Joy, a Podcast. Hosted by Craig Ferguson - John Henson

Episode Date: May 7, 2024

Please Meet Craig’s long time friend John Henson, an American comedian, actor, and talk show host. He was the co-host of ABC's Wipeout with John Anderson. Sit back and listen to two friends in an engaging conversation, catching up and bringing jokes and joy to you today, enJOY! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Want to know how to leverage culture to build a successful business? Then Butternomics is the podcast for you. I'm your host, Brandon Butler, founder and CEO of Butter ATL. And on Butternomics, we go deep with today's most influential entrepreneurs, innovators, and business leaders to peel back the layers on how they use culture as a driving force in their business. Butternomics will give you what you need to take your game to the next level. Listen to Butternomics on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

For 10 years, I've been obsessed with one of the most bizarre and audacious cons in rock and roll history. We were all facing 20 years and all that good stuff. The lead singer tried to pull off an English accent, and they went on the road as the zombies. These guys are not going to get away with it. Zombies are too popular. Listen to the true story of the fake zombies on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life in marriage.

I just filed for divorce. Whoa. I said the words that I've said like in my head for like 16 years. Wild. that I've said like in my head for like 16 years. Wild. Listen to Misspelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Craig Ferguson Fancy Rascal Stand-Up Tour continues throughout 2024. For a full list of dates and tickets, go to thecraigfergusonshow.com slash tour.

See you out there. thecraigfergusonshow.comhow.com My name is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast is Joy. I talk to interesting people about what brings them happiness. Please welcome today my friend for a very long time. He's nothing to do with the Muppets, but he's still very good. John Hanson. This is a rare thing, an afternoon coffee for me.

Is that bad? We'll find out. Are you health crazed? You look really well right now. No, it's more of a function of needing to update your prescription all right no this is honestly i nothing could be farther from the truth in terms of health i you know i get up insanely early yeah but that's that's because you're crazy that's not a deal with food exactly that's just i've known you for a long time i mean you're you're up you're you're like a deer that's going through the forest.

And then I imagine you sleep like a deer sleeps. Like just it's quiet for a little bit and then, oh, fuck, and then run. I always say like I sleep the way your computer sleeps. Like the screen is dark, but you press any key and it's right there. Lights right on. But, you know, it's as if my body thinks I'm a farmer. And so I haven't used an alarm clock in fucking 10 years. I noticed as I get older.

You know as old as me. But as I get older, sleep gets harder to... It's an elusive mistress. Well, it's weird, man. Because when I was young, I could sleep forever. But now what I can do, and I'm very happy about it, I've entered my cat years. Oh, you nap.

I nap. I can nap pretty much like if I needed to nap now. I'd nap. See, I'm an abject failure at napping, but it doesn't stop me from trying all the time. If I can get just 10 minutes of gray zone, I'm good. That's meditation, isn't it? Yeah. Well, in that case, I am fucking Gandhi.

Do you meditate? I do. I do. I think, you know, it's funny. I still, words like meditate, like I think of it as just like framing my mindset, stilling my mind. I think that's what it is. Yeah. Right.

I mean, I'm no expert. I'm no David Lynch. But I'm always, I still have the knee-jerk fear that when you use the word meditate in conversation, people arch an eyebrow. I know. And you say like still my mind and people go, well, that sounds very practical. Yeah. But I sleep like a rock.

I just sleep like a rock for like four and a half hours. I think that's okay. Yeah. But I sleep like a rock. I just sleep like a rock for like four and a half hours. I think that's okay. Yeah. I think that the thing to do is not beat yourself up. I mean, I've just ankled to it. Yeah.

The way I cope with that is I get up at about 4, 4.30. Yeah. And I drink just enough coffee to bring me to the brink of a seizure. And then when I start feeling the jaw lock up, I switch over to water. Is there a time, and we'll go on to you in a minute and your life and all those important things, but can you see a time?

Because I know, like me, you don't drink, you don't do drugs, right? You haven't for a long time, nine or five. But I don't know how easy it would be for me to say goodbye to coffee. Coffee and Nicorette. No, nicotine I'm done. I'm done a long time ago with nicotine. Those are the two. I'm like, you will pry those from my cold, dead hands.

I'm not saying goodbye to those yet. Well, you said yet, though, which is good. Right. Because I would have a hard time with coffee. I could probably do it. But I think, well, why? Why? Because coffee isn't bad for you, is it?

I mean, everything in moderation, right? Like I drink. Moderation, I can't get to that. I drink probably, this is, for me, a sign of progress. This is down for me. I drink seven or a sign of progress. This is down for me. I drink seven or eight cups of coffee. Okay. I think I got to the root of your sleep problem. You fucking idiot. And if you saw, if I were to lay out on a table, the amount of Nicorette gum I

chew, you would immediately be like, we're taking you right to Cedars. Wow. Really? Yeah. I didn't know you took Nicorette. I mean, I knew you didn't smoke, but when did you stop smoking? A long time ago. That's what I was going to say. Cause I took Nicorette for about a year after I stopped smoking, but that's, I didn't even, I didn't start until well after I stopped smoking. I just tried it one day. Cause I didn't want to smoke a cigarette. And I was like, this is my brand of scotch right here. You know, I had a scope done on my upper endoscopy scope done earlier this year. I remember that. Right.

So they were giving me the propofol before they put me out. Sweet. My God. So just as we're getting i'm talking to the anesthesiologist i'm in the room and he goes okay you're gonna feel a little uh you're gonna feel a little woozy for a few seconds and then it'll be night night i was like okay and then he said okay i'm letting the stuff go in now and i was like oh my god that's so good i tried i tried so hard to stay. You live in that spot between 10 and 9? Oh, my God.

It was so crazy good. I actually watch the bag. Like, when they bring it in, I watch. That, to me, is the drive to the dealer's house. Yeah. You know what I mean? Where it's like, it's all in front of me. Yeah, here it is.

It's just sweet anticipation, you know? But here's the thing, though, man. Like, we're talking about a couple of old druggies, but here's the thing. Kids now, or anyone now, not just kids, but people who take drugs now, that fentanyl shit is out there. It's just like, it's a bomb.

It just goes right off. And they say this all the time, is like, it's in everything now. It's in the heart. It's in, it's in it's like you know everything is laced with fentanyl and i'm thankful because our kids are about the same age yeah my youngest is about the same age as you right i mean my was a little so mine mine just turned 13 and i said you know he's seventh grade and i thought all right he's entering the phase where people are going to begin to experiment. And I said to him, like, do you know anybody who's like vaped or tried pot or cigarettes or drank?

And it was as if I had said to him, do you know anybody that uses intravenous drugs? Like he looked at me and he goes, no. Good. And I go, really? And I go, do you ever smell it at school? And he goes, oh, yeah, all the time. Every time I enter the men's room. Oh, God.

Well, that's tricky. But it feels like the pendulum swings back and forth. It does. And I feel like this younger generation, at least where I am and this pocket of kids that my son hangs with is very sort of innocent. I think so. I mean, I hope so. I mean, Liam's about the same age as your boy, and he's only turned 13 a couple of months ago.

And he seems very cognizant of what a bad idea is. But maybe, you know, I'm his dad. He's talking to me, and i don't know what he's saying to his buddies you know all it takes is like one kid in your class with a peanut allergy and all of a sudden marijuana seems like playing with plutonium like no man we can't even do skippy yeah i know i know it's uh it's a little tricky but you know what i'm glad that I passed through the drug sniper alley before they loaded up with fentanyl. That's terrifying. Yeah.

That is just terrifying. Otherwise, there'd be two other people sitting in the seats going, you remember Craig Ferguson? Yeah, I remember him. Yeah. That was weird. I thought he was going to get sober. Yeah. But he didn't.

He's a really good guy. I had no idea. Yeah. Well, neither does he. Yeah, because it's one and done, yeah that's the thing you can't just like oh i better clean up my act you're you're fucked yeah one yeah it's march madness single elimination oh my god yeah it's crazy good sport analogy thank you all right thank you so listen you know that you are one of the few people i know in show business who actually has is qualified to be in

show business do you know that what do you mean well because you you have a degree I'm not good at anything else no no no that that's what that's everybody else I know that's me but you are like you've got a degree in acting uh well and I I studied acting quite a bit. You watched a couple of movies? I did not finish college. As I say... You are regular show business. I always say I went to college the same way Charlie Sheen went to rehab. We were both physically there for a period of time. I don't know that any of us took a lot away from the experience.

And I've said that joke to Charlie, so I don't feel bad. No, no, no. I think it's fine. No, I think you're right. I don't know about Charlie. Is Charlie so weird? I don't know. He's got to be.

I haven't heard anything. You're right. Yeah, with that tiger blood shit. You remember all that? Yeah. He's not exactly flying under the radar when he's using yeah usually you know there's goddesses yeah you know remember that tour he did and all that the two and a half man thing and everything i remember i did an episode of anger management once and um is that the one

after it yeah it was the one that he did on like fx oh yeah and they gave him like a hundred episode commitment which you know it was like an astronomical amount of money that they guaranteed on like FX. And they gave him like a hundred episode commitment, which, you know, it was like an astronomical amount of money that they guaranteed. And, uh, and so I had done the episode and gone back to my trailer and I was FaceTiming,

uh, my then wife. And, um, and while I was getting changed and saying, I'm all done, I'm getting ready to come home. And while we're talking, there's a knock on the trailer door and I open it.

And this guy goes, hey, Charlie wants to see you in his trailer. And I go, okay. And I close the door and she goes, don't go. Please don't. Don't. Did you go? Yeah, of course. Yeah.

And it was okay. It was the best part about it was we sat in his room me him and another guy and just shot the shit and laughed like there was no care in the world for 30 40 minutes he's smoking cigarettes and then eventually i had like a joke that got enough of a laugh where i was like i should leave yeah you know what i mean i go well listen man i gotta take off and he like drains the last of a marble red and goes yeah i should get back to set and i went they're waiting for you and he goes yeah and i go oh dude i i would have left like you know after five minutes if i had known that the whole crew and he goes i'm not gonna shoot anything

without me and just ambled out of the set. Jeez. I don't know how good it is for you to be like that, though. I mean, you know. Clearly not. Yeah, but it was delivered like a boss. Yeah, I believe it. It didn't feel like, oh, this is the one time I've done this. Put it that way. You did not have any compunction about it.

So you're not a qualified actor then? You're just a stand-up? I started acting when I was young. So I did a lot of... Were you in like Mary Poppins or something? Yeah. May or may not have done Godspell, which is, you know, that's a... Is that say a little prayer for you?

Say a little prayer for you? Is that Godspell? I don't think so. No? I don't know. What is that? The age of Aquarius. No, that's Jesus Christ Superstar.

I don't know, man. I can't... Honestly, I blocked it out. It was high school. Right. But no, I did... Did you get bullied in those? Did you have the classic bullying story in high school?

Because you don't strike me as someone who would get pushed around. No, I got... It was requested that I take my education elsewhere after my junior year of high school. Really? And, you know, you've got to really shit the bed to be asked to leave a public

high school. You know what I mean? That's not a... They don't keep real tight reins on you. Do you remember any particular incident that happened? There were a series of unexcused absences over a couple of years. I had a sales job that needed attending to during school hours.

Got it, Got it. And, um, and that, that was not a, that was not a well-kept secret. Um, and so I repeated my junior year of high school. I had to go to another school and do it again. Um, close the store in that school. I did. It was, I went to a smaller private school that was either for affluent kids who had been in private school their whole life, where kids that needed more structure in their environment. Ah, yes. And the sort of reclamation projects. Did you ever hear about those ones where people send their kids to schools in Utah and stuff like that?

Where you're in the fucking wilderness? Yeah, I don't know about that. No, that sounds... Scary. Yeah, that sounds like an episode of Dateline. You know what I mean? That sounds like, you know,

where cue the Keith Morrison like, but Danny never came home after that song. You know? The Craig Ferguson Fancy Rascal stand-up tour continues throughout the United States in 2024. For a full list of dates and tickets, go to thecraigfergusonshow.com slash tour. See you out there.

Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling, as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic, life in marriage. I don't think he knew how big it would be, how big the life I was given and live is. I think he was like, oh yeah, things come and go. But with me, it never came and went. Is she Donna Martin or a down-and-out divorcee? Is she living in Beverly Hills or a trailer park? In a town where the lines are blurred, Tori is finally going to clear the air in the podcast, Misspelling. When a woman has nothing to lose, she has everything to gain. I just filed for divorce. Whoa. I said the words that I've said like in my head for like 16 years.

Wild. Listen to Miss Spelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Angie Martinez. Check out my podcast where I talk to some of the biggest athletes, musicians, actors in the world. We go beyond the headlines and the soundbites to have real conversations about real life, death, love, and everything in between. This life right here, just finding myself, just just relaxation. It's not feeling stressed. It's not feeling pressed. This is what I'm most proud of. I'm proud of Mary because I've been through hell and some horrible things.

That feeling that I had of inadequacy is gone. You're going to die being you. So you've got to constantly work on who you are to make sure that the stars align correctly. Life ain't easy and it's getting harder and harder. So if you have a story to tell, if you've come through some trials, you need to share it because you're going to inspire someone. You're going to give somebody the motivation to not give up, to not quit.

Listen to Angie Martinez IRL on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, everyone. I am Lacey Lamar. And I'm Amber Ruffin, a better Lacey Lamar. Boo. Okay Amber Ruffin, a better Lacey Lamar.

Boo. Okay, everybody, we have exciting news to share. We're back with season two of the Amber and Lacey, Lacey and Amber show on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network. You thought you had fun last season? Well, you were right. And you should tune in today for new fun segments like Sister Court and listening to Lacey's steamy DMs. We've got new and exciting guests like Michael Beach. That's my husband. Daphne Spring,

Daniel Thrasher, Peppermint, Morgan J, and more. You got to watch us. No, you mean you have to listen to us. I mean, you can still watch us, but you got to listen. Like if you're watching us, you have to tell us. Like if you're out the window, you have to say, hey, I'm watching you outside of the window. Just you know what? Listen to the Amber and Lacey, Lacey and Amber show on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, so you became a stand-up then. Yeah, I dropped out of college to do stand-up. Right.

But stand-up, was stand-up like a thing for you? Like a lot of American stand-ups, I know. Everybody says Richard Pryor. Everybody goes, I was Richard Pryor, and that's what, you know, I wanted to do that. Like black guys, white guys, everybody is like, you know, black women, white women, everybody talks about Richard Pryor. So I was the youngest of five boys. I inherited a collection of comedy albums.

Ah, so Bob Newhart then. Bob Newhart, Richard Pryor, Redd Foxx, George Carlin. So I, you know, it was, I remember like, this all seems sort of dark, but I became so obsessed with it that I had one of those like turntables where if you closed it, it would just play until the end of the album and get up and start at the beginning again. And I would put on a comedy album and just close my eyes and listen to it over and over and over until I could like lip sync with it until I had memorized it. Like, I was obsessive about it. I used to sit up and, like, I remember when SNL started, and I would sit up and record it on an audio, like on a cassette recorder. A cassette player? And just listen to that shit. And then I was acting and training and stuff like that.

It sounds a little, like, I'm not a doctor. It sounds a little Spectrum-y. It was not, you know, not full-on rocking back and forth in front of the dryer, but it was close. Yeah, it sounds like you may be in there somewhere. Yeah, anyone ever look at that? A little OCD, a little uncomfortable with human interaction? Well, yeah, but you're an affectionate man.

I've known you for a while. I mean, look, I don't know enough about what the hell I'm talking about to know if that's a thing. I think it was more OCD. OCD. You know what I mean? It wasn't, that was my Rain Man box of matches on the ground where I could just look and, you know. But I would just, comedy was, I think being the youngest of five and being the youngest by seven years, I had to learn to defend myself verbally. Right. Because I couldn myself verbally. Right. Because I couldn't physically.

Yeah. What were you and your mom like? My mom was a first ballot Hall of Fame alcoholic. They sent her jersey to Cooperstown. Yeah. Second sports reference. Yeah. Pretty good one.

Thank you. I felt good about it. But yeah, so my parents divorced when I was 11. Okay. And my good about it. Yeah. But yeah, so, you know, my parents divorced when I was 11. Okay. And my mom cratered. Right. And I was living alone with her because all my brothers were in college and out of the house. Of course, yeah.

So it was like four or five years of... That's pretty traumatic, John. Dude, it was... I have realized since, you know, you kind of synthesize and naturalize what you've lived through, right? Like all of a sudden you've just sat with your own story for so long that it's not a big deal. Right. And I think recently I've had that experience where like I went back to therapy years ago and I, you know, that there's that first week or two where you're kind of just vomiting your story. Bringing them up to speed, as it were.

And I went through this era of living with my mom and the years that there was no hot food and no clean clothes and nobody getting up for school. And she just was a-functional. And I just watched the mask of horror come over my therapist's face. And she goes, you know, like, the state takes kids away for that. And that was a big thing, like, oh, my God, she's right. Like, in modern times, there would have been some sort of intervention. Where were you? It was Connecticut you were from, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so, oh, man. And then, so that, you know, that was quite a left turn. And then, you know, that exhibited itself in running with, you know, wanting to, having sort of a compulsive desire

to break rules. Well, yeah. I mean, look, if you get no structure and it doesn't sound like you had much, you start thinking it doesn't apply to you. I don't have to deal with structure. It was not a, man, I need to bang out this book report today because I don't want to do it at the last second on Sunday. It was more of a, hey, if I just don't go to school on Monday, no book report. Yeah.

You know? Oh, man. So when did you do your first stand-up then? How did you, like, were you- Freshman year of college. Really? That young? I take that back. Second, it was freshman year of college, I was in an, I started, I didn't start it, I was a founding member of an improv troupe at Boston University. Right. And then sophomore year, I did my first open mic night with another guy, a guy that I love

dearly that I went to college with. He's passed now, but he and I did a two-person thing at an open mic night. And I mean, it went terribly, but I was just fucking hooked. And he never did it again, and I just couldn't i couldn't i was i was obsessed with that yeah because i i remember doing stuff with guys early on none of them stayed at it i was like oh this is my thing yeah yeah and i just i i you know i think i'd only done 12 or 15 open mic nights when i was like i'm out of college i'm leaving after my sophomore year and i'm did you start earning money i went to new y, and I was, you know,

it was sort of a process of putting in the FaceTime, you know what I mean? And I had a couple of plugs. Because there's no social media then. You couldn't do your TikToks and get yourself going that way. No, it was just pledging the frat, you know, just being around. And there was a club, Boston Comedy Club, which is now, you know, people know,

and Boston Comedy Club in New York. around and there was a cup there was a club boston comedy club which is now you know people know and boston comedy club in new york yeah um and i i was i started working there and then over it took probably two or three years before i got passed in all the clubs and was able to cobble together enough of a of a living just on set pay to not have any other job. All right. Did you ever do the comic strip up on 2nd Avenue? That ended up becoming my home club. That ended up becoming Lucian Hold, who was the owner then. I know that. You know, that's my first gig in America.

Really? Yeah. When I was 21, I was living in New York City. I was working in construction in Harlem, and I had other activities downtown. I was 21. I was living in New York City. I was working in construction in Harlem. And I had other activities downtown. But I was interested in being a stand-up. And at the time, I don't know if this was the same time for you. I'm a bit older than you. But you used to go up there on a Monday morning and get a lottery ticket.

Yeah. And then Monday night was the open mic night. Right. But it was the following Monday. Right. So you went up on Monday morning. there'd be a bunch of kids outside waiting for their shot to get a lottery ticket. 10 people would get picked. And then if you got a lottery ticket, you went the following Monday to the open mic night. I went up there, I was up there to do it. And I'm standing there, my number didn't get picked, it was like 25 kids. And I'm standing there, my number didn't get picked. It was like 25 kids.

And I go to the bartender who's running the little raffle. And I said, what did I do? Because I'm not from around here and I don't know what to do with that. And he goes, where are you from? I said, Scotland. And he went, he gave me a ticket. And he went, you just come back next week. I got to fucking see this. And then Lucien Hold was really nice to me but he asked me back after the first open night

and then the second open mic I didn't do so well and then we failed our relationship didn't proceed beyond that point it's interesting I so I had a couple of years to kind of incubate at the Boston Comedy Club right getting a lot I did a lot of hosting so kind of incubate at the Boston Comedy Club. Right. I did a lot of hosting, so I got stage time. And, you know, you may remember this if you spent a lot of time in New York, but the role of the emcee was not as sort of ignored in New York as it is here. Like, it was a very important role.

It was your show. Right. And you got a lot more stage time and it was your job, like it was your obligation to your fellow comics to, you know, you need to warm them up and then you turn them over.

If somebody kills, you need to stay up there for a couple of seconds and give them time to simmer down. If somebody dies, you got to bring the crowd back to deliver a decent crowd.

So, if you were a good MC, people were like, all right, I trust that. Like, it's your show. You know what I mean? Did you do that? I did that at Boston Comedy Club for a couple of years. And then I ended up auditioning Mike Sweeney, who many years as the head writer for Conan, got me an audition at the comic strip. And I auditioned, and Lucien, you know, pulled me aside famously

long-winded, but I got, I love that man. And he said something I'll never forget. He goes, you are in the single largest cross-section in comedy. You are a straight middle of the road white guy. And that means it's going to be that much harder for you to break through because there's so many of you. But if you break through. He said that to me. He said Scottish. Yeah. And he goes, but if you break, you break for an entire career.

Right. As opposed to if you're a character act, you get like a three-year window before everybody's like, all right. You remember Yahoo series? You know what I mean? That sort of cautionary tale. act you get like a three-year window before everybody's like all right you remember yahoo series that you know what i mean that sort of cautionary tale and you know there are guys like obviously dice had a much longer arc and he did um but you know the the a more sort of outside the box acquired taste like it's you know it has a shorter shelf life well i think that's true of all art forms it's not just stand-up. I think that if it's very,

if you stay where, like if Boy had stayed Ziggy Stardust, it wouldn't, you know, it doesn't be, but an artist doesn't stay like that. Yeah, right. Because you can't be like, your second album can't be yet more Stardust. Yeah.

You know what I mean? It's like Iggy Stardust. Biggie Stardust, the rap album. But I ended up hosting that open mic night. And it was your job. By the time that I took it over, it was your job. You watched all the comics. Right.

And then you decided who got passed on to a callback for Lucian. So it was this weird gatekeeper-y role. So I think that probably happened to me. I got called back after the first one, and then Lucian Hold, who I, sadly, I never connected with him later, and I wish I had, because he's passed now. But he, I mean, I got on late night and stuff.

I should have gone back and seen him. Yeah. And my apartment in New York is like a stone's throw from the comic strip. I walk by it all the time. I loved that place. That was,

I went there my first night in New York City and I saw Sandler pre-SNL. Right. And I'll never forget this, man. He walked on stage

and he goes, you know, nobody knew who he was, you know, and he goes, sorry I'm late, everybody. I was in the cab driver on the way over. He killed a little doggy.

And everybody goes, oh. And he goes, yeah. He didn't even hit it with his car. He just got out of the car and stabbed it. And I was like, right away, I was like, you know what? No tip. And I just, like, I'll never forget. It was my first night in New York City.

And I remember saying to a guy an older comic there I go you got any advice for somebody just starting out

and he goes yeah if there's anything else you can do do that yeah I agree and I go I don't have anything else

I can do and he goes then don't give up your seat at the bar yeah you know just don't quit that's what I'm kind of interested in now because the stand-up world is very different now young

performers male and female can come through using like short social media things and build up that way and get a following and but it it's not like that that's not it's just not the same thing you know it's it's not out of any less value it's just not the same thing. You know, it's not of any less value. It's still, look, if you can make somebody laugh for 45 seconds, that's great. But to assume that that 45 seconds is going to see you through a comic strip on a Monday night. Yeah, it feels different thing. To me coming from New York where there was this huge emphasis, and I'm not putting myself in this category.

I mean, I was not one of these guys. But there were guys who like, the emphasis was on, you got to keep writing, you got to keep evolving, you got to keep working on your craft, you got to like, you know. There were guys, it was almost like a badge of honor. If they were doing a set and they just refused to go to their a-list material yeah if they were trying out new shit and they were dying and everyone every comic in the room knew they could kill yeah but they refused to do it oh yeah you know it was like

a badge of honor yeah it's cool in la i got to la and it just felt like land of the shortcut, like land of the, I want to do a seven minute set for network and get a development deal. And, you know, it felt like a pass through, like stand up was a pass through to something. That's right. It was, it was a thing going on to something else. And I guess kind of, I did that really. That's how I ended up on the Drew Carey show. Cause Drew had done that through that through you know his 10 minutes on Carson or five minutes on Carson and then he'd go to the deal and and stuff and and I had got I think I got the audition because of doing like a stand-up at the at the improv in LA and then I didn't do stand-up for 10 years I mean that's I did sort of that version of I did stand up for I don't know seven years in New York

got talk soup and then came out here I didn't you know it was different culture different comics I didn't know anybody and the first year that I was on talk soup it was the OJ trial that he was covering live so I had to be out of the studio by like 7.30 in the morning. And so I was getting to work at like 3.30 or 4. And it just, you couldn't do stand-up. Like I couldn't do stand-up five nights a week. Right. You know?

And I blinked and I had been out of stand-up for like a year, but I was doing television. And I just like, I took the path of- You were great in that show, man. That was a great show. I remember like 16 years I was out television, and I just like, I took the path of- You were great in that show, man. That was a great show. Like, I remember, like, 16 years I was out of stand-up. And then I was like, I think I'm going to go back and try it again. I ran into Joe Rogan at a club, and he goes, you going on? And I go, yeah.

And he goes, how long has it been since you did stand-up? And I go, 16 years. And he goes, how'd you do? I did all right. I mean, you know, I'm comic but it's not it's not my i don't feel like that's my fastball really i i mean i i i'm i am constantly sort of taunting myself to like maybe i need to go back and and just throw out everything and start fresh of who i am now you know and uh because, uh, cause I, when I went back,

it was like, now I was, I wasn't writing the jokes I was writing in my twenties. I was writing jokes as like, now I'm a husband and a father right now, maybe I just need to just turn the page again and start over. I feel like I am, I am most comfortable and I feel like I am at my best when I'm improvising and hosting. Like, I don't know if you feel this way. I don't know if between stand-up and, for instance, what you were doing on your talk show. Like, I've told you this. I feel very strongly that what you did on your talk show should not be considered a talk show when you are talking and comparing it to other talk shows.

No, it wasn't a talk show. It was not... It's lazy media shit that you call a talk show. No, it's not. You're selling yourself short. And I, you know, for a comic to realize,

you know, anybody who's done a talk show knows you go over the questions a million times, you go over your answers a million times. There is absolutely nothing spontaneous about it and what you did was entirely throw that that format out and let's just figure it out and to do that with no net is to me i like i couldn't have a greater sense of respect so i don't know if you, when you talk about thinking on your feet, being present, being spontaneous,

when you look at that versus you writing and doing stand-up, if you feel like one is definitively stronger than the other. I don't see any, I don't write stand-up doing that way. I mean, I write for myself, but if I'm going to write an act, and I do, I'm going to tell this story about that uh the time i got that thing on my ass right bullet points yeah and that's it i never write any more than that

uh and so when i when i go out and do it it's like it changes every night it's not i mean it's not right very few things land the same way every night. Yeah. And that's what you do, right? I mean, it's certainly what I did when I was doing a lot of stand-up. Right. I remember doing weird shit. In my 20s, before I got TalkSoup, I remember doing things like, because sometimes you're performing and it's late at night or you get a crowd that's not necessarily kind of, you're not able to dance with. And there were times where I would do stuff like I'd get frustrated and turn and face the wall.

And I would do my entire act with facial expressions and gestures, but with my back to them. Or I'd lay down on the stage, you know, and do... How did it go? Did it ever work? It's funny because it would be like, it'd be funny, and then it would get quiet. Right. And then it would get really funny, and then it would get annoying. Yeah.

And then it would, you know, it would just like go through these cycles. Yeah. But I remember being like, saying once, oh, I know what you're thinking. Surely, he has to turn around. Well, ladies and gentlemen, let me teach you a little lesson in something I call commitment. But yeah, I mean, it was because then it really did feel like there was nothing to lose. There were no rules. You were just like, really.

So was that leading up to going into the soup or was that after the soup? No, that was before TalkSoup. All right. So you're going to TalkSoup. And TalkSoup is one of those life-changing gigs, right? That's one of those legacy gigs. Because no matter what you do,

it'll always be part of the show, part of the Wikipedia breakdown for you. And that was very much a bullet-pointed TV show. Yeah, it looked like it. It had a vibe. I mean, that talk soup, what you were doing in talk soup, very much influenced

what I did in Late Night. I was very aware, going into Late Night, like what Skunk Boy was doing on talk soup, I want that vibe. I'm very open. And where did it get you?

Well, you know, I got my own podcast. I always think about this. I had a director, Fred Mendez, who was brilliantly funny. And he would come over the stage and announce. And whenever we had like, you know, our sketches were like drawing up a play in the dirt. Yeah, I remember them. I'm going to say this.

And then you come in and you say, you know, and these guys are crew guys, and they're like, yeah. And you just knew when you had built something that was too heavy to fly, you know what I mean? And my director would come right before he rolled, he would come over to the stage and do Tom Hanks from Saving Private Ryan. He'd go, I'll see you on the beach, you know, like before the boat lands on Normandy Beach and fucking people's heads. Because it was like, you just knew this is going to be a catastrophic failure.

And that was sort of, that was the beauty of it. Yeah, but the thing of what people, I think, or what I never understood early in comedy is that failure, and Carson was a master of this, when it goes wrong, it's better. Now, you can't fake when it goes wrong. You can't fake it going wrong. But if you try and fail, then that is gold. Yeah, it's the difference between,

obviously without naming names, and I don't even have specific examples in my head, but when you're watching SNL and someone really breaks, as opposed to when someone feigns breaking. And, you know, it's, there's... The fake break thing bothers me, because I'm like, no. I mean, look, I'm the world's worst.

I can't hold it in. But I feel like I can tell when it's like, yeah, that's bullshit. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I can't tell when it's like, yeah, that's bullshit. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I did a movie once, a really terrible movie with Kevin Nealon, and we started getting... Do you know you and I were in the same movie, by the way? We were?

Yeah. I looked at your bio today. We were in a movie together. What? Yeah. Life Without Dick. Oh, my God. That's right.

I'm in that movie. I am in that movie for two seconds. All right. Well, I don't think I'm in it for much more than that. Yeah, yeah. Bix Cahill. B'm in that movie. I am in that movie for two seconds. All right. Well, I don't think I'm in it for much more than that. Yeah, yeah. Bix Cahill. Bix Cahill, yeah. Yeah.

Oh, that's so funny. Oh my God. Yeah. I worked with him on an ABC pilot years ago that I loved. And at one point, I fired him on the air, like in the middle of the pilot. I go, hey, Bix, come and see me after the show. And he goes, okay. And I go, and bring all your stuff.

But Kevin and I got the giggles, and we were shooting overnight in front of the improv, and the sun was starting to come up, and people were panicking because they're like, dude, this is the last night of shooting. We don't have the, we can't, we need this. Like, tuck it in, guys. And Kevin couldn't stop laughing and that was making me laugh. And so there's a moment where he has to turn to me and because he was looking out for himself, he did this, where he was like looking up and away at a 45 degree

angle. So it was an over the shoulder shot of him him so it looked like he was making eye contact with me but he made it exponentially harder for me to keep a straight face because it looked like his eyes were rolling back in his head god man there's nothing better than those kind of i remember tons of those so from all over a lot of ton of shows i mean but the thing was when i was doing by the time i got to late night we didn't care yeah you know it was like by the time I got to late night, we didn't care. You know, it was like, by the time the skeleton was out there with Josh Robert Thompson and stuff, it's like, nobody gives a shit. There was an acknowledged irreverence

to like, it was almost a dare. Like, what are you going to do? I kept calling them for, CBS eventually said, stop saying that, or we're just going to, there's going to be trouble. I used to call it don't give a fuck TV. And used to call it don't give a fuck tv and they would they would call it they'd call it don't give a don't see fruitsy tv and then i did it like three or four times i'm like you know it's coming from upstairs now

you gotta stop saying don't give a fuck yeah yeah because and also i get the same week it was when i was saying cbs where the c stands for classy and the BS speaks for itself. Oh, that's great. They fucking came down on me. They were like, no, stop that. You can't say that because that'll become a thing. I'm like, that's the whole point. Yeah.

They're like, no, stop it. It's out there now. Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling, as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life and marriage. I don't think he knew how big it would be, how big the life I was given and live is. I think he was like, oh, yeah, things come and go. But with me, it never came and went. Is she Donna Martin or a down and out divorcee? Is she living in Beverly Hills or a

trailer park? In a town where the lines are blurred, Tori is finally going to clear the air in the podcast, Misspelling. When a woman has nothing to lose, she has everything to gain. I just filed for divorce. Whoa. I said the words that I've said like in my head for like 16 years. Wild. Listen to Misspelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Angie Martinez. Check out my podcast where I talk to some of the biggest

athletes, musicians, actors in the world. We go beyond the headlines and the soundbites to have real conversations about real life, death, love, and everything in between. This life right here, just finding myself, just, just relaxation. It's not feeling stressed. It's not feeling pressed. This is what I'm most proud of. I'm proud of Mary because I've been through hell and some horrible things. That feeling that I had of inadequacy is gone. You're going to die being you. So you've got to constantly work on who you are to make sure that the stars align correctly. Life ain't easy and it's getting harder and harder.

So if you have a story to tell, if you've come through some trials, you need to share it because you're going to inspire someone. You're going to give somebody the motivation to not give up, to not quit. Listen to Angie Martinez IRL

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Want to know how to leverage culture to build a successful business? Then Butternomics is the podcast for you. I'm your host, Brandon Butler, founder and CEO of Butter ATL. Over my career, I've built and helped run multiple seven-figure businesses that leverage culture and build successful brands.

Now I want to share what I've learned with you. And on Butternomics, we go deep with today's most influential entrepreneurs, innovators, and business leaders to peel back the layers on how they use culture as a driving force in their business. On every episode, we get the inside scoop on how these leaders tap into culture to build something amazing. From exclusive interviews to business breakdowns, we'll explore the journey of turning passion for culture into business. Whether you're just

getting started or an established business owner, Butternomics will give you what you need to take your game to the next level. This is Butternomics. Listen to Butternomics on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You're filtering your comedy through like there's the producers you work with and there's the producers at the production company and then there's the executives. And so, you know, there's like nine people that a joke has to make it past to get into the show. Right. And so you start losing jokes that you fall in love with. Oh my God, it's the worst. And so there were two ways that we dealt with it.

I'm sure you did very similar things on your show, but it was, all right, if I have a joke that's on the line, I'm going to write half a dozen jokes that are so far over the line that maybe it downgrades the way this reads to them and they let it go. And then when they kind of caught on to that, I just started saying to my writers like, hey, don't put that in the script. And I will magically improvise it the day of the shoot. And it led to like a protest of the show by the indigenous peoples of America for a joke that I had made that was a little dark. And there was a letter writing campaign and phone calls to the executives. And then they called me. And it was a joke that John Anderson and I, we were very rarely on camera together. And we were on camera.

And I had improvised it. And it had gone so well, they didn't get a backup. So they had nothing to cut away to they had no way to edit it out and they called me and were like hey what the hell man you made this joke and it upset people and I go it was Socratic irony and I assumed judging by the fact that everyone laughed and you all signed off on the episode, that that's the way it was interpreted. Oh, no. Once it goes through the edit process, then at that point, it's on them. Yeah. Oh, totally.

So now when they repeat that episode, they literally just drop the audio. Oh, really? So it's just our mouths moving and there's no audio. And then it comes back like seven seconds later. Maybe they should have done that in the first place. No one would get upset. It's a different world though, man. Because if people get upset back then, they had to put together a layer writing campaign and get organized and come after you.

Now, it's easy to get into trouble. I've done it. I know know you got into a little trouble. I've done it. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, did it freak you out when it happened to you?

Very much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because it was, you know, I, I put a joke on Twitter that,

uh, I remember it was some dumb political joke or something. Yeah. Yeah. And it drew, uh, an official response from a white house spokesperson and and it was but it was such a it was at the time it was 2020 so it was the

beginning of the pandemic you know financial collapse widespread unrest after the death of george floyd and i was, are you fucking kidding me? People are going to be clutching your pearls over what is clearly a joke by a guy who has never said anything remotely serious in his life. But there were death threats. Yeah, it's an interesting, touchy time. I mean, I know, like I find myself, I'm very cautious with who I, except, except doing standup shows. Like if I'm doing a standup show and it's a live show, I'm like, we know why we're here. And I say to the audience at the start, you know, don't because, you know, don't be tweeting that. Don't be saying that. If I want to tweet it out, I got a fucking Twitter account I can do it, leave it the fuck alone and let's have enjoy a quiet

sneaky night in the club this is not for everybody because it's not for everybody I used to remember, this happened a lot in late night I noticed it the first time you remember those vegetarian vampire movies that all the kids

were watching for a while? What was it? It was like Twilight and all that shit. It was like the vampire was nice and everything and he's your boyfriend. Yeah. And I remember I had one of the actors on or something. Wayfie vampires. Yeah.

It's like the vampires that care about your feelings. Yeah, and wear eyeliner. And walk you to school and stuff. But I had one of the actors on. Yeah, and wear eyeliner. And walk you to school and stuff. But one of the actors, we were dicking around. But I wasn't sufficiently reverential to the actor for the fans of that actor who were on it.

I can't even remember who it was. But they were like, people gave me a hard fucking, they were like, what the fuck? I don't even watch these fucking movies. How come I have to be, like now I have to be a fanboy for the thing you're into? Right, right. I don't get it.

But it's because if you try to appeal to too many people, you're going to get into trouble. Well, I think the mistake that I made was I had been, you know, I was sort of exercising my, I was feeling my oats on social media. And I, you know, you get away with something, you push the envelope, and then you think you can push it a little bit further. And I had been doing, I'd been making some jokes that, you know, like, well, I would just say jokes that I thought were, you know, I was doing this thing where I was trolling the right, and I would pick a person, and I would post a photo of them, and I'd write, so-and-so looks like, you know, Stephen Miller looks like, or Matt Gaetz looks like. But then I would write as many jokes in that formula as I could in like 10 minutes.

Right. So I might write 25 of them, and the progression of them was, to me, funny. You know what I mean? Like, you know, Matt Gaetz looks like he owns Ted Bundy's rookie card. You know? Like, you know, and that was where it started. So you can imagine where 25 was. And it was reverberating a little bit for my level of Twitter exposure and getting a little

traction. And I just, I just kept pushing and the fires out. And I, yeah, I mean, I put it this way that I was sort of scared straight by that. Like I just went, all right, you know what? Like I'm, I'm fine. I think where it went, it went a little crazy is when so-called legit press started using Twitter and social media as a source. Right. And then you go, well, that's not a source, man. That's like walking into a bathroom, reading something on the stall and saying, sources say. Yeah. Sources say what?

Where? I mean, what the? Well, that's the thing. It's useful as like up to the second news, but when the news is coming, when it's now being mirrored back from social media, it's like, no, no, no, no, no, man. You guys tell us. We're not telling you. Yeah, it's very odd.

But of course, it's really, it's about money. It's always about money. And you follow the money and you get the story. Remember the wire, you know, follow the money. And when it follow the money and you get the story like remember the wire you know yeah follow the money yeah and and when it's the money the money is in the clicks and the information sharing and the men for me the clicks it doesn't matter about being right no one gives a shit about being right said maybe some guy on a on an actual paper that's made of paper but no nobody really cares it's about being first i i think i am where i am now with social media is what i believe

is a similar place to where you are which is it feels like an obligation now oh totally it is i i hire people to do it for me and you and and and you have this sort of lifeline of like fine i'll fucking post something on instagram every once in a while, but I'm, I cannot bring myself to be one of those guys that is like, I need to have X number of followers and I'm going to, you know, chase the followers and the crowd and the reaction. It's, it just, I don't know. It just makes me feel oogie. Well, it's not, it's not the same. It's not, it's not fun. Yeah. It's gotta be fun or I don't want to do it. I'm too fucking, I'm not talented enough to do shit that isn't fun. And it's not it's not fun yeah there's got to be fun or i don't want to do it i'm too fucking i'm not talented enough to do shit that isn't fun and it's hard enough to do

stuff that is fun yeah i know so if it's not fun i know that's why i want to very i mean we're going on all over the place but i want to talk to you about wiper and i'll tell you for why because for my money hands down guaranteed fucking laugh every single episode every single no matter how many times i've seen the reruns that fucking show every time i say now it's deep into the you know the thousands and kind of like uh the satellite it's everywhere now it's fucking it's on Apple TV and Netflix and HBO it's hilarious do people get really hurt

doing that yeah I can imagine um yeah some of those like the boxing glove

that comes out the fucking wall though man it's you know I remember running into Johnny Knoxville

at one point and he goes oh my god I love Wipeout. He's also in Life Without Decay, I think. We're all in that same movie. It's the zealot that brings us all together. I literally, I go, really? It seems so tame compared to the jackass stuff.

And he goes, yeah, it's just fun watching people get smoked. And I was like, that's it. And it is, I think Wipeout is, in essence, it's a sort of universal form

of physical humor that just bridges ages and backgrounds and, you know, interests. And it also doesn't pretend

to be anything. It's not. And I think that's really funny. Like when you, who was your co-host on it again? John Anderson. Right. You and John Anderson doing it as the kind of serious sports guys was like fucking chef's kiss. I mean, it got it just perfect.

The tone was just perfect. It was a little Laurel and Hardy-ish where he was the guy who knew what he was doing and I was the idiot that he tolerated. Like I say, sports guys. Like every fucking commentator. It was so much fun to do. And I remember auditioning for that. And you just went in and they showed you a run and you just vamped live over it. And I i just remember going like oh yeah yeah like he goes do you want to watch it first i went no like you know let it run yeah and he did it i did it for like whatever two and a half minutes and he goes you want to do it again nope like i'm you know i'm good and it was i loved that show i loved doing it i've had i've had some you know i think my one of my social media bios says uh talk soup, wipe out, and a few shows

no one watched, you know. Talk soup, though, you know, let's not be wrong about talk soup. If I am doing the late night show, if my late night show is I don't know, Bowie, then talk soup is the velvet underground. It is. It's gratifying now to occasionally hear from people who I am enormous fans of who grew up watching that show and will say,

like I remember running into Sasha Baron Cohen and him going, I grew up watching that show on Sky tv and i was like what and he goes oh yeah it was a huge influence on me or going to like an snl taping and you know people like kristen wig or you know whoever like telling you like oh my god i'd like i'm like really because it was my first job in tv and it was basic cable and we didn't know if there was anyone watching. Well, the thing is though, it was, it was so fresh and shows like TalkSoup, shows like that, I think they live, I remember having a conversation the last week I was doing late night, I was sitting with producer Mike Nath, this is a friend of mine and Mike said, you know, it's a shame people really love this show. It's a shame you're stepping back. And was like they may love it now but it's not as much as

they're gonna love it 10 years from now when I've not been doing it for a while right and I felt that when and I believe that to be true I get people coming to the show now they never saw the show this is coming to see me live they never saw saw the show go out on cbs they never saw it they watch on fucking youtube right they watch clips of it yeah and i you know you you did you know you you sort of barry sanders that show where you like you retired at the top like you you know what i mean you stepped away from that show without writing it into the ground and that was i i pulled the plug on my time at talk soup after four and a half years now that was a daily show with no hiatus. It was grueling.

Yeah. You know, three, four writers doing two and a half hours a week, three hours a week. And, but it was, you know, there got to, it was 1999 and they had given me the opportunity to sign a new four-year contract. And the talk shows themselves were dying off. You know, they were like that's right because it's on ice flows you know yeah and i just thought four and a half like it's fun now but it could be wringing a fucking towel that i just don't want to be around i love this too much to leave the party a little bit early rather than a little bit late. Yeah. I feel it's just like, just like enough. I remember having this conversation with Jared Butler, Gerard Butler, Jerry Butler, right?

And we were working on a movie, one of these dragon movies, and we were talking about it. It was just when I was quitting, and he said, you're a quitter. And I went, yeah, I don't know. It's probably better to get out. It's like being a boxer. Leave before you get hurt. Yeah. Maybe when you start, you know. Yeah. Start getting. Take off before you're a boxer. Leave before you get hurt. Yeah. Leave before you start, you know...

Yeah. Start getting... Take off before you're sitting in the corner with a coloring book. Taking a few punches. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I kind of feel that way about it. And I fucking much respect you, man. And I really mean it. I really mean it. You are the archetype of a narco TV, of don't give a fuck TV, was put together.

You were right there. You were Warhol and Bowie and fucking Jackson Pollock. You were right there fucking doing it. Well, that is more kind than I deserve. But I am grateful to have been in the right place at the right time for that era of TV because there was no supervision.

So there won't... You can't have that, you know? We'd go months without seeing... Nobody ever sat in on my tapings. Nobody ever told me what we could say. They weren't last executives. No, it's a career. Like, being a stand-up is a career. You believe that shit?

It's a career. Like, people say, my dream is to be a stand-up. My dream to you know was to be anything but a stand-up yeah uh but there you go it's uh it works out the way it works so john you're a joy it's great to be here man it's so wonderful to see you i'm so happy you came and talked about shit, which, you know, it's matters to me. It's always good to see you. Always good to talk to you. Yeah, you too, my friend. Want to know how to leverage culture to build a successful business? Then Butternomics is the podcast for you. I'm your host, Brandon Butler, founder and CEO of Butter ATL.

And on Butternomics, we go deep with today's most influential entrepreneurs, innovators, and business leaders to peel back the layers on how they use culture as a driving force in their business. Butternomics will give you what you need to take your game to the next level. Listen to Butternomics on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. For 10 years, I've been obsessed with one of the most bizarre and audacious cons in rock and roll history. We were all facing 20 years and all that good stuff. The lead singer tried to pull off an English accent and they went on the road as the zombies.

These guys are not going to get away with it. Zombies are too popular. Listen to the true story of the fake zombies on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous,

sometimes chaotic life in marriage. I just filed for divorce. Whoa. I said the words that I've said like in my head for like 16 years. Wild. Listen to Miss Spelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.