Joy, a Podcast. Hosted by Craig Ferguson - Kimbal Musk

Episode Date: November 7, 2023

Meet Kimbal Musk, he is a restaurateur, chief, and entrepreneur. In this first ever field trip episode of Joy, Craig visits Kimbal at his house in Colorado and Kimbal makes him his famous & very delicious scrambled eggs. They talk about food, culture and Burning Man! Kimbal’s new book titled "The Kitchen Cookbook: Cooking for Your Community" is out on March 12th, 2023 and you can pre-order it now on Amazon here: https://shorturl.at/bh167 EnJOY!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling, as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life in marriage. I just filed for divorce. Whoa. I said the words that I've said, like, in my head for, like, 16 years. Wild. Listen to Miss Spelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Angie Martinez.

And on my podcast, I like to talk to everyone from Hall of Fame athletes to iconic musicians about getting real on some of the complications and challenges of real life. I had the best dad. And I had the best memories and the greatest experience. And that's all I want for my kids as long as they can have that. Listen to Angie Martinez IRL on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Guess what, Will?

What's that, Mango? I've been trying to write a promo for our podcast, Part-Time Genius, but even though we've done over 250 episodes, we don't really talk about murders or cults. I mean, we did just cover the Illuminati of cheese, so I feel like that makes us pretty edgy. We also solve mysteries like how Chinese is your Chinese food and how do dollar stores make money.

And then, of course, can you game a dog show? So what you're saying is everyone should be listening. Listen to Part-Time Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week on the Craig Ferguson Fancy Rascal Tour, November 8th in The Factory in St. Louis, Missouri. November 9th, Victory Theatre in Evansville, Indiana. November 11th, Hollywood Casino at Charlestown Races in Charlestown, West Virginia. And finally, November the 12th, the National in Richmond, Virginia.

Get your tickets at thecraigfergusonshow.com slash tour, or don't get your tickets. I don't care, but I would like to see you. My name is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast is Joy. I talk to interesting people about what brings them happiness. Meet Kimball Musk. He's a chef, he's an entrepreneur, he's a member of the Musk family,

and he really likes Burning Man. Have a listen to this. All right, who wants eggs? I want eggs. Okay, listen, here's the thing about you cooking eggs. Yeah. See, I'm a bit of an egg snob. Oh, you are. I am an egg snob. Oh, you are.

You don't know egg snobs until you've met Stella. Well, here's the thing, though. Do you have your own chickens? Well, we actually did. Right. But what we realized was that it was really

a raccoon feeding operation. Yeah. We'd go out into the backyard and see our chickens and count them and be like, well, I guess we're three down today, but that's okay. Raccoons eat chickens? We fed at least three raccoons last night.

The thing is about it, I have chickens in Scotland, and if you keep them in a little house or next to your bed, chickens are the dirtiest animal in the world. Do you know that? I am a big fan of their... No, chickens are actually pretty nasty and they fight you. Also, did you have a cock roll? I know I did.

Right, okay. We have a cock roll. Can you say cock? You can say cock. No, I don't know if I can say cock to you. I have to be a little more thoughtful about... But I think I don't know what else you call it nowadays, right? Well, it's a cock. That's what I call it.

In fact, the slang word for penis came from a cockerel. I'm sure that's true. There we go. Anyway, that's not... So your joy is food. That's what... My life joy is food, yeah. Not just food, but the fact that we're going to cook together, eat together.

It's like the most beautiful way to get to know people. And I've just been cooking since I was probably 11 years old. I had a mom who was wonderful, but she doesn't cook very well. Right. My mother couldn't cook either. But she was also really cool about me going to the grocery store and getting whatever I want and cooking. You were doing that at 11 years old? You were like, I'm going to go to the grocery store and getting whatever I want and cooking. You were doing that at 11 years old? You were like, I'm going to go to the grocery

store and get... Yeah, I would go... She thought something was wrong with me. I'd go and I'd smell the vegetables. Yeah? Do you still do that? Yeah. Nah, come on. You have a team of people that go out and buy... No, if I'm cooking, I like to go to either

Whole Foods or the farmer's market because the quality of the food is, it's not just quality, you can get different varieties. Did you train as a chef? Yeah. So that's part of it then, isn't it? You go and... I didn't plan on doing a full professional cooking,

but I ended up doing it. I started with a three-month program. It was just basic technique at the French Culinary Institute. Wow. Which is, it's no longer around, but it was the top school at the time in Manhattan. And in fact, I learned how to make scrambled eggs from… Is this what you're going to make? You're going to make some scrambled eggs?

Scrambled eggs from Chef Alain Salter, who's just passed away. And they've got a team of 50 chefs. But scrambled eggs and the omelette, which is really the same recipe, that's done by the head of the school. Really? It's that big of a deal? It's that big of a deal. See, because my son can make scrambled eggs.

I can't really make scrambled eggs, but my youngest son, who's 12, can make scrambled eggs. He's really good at it. And they taught him it at school. I didn't know there was such an involved thing. It's not so much that it's involved. It's actually very simple, but simple is the hardest.

Right, okay. It's like cutting hair short. That's how you tell someone's a good barber. Cutting hair long, they can hide. Cutting hair short. Exactly, you can't hide behind it. Exactly. Right, okay.

So you go and make scrambled eggs. Now let me ask you this if you were trained as a chef then and i i would have asked tony burdain the same thing yeah um oh by the way he tony burdain was uh one of the reasons i became a chef uh his really kitchen confidential came out in the late 90s and uh that's a great book. I mean, it's a great book. It really is. One of the great, and it's of course about cooking, but it's great in every way. He was an extraordinary human being. He was an extraordinary, extraordinary guy.

Troubled guy, obviously. So sad. I feel like chefs are, though. Chefs, to me, I don't get that vibe from you, but maybe a little bit. I think that a lot of people in general struggle but if you go into the chef's world it's a submarine culture you are you are literally your mind is completely taken out for 12 hours you show up at let's say 11 a.m right usually working the the dinner shift you'll be done at 11 p.m. and if you have a troubled mind nothing better

yeah because you are not thinking about anything so do you think that that's what the troubled minds are called to our troubled minds are caused by it thinking the egg scenario in fact what comes first the troubled mind or the or the desire to cook gives you a troubled mind because you're not it's why I think about Tony Bourdain this is what I was. Because you're not, that's why I think about Tony Bourdain, this is what I was going to say, you're not fat, you're thin. And Tony was thin.

And a lot of chefs I know are thin. Like if I was a chef, I'd be like 500 pounds, I think. If you're really cooking in the kitchen, it's like running a marathon every day. It's actually pretty hard to gain weight. Is this on your feet all the time and stuff? On your feet. I mean, I used to,

I wear these little Fitbits and stuff. Right. 12 miles a day. Really? In a kitchen? In a kitchen. And you're just moving two feet. And it's 12 miles, man.

It's a lot of work. And if you're in, same with servers. Because you have, how many restaurants do you have now? You have three? So three. We have the kitchen in Boulder, in Denver, and Chicago. and we're going to open one in austin that makes sense do you go in and do a shift in the kitchens there i don't do it anymore you know the the the thing about it is it's it requires fitness right do that kind of uh to do that kind of uh 12 hours of cooking yeah but then the other

thing is it's it's a choreographed is it's a choreographed dance. It's choreographed with your other chefs. So you might do the saute where you might do the protein, you might do the chicken or the fish, but you don't do the other parts of the dish. And you're serving sometimes 20 or 30 people at the same time, so you're holding in your head when that chicken needs to be done and you know that this plate needs to come from that chef. Right, so you can't wander into someone else's kitchen.

You can't just wander in and start cooking. There's such a thing as staging where you can come in and they'll give you, we'll do that with other chefs from around the country. The kitchen is well known for its food. The kitchen also started, helped start the farm-to-table movement. And it's got this beautiful history, and our chefs are talented. And so a lot of other restaurants

will send their chefs to us. And it's called staging, where they actually come in and they try and help, but mostly they're just watching. And then they usually stage for a whole week, and then you start on Monday. And by Friday or Saturday, you might be able to get in and join. Because you have, it's kind of a philosophy for you. It's not just about cooking, right? Because you, I mean, I remember when we talked before about this, you know, years ago when we did that thing for Gant, you know, those couple thinkers thing.

With your wife? Right. And when we talk about food like you were talking about the food deserts and uh and the areas where people don't get uh decent food and they could you know it's just it's it's it's not about economics it's about culturally a challenge that's what we when we at Big Green, we work to educate everyone. We used to work just in schools with kids, and now we work with the parents and work in their homes, and we work in community gardens.

But you just want to get the education level up so that when they think about what they want to eat, they include fresh vegetables. But the fresh vegetables are available. Nothing is easily available in those communities. It's not like other than a 7-Eleven candy store, which is terrible. But if you do want to find fresh vegetables, you can do it. It can always be made easier.

But if culturally you're not interested in it. I know. I think that's what it is. That's where the education comes in. Because it's also delicious. Well, that's why I think, though though when you go through an airport and you see people in I think it bugs me is when I see people

in cargo shorts. I don't know why it's always cargo shorts but they're always in cargo shorts walking through the airport eating as they're walking to a plane. I'm thinking there has to be a moment in life where you don't act. You could either stop and eat or I just don't believe everybody has

to eat all the time i think people graze yeah i know that i do that i actually the one of the things reason i think i'm skinny is i don't graze right i eat breakfast lunch and dinner decent proper breakfast lunch dinner without trying too hard of what i should or shouldn't eat and i maintain my weight right i think if you snack all day, you have no idea how many calories you're putting in you. You could even feel bad, like you haven't been eating enough. Right. And actually, you've taken in a ton of calories.

Well, I got that. When I went to rehab, when I was getting sober, the doctor that performed the thing said, yeah, I see a lot of this in alcoholics of your type. He said, is, I see a lot of this in alcoholics of your type, he said, is that you're overweight and you've got a touch of malnutrition. You know, I was like, what? He went, yeah, well, you can't live on beer.

I was going to say, how is that a surprise? Yeah, well, it was a surprise then. It's so kind of weird because, see, I always thought of, when I grew up in Scotland, food was, you know, it was terrible. The only good food around was... Yeah, I've been to Scotland. Well, now it's changing. I was in the countryside.

Right. The pubs are usually great. The pubs are usually good. I did not like a point one that was great. The thing is, what happened with Scotland, particularly, I think, in the central belt, but up north too, there's a lot of immigration from other cultures. And other cultures' food really makes a difference. At first it was the Italians, then the Pakistani and Indian communities, and the Eastern European communities, the Polish people coming into Glasgow and stuff like that.

It's amazing the difference that if other communities bring in. Yeah, I love that. In fact, London, 20 years ago, it was just English food. Yeah, that's right. And then they really, I don't know how, because London has always been cosmopolitan, but somehow the more ethnic communities sort of overflowed their food culture into the rest of London. That's one of the best food cities in the world. Well, see, I think that's the thing.

It's a pretty short period of time. Right. And I think that's the thing that Tony Bourdain hit on very well when he was doing that show about experiencing the food from other cultures and getting to know other cultures and making them less mysterious and less frightening really it's hard to it's hard to hate someone you know or to be scared of someone or make someone the boogeyman if you kind of know what to eat and you've sat down like you said like you've sat down and you've literally broken bread with them yeah you break bread with people that are that are culturally or you know i actually don't like this term diverse because to me a diverse person is someone you sit down with and you you want to break bread so you can get to know them right uh i'm not a trump

supporter and i will go sit with trump supporters yeah that to me is like okay now i've got some serious yeah uh there's meat on that bone to go figure out. You know what I mean? I think that's quite an interesting take on it because the whole idea right now, you know, and I was talking about this last night when I was doing the show, which you very graciously came to and I made some off-color remarks about your brother, which was nothing fun. But the idea of being in contact and interacting with people you don't agree with seems to be wildly out of fashion and i think the idea that when you talk about food makes sense to me because if you you can sit down with someone you politically have nothing in common with yeah but if you both are tasting something delicious then at least you've got that in common and it's a starting off point you know what i I mean? Yeah, I agree. I think when you sit down with someone and you also have that kind of, let's say, minimum one hour, maybe even longer with them,

and there's certain things that come in, you might even agree on the food that you like, or you might want to suggest something to someone else, that's universal. Yeah, you're right. Everybody does that. Everybody does that. Yeah, yeah. And I always have this joke with, if there's someone really important I want to meet, I invite them to

lunch or dinner. You actually do that? You see people that piss you off? Is that why you're making me ask? Exactly. That's why you're here. But I would, and I'll go out to lunch or dinner with them, and when it comes to, you can be a little insecure about inviting someone that is maybe a celebrity or politician of a certain level.

Right. And then I actually, everyone's got to eat. Yeah. So we're just going to go eat. Right. And it takes the pressure off the meeting. It was a very good meeting in their office. That's like, that's a lot of pressure.

Yeah, you're right. And then it's like you're focusing on the thing so take it let's go back to you early on when you were a kid so this isn't south africa we're talking about when you would go there's something i did when i caught talking people reaching out to have lunch stuff was was in my high school in in canada right but the um but uh i started cooking for my family from about age 11. And you were the cook? I was the cook, yeah. Wow.

The only cook. Really? Yeah. My family's a pretty busy family. Yeah. They're wonderful people, but they just don't prioritize cooking. Right. And I love food.

I love just even these scrambled eggs. Which look amazing, by the way. You're getting a photograph of these scrambled eggs, right? But they look a little different, and that's kind of the point. It's never perfect, is the most thing. But scrambled eggs in particular are one of those things where you can go, I wonder how this compares to the last one, and I wonder how tomorrow's will be. And it's just kind of this never-ending experiment. Now, you said something to me about food years ago, which kind of stuck with me. It was a phrase you used.

You said, food is the new internet. You remember saying that? Oh, yeah, right. Yeah. Do you still feel that way? Do you still feel that there's a a huge growth potential in i mean it actually has already happened you know that was a that was i started sharing that message maybe 10 years ago and now now back then getting locally grown food in your

fridge was it was not a thing i mean you go to the farmer's market but you have to be in a pretty wealthy community to do that right now you want to get locally grown food using vertical farms. Every grocery store has it. It's true, actually. I've noticed that even the Borg-like rise of Whole Foods across America, at least you can get good food.

But even now, the Kroger's and the Kingsooper's and the Albertson's, they're all doing it. The Kroger's and the Kingsupers and the Albertsons, they're all doing it. I, Craig Ferguson, will be on the road once again this fall, bringing the Fancy Rascal Tour to your region. For tickets and full list of tour dates, go to my website, thecraigfergusonshow.com slash tour. Come and see me live, or don't. I'm not your father.

Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life and marriage. I don't think he knew how big it would be, how big the life I was given and live is. I think he was like, oh, yeah, things come and go. But with me, it never came and went.

Is she Donna Martin or a down-and-out divorcee? Is she living in Beverly Hills or a trailer park? In a town where the lines are blurred, Tori is finally going to clear the air in the podcast Misspelling. When a woman has nothing to lose, she has everything to gain. I just filed for divorce. Whoa. I said the words that I've said like in my head for like 16 years. Wild.

Listen to Miss Spelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Angie Martinez. Check out my podcast where I talk to some of the biggest athletes, musicians, actors in the world. We go beyond the headlines and the soundbites to have real conversations about real life, death, love, and everything in between. This life right here, just finding myself, just this relaxation, this not feeling stressed, this not feeling pressed. This is what I'm most proud of. I'm proud of Mary because I've been through hell and some horrible things. That feeling that I had of inadequacy is gone. You're going to die being you. So you got to constantly work on who you are to make sure that the stars align correctly.

Life ain't easy and it's getting harder and harder. So if you have a story to tell, if you've come through some trials, you need to share it because you're going to inspire someone. You're going to give somebody the motivation to not give up, to not quit. Listen to Angie Martinez IRL on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Back in 1969, this was the hottest song around. So hot that some guys from Michigan tried to steal it. So hot that some guys from Michigan tried to steal it. The time of the season for the free. My name is Daniel Ralston. For 10 years, I've been obsessed with one of the most bizarre and audacious cons in rock and roll history. A group would have a hit record, and quickly they would hire a bunch of guys to go out and be the group.

People were being cheated on several levels. After years of searching, we bring you The True Story of the Fake Zombies. I was, like, blown away. These guys are not gonna get away with it. Listen to The True Story of the Fake Zombies on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Where are you going? I'm just going to make sure there's a table. Alright, great. Are we going to eat out of there? Yeah. So, when you're in the restaurant, do you sit down with the chef before you employ them?

Do they have to embrace the philosophy of what you're talking about and that kind of thing? Well, we have a team now of maybe 200 people, so why don't you sit there and I'll sit here and we can chat a little easily. This is lovely. Let me set a word picture of where we are because we're sitting in this

beautiful house in Colorado which is like you can see the Rocky mountains and the sky. Kimball's just going to get something from the kitchen. So I'm just going to talk to you on my own for a bit. And it's very, a very nice swimming pool and the gentle sound of a leaf blower in the distance, which lets you know that you're in a rich guy neighborhood. I have to tell you, when I lived in Los Angeles, the leafs got blown more, I think, than Mick Jagger did in the 60s. They were...

I didn't know if you'd heard that. There's a lot of Leaf blowers around. Is that little house down at the end there, is that your property? That's our guest house, yeah. That's lovely. Yeah, it's a little old house from the 60s. Oh, it's so nice here. This is delicious, by the way. Wow, look at how beautiful that is. This is a different form of eggs. Yeah, so this is soft scrambled.

Soft scrambled. And it's a very simple recipe, classic French recipe. It's technique, not really that much to it, just salt, pepper, and a little bit of butter. So, you just like take them out of the pan earlier, is that what you do? You turn it at a high heat, and then you really stir it until it kind of warms up, and then you drop the heat down, and you finish it for like 30 seconds, and then you actually take it out of the pan, and you put it into a bowl, and it'll continue to cook for another 30 seconds.

It's kind of scientific, isn't it? I would say science and art. You're definitely dealing with the science of it, but the art of it means that every time you do it, it's a little different. I know it's not pleasant to be listening to something to eat, but this is really good. Oh, my God. So do you bake?

I'm not the best baker. Because I have a theory that people either cook or bake. They don't do both. I will say that baking requires a personality to be successful that I don't have. What is that? You call it scientific, but it's more like chemistry. Right. Because you're dealing with subtle changes in the way the gluten works in the bread

or how a yeast might rise. And it's chemistry in that you get it exactly right. It's perfect. It's wonderful. You get it 1% off, and you're like, who made this? Really? This is terrible. Sounds a bit

like aviation to me. Yeah you're going to crash a plane. Pay attention. There's a little bit of... Would you like a coffee? I'd love a cup of coffee. Actually I think there's a coffee right there. Can we see that? Top of the rabbit on it. Yeah one of your guys made that. I'm going to grab one as well. Thank you. You're gonna get your coffee? I'll be right back. So anyway I'm sitting in the backyard and eating these. I'm not counting the best scrambled eggs I've ever tasted in my life. I mean, really. I kind of feel like I could get into this.

I could be a rich guy and sit around eating scrambled eggs that are kind of soft. So I feel like I'm kind of made for this. You know, eating a meat pie in Scotland doesn't hold the same allure right now. Although it has to be said, for me, Kimmel's off doing something in the kitchen, but it has to be said, for me, I enjoy a meat pie in Scotland sometimes. I'm going to test the coffee now. I know this probably sounds really gross, but here we go.

Oh, my God, that coffee is really good. That's good. Hey, your coffee is pretty good. What have you got there? There's a little treat. Condiments? A little treat. So don't eat your eggs.

Slow down. Yeah, I won't. No, I can't. Creme fraiche. Creme fraiche, everybody,, is French for fresh cream. I think. I don't know, it's French, but it's from Vermont, which is French for Green Mountain,

which my wife is from Vermont, and my company is called Green Mountain West because we were in California when we started it. It's not quite the same as the musk companies, but, you know, we make the occasional thing. Anyway. So this recipe is what I cook every morning. You have this every day? Every morning, yeah.

Oh, my God. But once a year, I cook it at Burning Man. I wanted to talk to you about Burning Man, because that is a source of joy for you. And it's completely, if you don't mind me saying so, I know that you'll explain it to me and I'll get it. But right now, it seems completely out of character for you. Well, I'm curious, what makes you think, what is the character of Burning Man? Well, I don't know anything about Burning Man, so you're going to explain it to me. character of Burning Man. Well, I don't know anything about Burning Man, so you're going to explain it to me.

But when I think about you, I think of someone who's organized and forward-thinking, methodical, business-like, and adult. These are not things that I think of about Burning Man. Do you know what I mean? Okay. So talk me through that.

Look at that. Crepe fresh on my eggs. Hold on, hold on. What is that? A little caviar. Oh, man, I don't do cavpe fresh on my eggs. Hold on, hold on. Oh, not more? What is that? A little caviar. Oh, man, I don't do caviar, but I will. You don't do caviar? Well, I've never liked it, but I'm going to try it.

Well, this is the time. All right. I'll give you a little bit on the side. Right. So you can choose if you like it or not. Caviar. All right. Caviar on eggs.

I'm going to do it. I hope that I don't like this so much, because I don't have the kind of money that means I can have this. This is like eating raw goo. To be clear, these are not the very expensive kind. Oh, they're not? I'm not eating that. Because, you know, you're mixing with scrambled eggs.

You don't want to go nuts with it. You know what? Oh, my God. It's pretty good. I can't. Pretty good. Oh, my god. So, when you make scrambled eggs at Burning Man, first of all, I have to know what's your

attachment to Burning Man. When did you first go and why did you go? Yeah, so I first went in 1998. Okay, that's real Burning Man. Yeah, that's like real, the old days. And you know, I didn't know what to expect frankly i think no one knows what to expect ever i've never been it's so hard to describe so i went there and uh i i kept next to this guy who kind of took care of us because we we weren't really prepared properly it was my

sister and my cousin and i and we um showed up with a cooler and maybe a tent and stuff. And you just need more infrastructure than that to have a good time at Burning Man. So this guy was really large, roly-poly, kind of Michelin man kind of guy. Was he wearing a shirt and no pants? Because that's what I think about Burning Man. No shirt, no pants. No shirt, no totally naked? Really? Yeah, seriously. And he had this roly-poly skin, like white, like very, very bright white.

And he covered himself in zinc sunblock. But still took care of us. So we were happy to do it any way we want. But he still to this day has the best art piece I've ever seen at Burning Man in around 25 years. He had a water tank that he'd get up, put his water tank on in the back, and out of the water tank would come a post and a circle like a metal tube, and he would walk around Burning Man and give people showers. But the catch was you had to be in the shower with him, because the curtain would be on that rod, and he would close the curtain, and you'd be inside the

shower with this guy. You could not avoid curtain and you'd be inside the shower with this guy. You could not avoid rubbing against him if you wanted the shower. And he was tomlili. I think this is illegal. No, people volunteer to come in because you really want that shower. And it took me a few days to even imagine that I would ever want to get into that shower. And I did at the end. I was like, you know, that's actually, you just stood there and held the soap for Right. And I did at the end. I was like, you know, that's actually. You felt you really needed a shower. He just stood there and he held the soap for me. And I was like, this is, it's not just about the art. It's the experience of going out of your comfort zone that I just really fell in love with

at Burning Man. Did you fall in love with him? Is that what you're telling me? That's right. Exactly. Did he get excited you were there? No. Okay.

Okay. Nope. 100% just there to be in the there? No. Okay. Nope. 100% just there to be in the shower with you. Right. What is Burning Man? Because you've got to talk me through it. I imagine it's just like being a bunch of people who are zapped off their tits on some kind of, you know, drug and going crazy in the desert. It's not that easy to describe. It's like the best way I've described Burning Man is, do you like the beach?

Have you been to the beach? Yeah, of course. But you go to the beach. It's hot. It's sunny. There's a lot of sand. Some people don't like the beach. Right.

Some people don't like the beach. But if someone had never seen the beach, would you say to them, you don't understand. Okay. So it's as diverse an experience as the beach? Diverse as the beach. Some people don't like it. Some people love it. What do you love about it? I like the, first of all, you get a break from all technology. You're there,

there's no internet, there's no phone, there's no sense of time. You wake up when you're, when you wake up, you go to bed when you want to go to bed eat when you're hungry you're you a lot of dancing the beautiful ritual at the end of the week where you burn the man which to me is made very meaningful because you kind of put the past behind you right and it's a very powerful ceremony uh 80 000 people come around it and you do it in in in community it's a really amazing experience that's interesting to me it feels like it has a as you describe it a sort of religious ceremonial feel to it does it people have tried to call it that but it's not that it's more it's more like um it's more like an ego death

which is not really spiritual it's more like people talk about these things you know I actually broke my neck when I was in 2010 I was paralyzed for three days it was oh my god it was a complete burning man no no no it's just a on a ski hill right and you realize for several days that everything you've done up until now can't continue it's just it gone. You can't walk. It's just such a powerful and difficult experience. And it turns out they healed me and I was able to function again, but it took two years to get back to where I am, but thank goodness for Western medicine. No idea.

Yeah, no, really incredible. But that experience, you kind of get a mini version of that every year at Burning Man, where whatever you did in the past is left behind. And you're burning it, literally. It's the ritual. And so I wouldn't call it religious. It's more like it has a spiritual element to it. It's more of a mind-conscious experience. Do you think you're—no, I don't think you think you are.

I mean, clearly you are someone who's drawn to the spiritual nature of things, even with food. Are you a religious person? Do you have a dogma that you find attractive? I've had enough experiences in my life to really feel the presence of God, and I love that. I don't relate to any of the religions. Fairly recently, I have to say that I'm interested in being a Quaker. What is that again?

Well, it's kind of like Burning Man for Protestants, I think. Oh, wow. I wonder how the Protestants do it. Probably not well. Quakers have no clergy, so I'm kind of fascinated by that. And Quaker friends, the meetings that they have, I don't know enough about it, so I'm kind of fascinated by that. And Quaker friends, the meetings that they have, I don't know enough about it, so I'm kind of outside my, but they sit down like for an hour. And if someone wants to talk, they talk. And if no one wants to talk, they just sit for an hour.

And that I feel would be very powerful. The older I get, the more fascinated I am with The older I get, the more fascinated I am with religion and spirituality. You know, C.S. Lewis, who was a great Christian apologist, said that, you know, when you're young, it's easy to be an atheist and dismiss it all because death is a horseman three hills away. Right. Right. But when you hear the sound of the hoofbeats, you kind of of it starts to get your attention and i don't think i could say that i was uh i was drawn into church-like religion but there's a bunch of people i've become fascinated with have you heard of or do you have any knowledge of the desert fathers

origin of alexandria evagrius of pont. Anthony. It was a group of pre-church Christians that lived in the desert in Egypt in the second and third centuries. They're fascinating. Not just fathers, there were women doing it as well, which Christianity at that time was considered really outrageous because the Romans thought they were atheists because they only had one God. And they believed that women had souls. Yeah. Which was like this wildly feminist idea that women were people. Which Christianity had, you know, I don't know the exact ins and outs of it, but it was much more egalitarian.

And then when the Roman Empire took it over, it's kind of like, you know what I think it is? Probably the way Burning Man is now, and once it's taken over by Starbucks and Amazon, and you know what I mean? It's like then, I think that's what happens. One of the things that Burning Man has as its principal ethos is decommodification, meaning that no Starbucks allowed, no sponsorships allowed. Companies will support incredible art pieces out there, but it has to be anonymous. Right.

And it is such an unusual way to do things in today's world that maybe there's some truth to that. Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life and marriage. I don't think he knew how big it would be, how big the life I was given and live is. I think he was like, oh yeah, things come and go. But with me, it never came and went. Is she Donna Martin or a down and out divorcee?

Is she living in Beverly Hills or a trailer park? In a town where the lines are blurred, Tori is finally going to clear the air in the podcast, Misspelling. When a woman has nothing to lose, she has everything to gain. I just filed for divorce. Whoa.

I said the words that I've said like in my head for like 16 years. Wild. Listen to Miss Spelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Angie Martinez. Check out my podcast where I talk to some of the biggest athletes, musicians, actors in the world. We go beyond the headlines and the soundbites to have real conversations about real life, death, love,

and everything in between. This life right here, just finding myself, just relaxation, just not feeling stressed, just not feeling pressed. This is what I'm most proud of. I'm proud of Mary because I've been through hell and some horrible things. That feeling that I had of inadequacy is gone. You're going to die being you. So you've got to constantly work on who you are to make sure that the stars align correctly. Life ain't easy and it's getting harder and harder.

So if you have a story to tell, if you've come through some trials, you need to share it because you're going to inspire someone. You're going to give somebody the motivation to not give up, to not quit. Listen to Angie Martinez IRL on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. bigger businesses that leverage culture and build successful brands. Now I want to share what I've learned with you.

And on Butternomics, we go deep with today's most influential entrepreneurs, innovators, and business leaders to peel back the layers on how they use culture as a driving force in their business. On every episode, we get the inside scoop on how these leaders tap into culture to build something amazing. From exclusive interviews to business breakdowns, we'll explore the journey of turning passion for culture into business. Whether you're just getting started or an established business owner, Butternomics will give you what you

need to take your game to the next level. This is Butternomics. Listen to Butternomics on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You say that thing about ego death. And ego death is a fascinating concept for me. The idea of giving something, the myth of ownership. Like, you know, you've got a bit of money. I've got a bit of money.

We both know the dirty secret about money. And anyone who doesn't have money doesn't know this dirty secret. And I grew up with no money. I know that you were timing life and you didn't have any money. And anyone who doesn't have money doesn't know this dirty secret. And I grew up with no money. I know that you were the type in life where you didn't have any money. And the dirty secret about money is it doesn't do as much as you think it's going to do. It's quite demoralizing how much power you get out of it. It's like it does some things. I remember talking to, do you know Jim Carrey? Yeah, I don't know him, but I know him. He's wonderful. I did a movie with Jim. Jim's kind of like a man in search of something.

And he said he wishes everybody in the world could get everything they ever wanted, because then they would realize how much it doesn't work, because he got everything he wanted. And I think that the idea of, I'm fascinated by your description of Burning Man, because the idea of ego death or the myth of ownership. And that's actually a good point. In Burning Man, there is no ownership. So even if you created an art piece, no one knows it's yours. There's no recognition.

You can certainly stand next to it and tell people, that's my art piece, but people don't do that. It's very hot and sunny out there. Even, obviously, all the camps are set up and taken down, and there's leave no trace. So there is no ownership. What is the organizational structure of it, then? How does it come together? Is there a board? Yeah, it's a fascinating organization.

I'm actually on the board. It's incredible. The people in California that run it are an incredible group of people that I think created the most interesting definitely the most interesting but also probably the most awesome event in the world right but they're only a group of say 100 people the thing that makes burning man very special is in addition to that there those 100 people organize 10 000 volunteers right and those 10 000 volunteers make up 10,000 of 80,000 attendees.

So they're both volunteers as well as attendees. And so you get this community-built city, literally the third biggest city in Nevada for one week of the year. And they build it, and then they take it down. It's fascinating to me because it feels like it would be difficult to have or it would be a ripe environment for people to behave badly. It doesn't feel like... Actually, the opposite happens. Because it's essentially a survival camp in the desert,

you're dependent on everyone around you. You just can't survive by yourself. Right. And that creates a very different psychological relationship with the people around you where you're very nice to them. And I've had people join me over the years. Yeah, I should bring you sometime. You'll have a blast.

I am fascinated by it. One of my favorite things is to bring a virgin to Burning Man where they've never been and they don't understand it. But the people will actually ask me, like, how is it that everyone is so friendly? It's so unusual how friendly they are. And it's not just because they're being friendly to you because you're new or you don't really know what you're doing. They'll be friendly to you because they will need your help in some form. Right. It's funny because I feel like, as you describe it, I think to myself, I have a level of cynicism that would... I get uncomfortable in the Midwest when people are friendly I

Wonder if do you have to drop that cynicism in order to feel comfortable? I mean it doesn't serve you to be cynical because you're in survival camp cynicism is a luxury When you're like I'm above everyone I can I can be cynical right when you're in survival mode Yeah, that's got to go that's very interesting so you bring yourself down to it has to be a community that's against i guess the common enemy if you like is the environment the the what you're working against the dust the heat is it very druggy is it very kind of i think it's really whatever people want to do because i don't do anything yeah i would say whatever we want to do i think the don't do anything. Yeah, I would say whatever people want to do. I think the use of psychedelics

is very strong. I could imagine. But alcohol is non-existent. Right. Because it's a desert that you dehydrate. Yeah, you die. You die with it.

So I think that it's a very mind-expanding kind of drugs or medicines if you take them. But you also don't need it because it's so overwhelming how much is going on. And the other thing that is incredible is there's usually about 500 art pieces

that could range from the size of this coffee cup to the size of that tree. Literally even bigger. It's just so incredible. And these are people who've gifted the art to the playa for that week and they also have to take it down and remove it afterwards. One time a 747 was deconstructed the art to the playa for that week and they also take it down and

remove it afterwards one one time a 747 was deconstructed and rebuilt on the playa that's awesome i mean it's just so so the scale of things is just always always beyond but the uh the feeling of of everyone gifting makes turns it around on you in your own mind you're like oh i wonder what i could what gift could i bring right and so the first time come to Burning Man, you're usually not bringing a gift, but by the time you've left Burning Man, you're like, next time I come, I'm going to bring something. I'm going to bring my gift, whatever that is. It could even be spoken word poetry.

You don't have to bring something physical, but you're going to bring something. It's hard to come back to Burning Man and not be a participant with a gift. What about the advent of social media? Does that affect it? It doesn't affect it as much because you don't have internet connection.

Right. But people will still be recording things, which they can post later. They do, but it's... I think there's something about social media that it's all about current events, or at least this is what I'm doing today. It's not a particularly interesting event.

But if you go to Burning Man and you come back and a week later you've got some videos you want to post, sure, post them, but you're not in the moment. There's no adrenaline around it. There's no endorphins from getting likes or whatever because it just takes a long time also to recover from Burning Man.

It's quite an intense experience. It just doesn't match social media. But what about in a situation where if you're there and you're well-known, people know who you are, well-known people know who I am. If I'm there walking around naked with a shower

curtain on so that I can get people to... I feel like that might get out. Look, I'm not saying I'm going to do it. I would totally do it, but I'm not going to do it. I don't think I've ever seen someone pull out their phone at Burning Man.

Right. It's a pretty big statement. Like, I was at the Taylor Swift concert and everyone's watching through their phone. Yeah, I know. And you're like,

okay, I get it. They want to record it for some posterity or some reason. At Burning Man, you know, that's just the weirdest thing you can imagine.

Then let's talk about the phones a little bit and recording it. Would you like some water? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would, actually. It'd be lovely. I'm just back here again with my eggs. Actually, while he's here, I'm just going to steal a few more eggs. Because I swear to God, rich guy eggs are the best eggs I've ever tasted in my life.

It's a whole different, like, eggs like this and Denny's just don't exist. You know what I'm saying oh my god it's like burning manners in my mouth it's delicious i'm not kidding hey man oh thanks is this special water or just water from the faucet um it is uh from the tap a little filtering in it nothing super special a little bit of caviar right exactly so when you were at the taylor swift concert people were recording through the point i in a slightly different experience but still an amazing thing to go and see was at the uh the exhibition of van gogh's cypresses uh the met last week and in the exhibition of van gogh's Cypresses at the Met last week. And in the exhibition of Van Gogh's Cypresses

is the Starry, Starry Night. The Starry Night. Not Starry, Starry Night. That's the song. But Starry Night, the Van Gogh, very, very, very famous Van Gogh painting. And looking at the painting, it's a remarkable piece of art.

It's an unbelievable piece of art. But, as I'm sure a Taylor Swift concert is, but you have to time how you see it to not see it through the screens of other people's phones as they hold it. Oh, they allow that in there. Right, they allow that in there. And I feel like what we are in danger of losing, and it's interesting that you describe Burning Man the way you do because I feel like it plays in a little bit.

that you describe Burning Man the way you do, because I feel like it plays in a little bit. I think we're in danger of losing analog biological memories. Yeah. That we record things like we don't have the capacity to do it for ourselves. That seems weird to me. I'm perfectly capable of looking at a thing. Yeah. And I wonder if something is lost by recording it as opposed to remembering it.

I really do believe that. I obviously don't share, most people don't share that view. Right. But I love enjoying the Taylor Swift concert and being in the moment with her music. Right. And adding my phone reduces that. I agree.

The perfect experience. In fact, when I was at her show last night, I was relieved to see that no phones were allowed. Yeah. In my game, you've got to buy the phones. But you might have a reason because you don't want that content, that jokes to be shared elsewhere.

Right, that is it. But let's imagine they weren't doing that. They were just watching your show with the phone so they could record it for their own personal posterity. Right. It would dampen the laughter by half, at least. Totally. Because if I do a stand-up show,

usually this happens in the bigger venues, like Boulder Theatre isn't one of those, but if I'm doing a casino or a bigger venue, which is 5,000, 10,000 people, they put big screens up at the side so that everybody gets a good view. But the nature of how these screens work, I speak into a microphone,

and a fraction of a second later, the joke is delivered on the screen. And it kind of misses the beat. So all the timing is different. You have to time, like when you're playing big venues with screens, you have to time it differently. Yeah. Because nobody looks at you. You're just a tiny little figure.

Right, exactly. They all look at the giant close-up of your face. You're almost watching yourself and timing yourself to that screen. But here's an interesting thing. I'm at the Met the other day. It feels to me like this plays into your Burning Man thing, just as we talk about it. Or maybe there's something magical in the eggs.

When I was in the Met, there was a painting by Pissarro called, I think it's called Montmartre Street on a Winter's Day. It's not a particularly famous painting, but it's a very famous artist. He's a French impressionist or a post impressionist, I can't remember. But it's a painting of a street in Paris on a winter's day and it's just everybody in it. And if you looked at that a reproduction of that painting it would do you go that's pretty. But

when you stand next to the painting it has an energy and a power. Feel the history, feel the... You can smell the cold air in the street. It's the weirdest thing. And I wonder, I find myself drifting, maybe it's my age, but I find myself drifting to analog experiences as much as possible because I find... I don't know if it's an age thing. I think there's a very strong culture, let's say, in the world, but it's definitely in America where people use their phones a lot. But at Burning Man, which is an all-ages kind of thing, no one uses their phones at all, no matter what your age is. And what I actually find amazing is people walk around with notebooks.

Oh, that's very very unusual and uh maybe once or twice a week you know in that week someone will come up to you and say would you write something in my notebook and i find that experience quite and then you're like well i've got to be vulnerable and it's more of a it's a culture of being vulnerable drawing out vulnerability it's the exact opposite of recording something on a phone there are people out there of any age that are appreciating the analog experience. I think especially because of COVID. I mean, what happened in COVID, we lost most of our analog experiences. And one of the things that we did as a gathering, because I love connecting with people, COVID couldn't have been worse for me.

We would get together sometimes every Sunday, maybe every second Sunday. And we would just come outside in the mountains of Colorado, pretty safe. No one ever got COVID through this. And we would just get together for, you mentioned the Quaker thing. We got together for about an hour and people could just sing a song. They could play a song for people to dance to. And it was completely analog. It was this appreciation during COVID that we love the analog experience. We live and thrive by it. Why go to the Taylor Swift concert at all

if you purely want the digital experience? And you see people there in community, they're definitely a very strong style guide, for lack of a better word. Everyone's wearing pink tutus and style guide, for lack of a better word. Everyone's wearing pink tutus and silver cowboy hats. But that is the community. That is the analog experience. And I think young people love it. I think the addition of the phone, I don't get it, but hopefully they still love that analog experience. I wonder if human memory is changing though, because the technology is added to the evolutionary experience of human beings. So the print and press is invented. You can't un-invent it. The phone is here.

It's not going. As I age, I find my memory colors my experiences. It will take an experience which is unpleasant and negate the unpleasant effects of it. It will take a, you know, like a... I've got to learn something from you. Well, it is a thing to learn. You learn to take it in stride. Right.

I mean, do we lose the ability to... because if you look at, you know, what's lazily called cancel culture, but if you look at the reaction of people, which is visceral and permanent, that seems quite machine-like to me. For example, everyone in their life has probably had, I certainly have had, unhappy love affairs. pain was intense but i can look back at that the way i look back at physical scars in my body and though the pain was intense at the time i have a kind of sweetness and fondness to what happened i mean i had to go through cancel culture once it was just right right when covid happened so right middle of march you know my last name and. We had to close our restaurants because of COVID. Right. Government shutdown. Right. But we closed our restaurants three days before the government ordered us to shut down.

We just saw it all happening. It was a Monday. Let's just close for the week. Right. We don't know how to close. We're not sure when to reopen. And, and I have a lot of empathy for our team and we did everything we could to

help them out. But for those three days, the Twitter sphere or the, the, everyone was trying to cancel me for closing my restaurants. And then there was a national security order, maybe a national emergency on the Friday. So it was four days of feeling it. And then by Friday, everyone's like, oh, we get it. You were just a couple of days ahead. It's like, yeah, that's not okay. I'm a very empathetic human, and I care a lot about my people.

And to get canceled, people are just so eager to jump on something to cancel. And that's not healthy. No, I think that that's right. And that's what fascinates me about your description of Burning Man, because we come to a point, I feel like you're, and I know you enough to know,

your love of food, your love of these community events, your strive for empathy, right? That I feel like we are in danger of losing something, something very precious. We don't have to lose it. But I think the discussion has to be about, and it's weird because it ties in to all this Judeo-Christian stuff, but you have to find a form of forgiveness.

Yeah. Forgiveness, by the way, I think is for the forgiver. You're benefiting yourself. Always. The person you're trying to forgive probably doesn't even understand what you're forgiving them for. What you're doing is you're saying to yourself, I'm going to let this go. Yeah.

And yeah, okay, you're forgiving the person. You might have an attachment to that person, and maybe it helps you process that psychologically. But the person you're helping is yourself. Yeah, it's that whole idea of resentment being drinking poison and hoping somebody else will die. Right, exactly, exactly. Kimball, this was delicious.

Not just the food, but the experience. And it's always a joy for me. It's always great. I love hanging out with you and love your comedy as well. Well, thank you. And I'm sorry I made a joke about Elon last night. Oh, that was good. Mark and Zach in a cage match.

Right. We needed an audience that found that funny. I think they did. My standards are lower than yours. Just so everybody knows, the joke I made about Elon was, and it wasn't really a joke, I just said that not many people know that Elon was the sun baby in Teletubbies. It was just a remark.

And the truth is, he was. Your move, Internet. Kimball, it's a joy. Thank you so much. Thanks, man. Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life in marriage. I just filed for divorce. Whoa, I said the words that I've said like in my head for like 16 years. Wild. Listen to Miss Spelling

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Angie Martinez, and on my podcast, I like to talk to everyone from Hall of Fame athletes to iconic musicians about getting real on some of the complications and challenges of real life. I had the best dad, and I had the best memories and the greatest experience. And that's all I want for my kids as long as they can have that. Listen to Angie Martinez IRL on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Get emotional with me, Radhi Devlukia, in my new podcast, A Really Good Cry. We're going to be talking with some of my best friends. I didn't know we were going to go there. People that that i admire when we say listen to your body really tune in to what's

going on authors of books that have changed my life now you're talking about sympathy which is different than empathy right never forget it's okay to cry as long as you make it a really good one listen to a really good cry with raleigh devlukia on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts