I Will Teach You To Be Rich - 30. “I want to change—but can I keep the truck?”

Episode Date: February 15, 2022

It’s time to create a plan of action for Brad and Becca’s unsophisticated spending habits that we learned about in part one. I want to get them away from the gimmicks of monthly payments and immediate gratification, and instead push them to carve out a Rich Life vision that goes beyond getting to zero debt. There will be resistance. The question is, will Brad be willing to lean into it, even if it’s uncomfortable to hear? Connect with Ramit Website Instagram Twitter Facebook YouTube Linkedin If you and your partner have a money issue and you want my help, I occasionally select a couple to work with, free of charge. Apply for my help here. Produced by Crate Media.

If you're in New York City or the tri-state area, listen up. This year, I'm looking to coach couples live, in person, on this podcast. So if you and your partner want to be personally coached on money and relationships, this is your chance. Now, whether you can't get on the same page with your spending, maybe one of you has loads of debt, maybe you're about to go through a huge life change, like a baby, promotion, career change,

and you're just stuck on how to handle the financial side of it, and you live in the tri-state area, I want to hear from you. Please apply at iwt.com slash apply. If you've been enjoying this podcast where I speak to couples and share their real numbers, their income, their net worth, their debt, all of it, then do me a favor, go over to Apple Podcasts and please leave a written review. It really helps us grow the podcast. And it's also something that I can share with my team who helps produce this amazing show every single week. So do me a favor, go over to Apple Podcasts, leave a written review, and it will be a big favor for me and for my entire team. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening.

for me and for my entire team. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. How much did this truck cost, by the way, the total price of the truck? $50,000. $50,000? I got 10 for my trade-in. I'm going to impart some directive wisdom. You cannot afford a $50,000 car when you make $115,000. Okay. You cannot. This is crazy to me. How did you decide how much money you could afford to spend on this truck when you bought it? Let me guess. Was it about the monthly payments? Uh, yeah, ultimately. God damn it.

This is what I'm talking about when I say you have to change your entire worldview. Unsophisticated people buy things and say, I'm going to put it on credit and then I'll figure it out later. No more of that. That's exactly what I do. I'll figure it out later. Yeah. You're living the unsophisticated financial life. And then it's no surprise that you're stressed out. All the same people who walk in the car dealer get swindled because they don't know any better by paying a month. Oh, it's only 350 a month. Oh, they just didn't mention to you that it's 72 months of this, including a shitload of interest. I'm getting mad, not at you. I'm getting mad because I hate seeing unsophisticated people taken advantage of. I don't think you should

have to be a master of personal finance to not get ripped off. It makes me angry to hear that you have been taught these things. I just don't see a way out. I'm Ramit Sethi, and welcome to I Will Teach You To Be Rich. We're back today with Brad and Becca from last week. This is part two of that conversation, and you just heard how we left things off in the last episode. Now remember, Brad and Becca are not millionaires. I got a lot of feedback from you that you wanted to hear from different couples with different financial goals and different financial situations. So Brad and Becca, as a quick refresher, have been married for eight years and they have three children. Brad is the primary earner with Becca working part-time and together they bring in

$105,000 a year. But they have serious debt. They have a $290,000 mortgage, a $35,000 car loan, excuse me, truck loan, a $25,000 RV loan, and $10,000 in credit card debt. Put plainly, they're overspending. And instead of doing something about it, Brad alternates between being stressed out with money and then going and buying whatever he wants. So today, we're going to pick up where we left off last week, and we're going to try to develop an actual plan for their finances. As you listen today, I think you will find a lot of their objections and a lot of what

they go through very relatable. Let's do it. Let's start with the debt. The good news is you have a little bit of breathing room. That's the good news. The bad news is you think you have more breathing room than you actually do. And the way that you think about it is you're playing a lot of gimmicks with yourself. You're basically bullshitting yourself. When you don't have enough money, it doesn't matter if you purchase it one way or another, you're purchasing it.

You can get an 18-month 0% card or you can buy it with cash. You still bought it. So what does it matter how you purchased it? Monthly payments. Monthly payments. Monthly payments. It's all moving money from here to there and 0% interest, but we need to put it on our calendar so we don't forget. It's all gimmicks. You're just stressing yourself out. You know what's better than all those gimmicks? Not having debt. How about that?

Yeah. And you know what's even better than that? Actually saving money aggressively for retirement, for investments, and even for, yes, a new vacation. That's awesome. And then you know what's the best? Is when you go on this vacation, you've already talked about it. You've built in a buffer so you can stay an extra night or you can have a nicer meal or surprise your kids and you don't have to stress

because you already built in that buffer. That's the best. Okay. But you're not thinking like that. That's more sophisticated thinking. That's forward-looking thinking. What you're currently doing is all reactive thinking. Where do you want to go? What's the destination? The destination is not having any debt. Okay. Debt-free. That's just getting to zero. Yes. I like that, but let's be a little bit more ambitious. Nobody wakes up in the morning and says, yes, zero dollars. Let's dream bigger than that. Where do you want to get? I want to get to a place where we have the savings to pay for the things that we want,

We have the savings to pay for the things that we want, that we are able to plan trips with and without the kids, that we're able to do the things that we want around the house, potentially pay somebody else to do it so that it's done all the way in an efficient or in a good amount of time? Obviously debt-free. To be able to spend the money that we work hard for without having to agonize over it. All right, Brad, look at your debt. What can you do about it? Let me remind you about their debt. Student loans, 600 bucks. Credit cards, $9,500. RV loan, $25,000. Auto loan, $35,000. That's the truck. And mortgage, $290,000. We've made a plan to pay it off. So the first part is paying off the credit card debt that does have interest being charged to it. Okay. You're going to pay 9,500 bucks off before the end of the year. Yes. Fine. What else?

Student loans will be paid off in a few months once I have to start paying them again. That $600 has been sitting there since the beginning of 2020. Yeah. What else? Start building a savings for the things that we want by taking the money that we use to pay for credit cards and putting it in savings. Okay. What else? I can't think past that.

There's nothing else on this page that you could do? Get rid of the truck. What would happen if you did that? I'm not worried about getting rid of the truck. It would happen if you did that? I'm not worried about getting rid of the truck. It's the RV that I'm worried about getting rid of. Because what? Because I think in order for me to get rid of it, I would have to take a loss financially. I don't think that we're going to be able to get what we owe on it, even though it's only a year old. So that kind of feeds

back into me feeling trapped because I feel like I can't get rid of this camper because we're going to lose even more money. So instead you want to keep paying $25,000 just because... Well, the kids like it. We do have a good time. Do the kids like that their parents are stressed out and arguing about money? I just turned six. Six-year-olds are pretty smart. Becca, do you think that your six-year-old ever picks up on the stress? He picks up on the tone of the house. That turns into arguing. Yeah.

In little kids, that turns into, Mommy, I just love you. Daddy, I love you. And you can tell that he's picked up on something because he's not playing and joking anymore. He's turned serious and needs to let us know that he loves us and he wants to snuggle and do those types of things. I think that's his response to it. When I look at your numbers, my wish for you is that the two of you could provide an amazing rich life for both of you and foster a way of teaching how to live a rich life for your kids. What a tragedy if your kids grow up and they repeat the same thing about, oh, I can't pay somebody to mow my lawn. So they're always

playing small. You know, you make over $100,000 a year. That's a lot of money. And I'm not telling you, you have to go out and hire someone to mow your lawn. I'm not saying that. In fact, if anything, maybe you should do it yourself. Okay. But what I am saying is you've hitched yourself to so many things, an RV, credit card debt, that you are forced to play small. I mean, the two of you are not talking about your rich life at all. It's just like, I want to get to zero. I want to stop fighting about money. I just want the pain to stop. That's what started our one and a half, two hour conversation is I was like, I want to live. I'm tired of not living. I want to go and do things. And I think we could go and do things,

but I also want to enjoy them while I'm doing them. I don't want to, should I order a glass of champagne or am I going to regret that later? Because he's going to ask me why I ordered a glass of champagne. Yeah. And how did that conversation go? What happened after you said that? It always goes really well for like a week. And then we're on loop. Yeah. You spin. Do you know why that happens? Do you notice what you said when you talked about your rich life? Can you recite that back to me again? I don't... What was that? I don't want to worry if he's going to ask me about it later. Your rich lives right now are all about what you don't want. Yes. It's coming from a place of lacking. Exactly. You two have no vision. It's all about, I don't want this. I don't want

you to argue. I don't want that. Of course you're not going to stick with it. It sucks. There's no vision. It's just getting away from pain. And as he pointed out, when things become painful, Brad, what do you do? I don't look. Exactly. Close your eyes and ignore it. My rich life has looked different than his because I think he never really envisioned a future without credit card debt. And I've always, I've never really had credit card debt. So my future never included credit card debt or really debt in general. My rich life probably involved more travel and more going and doing, whereas I think is a difference in upbringing has included televisions and nice cars. I will drive the same car into the ground. It does not bother me for people to look at me.

I would rather take a trip to Europe and pay for it and enjoy it while I'm there because I'm not worried about if I spend an extra dollar. What do you think about that, Brad? I agree. I think that's what I want too. You agree, but when I'm looking at the page, I see an expensive truck, an RV, debt. I see exactly what Becca just described. This is a really important moment. You'll notice that in most of my podcast episodes,

including this, I rarely tell people what to do. In this episode until now, I've just been listening a lot. That's because if I told them exactly what to do, they would nod, they would say okay, and then about five days from now, they would start to completely ignore my advice. They have to come to the answer themselves, not me, them. In order for that to happen, my job is to listen, to help them get out of their heads, to focus on the key issues, and then to help them come up with a solution. Truthfully, I can't do it for them. truthfully, I can't do it for them. I know the right mathematical answer, but the whole point of what I've been trying to share with you is that a rich life is more than math. In fact, if they decide to make zero changes, I'm fine with it. It's Brad and Becca's

life, not mine. I can offer guidance. Occasionally, I can even suggest specific things, but ultimately, they have to want to make a change. This is self-development, and this is why it can be so hard, but also so rewarding. today's episode is sponsored by element a very tasty electrolyte drink mix and i want to read you a response that i got from one of our readers who started using element recently his name d he wrote you convinced me to try element and i'm pleasantly surprised by how much i enjoy it the magnesium is really helpful for managing headaches and getting quality sleep, but it tastes so much better than I was expecting given the salt factor. This will be my new go-to for workout recovery and the blistering Florida summer heat. Well, first off, I love hearing about your experiences with our sponsors on the podcast.

I want to pick the very best sponsors for you, so keep your feedback coming and thank you. want to pick the very best sponsors for you, so keep your feedback coming and thank you. Element can help prevent and eliminate headaches, muscle cramps, fatigue, sleeplessness, and other common symptoms of electrolyte deficiency. If you're sweating or feel dehydrated and you want to replace your electrolytes, consider Element. They have eight great flavors like citrus salt, watermelon salt, raspberry salt, and even lemon habanero. Right now, Element is offering eight single serving packets free with any Element order. This is a great way to try all eight flavors. Get yours at drinkelement.com

slash Ramit. Try it totally risk-free. And if you don't like it, they'll give you your money back, no questions asked. You have nothing to lose. This deal is only available through my link. Let me give it to you again. DrinkLMNT.com slash R-A-M-I-T. That's DrinkLMNT.com slash Ramit. dot com slash Ramit. I get tons of email every single day and I want to give you a behind the scenes look at how I manage emails from my team, from my family and from you. I use a piece of software called Superhuman

and this is an email software that I actually pay for out of my own pocket. It works with your existing email service like Gmail or Outlook. And let me share how it saves me over 10 hours a week. So here are a few things I love about it. First off, it splits my inbox into different streams. So my important emails come into one place.

It's not cluttered with a bunch of subscriptions everywhere. Next, I use keyboard shortcuts, unlike you barbarians who literally click and peck through every single email. U to mark it unread, S to star it, J or K to cycle through messages. I use keystrokes to schedule messages, like when I want to ask one of my coworkers a question, but I don't want to send them an email on a Saturday. Now, I can work through dozens of emails in minutes using this. And Superhuman just introduced an AI feature, which allows you to take a huge email with all these people chiming in and automatically summarize what's going on in a few bullet points. It'll even draft emails for you. So if you want to buy back your time, Superhuman is a no-brainer to me.

It's something I spend my own money on and I love it. Right now, all IWT listeners will get a free month of Superhuman. You can get started at superhuman.com slash Ramit. That's superhuman.com slash Ramit, R-A-M-I-T. Your spending tells your story and your spending tells me a very clear story, which is you are on a certain path. Option one, stay on the path. You can do it. It's your money. Option two, you can make minimal changes. You can try to chop off a little bit here and save $50 there. It'll probably do okay. You'll save

a little bit. My guess is it won't do much and you will continue being stressed out about it. Or option three is you can make some radical changes and it will be difficult because it will shock you out of your current patterns. And your first reaction will be, I can't do that. But you actually can. And if you make those changes, you may give yourself the opportunity to have a clean slate and to say, what kind of life do we want to create going forward? We don't just want to get to zero. No, we have a bigger dream than zero. We want Europe.

We want to get a glass of champagne. We want to be able to do these things without having to worry about it. And we also want to be prudent. We want to invest. We want to be able to do these things without having to worry about it. And we also want to be prudent. We want to invest. We want to save. We want to put ourselves in a position where if something bad happens, we're okay. So those are your three options. What do you want to do?

Option three. Okay, great. I think we've tried option two in ways. Yeah. But cutting out the lattes doesn't do it. No. Yeah. But cutting out the lattes doesn't do it. But I did try to save, I tried to save money by buying an espresso machine because, hey, after a hundred espressos or lattes, we're saving money.

Yeah. How'd that work? Lattes are good. Lattes are good. I can have them whenever I want, but it didn't fix the problem. No, it didn't. Your checking account is still exactly the same, isn't it? It is. That's right. Brad, you're going to have to be proactive in this. When it comes to money, I don't know if you've been more passive in certain areas, but in every relationship, oftentimes one person will take the lead on taking out the garbage or doing the dishes or whatever. And the other person either doesn't do it or they just minimally help. I think, Brad, what you're hearing is you're going to need to

really take a proactive role in this. And you better think about what that looks like tangibly. I think you have the answer inside of you. I'm looking at your numbers. What do you think you need to do? One thing that comes to mind is look for a higher paying job. Okay. How much could you get paid knowing the market right now? Probably 50% more. 50%? So you can go from 105 to 150? Probably if I move to the private sector. That seems pretty good to me. It does. So, all right. I'm putting a pin in that. That's a great solution. That would solve a lot of

these financial challenges. How can you do that in a way that is regular and that Becca would see that and feel good about your actions? Show her that I'm looking for new jobs, that I'm applying for jobs, that I'm interviewing for jobs, talking to her about it. Great. Love it. Perfect. What else? Look at areas that we could trim some of the fat. Well, let's look at it right now. It's in front of us. Go ahead. Selling the truck and selling the camper. Okay. There's a good guideline for this called the 2836 rule. I bet you never heard of this. This is a

much more sophisticated rule. You can Google Ramit 2836 rule. And what this says is you should spend less than 28% of your gross income on your housing and less than 36% on all of your debt combined. That means you can afford basically $36,000 per year on total debt, mortgage, car, everything. I don't even want to see it that high. I want to see it lower because I want you to have some breathing. Back of the napkin, I'm going to guess if I were in your position, I would be thinking about like 25,000 bucks. Which I've never bought a new car. Would I like to one day? Maybe, but I know that it's not, not for us right now. Yeah. Save for it. You can do it later. No big deal.

So used for sure. And it may be even a place where we get a truck that can still pull the camper so that that's not something we have to give up too. Because what, because if you had to give up the camper, what would that mean? For me, it's, it's what the kids enjoy. It's, you know, they, they love that camper. Uh, they love the trips that we take on it. We do have good times on it. And I think that if I didn't have the stress around the payments,

that I would enjoy it more too. If we could have paid cash for it, and I didn't have to think about all the payments and the extra costs that you don't think about when you're buying it, I'd enjoy it more. Can I tell you a secret? Yes. If you had all this stuff paid off right now, today, you would still be stressed out taking

your next vacation. Does that sound familiar, Brad? Yeah. That's been what I've been preaching to him. We can pay off their credit cards. We can pay off your truck. And we're still going to come back around to this because it's just how you're wired with money right now. Hold on. I agree with everything except for that last part. When you tell somebody that's how you're wired, what you're

telling him is you're going to be like that forever. So you might as well give up. There's no way to change. And how do you think somebody receives that message? Not the way intended. Yeah, exactly. If you said that to me, I'd be like, well, then screw it. Give me two campers because I might as well have some fun. If I'm always going to feel stressed, at least I'll have two campers. That's not how it's intended. It's more intended of if we put in the work, we can get past the anxiety,

but it's not going to come down to credit card debt and debt in general. There's more to it than that. I think she's right. We talked about how, even if we had a clean slate today, it's not likely that it's going to change the way I feel about it, feel about money. And that's, that's, it is a fear of mine, but it's also a fear of Becca's because it's working so hard to get to zero, which is already depressing enough on its own, but then not feeling any weight lifted off your shoulders. You mentioned you used to play soccer. So you know what it's like to be an athlete.

when you think back to playing was soccer only about winning the game no what was it about it was about playing the game doing something that you loved yeah yeah and who did you play it with when you played soccer my teammates my friends you still remember those guys? Oh, yes. Yeah. That's the joy of it, right? Looking back and thinking about all your friends and that one time you had to play in the rain and everyone was getting muddy. Yeah, of course, it's nice to win, but sometimes you just as well remember the times you lost, but you lost with your friends. Do you see that there's a similarity here? This idea of getting to zero, that's actually not the point. You can get to

zero right now if you want. Cash out some of your retirement and pay it off. I wouldn't do that, but you could if you wanted. But you're not going to feel any differently at zero. You're not even going to feel any differently when you have $100K because you have more than $100,000 in your investment accounts. It's thinking about what do I want my experience along this journey to be? Do I want to be stressed? Do I want to always be thinking about what can go wrong? Staying on this small trajectory and being comfortable with having credit card debt? Or do I want to say, you know what? Actually,

money can be fun. And yeah, Becca, I do want to do champagne without having to worry about it. But you know what, Becca? Here's something I want to do for us that we never even talked about. This is what gets me going. Do you see the connection to when you used to play soccer? I do. She tells me all the time, stop and smell the roses. It's about the journey and not the destination. That's why I don't mind if you decide I want to mow the lawn. Great. If you want to do it, great. One day when you can afford to pay somebody, if you decide not to do it, also great. It's totally up to you.

You want to build a shed? Great. You want to buy it? Also great. It doesn't matter to me. The point is that the two of you decide together and you decide with a vision in mind. So let me give you an example of my rich life. First of all, I'm not building a shed. Okay. In fact, in my rich life, I don't even have a hammer

because I don't want to build anything. Okay. That's my rich life, but I like to iron clothes. So I'll iron my own clothes because I like it and I'm good at it and it's relaxing. Right. Again, I could pay for somebody to do it, but fine. The point is not, should you hire somebody or can you afford this or that? Yes, we do need to obey the numbers. We need to have a sense and competence around numbers. But more importantly, what do I enjoy? Now let's go back to your debt.

What I notice is you are still playing in a small way. What I notice is you're looking for a way to get out of making tough decisions. Do you notice that, Brad? Okay. So the things that I notice that are great, you're like, I'm paying off the debt for credit cards. I have a plan. I'm paying off the debt for my student's loan. I have a plan. That's great. You did mention you could go down from a truck to another truck. But if we're realistic about it, how much would you pay for another truck that could pull your RV? How much would that truck cost? It'd be tough to get something that's $25,000. How much would it cost? It'd be tough to get something that's 25,000. How much would it cost? Probably between 30 and 40. So let's say 40. So basically you're making zero change with your finances

because you take a 50 K truck, you sell it for 40 and now you got to buy a 40. In fact, if anything, you're going to spend $2,000 more on all the licensing and whatever. Doesn't really get you anywhere, does it? No. A truck that I like less. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. What a great insight. A truck that you like less. So now every day you wake up, you go in this truck that you don't even like, and four or five times a year, you're pulling your RV and you go, nothing changed in my bank account. This sucks. Ramit sucks. This life sucks. I hate this. I'm going back to the way it was because at least back then I had a good truck. I don't want that for you. I want you to get to zero. I want you to get better than zero. And more importantly, I want you to feel really good along the way. But feeling good doesn't always mean buying the things you want right now.

You've nailed all the big options you have. Okay. I would sell the truck because I would also sell the RV. So if you don't have an RV, you don't need a truck. What kind of car would I get then? Doesn't really matter to me. Whatever's $25,000 and works for your family. If you do that, you mentioned something really smart. The gas price goes down. You have 400 bucks a month in gas. You start to see that when you buy things, they have their own hidden costs that come along with it. And that's what traps you. Yeah. You know, I did want to say one thing about the RV and the camping trips, because both of you expressed how you really love taking the kids and going camping. And I anticipate that after this call and in the

coming weeks, as you discuss this and make a plan, it's totally predictable and inevitable that you will both face resistance. Okay. Your minds and your dynamic in your relationship will want to bring you back to, you know what? We don't need to do that. Let's just make a couple of minor things. And we got the tax return coming and it'll be fine. Okay. Again, it's up to you. Option one, two, three, it's totally up to you. I will say this. I want you to really think creatively. If I were in your position and I absolutely love taking my kids camping, I would just rent an RV for one of the kids trips. And I would involve like, which ones do you want to choose? Whatever. I would make it a whole fun thing so that they felt part of it, especially the older

one. Um, they don't have to know that, Oh, mom and dad are selling this thing because financially it doesn't make sense. You know, older one says, wow, I get to choose which one to get, or I get to ride in a new one. That's so cool. This can be an opportunity for you to let go of the past way of looking at it. We have to have our own camper and truck in order to go camping, which costs like over $70,000 all in versus let's rent this thing for 1500 bucks and we'll have a nice weekend and give it back and we don't have to do any maintenance on this. Done. So just remember, as you go forward in the next days and weeks, you're going to want, from deep down, you're not even going to know where it's coming from. You're going to want to not make big decisions. We want a rich life. We want

to be able to go to Europe. Right. And, and in order to do that tomorrow, here are the things we need to do today. All right. All right. Yeah, you're right. I mean, we will not even just from our children, but I know that we'll see resistance from the guys with the trucks. Totally. What are they going to say to you? They'll pull out the heartstrings. You know, you're not going to do that for your kids or, you know, our kids are there. You're taking away time from the cousins.

So how are you going to respond to that? I'll probably cry. No, I'll probably say, sorry, that's what we have to do. And then I'll go in the back room and cry. It's tough because you want to give. I mean, that's what it is. If it was just Becca and I, I don't think we'd have any issues going and selling it tomorrow. But you don't want to disappoint kids in that way, especially if it's something that they love. You're exactly right. I think we both like owning our own things.

But why not rent one for two months payment on just the truck alone? Remember, your kids have no concept of ownership. They don't care. All they care about is being able to go do something cool with mom and dad. And it literally could be playing on a rock in a park. And of course it could be going with their cousins once a year. What I would like to see you do is do these big moves first, stabilize. And then the two of you have a really pleasant conversation. You go, oh my God. First of all, all of our debt is now paid off. Our student loans are gone. Our credit cards are gone. We have $10,000 to $25,000 in our savings account because

of our tax return, because of additional cashflow every month from not having to pay off credit cards and all this gas. What are you going to do at that point? How would you feel if you had that conversation three months from now? It would be incredible to actually start thinking about a rich life outside of getting to zero. Yeah. So uninspiring. It is. Sometimes the uninspiring stuff, you have to do it. But sometimes if you can, you get through it as fast as possible. Because on the other side of that is a truly joyful journey that you two can take together. So paint the picture for me. Here you are. Who is the one who brings up this topic to the other person three months from now? Probably me. Why is that?

Because it's me showing Becca that I hear what she's saying and that I'm making an effort to change that, to change the way I think about money, feel around money so that it's not negatively impacting her and how she lives her life. Beautiful. In fact, Brad, why don't you ask Becca how she would react to that conversation? See what she says. Becca, how would you feel if I came to you in three months to show you the changes that I've made and that we've made together to improve our relationship moving forward? I probably wouldn't know how to respond. I'd probably just giggle, laugh, and then say, this is great. Okay. Talk about it. What is your rich life? Get specific, please.

Okay, talk about it. What is your rich life? Get specific, please so my rich life includes tons of travel but like This year, I guess my rich life would be even just little weekend getaways I love going to the mountains and things like that together as a couple and then also taking the kids like Hiking going somewhere and staying at like an airbnb or like that, that we can experience things. So you want to go as a couple, how many couples trips do you want to take this year? I would love to go on three or four. It doesn't have to be far. Is that realistic? You can do it, childcare, all that stuff. You've done this before. Yeah.

Great. Now the kids trips, you want to take the kids too for some separate trips. How many times a year? I think it would depend on what the trips were and how I like to take them somewhere at least once a month. But like you said, it could be a day trip. It could be 20 minutes away. It could be an overnight trip. It could be a three-day trip, but just something. I like to go and do something that gives them an experience they wouldn't normally have. Yeah. I guess I'm not counting things like taking them to a park for the day because that's just a normal day-to-day thing. I'm talking about something that would cost money.

A couple times a year would be good. What else, Brad, is on your rich life for this year? We've talked about going to Jamaica. Once we hit a year, once our youngest is a year, I want to fly to Jamaica. I'd like to look at business class. I want to pay for shuttle service. And I want to eat good food, spend time with friends, and not worry about how much anything is costing because we saved up for it and it's all paid for already.

Okay. So how does your vision of Jamaica fit into Becca's vision with her trips? I think that it could count as one of the four trips that we do together. What do you think about that, Becca? Yeah. Yeah. Sounds pretty good. Okay. That was a very positive experience listening to the two of you smile and share where you want to go and talk about, oh, let's take the kids here. But you know what? I want some time with you. I love that. Did you both feel the positivity in that conversation? Yes. Yeah. It's very different to talk about

what you want to do with your money positively, affirmatively versus what you don't want to do. Isn't there a big difference? Absolutely. So all the things you said sound amazing. I actually have a lot of confidence that you will be able to do those, I actually have a lot of confidence that you will be able to do those, that rich life vision in maybe two to four years. But in order for you to do that, your income would need to be substantially higher and your savings would need to be substantially higher. So that's okay. That's totally fine.

I want to point out a pattern that I've seen, which is that if you try to do a whole bunch of stuff, it starts to trap you and the tail wags the dog. So imagine if you were to go on these four trips and two trips, you'd be right back in debt. So what's a better approach in my opinion is do fewer things, but really make them special. Maybe it's not four trips. Maybe it's one really special trip. I think it's easy. I know what it would be for me. It would be, like you said, to save up for one large trip, we just have to decide if that is Jamaica per Brad's vision, or if it's closer to home, but maybe just as long. It's doing the one trip, but it's also doing things that cost less money. We can still take the children and

do things, but it can be things that cost less money. It could be a day at the park. Good. I like that. And you know what? When you have these one or two really nice things per year, I have to tell you, when the two of you are on the same page and you start talking about it, you're pulling up pictures of the camping trip, or maybe it's Jamaica, you're talking about it, half the fun, at least half the fun is in talking about it, getting excited. Oh my gosh, the hotel has three pools. And then when you get there, it's even better. So my point is, we don't have to always just inundate ourself with stuff. You could go to Jamaica today. You could. We should be honest about it. We shouldn't lie

and say, there's no way you can't afford. You can go if you want, put on your credit card. Nobody's going to stop you. Deep down, if you're putting it on credit card debt, you cannot afford it. And you know what? It's actually okay to admit that you can't afford the lifestyle you want right now. To me, I actually find it great. There are things that I want, that I have a plan for, I'm saving for years, in some cases, decades to get. And I love it. It's my soccer game for me. It's the joy of, I set an intention. I made a plan. I set up an automated savings or investment plan. And every month I see that number going up. That's my joy. You know what? I actually don't even think you care about some of the things you think you do? Ownership. Do we need to own this RV,

which means we need to own the truck, which means we need 400 bucks a month on gas? Maybe. Or maybe we can go to Jamaica instead and actually save 15% of our gross income every year. That sounds pretty good to me too. Your cousins and relatives are going to say things. I like both of your responses. I would like it even more if the two of you are unified. If the two of you look at each other and what would you say that shows you are a team? What would you say? We've decided this is what's right for our family. Ah, so good. We, we've decided, yes. How can you argue against that?

Can't. We'd love to see you. We're gonna see you in October, but this is what we've decided for our family. You can do all these things, but it becomes exponentially better when you and Becca are aligned, where she feels like, I got a teammate who I can trust.

I will admit, it's tough to hear. You can do what you want, but not all of it. It's tough to, it's really difficult to accept the fact that as much as we do enjoy things like the RV, the fact that as much as we do enjoy things like the RV, that we can't afford it. That's hard to say. I've never felt like I couldn't afford what I wanted, which I guess that's not true because I'm always complaining that I can't afford things. But if I really wanted something, we found out a way to make it work, even if that meant going into debt. And that's not the right answer. In order to ever have that chance to be able to afford it, these are the things that have to be done now. And by making some changes, we can get there. Two to four years sounds like a long time, but it's really not. Yeah. I couldn't have said it better myself. When you two are rowing in the same direction,

you start going faster than you ever thought you could. Wow. This was a fascinating episode because it describes tens of millions of people in America who are stuck. They're stuck with their finances, stuck in their socioeconomic status with nowhere to go except perhaps down. What's interesting though is if you think about these people, a lot of them still have a nice car, excuse me, a nice truck. A lot of them still take a nice vacation every so often, but they still feel trapped. Of course, income plays a part. Structural expenses like housing and healthcare play an increasingly large role. But there's also the stark reality that a lot of people just spend more than they can afford. And little by little, they surround themselves with so much stuff that they can hardly breathe. This is how they get

stuck with the possibility of never increasing their socioeconomic status. Think of all the clues we saw today. Brad takes a passive approach to his money. His parents did the same. He and his wife are surrounded with people who buy expensive trucks and are in debt, so they think it's normal. Brad and Becca don't talk about money proactively, only when there's a fight. and Becca don't talk about money proactively, only when there's a fight. They focus on monthly payments, not the total cost of ownership. And they use all kinds of financial gimmicks like 0% transfers instead of tackling the root cause. Finally, and most importantly, they have no vision, no rich life vision whatsoever. It's just buying stuff and then worrying about it later. Guys, this is no way to live. A rich life is about more than getting to zero. And it's about more

than buying some cool stuff for your house. It's about having something inspiring that tells you why you're working so hard. Where are you going? What do you both want to do together? What's this all for? And part of that rich life is being honest. Honest with yourself and honest with others. In this case, if you can't afford it, you don't buy it. I hope this has been eye-opening for you.

I know it was for me. Thanks for listening to I Will Teach You To Be Rich. I received a follow-up letter from Brad and Becca after I spoke with them. You can read the full letter at iwt.com slash follow-ups. But here's an excerpt of what Brad wrote. We started working on a plan to sell the camper and the $50,000 truck. I started to look at vehicles that were in the price range of what we can afford, which is 25K, and I didn't like what I saw.

The more I thought about selling the camper and truck and making changes to our plan to build our rich life, I constantly found myself thinking about what other people would say, or I worried that I may look like a failure. caps, being so worried about what other people thought, instead of focusing on the only options that do matter, being so worried about what other people thought, instead of focusing on the only opinions that actually do matter, which is mine and Becca's, has been hurting my marriage and preventing us from living our rich life. I said that I would do anything to change our path. You said it would be difficult and you're right, but I'm committed to making these changes to enable us to live our rich life.

All right, I'm impressed with the work that Brad is doing to change his mindset. To read the full letter, go to iwt.com slash followups and enter your email address. Thanks for listening to I Will Teach You To Be Rich. I'm Ramit Sethi. Please follow the show on Apple, Spotify,

or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you haven't read I Will Teach You To Be Rich, my book, pick up a copy. You can get it at any bookstore or any library, and it will show you the specific tactics for how to build the I Will Teach You To Be Rich system into your personal finances.