Joy, a Podcast. Hosted by Craig Ferguson - Kalea McNeill & Andrew Rivers

Episode Date: June 25, 2024

Welcome to the young comedian special with Kalea McNeill & Andrew Rivers, two great comics and rad people! Tune in for fun conversation about what the life of a true comedian is like in the modern age.   Andrew's brilliant brand new special is out now titled Hello, Beautiful and you can click here to watch it. Kalea’s new hilarious set on Comedy Central can be seen here and her special "Sma'am" is currently on Prime Video, visit her website for more info on all things Kalea http://kaleamcneill.com/ .  EnJOY! This is a fun one! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Do it. When I do live gigs around the country, I'll be honest with you, I sell t-shirts and swag to the folks who are there. And then people always say, can we get the swag without sitting through a whole evening of you? Well, it's happened. It's finally here. You can buy Craig Ferguson merch on the Craig Ferguson merch website, and you can buy it for yourself or someone you hate or someone you love. For more information and link to the web store, please go to thecraigfergusonshow.com. That's all lowercase. Thecraigfergusonshow.com. My name is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast is Joy. I talk to interesting people

about what brings them happiness. Welcome to the Young Comedian Special, where I, as not a young comedian, will talk to two young comedians about being young comedians, and they're very funny and very interesting people. Andrew Rivers and Kalia McNeil. Enjoy. Enjoy. So let's just, before we start, I do want to just reiterate, because I did just say this before we started, that as I look at the two of you right now, and I think you might have said it first, for Buddy Cop Movie.

Okay, yeah. All right. You are a professional officer that has been forced into the situation of taking on a partner who is a well-connected, you know... Loser. Stoner., loser, stoner. Loser or stoner. You're trying to clean it up the second time. No, I didn't. I think loser is fine.

But I realized when I said loser that it might have sounded that I thought you were a loser. And that is not what I'm thinking. And also, I may have implied, Kalia, that you were a professional and I wasn't. Right, absolutely. Couldn't be further from the truth. So I don't want to start stereotyping you guys right from the get-go. The reason why I asked you both here together is this. You're both young comics. You're both comers, in my opinion.

You're both at the beginning of what I predict is big careers. You're both very similar, not in the way that you do the stuff or even what you talk about, but I noticed with both of you, you're both anecdotal comedians. And I like that. You're both kind of old school, but you're young comedians. And so I wanted to talk to you and get the vibe and get the feeling and get to know what the young folks are talking about. But first...

Craig needs stand-up lessons, actually. I do. I do need stand-up lessons. He's like, the career has passed me by. I need help. Like, we got you. Hey, everybody. We're going to get you in a Supreme outfit, you know, a Nike Texan. Do you think, I mean, is that a thing?

Is there a look that you have to go for? Like, in your special, right, you look very cool. I think that's part of me being old school, though. Right. If it's something like a special or something that's being filmed that I deem serious, I'm going to put a little something on. I'm going to have some slacks on. I'm going to put a suit on if I can. I just think that's classy.

But I also understand your style matches you sometimes. Right. And I love watching a laid-back special and dude looks like he's chilling, but his jokes are also like, you sometimes. Right. And when I, I love watching a laid back special and dude looks like he's chilling, but his jokes are also like, you know, I get that. You very much enjoy Andrew's work

because that's what he's wearing right now. I feel like I've seen you do stand up. Yeah. I just go on stage with what I wore that day. Yeah. I actually got a comment on like my Instagram the other day.

It was like, comedians used to dress proper or whatever, you know. I was like, oh. used to dress proper or whatever, you know. That's awesome. Actually, that was me. Oh, wow. I didn't want to mention it.

I was like, oh, come on. Can't you wear a tie? That's not funny. A real comedian wears a tie. Do you know what? I remember, I used to get a lot when I was a young comic, when I swore, people would say,

a real comedian doesn't have to swear do you did they still come after you for the swears my mom oh yeah your mom my mom says that she's like you know it was nice but you know sinbad didn't curse and i'm like all right shit's crazy now yeah richard prior did though i mean he he did curse and and. And I know I've cast no expressions on Sinbad. He's a fine performer and a lovely man. But in the Hall of Fame of standouts, Richard Pryor, Sinbad. Yeah. I think even Sinbad would be like, I think Richard probably edges me out a little bit.

Yeah. You cuss a little bit. Sometimes, yeah. I think they used to say that about political comedians too. And then it's like, well, Carlin had a fine career, you know? Yeah. I think at the end of the day, you don't need permission to make art. So it's like, fuck those people, you know?

Like, this is what I'm doing, and it should make me happy first. And then the world is big enough now for you to find your own audience. Thousand percent. I think that's quite interesting because you guys are coming of age and making your bones at a time when comedy is more... I'm not going to say it's under the microscope more, but it kind of is a little bit.

I think there's like a boom of it for sure, but then, yeah, more attention causes more scrutiny, causes... Do you find that your audiences kind of find you? I mean, like, do you get a black gay audience? Do you get a, you know, stoner audience? No, I'm not even, I'm calling you a stoner.

You kind of are a bit of a stoner. Yeah, but my jokes aren't. It's funny that you say that is I've recently finally started noticing that very thing. Because it was, you know've i've for a few years now kind of been on the road and you know you have great shows you have shows that sell very well but it's also like you know did did this show sell really well because you know it's a friday night in connecticut or were they really coming to see you know me specifically or is this just what they wanted to do tonight um like Justin Timberlake was sold out.

Right, right. So we're here. But no, recently, I had a show in January. I did a weekend at this comedy club in New Orleans called Comedy House NOLA. And I'd never, I've been to New Orleans to do like debauchery, but I've never performed in New Orleans. And so first time performing, I'm like, you know, what's it going to be like? You know, I'm doing my promos as much as I can, so on and so forth. And it hit me when I was on stage,

like I'm looking at the crowd and I'm looking at people who look like me. And it was just one of those feelings, like I knew for a fact, like they, you know, either saw my flyer or saw my clips or saw my ad or whatever. And we're like, you know what, we're comfortable going to see that, you know, going to see her. And yeah, so from that point, I'm starting to pay attention and seeing a little bit more of that now. And it feels great. Yeah. I was going to say, does it feel good or does it, I mean, cause like I'm, I'm an old white guy. I'm used to seeing audiences look like me, but, but it's, um, but I like to see people that don't look, in fact, I'm looking for people that don't look like me and my audience. I kind of, I, that's, I kind of like that, but I suppose the numbers are different

percentage-wise anyway, right? I mean, it's kind of a little bit of both. It feels good, but at the same time, it's just me personally. It's like I grew up in Fairfield, California. I grew up right outside of Napa, about 25 minutes from San Francisco. So I grew up around everyone. So most of the shows I do are for everyone, if you get my drift. Um, but I just, I guess you can say now it's like, I'm just starting to see an influx of. And you are an anecdotal comic. So you're going to talk about your own life experience, just like you do, Andrew. It's like you, you talk about what's happened to you.

It's why I'm interested in you both. You're not, you do jokes, but you're not joke merchants. You're not, you're not gag merchants, which I think right now, that's where the big money is. I got to tell you. I think right now is gag merchants. I'm switching it up. I don't know, though. I don't think you can. This is why you're both here.

I think you're both here because, like me, you really can't do anything else. But it's a slow burn. I think it does. It pays off. It's getting there. I think with the way you guys have to do it now, there's a lot of social media involved, right?

And you have your own Instagrams and TikToks and all that stuff. And are you aware? Do you put together, I better do a minute on, is that too much on TikTok? I don't know, 45 seconds. Like I have to do a joke today. Is that a thing? Yeah, I mean, it's part of growing your brand and those things. You know, I think of the the clips as like almost like a

quarter in a slot machine where it's like if one of those things pops off and gets 20 million views, then your whole life could change. Is that true? Yeah. Does that really work like that? I mean, I know, two people personally that it's happened to. Two of the biggest, arguably the biggest names in comedy right now. Matt Rife and Morgan Jack. Yeah, right. Like, literally.

Like, I mean, the Netflix festival two years ago, Matt and I did a show, could not fill the bourbon room. He just sold out the Hollywood Bowl. That's amazing. From a crowd work clip. I mean, now he was extremely consistent. And his handsome face and his beautiful pecs. There's a lot of really cute guys at a bar show, right? That's true.

I was one of them. See, that's the thing. You guys go, I just found out as you go here, you actually did a show together, right? That's right. Yeah. We did a show up in Everett. Everett, Washington. Classy.

Yeah. It's called The Dope Show. Everett. Everett, Washington. Classy. Yeah. It's called The Dope Show. So, the premise is that comedians, they do a set, and then they take a smoke break, and then they come back stoned. And it's hijinks, but really

it's like, oh, comedians performing like they normally do. Like they normally do, but just higher. Yeah. Yeah, because I was going to say. But the audience is in on the bit, so you have permission to get a little loose, or go down a weird riff, rabbit hole that doesn't always end well. What I'm sensing is that the audience may also be high. Yes.

So it's basically a marijuana festival. Okay, that's fine. The hard part is staying sober until the first set, I think. I just always forget. I've done it a few times because I'll wake up, I'll smoke a joint, and I'm like, oh, shit. I'm supposed to be, shit. Okay. I'm supposed to be sober later or present as sober, yeah. See, it's funny.

Marijuana, which, I mean, you're both very comfortable with it. I was very uncomfortable with marijuana. It made me paranoid and sad. We just got to get you the right strength. No, everybody said that. That's what happened to me. We got you. No, no.

That's what happened to me when I was talking to a gay friend about when I tried. Yeah. Like I tried being gay and I did a gay thing with me and another man and we did a gay. And I said after it, you know, when the penis comes to your face, I said, it's not for me. That's what happened when i did a straight i said you know what i don't like it well no i get it but so it's kind of the same as the penis comes at you you're like not for me thank you but do they do that with coke too or it's like yeah i just don't really like it no you just gotta try my coke you know no they don't they don't want to give away coke that's true but i remember but i had a discussion with a friend of mine who's a gay man.

He said it was just the wrong penis. And I'm like, was it though? Because they're kind of, you know, they vary a little bit, but not enough for me to go, you know. And I think marijuana is the same. It varies a bit, but not enough. Okay. You know, so, but when does it wear off, by the way? Am I not?

I mean, I hate to say, I smoke often. No, I'm not talking about marijuana. She's never sober. I'm good right now. I'm not talking about marijuana. I'm talking about the gay. When does the gay wear off? How long ago was that? It was about 30 years ago.

30 years. 35. Okay. When you go to the beach. Yes. What do you wear? A suit. Long sleeve. Long sleeve.

Long sleeve. No Speedos? Maybe if it's very hot an open-toed espadrille, but that's it. He opens a suntan bottle and a sweatshirt comes out. No, why would that? Speedos? Speedos, it makes you European, which also

is gay. Right. I wouldn't wear Speedos, though. Just because I'm uncomfortable in Speedos. How handsome do you think The Rock is? Oh, very handsome indeed. Actually, you know, when I think about it, maybe I would be willing to give it a go.

That might be the one. That might be the one. You have a gay checklist. You're showing three symptoms. And then he'll be open to smoking again. Yeah. I'm kind of, you know, when I think about it, maybe it doesn't wear off. You know?

He was on the old late night show, The Rock, and I was like, my God, you are beautiful. Did you get to like feel him up or anything? No, I didn't feel him up. Come on. But I, you know, he's The Rock. Yeah, I know. You know, but I was appreciative of the beauty of the human. He's gorgeous, man.

He really is. No doubt about human. He's a gorgeous man. He really is. No doubt about it. But he wasn't high. So are you high right now then? Did you smoke? Actually, because this is our first meeting and because I listened to your last episode where I heard you say you don't do drugs,

I am not high. Well, I don't want you to not do drugs because I don't do drugs. As soon as I leave here, I'm going to be high. And also, Andrew, there's no way to observe that rule. rule well this isn't a first impression well is that true I mean do have you smoked today or no I haven't smoked in a couple days so I am so sorry thank you you I feel like dare you judge and stereotype

based on previous knowledge and conversation yeah Based on everything you know. Based on everything you know. And the fact that we met at a weed show. Yeah. And then you had your intern research me. Wait a minute. You guys are turning around on me. I don't quite know where I am now. Back in 1969, this was the hottest song around.

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Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Presented by State Farm. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Is that a drug that you're comfortable... I mean, clearly it's a drug you're comfortable performing with. I used to drink and that used to get in the way. I couldn't really do it. It's kind of... For me, at least, it's almost a little bit of the routine.

It's part of my pre-show prep. I actually can't have a drink before I go on stage. I don't have a drink until I get off stage. And it's not like I'm blowing blunts to the face. I take a couple of puffs of the joint and go up there. Is there like a Chappelle-ish comic that smokes a joint during the set? There should be.

There should be. I think Dave Chappelle might be one of those guys, actually. Does Dave smoke? He smokes a cigarette. He smokes a cigarette. He smokes a cigarette. Or vapes, maybe. He's got that kind of little baby thing. Can you vape marijuana?

I'm sorry for it. No, yeah. We can teach you, Papa. Everything. Everything, Papa. No, I am Papa now. I can't be doing Papa. I am Papa.

Like, Papa's got the drugs. I didn't like the vape pen because it was too easy. Like I feel like there should be shame involved. You shouldn't be able to puff a cloud of vapor and disappear like Batman. There's no evidence. You know what? Shame is a much underappreciated quality in society. There's not enough of it going around.

It's going away. We need to bring a little back. Everybody is too positive. I was raised. Beat up those high schoolers. Well, you know, I was raised... Beat up those high schoolers. Well, you know, I was raised with a certain amount of shame

and I feel like... Actually, you two must have had it too. Probably. Yeah, because you don't become a stand-up unless you have some... Right.

Some shame, some bad... My wife says that all stand-ups have the same mom. Cold with bad boundaries. Does that sound any way familiar?

Maybe she's just saying about my mom. I think she's finding a way to talk about your mom. Look, she's not lying about my mom, but I mean, my mom was, she's a lovely lady, but she, I mean, it was definitely a strict household. Yeah. That's for sure. Um, yeah. My mom was the enforcer.

I mean, my dad was the creative. Your dad was in show business. Yeah. So she, her job was to make sure he sobered up eventually, you know? So she did all the business and all the, and he was like, I'm going to write wacky songs. Right. See, no, my mom was a correctional counselor. Okay. And my dad.

I'm afraid to your mom and I've never even met your mom. And my dad, um, once he retired from paroles, became a preacher. So no, I wish I had the show business. Dad, that would be cool. Well, I don't know. I mean, they both kind of, like my dad worked in the post office. I don't know why that I even ended up as a stand-up. It sounds fairly okay compared to the trauma of what you like show business or pastoring are you are you still religious it's there you know what i mean i'm i'm not going to church every sunday or anything like that but i'm not also anti you know i'll if when i'm home for the holidays when i'm home i'm going to church on sunday with the family and you know do you some of the preachers you know

sam kinnison was a preacher back in the day yeah sam, Sam Kinison used to, he was way back before he got into, do you guys know who I'm talking about? Because it's a long time ago. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Sam was a, He started on me. He started on me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know if that was an impression or he just remembered. Oh, yeah. But he was a very, aggressive is the wrong word, but very, Like a fiery. Yeah, fiery stand-up. That's a good one. Yes.

And he was a preacher when he started. A lot of the preacher, the style of preaching in churches can be. Well, he wanted to be stand-up. He wanted to tell more truth in stand-up, I think. How dare you. Come on, folks. I know a stand-up who just stopped to be a preacher. Really? Who's that?

His name is Aaron Hall. And he's moved to Florida. So I don't know if we'll ever hear from him again. Well, he'll move to Florida and become a preacher. He'll make a lot more money than he would have made being a stand-up. It's funny how that, because the tradition of where I'm from, preachers, you know, they don't, you're not looking for a show in a Scottish Protestant church.

It's like, you are bad. Jesus is coming to get you. Look out. Guilt driven. Kind of. Yeah, a little. And we are the chosen ones. Well, Black Baptist Church, lots of singing, lots of clapping.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's a little. It's a three-hour event. You got to ration it because usually at a black church, they'll have two services a day. They'll have like an 8 o'clock and a 10.30 or an 11 o'clock. You want to go to that 8 o'clock because you know there has to be an end time.

Right. It's like the early show. They're going to finish it at some point. Second service, the only time there is an end time is on Super Bowl Sunday. Right. It's like the early show. They're going to finish it at some point. Second service, the only time there is an end time is on Super Bowl Sunday. Wow. See, that's a lot of church for me. I don't know if I could do that. I'm in and out in half an hour, if anything. I mean,

these days, not at all. I can't do it. Your confession's got to take at least three hours. We don't do confession. Nowadays, my confession is like, well, I took that parking spot.

I probably shouldn't have taken it. Well, you'll go to hell for an extra 500 years and that'll be it. But what about the idea of

ambition and rivalry? Because like when I was a young stand-up, things were quite aggressive between stand-ups.

It was quite bitter and quite jealous. Now, I don't want to lead the witness, but I kind of feel like your generation is a little more collegiate. A little more collaborative, I think. Because most of our... We don't need a network anymore. So we're not fighting for 52 spots on The Tonight Show. We're fighting for Instagram reels or whatever. So I would say more collaborative, yeah.

I would say yes and no. I think, too, it depends on your scene. Based in LA, you have just a lot of nasty nights. That's LA, though. No one's fighting for the Tacoma spots. You know, there's plenty of open nights. Like, I'll go other places and I'm like, oh, this is pleasant.

Everyone was quite pleasant tonight. Like, da-da-da-da. It's not, you know, it's just, yeah. I wouldn't necessarily say rivalries, but, you know, you have people that get quite upset when, like, you don't have a million followers. Well, then how did you get da-da-da-da? Well, it's like, well quite upset when, like, you don't have a million followers. Well, then how did you get to that?

Well, it's like, well, I'm like funny for real. Because there's always like that. That's something that no matter how many gimmicks you have, no matter how many, you know, whatever you have, like if you don't, if you can't show up and show out, like if you don't have that 30, that 45, that 50, that hour for real, for real, then yeah, you had a really great show that one time and then you're never going to get booked again. And what we're seeing is like funny. I think funny is finally starting to come back because you have all these people who got really big on their podcast during the pandemic or they have this great following. And then obviously people are going to come out to see them because, oh my God, I love your TikTok. Oh my God, I love your podcast. And you realize, oh, they can't do stand-up.

And I'm not saying what they do is easy or we'd all have millions of views. Sure. It's just if you're going to come into this lane, I'm going to need you to at least learn it and respect it. Because the one thing that doesn't change is the audience. Whether you've been to a stand-up comedy show or not, if you're coming to see me do stand-up, you're expecting to laugh. Yeah. You're expecting it to be a stand-up show. Yeah, that's the job.

A comic like me, I always say I'm funny, I'm not famous yet. I'll get on the road. I do have my clubs where I headline, but I've been asked to feature for someone who might be a really great TikToker, this or that, and I have on more than one occasion done my 20 minutes, and

now I'm eating, and 15 minutes later, they're wrapping up. I'm eating and 15 minutes later they're wrapping up and I'm like how did I do more 15 minutes and now they're can you go back out there okay well let's talk about

how we're going to handle that with the pay but that's happened a few times well you want some more jokes I'm going to need to see and the business is all about filling the seats now. That's it. So it's like, as long as you can get people in, the club will just give you the money and go, we'll take the drink money, you know? Yeah.

But I think there's also more awareness to the competitive nature of it. Because there's way more comedy podcasts. There's way more people talking about it. So, you know, I think there is awareness of like comparison being the thief of joy. So, you know, I think there is awareness of like comparison being the thief of joy. And well, yeah, but it also is a time when it feels like the world of comedy is policed a little more than for what you guys are allowed to or the orthodoxy of what you're allowed to talk about and what you're not allowed to talk about. And in some regards, I think it's a great leap forward. In other ways, I think you might be handcuffing the wrong people here a little bit. When humor is

under the same rules, I don't know, maybe I'm biased, but I think humor should be under a different set of rules. Am I wrong? I think the intention of just telling a joke should be a get-out-of-jail-free-ish. But it's hard to judge intention, and certainly that

doesn't stop people from taking something and putting a different context on it. But at the end of the day, I think we're still the most free entertainment. You know, we don't have to go through a line of, my brother's in directing and he's trying to get a movie made and he's a, you got to go through 18 different versions of scripts and horrendous. And then you can put it out two years later and then people will hate it. You know, whereas like, I can think of a joke that day.

I can think of a joke that day and then go test it and be like, well, here we go. Here we go. You know, we find out immediately and there's something appealing about that. It's also, but you kind of have to look at who's laughing as well. I mean, it's... There's definitely people that like, sometimes if you do like a gay joke, and then people come up to you, like when you made fun of the gay people, and you're like, I'm getting the wrong stuff.

I mean, my general rule of thumb is this. To your point, I don't feel like anyone should be stifled. And the way I choose, like I'll talk about anything and everything. But as long as I'm not, I know when I wrote this joke, when I came up with this bit, it was not written with malicious intent. And then for the most part,

I'm talking about things that have happened to me. You know, and I tell them, I was like, if you're upset, how the fuck, how the hell do you, excuse me, how the hell do you think I know what actually happened? You know what I mean? Like, it's funny now that we've worked through it

and da-da-da-da-da, but I think, too, what the over-policing now does is it creates a subset of comics that are like, let me say something so outlandish. I agree. That now I've pissed everybody off, and now I'm in this genre of comic, even though they're not even really that person. I agree. Like, there's a lot of comics where I've seen their clips, and I'm like, I don't ever want to run across this person. Right. Meet them, nicest person in the world. They have created this persona.

Also, it speaks to the idea of the illusion that they are comedians. They're not. If you're just saying a bunch of hateful shit that a bunch of other hateful people respond to, I don't feel like that is really working in the genre of comedy. I mean, there are great stand-up comedians. Like, I think Anthony Jeselnik there are great stand-up comedians like i think anthony jeselnik is a great stand-up comedian who works with some stuff like there's no way i could fucking say that

or even agree with it i mean that it's a terrible thing to say he's also going for shock value and yes but he's also he's very skillful and he's a good stand-up, as opposed to you get people who just say mean things. Like shock jock. Yeah, it's not the same. And also, I think, and I don't want to use Jezelnik as an example too much, but I kind of get the feeling that there's a wink there, that I know this is horrible, you know this is horrible, you know somewhere, even though I would never admit to this,

I don't mean this it's the smile too yeah and he's a handsome fellow too so he can get away with a little more there well and that's I think we're all in that

we're all very good looking people and that's that's what we're if that's what you want to believe sure it's your podcast you're allowed to make the rules does it matter?

does it matter good looking? Does it matter? We're not filming this, right? I think stand-up is the one realm where you can be funny looking. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, there's a lot of good looking people doing it now.

Yeah. Well, that's because of TikTok. It used to be like if you had one eye bigger than the other eye. It's like, well, you can't act. It's both. Yeah. You can't be in the middle you know you got to be either so attractive that people stop scrolling or so ugly that people stop what's happening that's i completely agree with that i used to

say that about weight with with actors in hollywood you can't be in between you're either fit or you're fat because if you're in between it's like you're sloppy and you need to either get yourself together or just, yeah. It sounds like a lot of work. What happens when you start out and you make a mistake? Like, to me, I think part of learning how to be a stand-up is you got to fail. You have to fail. Yeah. It's a thing that really you're not going to learn how to do it.

Look, I'm looking at you both. I know you both enough to know about your material that you both have fucking died up there at some point.

Absolutely. You're both good enough. Wish I hadn't posted that. But here's the thing. That's what I was going to say. Everything you do, like I had to fight to get filmed

when I was a star. Now, you guys are getting filmed on the way to the gig. Yeah. So everything is there forever, all the time. The thirst for content in general is so strong that it's like, like you were saying, like every day part of your responsibility is like, do I have a clip to post? Do I have to thing to promote?

Because you're always at a club and you got to be making a noise or whatever. Part of the schedule. I have a Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Really? Usually I sit on Sundays and I take a few hours of my day and whatever shows I haven't clipped up yet, I'll clip those up. And then I kind of have a process where I tease my followers a little bit through my stories. I'll post clips to my stories. Those clips that get the most reactions are the ones that end up actually getting posted to the page. It's a lot of work for you guys. I think it's harder. I think it's actually easier in one way and harder in another.

There's more middle class, I think. Whereas it used to be superstar or probably nothing. And now there's like, you know. You can make 11. Yeah. I feel like 100 seaters around town. And I call it like my Eagles cover band tour. And I'm just like, you know, I go to like the B cities where I'm like,

Craig Ferguson isn't coming, you know. So I'm your best shot. Oh, no. I'm there. I'm just there Wednesday. Tacoma. But the whole thing as well is that what I was surprised at,

and this is actually something that I think Bette Midler said this, is that one of the most disheartening things about success is that not everyone is happy for you. And have you noticed as, because you're both moving forward, you both are, you've got traction.

I'm not going to lie, I'm mercenary enough to know, yeah, these two have got a future, so I'll put them on. I'm not without guile when it comes to this. He's hip, he's cool. Not happening. He's more hip replacement than hip. But it's kind of, it's an odd thing. Does it take that form? Have you become aware of it?

Do you start to feel isolated from your peers if you do well? Like if you're filling 100 seaters, before you fill the 100 seaters, the people who are still not filling the 100 seaters, do you pull apart? Do they get mad at you? Do they put mean comments on your posts? No, not that.

I think it's, like you're saying, it's sort of isolating in a way. Because when you're coming up, you're with your peers every night at the open mic. And then when you start hitting the road, it's like, well, we can't both be features in Tulsa. So he's in Tallahassee, I'm in whatever. And so, you know, you lose that sort of community. But I think stand-ups in general have common you know experience right so no matter where you go in the world you meet a stand-up and yeah you can become friends almost instantly because you have this shared experience of oh let me tell you

about my hell gig and let me tell you about this right yeah there is that and then this you know i think you'd be the change you want to see. Like I help out. I pay my opener as well. I share the money information with them to let them know. I think that avoids resentment is going like, here's what I made. Here's what I spent. Here's what I did.

You have got to cure yourself of that shit. That's a terrible idea. You know, I mean, to your point. I tell them the code to my safe. All of that. All of it. I actually have his bank account number. Wow.

He didn't give it to me, but I do have it. But no, I think, you know, yeah, I mean, it can be Iceland, period, just because you're on the road. You're in the hotel rooms. But I think the more I travel, the more friends I make on the road. Because now we're all doing the same thing in this kind of realm. I'll probably see you again in a couple of months, and it'll be like we just saw each other yesterday. And with Instagram and stuff, you can think about each other all the time.

Yeah, that's true. You just like the story, and you go, that's... Yeah, I remember my son saying this to me About a week ago, he's 23 and he said I'm meeting a friend of mine for the first time I'm like, oh Because they're friends He said, actually we're meeting for the first time Yeah, it's crazy

But I will say this though You do, at least Because I'm hyper aware I'm looking, I'm seeing When certain things have happened At least in my career in the past couple years at least because I'm hyper aware I'm looking I'm seeing you know you when certain things have happened at least in my career in the past couple years because I feel like I'm in that weird realm where

in a few years people are going to say it was an overnight success even though it's year 12 and I feel that happening now with some of the things I have going on and I think the first time I realized that everyone's not happy for you, even though we were just hanging out and kicking it, um, was when I did

JFL a few years ago. And I mean, I was over the moon. I was excited. And I just remember talking to people about it. And I just so happened to, I just glanced over at somebody and the look on his face. And from that day, I mean, we were very close. From that point forward, he would just kind of handle me with kid gloves. I'm like, what did I do? I'm just, well, that goes to the saying.

They're like, if you're talking to your friends about what you're doing and it's perceived as bragging, you might need a new group because everyone I know is doing big things. So it's not like I'm bragging.

I'm like, oh, well, okay. Well, how do I? He'll hook me up with 100 theaters. And the one thing is not the thing that make you like the JFL. I mean, it's not even there anymore. You know what I mean? Didn't they go bust or something? They went bankrupt.

Yeah. Oh, man. They stole all their money from their safe. I don't want to talk about it. I want to tell you something. This is like I'm definitely going to. I'm. I want to tell you something. This is like, I'm definitely going to, I'm the old guy talking to you now. Here's the way out of this shit.

Here's the absolute fucking currency of show business. This is the secret MacGuffin that will always keep you right. Money is not it. Success is not it. Artistic fulfillment is not it you know how you survive in this fucking game flattery keep telling other people how fucking

great they are all the fucking time have I mentioned how beautiful you are today just so the sock and shoe combo I really like it you took the cue right away surprised you're not wearing sandals well see you went back I really like it. You guys are sad. You took the cue right away. Doctors, the doctors. I'm surprised you're not wearing sandals with those.

Well, see, no, you went back. You went back. You didn't help it. That would have been gay. You failed back. What, they would have been gay to wear sandals? They would have been gay, yeah. I can't keep up. I used to be straight to wear sandals.

You got an earring in the wrong ear and you're fucked now. You know what's funny? I put that, the other day, I was sitting in the house with my wife and kids and my... We get it. You're actually straight. No, I never said I was straight. I said I was sitting with my wife and kids. I don't live with your fucking labels, man. Forget that.

But I'm sitting with my current family. And my youngest boy said, do you think you're... Because I used to have an earring in when I was a kid. And he said, do you think your ear would still take the earring? I went, I don't know. And my wife had an earring.

And she went, try this one. And I put it in and it went in straight away. And I went, I wonder if that's because the hole's still there or because I'm now so old and my ears are just spongy. You can actually put an earring anywhere on you right now and it'll just be just fine. I could be covered in them. I could be like...

Don't go to the TSA with this guy. I could be like covered in it. But that's what happens. You get spongy as you get older. What about the line? What about the line? George Carlin said this, who I think we can agree Carlin was a good comic. I like Carlin as a comedian.

He said the job of a comedian is to find where the line is and cross it deliberately. Yeah. Do you think that still applies? Absolutely. Yeah. But to our point with that, it's are you, at least for me, am I crossing this line intellectually? Because I'm not going to say something just to say it. You know, say something just for the shock value,

which we've talked about that. There is now a subset of that because it gets people so riled up on no matter what side of the fence you're on. I definitely think you should cross the line. One of my favorite jokes from my special is a bit called The New Jim Crow. And it's a very fun joke to tell because I can see people not knowing

where I'm about to go with this, being very uncomfortable. And then when that punch hits, it's like, oh. But it's still based in reality. So it's like, well, yeah, we do kind of need to get our shit together. But, you know, yes, cross the line. That's what makes things funny.

Yeah, you make people think in a way they haven't thought before. It's very rewarding. But it's, I mean, and I wonder if that's part of the nature of the draw for stand up because it's not just about making people laugh. There's got to be more. It's not there's got to be more. There is more. We say the things out loud that everybody's been through and it's like you ever and you

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Yeah. Now, I think Dane now is the best he's ever been. But he's not playing anything like the rooms he was playing 20 years ago. Madison Square Garden and stuff. Right. I think Dane might have been the first. he was playing 20 years ago. Madison Square Garden. Right. Because that was, I think Dane might have been the first. It was like MySpace or something.

That blew him up. And he was like, it was a super fashionable thing. Yeah, MySpace. MySpace. That's right. That was when the internet was powered by Steam. Grandpa, tell me what MySpace was like.

Well, what we used to do. We would have a topic. And if you took somebody out, that was it. That's it. There was like five people on the internet at the time. It was quiet but friendly. Couldn't be on the phone at the same time because it cut you off.

My dad used to put his jacket on to answer the phone. That's how old I am. Just like a phone on the wall. Yeah, it wasn't on the wall. Sure. Yeah, it was like one of those phones, you know, the Three Stooges phones. Yeah, but it's a different time. And so it's different now.

And what I think is the pressure on you guys is to succeed right now. And I kind of wonder, what's the end game? If you're a young comic right now, and you both are, what is there, because it used to be like, if I get the gig on Carson, if I get called to the couch when I'm on the show with Johnny Carson,

if I do the HBO special, if I do the, you know, there was always that thing. We were talking about it earlier, like there is no one thing anymore necessarily. So it's got to come, like the joy has got to come from within, right? So like, I just did a show for my dad in vegas and 20 minutes of it is about him and then when i get home my mom is like that was my favorite show

ever i'm like well yeah because i made fun of him for right the happy hour but but that gives me the joy of like oh that's gonna push me for a couple more days you know until i need a new source of motivation or whatever but well that's but that's but you're not living for the late night i mean this podcast is is my dream yeah sure i mean for me um my my perfect career would be if i'm not on stage i'm on set if i'm not on set i'm on stage stand-up was never supposed to happen I've I've I went to school for theater I love acting and it's crazy because all the roles I book are very serious I don't book many comedic roles so stand-up gives me this duality where I'm like

kind of like able to unleash so you know but you know we had the pandemic then you had the strike so it's like now that things are kind of picking up steam again it's like we're getting closer to make them. You had The Strike. So it's like, now that things are kind of picking up steam again, it's like we're getting closer to having more auditions, more bookings, and yeah, that's what I would love. That's what happened to me as well. I just stand up as a kind of way

to get my union card. That was the only reason I did it. It's usually the other way around. People are like, you need something to support your stand-up habit. Yeah, no, I never had, to me, in fact, late night was the pinnacle of this because i used to talk about everyone that i met or or a lot of journalists or a lot of people i met when i was doing late night they'd be like oh it's the dream job the

late night show and i'm like is it because to me it was like being a fucking realtor you know it was like well it was in town and it's it's not a it's not a great job, but you get your photograph on bus stops and it's okay. But I never wanted to be it. And if you don't want to be it and other people want it, they can get mad at you for that. It's like you're being disrespectful about it or something. Ungrateful. Yeah, and it's not that I was very grateful for it.

It changed my life. It was fantastic, but it wasn't aspirational for me. I didn't want to be a stand-up comedian. But I think that showed in your show. You're like, I don't care. I live up to your standards. Throw it away. Put a talking robot over there.

Who cares? That robot was fucking choice, by the way. That was a good robot. I mean, the robot was emblematic of how badly I failed at late night because I thought, I'm going to put this ironic robot voice in. You know what? You were ahead of your time. You got replaced by AI

before anybody else. Yeah, that's right. But the thing is it wasn't AI. It was actually a very talented human being called Josh Robert Thompson who was doing the robot. It wasn't a robot at all. And then he got mad at me for a while because he's like, well, I should be famous for doing the robot. Yeah, but it's the robot.

It's the robot, yeah. And we figured it out. Mr. Ed, too. He was always going, it's not the horse, it's me. Am I Wilbur from Mr. Ed? Fuck you guys.

Well, this podcast is about joy. You're going to be really happy Am I Wilbur from Mr. Right? That's what it is. Fuck you guys. Well. I can't believe. This podcast is about joy. You're going to be really happy after this. We've opened this up. You have. You know the thing about the podcast. Send you an invoice for the therapy.

Yeah. This is what this is. But you know what it is? It's actually, it is in a way, a kind of sorbet after a late night doing this. Because all I do here is talk to people I want to talk to. And if you do a show every night. You're talking to people you don't want to talk to. You're talking to people you don't want to talk to a lot.

Now it's work. Yeah, and especially if that show's a hit. And especially if it's on broadcast TV. Then you're going to be talking to a lot of people. Yeah, they probably shuffle in. Here, we're promoting this. All the fucking time. CBS, whatever, then you're going to be talking to a lot of people. Yeah, they probably shuffle in, here, we're promoting this. All the fucking time. CBS, whatever.

And you're like. And you know what? Sometimes you get surprised. Sure. You think, I don't want to talk to that guy. And then you're best friends forever. And then sometimes you think, this is going to be great.

And you're like, it's why I would never allow anyone from The Sopranos on the show while I was running. Because I was like, I love The Sopranos. Oh, you didn't want, because I was like, I love the Sopranos. You don't want to mess up your illusion. I don't want that in my head.

I get that. Yeah, I don't want that. I mean, you're going to do that now. You're running into people, you're in show business, you're running into people that you admire, and it's not always fun. No. I think there's something enlightening almost,

where you're like, I get to see a human side of them, and it's sort of less pressure on you to go like, some of my heroes are also fucked up people. Yeah. And they're just humans. I've had this experience with my parents too lately, where they've stopped. You've seen your parents are fucked up? Yeah.

And they've like stopped pretending that they have it all together. And so my mom and I were going for a walk and she's a little lonely, but she met this random lady on the street, walking her dog in the neighborhood. And she talked to her for 15 minutes. And then we walked away. I go, oh, you made a new friend. She goes, she's a little lonely, but she met this random lady on the street walking her dog in the neighborhood and she talked to her for 15 minutes and then we walked away. I go, oh, you made a new friend. She goes, she's weird.

I'm like, you just talk to her for 20 minutes. Like, you're weird. Yeah, we're all weird. So, yeah. I think that's the gift of stand-up though versus acting is because with stand-up comedy, there's only one way to get out.

You got to go to the clubs. Yeah. You got to get on stage. So, we end up on stage with, one way to get out you got to go to the clubs yeah you got to get on stage so we end up on stage with you know famous comedians because it's 11 o'clock at the store and they're trying to get they need to get something out real quick sure and so you know you're you're in these situations where you do meet them and to your point yeah it's like it humanizes them it normalizes them but it also what i find is it makes it very interesting like when my friends ask me about i I don't even,

I don't get into conversations with what I call civilians about comedians. Because if I'm like, I don't like this guy, I'm not saying I don't think he's funny. I'm telling you, I think he's an asshole because I've seen him be an asshole. And I don't want to ruin that for you because you want to go see this movie and I'll,

I'll sit through it. But in my mind, I'm like this guy cussed my friend out yesterday for stepping on the show. You know what I mean? Like, just something like that. I get that.

And I mean, that's kind of why I was so careful. But I never had the Sopranos on. And I never, I don't know if he would ever have done it, but I would never invite David Bowie on the show. Because I love David Bowie. And I was like,

if David Bowie turns out to be an asshole, what the fuck am I going to do? That's like 40 years worth of great music. You're probably upset about the Diddy News too. It would probably really hurt you to see one of your heroes taken down like that. He was never on the show either. There is a weird thing though.

And it is a thing that I think your generation is much more in trouble with than my generation was, is that you have to be a nice person, apparently. Like, you know, you, you have to be like, you, you have to be kind of, uh, it's, you know, people will say, have you met celebrity acts and say, and then one of the first things they'll say is, are they nice? Yeah. Like, why does that fucking matter?

Yeah. And I'll just be like, they're cool. Yeah. Like that's, that's my tell. If you know that I don't want to talk about this person and they're cool. And that's that's my tell if you know that i don't want to talk about this person they're cool and let's just move that's a stand-up language like oh they're a great guy you know it's like not funny but you know i mean listen you did what you needed to do yeah how do you feel about it how do you feel about it yeah that's if anybody asks you that you had a bad

night do you feel it went well oh jesus where do you think you lost them do you? You had a bad fucking night. Do you feel it went well? Oh, Jesus. Where do you think you lost them? Do you know what? Do you know what I've been starting the act with recently? I don't think you can do it until you're old. But I've been starting it with, you know, like I've been doing this for a long time. I've won some awards. I've made a little money.

So if it sucks tonight, it's not me. We were talking about that in Tacoma. Yeah. I think that was like the first time. Yeah. I started putting it in. You were like, fuck these people me. We were talking about that in Tacoma. Yeah. I think that was like the first time. Yeah. I started putting that in. You were like, fuck these people. I'm right. Like the mathematics is on my fucking side at this point.

You know, it's like, this sucks. You're 15 minutes into being an audience. You decide on me? Fuck you. Yeah. They have 10,000 hours of being a critic. Right. But that's, it's kind of, it's kind of odd though for

for you guys because people make up their minds about you in 45 seconds 30 seconds I mean yeah friend zone

I get it well just just with the idea of of you know doing stand up you do one joke that they don't like that's it

you're done with stand up you're as good as whatever set you just finished like yeah but that's a set I'm talking about like in the middle of a set do you like lose them yeah up you're as good as whatever set you just finished like yeah but that's a set I'm talking about like in the middle of a set

do you like lose them yeah you can lose them but the job is bring them back you know you fuck up you get you turn it around but you can't

because so much of what you guys are doing now I feel is the pressure is extreme maybe I'm wrong no no I think that

the pressure is on you to provide this free content on cell phones that uh for it just doesn't fucking sit right with me somehow but i don't know what you you have to be strategic with it because my thing is i don't i would hate for you to come to my show and you're like i've seen all this on her instagram i've seen all of these jokes on her instagram i've seen this all. So, you know, you just have strategies, you know, with how you post, what you post. Like, if I'm posting clips of jokes, you know,

it's usually something that's probably already been on my special. And I'm just, I've done this, I mean, just because I've done it on my special doesn't mean I'm not going to do it at the room in Torrance. You know, I'm going to do it in Torrance. I don't care, it's Torrance. And the jokes can evolve, too, for sure. doesn't mean I'm not going to do it at the room in Torrance. I'm going to do it in Torrance. I don't care it's Torrance. And the jokes can evolve too, for sure.

Every time I do a special, before it comes out, you're still doing the material and then a couple of weeks later, and I'm like, I should have put that in there. Reshoot, reshoot. I know. It's like,

what the fuck? I didn't even finish that joke. Well, they say like, great art is never finished, it is abandoned. That is right. That's the one that I hold on to. That'd make me feel better at night. Depressed me know who said that no actually michelangelo oh and he was and you were not funny no i was there i was there that was when my ears

were still you were the ladder boy for the chapel i know i was the model you were the model yeah i was the model i now i obviously it was a cold day, but other than that, I was... Was that your gay experience where you're touching the finger? That was the wrong one. If touching a finger made you gay, I gayed a lot more than I thought, but I gayed, I touched more than a finger. I don't know. Oh, you know what?

Is that the first time you've mentioned that on this podcast? No. Oh, okay. No, or even anywhere. Today. No, I did this thing. Because I used to do this thing when people, it was a couple of years back, pre, I guess, wokeness or something, people would use the word gay as a kind of slur.

Yeah, when we were kids, we were like, oh, that's gay. Yeah, yeah. And I didn't like it. It had nothing to do with homosexuality. Right. It was just like they were using it for like lame or something. And I didn't like it. It had nothing to do with homosexuality. Right. It was just like they were using it for like lame or something. And I didn't like it. So I used to do this bit in the act about, yeah, I gayed.

And I said, well, of course I did. I mean, how do you know you're going to like something until you try it? Like, I don't know if I like chicken fingers. Well, put one in your mouth and see how you feel. And it needs a little sauce. I know you'd be surprised needs a little sauce. I know you'd be surprised how quickly that sauce arrives.

But I digress. I'm here for it. It's getting a bit penis-y. I apologize. It's okay. It's alright. That's why you're here to balance it out. Yeah. I'm sorry. It got penis-y. That's not the first time I've said that.

Penis-y. I liked it. I like it. You know, give it a try. That's what I say. Guys, you guys, you've been awesome. It's been lovely talking to you. I am encouraged for the state of young comedy in America.

It's us. Yeah, it is. You're both really good stand-ups. You're great. You're going to get better and you're great now. And I love that you're feeling it and doing it. And it's impressive.

Well done. Thank you. Keep fucking going. And lay off the drugs. Nothing hard. Lay off the penis. That's going to be easier for both of you. meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life

of the notorious tori spelling as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life in marriage. I just filed for divorce. Whoa. I said the words that I've said like in my head for like 16 years. Wild. Listen to Miss Spelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Angie Martinez, and on my podcast, I like to talk to everyone from Hall of Fame athletes to iconic musicians about getting real

on some of the complications and challenges of real life. I had the best dad, and I had the best memories and the greatest experience, and that's all I want for my kids as long as they can have that. Listen to Angie Martinez IRL on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Guess what, Will? What's that, Mango? I've been trying to write a promo for our podcast, Part-Time Genius. But even though we've done over 250 episodes, we don't really talk about murders or cults. I mean, we did just cover the Illuminati of cheese.

So I feel like that makes us pretty edgy. We also solve mysteries like how Chinese is your Chinese food and how do dollar stores make money. And then of course, can you game a dog show? So what you're saying is everyone should be listening. Listen to part-time genius on the I heart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts.