Joe Rogan Experience Review podcast - 4: JRE Review of Kyle Kingsbury and Firas Zahabi

Episode Date: June 22, 2018

The Joe Rogan Experience gets a review this week by Adam and guest Dave. This week Joe sits down with Kyle Kingsbury and Firas Zahabi. Listen and enjoy! 

Hello and welcome to podcast 4 of JRE Review for week 25. Now we're kind of only halfway through the week but because of how things lined up, that's how I'm doing the podcast. So we have Kyle Kingsbury on this week and then Ferras Sahabi. And both MMA fighters, both guys whose careers I followed forever and Ferras is obviously more of a coach. He's GSP's coach and Joey St. Pierre out of Canada is probably I'd say the greatest martial artists of all time especially recently coming back and beating Michael Bizzving at middleweight and jumping up a weight class and being out of the fight game for

what, like four years? Unbelievable. It's absolutely phenomenal. But, uh, where Kyle, Kyle Kingsbury is, he's also an MMA guy. He's retired now. He was on the ultimate fighter. What season was that? These and I don't remember, but he was on there and now he He's also an MMA guy who's retired now, who's on the ultimate fighter. What season was that? I don't remember, but he was on there and now he works for Onet, which is a company that Joe Rogan runs. And Onet, as everyone knows, who listens to Joe, is an all-health improvement supplement company that also sells kettlebells and other great

things. And they do. They get a good product. So Kyle is working for them now. And this podcast was great because you really got into some fascinating things about different types of drug therapy. Today on the podcast, I have a guest and a friend of mine, Dave, say hello, Dave, introduce yourself if you don't mind. Hi, I'm David Guerrero, nice to be here. Now, Dave and I work together, and he, Dave is also an actor, and we are going to probably, we're going to start doing some podcasts, maybe. This is my first time being a guest on a podcast.

I always wanted to try and do it myself at one point, but since you've already got the ball rolling, this is exciting for me. There we go, easy, right? We'll do it this way. So we got some beers and we're gonna get token and, yeah, I'm gonna sell Dave on the wonders of the Joe Rogan podcast.

When I've always been a fan of Joe Rogan, actually the last time I listened to a podcast of his, he was in an Uber car, and the Uber driver was listening to Joe Rogan, and he had a Matt Taibi one of my favorite reporters on the show. He writes for Rolling Stone. Oh nice. So I recognized Matt Taibi's voice,

and I was like, is that Matt Taibi? And the driver was like, how did you recognize that voice? And I was like well, you know happened That was that fairly recently. Yeah. Yeah. I that was a great podcast because they were talking it. Who's the Fear and loathing reporter on arrest of course and the end like he that the guy that you were talking about was was Massively influenced by him and they say they people say that they have kind of somewhat similar writing styles to some degree. Yeah, he was the one that was breaking down the 2008 financial crisis. That's it. Yeah. Yeah, really just breaking it down for all of us lay people that wanted to understand it.

And he would just, you know, it was, he's a great reporter. He's one of my heroes. Yeah, that was such a complicated problem that almost no one still understands and he did really kind of help out I'm like thank God. Yeah, there's somebody to take the time to figure this out. Right. Yeah It's good stuff and he was always a guest on a democracy now and other, you know, new shows that I tend to go towards so that's how You know came across that. Yeah, he's great. He was fantastic. So much smarter than I will ever be,

and thank God he is this, right? There's so many of these people, and it's really important. I'm like, I'm happy to sit there and be dumb and just be like, okay, what can I get from this? Yeah, you know, and what am I learning? Exactly, like those kind of reporters like him and Jeremy Scayhill and people that are investigative

journalists and not just doing bumper sticker slogans to get people, you know, to think one thing or another. Yeah, but then also then they get a three-hour platform on a podcast, like millions of people download and listen to and how important is that? Yeah. Because how much can you get across in an article that you constantly editing? Really, but now he just gets free flow. You just go, you learn who that person is, how he gets his information. Which is kind of inspiring because when you read something you're more likely to go, oh, that's legit. Because I know he does that work, right? He know what he goes through.

He's fucking really sifting through the shit to find out that information. Yeah. It's just, I don't know, with all of the way that that crisis unfolded, I really wanted there to be a silver lining. Like this is what we've learned. It just sounds like we've learned nothing, they got away with everything and they took all the money. And they're doing it again.

Yeah. Which is really just the biggest atrocity is that these guys are doing the same kind of practices in a different form. Right. So it's something that he know the details of that, but I just I just know that they're it's shady. He was saying there's some sort of subprime thing going on in like used cars or auto-sales. And he says that's like the new worry. I think of you to sell a car or somebody that can't afford the loan and then they'd

you fault on it and then somehow they still make money Yeah, you know, or they just like we selling the loan again and then it's like you all of a sudden you don't like the people that Had the loan the first place someone else has it right and then they talked about fuck. Yeah, and they talked about the renters bubble That there was a renters bubble potential in the future That you know all these big big companies or big, you know, rich people buying up an apartment building, but then if there's nobody to move into it, what happens if that apartment building is empty? You know, that gets a little more confusing above my... Right, right, right.

Brain capacity at the moment to understand and need somebody else to bring this up. Well, that sucks, because you can't, you can barely buy a house these days. And now you can't rent either. No, fuck, we're here. Well, that's what's happening in Los Angeles. I mean, there's the rents are crazy, right? So the silicone beach thing spiking up rents. People are like, oh, sweet.

People are coming in with huge salaries. Let's get them into apartments. I'll buy this building and charge $3,000 a month for the bedroom, which is totally out of, you know, affordable, it's not really affordable. I hate no, it's a man, no. Just them, you just fill in the building with Silicon Valley people and-

Yeah, with Google employees and my app. Yeah, with Google employees. No one else can afford the data. Yeah, nobody's paying the construction worker that kind of salary. So, yeah. Maybe one day. Here we go again. We'll see what happens, but hopefully there is a silver lining somewhere.

Well, it's important that these people break it down, right? It's important that they talk about it, people mention it, and then someone gets ahead of it. It's just people at least looking for it. Whereas before almost no one did. It was like that guy with one eye from the movie that Christian Bae played him. The big short. He was like the guy that saw it,

and then like one or two other people. Like maybe this time around 50 people will see it. Right. Because the narrative has been told. It's like, here is the story of how it went before. Keep your fucking eyes peeled. Because no one had an idea. Yeah, because the big short was interesting,

because they kind of like empathized with the guys that were shorting the market, you know? Yeah. Which was a fucked up thing. Yeah. I mean, completely, they're betting against the real estate market in order to short these banks Which is messed up you know the problem? Why don't you call the better business viewer or report it to that but those guys almost so who the fuck could they talk to they couldn't

Everyone was just pretending he didn't happen right. It wasn't happening because the SEC was in and in on it too Yeah, and then they're like well Can you really feel bad for somebody that's like look?, I've figured this out. This is what's happening. I'm writing essays on it. People can read them. You know, really the best thing they should have done is get on a fucking Joe Rogan podcast, but it wasn't that big, man. It wasn't big enough. It would have taken three hours for them to explain it. Nobody would have understood what they were told. Yeah, Joe Rogan could actually get Steve Carell or somebody on there that was in the movie that I'm just gonna do. Yeah, a fun thing. He could do it now. He could do it now, but maybe that's the idea, right?

Maybe he's open to these things and that's why I love a lot about this show. Not only the amount of time they have to describe what they're talking about without sound bites and commercial stops and those sorts of things, but like these processes are complex and you need to talk about them for a long time. Joe is kind of like the in between quote and quote regular guy trying to make sense of it. But he's also a brilliant mind that can break it down to. Yeah, he's a smart dude, but he also looks at things in a simple way. Like he just be like, oh this is this his questions are all

You know, it's like you could be a scientist on there But it's not like two scientists talking to each other now. It's just Joe the normal dude talking to the scientists Right and you know his responses aren't stupid. No, so it's it's awesome. Well, you know and then With Kyle Kingsbury who's a friend of his, same sort of thing. Kyle's not a scientist. He's an ex, mixed martial artists, he fought for the UFC, super tough guy, but very knowledgeable with training, supplementation, and these sorts of things. So there's the company on it that I was talking about. Joe has been an investor in this for this guy called Aubrey Marcus. For a long time, Aubrey is real cool. He's like a psychedelic explorer.

You know, Iwaska, DMT, like really into like the healing benefits of these things, but also super in the health, his training, again, he eats keto, Joe does, Kyle does, so they're really trying to figure out the best way for the body to work and just kind of, you know, and these guys are getting older now, they're like in their 40s, Joe is 50. He's start thinking about what it's going to take. So, you know, Kyle's a bit of a guinea pig for the company, which is good and bad. So he's had plenty of diarrhea, you know what I mean? He's like, trying different stuff. And because it's not, you know, there's one thing to say, what's FDA approved? And then, oh, this is all safe, and most of that shit kills you anyway.

And then they're like, oh, here's this hippie mushroom, you know, it's natural. So you're like, oh, that'll be fine. But it's not FDA approved. But then you end up getting sick off it, because it's like, well, where did you even get this? Right. So he's always trying different things. And what's cool about it is they try and make it as scientific as they can. Right? So it's about consistency of like whatever products they sell. And then they're always on the cutting edge of what

research is out there. So some of the big stuff that he was talking about was have you ever heard of MDMA therapy? Right, so MDMA obviously, ecstasy, is that's the joint. I'm familiar with it. Yeah, of course. I was a run to Burning Man in 2000. Yeah, so you have a feel for that and the calm down and where did my parents go and those sorts of things. Yeah. So with the therapy though, it's really interesting because the idea behind it is that taking these very pure doses of MDMA and then depending on what the therapy is, let's say it's like

PTSD therapy, which is an important one, they try and take the patient, I guess you would call them, back to the point of the trauma like the scary thing that they constantly thinking about and associating with like just awful stuff but now they feel euphoric and they think about that trauma in a euphoric state and it kind of redefines it at least that's the theory it's a good therapy for people in depression. The years ago, there was an article in the New York Times. I mean, Charles, I think I was still living in New York

at the time, which we moved out here in06. So this article, this man who was totally depressed, lost his entire family, was in his 60s. Never done drugs. But he was completely depressed. And he tried mushrooms for the first time I think it was. Or was it LSD and small doses? Either way, it's even back then, this thing pulled him out of his depression,

these hallucinogens that he used. He finally saw the world in a different light after losing his entire family. And he came out of his depression. And I want to look look that article up actually now that you bring it up because it really was like 2005, like the decade ago, that it was in the New York Times. And it was from when, from before that, or it was something that happened in 2005.

No, like the guy was a recent article about this, man, that had lost everything in his life and was about to suicidal. And hallucinogens helped him heal. And it's fascinating. It really is, especially because the other options are so damning. You take a bunch of antidepressants or antipsychotics. There are a lot of times they're really addictive.

People really struggle on them that you struggle like fuck to get off them. It changes your personality, especially those, what do they call them, SSRIs, that are like pro-Zack, it just kind of makes some people feel numb. The thargic. Yeah, and then it's like what kind of quality of life are you having then? of life that you're having then, yet at the same time we see these cases where people take some psilocybin or LSD, like Sir Jackasset, and they're just, you know,

they're getting real benefits and no one wants to look at it. Nobody's like, maybe we should look at this because these people are fucking killing themselves. If it's a question of just money, which is always the big thing, right, with pharmaceutical companies,

and people are like, oh, well, they won't make that legal because we can't make money. Surely they can figure out a way to still make money. It's like nobody's gonna be... Well, especially with the making their own LSD, are they? Well, the recent microdosing, which are people are doing, like on their own, and I think that,

if I'm not mistaken, there is some scientific research on this that's happening with microdosing and helping people get out of depression that way. It's nice. Which, yeah, it sounds like a great idea. Right. And it's a great idea. It takes some LSD today, but it doesn't seem

just a little bit. Just a little bit. Takes a memdm day today. It'll be a fun day. We start going to Whole Foods and we're like, there's a guy freaking out and I'm 12 attacking the chips. He's like, he's not micro dosing the right way. And the M.A. is tricky though,

because since I've done it several times and my problem with it is the false euphoria that you might experience that there's somehow the next day you feel like, oh, what was such a fool? Because I took too much and I maybe acted not like myself. Right. Just like alcohol sometimes can do. Sure.

Many times. But that was my problem with it back, you know, when I was in college was, you know, you get, oh, it took a back rub and this and that. And, you know, you're hanging out with friends, but it's so phony. It's nice. It's like, you don't really love them that way. But if you're using it for getting into your feelings, your mental feelings, like, I can see that being more of a benefit than just getting a back rub. You know what I mean?

Well, this brings up a great point because it then Like it's it's a way of looking at these things as a medicine rather than as like oh I'm just doing this to get fucked up Yeah, so when you do it that way you your dosage is all over the place This is why people take too much of stuff and they freak out Well, they just don't have a good time and then you're like using it to record and what's it and you let what doing Where you're like right? I'm gonna buff those and think about you know You set your intention kind of a ayahuasca thing. Yeah, and then you and then maybe you you do it with someone else And then you you already have like bullet point not to make it so regimented where you're taking the fun out of it But you have some structure to like what you want to do

and think about. It's like with those float tanks. Do you know about float tanks? No, like, what do they, is it like from, like deprivation, like altered states? No, no, no, no. So it's like, they,

you're kind of right? They have, they have, they have one in Venice, float lab, which is super popular, and it's where I like to go. What it is is a tank that you go in, and it's full of water to like 11 inches,

so not very deep, so less than a foot. It's warm, it's super dark, it has 1100 pounds of Epsom salts, and so you're floating, right? So it's just like, you're not kind of like completely. 1100 pounds of salt. You need a lot of salt, there's all them water to saturate it. Law of salt. Yeah, time. So literally. And then you're so you float in there. And again, it's like it's two hours of silence with your own mind. And we are talking about this actually before the podcast.

Yeah. You're saying people don't want to think about what's going on in their own mind. But it's nice to just for a second have it quiet and see, you know, how much of a lunatic you really are. Like there's a lot of stuff spinning around in that. Well, again, people augment that by taking some edibles and going in there. Or maybe they just smoke and go in there. Or some people even shrooms and the guy that invented the float tanks And they were actually talking about it on the this last podcast would go in and do intravenous LSD and stay in the float tank for as much as 10 hours now

intravenous LSD yeah, so Injected yeah, it's like you have a I think you they had like a drip setup it. Wow. He's used a doctor too, so he could like organize all of this now. That's going down the rabbit hole a little deep, right? Definitely. But it also does show a little bit of something. Like these things are being used as a therapy, right? In a sense, like a medicine, right? So you've got this MDMA therapy which is a better way of

destigmatizing that drug than just being like all these are these drug is used just for raves right? It's showing a use a real use that can replace other drugs that are way worse and causing major problems for people and then take something like that float tank, with everything going on in mind, that doesn't require any drugs. It just requires two hours of your life and a little bit of focus to get in there.

And basically you're learning how to relax. Do people have euphoric experiences and epiphanies in there? What's the result after they get out? Yeah, I haven't talked to a ton of people about it, but some of the things I've heard, I mean, there's some visual hallucinations that can happen, even sober, just, you know.

It's so dark in there, you mind your eyes are open, so you're trying to see anything. Sommi dreaming. Yeah, in that kind of does happen. You can kind of like fall in and out of sleep too, which does take you to a very relaxing kind of weird place. And I don't know how beneficial sleeping in there is. Like sometimes it's happened to me,

like I kick myself in and out of sleep a little bit. So you don't want to fall asleep. Well, you can, it's okay. But I mean, if you just slept for two hours through it, you kind of wasted the point of going down there, which is just to sit quietly with your mind and just see what you're thinking about and get some peace with it right because stuff will run around all day long and if you stay busy enough

you don't you don't even have the time to sit and listen to it. And just don't just hope you don't turn into the monster like William Hurten Altered States. Right, yeah which is a crazy reference if anybody has never seen Altered States. That's a really great movie. Google it. Yeah, which is a crazy reference if anybody has never seen all their states. That's a really great movie. Google it. Yeah, Google all their states with William Hurray, which is amazing. Well, but I think that's why people don't want to go into those things as well.

Sure. They are scared of what they might say. And maybe we should be. There's a reason for that. You know, that's great, but don't you want to face your fears. I mean, our life should be about facing fear. The problem is whether you want to or not,

I think you have to. Yeah. Because I think it's gonna constantly plague you and make you sad if you don't. Yes. That's the end of it. It's like, I don't, I don't really give a shit about facing fears.

I just, the journey that I've had that makes me do things that are hard that I'm scared of is because I don't feel like I have a choice. I feel like there's gonna be some fear around you. It's either in front of you or behind you. It's either stopping you doing everything or pushing you forward to do everything, right? You're running away from it and some...

Well, you don't have like a specific fear because I do, I'm gonna have a fear of sharks. Right, so diving is my fear too, because I'm being immersed in water. Like, basically you're saying an irrational fear, right? That would be considered rational, even though it is rational. It is irrational, I guess it is, in a way.

It's more rational than being afraid of elevators, right? Yes. Because sharks do kill you. Yeah. But the percentage is really unlikely. It's very. It would be like, oh, I'm afraid of going outside. But the idea of being in by lightning.

Yeah, the idea of being in open water and not seeing what's below me, that's a big, big one. Really? Yeah. Do you think about this a lot? I do, and I have dreams about it. No shit. Yeah, and it freaks me out.

They're like nightmares. Yeah. Can you even like swim away? Is it like one of those or is it just like, it's like, I just can't, yeah, I'm just like, scared that there's gonna be a shark underneath me. Right. And I just have this, and then I wake up.

Right. But then, you know, that's based on my fear of diving, which all my friends do now. And they're like, Dave, you gotta come diving. And I'm like, I love it. I love diving, man. Yeah, and I definitely wanna face it, but I just have to take it's expensive too. It is expensive.

It's like already has a lot of expensive hobbies. And it's gonna be weird and scary, right? Yeah. It could get you there. When I went to Ivan last time, there were some Mako sharks where it was. I was in Carbo and there were two. So they're smaller than I like men kit,

but they look just like the big ones, right? And they're circling me and it's just like, it's just built into you. Like we are fucking afraid of those things. Like we know what they are. As monkeys in the water We fucking know what I'm talking about I think I'm gonna sum up at a young age two, you know like that on my older brothers

You know, I think I think I saw jaws at like age four or something and maybe that was an issue Yeah, well along those lines though, I mean I my fears even more irrational because it's it's the thing that I You know oftentimes that say the thing you're most afraid it's the thing that I, you know, oftentimes that say the thing you're most afraid of is the thing you should do. Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah, I sometimes it makes sense. Sometimes not.

Like, do you need to go in the ocean and face your fear of sharks to really improve your life? Yeah, you know, but there is something to it. Yeah. And mine is, it really is up, so doing stand up. And getting up there and waiting for those moments to bomb and trying to work yourself through a set and writing jokes. Because some of the things happen, sometimes you'll be writing and the set's going well. You're like, oh, this is going to be great.

But it also tells you, oh shit, you're going to have to perform this even more because it's good. And then it's like a good thing that became another scary thing. And it's just a cycle that never ends. It's terrifying to me as a theater actor, but trained, you know, like I went to college and stuff, I think four years, and then you know, jumped out here and did the film thing. But as it, coming from the theater, like, training background, doing stand-up is terrifying to me. What is it, why, being that you're an actor, and so you're in front of people, you can have lines,

you can act like someone else, or whatever. Like, you have all this training which people would think at me is a stand-up of having no experience acting at all. I would think well surely actors can do this no problem. They could at least act like a stand up. What is the fear that you see of it? I think that there's probably the idea

that you're doing your own work and there's a self-conscious nature of that. And also I don't think my jokes are very funny. I don't think I was like as a writer, I don't think I'm the funniest guy in the world, that I would be so nervous doing my own material in front of people versus someone else's that's already accomplished writer. That you can rehearse and rehearse and rehearse and get on stage. And it's been a long time since I've been on stage, but when I was, I was confident that I got out there

and I did my job and I was good. Yeah, and you would know it too. Like you'd be like, I know from previous times doing this well that I'm gonna probably do this well today. Yeah, and you'd have your good nights and bad nights. Right, in the theater, but you always felt You know pumped up and just ready to go because you were rehearsed. Yeah, you know, you know, you'd and you can be through it It's in your body and it's your everything and you're all your actions, and you know It's you just don't get a lot of positive reinforcements from the stand-up really no most of the time

You're just eating plates of dick And then like one night someone to think your joke is good and the next time no one does and you're like is this joke fucking real or not? You know, it's just that's kind of how it goes and Yeah, you get oh no, there's no more. Okay. Sorry brother But yeah, it's it is that and it is terrifying and I think that's why it's the fear that it is and why I focus on it so much. And also why this exists, why I do so many of the things that I do because I'm like, it is hard as I see it being, right? This thing to overcome and maybe you never really do, you just find this piece with it. I feel like a lot of other areas in my life need to be really well rehearsed as well, which

is funny because you kind of feel like, oh, if you become a stand-up, isn't the best thing to do just to like not even have a job live on someone's couch and smoke a lot of weed and then go to open mics. Well, that does work for a lot of stand-ups and I see these open mics as doing this, but I'm just like, no, I have to go to the I'm just like no I have to go to the gym all the time I have to go to jid to all the time I have to just be really focused I have to be nice to the people I have to like work on me not being a massive asshole yeah so then I don't kind of feel sad and then after I bomb horribly on stage and someone's like you suck I don't go home and just can cry myself into a stupid, never-do comedy again.

Like, I have to be able to pick myself up through this and work out the other side. And again, in flow tanks are perfect for it. I practice my set in there. That's crazy. You just go in there and you just think through it and you can kind of imagine the audience. And I mean, do whatever you want in that, right?

You can go in and think about a sharks. Yeah. And, you know, just try and face them there. Yeah, there yeah in a sense I mean who knows how effective that is right but again we're talking about exactly what Kyle was was going over a lot is like the therapies right whether you're using meditation to like work through something or it drugs in a sense like just to find an answer out the other side instead of, I don't know, just booze all the time. Yeah, right?

It's, that's not getting you, I don't know, maybe you never get fixed. Maybe there isn't anything that actually gets fixed with these things, but you can just, you can just take some of that worry out. You know what I mean? Like that, especially that chronic sadness that people get into. I mean, you talk about people with PTSD. Imagine being in those loops and getting forced to just keep reliving this.

And your only solution when you go to the doctor is his more pills. Take these and you google that shit and it's like people can't even get off it. Your life is already almost ruined and now potentially they're also like, oh how would you like a drug habit with that? Yeah and how would you like a drug that makes you completely lethargic and not care and not a real, you know? I wish I could remember more of the drugs than I can't but there's this one that they get on and I think it's an Anti-psychotic but when they get off it they get really bad shakes that can sometimes never go away

Wow, you know you can get stuck with them forever It's either you take the drug then you don't shake or you get off it some people is so so, like, they hate that drug so much they get off, and then they shake almost for average. It's like people with bipolar disorder that can't, you know, that need to take drugs by polar disorders and nasty thing, because people have, like, a high and low, that are just absurd. And they need to take drugs, but those drugs don't, you know,

they don't want to take those drugs, because when they take them in,, but those drugs don't, you know, they don't wanna take those drugs because when they take them in some cases, they don't feel like themselves. Right, yeah. What do they take for bi-putters? Lithium, right? I think it's lithium, yeah. Lithium, yeah.

That's the most popular one. Yeah, I don't know what the effect is for the people taking it. Well, I did it to grow with bipolar disorder years ago and I didn't know it until we were, you know, a month into it. And it was some, it was crazy, like dealing with a person that was just all over the place. Really? Yeah. And then did you see them on their medication?

Yeah, I was like, we had good days and I think that was once you was on medication. But, you know, I didn't communicate any of that stuff to me. Sure. But very personal, I think. It's probably difficult. Yeah, totally. It's probably real difficult to like get that stuff across. Yeah, you don't want to tell people that you're on

medication for being crazy. I mean, they mean yeah. And they don't like, they don't like being called crazy either. Next, you would be like, you're crazy. And you'd be like, what do you mean I'm crazy? You know, I'll be like, what do you mean it that way? You know, I was just saying crazy. It's just like, just a word.

You're just a thing of crazy thing. I was kind of late, but a little bit, I'll be like, I didn't mean it that way. You know what I'm just saying? Crazy. It's just like, just a word. Just the crazy thing. I was kind of late, but a little bit. I'm sorry. But stop eating all the cat food. The next big guess that Joe had on, and it was another one of the MMA shows, and M.A. 32 Ferras Sahabi This guy is a great guy

So he is a coach to one of the greatest UFC fighters of all time Do you know who George St. Pierre is? George St. Pierre is a guy that's been in the UFC for Probably about 13 years now. I think you have another long time. Stage name or something? You just go by. George St. Pianes, his name, yeah. He has not a very tough name. Cheers, Pete.

Well, you know, when he talks, he doesn't seem like a very tough, he's very gentle and polite. And, you know, he just looks like a normal dude, but he's the hardest worker. Yeah. And he has learnt, he has a lot of, I think he has like the most total defenses. He has one of the longest unbeaten championship streaks.

He has belts in multiple weight classes. He took a ton of time off, came back, moved up a weight class and just beat the champion. It's unbelievable. I think classes are there. In a UFC, you have, I think they have, so they got 125, 135, 45, 55, I believe, 170. And then like over 180 or something.

180, five, and then light heavyweight 205, and anything above that up to 269 is Heavyweight 69. Yeah, you can be massive. So you've heard of Brock Lesnar, right? Yeah, he was a heavyweight Okay, he was like ripped and would cut weight to make 269 To go under to the heaviest weight to fight So then he would come into the ring, like he could wait 2.80 when he's in there. And he was a terrifying dude to watch.

I mean, absolutely. And he was a legit football player back in the day. He could run a 40 in like, you know, like a full 5.40 at that weight. Beyond, actually these numbers I just made up, but I know he's very quick. And I know he had a hell of a 40 time. I didn't understand it anyway I can't be bothered to Google it, but he's attacked and a college wrestler that was like undefeated like fucking hundred

Wrestling matches in a row. I mean just brutal. Yeah, so but yeah for GSB to come in like Move up those weights continue to be a champ for as long as he has been and he's a very well thought out individual. I've always known that there's someone behind that guy that's keeping his shit together. Right? And that guy is for us. And it was cool to have him on because I've seen him as a coach forever. I've seen him in the corner of a lot of different fighters that come out of the Canadian fight school that they have up there where George trains.

And, but you never get a, you don't get the hero, you know, you just hear, oh, this guy's a great trainer, but who is he? And it comes in and what was great about it is, he is a complicated intent dude. And he starts throwing down some Einstein and some, you know, Isaac Newton and explaining gravity right away. Just telling Joe, this is what this is. But what was interesting about it is he was getting into pseudo-science. You know when people talking about,

oh, I'm on this cleanse to cleanse toxins. As soon as you hear that, what do you think? That sounds like simple. Sounds like it, right? Yeah, no, yeah, it sounds awful and it sounds like, what does that mean, toxins? Like, what are you talking about? I remember the cleanse thing with a cayenne pepper and whatever, like, when I was working in New York

at the restaurant. Yeah, that's basically this. Lemon and cayenne. Yeah, and it's all they drank for a week and then you try and work with them and you're like, hey, hey, so and so. And then they're like spaced out. Like, the brains have completely malnourished so they can't even drink straight. Yeah, they got no sugar in their body. And they've been

hitting liquid for a week. And somehow you're feeling better. And they're like, I feel great. I feel so in touch. My toxins. I'm like, all you can talk about though.. I just like, you have, you know. Yeah, I'm always, I'm always. I'm always suspicious. I should probably do that the way I, you know, live my life, I should probably do something like that. Well, it's always good to give you a digestive system

a bit of a break, right? But I don't think that it needs to be augmented with anything else. I think that you just stop eating. Just drink some water for a few days, have a tiny, like an apple, just try not to eat a lot. Right. Give it a couple of days break.

You flush it, you know? Yeah, it's a two-something. I mean, you don't have to put in a bunch of cayenne and lemon and fucking all this shit, fucking maple syrup. It's like, who came up with this? Yeah, it's like who came up with it. Someone who's selling maple syrup, I think. And then they came up with it. They came up with it? Someone who's so like maple syrup, I think. And then they came up with it.

They came up with it. They came up with it. So there's that. There's the Whole Foods science. When you're in Whole Foods in their supplement section, it honestly is like it was invented by witches. You look through it. It's like eye of nude.

And it's not a lot of like, it's not a ton of science. I'm amazing. I don't sell cold drinks, right? It's nice to have a non It's like the opposite of going to like a Target and then going to their medicated section and it's all ibiprofen and a bunch of stuff like that So it is nice to have you know a balance and another option. Yeah. But who fucking knows how good any of that shit is? Chinese herbs worked when there was a pharmacy here in Venice. There was this pharmacy, the PH pharmacy. No, it's not. It's not what's, they spelled it with an F.

Pharmacy, anyway. Because you could buy pot there. No, it was medical. Okay. So the medical law passed. And they were selling spellers. They sold pot there. Dude, so the medical law passed and they were selling spellos. They sold a pot there They did had he spill pharmacy, but they had but I got sick one time

I think I came down with the flu or whatever, but What the one took these Chinese herbs and they put this stuff together and I was like whatever it is and they're like drink this with Water and you know It moved whatever I had into my chest and then I was able to expel it. It was, you know, it's interesting. It was very interesting. Well, look, they've been eating shit from thousands of years. Some of that stuff's gonna work.

Chinese herbs work. Where the rhino horn really gives you a bone or not? I mean, I don't know, right? I haven't tried it. I haven't tried it. But maybe it does. It might have some, you know, moral objections to the right. But what is their approach, and really what Ferras was talking about is he was just talking

about like the truth in things because I think the way that he goes about the training with his guys is like as a philosopher. He definitely sounds like a fool. And you see this with, there's another guy called Danahe that's an amazing legs locking specialist in Jiu Jitsu and trains a lot of people. And again, he's like a philosopher. Some of these guys have PhDs in philosophy. Like there's some sort of connection between like the highest level of this martial arts.

And then how centered and calm your mind needs to be to like find the truth in these moments. Because you take fake martial artists, right? Guys that think they're legit, but they're like, yeah, well, but no, no, they're not necessarily meaners. They're like old school, you know, Tai Chi. No, no, no, we, this would work, but we can't actually spa this because people die. They like, how I used to do one. I used to do Ninja Tsu. And Ninja Tsu is a martial art that's very old, it's from Japan. It's like the ninja line

of these things which is kind of comical, but it was a legit martial art. But a lot of it we didn't actually, we never spard. We never directly train with someone. So we're not actually training to fight. And you know the guys that train it will say, oh it's because, because you can't do those moves on people, you're like smash their throat, or your guy gouges their eyes out. So we would just practice the movement of it. But there's a disconnect there. You're not actually doing it. You're just learning these fundamental things. So then you get something like the UFC in the beginning of the 90s comes along

and says, right, all of the martial arts can come together and we're going to find out which one's good. And some of them really fucked up some of the others. Well, Ninja's just kill people, right? So you're going their super quiet, and then you just sneak in and then kill. Yeah, it's over. Yeah, it's not really expiring.

Well, exactly, right? So this was the idea behind it. But we had other things like locks and grabs, and it takes you to a place where you could break arms and things like that. But realistically, the formations just didn't make a lot of sense. And I don't want to talk too much shit about that martial art because I have respect for that.

Absolutely. But it's just not that used for all martial arts. It's just a lot of it is if you're up against a Jiu Jitsu guy, and that's the thing, these philosophers who are also trainers need to sit there and see the real truth. They can't just say, oh, that's a good move, or we use this kick,

but when you take it into the real world, it just leaves you so exposed you get... just get the mallosh. Yeah. You know, you have to see it for a bit. I love that these guys are great thinkers too. Like, you know, it's such a stigma about fighters and that the nature of putting two people in a ring and beating each other up is just, you know. Yeah, thug-ish, ball-barric. Yeah. All those things that you can label onto it,

but that there's another level to their thinking is really actually, you know, you've opened my mind a bit. Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of nice guys, they're really nice and wealth, they're not hyper aggressive, they're not mean, they chill. And they talk about,

GSP talks about how terrified he is of it, too. Yeah. And that shows a real honesty and vulnerability and like, you know, he's not walking around like a con in McGregor like, I'm afraid nothing I'll kill everyone. Which is, I'm looking. Which is cool too.

Which is what martial arts should, you know, teachers, you know, I haven't studied it, but from what I understand, you know, like karate and kung fu and things, there's more about being at peace in the mind or at least, you know, like karate and Kung Fu and things, there's more about being at peace in the mind, or at least, you know, being centered. Yeah. It's definitely not about beating people up. It's definitely not about beating people up. Yeah. You should never want to fight. In fact, if you're a makes-mash, if you're a martial artist and you find yourself getting in a bunch of fights, then you really want to re-value some other healing. Yeah, yeah. Unless you are in a bunch of fights, then you really want to re-evaluate. Some other healing, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Unless you are in a position where you protect, if you're a security guard at a nightclub, then you're protecting people, then that's honorable, and that's where the position you're in. But if you're just a regular dude that keeps getting into the middle of it, and then you re-evaluate, and you're like,

oh, I think I started that. It's a very dangerous, you don't see a lot of bullies at martial arts places, especially if they're getting good. It won't go hand in hand. In fact, I think that why I think kids growing up, bullies and girls should all do some sort of martial art is because I think it would really reduce the bullying problem that happens to everyone.

I watched my nephews do their class, their martial arts karate class, whatever they did one time. My brother brought me and I watched this guy in the dojo, the guy that was teaching them, would they call him a sensei, I guess? Yeah, you feel like. He was telling stories and it was just like,

they had the kids' attention, the kids were just so focused and it was just such a had the kids attention the kids were just so focused and it was just such a learning experience even for me. Yeah it's like sitting there listening and I was just like I love this. It's cool to see it. Yeah it's cool. There's nothing wrong with a little bit of discipline and order. Where else are they getting you know when they go to church well that's boring no kids like that let's be boring. All you gotta school. Yeah exactly. All you gotta school and do it,

and most of that, you just associate with God, I can't wait to get to the playground. But now they're in this class, learning these things that look amazing. Yeah, and they're like, you know. Telling stories, the lessons, the lessons in them, it's just like, that's good stuff. It's absolutely fascinating.

And then you hear that through the voices of people like for us when he's talking, he's explaining shoy's intent, but he believes in his approach. And back to the pseudo science thing, he was basically also saying, look, real science is like that a bit too. We think the real science is just science, that's it. It's peer reviewed, everything's good, we just take it as it. But we got to remember, and good, we just take it out as it's, but we gotta remember, and he was pointing out, a lot of the shickets debunked, you know?

That's what science is always doing. We think something's one way, and then we find out something new in the right place once we've tested them. And that will continue to happen. So we have these things now that look like the truth, and we constantly need to keep exploring through it. And he alluded into that like this is the best way to go about coaching fighters.

Because not to say this is the best move, but this is the best move right now. And for you. Yeah. And exactly. And for your size until that changes. Maybe the fighter then gets better on his feet, right? Maybe before he was mostly a wrestler, this is the best move for you at this time. Now you're getting better on his feet, right? Maybe before he was mostly a wrestler, this is the best move for you at this time.

Now you're getting better on your feet. Let's change this game. And it really is like chess in that sense. Because I don't play a lot of chess. But when I did, you always hear about, you know, people thinking through a four moves ahead, which blows my mind even. I'm like, what does that even mean?

It's tough. Yeah, because it's like exponential, right? Every move is like, what are all the infinite moves after that move and then so on. So, but with fighting, it's gotta be the same way. And then, once that cage closes, the coach is really done. All he gets to do is talk to you for one minute between rounds, but he better hope

that he taught you everything that you fucking needed to know to get in there the way you're in a world of hurt. Because once it's show time, you just have to, you just have to, you can't really think, you just have to do it. No, and that's a, they do say that a lot. You don't really think a lot. It is a muscle memory game. Absolutely.

The coaches at that point can just try and calm you down in between rounds, but whatever's happening is happening. Yeah. And it's mostly, is your mind gonna quit on you? You know, fucking terrifying man. Imagine having a coach someone to get him in that place. I can't imagine that. It's next level. And he's done it forever.

This is why these coaches are so important. And it really came through on that pug class. It was one of the shorter ones that he did for the week, but just learning so much about how well thought out this guy was. And listen to it. And yeah, and how he put it together with, and keeps this man, George St. Pierre,

at the top of his game for as long as he has, was just truly unbelievable. I mean, it was a great week of two really powerful dudes talking, and also it was really at MMA week, all week, and these are important because again, everyone thinks they're meads. Yeah, and that's a grid to sort of debunk that sort of myth. Yeah, I mean, they're not just dummies. Oh, no, just come on and they do the same thing with the hunters that they bring on the hunters are in the same way It takes the hillbilly out of it Yeah, you see that these are real people with a real connection

And it's not a focus and it's not easy to You know, it's hard to track some something and you have to know your shit for six hours through They heels and then not even get a shot off and now you're like, well, we'll do it tomorrow. I will say that growing up with a father who was a big game owner. He was a doctor too, but he was smarter than most of the guys he hunted with. I did meet some serious red necks. Oh, there's some dummies out there.

Let's not forget that they still exist. And the meathead still exists too, like all these things are real. Yeah, but no, it was fine, because I was lucky to have it to father that was educated and successful, and that took me hunting and taught me the proper way of handling the animal and respecting it and all that. You do, yeah. And when you eat that food, it's another level. Sure, we had a freezer full of that, isn't it? Right.

And it's not just like all grabs and food throw it away It's like I remember this thing. Yeah, I remember what it was and carrying it and remember walking into a barn full of Upside down deer Yeah, that's 10 you know what the heck is going on here? Don't worry. You understand one day Boss on that note hey, hey, hey, thanks. Dave, thanks a lot. Oh yeah.

Appreciate this. Come back, let's do this again. That was fun. I look forward to the next time. Thanks for having me. Awesome, and thanks a lot, everybody. Review, comment, ask questions, whatever you want. We're going to bring you more content and keep plugging on with this.

So thanks for listening. We're getting people from all over the world. So tell your friends, get them on board, and keep supporting this podcast and Joe's listening, we're getting people from all over the world. So tell your friends, get them on board, and you know, keep supporting this podcast. And Joe, cheers.