Imaginary Worlds - How One Piece Became King of the Backstories

Episode Date: November 22, 2023

One Piece is one of the biggest franchises in the world. The manga and anime have broken records in sales and viewership. The live action adaptation on Netflix was a hit. And the series holds a special place among fans who feel like they’re part of the Straw Hat pirate crew. But it may be the tragic backstories of the characters which tie it all together. I talk with co-host of the One Piece podcast Shannon Strucci, YouTuber Jordan Silva, artist Steve Yurko and Crunchyroll writer Daniel Dockery about how One Piece’s creator Eiichiro Oda is able to combine zany humor with emotional gut punches, and why so many fans identify with aspects of the characters’ backstories, even when the storylines are completely fantastical. Go to www.TryMiracle.com/imaginary to save over 40%. And use the code “imaginary” at checkout to get 3 free towels and save an extra 20% Get 55% off at www.Babbel.com/imaginary Go to www.HelloFresh.com/imaginaryfree and use the code “imaginaryfree” for free breakfast for life Give One Annual Membership and Get One Free at www.MasterClass.com/imagine Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You're listening to Imaginary Worlds, a show about how we create them and why we suspend our disbelief. I'm Eric Malinsky. This week is Thanksgiving in the U.S., which always kicks off with the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade. The parade is on its way. There's so much to look forward to. We got some turkey.

One of the reasons why kids love to watch the parade is because of the gigantic balloons. There are balloons of Snoopy, SpongeBob, Paw Patrol, and there's a new balloon in the lineup this year, Monkey D. Luffy. A lot of parents may be asking, who is that? Luffy is the main character of One Piece. It's an anime and a manga. Luffy is a skinny young guy with big eyes, and he always wears a straw hat over his messy black hair. And One Piece has a lot of adult fans. Shannon Strucci co-hosts a podcast about One Piece.

For me personally, I'm in my 30s, and it is by far the most important piece of media I've ever consumed. And I also personally couldn't imagine my life without it. So what is One Piece about? Long story short, pirates. Luffy is a good-natured pirate. His crew are called the Straw Hats, even though he's the only one that wears a straw hat. And Luffy also has superpowers.

He's basically made of rubber because he ate something called a devil fruit. Anyone who eats a devil fruit gets their own unique set of powers. And Luffy is obsessed with finding a treasure called the One Piece. Actually, all the pirates would like to find the One Piece. And if Luffy finds it first, he could be king of the pirates. But he's still a big kid at heart. This is from the English language dub of the anime. Don't you find it dumb that someone trying to be king of the pirates doesn't have a single navigational skill? Not really. I just drift around. And Luffy doesn't care about getting rich either. It's almost like you don't want me

taking care of the gold. Yep. only you could lose that much gold. You guys don't trust me, your own captain? Nope. Aw, hey, that really hurts my feelings. While the pirates are looking for the One Piece, all the pirates in this world are being hunted by the navy of an authoritarian world government. Shannon says this is one of the reasons why Luffy wants to become king of the pirates. The world government collects power

through propaganda and genocide, and it lies to its people, and it divides people racially and divides people based on class to gain power. Luffy's ultimate goal to become king of the pirates is like, it's more of a metaphor of attaining freedom for himself and the people that he cares about. And One Piece is not a niche fandom.

The manga has sold over 500 million copies worldwide. That blows past the sales of any American comic book series ever. Adding in the merchandise and other types of media, One Piece is more than a billion-dollar franchise. It's a 20 billion-dollar franchise. And this summer, Netflix put out a big budget live-action version of One Piece. And it debuted on Netflix at number one in 46 countries. I'm Mookie D. Loopy. Never heard of you. Well, remember the name, because I'm going to be king of the pirates. countries. There's another reason why One Piece has so many fans. Its creator, Ishiro Oda. Oda has drawn and written on every issue of the manga for more than a quarter century. He broke the Guinness

Book of World Records for the most copies published by a single author of the same comic book series. And his drawing style is unique. He blends Japanese, European, and American comic book styles into something edgy and eye-popping. The character designs are gigantically huge or adorably tiny or impossibly skinny. The animated series and the live-action show have been pretty faithful to the manga, and I think that's why the fans aren't divided like a lot of other franchises. There is a single creative mind at the center of everything. The fandom likes to call him Goata because they call him the goat. Jordan Silva is a YouTuber

who produces a lot of content about One Piece. Which is why so many fans are like, oh my God, hopefully he ends this soon because he's not getting any younger. And a lot of manga artists, I don't want to say have the tendency, but a lot of them have a lot of health issues because they overwork themselves with crazy hours.

They're constantly sitting down, arched over, writing all the time. They don't really take care of themselves properly. Oda's work schedule is grueling. He sleeps three hours a day. He skips meals. And the few times that he's taken a break, it was international news. And then there's also some really sad... I've seen comments before on YouTube or Twitter where there's people that say they're on their deathbed.

And one of the things is they wish they would know how the story ends. It's kind of crazy when you think about it. Because there's probably people that started reading or watching it in their 20s or 30s. And now they're maybe in their 20s or 30s and now they're maybe in their 50s or almost 60s and you know obviously you get the health complications and everything and I think a lot of people just want to be able to see it finished. To get fully caught up you have to read over 20,000 pages of the manga and watch over 350 hours of anime. A lot of people have. I could not. I sampled the anime and the manga. I watched the animated movies, which are good summaries

of the major story arcs. And I watched the live action show, which I really liked. But what got me hooked were the characters' backstories. That may seem like a trivial thing, but they are crucial to One Piece. In fact, when I get to the climactic moment when we learn a character's backstory, it was like when you're watching a musical and you're waiting for the big song and dance number, or you're watching a martial arts film and you're waiting for the big fight sequence. The backstory is the show-stopping moment that's going to elevate everything to a new level. And I wanted to figure out, what is Oda doing exactly? How has he taken this very common storytelling device

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On this podcast, I've talked about constructed languages like Klingon, Elvish, or Dothraki. And I'm always amazed that actors can learn these languages and speak them fluently. Well, this year I set out to learn a language in the real world, French. Babel has been a great resource. Babel isn't like a game to occupy your time and make you feel like you're learning a language. Babbel was developed by over 150 expert linguists. Studies from Yale, Michigan State University, and others have continued to prove that Babbel is better. I like it because the interface is easy. Babbel's advanced speech recognition is like having your

own personal language coach to help you improve your pronunciation. The voices sound like real people, not AI voices. And I always feel like such a good student every time I hear the right answer sound. They also offer live sessions. I was able to have a one-hour live conversation with a teacher in France and four other people around the world. Here's a special limited time deal for our listeners to get you started right now. Get 55% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners, at babbel.com slash imaginary. Get 55% at babbel.com slash imaginary. Spelled b-a-b-b-e-l dot com slash imaginary. Rules and restrictions may apply. Heads up, this episode contains a lot of spoilers, but it would take you months of

dedicated reading and watching to get fully caught up. Now, I was hesitant to get into One Piece at first, and not just because of the time commitment. The world is very cartoony. There are silly creatures like a sea cow, which looks like a hybrid of a cow and a whale. There are tons of gags, like when the crew realizes that Luffy stuffed an octopus down his pants. Do you mind telling us why that thing's in your pants? He helped us out when we fell from the sky, so I wanted to keep him safe. Wasn't that gross for him or the octopus? Gross how?

So at first glance, I didn't think that One Piece had much depth to it. I was very wrong about that. One Piece can go from zany moments to tragic moments in a matter of minutes. The tonal shifts are wild. But Shannon doesn't feel whiplash because everything is so melodramatic, the happy moments and the sad moments. And she thinks that reflects Oda's attitude towards the world that he's creating. I think it's his optimism. The work, too, it's sort of a meta thing. Like, One Piece is super sincere, which especially now I feel like is harder to find in Western works. She compared it to the style of Joss Whedon of Buffy and Marvel

fame. There's a lot of Joss Whedon-y sort of like self-effacing sarcasm in a lot of media that I don't really like personally. It's like the work is embarrassed of itself if it gets too silly. Because it's like, if the thing I'm watching doesn't believe in itself, why am I watching it? For example, one of my favorite characters is Tony Tony Chopper. He's a member of Luffy's crew. Chopper is a very cute little reindeer man. He has a huge head and a tiny body. His antlers poke out of his oversized hats, which are often pink or blue or both. And when he gets excited, his little arms wave up and down. Oh, wow, Chopper, between your medical skills and talking to animals, you've got some amazing talents. Don't be silly, you jerk. Flattering me like that isn't going to make me happy or anything.

He sure looks happy. But his backstory is so sad. Chopper started out as a normal reindeer, except he had a blue nose, so he was an outcast like Rudolph. And then he ate one of those devil fruits, which gives you powers. The devil fruit turned him into a little talking reindeer man. But when he needs to fight, he can enlarge himself into an enormously tall and muscular reindeer man. So he was an outcast among humans and animals. But a human doctor felt compassion towards him and took him on as an apprentice.

But a human doctor felt compassion towards him and took him on as an apprentice. The doctor was actually not a very good doctor, but he meant well. When the doctor got sick, Chopper tried to cure him. But the batch of medicine that Chopper made accidentally poisoned his father figure. Before the doctor could die of Chopper's poison, he blew himself up. I've had a marvelous life! Thank you, Chopper's poison, he blew himself up. So when Luffy found Chopper and asked him to join their pirate, but I can't ever be one of you. I'm not human. I'm a monster. I can't be your friend and I can't become a pirate on your ship. You see? Daniel Dockery is a writer for the Psych Crunchy role. create a if you can create a flashback story that gets you to sob over a little reindeer man and a doctor who's not good at his job but believes so much in the efficacy of what that job means

there's so many times that Oda takes these like takes these characters even if they're not very cute and just wrenches your heart with them but it's you know, a masterful storyteller at work to be like, oh, Oda got me again. There I am. The tonal shifts are very abrupt, but it doesn't feel like a soap opera. The drawing style is so expressive, it feels natural that these characters would have very dramatic backstories and feel their emotions strongly. They're so deeply moving. A lot of times the backstories are about people that spoke from the heart and were persecuted for it. He's very, very good at like tugging on your heartstrings in a way that isn't cliched or saccharine. Again, here's Shannon. Everything in the backstory not only ties into why does this character behave this way, even if we didn't previously understand it,

it makes total sense. And they also tie into the ideology of what he's trying to say. Like there's a lot of anti-fascist stuff, a lot of anti-racist, anti-colonial stuff that I think is really valuable. And it was valuable for me to read it when I was little too. I think it did, as far as a piece of media, like a comic I read, could change my worldview. It definitely did. like a comic I read could change my worldview. It definitely did. Luffy's crew, the Straw Hats, are good pirates, even if some of them didn't start out that way.

But there are bad pirates. They're mean and greedy. And many stories culminate with Luffy having to fight the bad pirates, who often have their own superpowers. But many of these villains have surprisingly sympathetic backstories. I think the most extreme example is Senior Pink. He is like a gangster pirate who dresses like a baby. He wears sunglasses, a half shirt, shorts that look like a diaper, and a giant baby bonnet. And he holds a pacifier in his teeth like it's a cigar. Senior Pink seems like a one-joke villain. And then we learn in a flashback, he was once a regular criminal who was trying to be a family man. One day,

his wife told him that their baby son had died. He came down with a sudden fever. I rushed him to the hospital, but he didn't make it. You lied. You lied! I called the bank over and over, but they told me you were never employed there. Tell me the truth.

What do you really do for a living? Where did the money come from? Say it! When she found out the truth, she ran from him and got caught in a landslide. She ended up in a vegetative state. Senior Pink dressed as their infant son to try and get her to smile. Don't I look like him? You used to say he had my face. I'll do anything. Just show me that smile. She does smile, but she stays in her vegetative state, so he keeps dressing like a baby. Jordan has noticed consistent themes

in the backstories which Oda writes. Discrimination, abuse, abandonment. Like, he definitely touches on that a lot, like parent abandonment or, you know, trust issues as well. I almost want to wonder if he went through some traumatic thing where he was abandoned by his parents when he was younger or something because that's what he does for almost every character.

And the characters are carrying around a lot of survivor's guilt. One of the most reoccurring things in these flashbacks is the parental figure that sacrificed themselves or their passing put these characters on their journey. That is Steve Yerko. He is a storyboard artist on Rick and Morty, and he does artwork for Shannon Strucci's One Piece podcast. One of the great things about flashbacks is the brief time you spent with it. You're introduced to these characters you probably have not seen in the present timeline because they die in these flashbacks, giving just such

like a great reason to why these characters are missed. Almost like it's one of your own loved ones. One of Steve's favorite characters is Sanji. Sanji is the cook on Luffy's crew. Sanji is suave and stylish with a cigarette dangling from his mouth. But whenever he sees beautiful women, Sanji loses his cool and swoons over them. Sanji actually has two tragic backstories. In the first one, we learn that when he was a kid, he was stranded on a desert island with a chef, who later became

his mentor. The chef ate his own leg so young Sanji could survive. By One Piece standards, for me. By One Piece standards, that would have been enough. But later on, Oda added a second backstory. We learn that when Sanji was even younger, his father used to torment him. I used to hold on to all the resentment from so many years ago. What did I do wrong, Dad? Let me out. I'm sorry. I'm sorry that I was born so late. He was kind of the black sheep of his family and just outcasted for just being kind and generous

and not cold and emotionless like his siblings were engineered to be. and i wouldn't say i was the black sheep in my family and all that but you know i kind of always grew up to be you know just a personable and easygoing and nice person and you know that's not always looked upon as positive traits of a boy or a man. There's a lot of toxic masculinity in Sanji's backstory. And it's like, I sympathize with this because Sanji didn't really want to be a brute or a fighter. He just, he had a passion and his passion was cooking and he really liked doing that. And that was seen as like a weakness.

And, you know, that hit kind of hard because I, you know, I always just liked art. That's the thing I always want to pursue in life. And I really didn't care about knocking anyone else down a peg or competing with others. And talking with fans, I noticed that a lot of them were drawn to specific backstories because they resonated with them personally, even if the backstories were totally fantastical. One of Jordan's favorite characters is Nico Robin. She starts out as an antagonist of the Straw Hat crew. Eventually she joins them, but not everyone on the crew is willing to accept her at first.

You may have fooled these idiots, but I'm not convinced. You pull anything, and I'll personally kick you out. All right. I'll keep that in mind. I guess I could relate to her a little bit because she never really, she knew who her mom was,

but she never really had time to spend with her mom because her mom was like, just constantly on the seas. She was an archaeologist. She was like one of the most famous archaeologists uncovering the secrets of the world and the government didn't like that. So the world government wiped out the island that Robin came from. She survived. Her mother did not. Robin had to become a fugitive, but she was an outcast even before that. When she was a kid, she ate one of the devil fruits. That gave her the power to project her limbs onto any surface. It became very useful in combat, but when she was young, people on her island were scared of her.

It really broke me because she got to a point where she was struggling to stay alive and she was by herself all alone. She had a bounty on her head, so she couldn't really ever trust anybody. Including the Straw Hat crew. I've dragged you into my troubles twice already. If it goes on and on like this, no matter how kind you may be, someday you'll see me as a burden. Someday you'll be forced to betray me and throw me away. That's what I'm most afraid of.

Understand? That's why I didn't want you to rescue me. If that's the only future I have, I'd rather die to save me the pain. Seeing that she finally had people that actually cared about her, that she could actually trust, that really just wanted to be her friend and not use her, she broke down and screamed,

I want to live. And that was probably one of the most powerful moments in the entire anime that really hooked me on the show. Shannon also identified with Robin for different reasons. Especially as someone, I'm a little bit more emotionally reserved and I've dealt with a lot of, like in my own life when I was a kid,

some really traumatic stuff. And I felt like maybe I've been misunderstood or like being a queer person in a conservative area and being told that, not by my like family or anything, but like generally being told that that's evil or that's wrong. And the fact that, you know, she by my family or anything, but generally being told that that's evil or that's wrong. And the fact that she's told again and again,

just existing is not a crime, you're okay. Just by being yourself or existing, you haven't hurt anybody. It's not your fault, regardless of what the wider culture thinks of you or how many people are against you. So all these characters are burdened by their past. The big question is, how do they move forward? In One Piece, the character of Sanji is an amazing cook. And while I'm not at Sanji's level of cooking, I can feel like a heroic chef when I use HelloFresh.

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The meal that you're hearing me prepare is meatballs with a bulgogi sauce, roasted carrots, ginger rice, and creamy sriracha. It was so delicious. Go to hellofresh.com slash imaginary free and use the code imaginary free for free breakfast for life. One breakfast item per box while your subscription is active. That's free breakfast for life at hellofresh.com slash imaginary free using the code imaginary free. HelloFresh, America's number one meal kit. How does the writer N.K. Jemisin use her background in psychology to create characters? That's one of the many things that I learned from her class on sci-fi and fantasy. She is an instructor on Masterclass.

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and get one free class at masterclass.com slash imagine. Right now, you can get two memberships for the price of one at masterclass.com slash imagine. Again, that's masterclass.com slash imagine. Offer terms apply. class.com slash imagine offer terms apply. Daniel noticed another pattern with the one piece backstories. The heroes and villains often come from equally tragic circumstances, but the members of the straw hat crew develop a different attitude towards what happened to them in their lives. develop a different attitude towards what happened to them in their lives.

They choose to take this thing and use it to kind of instill a greater strength in them. And that's what kind of separates them is a villain will experience this big, tragic moment, and they will use it as a thing of pride, as a reason to, you know, a reason to release their worst urges. Again, here's Jordan. I would say a lot of the reason why some of those people just turn out really bad is just because they don't have anyone else in their corner and they don't have anyone to help them get out of that, you know, depth of despair before it's like the point of no return, you know, and I think it's the self-acceptance. If they just accept that what they happened to them

was, you know, a random coincidence, or if they just think that it's not fair that I went through this, that it's also something that can probably add to whether they become a villain or a quote-unquote hero. But not every villain in the show has someone like Luffy to, like, break them, you Luffy to get them out of that dark place. So I think Luffy is still the big deciding factor in whether they become good or

evil, to be honest. But Monkey D. Luffy is a very unlikely character to inspire someone's personal growth. Most of the time, Luffy's silly. He's childlike. He's a goofball. He can stretch himself like a rubber band. But he will become deadly serious if anyone threatens his crew. Again, here's Steve. I would say there's a bit of purity to Luffy. It's pure that I don't think he could be corrupted. I don't think he's not afraid. He's not afraid to fail. He has this kind of positivity that, you know, that he sees in his crewmates and potential crewmates that he truly believes in them. In fact, the story of One Piece isn't about Luffy having a big transformative character arc. I mean, he does become a lot more powerful,

but he's really more of a catalyst for change for other people. The members of his crew have their own goals, but at some point along the way, many of them give up or they question themselves. Jordan says Luffy has helped them see that their goals are worthy and that they're worthy. He doesn't see them as an object or a tool, which is what most of them were used as their entire life. And the fact that knowing that he does all that without wanting anything in return at all, I think is what just really made them resonate with him so much and have loyalty towards him and want him to want to help him achieve his goal of becoming king of the pirates i'm going to the grand line to find the all blue i'm gonna be king of the pirates

the world's best swordsman i'm going so i can draw a map of the entire world i guess i'm going The last voice you heard was the character Usopp. Usopp is an excellent marksman with a slingshot. And when the crew is fighting a battle, he rises to the occasion over and over again. But Usopp is often afraid. He's very insecure. He makes up all these stories about incredible things he never did. Daniel actually loves that aspect of the character. He wants to have that kind of bravery.

He wants to have that kind of bravery inherently. And he never quite does. And I think that's the point of the story is that Usopp's story, as a person, as a normal person, you will never quite have the sense of innate storybook bravery that you see these people have,

that you see Luffy have. As Luffy has them like to supernatural quantities. But that doesn't mean that you stop trying to be brave. His favorite storyline with Usopp had to do with their ship. The crew acquired their first ship in the storyline when they first met Usopp. Usopp kind of takes care of the ship and it's getting beaten up and beaten up and beaten up. And Usopp, as the story goes, gets beaten up and beaten up and beaten up. And he wins kind of

by luck and by chance and by scheming. And Usopp grows to kind of heavily relate himself to the ship. And so when they decide we need to get a new ship, the ship is falling apart. Usopp takes it kind of upon himself as the ship means me. If they're this willing to get rid of the ship that's taken them to so many places, they could easily get rid of me. Don't worry. I'll fix you up right away. Every time.

As many times as you need. No matter what. I'll always take care of you. Always. Yet, Usopp has their way for the rest of the series, where he's very much like, he's very much grappling with his own insecurity about his place among all of these powerhouse people of the sea. And his constant thing is, no, I have to be brave. I have to be brave.

It sounds really simple, but this kind of unwavering sense of not giving up. This kind of resolute, why give up? I used to give up on stuff a lot, all the time. If I wasn't immediately good at it, no, I didn't want to do it anymore. And One Piece has kind of taught me to put more time into stuff that I'm not immediately good at from the beginning. Kind of like Usopp, because he's not immediately good at being a brave warrior of the sea, but he can try. And if he tries enough, he prevails.

And that's kind of what One Piece has taught me is that liking and going for stuff is always kind of inevitably going to be hazardous. But if you just try it and just take the chance on trying it, you know, you don't know if it's going to fail or succeed, but the succeed part, there's always a chance for that. These themes of self-acceptance and found family are what makes a lot of fans feel like they're part of the crew. There's a lot of people who like Straw Hat crew members a lot because they relate to their very distinct either aspiration or very distinct brand of loneliness. And I don't mean that in a bad way. I mean that in a way that everybody, everybody in the world

at times kind of feels like they're by themselves. No matter who you are, you felt like you're the only person who believes something, or you're just the only person who connects with you. And one piece is about the fact that what if you're wrong? What if no matter what character you identify with or, you know, what plot point you identify with, that there is something out there for you that's very good and it's other people. And I think also it's why people take One Piece to their real lives so often, because you might be the Luffy for somebody else. Someone else might be the Luffy for you. And Shannon says,

if there isn't a Luffy in your life, you can get the X tattoo of the straw hats. And a ton of people, including people I know get the X tattoo on their left arm. Like if you're at an anime convention and you see people with an X on their arm, it's a hundred percent. And like,

there probably are hundreds, if not thousands of people who got that specific tattoo that are about like, you belong with us and we belong with you. That's the feeling that it evokes in people. Oda has indicated that he's reaching the end of One Piece. There's a lot of discussion about how the story could end

and what mysteries are left to be resolved. But there's one lesson that the fans have already learned. How to see the difficult events of your past as being part of your backstory, and not your entire story. That's it for this week. Thank you for listening.

Special thanks to Steve Yerko, Shannon Strucci, Daniel Dockery, and Jordan Silva. There are so many One Piece characters with great backstories that I just didn't have time to cover. Let me know which ones really spoke to you. If you liked this episode, you should check out my previous episodes

about Cowboy Bebop, Sailor Moon, Ghost in the Shell, Neon Genesis Evangelion, and the films of Miyazaki. My assistant producer is Stephanie Billman. If you like the show, please give us a shout out on social media or leave a review wherever you get your podcasts. That helps people discover imaginary worlds. The best way to support imaginary worlds is to donate on Patreon.

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