Joe Rogan Experience Review podcast - 404 Joe Rogan Experience Review of Calley Means & Casey Means, MD Et al.

Episode Date: October 17, 2024

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We find little nuggets, treasures, valuable pieces of gold in the Joe Rogan experience Podcast and pass them on to you perhaps expand a little bit We are not associated with Joe Rogan in any way think of us as the talking dead to Joe's walking dead You're listening to the Joe Rogan experience review What a bizarre thing we've created now with your host Adam Thorn Might either be the worst podcast or the best one of all time In two, one, go Enjoy the show Now with your host, Adam Thorn. This might be the worst podcast, but we're the best one of all time.

Two, one, go. Enjoy the show. I think a lot of people listening to us years ago, it's just like, this sounds conspiratorial. And it's just like, what actually happened? And there's a couple really important dates that happened, that are historical, that I think set this structure really intentionally. The first was 1909, the Flexner Report. So literally John D. Rockefeller's personal lawyer wrote the report for Congress that basically set the standard that's the standard today for medical education. And it literally says in the binding guidelines that holistic health and nutrition and anything

about interconnectives of the body is pseudoscience. It says we need to name the condition and cut it out or prescribe it. And what year is this? 1909. So they're still going by the recommendations of 1909. We still follow the Flexner report. Yeah, some policy, I mean, we get the policies, but like rescinding the Flexner report and having updated scientific education and standard of care guidelines based on what we've learned since 1909 about the majesty of the interconnectedness of our body

is a really good first start. Because we're binding under a law, just demonstrably, just like, again, not conspiratorial, John D. Rockefeller's personal lawyer wrote this report. Why? Because John D. Rockefeller is the father of the pharmaceutical industry and created pharmaceuticals from byproducts of oil production

and was the first investor into Johns Hopkins and other major medical schools, University of Chicago, and started the modern education program for health. There were some big issues in the health of the Wild West, but he created Johns Hopkins and the standard of residency training as a way to silo diseases very intentionally and then prescribe his products and interventions as the top pharmaceutical maker. There you go. Coming in hot, coming in hot from the Joe Rogan Experience Review. That was Casey Means and Kali Means podcast episode.

These two were fascinating. There was so much information in there. It's hard to kind of go through the clips and find what's important. Basically what he was saying there is how is modern medicine the way that it is? And you know, the Rockefellers got involved. It was money. They could see there was a lot of money to be made and they needed to control how medicine was done. And in all fairness, you know, it did create some systems that have really advanced medicine. But it came, it sounds like it came from a root idea that wasn't maybe necessarily with all good intentions.

Yeah, and this podcast in general was one of the most interesting of Joe Rogan that I've ever heard. I mean, my jaw was on the floor basically as they just dropped statistic after statistic and you know, and information after information, the bits that they said, it was like, if you want to, like if you want to get angry about what's going on in the health industry, like listen to this, you know, like it was angering to hear, and not that all of the information was new. Like there's, some of this has been,

you know, spoken about before on the podcast, but the way that they just so eloquently put it all together, was new. It was just so interesting. I couldn't look away or step away from it. And the information was coming out of these two is like there was coming out, it was like more coming out than they could say. Like they had more than they could speak and I didn't hear Joe basically at all.

Like he had very little, they had so much going on. Well, they had great rants. Yeah, they did. They would go off on a rant. They are obviously very passionate about what they're saying. And then they end it with what do you think of this? Always giving Joe the opportunity to kind of get in there. But really this was just a monologue between the two of them.

And it was fine. They were excellent. They had a lot to say. The fact that they kept that energy up the entire time. I think they could have spoke for like six hours. Oh my gosh. And I have to say that they're brave people. Anyone that stands up against the state of the medical profession today, you're under scrutiny.

I'm amazed that people are brave enough to do it after COVID because COVID shut down so many voices that were sure that they knew what they were talking about and they cared about medicine and they wanted to help people so they gave warnings and they were just basically thrown out of the medical world. It's nice to see people standing up against, you know, and they don't always have to be right as well. Like I like these dissenting voices that eventually found out to be wrong, but at least they're trying, at least they're brave enough to say, hey, I'm looking at this evidence and it doesn't make sense.

It's going to make you a target. I mean, some of the things they brought up, sodas are the most bought things on food stamps. Sodas. That's insane. It seems like, okay, the people that have the food stamps get to choose what they want, right? That's their freedom to choose this stuff. Right.

But they're obviously not getting good information if that's the primary thing that they want to buy. Well, let me put it this way. So there's, when you're on like a subsidized food programs, right? There's food stamps, EBT, they call it in most states. And then there's WIC, which is like women, infants, and children. And so personally, having a new baby, when I had my baby, they insisted that I got on this program. like the cost subsidy of it, but I was like, well, you know, food is so expensive. Everything's so expensive right now. Why not? Like, let's just see what it's about.

One, it's not easy to get on. There's like, I mean, it's not that it's not easy. It's not easy to maintain, right? And then it's like very complicated when you go to the store to use WIC, I would say. So like food stamps is different. So WIC is like, you know, they tell you exactly what you can buy. And as I'm like trying to navigate this and be like, how do I take advantage of this best? It's like extremely well, even in my opinion, just in my opinion, I guess it was pretty complicated. But the food that they offer you on it is just garbage. I mean, just juice, you know, bread, like whole, like

white whole wheat bread kind of thing. Like just all these processed foods that you when you're in the postpartum period or you're thinking of trying to feed it to your child, like, it's just not stuff that I would want to feed her. The only good thing about the WIC program was the produce that they give you and it's like $30 a month. We get you nowhere anymore, you know? And it's non-organic produce and so on.

Food stamps on the other hand is you can basically buy anything and it's up to the, I mean, basically like, each individual grocery store decides what you can have. But the fact that you can buy soda with food stamps, it's like, what is the, what is the purpose of this? Is it to help people eat better and healthfully like healthfully, or is it to like make them sicker because in, you know, some people need some more guidance when it comes to their nutrition and these state programs that help drive people to buy certain

foods or to help them buy foods. It's like, why is there no, there's no education when it comes to like food stamps, there's no anything. I think that's, that's the key takeaway, you know, in order to qualify each week. And, you know, I know people that are struggling are also often busy. Maybe they're, you know, they're strapped out just with the stress in their life. Yeah. It's harder to focus. It's harder to get organized.

Maybe they do have at least some jobs that are paying them very little and they still qualify for these things. So time is an issue and you may have kids and the rest of it. But if you had to do 30 minutes of sat down, just learning about nutrition, take a little quiz that's not difficult, but it does mean that you watch the video so you understand the difference between sugar and fruit or sugar and a soda, you know, that some fats are healthy and X, Y, and Z, right? I think that that could be really beneficial. Like it might not fix it overnight, but at least it's something.

Instead of just giving them cards and saying, here's your choices. And they're like, well, I've always loved soda. Yes, of course, everyone does. Like even people that don't drink it today, like I don't drink soda very rarely. Right. I had a sip of your Coke Zero yesterday. I might buy a Dr. Pepper on a road trip. Yeah. Like sometimes that's good. It actually doesn't mean I don't like sodas. Right. I just know how

freaking awful they are. I got in the habit of not drinking them. Right. It's golden. Right. But you could, you can just slip right back into it. Like they're very addictive. And I think ultimately like the food system in America, the Callie and Kasey, they talked a lot about that and how broken that is on top of the healthcare system and how they're basically like. This podcast is brought to you by DraftKings Casino. The days might be getting shorter, but the action on DraftKings Casino is here to

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Please play responsibly. 21 plus. Physically present in Connecticut, Michigan, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, West Virginia only. Void in Ontario. Eligibility and other restrictions apply. One offer per new casino customer. Casino credits are non-withdrawable and expire in 168 hours. Terms at casino.draftkings.com slash get 50 ends October 6th, 2024. In cahoots to like destroy our health and to not make us ultimately like healthy. It's you know, feed you make money off of you eating right and then fix each symptom that you have independently. And that sort of goes back to what Brigham Buehler was talking about last week. I believe it was like, you know, there's there's this very horizontal system like like if it was a vertical health care system in each provider and there, you know, there's this very horizontal system, like if it was a vertical healthcare system

in each provider and there were, you know, specialists work together and things like that to actually like find the root cause, it would all come back. It would all come back to nutrition, exercise, sleep, you know, stress reduction, like very normal things that we can all manage on our own.

And it doesn't require medication. It doesn't require a lifelong prescription. It doesn't require surgery. It doesn't require like severe medical intervention. It just comes back to education from the primary care of like, you know, educating people on these things. And that's where like our public school education system and in general, the health care system has failed Americans.

There's absolutely none of that. And there's no incentive to take care of those things. They mentioned on the I think it was Cali said, you know, in their both of them, you know, in their nine years of medical school, never once were they told they could write a prescription for diet and exercise. They only were taught and told they could write prescriptions for like medications.

I didn't know that they could do that. Yeah, like they can write a prescription, MD can write a prescription for exercise and you can use like tax deductible allocated funds like your HSA for a gym membership. So when you go on Amazon or you know you go to certain stores and there's like the little HSA eligible that means your HSA funds can be used to purchase it. It's typically vitamin, sometimes it's like supplement foods, it's like low fat or low calorie things, sugar-free stuff like

could you use your insurance too? I mean, it is a prescription. You just pay your copay and then go get the most expensive gym membership you can find. Well, every insurance plan is different. So probably some of the higher, the term has lost me. Insurance plans.

Yeah, like when you pay like your premium, the higher premium ones potentially include a gym membership. They also typically include a gym membership. They also typically include a nutritionist. That's a lot of people don't know that, that your insurance plan actually, like you pay for like six visits with the nutritionist a year.

They just don't make it easy for you to do that because they don't make money off of you going to the nutritionist. They make money off of you going to the pharmacy, getting a prescription and then being paid by the pharmacy, 80% of what you pay them for that prescription. So it's, it's absolutely fuck, excuse my French, but like it's so messed up that it's this like revolving door of, you know, problems and solutions, but the real solution is like 10 steps back.

Yeah. I mean, it makes sense that you're frustrated that I can hear it in your voice. It's like, this is incredibly frustrating to hear that we're all under this system. Right. Right? And this is how it works. These people are speaking out against it. And it's like, then you also see how much work there is to do.

Then you hear stats like autoimmune disease going up 13% per year. That's a credit card debt. That's like the APR on a credit card. Pretty good credit card these days, but still not good. You don't want a 13% loan. You wouldn't want a mortgage that high. And that's the increase in autoimmune, which is where human beings immune systems are in a sense,

I don't know if the word is attacking your system, but they're just overworking. They're overreacting to something. We hear about like everyone these days has eczema. Everyone has like, everyone has this autoimmune disease that made them, you know, makes their life more difficult. Or they're allergic to everything. Everything. Peanuts, gluten, sunshine. And it's like there is a root cause of that.

It's not just we're evolving to be more, have more autoimmune diseases. Like, no, it's the, the, what's going in is a producing poor output for us as humans, like, especially in America. What about 25% of women on SSRIs? That seems like a lot. It seems like a lot, but I would say if I had to think about one in four gals that I know, yeah, they're on it. I mean, it's so easy.

You know, it's the same thing. Like as soon as you- Does it help? I mean, potentially, I think, and they talked about this in the short term, potentially, there are those people that like, it can really set them up for success when they're in a really bad spot. Right. And, but I don't think that's, I mean, that's not the ultimate solution. And it's not a good long-term solution. Right. The long-term solution is the same thing we're

talking about over and over exercise, nutrition, sunlight, sleep, you know, stress reduction. It is kind of wild though that depression is at a measured highest level ever. Not to say it really is. I'm sure plenty of times in the past, all of the people were depressed because there was the plague or something really sucked. But now people are getting diagnosed and the numbers, they count them. This is like the highest point. It's also the safest time to ever live. Yeah. Well, Casey went on this, I want to call it a rant because it was a very educational spiel that she went on about... Oh, rants are good, they're not negative. Rant. Yeah, rant. About why young women are starting puberty and getting their periods so early, why we feel the need to regulate their hormones with birth control, why, you know,

men are feeling like they're less masculine and it's basically like we're in this like cesspool of estrogen and it starts with nutrition and then it comes down to, you know, what like like general nutrition and sugars in our food and how sugar turns into estrogen essentially in our food and how sugar turns into estrogen, essentially in our system, in our digestive system, in our metabolic system. And then talking about how we have the best regimes in our food, you know, just in general and then like, you know,

less exercise creates more estrogen in your body. So all of these things sort of combine to as a population make us like have more estrogen and the estrogen makes you depressed. Like it's like the worst thing when when you have a menstrual cycle when your estrogen is the highest it's when you feel the worst. It's when you're sad. It's when you eat the most. It's when you bloated. It's when you're like, you know, just like not in a good spot.

And you know, women experience this normally regularly, you know, once they're menstruating once a month, and yet we're basically elevating it to a point where they're experiencing it all the time. Right. Well, like they were saying, you know, they weren't taught anything about the benefits of sunlight or sleep and nutrition, which to me sounds like if you get those things down in a healthy routine, you probably will do better regulating your hormones and your estrogen levels than any medication that they're going to give you. Yeah.

Yeah. You know? I mean, and that's like, so when women end up in a place or, you know, what's the 25% of women aren't SSRIs, like I can see that because they're in this elevated estrogen state all the time. They're always feeling like the world is like on their shoulders. They're feeling just their high stress, sleeping poorly, they can't focus at work, all of these things.

And so, you know, giving them this, it's like this short term fix. And then the problem is, is that they're on it long term. They also talked about how birth control was the first pill developed for long term use. Like it was the only pill to be stayed on for a long period of time. And they started giving it to women and basically saw it as like a cash cow. It was like, wow, we can prescribe this one time. We can convince this woman to take it once she can be on it forever. She can be on it forever. Yeah, the forever medication is really like the greatest financial decision they could have ever made.

And so then I think from there... And the byproduct is almost every medication that has ever been made and taken for a long period of time causes a whole bunch of its own side effects. You know, like it would be. For example, if you're a vitamin company, even if the vitamins aren't that good, if you're on it forever, that's a benefit. Right. That's a benefit to your life. And if insurance companies paid for that, it would be like, that's a benefit. Everyone should get their little pot of different vitamins.

And if you don't take them, you don't need to, but you're on it. But instead they're like, take this medication for your blood pressure or your heart or whatever it is, your skin disease. Yeah, diabetes, yeah. It's terrible. And then, you know, they talked about

how the standard of care is not to, like when someone has diabetes, it's not to cure their diabetes. It's to put them on a strict, regular, like medication regimen. And so when they get like scored, like from like the, I can't tell you what in what like, you know governing body but when they basically have to report they have 200 patients with diabetes and they're

They're not like they're not scored on how many of those patients they help cure their type 2 diabetes, right? Like type 1 diabetes different type 2 diabetes type two diabetes, right? Like type one diabetes, different. Type two diabetes, type three diabetes, it's not, their goal is not to reverse it. Their goal is to properly and effectively medicate that person. And if they can report that they're on a consistent like regimen of medications for that, then they get scored high.

And they get reimbursed more. Hey, I got half of these people on a really solid keto diet. Yeah. So they have no sugars in their system. You know, their glycogen levels are never spiking, you know, their insulin is, it's all working and we've been able to reverse this process and they're far healthier. You know, it's just so much of this band-aid mentality for a shitload of money. And then these pharmaceutical companies are praised in the sense of like, oh Pfizer's

here to save us. And it's like, hold on. Like what an amazing trick though, that these companies like the Sackler family and the opioid crisis, like they're seen as the places that make medicine. They're the pharmaceutical, they're the science, they're the brains, they're here to help you. When really it's just, we're making a shitload of money, we're trying not to get sued,

we're making sure we have immunity from being sued. And oh yeah, a lot of people died. It's so hard, this podcast is hard to listen to, but it's also like you can't turn it off because, again, I could just go with example after example It's so hard this this podcast is hard to listen to but it's also like you can't turn it off because you know You know there's again I could just go with example after example of things that they said but Cal a Casey said, you know, she was a surgeon and she put her scalpel down to walk to it She said that sort of multiple times in different ways

like it was so moving for her to realize that you know, there's this saying in Surgeons that you you eat what you kill and so the more surgeries you complete, the more money you make. And she realized that that like, even though there was a non-surgical option to like fix something like a small type of cancer or, you know, potential cancerous, you know, something like that. They're they're encouraged to do the surgery, to do invasive surgery and then put someone on like, you know, hospitalization essentially and to like go through this whole to make them in their hospital money because it costs more money to do a surgery and people will pay more money to do a surgery than to just like be prescribed diet and exercise or like a new nutrition plan. Right. And so it's, she just said like she wants, she realized that she was like, this is what's broken and

I'm walking away from being a surgeon. I wonder how many other doctors are this disillusioned because one thing is they have a lot of student debt, which they want to pay off. They've worked really hard. So now they want to keep that prestige. They want to be seen by their colleagues as being good at their job, especially the people they work for, which the hospitals, and that's just like a board of directors and people that want to make a ton of money for the hospital. You know, and on top of that, they want to play their part in the system of medicine and be helpful.

But let's say that you do C-sections, cesareans in hospitals, you're that surgeon. And all these women are coming in and it's like, where's the fine line between you being like very honest and being like you don't really need this and this will limit your ability to have more kids in the future. Yeah. You know after a point and it is more dangerous than just a regular vaginal birth. Yet if you're known in that hospital as being that surgeon that's constantly talking people out of this surgery, even though it's the best, most ethical medical advice you could give to the woman and the child and just in general, it could be seen as like that's the way we don't want you doing that. We need you leaning a little. Your numbers are down this month. What's going on?

Yeah. And those pressures start to build. Yeah, there's a book, I think it's called The Birth, The Business of Birth or something like that. And it talks about how that's essentially it, that the hospitals, cranking people in and out to deliver them, they make the most money in the shortest amount of time with C-sections.

And you know- Oh, it's your scheduled birth. Your scheduled, there's no- No guesswork. No guesswork. You know, even me, like I went in to having my child knowing that I did not want to be medicated. I did not want pain medications.

I wanted to do it naturally. I wanted, you know, and then we went seven, eight days past my due day. It was my first child. So I was like, I want to see this baby, like get me in, and they basically, I want you to hit 40 weeks or like consider this, decide what day you wanna be scheduled and we'll induce you.

Well, the induction as me and many of the women that I know have had an induction went terribly, labor for 36 hours. So that's over 24 hours already that I'm in the hospital. They don't want that they want you in delivering that baby and they want you out and within 48 hours and So when you go in for a scheduled c-section, they make that happen It's just in their control and like but that's the thing about birth is it's not

Predictable always and that you can't rush it. Some people have a baby in an hour Some people it takes them two or three days and how do I... It does feel like even though they're working hard and not to slam where we went, I think that the people there did a great job. But what it seemed like to me is that they were good at pretending they had a lot of patience, but really behind those eyes, they wanted to get going. Have you ever been into a store or like had a salesperson working with you that's like, hey, take your time, do what you need.

But you can tell in their mind they're like, sign the fucking document, buy the sweater, get the thing, we need to get moving. And there was a lot of that pressure for sure. Yeah. And I think that it just is a reflection of, again, reiterating the broken healthcare system that we're working with. And I feel for those people who maybe don't have as much support going into it.

I was able to, the people that were there with me, be like, don't let this happen. It ultimately happened, but it was like, don't let them just do It ultimately happened because, but it was like, don't let them just do it without me approving it. Right? Like an epidural. Like I was like, I don't want that. I don't want that. And then almost instantly I was like, give it to me.

Cause the induction made me like crawl up a wall in pain. Like I was like, someone knocked me out. I'm so in so much pain. And it was cause this artificial induction of labor. And yeah, I mean, it's, it's sad that women are experiencing that. It's sad that women aren't able to like take control of their health, you know, in their own healthcare

in that way. And the healthcare system is sort of like directing it, but you know, same thing with birth control. It's like there are less like- And that's not even the worst example, like a lot less babies and mothers die today than ever before. Like it's an incredible system.

Like that used to be the biggest issue for people was like mothers dying during labor or just lots of babies dying. So yeah, huge improvements. Is it perfect? No. Is it the biggest issue? I don't think it's as bad as... That being said, America is not at the top of the,

it's like 13th in infant mortalities. You would think we'd be super low in having, you'd think all these other second world countries would be, no, we actually have more infant and mother mortality rate, higher infant and mother mortality rate than some countries. And you'd be really surprised. I'd have to look at a chart to tell you, but it's shocking. Even if we're at 13, it's a lot better than it used to be.

Yeah. Like, yeah, should America be number one? But I mean, when it comes to healthcare, I think for the elites, if you have plenty of money and really good insurance, sure. But it still doesn't get away from the fact that, you know, the way the system is set up, it leads to chronic disease diagnosis, you know, this increase in to keep people on pills. And then on top of that, we've got like mass synthetic chemicals in our foods. Yeah. Right. Which it just so hard to avoid unless you were literally just shopping at the

produce section and then going to a good butcher but there's a lot of time that that takes and a lot of extra money. I mean I don't want to give away all the all the bits of gold in this podcast I think I think it's worth a listen to for everyone I think you know I had all these people going through my head my family you know my friends that I wanted people going through my head, my family, you know, my friends that I wanted to send this to and be like, listen to this. Like if you are confused as to why you don't feel well, this is why, you know, it's because the healthcare system

has failed us and here's how you sort of, this is like a kickstart to like getting angry about it and taking it in your own hands. But you know, one thing that really shocked me that we heard was that medical error is the third biggest killer of people of all, of all causes of death. And we, we tried to talk about this, like, how do you rate all causes of death on a chart together?

Right? Like how do you do like, you know, chronic disease, motor vehicle accidents, you know, in terms of like context and make it like a consistent, like control all the variables, right? To say like, this is actually like the biggest killer, you know, one, two, three, four, five. But the idea that medical error could cause so many deaths that it's like up there and that like the third, you know, in that category, like the third biggest, it's like absolutely so frustrating and just like infuriating. Frustrating is not even the right word.

Like absolutely infuriating. Well, they conveniently leave it off a lot of those metrics. They feel like it falls in a different category. And they're just like, well, you know, these people came to us sick. We were doing our best. Right, right, right, right. You know? Yeah.

But, you know, and then even like Tylenol, like what was this, what was it like so many people die from Tylenol over? Taking the right, correct prescribed amount per year. Yeah. I can't remember what the number is. I think it was high though, it was like 12,000. Yeah, 12 or 13,000 maybe. It was a lot.

Crazy, so yeah, highly recommend listening to this podcast from beginning to end, and you know, there's nothing you won't regret it. I mean, I can't, I want to listen to it again, honestly, if it wasn't three hours long. Well, actually, it wasn't that long. It was only two and a half, wasn't it? I think so.

But yeah, those two care about health or you want to learn more about it? Yeah, these two, they have a book, they have a company called TrueMed enables tax free or you want to learn more about it? And then they focus on media and advocacy about the broken incentives of the health care system Informed by their early career as a consultant for the pharmaceutical and food industries Such a great I mean, you're very very good. Very very good. And oh just an update. It's not 12,000 It's 500 deaths per year. That's taking I don't know what dosage but 56,000 emergency department visits, 2,600 hospitalizations. But my point there is that's a medication that shouldn't affect you too much and is over the counter. And, you know,

Oh, I don't think we can get off this podcast without talking about, you know, RFK and his sort of enthusiasm behind this movement. Yeah, his push to kind of redefine what health is, what nutrition is, you know, take a really good, hopefully unbiased and unpaid for approach to the food pyramid and, um, you know, I think that for the United States, that would be an incredible direction. Look, if Harris gets in that direction is not being taken. No, they're not going to do anything about it. They won't even say anything about health or nutrition or how people should eat.

Even though they are representing most of the people on EBT buying those sodas. Yeah. They don't do anything to help them. And Trump is saying, hey, I want to work with RFK. I want to give him this platform to fix things. 100%. My only concern is that it's not necessarily something Trump is like, like, pioneer or like, you know, like, championed as like something that he's like, so, um, pioneer or like, you know, like, uh, championed as like something that he's like, so, so passionate about. He's like, I will take other people's like enthusiasm forward with this.

So like, he started bringing people in. No, it's the RFK is doing this. So he's, you know, how, how much does he trust him and wants those votes? Right. And it's like, let's do it. And I'm not saying I, all I'm saying is saying is that I just, I'm so curious to see, you know, whoever makes it in office, whoever gets there, what they actually do,

whether they take this serious or not, you know, whether they've said, I mean, there's a lot of things people say in a political campaign that they don't actually act on, right? 100%. And you, and that is important. You do need to look at the system that after they've had a few years and see like what went well,

what isn't working well and who are they trying to blame it on? Because that's also something that is like, there's so much blame now. It's like the Biden administration, basically everything that's going wrong for them, that just tried to blame on Trump. Right. Four years ago. Right. And it's like, what kind of game is that? How do you prove that you're actually good at something? Yeah.

Like if a CEO takes over from another CEO of a company, they don't have long to turn things around the same as a coach on a football team, they don't have long. You don't even get the whole season to turn it around. It's always your fault. Yeah. You inherit this problem. Right. The reason you got hired is to fix it. So fix it. If you don't, don't be trying to blame the last coach. And lastly, I think it's so interesting. We've seen a lot about, Trump made a comment, who was it that he said that he would be down to go on Joe Rogan?

Who I guess was it? I don't know, these two little nerds. Oh yeah, but anyways, they said, you gotta go on Joe Rogan. And he's like, oh yeah, I'll do it. I'm gonna do it. So we'll see. I think we're in.

I think they're gonna do it. And then I saw that the Harris campaign is in talks of going on Joe Rogan too. So we'll see. We'll see if... There's fucking zero chance it's gonna happen. If that happens... Why do you say that?

Because what they're gonna do, they have to control everything. It'd be like when they did the debate. Supposedly she got all the questions. Supposedly. She's gonna talk about what she can, like, we can talk about this, we can't talk about that, because that's how all media works. But Rogan doesn't work like that.

Okay, yeah, that's what I'm saying. It'd be super interesting. They're not gonna allow it. If she makes it on there, if he and she both makes it on there. It'd be brave as hell if she goes on for three hours and Joe can just go in any direction. I can't imagine they would talk for three hours.

I think both of them, even Trump would say an hour. You get an hour. An hour's not long enough. He won't do it for an hour. He's not doing an hour podcast. You don't think he would talk to these? No, because it's not enough time. Joe has to hold that. Honestly, I'll be disappointed in him if he agrees to it just for an hour,

because that means that he's willing to just, just like make an exception against the most important rule on his, his whole theory, which is three hours is what it takes to get to the bottom of what someone is thinking. And it kind of is true. There's like an hour of warmup before you really get anywhere. They're just like a bunch of speeches and talking points. Yes, it will be interesting, but you don't get to who the person really is.

And unless you're into two and three hours of conversation Trust me. I've been doing this a long time and reviewing these. You're usually right about like 50% of things So I'll give you okay. Yeah, this is in the 50% category Regardless I'm super excited to see if that happens both of them I want to hear both of their sides, sort of like unscripted. You know? Well, look, let's save this for when they actually go on there.

Yeah, yeah. But I agree. It's pretty exciting. Talking about what policies and things can actually happen and what people do when they get into power. We've got Michael Schellenberger next. Michael's great. He's been on a bunch of times.

I think he's an excellent journalist. Was very left until basically COVID stuff and free speech was getting kind of attacked. I wanna start with a little clip of him just describing the party that he kind of moved away from. So let's jump into that. But it's kind of like, you know, back in the nineties, we were anti-war, pro-free speech, and pro-gay rights.

Now the left is pro-censorship, pro-war, and engaged in horrible medical mistreatment of gay children in the name of trans medicine. So it's like, literally, who changed here? My values did stay the same, at least on those things. But anyway, I mean, I sat across from him and I just said, you know, everybody says that you're gonna turn Brazil into Cuba. He does love Fidel Castro, but he said absolutely not. He does. They're like bros. No, they're bros. I mean...

Alright, so, you know, he works into the Twitter files Brazil and talking with the leadership down there and kind of the censorship that's been happening But he brings up an interesting point that I think many people feel I certainly do About what it is to be left and be Democrat. I mean I have been my entire life came over from England to the US is basically a Socialist, you know, or even Green Party. Yeah, I would say vegetarian, animal loving, save the whale, save the wet, be a hippie.

I mean, I was 13 and a lot of these rules came from my dad, which, you know, you just follow your dad's shit until you figure out what you want to believe. But yeah, stayed as a Democrat, like all through the 90s into 2000s. And there were elements of the Republican parties that I understood. Second Amendment things started to resonate with me as I understood, you know, second amendment things started to resonate with me as I got into hunting and and you know, I just liked the fact that America still had this thing that most of the developed world was Banning and getting rid of and I was like, I wonder if there is a balance here. Like can we be trusted to it? Does it empower the people? I have to watch other countries and how they

react and like how well they're able to oppress their people. And can that happen in the US? It turns out that Americans can be oppressed real quick. COVID was like that. Guns did not help us. But yeah, it does seem like the party has moved for me, you know? And I think, I think what it is, is we can get more progressive over time. And that's what the left does. So maybe there's this element of like, well, I just wasn't progressive enough to keep up with these changes that they've made as they've got more progressive. Or, or it's that the people that go along with these things

are just waiting for their party to educate them on what they should believe. Yeah. Right? So if that is the case, it's like the woke stuff starts to happen. And then it's like, no, this is why it's so important. And if you watch enough CNN or liberal media, we're slowly indoctrinate

you into these ideas. Whereas some other people that are like, hey, hey, we're about free speech. This other stuff doesn't seem to match anything that we've been doing. Where are you guys going? And the whole party just leaves. It's like you're in no man land for a while. And unless you can go with an RFK, who else are you gonna go with? And I think fundamentally things like the first amendment is very important to people, people that really understand it.

Because a lot of times when I'm discussing that with people that are still very much on the left and they are kind of making some excuses about how there should be certain censorship, and you know, that we've got to be careful about what really free speech is anyway, and hate speech is a big problem. Most of that narrative is not coming from them. I know these people. I've discussed things with them for a long time. Yeah. It's coming from that training that, you know, the left media gives them, because

these are little talking points. It's clever. And then I'm like, hey, these are problems. Like we all have agreed in the past, like this was never even up for debate 10 years ago, right? That freedom of speech should go away in any degree. There should be no censorship when it comes to like what happens on social media or when it comes towards political party stuff. I mean, we just had the Twitter files. That's why Elon bought Twitter because the FBI was stopping social media companies from giving away certain pieces

of information that would have negatively impacted the left. That's a crazy thing. And now something similar is happening down in Brazil. And because the leadership down there is more powerful in terms of how much censorship and control they have, they've banned him. They banned Twitter down there. Yeah, I mean, one thing and then I think we'll get back to Schellenberger, but I was you were talking, I'm like, hmm, you know, I was thinking about. A few, a few weeks ago, months ago, we were driving together and we saw a sign. It was like vote blue, no matter what. You know,

Harris Walls. I think there was like a Buttigieg, someone else, you know, sign in this yard and it was down in Texas. So, you know, definitely, you know, I mean, it was in Dallas. So it was more of a blue county, but red state kind of thing. But the idea of voting for the party, no matter what, you know, five years ago, I would have said, heck yeah, you got to the party no matter what, five years ago I would have said, heck yeah, you gotta vote blue no matter what. You gotta do this. But when you're looking at how the parties are actually shifting so drastically

what they're standing for, and it made me question, is there a quiz out there that I can take that says I believe in this, this, this, this, this, and it tells me which party currently active, which candidate that's currently active is advocating for those things. Not what is being talked about, not what is, you know, um, historically happened, but what is currently being promised by these parties and is the current like.

You know, agenda item for them. And there is, there's multiple quizzes out there. And so when we're done here, I'm going to get on and I'm going to take these like, you know, agenda item for them. And there is, there's multiple quizzes out there. And so when we're done here, I'm going to get on and I'm going to take these quizzes and I mean, I have an idea of what it's going to say, but you just never know. And, you know, definitely, you know, having a party that's in the middle because everything is shifting so much, like perhaps there is this like sort of anchor in the middle of a green party, but you know, RFK was the only, was it RFK that was pulling at 20%? And like that was like the most any green or you know, independent party has ever pulled.

And so, you know, it's unlikely. But perhaps if there was something like that, where it was like when you went to vote, like what if you did this, you went to vote and you took a quiz and you said I believe in this, this, this, this, this, not I believe in this candidate or this candidate. That actually would be amazing. Wouldn't that be? If there was like a personality quiz that you took and then it just from the end of it is like, oh, you are 75% Republican, 25% Democrat value. So that's how we break your vote up.

And they just break it up that way. It would be so interesting, wouldn't it? Yeah. Impossible to do. Impossible. I mean, maybe not. A cool thought experiment because often people are going up and like you say, oh, I'm a red guy.

Just red, red, red, red. I've always voted red. I'm a blue guy. Blue, blue, blue, blue. And you don't even know. Like I could never imagine tick in a box for a name I didn't even know. I'm not saying I need to have heavily researched the individual, but like voting for someone you have no idea what it is just because you're assuming that they will have the values that it that to me seems wild

And I still understand why people do it because they feel so strongly But me personally it like I can't Imagine having somebody represent me that I have no idea who they are. Yeah, you know, it's almost a local government Babysitting your kids. Yeah. But even local government, I mean, you know, you have, when you vote for city council and you vote for state, blah, blah, blah, I couldn't even tell you what all the things when you get that state ballot and it's like 20 pages long and you go through and you're like,

okay, well there's one candidate. I guess I'll just vote for that person. It's like, you don't have to. And just because there's an R or a D after their name doesn't mean you have to vote for that person either. But a lot of us have busy lives, we have families, we have careers, we have other interests taking care of ourselves, blah, blah, blah,

that don't allow us to allocate enough time to research 40 to 60 different sort of political candidates every single year or every two to five years that we have to vote for and to understand their policies in full. And so I think it's an important concept of like one, how do we simplify that? Maybe it is some type of digital online quiz that just like that, when you vote for a city government, instead of voting for a candidate, you vote for a policy and you vote for like, I believe this should happen and I believe this should happen. And if a candidate is advocating for X, Y, and Z, and it aligns with so many, you know.

But see, all of this is hard enough to do. Yeah. And this is why it's so important that people like Schellenberg are out there that are examining the Twitter files, Brazil and in the U.S. and pointing out where censorship has been created by people in the government because if you're not at least getting all the information you can't even make a choice. Right. Right. They hid it from you before you even... so let's say you want to be the most informed. You still only have the

information that you can get a hold of. If it's being hidden by the FBI through social media companies or this Brazilian guy, you know, through censorship, then even with your best version of being informed, you can't make an informed choice fully. So this is why censorship is so bad. This is why the First Amendment is so important. And the things that come with it that people don't like, like maybe extra more hate speech or the potential for misinformation, you know, that kind of thing.

It's like, this is part and parcel. We got to work through it. It's a messy system, but at least we have the information. work through it. It's a messy system, but at least we have the information. You seem to be bored of this. Do I ramble on about this? You said something, I'm like, that was the most British thing you've ever said. Oh. Part and parcel or something. Well, there we go.

I just, I lost all drain of thought. He also kind of spins back around to other systems that we have in place that we follow. Like a lot of the conversation came up around COVID, what was happening, who the science was, Fauci is science, that sort of thing. And then he gives the example of how even these leading institutions that are supposed to be here setting standards for health and wellness and safety for us, are doing it often based on no science. For example, the American Association of Pediatrics, he was saying recommended babies sleep on their stomachs. So this led to SIDS, the sudden infant death syndrome. Is that what it is? Yes. And again, peanut allergies.

Some kids had peanut allergies, so they just suggested no. No peanuts. Kids get peanuts. And then those allergies went through the roof. Right. Again, these things weren't based on studies, testing, science. They were just thrown out there as like, that seems like a quick fix and we're the professional So you should listen to us and now there's major problems

Now you could say were they doing their best maybe but you know now they're pushing medicine for transgenders Again, what kind of science is this or is this some sort of like social? ethical Decision-making that now is medicine? It's scary stuff. I think it goes back to like, you know, their narrative

and like them pushing their narrative of like, how do they want people to live their lives more than anything versus like, what is the correct statistically like safest and best way to go about it? Like, you know, when it comes, I mean, now when you talk about like, babies sleeping on their stomachs and children, those standards are different now. Now they say back is best. You have to put your baby on their back, wake them up,

roll them over if they rolled to their stomach, like all of these things. Yeah, because it took time and testing and then we saw that it was bad. Right. So like now I do think that at least in that case, you know, I mean, and it makes sense. Of course you want a baby on their back. You want their mouth exposed. But, you know, I've also heard a lot about how SIDS, you know, is grouped together. You know, if a baby dies under a certain age and they don't have any like real like evidence as to why they just say it sits like, but it includes suffocation. It includes, you know, um, like just like, even if there isn't signs of suffocation, like if a baby just like suddenly dies, they just group it together as SIDS.

But it's like, there can be other things, right? Like off-gassing of chemicals on your baby's mattress and in their crib, you know, something that they were exposed to earlier in the day that made their overwhelmed their system or caused kidney failure. But surely they do an autopsy. They would know like if toxicology report, they wouldn't count that as SIDS. That's what I'm saying is as far as I've heard, they like, they just sort of group it all

together. Like they don't say like this baby died of kidney failure or of like, you know, whatever they just say it's SIDS. Something caused this baby to die suddenly. And it, you know, cause otherwise they would just say, you know, suff, they just say it's SIDS. Something caused this baby to die suddenly. And it, you know, cause otherwise they would just say, you know, suffocation, right? Like suffocation is suffocation. And that's what sleeping on their stomachs tended to do.

But it also could be, you know, lack of circulation to their brain. Like they could have a stroke because their head was turned too far to the left, you know, or something like that. Like there's a lot of reasons why. They're very fragile at that age. They're so fragile. And so, you know, that something like that. Like there's a lot of reasons why they're so fragile.

And so, you know, that's a scary thought that like, they're not even investigating enough or publishing enough information about like what exactly killed this baby. It was just, that's why these parents, you know, now like being pressured to get these cameras and these, and who can afford that? Most Americans and most of the rest of the world can't afford that. Yeah. I think my baby sleeps in like a thousand dollars worth of gear every night. You know, it's like a cyborg.

Yeah. It takes like 20 minutes to get it all going and to make sure it's all correct. And I just sleep in all night. We've had no issues at all. There's been nothing. Nothing. The only. We've had no issues at all. There's been nothing. None. Nothing.

The only issues we've had is like, if false alarms. False alarms. And that's like, makes, keeps me up at night. Is wondering, are we going to have a false alarm? Is a false alarm not a false alarm? You know, or is the alarm false or is it not? And like, that keeps me up more than anything.

Well, yeah, let's, let's jump over to some of the last couple of items that Schellenberger was discussing with Joe. I was surprised that they had such a different outlook on drugs. I thought Schellenberger would be quite a lot more liberal with his ideas on legalizing drugs and drugs, but he did not seem to think so. He felt like the more access there is to drugs, the more legal drugs there are, the more dangerous it will be because there will be more addictions. And that is entirely possible.

You know, I don't know, Portugal's quite a good example because they decriminalized drugs like in 2001. Yeah. And they've done well with their system. However, Portland, not as good. They've had to turn back on some of those ideas. But Portland's a whole other animal. True.

Different type of people too. But these are all, but these are just examples of areas that have tried it and has it been an overwhelming success in all areas? No. Yeah. So, you know, I was just still surprised. Yeah. I'm not saying I'm picking a side, but like, but I'm probably more on Joe's angle. Like I would, I would like more testing. Naturally. Well, I would just like more countries to, it makes sense to me. Yeah. It's logical. I would say that this, if all the conversations I've had Joe have with someone, was like the

most, there was like the most tension about this topic. Like it was like, I don't want to say it was like heated, but it was like them disagreeing. And I just don't feel like that typically happens. So it was both refreshing and also kind of hard to listen to. Like when you hear people bickering about something or disagreeing, it's like harder to tune into that, right? And kind of stay engaged. I like it too, because I don't like it.

Like guests like Michael, obviously their relationship with Joe and getting on this podcast is a big deal for their finances, their access to people, their credibility in general, it just is. So there probably is this energy to like, I don't wanna dare I say kiss Joe's ass, but like be polite, you know?

And I like that he feels close enough to Joe to be like, well on this thing, I just don't know. And I don't necessarily believe, like he's honest. That's an integrity that Joe probably really appreciates because I'm sure a ton of guests kiss his ass in the same way, to be fair, that Joe does it with usually very famous rock stars. Like if Mick Jagger went on, Joe would be in such awe

that Mick could talk nonsense forever and Joe would not interrupt him or disagree. And there's like a respect element there. The last thing they kind of went over was the UAP stuff. Michael doesn't really have too big of an opinion on this. He doesn't really believe that anything is here or that we have mastered anti-grav and all those possibilities. Joe is more on the side of like, yeah, we did it.

We built these ships. Aliens have probably come in, that kind of thing. But, Schellenberger did have some video that he took last year of some odd things that he saw. And it's pretty decent footage actually, which is kind of interesting. This topic is so interesting to me because I see these videos and I'm like,

at first I'm like, oh my gosh, it's a freaking alien. And then I'm like, no, there's no way. It's a projector, it's a drone, it's something else. It's something that we're just like misunderstanding, right? But then you hear other accounts, you hear people like exposing certain things on government property. Like you have all of them. I mean, there's been so many guests that talk about all this stuff, right?

But I my mind still it still warps my mind every time they get brought up. I just I can't wrap my head around what I truly believe and And it wears me out a little bit, gotta be honest. I'm like, sometimes I'm like, I gotta walk away from this and not think about it because it's so overwhelming. It's like there's fear, there's anxiety over it. There's, you know, just the fear of the unknown, right? And so I'm like, gosh, I just, I want to feel confident one way or another.

Like I wanna be sure, like, oh, they do have it and I wanna expose it. Or I want to be like 100% nope, I'm not that concerned about it, you know, whatever, but I'm so in the middle and it absolutely stresses me out. Yeah, it's, it's going to take something else to be kind of fully there. I mean, I, I feel like I've made enough of my mind up. It's almost like when somebody talks to me about string theory. I don't know anything about what string theory is. What is string theory? It's like a physics theory about how the universe

is created based on 11 dimensions and the mathematics of how everything is connected. Yeah, my head already hurts. Well, they use that to do, you know, quantum physics calculations and all the rest of it. I couldn't even begin to believe, like understand what it is, but I believe it exists enough of the scientists that understand it, talk about it. And I'm just like, okay, there's this thing.

It may not be perfect, but it is there. The same thing with UFOs. I haven't seen it. I haven't, there isn't been enough evidence in the way of like one video the where I'm like But you add it all together how many sightings how many people are saying things? Government reports that are redacted people coming in that have worked to the Pentagon talking to Rogan Bob Lazar You know fighter pilots discussing things that they're seeing there there is something there. For sure it exists, this isn't just wacky anymore. And you do notice that when you talk to people about it.

Because back in the day, it would just be people that love watching the X-Files or like wacky shows. And then you're just like, oh, you're just a conspiracy weirdo. Serious people are discussing it now. And even smart people that wouldn't ordinarily believe in fringe ideas, are like, oh yeah, that's probably something, for sure. Yeah, it's interesting you talk about,

like, it made me think of, you know, the idea of, like, basically, if you believe in something, you can find evidence to support it, right? Like, if, like, there's people out there that, and I don't want to say these people are 100% wrong, I just want to say there's people out there that believe the world is round and there's people that believe the earth is flat. Right. And those people are wrong. I do believe that I do believe they're wrong. But I'm just saying they will find evidence. You and I haven't taken any measurements though.

We have never made it up to space to look at it for ourselves. And so, you know, there's people that will find evidence to back their opinion no matter what. And, you know, at some point they, the world did believe, you know, that America was the center of the world, you know, of the globe and that like, you know, the earth was flat, like a map and you know, all of this stuff. But we think it was England, England was the center. That's right. But like we over time have proved that to be wrong. And so I think it's hard sometimes when people take such a hard-sided opinion about it,

rather just being curious about it, being like, no, this is happening. It's like, well, there's evidence, but it's not proven. And at what point do you prove something, just like gravity and evolution and all these other theories that we have. It's like, we don't actually have it. We don't have like proof.

We don't have a creator that said, no, I know this is a bit different. The theory of evolution will continue to have to be re-examined always, right? Because it's a theory about how things mutate and change. We don't know exactly how that happens or why it does or if there's been enough time. Like it really is a theory, right? The same as string theory. There's now M theory, I believe, membrane theory. It's like one level above.

Those things can evolve and change. But what we're talking about here is UFOs, aliens, UAPs. That's like saying we've discovered the giraffe. As soon as we discover it in the wild, we take a picture of it and we take one to a zoo, we know that they exist. It's not a theory anymore, it's real. Yeah. That's what we're missing with the UAP stuff. But I also feel like when we discover it's like this information is free to anyone, or not free, but like open and available to anyone to investigate on their own and

to say, Oh, this is the difference between a giraffe and an elephant. This is the difference between, you know, this is what makes the giraffe unique and how they evolved and what are their, what their close to. So like, we know that they're their own unique species and you know, I'm just going with that example, but like the information about, you know, extraterrestrials and UAPs, like that's not openly available to the public. And so that's his part of the problem.s, like that's not openly available to the public. And so that's- Well, here's part of the problem.

We're assuming it's not. They haven't even said that they have the information. We're having to assume that they have stuff that they're not giving us. When we have people that come from the Pentagon that are like, oh, the US government has like high definition footage and film of these crafts, but we don't release them. Right. But like is there multifaceted like investigations done into like, how does this differ from our technology?

Is it a hundred percent sure that it's not technology made by a human? Is there evidence of biology or life on this? Of course the military would be looking at that. What do you think they just like get cool pictures and they're like, well, that's cool. We won't spend a lot of time trying to figure this out. Maybe. I don't know. I mean, you would think that if they had more solid data and evidence that was justifiable in some way that they would put more out there. But then again... But why? What's their incentive to tell us anything?

Like if the government is actually good at anything, I think it is keeping secrets. They always- They like to tell us what to do all the other times in our lives. Yeah, trying to control us and keeping secrets. I think most of everything else they do is inefficient and not that great.

I mean, you know, if NASA is the best example of all the experience of getting people to space and SpaceX comes along and in just a few years is way better at it, it's like private industry and companies can run things more effectively. However, keeping secrets is like, they have all the ability to do it. Well, that's my question is,

how is it possible that the US government has this information but some private company doesn't? On UFOs? Yeah. Well, listen, Elon probably has some fricking footage too. Wouldn't he tell us though? No, he'd probably lose his security clearance.

He'd probably lose. You think he has security clearance? Of course, he has ballistic missile technology at his finger pit. That's what those rockets are. He launches the largest rockets ever made into space. They could be filled with anything. He himself, as one individual, could shoot those rockets into every capital in the world if he had enough of them. That's a serious, serious bit of power.

Your boyfriend, Elon. He doesn't have nukes on the end of them. But I mean he could pack them with whatever. He probably wouldn't even need a nuke. All I gotta say is that I don't know that I'll 100% believe that there is life out there beyond humans until I'm abducted and I see it for myself up close and personal. I don't know that I could believe it otherwise. Okay. But fair enough. That's a reasonable choice. I hope you get abducted. I hope I do too. I hope I'm like 90 and it happens. I don't have to live

my whole life in fear. It's the last thing that happens. All right. Well, thanks a lot for listening to everybody and hearing us yammering on. And yeah, good week of podcast. Go check out the doctors. They were fantastic. Learn some things, be healthy, stay safe. Take care of yourselves, everyone. We love you. Talk to you next week.

Cheers.