6th floor of the book depository and he was a lone gunman can you name any members of the Warren Commission the fucking Warren that's the one

I've watched documentaries and shit on this. What's the Warren Commission? It's the thing. The shooting the head gate? The shooting the head gate. Okay. Shooting the head gate. Okay, so can you name any members of the Warren Commission?

Warren. He was there. Mr. Warren? Yeah, Warren was there. Got it. Warren's cousin, Nepo babyed his way into the fucking commission. He shouldn't have been there. Yeah.

Who is- It's all Warrens. Yeah. A rabbit. He shouldn't have been there. Yeah. Who is... It's all Warrens. Yeah. A rabbit? A rabbit. They live in Warrens. Oh. I don't know.

Anyone else? I don't know the members of the Warren commission. When did Congress investigate JFK's assassination and what were the results? I assume they would have investigated it fairly quickly, so I'm going to say 1963, and then the results were that he was definitely assassinated by a lone gunman from the book Depository.

Definitely a head wound. Lee Harvey Oswald. It was definitely a head wound. And then Jackie's dress was all covered in blood. Okay. She wore it. She kept it on because she wanted them to see what they've done. Why did the House Select Committee on Assassination conclude

President John F. Kennedy was probably assassinated as a result of a conspiracy? Well, we're all assassinated because of results of conspiracy. There's always like – Okay, so you're saying why did Lee Harvey Oswald do it? We'll never truly know. So they came up with a conspiracy there. He was definitely...

He was definitely... What's the word? Radicalized in Russia for some reason or another. I believe he got his gun through the post. And I think he took it in in a bag that day. And, you know, not a good dude, man. Okay. What event led to the creation by Congress

of the John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act of 1992 that ultimately led to the public release... Say that year again. 1992. 1992. That ultimately led to the public release of millions of documents of previously withheld records concerning assassination so what event led to that to where they released

all the Nirvana released the third album I guess Nirvana Oasis released definitely maybe you think it was that? it was a year later. It was 93. No, it can't be that.

I think Nirvana, you're on the right path. I would... Nirvana? I'm kidding. Oh. I would say it was that people were chatting one day about Reagan being shot, and they were like, we never finish. People were like, you should investigate Reagan got shot.

Investigate. We haven't fucking finished fucking JFK, cunt. Yeah. That's what one of them did. Finish that project before you start a new one. That's what happened. What is the connection of New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison to JFK's assassination?

He was the bloke that jumped on the back of the car. You know the bloke who just hung on the back a bit as they sped away? Yeah. He was that bloke. Hang her on. He was the hanger on her. All famous people have him. Who have been some of the most prominent people

and entities accused of assassinating JFK? Name a few. Like in conspiracy theories that people say, well, they would have said there was other government bodies that have done it. There would have been something to do

with Marilyn Monroe. There would have been, although, you know, Marilyn was, she wasn't, was she dead by then? She was, she died after him?

I don't know. I think she did. So, oh, no, no, no, no, no. She died before because they reckon that Bobby and JFK had her bumped off.

So she's clear. She's clear. So I'll say Marilyn Monroe's sister. Mm-hmm. And I'll say Jack Ruby. It would be probably something to do with Vietnam. Who was the umbrella man? He's a bloke who sold umbrellas in Dallas.

He didn't have a lot of ambition. Yeah. No, the umbrella man is a man that still hasn't been identified, and I believe he was holding an umbrella. Yeah. And they still don't quite know who he is, and he's a person of great interest. He was holding an umbrella where?

In his hand, man. Oh, you mean when he was shot? No, he was on the grass, you know, holding an umbrella. JFK was shot, I mean, you're saying. Yeah, there was a guy and they wanted to talk to him, but they never found him. No one's ever identified him. What was the deal with the three tramps?

Do it like Seinfeld. What was the deal with the three tramps? They still wouldn't sleep with me. Hey-o! What's the deal? They're tramps, and there's three of them. they still wouldn't sleep with me hey they're tramps and there's three of them are these like old school trashy women or are these like homeless folk i have no clue mark oh are they like oh no they mean like they're they're like homeless like they're like charlie chaplin like they're on the back of a they just got off a train yeah yeah they're walking with a stick with a bit of a waddle.

I think we're referring to someone that might look homeless. Yeah, so the three homeless people, what was the deal with them? Yeah. They claim to have saw someone running away from the scene. Okay, a couple more questions here. Who was the other person allegedly killed by Oswald that same day? Oh, the heart of America. Yes.

Thank you for saying that. Last question. Has the JFK case been solved already? Will it ever be solved? What is your opinion? I believe that Oswald shot him. A lot of people think because the head goes like that. I saw Penn & Teller did a thing where they put a coconut in a stand.

They show that they can still shoot it and have the coconut fall backwards. I believe that Oswald did it alone. Look, it would have been great if he stood trial and we could have asked him, but Jack Ruby fucked that, didn't he?

Alright, Mark. How did Jim do on his knowledge of the JFK assassination? Zero through ten, ten's the best. Excellent. Well, he actually got a number of them right. Sometimes he answered the right answer, but to the wrong question. So I'll give him partial credit for some of that. So I think I, Jim, I think I'll give you, I think I'll give you a seven, especially

since you said Penn and Teller solved the case and you remembered the Seinfeld episode of the grassy knoll with the New York Mets, if you remember. Yeah. Look, it's the type of thing that if I knew I was having an exam on JFK, I would be able to ace it, but I need 24 hours. That's the whole idea. It's not the podcast.

It's the podcast. The podcast is you don't get any time. Yeah, yeah. Jack, how are you doing confidence? Look, last episode I got pressured into giving him a 10, but this time he totally earned a 10 without any pressure. 17. All right.

I'm pretty hungry. I'm going to give you 10. That's 27. What was the last meal you ate? When was it? And what was it? I had a salad with chicken on top of it today. Was it Chinese chicken salad? No. I like a Chinese with chicken on top of it today. Was it Chinese chicken salad?

No. I like a Chinese chicken salad. They put the chunks of wontons in. Yeah. I had one of them yesterday for lunch. You're the magic bullet. You want to know which one? Which one would you like to be?

He's the this one. The pokey poke. Pokey poke? All right. Even though that wasn't a category, we'll make you the magic bullet. All right, Mark. Year and date a category, we'll make you the magic bullet. All right, Mark. Year and date, location, JFK was assassinated. Jim said it was Dallas, Texas, 1962.

The top was down, so it was May 12th. Well, it was in Dallas, November 22nd, 1963. So think Thanksgiving. It's always around Thanksgiving. 1960. So I knew it was a year either way. You were close, yeah. But also November. I like the top down logic though

yeah buddy put the top up you're gonna fucking fuck up Jackie's hair I always guess how I would answer on these I wouldn't know I wouldn't even be close you're much closer than I would ever be on all these when you said 62 I was like pretty good 63 yeah

november i guess dallas can be fine look i know a lot about the beatles and i remember john lennon being interviewed in 64 yeah about the assassination of kennedy and i knew it happened in the 60s so it had to be one of those years okay and then who allegedly assassinated jfk says lee harvey oswald definitely assassinated him mark do you have an opinion on that? I do. I do think that Oswald was certainly the shooter, if not one of the shooters. But I'm fine with saying Lee Harvey Oswald was the assassin of JFK.

I'm with Jim on that. So you're not a conspiracy theorist? I'm a conspiracy theorist. I used to be. Sometimes I am. It depends on the thing. I'm not a conspiracy theorist? I'm a conspiracy theorist on things. I used to be. Sometimes I am. It depends on the thing. I'm not a conspiracy theorist at all. I'm not on this.

I'm this subject. I'm this subject. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was hanging out with Rhys Darby the other day. We did a showdown at Largo, and Rhys believes, I'm not saying anything off, you know, Rhys and I are good friends. Rhys believes in Bigfoot and all that type of stuff.

Loch Ness Monster too. Loch Ness Monster and all that stuff. And now he reckons that the fucking, the middle of the earth might be inhabited by people and there's water in there. And I'm like, check that. I'll give you Bigfoot. Yeah, I'm like, fucking have your fun with your Bigfoot.

He's got a Bigfoot caller. He's got like a thing that goes like that. I didn't know this. And like, he was like, what's this? What's this? We had to play a quiz. I said, is that like a duck caller? He goes,

no, Bigfoot caller. And he stretched it out and went. Wait, can we have Rhys on as an expert on Bigfoot? Yeah,

all day. We should definitely do that. All day Rhys will do it, right? And he goes, and we were like, don't fucking play it in here. He's going to come.

Where are you fucking? The show sold out, man. Also, he had it on him what at all times what country did the alleged assassin defect to and live in Oswald that is you said Russia 1954 mark well Soviet Union 1959 he defected he lived there until 1962 the Soviet Union that's right so what when he defected there so he was there 1962. The Soviet Union. That's right. He defected there. So he was there as a soldier and stuff and he just stayed on? Or was he like an ice skater in the Olympics?

How did he defect? He had left the Marines. I actually own his original discharge paperwork. He then goes over to the Soviet Union secretly. Nobody knew he was even going there. I own the letter he wrote his mother telling her, you're going to hear some things about me. I'm not where you think I am. And then I used to represent, he's now deceased, the State Department consular officer who worked

in Moscow at the time. And Oswald threw his passport at him and said, I defected the Soviet Union. He never did. He always stayed a U citizen because it's America. You've got to fill out forms in order to renounce your citizenship. So that was actually one reason why he was able to get back to the United States after he took a bride, had a kid, was disillusioned with Russia and came back in 62. Oh, so he's disillusioned with Russia. That's the thing about Russia. It's like, and he moved back to, was he always from Dallas?

Why did he move back to Dallas? Originally, New York, I think he was born, if I remember, lived in New Orleans, and his family was in Dallas. Right, right, right. So to go from the cold of Russia to being in November with a top down must have been... Delightful. No wonder he snapped.

So what is the significance of Oswald getting VD in Japan while serving for the U.S. Marines? So it was part of a conspiracy theory that I investigated about 30 years ago. His paperwork said he got it in the line of duty. And people thought there's no way being in the military that you could get VD in the line of duty. And people thought there's no way being in the military that you could get V.D. in the line of duty. So they thought that that meant that's why he was able to stay in Japan instead of go with his unit and then defect to the Soviet Union. It was part of an intelligence conspiracy to be a false defector to the Soviet Union. It actually just meant that he reported it properly to the medical authorities, so he was entitled to medical care through the Veterans Affairs hospitals for the rest of

his life. And, yeah, I don't know. I'm sure it wasn't a fun thing. I guess he had fun maybe getting the VD, I suppose. Okay, I have to interject here. You can get VD in the line of duty. How do you think James bond gets most of his information he doesn't do it by just chatting to the women he fucks them good and then they pass off all the information the amount of vd that james bond would have gotten in the line of duty i'd say seven times eight times for sure seven times yeah he's all cleared up though shot i'm sure q has some technology to get rid of it.

Q has technology that makes him into a different person every decade. Yeah. And himself too. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. We all know that I'm a big fan of therapy. You want to be like me, the perfect, ended, finished model? Well, I'm not a finished product. I'm not.

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What happened to Oswald and what was unique about it? He said he got killed by Jack Ruby, was about to stand trial. He was a nightclub owner. Ruby's our girl's second best friend was the name of the nightclub. Yeah. Well, so I guess it was unique for Ruby that he killed someone. It's the only one we know that he killed. But he did it on live television.

The first live homicide that anyone has ever seen. While JFK is being buried in Arlington Cemetery on Sunday after the Friday of the assassination, and as Jim described, Oswald's being transferred, Ruby goes down the garage steps of the police headquarters in Dallas and uses a.38 revolver and plugs him one in the gut. Ruby was a nightclub owner, but even better, he was a strip club owner of the Carousel Club, and he had lots of strippers. In fact, before he was over at the police department to kill Oswald, he was sending one of his girls a money gram to help her out with like $25, $20, something like that.

to help her out with $25, $20, something like that. And he lived a long time in prison, right? And people interviewed him, and he never changed his story. And correct me if I'm wrong, but he believed himself just to be a patriot who was just doing what he thought the public wanted, correct? So there were a number of theories. He said he wanted to show that Jews were tough. Jacob Rubenstein was his real name. And there were issues of Dallas being anti-Semitic very much back in the early 60s. There was a public sentiment that he did it to prevent Jackie

from coming to trial of Oswald. They want to spare her that. But that seems to have been a legal strategy that his his lawyers gave him. Ironically, he even though he was convicted, not not a shock, right? Live television. His conviction was reversed on appeal because of unfair pretrial publicity. And he was set to be retried. But he died in prison on January 3rd 1967 of cancer a little footnote uh his original trial lawyer uh Melvin Belli was also a villain in a an original Star Trek episode what yeah he was a very well-known trial so did Jack ever break on his story or did it just he just sort of talked through a lot yeah just kept them going never did he also asked for a lie detector test

which uh polygraph which which he passed he met with earl warren uh in prison um he doodled a lot if you go online to auctions you can often buy some of his doodles he also had something that i crossed out in the dinner party. From his book, Jews are Tough. That's what he said. About his rabbi, Jack Ruby's rabbi was the... What does it say here?

I crossed it out. Because I think we were having that at the dinner party. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, no, I crossed it out for that. There's a lot of dinner party facts here, but all right. Yeah, yeah. yeah. No, no, I crossed it out for that. There's a lot of dinner party facts there, but all right. No, yeah. Well, we'll keep going. Back up here. Okay, so who is Henry Wade?

He said it was the cop who was holding the arm of Oswald when he was shot. That's not correct. No, that was Jim Lavelle, really nice guy. I had lunch with him once. He only died, actually,

a couple of years ago at like 97 years old. Henry Wade was the district attorney for Dallas, and he is who prosecuted Ruby and would have prosecuted Oswald because killing a president wasn't a federal crime yet. It was after Kennedy's assassination. And even though, as Jim mentioned, there had been prior ones, Lincoln, Garfield in 1881, McKinley in 1901 it was still a state crime until after kennedy and kennedy's on the lincoln and when lincoln died in the ford yeah and then um i moved this up here from the dinner privacy he has some henry way there was also something significant about him right yeah so uh roe v wade which is not the significance that it used to be. Obviously, the Supreme Court decision regarding abortion,

Wade, Roe v. Wade. Wade is that Wade because the case started in Texas and he was the one trying to prevent the abortion. Oh, I always thought it was Dwayne Wade because his wife got upset because he kept on knocking up people. Dwayne Wade. Dwayne Wade, yeah. Gabriel Union. The timeline's off. He's the pro abortion he's like come on this is gonna be one this is gonna upset you that you didn't remember this so then I've seen documentaries who took the most

famous film known showing JFK's assassination you said Oliver Stone the correct answer answer yeah and so you had stone but you didn't get that for a later question, which we'll talk to. It was Abraham Zapruder, the Zapruder film. He was a local dressmaker, and he had his home camera there that he took. And actually, the public never saw the Zapruder film until 12 years later in 1975 on Geraldo Rivera. Oh, really? I came to this country late, right? I've been here for 15 Rivera. Oh, really? I came to this country late, right?

I've been here for 15 years. There's a lot of things. All I see is Geraldo Rivera. He's always just a bloke with a tash that shows up. But then I find it's always like he used to have a show where he was just like opening tombs of gangsters and shit. It was one where he gets hit by a chair. It was like a trashy top chair. Yeah, he had a bit of blood coming off him. The guy lived a life.

I didn't even know he had a show in 75. Wait, what year was it? 75. Yeah, he had a talk show. It was, I guess, one of the early talk shows. And he had a researcher, author, who you can still find in Dealey Plaza giving presentations to people who brought essentially a stolen purloined copy of the film uh that Life magazine had originally purchased for 150 000 and they aired it live uh on the show and and you know it shows it's that famous scene you see President's head go you know back into the left back into the left as seinfeld talked about uh with the

new york mets episode in the early 90s and did and and and so what okay so in 1963 what did we watch on the news if we didn't have that for like walter cronkite you know making the announcement that the president uh is now dead uh he was shot at about 12 30 uh central standard time but no footage no no footage there wasn't a still photo no no um no no footage uh there are a number of films um only really the one showing the assassination itself there are a number of still photographs that have been published over the years uh other movies of the Dealey Plaza itself and the still images of the Zapruder film were published in Life Magazine, but the film itself wasn't shown because people thought

it was too horrific. I need to ask about the book depository a bit. What is a book depository? We were just talking about they sold school supplies right so is this like when you have you have a textbook right you finish with the textbook you give it back uh to the school and the school can sell it on or you can get secondhand or something like that is it that or is it they were just filled with textbooks or was it just stationary my recollection is they sold textbooks. Okay. This I don't fucking get because I've been to Dallas.

We were just there talking about this. I've been to Dallas. This is prime real estate. This is the center of the town. If you want to fucking keep books, don't put it in a high rise in the center of the town. That's where business people should go to work. Right? You know where you keep books? In a factory on the centre of town. That's where business people should go to work, right? You know, where you keep books?

In a factory on the outskirts. Yep. Where no one fucking lives in a big warehouse. The 60s were bullshit, mate. If you couldn't make it in life back in the 60s, if you couldn't buy yourself a house, fucking become a millionaire, you weren't putting any effort in.

None. Because they were storing fucking books in the middle of town. Anyone with an ounce of... That means any building that stores books should be worth, in today's money, $100,000. In today's money. What do you mean in today's money? In today's money. It should be a shed on the outskirts of town, right?

Yeah. That means that they were like, well, what else were we meant to do with the building? The building was there. It was laying empty. Store some books, I say. Right? Because fuck me. No wonder.

Name me another high-rise building where a guy can get his fucking gun. Actually, Mandalay Bay. I'll shut up. I feel terrible. I would have been to something else. Actually, Mandalay Bay. I'll shut up. I feel terrible. I would have been to something else. Yeah, but you know what I'm saying? They don't store books there, though. The reason why Patton Oswalt...

No, Patton Oswalt. Although there's some theories. No. Although the reason why Lee Harvey Oswald... I love Patton Oswalt. Boy, I love Patton. The reason why Lee Harvey Oswald, I love Patton Oswalt. Boy, I love Patton. The reason why Lee Harvey Oswald could do the assassination is because it's just like, what are you doing?

I'm going up to the sixth floor, hanging out with the books. Okay, have fun. All right, bye-bye. Where's that big bag you have? Bye-bye. Make sure you have the window open. It gets a bit book smelly in there. Books.

Okay. And have I got some good points there? Excellent points. I mean, I wish you had been able to make those in 1963 because the president probably would be alive. Yeah. First of all. There wouldn't have been any place to shoot him.

Oswald would have been working down by the train yards. Yeah, yeah. He would have been out in the fucking boonies in his book fucking. That cunt shouldn't have been any place to shoot him. Oswald would have been working down by the train yards. Yeah, yeah. He would have been out in the fucking boonies in his book fucking. That cunt shouldn't have been in a high-rise building. Oh, wait. Did he work there? Yeah. Oh, he worked there.

He had just come back from living in Russia. And we're like, would you like to have a job in a high-rise building in the center of town? Fucking how shady must have the cunts been who worked in the warehouses on the outskirts? You love the outskirts. Look, it's a big place, Texas. You've got all the book space you need. Yeah, it's mostly outskirts. All the book space.

It's not even hilly. It's flat. Fucking book it up. Many conspiracy theorists believe one or more shots originated from the grassy knoll. I've seen the grassy knoll. I've never heard the term knoll again it's a little bit of grass i've been i've been to where kennedy was shot there's an x on the road and i believe this might be an urban myth but i believe that um about once a year someone gets run over from standing on the x because it's quite a busy road i don't know

i heard that what was your impression the first time you went there the dealy plaza what was your impression the first time you went there the Dealey Plaza what was your first thought my first thought is and I look I look okay I once shot a sniper rifle with the guy who shot bin Laden and I did it better than he did that's being documented that was documented that is documented but as a person who doesn't fire guns um and arguably a person who's anti-gun, some would say, I think he could fully shoot him from that, from the book depository. I've never been.

Piece of piss. Every time we're there, I keep meaning to go, but then we're just in and out when I'm with you. I've been, piece of piss. So he shot from the book depository.

Depository. Yeah. The book depository. Yeah, the book depository. It so he shot from the book suppository. Depository. Yeah. The book suppository? Yeah, the suppository is a whole different thing. The sperm bank. That was in a castle in the middle of town. Well, then why is the grassy knoll important? Because they believe with the magic bullet,

there had to be a second fire. The second person would have been on the grassy knoll. The second person would have been on the grassy knoll. And there was people that walked over the grassy knoll who haven't been identified yet and got it well that's the next question what is the magic bullet jim said a bullet shouldn't they said it shouldn't have turned a corner another person was hit he thinks it was a secret service guy yeah yeah so for one dealing plaza is a lot smaller than what people ever expect when they go down there and oswald

while not the best shot in the Marines was still a qualified marksman and because it's such a small location with the rifle that he had which was an Italian Mannlicher Carcano from World War two it wasn't that difficult a shot quite frankly at least in my view well now it's good grassys were that supposedly there might have been a second shooter. And the single bullet theory is that this one almost near pristine bullet impacted the president and then Governor Connolly. John Connolly was the governor of Texas who was sitting in front of the president or a little bit in front of because the limousine

seats weren't directly in front of each other which is one of the fallacies that people think and it caused about seven wounds to both men and it's a very nearly intact bullet though it does have some damage to it but many people just can't get over the fact that one bullet might have caused all those wounds. And what do you believe? I think, one, the bullet directionally is definitely feasible. To go through both men, it lines up directly to the sixth floor window where Oswald was said to have been. You know, whether it could have been committed, made all the wounds,

I have prided myself in saying, you know, look, I'm an expert in certain things. I'm not a ballistics expert. I'm not a medical expert. I may know the evidence. So I defer to those that do. And there are ballistic experts and medical experts who say absolutely that that bullet could have caused it. I will say Arlen Specter, the former senator from Pennsylvania who was a staff attorney on the Warren Commission, he came up with the theory, basically. That was my cat who just hissed at me there. I think she got pissed off about the single bullet theory.

And it was basically a legal theory. It was taking the conclusions and figuring out what facts would fit. So it made sense. And did Governor John Connolly, did he die too? I don't remember. No, he survived and he lived until I think 1993, if I remember correctly, because we tried a group of us tried to have his burial delayed so they could remove the shrapnel that was still within his wrist and lodged in his bone. Because that would have answered the question about whether the single bullet theory was true or not or valid. Because if there was more shrapnel still in his arm, in his wrist, then it couldn't have been the bullet. But they didn't listen to us and they buried him. So now we'll never know. Wouldn't that still be there? Yeah.

I smell a movie. Yeah, it could still be there. So if we can get him exhumed. I tried to exhume John Wilkes Booth. I could have been your expert on the Lincoln assassination Booth. I actually represent Edwin Booth's family. And we tried to exhume John back in the mid-1990s. So if we exhume Governor Connolly, we might be able to answer the single bullet theory.

There you go. Nick Cage, that's what I was saying. Where are you? It just sounds like a movie. It does. The name of the entity created by President Lyndon Johnson to investigate the assassination results, was it called Shoot in the Headgate? And Jim says he was definitely shot in the head.

What are the results? That's true. It could have been shooting. It probably was the subtitle, but it was the President's commission to assassinate John president John or President Kennedy which was the Warren Commission named after its chairman Earl Warren who was the Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court and they found what evidence that he was shot in the head. Yeah, okay That they did that Oswald was the lone gunman they can they couldn't find any other evidence of a conspiracy essentially that it was

they couldn't they couldn't identify a motive for Oswald but they did conclude that it was Oswald and then he fired three shots he missed one and two shots hit single bullet and then the headshot. Did Oswald have mates? Did he have friends? Not really. That's enough for me. Because I can't get people to show up to my barbecues. Yeah.

Let alone to shoot someone with. You know what I'm saying? And I got a few friends. Wait, so you're saying it proves that he shot him because he has no friends. Yeah. It's hard to get he has no friends. Yeah. It's hard to get people to do shit. It's true. It's hard to get a pickleball game going. You're playing pickleball

now? I can't get one going. You want to? I didn't know you were trying to. I guess. I'll make it happen. Didn't think anyone would say yes. I'm in. But you know what I mean? If he's got no mates and he just came back from Russia, moved into a new town, how quickly can you get that second person? It's not like the internet now, it's fine. No, but you know what I mean? Like, if he's got no mates and he just came back from Russia, moved into a new town, how quickly can you get that second person?

And it's not like the internet now where it's like, I hate JFK, I hate JFK too. We're on the dark web. Let's chat. Right? There's none of that. Oh, there'd be so many videos, too, of the assassination now. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, yeah, no, be caught in everyone's phones. We'd catch the second bullet. All day. You know how we'd catch the people who... Probably live stream. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They'd be on in everyone's phones. We'd catch the second bullet all day. You know how we'd catch the people who... Probably live stream. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They'd be on TikTok. Yeah.

They'd be like, he's got my gun. That's true. Step one, get a gun. Here I am. Grassy Noel. The book depository. I have that.

I, yeah, I... This rifle will alter your brain chemistry. I had a friend when I was a kid who was a pothead. It was called Noel, and we called him Grassy Noel. That was a good nickname. That's really good. That's really good. Besides Chief Justice Earl Warren, members of the Warren Commission,

you said the Warren, his cousin, and a rabbit. A rabbit, his cousin, Warren, other Warrens. Carry on. Sorry, Matt. I cut you off off i had to do that that's okay it was people like gerald ford uh future president he was a member of congress uh alan dulles former director of the cia and there were other senators and very prestigious folks who served in presidential administrations going back to World War II. That's who Alan Dulles is. You go to all these airports. Dulles Airport.

And that one's in Texas. Dulles. In D.C. That's named after John Foster Dulles, who I believe was his brother. He was the former secretary. Dulles has a hole in the head airport. When did Congress brother he was the former secretary has hole in the head um when did congress investigate jfk's assassination and what were the results

jim said it would have been quick 1963 results still shot in the head and that jockey was covered in blood now it took a little longer than that there were there several. We had the Rockefeller Commission in around 75, the Church Committee in 1976, but it was really the House Select Committee on Assassinations, which was between 1976 and 1979 that did the full investigation or a fuller investigation of the president's assassination. This is a bit of a dark question, fuller investigation of the president's assassination this is a bit of a dark question um but do you think this could happen again or do you think that we've made enough changes now to the security of uh presidents now that it's it's impossible to do this because like like they would never drive along in a convertible these cars have bulletproof uh bulletproof things they have blood in the doorway sacks of the president's blood in the doorways

from keeping cold. You know what I mean? Could this ever happen again? Sadly, I think it could. I represent a lot of even current Secret Service agents and officers. You know, look, there's weapons now. They shoot further further uh you know you can use uh you know grenade launchers from a much further distance uh i i guess in some ways i'm a little bit shocked that it's never happened since although obviously there was a attempt on reagan's life in 81 but it if basically if someone wanted to kill the president united states as long as they didn't

care about the fact that they would probably die if not get caught it probably could be done now now they would never let there be within a radius of a mile windows open like that would they or on the main street like they would go around and check all these buildings first my question is how did we let this happen well you know remember a few years ago during the obama administration there were folks who got into the white house for a party without an invitation they just bluffed their way in i'll tell you what happened on january 6th it's going to blow your fucking mind if you think that's bad i remember well and you know you were right when you were talking about the the weather uh it was raining in dallas and if it had not stopped raining it was raining like 20 minutes

earlier when he had landed he would have had the top up uh instead of having the convertible down and that would have made obviously the difference in his having the convertible down, and that would have made, obviously, the difference in his life, at least on that day. So why couldn't we talk? Like, when you miss out on being able to talk to these people who are the killers and stuff like that and finding out all the information, because I would have liked Oswald to go, if the top was up, would have you still gone through it?

Did you have a plan B? You know what I mean? But he, what was, because he said he was a patsy, right? What was his excuse for why he was caught? And what was his excuse, if any, for why he was in Russia? Well, he was very disillusioned with the United States, which is why he defected. He was a Marxist.

He was a supporter of Castro. He tried to go to Cuba, actually, in September and October of 63 through Mexico City, but he wasn't able to get a visa to go. He was only 24 years old, which kind of blows your mind. He looks older. But he was a fairly intelligent guy, just very misguided in his ideological views. He looked rough as fuck for 24. Yeah, 24 is terrible. I've seen some rough-looking 24s. This guy is 24?

How hard was Oswald's fucking pipe around when he was a kid? Yeah, he looks terrible. He had a rough life. Give me a look at him. This isn't 24. I mean, this is like... He looks terrible. Yeah, I always thought he was bald or something, but I guess...

No, I guess he's... Not right there. He looks... Yeah, but he's just been roughed up in a prison cell. Did you find me a 24-year-old that looks that old? Just go look at The Bachelor, I guess. Those guys look so old. He would have been a smoker as well.

This is the thing about smoking. I started smoking at seven. Don't smoke. You're going to burn the building down. He's up there in the book depository. No problem. And the results of the House Select Committee on Assassination, what did they say? that it captured the sound of the shots and that they heard a fourth shot, which would have had to have mean or meant that there was a second gunman. Now, so they concluded that his death might have

been the result or probably the result of a conspiracy. But they went down the litany of everybody who they thought would have been responsible. And they said Cuba didn't do it. Soviet Union didn't do it. The FBI didn't do it cia didn't do it johnson didn't do it uh so they had no idea who did it but they said because of the the audio tape the dicta belt as they called it that maybe there was a second gunman but then further research showed that the timing of the tape was off and that it most likely was not the sound of a shot. So they basically didn't change much of any conclusion that the Warren Commission had reached 15 years earlier. Apart from...

And school shootings are a different thing. Like, apart from Columbine, is the only one I can think of, there's never a second shooter. Think of a time there's assassination, there was a second shooter. And you see a shooting now, the news turns on, and they go, oh, they're still cautious because there may be a second shooter. Because what's the benefit of having the second shooter?

What do you get out of it? Especially with the Kennedy assassination, you just get to shoot him twice? Well, make sure a job gets done. Yeah, but he shot three times. Bang, bang, bang. Yeah. If you can't fucking do it,

it's not like, that's like going, I'm going to bake a cake. I've got a second baker here in case the cake doesn't fucking work. You just back yourself to bake a cake, man. Okay. What event led to the creation by Congress

of the John F kennedy assassination records collection act of 1992 there was a release of millions of documents and previously had been withheld jim said people were chatting about reagan being shot and they were like we haven't even finished a jfk project if that's right no that's not right you had said the answer earlier and of course it's right behind me with oliver stone's jfk film which came out in 1991 and and brought everybody thinking about the assassination again and pushing to the answer of what really happened and that's what led to the congress enacting the legislation oh so it was the film that's cool is the is the film quite accurate or is the film got a bit of artistic liberty going on yeah the film is a great film as a film goes but it's also incredibly

misleading there are scenes where he would shoot to black and white or shift to black and white to show that this was conjecture but then he would show scenes in color that were completely fabricated and made up like Pesci's character, David Ferry being murdered, which they showed in color, which he committed suicide. There's only suspicion that he was murdered, but no evidence of it. And of course, they change characters around and things like that. But it's a great film and it's a great soundtrack. And it led to all the records being released, but it's not an accurate historical drama.

I had another mate called Oliver, who was also a pothead, called Oliver Stoned. He used to hang out with Grassy Noel. I hope that second part's true the first bit was yeah yeah you're weakening the first one what is the connection of the new orleans district attorney jim garrison to jfk's assassination jim said he was the guy hanging off the back of the car. Why would that be him? He's a district attorney. He's like, let me jump on the back of the car. Do you remember the guy that jumps on the back of the car?

I know what you're talking about. And he hangs on like he's going to make any difference. I feel like he's a secret service. Yeah, that cunt's a hindrance. The president's shot, mate. Move on. You didn't jump in front of the bullet. What do you mean move on?

Right now, that bloke should be looking up dry cleaners for Jackie O. She wasn't called Jackie O back then. All right. So that was Jackie O's Secret Service agent, Clint Hill, who is still alive. Most of the agents from that day, unfortunately, have passed away. I said I represented two of the agents who were in that follow-up car uh with clint hill who then ran up on the the limousine and pushed jackie back in uh she was supposedly retrieving a piece of the president's brain his skull that had been on the uh the truck the back part of the

car uh after being shot off and he pushed her uh back in uh so and that bit of the brain just held memories of fucking marilyn monroe that's all it was and jim was absolutely correct about the dress she she purposely kept her dress on soaked in blood so that people could see what they did to her husband yeah that was very intentional. Kevin Costner played Jim Garrison. Sorry, guys. Jim Garrison, who was the District Attorney of New Orleans, who prosecuted a man named Clay Shaw

back in 1967 for conspiring to kill the President of the United States. He was acquitted two years later in 1969. He sued Garrison for defamation but before the case was over he unfortunately died himself and defamation cases die with the death of the person. So Jim you can defame anyone

you want who's dead. You don't have to worry about that. That's Warren so alive. We don't know that. Warren Bong. Warren Bong. He can defame the dead. Alright, there's been some things I wanted to say about Muhammad Ali over the years. I thought he was still alive. No, he's dead. No, he's dead. And also, I don't want to defame Muhammad Ali. For anyone who wants to come out here, I'm pro.

He's a cool guy. Yeah, cool guy. He had his arms shaking. He's holding the flame. But he was burning himself. Who have been some of the prominent people that were accused of assassinating JFK? Some said Marilyn Monroe's sister. Marilyn Monroe's sister.

That's a good guess. I don't know if she had a sister. Did she have a sister? Not that we know about. Didn't she grow up in an orphanage or something? Norma Jean Baker? She didn't have a... We've got to do an episode on her.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, that would be a good one. I have a client who wrote a book on her death, so I can hook you guys up. Hook us up. Hook it up. I'm like, man, you watch a Marilyn Monroe movie all these years later.

Yeah. You get it. I get it. What, an erection? No, yeah, yeah. They have the Warren Commission. I still got it. No, no, no.

She was something else, that woman. And it wasn't just the looks. It was the va-va-voom about the person. The va-va-va-voom. The sparkle in the eyes. If you guys ever go to Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, a client of mine runs a museum called the Gettysburg Museum of History, which you would think is about the Civil War, which it is.

But he also has Marilyn Monroe's bra. So if you want to visit the bra uh one of her bras you watch all the getty's stuff at the end here's a bra of marilyn monroe that's quite uplifting a lot of people accused of killing the president um jackie o was accused of killing the president saying that she knew about the affairs and she wanted she hired oswald to take him out president Johnson was accused of course Fidel Castro and Nikolai Khrushchev you know any any number of people the Israelis at one point in a fringe anti-semitic type of theory was also come up with it you know lots of different people over the years uh elvis maybe even uh i'm so let's go or he's living with him on an island let's go through

the theory that jackie i that jackie onassis uh did it right well she wasn't jesse jackie kennedy at the time so she would have met oswald this bloke who'd been in russia for a couple years yeah and went uh my husband's having affairs. Can you kill him? How would you like to kill him? Blow his head off from a distance whilst he's sitting next to me. I won't be accused of covering his blood. I'll be covering his blood.

But I could miss and blow your head off. Worth it. But he's fucked a lot of women. Yeah. There's also, of course, the mafia theory is a big one. This two guys, Sam Giancana and Carlos Marcello. And I mentioned in the beginning, I represented Judith Exner, who was one of Kennedy's mistresses.

And she was also, she passed away, unfortunately. She was also the mistress of Sam Giancana, the mob boss in Chicago. They were both sharing the same woman. So then he's brother gets assassinated in 66? 68, right? So his brother gets assassinated a little bit later.

And then obviously his nephew who's running for the Democrats, someone tried to assassinate him by treading on his vocal cords or something. Have you heard that? I'm trying to talk. Oh, you're talking about Robert. He has a gravelly voice. Is that why? You can't run for

president. You can't run for it. You've got to be able to talk. The whole thing's talking. It's not gravelly like your one's gravelly. He's obviously had his larynx punched in by several people. It sounds painful. It sounds painful to talk. It sounds like the latter stages of something bad

they're early stages either way it's not good um who was the umbrella man jim said a guy that sold umbrellas and still has not been identified he was on the grassy knoll is that correct partially correct so there there is a guy you can see him in some of the film who's standing there it's a beautiful day by this point and who's standing there. It's a beautiful day by this point. And he's standing there holding an umbrella, a black umbrella. And some people theorized that one of two things, that that umbrella was actually a weapon, that it could shoot the president as he drove by, or it was a signal to the shooters that when the umbrella went up, you know, fire, the limousine would be in the line of sight. The guy was identified by the House Select Committee on Assassinations.

He testified before them in the late 70s, and he said that it was a protest statement regarding JFK's father, Joseph, regarding JFK's father, Joseph, who had been the ambassador to England in World War II, that it was a protest for his support for Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain. I guess there must have been something to do with an umbrella. I think Chamberlain used to hold an umbrella a lot. So this was just a protest in his own mind, because I don't think anybody else got it. Certainly not at the time. Of course not. But it became a theory of conspiracy for the longest time, years.

Like you have to put the umbrella up because this guy's looking through a site. He's looking through a site. The cars. At the president's head. I reckon I can see his head quite clearly here. Let's check with the umbrella. Yeah, he fully agrees. Thank God I brought him.

Fuck the umbrella. Boy, I love these books. Whatever the umbrella guy was getting paid was too much. Yeah. The three tramps. What's the deal with the three tramps? They claim they saw someone running away from the scene. What's the deal with the three tramps?

They claim they saw someone running away from the scene. Now, so there's a railroad yard train tracks right behind the building. And these three tramps were there. And there's photographs of them being arrested, surrounded by police. They kind of dress like tramps, but they looked actually pretty well dressed and they weren't in handcuffs. So lots of people theorize that that these guys were actually the shooters. Two of them looked like people like Frank Sturgis and E. Howard Hunt, who were connected to the CIA and Watergate, the other gate that happened a decade later. But there was no police report of any of these people being arrested. And actually, it finally happened in the early 90s

that a researcher found the police report. I helped track down one of the families of these tramps, and it turned out that they were just tramps. They were hobos. They were just riding the railways. They happened to stop in Dallas. Well, that was the thing back in the day that like that well-dressed is you watch footage of the fucking depression and people are queuing up for soup in in three-piece suits you know it's just it's look

and now it's women just wear yoga pants everywhere we've come a long way. What's the difference between a tramp, a hobo, a homeless? Okay. A hobo is a person who's homeless and does a lot of stuff on trains. A tramp is the same person but puts out more. Okay. I always like the word hobo. Not like I don't want people to be homeless. The word hobo is like a clown, a homeless clown. I like I don't want people to be homeless I just the word hobo is mine it's like a clown a homeless clown I took that as you want

people to be home that's all I'm hearing okay sorry shut up who was the other person allegedly killed by Oswald in the same day the heart of America America Jim said and Jack I mean Jim clearly gets some points for that right the death of Camelot happened that day I can't sing the song you don't want to hear me sing it but it was JD Tippett who was a Dallas police officer who was shot by Oswald while he was trying to go somewhere else we're not entirely sure why in fact he was never charged with the assassination of the president. He was charged with the murder of Officer

Tippett. Why was he never charged with it? Because he didn't go to trial? They didn't get to it in time because he was obviously then killed by Ruby. They were already searching for him. He was the only one of the employees from the Texas School Book Depository building who left the building after were already searching for him he was the only one of the employees from the texas school book depository building who who left the building after the assassination and people were wondering well where's lee uh and so they were they were starting to look for him and there were a number of witnesses to him shooting officer tippett and the police uh found him in a movie theater

and and jim you started to mention some of the coincidences between the Lincoln assassination and the Kennedy assassination. So Booth ran from a theater to a barn sort of warehouse, and Oswald went from a warehouse to a theater where he was caught watching a film. A warehouse, a high-rise building in the middle of the city. I love when you get hung up on something that really upsets you how america was running is beyond me how you'd won the second world war with book depositories in the middle of your city

um and the last question has the case ever been solved whatever we solve jim believes oswald shot him and he did it alone uh would have been great if he stood trial but you also believe yeah you also believe i i'm i'm with jim look there there are still some questions that have not been answered uh a police officer dallas officer ran up the grassy knoll went around the back of the fence and there were a couple of gentlemen in suits and hats because that's as jim said everybody dressed uh who flashed uh secret service identification and there were no secret service agents who were uh outside of the limousine um motorcade they're no no one on the ground uh it we think that those were just treasury agents who worked nearby and they would have had the same agency uh but they've never been identified.

So there are still questions and I'm open to having someone prove to me that someone other than Oswald participated, but I'm with Jim. As far as I'm concerned, I'm not losing any sleep and this case has been solved. Okay. Now's the part of our show called Dinner Party Facts. We ask our expert to give us a fact, something obscure, interesting about the topic that our audience can use to impress people. You got several here. I think a couple we might have touched on, but yeah. Yeah, so let me finish off one of them that you had touched on. There's a lot of really cool one and sort of the Hollywood connection. And you mentioned Forrest Jack Ruby's rabbi. So his rabbi, who died not too long ago, actually may even still be alive. I'm trying to remember.

So I don't hope that in defame him. He's the father of actor Jonathan Silverman, who was the co-star of Weekend at Bernie's, which, as far as I'm concerned, is one of the best films ever made. And actor Woody Harrelson's father, most people don't know this, was a hitman. Literally, he killed a federal judge. And he claimed while in prison that he was also one of the assassins of President Kennedy. And actually, another one to add to that, one of Oswald's former Marine buddies, or in the same squad, at least, or platoon, was a man named Donald Bellisario, who was a famous television producer. He created the show Quantum Leap.

And there's a two-part episode about Lee Harvey Oswald and the assassination because of that. So that's one. One other one, I'm not sure if it would be a dinner party conversation, depending on what you're eating. But the question, or maybe after you've eaten, because it's a question of what happened to JFK's brain. They removed it as part of the autopsy. That is routine. They weigh it, what was left of it. And it could also be evidence as to how many bullets went through it, transverse

through it, as well as the pathway of the bullet. When the National Archives was trying to catalog everything it had about the assassination, three years later in 1966, they couldn't find the brain. It was gone. And so there's lots of theories about, you know, oh, they destroyed the brain, you know, to cover up a conspiracy. It is presumed and believed that Robert Kennedy took the brain. And there is a photo of the reburial in 1967 of the president's coffin at Arlington Cemetery to make sure nobody could ever get to it. coffin at Arlington Cemetery to make sure nobody could ever get to it. And right next to the feet of RFK and Teddy Kennedy is a little steel box. And it's believed that the brain is in that box and they buried it back in with the president.

All right. I assume most of it was just vacuumed up. Yeah. So we just actually dumped it. Well, we don't need this anymore. Like, do you want the wax as well? Yeah, but I do need the inside cleaned. The resell the car?

Yeah. What happened to the car? The car is, I believe, on display in Detroit, Michigan. I think at the Ford Motor Company, one of the museums. The Ford Museum. I've seen it there. Yeah, it's a really cool museum. It's a car museum. It's like a huge car museum.

And as soon as you said that is there still blood in it i don't think no but you can buy there's always in auctions little swaths of the limousine seat stained with blood that is i don't know if it's true if they're real or not but you can often buy them for like ten fifteen thousand dollars for like $10,000, $15,000. That's something to have framed. Kennedy's blood. Pretty cool. Don't ask me why, but I needed to have a wink.

Thanks, Mark. Please visit Mark's website. It's MarkZaid.com. Again, that's Z-A-I-D for Zaid. And follow him on Twitter, MarkSZaidESQ, and also on threads at S-P-Y-A-T- threads at spy att ny for more cool stuff thanks again for being here mark that was awesome no thanks guys really appreciate it no worries man that was awesome i really enjoyed that uh i i uh if you had a party yeah someone walks up there someone goes uh i got the president's brain god i don't know

about that and then go which president yeah and walk away did you see me say asking that they did that with einstein that was a running thing because they kept his brain and and some professor had it in his office for years, just sitting in a corner. You can visit part of it in Philadelphia in what's called the, I can never pronounce it properly, the Muter or Muter Museum, M-U-T-T-E-R. There's slices of Einstein's brain. I've been there too. Not allowed to take pictures.

Was his brain big or something? Was it a good looking brain? It was apparently pretty normal. Average brain. Knew it. Or it was Abby Normal. We keep going on these tangents forever. Good night, Stryon.

Let's get out of here. All right, Mark. Thanks a lot. This will come out a week from tomorrow, I think. Yeah, a week from tomorrow. Okay. We'll tag you on Twitter. Thanks a lot. This will come out a week from tomorrow, I think. Yeah, a week from tomorrow. Okay. We'll tag you on Twitter. And thanks again.

And I know there's some other stuff we talked about, so we'll definitely have you on as a guest again. I'll talk to you about that, but probably a little bit of space in between there. But you had some other cool ideas. Can I ask a quick question? We'd love it. We'd love it.

And Jim, I actually will see you on Friday. He's coming to your show. Oh! Oh, well, Jack's sorting out some backstage tickets. He's already. It's already done? Well, he already got them. I bought them.

Yeah, yeah, but organize backstage so he can go get some passes. So go to Will Call. We'll have a couple. How many people are you bringing? Two of us. Two of us. Okay, we'll have two backstage passes for you. I'd recommend coming back before the show, not not afterwards because afterwards i do a meet and greet so

that sort of takes up an hour and you and also i'll be at that already i'll be there too well i'm sorting you out both ends man come back before the show and we'll make sure you get some drinks so you can have some free drinks so you can take them into the theater and you don't have to line up that's the least i can do and city had a question yeah yeah i'm curious mark um since we got you on the line um what do you think about the book mortal error did you ever read or i'm sure you've had some research of that so that's the secret service agent i represented yeah george hickey and we sued saint martin's press for that uh piece of shit book oh wow to claim that uh this that the agent who was in the follow-up car with clint hill

and holding an ar-15 that when the driver of kennedy's vehicle braked because he did unfortunately um that george fell forward and pulled the trigger at trigger accidentally. And that was the headshot. That was the theory. The book came out in 92 because Oliver Stone's film had just come out and George Hickey was still alive. He's passed away now.

And the thought process of the publisher was, well, even if this is a garbage book, hopefully we'll make so much money on the book and we'll just pay off Hickey and he'll go away. Well, the book bombed and then we still sued and got him some money as a result as well. But it's a garbage theory again when i say how small dealey plaza was when you guys ever go there and you'll see people in the crowd were literally just feet away from the limousine on both sides of the road yes so to think that a secret service agent could have accidentally fired an automatic weapon an ar-15 and nobody would have noticed it's kind of crazy yeah totally i totally get you yeah great all right mark thanks a lot um i won't be there but uh have fun at the show this week jim will see you there and i'll talk to you again soon

okay sounds good guys all right thanks again take care thank you thank you