I Don't Know About That - The Circus

Episode Date: February 15, 2022

In this episode, the team discusses circuses with professor of American Studies & History and author of "The Circus Age: Culture and Society under the American Big Top", Janet M. Davis. Go to JimJefferies.com to buy tickets to Jim's upcoming tour, The Moist Tour.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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promo code IDK. Gillian. Both Bob Denver and the chocolates I don't know what's happening I don't know what's Gillian

Gillian chocolate sometimes a seashell you might find out and I don't know about that with Jim Jefferies Gillian I don't know Gillian I don't know

I was about to say I was about to list off different chocolates and then I was saying like Gilligan like Gill don't know. I was about to say, I was about to list off different chocolates, and then I was saying like Gilligan, like Gilligan's Island, and then I said Bob Denver who played Gilligan. I got lost. Ghirardelli chocolate is what you're trying to say? No, you're talking about the fucking seashells that come in the,

the marbly type seashell chocolates, Gillian's. I don't know what that is, but that sounds good. They're very good. They're very good. They've got a praline filling. Lovely. Hazelnut praline. Is don't know what that is. That sounds good. They're very good. They're very good. They've got a praline filling. Lovely. Hazelnut praline. Is it a British thing?

Yes. Okay. Yeah, very good. Very good. How's everyone been? We all had a good week. I've got some gigs coming up. Are you on these gigs with me, Forrest?

No. I was on the ones with you. It just happened. Oh, they were good, weren't they? What about- Amazing. What about all the women that showed up? So many good-looking girls.

I'm saying this so I can sell tickets to boys. Man, if you come to my shows, it's 90% just Instagram models. I don't know why. And they're all single and want to talk. Yeah, it's all like single porn stars that have just broken up and they'll shag anything. Jeez, my shows. There was too many women for my liking.

Yeah, the big muffled stick. Yeah, if I could for my liking. The Big Muffin Stick. Yeah, if I could space it. No one's in couples either. It's just like single people who are up for it. But I'm married, so I can't take one of them. You can have them all as an audience member. You can have sex with any woman you want in Redding, Pennsylvania, coming up.

The 24th. I think we have to say allegedly you can have sex. Consensually. You can consensually have sex with any woman you want who will consensually have sex with you, anyone you want. All you need is confidence. There's a lot of consonality. Consonality.

Consensuality. You've got to ask. You've got to ask. But you won't have to ask too much at these gigs because these girls are well up for it. And then it goes. So February 24th. And then we go to be.

That's Reading, Pennsylvania. Reading, Pennsylvania. At the Santander Performing Arts Center. At the Santana. The classic Santana. February 25th. February 25th in Boston, Massachusetts. No, no, no.

Washington, D.C. At the DAR Constitution Hall. Yeah, that's a big room. There's still, no. Washington, D.C. Washington, D.C. At the DAR Constitution Hall. Yeah, that's a big room. There's still tickets available in Washington. And I believe Boston the next night. February 26th, Boston. I believe that gig by the time this podcast comes out is probably going to be sold out.

So if you're listening to it right now. Sorry. Very close to being sold out, if not sold out. So try to get your tickets for that one. But looking forward to this weekend. There's some big gigs, man. It's at the Bach Center Wang But looking forward to this weekend. There's some big gigs, man. It's at the Bach Center Wang Theater, according to your website.

But it also says you'll be in Las Vegas March 11th and 12th at the Bach Center Wang Theater. And I know that's not true, so I think that's an error. That sounds like an error. Every theater that I perform in now is called the Big Wang Theater. If you want to see Jim in Las Vegas 11 vegas 11 and 12 i'll be with you there it's not the box center wing they just got rid of the volcano or something at the mirage i requested that i'm gonna bring the baby you get scared of volcanoes so they got rid of that you can blame me the link is correct i just clicked it on jim jeffries uh.com all the links

are correct so if you see the city you like just click on the link and you'll be fine. So, yeah. Oh, and I'm going to be. Oh, I just got these dates, actually. I'm going to be at Sidesplitters in Tampa. Bobby Jewell. The original. He doesn't own it anymore.

He did, though. The spirit of Bobby Jewell will always be there. Yeah, yeah. Maybe he still has a part. I'm not sure. But April 7th through 9th, I'll be at Sidesplitters in Tampa. It's the original room. They have a couple other clubs now.

It's the original one. It's a great club. It's really fun to perform there. I reckon you'll sell that out because you would have just been in Tampa with me and promoted the gig. I did promote it in Tampa. Yeah, people went. All those girls went crazy.

So if you want to see those girls in a more intimate setting of a comedy club, they'll all be going down there. Tampa's finest. And also hot chicks from New York have flown in. It's true. From seven through nine. Side splatters. The hot chick show.

I hope there's one person listening going, I think he's legit. I think he's flying in people. I mean, it is called the moisture. Let me just say this, right? Maybe, maybe I'm lying. Right? What if I'm not? What if there is the smallest chance that my audience

is just packed with the best looking birds ever to war? They are. I'm single. I can attest to it. Yeah, Forrest was knee deep. I had a 9-some. Wow. I've never had that before. Forrest had a 9-some. And then Orlando, I think it was had a 9-some a 9-some wow yeah I've never had that before dang Forrest had a 9-some

and then Orlando I think it was like a 12-some yeah no no no Forrest has had 12-somes before but he's never had a 9-some yeah yeah yeah he's gone higher

I've had all the numbers it was just that one I remember all the women lining up afterwards for the meet and greet right so they line up for the meet and greet and they're going to get a photo

I was like sure and I talked to them a bit about the gig and then they whispered in my ear where's forest and i said join the queue jj whitehead was there too you got none zero that's right yeah it was so embarrassing it was so embarrassing he's arguably better looking than me, too. Yeah, but he had to stand in the hallway because all those girls in the dresser with you, there's no space. Yeah, so the fat's back in.

All right. That brings us to our ads. Also, hey, hey, hey, people, Patreon, come and join the fun. We have a gig after, we have a show afterwards. We've been doing a lot of things on there and we do an extra podcast. The race is coming up soon, our foot race. And I believe we're going to visit Bill's Burgers. We're been doing a lot of things on there and we do an extra podcast. The race is coming up soon. Our foot race. And I believe we're going to visit Bill's Burgers. We're going to visit Bill's Burgers.

But if you enjoy the first bit of the podcast and not the meat of the podcast where we talk about subjects, this is the podcast for you. Go on to Patreon if you just want me to tell the same stories every five episodes. It's happening. Ad free. Ad free. Bonus episode every week.

You can buy these ones ad free. Fucking hell. Christmas comes every month for you at the Jim Jefferies podcast, Patreon, whatever. How do they find it? Patreon.com slash IDKAT. Patreon.com to IDKAT.

And then follow us on Instagram as well, IDKAT podcast. And also, if you listen to the podcast, we know who listens on Patreon, right? All hot chicks. Yeah, that's true. Thousands of hot chicks. They send in their photos and we're like, we don't want them. Stop it.

We're trying to get up. We're too busy. We're trying to diversify. We're trying to diversify. It's different races of hot chicks, but we just need just a couple of ugly blokes. We're short of ugly men on the Patreon. I don't think there's a single ugly man. I'm not saying you got to meet the girls

because you don't meet other people on Patreon, but if you meet a hot chick and you say you're on the Patreon, they will obviously be on the Patreon. You have a conversation starter. Yeah, you listen to the Patreon? Yeah, yeah. How can you lose that? It's a new year, which means it's time to leave behind the things

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Ooh. It's the Vincero. Vincero collection. Oh, yeah, yeah. Vincero. I didn't even know they were a sponsor. My house, a stunning watch and a great pair of sunglasses, mate. I love the watch. And my wife was like, what did you get? And I go,

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and then I give it to Jack. Will it look like this? You never know if it'll look like this. You ever buy anything on Etsy where someone goes, it's just a bloody idiot making stuff themselves? Or it's just a picture that they ripped from somewhere else, and it's a completely different product. Will it be broken in a week?

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I got a watch. It's cool. The watch looks like it's worth a lot more money than you paid for it. The sunglasses, dynamite. The altitude is the watch I got. The watch is killer. Yeah. Okay.

Please welcome our guest, Dr. Janet Davis. And now it's time to play. Yes, no. Yes, no. Yes, no. Yes, no. Yes, no. Yes, no. Judging a book by its cover. All right.

G'day, Janet. Thanks for being on the show. Dr. Janet Davis. Well, I don't know that yet. I just told you. I know. You shouldn't have. So normally I try to pick what a person does by looking in the room that they're in,

but you have slyly made your area all blurry. Either that, either that, or you just live in a terribly decorated house where everything doesn't match up properly or it matches up too perfectly that it's a seamless blur. So you're a doctor. Are you a doctor of medicine? Doctor of philosophy. Ah, doctor of Philosophy.

So do I still have to call you Doctor, though? She said we can call her Janet, but I was introducing her as Doctor Janet. Doctor of Philosophy. All right, Doctor of Philosophy. So, okay, so it's back. Okay, so I know that this topic, there's a documentary on it because Kelly let that slip. Wow, now you've got it

yeah figured it out well there's only like five or six topics i'm trying to think of i'm trying to think of a documentary about philosophy uh if a documentary is doesn't air on netflix does it exist it is on netflix ah but it does exist all right so it's nothing to do with philosophy i know but that's how i get there everything's got to do with philosophy. I know, but that's how I get there. Everything's got to do with philosophy. This is the process. Everything. Everything, Forrest. Life has to go through with philosophy.

I got chastised on Instagram because I didn't let you answer a question. People like me to ramble. My wife got upset with you. She was watching other clips. She went, why did Forrest cut you off? And I go, well, that's a big question there, Tase. Yeah, because the question was. You're doing it again, Forrest.

The question was, and then you went around it no but that's what's entertaining alright so is it a documentary about crime there's some criminal elements in it oh okay is it a documentary about an

entertainer yes are we about to talk about R. Kelly? Yes. Are we? How'd you know? Oh, I think you said it so earnestly. Okay, documentary.

Is it an entertainer that's still alive? I could preface this by saying multiple entertainers. Not a specific one. Yes. I'll give you a hint, but I don't think you're going to know this. Luis, right over there. Oh, God. His favorite movie.

Is he still your favorite movie? Yes. Yeah, his favorite musical movie is about this topic. And it's a bad movie. It's terrible. It's a stupid, dumb movie. But it's his favorite movie. Is's terrible. It's a stupid, dumb movie. But it's his favorite movie. Is it Love Actually?

Is it a musical? Also a terrible movie. It's classified as a musical. It's got songs in it. And it is a musical now. It's on the stage. It's a musical on the stage. Now, I'll give you a hint

and this is still going to throw you off. Hugh Jackman's in it. Oh, Hugh Jackman. The greatest showman. Oh, I thought you were going to go the other way with Les Mis, but yeah. Oh, no. Les Mis. I to go the other way Oh no Les Mis I know enough about Les Mis

I could be the professor Actually I don't know that much So the subject is I've never seen it I've never seen it The subject is the circus Ah the circus That's not a documentary

There's a documentary about the circus It We're talking about the circus. Ah, the circus. Yeah. That's not a documentary about the circus. There's a documentary about the circus. I'll tell you this much. It's four hours long. I know that my wife would hate this topic because my wife doesn't like

animals being used as entertainment. So she's anti-circus. I have to sneak my son out to the zoo and then be like this. Don't tell your stepmother we went to the zoo.

Because I think some zoos are good, but that's a different topic. All right. So Dr. Janet Davis is a professor of American Studies and History at the University of Texas at Austin. She regularly serves as humanities consultant. What is wrong? I can't speak today.

And most recently for the award-winning documentary miniseries, The Circus. Fuck. That's in my own head. The Cir documentary miniseries, The Circus. Fuck. That's in my own head. The Circus. It's called The Circus. I thought that was a documentary about politics. No, there is a documentary about politics.

Or a docuseries about politics. Which aired nationally on PBS in 2018. Is now streaming on Netflix worldwide. So you can watch it, Jim. She's the author of The Gospel of Kindness, Animal Welfare, and the Making of Modern America. Also The Circus Age, Culture and Society Under the American Big Top, and Circus Queen and Tinkerbell,

The Life of Tiny Klein. All those books are available on Amazon or anywhere else that you can buy books. Janet, thanks for being here. How did you get into the circus? How did you have that happen? Thanks so much, Forrest. um well kind of circuitously quite honestly i was that's another how did what's securitously mean like one podcast at a time here jenny you're bloody using big words

like secure is that about the circus yeah so i spent a lot of my childhood in Madison, Wisconsin, which is pretty close to Baraboo, Wisconsin, which is a circus mecca. The Ringling Brothers got their start there. Another circus, the Galmar Brothers got its start there. and watching circus shows and going to the museum, Circus World Museum. So to me, that was just totally normal. I played a lion tamer in a high school play, Fearless Fanny the Lion Tamer. And so circus was always kind of- First of all, I have to correct you just here very quickly. Fanny in the rest of the world does not mean bum.

It means vagina. I think this is just the name of a person no fearless vagina is a hell of a stage name like i used to laugh my ass off when americans called them fanny packs that would kill me anyway fearless vagina go from that point on of course yes so i played fearless f Vagina at a high school play. And I also then later on, I was a flight attendant for some years and you really learn how to travel fast when you work for an airline. is like to some degree. But anyway, the real moment of kind of decision to study the circus came when I was in a new student in graduate school and I was in Chicago at the science, the Museum of Science and Industry. And they had all these weird bodily displays like, you know, they had pendulums, they had slices of the human body, all this stuff. But they also had an exhibition of circus

photographs from the early 20th century. And at the time, I was studying modern India, actually, and colonial pop culture over in India. And so when looking at all these photographs of small towns across America around 1900 or so on what was called Circus Day, there'd be thousands of people in the streets. There'd be elephants dressed up in howdas, people from all over the world, animals from all over the world, processing in the streets. And I thought, oh my gosh, this looks so much like what I saw going on in my studies in colonial india and like what the hell is going on here what was going on a hundred or so years ago that you know thousands of people would flock into the streets to see this spectacle and that's what got me started all right well ask away first i reckon

i don't know what circuitous means still no No, no, no. It's like the different podcast. Why not? It didn't get answered. Do you? Yeah, it's like a nonlinear path, like a winding kind of way to get there. So when she said that, she went from here. It's a small lime.

It's a small lime. All right, so we're going to ask Jim what he thinks he knows about circuses. And I got some series of questions. After he's done answering those, Janet, you're going to grade him 0 through 10. 10's the best on his accuracy. Kelly's going to grade him on confidence. I'm going to grade him on etc.

We'll add all the scores together. If you score 21 through 30, Jim, 3 ring. 11 through 22 ring. 0 through 10 ring. Okay. A lot of effort in the categories today. I had to flee there, but... Sorry. Which civilization is credited with creating the first circuses?

First of all, I thought you were going to ask me what a circus is, but I'll answer your question. You don't know what a circus is? It's a variety show. Okay. I'm just assuming you know what a circus is. Yeah, I don't know, but there's many things under the umbrella of circus. Like Cirque du Soleil is still a circus.

Next to a big top circus. Yeah, a tent was right there. Yeah, yeah, umbrella. It's terrible. So what was your question? What was your question? What civilization is credited with creating the first circuses? Oh, this is a tricky one.

Creating the first circuses, it would have to be somewhere. See, the Greeks claimed to have invented everything. The Greeks invented everything and then just left it all to perish. They've never finished anything. I've been over there. Run down. But I'll say the Greeks. They would have done it right after the Olympics.

And then when was the venues, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stop rutting people here here we'll put some lines when was a modern circus created and who created it uh okay i want to say pt barnum but i don't know if he was just the best bloke at sort of uh self-publicity type of guy i've seen some movies about him but uh so let's say pt barnum. And I want to say the modern circus was created, I'll call it an American invention. Because you might have had-

I know when, I'm saying when. Oh, 1850s. Okay. And then who is credited with building the first permanent circus building and also inventing the circus ring in 1769? 1769. Okay, so I want to go forward to 1680.

For the last answer? Yeah, 1680 for that one. 1680, all right. And then I'll say P.T. Barnum did the circle. But did he also do the other one? No, he didn't do the other one. The other one was invented by Chris Soleil. Chris Soleil. Chris Soleil.

Chris Soleil of the Cirque family. Yeah. Okay. In fact, I might say that the circus was invented in France. That sounds like a thing they'd do with all their fucking mimes and stuff. And also, they're pretty shitty to animals as well, the French with their fragoir and all that type of stuff. I imagine the first show was a French man kicking a pig around a room.

What is a menagerie menagerie is uh where you keep birds i don't know yeah it's where you keep birds and cages and shit man i think okay what was the main attraction when the circus first took place in america oh uh when it when it first took place in America, the main attraction would have been Freaks. They would have had a couple of, you know, I don't know if Freak Shows counts as a circus, but they feel like they're very closely connected. It would have been a couple of Siamese twins connected at the Skull. Okay. So kicking the pig first, then Freaks. Yeah. Okay. What is a tent show and how did that change things?

Tent shows when you wake up with a stiffy. You show your wife. Hey, babe. And you guys told you it works. It's your fault. So, yeah, a tent show is when you have a circus in a tent. It's a travelling show where they put the tent up and a guy in a top hat, the ringmaster, who's in a ring, and he'll get up and go,

hello, ladies and gentlemen, you're going to see death-defying feats. And then someone will come out with a dog riding on the back of an elephant and we'll go, oh, I never thought I'd see that. And then you'll see it. And then there'll be a lion tamer. They've always got a stool or a chair. That's their biggest weapon. The theory behind that is that the lion thinks that the chair legs

are actual legs of another animal. I don't believe the lion's that dumb, to be honest with you. Is that really what they say? That's what they reckon, yeah. That's why they use the chair, because it feels like another animal's coming at them. Did I know that? Does circus travel from town to town?

It does, yeah, it does. How did it? Trains, if you watch like Indiana Jones, they'll have it back in the old day before the car was a modernized thing, and then you could have trucks and stuff like that. By today's standards, you do it in trucks. But back then they were done it by steam train and they had the circus train that goes by and there's always a fucking giraffe with its head

sticking out the top. And then you go to the circus, there's never a fucking giraffe, but they're always on the train. Maybe they just support the circus, but they're never performers. Just fans. They can't fit in the big top fucking useless animal for circus tunnels through mountains with the yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah they get they get lost yeah i'd be bad in tunnels yeah they get lost in an underpass the old draft so so you mentioned pt burnham like who is he he was he was one of the great self-promoters

and he was really good at pr and rapping and he rapping, and he was a guy who gave posters and put mystifying things that you're never going to see. He was a hype man. Hype man. How did religion affect the circus? He was played by Michael Crawford in the musical P.T. Barnum. That's all I know. Who did Hugh Jackman play?

P.T. Barnum? Yeah, but the original West End musical was Michael Crawford who played the Phantom. But he was some mothers do have him. He went, ooh, Betty. And if you haven't seen the show, you don't know what I'm saying. But he was a very talented man. He was also a condor man.

Anyway, if we ever do a podcast on him, I'm all over it. How did religion affect circuses? They would have stopped some of the fun things because pagans always invent something. There would have been pagans. And then the Christians would have come in and gone, stop slaughtering the lambs or something on stage. There would have been some Christian uproar and calling it paganism,

and then that would have changed everything. And also they would have said that some of the magic that you would have seen would have been witchcraft and they would have got upset by that how were women treated in the circus ah too well if you ask me uh maybe no i don't know um i i reckon i reckon you were like they were all treated the same like it wasn't circus to circus it's like they had like a mandate that we put them all in boxes. Like maybe there was- Were they treated poorly? Were they like worse than the men, equal?

Whenever you ask that question, the answer is poorly. There's never a piece of history, and the women were treated better than the men. And let's get onto the black people. They were treated like kings. No, that's not how it works. Of course, if it's an historical question, the women weren't treated well.

So I reckon, okay, what happened was there was a woman. She worked front desk. She sold tickets and all that type of stuff. They kept on shoving her in a box to travel around from town to town. And then that's how they invented the contortionist. Yeah. On the 12th of November, 1859, what was Jules Lyotard? The first to do.

I know you're very old, but we don't call him that anymore. The first to do at Cirque Napoleon in Paris. Uh, that's his name again. That went Jules Lyotard in 1859. It was the first person to do this at Cirque. I will say,

I will say, cause with the, to this day, the French are all like really still into tight tight rope walking I'll say he's a tight rope walker

or trapeze I'm not going to do that one this one okay what happened at the Ringling Brothers and

Barnum and Ringling Brothers and Barnum and Bailey Circus at Hartford Connecticut on July 6 1944

they had a fight like the sharks and the jets but it was you know dancing yeah dancing fight all holding lion chairs at each other no there was probably the fire they all died

okay what type of elephant does ringling brothers circus use the most of indian or african i i know about the difference between the two elephants. I'm trying to think what... Yeah, we did a whole episode on elephants. Yeah, I'm going to say they use African elephants. Okay, and then... Oh, they probably use the smaller ones for travel. I'm going to go Indian. Okay, Jumbo.

Famous elephant, right? Yeah. He's an elephant, right? Yeah. His name's fucking Jumbo, folks.bo jumbo was only 40 inches tall at the shoulders when he was discovered in french sudan africa in 1861 so you want to change your last answer so why was he why was he named jumbo he's fucking massive wasn't he he was only 40 inches tall oh okay i was like same thing as when you call a fat person tiny. Nickname. Okay.

I think that's a real answer, Kelly. What do you love about it? I don't know if I can say this word. What is a fun- Funambulist. Funambulist. A funambulist? Funambulist. It's when you overdose on drugs,

but then you feel good before you get to the hospital. A funambulist? I think that's right. You sweat it out and you go, I don't need the hospital anymore. Take me back to the party. I should have put this question up there. This question was out of order, sorry.

What beverage was Jumbo sometimes allowed to drink one to two gallons of for health concerns? I guess they were worried about him. Baja Blast. Gallons, what beverage? Gallons? Yeah, he was allowed to drink it one or two gallons. What beverage? Gallons? Yeah. He was allowed to drink it one or two gallons.

They only let him drink, right? Because of health concerns. They didn't let him drink more of this. Oh, so it's not like milk or water or Coca-Cola. Coca-Cola. Okay. Oh, no, wait a minute. Dogs don't drink Coca-Cola.

Well, no, but Jumbo's an elephant. Yeah, I know. But like dogs fucking eat everything. I assume that no animal likes Coca-Cola except for us. For health. I'm going to say orange juice. Okay. animal likes Coca-Cola except for us. I'm going to say orange juice. Okay. No, Coca-Cola, fuck it.

I'm moving that one there. When was Ringling Brothers Circus created, and how many of the brothers were included in this creation? Ringling, three brothers. Uh-huh. They were created in the 1920s everything all i know is during the depression there was some people who did entertainment vaudeville and all that type of bullshit around then and i reckon that would have been when there you go okay a couple more questions and we'll get to january why was the circus originally considered adult entertainment and how did they change to appeal to be appropriate for because jumbo used to fuck

um it was adult i assume there was probably some burlesque elements to it back in the day maybe like if you see like the moulin rouge it's not really stripping it's women on like merry-go-round uh horses topless with big headsets and stuff. And I imagine that probably if the circus originated in France, that probably was a bit of a carryover there, like Moulin Rouge-y type things. And then people were like, you know what would be good is if we could sell this show to the whole family

because adults are bored out of their mind. So they went, what we'll do is bring in a monkey, slap a fucking hat on it and put it on an elephant. You got yourself a show. Okay. When did Clown College start? Well, what, for me? No, Clown College.

I didn't know there was a Clown College. Oh, the University of Phoenix. No. Okay. So Clown College would have started in the 1950s and it would have been people who came back from the war and they were super happy and so they decided to you know go to clown college i think there's like isn't one of florida or isn't it being a clown is a weird fucking personal endeavor like fuck john wayne Gacy and all that type of stuff.

Like, he was bad for other reasons. But, like, we had a clown that used to come to my birthdays and when I was a little- Like, invited? Yeah. His neighbor who's a clown. He just loved parties. No, no, that was me 35th.

And, no, there was this clown that used to come to my birthdays. He was called Coco the Clown. And he used to come to my birthdays. He was called Coco the Clown. And he used to come along. I hope Coco had kids or a family or something like that. Because if he was just a single bloke carrying on the way he was, he was no good. Do you remember when we did that comedy festival in Grand Rapids and the guy that was our driver was a part-time fire safety clown?

Do you remember that guy? What? And his name was Flamo. I have his card, so we're still. I thought he was a fire safety clowntime fire safety clown. Do you remember that guy? What? And his name was Flamo. I have his card, so we're still... I thought he was a fire safety clown. Fire safety clown. It's like, do you have... Is it one of the things,

is there like a Jedi council for clowns where they all sit there and they go, they all have a panel and they decide whether someone's a clown and they go, is this person a clown? Honk, honk. Clownsall, good, Jack. I was killing it today.

But I feel like anyone can be a clown. I like a clown that goes all the way. You've got to have the big shoes. You've got to have the wig. You've got to have the nose. You've got to have a flower that sprays water. Wait, what clowns aren't going all the way? Oh, you'll see some that are just putting on a hat.

A half-ass clown. Yeah, those hobo outfits. And there's just a little bit of makeup you know they're no good put the effort in your clown all right here let's uh let's do three more questions and we'll get all right who is responsible for the greatest show on earth tagline uh pt barnum what toy company bought the circus in 1971 1971 bought the circus. I would say Mattel. And then what did Ringling Brothers and Barnum & Bailey eliminate from their show starting in 2016? Ringling Worm.

No, what was the year? I'll answer it properly. 2016, they eliminated this from their show. Oh, bestiality. It was turning the kids off. Oh, that was serious. Okay. How did this affect you? Come and watch this from their show. Oh, bestiality. It was turning the kids off. Oh, that was serious. Okay.

How did this affect you? Come and watch this chip get fucked. More fucked than anyone has ever been fucked since the dawn of time. They eliminated it from their show. They just wheeled out. He's not a baboon. His ass is just raw. Eliminated it.

They eliminated it. 2016. They eliminated in 2016. Yeah. The bit where the song, aren't the germans fun people the anthem of the circus they're not fun people we've kind of gotten a limb and say that song's not appropriate anymore we've done our own research the germans fun aren't the germans fun you went along like that

follow-up question How did this affect tickets? Yes, because there was a lot of German support. Okay. Janet, how you doing? Okay. Janet, I'm not disappointed that I don't know any of these facts. I'm disappointed that you know them, really. Like, you spent a lot of time on this, Janet.

Bloody hell. How did Jim do? Zero through ten. Ten's the best on his knowledge of the circus. Well, I'm going to need to count. I'm going to say he, estimating from my notes here, about a 50%. All right. Five.

I'm surprised by that. Very surprised. Five. Okay. Kelly, how are you doing confidence? Negative three. Wow. That might be his worst confidence. I thought it was very surprised. Five. Okay. Kelly, how do you do on confidence? Negative three. Wow. That might be his worst confidence. I thought I was very confident.

Yeah. Well, I don't know. Do you know the German answer already? Yeah. When she pulls out the German song. I know. Well, yeah, I learned it on the recorder last night. Anyone at home, Google it now before it happens. I'm right. All right. So we're up to two. I'm give you zero and etc that means you're a flea i changed it to

flea flea flea circuses they were bullshit weren't they flea circuses all you do is you have like a little swing and then you have a little bit of wire and you go there there the swing flea circus that's a real thing yeah you go it's like it's like it's a little tiny like it's this big and people go oh look i've got a flea circus then you have like little bits of dental floss where you pull like the swing and you make the seesaw go up and down by itself and you act like there's fleas in there you go look at what's going on look at the fleas look what they're up to so janet we're gonna go back through these questions here now with jim uh the first question was which civilization is

credited with creating the first circuses jim said greeks then changed it to france and he said they kicked the guy kicked the pig around how do you do yeah well he was closer on his first answer with the greeks it's it's the romans um and it's not even really the actual circus entertainment it's the circular ring and the structure that held the entertainment. So the circus maximus. So you're talking like gladiators were counted as a circus? Yeah, they called it a circus.

Circus maximus. I know, but it's not a circus. No, you're right. It's like calling boxing the squarest. You know what I mean? Because it's in a square, even though they call it a ring. That's always confusing. That is a really good point, actually.

Jack's like, oh. We're going to lose Jack for a few days. He's got to go up into the woods and really think about things. Yeah. So it's really a reference to the structure. It's actually not even called a circus for its content really until the late 1700s. So a lot of time passes, but the building that has a circular ring in it. So what was the first year again? What was the first year? Well, ancient Rome. I mean, so, you know, back in ancient Rome, I don't know.

Yeah, we didn't ask the year. So the next one was, when was a modern circus created? And Jim said. Although the Roman one would have had lines. 1680s. 1680s. Your score's set in stone. You can't change it. Jim said 1680s.

Still contribute to the conversation. He said Chris Soleil. He said Chris Soleil invented the modern circus in 1680s in America. How'd he do there that one he really did badly on um you either know it or you don't it's not one you can just sort of guess the name it's like yeah my chances of getting it right with not knowing it were pretty slim yeah it's it is pretty specialized yeah so. So this is the first the modern circus was created in 1768. So this is a it was created in England. An English cavalry officer, veteran named Philip Astley.

He was a veteran of the Seven Years War, and he came back from war and decided to open a writing school. So he taught trick riding. Then in the afternoons, he'd have… It was an open air in a ring. He would have these other kinds of entertainment. When you were talking about, well, what is a circus? You were onto something with the variety show element of it because it's a multi-act entertainment that occurs in a ring and it's encircled by an audience. And so that is what Philip Astley does in 1768. And then the next year, he actually moves his operation into a building. And the thing that's, I think, really important here is that he figured out that a person who is dancing on top of a horse that's cantering, that that diameter of that ring has to be about 42 feet for all of that to occur.

So the physics of the horse is how the circus originally, the modern circus, was created. So you're saying the stage would have been a lot smaller if they were dancing on the back of dogs there you go if dogs had been the animal so the pig kicking routine was in a small space was it that's right that's right that would be of an entirely different kind of dimension next next time when i perform in the round and i do it every now and again um am i allowed to say welcome to the circus and would I be accurate in saying that? You'd be extremely old school.

That's how I roll, Janet. Yeah, you could be ancient Roman old school with that. So the ring's the key. I never really. Circus tour. Yeah. I never, I never thought about the ring being the key.

So that's where the Rome and then modern got. Okay. So, and then you said for, I asked him first permanent circus building in 1769. He said PT Barnum. So again, you just answered it, right?

Astley. Rick Ashley. Rick Ashley. Yeah. Rick Ashley. Exactly.T. Barnum. So again, you just answered it, right? Astley? Rick Ashley. Rick Ashley. Yeah, Rick Ashley. Exactly. Wow. Right. Never going to give you up.

Rick Roll. Rick Roll, yeah. Yeah. I don't know what. I think I should have organized the questions better. What is a menagerie? Menagerie. Menagerie.

Menagerie is where you keep animals, right? Keep birds in cages. It is. Yes, it is. So I gave you a no on that one because you said birds. And okay, actually, I changed my vote because why not? Birds could be in a menagerie. Oh, I was referring to women, just my British.

Okay. So you got that one right. But not with women, but with women as in avies. But yeah, so it's a group of animals or even a single, usually a group of animals that is, and they're kept together, displayed, and then they travel around and people move them around. Is the animal zoo thing coming to an end? Is it almost over? Because it feels

like it sort of should be. My wife's super animal rights type of a person, but I believe society has shifted a lot that we don't want to see animals in small cages traveling from town to town away from other animals that are similar to themselves. Or does it still exist? Is it going strong? I would say that zoos have recognized that really strong sentiment culturally. And what they've tried to do is to kind of, and I shouldn't say that all zoos have done this because they certainly have not. Not the whipping brothers. They're good blokes. Yeah. But a lot of zoos are trying to create more larger spaces for animals and spaces where you're not necessarily going to be seeing them in close proximity all the time.

They have places to hide and to retreat if they need to. And this may be something borrowed from someone like P.T. Barnum a little bit, but promotion promotionally they market themselves as being like we care about conservation so we're actually on the cusp you know cutting edge of species preservation by what we're doing now a lot of people would totally disagree with that you know a lot of people would say look you know this is just captivity basically uh do you know about the moscow circus it used to tour australia a lot of people would say, look, you know, this is just captivity, basically. Do you know about the Moscow Circus that used to tour Australia a lot? So I know that there is, so there's a little Moscow Circus, and then there is like the big state circus of Russia.

Oh, no, there's a touring circus. This is just my fans. I'm doing this one. In Australia? No, no, no. You'll know in a is just my fans. I'm doing this one. In Australia? No, no, no. You'll know in a second. Do you know of an elephant called Gunter? I have heard of Gunter.

Yes, you have heard of Gunter. Gunter was around in the late 80s, early 90s, and the circus master used to get in front of Gunter and go, up, Gunter, up, and the elephant used to rise to his legs. Can you confirm that that's a real elephant? All right. I don't know. No, you've heard, Gunter, up. And the elephant used to rise to his legs. Can you confirm that that's a real elephant? All right. I don't know.

No, you've heard of Gunter. You've heard of Gunter. It was the nickname. Jim has a bit that he used to do. There you go. You can go on slide. We went and saw the Moscow Circus when I was a kid, and there was an elephant called Gunter,

and it was the big star of the show. I think Gunter was even on the poster. You get to see Gunter, and Gunter could do tricks. And we go, up, Gunter, up. My mother, she was a large-ish type of woman. And me and my brothers used to call her Gunter from that moment on. And so that was our nickname for her. And so it's a running joke through my whole thing. I still refer to her as Gunter now and she's passed away for three years. Anyway, just wanted to confirm that I wasn't bullshitting to the audience.

There was an elephant called Gunda. No, you were correctly bullying your mother. Yes, yes. We were probably doing that. Okay. What was the main attraction when the circus first took place in America? Jim said freaks, Siamese twins connected at the skull. Connected at the skull.

Herman and Sherman. And the real freaky thing was they were women and they had boys' names. Confused everyone. Back in the day, you couldn't do that. So at this point in the quiz, I was really pessimistic because things weren't going all that well. When you bring up freaks, Janet, I'm on it. All right.

Well, there's going to be a lot of time to talk about freaks. They are a big part of the circus. But at this point, they really weren't part of the show, not in the way that they become later on. And the thing is, is that at the very beginning of the circus in America, the very first circus performance happens in Philadelphia, early April 1793. Watch me break this bell. Yeah, basically. Yeah. And this guy named John Bill Ricketts, he was a great equestrian. He did trick riding and he learned his art from the rival of Philip Astley.

And so he comes over to try his luck in America, opens a little riding school in Philadelphia, and then in April of 1793 opens his first show. So my long answer is it was all about that trick horsemanship. They also had clowns. They also had rope walking and acrobatics. So those were the elements of the circus. So the guy on the back of the horse, that was the main attraction? Yeah. Back in that date, it was. I have a feeling if television was invented, the circus would have never happened. People came out to watch a guy on the back of a horse jumping around going, what else is in town?

I can't sell i can't sell tickets in fucking orlando this weekend gotta get a horse gotta get a horse yeah and so what ricketts did is that he would he there was a small boy who was part of the show and he would he would perch he would stand actually on top of ricketts shoulders and they would do what they called a flying mercury act and they'd go zooming around the ring with this boy perching on top of Ricketts' shoulders, and they would do what they called a flying mercury act. And they'd go zooming around the ring with this boy perching on top. And then Ricketts would do things like throw an orange

up in the air and then whip out his sword and catch it. So, you know, there was a lot of cool stuff. Until that little boy fell over and the jumbo trampled over him. And that's when the freaks were brought in. Just by design. They didn't want to get in the phone.

Look at Flathead the boy. Happened sooner or later. He's got rickets. He's with rickets. Yeah, that's not a last name you hear anymore. Rickets just went away. Yeah, like my friend John Gout. Exactly.

Richard Leukemia. Yeah. Okay. Dick Leukemia. Yeah, Dick Leukemia Dick Leukemia What is a tent show? Jim said when you wake up with a stiffy and when you have a circus and a tent traveling show, that was your actual answer Do you ever use the word stiffy, Janet?

Just in case you don't know what my answer was People don't use it much in America It feels very Australian using the word stiffy It's a throwback I tell you, this throwback sort of swear words. I've called someone a shithead. It really throws them. No one calls anyone a shithead anymore.

I've brought it back. What do you call them, shitties? Shut up, you shithead. See, look, it's good. Did it hurt? Stings. We use it at my house. So a tent show.

Jim's a dog riding on the back of an elephant. so what's we use it at my house so a tent show yeah Jim said dog riding on the back of an elephant no it's when a hot when a hot girl walks by you go oh she's a tent show that's what she does to you a tent show

oh my god that's a good answer too well once you decided not you know that where did I get my five points there's only about

three questions left and I'm not even close on any of these. So I'll tell you what. You actually got credit for this one. I got it. The stiffy. The stiffy answer. Because there were plenty of stiffies inside the tent, first and foremost.

And secondly, this is a traveling show. This is what tent travel comes of age in America. In 1825, a young showman from New York named Joshua Purdy Brown. He was wanting to show in Wilmington, Delaware, but the religious leaders in the community, they said, absolutely not. You're forbidden from entering the city. So he decided to set up a tent at a tavern just outside the city limits at the Cross keys tavern so this is in november november 22nd 1825 it would have been cold it was cold but guess what people came to the show they loved it and a new tradition was born and as you said this is a traveling form of entertainment

and so i gave you credit for that because that's exactly what happened. I once went to a strip club in a tent. I was at a music festival. It was a biker's convention. I was performing and they had it. Wait, where is this? It was actually an amputee biker's convention. It was in legit.

Yeah, yeah. They cut it out. No, no, no. I had the line and I got cut out. Yeah, yeah. There's the strip club. Yeah, yeah. yeah yeah they cut it out no no no they kept it because I had the line and I got cut out yeah yeah there's the strip club yeah yeah because I said

you asked me about the strip club and I go the lighting was bad and the chairs and you go so it was bad I go no it's pretty good

yeah it's pretty good yeah because what it was was it was an amputee bikers convention-y type of thing out there with a few men and so I went on stage

it was the only time I stopped talking and just walked off stage I started stuttering because my opening joke was I walk out, they're all in wheelchairs and stuff. I go, hey, motorcycles, they cost an arm and a leg. And oh, God. I never said anything more dumb in my life.

And a can gets thrown. And then I just walked off the stage. Anyway, they had a strip club tent and it was a hot day, but it's still England. So it probably rained the day before or something. And so you go into like, it's just, you know, it's tarpaulin material, just like stuff you'd cover your car in the winter with, you know.

And they had little booths there. And I went in to have my lap dance and you're basically sitting in like a school chair, just like a plastic moulded seat with like the thing. I'm sitting there. The girl gets on and straddles me on the lap dance and my fucking, the legs of the chair sink into the dirt because it's England. It's been wet.

And I'm getting lower and lower. I said, all right, hang on a bit. Just get off me for a second. I propped it up and tried to get more tension on the legs. Anyway, I probably had about three lap dances or something. It was just something else to fill the day and I couldn't go back out and see the legless bikers. They were all angry with me. So I tried to stay in the tent as long as possible. That's another tent show.

The Stiffies. The Stiffies. What a name for a band. Why isn't anyone being called the Stiffies? There might be. I don't know the answer for you. So how did the circus travel from town to town Jim said trains there's always a giraffe I get it I get a point why is there always a giraffe what a giraffe oh so that's something that

comes a lot later but you're on to something there because a lot of shows would I mean so this is more of an 1890s thing with giraffes and they oftentimes they they were hard to keep in captivity. But sometimes they yeah, they would always be part of the advertising, but sometimes they would not be seen all that well. So as far as, you know, being available on display.

And so giraffes, you know, big, anticipating jumbo a little bit too, but because you could build a cart so that the head sticks out as an extra special thing. So it was all just part of spectacle. So there were giraffes sticking out. That wasn't just a thing we saw in movies. That did happen. They did have that.

Now, on the train, it would be pretty tough. I mean, couldn't travel very fast with that kind of action, but mostly they would be not sticking their heads out. But that was something that on the wagons especially, they would design them so that when they're parading, they could stick. Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. River Phoenix goes and he gets chased after,

saving the cross that needs to be in a museum. Of course it does. You're right, Indiana. And he gets in the train, he goes through the carriages, and there's a carriage with a rhino that starts sticking his horn up through. Never seen a fucking rhino in the zoo. I'm just saying maybe Indiana Jones films are partially made up. And there was also, what was the deal with he falls in the carriage and it's fucking just, it's filled with snakes.

I've never seen that many snakes in a fucking zoo. Also, then he gets fearful of snakes because he falls in the snakes. If anything, it would make you more confident of snakes because none of these snakes bit him and he got out. I would be like around snakes all day. So where's his fear of snakes coming from? What I'm trying to say is was that a real thing?

Well, okay, so late in the 19th century. You don't have to answer this, Janet, but you can if you want. Oh, sorry. It's not for this podcast, Janet but you can if you want. Oh, sorry. It's not for this podcast, Janet. It's not for this podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, stop. Go ahead and answer it. No, no. I was going to take it right back to the circus, but take it back to Indiana Jones. Okay. Were there lots of snakes? Were there ever a rhino?

Is there a magic box that you can go into that collapses and then you run to the back of the train? Quick question. I don't know about the magic box, no. I'm going to say no to the magic box, but I'm going to say yes to the snakes and yes to the rhino because in the later 19th century, a lot of these circuses were basically taking um part in the process of colonization and africa and in asia and a lot of shows were importing animals that were part of these you know imperial exercises

and explorers who were cataloging different animals yeah you probably would have had what snake charmers yeah but not with 200 snakes. You'd just have his one snake that he'd bring in a basket. I don't know. Not my charmer. No, that's right. That's right. That's right.

There would just be a single snake usually. And the thing is, snake charming was not a skilled job at the circus. So a lot of the show managers' wives would step in and be snake charmers on the show that's what they call me so i thought they called you a snake warmer anyway so so when they when they did when they did the shows and you got monkeys and you got horses and you got how many times or is there any documented events of a monkey just running into the crowd and ripping someone's face off or something similar rhino going fucking someone up or something like that yeah yeah so elephants sometimes ran amok if they you know they sometimes would be suffering from illnesses or just psychologically had had enough of it and they they would literally charge away, trample a keeper,

and in the words of a circus newspaper, take possession of a town. And so in these instances, it could be very dangerous, and most of all for the elephant, quite honestly, because oftentimes these events led to their death. And what I'm learning is that the portrayal of circuses in movies is accurate because that always happens in the movies too. An elephant runs in the town.

They're like, we got a kid and it's taking over the town. I'm like, that's bullshit, but it's what's happening. The elephants go bananas. P.T. Barnum. What? You want to ask him? What was the thing where I said the tent burnt down? I reckon I'm right on that question.

We're getting there. PT Barnum, though. Jim said he's a great self-promoter. Hey, man, we haven't talked about him yet. So when does he come into play? Yeah. So PT Barnum is, I mean, I gave you credit for that because you said he was a promoter. And the thing is, is that he, that is his greatest contribution

to the whole business of circus is that he was incredible with advertising. He actually comes to the circus late in his career. He starts out in the 1830s and has all sorts of, kind of makes money off of hoaxes. He actually, so he's a real paradoxical guy. Like he's both a slave owner at one point in his life and later an abolitionist. So in 1835, he actually purchases an elderly African-American woman joyce hath and he takes her on exhibition and he bills her as the 161 year old nursemaid of george washington how do you enslave a hundred year old woman and still make her work like bloody hell it's fucking never ending it's horrible yeah and she was she was probably around 80 which is still really really old back then is really old yeah really

old yeah yeah and really horrifying you know i mean just from all of you know all 80 year olds well no but anyway so yeah we smell the old so oh my gosh I'd like to apologize to all of our elderly listeners you can't download a podcast

you don't know what you're doing my dad deleted all the apps on his phone because whenever he touches he does it like

a push down button and he just holds it like that until it starts wobbling and then goes, press it again. I've deleted another app. So P.T. Barnum had this one exhibit that, you know. Yeah. So what happened then is that she was you know, she was enslaved for a whole year and she passed away. And so what does Barnum do?

He stages an autopsy like a spectacle autopsy. So it's just this kind of horrifying thing. And the autopsy, the doctors, you know, they say, well, she was probably 80 years old. She was not 161. You know, of course, everyone knew that. But Barnum would, you know, he profited from essentially, you know, hoaxes. And in 1841, he actually buys a museum, calls it the American Museum. And it becomes kind of this and it's in New York City.

And it becomes this place where he exhibits all sorts of people. He exhibits animals. He exhibits beluga whales in tanks down in the basement. I mean, it's just it's kind of a wild thing. And he also stages plays. In 1847, he kind of receives the gospel of temperance and decides that's it. I'm not drinking anymore anymore and then there's temperance plays at the american museum and so like he's also putting huge banners on the sides of the building he would say like you know he would have all these little kind of uh entrees into the building like this way to the egress and so people be like wow what's the egress that's so cool and they would go through it and you know what would happen

they would leave the building and if they wanted to come back they had to pay again so if he was alive today he would be president is what you're saying yeah you say he's a complex man i I haven't heard anything good about him. He ripped people off. He enslaved them. He had whales in his basement. He had plays. I assume all the plays had to involve having a whale as a backdrop.

Whenever someone was writing the script, just make sure there's a whale in the backdrop. This is going to be difficult. This one's set in the desert. Just do it. Yeah. So the complexity comes a little later in his life when he becomes an abolitionist, he becomes a Lincoln Republican, he becomes a politician,

actually. So a lot of, of course, and I won't, you know, I won't bring it up to the present with this stuff, but, you know, there've been comparisons made certainly in terms of entertainers and politics. But he becomes a state representative. And as a state representative in 1865, he makes a very passionate speech in support of the 13th Amendment and is part of the ratification process for the state of Connecticut. So he's like Darth Vader. He comes good at the end. Yeah, that's kind of it. They didn't have Twitter back then. Otherwise, they would have scrolled back. Did you have a woman in a cage?

Like, that was 161 years old. That was amazing. She was 80. Yeah. If they had social media, PT Barnum was fine. Hey, it's like, hello. Hey. No slavery. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, Lincoln. Lincoln's a good guy.

Did you cut up a woman? We've all made mistakes. Yeah. Well, your basement different. Yeah. And a whole lot of other animals,

too. And he also he's the person who really invents what we think of as the modern sideshow or freak show. So at the American Museum, that's where a lot of people are employed who are billed as freaks. Have I told the story about the Jim Rose freak show thing?

Oh, tell it. So I was performing at the Edinburgh Festival, and the Jim Rose freak show was on in the same room as me. They were the show before me, right? And so they had like Mr. Lifto is a bloke who's got all these piercings in his body. He can lift up pounds and pounds of weight from a hook in his penis. It's quite a show.

Then Jim Rose comes out and he eats a bit of glass, like smashes a light bulb and he eats it. People covered in tattoos, et cetera. And so I would hang out with the freaks, but some of them were just people that Jim had met and just gone, do you want to be in my show and I'll teach you how to do a few tricks? So there was a girl there. She was a bit of a hipster sort of girl from New York. And because my show was on straight after theirs, we had the same dressing room. So I would see them as I was entering in and they'd finish their show

and I'd chat to them a bit and then I'd go and do my show. And so I actually saw their show a couple of times because I sat in the audience and just watched it. And there was this girl who shoved paint balloons up her anus and then she farted out a Jackson Pollock-y type painting. And then I think she put a pen in the other hole and she signed the painting. Anyway, I was in love.

So I would chat to this girl after every show and I was trying my best and then I just thought she was so cute and she was all like sort of free with a body fart and out paint and whatnot. I thought, what a cool person. And then I asked her out and she was like, no. And then Jim Rose said, man, she just thinks she's out of your league. I was like, she fucking farts paintings, man.

Like my self-esteem was already pretty bad back in the day, and I'm like, the paint farter thought I wasn't good enough, that I wasn't going anywhere with my career. Oh, where are you now, fart lady? She's Banksy. She's Banksy. Jack, crushing the day, Jack. Thank you for us. But the Jim Ray Jim Rose circus that's like the modern

days there's Mr. Lifto what was the other one but have you ever seen this is a circus act have you ever seen Mr. Methane no I haven't I've seen the Jim Rose sideshow but I don't know Mr. Methane he doesn't need a sideshow he's got his own show

he's bloody good he's a man who can fart on thing what he does but I don't know Mr. Meathen. Mr. Meathen, he doesn't need a sideshow. He's got his own show. He's bloody good. He's a man who can fart on things. What he does is he lays on his back in a superhero outfit. He's a guy from Yorkshire, I believe, the north of England, and he lays back and he pulls his leg back and he farts and then he puts talcum powder. He has a dwarf, if I remember, comes out and sprays talcum powder on the table and then he farts the talcum powder onto the...

Anyway, you've never seen a show like it. It's wonderful. And he's tuned his farts so that he can play songs. I think it was some Scandinavian country let him come into their parliament and fart their national anthem. Oh, he's a hell of a show. Someone check if Mr. Methane's still gigging. And if he comes to town, I'm getting you all tickets.

I feel like luis is going to be doing this later with his brothers the circus sounds like jackass there was great there was a guy at the uh adelaide french festival and his name was prick casso and he painted with his dick naked yeah mr mr methane was on uh america's got talent britain's got talent sorry is that what you said wait no he's been around for years. He would have gone on the time. Simon Cowell was not impressed with him. The problem with this to me thing is it's not a show you keep going to.

You see it once and you go, I get what happens there. But it bloody is a hell of a fun. Jack, you'd love it. It sounds right up your alleyway, Jack. Okay. Religion. We talked about religion and that was the when he put the tents outside the town. Some of the work we haven't gone through a lot of his questions.

We're going to have to go through them a little bit quicker, but we'll see. Not too quick. How are women treated in the circus? Too well, if you ask me. Then Jim was kidding. Women weren't treated well because history. They're not treated well. So were they treated badly in the circus?

Well, that one was really more on the no side um surprisingly because um so women were with circuses in america really right from the beginning i mean so john bill ricketts performs in 1793. The next year, he actually hires an American lady to perform in his circus as an equestrian. And women remain in the shows really subsequently. But the thing that happens is that with the Second Great Awakening, this kind of era of religious fervor in America, Protestant revival camp meetings, and intense too, actually. This kind of religiosity leads to some places saying, no, we are not letting the circus come to town because there are women who are displaying their bodies for pay. They're wearing scant costumes, and it's all about sex. And then there's people drinking all over the place. And then there's people doing whatever on the show lot and stealing and

fighting and, you know, doing any number of things. And so they banned the circus. So women, interestingly, in this period, some shows that we have no women and they still did, you know would advertise themselves that way just to appease local politicians and local religious leaders. But and so like Vermont and actually Connecticut, home to P.T. Barnum, banned the circus in the antebellum era. So and then there were little communities that did, too. And women being part of the show was a huge part of that. in the antebellum era. So, and then there were little communities that did too. And women being part of the show was a huge part of that.

And that was, that was the adult entertainment and they had to shift. That was a whole religion. The bearded ladies, were they, were they always real, real beards or they stuck them on? You know, they usually were pretty real.

Yeah. Like Annie Jones, she was, she was legit. And the thing is, is that in marketing shows, the... Or was it just like Forrest and they put a fake Bastille on him? You could be a bearded lady. Oh, I didn't know you were talking about me. I thought you were talking about an actual forest. I didn't know what was going on.

I imagine if you're a woman and you're looking in the mirror and you're growing a beard, your first thought is, first thought isn't, ooh, I could make a bit of money off this. Well, now it is. What a gift I've been given. I don't think they made a lot of money, the bearded ladies. Oh, yeah, they were in Forbes top 100. More rag, the bearded lady.

All right, let's try and get through some questions. We're lagging. We've got to pick it up. Oh, sorry, sorry. No, it's okay. He gets very angry. Well, I want. We got to pick it up. Oh, sorry. It's okay. He gets very angry. Well, I want to get through all the questions. 1859, Jules Lyotard

was the first to do this at the Cirque Napoleon in Paris. Jim said tightrope walker. Okay, so he said that and I wrote a big fat no on the paper, but then he said trapeze. it's all high with a net there you go first trapeze

okay and then what happened at Ringling Brothers and Barnum and Bailey Circus at Hartford Connecticut on July 6 1944 he said fire and they all died you know what okay half credit on that one there was a fire and it was really really horrible.

167, possibly 169 people died in that fire. There were 7000 people at the circus that day. And the show Ringling Brothers, Barnum and Bailey had used a combination of paraffin dissolved in gasoline to waterproof the tent. And so you can imagine how fireproof that was. I can't believe there weren't more fires at the circus. Gasoline tents. Back in the day when everyone was sitting on wooden benches, smoking cigarettes openly around bales of hay inside a cotton building.

It's not a fire. I can't believe a fire would even happen. You can't smoke on a bloody plane. That thing's never going to set alight, you know? Yeah, yeah. And fire was pretty common, so I will just add to that. And then imagine when the fire came out, there was like a dinky little fire truck came out

and 17 clowns fell out of it, squirting water in their faces. Just from their flowers. So very fast, what happened with Hartford was once they saw, once the circus people saw the flames starting in a corner, Merle Evans, who was the band leader, he immediately began playing Stars and Stripes Forever, which is a danger song. This is John Philip Sousa.

And when that tune gets started, that means get the hell out of there. Really? I imagine small people dancing. No. And the problem was, okay, so the Walenda family,

the high wire walkers, they were working at that time, but the previous act, which was a you know it was really rough and several circus employees were actually um tried and then one you know some people spent some time in prison for negligence wait wait i mean i've performed in front of 7 000 people before that's a lot of people how big was this tent like even in the round that's a that's a shit ton of people it It is a shit ton of people. And the tent was pretty big, but, you know, it was not. I mean, so in my kind of my opinion about all of this,

I mean, it's a horror what happened. But at the same time, I am amazed that people, most people were able to get out. So Jumbo the Clown, why was he called Jumbo if he wasn't big? And what was he allowed to drink? Oh, he was a clown. I thought he was an elephant. Jumbo the Elephant. Sorry. Jumbo the Clown, why was he called Jumbo if he wasn't big? And what was he allowed to drink? Oh, he was a clown? I thought he was an elephant. Jumbo the Elephant.

Sorry. Jumbo the Elephant. Jumbo the Elephant changes everything. Sorry. Jumbo the Elephant. He wasn't big, but his name was Jumbo. Why is that? And then what was he allowed to drink?

One to two gallons of once in a while. So I have to confess that my audio cut out for a moment. So I did not hear. I said whatever you're about to say. Now J out for a moment. So I did. I said whatever you're about to say. Now, Jumbo. OK, Jumbo. Why was he called Jumbo if he wasn't big? And what did he drink?

So he was small. He was on the small side when he was captured in Abyssinia. And he grew to be a very big, big elephant. He was around 10 feet tall, which is really huge. Barnum claimed that he was 12 feet tall, but he really was a little

smaller than that. But what he drank, Matthew Scott was his keeper and they had a very close bond. And Scott would give him whiskey. Two gallons of whiskey whiskey two gallons of whiskey two gallons of whiskey yeah but if you want

we remember that alcohol episode that's how much people were drinking in the day back then oh my gosh so he was called Jumbo when he was small but that meant something else and then so when he got big then his name was Jumbo but now that's why we think the word Jumbo

means big because of this elephant oh that's where the word Jumbo came from yeah it totally is I hear that Shamu the whale when it was small was called Shamiao it comes from the Swahili word Jumbe Jumbe which means chief

so the reason we think Jumbo means big is because of this elephant yep exactly yeah i would have thought the same thing you said yeah it's big makes perfect sense yeah yeah makes perfect sense but that's that's that's right and and when he came to the united states from the london um Zoological Garden where he had been kept for a long time. It was a huge sensation. I mean, there were people lining New York City and the harbor to see him as he got off this ship, you know, after a long voyage. Get the telly, man. I hear there's a big elephant coming.

I'm going to get drunk on whiskey and stand on the shore. Well, you know, so that's the thing. And to see the elephant is kind of a lexicon. You know, it's a phrase in American language about that awe of seeing an elephant for the first time. And it became a synonym for going into battle. Then why did no one want to talk about him when they're in the room? for going into battle. Then why did no one want to talk about them when they're in the room?

Did you like that one, Forrest? Thanks for being here, Janet. Okay. I thought that was a solid joke. You're all not fucking giving me the love I deserve. That was a great joke. I was just being funny. Just trying to make entertainment. What is a funambulist?

You said you overdose on drugs and on the way to the hospital you're feeling better. A funambulist is a tightrope walker. It's not that fun, is it? Yeah. Well,

you watch him. After you've seen it for a bit, you're like, it's all right. Get rid of the pole and then you got my attention. What pole? You know when they hold the pole to balance?

Yeah. So you think that's not a big deal? You can do it? The guy who did it between the Twin Towers, he was pretty good. Yeah. In that documentary, he was pretty good. Pretty good? Was that well enough?

He was better at it than me. No, no. It was a French. It was a French wire walker. Yeah. And then afterwards he goes, and then I met the woman and we met love.

And I had done pleasures of the flesh after pleasure of the soul. Bloody French people. When was Ringling Brothers Circus created and how many of the brothers were included in the creation?

Jim said three brothers in the 20s. So the Ringling Brothers,cus created and how many of the brothers were included in the creation? Jim said three brothers in the 20s. So the Ringling Brothers, they created their circus in 1884 and there were five of them. There were seven brothers total and then a sister, but five were involved in the creation of their

show. Like the Jacksons. Yeah, very much like that. Absolutely. Adult entertainment. We talked about that who's responsible for the greatest show on earth tagline jim said pt barnum he's got it yeah that's your point that's one of your points right there yeah um and clown college he said it started in the 50s um people came back from war i don't know why you said that. Because they needed cheering up. The Second World War had just ended and people needed a laugh. Wrong?

Yeah. So 1968 was when Clown College was created. What was the first clown? Was it an accident? Was it just like a person who just did their makeup really shitty and had lost a lot of weight so their clothes looked all fitting? Had their dad's shoes. Well, so clowning is tied to the history of, you know,

court jesters and pantomime and all that. So, yeah, you know, they've been around for a long time. And one of the places that they did a lot of work and actually a lot of circus performers who joined the shows back in the very, very early modern Europe era, they would work at these seasonal fairs. So there'd be like feast days and fairs. And as the fairs started closing down, well, they were kind of without work and so once philip astley opens his his circus basically um in 1768 onward that's where a lot of these folks start getting jobs me and forrest really really are modern day court jesters that's what we do for a living i often i often think about this but i have thought about this if i was back in the day i

don't know if i would have been a good cook. I know Forrest wouldn't have been too low key. Forrest would come out and like the- No, but I'm fat. You just throw stuff at me. Oh, yeah. That's one of those skills. Yeah, you would have been a good guy in a duck tank.

Yeah, throw that in. But you would have come out, the king's unhappy. Yeah. He's like, never mind. Turkey legs, am I right? Tell the king, join the club. Okay. What toy company bought the circus in 1971?

Jim said Mattel. Correct. Nice. You got another point. All right. Yeah. And then here near the end, we're talking about, this is what did Ringling Brothers and Barnum & Bailey

eliminate from their show starting in 2016? Jim said, aren't the Germans fun people song? Did it affect ticket sales? Yes, a lot of Germans support it. Was it 2016? Oh, I thought you were saying 1916. No, I said 2016.

I changed my answer. Animals, animals. I got rid of animals. All the animals? Yeah. What happened in 2016? Well, okay. What you just said is very close to the mark. They got rid of animals. All the animals? What happened in 2016? Well, okay. What you just said is very close to the mark. They got rid of their elephants. They retired all the elephants. Did they retire them? Well, okay. So what they did

Send them off to a paddock where they could run around happy with other elephants. They went to go buy cigarettes. There was a very nice facility down in Florida where they kept them. Called Joe Exotic Zoo. No, no. It's the other one. What's her name? Oh, who's the other one? facility down in Florida where they kept them. Called Joe Exotic Zoo. No, no, it's the other one. What's her name? Oh, who's the other one?

She was in Florida. Oh, right. Carol Baskin. Carol Baskin. Yeah, bitch. Carol Baskin. She's got all the elephants. Well, so they went to this place that was owned by the circus.

And then once the Feld family decided to shut down the circus in 2017, then they dissolved it and sold all the elephants. Do you consider Cirque du Soleil to be a circus? Because that's not always in the circle though. Like some of the love show is, but the other ones are on a stage and all that type of stuff. You know what I mean? Yeah, I totally do. I mean, I'm very, I'm pretty ecumenical about what a circus is because I think that like if there's stage show elements and it's a multi-act show, I'm fine calling it a circus. And I think Cirque du Soleil is definitely a circus.

What's the greatest circus you've ever seen? Oh, my gosh. You know, probably, I mean, for sheer skill, I would have to say that some of those Cirque performers are pretty amazing. They're amazing. They're amazing. And you know what?

Whenever I look at Cirque du Soleil and they're all swinging around, they're holding on to each other, let's be honest, they're all athletes, they're all Russian gymnasts and stuff like that. Yeah. They're all young. They're all athletes they're all ex russian gymnasts and stuff like that yeah they're all young they're all they're all fucking each other at one stage or another they're all fucking each other and then you're responsible for not dropping this person like like she's she's off fucking that acrobat she was your girlfriend a week ago and you're like i could oh you know it

just seems like of course there's gonna be got to be. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'll catch him, Andy. That's all I think. I think that person might hate that person. That person might, you know, it seems very, or you might get moved to a different show. You might think, oh, I'm in a good show here. This show will never end. The Michael Jackson Cirque du Soleil show.

And then finally, Leaving Neverland comes on. You're like, oh, God, I'm trying to get over that Beatles love thing till we find out what Paul McCartney really did. If you were in the circus today, what would your act be? I'd be that guy at Cirque du Soleil who goes around and bothers people as they're trying to get in their seats. You know that? Yeah, but he sort of comes in and he goes,

then he just gets a bit of confetti and chucks it in someone's face. And then he just walks off like a drunk. I'd do that anyway. Forrest, what would your act be? Tight wire. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'd like to see him swinging around in a thing. A human wrecking ball.

Well, you're going to have to pay a lot of money. It's Vegas. He's only doing one show and then it's over. Here comes the wrecking ball. And they stack up like a whole lot of cardboard boxes and Forrest bashes through them. Let's see if you can do tires. I would do that.

If I had like a suit too, I'd do it. This is the Kool-Aid man. All right, let's write that up. What would you do, Kelly? I can do the human pretzel. I'd just do that in the middle of the stage. What's the human pretzel? Where you put your legs.

You can put them behind your head and connect them. Contortionist. Yeah, that's what she calls it. Is there music or something on that? No. It's just moaning. Normally Barry White's in the background. Barry White, I went to see him in concert.

He's the godfather of love. He was sweating so fucking hard. He came out and sat in a stool the whole time, and then like, let's talk about making love. And I was like, fucking hell, dude, you'll be lucky to make it off the stage. Did eliminating elephants from the circus affect the ticket sales, though? It did.

You know, so the thing is, there still was a very sizable contingent of circus fans who wanted them there. So it definitely did. In modern day. To this day, these people are like, I'm not going anymore. They don't have the elephants. I was much better back in the day. They used to whip the elephants and the kids would scream with joy.

Wonderful. Why is it that accent? Because whenever I talk about miserable people, I do Northern England. I do that with my son now. I just go like this. I go, I always talk to him in a Northern accent like he's meant to be, like he's five months old.

So I always go, Charlie, it's your father. By your age, I was working down mine not sitting around here dribbling myself like you i was contributing my wife hates when i do that because she goes oh he'll that'll seep into him don't listen to your mother she's never loved you she's never loved anything but herself you know i do that all day he's just the bastard character I do in the house, but I hide it with his accent, so it's not me. It's cute, mate. Well, now this is a part of our show called Dinner Party Facts. We ask our expert to give us a fact that's obscure,

interesting that our listeners or viewers can use to impress people at a dinner party or a bar or wherever. Yeah. I feel like Forrest hasn't been invited to a dinner party in a while and he's feeling a bit bad or a bar or whatever or someone could just say it to you over the phone I'm fine I can read it on the internet by myself

I've got a single TV dinner Green Chef what do you got Janet okay I really struggled with this one because I have so many little factoids that I love so much. However, I'm going to say that Tinkerbell at Disneyland. She was a burlesque dancer as a live performer. This is Tiny Klein.

She hung by her teeth at the circus but before that she worked in burlesque joints and when she was 70 years old she became disneyland's first tinkerbell and she would climb the matterhorn every night suit up and zip line across disneyland and a light sleeping beauty's castle. She'd wave her little hand. Wait a minute, because they have a little animated Tinkerbell now that goes over the castle in the fireworks show. They had a real person.

Quick question. Did Disney ask her to do this? Or is she just an old lady with dementia who used to go out there? I'm a fairy. There you go, kid. She has a bit of fun. She's been on that cable for you. We think she's been dead for four years. She just goes

back and forth, back and forth. Little bear. I always fancied out of all the... Tinkerbell's my favourite. She's only little, you know, got wings, just anything that makes my cock look bigger.

So that, so they modeled it. So the Tinkerbell today is modeled after that same woman though. Like I guess when she was younger and at 70 or. Well, I mean, so there was a character in the jam, Barry,

you know, in the, in the story originally about little tiny Tinkerbell. But so. Oh, I see. The thing is though, is that the, you know, the icon that you see on TV when you see that blur of light going over the castle, that's what was going on. So that's where you see this 70,

70 year old burlesque dancer person who hangs by her teeth. That's where you see this 70-year-old burlesque dancer person who hangs by her teeth. That's her. So this was the same one that went across Times Square, right? So, yeah, she sent me a video of her hanging from her teeth across a wire across Times Square. But dental plans back then weren't that good, especially with the elderly.

Most people had fucking dentures. I just don't get how, like, she must have brushed good. Always flossed. Yeah, always flossed. But it's like Walt Disney, when he went maybe younger girls went, hey, I could do the Tinkerbell job. Nah, I got a bird who can do it.

She's good. She'll be good for another 30 years. We won't be needing one of them for a while. I've got another 80 year old bird a while. Yeah. So I got another 80 year old bird lined up for Orlando. So that is one of your books. I didn't even know

that when I read Tiny Cline, Circus Queen and Tinkerbell, the memoir of Tiny Cline, the Circus Age, Culture and Society under the American Big Top

and the Gospel of Kindness, Animal Welfare and the Making of Modern America. Those are all available like we said on Amazon. Janet Davis is the author and the making of modern America. Those are all available. Like we said, on Amazon, Janet Davis is the author and she's our guest. Thanks for being here today. Thanks for being here. Thank you so much. Thank you. It was so much fun.

I really appreciate it. Ladies and gentlemen, if, if you, if you're ever at a party and someone walks up to you and goes, you know, Tinkerbell was in his sixties going, I don't know about that. Good night, Australia. you know how Tinkerbell was in his 60s going I don't know about that walk away goodnight Australia