I Don't Know About That - Scientology

Episode Date: February 7, 2023

Ian Rafalko (@IanRafalko) reveals the secrets of Scientology to the IDKAT team. Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/IDKAT for ad free episodes, bonus episodes, and more exclusive perks! Tiers start at just $2! ADS: ATHLETIC GREENS: If you’re looking for an easier way to take supplements, Athletic Greens Is giving you a FREE 1-year supply of Vitamin D AND 5 free travel packs with your first purchase. Go to athleticgreens.com/IDKAT. That’s athleticgreens.com/IDKAT. Check it out. 

It's hard to know where to start with supplements and who to trust, but AG1 makes it so much easier. AG1 gives you increased energy and mood support. Mood support. And it makes it easy to live your best life. If you're looking for an easy way to take supplements, Athletic Greens is giving you a free... What? There's no such thing as free? A free one-year supply of vitamin D

and five travel packs with your first purchase. Go to athleticgreens.com slash IDKAT, or IDKAT as we used to call it. That's athleticgreens.com slash IDKAT. Check it out. All things comedy. What does that mean? Is it all things, most things, or some things?

You might find out on the... What's the name of the podcast? I don't know about that! With me, Jim Jefferies. Hello, everyone. We're in a new studio right now. All Things Comedy have been so nice to have let us into their studio and let us record here.

Well, we're on their network. We're on their network, but they've also been very, very nice people. We're a big, big fan of the company and thank you for having us. We're officially

on All Things Comedy Network. We're officially on the All Things Comedy Network. A little shout out. Look, I've got lots of gigs coming up. There's only one thing I want you to do.

14th of February, Valentine's Day, Netflix, Jim Jefferies, High and high and dry uh special is coming out and uh watch that i need you to watch it you know because it's important to me because i put a lot of effort and time into this one and it's when you leave the house just turn off your dog or something yeah yeah just turn it off your dog go it's already on the web page right now you can just go and put the reminder on right now put the reminder on right now and then walk out the house and go tell everyone jim jeffries has a new special coming out valentine's day now if you haven't gotten a gift for your wife or girlfriend

i tell you i tell you what they love watching my comedy women love it they fucking love it yeah i've got that i've got some anal jokes in there i've got a joke about dragging my scrotum across my wife's face and hello to my in-laws who listen to this podcast. So, you know, listen to that. And you've spoiled a surprise for them. Well, yeah. There's more to that joke. Yeah, there's more to it.

That's just a little button. A little taste. A little taste or smell, if you will. So February 14th, Netflix. Watch it. February 14th, Netflix. Watch it. February 14th, Netflix. And look, I've got a European tour and an England tour. Got Las Vegas this week.

Las Vegas this week. Actually, Las Vegas this week. Come to Las Vegas this week. The 10th and the 11th at the Mirage. The 10th and the 11th. Super Bowl weekend. My birthday weekend. I'm having a lot of my friends coming out and everything.

I'm going to have a blast. Then the 24th and 25th, you're at Casino and Bensalem, Pennsylvania. They're both selling out already. Don't worry about them. They're all fine. I'm up in Canada. All the tickets are sold for those. England, all the tickets are basically sold.

There's Europe and stuff. If you want to get into the England, the UK shows, they're all almost sold out. We've had to add a show in Manchester. We had to add a show in London at the Apollo. We've had to expand the room in Brighton by twice. Look, I've been to the UK for a long time and I didn't know whether you'd still come back to see me and I am touched.

But more importantly, watch the special and if you're worrying about, if you've got tickets to come and see me and you're going, I don't want to watch the special because you might see some of the same jokes, I've got a new show for you. I'm writing it as we speak. It's good.

All right. Well, yeah, go to jimjeffries.com for that. And with that, let's hear some ads. Our next partner is Athletic Greens. I take AG1 in the morning before I start my day. And it makes me feel and look good and does something good for my body and gives me the nutrition my body craves if you're looking at me right now and you're thinking geez that guy looks not very healthy imagine how unhealthy I'd look without

this it's hard to know where to start with supplements and who to trust but AG1 makes it easy and so much easier than that very quickly I noticed it helped with my sleep and with my energy i came back from two months of a tour and it's hard to get back on a sleep schedule after a big tour like that got on the ag1 sleeping like a baby very quickly i noticed that helped me with my sleep and energy i take it with brunch and different things i mix one scoop scoop in, one powder of water, and then do it twice a day, once a day. But look, look at this. Big gulp. Look at this.

Oh, it is. It's delicious. It is delicious. Wait, wait. You're not supposed to act like that's the first time. No, no, no, no, no. It is delicious. It's like a limey thing.

It's very nice. Yeah, it's good. AT1 is designed with ease in mind so you can live healthier and better without having a lot. It's the healthiest thing you can do under a minute. Name me a thing you can do healthier than this in under a minute. You can't. Don't try. AG1 is powerful because it's so easy to fit into your lifestyle.

It's one scoop of powder mixed with water once a day. AG1 has been part of Millions of Mornings since 2010, a lifetime ago. AG1 gives you increased energy and moon support, making it easy to live your best life. If you're looking for an easy way to take your supplements, Athletic Green is giving you a free one-year supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs with your first purchase. Go to athleticgreens.com slash idacat, I-D-K-A-T. That's athleticgreens.com slash idacat. Check it out.

AG1. All right. Please welcome our guest, Ian Rafalco. Hello, Ian. Now it's time to play. Yes, no, yes, no, yes, no, yes yes no yes no yes no yes no next time forgot about that it's been a while Jack didn't do his job

smash okay here's Ian so okay look at Ian it's very undescript world you look like you're from like an artistic movie with the blurred vision in the back are you a cult leader Ian hmm no

you really Are you a cult leader, Ian? Hmm. No. Wow. No, but I mean. You really honed in. He's not a cult leader, but you're on the right track. Is your topic got something to do with religion? Wow, did you look at my computer? Some people might say. Yeah.

Some people might say. Yeah. Are we going to talk about Scientology? Yes. Wow. Really? That was so impressive. Good work.

How did you know that? First time back in two months. I just feel like that's something we're going to do. We're going to get in trouble. They'll come after us. They're not fun people. I don't know if we're going to get in trouble, but that was pretty quick. That doesn't happen that often.

I really didn't cheat. I don't know how that happened. I built it up like it would be some big secret, but I guess I just give off... We're all just as surprised as you are. You give off some Scientology vibes, brother. Let me introduce Ian. Ian Rafalka was born and raised as a Scientologist.

He spent 23 years in the church attaining the state of clear and was a Scientology staff member... I don't know. No, it's okay. He's over there. Was a Scientology staff member and auditor for three and a half years. After facing constant abuse, he was able to escape

the church and has dedicated himself to educating people through various platforms about the truth behind Scientology and how manipulation harms people, especially of the younger generation. You can find him on IG and Twitter, at Ian Rafalko. That is R-A-F-A-L-K-O. And then

his YouTube channel, Ian Rafalko, you can find him there as well. And why don't you tell us a little bit about your YouTube channel and a little bit about your background too, because I just gave a brief description there. Yeah, I mean, I kind of popped off on TikTok after I outed my pseudo-celebrity father as a Scientologist. He donates like millions of dollars to the cult. So he didn't like that very much. And my whole family sort of cut me off after that. And I spent a lot of time figuring out what I was going to do. And, you know, people like the way I talk about Scientology.

So I went and got a bunch of therapy, which, get that, that's pretty good. And I found my own sort of voice. I do kind of some reactions to Scientologists on my YouTube channel. I did even a TikTok reaction because there are some weird Scientologists on TikTok who spread a lot of bizarre propaganda there. And, you know, I've been getting hate ever since. Not too much to say, really.

It's very brave what you do. I watched that Lisa Remini. Leah Remini. Lisa Remini. Leah Remini. Leah Remini. Yeah, yeah. The people that they go after, and they keep on hunting them and stuff like that,

and defaming them. It's very brave what you do. All right, so Forrest, what have you got for me? Okay, I'm going to ask Jim a series of questions about Scientology, and when I'm done asking him those, he's done answering those. Ian, you're going to grade him on his accuracy, zero through 10, 10 being the best. Kelly's going to grade him on his confidence.

I'm going to grade him on et cetera. We'll add all those scores together. 21 through 30, Dianetics. 11 through 20, Anorexic. Zero through 10, Diuretic. Ah, yes. He's familiar with that one. I will say this.

I've lived in Hollywood now for 15 years or thereabouts and I've done acting jobs and I've been on television and stuff like that not once have they approached me every time I meet Scientologists on set and I think just hand me a flyer

I just want to have the option you know what I mean just hit on me you would blow the whole thing up in a day. Nah, they don't want me. They don't want you. They don't want me. He talks too much.

They don't want me. And I don't think Scientology is any more stupid than the other religions. I'm anti all religion. I've been very vocal about this over the years. And so I don't judge Scientologists as much as I judge any other religious person. I think you're all fools. But thanks for listening. All right.

Who founded Scientology? L. Ron Hubbard. Swish. Give me a point. How did L. Ron Hubbard come up with the idea to start Scientology? L. Ron Hubbard, if I'm correct, was a science fiction novelist, and he was quoted as saying something along the lines of, if you want to get rich start

a religion um and there's a lot because i know the scientologist fought for a very long time to get the tax-free status and all that type of stuff um so i reckon how did he start it i reckon he wrote one of his books and then he just sort of went and that's real so my all religion starts so i wrote a book and that was a bit of science fiction and went, and it's real. He's like, that was a really good one. That was my best one. That one's real.

What are the basic beliefs of Scientology? Always be prepared. Yeah. That's wild. No, there's something about, geez, what is their beliefs? I've never known that. They believe in spaceships. There's going to be a spaceship that's going to take us off. There's Thet... Jeez, what is their beliefs? I've never known that. They believe in spaceships.

There's going to be a spaceship that's going to take us off. There's Thetans and stuff. There's some aliens that have taken over our bodies, right? They help us out a bit. And there's something about science. And you've got to hold these metal rods in your hand that look like a couple of vibrators with cords on them. And then you've got to tell things. And the little thing goes like this and they go.

Yeah, we'll get that. What are the beliefs? That's all you got for the beliefs? Look, I'm sure their beliefs are probably, like all religion, pretty sound. You know, they're probably the Ten Commandment type of things. They're probably like, don't hurt people. Try to be nice. Tom Cruise movies rocks.

Okay. Is Scientology a religion? Yes. Okay. Where is Scientology a religion yes okay where is Scientology based well the big celebrity centers here in LA but there is a big one in Florida I want to say I some but fuck town where you're from it's um like from Miami yeah it's like it's like Tampa or something it's like it want to say it's like Tampa or something. It's like Tampa or somewhere around there.

It's close, yeah. One of those ones. How many countries will you find Scientology in? All of them. All of them. All of them. I tell you what, I once went for a Scientology test in Perth, Australia. And so when they get to Perth, that's the most isolated city on earth.

They've really gone for it. So I think pretty much all of them. I don't imagine they've cracked Israel. I reckon they haven't cracked Israel. Israel, they've probably gone in there. Got enough religions there. Yeah, they're like, oh, geez, the marketplace is pretty full. So probably not Israel, probably not Saudi Arabia.

I reckon the Muslims have pushed them out too much. They haven't put a free market. How many Scientologists are there? In the world, I reckon we're looking at 20 million. 20 million. Yeah, a little bit less than the population of Australia, I reckon, Scientologists. Are there fees, costs associated with Scientology? Yeah, well, you have to pay for the book. You've got to buy the books. You've got to keep buying

the books, and then you've got to go for the sessions. And if you want to get higher up in the ranks, right, if you want to get clearer and all this type of stuff and go through all the different ranks, then you have to do courses. So there are fees, but they're not fees in the way that, well, you can donate money. You can just give money.

Then the church would probably ask for you to give money. But it's not a fee. It's a course to help you out forest sure so you know you're paying for a service do you know what the international association of scientologists is or the ias international association of scientologists um well that's that's like the the headmasters they're like the big ones it's like that guy who they can't find his wife she's gone okay what does going clear mean going clear means that you're reaching a high level status of your

you know it's i don't know if there's an outfit involved but i feel like there's definitely there'd be a hat definitely you get a hat and the hat say, I'm clear. I think that's what you get at the airport. Yeah. I have clear. It's like $100 a year. It's pretty good. It gets you on the plane quicker. America only joke, by the way.

But yes, I can. What is a thetan? The thetans are the aliens that came down, and they took over people's bodies and stuff like that. I think they're good. I don't think they're villains. I know nothing. I think the Thetans are on our side. If you're a Scientologist, you go,

oh yeah, I fucking spoke to a Thetan the other day. But that must have been fun. Yeah, it was real good. What is auditing? Auditing is where you hold the two vibrators and then they record you saying all your worst things. Do you know what that machine's called? I don't know what the name of the machine is.

I've seen documentaries. The next question is, what does an e-meter do? That's the e-meter, right? So you sit there and they go, have you ever had, say, homosexual thoughts or something like that? And you're a movie star, and maybe your name is John Palolta, right? And then he goes, oh, yeah, about a couple. And then they go, oh, we recorded that.

Recorded that in case you ever want to do something wrong. Got that. You know what I mean? This is your interpretation? Yeah, that's what happens. I don't say that to you. That's where they collect blackmail is what you're saying. Yeah, I think there's a little bit of blackmail going on.

Well, in the documentaries I've seen, it says, so you tell them all your dark, I'm sure there's something good about it. You say all your fears and which is basically like therapy, right? You say, I'm worried about this. I have a problem with this. I think about this all the time or whatever. And then, you know, it clears your mind because a problem shared is a problem halved.

Okay. What is the free wins? Like it's the name of something. Oh, that's the oh that's the that's the song they sing when someone dies free wind okay blowing in the sky like that it's like free bird but it's the scientology version okay the solo's 20 minutes long yeah yeah our guitar solo at the fucking wazoo i bet you that have some good guitar players i just learned lisa maria presley was one just watching the documentary And Priscilla Presley was a Scientologist

when Elvis died. What? I didn't know that. That was in the 70s. I think Seinfeld was in it for a bit. No, I'm trying to go clear. What's the deal with Thetans? What is the, quote,

the bridge to total freedom? The bridge to total freedom. Yeah. That's a tricky one. Always telling the truth. Okay. That's a tricky one. Always telling the truth. Okay. What does... It's a good way to live your life.

What does space opera mean in reference to Scientology? And who is Xenu? Xenu is the guy that lives on the planet. The guy? I thought Xenu... X-E-N-U, I think it's Xenu. X-E-N-U. I thought Xenu was where the mothership was going to take them to.

I know nothing. I really don't. Okay, so Xenu is their utopia where they're all going to go to once we're all passed over. In the space opera? In the space opera. It's getting on the plane

and they all go off into space and they all type of, they go off and do that. It's no more ridiculous than all the other rubbish. It's all the same crap why did they reject psychiatry they don't for some reason they get very angry at antidepressants because i think it goes against their e-meter system where they don't need if people get happy off drugs that works against them they're like we can't control people who are happy we need people who are we need people

who are in despair so a lot of the religions about and all religions sort of do this a little bit and definitely cults do this is like hey so when i went in i did a test in perth and they said what color is this and i went oh it's blue what number is this oh that's the number 10 or whatever a few questions at the end a guy looked at it and he went huh and then he got another person to check my chart they were like this i can't be another person they all looked at it and he went, huh. And then he got another person to check my chart. And they were like this, I can't be. And another person, they all looked at it. This is craziness. And I'm sitting there like this.

You did it. And then they come in and they go, you might be one of the smartest people that has ever lived. And I'm like, me? And they go, yes, you. And they go, yes, you might be one of the smartest people that has ever lived. And I'm like, me? And they go, yes, you. And they go, yes, you might be one of the smartest people that ever lived, but your genius is untapped. And I went, I knew it. I knew it was untapped genius.

Did you bring your checkbook? My mother was right. But with Scientology, we can release all the badness or whatever and make you into it. Now, mind you, this was 28 years ago. So they might have changed their policies a bit. But back then in Perth, it was just a bloke. It was just a bloke in a room with a picture of L. Ron Hubbard behind him,

just like, my name's Dave, and I'm going to do a personality test. Who are, quote, suppressive persons? Suppressive persons are people like me and you who speak out against the religion, even though you don't know anything about it. I don't speak, or Ian? Ian, oh, Ian's a suppressive all fucking day. So, so suppressives,

they talk out against the religion and then they, ironically, try to suppress these people, those people's free speech. They try to suppress the suppressors. Yeah, they try to suppress the suppressors, man. Couple more questions. What was Operation Snow White?

Operation Snow White. If you don't know that, Operation Freakout. No, no. Operation Snow White was they had six dwarf members and they needed a seventh. And they tried to get Brad Williams

and he was like, I don't know, man. Maybe he is. We're going to see him next week. I'm going to see him next week. I'm going to see him next week. I'll ask Brad if he's part of Operation Snow White. What about Operation Freakout? Do you know what that is?

Operation Freakout, I don't know what that is, no. Okay. Okay, so those are criminal activity things, but we'll find out about them. What criminal activity has Scientology been associated with that you know about or any controversies? There has been kidnapping and torturing accusations where people haven't been allowed to leave buildings and stuff like that and they have been demeaned. And then you can be like on this boat. I remember the documentary

there's a boat and if you get to work on the boat and they all dress like they're all like sailors and all this type of stuff and those people were pretty badly abused. And David McSavage, he has been accused of killing his wife. And no one has seen her for, like, years. And he's like, don't worry about her. They're like, where is she, David? And he's like, doesn't matter. Like, he's not even – that one's checking, man.

You were really close on his last name, but you said McSavage, which is so much better than his actual last name. No, McSavage – well, I changed the name so I don't get in trouble but Mick Savage is also the McDonald's burger that has a bit of chili on it limited Ian Raffalco how did Jim do in his knowledge of Scientology zero to ten tens the best Oh prop I'd say probably like a like a two and a half to three all right i mean you to me it's almost a textbook uh victim of scientology propaganda you you you basically you might as well work there all right good you know genius well i am and i'm tech genius that's what happens

yeah that's all the things that they tell people i mean more or less you also had a heaven's gate comparison in there somewhere uh with the mothership and all that. You don't have a mothership? That was the only reason I was considering the religion. I can tell you saw the South Park episode probably a week after it came out, not a single day after. I don't really watch South Park. I did watch the Lisa Remini. Leah.

I watched her. No, Lisa. And I watched that Tom Cruise thing where they go ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. He goes, when you're a Scientologist, you have to da, da, da. And if you see something, and then he goes, ah, ah, like that. I've seen that. That's just for fun, though. And then he gets given like a phony baloney medal.

Like, here, you've won the best guy ever medal. And he's like, boom. And everyone stood up. And then he salutes McSavage. McSavage. Kelly, how do you do on confidence? Confidence started, I mean, I graded him after the first question. L. Ron Hubbard swish.

It was a 10. 10. I graded him after first question L. Ron Hubbard swish it was a 10 10 I also I also watched that documentary that the guy

who undercovers things the British guy my Scientology movie oh the guy that had the the Louis Louis Vuitton Louis Thoreau Louis Thoreau

thank you yeah the Louis Thoreau one where they've got actors like you audition a whole lot of actors to be Scientologists I thought that one was pretty cool. All right, let's say you're at 12 and a half. You're not going to be anorexic.

I watched all of these high. So, et cetera, minus five. Yeah, and in the background, it seems. Backgrounds with a chili dog, you know, on your lap and you're, you know, it's kind of, you know, the AC's blown, so you kind of just hear in the jizz. Yeah, et cetera, minus five, you're diuretic.

Okay, who founded Scientology? L. Ron Hubbard, did he swish that one? So you're kind of just here in the jizz. Yeah. Et cetera, minus five, you're diuretic. Okay. Who founded Scientology? L. Ron Hubbard. Did he swish that one? He got that one. Yeah, that was a swish. That was a slam dunk. And how did he come up with the idea?

He said he wrote a novel that he had to quote if he wanted to get rich. Why don't you tell us? Yeah. How did he come up with the idea? Yeah, well, I mean, he was a science fiction writer and uh he tried to uh he hung out with uh this guy named alistair crowley who was like a satanist and uh he he had a lot of uh sort of uh you know narcissistic uh behaviors that it kind of led him to uh realize that oh well maybe if i you know i know everything there is to know about the mind, so maybe I'll just make a science. And he tried to just make his own science and he found out there was more money in religion.

So, I mean, that's the short, that's the short and skinny of it. He basically tried to make a science-based religion without actually having any scientific background. Do you think he believed in it himself? Like, was his ego so big that when he came up with this, he was like, fucking hell, why didn't anyone else come up with this? I'm so right. To some degree, but there's a lot of, like, the claims to evidence ratio is like 50,000 to one. So, you know, he sort of claimed to have this greater knowledge. You know, he also claimed that he was the Antichrist and that he was a Buddha in his past life and that he was, you know, some mystical being that came here to to Earth to spread this one true knowledge.

There's there's a lot of it gets crazy. The lore is like set in a progressive. I call it the lore. I mean, it's just basically what they believe from their perspective but um uh yeah so he just kind of realized that it would be it would be a lot more beneficial financially for him to just start a religion so that's what he did now when he first started it oh this is the next question isn't it like when he first started how many how many disciples did he have how quickly did it build yeah you couldn't i mean we can go out of order like you can say how many when it started and what how many are there now yeah oh well yeah so when it started there was just small so he started a 1950 released a book called dianetics which is

the one a lot of people know about and uh uh it was uh it was claimed to be a new science of the mind, a modern science of mental health. And he submitted it to the American Medical Association and the APA. And they basically laughed at it because there was so little evidence that it was, you know, they were like, we really can't do anything with this. And so he was like, well, fuck you. I'm the smartest man that there is fuck you you're all commie bastards who are trying to take us down and you're trying to suffocate us so like within two years of writing dianetics he was already founding scientology uh but uh now you know they the church i like to tell you that it has 11 000 churches in 165 countries or so. But they make it very hard to prove that information.

And the real numbers have been run in present day. And it's probably somewhere around 1,500 churches and missions. Probably still in just as many countries. But I'd say there's only about, from sort of collaborated census data, there's only about like 25,000 to 30,000 Scientologists in the world. Don't they like buy up a lot of buildings and market them as Scientology buildings, but they're pretty much empty? Hold on a second. Sorry, hang on. So how many, how many OLAP did you just say?

30, yeah. You said 20 million. Max 30K. 30,000. I mean, yeah, you knew about you. It was funny because when I first left, I had the same perspective because they give you these big animations with all these numbers and all these statistics going up. And they talk about, oh, well, we've reached 10 million people this year with Dianetics and Scientology. But it's really just David Miscavige blowing smoke up their ass.

Now, with lots of religions, and so are you, how do I say this? Can you fuck outside the religion? Are you allowed to marry outside the religion? Or is it like, there's a lot of like judaism they always try to keep it yeah you know or convert you yeah or convert you and try to keep you into it there's only 13 000 people 30 000 so my question is there must be shit loads of inbreeding in scientology you can't so there's two there's sort of two uh there's there's two kind of uh i guess you could say uh uh levels to scientologists now you have uh you know there's uh c-org members which are the people who sign the billion-year

contract and they kind of devote their existence to scientology and they're they're sort of involved in uh sort of the the management aspect um and they essentially become property of the church you know they don't pay bills they they get fed every like they get moved around they can just send you wherever you go they are not allowed to marry people who are date uh who are not people who are not scientologists you actually have to like physically write clerical requests uh if you want to uh engage another c-orgg member romantically. There's a lot of nuance there. But you can, underneath that, like if you don't sign the contract, you know, you can

date and marry whoever you want as long as they're not critical of Scientology. Oh, okay. Yeah, but that's going to be, you know, you just had sex with someone and you're like, hey, by the way, I'm a Scientologist. Yeah, I got to check on something in my car. A lot of one-night stands in Scientology. But also a billion-year contract. Make it $10 billion.

Yeah, fuck it. Who cares? Why isn't it forever? Infinity. Infinity contract. What's cute about it is because they believe in past lives is that when you die you get a 21 year leave of absence

before you're requested to come back in your next life to rejoin Sea Org so it's pretty generous honestly that's like your gap years you just die of old age yeah and like Kelly was saying there's a lot of property that's owned it seems like in LA at least there's a lot of property that's owned, right?

I mean, it seems like in LA at least, there's like a lot of property. They buy up a lot of buildings and a lot of buildings are empty. That's what I saw in some documentary, but I'm wrong about everything. I feel like there's like 10 just in Hollywood. All under different names.

My last apartment had a view of a Scientology building from my balcony. Yeah. I've met plenty of Scientologists. You met them all. I met a lot of them, right? And they're always very nice, decent people. They've never tried to recruit me, as I've mentioned,

but I've never had a run-in with one. I think with any type of religion or cult like this, though, the general population of the religion or cult are normal, hardworking, nice people. It's the people in charge that are exploiting that. When you go when you go to church is there songs it always feels like religion has songs do you get do you get and and are there black and white churches where the music's a little bit better

a black Scientology church where there's more tambourine and more clapping yeah right and then the white ones a little bit of rhythm give me L, give me a Ron, give me a Hubbard. Sadly, there is music. And I say sadly because it is all atrocious. They're actually, it's, you have to have a lot of money to sort of constantly participate in Scientology. So you really only see like you know people who hang around because they've you know they're doing courses like they're

very bizarre people when you're actually like meeting them day to day that the reason you're probably not recruited is because they don't look at people who are generally humorous as beneficial to Scientology. If you, there's actually a policy called jokers and degraders. And it said that if you, if you tend to make jokes about things, it's because you don't really understand the importance or you don't really, you're bound to make trouble. That's why they haven't asked. They're going to degrade the value. That's a good name for a podcast, that, jokers and degraders.

And so that's why they haven't asked. And gonna degrade the value podcast that jokers and degraders and so that's why that's why they haven't asked and so are there any comedians i don't know if there has been a stand-up comedian who's been one not funny ones no i can't think of any you said seinfeld you said seinfeld i don't know i read on the internet i think it was information i don't think it was like grateful dead we're in it very briefly too but it's just the beginning because the whole band some of them because like apparently the beginning of Scientology just like basic self-help stuff and I was they were doing it back when it was like in its infancy now obviously you know what it is but you've got enough musicians the song should be better you know back they should be yeah they got your right back should write it back alone Just do all their music. Yeah. What are the basic beliefs of Scientology? Jim was in trouble with that.

Well, the basic beliefs of Scientology is that you are a spiritual being called a thetan. So the thetan is you as a being without your body or without your mind. You're just like an unmeasurable perspective so to speak just kind of like a entity of of of no mass and no wavelength um and that you are an immortal being who's lived millions of lives and that uh you know there are certain aspects to existence that um you know in the in the in the beginning uh you know it does kind of seem like more basic self-help or like uh that a lot of the non-confidential aspects uh do seem very you know similar to other religions but um uh the those are the basic beliefs you know there's there's

different uh i guess you could say tool structures for for understanding like there's a lot of redefining of words so that you can fit these sort of tools like something called the ARC triangle, which is something to allow communication training that you can do. There's a lot of sort of, you know, initial steps forward to, like, make you think more of others. But it becomes sort of muddied as you go along. And they're a very private group like once you start to believe that scientology is like um the the which is what they want is they want you to believe that scientology is like the the most ethical religion in the world and so anyone who's trying to um make fun of it or challenge it. They are engaging in some like dangerous, evil, malicious activity. And they're paid by, you know, big pharma and, you know, everyone's paid.

Apparently there's some massive money line to like make fun of Scientology. It's just like a very, it's like a narcissist factory. Hillary Clinton pays me for years to talk out against trump that was a big move and i've opened up about it and people don't believe me but there was checks all the time they wouldn't stop coming he's extremely well how did how did uh how did how was the world created because the religion i grew up with there was a bloke on a cloud who did it in six days and then had a bit of a rest. And the first day he just made things and the second day he made some animals. How was the world created?

Well, so you get into, it's a bit of a loaded question, but the short and skinny of it is trillions of years ago, we were all, you know, Phaetons who didn't have bodies and we were out there creating things, you know, whatever we want. We were morphing planets with our hands and you know colliding things to make stars and you know uh uh you know people then you know beings then uh uh confused other beings and these confusions turn to uh what are

called overts which are transgressions that accumulate mass that you know solidify you and then soon you need soon you forget that you're a spiritual being and then you need you know matter and energy and space and time to make sense of things it's like a very

grandiose seems like all religion tries to infuse you so we were molding things with our hands and then there was grandiose you know things so they just say we were molding things with our hands is L. Ron Hubbard is he God or is he a prophet

he's more so like a prophet you could say he's like he was he has had this knowledge for his many lifetimes or something and he has some but there is no God in Scientology so there's no one above L. Ron H has had this knowledge for his many lifetimes or something, and he has some... But there is no god in Scientology.

So there's no one above L. Ron H.? No. Were his sci-fi books any good? Not Battlefield Earth, if the movie was anything to go by. If the movie was anything to go by, that was a weak-ass film. But I'll be honest with you, Jack, I haven't read a book. Not a single one. And Scientology, I haven't read a book. Not a single one. And Scientology, you say it is a religion.

Jim said it's a religion, yes, or not a cult. Legally. It's legally a religion. I mean, you can't legally classify a cult really these days. You can really just say something is a religion or colloquially a cult. Yeah, a cult, the difference between religious and cult is just time, right? Yeah, that's what you said on this podcast. I'm a podcast.

I can say it as much as I want. Yeah, there's a measure of where it passes over into the cult territory is there's a measure of coercive control and deprivation of certain freedoms that creates this sort of uh cycle there's like a there's like a self-sealing cycle of of of self-control uh where you you know kind of report yourself and that you report others and you there there are reasons that you would have there are special scientology reasons that you have negative thoughts period as well as negative thoughts against scientology so these are all kind of create this like like inner uh cycling loop of control especially because scientology thinks of itself as like such a important thing they they're allowed to lie as long as it's on behalf

of scientology now as long as it protects about abortion what things yeah what things what things are banned in your religion like and not i know you're not still in religion, but so Muslims, Jews, no pork. No, I was talking abortion, marriage. Yeah, let's start with pork. These are classic religion ones. You can eat pork. Pork is good. You can eat pork.

Pork's solid. Can I watch porn? No. How are they going to expand this religion? They haven't really i guess it it's it's it really depends on who you ask because uh as an auditor i was uh i did a lot of those um you know interrogations or sec checks that security checks you know where you where you put somebody on the e-meter and you hand them the cams you know um they're like aluminum uh aluminum or not aluminum but they're these

electrodes basically we'll get to that question but it's homosexuality no uh not in not in a not in a lore perspective like they are being inclusive to kind of let anybody join in but it is eventually expected that you uh uh cleanse your yourself of the aberration or irregularity that is homosexual thoughts? What about abortion? Where does that go? It's funny, L. Ron Hubbard actually... As far as the Scientologist chick that he's been fucking. Important question.

If they only have 30,000 members, you think they're going to let you kill off the next one? I guess not. That's a good point. It's crazy, because l ron hubbard actually said that uh you know women who get abortions are you know you know up there with uh perverts and and scandalous drug addicts and like you know demented people but l run but when you're in the sea orc you're so they want you to be so committed they don't allow you to have children

anymore they used to and they used to raise these children. But so they used to have this, something called the cadet org, which is where all these, there was one, there was like one guy to 40 kids and you know, they would just raise them in the Sea Org and they were just born Sea Org members.

And I've, I've known many people who grew up in that, but they don't do that anymore because there's, you know, it's a lot of fucking work, I guess, and a lot of legal issues. And there was a lot of sexual abuse that they couldn't really account for. So did L. Ron have it? Because every cult leader or religious leader, there's always a documentary and there's always a lot of girls involved.

Did he sleep around? Did L. Ron have a group of women? Was that his jam? I don't think he had a harem, like a Keith Raniere-type harem of women. That's because he didn't play volleyball. Yeah. God. Thankfully, they want you to sleep.

There's not too much sleep deprivation when you're not in the Sea Org, so I didn't have to do 4 a.m. volleyball sessions. What are you talking about, NXIVM? Yeah, NXIVM. So Keith Raniere was the leader of NXIVM. I know Keith Raniere. Yeah, and so he had a little volleyball league. He seemed very confused.

But there were some women who came out when he was on the Apollo, which is the first ship that he got on to L. Ron Hubbard to sort of escape the law in several different countries. That's when he founded this organization and he just brought on a bunch of teenagers and people who had been with him for a while. And there were some women who came out and they said said, you know, he had done some naughty naughty. But that was a long time ago. They were able to crush those people legally. What year did he die? 1986.

That's when he actually, his body left. 21 years. So 1986. That's when I was born, so. Scientology. I could be him. You might be L. Ron Hubbard in a new body. Was he buried or was he...

Was he ashes thrown up into the sky or something? What happened to the corpse? That's a little iffy. There were autopsy... There was kind of a battle back and forth between who got the body, but the autopsy reports were pretty crazy.

They said he had hydrazine in his, which is jet fuel, like rocket fuel. So he was, he actually died. He, when he, at the end of his life, he was so terrified and paranoid of the law, you know, because he had been evading all these different allegations from many different countries. He just got in an RV and went out to the middle of nowhere and just started doing a bunch of drugs and died with his hair long and his nails long. Oh, he Howard Hughes'd the end, did he? Oh, that's cool.

I got more respect for him now. Because I know that's how I'll end up. So I understand this guy. Scientology, we skipped this one, was based, Jim said somewhere in Floridaida but i believe you will you it's clearwater yeah so it has a it has a couple different management uh buildings all over the world but mainly it's wherever david miscavige is and uh david miscavige has a there's a uh in hemet california there's a kind of a compound called Gold Base.

And that's where that's one of the main places that he it's where they film a lot of the Scientology propaganda. There's like a big studio there. And then behind the studio, you know, he has like a several million dollar office and house and a bunch of cars. And then the Florida one is called Flag. And then the Florida one is called Flag, and it's like a $430 million building in the middle of Clearwater, Florida, which is close to Tampa. You were close. And that's where you were, right?

That's where I trained, yeah, for a while. Okay, so who's the most famous ones now? Because we've got Tom Cruise, John Travolta, and Beck. Wasn't Will Smith in it? But there was like a whole lot of people. Kirstie Alley was. Danny Masterson. Danny Masterson. He must be on the outs.

Yeah, I would assume so. He must be on the outs. Yeah, he's, well, on his way, yeah. He didn't even make it to that 90s show. If you watch that 90s show, he's the only one who doesn't come back. Well, yeah, some things happened. Yeah, Kirstie Alley died, but she hadn't been dead. She seemed like a nice lady.

Okay, so David McSavage, and that's what I call him, right? Yeah. Was he, because I always am fascinated because, look, I can talk to a room full of people and make them all laugh or make them, you know, I can control a room of people to a small extent, right? I'm always fascinated by people who can control people all day every day i feel like 24 hours a day and in large groups i could never do that have you met mick savage and was he was he a cool guy like is he charming no i haven't

personally met him i've i've seen him and i know a lot of people who have met him and and and the attitude when you are uh working for scientology is very like uh i guess you would say on purpose is is what they would how they would describe it you're you're not there is no downtime right if you're sleeping you're sleeping it's at it's after your post and uh when you're awake and it's post time, you're on post. You're not doing anything else. You do not question orders. You do. You're not. It's a very strict thing. I mean, he's he's known to be a very aggressive, you know, screaming, yelling, swearing.

But when he but he practices these speeches that he does for the public in these public events, you know, for like weeks beforehand. in these public events uh you know for like weeks beforehand so you know when he can use uh there's so much sort of internal paranoia in like in the lore of scientology and who our enemies are and and and like you know the fact that scientology is shrinking is which it is is is like to them this kind of battle they're losing because they aren't doing enough or uh they haven't um found the right suppressive who's hiding amongst the ranks and so he you know he's he's a very uh spiteful person i've heard stories where he'll just like cold clock you know people working beneath him because they you know you can jump ahead to that too suppressive persons and stuff you can jump ahead to suppress a person

and stuff you can talk about that like what that is yeah okay yeah so you said it was shrink sorry just quick you said it was shrinking right i didn't know it was actually shrinking and and is all these documentaries and what we're doing right now is this the reason it's shrinking or is it just because religious religion in general or a little bit of both i mean it's it it's it's like the the more public uh the the the more minute details that scientology doesn't tell you the more public that becomes like in the in the age of the internet and you know people who just they're very good at they're very important there's a very important emphasis on um like how to deal with people who are critical of scientology and how to stop people who are leaving scientology from talking about it

and uh you know more of those people are coming out and talking about it and you know more people are leaving and saying hey well you know this happened to me and then scientology will say oh well this person just disgruntled or you know and then they'll the they have you know this happened to me and then scientology will say oh well this person just disgruntled or you know and then they'll the they have you know like kelly was saying like blackmail like they have you do a lot of uh the auditing or counseling and and you do talk about these sort of minute you're encouraged to to be a completely open book so everything you use and everything you say can and will be used against you uh to some degree if if they think it's valuable strategically um to sort of shame you

down into the dirt so this reputation scientology has of being very malicious and harassing people and and going after individuals in companies as opposed to like companies as a whole you know that's why a lot of people just don't they're afraid they think that Scientology is gonna you know come knocking on their door when they really haven't like successfully sued anyone in over 20 years so like it's should we be worried talking about it you shouldn't be worried I think I think you'll be fine you know like you said it didn't seem like they wanted you very much. There's a couple of social media... I don't want jokers and...

Is there anything about... I'm sure you miss many members of your family who you haven't spoken to since you've left the church, and I don't know about that, but is there anything that you miss about the religion where you go,

fucking Taco Tuesdays, man. It was the best. Every Christmas, that you miss about the religion where you go fucking taco tuesdays man it was the best every uh every christmas uh at least when i was on staff i mean staff was awful uh but uh there's a there's a there's something called the beer and cheese party where uh it's like a uh it's one day uh of the year where because there's no like real too much celebrated holidays. Like they close when they know no one is coming in under any circumstances, which is almost never. It was during around COVID they started to do that. But like they're open during Christmas and everything.

So but the beer and cheese party is one day a year near Christmas. Management will send you some cheese and they'll send you a check and say, go to the place and pick up some alcohol and just get fucked up and eat some cheese and karaoke. You know that show Severance? They have that thing where they have that one party for them? Yeah, yeah. They get some melon.

Yeah, some melon. That's pretty alright. I mean, most of my better memories are, I guess, you know, little moments i had with friends of mine who were in the church who you know you know we were kind of it was in defiance or it was like uh you know i was able to win certain arguments against um uh the sort of justice arm uh which are just i mean there's there's a lot of post titles and and different people who enforce their ethics and justice system and you know I can't really say

I miss any of it as like as someone who is as involved as I was. But at the time, you know, there were parts that I did enjoy, you know, knowing that I had, you know, some sort of status, you know, being a trained auditor was like a big thing. So, you know, it wasn't even until then that my parents even supported any of my goals. But... Well, at the time, too, that's the only life that you knew. So, you know, it's hard to compare to what it could have been. Speaking of when you

left, how old were you when you left? How long were you thinking about it? And, like, what was the final straw? And one thing, was there times just before you left where you had a mate where you just talked to him or her every now and again and went, this all sounds like bullshit? So, it's actually an interesting story. I was married to a girl from the church.

She's actually from Perth. She's Australian. Wow. Sand roper. So we met when we were both training to be auditors. So we met when we were both training to be auditors. And towards the end, I had this situation happen where I was going to do one of these very secret auditing things called the superpower rundown. And it's like it's this whole big thing. A very expensive Scientology thing.

It was very important in Scientology. It's like a bunch of auditing and then you go upstairs to the uh in that building in clearwater and there's like these like this gyroscope this like uh you're you're you're training your senses and there's like a lot of um it's almost too much to explain but uh it's just a very important thing that they do in Scientology. And I mentioned that I had this big, I was in session one day and I had this realization. I was like, I actually don't think I want to be on staff my whole life. I think I want to pursue my dream of being a writer and making movies and doing this, directing, acting, all these things that I wanted to do. And she smiled and she just kind of picked up a red pen and she just circled that in red when she wrote down what I said,

which is something that means like, we're going to look at this later. We're going to send this up. This is your wife? No, they sent it to the management at Flag. That's Mick Savage. Really? So your wife don't do in she was made aware but uh she didn't fight them on anything you know we talk i was actually subsequent to that i was told i wasn't allowed to leave flag uh um at all until they figured out

where to put me um because they were terrified i don't know what they were worried about but they just didn't know what to do with me there was a like it's very disorganized for how organized they say they are there's just so much uh like random ambiguity as to like what policies to follow because you know uh they're busy with the gyroscope i'm gonna figure out how to calibrate just put me up there and spun me a bit, you know. It's like one of those robotic gyroscopes. I always thought they wanted movie stars. Why wouldn't they encourage you to... They want you to be in movies? I don't think they want

you to make movies. I don't know. Right. They want me to be famous entering Scientology. Like, if I became famous overnight, then that'd be fine, but I wanted to not be on staff and start writing sort of ground roots-esque. I didn't have too many prospects.

I knew Tom Cruise's sister, but that was about it. And you're not allowed to talk to her about that kind of stuff when you're in there. So I was just planning on, you know, I'm just going to start writing stuff and see where that takes me. But I was there for five months because that wasn't where I lived. I was staying in a hotel in the in the hotel connected to the flag building uh for five months i was not to leave i was like used for my labor and i was used uh you know i was like in this limbo basically and after i uh i had had some very uh i had some

self-harm thoughts towards the end and they were like oh well you should have said that because now you have to leave now we can't have you on the property and i was like oh okay and so two hours later i was uh kicked out of the hotel because it's a legal liability and uh i was sent i stayed with a friend and uh when i was there i found out that my wife had called my parents and told them all these personal thoughts that i had been having and basically dumped all my secrets to my family and then they told the church right away uh that there was all this uh all these secret things and and it's kind of like you just don't know who to trust and it's all there's a lot of snitching culture but um eventually i uh i was just like i gotta get the

fuck out of here so i just need to take a break from scientology it was my initial thought i was like i just need a break i'm not gonna do anything a few months later i i went back to live with my parents because this was the beginning of COVID, like real early, like just before COVID had started. And I didn't have a place to live anymore because while I was at Flag, the Scientologists I was living with gave up my room that I was paying for. So I had to go collect my stuff, go live with my parents for a little bit. And then I went. I i was like i just need a break so i went to perth for a month uh and uh you know that was first time out of the country really i it's kind of like it's kind of like florida without with less of an ego oh perth's

you know and everyone talks funny quokkas you gookkas? You can see a quokka? You go to Rottnest Island and see yourself a quokka? It's a fucking bag of... That was a quarantine zone at the time. They didn't let us see the quokkas. Did you go to the Carrying Up Shopping Center? It's the best one in the country. We went to the Spuds. What's at Spuds? We went to that one place, that potato guy.

I don't know about that. The grocery store. uh that that potato guy i don't know the grocery store but i mean it was did you did was it hard for you to make friends because that must have been a horrible time because it's the middle of covid your whole community's been scientology people now your family's not really talking to you now you're living in perth what that must have been extraordinarily lonely what did you do yeah well i i just um the the idea that i would take a break people were very cautious around me once i said that my family you know everyone was kind of just like watching me but giving me some distance but still kind of paying attention and um

uh my wife was very uh uh sort of i realized later that she kind of just um she was more into the idea of being married and i think she was in being married to me and and like having sort of like the fantasy of having everything inside you know uh you know all my scientologist dreams are coming true you know kind of kind of thing but uh she uh didn't really give as much of a shit as i thought she did or as she said so i was sort of i was very isolated i've been pretty isolated uh for a lot of my life but you know most of my dearest friends aren't even scientologists you know especially from when i was in you know there were just people who were okay with you know they knew i was in a cult but they weren't going to say anything about it. They were just like, they were supportive of me.

And even when I left, they were supportive of me. But like, even when I left, there were kids who I went trick or treating with, who were like Scientologists. And they were like messaging people on my friends lists that I'm like some awful guy and they should block me right away. And, you know, don't talk to him anymore you know he's an awful guy so it is very isolating but uh it's it's also um you expect that you know so that that kind of ruminating i'm going to take a break evolved into well you know what more this sounds familiar to other people who i assumed before were were lying about

scientology this is kind of like the same shit so what more are they lying about and you kind of start to do a little bit more research and uh you know i found a an interview with l run hubbard that i didn't even know existed that the scientology completely lied about and it was just so there i didn't know why that kind of small thing would have been important to lie about. And it got me thinking and sort of evolved. And while I was in Perth, I was only there for about a month and a half. But, you know, when I was there, I was watching. And my wife, you know, she was also on staff. She was talking about a lot of contradictions in what management was saying. And, you know, she was also on staff. She was talking about a lot of contradictions in what management was saying.

And, you know, they were saying, oh, Perth Org has 10 times, the org is like the building, the individual church. It's org is short for organization. You know, Perth Org has 10 times the statistics, you know, 10 times course hours and auditing hours. And she's like, but that's not even true. So I don't know where they're getting that information and so that all these things kind of stuck with me and kept with me and evolved into me not wanting to have anything to do with Scientology but then I had the option of just shutting up for the rest of my life and still having this family who doesn't like me,

or I could say something about it. You've got to live the truth. So I made a choice. Would you consider yourself now to be an atheist, an agnostic, or another religion? It's probably more so agnostic. I don't look for the answers you know as as as much anymore i i i like to theorize and uh you know i have certain concepts that i that i like more than others but

you know the universe is just too big to to have such like solid to put myself in solid states of declarative existence you know like in Scientology everything is very black and white you know you are in this condition until you yeah you know move up to some next condition or further state of being and you can be moved you know into what are called lower conditions like you know you can be assigned treason overnight. I'm getting a bit of an echo. No, that's okay. It sounds good in our end.

Yeah. Okay, cool. I have some questions here that we asked. So the money, how does – I know it seems like there's a lot of property Scientology owns and stuff. If you're there, you get Scientology bucks. They're like regular bucks. What are like fees and costs

associated with it that Jim said you gotta buy the books and things like that and then what is the IAS I know that you mentioned that to us that this is something yeah go ahead so yeah so the as far as the fees go the courses the lower range the lower introductory courses range for about $60

and you know which is more of like the lighter preliminary kind of basic indoctrination and then most of the training courses which is what it's called when you move out of that range and you start doing you know the basic books like Dianetics fundamentals of thought history a man these things it's you know roughly like 60 to 70 sometimes 90 depending on where you go but then when you do uh the bigger training courses that that are for auditor training that this there's this the and that we'll get into like the bridge to total

freedom which is which is like a chart of all the services you can do. Um, but your answer was also not, was nice. That would have been a lot better. Uh, you can jump around at any point, by the way,

it doesn't matter. Yeah. The training courses start about $2,500 each. Uh, and they have, if you're homeless, you can't come in. if you're a homeless person. Like, do they ever say no to any...

Like, if you come in and you very clearly have brain damage from a car accident, you're like, oh, I want to be a Scientologist. They say, come in, or do they go, no? Do you have money? Yeah, I got a bit of money from the settlement from the car accident. Yeah, then, well, let's help us. You know what would help you with your car accident is Dianetics. Let's heal you faster by doing some auditing.

I'll take that check, please. Thank you. We're just going to. So, there's no poor people unless they're doing the actual work. There's no poor people. Unless they're doing work. There have been, through the grapevine, actual work right there's no poor people i've unless they're doing work there has been there have been uh through the grapevine i've heard of some stories where a homeless person came into

uh one of the churches in florida and they were like they read one of the books they sat there and they were like this is what i want to do this makes sense i want to join i want to do what you're doing and he joined the seor and from there you know he had no more bills he he was able to uh you know they they took care of him from there and he's just tasked to do with whatever they need them to do it's not a I actually told that story to someone very colloquially and they were very upset that I was creating this idea that like like me me spreading that once me sharing that one story with another person was like like spreading the idea that Sea Org members are these hobos and I was like no it's still that still, that worked out for that guy,

similar to joining the army or something, getting some structure in your life. There are a lot of people who are released from prison and go back because they like this. Yeah, you've watched Shawshank Redemption. You have no stats on this. No, that's a real thing. They throw a brick at a window and they wait to be picked up.

People who have been in prison for a long time often have a difficulty assimilating back into... Are they all called Brooks? No. Brooks Jr. And so going... I'm sorry. Well, I was just going to say that doesn't stop there because then you have auditing,

which is sold in blocks of 12 and a half hours at $2,500 each. Or if you do it in Clearwater, it's $5,000 each. Why is it more in Florida? Because it's what's called an advanced org. It's at Flag. Flag is the most, it's like their spiritual headquarters. Jim hates Flag. So they just charge double for everything.

There is no state income tax, so it swings and roundabouts. It all works out. Is that the reason they're in Florida? Because there's no state income tax so it swings and roundabouts it all works out so is that the reason they're in florida because there's no state income tax that's why the base uh i don't know i well they don't pay taxes at all oh yeah so it's all charitable true that so so that you you can actually uh write off and they promote this you can write off donations to scientology on your taxes so they and they're these big posters that say let uncle sam help you you know uh you know get a bigger tax refund by donating to scientology and they they literally like are they behind cars for kids the transition and kids they're bloody dodgy yeah i don't know i'll tell you what scientology needs that they need a

bloke to work on a better logo yeah like you watch the all things comedy it's simplegy Yeah I don't know I'll tell you what Scientology needs They need a bloke To work on a better logo Yeah Like you watch The all things comedy It's simple I don't know about that logo It's a simple thing It's like

Scientology's like an S It looks like the stussy symbol With like a line Through the middle Is it two triangles? Yeah There's a couple of triangles Yeah

It's too busy And then there's the cross There's a lot going on there and uh it is so trademarked in scientology you're actually supposed to you're not allowed to get scientologist scientology tattoos like scientology if they're trademarked you have to send a special request if you want like uh you can only buy their clothing you can only buy their like anything with a scientology symbol you're not allowed to promote it in any way that isn't like uh approved sort of officially so um like you couldn't make scientology jewelry if you want it you'd have to there's already a

management organization that does that and you have to buy it from them really and that's just like necklaces with the thing on it and you can can't get the tat. Could you get your hair cut and get it like in a fade in the side where you cut it in? Yeah, you get a tattoo. Possibly, yeah, possibly. No, no, you said no tattoos, no tattoos. What are they going to do, rip your skin off? No.

Okay. The Jewish people don't like the tattoos either. You're going to be in the hole. I'm going to put you in the lower conditions. So they'll sell these auditing intensives in big blocks, so like in these big packages, which can range from $15,000 to $35,000 and even $60,000, depending on what your technical estimate is. Somebody who's reviewing you and who's selling you these services. Oh, you need to go, you know, here's your clear package. Here's your, you know, this will take you from the bottom of the services all the way up to the state of clear.

I have to check this very quickly. Checking your bank account? No, no, no. I'm going to check if there's any Scientology porn. Okay, while you're doing that. So, and the IAS, International Association of Scientology, that's the fundraising arm of it. Yeah, so the fundraising, yeah, they do most of the heavy lifting. They give them lots of money, I'm assuming.

I'm just assuming you write some checks. The medal that he had was given to him by the IAS. So the IAS does a lot of, you know, they go to every single part of the Scientology world that they can. And they throw these fundraising events like obsessively. And they, you know, they squeeze out as much money as they possibly can, you know. squeeze out as much money as they possibly can you know uh and they don't they have like a billion dollars plus in reserves uh that are mostly you know either assets like like like property or uh you know just cash there was actually a woman who came out and and uh let them know let when she sent a big wide just just quickly, there is... Okay.

What's the platform? What is it on? It's a lot of videos of Scientology porn. What is it? I haven't watched it. I haven't watched it. It's endorsed by Scientology. I'll have to come back. It just says Scientology porn amateur.

I don't know. I don't think it's endorsed by the church. Yeah. Swingers in Scientology. Scientology. Scientology and sex. Yeah, there's a buddy Scientology. It's actually funny. There's a guy, this small-time YouTuber.

This guy calls himself Tampa Brad who likes to promote. Shout out to Tampa Brad. Tampa Brad. Yeah, he likes to promote Scientology. He's actually doesn't, he doesn't do very much in Scientology at all, but he, he likes to talk about how he's like this,

like business mogul. Cause Grant Cardone is a Scientologist and, and Grant Cardone is his only, you know, is a big influencer for him. And it actually came out that he was, some people figured out that he and his wife have an OnlyFans and

she is doing a bunch of content to pay for his Scientology services. Wow. So, and he's in them and he's like nutting on her face and you know, dick between the titties. I mean, she's got a nice pair, I'm not going to lie. Puts it up her L. Ron Hubbard.

But, yeah, the second it was revealed, her whole account was taken down overnight. You're not going to get in trouble. L. Ron's dead. All right. We've got to start wrapping it up for us. This is a long podcast. Yeah, I know. Let's get to some of these.

Free Wins, that's not a song they sing when someone dies, right? Free winds is definitely a song they sing when someone dies. It's a spiritual... It's the boat. It's the vessel where you do OT8, or you can pay to do a bunch of manual labor. Oh, so that's the boat where they all salute and they sit with the hats and all that type of stuff. I've got to say, some of the girls in those outfits, though, watching the documentary, I was like, that outfit's all right, eh? And then the bridge to total freedom. And you wonder why they didn't watch you. Because I'm a disruptor.

They'd let you around some of the seer women and you'd get a little handsy. Oh, I'm not handsy. I'm very respectful. The bridge to total freedom, is that when you're always telling the truth? That's what Jim said truth it is not it is a list of services you can do in scientology uh it's on a big two-sided uh two two columns that that cover the what you can do as auditing and what you can do to train to be an auditor basically that goes all the way up to give me one of the most popular slogans from scientology like it's nice to be important but it's more important to be nice or um if there's time to lean there's time to clean or something can be done about it yeah which is ironic because they don't do

a hell whole hell of a lot they have another one very similar to we can all do better that was jim's slogan that was my slogan for a moment we could all do better i still stand by that we could all do better and uh we're not going to i think we can we all could the space opera and xenu that's that's part of uh what's going on there yeah a lot of people get this a lot of people get this one wrong but uh basically when you reach the level of ot3 which is an operating phaeton three yeah it's like the it's this this big uh turning uh point and you're an advanced it's like an advanced uh level in scientology you're you're you basically find out from l ron hubbard that

around 75 million years ago uh xenu was the ruler of a galactic confederation of planets and to solve overpopulation. He lured his people by tax audit and he froze and transported billions of his own people into spaceships that were similar to DC eights to a planet called Tikiak or Earth as we know it. exploding hydrogen bombs and after which their Thetans them as Thetans were gathered up sat in front of TV screens and brainwashed and given fake memories of different religions and then gathered up again and then sprinkled all over the earth and remain to inhabit the bodies of earthlings causing humans great spiritual harm makes sense is where the auditing is. And they're wondering why their religion isn't building. Such a simple philosophy. Okay. So easy to remember.

And so that's OT. So what happens, like, it goes OT, one, two, three, four, five, and then going clear? That's the... No, going clear. So you do the lower bridge. There are, like, these grade levels. So you grade zero. I could go through all of them. But clear, and then you do OT preparations. And then after OT preparations, you do one and two. And they're like courses on how to, because you audit yourself on these ot levels you telepathically communicate with the phaetons that are stuck to your body and uh you you you find out later on uh up the ot levels that uh none of your past lives were actually yours they were just the memories of these body phaetons and and uh then you're and there is no nine and ten eleven twelve and thirteen fourteen fifteen and you paid out

of yourself they haven't made them and how long did it take for you to go clear um when i actually well when i was actually uh allowed to do the services uh you know i was actually paid for it it didn't take me very long but there's a lot of stuff in between i i went clear when i was i think 22 and did you walk around like, fuck it, I'm clear, bitches. Basically, you don't get a hat, but you get a silver bracelet with a big old fat Scientology symbol on it. It says your clear number on the back, too. I still have it.

You just hold it up. You're like, anyways, looking at that fence over there. Yeah, you're just like, it's around, you know, it's... Yeah, you're like... You know, it's like, get me that book off the shelf. Get that fence over there. Yeah, you're just like, it's around, you know, it's... Yeah, you're like... You know, it's like, get me that book off the shelf. Get me that book for me.

Exactly. Yeah. Literally. Yeah, right. And then... And did your wife ever go, leave the bracelet on? Well, she had one too, Jim. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You got hand jobs where you could hear the clanging of fetuses. They were quite loud. I'm not going to lie. There was some pinching as well. Clanging of fetuses. It was a little dangerous. Criminal activity. Maybe Operation Snow White and Operation Freakout.

Maybe we can just, I mean, we can talk about that real quick. Yeah, we can jump through. So, you know, Snow White was actually attempts by L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology leadership to infiltrate and destroy any records, any negative records of L. Ron Hubbard in things like the IRS. um scientology basically plants in different organizations government organizations all around the world uh where they were um you know funneling government uh folders and files through to directly to l run hubbard um and they had uh basically the government at when they uh one of the guys basically was almost caught and when they tried to when they tried to uh because he was like he had like infiltrated the irs and he was the government was looking for him so scientology kidnapped him put him in uh some secret facility and uh kept him there for a few months and then

once he escaped he turned himself into the fbi and uh there was one of the biggest raids you know ever done on a cult was was done on Scientology in in LA and they did they recovered over 48,000 documents that were recovered and collected through the espionage from Scientology yeah what just happened at Mar-a-Lago? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Empire. President. Like, it's impeached. You're on Harvard. He's impeached now.

Oh. They got him. They just take away their tax status. Good luck. And they lost their tax exempt status. Oh, did they? Yeah, yeah. They only got it back. They lost it, and then they did, in in 1993 they did the whole uh they personally attacked

and harassed individual members of the is or irs uh and uh you know took their slandered them and got them their jobs got they got fired and you know there's a lot of like personal uh threats going on and they they eventually were able to get their tax exempt status uh reinstated and since then it's sort of been like this, you know, urban legend that if you talk bad about Scientology, you know, David Miscavige is going to come in your closet and, you know, watch you. I don't want that. I don't want him to come in my closet.

If I see him come in my closet, it will either be Forrest or David Miscavige. Well, you hear his his bracelet jingling. Is that a euphemism? Okay. All right. You'll hear his bracelet jingling if he's in there, you know. And then the psychiatry question. Why no psychiatry?

Yeah. So, like I said, in the 50s, when Orrin Hubbard was sort of told off by the APA he declared that you know psychiatrists were the were were descendant from these you know invader forces from millions of years ago who are the pinnacle of all evil and they shocked and manipulated thetans and they you know beat them down into this like uh degraded form essentially it's like the antithesis to scientology whereas uh you know in scientology they say oh we're trying to lift you out of this sort of physical entrapment psychiatry is said to like uh make you more of a body and more matter and and they just they they disregard every sector of mental health and provide no alternative well they have that museum here in la which is the

museum of horror or something like that about yeah industry yeah industry of death wait that's that's scientology yeah yeah yeah citizens commission on human rights is entirely funded by the church of Scientology it just shows you pictures of people getting like electric shock therapy like I've heard people have

gone to that museum and they're like isn't there like a church of like happiness here too like some happiness there the way to happiness foundation

are you in recovery do you see therapy about this are there groups for people like you who have left the church where you can therapy about this are they are they groups for people like you who have left the church where you can all get together like alcoholics do or or what what goes on there i'm not trying to be funny because when you when you leave when you leave a cult

there you know most cults are identically uh most cults are very identical in the way that they abuse you and that that abuse can be generalized. And although Scientology has like a whole bunch of nomenclature and, you know, so much context, I guess, to the individual stories. I have been through a lot of therapy with a specialist who specializes in this kind of thing. But, you know, it is hard, you know, especially when you leave Scientology and you think that all, you know, you kind of identify every form of mental health with like psychiatric drugging. And you don't have to even take, you're like terrified at the idea that, you know, take a an antidepressant and you're gonna like go on a mass shooting spree because that's what scientology will tell you is gonna happen if you take antidepressants i've taken them for years yeah only one mass shooting

yeah great um and this is the part i never got caught neither this is a part of our show called dinner party facts where we ask our our expert to give us some sort of obscure interesting i've given a lot of obscure interesting facts already uh i think that's a lot of scientology but uh do you have anything that like this this our listeners would be able to use if this came up at a dinner party and just really wow people with this the yes there's something in scientology called the cause resurgence rundown. Okay. There's a confidential service that you can pay for. It's $2,500. You can do it as many times as you want, but it's $2,500.

And what it is, is you run around in a circle in a pitch black room around like a 30 foot dimly lit pole for five hours a day for like a for like a month a month and a half what does that get you what does that help you but what it you so you're in the room and you're running in a circle what are you getting jim yeah what's not clear to you jim yeah i've been to club twenty five hundred500 to exercise. There's a girl that spins around the pole, and I throw dollars at her. Cause resurgence system. And at the end of it, are you meant to feel like,

oh, good exercise? I'm lighter from that $2,500. The lore answer, the sort of answer they'll give you is clearing up stuck energy flows that are holding you down, but it was actually invented by L. Ron Hubbard to kind of, it was like as a punishment for people who were working for him who weren't doing enough. He had them run around a flagpole.

So that kind of evolved into this service that you can do where you run around this big pole with like 15 others. You're not allowed to talk to anyone. And you just do it five hours a day. He sprayed it. You're allowed to do it as many times as you want.

That's the secret. It's just $2,500 each time. It sounds expensive, but you can do it every day. Yeah. Well, the pounds just shut off. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You run around a pole in a dark room. For five hours a day. That's better than keto.

Mate, thank you very much. You get your own uniform, which is a whole pitch black uniform. I still got it in the closet. It's pretty comfy. You paid for that shit? You actually went in for that one? He was in Scientology. I know, but he didn't have to do that one.

When do you think he was like, not this. This is where I draw the line. He was already in it. Ian, thanks for being here with us. You can find Ian on his YouTube channel, Ian Rafalko. That's I-A-N-R-A-F-A-L-K-O. And then IG and Twitter, at Ian Rafalko. Yeah, thank you for being here with us.

Thank you so much for being on the podcast. Pleasure to be here. It was eye-opening. I thought I knew everything. It turns out I knew very little. Ladies and gentlemen, if you're ever at a party and someone goes, there's a spaceship that takes them up to a special place and we're all monkeys that are in each other's bodies,

go, I don't know about that, and then walk away. Good night, Australia.