I Will Teach You To Be Rich - 64. “My boyfriend is perfect… except he’s broke” (Part 1)

Episode Date: October 11, 2022

Connie and Wes have been dating for a year—but they have some very serious issues with how they see money, both individually and as a couple. The story to keep in mind: Connie’s mom earned considerably more money than her dad, but he always paid for family meals. Fairytales like this complicate how we deal with money later in life. As such, the power of archaic and illogical gender roles is the big theme that we try to untangle in this one. We need to call out the cultural expectations held between Connie and Wes to make room for a healthier dynamic. Don’t miss the dramatic cliffhanger ending that will leave your jaw on the floor as you wait for the fallout of part two, dropping next week. Connect with Ramit Website Instagram Twitter Facebook YouTube Linkedin If you and your partner have a money issue and you want my help, I occasionally select a couple to work with, free of charge. Apply for my help here. Produced by Crate Media.

The story that I grew up with is in a regular romantic relationship. The man is chivalrous and when the bill comes that Bill is always going to go to the man and he's going to pick it up and pay it. So when we're out at dinner and the check comes and I want to pick it up in her mind, it isn't a good financial decision for me. So it's kind of a, it's kind of a catch-22 because I'm expected to pick up the check, but at the same time when I do, it's kind of, you should be doing that because I don't think you can afford it. I often feel like, well, what am I even bringing to the table here? Connie said that our biggest relationship issue was,

the biggest thing holding our relationship back was money. And so with where I am there, it's like, why am I even, sometimes I even ask, why, why, why even, why even day somebody was such a huge discrepancy with money? When we talk about money, I have come across as extremely demeaning. And I think part of that has probably made West feel

And I think part of that has probably made Wes feel a little unworthy of being in this relationship because our balance sheets look different. Connie believes that when she goes out on a date, the man should pick up the check. But in her one-year relationship with Wes, she out earns him. And when he tries to pay for the check, she tells him he shouldn't because he should save his money. Today, we're going to talk about gender roles and how they influence the way we see money. You're going to learn about how differently Connie and Wes were raised with money and how that affects the way they treat it today.

Now, I've noticed that a lot of us like to believe we are logical and we make decisions because of very sound reasons. But I love this podcast because we get to have an honest discussion of how we are not logical and how psychology causes us to behave in peculiar ways. If you want to download a copy of the conscious spending plan template at Connie and West used on this episode, you can go to iwt.com slash episode 64. This is the I will teach you to be rich podcast and I am Ramit Saiti. Connie, when you think about money in a relationship, Connie, when you think about money in a relationship, what is the story that you grew up with?

The story that I grew up with is in a regular romantic relationship. The man is chivalrous, and when the bill comes, that bill is always going to go to the man, and he's going to pick it up and pay it. That means he loves me, or in my dad's situation with my mom that he's the provider and that he's going to take care of the family. Financial provider, but also just protector of the family. Like it has a bigger implication than just the financial means. What was the role of your mom in that partnership? Ironically, she made more money than my dad, but her role was to love him and to be grateful for him for doing that and for picking it up and for taking care of the family. So your mom made more than your dad and when you went out to eat in your family, who got the check?

My dad always did. He always reached for it. And if it wasn't given to him, he always reached for it because that's what that's what the man does in the relationship. And do you think that's universal? In the story that I tell myself about what I'm looking for and my rich life romantic relationship, it's always there. But no, I do realize that sometimes bills are split and some women like to pick up the

check and they don't want the guy to pick up the check for them. But. With your mom earning more and your dad reaching for the check, what credit card did he use to pay it off? Like was he paying with his money or their money? He was probably paying with their money. Okay. Does that muddy the story for you at all or not? Somehow it doesn't.

You got to a point where they were both very comfortable with sharing the money. And they both fully trusted each other. And I grew up in a very fiscally conservative family. They were both very frugal. And I think they both implicitly trusted each other with their money. You think they talked about money a lot? We did. We talked about money all of the time. Every single dinner that we sat down with from the time I was five, six, seven, by time I was eight, I could

tell you about the benefits of compound interest. We talked about money every opportunity that my parents had. And I love talking about money, I love talking about finances. Were you upper middle class, wealthy, what would you say? From the amount of money that my parents were bringing in, we were probably upper class, but that being said, we also did all of our shopping at Salvation Army, because that's where we shopped.

So based on our income, we were probably upper class, based on the amount of money that we spent, we were probably lower middle class. What was the amount of money, what are we talking about? Because, you know, the reason I ask is that, I have people who have $10 million on this podcast and they call themselves upper middle class. They go, huh?

So my mom's a physician and my dad is in real estate. So very, very solid six figures. But very frugal with money. And what's their financial situation now? They'll never have to worry about money. I find her response fascinating. Notice that Connie's parents talked to her about money since she was five years old.

That's a clear contrast to many people whose parents never talked to them about money. Put yourself in Connie's shoes. If you had been thinking about money since you were five. How would you feel about it? How would you feel if you met a partner who was not investing in their Roth IRA? In fact, who didn't even know what a Roth IRA was.

I also want you to notice that Connie presents the man as the provider when it turns out that her mom actually made more than her dad. Now let's listen to Wes' experience growing up with money. Well, so in my past and with past relationships, I have always been the man that has provided. I always had the most income in a household in a relationship and I did pick up the check and I did the grocery shopping and I paid towards the rent and I took on

that weight. I think one thing that Connie has a bit of a problem with is she doesn't believe that I am as in good of a spot financially as she would like or ideally would be at. So when we're out of dinner and the check comes and I want to pick it up and her mind, it isn't a good financial decision for me because it's better for me to save my money, put it in the bank, invest it, do something else with it other than pick up the check. So it's kind of a catch 22 because I'm expected to pick up the check, but at the same time

when I do, it's kind of, you should be doing that because I don't think you can afford it. It's definitely a new dynamic for me. I often feel like, well, what am I even bringing to the table here? Connie said that our biggest relationship issue was, the biggest thing holding our relationship back was money. And so with where I am there, it's like, why am I even, sometimes I even ask, well, why even, why even day somebody

was such a huge discrepancy among me. Can you try to answer that question for me? If you are not the financial provider, then what value do you bring? Well, right now, I suppose I bring a lot to the table as far as emotions and Show her things that I don't think that she's accustomed to as far as you know just Just general intimacy and and what a man can bring Emotional and that it isn. It isn't financially.

I guess I'm filling some roles that I didn't even know or roles until I'm in this relationship. You can hear Wes struggling to define his role in the relationship if he's not a provider. And this is the age old question of the seaword contribution. In relationships where one person earns much more than the other, the lower earning partner is often obsessed with contribution. And in our culture, if it can't be quantified, it doesn't have value.

This person brings in $5,000 a month. That's value. But that person organizes the household or maintains the backyard or plans events for the family or is even recovering from an illness. And suddenly, we ask, or they ask themselves, where's the value? Interestingly, the higher earner can reassure the other person

that their work is valuable. But the lower earner is often convinced that their work isn't seen as valuable, even if their partner tells them it is. This is much, much more complicated than anything you will find on a spreadsheet. And it is really frustrating for both parties. I was so blessed growing up with so many people teaching me how to be good with money. And I want to help impart that onto Wes and I don't think I do it in a, in the most positive manner.

How I make him feel is that, I hate even saying this, like I think I make him feel like he's, he's dumb. And he's not like he's, he's dumb and he's not like he's, he's brilliant. How do you make him feel dumb? I think I make him feel like, hey, you're in your 30s. Like who in their 30s doesn't have a rough setup or who in their 30s doesn't have a 401k setup. Like everyone knows that.

Those are simple basics. Uh, maybe you should talk to some of the people I've talked to you. They don't know what a rough is. I get that Connie isn't waiting a lot of fans right now, but let's go a little deeper. If you've been talking about money since you were five years old and everyone around you has been talking about it too, you can imagine why you might assume that everyone knows this. This is also why you see people of the same socioeconomic status, often marrying similar

people. In social science, it's called assortative mating, and it's become even more pronounced since the 1970s. This means that like, marries like, or in other words, highly educated people tend to marry other highly educated people. Now, whether or not you agree with it, you can see how growing up with different values makes you approach the world through different lenses. I'm wondering if Connie recognizes this.

That's interesting, though, Connie, isn't it? Because you grew up talking about money from the age of five. And so to you, money and IRAs and things like that are as common as knowing to tie your shoes or brush your teeth. Yes. And do you realize that that's not common for most people? I do. I realize I've been so blessed and fortunate with my parents, grandparents, everyone teaching me. But it still doesn't change the way you feel does it? No, because those feelings are pretty and grain deep in my psyche. Every responsible member of society should be saving and putting towards retirement and understand finances. And I know

that that's not realistic. Do you know there's a difference between knowing and feeling? Oh, this is something West brings the table a lot better than I do. West has a huge smile on his face right now. Like huge, he's like, I can't wait to get in on this part. Just hold on a second West. So Connie, you know, I can know something,

but that doesn't mean I feel it. I can know something, but that doesn't mean I feel it. I can know something, but that doesn't mean I do it. Do you have anything like that in your life? I have been very, very caught up in my business for the last nine months. We had some personnel issues and it's just, it has been all encompassing of my time. And because of that, I have dropped off the wagon in regards to working out daily. And I know that moving my body, it helps me feel better, look better, long-term health. It helps me emotionally be better.

It helps every aspect of my life. And I'm so aware of that. And yet, I'm not prioritizing it. So you tell yourself all these things. They're very rational, very intelligent reasons, but you still don't go and get physically active, which you know is also important. It's probably more important. I have one body.

Yeah. So now that you kind of feel that, that dissonance between what you quote should do or what you want to do and what you're not How do you think that might apply to Wes in his relationship with money? He does the exact same thing but there's things that He probably knows it would be more beneficial to save But there's excuses and reasons as to why he's going to make decisions that go towards his rich life as opposed to savings. And he can get good excuses for them too.

Yeah. Maybe there are excuses, maybe there are reasons. I don't know. Excuses feels very negative to me, you know? So I don't like to give them that kind of value because reasons. Now, I have a question for his little provocative Connie. What if Wes got frustrated with you for not being physically active? And every Saturday he came into your office

and he started knocking on the door saying, why don't you get outside, go for a hike, you need to do this, it's not serving you, you're disappointing me. How would you feel about that? Harble, resentful. I would probably my personality, I would intentionally go away from it specifically because he was pushing it on me. Wow.

And what does that make you realize if anything? I really hope I'm not doing the same thing to him. Connie, that's exactly what you're doing. I doubt it's intentional, but that's the effect you're having on Wes. I'm curious how he thinks about his money. Wes? Where are you with your finances today? How would you describe yourself?

I would describe myself as doing better now than I ever have in my life. And of course, I just started my own business about a year and a half ago. And I have an income that I did not think was ever, not ever, but I did not think was in as near future as it is actually right now. Okay. So how much do you pay yourself every month? In the past three months, I've paid myself a little over $2,000. But it's better than what I've done in the past, which was just have a job that I was working

eight, 10, maybe 12 hours a day. And you know, I'm a welder. Okay. And how much were you getting paid as a welder? I was getting paid on just a regular 40-hour week, 1300 a week net. How much annual income were you making back then? 60 plus. Okay. 60 70 somewhere in that range. Okay. So I'm curious because you were making more as an individual when you were working as a welder than you are now taking home roughly $2,000 a month. Yes. But you told me I'm making more than I ever thought. I feel great about money. Can you explain that to me?

Sure. Well, like I said, okay, this year, just it's September, this year, I've probably bought $60,000 worth of equipment for my business. No, it's not net, but that's assets. I've put towards my business, it's gonna make it better and stronger and more capable and it's actually things that I absolutely must have

to continue doing what I'm doing. Okay. And day to day, where do you spend your money? So, I really don't, my blood is expensive, probably food. I feed myself, other than that. I don't buy clothes very often. I know that, so I live at home with a, I live at home with a dear old mom. And so I don't, I'm not paying rent, but I am helping her out.

So it's not like I'm staying here, free loading. And insurance, everything like that comes out of my business account, the gas for my vehicles comes out of my business account, everything else, so day to day, I don't spend a whole lot of money on myself, that's why I'm able to pay myself so little, got it. And what's the future of this?

Like right now you're paying yourself basically 2000 a month, but you have very low expenses. Where do you see this going in six months, a year, etc.? Unfortunately, I found myself in a position where I somehow landed a seven figure contract and I really plan on making. I stand right now to make roughly, I'm going to say about $300,000 net over the next six to eight months. And so I imagine that with that, I'll be paying myself a little bit more than $2,000 a

month. How much? I would love to pay myself closer to, you know, perhaps even even $5,000 a month, not that I needed, but it would just be there to put into savings or investments or what have you. Things that I haven't been able to prioritize in the past. Talk to me about how you grew up with money. What do you remember your family talking about with money?

What was the financial situation of your family when you were young? So we really didn't have, it's quite the, quite stark contrast to Kanye over there. We didn't talk much about money at the dinner table. It was more politics and things of that nature. So really, I didn't know what a Roth IRA was. I didn't know how 401k's work. I didn't know any of that. Just a quick pause to highlight how families with money talk about money regularly. You'll hear this over and over on this podcast. On the other hand, families without money or those who see money as a source of stress,

guilt and shame, they don't talk about money. Why would they? In their eyes, money is a bad thing and that leaves their children defenseless as they grow up never having discussed it. Talk to your kids about money! One of my favorite things to talk about is this concept of money dials, the areas where you love to spend money. The most common one is food, the next most common one is travel, and the third most common one. A top money dial is health and wellness. Now I get it. I spend a lot on certain areas of my life.

For me, I love hotels that falls under luxury. I love convenience that falls under having my food delivered, etc. And I also love the ability to spend on health and wellness, like a personal trainer or selecting where I stay by how close the gym is. Health and wellness is a top money dial for most of my audience. That's why I'm excited to partner with Ness, who I want to tell you about today. With the Ness card, you can earn 5 x points on health and wellness spending at grocery

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I buy protein powder. And when I travel, I make sure to prioritize where I'm staying by how close it is to a good gym. Right now, Ness is offering a 50,000 point bonus to members who spend $6,000 in the first 90 days plus a $200 statement credit for health and wellness spending. They have a special offer for our I will teach you to be rich listeners and extra 5,000 point bonus when you apply for the Nest card and get approved using the link benefit terms apply. There are a couple things that drive me insane. One, when I post a picture eating Mexican food in LA, and 7,500 people help me tell me that

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That's n-o-m-o-r-o-b-o.com slash remeath. R-A-M-I-T. My dad, he would take us out to dinner every every other Friday, something like that, take the family out to dinner. He would always pick up the bill, his, you know, that was just how it was. And he has, he had his own business and he was doing well, but we didn't really talk about, we didn't really talk about money at all and as a matter of fact he went into an incredible amount of debt and into 2008 when everything collapsed I mean it just imploded and so that kind of failed. So I don't really have any influence from, you know,

my years as a younger individual on how to handle money at all. So just what I've done, I've learned more what not to do, more than what to do. Well, this is so interesting, hearing both of your different backgrounds with how you grew up with money. Do you both find it interesting, Well, this is so interesting hearing both of your different backgrounds With how you grew up with money. Do you both find it interesting or do you find it just aggravating? I think it's interesting. I bring it up probably more she does You do Yeah, I tell her I'm like look

Well, you have such a different background on it. I just I don't know these things because she'll ask me She'll ask me they like I'm, I'm genuinely interested in pursuing it. You know, I'll ask her about ETFs, and I'll ask her about investments, and okay, why not mutual funds? Why not this? Because I just, because I feel like she is this font of knowledge.

That's a good question. Great, those are pretty intermediate level questions, honestly. And how does Connie respond when you ask those questions? How do those conversations go? Sometimes I feel a little sheepish to ask because sometimes there are the ones like, well that's, that's an obvious, I'm just, I'm just a Googler, just, I mean, take, take some time out of your day and just figure it out. You know, I know she mentioned that sometimes it comes off as demeaning. So, you know, does it to you?

A little bit, yeah. Because there's some of the ways that she words it makes me a little less apt to ask the questions. I know before I was like, wow, I'm dating this superstar that knows all he's saying to us, like, let me just get as much knowledge as I can in the situation. I was like, I don't even know that I really want to ask this. Let me maybe Google it first. Can you think of a time where you asked a question and the response you got was not the kind of response

you were looking for? Sure. Asking about, I remember I had recently opened a Roth, or we had talked about opening a Roth IRA, and she was like, hey, you should just go do this. So I did, and I was kind of asking questions about, okay, well, through who do you use your Roth, or what benefits is this, and why this,

over this, and whatever it was, and why this, over this, and whatever it was. And I remember the answer being so flippant. I don't remember the answer, but I just remember speaking so, you know, like, you know, I was like, oh, I shouldn't have even asked that question. I feel like that's something I should have known already.

Let me just, let me just instead of asking, just go research. So, you know, when Wes comes to you and asks a question about ETFs or something like that, what goes through your mind? Before you even answer, what do you feel when he comes to you with one of these questions? My first thought is that I'm proud that he's asking the questions because I know that it's a big change for him with where he was two years ago. And so I love that he's asking the questions because I know that it's a big change for him with where he was two years ago. And so I love that he's asking the questions and I like the other day we had a conversation about why ETFs and target date funds for better than mutual funds because of the expense ratio and. You know like he was googling some stuff and we were talking about it and it was a great conversation but I.

I do know there are some sometimes that I definitely come across as Man like how I don't know that How do you know it? Is that what you come across is how do you not know that and I know that there's no I don't I need to get rid of that. Well, I need to get rid of that. I mean do you know how to weld stuff? I got no freaking clue. You know how to weld like different, I don't even know what you weld metal or concrete. Okay, I don't even know. It's clearly so here, let's let the blind try to lead the blind. Do you know how to weld concrete to algae? No. So if I, let's just play this out, watch this, watch this watch this West. I'm gonna be

Connie Who has some questions about welding and then you be you just do what you would naturally do hey West I'm so curious about welding because I saw something on TV How would you weld concrete to steal? It's not possible. There's no way you can do such thing. No, are you sure? Because TV show, there was somebody doing something with the, they put the thing over their eyes and then the fire came out. No. Yeah, you just, you just flip the rod around and use the other end. Okay. So as you can see, Connie, I don't even know what questions to ask. Yeah, I have no context whatsoever

Am I talking about Welding is the word fire? I don't know the basic terminology He could you know, he kind of joked around with me. Okay, cool. We're all laughing What if he had responded in a different way? What if he had been like that's really like The dumb question. Yeah, like that doesn't make any sense. And then how would you feel getting that response?

It would make me not want to ask the questions anymore. Yeah. It would make me lose interest in the topic. And that's not what I want to do. Yeah, I don't think Wes wants to become a world class investing expert. Wes, what are you really getting at when you ask those questions? Hey, what do you think is the best thing for me to do in this situation so that it can have a positive impact on the future and you know just just general guidelines on your future, Wes, or

another future? Well, potentially both potentially my future because I want to know. And then, potentially, if we're, if, you know, we plan on moving together as partners through life, that would obviously be a benefit for both of our future. It's obviously. So really deep down, it's not just about the ETFs when he's asking those questions. I really admire that he's asking these pretty intriguing, pretty detailed questions about investments. I mean, I'm like, gosh, I wish more people asked that kind of stuff about expense ratios. I think what Wes is really asking is how do I connect with you, Connie, because I know that money's really important to you.

because I know that money's really important to you. Now, Connie, your perspective is like, well, that's one piece of a million different things you need to know about investments, but here's the thing, Connie, you've been learning about this since you were five years old. And Wes, correct me if I'm wrong, but you haven't had a lot of people around you talking about investments and asset allocation and things like that. Is that fair? Never.

Yeah. Never. You both are coming from completely different worlds. I feel like I hardly know anything. Like I feel like I just kind of know the basics. But you feel that way, but to Wes, what does Wes think you know? Everything. Yeah. And functionally you do.

For somebody who doesn't know about an ETF versus a mutual fund, you functionally know everything. Like to me, West knows everything about welding. Cause I know nothing. Yeah. It's important to know where we all stand, right? What's the context? West has some great questions. I love when people are engaged It's important to know where we all stand, right? What's the context?

Wes has some great questions. I love when people are engaged and they're asking genuine questions. I would rather help somebody with a modest income who is truly curious about money than someone who makes a ton of money and just doesn't really care. In fact, in time, it's very possible that the person with a modest income will live a richer life because of that curiosity. By the way, these are the kind of conversations I have in my Rich Life community, which is part of my money coaching program.

You can sign up at iwt.com slash money coaching. Now West is trying to learn, but Connie isn't making it easy. Part of it is her story that you should just know about money. And part of it is her perspective that a man should be the provider. But I still can't stop thinking about the fact that her mom used to make more than her dad. Wes, were you surprised by the fact that her dad used to pick up the check, but it was with their joint money and her mom actually made more?

Attention, surprise. Attention, yeah, wow, I didn't know that. What does that tell you? How do you interpret that? That's a good question. It tells me that there's, you know, it's not all on me. It's not on me. Keep going. And that I have a partner there that

will help you out. Because the long way partners, partners, even in Connie's relationship and Connie's parents relationship where Connie herself says, I think the man should pick up the tab. And then we probe a little bit and we realized, I think the man should pick up the tab. And then we probe a little bit and we realize, well, the man was picking up the tab with his wife's money. And they're doing money. That's kind of interesting, isn't it? Yeah, sure. There's something. The story gets more complex than this simple Disney story that many of us hear. Okay. This story is about to get a lot more complicated. Let's talk numbers. Before coming on the show, Wes and Connie filled out a conscious spending plan together.

Now we're going to look into how much they have. Connie, how much money do you have? I have enough. Let's talk numbers because before we get into all this stuff, I think I think we all need to know about your numbers. So let's just look at your current spending. You submitted some documents to me before. Can you walk me through your net worth? A little over six million right now. And how old are you Connie? 41. Okay, so you have six million dollars and we're sitting over here talking about adding olives to our salad. What is going on right now? I got to walk through these numbers just so everybody can hear all the details.

Your assets are. What are your assets, Connie? And I didn't I didn't really know how to list them in the conscious spending document because there wasn't enough space in the spreadsheet for your assets. Go ahead, list them off to me. I know you know them too. I don't even really count my car or my housing situation is currently very unique.

So those numbers are so low that I don't count them. What kind of car do you have? Ford fusion. That's 10 years old. Why does everyone drive a Ford fusion on this show? Because they're inexpensive and I bought it used for hardly anything. Okay. All right.

I do hate Ford, but I just want to point out for every listener. Please notice that all these multi-millionaires are usually driving older cars. I just want to point that out to everyone. Meanwhile, the people who are in total financial trouble are driving these $75,000 trucks where they have no idea how they can afford it. All right, Connie, what else? What else do you have in your financial situation? Obviously have a raw 401K,

and then a significant amount in ETFs. And your investments total are worth how much? About a little over six million. Okay, and then any savings? So when I say investments, I meant that as everything that's in investments and in cash. So much is in cash. About half of that, which I know is probably a little bit too much, but it makes me sleep better at night. You have 50% in cash, all right, Wes, if you ever want, if you ever turns that spotlight on you, you just go, why do you have a 50% cash allocation? I know.

And I've been allocating a lot into target date funds recently just because the stock market went down. And I know you can't time the market, but whatever. I'm not going to argue with someone who has $6 million at age 41. Fine. And how much do you make per month? Business has been going pretty well the last two or three years so netting about 200. Can you say that in a full sentence please?

I've been netting about 200,000 a month. You heard that right folks. $200,000 per month. Connie is making 100 times more than West every month, and she has $6 million in the bank. Can you imagine being in a relationship where your partner made 100 times more than you? And how can Connie expect the man to be the provider in the relationship if she makes 100 times more than he does. Next week, you'll hear part two of this conversation.

To hear if we can get Connie and Wes on the same page, and we're going to go deeper into their numbers. Now, Connie and Wes use the conscious spending plan, but you can get at iwt.com slash episode 64. And next week, tune in to hear the rest of the conversation. Here's a sneak peek. So you make 2.4 million a year income. Yes. Your investments total are worth how much? A little over 6 million. Okay, and Wes, have you ever been in a relationship where at the time you're making 2000 a month,

your partner was making 200,000 a month? Sorry. And so Connie, if you paid for dinner with the two of you, how would you feel about it? I feel like I'm not getting what I want out of the relationship. And then I also feel like it's irresponsible of me to let him take me out to dinner. You want him to do exactly what you do with money. Is that fair to say?

Yeah, that sounds horrible, but yes. But he's not you. Yep. Thanks for listening to I Will Teach You To Be Rich. I'm Ramit Saiti. Please follow the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you haven't read, I will teach you to be rich. My book, pick up a copy.

You can get it at any bookstore or any library, and it will show you the specific tactics for how to build the I will teach you to be rich system into your personal finances. into your personal finances.