I Don't Know About That - World War II

Episode Date: May 25, 2021

In this episode, the team discusses World War II with Professor of History and Director of the Program in International Affairs and author of "Annihilation: A Global Military History of World War II", Tom Zeiler. Find his book "Annihilation" on Amazon and to learn more about Tom, go to his website https://sites.google.com/site/tomzeilerorg/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The holidays aren't sleigh bells and mistletoe. They're also airports, shopping malls, and dining tables crowded with people, some you're glad to see only once a year. Give yourself the ultimate gift of a stress-free holiday with NextEvo Naturals fast-absorbing CBD products. NextEvo's stress CBD complex gummies and clinically proven to have four times better absorption than the standard CBD. No other CBD brand can promise that. I had some people over for the holidays,

bloody family and friends, which is normally pretty stressful, but I popped some Nextivo CBD gummies and before that, I just started to like the people. I started to like them. They go totally stress-free. Nexto smart absorb technology delivers cbd to your system in as little as 10 minutes unlike other cbd brands regular cbd oil works more slowly because of how our bodies process oil-based ingredients compared to water-soluble supplements and regular cbd only activates two to ten percent absorption so over 90 of what you're taking goes to the waste. Nothing. Smart Zorb upgrades CBD's natural absorbent power.

It's scientifically formulated to deliver more CBD fast. The only brand clinically proven to deliver 30 times better absorption in the first 30 minutes. Help fight holiday stress with NextEvo's natural stress CBD complex gummy featuring ashwagandha. Ashwagandha. Clinically proven to reduce stress by 70%. Ashwagandha.

And CBD worked together to target the source of rising stress hormones like cortisol. Next Evo is the only brand that combines a natural patented whole plant ashwagandha that's eight times more powerful than regular ashwagandha. Believe me, than regular ashwagandha, believe me, than regular ashwagandha, and they're 100% US hemp-driven, smart-sorbed CBD with four times absorption than standard CBD.

That's wild. Get smarter CBD from NextEvo Naturals and get up to 25% off subscription orders of $40 or more at nextevo.com slash podcast. Promo code IDK. That's N-E-X-T-E-V-O dot com slash podcast promo code IDK. Floors Ceilings Some people call them roofs What separates the two?

Well, you might find out And I don't know about that With Jim Jefferies I like to sing me name Bit of fun You've never done it before Bit of fun, bit of fun I do it just when I greet people.

What stage does this podcast go at? When does this one go at? That's it. Today. Today. Yeah, yeah. Coming out today. All right, all right.

So I'll be all psyched up. I'll be off to Australia soon, going on my big Australian tour. Fastest selling tour in my career. There's only one city that has everything sold out in like six hours. Yeahest selling tour in my career. There's only one there's only one city that has everything sold out in like six hours. Yeah.

Except for Adelaide. We put on one, two everything we got. Put an extra show on. Put an extra Oh, we didn't think that would sell out well. Put an extra show on.

Adelaide's already sold two shows. Put an extra show on. It turns out that in Adelaide only two shows worth of people want to see me. I've hit my ceiling.

How's that not doing well, the third show? My ceiling? My ceiling. Well, for everybody who's messaged me trying to get tickets, go to Adelaide. Go to Adelaide. Go to Adelaide. Get a road trip. Go over to Adelaide.

There's tickets available in Adelaide. Everything else is sold out. We've got that thing in Perth where it's like there's still seats, but they're individual seats. I feel like I can get tickets, but only individual ones. Best way to see a comedy show. Isn't that the funnest way? Like, you know, the only people who buy individual seats at comedy shows

are some backpacker who's just gotten into town and needs a night out. Or comedy critics. You split up and you're like, where are you sitting? You're like, I'm 16 rows behind you. Okay. And then they laugh and they have to turn around every time? You're like, I'm 16 rows behind you. Okay. And then they laugh and they have to turn around every time. That was a good one.

That was like you. You do what you do on a plane. You get in and you go, yeah, my wife's sitting over there. If she could move over with me. So I've had, I've had the standard going to Australia. I get,

Oh wait, today's the 25th. Yeah. So you're leaving in two weeks. You have to quarantine, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. There you go. So I get, I get the, I get the standard, uh, people's the 25th. Yeah. So you're leaving in two weeks because you have to quarantine, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, okay, there you go. So I get the standard people coming to see me.

Whenever you sell a big tour out, I get the death threats as well. I've been getting death threats since back in the days from the gun control routine. That's pretty standard for me. We had a guy on our TV show called Arby a couple of years ago, and oh, fuck me, this guy. He says we edit in the wrong way and all this type of stuff. His answer was the same either way.

And then he put out a clip and he edited me very, very badly doing exactly what he said that I did. If anyone sees the full footage, they know I did nothing wrong. If you see the full interview, and I have the full interview, and Arvie released the full interview on his Patreon, allegedly the full interview and I have the full interview and Avi released the full interview on his Patreon allegedly the full interview on his Patreon which uh I think 70 people yeah I'm at the time it was like 12 12 people yeah so better than ours yeah so about 12 people he's doing something right guys but like there was there was at the time there was news channels and stuff like that were contacting you saying they were going to do stories and then we just sent them the full interview and then they apologized and didn't run the story.

So to anyone who's going to come and try to disrupt the shows or if Harvey's going to come with his camera and act like he's a big news channel all by himself, my answer is the same every single time. Release the full video, Harvey. Release the entire interview and let people decide. And if you do release the full interview onto YouTube, not onto Patreon, if you release the full interview onto YouTube, you can come on this podcast and I will give you airtime. I'll talk to you for 45 minutes and we can discuss what happened. Otherwise, I don't believe I've done anything wrong. Also, oh, I should add this, release the full interview. Even when he released the full interview on his Patreon for the 12 people,

there was a cut. There was a cut in there that would ruin probably his personal life, but I'm not going to release that because I'm not a rat, but release the full interview. If there's a cut in that full interview in the beginning or the little bit in the middle, then no dice. But if you do, come on the podcast. We'll have you on and we'll have a chat.

Also, were you going to say something, Forrest? I was going to say anything else going on in Australia? No, no. Also, I was about to mention this. The reason I was going to Australia was there's a couple of reasons, right? I wanted to go to Australia to begin with because I was being employed to be on Australia's Got Talent as one of the four judges. Cool.

That's awesome. Yeah. Congratulations. It was exciting. Channel 7 Australia reached out and they said, oh, we'd like you to be a judge. So I took this time off. Now, when I say took this time off, I had this time off,

but I planned to have it in Australia. And then that's why this tour is happening because I went, because the show just, this happens in TV all the time. You get an offer. It's like dating. You think, okay, this is great. And then the person just fucking ghost you. And I wrote back to him and said, okay, well, I've put those days off. I put these days off. I'm ready to go. And then nothing happened, nothing happened, nothing. Months passed

after they said, oh no, an offer's coming, an offer's coming for weeks and weeks and weeks. They said, I'll just sit still. And I took the time off and then they didn't give me the fucking job. Now, the weird thing about this is they said we're going in another direction. So the other day I fucking log on to find out what other direction they're going on thinking, oh, they must have some big superstar there. There's a French chef they've decided to use instead of me. That is another direction though.

That is another direction. Look. That is another direction. Look, he's probably very famous in Australia. I've never heard of the guy. Has anybody ever cooked anything on an Australian's go-to? I think he's a judge on MasterChef or one of the cooking shows. Right, which makes sense. Which makes sense. And they've gotten so good at judging a creme brulee,

we think he can judge anything, right? Because we're a juggling act. a creme brulee, we think he can judge anything, right? Because that'll be his nuts. That'll be his juggling act. Every note will be like there's a singer, he's like, needed more salt. A dash of nutmeg. If you're a comedian in the wing and you're standing there and you're like, oh.

And the other two judges are like a girl off Neighbours, which is a soap opera in Australia, a pop star that I've never heard of, and a guy who's like a comic who made movies in Australia who I think is very funny. I'm not bagging on the chef. He's probably a very nice guy. I'm just – okay, when we were doing it, they'd lost one of their famous American people

who were meant to be coming out for Australia's Got Talent. I'm not going to dob them in and say who that is, right? But there was a big star from America who wouldn't quarantine to come over, and that was the excuse they kept giving me for fucking just ignoring me after giving me the offer and then not calling me. They go, oh, this lady won't come in. She doesn't want to quarantine. We're trying to figure it out.

Then they say to me, they go, have you got anyone you can suggest? Wait, after they passed on you? No, no, no, this is before they passed on you. This is why I was still there. Have you got anyone else you can suggest? So you know who I suggested straight off? Our friend Kerry King from Slayer. Oh, yeah.

Right? Now, you can say what you want about Kerry King, right? He's one of the nicest fucking fellas. He's the sweetest guy you've ever met. Covered in tattoos, big beard, all that type of stuff. But a fucking rock god. The man's a rock god, right? They decided to go another way from Kerry King.

Is Slayer big in Australia too? I know they're big around the world big around the world um and then uh and then i suggested another one i was having dinner with john cleese and i just i said what the fuck i said john do you want to come and host yeah australia's got talent yeah john cleese would be awesome. Yeah. No, no, no. This is Australian telly for you all over. No, no. We have a French chef. Don't get the guy who's written Oscar-winning fucking movies and the parrot sketch and was part of the most famous comedy troupe of all time.

We have a French chef, everyone. Imagine if you're a young comedian, you're standing in the wing, and you're about to go on, this is me, big break. I hope the French chef likes me. If you can make the French chef laugh, you can make anyone laugh. I'll tell you this. I lived in London for a good fucking 10 years, and I performed all over Europe.

We did tours of Europe. Where was the one major Western European country we didn't tour? France. France. We landed there and connected france has no interest in watching english-speaking stand-up comedy whatsoever they have french-speaking comedians they like they like jerry lewis and eddie isard went out there once but he did the show in fucking french yeah whoa yeah yeah he did the show in french and like if

you ever go to montreal they have the French week. And look, I don't want to be mean to any French stand-up comedians, but you're not good. You're not good. I've watched your acts. It sounds like you want to be mean. I don't know what you're saying. He doesn't want to. It hurts his heart when he does it, but you're not good.

This breaks my heart to say this. Here come more death threats. The entire country. Come on. The entire country of France is coming after you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Luckily, they don't listen to us. Bring on the resistance. We're going to get a lot of links to mimes.

I'll tell you what. In Intolerant, I did a whole thing about being pissed off by a French guy saying fromage. Yeah, yeah. Not one French complaint. So I will give it to the French. Now, as you said, intolerant I did a whole thing about being pissed off by a French guy saying fromage yeah not one French complaint so I will give it to the French now as you said maybe they're not offended or maybe it's just we do not watch that slow forwarded to him like this man is taking piss out of us

they're like I will not waste time on him we went to countries I would never think you would do English speaking comedy in. Like Hungary, Czechoslovakia. We sold out a gig in Slovenia. Yeah, yeah. Even Germany. I didn't think,

if you say, who likes to have a good laugh? Germany never would have come to my mind. Who likes to have a good time? Yeah, we did Berlin, Vienna,

which is basically, you know, Austria, yeah. Yeah, and they were fun. They had a good time. All good, all good. And we've done countries in Asia where they've only just watched stand-up comedy.

South Korea, we did shows in. Done gigs in Japan and all this stuff. France, I've put in offers. Because, you know, you go on tour, you take your wife or your girlfriend with you. All right, let's get a fucking show in Paris. Let's get a show in Paris. That'll make the wife happy. Not interested.

Have you tried wearing a beret? We've rung every promoter in France. The answer is no. What if you became a ventriloquist and you had like a talking baguette? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, baggy. Yeah, yeah, baguette yeah yeah yeah that would work oh baggy yeah yeah oh baggy

that's the whole show that would be a true thing you just gotta talk to Buffett Buffett plays Paris all the time oh Jimmy Buffett oh Warren Buffett yeah

Jimmy Buffett yeah Warren Buffett does it takes his TED talk wasted away again in Cognacville yeah he does it with an accent thatacville. He does the accent. That's nice. He does the accent.

Now, I'll tell you a funny thing about Australia's Got Talent or America's Got Talent or that type of stuff, all those shows. Look, if you want to bring me back, I'm not too proud. I'll do the next season. You just have to ask. Put out the hashtag, Jim Jefferies do Australia's Got Talent. That's a long one. Pretty catchy.

Pretty catchy. Pretty catchy. Yep, rolls off the tongue. You know why I was disappointed? Because it's something that I actually think I'd be good at. All these years that I've had people review my comedy, all that type of stuff, I would have loved to have sat back in a chair and you get to do a golden buzzer. You get to do a single buzzer.

I was fucking – my manager in Australia rings me up like this. He goes, I've got a weird opportunity for you i don't think you want to do and i'm like i'm like try me because all of these weird opportunities that i don't want to do i'd never want to do he always rings me up it's always some reality show where they want me in the fucking jungle right and i'm like i'm like i'm like all right try me he goes well it's pretty mainstream and he goes a judge in australia's got talent i went fucking mainstream me i feel like you'd be a you And he goes, a judge in Australia has got talent. I went, fucking mainstream me up. I feel like you'd want to be a judge on any show. Well, this is the thing.

I believe they thought I was too high risk, but they've had Kyle Sandiland, who's like the Howard Stern of Australia, great radio DJ, a guy I like very much. He did the show. And also out here, you've had Howard Stern do it. In Australia, they bring out American people like, oh, we've got Kelly Osbourne or we've got fucking Jerry Hallow

or at least was in a group. They've got people who were fucking didn't do it. Pierce Morgan was a fucking judge of talent. Plus you have comedy and your background's in theatre and opera. And I have very exact opinions on dance. Yes. I don't like it. It's silly. So they won't get through it finally.

Yeah yeah I'd be fucking it. It's silly. So they won't get through. Finally. Yeah, yeah. I'd be fucking buzzing the dancers all day. You just move in your body. It's not a job. Here's the hashtag. Have Jim Jefferies to be a judge

on Australia's Got Talent. H-J-J-T-B-A-J-O-A-G-T. Get that trending, guys. Yeah, yeah. That could work. H-J-J-T-B-A-J-O-A-G-T we'll put that up put Australia

put Australia's got talent Jim Jefferies that's what we need yeah A-G-T Jim Jefferies don't use the hashtag judge Jim Jefferies

because people might take that as instructions you're judging me enough judge Jefferies that sounds like a good show I would have thought it was good now the funny thing is

so this is how far I got down the thing they had sent me got that. I would have thought it was good. Now, the funny thing is, so this is how far I got down the thing. They'd sent me the schedule. I had known my schedule. It was six weeks of filming. Now, three of the days was promo shoots, and then one week was rehearsal. And I looked at this rehearsal sheet like, what the fuck's this? And I'm like, rehearsal?

You're fucking judging things in a chair. All you have to do is, here's your chair. Don't swear. There's your buzzer. There's the golden buzzer. You're only allowed to use that once. Enjoy yourself. A little bit golden buzzer once.

Red buzzer many times. Don't swear. Got it. Just keep hitting the golden buzzer. We told you one time. Well, you have the schedule, and it sounds like they don't really. Got it. Just keep hitting the golden buzzer. We told you one time. Well, you have the schedule and it sounds like they don't really have their shit together, so why don't you just show up and see if anybody's dropped out?

I know who the judges are now. That's how I found out I didn't have the job. I thought I still might have it. By the way, in this industry, that's almost always how you find out if you don't have a job. Press release. My NBC show just went away. And what happened there?

They built sets. It's a horrible business. But I'm optimistic about working in it again one day. All right. All right. Let's move on. We'll read some ads. We all shop online.

And we've all seen the promo code field taunt us at checkout. Like, hey, I'm the promo code. You could be saving savings, but you're not getting them because you're lazy, lazy, lazy bastards. Honey, use honey. But thanks to honey, manually searching for coupon codes is a thing of the past. Honey is the free shopping tool that scours the internet for promo codes and applies the best one it finds in your cart. Look, you're saving money here, people.

Like think about it. Think about saving money. I remember when I was a kid once, I was walking past a shop and a $20 bill flew out, right? And it blew down the street and I picked it up. I still think about that when I'm sad to this day. It was like the best day ever. Yeah, finding money is the best.

Yeah, finding money is the best. And this is just finding your money. Honey supports over 30,000 stores online. Imagine you're shopping at one of your favorite sites, whether it be Jack's store that buys Grateful Dead headbands or whatever, dot com. You know, stuff like that. When you check out, the honey button drops down and all you have to do, I buy cough drops with honey. All you have to do is click a pie coupon. Wait a few seconds, and honey searches for coupons,

and if it can find one for that site, it'll find one for you. I just had one last night that got me 30% off. 30% off? What type of product do you buy? I was just getting stuff for the house and now I got $60 back.

My wife buys cat food with it. Yeah. She buys cat food and kitty litter and all that type of stuff. There's a coupon code for almost every single site that you would shop on.

I get these boxes right over the house and I look at my wife and I go, honey, did you use honey? And we laugh. Yeah, yeah. I actually buy it.

You guys do love that bit. I actually buy honey with it. Oh, wow. You buy honey with honey. You save some money. Oh, hang on. Honey, honey, honey, honey. Honey.

Honey has founded over 17 million members, over $2 billion in savings. If you don't already have honey, you could be straight up missing out on free savings. It's literally free and installs in a few seconds. And by getting it, you'll be doing yourself a solid and supporting this podcast. I never recommend anything I don't use.

Get Honey for free at joinhoney.com slash idk. That's joinhoney.com slash idk. That's joinhoney.com slash idk. Okay. Please welcome our guest this week, Tom Zeiler. G'day, Tom. Thanks for being on the show. And now let's play. Yes, no.

Yes, no. Yes, no. Yes, no. Judging a book by its cover. All right. Now I'm looking at Tom. He seems to be in a dining room, so it's very, like, you can't really guess from that.

You like to have guests. I've been told that you're a professor. That was slipped, that there was a professor on the show. So I'm going to say um okay when you as a professor do you give lectures at a university yes i do yes you do okay um have you written books yes i have okay um these are jim's first two questions questions because i may have read the books uh did you read did you write the biography of chevy chase um okay so uh um uh okay uh the professor uh is is you the profession that you're a professor in does it does it involve um

the human body um yeah i i guess indirectly yes i. Yes. I would say no. There are humans in the book, but no, it's not. Oh, there's humans in the book. Now you told him. Oh, okay. Uh, uh, are you a professor of religious studies? No, I am not. Good, good, good. We'd have to hang up on you. Um, okay. So you're not a professor of religious study there's people in the book I you're a professor of history yes I am all right so very clearly he isn't a professor of religious study

maybe made up okay so do you is the topic we're about to talk about war related you are correct all right is it world war ii you are really correct let me tell you yesterday i i told jim he said uh what are we gonna talk about tomorrow and i said uh it's one of the one topics that we made a list at the very beginning of this podcast of lists of things we wanted to talk about. And he just goes, World War II. And Kelly and I were like, no, no, that's not it. Like, no, fuck. But I did tell you.

I have watched days and days of World War II documentaries and I believe that I will recall very little. Every time I watch, I like to put on like a good old Nazi documentary as I'm falling to sleep because you know, my mind one is falling asleep and you're something there's a bit of self hate is what, as you go to bed and then you watch it, you watch one or two ones,

you go, well, I'm not as bad as that guy. And then you have a nice peaceful sleep. Uh, here we go. Tom Zyler is a professor of history and director of the program and international affairs at the University of Colorado Boulder.

He specializes in American history focused on diplomacy, economics, baseball, and World War II. I love baseball. We might have one again, we'll see. His books include Annihilation, A Global Military History of World War II and Unconditional Defeat

about the last two years of the Pacific War. A graduate of emory university and the university of massachusetts amherst or amherst i think you're supposed to say tom has served as the editor of the journal of record of his field diplomatic history served as a president of the society for historians of american foreign relations otherwise known as schaefer and been a member of the Department of State's Historical Advisory Committee. Tom has also lectured widely abroad, holding Fulbright fellowships in Argentina, Japan and France.

Woo. Yeah. There you go. Anything else you want to tell us about your life or the history of how you got here to be an expert in World War II or taught about it? Yeah, that's kind of boring, though. I love Los Angeles, though not the Dodgers. You don't like the Dodgers?

No, I'm not. I'm a Braves fan and live in Colorado. You don't like winners. When we talk about the war, you're going to go, oh, it's a shame the Germans didn't win. You want to go for the winning team, mate. Well, it's about being a Rockies fan too. It's like a high school team, but yes.

I've been to the, I've actually, I'm going to be performing in Colorado on, I know this is September the 8th at Red Rock. So you're welcome to come if you want to come and have a laugh. Me and Bert Kreischer. Sorry, sorry, sorry. I shouldn't have. Bert Chevron. I hope it's not one of those shows where one act has to introduce the other. I actually might go to that show. So I'll meet you if you come. And the night before, I don't know, like, look,

I have nothing to do with this, but if you're interested, the night before and the night after is Jimmy Buffett. I'm going. Yeah, Jack's coming. Oh, are you going? Yeah, Jack's coming just because Jimmy Buffett's on. And he thinks that I'll be able To get him tickets to the Buffett

Because I'm in the night before We probably will You said you would I reckon I could do it I reckon I can get you a ticket Into Buffett mate Alright I'll be there

Alright Jack is his assistant That you cannot see right now You can hear him Just so you know If you're confused by voices Who's also from Atlanta I am

Tom is as well Tom was like I'm going to pretend To be interested in that Who's also from Atlanta. I am. Tom is as well. Tom was like, I'm going to pretend to be interested in that. Okay, so Tom, here's what we're going to do. We're going to ask Jim everything he thinks he knows about World War II. And we got some questions to help him along. At the end of that, you're going to grade him 0 through 10,

10 being the best on accuracy of his answers. Kelly's going to grade him on confidence. I'm going to grade him on et cetera. Zero through 10, Red Skull. Yeah, he's the villain. 11 through 20, Switzerland, because they were neutral. Oh, God. Buddy, pick a side, Switzerland. Pick a side. 21 through 30, you'll be Captain America.

And yes, we know that Australia fought in the World War II. You will definitely remind us of this at some point during the podcast. We fought in all wars. Yeah, I know. I know you would, you definitely were going to tell us that. Okay. Here we go.

Which event began world war two? Oh, well that's a pretty loaded question. You know, like the rise of Hitler or something like that. But the first initial sort of push that actually started the war was the Germans invaded Poland. Okay. initial sort of push that actually started the war was uh the germans invaded poland okay what was the treaty that ended world war one that laid some of the unrest that would later explode into world war ii the treaty of versailles wow tom's like wow i guess don't need to be here. What was the Treaty of Versailles? It was the fucking...

I'm going to Red Rocks. It was the end of the... It's called the truce. Okay, wow, you're doing good. You remember more in the documentaries than you thought. We're keeping this pretty general, too.

Let's see how we go. No, but the questions are pretty general because there are so many details we can get bugged on. Who is Hitler? What was the last major attempt at a peaceful resolution with Germany prior to the outbreak of World War II?

Oh, I don't know that. I'm sorry. I don't know about that. You don't have to be sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, what countries were involved? What countries were involved? Yeah.

Well, Australia was a big part of it. Okay, so the countries that were involved? Yeah. Well, Australia was a big part of it. Okay, so the countries that were involved, well, initially it was Germany, and then the English tried to stop it, and then the German allies were, well, Japan was the one, and the Italians, Mussolini and all that. What were they called? Italians. No, the group.

Oh, the access of awesome. No, the access of... I love their four- the group. Oh, the access of awesome. No, the access of... I love their four-quarter sign. Is it the access of evil? That was the fucking Iraq war. I can't remember what they're called. You have it. I've said it.

Access. Access of... No, just say this. Evil. I can't believe I did that. So that was Germany, Japan, and Italy. Yep. And then England.

So the Germans also took over the French and the Dutch, and they all joined in with the Germans, although they had their own resistance going on, and Austria, obviously, and stuff like that. Hitler was a big fan of England, and he sort of asked England to join him. He said, look, we can take the whole thing together. And the English were like, we will fight them on the beaches. We will fight.

And so he didn't take over the British to begin with. Now, in the end, the English actually had an ally in Russia and Stalin and lots of other stuff, and he wasn't a great guy. He had a genocide of the Kulaks that happened during that time as well. So it was England and Russia together? England, Russia, Australia, New Zealand. I'm sure there's Canada. Oh, America towards the end.

What were they called? What was that group called? The Latecomers. That's one of my pet peeves about Americans. They're always like, we came and bailed your ass out in WW2. And it's like, yeah, you should have come a bit earlier. A little bit earlier, a little late there. But that whole group, England, Russia, they had a name too.

Oh, the good guys. Good guys, okay. Yeah. What is Auschwitz? Auschwitz is a concentration camp in Poland where maybe the lion's share, well, a lot of Jewish people were killed. There was also Dachau and different other little smaller concentration camps around.

Yeah. What happened at Pearl Harbor? Pearl Harbor, there was- You're doing good. All the battleships and stuff- Maybe you're not. Tom just shook us out. All the battleships, the American Army were all stationed in Pearl Harbor

near Honolulu and they were bombed unannounced. There's been theories over the years that the Americans knew it was going to happen but the history books would say the surprise attack by the Japanese where they killed several people. There's boats that are sunk under there still with bodies in there to this day, and they only got, I think, two aircrafts up to actually defend them, and a couple of people got onto guns

on the boats, but they were fought with very little resistance because it was a surprise attack. And when was that? Oh, the year I'm a bit out. I'm going to say 1941. And then, okay, who proclaimed December 7th, 1941? A date which will live in infamy. Yes.

That was the guy in the wheelchair. Professor X. Roosevelt. Not Theodore. What's his name? Yeah, the guy, he had polio as a kid, I think, and he was in the wheelchair. What country lost the most lives in World War II?

That might be a trick question because you want to say like the germans maybe lost the most or something like that but i think it might have been because we also had an ally in china as well because a lot of people don't know that we fought with it because because now in the modern climate you look at it like we sided with china and russia who who had been the boogeymen for many many decades since then you know what i mean and j And Japan now is the place with Hello Kitty and we all, you know. So I would say, I'm going to say China out of left field. I'm going to say China out of left field, but it probably will be Germany or something like that.

What was the Battle of Normandy? Himmler was the head of propaganda okay I'm yeah I'm fuzzy on that one it's a battle I'm never good

I'm never good I'm never good with the D-Day and the this yeah so what's D-Day that's the next question D-Day is where they storm the beach what beach Omaha

Omaha Nebraska no Stakes is it is it Omaha I don't know it's a beach Omaha. Omaha, Nebraska? No. Stakes. Is it Omaha? I don't know. It's a beach. I'm going to Omaha.

The Battle of the Bulge refers to what? Oh, it's Stalin and Churchill had a weight loss battle, right? Who would lose it first? We'll send you vodka if you win. Yeah, they're just like this. I'm fasting every third day. Okay, when did the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki occur? At the very end of the war, and I'm always fuzzy on this year. I think it's 1945.

And they sort of were a full stop on the end of the war. How many people died in those? Oh, yeah, fuck it. I'm going to say Japan had lost the most lives. Now I'm going to switch it to Japan. Okay, well, let's switch it. Oh, a million people. And why were those cities targeted?

I don't know if there's... I've always been a bit hazy on this, to be honest with you. I feel that they were probably cities that had, whenever something was bombed, it was always something, they may have had a lot of factories where they made ammunition or what have you. It's like, if you go to England, Birmingham, I've been told is the second biggest city in England, in the UK. It's not that beautiful. And I know there's Birmingham people sitting at home right now going, oh, come on, it's a lovely place to go. But that's where they made most of the ammunition and stuff like that. So it was meant to be architecturally this stunning place, but it

was bombed so much. And then they sort of rebuilt it in the 60s. And so they have some sort of shonky sort of 60s and 70s architecture next to that sort of gothic british architecture that you used to with the fine masonry all type of stuff um so but they did that because of they had they built so much uh so you think that's why i think it's army stuff was there maybe two more questions i'm probably wrong on that one i'm quite embarrassed what was the last battle of world war ii okay um last great okay so i know that i don't know what the battle was called but i know that the way they really lost the war was um hitler invaded russia in the winter and they just weren't prepped for that so i'm gonna say it was the germans versus the russians There was other things.

They were bombing Berlin and all that type of stuff. Me and you, we've actually been to where Hitler's bunker was. We've been to it in Germany. It's just condos now. It's basically a council estate. It's right dead in the center of town. And there's like a small little sign that's like, this is where it was.

It's fading. See, this is why's like, this is where it was fading. So this is why I always, this is why I always, whenever you get a statue being taken down in America and Americans will go like this. Well, if you take these statues down, you're taking away history. How are we remembering that? There is nothing, nothing in, in, in, in Germany that had all that old Nazi memorabilia or a statue or whatever like that.

And somehow we still remember. Somehow we still find the way to recall these facts. This is the last question. Which was the first Axis power to surrender? Okay. So obviously Germany wasn't the first because Hitler was still sitting there thinking it was all going to surrender. Okay. So what, well obviously Germany wasn't the first cause Hitler was still sitting there thinking it was all going to be all right.

I know that Mussolini was being dragged around the street. His corpse was being dragged around. I'm going to say Italy. Italy. Okay. And we, we can expound on some of this stuff, but zero through 10,

Tom, how did Jim do on his accuracy? Zero being the worst. Yeah. 10's the best. Well, Jim, he was really going well there. Then he, he was like the, I mean, he'd look, he seemed like the Germans on the Eastern front for a while. And then he, He seemed like the Germans on the Eastern Front for a while. I would say that I'd give him about seven, six.

That's pretty good. Well, the thing was, you didn't ask me some of the questions that I know. Yeah, well, I gave you some pretty easy ones. I got some good Hitler shit, man. Yeah, I figured you did. I got some good Hitler stuff. We'll probably do an episode on Hitler.

You didn't just do a lot of Hitler. I don't know about the Hitler. How do you do on confidence? I think, I actually thought he did better than his confidence showed, but I would give him a four on confidence. I thought he did pretty good. See, I feel like going into it, he said, I'm not going to know any of this stuff. His confidence was down for me.

He's not very good for dates and battles and all that type of stuff. I thought you did pretty good on the dates, actually. Yeah, the dates was pretty good. Yeah, you got all the years right. It was the other stuff that was terrible. I'm just kidding. So that's 11, et cetera. I'm going to give you five just because you're Switzerland.

All right. Oh, you like Switzerland. Okay. We're sitting around eating chocolate, making knives that we never use. All right, Tom. Oh, you like Switzerland. Okay. We're sitting around eating chocolate, making knives that we never use. All right, Tom. Like, why does the Swiss have army knives if they never go into war? It's a good point.

Good point. He's like, fuck. All right, Tom. So which event began World War II? Jim said Germans invaded Poland. Was it that simple? That is correct if you say World War II began in Europe, but that's correct. Okay.

Oh, tell us more. I've argued that it began in Asia with the Japanese invasion of China. But I think a lot of historians will say World War II began in Europe and so Poland. Oh, so the Japanese invaded China a lot earlier? Yeah, in 37, two years before. Oh, wow. Wow, that is how times have changed. Japan would never even think of invading China now.

Oh, no. Lesson learned. It's funny how all those three countries, the Japanese, the Germans, and the Italians are all sort of like cutesy sort of people, like, hey, we make sports cars. And Oh, have you tried snoodle? Oh,

a German like this, like, hello kitty. We're going to dance in funny Hiroshima outfits. And we're like, you three are adorable. So true. You three are adorable.

And the people we were with Russia and Germany. Oh God. Were we on the right side? Maybe not. Um, were we on the wrong side maybe not um so i asked him what the treaty was from world war one that laid some of the unrest that would later explode in the world war two the treaty of versailles so what did that what is that why did that happen what's the like what happened there that's what i don't know there was peace conference where they um woodrow wilson president, went over and sort of masterminded that. But it turned out that the French and the British wanted the Germans to pay for the war. The

Americans said, you know, nobody's responsible for it. Let's move on. Let's create a new kind of peace. We'll create a League of Nations, which was sort of their earlier United Nations, and everybody will get along. But the Germans, excuse me, the British and the French, especially the French, you know, have suffered a lot. And they stuck the Germans with a huge bill called reparations and said the Germans were guilty for the war. And so it it it created it hurt the economy. The Germans really couldn't recover for a long time. Then, you know, 10 years later, roughly, the Great Depression hits. And when Hitler rose to power, he was able to point to the Versailles Treaty saying we got famously stabbed in the back, that we should never have surrendered on November 11, 1918.

We should have kept fighting because we had surrendered on the basis that it was going to be a fair and just peace, and it wasn't for us. See, I know about the rise of Hitler and how he got into power, and I was waiting for those ones. I was going to be all over that like a fat kid on a cupcake, I was. But you never know. That's got to be a terrible bill to get in the mail for the war. You open it up, you're like, oh, crap, 36 billion.

I'll tell you a quick little story. So when I was in high school, I, crap, 36 million. I'll tell you a quick little story, right? So when I was in high school, I did history, and there was an exam, and, you know, you've got to sit there, and you're in that room with all the kids. Yeah, they're all there in this big room. It's like the final exam, and you're all scribbling down your answer, and you get to pick a few questions, and you get to pick one that you're going to write an essay on.

And one of the essays I had to write was, how did Hitler rise to power and gain the confidence of the German people, right? And so I'm there going, oh, because people were very upset about the war and all that type of stuff. And the economy was in the toilet. And so he came in with nationalism and then he gave people jobs, building the autobahn, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, right? I'm going as good as I can. And then I'd written down everything I thought I could write, right? And I'd done like two pages. And every kid around me was like page seven or eight or something like that. And I was out of stuff.

I was out, right? And so I was like, oh, fuck, right? So I wrote on the top of page one. I wrote page one. And then I wrote page two. And then I wrote page five on the next page, and I went, and in conclusion. I like you had lost the other day. Hitler was blah, blah, blah.

I signed the three pages. Then when they made a staple of the pages together, I stapled them, and then I ripped that last page off and the second page, so all my pages were loose when they came in. The school board of Australia believed they had lost two pages of my good work. And they gave me the average score of a student across the state, which is the best mark I ever had.

We've got to find those pages. I obviously didn't tell my parents or anything I told my dad many years later and he was like you know I reckon that was almost smarter than knowing the information he's not wrong I'm with him that's brilliant

well thanks to Adolf I had some juicy stuff in those two pages that they lost. It was some of my finest works when I really got going. Well, it's painting. He liked the color blue. What was the last major attempt at a peaceful resolution with Germany prior to the outbreak of World War II?

You said you didn't know. I didn't know that one. That would probably be the famous Munich Pact of 1938, where the French and the British prime ministers came to Munich and they agreed to divide up Czechoslovakia, give the German-speaking part of Czechoslovakia to Hitler. Right. In appeasement.

That was the height of appeasement. Yeah, giving them a bit of a country that they don't own is a fairly good deal. Yeah, but they didn't take that. No, no. There was a war. Jesus Christ. Not only did Hitler take it, Hitler took it, but the next year he took all the checkers in life.

Oh, he did take it, and then he just went, all right. I find it bizarre. It's so mental that any time in history where they go, oh, one group decided they're going to take the world. It just seems like a very – because the Brits did it. So the Third Reich – correct me if I'm wrong. The Third Reich – the First Reich would be the Romans, then the British, and then it would be the Germans would have been

the Third Reich. Or am I saying that completely wrong? I think the Reichs refer to the Germans. Right, but it doesn't talk about people who have run the world before that yeah well yeah the romans did a pretty good job yeah so what was their first two reichs then uh well i guess it was when they unified in 1870 uh under the kaiser under the Kaiser, right? Kaiser Wilhelm. I like Kaiser Rolls. In the summer. And the Dutch always, you said the Romans, English,

the Dutch always get left out of there. Like they didn't do anything wrong. They tried to take over the world. If you go to Holland now, they're just like this. Oh, and then the Germans invaded us. It was a very easy invasion. They walked in and people were clapping on the side of the streets and all that type of stuff.

They didn't fight. They didn't push back very much. Am I correct in saying that? Am I going to get some angry Dutch people? You probably will. But, yeah, it's very flat. You'd invade. Yeah.

So what countries were involved? Jim said Australia was a huge part. Huge. Very good on all of those though he didn't know the name of the good guys yeah oh yeah they called him the late comers oh the justice league fuck no that one those would be the allies oh i always thought just the word ally was just sort of used like we're all allies. I didn't know that's what we called ourselves. I don't know. I don't know if that word exists.

Is that word? Yeah. It was technically that that is correct. I mean, they were the ally powers of the United Nations. We actually did not have an alliance with any of those countries. We hadn't had an alliance since the one with france in the revolution american revolution and when you say we we're talking about america united states but they were sort of called the allied powers or the united nations later in the war did germany think of themselves

as the allies now now they were the axis that was myis. That was much more, you know, formidable. Now, this might be a silly question because history is what it is now and we all know that the Nazis were the bad guys and we know now about the concentration camps. Okay, so Hitler won Time magazine Man of the Year before the war walked out. The Olympics had been held in Berlin.

In the Allied countries, was there much support or any support for Hitler who they thought he's doing the right thing over there? I don't know if, you know, besides the German Americans who appreciate him, I don't think people, you know, liked Hitler, but they did appreciate what he had done in the Great Depression. You know, the Germans came out of the Depression much earlier than we did. World War II brought us out of it. So there was a respect for Hitler. And, you know, guys like Joseph Kennedy, John F. Kennedy's father, who was ambassador to England, basically told Roosevelt that we ought to get on the right side here because Hitler's going to overrun the world. He's going to

win. The king of England, the one before the one with the stutter, he was going over there visiting him. He thought Hitler was all right. He was hanging out with Nazis. They pronounced it Vinza. What is Auschwitz, asked jim is a concentration camp in poland a lot of jewish people were killed there we good not just not just jewish people it was also homosexuals and other different minority groups that they just they deemed as an aryan or or against the german state and is that that was the largest concentration camp auschwitz that's it was one of them that and and it was different than dachau in a way because dachau was had a lot of political prisoners auschwitz really was the jew you know shipping the jews homosexuals as jim said and

others to kill them though so auschwitz really was a killing camp i mean that was really late the germans had perfected it by then some of these other were some of these other words were like you know uh people who would oppose hit, politicians who'd oppose Hitler would go to Dachau, though they had their killing, too. Right. But now as Auschwitz, that really Burke Auschwitz Birkenau, which was the women's side of it, perfected the gas chambers. And where all the concentration camps in Poland or they were when the Germans invaded Poland and then into the into the Soviet Union. That's when they started setting up those camps because they didn't want to ship those. You know, they were very efficient. The Germans didn't want to. They didn't want to ship all the Jews of Eastern Europe all the way back to Germany.

So you set them all up there. So Bergen-Belsen, you know, there were there were a lot of them. So Bergen-Belsen, you know, there were a lot of them. Jelmanowitz, but Auschwitz is the most famous. Because those exist, this is not a question we ask in here, though, but as like people that are Holocaust deniers, like if all that evidence exists there, like how does that, like why? I don't even understand the motive behind that, like with people like that. You're asking why do people deny the Holocaust?

Why do people believe in QAnon? Why are they? No, but that's different though. But QAnon is like a, just a made up thing that the, the Holocaust happened. Right. You know what I'm saying?

Like there's, there's tons of evidence. I mean, it's not like, it's not even, it's like almost offensive. I mean, obviously it's offensive to ask,

but it's like, I just, what? You think it's almost offensive? It's very offensive. It's almost offensive that 6 million people. But I just, I just mean like? I don't even know. You think it's almost offensive? It's very offensive. It's almost offensive that six million people are killed.

No, but I just, I just mean like, I don't, it, with, there's places where you can still visit where it happened and stuff.

Oh, I've, I've been there. It's, some people are stupid. It's quite a harrowing. Okay. Should we kill these people

that are, we should kill them. Um, all right. What happened at Pearl Harbor? When was that? Jim said all the battleships were stationed there and they were bombed, unannounced by Japan.

They killed several people. He said several people. That's a lot. It wasn't just battleships. It was also aircraft carriers and stuff like that. 1941 was the year you said, too. So there were no aircraft carriers there okay american aircraft carriers jim you alluded to the fact that some people believe there was a conspiracy that the americans

knew they were attacking that's that's pretty much debunked now uh but it was very fortunate that the four american aircraft carriers were out at sea somewhere well one was back a couple were back in repairs in california and one was on maneuvers. That would have changed the war if the Japanese had found those and bombed those. How have they debunked the conspiracy? Like I've always been told that like some, there was some generals and stuff like that that have said that this attack might happen.

It's going to happen. It's similar to 9-11. There was some intel that this might happen, but I imagine they didn't know the date or when or where or whatever, but the Japanese were building an air force to do something. Absolutely correct. And they knew there was going to be an attack. The American intelligence knew there was. They just knew it was going to be in the Philippines, though. Nobody dreamed that they'd come across the Pacific in in the winter or almost winter.

And and there were when that fleet came across secretly, it was detected by a few merchant ships. But, you know, in real time, Roosevelt was getting hundreds and hundreds of cables on his desk. So, you know, so was the Army and Navy. They were unprepared. Hard to imagine that an American president would let Americans be sitting ducks, you know, and sacrifice that many lives. And, you know, above all, too, we're always shocked when there's surprises. We're shocked by 9-11, you know, because we're so smart. How could how could a 9-11 happen? How could a Pearl Harbor happen? How could the Israelis allow the Yom Kippur or the Egyptians to surprise attack? You know, we're always how how could we be surprised by a pandemic? Right. Yeah. So so there's sort of an arrogance there, too.

But I think historians have gone back into detail and said, yes, they should have known. And there were six investigations after Pearl Harbor and really just dug up that it was just laziness, neglect, just the usual. My experience in life, and we talked about something earlier on in this podcast, but my experience in life is when people start going, oh, the government, this, the government, there was no moon landing. There was this, there was this.

Oh, the government are trying to record all your messages and all this stuff. And they're like, okay, maybe they're trying to do different things and all that type of stuff. But I know from having probably 20 different jobs in my life, almost everyone is incompetent. Right. It's more surprising to meet someone who's good at their job than to meet someone who is bad at their job. And that goes right to the top, right to the top of any corporation

or anything like that. So there was just people who, at the moment we've run out of gasoline on the East Coast because someone put a Roku in the side of a computer and now it's been hacked and now we we have no GATT for any cars over there because a guy wanted to watch CSI Miami, right? That's not me. That's a real thing because people are fucking incompetent. Yeah, I used to work for the government.

Forest work for the government, people. I didn't know that. It was a county government, but we dealt with the state and federal. It was environmental, but I can just tell you that there's no conspiracy things going on there it's just a lot of people showing up like oh mondays huh i had a problem with my property tax because uh they hadn't been sending me the bills because uh they didn't send it to the right address it's my property tax. You know the address. You're trying to charge me for that address. You know where to mail it. Fucking government.

And now you have to pay for their mistakes. How many battleships were in Pearl Harbor that were destroyed? Or was it all of them when they were there? Yeah, almost all of them. Good question. God, I don't know. I've got six or seven, I think. Maybe more.

And that was all of the battleships of the Navy or no, just there was still some other ones, other parts. There were some others on the Atlantic fleet too, but this was the Pacific. These had been moved in to kind of, you know, confront Japan. Yeah. Was the movie Pearl Harbor quite accurate? And I'm asking that because were their nurses as hot as Kate Beckinsale?

Yeah, by and large, yes. Absolutely accurate. Yeah, you take the good with the bad. It was a tough time. Wait, so that was accurate at the end when they sent the bombers over there to do that surprise attack of our own? They got two planes up, two planes, correct? Well, those were the Doolittle bombers.

Yes. Well, the Doolittle raid was true. And Roosevelt only did that as a morale booster, just to show that and really to show the Japanese, we're coming for you. And we can do it whenever we want. But we're going to turn to Europe now and fight that war. But yes, that Doolittle raid was true. A lot of those guys had to bail out over China. Some of them got killed and it flew over Tokyo. The Japanese looked up Japanese, you know, and living in Tokyo, looked up and couldn't believe, you know, they waved. They thought they were Japanese bombers. Godzilla tried to swipe them out of the sky. Absolutely. You know, one thing that's interesting, too, you know, when you ask about battleships, too, as Jim mentioned, the aircraft, this became the aircraft war, the Pacific War.

So battleships weren't obsolete, but they just weren't as important. They were massive. And the Japanese built some massive ones, too. But really, it was an era. It was the age of the aircraft carrier or at least came. Yeah, I was I was mentioning yesterday when we were talking about my grandfather fought in World War II. He was at the very end. He was a tail gunner in a B-17, yeah. And it was called French Dressing. It was the name of the plane.

And I couldn't find a photo of it. But it was at the end. And I don't think he went on any mission. I think he got to England, and then they were like, war's over pretty much at the end and came back. But you were saying that that would have been very dangerous. As I mentioned to you, that was one of the most dangerous. And it didn't matter if you were a gunner, a pilot navigator. These guys, these guys really lost their lives.

I mean, again, as I told you at one point, they were saying there were more British and Americans killed in the air war. Then, you know, landed on Iwo Jima Americans land on Iwo Jima, which is looked at as the horror show for the U S Marines. So very dangerous. Who proclaimed December 7th, 1941, a day, which will live in infamy.

You said the guy in the wheelchair. I said Roosevelt. Oh, Roosevelt. Okay. Yeah. I always think that. Theodore,

that was a cause, you know, a distant cause. It was Franklin, but you got that right. Yeah. I always get mixed up. Theodore and Okay. Yeah. I always think that. Theodore, that was a distant cousin. It was Franklin. But you got that right. Yeah, I always get mixed up Theodore and Franklin. Yeah. Theodore's whose teddy bears are named after.

That's why they're called teddy bears. Did you know that? Oh, really? He wouldn't shoot a bear. And so they started manufacturing this thing like he was a big softy and called them teddy bears after Theodore. They were teddy and that's why they're called teddy bears. I know that.

My mother collected teddy bears. So see if they had a teddy, and that's why they're called teddy bears. I know that one. Dear protefacts. My mother collected teddy bears, so that's a thing that I know. I mean, I know. Being a collector of teddy bears is called an arctophile. There you go. There you go. Dinner party fact. Dinner party fact.

Archaeopatrics. It is funny. It says, a date which will live in infamy. That's like a famous quote, but what else is he going to say? December 7, 1941. A date where some bad things happened. Like, of course. Pretty bad day.

Yeah, not a good day. Several people died. Several people. What country lost the most lives in World War II? Jim said China, then he switched it to Germany. No, probably Germany, then switched to Japan. I switched to Japan because of the bombs. All three incorrect.

What about collectively? Yes, it was the Soviet Union that lost about half of the lives lost in World War II were Soviet lives. A lot of those civilian. Again, you know, World War I, I think it was like 20% of the deaths were civilians. World War II, tremendous. I mean, 20% of the deaths were civilians. World War II, tremendous. I mean, two-thirds of the lives lost were civilians. And we still don't know. I mean, I've written about this too, but now it's upwards.

I had thought there were about 65 million died. Some historians now are saying about 80 million people died. I mean, people were vaporized or just disappeared. I mean, people were vaporized or just disappeared, you know. But yes, the Soviets after the war was estimated about 27 million Soviets. Wait, so there's 80 million total in the whole war? Yeah. You know, this varies.

Some believe it's 50, some believe 80. But yes, total war deaths now has reached upwards of 80 million. And I think it's probably more like 65 million, but you know. And how many of the were civilians again? You said two thirds? Two thirds of the deaths in World War II. Whoa. That's crazy. Zero civilian deaths for Americans though. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, and, and, and if you think about the Soviet side too, if you think of the Germans, Germans right too on the Eastern front, which we don't talk about as much as we do the Western front, but you know,

four out of five Germans who died in the war and the soldiers died on that Eastern front, the hands of the Soviets. So that's, you know, it was, it was brutal. It was horrible. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um, what was the battle of Normandy? Jim didn't know. Yeah. I forgot her name. Well, he didn't know the D-Day. So the Battle of Normandy was the D-Day landings and then into the invasion of France

and the opening of the Western Front. D-Day, that's half a point right there. Talk to him, talk to Tom. He's a professor. So D-Day was, they stormed the beaches of omaha i thought well the omaha is one of the four beaches that was a beach of the united states stormed and that was the worst of it that was the the toughest but there were other sword and juno the canadians and british uh um there were there were four other there were four beaches total but omaha

was one yes that was a d-day landings. And the Australians stormed Bondi. I was going to say, it's got to suck to fight a war on a beach. You're like, oh, man, I'd much be rather having a drink on this. Well, it's just also sand. It's much harder to walk in. Sand in your boots. Here's a little bit off topic, but this is what I do. I was watching Mythbusters.

a little bit off topic, but this is what I do. I was watching Mythbusters, right? And Mythbusters reckons that if you are underwater, you can't get shot. And they put like a big block of jelly underneath, like silicon, under the water. They had shotguns, boom. And as soon as the bullet hits the cold water,

the bullet just breaks into parts because it's so hot and it comes so fast. If you're about three feet underwater, you can't get shot, right? Mythbusters. Fucking saving Private Ryan. Everyone's getting shot under the water. It lost me a bit. Were people getting shot underwater?

Like, I don't know. People died then that day. Oh, no. If you stick your head up, eventually you've got to stick your head up. Yeah. Right? You can't just stay under there the whole time with a straw going, I'll just sit this war out.

Right? But, yeah, that was one of the horrific things. The bullets would go underneath and the blood and all that type of stuff. But was that fairly accurate, the Saving Private Ryan? Would that be the movie that was the most accurate depiction? Very accurate. Although, you know, most of the people who landed at D-Day, if they died in the water, drowned

because they're, you know, especially the Americans were unprepared to carry 60 to 80 pound packs, you know, and jump off these boats. So, but yes, in fact, I saw that film first with some veterans who had to get up and leave, who had been

at D-Day and couldn't, they said the sound was so realist. Yeah. Yeah. I remember reading that, that veterans had a tough time, that World War II veterans had a tough time watching that movie. So, yeah. The Battle of the Bulge refers to, Jim didn't know this either. He said it was a weight loss battle.

Me and my brother are having one at the moment. We text each other about once a week and we give our weights. It is offensive. They still use that term, the battle of the bold, when they do ads and stuff. But I'm assuming people died in this. Yeah, the battle of the bold is no good. It was the push of

the Allied forces into Germany and then Hitler for some reason decided he would focus on the Western front and not the Soviets who were racing toward Berlin. And he pushed the Americans and British and Canadian forces and probably some Australian back into a pocket that bulged out. It sort of pushed Americans. You know, it was December 1944. It looked like we were the war is going to end. We're going to race into Berlin. And the Germans resisted and pushed us back. So it was that in December, January, it was over by January, but it was very brutal, very disappointing,

very brutal part of the war as the Germans sort of, and Hitler believed that he could push them. He always thought the Americans were soft, could push them back all the way to the English channel and open up Rotterdam and Amsterdam again too. That opens up a question. Why did I say a lot of things about Americans and have a lot of opinions on Americans and I myself am an American, I have an American child and everything? There's a lot of names you can call Americans,

but I would never call them soft. They are a scary bunch of people. All you've got to do is watch you all stand up at a baseball game and sing God Bless America and not take your hat off in time to know that you're in a fucking world of pain. Why did Hitler think they were soft? You know, they'd come into the war late. They hadn't done well in North Africa.

Americans did. We're fast learners. But it was really the British who kind of taught them a lot of that, you know, how to fight. Yeah. Americans were as tough. And if you just look at the Pacific War, it was tough, too. But Hitler, Hitler didn't have a whole lot of respect for the United States. It was a mongrel nation of immigrants, corrupt and, you know, weren't ready. You know, and interestingly, too, it's kind of getting off topic, but at the Battle of the Bulge, there have been studies done of the Americans shooting back at the Germans. Well, seven out of 10 Americans did not shoot back at Germans. They either put their rifles in the air

or couldn't shoot. They're paralyzed with fear, which is very typical in warfare. Very typical. But I think the Germans realized that some of these troops weren't as seasoned. You needed to get those boys from Kentucky and Tennessee. They knew how to shoot and kill.

But a lot of the Americans were not as veteran. Not as veteran troops. They're just Californian kids that are like, oh, no, the thing. Oh, man. Rancho Cucamonga. There you go. When did the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki occur?

He said 1945. I think that's right. Correct. Correct. How many people died in those? A million people, he said. Not correct. Correct. How many people died? A million people, he said. Not correct. Yeah. Initially for Hiroshima, about eighty five thousand died in Nagasaki. Less radiation after it. You know, then you had another hundred thousand or one hundred fifty thousand more.

But, you know, the fire bombings in March of 1945 of Tokyo killed 150,000 or so, much more than the atomic bombs. So why don't they get a bit more precious? Just because it was the only time we dropped atomic bombs? Yes. Yes. It was a new, obviously a new kind of weapon. And then the Japanese surrendered right after it, right after that. It wasn't the sole reason they surrendered.

right after it, right after that. It wasn't the sole reason they surrendered. They really surrendered because the Soviets broke their neutrality pact and invaded China and Manchuria. And so now the Japanese realize we're screwed. We're getting bombed from the Americans in the Pacific. The Soviets are coming at us from Asia. It's over. But the atomic bombs were a shock. Although, again, it's unclear how many in the Japanese military or government knew what they were. You know, it was so new. So when you were saying about like back to the Americans and them being soft and all that sort of stuff,

what was Hitler's plan for America? Was he to invade that last or did he just really want Europe and Asia? Or did he have plans for countries like Australia, Canada, and America? Or were they just going to? Yeah, it's a great question. I think he thought England, as you said, would finally fall in line. He wanted resources in Latin America, in the hemisphere. Likely, if the war had dragged on and he had so dominated, perhaps he would have had more support in the United States. But I got a feeling he never thought that he could invade the United States, or it would be decades before that would happen. His real concern was defeating the Soviets. He really hated the Russians and the

communists. I'll tell you, you why I think an adorable little story. Me and my wife, we met on a dating app. And the first time we connected, we both swiped in the same direction for each other. I lived in the UK for a long time. I'm a bit of an Anglophile. I'm very fond of British people. I like British culture, I like British music and whatever.

And so the first comment, the first words that me and my wife ever said to each other were this. We matched and I said, hey, nice to meet you. I see you're from England. I love English people. And then she wrote back, you and Hitler have a lot in common. And I thought, this chick's all right i wouldn't have expected that from her yeah yeah the first things she ever said to me

um why were those cities targeted the gym said there was a lot of factories that made ammunition there is that hiroshima for sure was on the list. Nagasaki was the last on the list for that second bomb. It was possibly going to be targeted. Kyoto was the target. If you've been to Kyoto, it was such a historic and cultural gem that the Secretary of War who had been there said no. The town of Kokura was the target for the Nagasaki bombing. The planes circled a couple of times and it was cloudy and still cloudy. And so they were going to run out of fuel. And so they said, we got to get out of here.

So they started exiting the island and the clouds parted over Nagasaki. So it really came down to weather. Wow. If it had been another half hour hour earlier or later with the clouds, Nagasaki wouldn't have been hitting. Oh, the weatherman must have had a hell of a day that day. Oh, it's a bit of a cloudy day outside. We're expecting clouds right from Monday through to Wednesday. Then it's going to clear up on Thursday.

Oh, it's cleared up on Thursday here in Hiroshima. Get outside. Enjoy the sun. Nagasaki, what's up? And why didn't they bump tokyo that would seem like they would just bomb tokyo or is that it had been destroyed in the firebombs it had been hit a few times but not by atomic bombs they really wanted to show they really wanted to hit industrial areas and they also were worried that if they hit destroyed tokyo who would surrender

and that would be the government um what was the last battle of World War II? Jim said Hitler invaded Russia in the winter, and they just weren't prepared for that. They didn't know for sure. It wasn't Dunkirk, was it? Dunkirk was really... That was 1941. Dunkirk is 42. That was earlier in the war.

The last battle of the war was Okinawa. Was the American invasion of Okinawa in the spring-summer of 45, just before the atomic bombs were dropped. So the Germans and the Brits had already stopped fighting? Were the Japanese just the last people to give up? Absolutely. The war, we just celebrated that, right? A victory in Europe day is May 8th, 1945. But Hiroshima was August of 45.

So the war went on another three months. The treaty to end World War II was signed on the battleship, the Missouri. Correct. I don't know what you were doing there. That looked painful. It looked like you were shitting out an answer. I've been on, because there was a couple of battleships,

I've been on the spot where the end of the war was signed off on the Missouri. Wow, where is that battleship? It was still working, right? It was still a working battleship, and it was in the harbour in Sydney, and they let people come in, and I was maybe 11 or 12 years old and my brother took me out and we actually stood. There's a little plaque and I think a little table with a dome or something on it.

But I've seen the spot where they signed the end of World War II and it was on the Missouri. Is it still working, that battleship? No, I don't know. My guess is they, I don't think they ever destroyed it, but I don't know where it is. That's a good point. I think it probably does tours now.

Wait, so who signs? It goes out for historical. Who signs the treaty then? Who's there to sign the treaty? There's Japanese military minister, Douglas MacArthur, for the American side. And it's, you know, famous photos of, you know, American sailors just hanging over the railings as it, you know, arrived.

And Hitler, nowhere to be found. No, Hitler was in his bunker. Hitler was already dead by then, right? He was already in his bunker with Ava Braun and he's burnt up, single testicle. Now, a lot of people, there's conspiracy theories that Hitler did not burn in the bunker and all that type of stuff, that he escaped out to Argentina.

I don't personally believe that, but that's the theory because we never got to have, it would have been wonderful to have a trial of Hitler or to even do sort of the Mussolini version of dragging him around and having a bit of a celebration or anything with his body, but he didn't give us the opportunity. Yeah.

And Jim mentioned earlier that when we were in Berlin, oh man, it was right before COVID. So what are the end of 2019? And, you know, they still have that church right in the middle of where that Christmas market was,

that was bombed out like the spires. And then where, where Hitler, where the bunker was and where he died, there are like apartment buildings there which would be kind of weird to live there I feel like and then right across the street is a huge Holocaust memorial

which is really it's really amazing yeah it looks like it's really I don't know if you've been there it's right next to the Brandenburg Gate so we went through the Brandenburg Gate and there was a man busking at the Brandenburg Gate. It's right next to the Brandenburg Gate. So we went through the Brandenburg Gate and there was a man busking at the Brandenburg Gate.

Me and Forrest mentioned this often. And what was the song he was playing, Forrest? Don't worry. Be happy. We're like, oh, here we are. When you're worried, your face will frown. And that might bring everybody down. And I'm like, we're right next to bloody Hitler's bloody thing.

We're next to a Holocaust monument. Don't worry. Well, he's dead. Don't worry. Yeah, that monument is so it's like all these pillars and on the top, it looks like they're all at the same level and you start walking and it starts sloping down slightly. And then you're all of a sudden the pillars are like 12, 15 feet high

and then you're like in this maze of pillars and it's really it's really uh interesting it's it's but yeah um i just think it'd be weird to live there where hitler is isn't each pillar doesn't it represent so many deaths yeah that's what i think that's what i was but i just walked through it i didn't read anything no no it does i have some pictures somewhere, yeah, but it was very powerful. I still felt when I was in Germany and I met German people, you know, we dealt with a lot of people there. We were performing out there, so we met a lot of the crowd, et cetera. I still feel like the people of Germany are still in a little bit

of a funk all these years later and they're still sort of like, yes, we did something wrong. And it's like you don't even bring it up and they're sort of apologising to you all the time. There's still like a cloud of shame over that country that they still, they can't wash themselves enough to get it quite off. Yeah, I mean, Hitler's a really dark state. I know, but that's the vibe I just got, you know what I mean?

Like, it was quite odd. Yeah. It's only an opinion, by the way. That's not a fact. Okay, well, then we'll give you a point for that. Yeah, you know, the other thing, too, was years ago, I did a festival with Jim in Austria, Meyerhofen, like a little village in Austria.

And, you know, Austria is basically like Germany. They speak German and they're just, you know, it's just like. Hitler's from Austria. Yeah. It's the same thing. And there was, so we had to get a ride back to the airport because they were driving us back to Berlin was the closest big airport. And this woman was to pick us up in this van,

the couple other comics and us. And so I thought I was supposed to meet at where Jim's hotel, he was in a different hotel. I was supposed to meet there. And I left my bag, which weighed a ton over my, my hotel. And I'm waiting and waiting and waiting at Jim's.

I finally, the van pulls up and this woman gets out. Remember she was very angry at me because she had waited where I was and she had to lift up my bag. And she was just like two inches from my face, like speaking, yelling at me and spitting. And I was like, it wasn't until now that I realized that how Hitler was able to take over because they're very scary. The German language. I love you.

She was, she scared the shit out of me I was like I'm so sorry I was like what do you want I'll surrender I was like

I'm just gonna take all my money I was like it's one thing to have a woman yelling at you in English but in German

it was terrifying at like 7 in the morning and the whole ride there I was like oh god I'm not gonna say anything sorry sorry lady

yeah it ain't the sound of music yeah yeah yeah bloody that's what Mozart wanted to write, not in German because it was a bit hard for him.

Which was the first Axis power to surrender? Jim said the Italian Mussolini was being dragged around the street in Italy. Correct. Dragged around the street and then put up on a meat hook. Yeah. That's how they make out the sausage. I saw a documentary. It was like one of those ones like World War II in colour type of thing,

and then they were depicting the weeks after the war had ended, and in places like France, they were really just, now that they were back and free again, they were really torturing what they called Nazis or just German people in the street. They were putting swastikas on them and lining them up by the side of the road and shooting them. Sort of when I watched the documentary, I remember thinking,

oh, wow, we should have taken slightly a higher ground. We won the war. Was that like just something that the documentarian was just showing a minority of people were doing or was that commonplace? Yeah, I mean, I'm probably referring to the collaborationists, right, the people who had worked. You know, women would have their heads shaved if they had slept with German officers and things like that.

Yeah, the French especially really took revenge on a lot of their citizens who did well in the war. They were shaving women's heads in the square and hitting them and stuff like that, cutting their breasts. It was like really horrific. And then the documentary was like, well, you know, they lost. And you're like, holy hell, get out some baguettes and some fucking cheese.

Do your bloody French thing. What are you doing? Well, part of that also in seriousness is the French resistance. Talk about mythology. You know, everybody says, you know, that was so, they were so brave. They were brave. Most of the French resistance were killed. Germans found almost all of them.

You know, so when the war ended, you know, I think, again, the French took revenge because a lot of people died. Okay. This is on topic and off topic. The Great Escape now is one of my favourite films and I'm sure you've seen the film. Fantastic movie. Very inaccurate.

From what I see, there's Tom, Dick and Harry, there was the three tunnels, but the American troops had already been moved out of that camp. There was no Americans in the camp going to do the movement, but then they sort of went, oh, we've got Steve McQueen, we have to keep him in here. And then they've got James Coburn and all these different... James Coburn played an appalling Australian accent, maybe one of the worst Australian accent in film history. Apart from that, there was one person who escaped or something like that.

How accurate was that film apart from the idea that there was Americans in the tunnels at the time? Yeah, I'm sure there are people who escaped, but I couldn't tell you. I'm going to take a pass on that. Good movie, though. I'm sure. Okay, how accurate was Hogan's Heroes? Extremely accurate, especially you know. I find that so bizarre. So Hogan's Heroes probably came out in the 1960s. Let's say for argument's sake, 1965 was when they made Hogan's Heroes. So we're talking 20 years after the war ended.

Where have we got our wacky Afghanistan-Iraq sitcom? When's that coming? We've done more. We've done 20 years. Come on, give it to us. It's still going on. We'll be out of Afghanistan soon. Then the sitcoms come. I always find that, like, now if you make a movie, I saw Gone with the Wind for the first time last week. I'd never seen it. It was my mother's favorite film, and probably for that reason,

I never saw it. And then me and the wife sat down and we watched Gone with the Wind. It was made in 1930-something, and it was about the civil war. And it dawned on me now that that movie was more relatable to people from the civil war than a movie made now about the second world war. There's more time passed. Sure. Isn't that interesting? I like your idea.

Maybe Guantanamo. Yeah. It could be maybe Guantanamo Guantanamo Vice or something like that yeah I've already got the name for the sitcom Guantanamo hey that's a good one that's a good one there actually was an Afghanistan war based comedy called 68 Whiskey

it was a couple years ago clearly not well what was it called? 68 Whiskey. It was some military terminology. You know what I liked about Hogan's Heroes is it was just like, they all were having so much fun in the prisoner of war camp. They were sneaking in and out. Yeah, and the Germans

were dumb. Hogan was banging these really hot German fraulein, like these women that just worked for Klink. And how many times were they gonna like you know not a they would get out of the camp but they wouldn't leave and they'd come back and they'd be like you did it again all good all right so we've gone off track a bit here um all right well you know i think we've learned everything there is to know about world war ii

we uh we covered everything can we do another episode just on Hitler? I think I'll do better just on Hitler. We could do that, yeah. Because I can do all the Himmler and the thing, and I can carry on about Mein Kampf. We might have Tom back to talk about baseball. Oh, I love baseball. Remember his face.

You'll guess that one, right? I've seen the Ken Burns documentary about four times. I think I'd do well. I think I really would do well. I think you'd do pretty good, but the history is, you know, I think you understand baseball, but the history. No, no, the history I think I understand more well. I think I really would do well. I think you'd do pretty good, but the history is, you know, I think you understand baseball, but the history. No, no, the history I think I understand more than I understand baseball. I've watched that documentary.

If you watch that documentary, it's everything you need to know. Yeah. It's everything you need to know. When you're at Red Rocks in September, I'll be teaching my class, American History Through Baseball. So I'm going to have you, I'll have you as a guest. All right. All right.

I don't know. It's going to be very close to when my wife gives birth. So I don't know if I'm going to be allowed an extra free couple of days. I've got to go lecture at a university on baseball. What? You can zoom in. So before we go, we have dinner party fact segment where we ask our guests to give us like a fact or something interesting that the listeners and viewers can take that they might not know or people might not know in general about world war ii well world war ii god there's so much yeah well you can give

us a couple how about this yeah how about how about this uh you you might know the term phony war when the germans invaded poland took? They won. And then there was this long sort of lull in World War II from really late September to March of 1942. What was though, there was a battle. There was a battle in that phony war period. Obviously, you know, it was followed by the invasion of Norway and other things. There was a battle, though, right after, well, in a couple of months after Poland was invaded. Where was that?

It was not in Europe and it was not in Asia. The next kind of conflict between the British and the Germans. Not in Europe. North Africa. Scandinavia? I don't know. Antarctica. In Latin America, it was called the Battle of the River Plate. It was Argentina. The Germans, the British Navy had chased German ships up the river. In Argentina. Argentina and Uruguay.

And they had a battle and the British beat them. All the Nazis were house hunting. That's why they were down there. Is that true? Okay, no. We're meant to end the podcast right here. You can end it. There's no rules.

Okay. Is it true that a lot of Nazis escaped to Argentina? Is that a true thing or is that a bit of a myth? It's true to Argentina and Paraguay. Absolutely. I always am a little bit, I'm on the fence either way sometimes about like when you have people who are Nazi hunters and they try to track down some 90-year-old man and they want to,

I agree with people who ran the concentration camps and stuff like that and the SS guys. Do you agree with them or do you agree that they should hunt them down? I agree they should hunt the SS. Just clarifying that because I don't know what you said. If it's just like a guy who's like a soldier, I sort of think, well, they were indoctrinated into that era. You know what I mean?

It's very difficult if you were a 20-year-old guy. Am I saying atrocious things right now, or is that? Well, that's a moral debate, too. I mean, you're right. The Mengele, you know, remember Eichmann? Yeah. And the Israelis get him in Argentina. You know, that becomes a famous movie.

Mengele, the doctor. Yeah, there were a lot of ordinary Germans. Not only that, though, there were a lot of ordinary Germans. Not only that, though, there were a lot of Germans, especially Germans, intelligence, military, that when the Cold War began, the United States sort of co-opted them and invited them to the United States. So, you know, we kind of forgave. Well, we've got the rocket scientists that got us to the moon, you know what I mean? So if we could use them, we sort of kept them and otherwise, you know, we didn't. Okay. Thank you so much. This is one of my favorite topics, Tom. I really appreciate you coming on.

Tom Zeiler, again, is his name. And the book, if you're interested, is called, he's written a lot of books, but Annihilation, a Global Military History of World War II and Unconditional Defeat. That's about the last two years of Pacific War. But he's got a lot of other books, some on baseball. And I mean, you can say those. I don't know where they would find links to all that. Do you have a website or is it social media?

If you have a website, they can look under Tom Zeiler or the University of Colorado and the history department too. And we'll link that in the YouTube. Yeah, Tom Zeiler is Z-E-I-L-E-R is how you say it. Well, Tom, thank you so much for being on the podcast. We really appreciate it. We'll try to get you back for baseball, man. I want to talk about that.

It'll be easy for me to guess the subject. So that's what I'm down for. Ladies and gentlemen. I'll say again, Tom. Thank you for having me on. No, any time, man. So look, if you're ever at a party and someone comes up to you and goes, you know the Battle of the Bulge with Stalin

and Churchill comparing their weights? Go, well, I don't know about that, and walk away. Good night, Australia.