Joy, a Podcast. Hosted by Craig Ferguson - Kate Micucci

Episode Date: June 18, 2024

Meet Kate Micucci, an American actress, comedian, and musician who is half of the musical comedy duo Garfunkel and Oates. Kate talks about Hollywood, family life, mental health and her experience with postpartum depression, splitting her life between LA and NYC and much more. She fills Craig in on what her experience micro dosing mushrooms has been like and closes the episode with amazing airplane story. Tune in and EnJOY! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I'm Angie Martinez, and on my podcast, I like to talk to everyone from Hall of Fame athletes to iconic musicians about getting real on some of the complications and challenges of real life. I had the best dad, and I had the best memories and the greatest experience, and that's all I want for my kids as long as they can have that. Listen to Angie Martinez IRL on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Guess what, Will?

What's that, Mango? I've been trying to write a promo for our podcast, Part-Time Genius, but even though we've done over 250 episodes, we don't really talk about murders or cults. I mean, we did just cover the Illuminati of cheese, so I feel like that makes us pretty edgy. We also solve mysteries like how Chinese is your Chinese food I mean, we did just cover the Illuminati of cheese, so I feel like that makes us pretty edgy.

We also solve mysteries like how Chinese is your Chinese food and how do dollar stores make money? And then, of course, can you game a dog show? So what you're saying is everyone should be listening. Listen to Part-Time Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Want to know how to leverage culture to build a successful business? Then Butternomics is the podcast for you. I'm your host, Brandon Butler, founder and CEO of Butter ATL. And on Butternomics, we go deep with today's most influential entrepreneurs, innovators, and business leaders to peel back the layers on how they use culture

as a driving force in their business. Butternomics will give you what you need to take your game to the next level. Listen to Butternomics on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When I do live gigs around the country, I'll be honest with you, I sell T-shirts and swag to the folks who are there, and then people always say,

can we get the swag without sitting through a whole evening of you? Well, it's happened. It's finally here. You can buy Craig Ferguson merch on the Craig Ferguson merch website, and you can buy it for yourself or someone you hate or someone you love. For more information and link to the web store, please go to thecraigfergusonshow.com. That's all lowercase, thecraigfergusonshow.com. My name is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast is Joy. I talk to interesting people about what brings them happiness.

Do you know who's on the podcast today? Well, of course you do because it's written down, but I'm going to do the introduction anyway. My guest today is Kate Micucci. She's part of Garfunkel and Oates. She's the Oates. And if you don't know who they are or what she does, then if you listen to the podcast or watch the podcast, you will find out.

On this podcast, my only rule is that I only talk to people I want to talk to. So apparently, that's you. I make the cut. Well, yeah, because. Well, thanks for having me. You were doing that very funny thing, the Garfunkel and Oates thing. Which, are you guys still doing that? We haven't been for a little bit.

We're right now working on other projects, like our separate projects. But I am sure we'll get back to it. I feel like it'll be really interesting because now we're both moms, and I feel like that'll be a whole other turn. In a cool way, probably. Yeah, sure. I mean, look, you grow up, you know, or you grow into something else. I mean, I think, we were just talking about this. I have two boys.

You have one boy? One boy, yeah. He's four. He's four? Mm-hmm. That's's lovely that's actually a good time yeah it's lovely because they're kind of a little bit better and is he preschool yet yeah he's in preschool he just had his first school play oh my gosh it was so he was a bird i was it was he yeah i love i've really been happy like i did not do great with the baby phase. I didn't realize that. Babies suck.

It's terrible. There's just nothing to do other than try to, like, feed it. It's just a lot. Yeah. It's a lot of work and nothing coming back. No. Gurgles and poo. Once they start talking, though, oh, my gosh.

I've been having, like, really, like, I love two. I love three. I've been having such a great time. Four is getting a little tricky because he's getting smarter. Like, you know, not everything. He doesn't believe everything. Yeah, but also they still watch the same movie over and over again. You can put him down, put on Ratatouille, walk away.

Yeah. My kid, he doesn't sit long because then he wants to play whatever he's seeing, which is kind of cool, but it's like a lot of pretend of whatever we just watched. Do you know a lot of people? Because you do a lot of animated movies. Do you know a lot of pretend of whatever we just watched. Do you know a lot of people? Because you do a lot of animated movies. Do you know a lot of... Is he watching anything that you're in? Yeah, a little bit.

Wait, you're Velma, right? Yeah, and Scooby-Doo. I've showed him some Scooby-Doo. I feel like maybe I should try that again now that he's a little bit older. But yeah, he'll know. Like, oh, I'll say, hey, that's me or that's my friend. Or, you know, but yeah, myudia is a voice on bluey and so that's been a very big deal but no i haven't

been in the world of young kid tv for a while so bluey is that's like the one right like that's like everybody's talking about it and watching it um but it's for a good reason it's actually a really really amazing show yeah see. See, I don't know. I mean, here's the thing. Did you ever get into music for your kid? You mean like playing music? Well, obviously you play music, but do you play kids music to your kid or grown up music? I play grown up music mostly.

Wise choice. Yeah. And I even, I put out a kid's album, which wasn't like, you know, the songs that i write that like come from me like are just maybe very kid centered even though i wouldn't like i'd say half the songs that are on the album were not written for children but they just were children okay with yes yeah and then the other half were written specifically but um but yeah so i i you know i play him i have played him those songs and he he played i do a show at the bob baker marionette theater and mikey uh plays along he plays the whole show an hour of him uh he doesn't actually play the guitar but he's got the guitar um but so yeah so i guess that's kind of kids music that he does

know but i'm you know i just like to show him cool songs like you know and he really is into like broadway and stuff like well because of what i play for him well but here's the thing though uh what were you into when you were a kid? Broadway. Like, big time. Right. And, you know, the Disney musicals, of course, which I guess also kind of align with Broadway.

And Billy Joel. Have you ever done Broadway? No, but I want to someday. That's my dream. Do Broadway? Yeah. Have you done it? Broadway?

No. I've been to Broadway. Yeah. I've seen a couple of shows but i haven't done anything i did the west end in london i did the uh uh the rocky horror show oh you did oh that's fun yeah how was it you know there's eight shows a week for a year dancing in high heels it's a it's a night out it's a job it's hard work yeah it it is. What kind of Broadway shows do you like? Do you like the kind of the Wicked's and all that kind of stuff?

Is that your thing? I mean, all of it. I love the big spectacles. I love the smaller, you know, like a play with three people. I love all of it. I'm such a nerd for all of it. Was that your thing when you were in school? Were you a theater nerd?

Was that the thing? I've always been a theater nerd. I wasn't in a lot of shows. I was really shy in school. Were you a theater nerd? Was that the thing? I've always been a theater nerd. I wasn't in a lot of shows. I was really shy in school. The fact that I've become an actress is, I think, surprising to anybody that knew me before I was 22. Where did you go? You were in Jersey, right? I am from New Jersey and then grew up mostly in Pennsylvania.

And then I went to a tiny school, like a little art school in Pennsylvania that was only a two-year school. I thought I was going to be a toy designer. And so I was going to school for that. Was it a tiny school that was not a lot of people or just a tiny school because you were quite thought I was going to be a toy designer. And so I was going to school for that. Now, was it a tiny school, not a lot of people, or just a tiny school because you're quite small and you could go there? Both things. No, it was probably a thousand kids. It was a really small school in a very small town,

but it had a great art program. What did you do then? Did you do performance art? No, I was doing fine art at the time. Ah, interesting. So what kind, were you painting? Mostly painting and getting into sculpture. And then through sculpture, started making puppets.

And I was really into Julie Taymor. You know, she did The Lion King. Yeah, The Lion King. That's right. Yeah. She started directing movies and stuff. Yeah, she's done a bunch of movies. And I really got into the way she makes puppets.

And I was trying to like do that on my own, kind of like learning from books and things. And then I thought, oh, maybe I do want to perform. it's like my secret wish you know but i didn't want to tell anyone it felt very like i think i was embarrassed to say that i wanted to be an actor you know no i understand that i felt the same way because i wasn't your but your family background was nothing like that no i mean my my parents were uh exposed my brother and i to the arts a lot and we were you know we were in the school plays and things like that and both my brother and I to the arts a lot and we were, you know, we were in the school plays and things like that. And both my brother and I competed with classical piano. So that was... You did classical piano?

Yeah. So here's what I'm thinking. Like classical piano. You still play piano? I do, but I lost, I've lost the chops, but I still play it and I enjoy it. Classical piano and sculpting. Mm-hmm. That's both, they're both very specific people I've met in in my life classical pianists and sculptors, and they're quite similar. Really?

Mm-hmm. How so? I feel like, I want to say this without being judgmental, but they can be quite difficult personalities. Interesting. Kind of emotionally, it's tortured too much. Yeah, maybe a little too much, but certainly shut down is the vibe that I've got over and over again.

Wow, interesting. You don't seem that way at all. Well, I wouldn't say I'm either. I mean, I love, like I dabble, and now the only thing I sculpt is when I go to the beach. But I was able to take a block and make something out of it. And that was to me really fun. Yeah.

And I love that. What's that? Is it Henry Moore who said to make a sculpture of a cow, you got a big lump of marble and just cut away all the bits that aren't cow. But he was pretty good at it. But his sculptures were kind of weird looking.

That's cool though. Did you study different artists in the sense that like, where were you drawing? Were you drawing stuff like Henry Moore? Were you drawing abstract stuff? Were you drawing? I was very much into just doing like realistic at that time. And oil painting and just trying to make, I was more in the real, like trying to make it look as real as possible,

which is the opposite of what I make now. But sometimes I think, oh, I should kind of go back to that. It would be fun. But I always just end up doing these more cartoony. I don't know if it's a matter of the time I have to make things now, which is much smaller. Well, you have a young child, so you're going to be working mostly in macaroni and ketchup

for a while. Yeah, I feel like my time is limited, so I go, go, go when I draw or paint. And so the things I make are quicker, but I feel like it's really fun to just kind of... So how did it go from, like, what did your parents do for 11? My mom is a piano teacher, although I did not take lessons from my mom I went to a very strict woman She was from Germany She was a wonderful lady

Mrs. Smits You went on to play piano immediately I was very scared of Mrs. Smits growing up And she was just the most wonderful lady And I owe so much to her But I would get stomach aches before every lesson Because I was like oh i hope i did it right i hope i did it right yeah um my mom was teaching piano to pay for our

lessons basically okay um and so she would also sit with us during practice and you know where she'd be like cooking in the kitchen going count out loud or you know uh and that wasn't right do it again like yeah then what'd your dad do he's an electrician but my dad is very creative and um he's just got a real creative i think he he is an artist there's no doubt but um he so i think you know we were always like doing very creative things around the house and he would make you know he would make toys with us which i guess may be partly why i wanted to do toy design but um you know is that what you finished when you were doing art school did you finish in toy design or were you kind of got the green fine rail i i was gonna go to fit in new york which at the time was the only toy design program in the country i don't know what that is oh the fashion

the fashion institute oh fashion yeah sorry and uh and then but i was very shy and i went and looked at the school and i just was like i don't know if i'm ready to go to new york city even though i grew up 90 minutes from there i was just, I don't know if I'm ready to go to New York City even though I grew up 90 minutes from there. I was just like, I don't know. And then I was putting myself through college which is, you know,

very expensive. Did you have a job? It was small jobs here and there and then a lot of financial aid and figuring out. Waiting tables and stuff like that? I never did that.

I'm not that coordinated. I felt like, I don't know that I'd be the best. You could play a musical instrument. Yeah. I guess I could wait tables. I was always tables I always taught I taught piano myself to make money

or babysat a ton and I taught art also to little kids you babysat and you still went ahead and had a baby anyway? yeah it took me the amount of time from babysitting to actually it was a good gap I put myself through school

I wasn't sure if fit going to new york was the right move so i went to hawaii and i lived with my aunt and uncle for three months and what did you do in hawaii i i helped them no i didn't i i'm very i was very good uh i don't know what good means i mean now like whatever i i don't i don't do i don't know what good means. I mean, now, like, whatever. I don't smoke only because I'm crazy on marijuana. I don't do well. No, me too. Listen, I did all the drugs, but marijuana was the one that actually had the worst effect on me.

I'm not good on it. I hate marijuana. Yeah. I hate it. I don't like it either. I like mushrooms, but I've only done it a few times. I was microdosing mushrooms. Here, I'm getting sidetracked.

No, no, that's quite interesting because I want you to tell me what microdosing is because I don't understand it. I don't really understand it either. I had really bad postpartum depression after having a son. Oh, that's the angels. Really bad. And it was also during lockdown, during the pandemic. So it was kind of extra. Looking back, I don't know what, you you know where there was probably both the depression from you know having what does it feel like postpartum depression because i i i'm i mean i know that it's

it's a real problem for a lot of women and it's not really talked about much yeah and i mean it is a little more now but it is more and more but i think i have this theory that it's such a terrible thing to go through that when you're out of it, it's almost like, oh, I don't want to even think about it. You don't want to talk about it. Yeah, I hear you. I was talking to a friend of mine who's a playwright and she had it as well. And I was like, when I was in it, I was like, oh, I want to make art about this

or I want to make a book about this or maybe a book of cartoons about this or something. But then the minute I felt good again, I was like, oh, I don't want to think about it. And I think that happens to people where it's like, I don't want to think about it. And I think that happens to people. I mean, there are some amazing books about it, thankfully. What forms does it take, though? Because I've heard stories like women have thoughts about hurting their baby. Yeah, and that's true. Weird, shameful thoughts that they don't know how to cope with and stuff.

Is that right? Yeah, and I think a lot of times I feel like those horrible news stories we read about, you know, bad things happening. I can go, I now see like, oh, that woman was dealing with postpartum. Sure, yeah. But I was very fortunate that I was not in, you know, I didn't want to, well, this was the thing. I went to, I knew something was wrong because I just couldn't stop crying. Like just deep, deep sadness. That's a sign sadness and i said to my doctor i need i need help and um and so i went to a specialist that specialized in postpartum she asked me all these questions

and uh and then she said hi she said oh do you want to harm your baby i said no that is not something in my mind i'm just very deeply deeply Like everything. Like I was washing bottles in the sink and I was crying because they were drowning. Like it was just irrational thoughts. And so, and she said, oh no, you just have the baby blues. It'll go away. And I was, I remember thinking,

and I got like, no. That sounds a little dismissive. Yeah. And I remember thinking, that's not right. That isn't the right thing. But I was also so, like you're kind of just like down,

you know, like I kind of was like down you know like i kind of was like oh okay so i walked out of there with just that advice which was not anything that's garbage and um and then we went into lockdown with the pandemic two days later and so i never i should have sought out help through you know something online or something but i was just it was so much happening at once you know the world was was a, it was so much happening at once. You know, the world was. It was a strange time. It was bad timing, but I, as far as me getting the right help and being able to get out of it. So how did you get out of it?

I did brain spotting, which is that, and that was over Zoom because of the pandemic. And it took me a year, over a year to get myself to get help but then it's where you look it's it's similar to emdr which is more of that fingers thing and the yeah but it's it's something it has something to do with rewiring the brain but it's all visual and so i'd be like looking at the wall and listening to these this music in headphones and then the therapist over Zoom would say, okay, now I want you to think about this, think through this. Now put your eyes a little to the left. And I don't know how this, it sounds like magic or something, but somehow by looking at spots on the wall and listening to this thing and walking through my

thoughts, somehow it rewired the kind of traumatic experiences that i was had dealt with you know with having a baby it was a traumatic birth all these things and so i kind of walked through all the bad stuff and i remember the therapist saying that if if you do it right and it really like if you get it you know if you take to it it'll be like six sessions and then you'll feel good and it was it was six and maybe her saying that good. And it was. It was six. And maybe her saying that is part of it. Sure. But it really was. Six sessions. As long as it works, it works. It was so helpful.

And then I started microdosing mushrooms. And I can't quite explain that. So what is a microdose of mushrooms? Because for me, the only time I took mushrooms was like in a pub. Yeah. And I bought them from a guy that looked like Charles Manson. And that's probably not microdosing. No.

I mean, it's such a small amount. And I feel like it's the thing that everybody's doing these days. But you don't get high. You don't even really feel. You don't feel it. It's just each day. I do a tiny dose every three days. And for some reason, it kind of works as a lifting mood.

Like an antidepressant or something? And so i did that for a few months and that i think that coupled with the uh brain spotting really kind of lifted me out of whatever i'm dealing with had you ever done therapy before that had you ever experienced like because i look the reason i bring up i've i've done all of that and i and i i know a lot of performers in fact most people i know are performers. Yeah. And it feels like it's quite common for folks like us to get kind of trapped in dark alleyways a little bit in your head. Did you get it before the baby?

I mean, I think, you mean as far as depression goes? Yeah. I've been very lucky. I've gone to therapy, you know, throughout the years here and there with different people. It's almost like dating, like trying to find the right person that understands you. Oh, for sure.

The wrong therapist is a bad relationship. And and definitely so I think I was getting better at going like I don't know that this person's for me and then finding the right person for a while or you know when I made the switch once I met the woman who was going to help me with the postpartum that I've stuck with her but I feel like yeah I don't. I feel overall I'm very fortunate. I'm going to knock on wood. That I usually am a pretty up person. So I think that's why when that took me down. And I've had moments, of course, like in any person. Well, you're a human being.

Yeah. But that was like a dark, dark place to go. But then, you know, luckily, I think, truly, it is weird to say, but mushrooms helped a lot. The Craig Ferguson Fancy Rascal Stand-Up Tour continues throughout the United States in 2024. For a full list of dates and tickets, go to thecraigfergusonshow.com slash tour. See you out there. See you out there. Back in 1969, this was the hottest song around.

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You know what? People take drugs because they make them feel better. And I sometimes wonder if we don't, in the way to, in the desire to save people from the terrible dangers, that you forget to go, well, they take them because they're not feeling good. Yeah. You know, like I have a friend of mine right now who I'm trying to talk to about his alcohol intake. And he said, I realized I was self-medicating with alcohol. I said, well, if alcohol is the medicine, what do you think the illness is? Because there's an illness called alcoholism that alcohol is kind of the medicine for alcoholism, but it kills you.

Yep. You know, so there's other medicines for it. I just wonder, it's kind of like, it's a funny thing, the old brain, especially if you go through a huge physical trauma, like having a baby. And you said like the baby was, it wasn't an easy time either.

Yeah, it was an emergency C-section. And the minute he was born, his lung got torn. I think it was a mistake on the, and looking back, it's so hard to know exactly what happened. But because of the C-section, they needed to get the goo out of, like, if it, yeah, you know. And so when they did that, I think from what I was told, they did it too hard. Did they say goo? You know, the goo. Yeah, the medical term.

Get the goo out there. Stop. So when they did that, they tore his lung. And so he ended up in the NICU. And thankfully, it all worked out and it healed itself. But they were talking to us about surgery. You know, in the scheme of things, he was there for four days. It wasn't, you know, but it was still traumatic.

Yeah, of course it is. So there was that, you know know that beginning that was just so kind of rough that's a rough start but uh but anyway i yeah so i the therapy was very very helpful i i'm pro therapy i think anybody talking to somebody that has no attachment to the people in your life is like super helpful yeah i totally agree i i've never really understood why people feel threatened by yeah like you should talk to your priest and you go well that's therapy isn't it it's like do you have a religious faith is that something that you or anything like that you know i feel like i'm a spiritual person i'm very open to anything and i love like i i i grew up like catholic light you know like and i think the biscuit turns into

jesus but the wine doesn't or what just like christmas and easter catholic like okay we'll go you know i did i did my uh like i did my communion and then i came around for the confirmation and i was like i'm not into this and my parents like that's cool um but but there's parts of it like i like the music i love the music in church you know yeah yeah ceremony is great yeah it's another way of bringing people in exactly that's what you want right i ceremony is great yeah it's another way of bringing people in that's what you want right i feel like there's there's little bits of things that i think i can take from different religions and be like oh that's cool like i yeah um i i've dabbled in in nicha and buddhism as well and i feel like that's been really you know whenever i actually

go and stick with it for a while it's pretty amazing talk to me about that because i don't know much about that to be honest it's like i feel like i've sort of done my own it for a while. It's pretty amazing. Talk to me about that because I don't know much about that. To be honest, it's like I feel like I've sort of done my own thing for a while. I used to babysit for this family who was very into it and they would have meetings at their house and I would just go. I don't even know what Buddhist meeting would do. I mean, just like meditate? Yeah, well, kind of you go around and talk about what you're chanting for or how your week's going. And it was a small little group and then everyone would chant for like an hour. And at first I was like, oh, I don't know that. Like I just moved here.

I was like, that feels very like California, LA or something. And then I started to do it and I loved it. And it was great and very helpful at a time when I was like, you know, 24 and trying to figure out my life. Is that when you came here? I moved out here when I was 21. And then I graduated two years later. That's such a young woman. If you had met me at 21, you would have thought I was 14.

I looked so little. I hadn't, I was like, I had never dated. I was like, didn't know how to drive on a freeway. I was. And were you safer? Who was looking after you? I was living in a hotel near the airport. But it was with all the transfer students.

Then I went to Loyola Marymount University. Oh, yeah. So I didn't learn how to be a toy designer. I decided to go to Loyola Marymount instead. And that's when I was living in the hotel, which was super fun. And I didn't have a car. I had a skateboard. If you met me, I would have thought it was very little. So then I graduated,

I was very lost, trying to figure out how to make money, kind of wanted to do acting, not sure how to get into it. And then I start chanting with this family and it was, it brought good, I don't know, it was just very nice. And it felt like centering. No, but I've been wanting to get back to it. So who knows, maybe I'll start again. Let's do another. Yeah, ready? I don't really know how to chat. I always get a little embarrassed with that kind of thing as well.

Like if you're in a yoga class or something, and they start doing things, I'm like, all right, knock it off. I got to go. Yeah, I know that feeling. Yeah. I kind of stopped going to the meetings for that sake. I was like, you know, I'll just do my own thing. Yeah, I don't mind being quiet. If everybody's

quiet, do you know much about the Quakers? No, tell me. The Quakers I'm quite interested in. I don't know an awful lot about it, but I'm beginning to kind of sniff around it a little bit just because I'm fascinated by all these things. I don't have a religious affiliation, but the Quaker thing kind of interests me because they have meetings like a meetings and stuff like that but they you can just go to a quaker meeting and not say anything and it's for an hour or something and if nobody says it and that's it you'll just sit quietly in a circle i feel like there might be a lot of information in that somehow. That feels cool to me somehow, and I don't know why.

I mean, I don't know if you have to have words for it. So right now, if you ask me right now, what are you? I'd say I'm thinking about becoming a Quaker for a while. And you're oats. You're oats and Garfunkel and Oats. Quaker Oats. I'd be Quaker Oats. We could be Quaker and Oats.

Garfunkel and Oates? Quaker Oates? I'd be Quaker Oates. We could be Quaker and Oates. The idea of Garfunkel and Oates was like taking the two secondary people from Simon Garfunkel and Hall and Oates, right? But then we became great friends with John Oates. In fact, I love him. They've just split up. Yeah, pretty crazy. After, what, 50 years or something? A long time, yeah. Which is kind of hard to imagine.

What's even the point? I don't know. I don't really, I have no idea, but I do know John. I love John. He's such a wonderful guy. He's a great, great guy. And he's been always so supportive of us. You know, we started Garfunkel and Oates and very soon after, this is MySpace days, he wrote us a MySpace message and he said, you owe me a beer for using my name. So when I come to your next show, you know, and then we were like, what? So we got so excited.

And then Ricky and I ended up opening for him when he was doing some solo stuff in Agora Hills. It was so fun. So when he's Oats, does he just go out as Oats? Yeah, he played a couple of Hall & Oates songs, but he also did a lot of his solo stuff. All right, okay. I think it must be, this is the thing, because you've been in a double act.

I've never been in a double act. It's a weird kind of relationship to be in, I think. It's like a marriage, you know? Yeah, I've talked to a lot of different people who've been in them, and sometimes it's not so much fun. It goes through, I mean, are you guys friends? Yeah, we're definitely friends. And I feel like, um yeah i feel like that that those touring years that we had like bonded us for and we also made a tv show it's only one

season but it i have so many tv shows i only made one season yeah it's but there's no shame in something that you know that would maybe like tear you apart in some way no it made us so together like we we you know we have so much life experience together how did you come together where did you meet we met just through mutual friends we were both going to acting class at leslie khan at the time this is like early maybe like 2004 2005 and um and and i knew you know when you meet someone and you like have this feeling almost like dating where you're like, I'm going to know this person. When I first met Ricky, I had that feeling.

I was almost like dizzy. This person's going to be important in my life. I got really excited. And then we kind of met. So I had known her a little bit through there. And then we had a mutual friend in Doug Benson. And so we both just ended up at Doug's show and ended up hanging out afterward and then that really solidified like oh we're gonna be friends and so we were friends for

about a year before before you started working yeah and then when we started Ricky had an idea for a short and she wanted to turn it into a musical right and so we wrote a couple songs and it just like you know when something clicks it's just right we just had this like beginning that felt so exciting and like just kind of almost like, not that it was out of our hands, but it felt like, wow, we're doing something and things are happening. No, I think out of your hands is a good way to put it. It's that Jungian thing of the collective unconscious is feeding whatever you're doing. Yeah, you kind of can't deny the universe when all of a sudden things are happening. It's like you get to hold the phone for a minute.

It's kind of interesting. I love that idea. In that environment when you guys met, because I feel like your generation of performers is, I've said this on the show before, to people of your generation of performers, but you seem to be a little more collegiate than when I was coming through.

It was a little more kind of rivalry and backbitey and kind of a little more swimming with sharks-y. Am I wrong about that? Do I have an idealized version of what you guys were doing? No, I think there was a really, it's almost not, you can't really know about it until the moment has passed, but in that moment

of like those early days of UCB and all of these performers, when I think about like, you know, who we were with and who, and also who was so supportive of us.

I mean, I think, and that group is still, still exists, but like in the early days before people were, Scott Ackerman was in here earlier today.

I mean, he's one of the people that brought everyone together. And yeah, Sarah Silverman was like, you know, so supportive. Like there were so many women that were like, come on, like cheering us on, which was very cool. And yeah, we were, I mean, we're definitely kind of a little bit in the right place at the right time, but also working our butts off at the same time, you know? Sure, but it's fun when you're young. So much fun.

Yeah. Like there was nothing else I'd want to do, you know? Yeah, no, I remember it myself. It was like, was it a party environment as well? Were you guys like, I mean, I guess you said you microdosed mushrooms at one point. Oh my God, that's like the craziest. Like as far as, if Ricky and I on the road, we'd always joke, people would always be like, hey, you want to come out afterward?

And we'd be like, we're going to play Solitaire on our iPads. Oh, thank you. But there was something about conserving energy and, you know, being good for the next day. But neither of us are, you know, like partiers at all. No, I think that's quite interesting. I remember talking to Kristen Chenoweth. I love her.

She's great, right? And there's a Broadway royalty for you. And I remember talking to her about it. I mean, she's a very open and very lovely person. And I was talking to her about her life off of the stage. And she said something that's always kind of stuck with me, which was, what I do requires rest. I was like, oh, okay.

So when I'm hanging around a hotel room like a slob all day before I go on stage I'm like what I do requires rest I gotta feel like I got some energy for this I gotta focus on it when I go and do it is that that's the kind of the way you felt on tour definitely I mean there was so much just like, just chilling before the show because and in the early days when we were just kind of building our audience and we were doing two shows a night, two shows Friday, two shows Saturday, meet and greets in between. And then one show Sunday. And that's like, by Monday. I still do that. Yeah, you do. It's a lot. It kind of does require you to just stay in your hotel during the day and watch bad movies on TV. And what's bad about it as well is, I mean, I just came from San Francisco and it was a beautiful weekend

and I love San Francisco and it was sunny all day, but I was doing two shows at night. And I was like, if I go out and do it, these shows are going to suck because I'm going to be tired. I totally understand that. And I really want to go out, but I really better not. But of course, I'm almost 62 years old, so I really have to hold it down a little bit.

But it's about protecting yourself and your energy and also being there for your audience. So yeah, you should never feel guilt about staying in your hotel. Good, I won't. And coming from a Catholic, I think it's good. When a Catholic tells you you shouldn't feel guilt. Oh God, I'm filled with guilt. Well, of course you are. Good, I won't. And coming from a Catholic, I think it's good. When a Catholic tells you, you shouldn't feel guilt. I'm filled with guilt. Of course you are. It was programmed in early. It's like you're an original sinner right away. Before you even got here, you were in trouble. So what happened when, did you spend a lot of that time? Was that when

you met your husband or did you guys get together later on? I met my husband, well, I mean, we were, Ricky and I were touring for gosh i don't know how many years i don't even i couldn't even tell you probably 2009 to you know 18 but i met my husband in 2017 we just met on an app it's a very like boring story i love this no tell me about it because that all like i i've been with my wife way before apps and even smartphones, I think, almost. But that whole thing passed me by. Yeah.

I'm very glad to say, actually, I think. I worry about that as I look at my own sons growing up, and I think that's how people meet. It is how people, yeah. And did you have a little profile? Oh, yeah. Well, I had never done the app thing, but then Raya came along, which is like the Hollywood app. Raya's the like the, you've got to be good looking or rich, is that it?

I mean, I don't know what it is. It's, I think it's, I don't know what, how it works even. It's changed a bit. But at the time it was like, oh, it's kind of this exclusive thing where if you're an actor or, you know, like. Oh, so if you're famous, you can go on it. And then it wouldn't be... Nobody's going to like take your thing and embarrass you on Twitter by saying you're on...

Yeah, I think that was the... The idea? I don't know. Yeah. And so I felt like, okay, I could try this. That sounds exciting. And I loved it. I had a great time on that app.

And then, you know, and I would kind of like go on a bunch of dates and then I'd kind of like take a break from it and go back. But I think like maybe a year into being on the app, I met Jake, my husband, and I was his first Raya date. And I remember saying, I am sorry. Like, if you want to keep dating, you should because there's like, you know, there's a lot of people out there. But no, we got serious pretty quickly.

But no, we got serious pretty quickly. We moved in together very quickly and got a dog and, you know, got married a year into the, a year to the day of meeting, we got married. But I was also. That's pretty good. Yeah. I mean, it was, I dated a lot and it was, you know, it's that cliche of like, oh no, this feels right. And I also, you know, he, he knew I wanted to have a kid.

And so we're like, okay, like clock is ticking. You know, the cliche, every cliche of that. It's only biology. It is. I mean, it's not, I mean, was it that thing Sarah Silverman says? It's rather lovely. We're all just chemicals, sweetie. Yeah, that's true.

And, you know, if your clock is ticking, it really is. It's a real thing. I mean, it's like, it sounds kind of sexist, but is it? You know, I mean, what age were you when your baby was born? I was just a few months shy of 40. So, yeah. It's fine, but it's, I guess, in terms of human history. Yeah, totally.

I would have had a grandkid. Yeah. Well, I look at that now. I mean, like here in LA, I'm 62. I could still be having kids as a dude. But in Scotland, I'm grandpa. I mean, it's a different thing. It is. And I think our town is definitely, you know, everybody delays their having a family for their dreams, you know. Everybody delays their having a family for their dreams, you know? Right. I think, you know, so I, among my friends, I was one of the first to have a kid of my friends, like, my age, which, you know, was probably way late for the, compared to the friends in my hometown.

Right, yeah, no, I get it. The thing is, though, about, because the real lesson, I think, of, I mean, I was 39, so I was about the same age as you when my first kid was born when he came along it didn't happen right away but within six months I realized that the movie that I had been in up until that point was all about me yep and suddenly there had been a change and now I was an extra in the movie that I used to be starring in it's really hard isn't it it's a it's a change especially if you have the look i i don't think i'm cursed with too much of an ego but it's bad i mean it's as bad as anybody has everyone has an ego everyone and i i guess

i was like i resisted it a little bit yeah um how was it for you i think well that and then the world stopped at the same time so it was a weird it was like okay well nobody else is really doing anything right now except for zoom shows like it was like i didn't feel like i was missing out oh god doing comedy on zoom doesn't work oh you can't it was the worst i was like are they laughing um but then but i think it's harder to have kids when you're older for a lot of reasons but it's like i i got to experience like kind of being this free free person doing whatever i wanted really like for a long time yeah i think people who have kids when they're younger for good or bad like it's just that's just part of their life then where it's

like whoa whoa i was just totally free. No, it comes another way because like my, my wife is 20 years younger than me. So she was much younger when she had, right. So she was much younger.

And so what happened was that like now our youngest is 13. Okay. And, and he's kind of like doing what teenagers do and kind of pulling away

a little bit. I mean, he's still, you know, but he's pulling away a little bit. And now she's in this position of having been dealing with young. Because when she met, I had a, when we met, I had a three-year-old. Okay. Right.

And so she, I was like, you know, here's your minivan. You know, you're in or you're out. I don't have time for this. She jumped in. Yeah. She was like, I'm in. Let's go. And we're still together.

And then 10 years later, we had another baby. Or nine years later, we had another baby. And actually, six years later, we had another baby. So she's been dealing with that for a long time. But now she's in her 40s, and now she has some time. Is it exciting? I think it is. But I think it's like change, even if you want it, is tricky.

Yeah. I mean, it's tricky. It's a weird adjustment. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like I'm still trying to figure, I don't know if I ever will, like how to like schedule my day and then still be able to pick up my kid at school. Like it's just the time is so limited.

It is. And also just when you get used to it, it changes again. Yeah. Like, it's just, the time is so limited. It is. And also, just when you get used to it, it changes again. Yeah, right. But, change is the law of God's mind and resistance to it

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I said the words that I've said like in my head for like 16 years. Wild. Listen to Misspelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. get your podcasts. How do you do with professional ambition and the torment of that given if desire is suffering, do you feel fulfilled as an artist or is that because LA is a very strange place for that kind of thing. It is. And I feel like, I mean, we're at a point right now where I think everyone's kind of

in this like weird giant question mark. But I love making. I feel like my fulfillment comes from even making something small and then I get excited. Like if I write a song or if I paint a picture, it doesn't take much to get me excited about creating. Like I just naturally create a lot of things. Right. When I'm like, you know, like I said, in that dark time, I wasn't making too much, but, but like when I'm feeling good and I'm making things like I just get, I'm happy, you know,

it's like, and so, uh, I mean, there is the matter of paying the bills, you know, I'm, I'm someone who's, you know, I've been fortunate that I can make a living as an actor, but it's not, you know, I'm not, it's a day job, you know? I'm working hard to figure it out. People have unrealistic ideas about what performers make, particularly in this town. I remember going back home

and running into a kid from high school and he was like, hey, you must live in Malibu in a mansion. And I was like, no. But I live in an apartment in Hollywood and I have a roommate. Yeah, you know who lives in Malibu in a mansion? People who work in the executive positions.

Exactly. But I will say, like, it's really, for me, you know, I just like creating things. And if it's, you know, creating things with friends, making little cartoons, like, that's where I'm not great at putting it out there in the world to figure out, okay, how do I turn this little book I made into something, you know, like, I'm trying to be better at that. But the joy of making something is, like, I don't know, I'm very fulfilled by it. So, and I guess in a way that's lucky because I'm not, you know, obviously, I love acting and I love, you know, when I get a job and I get to be on set, it's so much fun. But, you know, those things sometimes can be months apart from each other for me. Yeah, me too. I mean, it's funny.

I was just talking to Scott Ackerman about this because I asked him if he did any acting. He said maybe once a year. Yeah. And I said I'm the same and we both admit it because it's about as much as we get asked. Yeah. It's a stranger time. It's weird as much as we get asked. It's a stranger time.

It's weird, though, as well, because acting in particular is an odd one for me. I have trouble taking it seriously. I feel like, and you were on a show, in my mind, what was such a great time for sitcoms. The Drew Carey show was so great. It was. It was. It was such fun to do yeah but it also was really boring was it yeah and it was really fun and if I remember it the way that

you know sometimes I remember it as being really fun but if I remember how it actually was it was really boring a lot of the time and because it's acting there's a lot of waiting around yeah there is that I wrote three four movies while I was doing that time. There's so much downtime. Yeah, I was just in my trailer. And there wasn't Instagram, so I couldn't film my day with garbage. Isn't that great, though, that you actually wrote movies instead? Yeah, it's another thing I was talking to Scott about.

I wonder how much art is not getting past the starting point because of social media. I think about that for myself all the time. Like, wow, what would I have made with the time I have scrolled? I don't, like, it's kind of messed up to even think about, like, you know. But I think everybody, it's, you know, it's that, it is another drug. It's like, oh, what's happening? It's time to fight the power, though, I think. I think that we have to stop saying that it's cool.

Yeah. We have to stop saying that. We have to stop participating in our own demise. It's garbage. It's a fucking toilet wall. And we got to stop. We got to fight the fucking thing. A little more punk rock with this shit.

Put it down and pick up a fucking analog something. A paintbrush. I literally just bought three new paintbrushes today. Good! I'm excited. That's good. Me too. That means you're fighting the power. Fight back. I think, yeah. I try to do a thing where it's like the posting ghost. Where it's like

I put it up but then I don't look at anything else. But of course I'm not great at it. I think that's kind of like saying if you're an alcoholic I'll just have one. Yeah, totally. Or I'll just have a shandy or, you know, I don't think that, I don't think it's possible. Not for me anyway, I've tried it and I can't.

And the thing is, I feel like the addictive nature of social media, I don't know if it's like this for you, but I think it might be the most addictive thing I've come across. Yeah, I mean, we're- I don't know if it's like this for you, but I think it might be the most addictive thing I've come across. Yeah. I mean, we're- That fucking Instagram, man. I mean, Jesus. What the fuck with that thing? It'll just suck hours out of your day. And it's, you know, you see people on the streets.

It's like, you know, we're all kind of just looking at this thing in our hand. And it's, you know, it's, it's, and you know, what else trips me out is then the ads that pop up. We were like, I was just talking about that. How does that happen?

I don't know. Are you, are you a conspiracy theorist a little bit? I mean, I think they're fun. I don't, I don't know that I like, yeah,

I love to hear about, I don't know. I don't know who's listening, but to this, no, no, I mean, to our phones, but, uh, yeah, To this? No, no, I mean to our phones.

But yeah, the weirdest one for me was that I was juggling oranges by a pool. And then a friend of mine... Can I just stop you? Uh-huh. Why were you juggling oranges by a pool? Was it something to do with entertaining children? No, it was just that there was an orange tree by a pool. And then I was like, let me juggle, as one would.

And then maybe five minutes later, our friend goes, oh my gosh, and he shows us an ad, and it was a bowl of oranges sitting by a pool. And we were like, what? What is that? Like, maybe it's coincidence, but... It's not coincidence.

It's weird. It's not coincidence. I can't believe... That's just not possible. Yeah. I don't coincidence. I can't believe it. That's just not possible. Yeah. I don't know. I think that, but you know, in 1984, in the book 1984, when they talk about the telly screens and they're everywhere.

And I think now we just volunteered for it. Yeah. They don't even have to put up the screens to observe us. We observe ourselves. We walk around telling on to put up the screens to observe us. We observe ourselves. We walk around telling on each other all the time. I wonder about, you escaped this just, I think, but young performers coming up now, when they make mistakes, it's forever.

It's forever. It is. How do they learn? I don't know. I feel for that. I feel like, yeah, it's... How did they learn? I don't, I don't know. I feel for that. Like, I feel like, yeah, it's a scary thing. And putting, you know, putting thoughts out there, putting jokes out there, like the, the freedom of that feels, it feels very scary, you know?

It's too much. I mean, it's like whenever there were good TV shows, I think they always had good producers and a good producer. Like I had a really good producer in late night. His name was Peter LaSalle and he had like produced Johnny Carson for 35 years. And he did David Letterman's transition over to CBS from NBC and all that. And so he was, he was a great producer and not for what he didn't tell me what to do. He would tell me what not to do.

Like I would say a joke, that's a great joke. And he goes, it's a great joke, but do me what to do. You tell me what not to do. Like I would say a joke as a great joke and he on it's a great joke, but you want to do it. There's going to be a said he had this phrase which I loved. I think people on social media, me and Brad don't post anything on generic bullshit, but the he would always say there's always another joke. There's always another joke. And I get angry at him because I didn't want that to be true. I wanted like to find that, you know, to be more kind of like, I'm an artist and this is pure.

And they go, well, if you're an artist and it's pure, then you probably wouldn't be working at CBS. Don't fucking lie to yourself. You know, you're, you're, it's like you're working on a TV show. It's kind of strange. Do you censor yourself? You know, I don't know that I... Do you need to?

I mean, I feel like where my place of making things, especially like, you know, the things I'll post these days is like, I'll do a painting and I'll like speed it up, you know. Right. It's, you know, there's nothing that I don't think anyone's going to get mad about. Who knows? I mean, people get mad about everything. Well, here's the thing. It's all a matter of time. Say you post a picture, like you do a painting of a boat.

Yeah. Right. So here's a boat on the water and you speed it up. It's a nice picture of a boat on the water. It's oil on canvas. It's beautiful. But unbeknownst to you, a news story has just broke about a boat that sank and people were drowned.

And now your boat picture goes up. It has nothing to do with you, but now you're an insensitive monster. Yeah. I mean, I've seen versions of that. Of course, it happens all the time. nothing to do with you but now you're an insensitive monster yeah that i mean i've seen versions of that of course happens all the time yeah and and it's like but that's not what i was doing but because the zeitgeist has it's a headless monster it just yeah it goes everywhere so i'm trying to bring back your depression. Oh, gosh. Oh. We can bring that back in many different ways.

Oh, God. No, I feel like, yeah, I'm going to knock on my head and say, like, currently that stuff that you're talking about, I don't think about it too much when posting only because it feels like what I'm, you know, like it's mostly my paintings or a song or something, you know, like a my dog but it's I feel like yeah it's it's scary I I don't know. What kind of dog do you have? I don't know she we adopted her I'm guessing a Maltese-ish thing she's very sweet. I think that's a good answer yeah if you I mean I know what kind of dogs I have but it's only because we always have these dogs. Yeah. What is it?

They're German Shepherds. Oh, those are very smart dogs. They are very smart dogs. Like, really smart. Yeah. Like, you can leave the house and say, I'll be back about six. They'll understand. Yeah, make an omelette or something.

Just something light, no carbs. Do you have more than one? I have two and a Jack Russell. And do they, how do they hang? Are they... Okay. The Germans march up and down and the Jack Russell drinks too much. It's just stereotypes for where they're from.

No, German shepherds are very kind of like, it's time to go to bed. Go to bed. And they'll do that. When the kids are little, they'll like nudge them and stuff. Oh, that's so sweet. They know. Yeah, it's kind of like, no, go over here. Yeah.

It's time for sleeping. And the Jack Russells are like, let's all go fucking nuts. And they're kind of the pogues of the dog world. But I do love it. You have a little dog and a little kid. And a little kid. And the little kid could care less about the little dog, but the little dog wants to protect our kids.

She's like his guardian. And even to your point of really knowing what's up, when he was little, she would come up and put her paw on my head and just wake me up in the middle of the night, and she would know that Mikey was hungry before I knew. Yeah, they're very in tune. That's kind of cool. Sweet dog.

What age is your dog? We think maybe nine or ten at this point, yeah. Okay. But yeah, I could tell she always wants to go with me wherever, but she always just sits there. Is she here? Right in my back. No, she is the type of dog that sits in a bag.

So it goes in a bag? So we fly with her and no one ever knows. I mean, obviously, I still pay for her to fly, but, like, nobody would ever know. Do you have to pay for a dog to fly? Yeah. Well, actually, I just got that perk

through JetBlue. So, if I fly JetBlue, no, I don't have to pay for my... Really? That's a fun thing. I didn't know it because when I see people carrying their dogs on the plane,

I'm like, I assume that the dog flies for free. It's usually, like, $75 or something. That's outrageous. It doesn't get a seat. But I fly JetBlue mostly and so I got the dog perk. That's usually like $75 or something. That's outrageous. It doesn't get a seat. But I fly JetBlue mostly and so I got the dog perk. That's really exciting. Do you do the mint

on JetBlue where you get a single seat on your own? I used to, but now with a kid we do the three, just three across. That's the great thing about once you're a family, that you don't have to go first class or try and just get a row and you're in first class. But yes, mint mint is i always loved

have you done the flight yeah every parent does that pass through this thing where your baby is the baby that's ruining the flight for everybody else i'm gonna knock on no we you know it'll happen really i think so yeah well no maybe not you know what age is he he's four but he's always been a great player like We've been so lucky. Do you want to hear about a crazy flight that I just had, though? Sure. This is a crazy story. We were visiting my aunt and uncle.

They live in Hawaii. That's where I was back in the day. And they had never met Mikey. And so we went over there. It was a couple of weeks ago. And on our flight back, we had maybe 20 minutes out of, we just took off from Kona, heading to L.A. And I'm on my computer doing work and my son is sleeping and jake is sleeping and and then all of a sudden i smell gas and i look to the person

across the row from me and he looks at me and he goes do you smell that and i said yeah you tell someone right away and you hear people going i smell propane i smell propane and so i wake up jake and he hits the the like ding, ding, you know. And we hear the flight attendants are in their seats for safety. And right away I'm like, but why? But it's because we had just taken off like 20 minutes prior. But they said if it's an emergency, hit it again. So he hits it again.

And you see their face as they come down the aisle and smell the same propane. And the flight attendant was like, you know, the good news is we're not that far from hawaii if we need to turn around and i'm thinking turn it around like this can't be right like something and i'm panicking and i'm looking at my son who's just so sweet and sleeping and i'm like oh my gosh like we're over the ocean what's gonna happen and um and then i see she rushes to the phone to talk to the pilot and then she comes back and says, everything's looking good on their end. If the smell doesn't dissipate in five minutes, we'll reassess. And I am freaking out.

And then probably four minutes into it, we're all kind of, everyone's quiet and freaking out. But then it's like, wait, the smell is going away. And then the pilot gets on the speaker and says um for everyone who was concerned about the smell of propane it was a fruit and i'm like there is no way that was a fruit by the way we had to go through two different fruit screenings so of course like no way it was the propane fruit turns out it was a fruit called a durian did you know somebody so these i looked it up i felt less crazy once i looked it up. It's caused other flights to be delayed and things because it can smell like propane.

It can smell like a lot of bad things. Right. But it's illegal in some countries because it smells so bad. And somebody got their fruit through two fruit screenings and decided it was time to eat a durian while on our flight. Who are these people? I don't know. Like, I get mad at people that wear shorts on a flight. But bringing on that, that's outrageous. It was so wild. Who are these people? I don't know. I get mad at people that wear shorts on a flight.

But bringing on that, that's outrageous. It was so wild. I mean, I did feel a little crazy because I went through so many emotions within those eight minutes. You wouldn't, yeah. But it was really scary. And it turns out it was a fruit. Yeah. Well, all's well that ends well. Yeah, I guess so.

It's been lovely talking to you. So much fun to talk to you. I feel like we just kind of wandered around. I'm very strange. It's really fun. Thanks for having me. Lovely. Thanks for being here.

I'm Angie Martinez. And on my podcast, I like to talk to everyone from Hall of Fame athletes to iconic musicians about getting real on some of the complications and challenges of real life. I had the best dad and I had the best memories and the greatest experience. And that's all I want for my kids as long as they can have that. Listen to Angie Martinez IRL on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Want to know how to leverage culture to build a successful business? Then Butternomics is the podcast for you. I'm your host, Brandon Butler, founder and ceo of butter atl and on butternomics we go deep with today's most influential entrepreneurs innovators and business leaders to peel back the layers on

how they use culture as a driving force in their business butternomics will give you what you need to take your game to the next level listen to butternomternomics on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. For 10 years, I've been obsessed with one of the most bizarre and audacious cons in rock and roll history. We were all facing 20 years

and all that good stuff. The lead singer tried to pull off an English accent and they went on the road as the zombies. These guys are not going to get away with it. The zombies are too popular.

Listen to the true story of the fake zombies on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.