I Will Teach You To Be Rich - 111. “We rushed into buying a $730K house. Now I can’t sleep at night”

Episode Date: July 4, 2023

Jonathan and Shalom are young, 31 and 27, married for 5 years and getting used to a big addition to their lives—a rushed home purchase in the Pacific Northwest that tints their relationship with conflict. Jonathan buries himself in the numbers. Shalom buries her head in the sand. This episode is brought to you by: Facet | Get affordable, accessible financial planning with a flat fee membership. For a limited time, the $250 enrollment fee will be waived when you sign up at https://facet.com/ramit. DeleteMe | If you want to get your personal information removed from the web, go to https://joindeleteme.com/ramit for 20% off. Methodology | Visit https://gomethodology.com/ramit and use code RAMIT for 10% off your first order of Methodology. Long Angle | If you've made a lot of money and you're looking for a community of peers to turn to for advice, go to https://www.longangle.com/ to learn more. Links mentioned in this episode • Should I Buy a House Now? (5 Guidelines & Perfect Timing Tips) Connect with Ramit • Get the Podcast Newsletter and exclusive Q&A about the show • Get Money Coaching with Ramit  • Download the Conscious Spending Plan • Get my New York Times best-selling book • Get my no-numbers journal • Other episodes • Instagram • Twitter • YouTube • Submit a question for the newsletter iwt.com/askramit  If you and your partner have a money issue and you want my help, I occasionally select a couple to work with, free of charge. Apply for my help here. Produced by Crate Media.

Before we get to the episode today, let's put aside all the long-term stuff that you and I know we should be doing more of calling our mom and dad going to the gym. Flossing, okay, yes, we should do all those things, but I want to talk about quick wins. The things we can do quickly to be able to be more productive, to be less anxious, to be in better shape, and even to be more generous. I'm talking about getting results in seven days. That is exactly what I'm going to be talking about this Saturday on the podcast newsletter. These are the actual tactics that I use myself and saw massive results in seven days. Yes, we should be doing the two year or five year, ten year things. Sometimes you just want quick results.

You can get this issue of the newsletter at iwt.com slash podcast newsletter. That is the only place you can get it. The email goes out this Saturday, September 2nd, iwt.com slash podcast newsletter. We put the offer down in the house in Lula and woke up the next day and actually heard the two weeks before closing. I almost every night I had like panic attacks. So just, yeah, like crazy level of anxiety, I think that the psychological burden does of death for me. I know I felt it like in my body, like in a very real way. We were in the healthiest place on the other hand, like had to make a decision, financial decision.

So a lot of the conversation we had was, I'm doing this for you, but do you want it? What was your monthly payment on the place you were renting right before this? Paying by 1,800 a month for rent, so. And now, what do you pay? We're paying $4,150. When I put my head down my pillow and I did, it's like,

OK, so even if all the numbers were fine, it just seems like there's this huge kind of liability in the house and you over my head. I kind of have this big, big truck like, oh, it's fine. Like, we'll be fine. And the stress is on him because he does everything for planning and finance and all of that stuff and I don't. So I live with peace and he lives with his sleep.

Meet Jonathan and Shalom. Jonathan's 31, Shalom is 27 and they've been married for five years. He works in tech as a program manager and she is a nurse having recently finished her second degree. and she is a nurse having recently finished her second degree. What we're going to talk about today is how they have started to disagree about money when it comes to their house. They recently bought a house, and I want you to hear the way they talk about money, and about things like getting a couch,

because so many of us will have the exact same conversations at some point in our lives. As always, remember that you can watch this full episode on YouTube, so many of us will have the exact same conversations at some point in our lives. As always remember that you can watch this full episode on YouTube, which is quite entertaining to see the facial expressions and body language. Alright, let's get to it. Why don't you guys buy this house by the way? Oh, that's a... I can't wait for this. I'll leave you speak.

They're just laughing. They'll have you talk. Yeah. What made us make the lead? Yeah. Yeah, so I think, uh, wow, there's a lot of smiles going on right now. What in the hell is happening? Everybody's like looking down.

I, I was originally super against buying a house. They kind of, I agree. Let's at least see what's out there. Kinda go open minded. Like, when we first started looking for a house, we did it as a date thing. Like, like Sunday date, let's just go see what's around. Saturdays, you know, like, why don't we do open house and see what's like on the market and how much it is

and what the process is? Because I don't know how buying a house, my parents don't own a place or a house at property in the US. So we started telling like open houses and that it just went really fast. And we saw this place and then we had to buy it a week after. The two of you were like, oh, like,

let's go on date night today. What do you wanna do? want to go to ice cream. I want to go to an open house and then you blink your eyes and you tripped and you fell and you handed over $500,000. Yes, almost felt that way. Just the most expensive fucking date night in history. And I think when we had the conversation, and this is like housing is so expensive in Seattle, and this was like on the lower house market. And if we ever buy a place,

and this might be like the lowest price we would get for the place, for the area we're in. And that was the rational I had. If we end up having kids that we're gonna need us a place that's bigger than like just an apartment for a freedom too. Like we both grew up before I came to the US or Johnson also grew up. It was a big backyard and like we had a very good memory just playing outside and running around. For me I want to be able to do that for the kids we're gonna have and I don't want to to waste kids in a very tight area.

And that's with that emotion, though. I think we rushed into, hey, we need to get the house. And whatever the house, whatever we can with the budget or with the price that we can buy it now. And then I think things go very, very fast. Like you start looking at houses and then you kind of get into negotiations and then things go very, very fast.

So the house we're looking at, someone else had an offer down. So I think it kind of gotten like out in me, you know, went in the house and then the issue is what you put your money down, but bigger and just pay them. What was your first bid for the house? So a first bid was about, originally going for like 700.

And what did you end up getting at that? So we had to counter with the full press. Yeah. Full was what? 730. I don't think realized just financially, emotionally, just everything that goes from the buy-in. What do you mean?

It's just, you know, you look at the internet and everybody says, you buy a house and then it prints money and then if you don't like it, you just rent it out and that's how you create generational wealth. What are you telling me? They're not telling you the full story, Jonathan? No, and you know, I did, I did run the numbers as it were, but yeah, I would just say that there's things that you know, you'll look at a spreadsheet and it works out the numbers may work, but I just kind of the psychological element of being that much debt and then how there's like

fixed costs are not the same thing as you know your other money just it's required for you every single month. All of this is hilarious and I really like Jonathan and Shalom so we're all having fun. One thing I do want to point out is that offhand comment she made about if we have kids we're going to need a bigger place, and we grew up with a lawn and it has so many good memories. It is no accident that when people go through life changes in America, they all say the same thing. I'd rather have a small wedding and put a down payment on a house, or we're having kids, so we need a bigger car and a house with a yard.

Do you find that interesting? Do you think that every one of us just independently came up with the exact same phrases? Do you think that other people in other countries say the same things? Or do you think there might be a series of organizations who stand to profit from you believing you need to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars at a very specific time in your life. Just remember, these peculiar beliefs about money pop up in very specific circumstances over and over again. If you decide you want to house with a lawn or a certain type of car, fantastic. If you can afford it, you run the numbers and it's joyful to you. Great. But do not simply slide into someone else's idea of a rich life.

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That's joindeleteme.com slash remit, R-A-M-I-T for 20% off. What was your monthly payment on the place you were renting right before this? Yeah, that was part of the thing that was really stressful. So we were paying, paying about 1800 a month for rent. So.

1800, but and now what are you paying? We're paying 4150, which I didn't put on the plan, but next year, it's gonna be going up 500 and then the Iraq, that's going up 500. No, no, that can't be because everybody tells me that real estate allows you to lock in your price and you never pay more. That's what the internet told me. And by the way, your utilities cost $400 a month, right?

Let's not forget that. Right. That's kind of a considerable jump, right? You went from 1,800 a month and rent, which was all in. That's how much you paid. That was it. To now 4,500 plus assorted phantom costs that haven't even really been added. Let's just say, I don't know, $400, $500 extra a month ballpark.

That's a huge jump. What a double. When I put my head down my pillow at 9, it's like, okay, so even if all the numbers work fine, this seems like there's this huge kind of liability at the house hanging over my head. It's just like those things like flood, there's mold. I mean, there can be tornado hits the house. I mean, and it's kind of one of those things where, yeah, I just, I feel that way.

Shalom, what happens when your head hits the pillow? Are you thinking about the spreadsheet? I fall asleep. Oh. No. So interesting. I kind spreadsheet? I feel asleep. Oh, no. So interesting. I kind of have like this big big truck like, oh, it's fine. Like, we'll be fine. And the stress is on him because he does everything for planning and finance and all of that stuff. And I don't. So I live with peace and he was he's so interesting. I wonder if there are any patterns here. The person who just kind of lapsed into taking care of the money is the one who's consumed with worrying about it and the one who you know goes to work and says like, oh, I trust him. She's fallen asleep within two seconds. Any patterns here anybody?

You'll see the pattern. Yeah, I can see the pattern. I think mainly in a probably fear on side of things. So we put the offer down the house in Lula and woke up the next day and I actually heard the two weeks before closing I almost every night I had like panic attacks. So just, whoa, yeah, like crazy level of anxiety, I think it started to kind of, the psychological burden of death for me. I know I felt it like in my body, like in a very, very real way. We weren't at the happiest place, both of us.

Me, I got to touch the house because we toured so many houses. And this felt like it was the house. And for Jonathan, one hand, when he says, no, he felt like he was not doing the right thing for me. On the other hand, he had to make a decision, financial decision. So a lot of the conversation we had was, I'm doing this for you, but do you want it? This is the most American story I've ever heard in my life. Two people are just going out for coffee,

having a nice walk, they stumble into a Saturday open house, and then they go, you know what, we should do this every Saturday. They do it for months, they get so tired. In their ears, meanwhile, people are chirping, saying, you need to buy a house, you're just throwing money away on rent. Meanwhile, they're looking at prices going,

how are we ever going to afford something like this? Then one of them starts going, well, what about kids? Well, we don't have kids yet. Well, one day we're going to have kids and then we need to have a yard and a lawn for them. Then the other one starts having panic attacks. Then they start arguing, what about me?

What about you? And finally, they go, screw it. Let's just write a check. I'm done with this. And then seven months later, they end up looking back and going, we're paying more than double what we paid in rent. Okay, look, buying might end up being a good decision

for them, but the way they made this decision is fascinating to me. It is exactly what the real estate industry wants people to do. I never had to live by myself after, so we got married right after graduation. So I never had to experience even after getting a job. What am I supposed to plan?

Or like actually like budget. A lot of it has been done by Jonathan. And even if our income, like our income is combined, but a lot of it is done by him. How we budget our life and what we do. I have early on in our relationship. I was kind of the one who just had a little bit more fluency around money, a little more background around money.

I probably didn't begin a relationship. Just kind of a handle things. I wouldn't say I was overly controlling, but just that's kind of a deep off role we fell into. So what is an example of something that you previously were totally aligned on financially speaking? Traveling, we do a lot of travel. We went to a lot of different places, Italy, Mexico, Ethiopia, Sweden. Yeah, we traveled quite a bit. So, in those areas, we tend to agree on how much we spent and that amount of money, where I'll look at two or three of those things. What would be perhaps the most expensive trip

that you have taken together? Europe, Italy, and England. So how did you decide how much to spend? Was that decided ahead of time or was it after the fact? Talk to me about that. I'd say we kind of went on with the budget. I think we did have exceeding it a little bit, but yeah, we were pretty careful on how we went forward

with spending and so forth. Who came up with the budget? Don't offend it. That was me, so. I'm going to guess that's a trend, right? Yes, and it's a reflection. I'm actually thinking about it right now. We do travel a lot together, but a lot of the budgeting is put by Jonathan.

And I don't even have to worry about like how much we're planning because he does a lot of the planning. And I kind of like trust you's planning. And I trust whatever happens afterwards. So I have a question for you. You said I don't have to worry. I notice you use that word worry is thinking about money the same as worrying about it. Sometimes, since we moved in, there's

a couple things that needed to get done. Painting the house and fixing floors and that kind of stuff. And now for me, it's like, let me furnish the house, but Johnson has been kind of like putting a pause on those things and saying like, we don't have the budget for that now and we can't do those things. And in my head, the house is empty. So we need to go and like actually, I can make it feel like a home. Is it empty? Like literally empty? Now, literally, but there are things that that should be there. They're not there. Can I see the living room?

Okay. All right, let's get a look here. House tour. So this is how new is this house? We moved in completely like last week. Oh, wow, okay, pretty new. And you just bought it, is that correct? Yes.

All right. So it's a little messy, but this is what it looks like right now. All right, hold it right there. Don't move. So we're looking at what is this your family room? Yes. Beautiful living room. And show us what else to read. So you think that's missing like a couch? Yeah. So like having a couch should be better to have a couch, but we have another couch. That's by the entrance, which is right there. So there's all the people on the floor So excuse me for that. Don't worry John. Don't want that couch to move on that side, and we don't need another couch And is that a source of disagreement with the two of you? Yes

Just pan over that way towards the couch. Would you I just want to get a feel for this all right? Thank you I'm sure there's more, but I think we get the idea. Yes. That's cool. I like that we just got the home tour. Thank you. This might be the first, are we the first people to have ever seen your house?

Yeah. I think we haven't had people over yet. So we're planning a housewarming party on a week or so. Love it. All right. It's cool. It's cool. invite. All right, please. Me and just a few million other people who are gonna see this. This is great. All right. So you

move in about a week ago and you've been talking about getting you stuff furnishing it. I say we should probably get a coach for the living room. And don't respond. You can go ahead and receive. Yeah, I usually kind of couch in terms of like, you know, trying to create a budget for it and then planning for it and distributing that amount we put every month to getting it. So usually I kind of for it. I don't get upset right away, but I try to have like, rational, like, I try to get rational out of him.

So yes, budgeting makes sense, but at the same time, we just move to a new house and like, after we do the basics, then we can save. Like, getting a couch and then we can put money if we need to do anything else on the house. So how long do you want to go before you get a couch, Jonathan? It's a good question. Probably a good year. So I guess I have pretty people requirements. That noise was shallow and bursting into laughter.

Why are you laughing? I'm laughing because it's funny to me. Like how can you live without a couch for a year? This is actually pretty interesting. It's funny, but I like how can you live without a couch for a year? This is actually pretty interesting. It's funny, but I can also see both sides. Jonathan says we should save for a couch then buy it. Shalom is like, um, how long can you live without a couch? A year?

Remember this detail. Well, this is going to happen pretty soon, right? You're having this get together next week. Oh, wow. The stakes are high. Wait, so what's going to happen right now? If you had people come over tonight, what would they do? Will you please answer that, Jonathan?

I mean, we do have a nice backyard. So probably, it's kind of like a long party kind of thing. So, standing? Could be standing, yeah, or taking blankets maybe. So, yeah. I can't see that. What does a house mean to you? As I said, we live in a community.

This space provides that home for those people too. Like family come to states with us, friends, traveling, they stay with us. And having that space for me is huge versus like, oh, it's just the two of us and Yeah, basically like a little shelter All right, what does house mean to you Jonathan? Yeah, I'd say a house

Tick-Tock, I do mean like just renting a house only a house or just house in general your house my house Yeah, I would say that the house is not really a good investment but I think for me also there's an element of which when I'm kind of done living in a house, you know, I don't end up in a worse financial situation, even if I'm not getting great returns on it. When it comes to house, he does not care. It's not like literally we can live and we lived in a 500 square feet apartment and that was his idol space to live in. So he doesn't care but you care. I care about that kind of stuff, yeah. You know when it comes to the house there's kind of all these different things around like we're modeling the house. So furniture is kind of the first thing but we talked about and the carpenters come in and do estimates, shown really wanted to get the kitchen done.

And her dad was gonna be about 60,000. I think that's what we were looking at. For me, that was just like complete shock. I just, I, I reacted kind of very strongly and said, there's no way, you know, we just put down a huge amount for our house. There's no way we can, you know, we can go ahead and for more money into the house.

I'm not sure I'd ever want to spend 60K on the house. I think it's kind of where I'm at. It feels like I'm putting all of my extra cash on something that for me, you know, isn't, I would say, as much part of my rich life. It's more of those things like experiences and so forth. And kind of one of those things that really triggered it for me, or kind of brought on everything was, we just celebrated our fifth year anniversary, and we spent about $1,000 kind of celebrating.

And it was a really fun time. But then, I remember about five years ago, when we got married, it was about 15 grand for a wedding. It was pretty decent, but first day we owned the house, we ended up remodeling the floors, and we paid the same amount. And so what kind of in my mind? You paid 15K for the floors?

Yeah, 15K for the floors. And so for me, I pay attention to numbers quite a bit, but the amount of joy and happiness that we had kind of a wedding and how much money we spent, how much, remember the create really a wonderful environment, a really wonderful experience, and then the satisfaction, kind of, I got from Wood Flores,

which don't go around, they're great wood floors, but just kind of, that for me helped kind of clarify, I think, where I see myself wanting to spend money. Sounds like you got much more enjoyment from 15,000 spent on your wedding than 15,000 spent on floors. Is that right? That's correct.

All right, Shalom. What do you enjoy more? Hold on, what do you enjoy more? You're wedding or the floor? I think, my gosh, this is so hard. The floor, I think I'm tuned to floor because we're gonna have it for the next 30 years. All right.

Okay, I don't even want to say already. No. Yes. Yes, I loved my wedding. And it is a wedding and I cherish that. But like the floor will last forever. Not forever, obviously. We're not gonna live here forever.

But, it's not really stupid. Okay, I was 100% sure she was gonna say, I love my wedding more than the floor that I walk on with my dirty feet. And Shalom looked me straight in the eye and said, I love this goddamn flooring. I am speechless. This is why I love my job. Sometimes I ask people,

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member to make sure it's a fit. Go to longangle.com to learn more. That's longangleangele.com. Where we live, it's actually more expensive mortgage than to rent. So we we couldn't make the money. It's about 3500 to rent a similar house. So we're already paying kind of more than it would cost to rent. Can I just articulate that so everybody understands it? Yeah. So you're telling me to rent a similar square footage, similar bedroom bathroom in your neighborhood,

it's 3,500. Correct. Everybody listen up and listen closely. It's 3,500 to rent a similar place and you guys are paying how much per month, all in, all in, how much what did you say? It would be close soon, five. This year, yeah, this year it's probably gonna be like five,

maybe five and a half. Yeah, exactly, 5,500 conservatively, yes. So just so everybody understands people, it's always cheaper to buy. No, it's not. So you'd kind of modeled it out. In your model, Jonathan, had you calculated that it would cost like 5,500 a month? No, I think I, the issues I use kind of these

like ballpark numbers, but I didn't actually like get the real numbers. And so for me, I think I didn't quite internalize it. Like I looked up online, you know, how much you generally spend on things, but because I was kind of using just general general numbers, I didn't really personalize it. You're picking like 1% per year for maintenance. That kind of thing. Which kind of explains why this couch has become a central focus. Shalom, do you see that?

Yes. It's not just the couch, right? It's like that old movie about washing dishes and who is it? Rosie Perez. She's like, I movie about washing dishes and who is it, Rosie Perez? She's like, I don't want you to wash the dishes. I want you to want to wash the dishes. I think the house has to do with the quality of life we're living to, right?

We spend so much time in the house, whatever we buy for the house or we put into the house, we spend in it more than we spend time traveling. Yeah. So it's not just the house, It's also our like dwelling space. Would you be willing to spend more on the house if it meant you traveled less? I think house would come first.

Really? Have you ever made these kind of trade-offs before with money? No. Okay, so if that's the case, and your income is sort of combined, and he worries about money, and it seems to work for you, then just add a curiosity. Why not just let him handle the money for the house?

Why is it different for the house? I think that is what's making this a little hard for us to. We both love to travel. We both try to love to try new things and stuff. I am more into doing interior stuff and house stuff and Jonathan dislike or hate that actually. So I think that's why we're having a lot of disagreement. There's like we don't have the same value when it comes to home and house.

But the rest of our values align when it comes to home and house. But the rest of our values of line around comes to actually like doing stuff together or sending money toward other things. Jonathan, where'd you grow up? I grew up on Baylor Island. So it's like an island in the Pacific Northwest. What would you describe your socioeconomic status growing up? Probably like upper middle class. Upper middle class. All right. What do you remember your parents? Was it two parents? One parent? Yeah, it was two parents. You know, my dad and our family, he's the one who kind of handles the spreadsheet. He's got a spreadsheet, just larger than I can possibly imagine. Horizontal scrolls, and vertical scrolls, 100 columns.

and it was all scrolls and verbal scrolls, 100 columns. It's, he's got serious records. I'm of every penny that goes out of the house. And it's kind of, you know, my mom, you know, she trusts my dad and, you know, he tested you a pretty good job at it. So that's kind of, I don't know, rules. So they get what have influenced me. Why did they talk to you about investing?

What age? So investing, I've actually probably got to give you credit for that. I think even before it comes to investing aside from saving, I actually came across that idea in your book and software you're in college. So you found that on your own? You don't recall your parents talking about that? No, I mean, I went to my parents afterwards and asked my download of questions and he helped a lot just kind of filling information. Yeah. Your parents pay for college for you? No, they helped, but I paid. Cool. How'd you do that? So, you know, I went into a fair bit of Diamond College, and in sophomore year, I read your book, and then after graduating, I lived what is an essential closet for probably a few years.

What was your rent? What was my rent? I paid $600 on the package. Cool. Okay. What do you do? So I'm a program manager in tech. Cool. All right. So your parents were upper middle class. They did talk to you about finances, but not to the level of investing. And you went to school, you sort of sought out your own education, found my book, et cetera. Live frugally, and then eventually I'm guessing increase your income and paid off a bunch of debt, right? Right. All right. Shalom, tell me

about what you remember about money as a kid. Where did you grow up, by the way? I moved to the US one, I was 14, so for that I was an equipment. Two parents and two younger siblings. Got it. Are your parents still abroad? No, they're in the US. They live here in Washington. Let's start back to when you were in Ethiopia. What do you remember about money back then? Culturally, from our remember,

like people don't really talk about money, but I remember like my parents would try to invest in like real estate. So they would have like one home and then they would do another apartment or something to like invest or like to put money toward them, potentially went it. But there was never a conversation with us about like how we should save or invest money. But I remember in college, Dad, my dad was telling me that I should use money to start with me not to become a slave office. And in fact, I didn't know anything about stocks

or any of that until my brother reached one of my youngest brother reached high school and he started putting money to hard stock. And I remember like coming home, you're about to lose a lot of your money. And I remember I was coming home, you were about to lose a lot of your money. And he was in high school, he would work like part-time after a school and he would put his money to hard stock.

And I thought it was just like some fraud that people had out there. All right, and then what happened? I mean, he is well off now in college. My parents didn't take any loans. He paid his college, and he bought a new brand new car for himself to commute. Yeah, he was very self-sufficient.

All right. Great. So when you graduated, how many years ago did you graduate from college? 2017. And then I went back to school again for a different degree. That's awesome.

All right, fantastic. Okay, so that's great to hear. And just so I understand correctly, you both, when you met, which was years, more than five years ago, Jonathan started taking over sort of like day-to-day what to do with the money, is that right? Is that common?

Is there a cultural thing here? Shalom where you grew up? No, it's not. Okay. And my household, my mom is the one who managed the money. And she's very much, yeah, like that, my dad is basically as in my position where mom takes care of everything financially or like, manage everything.

And he kind of said, he knows, but he doesn't really, I don't think he has the interest. Or I feel like we're in the same phase. I am interested to the point that I know where the money is flowing, the money flow is going, but not to the point like, I want to know exactly what happens mom to mom. I know it's in a good hand and it's a safe hand in my head. Okay, with Jonathan.

What does your mom say, by the way, about your money management? I used to be known in the house for spending a lot. And now? And now I think I'm better. And actually they warned Jonathan before we got married that I was very expensive. And was that like a half joke? Like, ha ha ha, she's expensive,

but also like she likes to spend money. Yeah, watch out, both. You know, even though they have different views on money, they're both very likable. They're open with how they feel and they're young. So even if they're not totally on the same page, they still have time to get there. Let's see if we can look at the numbers. Can you read off, you know, assets and then tell us the number that's next to it, please?

730,000. What are these assets that you have? I Don't I think it's stocks I don't think it's that I don't car property. I don't know. I think it's the house Okay, you don't know that's fine investments. What do you see? I don't know. I think it's the house. Okay, you don't know. That's fine investments. What do you see? 90,000 90,000 all right savings. What do you see? 60,000 and debt 600,000, 5,000 what's that total net worth that you have?

225,000 all right. Have you ever seen these numbers before? Not this part. All right. The patterns always show up. It takes me a little while, but the patterns always show up, don't they? All right. So I love putting Shalom on the spot

when she's never seen these numbers in her life. What do you think about this number? 225,000 as your total net worth. That is good. Is it bad? What do you think? I mean, it's good. It's a positive number. All right, that's what she's got to say. All right, positive numbers are good. 225,000, the two of you are pretty young. That seems great to me. And then what's this generosity number? So generosity. So that's kind of a lump fund that we'd like to keep. So could be generosity, just like, let's say,

we know someone who's in need, also kind of tiling for church. And that's sort of the thing. Just that whatever causes our report to us. Your savings is 16%. That's pretty aggressive. Why is your saving so high? So in general, I hear people say the rule for how much you should budget like monthly for house is at least 1%.

This really shows you that when you buy a house, not only do you have to pay those expenses up in the fixed costs, but you actually have to start putting a lot of money for future stuff. Yes. Maybe future stuff that you know about, like we want to do the backyard landscaping, or it may be future stuff that hasn't broken yet, but it will break. Oh, he's looking down and he's putting his head in his hands. What's going on? You mentioned landscaping, so that's a whole other topic.

Oh, well, why don't we just get into it right now? You know, I live for this. Sure. So it was the first day after we put the offer down. And I was at a family gathering. And of course, the house comes up as sometimes does. And we mentioned we put an offer down and I showed pictures. That's the thing you do after you say you bought a house. The house comes out as sometimes does. And we mentioned we put an offer down

and I showed pictures, right? That's the thing you do after you say you bought a house. So you people want to see pictures. And so I go around with like Redfin on my phone, just kind of show people pictures. And my brother-in-law actually does, you know, does a pair of bit of gardening, he's too landscaping back in the day.

He looks at the, like the landscaping is like, wow. You see landscaping back in the day. It looks at the landscaping. It's like, wow, this gorgeous landscaping. I hope you like landscaping. And just kind of give you some background. I'm like, I'm somebody who loves books. I don't do anything really other than almost alone. So when just when it comes to kind of maintenance, that kind of thing.

I didn't realize it until that conversation. And like, wait, hold on. Do you like your depot? I absolutely hate Home Depot. So like, I have a bit of trauma. I think just child trauma. My parents can spend like hours trying to find like a light fix. Wait, me too. Yeah, I hate this place. Yeah. like, six, seven, yeah. I hate this place. Yeah. And there's like something like that smell of like wood chips and chemicals and yeah.

Wood chips and despair. So your brother-in-law mentions this to you. And then? Yeah. So my brother-in-law mentions landscaping. And he's like, a speck of a thrubs. The thrubs, like, you're going to have to like hire a fir to do it. You're going to have to really, you know, go on YouTube

and watch videos. And as people say, I would have taken a saw. You have to hire for to do it. You have to really go on YouTube and watch videos. As people say. I would have taken a saw. I would have hired somebody of like Upwork, immediate, well, it's not even Upwork. I don't even know where you hire people to come to your house, but I would have been like bring up chain saw

and bring a garbage bag. Everything is actually in the bag. Oh, 20 bucks. Someone's batting me out. He gone in 10 minutes. I don't care how you do it. That's, did you see that? I actually, so this is probably one of our biggest fights

actually with the house. We've had some disagreements, but Shal was in the back here, and I just pulled my brother along, like, oh, well, I can just, you know, give the strawberry a trim and we'll need another one. And yeah, we'll be gone just done functional very utilitarian so heard like chain sigh and You know the shrubs and she got

Let's just say she had a reaction. Wait. What was your reaction? I'm asking very intently because one day this might happen to me and I need to know well It was just a sounded very gnawing. He was telling your people around the party that he's gonna just literally take that thing out when he goes back. And then I'm just hearing that, the lady who is here, she put a lot of work to it and they're not cheap, you hold them whatever you want

but they're not cheap trees. Oh, listen, keep going. This is so funny. Yes. So that's what happened. Like he wasn't even kidding. He was serious. I'm going to just go around saying that.

This is amazing. All right. So are the shrubs still there? Yes, they are. And who takes care of these beautiful things? We're trying to figure that out right now. Yeah, I don't want to buy generosity money from the shrubs, so I don't know. I just love the idea of walking into their house.

Jonathan and Shalom are sitting at opposite ends of the table, both of them looking at their phones, so angry with each other, and I'm like, hey guys, it's Remiatsati here. How's it going? And they totally set aside the years that it took for them to get to know each other. The unlikely journey it took for them to meet each other to get married to buy this house.

And they just look up and they start cursing about these shrubs. You know what? I have this guide I put together of questions to ask before you buy a house. You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to add an extra section on expensive shrubs that can add massive relationship fights. Go ahead, you can find that link right in the show notes. I'm not kidding. Click the link. It's in the show notes. I think it kind of goes back to my principal of like putting as much money as possible

I think kind of goes back to my principal of like, putting as much money as possible and creating experiences, everything. And just for me, it is a small amount of money. I could probably compromise. I think for me, it's just, I kind of feel I'm like, already at the top of what I feel comfortable spending for a whole housing expenses. Gentlemen, what did you just hear?

That he does not want to put more money into the house. There is a part of that. I think I've heard people often say, like, you know, any money put into the house, you get it back and, like, the top percent, if you're really lucky, in the right market and everything, you'll get about 80% back on some. Exactly.

That's like best case. And in my mind, maybe this is kind of where I have a small account spreadsheets, when someone says, I have an investment for you, and it'll return you 80% of the money you put in it. I don't, you know, I guess that's a hard time going with that. I agree. First, let's just clarify what Jonathan is saying, which

is that a lot of people say, say like any money I put into the house basically turns into equity. And so if I paint or if I upgrade the kitchen or whatever for $50,000 and I'm going to be able to sell the house for $50,000 more, which is largely bullshit because most upgrades people make in a house is purely a cost. You're not gonna recover much on it. Like, just go look at some people's gasoline kitchens or the window treatments. It's like, I'm not gonna pay for your horrible taste. I couldn't care less that you spent 30 grand on that. Too bad.

There are a couple renovations in a house that tend to pay a little better. These are all easily Googleable. But all that said, we should also remember that you are living in a house with your partner. And this isn't purely a flip that you're designed to spend as little as possible and squeeze out as much ROI, right? That's different. You're actually living in this house. Because truthfully, Jonathan, if you wanted to take that approach and we took it to the logical extreme, you would have old floors, you know, like you wouldn't do any landscape,

and because why are you're going to make no money on it? Obviously, you live there. You got to do something. Okay. The question is one of degree. How much money are you willing to put in? Shalom, what do you think here in this? I think you had a fair point and that's something I'm struggling with. I think communication is or clarity is a big thing. And I've been trying to communicate that. Like, yes, I'm not understanding

like the whole idea of like, it's actually not just a house, it's an investment, but at the same time, it's a place we live in. So it has to be livable for a bother fast. Shalom, what happens when Jonathan gets hit by a bus one day? That's scary. Yeah, I've had about this and we talked about this when I signed up for retirement. I got angsty because I didn't know what to choose and what to do with all this numbers. And I start losing it. Saying that like, I wish I had this education, this much education when I was in high school

or like the kind of education high school should be giving before I actually like become adults because now I'm like late, 20th and I'm freaking out about like signing up for retirement. Oh yeah, so late, you're so late. There's no chance you can catch up now. 27. Oh, that's it. It's over.

You had a chance, but you didn't learn it so. I don't know, he's though. All right. So anyway, back to my question. What happens if he gets hit by a bus? I don't know. That's a very good question. And Jonathan, do you ever think about that?

Yeah, I have thought about that. And one of the things that I think was really helpful, we almost never talked about money when you first married. And we've come a long way, but it just seems like because the house is such a big burden that it's forced us to connect on that deeper level. And I think we're still trying to have those kind of conversations. So, you know, if you have like a bad habit in some part of life, when the stakes get higher, that habit emerges. It's like, I don't know, if you're bowling and you have a certain thing you do when you're bowling, it's fine when you're just playing with your buddies. But if you're playing at the professional level, that's going to get exposed really quickly. And in your case, for the last five years, it's been fine. Your earnings were

probably really good. Now, taking a trip for an extra thousand dollars, no big deal, but getting a house is the biggest purchase you ever do. And so any lack of communication, any bad financial habits, such as one partner doing everything and the other, not really participating, it gets exposed. And there's a gap that becomes wider between the two of you. Does that feel like it resonates with you? Yes, yes. For sure. Like, when we had less to pay for, when we first got married, again, money was not a thing we talked about. It's just, you know, he made, and I made the money, we come together, we put some toward traveling, we went to whatever, and we never kind of discussed, oh, like we should probably like save this much or like, it just automatically goes to things, but now because there's this big thing

cold house, and there's a lot of things I want to do with it. I feel like we have more fights when it comes to money, more conversations that we've never had before. And yeah, that's totally right. Now, what do we get? What do we get to do with that money? You're going to set up your monthly meeting. You're going to talk about it.

You're going to have a calm way of discussion. Oh go, oh, you know what, I think, I think we misallocated this. Gosh, this is how I'm feeling. And when I look at this, this is what I think. What do you think? I don't know if I agree, but like, tell me more. And you talk about it. You go, okay, I see your point. Let's go ahead and amend it. Done. But you can't live your life playing defense with tiny little decisions like that. Okay? Ironically, for the biggest financial decision of all, the two of you both admitted that you rush right into it. So there's a pretty fascinating dynamic going on here.

I'd rather have you spend more time on the big stuff and less time on the little stuff. Okay? The other dynamic I want to point out is that this is a good start with the CSP. It does feel a bit theoretical in the sense that you like Shalom, you don't talk about a CSP, you talk about a couch. So like this is how I would approach this conversation, Jonathan. I'd be like, okay, Shalom, I understand that you want to couch. And what gets you excited about having a couch? Like, why do you want one? A place to sit, to host.

Okay, but don't we have that little couch by the front door? Also, the aesthetic. Oh, you see, you want our house to look good. You don't think it looks good right now? Not yet. So, like, if we were able to get a couch, how much do you think a couch costs, like ballpark? Let's say, let's say to a grand with everything.

To a grand. All right, cool. OK, so you want a couch? It would be to a grand. And how soon are you thinking you want that couch? When do you want this couch? I was thinking like, and maybe the next three months. Uh, okay. But then that's not gonna allow us, right?

The budget, so I can wait. How long can you wait? That's like, for example, you can wait a year. You can wait a year. Yeah. Okay, so that would be like, look at Jonathan's face right now. The guy's like, Oh, I'm impressed.

Shalom's change in perspective about the couch seems small, but I think it's actually a bigger lesson that we can all apply. Most of us go through life seeing something and saying, I want that. I want that coffee. I want that night out with friends, that car, that house. But very few of us have a system to help us decide.

We basically just buy whatever we see and we use very loose logic to decide if we can afford it. And then we wonder why we're not getting ahead. This way of making decisions stays with us as we become more financially successful. That's why you hear multi-millionaires on this show who still agonize over the price of gas or blueberries. It's not because they don't have enough money, it's because they are arbitrarily making decisions. They have no system. With Jonathan and Shalom, you see this pattern. Jonathan analyzes purchases. Shalom is much more casual about what she wants, but they haven't developed a way of making financial decisions together.

The couch is really just a symptom. It's a small thing, like training wheels. But together, they're going to face thousands of decisions about money together. So from my perspective, this is a great opportunity to develop a shared vision, a shared system. And just note, about 45 minutes ago, Shalom couldn't even believe waiting a year to get a couch. Now she seems much more open to it. Let's hear their follow-ups. Jonathan said, during the call, I was absolutely shocked that my wife said she would prefer to spend $15,000 on new wood floors than our wedding if she had to pick between the two. One of the biggest takeaways was the value in financial simplicity,

which can take a lot of time and effort when there are two people involved with their own dreams and perspectives. Simplicity is not a starting point, but something that is reached through a lot of communication and compromise. Reflecting after the call, what surprised me most was how much time we spend focusing and arguing about small financial decisions, like whether to buy a couch or which restaurant to visit, and how little time we spend on large, important life-changing decisions, like buying a house where to live, travel, and our long-term savings goals. I'm grateful we had the opportunity to talk with Rameet, it really helped to get another perspective on our relationship with money as well as each other. And Shalom's follow up!

Unfortunately, we never heard back from Shalom, and we tried even as recently as last week to reach her. I'm wishing Jonathan and Shalom the very best going forward. I really enjoyed speaking with both of you. And for those of you who enjoy this podcast, I'd like to encourage you to go to IWT.com slash podcast newsletter every single week. I share a new insight about money psychology right there on the newsletter. This is material you will never see publicly. It's IWT.com slash podcast newsletter. Thanks for listening to I will Teach You To Be Rich. I'm Remete Saiti. Please follow the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

If you haven't read, I will teach you to be rich. My book, pick up a copy. You can get it at any bookstore or any library, and it will show you the specific tactics for how to build the I will teach you to be rich system into your personal finances.