I Don't Know About That - Rock 'n' Roll

Episode Date: July 11, 2023

Jim loves rock music, but is he as knowledgable as he thinks? Our expert Jack Hamilton (@jack_hamilton) sets us straight on our rock history course. Jim's new special "High & Dry" is now available on Netflix! ADS: BETTERHELP: Visit BetterHelp.com/IDK today to get 10% off your first month. FACTOR: Head to FactorMeals.com slash idkat50 and use code idkat50 to get 50% off. 

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Sometimes in life, we're faced with tough decisions and the path forward isn't always clear whether you're dealing with decisions around career, relationships, or anything else. Therapy helps you stay connected with what you really want whilst navigating through life. Let therapy be your map with betterhelp.com.

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slash idcat50 to get 50% off. So that's the code. Go to factormeals.com slash id. So that's the code. Go to factomeals.com and use the code IDECAT50 to get 50% off. Masturbating at home. Masturbating in the park. What is more socially acceptable?

You might find out, and I don't know about that, with Forrest Short. I want to put my name on this one. Awesome. Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. What a week it's been.

The tragedy in Milan. What? I'm just trying, because we record these shows early. I try to predict what the news is going to be What happened in Milan? Well, there was a murder, wasn't there? Oh

Big one Now, when we look forward Let's find out if there was a murder in Milan I bet you there was She died too soon I even put a she The murder in Milan Another submarine went down

Didn't come up You think they would have learnt their lesson yeah it was too soon honestly too soon try to fix the window yeah

don't use the same submarine it exploded you were just dunking people underwater they found the submarine yeah it exploded oh they found it today

oh okay it pressurized they cleaned it out no it just oh I think it's the same one like they use the same one.

Yeah, exactly. It doesn't exist. So they just dunk people in water. It was more of a weird joke. But you know it exploded, right? It's a good way to die, I reckon. I didn't know that it exploded. I think the best way to die is you just fall asleep

when the oxygen goes away and then you're asleep. Yeah, but then you know it's coming and you have to look... The guy had to look at his son and go, sorry for bringing you on this. No, no, you just kind of get really tired. Probably a lot of trauma dumping in that submarine. Did you see where they.

The last conversations. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, you know, you want the one where you're just ducking down, you're full of hope and then you just explode. What happens to the human body when that happens? I think it explodes. Yeah, does it disintegrate or is there like a finger rolling around what happens what do you mean when the sub explodes and then it fills with water the sub explodes because the pressure implodes yeah implodes and then you're in the pressure

as well so your body you immediately get crushed crushed but do you disintegrate into nothing or do you just like or you or you're like a deflated lilo that's flapping around you're like one of those fly guys at the front of car dealerships? No, I don't think you'll disintegrate into nothing. I think then you'll just kind of, I don't know. I have no clue. I've never exploded before. Yeah.

But I will let you know. They have those videos they put online where it's like, this car is hitting something at 10 miles an hour. This one's hitting at 20. Have you seen that? And they just CG it. They need one for the sub. Get on that.

Let me make a note. I'll do that when I get home. Oh, Punchline Philly has tagged me in a reel. Oh, good podcast. Yeah. Speaking of that,

does Jim have any tips? You actually checked your phone to write down the car theory? No, I just looked at it real quick because I'm a good actor so I wanted to look like I was actually reading it. And now you're actually reading it you're not focusing

you just got caught just they just tagged me i do that with my son i'm like no devices no devices we're watching a family movie and then i'm sneaking my phone gotta check me fantasy team and then he's like dad i thought you said no device i'm like it's a work thing how do you think we pay for these movies um so two episodes in a row with a helmet huh i don't i don't even notice it anymore i've had the helmet on for so long that i think this would be a thing that i do like i think if they ever make a movie of my life the second half of the film would just be a bloke in a helmet like this because this is what we're doing from here on in.

You know what I like about it? Patriotic. Yeah. Right? Got a microphone, so it means business. Yeah, yeah. And it's soft like a real space helmet. Swaddles your head.

You know what I think it would be good for? Sleeping on a plane. Yeah, to be honest with you, yeah. Just get an eye mask. We have a flight tomorrow will you please bring that in it's a short flight but yeah do it take a video please yeah can you yeah yeah i'll take a video if you're telling me it wouldn't be more comfy to sleep on a plane with it oh no no 100% it'd be comfortable we're in full agreement we want you to do are they gonna

number one allow you to board the plane wearing that and then two you put it on when you sit down i'm not doing a very short haul flight i'm not stupid but if we do a longer than three hour Are they going to, number one, allow you to board the plane wearing that? You put it on when you sit down. I'm not doing it for a short-haul flight. I'm not stupid. But if we do a longer-than-three-hour flight, I'll wear it for sleeping purposes. Most people are not seeing this helmet, by the way. Did you describe it last episode?

No, it's none of their business. As far as you're concerned, I'm wearing an extraordinarily realistic NASA space helmet, which was bought from NASA. It looks different on television. Of course it does. But cows look like horses, don't they? That's a good point. It's even been used in a mission, right?

No, don't be silly. Kelly's lying now. That looks worn. No, no, no, no, no, no. We run around the house with a lot of stuff i'll just make sure it up but it makes like you've makes you feel like an astronaut okay um how's your wife like it my wife likes me to talk like chris hemsworth like from extraction now that's her new kink in the helmet so we have to speak like this so uh what are you cooking there tasia come

up behind her. And she's like making like, she always seems to be frying mushrooms, my wife. Any time of day. There's not a lot of options. A vegan steak. If you want to find her, she's got a frying pan out and some mushrooms are getting a beating. We're having mushroom burgers. Yeah.

What else do you eat if you're a vegan? Mushrooms. She just cooks a lot of mushrooms. You know, have I told this story about how our nanny used to bring food? And you ate it? Yeah. What else do you eat if you're a vegan? Mushrooms. She just cooks a lot of mushrooms. You know, have I told this story about how our nanny used to bring food? And you ate it? Yeah. I don't know if you told it on the podcast, but you did tell it.

Yeah. I thought she was cooking for me, but I was just eating her lunch every day. She cooked for me once. She cooked for me once. She's like, Jim, I got you this and this. She's making tortillas from scratch. And she's like, I made you this and here's a tamale. And I was like, oh, wow, this is good. I get this part of me meal.

But I don't give her extra money to bring food into the house. This food was just coming in. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I was like, I guess this is part of the thing. And then I'd go into the fridge each day and there'd be like a plastic container filled with like really exciting Mexican food. So you thought she just made it for you.

I think she was so happy about how I responded to the first meal that she was making me meals all the time. And so I would sometimes, she'd be there just sitting there, like Charlie would be having a nap or something like that, and she'd be reading a magazine. And I'd sit down next to her with her food to fork. I didn't know that part. You would sit with her food and stare in her eyes? I'd sit there and go

this is very good. There's going to be some story that circulates that's like my boss. And then when you found out, how did you find out? I found out because one time, how did I find out? She was eating it. You go, you're my food now.

I'm trying to figure out how long it would take me to say something. Oh, no, that is true. I saw her eat it and finish it. And I'm like, get the fuck out of here. And I went to my wife. She's eating my food. I went to my wife and I said, she's eating all the bloody food. She goes, that's not your food.

Oh, no. How many do you think you ate? Oh, seven or eight. I did this for at least two weeks. And then I remember one time she had a big thing of food and I didn't like the look of it. I didn't eat any of it. No, I didn't like the look of it, but I ate some of it to be polite.

So it was like food that I didn't like. I only ate part of your lunch to be polite. Mmm, yummy. And I was like with my my wife make sure she doesn't make that again and did you ever say anything to her no my wife might have said something I just don't make eye contact in my house with anyone you didn't say anything what was I meant to do

maybe a gift card I probably did. It was a year ago now, but I can't remember that. Alright, well, if you want to see more hijinks. She made these wonderful, she made a lovely ceviche.

I ate bowls of that. She starts bringing more and more quantities. She made enough of that for the last week or something like that, but it had shrimp in it. It's what they call a cocktail. The Mexicans call it cocktail. It's got a lot of – there's a lot of clamato being used.

They love the clamato. They love it. It's right up there. It's one of their ingredients is the clamato. Are you talking about the beer with the clamato? Yeah, that's it. I've never figured that one out. They cook with Clamato in lots of stuff.

Clamato is like a big thing. Is it called a Michelada? If you're living in Australia and you've never heard of Clamato, and you're like, what the fuck are you talking about? It's clam tomato juice. And the Mexicans, they cook with it all the time, and it's quite tasty. And there's a Michelada a michelada michelada

yeah you'd use more dello beer yeah you pour a bit of clamato in there and then you season the rim with like some chili flakes or some shit or some salt like you put the you put the clamato and this is what it says it says uh tomato juice dash of hot sauce soy sauce teriyaki sauce Worcestershire sauce beer and lime juice But I thought it was made with the clam one. In Dodger Stadium, they just shove the clam stuff in there and off you go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you're ready to go. And there's $30.

Anyway, Maria, I'm sorry I ate all your food. She listens? No, I don't think so. Okay. She's a very nice lady. She's a lovely lady. And she's like a member of the family now. We adore her.

She's quite religious and she was she was reading up on you're reading the bible or something one time at lunch and uh i said good day maria what are you up to and she goes nothing you'll enjoy i've seen your comedy that's funny that's funny all That's funny. All right. I like her. I didn't know she even knew what I did. And I'm like, all right, you've done your research. You're still working for the devil, though.

Well, it's because you were eating her lunches and then she showed it to her family. This is the guy right here. The devil is tempting me. She shouldn't have made one meal for me and then denied me the other meals. What was going to happen? All right. We'll go to jimjeffries.com

for all your upcoming shows. You've got a bunch of shows coming up there. There's Canada and the United States. I'll tell you what, I always complimented her on every meal. Every meal. It must have really turned the knife for her. Wherever she was in the house,

I would find her out to go, this is delicious. Yeah, yeah. Too bad you can't have any. I wonder if any part of her brain, she probably assumed it was not malicious, but if there was a small part of your brain that like this guy's fucking evil just eating my lunch in front of me talking about how good it is i don't know i wonder if there's a reddit post somewhere talking about you please welcome our guest jack hamilton good day. Now it's time to play...

Yes, though. Yes, though. Yes, though. Yes, though. Judging a book by its cover. You know what I do want in this show? I want one of those things where I can press buttons and it says different little things from movies and stuff.

I think I'd be very... Oh, like little samples? Yeah. Like a drop? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Say things like, You don't know that! Or something, I don't know. That's what Tommy does on our other podcast.

Yeah, I'd like to have one of those. You know who wouldn't like that? Everybody else. Yeah, I know, but my name's on the podcast. Well, let's talk to Jack Hamilton. Hello, Jack. How are you? I'm looking at Jack.

Jack's got so many keyboards. He couldn't play them all at once. There's not enough hands. He could play one with one hand and another one with one hand and play single notes with his dick, I reckon, with the configuration he's got there. He's also got a lot of books and stuff. So I'm going to say that a professional microphone,

which implies to me that podcasting is a plenty at Jack's house. So I'm going to say that Jack has a podcast on music because of his T-shirt that has an electric guitarist on it. Is it music-based, Jack? It is. All right. I don't have a podcast, but yeah, it is. Are you in a band, Jack?

I am, actually, yeah, yeah. Are you a keyboardist in the band? I am. All right. Is our topic a famous band? Maybe. All right. You don't reckon?

Probably, but I wouldn't say that's the topic. It will involve. Lead singer of Coldplay. You don't recognize? I know the lead singer from Coldplay. It's not lead singer from Coldplay. Okay. Are you Liam Gallagher?

With keyboards? Sure. We're talking about music. Are we talking about a band? No. We're talking about music. Are we talking about the rock and roll music? That's exactly what we're talking about, rock and roll.

I know a lot about the rock and roll music. We'll see. Jack Hamilton is a professor of American Studies at the University of Virginia and the author of the book Just Around Midnight, Rock and Roll,

and the Racial Imagination, which you can buy from all major booksellers. He's also the pop critic for Slate Magazine, where he writes regularly, regularly? I can't say that word,

about music, sports, and other areas of culture, and his writing has appeared in The Atlantic, The New York Times Magazine, The magazine the new yorker npr politico and many other venues you can find them on twitter at jack underscore hamilton um thanks for being here uh and can you tell us a little bit more about you talk about your band if you want your band if you want but also like how you got into rock and roll music and rock and roll studies. Yeah, sure.

So I actually started out my backgrounds as a musician. I started playing music pretty seriously when I was in high school and then was a full time professional musician for a few years after high school. Then I went to college and kind of became a music journalist, still playing music a lot. I became a music journalist, still playing music a lot. And yeah, then for music journalism, I ended up going to get a PhD in like basically American history, American studies, ended up writing a dissertation about rock music in the 1960s, which became my first book. But yeah, I'm still in a band.

I'm in like a small time local cover band in Charlottesville, Virginia, where I live. But yeah, I've been lucky enough to basically be doing music related stuff, like basically my whole adult life and I guess part of even part of my pre-adult life, too. So, yeah. All right. Well, great. Well, thanks for being here.

So this is what we're going to do. I'm going to ask Jim a series of questions on rock and roll. And after he's done answering them, you're going to grade him on his accuracy, zero through 10, 10 being the best. Kelly's going to grade him on confidence, and I'm going to grade him on et cetera. We'll add those all together, and I still don't have any categories. Usually I have a category here, Jack, where I say if you score 21 through 30, you're, you know.

You're a rolling rock. Rock and roll. 21 through 30, rock and roll. 11 through 20, pebble pusher. And then a 0 through 10 stone sniffer. All right. Those are pretty good. Edit all that out.

All right. Just want to get 20 through 30. Okay. Why is it called rock and roll, Jim? Oh, that's a good question. Because it's an adaption of Rolling Stone magazine. Oh, so Rolling Stone came first? Oh, no.

I think it would be the other way. The rock and roll. Let me hear some of the rock and roll music. Rock and roll. I don't know why it's called rock and roll. It's a good question. I've never thought about it. What is? Describe what rock and roll is uh it's got a backbeat you can't lose it any old time you choose it got to be rock and roll music if you want to dance with me okay uh

rock and roll music is uh beat music it was called for a while beat music before that you had skiffle bands and stuff like that but it had a strong... Like going on. And, you know, it's a guitar... For the most part, it's an electric guitar-based art form that's meant to move your body a bit. Who is often credited as the first rock and roll artist? The first sort of star with a hit, I would say, would be Bill Haley. But then, you know, you've got people who were stars, you know. Elvis was after Bill Haley.

I think Buddy Holly was after Bill Haley. I'm going to say Bill Haley. What influential record producer and songwriter famously collaborated with artists like the Beach boys and phil spector contributing to the development of rock and roll he contributed with phil spector and yeah and collaborated with beach boys phil spector he's a famous record or influential influential record producer that is you know oh uh um the guy from sun records or something there's a guy from sun records didn't do that they didn't do that uh i'm gonna say guy gus higginson how long has rock and roll been around and when did it become popular uh i would say the first rock and roll album would have

happened in the very late 1940s uh i'm gonna say really from 1952 and it became popular. I'm going to say from 1949 was the first album. 1952, you've got your Bill Haley's. 1954, you've got your Elvis Presley's. I'm going to say with Elvis Presley, it became more mainstream. So I'm going to say mid-1950s. Okay. What style of music is considered one of the main predecessors

of rock and roll r&b okay which instruments played a prominent role in early rock and roll music um well electric guitars uh was uh the invention of the electric guitar um which instrument drums because you got to have the beats like like a full drum kit. Okay. I'm going to say, like, really early. See, if you've got, like, Skiffle, you've got, like, things like washboards and shit like that. Like, people make that. A lot of rock and roll washboards?

Yeah, but early, the percussion, it was just the banging and the this and the that, the more sort of... But they had drums already, but that's what you're saying is drums were the... Yeah, drums were a thing, yeah. What record label played a crucial role in popularizing rock and roll

by signing and promoting artists like Elvis and Jerry Lee? Sun Records. Okay. Which musician and songwriter recorded the song Rocket 88 in 1951 and what was the significance of this song? Is this a song?

Okay, he was a black artist, I know that much. And okay, this is what I know of this song. Yeah. It was one of the first songs the Beatles heard and it was the first song I believe that George Harrison learnt on his guitar. Therein making George Harrison. Okay, without that song you don't get the Beatles. So the significance of it is it was...

It was the first domino to be pushed for other artists to tune into. Who was the first white artist to have a major hit, and what was the song? I'm going to go Bill Haley, Rock Around the Clock. Okay. What musical style influenced by rock and roll emerged in the late 1950s and early 60s featuring the clean-cut harmonizing vocal groups? Say that again.

What musical style influenced by rock and roll emerged in the late 1950s and early 60s featuring clean-cut harmonizing vocal groups? Yeah. I don't think they were called boy bands and girl bands at that stage. But if you're talking like the Temptations, the Supremes, things like that. It was like musical style. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know what you call that.

But like the Temptations, the Supremes, the Foundations. What is rockabilly? That one. The guy. Do I have to repeat that? In 1977, a plane carrying what band crashed in Gillsburg, Mississippi? Was it Leonard Skinner? I don't know.

We'll find out. Yeah, I've seen a thing on this band. Do you know them? You know a song? No, I don't let it skin in a freezer. But I don't know if they die. There was... Oh, I know there was a plane accident that involved...

What year was it? 77. 77. So there was a plane accident that involved... Who's the one with Ozzy Osbourne? You're talking about the guitarist? Yeah. Shit, I can't remember his name right now.

Randy Rhoads. Randy Rhoads. Thank you, Aaron. That's what you think? Okay. Okay. Which rock band was designated by the Guinness Book of Records as the world's loudest band in 1972?

I think the world's loudest band was probably The Who when you looked at all the stacked up things. But from going to concerts myself, I want to say ACDC. Okay. What British rock band pioneered the use of the light show? Pink Floyd. Which American musician won the Nobel Prize for Literature in 2016? Bob Dylan

I don't know the answer That's probably a good guess That is the answer Which of these artists was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame three times? They've been written to Elvis, John Lennon, Eric Clapton, or Ginger Baker Yeah, okay So this is a trick question, right? So Elvis Presley can't go

in there three times because he never had a band. John Lennon only really had a band in a solo career, so that's twice. I'm going to say it's Eric Clapton for his work with session guitarists, work with Cream and solo career. Is Cream solo guitar and session guitarist? Well, he did

a lot of... Yeah, he had other bands, you know? Yeah, but I mean, like, he's the guitarist on While My Guitar Gently We of... Yeah, he had other bands, you know? Yeah, but I mean, he's the guitarist on While My Guitar Gently Weeps. Yeah, but there was other bands too, besides... I'm saying Eric Clapton.

Okay, you don't know any of their bands. It's like Cream. Okay. Why'd you just erase that question? Because we don't need it. Okay.

All right, that's it. What was that question? Who was Australia's first famous rock and roll person? Give it to me. Give it to me. Who was it? Johnny O'Keefe, the wild man of rock.

You know you make me want to shout, kick my heels up and shout, Johnny O'Keefe, man. Wait. Johnny O'Keefe. He had a cover of Johnny O'Keefe. That wasn't the answer from the place that I got it. I didn't recognize the name at all, so I was like. What was the can't remember i'll look it up okay i should look it up uh keith the wild man rock um jack hamilton how did jim do his knowledge of rock and roll zero through

ten tens of the best so i'm grading him on like i'm not grading him on the answers to individual questions just like overall yeah yeah overall yeah i'm going to go back through and we'll talk about him honestly like he did pretty well. I would say probably like seven and a half, eight. Yeah, he was very confident. Whenever he's not being as funny, he knows a lot more about it. And then you're still funny in some ways, but you take it very seriously even with this helmet on.

Why are you looking around like that? I forgot that I was even wearing it. You don't even think about the helmet after a while. How do you do on confidence? I'm going to give him a seven and a half. Yeah, I give him a minus two and et cetera. But you're still rock and roll, dude. Don't worry about that. Still rock and roll to me.

Especially that helmet. By the way, I forgot to ask you, Jack, are you a doctor? Should I call you Dr. Hamilton or Dr. Hamilton? I am. No, you don't need to call me that. Okay. Do you ever make people call you doctor, though? No.

Okay. Just checking. No, I don't. My students call me professor, but no one really calls me doctor. I guess occasionally it happens, but I don't like put doctor on form. I'm not a medical doctor, so I don't want to get people confused with that. Are you a doctor. I guess occasionally it happens, but I don't like put doctor on form. I'm not a medical doctor, so I don't want to get people confused with that. Are you a doctor of love?

He's a doctor of rock and roll. Yeah, that's my wife. You ever get her to call you a doctor? She actually has a PhD as well, so we're a house of doctors. Doctor, doctor. We're a house of learned doctors. All right, Jack, why is it called rock and roll?

Yeah, it's a good question. The term usually is attributed to the person who coined it regarding the music. It's usually attributed to Alan Freed, the famous disc jockey who was based out of Cleveland. That's actually why the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is in Cleveland, Ohio. And rock and roll, I think, originally was a slang term for sex. So much like jazz music, it's named after sex. What, is jazz named after what? So that's the best I could say for the etymology of rock and roll. Jazz the shit out of it?

Wait, jazz is a? You said like jazz is. People apparently did used to say that, yes. You know what they're doing in there? A little bit of jazz. Yeah, okay, so that's why the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is in Cleveland. Why? This is the thing now.

They got to change the name now because now it's just like the Music Hall of Fame, you know, because they'll put like hip-hop artists in there and they'll put like it's not just rock and roll now i feel like because they'll be like oh the beastie boys are going to the rock and roll hall of fame you're like what they're not a good example because they'd actually play and they play like guitars but like i think like uh who who are you gonna be prejudiced against i'm not prejudiced against anything i think there's a go in there but i think oh i think jay-z's in there and it's like you wouldn't say oh jay-z's rock and roll he's like hip-hop you know so it should be music hall of fame i'm saying that's what i'm saying yeah i think like tupac just went in um yeah it's definitely uh they're they're kind of

accepting um all genres there's a ton of country artists in there they're running out of people aren't they yeah it's basically just an all-purpose music hall of fame it's kind of dumb in my opinion it's a wonderful museum though oh it's fantastic day's a fantastic day out. Lovely. Oh, it's good. It's good. It's like a very good hard rock cafe. I don't like hard rock cafes. That's a great description. The best hard rock cafe you've ever been to, hands down.

I don't like hard rock cafes. There's no food there. It's not the food. It's just the wandering around. But it has Elvis' gun collections and things like that. There's cool things in there. And then there's the full queen outfits. I mean, it's good. and things like that. Like there's cool things in there. And then there's like the full queen outfits and the, you know,

I mean, there's like, it's good. It's good stuff. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Sometimes in life we're faced with tough choices and the path forward isn't always clear. Most of the time it really helps to talk to someone who is on the outside so you can get help looking at the big picture and deal with the facts over emotion.

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really flavorful foods so very easy to maintain head to factormeals.com slash idk50 and use the code idkat50 to get 50% off. That's the code idkat50 at factormeals.com slash idkat50 to get 50% off. That's your code idkat50. Yeah, it's a great museum. It's just like this sort of weird, the way they like induct people. And like, yeah, as you mentioned, like Clapton being in three different times, it's like, you know, maybe a little overkill. Is there a panel?

Yeah, there's actually like a voting body, like a bunch of different critics and writers and stuff like that. I think like industry people too. You know, it's like the Academy Awards and stuff like that uh i think like industry people too you know it's like it's like the academy awards or something like that um there's like all these people who vote on it yeah and there's always like um there's always uh like controversy let's see who is this year is billy joel in there yet yeah i'm sure he's in he's gotta be in by now i feel like he'd be let off he wouldn't get in there here's who's going in this year. Okay, I'll tell you if they're in. Oh, wait, they're already in there.

They're inducted May 3rd. Okay. Kate Bush. Kate Bush. Now you run out of people. She got the Stranger Things push. She's got your Weathering Heights, bloody Kate Bush. No, get out of town.

Sheryl Crow. Yeah, but even so, was she that big an artist? She had a few hits. All she wants to do was have some fun. Yeah, and what else? Missy Elliott. What other hits? Go on, give me all your show.

That other one from the Aaron Brockovich. If it makes you happy. Aaron Brockovich movie. No, that's not enough. You can't get in the Hall of Fame. That's like getting in the NBA Hall of Fame because she played in the league, but she was a bench player at best

Missy Elliott she was a backup singer for Michael Jackson I'd say Missy Elliott I could give or take her but Missy Elliott she's got a lot of hits I understand that

Missy Elliott's very influential and a lot of people reference her as an inspiration to their music so I'll give Missy Elliott George Michael

have you watched the documentary on this to their music. Sure. So I'll give Missy Elliott. George Michael? Ah. Yeah. Have you watched the documentary on this? Yeah, I have. It's good. If it was just Wham, if Wham got in, I'd be all for it. But no, I don't need the Faith album. Give me another one.

Willie Nelson. Come on. I'm going to say something controversial. Overrated Willie Nelson. He's one of these blokes who's just stuck around long enough that we have to go legend he's just been around forever but like what's a Willie Nelson hits there's a lot of Willie Nelson hits

give me them no Google no Google Willie Nelson nut I'm not a Willie Nelson nut you're always on my mind alright Jack do you know any Willie Nelson nut. Because I'm not a Willie Nelson nut. You're always on my mind. All right, Jack. Do you know what the Willie Nelson is?

Do you know that was after the Elvis cover? He didn't write it either. How do you feel about this, Jack, Willie Nelson? Sure. Yeah. Rage Against the Machine? Oh, Willie Nelson. They shouldn't be in there.

Yeah, he deserves to be in. Yeah, see, Jack says Willie Nelson. Name me five songs quickly, Jack, Willie Nelson. Redheaded Stranger. No, no, no. I'm asking you, Jack. Okay. Five Willie Nelson songs quickly.

The Nightlife. I don't know. No one knows. Folsom City Blues, I Walk the Wire. Oh, man. On the Road Again. Yeah, yeah. I can't wait to get on.

He deserves an honorable mention at best, Willie Nelson. Yeah, yeah, of course. Okay, but I'm going to tell you what the songs are. Always on my mind. On the Road Again. Seven. Oh, Blue Eyes Crying in the Rain. That's a good one.

Yeah. Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to Be Cowboys. Did he write that one? I don't know. He's singing. Me and Bobby McGee. Cowboys. Yeah, he wrote yeah a city of new orleans i like that song all right move off willie nelson you i think i've proven my point okay let's continue with the questions overrated um what is rock and roll jim said it's got a backbeat you can't lose it it's electric guitar based

yeah I thought that was a great answer yeah yeah okay that's a good answer there you go yeah I didn't know

if there was like an actual answer as long as you're yeah like I feel like reciting Chuck Berry lyrics like isn't gonna that's the best way to define rock and roll

oh Chuck Berry might have been the first rock star oh no he'd be too see okay so the thing because the Beatles are called the Beatles because of the beat music, and that's why it's spelled B-A-T,

and because of Buddy Holly and the Crickets is why they're called the Beatles, but they used to call it beat music, and so it's got a back beat. I think beat music is the definition. I think I got it right. So who is often credited as the first rock and roll artist? Is it Bill Haley? This is like one of those questions where like you know you ask 10 people and you'll

get 10 different answers i think like bill haley's that's not the answer i would give but i can understand the um you know i can see the justification behind it i think like i think chuck berry would probably be a better it would be yeah if i could take my time back i would say i would give like bill haley partial credit bill i would say bill haley's me first white guy how about that that was a question yeah yeah i think that's he predates elvis so yeah he predates elvis there you go i don't even know bill haley until you said it and i thought you were kidding and then you kept saying it and then i like looked it up in the comments we're going to rock around the clock tonight when the clock you don't know that song yeah that was his big hit and he was like a fat guy that just was bald

and he had a little bit of a curl of hair that went down and that was like girls would scream bill haley in the comments yeah i just didn't know his name i know exactly what you're talking about now so all right and then what influential record producer and songwriter famously collaborated with artists like the beach boys and phil specter contributing to the development of rock and roll was it gus higginson is that a fake name so i i this one kind of threw me because i think when i saw this question earlier i thought the answer was phil specter i didn't see his name there um because he's more of a he's a producer he wasn't an artist um so yeah so i actually i don't know the that would have been my guess I would have said I think you put the answer

in the question because Phil Spector who collaborated with all these people Gus Hingison's made up but Phil Spector was the guy Phil Spector

I've got a lot of opinions on Phil Spector I do because the thing is like so they reckon he killed that woman or whatever like that and then

he goes to court and he wears different wigs and all the people talk about is how silly he looks in the wigs fuck you people with hair fuck you he's a bald man trying to look nice for court and he's having a go but he did kill the person well yeah i think if you kill someone i think if you watch that case back there's a there's a i i i'm think he did kill the girl but i'm not i think it might have been accidental i don't i i think she made it yeah i don't know i don't know watch it again there's a lot of there's a lot of gray area in that one that one's no good but him in the wigs did not help his situation i feel like bald shaming is generally allowed for murderers

if he wore elton john gets bald shamed all the time for his dumb wigs, and it's not right. Elton John doesn't get bald shamed. You don't think people make jokes about Elton John's wigs. I think people just like Elton John. I don't know. He's in a bit of trouble at the moment, Elton John. What do you do?

There's a guy in Britain called Philip Schofield who runs the morning show, and it turns out he was having sex with an 18-year-old staff member who he hadn't known since he was 15. So he has to be off. And then Elton's come out and just gone, oh, you're just shaming him because he's a homosexual.

And it's not a good look for Elton because he did know the boy from when he was 15. So Elton probably should have kept out of it. Rock and roll hall of fame. How did rock and roll become popular how did it become popular and how long has it been around um i think jim was saying i don't want to you know i don't know what the case is the thing yeah we've moved on all right how did so jack how did rock and roll become popular and how long has it been around yeah this was actually a pretty good answer too. Like I think Jim said late 40s. Again, it's one of those ones where if you ask,

depending on who you ask, people give different answers. I usually, you know, this came up in a later question, but Rocket 88, that record, which I guess we'll talk about in a bit, that's 1951. And that's often cited by historians as the first rock and roll record. I would probably, if I i like gun to my head if i had to argue something i would probably uh argue for rocket 88 so 51 uh but late 40s is like pretty you know pretty close and um and i think 51 is is earlier than a lot of people would put it

um like in terms of just like when people sort of general conception of when rock and roll gets so i think i think late 40s is a pretty good answer and it became popular or mainstream as a jim said elvis is that when it really um there was like little richard and chuck berry and bill haley were all um were all national stars prior to elvis but like certainly elvis is kind of when you know, it really, really takes off. And Elvis is, I think, kind of first national hits are very early 1956. So it's like in the, yeah, it's really like rockin' 88 is 51. But it's really not until the mid 50s where you get like this sort of big kind of collection of early rock and roll artists who are all having hits at the same time and that's when you start seeing the phrase rock and roll appear places like pretty commonly like when

when rocket 88 came out in 1951 no one actually called it a rock and roll record it's been kind of like retroactively uh designated as as the first rock and roll record yeah and you can talk about we can jump ahead there rocket 88 uh who was the the musician that recorded it and then you said it was significant because it's the first rock song you said yeah so it's actually it's it's a funny it's kind of a funny story it's uh it's credited to a band called jackie brenston and his delta cats uh but it's actually like the person who's really behind rocket 88 is ike turn, the notorious future husband of Tina Turner. So Ike Turner was playing piano on that record and wrote it.

And Ike Turner basically put, he was like the sort of brains behind Jackie Brunson and his Delta Cats. So it's really Ike Turner who's the sort of driving force behind that record. Yeah. You don't hear a lot of bands like that. There are some, but like the So-and-So and the Blah-Blah-Blah, it's like too long now. I think there's like Nathaniel Radcliffe or something.

Jackie Brunson and the Delta Cats. And what style of music is considered one of the main predecessors of the rock and roll gyms at R&B? Yeah, absolutely. Rhythm and blues. All right. Yeah. Do you know how to do rhythm and blues?

Yeah. Go there. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, Yeah, I just wanted you to sing again. Which instruments played a prominent role in the early rock and roll music? Jim says electric guitar and drum kit. Were those them? Yeah, definitely. role in the early rock and roll music jim says electric guitar and drum kit were those them yeah definitely i mean like it's like you know i think electric guitar is kind of the definitive um rock

and roll instrument um also i mean piano was actually really really common on uh early rock and roll records most of them had piano um and there are certainly certain rock and roll early rock and roll stars like jerry lee lewis or little richard who were you know really really known as piano players that starts to fade a little bit in the 1960s. But yeah, I mean, electric guitar from very early on is the, you know, kind of iconic rock and roll instrument. You know, Chuck Berry being an electric guitarist, Buddy Holly played guitar. And certainly, electric guitar had been around for decades prior to rock and roll. But I think, yeah, it's like, you know,

the electric guitar is really like, that's the quintessential rock and roll instrument. So yeah, that's a 10 out of 10 on that answer. What about washboards? Yeah. Washboard. That's for the skiffle music.

What's skiffle? Yeah. I've never heard of skiffle. Skiffle bands were a thing through the North of England that the, that John Lennon and the Aquari-Men were a skiffle band, which were a bit more sort of basic instruments playing single chords, sort of a strumming sort of noise that drove it forward. It was very, to rock and roll, it's caveman-esque before.

Is that right, Jack? Am I saying that right? Yeah, yeah. No, that's totally right. I mean, it's right in specifically with regards to the UK, like Skiffle never really caught on in the US. It was like very much a UK based thing. And similarly, you mentioned earlier beat music,

like beat music was a phrase that was really confined to the UK. Like you wouldn't see that in the American press, but it's like that's what the UK press in the 50s and 60s, early 60s called called rock and roll music basically yeah and skiffle skiffle is pretty interesting it's like a uh it's kind of like a mash-up of a bunch of different things there's a lot of like country influences in it and sort of folk music so there's it was more um yeah like acoustic guitars washboards like as you said uh you know bass drums um sometimes not even drums but like yeah yeah yeah totally like two string basses but yeah like you know so

many major British musicians of the 60s and onward kind of cut their teeth in skiffle bands there's a great clip on YouTube you can look up of like Jimmy Page when he's like 12 years old was on some like talent show in england he's like wearing a suit and he's like my name's james page and i play skiffle and uh yeah so it's like you know future future led zeppelin uh mastermind jimmy page started as a skiffle player well it's also it's like so the part of the reason that all the bands jerry and the pacemakerakers and the Beatles and all that stuff, a lot of them came out of Liverpool is because that was where the port was

and that's where the albums came through and the sailors would bring in the music from America and that's where, it wasn't being distributed down in London and all that type of stuff and that's why a lot of the musicians came from the north. That makes sense. I always wondered why, how, I feel like at some point england started to surpass america in rock and roll that's well okay so you had the british invasion in the 1960s jack but okay well okay yeah i mean like i don't know about surpass but certainly like england's definitely like punched above its weight i would say you know it's a relatively small country um

and the amount of yeah like major you know obviously the 60s you have the beatles and the stones and you know all the british invasion bands the who uh the kinks um but then certainly you know you know it never goes away you know the 70s have led zeppelin david bowie queen you know the 80s obviously have tons of you know yeah i mean. I mean, it's like English music. Yeah, it's pretty impressive. I don't know if I'd say surpassed, but they definitely kept pace. It's the weather because, no, a lot of live music venues and little tiny bars and stuff like that because people like to be entertained

and people want to do, like, you know what I mean? This is why you get no rock bands from the Seychelles. The Maldives are yet to give us a great rock band. You know what I mean? This is why you get no rock bands from the Seychelles. The Maldives are yet to give us a great rock band. That's true. In Hawaii, they got some really good... Yeah, yeah. The... Yeah, yeah.

Nothing thumps in Hawaii. It's too chill. Yeah, that's a good point. Good point. We've talked about this on the road, Jim. Remember, it seems that England is big on bands and groups and america america likes the individual individual so there's very few solo artists like this david bowie and there's a few people from britain but for the most part and then and then in america

there are bands obviously eagles are huge because what's the top five american bands of all time yeah i mean like i guess like i mean commercially yeah like probably the eagles or would be one of them yeah yeah oh can you hear me yeah who else who else because i feel like britain you can just rattle off like you did led zeppelin the beatles the rolling stones the kinks you can you can do these things the who you can do it very quickly in america you go like are the eagles the grateful dead but then if you're going to solo artists you go elvis presley madonna you know you can do that a lot quicker do you think that's about americans being more individualistic and arrogant yeah i don't know maybe i mean like

certainly the 80s you know you got like guns and roses motley crew and then obviously grunge you know you got nirvana pearl jam soundgarden all that stuff i i love but yeah no it's true i mean there is like that it's like there's it's it's weird that there's not more you know when you think about like the sort of most iconic rock bands uh particularly in the 60s and 70s like a lot of them are british for sure i like 90s grunge music i think america did 90s music uh and britain like all the 90s but it's when i was young so that's where your music taste comes from but um when you said motley crue just then can we agree that they're overrated shit motley yeah yeah oh my god i'm not gonna defend every single they were big every single motley crue song can be sung by a boyfriend

like a boyfriend a boy band like um one direction no problem i can't even think of he's the one to call dr feel good he's the one makes you feel all right they're just fucking pop songs and for some reason they were called like guys hair metal or whatever but they're not heavy they're not cool they're fucking losers yeah you did this on the podcast already this is a very strong opinion i have a very i went and saw him in concert and i was like oh yuck here's other bands from america eagles aerosmith was big metallica guns and roses beach boys right but the doors heavy heavy metal from america number one american food fighters you knowwood Mac's a big band

There's some big bands Jack, what's your opinion on Australian rock and roll music and do you know much about it and if so which bands do you rate? Yeah, I'm a huge ACDC fan I love ACDC They would definitely be my favourite Australian band

I like the Bee Gees a lot too I love the Bee Gees a lot too, actually. I love the Bee Gees. There's a lot of arguments that the Bee Gees are British, whether they're Australian or British, but they cut their teeth in Australia. I guess they were British originally, but grew up in Australia. Do I have that right?

That's correct. I think they were born in Manchester. And then when the twins were like six years old, they moved over to Australia. By the time the twins were nine years old, they were on Australian bandstand TV shows and stuff like that. And early Bee Gees music is right up there with the Beatles, like very good stuff.

But before they went disco, the disco stuff's more popular. I could talk about the Bee Gees all day. What do we rate about Men at Work, Midnight Oil, Australia Crawl, and Crowded House, even though they're from New Zealand. Yeah, so Men at Work I kind of only know through the big songs that were on the radio when I was a kid. Midnight Oil is a band that I know of more than I really know. I will confess I don't really know the third band that you mentioned. And then Crowded House.

Yeah, I mean, Crowded House had some. Again, they're like a band I more know just through the stuff that was on the radio and on MTV when I was a kid. But yeah, I don't know. Australia certainly produced a lot of excellent music. What about Jet? Do you like Jet? Are they the heavy metal band? They're the ones that go, oh, you got to be my girl.

Oh, okay. They had the first that go, oh, you got to be my girl. Oh, okay. They had the Apple, the first Apple iPod commercial. Oh, right. Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah, that's like the only Jets song I know. What about Wolf Mother was a big one. Wolf Mother.

What about Tame Impala? It's a big forest band. Oh, yeah. Tame Impala is good. I forgot that they were Australian. Yeah. Yeah, they're actually really good. It's technically a single guy,

but yeah, we'll call them a band. Oh, right. All right. Who was the first white artist of a major hit? And what was the song? Was it Bill Haley rock around the clock? That might be right. I can't remember if that's came before. It was definitely Bill Haley. I would say it's either that or his cover of shake, rattle and roll. I can't remember which one came first, but they're right around the same time. So yeah, I, but it is, I think, I think it would be Bill Haley would be the correct answer. How big is Dion in the world of history of rock and roll? He's pretty big, right?

Yeah. I mean, he had a lot of hits and was like a great singer. He's a little bit later, like Dion kind of gets big, I think in the late fifties, early sixties. Like a lot of hits and was like a great singer. He's a little bit later. Like Dion kind of gets big, I think, in the late 50s, early 60s. Like a lot of his big hits are early 60s. But he was a really very highly regarded vocalist for sure. Do you know him, Jim? Dion? No. Run Around Sue, The Wanderer.

And I'm The Wanderer. Yeah, good songs. I've never heard of him. Yeah, well, I was doing a gig one time. It was like a recovery. It was like 12-step recovery thing where they bust all these people and they were in like 90-day programs. But haven't these people been through enough?

So there was like music and a comedy or whatever. And so I'm up in this green room and I'm with the other comics and this guy walks in and he's just like owning the room kind of, like talking to to everybody he's like so i'll go up there i'll play a couple songs i'll do this and then i'll bring you up and then blah blah blah and this and then he goes yeah and then my friend introduced me he goes and this is forest she's one of the comments he goes well he doesn't you don't look that funny that's what he said to me i go well you don't look that good at whatever you do buddy whatever whatever and then we start walking down the hall go to stage i go who's that guy and i go you know dion i go the singer dion that's like in the hall of fame yeah that's

him huh well that was embarrassing i just told him he was a piece of shit oh i always get him mixed up with celine dion yeah anyways he was a nice guy he didn't he didn't mind it that i guess but uh yeah i just told a guy that's the rock and roll of fame like you suck guy anyways he started with you first i know but he's got the creds Roll Hall of Fame, like, you suck, guy. I mean, he started with you first. I know, but he's got the creds. I'm just like, yeah, I was... Anyways, fun times. The Forest doesn't look that funny. That's a compliment.

I wasn't about to do it there. You look funny. What musical style influenced by rock and roll emerged in the late 50s and early 60s featuring clean-cut harmonizing vocal groups? Jim said Temptation, Supremes, but he couldn't remember what you'd call them. Yeah.

Yeah, I think the answer is doo-wop would be the sort of genre of music. And certainly, yeah, I mean, the Temptations would have come, you know, sort of probably started out as singing doo-wop. You know, they're more kind of classified with Motown, but a lot of the Motown groups came out of the doo-wop tradition. So, yeah, doo-wop is basically like, you know, harmonizing vocals was pretty popular in the 1950s. And then rockabilly, I don't remember.

This says mouth noises here. What'd you do, Jen? He was... I remember the mouth noises as being pretty accurate, though. I thought rockabilly was like, I don't know what rockabilly is. What is it? Yeah, I was thinking more like banjos. I don't know.

Yeah. So it's like, it comes from, I think that country music back in like the 20s and 30s used to be called hillbilly music before that was like deemed offensive. So rockabilly is basically a combination of rock and roll and hillbilly. So it's basically like country inflected rock and roll or rock and roll and hillbilly. So it's basically like country inflected rock and roll or rock and roll inflected country. So people like Carl Perkins. Yeah, I mean, like a lot of this stuff,

I think Jim mentioned Sun Records before. Some early Johnny Cash would get classified as rockabilly. Johnny Cash is shit. Johnny Burnett. There's a bunch of, yeah, just like it's... That hasn't got to be me. Yeah, there's a bunch of yeah like it's it's that hasn't got to him yet yeah there's a delay there so that he

he doesn't know but Johnny Cash is no good you don't like Johnny Cash I like Johnny Cash Johnny Cash doesn't have any songs no I heard about this you quizzed me one time and I named you like 10 songs

and you go those aren't songs over the course of 50 years so it's a it's a hit a decade no but those are the songs i liked i got more songs than that okay you're brilliant um uh in 1977 a plane carrying what band crashed in gillsburg mississippi you said leonard skinner then changed it to randy rhodes it's leonard skinner um i think randy rhodes is like early 80s. But yeah, it's Leonard

Skinner in the I'm pretty pretty confident. Yeah, Randy Rhodes. Right there. Yeah. Randy Rhodes. I just I just saw this like it was on YouTube or something. They crashed that plane that crashed crashed in the Ozzy Osbourne's bus. Yeah. Whoa.

Yeah, like they just went flying one morning when they were on tour yeah I think he might have been on the bus and the plane crashed into it or something it's something crazy I just saw this YouTube thing

so I just yeah it's like he's always someone like he was an amazing guitar player I'm not a huge yeah I'm not a huge like um

I'm not a huge metal guy but like I mean Brandy Rhodes is like a genius guitar player I mean like the stuff he played on is is incredible like he's kind of first people that really introduced that sort of classical

um you know uh finger tapping like like eddie eddie van halen got a lot of his stuff um i think through randy rhodes he was actually like a pretty he he taught a lot of guitar um so a lot of the like 80s metal guys who came out of LA um actually took lessons from him yeah so the video I saw this is what this is terrible so they were touring and I want to say they were in Florida somewhere and in the morning Randy Rhodes woke up and this guy that was part of the tour or what no said hey you want to go fly in this small plane so they everyone was sleeping they went up flying and they started buzzing the buses where people were sleeping, like,

coming down and buzzing them. And it clipped, I think, the bus that Ozzy Osbourne was on, and then the plane just crashed, and everybody came out of their buses, and he was dead. And I was like, fun times. Oh, he's dead in the field. That's what Ozzy would have sounded like. That's me, Ozzy Osbourne.

Sharon, he's in the field. He's field dead. Drugs. Which rock band was designated by the Guinness Book of World Records as the world's loudest band in 1972? Was it The Who or ACDC? I think it is The Who. I think that's the answer.

Ah, okay. For their Live at leeds show which is uh was turned into a live album and is a great great live album i wonder how they just did they have a decibel meter or something i don't know they're like this loud they used to have a lot of amps behind the whole backdrop was like amps yeah yeah and then the british rock band pioneered that used to the light show. Was it Pink Floyd? I think that's right. Yeah. Honestly, like I'm not a huge Pink Floyd guy. Me neither.

I think Pink Floyd is dog shit. If I had to answer that, that's what I would guess. Forrest gets a hard on for Pink Floyd. You sometimes just see him just sweaty in a corner masturbating. He had to wait there in the delay. You'll get it. You'll get it eventually. You've got a laugh in the mail, sir.

Coming in five, four, three, two. I'm gonna have Jack cut out all the damage. Ah, yeah. There it is.

There it is. That's the laugh in the mail. See? See? There's a little bit of delay. Yeah, Pink Floyd's great.

What do you mean Pink Floyd's dog shit? Don't like Pink Floyd. You like Oasis. You know how much better Pink Floyd is than Oasis? Oasis is garbage. Oasis, very important band. No, they're not.

If they never existed, nothing would have changed. Bullshit. They brought back rock and roll to the masses, Oasis. Get the fuck out of here. Before that, we were just popping pills and listening to fucking techno in the early 90s. The British Revolution came back, Oasis and Blue. Without that, we missed a step. It's not here anymore, but if you would have went to the Pink Floyd exhibit,

not only sonically did they change everything, electronically with the music, visually, they were one of the most influential bands ever. All these things you say make me like them less. Well, you wouldn't have had Oasis, well, how about that? I don't know about that. I just read something about the gallaghers they said without pink floyd there'd be no us no it's the same video it was on the same video with randy rhodes which american musician won the nobel prize for literature in

2016. is it bob dylan yep it definitely is bob dylan yeah yeah jim was very confident of his answer in that one and and correctly so uh bob dylan is the only rock and roll musician to win um a nobel prize in literature and probably will be the only one for for a pretty long time but yeah it's bob zimmerman when do you call him that well i see him um and then uh you already mentioned it eric clapton is the uh artist to be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame three times I must yeah I think it's as it's as a member of cream a member of the yard birds and then as a solo artist so two of them are bands and then yeah his solo he's in as a solo artist too I think he's the only person

that's in three times there might be Paul McCartney might be in three times if wings is in I don't think they are though um i think clapton's the only one who's in three times well wings is the name you gotta put wings in i know i would put wings in i'm a i'm a wings i like wings but uh i don't know that they're i don't think that they're in maybe the name is dumb name wings um uh eric clapton is gonna go in a fourth time for his anti-vax song, I heard, too. So that's going to be good. Is he an anti-vax song? Oh, my God.

Yeah. He wrote one with, like, Van Morrison. It's the worst song you'll ever hear, and you're like, we've got to put this out there. Like, just stop, guys. Oh, is it an anti-vax song? It's like, yeah. I can find it.

It's like anti-COVID lockdowns or something. They got worked up about England's COVID policy or something. Oh, I wish we had the lockdowns again. Oh, what a wonderful time. We should lockdown for one year every three. Wonderful. And you should know they're coming. Like, find someone to shag quickly. It's coming in 10.

Not everybody's house is as nice as yours to be locked down in. Well, change that. Is he going to become a politician? See, I have a theory that I probably had relationships in my 20s that would have worked out if I didn't live in such small accommodations. The bigger the house, the longer the marriage. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You can get away from it. There was people that were locked down. There was like six people living in a house like 16th the size of yours. That's not fun. Oh, if they were fun people. You can only play Uno so many times. Oh, you get other board games. They were still delivering board games.

What was the question for Australia? So when I Google the answer, it was, you said Jimmy O'Keefe, right? Johnny O'Keefe. Or Johnny O'Keefe. But the trivia thing I got it from, that was not the answer on there. It was a name that I had never heard. I can't remember. It's one of those trivia sites that you can't see the questions

until you've answered all the questions. And it's the last question out of like 75 and I'm not doing it. Was it Yothu Yindi? No, it was three names. It was three full names. Yothu Yindi was the name of an Aboriginal band. They're a rock? Yeah, they're a rock

Aboriginal band. Oh, yeah. We'll close out the episode with a bit of Yothu Yindi. Find me, treaty, yeah. I don't think we can play music on this podcast. Yeah, but we're trying

to advertise Yothu Yindi. I think we need rights to play music. I don't think we're allowed to play music. We can play it all we want on Patreon in September. I could sing it for you,

but it would be racially intolerant. Because I would be saying the words like gibberish. Let's save that for later. Yeah, do that at home. Do it in the shower. I reckon I'd get close, but I might get it a bit wrong. It's like when you sing Feliz Navidad and you just make up the words. I don't make up the words.

I do. Feliz Navidad. Feliz Navidad. Feliz Navidad Feliz Navidad Feliz Navidad I want to wish you a Merry Christmas. Wait, you say Feliz Navidad

and then what after that? Feliz Navidad Feliz Navidad Feliz Navidad Feliz Navidad Feliz Navidad Feliz Navidad No, it's still

Feliz Navidad. That's good. You changed the whole greeting I wanna wish you There's a little bit Prosperos años In Felicidad I wanna wish you a Merry Christmas Yeah, what are they saying in English? I wanna wish you a Merry Christmas

I wanna wish you a Merry Christmas They're saying the same thing in Spanish From the bottom of our hearts. They actually say Happy New Year. Okay, that's different. We're going to get sued for that, too. All right, we've got to cut that out. I don't think I've got the words even close to right.

No. So I don't think we can get sued. I changed the song by 15%. Oh, yeah, yeah. And the court that'll hold up. All right, Jack, this is a part of our episode called Dinner Party Facts. We ask our guests to give us some sort of fact that's interesting or obscure about this topic that can use to impress people what do you got for us so

my brain was sort of jogged to this because um robert kennedy's son as you guys probably know is currently running for president and is like kind of a whack job um actually more than probably more than kind of a whack job but it reminded me of one of my favorite pieces of sort of like i don't even know if it's trivia but kind of like musical anecdotes is I'm a big Rolling Stones fan. And years ago, I learned that when the Rolling Stones were recording Sympathy for the Devil, which is obviously one of their most famous songs, they're recording it in 1968. And they were, their lyric, I shouted out who killed the Kennedys when after all it was you and me, which is probably one of the most famous lines in that song, was originally

written as I shouted out who killed Kennedy, but after all it was you and me. And because they were writing it about John F. Kennedy, who had been obviously assassinated five years earlier. While they were in the process of recording Beggar's Banquet, Robert Kennedy was shot. And like basically everyone around the Stones was like, you guys got to take that lyric out. It's so offensive now.

Like everyone's going to think that this has been now a song about Bobby Kennedy being killed. And it's going to come out like a month or two after his assassination. And the Stones didn't want to change the line. So instead they just made it plural uh and they changed it to i shouted out who i shouted out who killed the kennedys when after all it was you and me which is i think like a much better line than i shot i shouted out who killed kennedy um and it's just like it's so memorable but it's like what an insane uh little like historical coincidence. I mean, when I first heard that, to like go and look up like,

wait, can that actually possibly be true? And they were in the studio, you know, the timeline matches up. So yeah, just like a crazy piece of, I mean, everything about the Stones in the late 60s is like totally insane. You know, they were just like making all this incredible music

and also having all this horrible stuff happening around them. But yeah, that's just one. So that's something that I've certainly told that anecdote at gender parties before. So maybe, I don't know, at least a few of your listeners who are interested in the Rolling Stones will find that very morbid piece of historical coincidence interesting. That's a banger. You could even argue there was a bit of luck really. Yeah. Because you don't want to bring out the song and then the kennedy dies a week later after you record yeah no stroke of luck uh yeah for sure um and also if more kennedys die in the future the song's still good to go well they have yeah i know um i i had one question I forgot to ask. Is Bruce Springsteen the Jimmy Buffett of New Jersey?

Is that accurate? Yeah, I'm actually more of like a Springsteen skeptic than a lot of people. I mean, I like some of his music, but I've never been like a Bruce super fan. So I would, yeah, I might like, I would tepidly endorse that take. It's certainly provoking. I like Bruce Springsteen more than Forrest, and I don't like Bruce Springsteen that much. I would tepidly endorse that take. It's certainly provoking. I like Bruce Springsteen more than Forrest,

and I don't like Bruce Springsteen that much. I'm with you. Forrest hates Springsteen. Bruce Springsteen skeptic is going to be my new term. I'm also a Bruce. Put it on your Instagram. Yeah, yeah. I have a conspiracy theory.

He doesn't exist. All right. Well, Jack Hamilton, you can find him on Twitter, Jack underscore Hamilton and his book is Just Around Midnight Rock and Roll and the Racial Imagination

pick that up wherever you buy books at major booksellers thank you Jack Hamilton for being with us thank you Jack it was a pleasure mate if you're ever at a party

and someone comes up to you and goes yeah thanks so much for having me on it was a lot of fun someone comes up to you and goes yeah thanks so much for having me on it was a lot of fun and someone comes up to you guys bruce springsteen he uh he's good go i don't know about that and walk away and then talk to forest you'll get very upset about it good night australia no i'll agree