Joe Rogan Experience Review podcast - 401 Joe Rogan Experience Review of Robert Epstein Et al.

Episode Date: September 27, 2024

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You are listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review podcast. We find little nuggets, treasures, valuable pieces of gold in the Joe Rogan Experience podcast and pass them on to you, perhaps expand a little bit. We are not associated with Joe Rogan in any way. Think of us as the talking dead to Joe's walking dead. You're listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review. What a bizarre thing we've created. Now with your host, Adam Thorne.

Might need to be the worst podcast or the best one of all time. Two, one, go. Enjoy the show. Hello and welcome to another episode of the Joe Rogan Experience Review. Coming at you a little late this week, I'm not gonna lie. Little late. You had a busy week. Yeah, busy week.

Co-host today is Rachel. Hello everyone. I don't think I've had a lady on the podcast before talking about Joe Rogan, though, you know, Joe Rogan has plenty of female fans. They do exist. I'm honored to be the first. Yeah. Well, there you go. Um, but who we got this week, we got Kat Timph. I think that's how you say it.

And then Robert Epstein, not related. Um, And then Robert Epstein, not related. Um, but yeah, Kat, first I've heard of her. I think maybe I have seen something referenced. I didn't know she worked over at Fox news. Um, it sounds pretty independent to me and she is funny. She's very funny. has a new book out called You Can't Joke About That, which is, you know,

it's just kind of like the big thing in the world of comedy and whatever these days, like the whole cancel culture thing, you know, what you can't joke about. It's like Ricky Gervais's whole spiel. But then he jokes about it anyway, and then they don't get canceled. So maybe you don't get canceled. But some people are. I think humor in serious topics goes a long way.

I think, you know, having the ability to laugh at yourself in problems that you're having or that people in your life are having and helping them laugh through them, it's really, really valuable. So I'd be interested to see more about that book. Yeah, definitely. I mean, that's what comedy is, right?

It's, you know, often I think about it when, when I've gone through a difficult time and, you know, you're very sensitive about whatever the thing is, whether it's a breakup or, you know, somebody is not interested in you and you're just so sad like it's the end of the world and, and everything's difficult. And then there's just one day where one of your friends makes fun of you about it. And you actually find it funny too. And you're like, oh, I'm over the hump.

It's fixed. That's like a good test for it. And it's not just that the joke is funny. It's like enough time is gone. There's been healing. You've worked through it already. And comedy can do that to all different levels. Even the whole quote unquote too soon.

Then if the joke's good enough. The joke's good enough, exactly. Then it just, it hits and it works. And I think it's also important to remember there will always be some people that don't like the joke. And that's kind of part of what makes a joke good. Not always, I mean, I would say the Jim Gaffigan's out there, the Seinfeld's, they're writing jokes

that no one's gonna get offended by. Right. Right, no one in the audience, whether you, maybe you don't find it as funny, but you're not offended. Yeah. So comedy doesn't always have to do that, but it has a special

place with doing that. It has to be just mildly offensive to be really funny. Or incredibly. Or incredibly super. Yeah. Just overly offensive. It to some degree, but so well crafted. Well, it's something you said a second ago, made me wonder like at what

stage and like the, what is it, the nine stages of grief, does humor take part? You know, cause it's like- Acceptance? Maybe, maybe. I don't know where that falls in the trajectory, but it's, I think humor-

I think that's the last stage. Is it? Okay, well, so you gotta get through all of them before you get last. You go through anger, denial,, you gotta get through all of them before you can laugh. You go through anger, denial, aggression, retaliate. I don't know all the stages. So maybe that's the indicator. Once you can laugh about a situation, then you've processed the grief, right?

A hundred percent. Or just the struggle, right? Whatever that is, it may not be like loss or grief over something. Maybe it's just frustration over something. But that is a good way of looking at it because if you do pick those, like, you know, they always make fun of the Karen at the comedy show. You know, she's up in arms about something that the comedian said.

She isn't, she's stuck in a grief somewhere. Sure. This is like a lot of people that want to spend their lives. Yeah, she's holding on to something real tight. You know, offended. And here's the thing, there are plenty of times where it is appropriate and reasonable to be offended.

Yeah. You know, if someone is actively being cruel to a devastating situation, then there's no room for that. I mean, they're not trying to be funny. And even if they were, it's just some sort of awful bullying. But at a comedy club, it doesn't work like that. A comedy show, it's what they do. They're trying to do that.

Same with a comedy writer. I was gonna say, I think a comedy writer has to be very neutral on a topic to make a joke about it. You have to really understand the delicateness of the opinions on both sides of a topic. Oh, you're saying they have to be neutral in terms of how they really feel about it? Yeah, because they have to be able to make fun

of both sides of it. Otherwise, how can, you know what I mean? Otherwise, it's like just a straight insult. It's not a joke. They have to be pretty neutral. But maybe that's maybe that's not the case all the time. But I would say in general, the funniest comics, you know, for me, typically, you know, they're not real polarized in their opinions.

They're sort of like go with the flow and they just sort of take it and make jokes out of what's going to be funny, right? Not necessarily like everything that they believe, but there's, there's threads of that in there, I guarantee. Well, I, I think that's why she does well on Fox, um, is again, one, she's funny. She's obviously smart. She's got opinions. You know, she's not afraid to say him.

She can debate, she can talk quickly. That kind of is prerequisite for that type of, you know, short, kind of concise blurbs that they do. And, you know, that she's somewhat independent. It creates, I don't want to say the illusion of balance, but more balance than you often get on Fox. I mean, it's so well known for being like heavily right leaning that is it really balancing out left leaning, you know, NBC, CNN type news, or is it just its own bad version of that kind of, you know, leaning propaganda? And I think the answer there is always yes, when it's these different news cycles. It's like you can't, you're not doing a good job by balancing it out because it's not really a balance.

It's not a seesaw of news. You would have to be flashing back and forth between CNN and Fox News and people don't do that. They just stick with their one that they like or their couple and that's it. We just desperately need more actual balanced news and not ones that just constantly repeat fair and balanced and unbiased 900 times a day. I mean, that's literally how they describe their own channel to you while you're watching it. Yeah, I think, yeah, I think, um, and it's like, just do it. Don't tell us. We had a conversation in the past about how Fox news actually, they sort of found out who their audience was and that if they really leaned into one sort of, um,

path of like one, one side of the spectrum, they actually made a lot more money. And so, you know, that, and that allows them to put on a better broadcast. What was the story? It was like the left leaning media was already gobbled up. So they just, they took everyone else. Right. So it was like the, the right. It wasn't, it wasn't that it was that they actively picked a side to be on because you would win that side guaranteed. And having the whole other spectrum, which is the left, hate you, it in a way benefits you. They're not going to watch, but they're going to talk about it.

It kind of riles people up. Yeah, you're like the enemy, right? But it's like all publicity is good publicity, right? And in marketing, which I have a, you know, like a technical background in, you know, if you, everyone can't be your audience, everyone can't be your customer. So if you pick a good, I mean, 50% of our country believe, you know, it leans that direction, right? You either lean one way or another,

typically there's obviously those people in the middle, but you gotta, you know, pick an audience when you are a brand, and Fox News picked a brand with really loyal customers, and you know, I mean, kudos to them. Like it's a huge network. It's running strong. Genius move. Yeah.

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888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. Please play responsibly. 21 plus. Physically present in Connecticut, Michigan, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, only void in Ontario. Eligibility and other restrictions apply. One offer per new casino customer. Casino credits are non-withdrawable and expire in 168 hours. Terms at casino.draftkings.com slash get 50 ends October 6th, 2024. Again, it comes back to the just how dangerous the biases get. Right. Yeah. Just how dangerous the biases get right? Yeah, I wanted to discuss a little bit like Kat said so she's currently pregnant Okay, and She had to quit

ADHD meds, I don't know which one she was taking whether it was Adderall or whatever the different ones are Also nicotine. She was a Zen lady and Yeah, I'm currently in my own zin withdrawals it sucks yeah and but yeah she had to quit because pregnant you know you don't want to be doing that they don't know what's going on it's amphetamines and like taking Adderall on things it it's like, that's a, like you get very addicted to the feeling and taking it.

It's a huge part of- Have you ever taken them? I have, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I had a prescription for, when I was in college and I was in my late 20s, I had a prescription for maybe like two years, I think. And you know, other than being offered them after talking to my doctor about like my concentration and this, it was like in that era where they were just giving it to everybody.

And they just said, Oh, have you considered this? Well, of course, as soon as I took it, I was like, I feel so much better. This is an amazing medication. Well, no, it's just that everyone fucking loves that stuff. It feels good when you take it, yeah. Right. And yeah, I think when I got off it,

I did a cold turkey thing too. I just got sick of it. I was like, what am I doing with this? Like I should just learn the habits for studying, not to say that people don't definitely have ADHD. Of course they do. I just don't believe that mine was really like that. And I was using it as an excuse for whatever.

But the withdrawals were serious. They were really irritating, you know? And like there was some mood swing stuff in there. I mean, it was, there was a lot going on. Yeah. And it's, you know, it's a lot, but it sounds like to her, she's missing the nicotine patches more than the ADHD meds,

which is quite interesting, though I also understand that. It's like, it's a really fun nootropic. Like, it picks you up, it gets you focused. You know, I mean, in a sense, it's like, I would say it's better than a cup of coffee. In terms of- It's an interesting conversation for me to to have I don't use nicotine nor do I drink coffee So I think I'm like, um, what do they call like a unicorn?

I'm like one of those adults that doesn't use either of those but I did have an you know, a ADHD medication prescription. I tried most of them in my 20s You know was always told I had ADHD, but never went through the process to get diagnosed and get the prescription. Got to college, failed all my classes. They were like, take this little pill. It did. I lost a lot of weight.

Got you sitting still. But actually, no. I think I didn't have a true ADHD. I think I just like had a disinterest in some of the academic elements of, you know, going to university and things like that. Right. Um, because they put me on a, well, they overdosed me 100%. Like I was a small person and they gave me probably three times what they should

have given me. I think that doctor actually lost his license because he was like overprescribing. But yeah, I tried to go back like the year, you know, they give you a shout out to that guy slinging the amphetamines. I lost like 35 pounds in a month. Like, yeah, it was crazy.

I lost so much weight. I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep. 30, no way. A hundred percent. I lost 35 pounds in, it was maybe 40 days. That is so fast. Between when I saw my parents and then- What, were you only eating Adderall?

Basically, so I was taking- Gotta eat food too. 60 milligrams of Vyvanse every day and 30 milligrams of Adderall every day. And then he gave me 10, up to to he gave me 25 milligrams and told me I could take up to two of them a day for studying. Holy shit. So I was taking that because I was like this is gonna help me pass my classes there's a lot of pressure on me right I was also a college athlete and I so I was working

out five to seven times a week plus taking courses that were active so I was literally just burning so many calories. My heart rate was high all the time. I would have to go to the gym. I went to the gym after my practice. I was a cheerleader. Went after that and would run on the treadmill for two hours so I could go to sleep.

Well, basically so I could lay in bed. I never slept. I barely slept and I didn't eat for about 40 days. And then... I never slept I barely slept and I didn't eat for about 40 days and then and you didn't Go any point think that something might be horribly wrong. Did you just felt? I was like I felt amazing. I was doing better in school. I wasn't hungry I wasn't you know, like I was doing better in all my like sport all my cheerleading things like You know, I gained like the freshman 25

as soon as I got to school, to college. And so I was like, this is great. I'm gonna lose it all, whatever. But I was so sick, whatever. So, you know, I did have that experience and then for the rest of my 20s, essentially, like I sort of fluctuated taking a more regular dose. Oh.

But- That's so wild though, because I mean, it just had no effect even close to that on me. Yeah, everyone's different. Like I remember not being like super hungry sometimes, you know, because it just... But it was like, I still ate meals. Still ate, I still went to sleep. I still... I could eat like Skittles sometimes, I could drink muscle milk like chocolate muscle milk.

So I was basically only that was all I was consuming. Yeah, I don't think you should take it. Maybe I had pizza a couple times in that like 40 days. Like my mom was like, she's like, when was the last time you ate? You know, like, did you go to the food zoo today? Like the cafeteria? I'm like, no, I haven't been in like three days. She's like, well, let me order you a pizza.

I'm like, OK, fine. I take a few bites, put it in the fridge and eat it over a couple of like, but yeah, it was bad. And so I imagine there's other people out there, probably some people listening who have had similar experiences and understand the powerfulness behind those medications and why they should really be taking a lot more seriously. Yeah. Well, they should have a type of coaching that comes with getting on it. Like when they gave it to me, he just said, this can help you study. I'd heard other kids in college took it.

You know, I was a bit older, so I was just like, I don't think that I, you know, it was just, I think easier for him to give it to me because I was like in my late 20s. So he's like, oh, this isn't an 18 year old just wanting to get Adderall yeah but it was there was no education with it no there was nothing like this is also math and you will struggle to get off it and once we get you on it you just want it all the time well it's interesting is she says that she thinks it made her better on stage. And, um, I don't know.

I mean, I could totally see that. Yeah. Well, because look, there's a couple of things with standup comedy for one is, uh, and I think that's what she's talking about, right? Yeah. Or just performing in general. I mean, being an entertainer, it takes a lot of confidence. Yeah.

But I mean, if I'm just doing a public speaking or on a debate thing where I'm just like talking in front of other people or a podcast, for example, Adderall could be great for that for sure. Even having a few beers can be great for that too. I mean, people get drunk on podcasts all the time. Lower the inhibitions, right? Yeah, and it's just like the, you know, chilled bar talk conversation. However, with stand-up comedy, generally comedians do not like to drink that much. It throws, it like changes the timing weirdly, and it just makes everything's off. And

it's almost like the audience can pick up on the fact, fact, excuse me, that you're kind of not nervous, you know, but not in a natural way, like you've earned it. You're just in a like kind of drunk way. And Adderall does that too, in a different way, not giving you necessarily more confidence, but it will change your timing of things. It almost makes you, it kind of crushes your emotions a little bit. You just like, if you take a lot of the Adderall, you just kind of like numb to things.

Yeah, I was going to say it's a numbing ness, especially if you get to a certain dosage or you're taking more than you really need to get like, you know, when you have ADHD and you struggle through things like schooling or your day-to-day work in life and taking care of your home or taking care of your family, having something that takes the edge off is one thing, but if you take it too far, it sort of puts you in this altered state of euphoria to some extent, where it's like, oh, nothing really touches me. Everything's fine. I move so fast. And all I can think about is what's next. And so, you know, when you have a script in front of you or you know what you're

supposed to say, uh, perhaps that really does help. I'd be curious how it would affect someone in like an improv situation versus like something that was scripted or like with cue cards or like when you, when you're like something that was scripted or like with cue cards or you know, like when you're a comment. I mean, it probably helps with improv because there's, there's a lot of comedy and just like hyperactive. How to stop losses work on Kraken? Let's say I have a birthday party on Wednesday night, but an important meeting Thursday morning.

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Yeah. Pretty well. Um, but at the end of the day, a lot of people are on it, you know, I'm sure a lot of writers are on it. She's a writer, you know, a lot of writers back in the day used to kind of chain smoke all day because that's a great nicotine boost, but now we have patches and gum and, and all the different types of things that, patches and gum and all the different types of things that go with that. And, you know, it makes sense. Like, it's when I have work to do or when I need to sit down on my computer, I mean,

those little nicotine pouches, like the Zins or whatever, it's like, they are big business. A lot of people are taking them. Yeah. And I would love to know what it actually cost them to make a can of that. I wouldn't be surprised if it's like 30 cents. Probably very rare. Like the markup might be like 10 times at least. Yeah. 1000%. Yeah. It's absurd. There's nothing in it. Nicotine can't be an expensive compound to synthesize. I bet it isn't. No, I bet more of their costs come with taxes and having to like pay to be able to sell their products and things like that. No doubt. No doubt. Lastly, with Kat though, she did talk a little bit about the strange political

climate right now. Obviously we just had a second Trump assassination attempt. That's fucking absurd. Like, holy shit. I know there are a lot of people that really dislike that guy. But these are presidential candidates in America. Right. This, this is a strange, strange time. Unprecedented times that we're in. Multiple attempts. I mean, he really should be dead by now. Yeah. I honestly didn't really follow a lot of what happened with that. I'm, did you follow what happened with that guy?

He was a bit of a wacko. He'd put some armored plating up on the fence and he was kind of hit behind it. I guess the Secret Service or Homeland or whoever's there has people a few holes on the golf course ahead. So they're like two holes ahead or whatever, and they just kind of walk the perimeter. They look around, they try to figure out, you know, if anyone's about, and by the time the president gets to that one, they know they've kind of like secured the area. I guess while doing that, somebody saw,

one of the guys saw that he had a gun. They shot over at him. He kind of escaped, got in a truck and eventually somebody arrested him. Oh, they did. Yeah, they did arrest him and he wasn't anywhere like he didn't have a direct line shot to Trump as far as I know. I mean, I've looked at a couple of articles Barely anything so I don't know the whole story But the reason I didn't look into it all the way is one there already was an assassination attempt

So it's like slightly less shocking now like that would be way bigger news if it hadn't already happened I'm not saying it's normalizing, but it kind of is. That's fucking crazy. Well, yeah, I mean, it's like one person does it and like gets away with it to some extent, right? Like they're not shot and killed, you know, or they like had, they're so close. I mean, if you look at all the details of the first assassination attempt, it's like... Well, that guy died. They killed him, you know that? They did?

The, in the first one? Yeah. Yeah, he was on the roof. They killed him. You know that they did the in the first one. Yeah. Yeah. He was on the roof. They shut his ass. What world am I living in? I thought he was no, I didn't know that. Yeah, they didn't arrest him.

What was his name? Crook or something? Yeah, he's up on the roof. The the they wouldn't go up there. The snipe. Well, yeah, but the snipers were on another roof. Okay. And after he fired a few shots, got it.

Got it. They they blasted his ass All right. Well, maybe it's just a really unique way to off yourself Could be that yeah could be that And this this guy they arrested on the golf course. He's lost their minds. Yeah, he looked he looked nuts He has crazy eyes. That's for sure Yes, good the crazy eyes. So, you know, no surprise there. But it's very bizarre. I mean, she was quoted, I was reading one of Kat's Fox pieces and they

are good. Like she writes, it's fun. It's like really kind of casual writing in a sense, where she was just like, I can't wait to, uh, she's, you know, obviously just, she found out, I think she was pregnant when Trump, what was it, maybe got, uh, had the first assassination attempt. She heard the kids heartbeat at a different time. And maybe when Biden stepped down. And she was just talking about what an incredible like next wacky decade or like the previous one that she gets to educate her kid on. Like it is the wildest time to be alive.

And she was also saying how, you know, the last 10 years her mom, I guess, passed away. So she's gone and she's like, yeah, you know, the last 10 years, her mom, I guess, passed away. So she's gone and she's like, yeah, and look what she missed. Like, yeah, nobody could have guessed. You think about like the timeline of like advancements in technology or advancements in human development or like, you know, evolution. It's like some things are going really fast and some things are going really slow and backwards. Right. Like, you know, the the it's like some things are going really fast and some things are going really slow and backwards, right? Like, you know, the, the,

I feel like our decency and our understanding of a human, um, like, like compassion towards other humans is like going backwards, you know? And in her book, I'm looking at her Instagram right now and, uh, she, her new, um, our audio book, I Used to Like You Until, How Binary Thinking Divides Us. You know, that's, that truly sums up this like, political climate that we're in.

Like we're so divided. Oh yeah. That we are 100% not going to make progress in any way. The division is going to halt our, you know, progress in terms of like, you know, economy and, um, you know, advancements in technology and medicine and everything, because we're, I mean, maybe it was uncommon, but you would see it where a husband and wife would have different political views. It's fairly rare that people would have

different religious views, but that kind of happened too. But yeah, different political views was not that strange. Nowadays, I think it's real difficult. I don't think that there are many, like, openly, I'm a Trump supporter person in a couple that is married to someone that is not for it, because there's like a hate that comes with it. There's like even the idea that you would like

either party to the other. It's like offensive. Is like, there's something wrong with you. Like you're a bad person because you support this. Back to what we were talking about, you know, what she, about her, um, early, this earlier topic about, you know, making fun of things that are difficult. It's like, that's a hundred like that's 100% relevant. Like you, in this election,

there is so much funny shit to laugh at in how extreme some people are, how ridiculous some of the candidates and the actions that they take are. There was a Kill Tony that we, that you, you know, you showed me before that was about, you know, that had Trump and Biden on Adam Ray and Shane Gillis. And I mean, that was so funny and it wouldn't have been that funny if the

candidates weren't so polarized, right? Like that hat you have to make fun of the ridiculousness that is that comes with those candidates otherwise, like I mean they've been making fun of presidential candidates on SNL For a long time and some of those skits were good. Probably the best one was Alec Baldwin being Trump Yeah, it was just funny but now because of how these presidents, and we can call them presidents

because it was Trump and Biden, talk to each other, behave, and how Biden obviously is slipping into dementia, poor guy, it's like, yeah, also okay to some degree to make fun of it when you're the active president that's not stepping down, which he was not doing. So that's unfair to the country. It's also terrible that he's going through it, but don't gaslight a nation and pretend

that you're doing okay. So to get those two comedians to act that absurd, it almost wasn't that absurd. All they really had to do was match those two people's behaviors as closely as they can because it's already comical. It is already comical and it's entertainment. That's what we're looking for. That's all we're looking for. I mean, every time Adam Ray was just like staring in the space or pretending he was lost. It was exactly how Biden has been looking.

A thousand percent recommend that. Anyways, cat temp seems like a really, you know, breath of fresh air for Fox News and for that audience. And, you know, for anyone that's looking to sort of, you know, maybe, maybe see sort of both sides of the, of the arguments that are, that are in our world right now, in our political climate right now. She seems like a really great, you know, family woman. She seems very funny, very fresh. So, yeah. And I'll be interested to know if as soon as she gives birth, she immediately gets back on Zenz. I think that's what's going to happen. Yeah.

She's going to pop that baby out and then pop in 50 Zens and get buck wild. Every woman, every pregnant woman has that thing. They're like, as soon as that baby is out of me, I want- You wanted sushi, right? Sushi, just like a giant, I didn't get it for many weeks. I'm not sure why, but sushi and a bottle of champagne. That's what I wanted. It took me a few weeks to get there but yeah. Yeah it makes sense. It's you know it's a lot of work. There's a lot of work. Let's jump over to Robert Epstein. Robert's an interesting guy. He's been on before.

I remembered him immediately when he came on this time because of the story of his wife that was brutal. So what Robert does is he studies, he's like a statistician in a sense, where he just kind of analyzes Google and search results and see how they work, see what they're pointing to to kind of like gain their biases but really just understand what they're doing when they create their search results. So it's like an academic approach to understanding how these companies work and it is important because they have a ton of influence. It's like these days, you know, already chat GPT is massively influential. What it spits out,

what it tells you, I mean, it's probably going to take over Google eventually just for being used. Yeah. All they need is a better interface. Imagine if instead of your browser just opening up to Google, which mine does, you know, and then you just type something in, it just opens up to a chat interface. Like maybe like a head floating, just talking to you. What do you need to know? And you're just like, tell me all about this. What's going on here? Yeah.

And it just discusses whatever it wants. It's interesting you say that I'm I've not been like a I mean, you were an early adopter of chat GPT if I'm not mistaken. I mean, you kind of got in like right and you sort of had an account. You got like the first update. Well, yeah, when you had the update, yeah, you're you basically ask it anything and everything. I don't use it.

And but I'm also always like, can you ask chat this? Cause it just seems easier. That being said, I asked Google a lot of those questions. But it seems like Google might be a little bit more skewed in terms of the information that it puts out. So like, there might be certain topics that I'm asking it that I'm not getting the full picture, right? And that's what he's looking for. Yeah.

Like he's trying to figure out where their biases lie and is it legal? Like, for example, if you're the search result for everything, potentially you could you're basically persuading the user, you and I, everyone else. This episode is brought to you by I, everyone else. And a range of colors and finishes. Dyson On Track Headphones Remastered. Buy from DysonCanada.ca. With ANC on, performance may vary based on environmental conditions and usage,

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with affordable online therapy you can do from anywhere. Rediscover possibility with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com to learn more. That's betterH-E-L-P dot com. On what your sister, this Google is saying the answer is. Well, imagine how powerful that is. Yeah. You could change stock prices. You can have stocks being sold and not being sold. You could have markets crashing.

You can have people hating different countries just because you want to. Like potentially their power is like, literally if if somebody ran Google and had total control like a bunch of knobs and switches and There's one for Brazil and for whatever reason the owner of Google just wanted to be like, I mean, obviously it doesn't work like this But this is a hypothetical they just went Oh, I'm gonna turn the the dial on Brazil to where all the countries

now hate Brazil. And all it does is just feed negative articles about how dangerous Brazil is to all the other countries. And it just happens enough. Not necessarily if you're directly googling Brazil, but it just pops up. It just every now and again just hits or like maybe local newspapers are just like, oh, I keep seeing this on the internet. I'm gonna write a story about it. Is Brazil getting more dangerous? And you just wouldn't know because there literally is almost no other place

we get information from. Yeah, I'd be interested. I haven't looked too far into it, but like who regulates that? Like who regulates what? That's the point. There is almost regulates what the point there is? There is none and so if there is no regulation, it's like are they breaking rules? Probably not. Are they breaking, you know?

Are they they crossing lines in a morality sense? But if it's a company developed and owned and ran by people who believe in this platform as a way to influence individuals to their benefit. Is it illegal? Is it just morally wrong? Is it just frustrating? To what extent is there actually like, oh, we need to intervene? Or is it more about educating and saying, okay, well, this platform exists, you're welcome to use it. It's a free program, right? Um, but here's the,

here's the alternative that you can use that does other that considers the other. And I, and I think that's what Robert's goal is to be like, okay, let's say that Google is going to just run like this. I mean, for one, it's heavily left leaning, right? It's part of the, like the left leaning media bias that exists. It's like a lot of the stations lean left, you know, a lot of the newspapers do. And now the social media companies seem to do it. They're also a giant donor to the Democratic Party. So it's like, well, how is anything going to change? You know, it's

a Robert was talking about meeting with Ted Cruz and talk with him for hours and Ted was like, well, what do we do about this? And after he explained what's happening with these Google searches, how they are like pro Harris and Obama and Biden and definitely not Trump. It's like, you know, people have done research to see how many votes that could potentially pull. And it's significant. It's enough potentially to change an election. Right. And because they're also donating to the Dems, the Dems aren't going to put any restrictions and regulations on Google and the Republicans aren't really big on

putting regulations on corporations. Let me ask you this. How many, what percentage of people do you think are actually like in a position to be influenced by a Google search? Any old Google search, say, you know, who should I vote for, right? Or like, what are these people's platforms?

How many people actually don't already have a candidate that they lean towards heavily enough to where a little bit of information or any amount of information is going to sway them? And I ask this because we have friends personally, you and I both, that we didn't expect to lean a certain direction and in this more recent election have sort of pivoted and, and, and sort of changed their views.

I don't believe that came through Google searches. I think it came through like other sources of media. Uh, and so, well, yeah, actually specifically, I think we're talking about people moving from left to right. Correct? Yeah. I mean, do you, do you know many people that have moved from right to left? No, but I, you know, I don't know. I don't know any since COVID. I couldn't name one person that went from being a Republican to a liberal that I know of. And I know a bunch of people that have gone the other way.

So anyway, my point is the people that are going that way, left to right, and not being influenced by Google because Google's bias is left. Right. It just isn't. It doesn't work that way. But here's the thing. What you just said was that you don't know anyone that's actually been influenced. So what is the real like, is it a real issue?

Like if, you know, obviously we're just a small sample size, but is it actually that big of a concern or is it just frustrating? Like, is it actually a threat or is it just frustrating? I'm not taking a side on this, but I am saying that a bias like that, a political bias leaning one side for a party, when you are the information source of the planet, which Google basically is, that is an issue, there should be regulation

on it. Yeah. Because even if they're holding up, who knows, two or 3% of the vote through long time, carefully constructed manipulation and algorithm changes and just pushing a few of the right articles your way. Just enough for you to be like, maybe that was actually, that is a good point. What Harris said in this article. And I never looked at it this way. a good point what Harris said in this article and I never looked at it this way. It's like if you give enough little breadcrumbs out, you know, the birds are going to start pecking

around and they're going to eat that. And it's just part of how bias and propaganda works. And I don't think that it makes them any less a good search engine or whatever their job is, like as a company to not put that bias out there. Yeah. It's problematic. Like you shouldn't teach it in school either. No, they shouldn't be like Kamala Harris days at your high school. Things like that have happened and they shouldn't for a reason. The same as you shouldn't have a Trump day at your high school, things like that have happened and they shouldn't for a reason.

The same as you shouldn't have a Trump day at your high school. It's the same as you shouldn't say the 10 commandments at school. Right. Yeah. It's separation of church and state in that sense. It's like you've got to be very careful about where the influence is coming in. Listen, there's always going to be bias. You can buy a newspaper if you want to the problem, you know

And it's a left-leaning or right-leaning Periodical, you know it the same as watching Fox News or whatever, but here's the thing all of the online information Basically is coming through Google all these social media sites. We're all addicted to social media Of course we are. But again, those were created by individuals. They weren't created by the government.

They weren't created by institutions that have pledged to be unbiased, right? These were created by individuals. So I'm not saying it's not wrong or that it isn't frustrating. My question is just like, to what extent are they actually liable to be indifferent and to be, you know, to walk the neutral line? Yeah. Let's say it doesn't have that much impact. Is it not worth still researching them?

So we know how they work fully. We understand what their biases are and we can prove it, which is what Robert does. We understand what their biases are and we can prove it, which is what Robert does. And then also putting laws in place to make sure that they can't do that on a bigger scale. It's like, why do we always have to wait before it's like actually happening? Why do we have to actually let it change an election before we're like, holy shit, we should have put some rules in here. It's like, we can already identify those things. And again, I don't know if it is.

I'm a bit of a more of a believer of... Well, I shouldn't say a believer. I feel like there are times where the laws and the regulations, at least in America, have failed the general public, in my personal opinion. You know, there are certain things that, like, you know, we're required to do or that are an expectation of you that don't necessarily serve Everyone equally like public school like children are required to go to school and there's only one private You know our one public option and it's regulated very you know, very strictly

and You know in multiple facets, there's, there's failures there, right? So I just don't believe the government intervention is an illegal, like making laws over things is always the answer. I feel like education and private flexibility tends to allow people to have a little more flexibility. I agree. However, he's saying that Google monitors us over 200 times a day as individuals. They are. Did you use it? No, just all the time. Like if you even have a phone near you, it's just, it's constantly able

to look at like maybe your location because of maps, what stores you went to, maybe you hung out at a bar for a long time, like whether they're releasing this data or not, as soon as they get stronger and stronger AIs and other data collection, you know, processing things. It's like they're going to be able to write like really accurate kind of functional algorithm to who you are as a person and probably predict your behaviors based on that. It's like these two like to do this thing. And here's the thing.

It's like, okay, that's not really harming anyone. Maybe it's not changing your mind. And maybe ultimately it gives you more personalized shopping tips for shit that you actually want. It all sounds good, but it is a massive privacy violation. So we already know they're doing that. They take our data and they sell it. This is how they became one of the biggest companies in the world.

And now on top of that, they're potentially telling us who to vote for by adjusting how the search results come through. Like, that's too much power. But I do agree with that. Yeah, people need to step in and go, hey, this isn't good. And I'm not like, here's the problem with this argument argument too. It's like only people on the right and staunch independents will easily agree with this because it doesn't favor their party or their decision making. It's easy to be on the left and be like, oh, this is fine. It's not a big deal. because you're on the winning side. You have all the tanks on your side.

You're not going to want to ban tanks. It's like, it helps support the things that you want. But ultimately, if you believe in democracy, which is the fairness of it, right? It's like the impartiality that each vote counts, you know, both of these sides have a chance to do it. I mean, there's still a lot of factors, how much money they raise, who the candidates are, you name it. But when it comes to new sources and information, trying to make it as you know, it's like you don't make it the law for everyone to watch Fox. That would be really bad for the left. It would indoctrinate a lot of people to the right. That's not a law. There would never be a thing.

I feel like there's some... We live in our economy. It's a free market, in theory. And we're allowed to pick where we consume media, just like we're allowed to choose to use Google or not. You're allowed to tell your phone not to, you know, track your data and not tell, not, not keep track of those things. And so I feel like it's more of an education requirement on that end. Like, I don't know who maybe should be responsible for that, but perhaps it's more of like a kind of get ahead of it versus like let it affect you in that way.

Like there is gosh, like, you know, you know, like you just said, like you're not required to walk, watch Fox news. You're also not required to use Google. Yeah, but here's the thing. Fox news, if you don't watch it, if you don't turn it on, it has no power over your life at all. If you don't use Google,

they are still gaining information on you all the time. It's interesting. Like they're able to do it. Yeah. Now, they won't be able to get as much if you're not like Googling things directly, but you're still going places

Looking at stuff, you know online maybe you're on Amazon whatever like they Gather information always they just have an idea of how to do it even down to I don't know if somebody down to, I don't know if somebody connects with you on a social media app or, and they're like, oh, they're here with this place or you get tagged in something. It's like, oh, we know that she's there. This is that person, let's add that information.

This is that location. And what does that mean? Ultimately, they're just trying to sell you something. That's all they want to do. But, you know, I'm just saying they're in a different position than even the cable news networks, which also do have a lot of power and also need to be careful what and how they say things. It's just a concern because how far do we go? I think they should be able to say whatever they want. I just feel like as consumers

consuming that media... But they can't say whatever they want. That's not the type of freedom of speech. They can't lie about something. No, truth, right? But they can say whatever they want. And I feel like that has a lot to do with like. What's better than Tim's Rewards Points? Two times the Tim's Rewards Points. Use Scan and Pay on the Tim's app from now until September 30th to earn two times the points. Pay, Earn, and Redeem all with one scan. Only on the Tim's app. Canada only, limited time only,

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And hits like Dexter. You're decent and good. I'm not. Paramount+, your eyeballs, equals entertainment. Stream Paramount+, from $ 6.99 a month. The context of what is said has a lot to do with like, or it has a huge role in like the truth of it, right? Like, gosh, how do I say this?

But look at it this way. No, there's a lot that can be said and be directed either way directed in either way. Right? It can be good or against a topic or a belief. So factual information with the right context can really help, can sway an opinion about what that factual information is or about, you know, that, that concept very easily. And I think that's what is interesting and dynamic and exciting and,

and, and freeing about American media is that we have these free companies that you know, are able, these free market companies that are able to say and do basically whatever they want, it's up to the consumer to choose where they consume that media and how their information is shared back and forth with those companies. And if they prefer one way that information is put into context, then they can consume media through that and vice versa. So, I don't know. I mean... Well, here's an example of it, right? They were talking about Elizabeth Warren and how she is the only Democrat that said that we should split up Google.

It's getting too big and too powerful. Yeah. And while doing search data, Robert and his team noticed that there was an overwhelming amount of negative press towards her. So even though they have a left leaning bias, they are literally individually picking people out potentially that they don't like

to mess, skew their search results. And if over and over again, people are seeing Elizabeth Warren, something's wrong, she did this, she's bad, she's whatever, it changes, it potentially could change that narrative, right? And here's why it's really important, because even though it's working for a party that a lot of people like, like half the country likes the Democratic Party, so it's a benefit for them. They're probably like pro-Google because they're like, oh, fuck yeah, Google's on our side too, we're going to win this.

But what when it's not? What happens when another company, or Google changes their mind, and they're like, no, we're right leaning now, and we're gonna do the same thing? Then it's a real issue. I think he's doing great work for that. I applaud the work.

You know, the research, I think it's an important thing that someone identifies what is happening on the back end of these tech companies. I don't deny that there's some scheming shit happening, to be honest. So I just want to be clear, my argument against it, I'm maybe just playing the devil's advocate, like, I'm not for it. I'm not saying, oh, it's fine, just track everything I do and influence me. I don't believe that.

I just think that, you know, there's other elements at play that make it important for us to understand, like, what the whole picture is, and like, where all of the media is coming in you know in our lives and where that's how that's influencing us and Google is just one of them but the way that he talks it seems like Google maybe has more influence than we think and then many of these others do because of their their technological and I grasp they have that's the point that he's trying to

make and and you know just from talking to you, like you're saying, you don't use chat GPT, you don't use Google that much. So maybe you're not aware, like I am really not aware either, and I use Google all the time, how much data they're collecting on us. And I think that's the point he's trying to make. They collect a lot and they are influencing you in ways you can't imagine all the time.

And what makes them really good at doing it is that they can do it without you noticing. It's not like they're running up to you five times a day and asking for a survey that will be pretty fucking intrusive and you'd be like, Google, will you fuck off? But they don't. Yeah, they're not doing that. I mean, what I tell to fuck off is every time I try to log

into some new website and they're like, do you want to accept the cookies and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, fine, fine, fine. Makes me want to read into that a little bit more and be like. Probably owned by Google. Yeah, it's a cookie machine. Yeah, I mean, you know, as a parent of a young infant,

like there's a lot of things that are just about efficiency for me, and so I don't a lot of times think too deeply about what's happening in terms of those. But when it comes to like the greater scheme of like who I want to, you know, be in power in our, not in power, but how do I say this? Like to be the leader of our country and to be a role model for our, you know, for my children.

Like there's, there is something where it's like a little bit of due diligence on my part could go a long way in terms of them tracking me and my preferences and the things that I do. So I would just say for like those who are really concerned about it, like just start with yourself, like just just like with everyone that's like angry about anything in the world. It's like just start with like fixing things inside of yourself and fix, fix how they're tracking you. And

maybe that's the thing you can, you can like, well, I would say Google it, but that's kind of ironic. But you can go to ChatGPT and say, hey, chat, how do I stop basically every company trying to, and there are a lot of things you can turn off. Well, listen, they're still going to get a lot of your information. Your phone can't really be all the way. If you really wanted to be off grid with tracking, you couldn't have a smartphone. But there are ways to turn certain things off. And if that's important to you, at least learn about how it works.

I take no precautions. They're getting all the information from me all the time. But I still don't like the sound of it, right? Yeah. They're probably going to transcribe this podcast and realize that I'm a problem and then fuck up my phone or something. But you know, it's just the fact that it's still something even if I use it and take no precautions about it, I don't have to like it. I think that I can believe in a system that will be like, all right, we need to adjust some of these things.

Some of this shit that they're doing is not good. I'm not a big oversight guy. I also don't think the government should have massive oversight on everything, but they should have some. It exists for a reason. Like in a sense, they're here for our safety, right? That's why we have police. And they make sure that the roads work

and the bridges don't collapse on us. And we have a military to keep the freaking invaders away. It's like, this stuff is real. Well, now we have new enemies, potentially, new problems, new things that can fuck up society. And it's online stuff, potentially, scammers, like, you name it. Like, there's a lot of that going on.

And you know, I think that they should be able to step in and kind of tell a company what's up. The government's bigger than any company here. Like, sorry. Like, Elon is the richest man in the world. He has Tesla, SpaceX, the rest of it. The US government is way bigger of a company. Way more powerful and they have their own army. They can put Elon in jail.

Elon can't do anything to the president. Really? Apart from tweet and piss him off. I'm excited to see what he does next. It's going to be, it's going to be interesting. All right. Yeah. I, I like the Epstein Roberts podcast. Um, I like, I'd like to think that he gets back on.

He seems like the type of guest that we should have on once a year, just to kind of keep us up to date with like Then how quickly these companies are changing and also what do we need to know? Absolutely. Is there anything important? All right, that's it for us this week. Thank you so much and we'll talk to you guys later Keep safe out there