I Don't Know About That - Memory

Episode Date: December 21, 2021

In this episode, the team discusses memory with Dean of Research and Professor at Tufts University and President of the SPARK Society, Dr. Ayanna Thomas. Follow Dr. Ayanna Thomas on Twitter @AyannaKim ! Go to JimJefferies.com to buy tickets to Jim's upcoming tour, The Moist Tour.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

whiskers on kittens white woolen mittens are these a few of my favorite things we might find out and i don't know about that with jim jeffries is it your favorite things i don't know it's what julie ands said. She said that these things were a few of her favorite things. She was just a fucking nun who never had something in her. I was talking to my brother yesterday. We're coming to you live, of course, from the world-famous Hollywood Improv. We're not live at all. We're not live.

No, we're live. We're live. We recorded a week in advance for Hollywood Improv. Hey, Christmas is coming. What better gift could you have than buying tickets to see Jim Jeffries? Go to jimjeffries.com. Maybe you live in Canada. I've got loads of Canadian dates.

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June and July, right? Yeah, June and July. I'm going to be going over there. But, yeah, all across America, there's some Boston dates, there's Columbus dates. Des Moines, Iowa. Let's bring a podcast out there. Washington, Des Moines, all these type of things,

all these different cities. Go to jimjeffries.com. It's a great gift. Great gift. People love tickets for the person that has everything. They don't have me. They don't have me. So, you know, even for the fussy Christmas purchase,

tickets to things are always a good thing. Yeah, speaking of that, January 20th, Punchline, Philadelphia. Some guy named Forrest Shaw is going to be there. Ooh, he's good. And follow our Instagram. It's more of a Boxing Day gift. You don't call it Boxing Day here, do you? We do, but's good. And follow our Instagram. It's more of a boxing day gift. You don't call it boxing day here, do you? We do, but we don't know what it is.

We call it the day after Christmas. Yeah, whatever that is on the calendar there. And then our Instagram, idkatpodcast, I-D-K-A-T podcast. Follow it. If you're listening to this, follow it. There's not enough people following it, that's not a podcast.

And by the way, feel free to follow me or Kelly or Jack on there. Jim's got enough followers. Yeah, I've got enough followers. Stop following me and follow them. Yeah, well, no, keep following me. Keep following me. You can follow as many people as you want.

All the people who are watching online, we're a little bit late today. We have a bit rushed on the podcast because Jack forgot the lights. He didn't think we needed to be late. It doesn't feel like we're late. They're just listening. I was all for not being lit. I want to be as fuzzy as possible. I want to be in a production with all Vaseline over the lens.

That's what I want to be. I tell you, I went to a party this week. I went to a party. A good friend of mine, she was having her birthday, and so she invited me to the party. But my wife had to go to a different party, and we had a babysitter. And so I thought we'd have the babysitter. She could do it. But my wife had to go to a different party and we had a babysitter and so I thought we have the babysitter, she could do it. So my wife went to see her friends and I went off to this party. I don't drink anymore. It was very bold of me

just to go to a party by myself where I didn't really know anyone. I wouldn't do it. Was it a house party? I fucking went in. I thought I gonna talk to people i'm just gonna walk around talking to folks oh god because you know why i had the gumption to do is because since giving up drinking the thing about giving up drinking if you're considering giving up drinking um what you do feel is a lot of boredom right but you no longer feel shame on a regular basis drinking for me induced shame where you're just like, oh, God, what did you say?

What did you do? So I thought if I wasn't drinking, well, I won't have any shame. I'll just. And then I found out that, my God, I'm boring. I bored the shit out of so many people at this fucking party. It was noticeable. And this podcast doesn't help.

It doesn't help because it makes you a fucking know-it-all and there's no one less interesting than a fucking know-it-all. So I walked up. I won't say who it is. Do you guys know what an archaeopteryx is? Fucking basically, dude. I walk up and there's a comedian.

I won't say who she is because she might not want to be mentioned, but I've never really met her. I know of her. She knew of me. I walk up and there's a comedian. I won't say who she is because she might not want to be mentioned, but I've never really met her. I know of her. She knew of me. I walked up and I said, hello, I'm Jim. We actually did a show the other day, but we didn't bump into each other like that, right? And then she went, oh, it's nice to meet you.

Maybe my own self-hate. This is the type of comic that I assumed would dislike me as a person, right? I was like, this person will definitely dislike me. But in those situations, as you do, well, you're a nice person. Just be nice and maybe they'll change their opinion. Maybe. She probably had no opinion of me. She probably had no fucking opinion.

But I went up there tentatively like, all right, I'm going to do this. Hello. We were on a bloody show. We're going to get like this, right? I was talking. I was high as well. That makes you chat a bit. So I had an edible.

And so I walk up and then the girl that she was talking to, I spoke to that girl for a while and I said, oh, I'm sorry for leaving you out. Hello, what's your name? I'm Jim. Hello, nice to meet you. And she goes, no, I'm just enjoying watching you two talk. She goes, you sound like a pirate, right?

And I guess I am a little bit of pirate about it. I'm Jack Sparrow light, aren't I? Anyway, so I went, I sound like a pirate. I go, well, actually, the pirate's accent comes from Cornwall where they all go which is where a lot of the pirating was done there was female pirates you know and they they looked at me and then another person walked up and they said oh hey how are you doing like and then the girl went oh it's great we're talking to this guy we're learning so much oh my god i fucking died i'm like oh no

so i went off and i talked to another group of people and i went out a nice chat now this other person i talked to they were two celebrities and one of them was a famous she was a famous sitcom star and her husband who's famous in his own right for a different thing and i won't tell you who it is because you'll figure out who they are and they they live near near me right i found out they live near me and they live right in the park and i said something like this i went oh you live around the park i was gonna move to the park but i went there to look at a house and i saw a couple of junkies in the middle of the day so i thought it was a bit dodgy right i was just basically knocking their fucking out like a fucking moron like that right and i'm obviously it obviously, who gives a shit as well?

It's like, you know, they can walk to my house. They don't have to go to the next one, right? Anyway, and he said, well, you live there too, man. So I was like, yeah, right. So I tried to change the subject. I got onto musical theatre a bit because I thought I knew a bit about that. We'd done a podcast and that. I rattled off a few fucking facts as I do.

And then the girl said to me, it's been nice talking to you. And I was like, oh, man. I just got an Uber home and I rang Forrest the whole way back going, I can't go to parties by myself. I can't do it. I can't do it. I needed my wife there. I needed my wife to go.

That's enough, honey. You're talking too much. That was how you started the phone call. I just picked do it. I can't do it. I needed my wife there. I needed my wife to go, that's enough, honey. You're talking too much. That was how you started the phone call. I just picked it up. You go, I can't go to parties by myself anymore. I don't know what I was thinking. Then you laugh. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Then you laugh. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed your trip to the party. And then the person whose party it was, she wrote to me the next day. And she said, thank you so much for coming to the party. It meant so much to me that you came. And I went, I think I bored the shit out of all your friends. But thank you for having me.

And she just wrote back, well, thanks for coming. She didn't deny it. Yeah, she's like, no, you're not coming back. I feel like conversations have been had. I thought she said, I enjoyed you. Yeah, that's the kind of. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, she she said I enjoyed you. Yeah, she... That's the kind of... She said I enjoyed you. Word on the street is

other people didn't have it. This is the thing that sometimes I get... You talked to someone about cheese for 20 minutes. That's a good combo. I told a few stories. I told like I told, because it was fresh in my mind, I told this story about the leather jacket and Dr. Drew because someone said that they were friends with Dr. Drew and then I told that story and I went, geez,

this story's going on a bit, you know, and I had to explain to them that I'm famous and that's why I had to sell the jacket. As soon as you explain you're famous, fucking hell, I was stuck in the weeds there and then I bought the jacket back and then the girl went, are you wearing it now? No, this is a different jacket.

And so, yeah, I can't. I don't have the social Eddie Pepitone was there. I latched onto Eddie Pepitone. I've got along with him. Great. I've only met him a couple of times. It's the only name you can say. The only person I think that liked me was Eddie Pepitone.

Turns out he hated you the most. We just got a DM from Eddie. He said, please delete me from your podcast. Tell that guy to shut up. Love, Eddie Pepitone. All right, Jack, what's going on? Well, kind of in the same spirit of Jim's story, I decided to segment today.

I would read off some lousy opening lines I've heard. A new segment, you're saying? New segment, yeah. What's it called? Lousy opening lines I've heard or have been given. Wow, catch it. Opening lines of what? You shouldn't name medicine because it's not punchy. Archaeopteryx systemism. Wait, wait, lousy?

They're just shitty opening lines I've been instructed. What do you mean opening lines? Like people are trying to pick someone up? Pick someone up. Oh, pick up lines. Call them pick up lines. Your lines jack shit. That would be the name of it. Yeah, that's great. Bad pick up lines you've heard? Yeah, these are bad pick up lines. And where you've heard them at restaurants?

On apps. Out of his own mouth. Out of my mouth. Giving me. He said to me. You should go on pick downs. Pick downs. So I'm going to ask you these questions.

We named the segment pick downs. You can critique the questions. You can try to answer the best of your ability. And I'm sure you guys have had some crazy pickup lines you've heard as well I'll just tell you where you're living is bad and that about pirates fucking hell I'm just getting douche

chills right now reminiscing fucking hell carry on this one I was instructed to ask girls on the dating apps during the pandemic and it was, have you picked up any hobbies during this bonkers time? Wow.

Wait, I love the word bonkers. I didn't tell you to say that. That is the dumbest thing. Did you tell him? No, my, my attractor friend told me to do it.

And that worked for him. One of my attractive friends. Listen to attractive people. That's the lesson. And what they get up to. I thought you said my tractor friend. I was like, well, not them. They of my attractive friends. Don't listen to attractive people. I know, that's the lesson. And what they get up to. I thought you said my tractor friend. I was like. Well, not them.

They have something to offer as well. They got some good tips. No, attractive people just go, this is what you do, right? If you want to like go out with women, you just go up and ask them. Shut up. You don't know anything. Yeah, you just walk up to them and just like put your arm around them and go, hey, what's up, toots? And then they love it. And you're like, I've watched up toots once just like put your arm around them and go, hey, what's up, toots? And then they love it.

And you're like, I've watched up toots once in me life. Never again. That's just such a bad way of wording that. You could word it like what's the weirdest thing you've gotten into during the pandemic? What you should do is, oh, this pandemic's been hard. I took up doing blah, blah, blah. How about you?

Do you take up any stupid hobbies? You know what I mean? Something like that. Call them stupid hobbies. Don't. It's true doing blah blah blah. How about you? Do you take up any stupid hobbies? You know what I mean? Call them stupid hobbies. No, it's true. Bonkers time is horrible. And most of the time when I'd ask that question, I'd either get no response or people would always go, no, I didn't do anything new.

You're like, great opener. This is the thing. I've worked in television on and off and I've always found it weird that off and and i've always find it weird that every now and again someone will just go what we'll do is we don't have a segment why don't you just ask the audience things no no because we've tried if i've tried it on different shows it doesn't work if they if they had some type of rapport or gumption they'd be on tv themselves yeah you're like how are you doing i remember watching

russell brandon on one of his shows he said he said to someone he goes here you are here's the microphone you have the whole world you can say anything to here's your platform use it now and then the person went hi mom like that on the tv show goes isn't that beautiful hello to your mother all the things you could have said and i like, you're fucking dying in the weeds here, man. It's either somebody is incredibly boring or is trying too hard to be funny. And I don't know which one's worse. I do a thing in my show at the moment where I ask audience members, I say, just answer this, just in one word questions,

because I'll get a laugh and I know what the answer is going to be to the certain thing I'm going to ask. And then I'm like, please don't try to be funny. And then inevitably one in five of them try to be funny. And I go, what did I tell you? And then they're just sitting there like in the weeds. Like, oh no. Be boring. It's better. I'm literally feeding them something. If they answer correctly, they'll get a big laugh. I'm feeding them a laugh, but they don't. You can lead a horse to water

but it doesn't mean it'll fuck you. Not my experience. No, you don't. That's another saying, flogging a dead horse. Pagging a dead horse. Oh, no. Oh, God. Okay.

Guys. PETA is going to be on our ass. Not cool. Yeah, PETA owns the horse. He's a nice fella I don't think it's funny Alright So I heard this one at a bar

the other night and two girls were going up to guys asking this, they didn't ask me unfortunately but they asked everyone else Were they good looking? Yes Two girls that were walking around I was looking cool in the corner and no one came up to me They were approaching men? I've? I was looking cool in the corner and no one came up to me. They were approaching men?

Yeah. I've never seen good looking girls approach men. It was set up for success. And I don't actually think they failed, but they went, they would go up to guys and go, settle a debate for us. Do you have clean sheets? I don't know if that's a pickup line. It just sounds like

they're taking a survey. Well, it could be a pickup line because it's kind of like one of those things like, I'll show you my sheet. You know what I would say? I go, I went tonight after meeting you. Yeah, thank you. That's good. I gotta talk to the ladies.

If you didn't get it, that means I'm gonna cum all over my sheets. Yeah, because you're gonna make me vomit in my sleep. Your rainy's down, Jack? Yeah, this is good. Oh, well, we have it on tape. Yeah. You're about to do this. I thought we all just joined up for a chat once a week

with sticks in front of our faces. I thought this was a hot dog. What? I don't know. Yeah, that's one of Jack's lines. He walks up with his dick hanging out. I thought this was a hot dog. What? I don't know. Don't eat that one. Yeah, that's one of Jack's lines. He walks up and he's dick hanging out. I thought this was a hot dog. You got the mustache.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm looking for a bun. What kind of toppings you like? Chicago style? This one my friend did and it worked. He went up to a girl and went, I like your lipstick. Mind if I try it out? And then they started making out.

Yeah, that one's not bad. It's not bad. I would have put the lipstick on him. The girl has to like you. The line doesn't do all the heavy. They have to like you. The lines do almost nothing. That's really what it comes down to. Dating just comes down to whether somebody

is attracted to you or not because there are plenty of attractive people that just send, hey. People will still fall all over themselves for it. I think the line would be something you wouldn't lead off of it. You would say it after you've talked to the person and you're like, oh yeah, this person

we're having a vibe or something. Then you would throw that line. That's probably what your friend did. No, it was right up how much does a polar bear weigh enough to break your legs no it's about a cubic ton we learned that on a podcast are you doing an impression of me

no I thought that was my big I was talking about you you're a polar bear your beard's gone a bit white. You used to be a little grizzly, and now you're my little polar bear. Oh. Why am I yours?

Someone's got to have you. Okay. Listen and learn. You'll find some. If you want to. If Forrest is single at the moment, and he wants to meet women, Jack, what should he say? What's another one he should say? I don't.

I never try to meet women. Just listen to his advice. He'll find a woman. This is one that was asked to me. Or wasn't it? Actually, it's a comment. Get off my property. What the fuck do you want? I do have written down here, who do you know here?

How did you get in? Did I see your invitation? The cops have been called. A girl walked up to me and said, I bet you like period sex. I was like, ah. You went, like, from the 1800s?

Ooh. May I go downtown on your Abbey? We haven't bathed for two weeks. want to fuck my bathroom's outside and then when i got at a party uh it was a party full of actors so they went are you an actor well that's just a question i know but that's the opening question when you meet someone are you an actor what do you think the next thing let's fuck let's fuck that's right well i think i think there is something to that especially if you're in la because people like to be flattered so if you walked up to somebody and were like oh my god are you an are you an actor like maybe if you're you're pretending you recognize them or something

like that it kind of fluffs their ego a little bit people like to i tell you what everywhere every time it's me jason Whitehead, and Forrest, and we're walking through airports and we're getting in cars with things, everyone thinks we're a band. And I don't know what fucking- No, it's our last trip. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's happened several times.

Are you in a band? And they ask me one of the things, are you in a band? And it's like, is it because I'm in an expensive car and I look like shit? It's because I've got stains on my shirt and they're like this is a private car what's going on this guy must be in a band yeah that actually yeah that makes sense louise wooden car um what's your pickup line what's your i'm sure he. Uh, I mean, I'm so out of the game recently. I used to be good, but have you got a bird? Do you have a girlfriend?

No, no, it's just, I've, I've, it's just fucking lonely. The game kicked him out. No,

I mean, I was telling Jack, I guess it wasn't a fake up line per se, but there was this girl on a dating app and she put, I come from a long line of, uh, bullfighters. And I said,

well, I hope you're available for a date. I thought it was great. I thought it was great. But yeah, I did not get it. I've got some advice for you. Stay in the game permanently. Louis, you can ask now. What do you guys think about picnic dates?

No. You mean like an actual picnic? Okay. A picnic is a good six date. Six yeah yeah it's a daytime date you for me personally the early dates have to involve a bit of alcohol because i don't want to be taken on a picnic you got it you you both you both got to loosen up a bit to have a chat with each other you know second third dates are sex dates you know what i mean so yeah they're sex dates so sex dates and then like and then like you know if you like the person you get to like six or seven

you go let's do a dating let's go to the park apple picking you know yeah some women like fucking apple picking how many fucking apples unless you're gonna cook leave the apples alone let them stay up you gotta eat're going to eat them all? How many apples do you fucking want? That's why I don't date. I'm afraid guys are going to take me on dates like that thinking that that's what I want. Louise took a girl apple picking but it was just a...

I needed help during my show. Roberto called off so I was like can you say it? I didn't want to say it. Thanks for kicking that joke. Do the women like the wooden car? Yeah, generally. I mean, the voice got worse. The voice just went up and up.

After they get past the pushing it. My favorite thing when a guy picks me up is when the car is smoking. I think it'll get us there. It's nice and romantic. Do you have any pick up lines about how the dick is used as a shovel? Oh no, that was a bad one. Okay, never mind.

Whitney Cummings told me that the dick's used as a shovel. Whitney Cummings? Whitney Cummings. We were talking about Darwinism and all that type of stuff. And you know how the body has hairy armpits so that when you swing on a vine, the sweat and all that type of crap, right? And she goes, the head of the dick is scooped that way so that to pull out other man's cum

so that you'll be the bigger chance of being the father. I have a feeling that's wrong. I don't know. We were in an orgy I'm joking Whitney's a friend of mine she's a very nice lady anything else for us? let's do some ads

she did tell me that there was a dick scoop I've been told that before too have you? it says some animals may use their penis bone to scoop out arrivals Kelly was helping me hit on two girls and then a rogue party from our group went in and started talking about dick shovels. Yeah.

Like Jack was talking to these two girls and we were like, you know, I was teaching him how to be comfortable talking to the girls. And this guy comes up, just starts talking about how the dick is used as a shovel to pull the come out. And I said, Hey,

why don't you go sit over there? This is not a good time. And then he screamed and called me a cunt in the middle of the restaurant. You are the meanest person I've ever met. And he pulled his dick out and left. Yeah. He left the cum in me too. He didn't show any of it out.

It was so fucking rude. I know. I wasn't saying he knew. It was in Jack. That's why Jack was finding it hard to meet the girls. IDK. All right. Please welcome our guest, Dr. Ayanna Thomas.

Hello, doctor. Now it's time to play. Yes, no. Yes, no. Yes, no. Yes, no. Judging a book by its cover. Okay.

Well, it's already in the title. You're a doctor. So you're a person of intelligence, I assume, unless you're one of those doctors where you're a celebrity and you got given one at a university because you went there to talk for a bit. I'm still waiting on one of them. I've never received one. She's not. Are you a medical doctor?

No. Oh, okay. Are you a doctor of philosophy? I am. All right. Is the topic philosophy? It is not. You've asked that many times. I know.

I got very close this time. Okay. So give me a hint there, Forrest. Yeah, give him the riddle. I do want the riddle. I do want the riddle, yeah. Okay. This is our subject today.

Forrest came in today like, I've written a riddle. do want the riddle yeah okay this is our subject today forrest came in today like i've written a riddle yeah i didn't write this i got this off the internet i can bring a smile to your face a tear to your eye or even a thought to your mind but i can't be seen oh you're the comedy stylings of what that's such a good riddle it is a good riddle you can bring a tear to my eye, a cough to my mouth. A smile to your face, a tear to your eye, or even a thought to your mind, but can't be seen. You're an idea. Close.

You're so close. This is something, I don't know whether this is good or bad for you, this subject. Oh, dreaming nightmares. We've already done dreams. I love that episode. Not enough, I guess. Well, you said your dad just wrote an autobiography about his.

Childhood? Oh, your childhood memories. Memory. Oh, memory. Like the corners of my mind. I didn't say like the corner of my mind because I assume it's a cube. Dr. Ayanna Thomas is the Dean of Research and Arts and Sciences and a professor at Tufts University, where she heads the Cognitive Aging and Memory Lab. Dr. Thomas takes a transitional approach to the study of memory and age-related changes in cognition.

Dr. Thomas is a founding member and current president of the SPARC Society, designed to increase diversity in cognitive psychology. And she is also the editor-in-chief of the journal Memory and Cognition. Did I say that right? Of the journal Memory and Cognition. So you're going to memorize this one. Hello, Dr. Thomas. Tell us a little bit more about how you got to be gotten into memory and from your own memory. Sure.

Sure. I have a terrible memory. So I'll just preface by telling you that my memory's really bad so when i ever when i do all these retrospectives they're um always sort of who knows what's true and what's false anymore but i'll tell you my my recollection of my past how's my how's the audio by the way very good good. Good. Okay, good. Let's see. I went to a science high school. I went to this school in New York called the Bronx High School of Science.

There was a big focus on thinking about, I really got into biology and how biological processes impact the functioning of the brain. And then when I went to college, I started thinking about more from a psychological perspective, how we think about our past, how memories are formed, whether they're represented in the brain. And I got involved in a lab. I guess it was my sophomore or junior year of college. And in that lab, we focused on what's

known as implicit memories or non-conscious memories. So the way that we know how to ride a bike or that we can learn how to drive and we start to drive to a place and you realize that you don't want to actually be going to that place, but you've done it so many times that you go on that same path. That sort of automatic behavior that we engage in. I started really getting interested in college. And from there, I went to grad school. there I went to grad school. And in grad school, I worked with a very famous researcher who was studying how to create false memories, whether people can create false memories of childhood events, and from there, how reliable our memories really are. And so I've been thinking about the reliability of memory,

how memories are stored in the brain and how we can access them for, I don't know, 20 or so years, 25 years. Well, you can only access a memory for 25 years. I tell you, I can't access any of my memories because I have memories of childhood. We'll see, Jim. Don't try and get answers to questions. All right.

All right. Dr. Thomas, I'm going to ask Jim a series of questions here. He's going to do his best trying to answer them. At the end of the answers, you're going to grade him 0 through 10, 10 being the best on his accuracy. Kelly's going to grade him on confidence. I'm going to grade him on et cetera. We'll add all three of those scores together. If you score a 21 through 30, Jim, nice to see you again. 11 through 20, have we met before? Zero through 10, who are you? What do you want? Yeah. Okay. Okay. What is memory? Memory is when your brain recalls a thing from the past

or not just the past, just something that you have to remember. Like, uh, like your, your memory can be people's names, um, a shopping list that you don't have in your pocket, you know, things like that as standup routine. Yeah. So what you said at the first thing. Yeah. Okay. What are different types of memory? Um, there's short term and long term. And, um, there'd probably be a third category, subconscious memory.

Middle term. Yeah. There'd be like a subconscious memory where you remember something that that's when you get deja vu and you're not quite sure what's going on. How are memories made? Um, like, you know, not like, Hey, you go to Disney world. Not like we're having a great time. I'm going to remember this.

Yeah. Your brain. I, I, I, I know this much. I know that when something traumatic happens to me, I remember that a lot better than something that was just pleasant. People always like when I was drinking a lot, I'd black out every now and again, but I'm also, I'd be a blackout drunk, but I'm also a blackout sober. I don't, I'm not quite sure what I did last week. I don't know the meals that I ate.

You know what I mean? But if I really racked my brain, I could probably rattle out a couple of them, but I couldn't get it down to the thing. That's why I always amazed by court cases where they bring in a witness from 20 years ago. And this person was like, and he was wearing a blue top. And then they walked in and you're like, get the fuck out of here. We were texting earlier this week and you asked me a question that we had

answered maybe four and you go, oh yeah, bad memory. Yeah. I always consider myself, like I've never written a joke down. So I've always considered myself to have a pretty good memory, you know, doing standup needs a fairly good memory and all that stuff. My memory is definitely getting worse. And we'll ask this question later. I hope weed doesn't ruin your memory because I've gotten big into that.

We've got bad news for you. I've got big into that. Where are our memories stored? In our brains, man. What part? Frontal lobes. Are long-term and short-term memories stored in different places in the brain? No. Okay. How long do short-term memories stored in different places in the brain no okay how long do short-term memories last um oh i think a short-term memory is something that's a few weeks okay how early in life can memories be formed i think short-term memories can be

formed right away i have a baby and i can tell that he remembers certain people's voices and they come in and then he goes, oh, and he can turn. And, you know, like my other son doesn't live with me full-time. He lives with me one week on, one week off. And when he arrives back, the baby's very excited and he hasn't seen him for a week. So I believe they can be formed from the from the womb probably can we run out of space for new memories you can run out of space for things in your brain i reckon oh for not for

new memories not like you're like i can't remember that i've got too many new memories i have a theory on the brain that you get knowledge and then you kick knowledge out like i can always remember uh two hours of stand-up comedy to do at any given stage, but I've recorded over 10 hours of standup comedy. And I couldn't tell you more. If I really, really searched my brain, I could probably churn out 40 more minutes, but it would be pretty, it wouldn't be right. That reminds me of your theory about why you only listen to older music.

Cause you said you have no room in your brain. I don't listen i have about about a thousand songs in my head that i basically know the words to if they come on the radio that's a lot of fucking songs i don't need any songs i've kicked songs out i've i've got the songs that i like and they're the ones that i'm keeping how accurate is the human memory um well it depends It would be a case-by-case study, but I don't believe it's terribly accurate. I believe one person's recollection of an event can be completely different to another person's recollection of an event.

How can you improve your memory? Nanogen. There's a tablet that they try to sell me all the time yeah it's it's right after the life alert commercials okay and uh they try to uh sell me these pills that will improve the and they show pictures of like brainwaves going they look like covid balls and uh and they they the receptors i'm sure there's things you can do like. Like Nintendo DS had that memory game type of thing. They reckon if you played it over and over and over again, you've got to keep your brain active.

And if your brain's active, then your memory will be better. If you let it slow down like any muscle, it won't be as good. So only things that begin with that, Nanogen, Nintendo. Nintendo and Nanogen. Okay. This next question we'll get to with the trauma thing. What are some diseases or disorders associated with memory? Alzheimer's is a big one to do with your memory.

If you lose that, that's no good. I don't know if it's inherently, I hear it's probably horrible. I imagine Alzheimer's is bad for a person who's lived a shitty life because they're locked in that fucking chamber. But if you've lived a good life, there's a few people that i'd like to have forget when they come over and when's janice coming janice has been dead for years oh god you know what i mean so i i um what was the question next memory what is anterograde amnesia anterograde anterograde amnesia sorry uh i would say well amnesia is i've never met anyone who's had amnesia i've seen documentaries about people who've had amnesia i've

seen a million fucking soap operas where everyone fucking gets amnesia amnesia is when you might have had a bump to the head or a traumatic event and that means that you uh forgot um a portion of your life or all of your life. You don't know who you are or whatever. And you said it was a special one. I'll say that it's one where you forget the last two years. Okay. How does trauma affect your memory?

You mentioned that too. I think we'll get to that. Traumatic events, for me anyway, anything that's traumatic in my life, I remember it very, very clearly. That's what I'm saying. Well, I think we'll get to that. Because that makes a tattoo on your brain. That's what they call core memories. Core memories like the movie Inside Out.

I predicted this. We told her yesterday. Pre-interview. It's not fucking wrong. No, Inside Out's a great fucking movie. I said most of your answers would be based on Inside Out is what I said. I'll tell you what, I've only seen it once. Recalled all of that. Is Bing Bong real?

Do we all have Bing Bong? Oh, I just remembered Bing Bong. What's the difference between semantic memory and episodic memory? Semantic, semantics. I always say this. You're just doing semantics right now. I say that word. Um,

uh, it's one of the ones I used to use, win arguments. And episodic is like, you know, a TV show. Yeah. Episodic will be losing memories of events.

Semantic memory will be, uh, memories of, uh, just little parts of the event. I thought you were going to say it would be like when, hey, remember that episode of Friends? And you're like, no, I don't.

That's episodic memory. Episodic is where you remember like an hour-long thing or a whole event, and then semantics are the finer details of that event. Okay, last question. So senses, your sense of smell, hearing, stuff like that, how does that affect memory? Smell definitely has an effect on your memory. You smell something, it might remind you of a Christmas that you once had

or a grandmother that you had that baked a certain pie or something like that. That memory will come flooding back to you. How does that work, though? Well, your senses are all connected to your brain. It's all one and the same, you know. And so like you're hearing, a song can bring back a memory very easily you can hear a song or remind you of a time and maybe a person or someone that you shagged once or whatever you know what i mean like it'll be it that that's how that's how music music works i don't think ah you know i think it's not just music someone tears open a fart. You remember like, oh, yeah, I remember when fucking Nick lit his fart

at high school. I just remember Nick lighting his fart at high school. That was a memory that just came back. Memory unlocked. He lit it on the back of the bus. He lit it on the back of the bus and a teacher, because he had his pants, said, don't do that. And she pulled him by the back of the hoodie and he fell down.

His ass was upright like a fucking bike rack. Romantic. Okay, Dr. Ayanna Thomas. How did Jim do 0 through 10, 10 the best on his answers about memory? So I guess if we're going to give Jim an intro psych grade, I guess I give him 50%. Cool. So five.

Yeah. All right. How do you do on confidence? He was going to be around a six, but inside out made him feel more confident. So I'm going to give him a seven on confidence. Yeah. Remember the other good things I said.

He mentioned inside out. So that's minus seven for me. So you got a, I don't know, something to fire. Who are you and what do you want that's where you are jim okay i won't mention inside out remembering cars when flash mcqueen right met the old car and the old car was reminiscing about when he was a race car memories i prefer the inside out awesome so dr thomas i asked jim what is a memory? He said, it's when your brain recalls a thing from the past or something that you have to remember. I mean, is it as simple as that? That was a really good answer. But I think it can be more broad. So Jim used the word recall,

and I don't think we have to recall something for it to be a memory. something for it to be a memory. So think about it like this, any change in your behavior as a result of some previous experience, right? So I can change the way I'm approaching a new setting because I've been in a setting similarly before, but I might not consciously recall it, have that change in behavior. So change our behaviors oh you said dog we change our behaviors because we have these memories of these previous experiences but we don't have to consciously recollect them we don't have to we don't have to necessarily engage um the sort of conscious act of bringing it to mind in order for there to be a memory if that makes sense right yeah um i asked jim what are different types of memories

that short-term long-term subconscious and deja vu good answer i'm only partially right so you also asked about the distinction between short-term and long-term memory, which Jim didn't get right, but nobody does. I will from now on. Maybe not in a week or so. So memory can be divided into short-term or working memory and long-term memory. So that's two really good conscious distinctions. But the short-term memory or working memory is the kind of memory that we're using right now, right? So we have

this information that's active, let's say, in our mental workspace. And I'm using that to communicate with you right now. But once it's outside of consciousness, it's no longer in short-term memory. So anything that we retrieve, even if it's just a few minutes later, we're still retrieving that from long-term memory. Anything that drops out of consciousness and you have to bring back up to mind is long-term memory. But from there, long-term memory can be divided into something you asked about a little bit later, Long-term memory can be divided into something you asked about a little bit later, episodic and semantic memory, which Jim didn't get right. We'll talk about it later.

You can talk about it now if you think it makes sense. Yeah, we can go ahead and order. Well, we can also divide that into declarative memories and non-declarative memories. What does declarative mean? Yeah. So declarative. Good.

I thought everyone else was going to look at me like I was a moron. Okay. No, that's good. Okay, good. So this episodic and semantic memory fall into that declarative memory category. It's the memories that we can, again, consciously bring to mind. Jim, you were right. Episodic memory are those episodes of your life.

I like to think about episodic memories as the what, when, where, and how. So we have these episodes that we can bring back up, like what we have for dinner, who we shagged. I can't believe I just said that. But those are the kinds of things that we would bring back up. That's an episode. Semantic memory is where you were a little bit off and I knew you didn't know it because you're totally making things up. You guys have never listened to our podcast before. The semantic memory is essentially general knowledge. It's what I'm using right now. I have all of this knowledge that I've accumulated over decades of study, and I'm able to access this and tell you all about how memory works. But so if I ask you, for example, what's the capital of France?

What's the capital of France? Paris. You got it. So do you remember where you learned that information? I went to Paris. learned that information? I went to Paris. Oh, you learned it there?

Do you consciously remember someone telling you, oh, Paris is the capital of France? Oh, yes, Mr. Kennedy, year seven. You did not! No, no, no, it was August 12th. It was a summer's day, but I was still wearing a jumper. And I remember feeling too hot. Why was I

wearing shorts and a jumper? Yeah, but isn't it winter in Australia? Isn't it summer in Australia in August? Wow. The heating was turned up to 24 Celsius. Oh, right. Oh, yeah. Okay.

You have an episodic memory of learning this information, but you are totally lying. Then Mr. Kennedy touched me on the thigh I've learned so much information today I better let him remember the difference between episodic and semantic I tell you what, you're going to remember this. Why do I? Okay, so there's people I went to school with who I remember distinctly, but I know I went to school with 100 kids in the school, right?

Some of them I spent 12 years in school with them, and fuck me, I looked in yearbooks and I can't remember who. I looked at like the year photo. I can't remember who the hell they are. I can't remember their names or whatever. Some people I went to school with will bring up these people and they'll go, remember when blah, blah, blah. And I just, I completely blank. And it's like, you think if you spend that long with people, why is it?

Just that these people are unmemorable. Is it that I'm a bad person? Is it that they're unmemorable? I think it can be, you're not a bad person because you forget people. I forget people all the time too. And I think that the reason why people will remember the past episodes, there's differences in how people remember the past is because some people like to think about it more. So every time we think about the past, every time, you know, let's say you think about grade school, that serves as another act of sort of reliving that experience and you re-encode it.

So it makes it easier to remember the next time. But if you're like me and you got out of grade school and you're really happy to be out, never think about it again, you didn't think about it, right? So those people, you know, those pieces of information or those episodes from that time aren't practiced like some other memories, but they could be more practiced for other people.

So I think that's why you see individual differences. I could play the saxophone years ago and I wouldn't be able to fucking pick one up right now. No, but you can. I bet you can't. I could play the thing. It would just take a while, right? It would take a couple of days. I think you'd pick it up. So there's a principle called savings, right?

So if you learn something, like I used to play the piano and I can still kind of read music, but I'm rusty. But my guess is I think that you and I would probably pick it up more quickly the second time around because we've already laid down a foundation for it when we were younger. Right. Now I'll tell you something. Now I'm, I'm slightly famous. I'm not a hugely famous person, but I'm famous enough that people know who I am when I'm at a party or what have you. Right. And you're shaking your head. Not you. Not everybody knows, right?

But what happens is when you're a person who's known, when people meet you, they remember it. I was going to bring this up. They remember it, but you don't remember it, and then they get offended that you don't remember it. And I meet so many people, and people will come up to me, and they'll go, hi, Jim. And I'll go, oh, hi, nice to meet you. and they'll go they'll go hi Jim and they'll and I go oh hi nice to meet you and they'll go it's David we've met four times and I'll be like this I feel like going why don't you be fucking more memorable David why don't you do something that makes you you know oh fucking David's here we're gonna have a good

time I didn't know David was coming I was gonna ask if you experienced that because I've had situations where like old friends have been like do you remember that time that we did this thing? And it was probably like a crazy night for them, but like, I've had a wild life. You're memorable. You're memorable. And so a lot of my nights are like random or crazy or whatever. So that one specifically didn't stick out to me. And I feel like I get lambasted for having a bad memory all the time, but I always say that I'm like, be more memorable. That's not my fault. Is that because for having a bad memory all the time but i always say that i'm like be more memorable that's not my fault is that because i'm a bad person or because they're a good person or how does this she doesn't have much time left i always feel guilty about it i do when someone says that i feel really guilty and i'm like oh i'm really sorry david is it i'm sorry right and

but i don't remember people. I don't remember them. Well, to them, to meet you was very important. No, it's not important. No, I think it does. Even if they don't like you, they still know who you are. I think for a lot of people, meeting a celebrity is something that they'll never forget. Why don't we let Dr. Thomas answer? I like this conversation.

Yeah, if Forrest gets angry, you'll remember that. I'll tell you what. Yeah, I'm memorable. Yeah, you are memorable. I never forgot Forrest. He was a small child. Kelly said it's important. It's important for people when they meet you. And I think that maybe not important, but it's more salient, right? So you are a novelty when people meet you. And so that is going to be associated you like

you get tagged right in their brains and there's a little like tag that's associated with meeting you but it's not the same for when you meet that david guy um he's just like every other guy that you meet yeah what was his name bowie or I can't remember. He fucking went on about it. I'll bet you four times. All right. Why are your eyes different colors, you freak? Wipe that paint off your face. He already died.

Yeah, no, it was before then. Too soon. All right, Forrest, what's the next one? How are memories made? How are memories made? Yeah, Jim said when something traumatic happens, I remember a lot better than something pleasant. That's what he said about memories being made.

Sorry. Trauma and memory is challenging because some people will say. Did you not answer the last question? Is that what happened? Because I did the Bowie joke. Did that ruin it? What was the last question we'll move on i think you did i think that is tattooed in their brain because of novelty

and then i made a joke that he was a bigger celebrity it was all it was good stuff so memories there are no memories tattooed in your brain. There's nothing like that. That's not how memory works. So think about it like this. When you experience a new event and you are encoding a new information, and maybe you'll remember this later. I'm sure I will. But what we're doing is we're taking all these pieces of information, the context, the room that you're sitting in, your emotional state, your physiological state. But there's also the contextual elements, the lighting, the sound, all of that information.

Think about these as all these different elements of a memory, like a puzzle, that have to be bound together or united. of a memory, like a puzzle, that have to be bound together or united. And so those little pieces aren't stored as one unit. We don't have memories. They're not represented like that. The brain could not sort of represent each of these individual units in this kind of space. But what happens is that you have this pattern of activation in neurons in the brain. And that pattern of activation gets consolidated into one unit.

And when you go to retrieve that memory, that's when you have to sort of bring that activation back up and put those pieces back together. We never put those pieces back together. We never put those pieces back together correctly. So sometimes I forget, you know, you might misattribute something I said to maybe something Kelly said later on, right? We start to make these errors because the different attributes shift over time. They get mixed with other kinds of patterns of activation in the brain. And so when we put the puzzle pieces back together, think of your brain as having, think of all of these memories as being billions and billions and billions of different puzzles that you just have to sort through and put back together whenever you're retrieving. And we do that with some degree of accuracy. But as we talked about in a later question,

memories are not accurate. I also do a lot of expert testimony work. So I'm an expert witness. So when you brought up having a witness come and talk about the guy wearing the blue shirt 20 years ago, no, that witness is not accurate. I always, yeah. So, I mean, it's so hard for us to demonstrate that level that degree of veracity um when when thinking about memories we just just I thought okay so look I'm not a big

fan of the guy whatever but I thought when Brett Kavanaugh had his court case and they had the thing I was watching it was like everyone remembers this fucking party from 40 years ago. And then he had a beer and then this person brought a beer. I'm not saying the guy did or didn't do it. I'm not getting involved with that. I have no skin in the game. But I remember thinking everyone's very clear on all of this. You know what I mean?

So with things like that, can we even have court cases? Is it even plausible to do something that's that long ago? Or do we piece together if enough people have a similar story, then we go that's probably the area that we're looking at? I think it's the latter, right? But I think that, you know, so if we're talking about the kavanaugh case and not surprisingly i have talked about this a lot um the so blase ford who who you know has this memory of this event she has trauma right she's clearly traumatized And as you suggested, that is going to change the way that she encodes and stores that

memory. She also probably thought about that memory over and over and over again. So she is reliable because she thought about it for so long. Well, she would be more reliable than the average person going to an average high school party. Let's say you go to these over and over again, and they all seem similar. So the fact that Brett Kavanaugh maybe didn't have a recollection doesn't surprise me when someone else has a recollection. I can see both of those states as actually demonstrating truth. Now, that one's not a court case, right?

There was something else. And that proceeding, I think, is a little bit different. In the context of criminal justice, do I think that we should convict people on the basis of recollected memories from 30 years ago? No. Right. No. Right. I 100% do not, unless there's other kinds of evidence to sort of correspond and support these recollections.

But because memory is just so, you know, unreliable, it's hard to, you know, sort of put someone in prison for decades based on a record. I had memories of my childhood that I brought up with my mother before she passed away, and she didn't remember them at all. And I was like, how can't you remember? This was something that I considered to be traumatic or something like that. She had no recollection. It was things that I'd carried around that I was angry about for many years, and I couldn't be angry at

her because she didn't remember I was like and so and then maybe I over blew it in my head as well I don't I don't fucking know but it is it is a it is a tough one that one like how do you get angry at someone if they don't recall the incident themselves right sorry was I bring everything down just then because I was just thinking about something when you said that because I was thinking about when I met my dad like recently and then he didn't remember like he thought he was staying in touch with me

when he wasn't but I remember you bringing that up with your mom and you're like it was so long ago so who knows what's memory you know but yeah well and plus like perception is reality right Like we're all in the same room doing the same thing, but everybody will have different memories of this time because things affect you differently. So I like, that is what's interesting is like two

people can, can be saying their exact memory of a certain date and be wildly different, I think in their experiences. And And that's what's confusing too. Can your memory work to protect you? Can it rewrite history to make things more palatable to your mental health? It's not that your memory is doing it, it's you are doing it, right? You don't have to make a homunculus. There's no little man in the brain but okay so so it's sort of like what can we do to to sort of function in our lives uh and i mean we've all had i'm sure um a bunch of middle-aged people sitting around we've all had some trauma that's happened in our lives that we can choose not to think about, or we've had some awkward exchange that we can choose to, to try, you know, so we engage in protective strategies,

but every time we choose to maybe not think about it or choose the context, we're engaging in a control regulation process so that we can, you know, support our mental health. So I think there's a lot of relation, there's a strong relationship between how we remember the past and emotion regulation, how we want to feel about those recollections in the past. What did you call the little man in the brain? What was his name? A homunculus. A homunculus. A homunculus. I don't have one of them. I have one, the little man in the brain? What was his name? A homunculus. Homunculus. Homunculus.

I like that. I don't have one of them. I have a little man in my bowel that has a little pushing stick. What's his name? That I always think, like, when I need to have a poo, he's, like, tapping on the side. All right, we've got to go to work here. And he has the pushing stick and he... So the memories were stored in the brain, right,

but not in the frontal lobes? I know you were... Oh, yeah. No, the memories were stored in the brain right but not in the frontal lobes i know you were oh yeah no no memories i i think that you might have just knew about the frontal lobes and then said that um so memories the frontal lobes are important but i would say the entire brain is or the entire cortex plus some subcortical regions. So when I say the entire cortex, I'm saying frontal lobes, temporal lobes, medial or parietal and occipital, but also the hippocampus and the amygdala, which would be the subcortical regions that are going to be really important. But so if I think about a memory as being a distribution of attributes, like what I heard, how I felt, what something sounded like, all of those different elements might have different kinds of activation in different areas of the brain.

So occipital region is going to be associated with some of the visual processing. The temporal region is going to be associated with some of the visual processing. The temporal region is going to be associated with some of the auditory processing. And it's the hippocampus. If you look up the hippocampus, it looks like a little, what are those? Like little horseshoe kinds of things. And if you, or like a little seahorse, right? If you look that up, this little part of the brain is designed and it represents a way to put all of those elements back together. So when you want to retrieve something, you have this activity in this part of the brain that helps to put those puzzle pieces back together. So whenever somebody asks how where is a memory stored in your brain i and i i would say really actually nowhere because once the memory is not

once it's not conscious once you're not thinking about it it doesn't exist in the form that it will when you do retrieve it if that makes sense yeah yeah it's interesting the puzzle thing because sometimes i'm like trying to remember somebody's name that i know well i'm like and then i'm just like that's just not coming and it's like it's what just like you're talking about it's floating around somewhere it's not all coming together and then all of a sudden you're like meredith yeah no no yeah i've had friends that i forget their names good friend yeah um can wife, I was on the phone the other day and I couldn't recall her fucking name.

Can we run out of space for new memories? Jim says you have to kick memories out for new ones. Yeah. You know what? There's some evidence to suggest that people do kind of kick things out. But there's also evidence to suggest that our memories, some things can just be

long-lasting and all we need is the right retrieval cue. So the last question you asked was about smell and other kinds of senses. And those are, those really are these kinds of retrieval cues. So the other day I was trying to come up with a new password because, you know, I have to change your password all the time. Right. So I was like, okay, what's my, what was my childhood phone number? And I remembered it. I remember the phone number I had growing up in Brooklyn, New York.

I don't know, 40 years ago. Do you think you have an old... Can you remember? I can remember my childhood one. I can recall it because it's still my dad's phone number. It doesn't change. It doesn't change.

It doesn't change. I have a weird memory, though. I'll use my debit card once and I memorize the number, which is not good for me because when you have to get up and go get your wallet to buy something online, that's usually why you don't buy it. But I have a freakish memory. Really? You get too lazy to get

to your wallet? I'm on the bed, the wallet's all the way over there on the bedside table. I'd have to roll slightly. I normally keep my wallet in my car when it's at home because it's in my garage and my bedroom is a couple... What? Yeah. You're getting away too much information. You keep your wallet

in your car. car yeah it's a private garage it's locked i know but still at home you know i know the code it's your childhood phone number 540078 um anyways we had ailments alzheimer's dementia oh so we were done with that okay you can run okay um uh oh and how accurate we went with that. Okay, you can run. Okay. And how accurate? We went over that already. How can you improve your memory? Jim said Nanogen and Nintendo. Nintendo DS memory games.

Yeah, memory games actually don't help. Do you know what kinds of things do help? Not just memory, but just general cognition. Playing action first-person shooters. Really? Wow. That sounds like the biggest BS in my life. My memory must be fucking kicking it hard, man.

What? Okay. There's a, there's a lot of research, um, looking at how first person shooters actually improve things like working memory, um, but also have downstream consequences on higher order cognitive processing. So when I talk to older adults, like people over the age of 65, they asked me, how can I improve my memory? Should I do Sudoku?

Should I do crossword puzzle? I'm like, no, there's no evidence that those help. There's some evidence that if you play some first person shooters, if you talk to some really old people that were in the war, their memories are fantastic.

Great story. Now they have trauma memory issues. That's a good dinner party fact right there. That was surprising. Call of Duty or Halo. What does your memory better? What'd you say? Call of Duty or Halo.

Well, Halo's a better game. So Halo. Shots fired. First person shots fired. What are some diseases and disorders associated with memory Alzheimer's is probably the most famous for lack of a better word is dementia the same as

Alzheimer's Alzheimer's so dementia is a broader class so the scientific name for Alzheimer's is dementia of the Alzheimer's type right so you can have other kinds of dementia, like frontal, frontal temporal dementia.

So that affects the frontal and temporal lobes, which is qualitatively different than the disease state of Alzheimer's. Parkinson's, Parkinson's disease also has, affects memory. There are, so there's also post-traumatic stress disorder that results in sometimes memories that can't be not recovered. Right. That are not not remembered. They're they're intrusive. So you have those intrusive kinds of memory.

Drew Barrymore had in 50 First Dates. Yet does that happen? No, it doesn't happen. I hate... You're never going to meet anyone. Finding Nemo is a better way to think about it. So you know Finding Nemo? Yeah. So I think that that's a really

good way to think about memory and that gets at amnesia. Like Dory, Dory had the thing or is it just that he couldn't remember his way home? He couldn't form new memories. Right? I think that was the thing or was it just that he couldn't remember his way home? He couldn't form new memories. Right? I think that was the thing. Dory. Dory couldn't. Yeah, Dory.

I have a bad memory. How many Pixar films have we brought up? I know. What about Memento? Because that one's all about not remembering the day. Who brought up Memento? The guy. He's very unmemorable. Memento is a great memory movie and that memento is the best encapsulation of antiregrade amnesia i've seen and i also love movies

so that's that's antiregrade amnesia not how how you talked about it. You talked about anterograde amnesia as getting a bump on the head or some sort of neurological trauma. And you're going to forget the past, you know, maybe it's two weeks or two years that ha that could happen, but not the way that they depicted in, um, in, in, in the media and movies it's, um, that's called retrograde amnesia. Just asking for a friend. Does anyone ever fake amnesia to get out of, say a marriage or something?

I'm going to say that it's probably happened. Yeah. It has to have happened. I can't remember anything. What's your name? I don't know. This is all new to me. So bump on the head is retrograde

and then memento is more intergrade yeah so you remember how in memento he couldn't form the protagonist couldn't form new memories

yeah then he tattoos notes and he takes pictures that's where you got the tattoo thing from probably memento

yeah yeah people who have slogans on their arms yeah so okay okay my slogan is party on Garth Probably. Oh, I don't like people who have slogans on their arms. Yeah. Okay. Okay. My slogan is party on Garth.

Party on Garth. All right. It's good. But when you do the devil horns, people can see it. Why? Um, so we discussed semantic and episodic and smell.

Okay. So does trauma affect our memory? We did touch on that, but maybe that's, maybe that's where a good spot here to kind of do you know party fact no no i know does trauma affect our memory and jim says yeah so is it though is it is that true at the very beginning jim said trauma is the things you remember more than the good things yeah uh so jim also said it's it's's, I, did you use, was this an inside out reference?

It was, I said core memories, but I do believe for me personally, trauma plays a bigger part in my life than happy memories, happy memories. I can, you know, I like, like, look, I've had 44 birthdays on this world and I can, if you really stretch me, I can remember maybe five. Yeah. Yeah. But that's because they're all the same and you know, they're not, it's not that they're happy memories. It's

that they're, they're nothing, you know, there's sort of nothing, there's nothing unusual about them. I do think that you're right. The trauma can be more memorable than just the everyday average memory. Um, but the thing about trauma is that there's also evidence to suggest that while we will remember the trauma more, and sometimes if you're experiencing something like PTSD, you'll have intrusive memories that you can't inhibit. What we tend to see in the scientific literature is that some of the details in the traumatic experiences are remembered less well. And I think that's tied to the fact that when we are experiencing trauma and then encoding a memory in the context of that trauma, we're having a physiological response.

We're having a stress response. And there are a number of different hormones that are released into the body that impact the way that memories are going to, what we are going to attend to and the ways that memories are formed. So some things about the traumatic experience become really, really memorable. Other things sort of just aren't even represented or consolidated in a way that we can remember them later on. So it's just not, it's not a, yeah, it's more memorable. No, it's not. It's that it's complicated, but it is a little bit different than, you know, all my birthdays are now the same because there's nothing exciting about that. My son asked me the other day,

what was my favorite Christmas? And I was like, uh, last year was pretty good. Yeah. Somebody asked me to say like the happiest day of my life. I'd be like, I don't know,

but I could tell you about six times that ruined my life. Very easily. Yeah. Yeah. The bad ones. All right. Here's a, the part of our show called dinner party facts.

We ask our guests to give us something obscure or interesting that our listeners can use to impress people at a dinner party or a bar about memory. Obscure and interesting about memory. Yeah. You don't remember anything. Yeah, memories are completely unreliable. Oh, I have that one.

Memories are more about predicting the future than recollecting the past. What? How? What do you mean? our memories, we're always thinking retrospectively about the past. Really, I think the function of memory is to allow us to anticipate the future, anticipate how to navigate. Memories are allowing us to sort of move through our environment and our world in an easier way. So this is why your child who's young can have memories and recognize her brother or his brother when he comes around. But in five years, when you ask your son about this period of time, he won't be able to remember these pieces of information because he hasn't laid down the foundation yet in order to predict and add to that framework.

That's what he's doing now. That's what he's doing as he's developing. So memories allow us to predict and expect what's going to happen in the future. That's yeah. That makes sense. Thank you for being on the show. We appreciate this.

I'll endeavor to remember meeting you if I ever see you again. I'm going to remember you. You'll be right. She's out in Boston. Just wear exactly the same outfit, just to really kick it home for me. Thank you, everyone. Thank you for listening to the podcast. Ladies and gentlemen, if you're ever at a party

and someone comes up to you and goes remember when we were at school go I don't know about that walk away goodnight Australia