I Don't Know About That - The Dark Web

Episode Date: July 20, 2021

In this episode, the team discusses the dark web with lawyer, freelance journalist, and author of "Silk Road" and "The Darkest Web", Eileen Ormsby. Follow Eileen Ormsby on Twitter @EileenOrmsby. Go to EileenOrmsby.com to learn more. Go to JimJefferies.com to buy tickets to Jim's upcoming tour, The Moist Tour.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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go to keeps.com slash idk to receive your first month of treatment for free. That's keeps.com slash idk to get your first month free. keeps.com slash idk Denver. Bob Denver. John Denver. Which one was on Gilligan's Island? Well, you might find out, and I don't know about that,

with Jim Jefferies. Does anyone know? I don't know who Bob Denver is. It wasn't the city because the city's landlocked. Oh, right, right, right. They couldn't have been on an island. Process of elimination there, yeah. John Denver sang folk songs. So they couldn't have been on an island. Process of elimination there. John Denver sang folk songs.

So Bob Denver. Bob Denver was Gilligan. I've never heard of him. He's Gilligan. You've heard of Gilligan? Yeah, of course. You've seen a Gilligan. I thought that was his real name. What about Jimmy Denver?

You thought Gilligan's Island was a documentary? Yeah, the first reality show. You used to watch it as a kid like this going, how did Ginger have so many dresses? She was on a three-hour tour. Why did she bring 50 ball gowns? Bitches be shopping. Yeah, yeah.

She's a movie star. She's a movie star that decided to go on a three-hour tour with strangers. Now, I've met some movie stars in my day. They don't like hanging out with the general populace in that type of arena. I'm going to go on a boat cruise. The kind of thing that George Clooney at the moment is they're plugging a thing on Instagram with George Clooney is going,

um, come and stay in Italy with me and my wife on our Italian villa. You know what I mean? Yeah. The ad is with Byron Bowers is a con, you know, Byron he's in the movie with George Clooney, but yeah,

that's like every celebrity is in Italy right now. Is Italy doing like a tourism campaign or something? I think Italy's probably. If anyone has herd immunity, it's Italy. They got hit so hard by COVID, they're probably just like anything to get people there. But everybody is there. So yeah, if you win that prize,

do you imagine the Cloonies are excited? Yeah. You reckon they're like, oh, good. Make up the guest room. Yeah, they'd put you in a hotel down the road and you'd pop over for lunch, wouldn't you? You wouldn't stay there the whole time. No. It wouldn't be like George is in bed and he hears you going down to the toilet.

You have to come out and go, George, which way is the shower work? It goes too hot and too cold very quickly. I just got back from Australia. The tour was fantastic. It was unbelievable. Australia, the tour was fantastic. It was unbelievable. If anyone wants any Jim Jefferies Australian tour 2021 merchandise,

I have some. I have some in stock. None of it really moved. I've got tour jackets. The tour was called off because of COVID, and they've still got some problems with COVID in Australia. When I say problems, nothing like here in America, but problems for them.

They're getting like 100 cases a day or something like that. So what happened was we were doing like a travel documentary as well while we were there, and it started off like, here we go, we're going to see Australia. We went into quarantine for two weeks, and we did a podcast with me from the bed, which I read one comment, and the one comment was that it was disrespectful. I did it from the bed. I didn't have an office in my room.

Also, it's a fucking free podcast. Yeah, they've got to listen to the ads they said how dare you like that's the worst thing you've ever done was podcast from your bed oh god before we put put visuals on this podcast i used to masturbate during them and no one knew the fucking sometimes you still do yeah that's why we need a front on these tables. Anyway, I got my legs out, you see. Anyway, so the tour never really, it didn't happen. And then the tourism thing was like, okay, we'll do Sydney and then we'll do Melbourne and then we'll do the Outback and then we'll do this.

And then it was like we were locked in Sydney. We were filming things. And it was like we were locked in a third of Sydney. We weren't even allowed to leave our little area we were in. And at one stage we were staying in James Packer's Crown Tower Casino, which because everyone was quarantined, no one was allowed to be walking the streets or anything. There was police out trying to get people if they were outside. You could go out for one hour of exercise. So if you did want to leave the house, you had to have shorts on to pull it off. You couldn't be

in jeans going, I'm exercising. So sports apparel was the way you were allowed out for an hour. Wow. But at one stage, me, Amos, and my wife were the only three people in the biggest hotel in Sydney. Wow. And it was eerie because the staff all had to show up because you could still go to work, right? And we'd come down to the lobby and they'd all sort of prep up like,

oh, they're here. The three people are here. But then they started doing things like they tried to utilize their time, like, all right, drain the pool and clean it, fucking buff all the marble floors. So it was like we were in a construction site. But they were very nice to us at the hotel. And so thank you for having us for the extra two weeks

because we couldn't travel or anything like that. And what did you lot get up to? While you were gone? Yeah. Imagine a lot of crying. Fixing your AC. Oh, you fixed my AC. It turns out that AC filters

are meant to be changed every two months. Two months? Yeah. It depends on your filter. Some are one month, some are three months. Some are six months.

He didn't change his in three years. Why would anybody? And my air conditioner made like a funky noise. And it was just trying to get through all the fucking dust. I was talking to you and I said, when's the last time you changed your filter? And you're like, what? What? What filter? That's not good.

When I opened the bed, a fucking carpet fell down on me. It's good to see how I keep the bed, a fucking carpet fell down on me. Yeah, it's good. That's how I keep me hair looking full. I turned 35. Jack turned 26. You turned 35? Wow. Was that good?

Yeah, it was good. What was your best gift? The Cubs game from you. Ah, you're welcome. I did do that for you. And they pitched no hitter. Yeah, it was an amazing game. Thank you for those tickets.

And then they lost like nine in a row after that. So that was nice. The game that I was at was great. So that's all I care about. Where'd you get your 26, Jack? It was your birthday just the other day. I got this cool shirt from Dan Flashes. Dan Flashes.

The patterns. It's overlapping. Yeah, yeah. The more expensive, the more detailed the pattern, the more expensive the shirt. That's right. There's one shirt that's so wild it costs $1,000. Yeah.

Who got you that? My dad did. Your dad? He sold me three. Did he say it was from Dan Flash's? Yeah. Wow, that works quick, doesn't he? Because I think I should leave season two has been out for about three weeks and you've already got a Dan Flash's shirt. I don't think people know what we're even talking about.

You're just assuming everyone's seen that show. That's why I said I want to kill myself. I don't want to be around anymore. No, no, no. She wasn't quoting the show. I wasn't quoting the show. Oh, I see. I'm still going.

What else you got? Don't ruin it for people. Yeah, what is it called? I always get the name wrong. I think you should leave. Season two, Netflix. Watch it. I love it.

Other people seem to look warm on it. I preferred season one, but there was still a couple of sketches in this season that were dynamite. The first three episodes of season two are killer. Yeah.

I feel like there are some moments and some sketches that are really insanely funny, and then the rest of it, I'm like, I want this to be done. Yeah. It's a little too extreme all the time. I didn't like the wet steaks. Jack liked the wet steaks.

Jack liked every single moment. I liked all of it. Yeah, Jack was super high, and he rang me up, and he was't like the wet steaks. Jack liked the wet steaks. Jack liked every single moment. Yeah, Jack was super high and he rang me up and he was just like a kid at Christmas. Just like, this is the best. This is the best.

I'm so coy to him. He's like, I don't like that sketch. I'm like, oh, okay. I'm sure Tim Robinson appreciates all the promos, but I have a show coming up

that I'd like to promote. Okay. August 18th. Woo! I didn't even say where it's at yet August 18th. Woo! I didn't even say where it's at yet. San Diego. Woo!

At the Great American Comedy Club. Just the American Comedy Club. The Great one. But it is great. It's the average American comedy club.

It's a bigger club than Modern Forest. At the American Comedy Club. The pretty good American comedy club. It's Wednesday, August 18th.

It just went on sale, but they've already slashed prices for some reason. We just remembered it's Forest. $5. They have, August 18th. It just went on sale, but they've already slashed prices for some reasons. We just remembered it's Forrest. $5. They have $20 up there

and they're like, $10. We just posted it. It's like, you know, like, $10. Guys,

if you're in San Diego, August 18th at 8pm, please, and you can, there's a link in my Instagram, Forrest with two R's Shaw. Go follow me on there

and link in there. Please, please come out if you're there in any area. Any podcast listeners for us will give a handjob too if you come to the show.

I got a couple of the plug. I got extra shows in Minneapolis. Where else I got, Jack? Minneapolis. San Francisco and Los Angeles. Los Angeles. And there's one other town,

I believe. No? It's just us three. That's all the ones that we're selling well. There's extra shows put on for you people. We weren't expecting to put extra shows,

so thank you very much for coming out and buying tickets. I didn't know how it would go with COVID and all that type of stuff for the people to be ready to come out again. You know, with the Delta. Jesus Christ. We have to put masks back on indoors in LA now. Really? Does my Delta SkyMiles help me in any way?

I don't think so. No, they don't help defend. All these brands like Corona and Delta where they're just naming. Corona's sales went through the roof. Really? Oh, yeah, maybe. Corona just means crown, I think. I reckon we're only a step away from these being sponsored.

The Pepsi variant. Bud Light Seltzer. The next pandemic sponsored by Miller Lite. Alright, so let's start the podcast. Let's do it. But with ads. With ads.

Yeah, that's why I should be more respectful. You have to listen to the fucking ads. But these are our sponsors. How dare you. Have you been watching the Tour de France no have you

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I've got this one bloke that I know, very happy fella. Doesn't really need it. Maybe he goes to therapy. But you don't know, baby. He probably goes to therapy. And, you know, everyone's just the tip of the iceberg. We don't know what's going on underneath with people, right? Therapy.

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Especially because you say it like B-E-T-T-A. Without looking. Yeah, without looking. B-E-T-A. Better. No. Better read it. Yeah, without looking. B-E-T-A. Better. No, no, no. Spread the whole thing out. Spread the whole thing out. Oh, it's BetterHelp.

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Ten percent? Yeah. Holy hell, Carolyn. One percent would have been terrible. That's a bad deal. Not when it fixes your mental health. That's a good point. I'd pay one percent more.

Get ten percent off their first month at betterhelp.com slash IDK. All right. Please welcome our guest, Eileen Ormsby. G'day, Eileen. All right, Jim, how are you going? Very good. Thank you. So Eileen, I'm assuming, is Australian.

Now it's time to play. Yes, though. Yes, though. Yes, though. Yes, though. Yes, though. Yes, though. Judging a book by its cover. We're rusty. We haven't recorded a podcast in a while.

All right. So you have the Anatomy of Man poster behind you. I don't know if that's what it's called, but that's the Da Vinci, I think. Yeah. Yeah, Da Vinci did that. So that would mean you're an intellectual. I'm going to say that's what it's called, but that's the Da Vinci, I think. Yeah. Yeah, Da Vinci did that. So that would mean you're an intellectual. I'm going to say that you're a doctor. Are you a doctor?

I am not. Oh, okay. Do you deal with anatomy? I do not. Well, not in a professional sense, anyway. All right. So this is just a little bit of light porn on your wall. Like the dick's right at head level.

So, okay. So, okay. Yeah. You've got a couple of books. You've got a pot paint. You've got a pair of scissors and a fly swatter. Are you in Australia right now? I am in Australia right now.

Oh, okay. So it's early morning. You're in Melbourne. How's the lockdown working out for you? Oh, yeah. Not good. Not good. We just cancelled a festival next week.

Not happy. Oh, okay. Festival. Here we go. Now I know something. Do you work in the music business? I do not. All right.

Give me a hint. I'm out of I'm out of my DC um well uh you've heard of this and um

it deals with the internet yeah internet porn you always say porn it doesn't even matter we're trying to do a porn episode

don't worry that's the internet that's what it's all about viruses yeah but what's there's a part of the internet that's like weird there's like a a part of the internet that's weird. There's like a secret part of the internet.

A secret part. Oh, the dark web. That is correct. Oh, God, the dark web. Bloody people up to no good. Eileen Ormsby is a lawyer, author, freelance journalist, and dark web expert based in Melbourne, Australia. Her first book, Silk Road, was the world's first in-depth look

from the inside into the original mass-marketed, in Melbourne, Australia. Her first book, Silk Road, was the world's first in-depth look from the inside into the original mass-marketed point-and-click dark net market for drugs. Since then, she has gone on to write five true crime books, including The Darkest Web, which took her deep into

the secretive corners of the dark web, looking for drugs, weapons, dealers, hackers, hitmen, and the worst of humanity. You can find her. Her Twitter handle is at Eileen Ormsby. That's E-I-L-E-E-N-O-R-M-S-B-Y. And also her website is EileenOrmsby.com. There you go.

How did you get into, before we even get started, how did you, I mean, this is such a, you know, like a very, how did you get into getting the dark web? I don't know. I can't even speak. Uh, it was around 2011, 2012. And, um, I needed to write a feature article, um, for the newspaper here, being a freelancer, always need to write things and sell them. Um, and one of my friends was using something called Silk Road, uh, and getting drugs delivered to them in the mail. And I thought, well, this sounds crazy.

Show me how this works. And they showed me how it worked. I wrote an article about it. My editor immediately asked me for more articles about this mysterious dark web. And so I sort of became Fairfax News' local go-to journalist for anything dark web related. And from there, it just went on through books.

These things grow as they do. I'm going to ask Jim everything he thinks he knows about the dark web. I've got some questions for him to prod him along because I don't think he's just going to have a lot of information. Then you're going to grade him 1 through 10, 10 being the best. In accuracy, you're going to grade him 10 being the best. Kelly's going to grade him on confidence. I'm going to grade them one through 10, 10 being the best, like an accuracy. You're going to grade them 10 being the best. And Kelly's going to grade them on confidence. I'm going to grade them on et cetera. We'll add them all together. 21 through 30, dark web.

11 through 20, dusky web. Zero through 10, high noon web. High noon web's a nice one. High noon web. All right, I'm ready to go. I'm not paying attention. Great. I'm good, I'm good, I'm good.

Sorry, sorry. All right, Jim, what is the dark web? The dark web is a place that is like an underground web place where you can see a whole lot of horrible shit or buy things illegally. Okay. Like what is it used for then? It's criminals buy things with Bitcoins on there and, I don't know, probably child pornography or some nuclear warheads or any bad thing, guns you could probably buy on the dark web.

You probably credit card details, fraudulent things you can get on the dark web so you can steal someone's identification. Only bad things. Yeah. I don't think anyone's fucking I make teddy bears dark web page. I don't think it's anything good. I don't think there's a flower shop that functions within the dark web. Okay.

How do you get onto the dark web? I don't know. I've tried. I don't know how to do it. Darkwe web. Okay. How do you get onto the dark web? I don't know. I've tried. I don't know how to do it. Darkweb.com. Wait a second. You said only bad things people are on there.

You want to get on there? I want to catch them. No, I don't know how you get on the dark web, but I don't want to get on the dark web. I always worry that you click on something on a porn site and you're like, am I on the dark web now? You know what I mean?

I don't know how it works. I don't know if it's like a different computer or you need a different IP address or what happens there. Well, that's what I was going to ask you. So can anyone access it? Or so you don't know, you don't know. I believe anyone, I think it's illegal to access it. I believe anyone can do anything illegal.

You can access it if you know what you're doing, sure. Okay. So now here, what's the difference between the deep web, the dark web, and dark net? Oh, the movie trilogy. Say those three again. Deep web. Deep web.

Dark web. Dark web. Deep web. Yeah. And dark net. And dark wing duck. Yeah. The deep web is, I don't know, Darknet. And Darkwing Duck. Yeah.

The deep web is, I don't know the difference between those. I don't even know. A lot of meditation going on there. I don't even know a funny answer for that. The deep web is like a web that's like, what if the universe? Yeah. And then Darknet versus Darkweb. The Darknet is. They're the ones that couldn't get dark.com

so they got dark.net. Maybe it's just a website. I don't fucking know. I feel like it's the internet but just dodgy internet. Okay. Well, I guess we'll learn then. Is it illegal to browse the dark web?

I believe so, yes. Okay. Okay, well, here's a question. It should be. What percentage of activity in the dark web is illegal? 90%. 90%, okay. Already went over... Oh, here's a question. It should be. What percentage of activity in the dark web is illegal? 90%. 90%, okay.

Already went over. Oh, here's a question. So here you go. What are some of the legal uses of the dark web? Finding people doing wrong things on the dark web. When did you become this superhero? He's a vigilante. Yeah, I go into the dark web.

Interpol, baby. Probably the police using it to like run like. They didn't do anything bad. Well, see, the police in Australia just shut down an entire, you'll know about this, they just shut down basically all the underground sort of mafia of Australia, the bikers and all these different things. They shut them down because what happened was they put like, you know how you use WhatsApp so that you can't be tracked

on who you're texting and stuff like that? The police made up an app. The FBI made an app. The FBI made an app that they had to buy for like five grand or something like that, and they all bought it. So that was the secret sauce. They made them buy this app, and then they were tracing every message they ever sent.

They had thousands of messages, and then one morning they just woke up and arrested loads of people. They had an underground influencer, like an organized crime influencer that got everybody to buy this and send it to the most anonymous chat message there is. You can say what you want on this thing. It's kind of similar to what happened with Parler, right? What happened with Parler? Well, I mean, I just feel like that was a website that was supposed to be, you know,

where you could, you know, your social media, where all the right wing people could go, but they had to use their identification to go on there. So now they're being linked to like these threatening statements and all that stuff. Like basically kind of the same thing. It was supposed to be an anonymous place. Okay. All right. How does cryptocurrency play a role in the dark web and black market?

Because people can buy things with cryptocurrency in the black web and the dark market, and you can't do it with cash or credit cards because that's too traceable. Okay. What are red rooms um red rooms are rooms within the dark web where you can hold a little forum with a few people have like a zoom meeting maybe that's right sounds good yeah that's a good guess what is the significance of the extension is this extension dotonion or extension.onion? Extension.onion.

Okay, extension.onion. What's the extension.onion? Yeah, so instead of.com,.onion. What's the significance of onion? Well, that's when you want to chat about cooking recipes on the dark web. Oh, so there are good things. No, no, no. All the cooking recipes involve drugs.

Shark fins. You have to watch child porn when you cook this meal. This is how you eat adrenal glands. Bit of salt, bit of pepper. You don't want to overcook them. And onions. Don't forget onions. Yeah, yeah.

Is it possible to be completely anonymous online? I believe it probably is if you knew what you were doing. Not completely. You watched the QAnon, Doc. I know that. Eventually they could trace you down. You can be very, very anonymous. But you've got the people on like 4chan and all that type of stuff

and they're chatting during the shootings in Christchurch. So I would say that, yeah, yeah, I reckon you can be completely anonymous. Do federal agencies monitor activity on the dark web? If so, how? Is that what you were saying? They go in there themselves and they pose like, I'm a sexy girl. And that's how they get you. Okay, I didn't write this question.

Kelly, is this how many websites are there in total or on the dark web? On the dark web. How many websites are there on the dark web and how do you find new ones? Thousands and thousands of things. There's just scumbags everywhere. 80,000 dark web sites. New ones. Thousands and thousands of things. Give us a number. There's just scumbags everywhere. Yeah. 80,000 dark web sites. Who is the Dread Pirate Roberts?

The Dread Pirate Roberts? Yeah. You know who he is? I'm asking you. Okay. Back in the turn of the 16th century. Yeah. When the Spanish Armada.

We're talking about the dark web. Yeah. It's all getting to there. All right. I have to tell five hours of. We're talking about the dark web. Yeah. It's all getting to there. All right. I have to tell five hours of this story to get to the right point though.

So the Spanish Armada style holiday got with a pirate called, what was his name again? Dread Pirate Roberts. No, I don't know who he is.

I'm giving up on him. Okay. He's a different guy? Yeah, different guy. Does Ross Ulbricht, is that how you pronounce his name? Ulbricht?

Yeah. Does that ring a bell? No. Okay. Can you hire a hitman on the dark web? You'd have a better chance of doing it than the regular web. I would go, yeah, I reckon you could, yeah. Is your data being sold on the dark web?

Quite possibly. In general, yes, okay. All right. That's all the questions we're going to ask. Eileen, how did Jim do in his knowledge of the dark web? Pretty good, I think, right? Zero through 10, 10 being the best. I'd say 10.

He did okay. No, he didn't. You're a liar. I thought I was all right. I honestly thought he'd be up a little bit higher, but I'd say probably about a six. A six. Yeah, she thought you'd be higher because she thought I'd say probably about a six. A six. Yeah, she thought you'd be higher because she thought you used

a dark web a lot. Yeah, six is pretty good. Yeah, confidence was a three. I don't want to be high on this. I don't want people going, that Jim Jefferies knows everything about the dark web. Maybe you're just playing dumb right now. Yeah.

Okay, confidence 11. He's the pirate guy. Dread pirate Roberts. Confidence, what'd he get? I'm going to give him a three on confidence. Three. I'm going to give you a negative two so you stay in the high noon web. I don't want anyone to think you're dead or et cetera.

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based one with some sort of bolognese, something on it. That was really good. So I guess it's like more of a less carbs and stuff. But you just heat it up. All you gotta do is throw it in the microwave, heat it up, and then eat it. You say the microwave?

A microwave? Microwave? I have a microwave. What do you have? Do you have a microwave? Microwave works faster. Microwave is a small microwave. I have a microwave too.

They're slower. I've got them all. This doesn't make sense because I was driving down the road the other day and I saw Forrest and I was like, there's a wonderful smell

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keeps.com slash idk. Okay, what is the dark web, Eileen? Jim said underground web place where you can see a whole lot of horrible shit and buy drugs. Well, that's sort of true. That's part of the dark web. But basically the dark web is just the colloquial name that they give to websites that can't be accessed on your normal web or what we call the clear web.

So if you have a dark web URL or address and you type it into your Chrome or your Safari or whatever you're using, it'll just come up as page not found, does not exist. So you have to download a special sort of software, and the most common software is called, or you have to download a dark net. The most common one is called Tor. And once you've downloaded that, you'll open a browser. It looks like any other browser.

But then you can browse the normal web anonymously. And you can also access these websites, the dark websites that you can't normally access. Okay. So you need a special browser. So you can never accidentally stumble into the dark web? No. You are going there very deliberately. I feel much safer.

How come you can't access it? Why does it have to be a special route? That's Jack. You can't see him. Hi. I'm in the dark web. Why you can't? Because, well, the whole idea of it is they're actually hidden services

so that they can't trace the normal way. So if you're selling drugs on anything that can be accessed by your normal website, then you've got an IP address that can be traced. People can find you. And the whole idea is they don't want people to be able to find them if they're operating these particular sites on the dark web. Okay. So when I asked Jim what it's used for, he said child porn, criminals, guns, credit card details. They don't make teddy bears. There's no flower shops. So is that cover all the like so drugs you can get what else is there's certainly herb shops uh on the dark

web maybe not flowers per se uh there's also things like cat facts um but cat what cat facts um so there are some some sites on the dark web that are not that dark. Hold on though, wait, who needs to be anonymous to learn about cat facts? And you can't trust cats. Yeah, they're like, look, I love cats, don't tell anybody. Yeah, but some of the facts might be they taste like chicken. Cats watch child porn. I mean, the other things it's used for, so, well, the main thing is the dark web websites,

their technical name is hidden services, and they are websites that you can host without being traced, which means that you can advertise illegal goods and services quite openly, happily in the knowledge that, you know, the person behind the website can't be traced. But it's also used by users living in repressive regimes in, you know, non-democratic countries. They use Tor to circumvent their firewalls and censorship restrictions.

So they can download this Tor and go on there and, you know, nobody knows that they're on this dark web and they can just use that to get news from democratic countries. So that's a big use for it as well. So it's not all bad and evil. The other thing is, you know, there's a whole lot of newspapers, the New York Times, the Guardian, a lot of newspapers have dark web sites so that whistleblowers can upload material to those sites,

safe in the knowledge that there's no metadata in there and they can't be traced. So that is another use for the dark web. Would people in countries where they can't access certain websites, whether it's Facebook or Netflix or whatever, that would be a route for them to take? Yes, absolutely. And Facebook does have a dark web Facebook address on there as well. Okay. Well, that is different because I was with Jim.

I just figured everything on there was just seedy and gross. Is it illegal to be on it? That was one of the questions. Is it illegal? It's not illegal to be on it? No, no. So, well, if we go to the next next question which was how do you get on it right the most common way to get on it is to download this piece of software called tor

uh tor is free it's open source tor was developed by the u.s military um in order to protect military secrets and that's t-o-r right t-o-r t-o-r the onion router so t-o-r.org is where you find it perfectly legal to download it um and yeah it was developed by in part by the u.s military in order to protect military secrets so that but they knew that if only the military was using it then anybody that was watching any bad bad actors that were watching would know that any traffic that was going through this stuff was military secret. So they left it out to the world at large. And the more people that are using it, the less likely that they are to be able to notice one particular packet of traffic going anywhere. Wow.

So you're helping national security by using this, basically. Yeah, there you go. You can say that if you like. I'm buying drugs, but it's about freedom. Freedom drugs. Okay, but there are other servers now that you can use besides Tor? Yeah, there's I2P, there's Freenet, there's other darknets. I mean, there's thousands of darknets.

Some of them are private, and others are quite well-known, like Tor, I2P. Freenet has got nearly all just gross stuff on it, so that's not one you'd want to go near. Okay, so then the next question is who can access it? Then anyone can access it, basically, right? Pretty much, pretty much, including a lot of people in places where their internet is censored. What's the difference between that and like having a VPN?

Is that, is it the same thing or is it completely different? Well, Tor, no, it's not completely different. Tor does act as a VPN so that, you know, if you go to a website, that website knows it's had a visitor, but that thinks the visitor is in the Ukraine or Romania or somewhere like that. So it has no idea where that visitor has come from, but it does more than that. It encrypts all your communication. Okay. That just made me think about when we're looking at the stats of our podcast,

where people are listening from, we might not even have that right. We're always like someone's Slovenia. We have one fan in Slovenia, write to us. It's like someone's in Slovenia. Oh, we have one fan in Slovenia. Write to us. So what's the difference between the deep web, dark web, and dark net? Jim says a movie trilogy.

Deep web's very philosophical. Dark net, just a website. I don't think we see. No. Deep web is deep. Okay. No, he didn't know. So the deep web is, you know, sometimes you read those newspapers and they talk about, oh, the deep web, it's thousands of times bigger

than the normal internet and all that. And if you think about that logically, the place where you can find, you know, guns and drugs and child porn and hit men and all that sort of thing, it's not hundreds of times bigger than the normal internet. The deep web is, but the reason for that is the deep web, you can't get to simply by putting an address into a browser or Google searching. So if you have an example, if you bank with someone,

Bank of America or something, I don't know what American banks are, their normal website is part of the clear web. But any of your information that you need a password to get into, you need more than just an address to get into, is part of the deep web. So the deep web is all those things that are behind firewalls, that are password protected, absolutely anything you can't get to without another step.

The dark web is a very, very tiny part of the deep web. So it is part of the deep web and it requires a dark net to get to the dark web. So the dark net is things like Tor, the things that you download, that's a dark net. And the dark web is the websites that you can access by the dark net okay got it this is the big one i'm i'm not following this at all so i understand the dark weather deep weather thing and the thing and you get an app and you can get onto the dark web and it's like it's dark that's the app how's it

how's it why is it legal i understand that some countries with censorship or whatever but that's still the law of that country. So it feels like it's not a good thing, the dark web. Is there positives to the dark web? Well, yeah. I mean, the things like people in hostile regimes being able to access things that are being censored. It provides for secure communications between people that need secure communications, especially people

that are operating in those regimes, a liberal democracy like the US or Australia. Those people can have completely safe communications back home and even if they're being watched, their communications can't be intercepted. You know, if anyone does intercept them, they won't be able to read them. It's all going to be completely encrypted, complete gobbledygook.

Military is that too. It feels like there's so much bad on the dark webs to have this little bit of good to go, oh, it justifies it. That's like having a field of cocaine plants, but there's a flower in the middle. No, but you're coming from the point of view of being in Australian America. If you lived in like North Korea and you were oppressed and you couldn't, that's a lot of good to be able to try and...

It's the small amount of people next to the... Millions of people. Next to the real bad shit that's going on. Yeah, but that's because I think you have the... That's what she was saying. Remember we used to live without the internet at all. And we didn't go, those people, they can't talk to people across the world.

You know what I mean? We just dealt with it. You're talking small numbers, Jim. It is used to get around the Great Firewall of Time. That's one of its uses. That's a lot of people. Yeah. But I don't know how to do that.

If I was in one of these repressed countries, I'd still have the same information. You'd figure it out. Somebody would teach you. Yeah, you would because you'd be like, I want to communicate with my relatives that live in the United States, because I need XYZ, maybe I need whatever, you know?

All I do is download a new browser. Yeah, it's not like, yeah, I think you'd figure it out. I don't know if we should. Put it this way. I don't know if we should be telling people this good stuff about the dark world. Do you think it's okay to look at porn on the internet? I do, but I wouldn't fight my government for it.

You sure? I'm pretty sure I wouldn't. You consider yourself Maybe right now you would when you're 20. A law-abiding guy? Right now you're like, well, that's against the law,

so you shouldn't do it. No, I'm, Laura, I'm, yeah, I've broken some crimes every day, but I'm not,

like, I'm not getting fucking hit men and fucking. Well, you have to consider too, that the origination of this was to protect military secrets, right? So it kind of has to, there has to be a way to do that. I don't know. I think the internet on the whole is the worst thing to ever happen to our society. Yeah, agreed. Well, we're not arguing that.

By far. And then just to go, well, I have to watch that QAnon documentary where they go, like anyone who goes on the 8chan or something like that is a fucking piece of shit. Yeah, but I would argue this too. It's like, there's enough damage on the, what is it, the clear net? The clear web? Like, there's tons of damage being done right now. I know, I can't imagine what's going on in the dark web.

Yeah, but it's a lot smaller is what we're saying too. But this is, I've said this, you said this is not possible. I said, we should shut down the internet. No one's allowed to use the internet twice a year for a month. So it's like every five months, the internet gets shut down, except for vital services like hospitals, fire stations, things like that. And you're allowed to email still, that's it. But you wouldn't be allowed.

So everyone would have to kind of like decompress, go outside, do some stuff, and they're not allowed to be on Facebook or buy a child porn or hit men or whatever. When I go on the internet, you know, there's nothing really. I'll say this. I don't think I've ever done anything illegal on the internet. Yeah. I don't think there's anything that I've done that's dodgy where if someone looked at my computer, I'd be in a bit of trouble. No think I've ever done anything illegal on the internet I don't think there's anything that I've done that's dodgy

where if someone looked at my computer I'd be in a bit of trouble I've never done anything I've never bought anything, I've never looked at anything well technically, just so you know when you're texting people, that's on the internet I've probably texted some illegal things dark text dark web text

because you download those apps where people aren't able to see your text and things like that. Let's say you're going to buy some mushrooms. I would never do that. Yeah, I brought mushrooms out of the farm. Don't say that. Shiitake mushrooms.

Portobello. Is it illegal to browse the dark web? think we already answered that it's it's not okay sorry yeah sorry so yes it's not illegal just to hop onto the dark web now you can't really you can't really browse it because it's not like you can search for something and it comes up so you need to know the actual addresses that you're going to um however some some people have put directories in there where you have a whole lot of things that you can click on. So if you call that browsing, it's browsing. So going to things like the drugs markets,

completely legal in our countries anyway, completely legal to go in there, browse around, have a look at the things that are for sale there. However, in both of our countries, if you were to go to a child porn link, the minute you've gone there, you have done something illegal. No matter whether you don't go any further, whether you don't click on any pictures, anything like that, the minute you've gone there, you've done something illegal.

So it's pretty dangerous just to sort of sit there and start clicking on random links. You want to know exactly where you're going and why you're going there. Okay. So you have to know the exact address though. So someone has to like. Yeah. Yeah.

So how do you find those then? How to? I don't know if we should be telling people these things. You don't want to be telling people? I don't know how to tell people how to get on. Here's how you be a piece of shit. I mean, I think that people who are into this have already figured

it out. I'm right here, I can hear you. What, do you go on to the dark web? Of course, what do you think? She's an expert. She has to do it for research. She's not buying guns and shit. Well, let's get to the next question. What percentage of activity on the dark web is illegal or bad? Because I think right now his perception is that almost

everything is terrible. Almost everything is terrible on the actual internet. The dark web's got to just be filled with cunts. Just filled. Most people who use the Tor browser are using it for perfectly legal reasons, and that is to go and surf the web anonymously. And they use it so that nothing is following them. There's no little shopping box following them to, you know,

sell them some shoes or something. Once they close the browser, there's no record whatsoever of what they've looked at, what they've searched for, where they've been. So there's no record on the computer. There's no record with the ISP. It's absolutely anonymous. So a lot of people just use it for that just because they don't want watching their browsing.

My question for that is. And that's the majority. But even that, okay, so I don't want pop-up ads. If you don't want pop-up, what's the contract we sign with the internet? You know, if you don't want people. Well, it's not. You don't have to pop up... What's the contract we sign with the internet? You don't have to. What makes you upset about somebody... We advertised a company here to block everything that you're doing on our podcast.

I don't agree with all this. I'm not sure what makes you upset about somebody just browsing normally. Why do you think people should be able to... I just know from people who write comments on things and just like simple shit, just people who, trolls who write nasty things and try to stay anonymous. These are a group of cowards.

What are you hiding? Why do you have to do this? You're not talking about that. You're talking about like you don't want spam. You don't want like advertisements for all this shit. I know, but. Jim doesn't realize how much it sucks because he doesn't check his email. No, I just don't read it.

I get spammed all day. I'm a spam King. Some people don't want that though. Like it's like some people don't want to come in their mailbox either. So they try to get rid of it. It's the same difference. It's like you've created the atom bomb so that you can do a little thing over here that you're more comfortable with.

But for the greater good, I don't know if this is a good thing. It seems like you people are all in the fucking dark. We'd have no career. comfortable with. For the greater good, I don't know if this is a good thing. It seems like you people are all in the fucking dark. You'd have no career if it wasn't for the internet. Yeah, but I'm not for the dark internet. But you are. Am I on the dark internet?

You are railing against the internet in general. You're railing against the internet in general right now. Yeah, but you wouldn't even have this podcast. You wouldn't have a career. You wouldn't have the house you have. You don't know that. You don't know that because we'd all be in the same playing field. Before the internet, I was doing stand-up comedy, and people used to come and see me, and then I'd sell more tickets and more tickets just through word of mouth.

It would have been better. That is not before the internet. Your comedy did not start before the internet. My comedy started before the internet was a thing, before YouTube. Okay. When people were just looking at fucking websites of bread. When did YouTube start? Bread web.

Tim, how about from this angle? I am completely opposed to the war on drugs. I don't believe that drugs should be illegal. I think that they should be a health issue rather than a legal issue. I think they disproportionately target ethnic minorities. Sure. So I'm against the war on drugs. One of the reasons the dark web came to everybody's attention

in the first place was the first major drugs market, Silk Road. And the whole philosophy behind the Silk Road drugs market was it is a safer way of buying and selling drugs and it has feedback on it. So if you were to go and buy your MDMA on Silk Road, you have five-star feedback, four or five stars, whether it's the real thing. You have independent people testing different dealers' drugs and saying what purity they are. And so you know exactly what purity you're getting. And you don't have to meet a dealer face-to-face, so there's no chance of any violence whatsoever.

And that was the philosophy behind the Silk Road. If people are going to buy drugs anyway, it is a safer way of buying them. And there's been a lot of academic stuff gone into these darknet markets that show that it's very, very rare that someone will try drugs for the first time by going to a darknet market. They've usually, you know, pretty much decided that they want to have pingers on the weekend every weekend and this is a safer way of getting it.

Less likely to get anything adulterated. But that was part of the fun of drugs. Part of the fun was going of the fun of drugs part of the fun going to prison for the rest of your life going down the alleyway meeting the guys someone handing it to you parking your car no no no that's you the person selling the drug can go to prison for 20 years

but they shouldn't do it then you don't care you're being a grumpy old man right now I would deal with it you're talking shit right You're being contrarian right now. You want the people selling you drugs to go to prison forever because they sold you drugs? I'm not a fan of the internet, full stop.

Yeah, of course. I think if you're on the dark web, you're a dickhead who's up to no good. That's where I stand on the whole thing. I'm still here. I can still hear you. I'm sorry, but you're on the dark web. I can't sugar coat it for you what are you up to

what do you have to fucking just have the shoes ad it's not that bad you really assume that every every aspect of it is somebody doing something illegal I think that if you're two inch computers you're probably a bit of a fuckwit

like I have very exact the people who comment on fucking shit and just. You're one step away from being an anti-vaxxer right now. You are literally there. I would like to go backwards with computers. My father said, he goes, one day we'll be flying over the desert. There'll just be piles of them everywhere. And people will go, what was that?

And I go, they were computers. Now, I don't know. How will you be flying over a computer? That's exactly what I said to him. I'm like, are we in the Wright brothers plane? What are we doing here? In the comments below,

let us know if you agree. Wow, this plane's really out of control. I'm trying my best to steady it. So you were going to kind of get, I'm sure this will feed right in the gym, by the way, the percentage of activity that you say,

you say the dark web, a lot of people are just using the browser, but once you get to the dark web sites, the percentage of that stuff that's illegal is high. It's very high. But that includes drugs. It's not supported having a dark web site if it's legal. So, yeah.

So a very high percentage of the actual websites. That's something else. I mean, sometimes the library of Frantle, which has all sorts of documents and books and all that sort of thing, it's not that much different to, you know, Pirate Bay, which is also illegal but which is on the clear web. So there's a lot of that sort of stuff as well. A lot of forums, discussion forums,

where people just want to remain anonymous. But they're not as out of control and ridiculous as 4chan. Especially when you've got a little psychedelic community and all they want to talk about is how psychedelics make the world better. They're really nice communities and they're not full of trolls and dickheads like 4chan, 8chan, etc. Yeah, but anyone who's on a forum is a bit of a dickhead.

Yeah, but what if, let's say you were like... Like if you feel I need to chat with strangers about something that I'm interested in, call a friend, you fucking dickhead. This is the part of the internet. If you're the head of a, if you're CEO of a company, you can't just chat with a friend about doing acid. You have to go into a forum like this that you want to do. But what do you need?

We need to talk- Also, we have an entire Facebook group where fans get together and talk about the podcast. Yeah, but they're a small minority. This is the thing, right? There's like 10,000 people? 16. Before the internet, we used to have, like, if you fucked- That's an old man right now.

If your thing was fucking horses, right? I'm into fucking horses. I'm into bestiality. Clip that out. You used to feel- You can find that on the dark web. Yeah, exactly. You used to feel alone. And you know what? You should have feel alone.

And you know what? You should have felt alone. You shouldn't be able to find a community of other people. You're only going to horse fucking and child porn. There's a lot of it like drugs. I can't believe you're railing against drugs right now because the drug thing you should be like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not railing against drugs. I'm thinking for the greater good.

Horse, just for child pornography alone. There are countries if you go on the internet and search anything, you go to jail as well. Like, it's like you're not even looking at that. We didn't have the internet before. Yeah, but now it's made. It's a new toy we've given. And we're going, oh, I can't play with it the way I fucking want.

You use it as a toy. Some people use it as a tool. And a lot of things get a cut. We just mentioned airplanes. How would you get around with airplanes? Your phone that you are using. Before the internet, airplanes were just smashing into each other left, right, and center. We had mentioned airplanes. How would you get around with airplanes? Your phone that you- Before the internet, airplanes were just smashing into each other, left, right, and center.

We had radar. A lot more than they are today, yeah, of course. I don't know about that. What do you mean you don't know about that? That's just the title. You're spot on about people finding each other, and that is the worst part of the dark web, is that it is provided for the child exploitation people.

It is provided a space where they can advertise, hey, this is who we are, this is what we do, and this is where you can find your tribe. And so that is by far the worst part of the dark web. That is the darkest, most horrible thing imaginable. So they can, they do, they find each other, they get together, they talk to each other, they share their materials and

um it normalizes to them what they do they as you said once upon a time they wouldn't have known anyone else that was into what they're they're into and all of a sudden they have this this community uh so that is the worst thing um so is there a solution for that okay on the plus side of that is that is where international task forces are actually, they work together. Like you have the drugs, for example. International task, they don't work together at all. There's all these little silos that want to be the ones that take down the people and have their own things. With the child exploitation, they work together really well.

And they do some fairly controversial things. There's been a time when they found a guy at the head of the biggest of these child porn sites and when they found him, instead of shutting it down, they took it over. And they took it over because they don't want to find the internet guy. They want to find people that are actually harming the children. They took it over and then these people, even though they're anonymous thanks to the dark web,

they're still, they give up stuff. If they trust the person that, you know, is running the site, they start and so that's how they do these things. And so, you know, an awful lot of the child porn on the dark web you'll find is, you know, a great big sting in order to catch these people the people that are actually doing the crimes to the children um which is something that's always happened but yeah the dark web's just given it this space to all get together uh to do it okay well i never even thought about that because i i'm with jim on like all that i i'm not

completely against what jim's saying but yeah so you can kind of herd them into an area and hopefully catch them better that way, but that's still... I'm not saying that's a good thing. I'm saying that's the worst thing is that these people can actually find each other. No, no, no, but I mean law enforcement can hopefully maybe get them. So you can be arrested from the dark web is the question.

They can't find you as such. Yeah. Well, they can get information. They use the same techniques as they use in any detective work. So, you know, when it comes to these child exploitation sites, what they do is they study the videos and the photos, imagine having that job, and look for things in the background, look for any sorts of clues of where these people might be, and they do.

They become busted members of these um convinced people to uh you know start chatting to them and people always give up something they always want to talk to someone they always want to talk about themselves and that's how they catch those people okay um but once again before the internet there was there was no child pornography sites but there was also still tons there was still child abuse there's probably more child abuse back then than there is now in the 70s and stuff it was it was more pedophilia going on and i'm still like this and i used to walk to school all by myself i'd never let my kid you know um cryptocurrencyrency plays a role in the dark web and black market. People can buy things on the black web and dark market,

Jim said, with crypto. I mean, yeah. I mean, but it's anonymous, right? That's the role it plays, basically. Well, when most people think of crypto, they think of Bitcoin. Did you keep your one Bitcoin, Jim? I got half a Bitcoin now. Did you move it to a wallet?

No, I sold half of it on Robinhood when it got high and now it's just going down and down. You still bought it early. I made like 30 grand or 40 grand or something. That's good. But anyway, Bitcoin is no longer what is used on the dark web. It certainly was at the beginning and when Silk Road started, the first of the great big drugs markets started, Bitcoin was worth less than a dollar and Silk Road was actually the great big use case that made

Bitcoin first explode. So by the time the owner of Silk Road was arrested, three years later, Bitcoin was worth at least $1,200 and then it's just gone up and up since then. But it is also completely not anonymous because every single transaction that's ever been made in Bitcoin is available for all of us to see on something called a blockchain. We just go to blockchain.com and you can see absolutely

every transaction that's ever been carried out with Bitcoin. You don't know who's on either side of that transaction, but they're all visible. So once law enforcement knows a certain transaction is an illegal transaction, there's an amazing chain and there was this sort of bots now that can go and follow that crypto all the way until someone cashes it out.

And that's how they catch people by following the blockchain. So nowadays, people use something called Monero, which is a privacy coin on the dark web, because people are still getting caught now from transactions I made 10 years ago on Bitcoin because it's all there. Well, you know, I just thought of something too so there must have been like some heroin addict that like bought like 200 bitcoin at the beginning bought some heroin on the dark web overdosed and now there's like 300 million dollars in bitcoin sitting somewhere that nobody knows it's like try spoon try dirty spoon i don't know just recently that's exactly what happened just recently um someone called individual x gave up to the u.s government two billion dollars worth of crypto

worth of bitcoin which was actually an amount that he stole this individual like in 2011 so he actually stole a few hundred dollars um a few thousand dollars and it's now worth two billion dollars wait he stole it from where i'm sorry because you cut out there he's from sorry he stole it from silk road the drugs market okay um back in the day but he never moved it because um you know silk road knew that uh it had been stolen and they had an idea of who it might be and he never moved it, but he's just given it up to the US government this year, now worth $2 billion, or it was when he gave it up. As you know, it's crashed a bit now.

They obviously had something on him and said, well, all right, you give us $2 billion, you don't go to prison. We don't know who individual X. Where's that tax break? Why don't they be like, hey, everybody, no taxes this year. Fucking sending more rich people to space with that extra money. Holy shit. What are Red Rooms? A forum via Zoom meeting, Jim said.

Red Rooms are one of the ultimate dark web myths. So just about everyone believes that you can go on the dark web, you can go into these places where you pay a bit of Bitcoin and then you get to watch, you know, the movie Hostel? It's like that with webcams where you get to watch someone being tortured to death and if you pay enough Bitcoin, you can get to type into some of the commands of what you want done next to that person.

Oh, my God. It's a complete myth. It doesn't exist. Oh, that of what you want done next to that person. Oh, my God. It's a complete myth. It doesn't exist. That's what they want you to think. You can certainly go on the dark web and find them. So people will say, oh, no, I know that they exist. You can go on and find them. I can guarantee you, you give them your Bitcoin

and they'll take your Bitcoin and you won't get to see anyone die. I want to rip off. Hey, Jack, come over to my house later. I got something for Bitcoin. You won't get to see anyone die. So I want to rip off. Hey Jack, come over to my house later. I got something for you. It's going to be in my garage. Okay,

cool. Okay. I'm going to film something. I want Jack to give Forrest a foot rub. Oh yeah, it's going to happen. Oh yeah. We got to do that.

That'll be on the dark web. What is the significance of the extension onion? And Jim says, when you want to do some cooking on the dark web. So the extension.onion, so that's a signifier instead of.com,.org,.whatever. If it says.onion on the end, then you know it's the dark web website. And the actual address is a dark web website. So this long chain of random letters, numbers, It's not something that's easy to remember. You see this long chain of random numbers and letters and ends in.onion.

You know that if you, that's a dark web address, that if you put it into your normal browser, won't do anything, won't open anything. If you put it into the Tor browser, will open something. Okay. And you've talked about being anonymous. We asked, is it possible to be completely anonymous online? Jim said yes and you're saying yes on the dark web you can be completely anonymous but before you answer this i i watched this q anon documentary and everybody was anonymous in that

4chan and ancient except the guy that's running it can see all your shit so there's isn't there somebody running tor and all the stuff that can see your stuff no no there's there's no one running tor it's an open source thing. So it's, you know, millions of computers all over the world are running it. So it is possible to be anonymous if you pretty much don't do anything. If you go onto dark web and you just have a little look around, you don't click on any links that you don't know what they are that aren't going to steal all your information.

It is possible to be anonymous. It is very, very difficult. And human beings make mistakes, and that's how law enforcement find people is because human beings make mistakes. There are all sorts of – and all it takes is one tiny mistake. The guy that ran Silk Road, it was, you know, he made one little mistake and that just brought down this whole $1 million empire.

He, very early in the day when Silk Road first started and no one had heard of it and he didn't think it was ever going to become anything, he wrote on a forum, hey, has anyone heard of this site Silk Road? You should check it out. And on that forum, he wrote it as if he just stumbled across it, but also somewhere in that forum in one of his other posts that he had deleted, but, you know, it was on the regular internet

so it's never deleted for good, he advertised a position and he put in his Gmail address into that and he was tracked from that. Wow. What was his name? And that and he was tracked from that. What was his name? And that was years before they found him. Oh, well, that's spoiler alert for the future. His name was Ross Ulbricht, a.k.a. The Dread Pirate Roberts.

When he ran Silk Road, his name was The Dread Pirate Roberts and he ran it for like two and a half years. That's why you know he was know he's up to no good. He called himself the Dread Pirate and he's like, I'm just having a bit of fun. I'm skull poison or whatever you want to call yourself. Well, he was selling drugs. Yeah, but he wasn't selling the drugs, was he? He just set up the forum to sell drugs, did he?

He set up the forum. So it was like any other e-commerce forum. It was up to buyers and sellers come together. And, you know, so if you're a buyer, you'd go on there. And it looks like Amazon, eBay, anything like that. You've got your little pictures. You've got your feedback. You've got your price.

And what you do, though, is you make your purchase, but your cryptocurrency goes to the site, not to the actual seller. And you don't release that. It goes into escrow. And you don't release it until you get your drugs, you test them, you say, oh, yes, they are what I ordered. Then you release it from escrow. And the site takes a little percentage of every single sale that's made. I love that there's money

in escrow for drugs. We just went into escrow today for the mushrooms. And so we answered that. How long is he in prison for? Oh, well, so Ross Ulbrich, he was 29 when he got caught. So he ran Silk Road for two and a half years. And when he got caught, he was 29 years old. His sentence is two life sentences plus 40 years without any possibility of parole unless you get to presidential pardon. So if you're listening, Mr. Ulbricht, in prison, nice to have you in.

Thanks, yeah. Bye, Butcherbox. There's a massive movement to get him freed. If you have a look at the Free Ross movement, a lot of people don't believe that it is a – he got more than El Chapo. Okay? He ran a website and he got more than El Chapo. So it seems a little disproportionate for his crime. Yeah.

Do federal agencies monitor activity on dark web? I think we already answered that. Dread Pirate Roberts. Oh, can you hire a hitman on the dark web? Yeah, that's a good one. Jim says better chance of doing it on the dark web than the regular web. Yeah, right, right.

The answer is you can go on the dark web and you can find a lot of hitman sites. And the hitman sites are very slick and professional. They look like the drug sites sort of and they match up you with a hitman in your local area. The thing is, is they're all run by one guy. His name is Yura. I got to know him quite well.

And he is like a Nigerian scammer. Everybody who pays and a lot of money pay, a lot of people pay a lot of money to carry out hits all around the world, he will string them along, string them along, get more and more money out of and get killed. So the chances are, if you go on the dark web looking for a hitman, you are going to get scammed. He's saving lives. Sorry? He's saving lives. That's what he said to me. That's what he said to me. I'm a good guy.

Look, he even offered me a job. He said, I've got so much work and my English is not very good and your English is really good. Why don't you come on and you write the emails to these people. Just send me a check. Yeah, nobody cares if somebody who wants somebody killed is getting scammed. Yeah. He's a good kind of scammer. That's what he says.

Well, that's what he says. He says, I'm doing the world a favour. Like, if I wasn't scamming these people out of money, and, you know, we're talking $10,000, $20,000 for these people, they might go out and find a real hitman. So, you know. We don't need a Nigerian guy to do it. Why doesn't the government do it?

Does the government do these fake hitman sites as well? No, that would be something. Entrapment. Entrapment. We've got a way to raise money. I figure we can get all the taxes paid. You can't report it. You can't be like, I hired a Hitman, paid him $20,000 and he didn't follow through.

Is it entrapment if they approach you? If you just open a webpage called hitman.com and then they write you. I think the webpage would be considered entrapment. Choose from our hitmen. You're going to have like Uber ratings on them and all that type of stuff. He's killed it. He does.

He has all this really elaborate fight thing where he has testimonials from happy customers. That's amazing. No mess. He's still in touch with me the whole time. My wife is no more. Five stars. That's amazing.

All right. So last question. Is everybody's data being sold on the dark web? Jim says, yeah, probably. Pretty much. If you've got an email address, there's a very good chance that your data is being sold right now on the dark web. got an email address, there's a very good chance that your data is being sold right now on the dark web. And that is why you never, ever reuse your username and password. Because you might think, oh, well, Pepe's Pizza has been hacked and their database is on the dark web. Who cares

if anyone knows my login there? The thing is, it's the people that buy it, they use that username and password and they start running it through much more lucrative sites. So if you've used that same username and password on Pepe's Pizza as you have on somewhere where you buy stuff or something that has access to your credit card, all of a sudden they have access to that. They use it to reset your Facebook passwords, all sorts of stuff. So that's why, you know, it's really important to have a password manager and to never, ever reuse your passwords on anything that matters. Shit for everyone else, right?

Because we all have different passwords. I get hacked all the time. I'm pretty – no, I'm not going to say anything. I can't even remember the, like, the passwords that I should know. I can't have a different password every time. I keep a logbook. I've got, like, 20, 30 different passwords. Yeah, you can get those, like those password manager type things, right?

And they just automate. Yeah. All right. All right, this is a part of our show called Dinner Party Facts. Our guest gives us one fact, obscure or interesting, that we can share with our audience so they can impress people. Okay, well, most of the dealers of the early darknet markets, the drug dealers of the early darknet markets that became millionaires didn't become millionaires thanks to selling a lot of drugs. They became millionaires thanks to their Bitcoin increasing exponentially over the time that they were selling drugs.

Oh, yeah. And they hit me. That's what I was thinking because I remember I had a friend that was buying drugs and he goes yeah I'm going to buy I'm going to dark web I remember like years and years ago and I was like

I had the same response like kind of what Jim was I'm like why would you do that but then I think about it now and I'm like he must have money in Bitcoin a lot of money in Bitcoin I didn't even

yeah I didn't even think about the people who were getting the Bitcoin from the sales so to summarize dark web good you've turned Jim he's good now internet great from the sales. So to summarize, dark web, good. You've turned Jim.

He's like, it's good now. Internet, great. Internet, even better? Oh, fantastic. How did we ever live without it? What is your solution then, Jim? Just you want to abolish the whole internet?

Yeah, I do, yeah. But I know that's unpractical, so we're here now. But I do think that everyone should have to, any comment you make, I reckon you should have to put your name on it. There should be no more comments.

Huh? Okay, you want to talk about dark web, where it's good or bad. Name me one good thing that comments have ever brought to people. Comments should just be abolished from the internet. There's never been anything that's happened. I like a Yelp review. No.

We're talking about good versus bad. The good versus bad of comments. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So just get rid of comments on the internet. Yeah, like kids making fake accounts so they can fucking bully other kids and that type of stuff. It's really fucking bad. Yeah, and then they kill themselves, the kids and stuff.

So anyway, that's a high point. Thanks for listening to the podcast. Thank you for being a guest. Appreciate it. Ladies and gentlemen. Thanks for having me on. You're you for being a guest. Appreciate it. Ladies and gentlemen. Thanks for having me on. You're in a bar and someone comes up to you and goes, that dark web's no good.

Go, well, I don't know about that. I do know about that. I do. I think you do. Good night, Australia. The holidays aren't sleigh bells and mistletoe. They're also airports, shopping malls and dining tables crowded with people. Some you're glad to see only once a year.

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