Joy, a Podcast. Hosted by Craig Ferguson - Matt Walsh

Episode Date: April 23, 2024

Meet Matt Walsh, an American comedian and actor. He is best known for his role as Mike McLintock in Veep and for being one of the founding members of the Upright Citizens Brigade. Listen to Craig and Matt discuss Hollywood, improv, family and much more. Matt is one of the best out there. EnJOY! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Want to know how to leverage culture to build a successful business? Then Butternomics is the podcast for you. I'm your host, Brandon Butler, founder and CEO of Butter ATL. And on Butternomics, we go deep with today's most influential entrepreneurs, innovators, and business leaders to peel back the layers on how they use culture as a driving force in their business. Butternomics will give you what you need to take your game to the next level. Listen to Butternomics on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life in marriage. I just filed for divorce. Whoa. I said the words that I've said like in my head for like 16 years. Wild. Listen to Misspelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Angie Martinez. And on my podcast, I like to talk to everyone from Hall of Fame athletes to iconic musicians about getting real on some of the complications and challenges of real life.

I had the best dad and I had the best memories and the greatest experience. And that's all I want for my kids as long as they can have that. Listen to Angie Martinez IRL on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Craig Ferguson Fancy Rascal Stand-Up Tour continues throughout 2024. For a full list of dates and tickets, go to thecraigfergusonshow.com slash tour. See you out there, thecraigfergusonshow.com slash tour. See you out there. Thecraigfergusonshow.com slash tour. My name is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast is Joy. I talk to interesting people about what brings them happiness. My guest on the podcast today is one of the founder members of the Upright Citizens Brigade, which is a very important force in American comedy and theatre.

He's a very funny guy. You probably know him. I don't know if you know how deep a thinker he is, but you're about to find out. Here he comes. Do you live in LA full-time? I do. You live in the valley. Yeah, I don't anymore, you know that? I didn't.A. full time? I live in the valley. I don't anymore.

I didn't? Where did you go? I went to a magical fairyland called Scotland. Oh. And I live there a lot, and now I'm in New York. Oh, really? Yeah. Do you have family? I don't know your life. Kids?

Yeah, I have two kids. Do you have family? I do. I have three. Three kids? Yeah, yeah. I have two kids. Do you have family? I do. I have three. Three kids? Yeah, yeah. You're even poorer than me. I'm 33% more prolific at having sex, I think is what that means. Well, I don't know. How far apart are your kids?

16, 14, and 12. So every two years we had sex. Oh my God, that's amazing. My boys are 10 years apart. And I tell people, Scottish people are like those big orchids in the jungle that once every 10 years will go, and everything within a two-mile radius gets pregnant. It doesn't matter if you're barren,

get within a Scotsman in his 10-year cycle, and he'll go off. Covered in semen. Oh, my God. I didn't have it. Pollen. Pollen. Pollen. Sorry. I Oh my god. I didn't have it. Pollen. Pollen. Sorry. I ruined the metaphor. I'm sorry. You're an improvisational man, you know?

You're painting a word picture. You said a Scottish man, so I just linked the two. We don't make pollen. Well, we do in Scotland. Okay. Because it contains less sin. Semen has sin, whereas pollen is without sin. Can I ask you questions about Scottish people?

Ask me anything, yeah. So here's a stereotype, my stereotype. Okay. I find that my time, and I spent like a year in Europe going to school and traveling, and then I went backpacking for another year. Right. I'll ask you about this later on, but I need to know. I found that, and this is a stereotype, and I do not judge people by stereotypes, but the Scottish people I was around when they drank, they got really mean.

Yeah. They got angry, and there was an angry undercurrent. And is that a true-ish stereotype, or what would explain? This is an experience from like last time I was there for any serious amount of time was 1990. I think that's fair. I think that's a fair kind of thing. Because what happens is, to be fair to Scottish people, I have noticed that quite a lot of people get mean when they've been drinking. That's true, too.

That is true, too. Except the Irish get kind of mean when they're drinking. Fighting. Fighting mean, yeah. The Scottish get surly. Surly. Surly and unpleasant and kind of bitchy

yeah the Welsh though the Welsh just go crazy they just they just lose it they just go crazy like I'm going to jump off this okay

and they jump off it insane yeah they're crazy and the English are kind of half in the bag all the time really there's

I'm absolutely yeah and like the like a Russian stereotype of a drunk, like a vodka-soaked Russian guy would just be like non-communicative, mean-faced. I feel like I've been around a bit of that, too. Yeah, I've done a lot of drinking in various places.

And I'd say the best drinking, for me, where was the best drinking? Maybe Australia. Most celebratory or the least surly? Yeah, they were just like, let's get drunk. Alright, now we're drunk. Let's go over here. And these are stereotypes, but I love it. Because in Scandinavia

they have their own kind of alcoholism too. Yeah, but it's dark there. It's dark and sad. We are very sad. And alcohol is really expensive over there. Is it really? Because it's dark there. It's dark. Yeah, it's dark and sad. We are very sad. Yeah. Very sad. And alcohol's really expensive over there. Is it really? Because it's taxed so highly. Oh, that's why they're so sad.

I remember being over there and somebody had a bottle of vodka and they're like, hey, the beer's for you. The vodka's like... Really? Yeah, because they spent a lot of money on it because the taxes are like 100% or whatever on it. Oh my God. This is, again, 89. So I stopped drinking in 92, so all my drinking stories are based pre-1992

as well. Do you still drink? I drink a little bit, but not really. You don't look like someone who drinks a lot. My drinking days are well behind. You've got three kids. Although, I have to say, it doesn't stop everybody having kids and drinking. No, it doesn't. So, wait, your kids are, what did you say, it doesn't stop everybody having kids and drinking. No, it doesn't.

No, it doesn't. So, wait, your kids are, what did you say, 16, 14, 12? 16, 14, and 12. Wow. And also, my wife doesn't drink at all. She quit drinking before we met. Good for her. She's sober, yeah.

Yeah, I'm sober too. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it just had to be. So, if your partner isn't drinking, there's no real reason to get too crazy. Well, it's funny. I don't know if you get this in your relationship with your wife, but I get it with my wife because she drinks and I don't. But she'll drink and she'll have a glass of wine, and I'll watch her drinking it, even though I've been sober 32 years.

She's drinking a glass of wine, and I'll watch it, and then she won't finish it. And I'll say, well, it's not finished. And she'll say, well, I had enough. I'll say, what do you mean you had enough? She'll say, you're not in hospital or jail. How have you had enough? And then she's like, I was beginning to feel it.

And I'm like, yeah, beginning to feel it is the start of fucking drinking. It's not the end of drinking. It's the start. It's the beginning. But she's got a whole different approach. Are you a little more like that? No, I had my days where I needed to pull the plane up a little bit. When I was a younger man, I've had times where I didn't eat,

and then I just spun out and passed out, let's say. But I have never had the gene, let's say, or the hit of crack that just, I couldn't turn it off. I never had that. Right. But it's an occupational hazard in comedy. Not yet.

You haven't had it yet. I've seen guys who think they skated, and then later on. Late in life? Oh, yeah. So if like a dark turn, if it all came down. Or a really good thing happened.

This is what I've noticed. Something really amazing happens. You make an unbelievable movie that's a vanity project and something you really care about and it goes ballistic. That's when I'd look out for it. That's when people go crazy.

You start coasting. If I won the lottery, that's probably when I'd... Well, you look at stories of people who win the lottery. It ruins their lives. does I mean it's crazy yeah it does you're right you're right it's more likely that

you're right that's the situation where I would probably start drinking I'm warning you against unreasonably large successes in the future

that's why I've kept my career don't worry about it to a sort of middling middling sort of middle of the road oh that was pretty good.

And then that's it. No more than that. No more than that for safety. I am not in danger of that huge meteoric success. It's also like you're from Chicago. You've been around a lot of beer drinking and that kind of thing. It's like you've grown up around it, right? Yeah, and I never liked hard liquor.

I never took to the harder stuff necessarily. Yeah. I don't know if I ever liked it. It worked, yeah. Marijuana was much more common, I think, for me. Do you still smoke the marijuana? It's very popular, the marijuana, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm kind of like, ugh.

But you never were in it in the late 90s or early 90s when you were still drinking. No, when I stopped drinking, I stopped everything. Yeah, yeah. But the marijuana, even when I was drinking, I didn't really like marijuana. Yeah. Hash. Hash.

Hash was around. Yeah, a lot of hashish. I smoked a little hashish. More European, yeah. Yeah, but really, I liked cocaine, and I'll tell you for why. It felt like a full-on Class A drug, and it felt like a, felt like a full on class a drug. And it was like a vitamin that helped you drink more. So I do that.

But unfortunately the spectacular side effects of, you know, illness and death. Yeah. I felt that and shame, you know, and I tried in my life, I have tried it and it didn't work for me for whatever.

Thank God. Yeah. Cause I was willing to try it but i also was with i saw it here in l.a when i land i moved to new york in 96 then i came to la in 0405 and the crew i was running with in 0405 uh it was before i met my wife right and i just come out of like a breakup in new york I'm like, I'm coming to LA. The guys I was with were into cocaine. Cigarettes and cocaine. And I picked up cigarettes, but I never cared about cocaine.

And their cocaine use was, they're going to do it all night, and they're going to play video games. It wasn't like, go to the dance floor, or go get in a fight, or pick up women. It was, we're going to play video games and keep the coke going. And are any of these guys still alive? A couple have quit. A couple of them have gotten in serious trouble. Yeah.

Yeah. You can't stay at the crazy party forever. No. Let's take you back a little bit to Chicago because you're one of the founders

of UCB, right? Correct. You started it. Who did you start it with? Matt Besser, Amy Poehler, Ian Roberts. Right.

So that you, and there's... How many UCBs are there now? Upright... That's a pound the table in sound. The sound guy's hating this. No, no, I think it's good. It sounds like you're eating donuts.

We're rolling dough. Heavy food. So here's my favorite cookie, Craig. We're going to make this while we're... Oh, yeah, that looks delicious. Okay, Amy, yeah, go ahead. So there's... The four of them.

There's four of them. There's four Upright Citizen Brigades that I'm aware of. Is that right? Yeah, the four of us, yes. But there's four theaters? No, we're not involved in any way. We stepped away from it like three years ago. I had no idea.

It kind of tanked during COVID and the theaters were in trouble. Of course, yeah. It was hard to keep going. Did you sell it to Jeff Bezos? Is that what happened? I wish we would have. We sold it to some predatory smart businessman. Did you really?

Yeah. So did they keep the... Because there's kind of an ethos with UCB, I always thought. Did you guys have a manifesto or something? I mean, I know it was improvisational, but... We kind of had like a... I think you're speaking to the cult aspect of it. We were sort of do-it-yourself, landed in New York, opened a theater in 98,

and it was kind of like, you know, do-it-yourself, edgy, cheap theater, five bucks a ticket. That was sort of the cult of it all, and a lot of people who connected with us early on have gone on to become performers, you know, Rob Riggle, Paul Scheer, Aubrey Plaza, all these people who came through and discovered us as young people have gone on to careers. And they got their stage time on that stage and they learned the craft. But it was all improvisational theater, right? Sketch. The theaters were, we had a curriculum. We wrote a book.

The three of us wrote a book, me, Matt, and Ian wrote a book that took like seven years that codified our take on improv and then our teachers would work off of that curriculum. So, can you boil down a little bit for me? I'm not trying to boil down the whole book, but what is your take

on improv? What is the... Lately, my take on improv is shut your mouth. Okay. And what that means is listen, relinquish your idea, and build off of somebody else's.

Like, that would be the advice if you want to be a good collaborative art player. You want to be a late night host? That's how it is.

No, you guys have to fill time. No, no way. You have to avoid awkward pauses. You can't have like a dead moment.

Au contraire, my French friend. I... You ran it. I ran with the awkward pause. That was one of my signature bits in late night was the awkward pause. I would even say to people, would you care for an awkward pause? And they would do it. We would do awkward pause

which then developed into smell my finger awkward pause which I have to say probably wouldn't fly as well now as it did back then but you know things change. That's so peculiar, that's funny. Well it was about I think it was, I was talking to someone

and they'd do an awkward pause and they held their hand to their face and their finger was just under their nose and they went like that and I think it might have been I think it was Julie Louis-Dreyfus or something like that

oh my gosh and she she smelled it I said did you smell on your finger? and then it became something like that I mean we're just

digging around that's so funny but I I always rather admired the work of improvisational artists because

I felt like it was it was more exciting to watch as an audience member. But I think what happened, I don't know if you agree with this, I think a lot of people started doing it who perhaps hadn't received enough information about how to do it or weren't schooled in it properly

and it got a kind of bad reputation. True. I think stand-up's the same, by the way. Well, I think it's... I've always hated watching bad improv, because it's like there's nothing worse, because you're sort of stuck... I don't know, have you had shingles?

Shingles is a lot worse. I've never had shingles. Oh, Jesus, it's bad. I think in a theater seat, perhaps. How about that? Yeah, okay, fair enough. Or bad, I think in a theater seat, perhaps. How about that? Yeah, okay. Fair enough, yeah. Like, or bad. I guess it applies to bad stand-up.

If a comic's on for a half hour and five minutes in, you're like, this is not going to be good. There's nothing worse. I always feel it might be infectious as well. I get really uncomfortable. Do you know what I mean? It's like, oh, Christ, I don't want any of this on me. I don't like going to see any stand-ups, just in case. No, I don't watch any of this on me. I don't like going to see any stand-ups, just in case.

No, I don't watch a lot of improv either because I get stressed by it. I haven't taught it in years. It's very stressful. Do you ever think you'd ever go back to it? I mean, are you done with it now? I do a show like once a month here in L.A. where we get like a... Have you ever written a book yet? I've written three.

I'll have you on. We get a guest author. Right. They read excerpts from their book. Uh-huh. And then we do scenes off of that material. Oh, great. I've written two biographical books and one work of literary fiction.

Really? Yeah. All right. Yeah. I'll get your content. You're a time's best-selling author, my friend. For real? Yeah.

See, I'm in a bubble. Everyone's in their own bubble. Congratulations on that. Thank you. author, my friend. For real? Yeah. Everyone's in their own bubble. Congratulations on that. Thank you. The Craig Ferguson Fancy Rascal Stand-Up Tour continues throughout

the United States in 2024. For a full list of dates and tickets, go to the craigfergusonshow.com slash tour. See you out there. Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves

into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life and marriage. I don't think he knew how big it would be. How big the life I was given and live is. I think

he was like, oh yeah, things come and go. But with me, it never came and went. Is she Donna Martin or a down and out divorcee? Is she living in Beverly Hills or a trailer park? In a town where the lines are blurred, Tori is finally going to clear the air in the podcast, Misspelling. When a woman has nothing to lose,

she has everything to gain. I just filed for divorce. Whoa. I said the words that I've said like in my head for like 16 years. Wild. Listen to misspelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Angie Martinez. Check out my podcast where I talk to some of the biggest athletes, musicians, actors in the world. We go beyond the headlines and the soundbites to have real conversations about real life, death, love, and everything in between.

This life right here, just finding myself, just relaxation, just not feeling stressed, just not feeling pressed. This is what I'm most proud of. I'm proud of Mary because I've been through hell and some horrible things. That feeling that I had of inadequacy is gone. You're going to die being you. So you got to constantly work on who you are to make sure that the stars align correctly.

Life ain't easy and it's getting harder and harder. So if you have a story to tell, if you've come through some trials, you need to share it because you're going to inspire someone. You're going to give somebody the motivation to not give up, to not quit. Listen to Angie Martinez IRL on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Back in 1969, this was the hottest song around.

So hot that some guys from Michigan tried to steal it. It's the time of the season for the beast My name is Daniel Ralston. For ten years I've been obsessed with one of the most bizarre and audacious cons in rock and roll history. A group would have a hit record and quickly they would hire a bunch of guys to go out and be the group. People were being cheated on several levels. they would hire a bunch of guys to go out and be the group. People were being cheated on several levels. After years of searching, we bring you the true story of the fake zombies.

I was, like, blown away. These guys are not going to get away with it. Listen to the true story of the fake zombies on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Did you ever run into any real trouble with anything you did? Because improv's fast. You don't get a time to

censor yourself about an area that you're going into. We did a lot of aggressive stuff early on. I remember one show, I told the audience I lost a bet with one of the guys in the show, and I had to eat a can of dog food. So I wrapped a can of corned beef hash with a

generic label that was a believable dog food label and I would just come on stage and eat corned beef hash. But it was so revolting to watch someone it looked like someone was eating dog food and that was sort of offending people. Which is gross in the mouth.

To what end? It's not really comedy. And then the other part we did a prank where during the show we announced to the audience there's an ambulance trying to get into the parking lot next door there's a red Honda Civic blocking the entrance please move your car if it's yours

and then we would come back and say please move your car a man has had a heart attack and they can't get the vehicle in to get him out of the thing. And then at the end of the show, we would say, the man died. Thanks a lot for not moving your car,

whoever you are. And it's like, that's not comedy. No, that's just, it's kind of a performance. Performance thing. And I think we thought they would get, I'd like to believe, that we thought, of course, we wouldn't shame

an audience for not moving their car. Because how could we be certain that that person was in this room? Was in the theater anyway.

And also, they could get a stretcher around. They could lift a man through parked cars. Like, we assumed that they knew we were joking, but they didn't.

You can't assume that the audience is bright, I don't think. It's always a nice surprise when they are. Yeah. But I don't know if you can. So you grew up in Chicago, right? So it's a working class family, yeah? Pretty much.

Like a blue collar type thing? My dad was a salesman, so he made it. We moved to the suburbs, so then we had like a middle class life when I hit like 10 or 12, something like that. What suburb was Chicago? It was called, first it was Downers Grove, and then we moved to Darien and Westmont. Okay. So southwest suburbs of Chicago.

All right. That's kind of nice, right? Lovely. But you're, I mean, you're one of seven kids? Yeah. So Catholic. Catholic. Very good. Irish Catholic seven kids? Yeah. So Catholic? Catholic. Very good.

Irish Catholic. Definitely. No doubt about it. That was easy. Yeah. Are you still a Catholic? Am I still a Catholic? Explain what that means.

Are you observant? Do you go to Mass? I might go to church on a Christmas now and then, but no. I don't really. But I did baptize my kids and they currently go to a Catholic high school. I think I baptize them because my parents are like,

you should baptize them. All right, I'll baptize them. Yeah, no, I get it. And then, so we'll see. That's about most of the Catholicism that they've been given. My wife's not, so. Right, so you're not quite deeply into the biscuit

turning into Jesus? We haven't done that yet. Part of me thinks just to make them work for something, part of me thinks I'll give you $1,500 if you go through communion and confirmation and learn all that catechism, just to force them to run through a gauntlet of religiosity and learn a little bit about the New Testament. I don't know.

I have mixed feelings about it myself because I have two boys and I never, the oldest one is 23. If I tell him to do something, he'd tell me to go to hell. But I never made them go through it. They seem to kind of form their own opinions anyway. So you never put, you grew up Catholic? No, I grew up Church of Scotland, Protestant. Okay. So kind of like, yeah, it's just the kind of flip side of Catholicism really. It's guilt

without any good artwork. It's just a lot of guilt and whitewash rather than guilt and, you know, great pictures. I was always fascinated when you go to the churches, Catholic churches, and you see Jesus, you know, all the different Jesuses and he's in a lot of pain and I remember going around churches in Italy and seeing that and thinking

and some beautiful artwork I mean just stunning but then when you go out to the you know the countryside and you see the crap artwork and you go wait is that is that Jesus

I thought it was a bear climbing a fence and it was like bear climbing a fence. And it's like really bad, bad crucifixion scenes and like badly done. And you're like, oh, no. And suddenly it kind of loses its magic a little bit for me. Yeah, it's similar to the way people paint like Kobe on the side of a garage here in L.A. or Clark Gable.

They're not quite great representations. Remember when the woman painted like a... I know what you mean. It was like a leaky fresco. It was like a fresco that had leaked and she went in night and did her fix it. Yeah, did a face on it. Yeah, but hilarious.

But hilarious. And I wonder if that's not part of God's plan too. Sure. If I was a Jesuit, I if that's not part of God's plan too. Sure. If I was a Jesuit, I'd say that's part of God's plan. I'd also be Irish if I was a Jesuit. But there you go. The advocates for God.

So you're in Chicago and you're fairly normal middle class, middle class-ish life. So how come you end up getting drawn into the grease paint and the roar of the crowd and all that kind of stuff is there any showbiz in your family? my dad was like a salesman storyteller and he always told jokes like he held cord in the classic tavern style like alright gather around here's a joke

and so he would hold cord at the table and I always loved one I always remember I feel like I just had a knack for remembering jokes like since I was a kid the minute somebody started I'm like I I just had a knack for remembering jokes like since I was a kid

the minute somebody started I'm like I know the punch like because I cared about them I guess the power of them perhaps like you the attention and stuff

yeah and the attention it afforded you yeah and then I also love my dad would laugh at his joke before the punchline which just was so endearing yeah

and I think I was one of the only ones in the family who would laugh before the joke like him because I thought that was funny too i think but it's also it's indicative of a sense of joy about it as well because you know if i if i have a joke and i know it's going to make people laugh and i know it's funny it can sometimes make me laugh because i know it's coming and i kind of yeah you know and i very unprofessionally can't get it out that happens too yeah so I think that drew me to it and I think just like being from a very like my mom's the best

my dad was the best very loved and solid family there was just this acceptance of like this is what you're going to do and it was just sort of all rote so I think I was in rebellion to that like there was just like there was no choice you're going to go to church. You're going to go to college. You're going to get a business job. It just, it wasn't even preached, but it just seemed like everyone was doing that. And I felt like there must be more. Yeah. I had a brother who kind of flirts with acting still, but everybody else is like interesting, smart people, successful in the best way. Like, I don't think our lives are any better or worse. They're just different choices. So I think in some ways, accepting the status quo was what I was probably rebelling against.

And maybe because I wasn't going to be good at business. I'm not that smart. I'm not that organized. So I probably had to find something else. Yeah, I guess. I mean, it's pretty organized to start a theater company, though, isn't it? Yeah, but guess. I mean, it's pretty organized to start a theater company though, isn't it? Yeah, but it is. It is.

And also, it was our clubhouse. We started it out of need because when we landed in New York, everybody was hostile about rent. Like, you can't keep your props here. It's like $400 a night and you got to get your own lighting guy. So, it was really like surviving. And then once we started teaching classes, we needed a clubhouse to store our props and to teach our classes so it was pretty simple yeah simple business model but i think staying how come you went from chicago to new york though how come i mean because chicago is a pretty good reputation for improvisational comedy and and you know

you could just stay and be there couldn't you i think our goal was to be on a sketch show like we moved we had done probably a showcase in la la is like a showcase town back then yeah in new york had a theater following so we decided like we had done a couple live shows in chicago i was touring with second city at the time right and you can wait in line there and that's another way to achieve success because lauren michaels comes through their talent scouts come through there and if you wait in line you might get on main stage and that's a high visibility platform right but we wanted to stay together as a group like python or kids in the hall that was our dream our voice our unified voice so we decided new york had a potential to build a following right so that's why we moved to new york we gave ourselves six months

we started doing improv separate like we had sketch shows that we had rehearsed and we started doing this free show on Sunday night, which kind of fed our other shows. And people saw us doing this thing called long form, which is, there's sort of like what whose line does where, where all the rules are set out. Like we're going to do a scene, we're going to say pause and we're going to give you a new film style or give us an accent to speak in. And then long form is like, give us one word or he's going to tell a story and we're going to unpack those details and do open improv. So what we were doing, we were sort of taking like Marco Polo

brought noodles back from the Orient. We were taking a kind of improv that nobody had seen in New York, fortunately. So they were like, how do we do this? So we started teaching. Teaching people how to do it. It went from there. Fol in New York, fortunately. Right. So they were like, how do we do this? So we started teaching. Teaching people how to do it. Yeah. It went from there.

Folklorically, yeah. Okay. But that must have been tough because you are a big Chicago sports fan, right? I am a Chicago sports fan. Right. So you're like a big Bears fan, right? I'm a Bears fan and then sort of a pretty decent Bulls fan. Not a baseball guy.

Hawks fan. See, it's weird. Baseball is the one that I connect with. Is it? As an immigrant American, yeah. It's the weirdest thing. Do you go to games live? I've been to a few games.

I'm not a huge sports fan anyway. Here's how corporate my life became when I was doing late night. I've been to, I think, three NFL games. They were all Super Bowls. Yeah. You know what I mean? Well, I've been I think three NFL games. They were all Super Bowls. You know what I mean? You've got to say yes to that. You've got to go. But I wasn't going.

Although I will say this, I watched the last Super Bowl. I kind of loved it. It was the Swifties versus Silicon Valley. And it really played. And it was a fantastic game. It was a Swifties versus Silicon Valley, and it really played. And it was a fantastic game. It was a fantastic game. It really was, right?

I'm not wrong, because I'm not a football fan, but I thought, this is a highly entertaining game. Super competitive game. Yeah, yeah. It was a great Super Bowl. I agree with you. Yeah. I mean, it seems to me, what I got from all American sports,

and baseball falls into this too, is that there seems to be, it's a little competitive for fans to retain stats. If you're not a real fan unless you know who hit the ball in 1948. That's baseball. Baseball is really stat-driven, I feel like. Right. More than any sport. I think that's the intellectual sport, I think.

But also, baseball has this, and this is what I love, it's the most American thing I ever heard. It's why I became an American baseball, almost, I think. There's two reasons. One, when I was 13, I came to America for the first time.

I went to a bowling alley in Long Island, and I tasted root beer over crushed ice, and I thought, whatever the fuck this is I'm in I'm done I'm in and that sounds amazing oh it was great yeah and the other thing is in baseball when I heard that like you can swing and miss nine times out of ten you you you miss you fail nine times out of ten but if you succeed one time in ten at bat, you're a Hall of Famer.

And I was like, holy shit, I can fail nine times out of ten in America and I still have a shot at it. Now, obviously, I don't play baseball, but I felt like the ethos of that exists in the American psyche, if there is such a thing, that you can fail and it's just a swing and a miss.

That's all it is. There's no shame. There's no nothing. It's a swing and a miss. Next. And I love that. That's not everywhere in the world. Well, it's a failure sport.

I agree with you. Most of it is failure. But what about soccer? They have games where it's 1-0, and they've been kicking the ball all game yeah but that's a lot of fuss and and fuck all happens but isn't that a failure sport too like yeah it is a failure sport but it's not it's somehow look if you if nothing if you miss nine times out of ten in soccer, you're not a professional soccer player. Yeah, you are, because the goalies, I mean, not miss, but not score.

Not score, yeah. Not score. Maybe it's just I wanted to see it that way, but baseball, and maybe that's what it is. But it is a failure sport, because I turned my kids on to it, and they didn't like it. At least the boys didn't,

and my daughter played roller hockey for a while. What's roller hockey? It's just like ice hockey, but you're on line skates. It's outdoors here in California. Oh, okay. It's fun. Full pads. It's fun.

It sounds like it might be quite rough, too. Yeah. Yeah. Did you play football? I played football in high school. I did for a couple years, I guess. You're not a huge man. I'm not. You're a quarterback?

No, I was a tight end back then and an outside linebacker. Okay. I was average, but I was good enough to play, yeah. Yeah. I played a bit of rugby when I was... Oh. Yeah. That's a much rougher sport.

It's rough. Yeah, it's rough. And when I got to about 15, I was like, I'm not big enough. Yeah, I'm six foot two and a half. I weigh 220 pounds at the moment. I weighed maybe 200 pounds back then. Yeah. I'm not a small man.

No. But the guys who were shorter than me, but were made entirely of gristle. Yes. Just running you in. Oh, my God. Like, I can't take this. They're made of, I don't know what's going on here. Do you get that with football players as well?

I got killed. Well, the size disparity is even crazier in football. Yeah. Because you have linemen that are like 6'10 and 350. Jesus. And, you know, you're whatever you are, 6'0 and 190. Like, it's crazy. So I got pancaked a couple times in high school football and

of course got my bell rung, which is basically I got a concussion. Yeah, I had one of those too. My helmet hurt and my ears were ringing. You're like, you're okay. Just take a knee and get back out there when you're ready. I think you also know how to avoid it. You can be a coward on the field too. Oh, I'm up for that.

Me too. I'm not going to get... I didn't get pancaked often, but I got blindsided a couple times. Have you ever had... The time I got a concussion when I was playing rugby, I was so embarrassed because apparently one of the symptoms of a concussion is uncontrollable

sobbing. And I was like... And they said, are you alright right i'm like yeah i'm fine i just don't know why i can't i can't stop crying they were like but are you upset i'm like no i'm not upset put me in they're like you have to go and see the doctor oh thank god they did yeah yeah it was uh it's a weird weird thing, at least you didn't go back in the game or whatever. No, but you know, they still don't wear helmets for that, which I think is crazy. But sometimes they say it's safer because you don't risk headshots.

That's true. And it's a different game. Yeah, they had to change the way people tackle because people use their helmet as the pin of a dart or the pin of an arrow. Yeah. And really hurt people. That would be the temptation. Are your kids sporty? Is your wife sporty?

My wife's a good athlete. I don't know if she was. She was a cheerleader in high school. So her trajectory was drama and cheerleading. How did you guys meet? Did you meet at work? We met at a theater in New York called the Upright Citizens Brigade.

The one in Chelsea? It was at 26th Street. It doesn't exist anymore, but yeah, it was on 26th Street. There used to be an AA meeting in that one, I think. There very well could have been. Yeah, I think there was.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think I used to go to... Was it a basement below the Gelsons? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, that's it. Yeah, I used to... Apparently, if I was in AA, that was maybe an AA meeting. It's anonymous. You know what yeah, yeah. Yes, that's it. Yeah, I used to, apparently, if I was in AA, that was maybe an AA meeting.

It's anonymous. You know what I'm saying. Yes, sir. I'm glad we opened our doors to you guys. Well, yeah, it was, I remember always being at the meeting and thinking, God, I really should come here and see a show. And then by the end of the meeting, you're thinking, I think I've seen a show. I think I've had enough for the day. Yeah, I don't want to come back.

So, was your wife involved in drama? She was, she was an actor. She did a lot of Indies and produced like small movies with, she came out of high school and went to drama school here in LA. She grew up in the Northwest. And I think we met when she was still like doing some acting and some producing like Indies stuff. She doesn't do that now? Not really. She does a little bit of voiceover, but no. And she sort of like takes a lot of the care of the kids and stuff too. Yeah.

It's a huge job. Yeah. Especially in LA with the schools. Good God. I know. Oh, man. Our youngest, because we moved to Scotland, our youngest is not going through the LA high school system.

And I'm very grateful for that. You avoided all the meetings and targeting which school to go to? For the second one, for the first one. No, I did them all. It is. It's like you're going to college every three years.

You're like, okay, now the eighth grade tour for the junior, you know. And every teacher in LA, and it started at preschool, I remember, is the, this is the really important year. This year. I'm like, it's fucking kindergarten. This is where, you know, the trajectory of its life will begin here. I'm like, oh my God, really? I kind of feel like if you're going to shell money out for private schools, I kind of believe the early years are the most formative. But you're right, it is just play and love. They get a lot of love at these schools, just support. That's true. You're a psychology degree

right I have a psych major yeah right so that there is a lot of thought that like and maybe it is

the perceived wisdom the first five years are the most important is that right would you say that I think that's true yeah right

or I believe that's true well then I'm fucked you didn't go to school you were like a rabid wild child in the forest? The first five years were pretty tricky in my family.

Really? Yeah, I think so. Somehow your coping mechanism served you. Eventually, I think I managed to hook up with a bunch of people who helped me out. But I don't know how well I was coping. And I still struggle a bit. Yeah. This is an interesting thing.

We all do. If you go, well, how do you struggle? You weren't going to let that one go. You're a seasoned interviewer. You know, I struggle with like, what is the title of this podcast? Joy. Okay. Finding Joy is elusive.

Like, that's a great title for a podcast. is elusive. Like, that's a great title for a podcast. And I feel like I read all these books or, you know, spiritualism or religion or I try to like find ways to like challenge myself. And it just,

it always resets to like, I don't know what I'm doing. Despair sneaks in. It's just like there's no easy way. And I'm not complaining. It's just the truth. No, it's whack-a-mole though. I get it. Despair sneaks in. It's just like, there's no easy way. And I'm not complaining. It's just the truth. It is. And that I find that sometimes challenging. Despair is like putting up your arms and giving up. I don't know that I'm in that mode ever, but it's, it's challenging. You know, life can be like, certainly career is always challenging in this town. Like you look at, you look at this and you look at that

and then your lifestyle expects, you know, a certain amount of like income. And so you're like, what am I doing? And what's coming up next? And you're like, all right, I'll be okay. And there are those things and, you know. Yeah, I hear you on it. I mean, I was very aware of it when I lived in LA

that a certain point, I remember sitting down with my business manager and him saying to me, he told me the number the money that I had to make every year in order to not lose money because of how much my life cost and I was like, I'm fucking done

that's insane that's insane and that's when you packed up and moved to Scotland that's when the thought process began it took a little time especially getting out of LA where insane. And that's when you packed up and moved to Scotland. It's when the thought process began. I mean, it takes a while. Yeah. It took a little time, especially getting out of LA where, you know, the, the myth that LA, New York has its own legend, whereas, you know, there's a party going on. And if you're not in New York, you're not at the party. And in LA, their legend is you don't matter unless you're in LA. But interestingly, LA

is one of the most provincial towns I've ever been in in my life. Because outside the city boundaries of LA, I don't think anyone pays much mind to it. Because when you land here and you come in and you see all the ads for the different shows that are going on with people you know and don't

like getting jobs, and you think I never even heard of this shit. Right. But it really matters when you live here. Right. It's really interesting. It's a real Hotel California feel about it, this place. Yeah.

No, it is like, and unfortunately, we have three kids. And I think during COVID, everybody imagined, where could we live? Like, get out, see nature, start a new life somewhere else or whatever. And I think we've always like, like everyone did during that time. I feel like looked at different parts of the world or different lifestyles. We could be farmers in Vermont or we could go to, we could stay near your parents and start. But it's like our kids are friends and you're entrenched. Yeah, once you have teenage kids, you can't move them.

That's why I had that. My oldest boy went to college and my youngest boy was still young enough to move. Yeah, you hit the gap, right. So we just took that gap. Yeah, because talking about the schooling, the other thing they say is you're sort of buying a network, aren't you? Yeah. sort of buying a network aren't you like yeah yeah you said you you fortune you fortune into some lads or ladies who helped you out with your like deficit first five or six years of life let's say reparenting let's say yeah because in so some ways you're throwing money at the belief that this

network of middle class people let's say who have aspirations. Because you're buying your kid that network, in theory. Sure. And so I remember I went to college because my friend, at the end of my senior year in high school, was like, are you going to college? I'm like, I don't know. He's like, you should apply. And I applied in April and got the one state school that still had a slot.

But it was because my friend had that goal. I inherited his goal i was such like uh and my parents were like he'll probably go to junior college we weren't even talking about it like i would have figured it out but like i get how you're not necessarily buying the education but you're buying the values of the peer group that your children are associating with yeah i think that that's important that's why you see see all these people that go to fancy schools stay together their whole lives. It's infuriating, but I can see why it happens. I certainly want to make it happen for my own kids.

You get that outsider feeling. I don't know if you get it. But it's that outsider feeling of looking at all these people that know each other from Harvard or before. I used to get it in Britain all the time with Oxford and Cambridge. And I was like, fuck. And then you meet these people and spend time with them like Eric Idle or Stephen Fry or something.

They're lovely people. But I didn't know that. I just saw a door I couldn't get through. Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling, as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life and marriage.

I don't think he knew how big it would be, how big the life I was given and live is. I think he was like, oh, yeah, things come and go. But with me, it never came and went. Is she Donna Martin or a down-and-out divorcee? Is she living in Beverly Hills or a trailer park? In a town where the lines are blurred, Tori is finally going to clear the air in the podcast Misspelling. When a woman has nothing to lose,

she has everything to gain. I just filed for divorce. Whoa. I said the words that I've said like in my head for like 16 years. Wild. Listen to Miss Spelling

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Angie Martinez. Check out my podcast where I talk to some of the biggest athletes, musicians, actors in the world. We go beyond the headlines and the soundbites to have real conversations about real life, death, love, and everything in between. This life right here, just finding myself, just relaxation relaxation, this not feeling stressed, this not feeling pressed. This is what I'm most proud of. I'm proud of Mary because I've been through hell and some horrible things.

That feeling that I had of inadequacy is gone. You're going to die being you. So you've got to constantly work on who you are to make sure that the stars align correctly. Life ain't easy and it's getting harder and harder. So if you have a story to tell, if you come through some trials, you need to share it because you're going to inspire someone. You're going to you're going to give somebody the motivation to not give up, to not quit. Listen to Angie Martinez IRL on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Back in 1969,

this was the hottest song around. So hot that some guys from Michigan tried to steal it. My name is Daniel Ralston. For ten years, I've been obsessed with one of the most bizarre and audacious cons in rock and roll history. A group would have a hit record, and quickly they would hire a bunch of guys to go out and be the group. People were being cheated on several levels. After years of searching, we bring you The True Story of the Fake Zombies.

I was, like, blown away. These guys are not going to get away with it. Listen to The True Story of the Fake Zombies on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You go into psychology as a major, but did you ever think of actually practicing?

I did. I worked on a psych ward for... This is the show I've never done. You know how you write things or movies or scripts or books? All the time, yeah. I spent basically two years working, doing grad school,

doing comedy at night with my sketch group in an apartment with five guys in a two-bedroom. And then during the day, I was an adult mental health worker. Part of the nursing staff at a psych ward for 12 to 20-year-old teenagers with everything from suicide, eating disorder, gangbanger, court appointed.

And it was super intense. And I left college thinking I was going to be a counselor of some kind of psychologist. You know, not, I wouldn't have gotten through med school, but I could have been a, perhaps a psychologist. Does it call to you still, do you think? You know, I still am interested in it, yeah. And I think a lot of the podcasts I listen to or the stuff I find interesting

are in the world of psychology or philosophy. I think that I'm amazed, not amazed, I'm intrigued by how many particularly comedic performers, stand-up comedians, actors who are comedic in their people like you who are in that uh almost like a hybrid world of stand-up and improvisation and you know like creators of comedy if you like that are drawn that are actually philosophical thinkers deeply philosophical

thinkers because a lot of dramatic actors i get pretend to be philosophical thinkers. Because a lot of dramatic actors I get pretend to be philosophical thinkers, and they're not thinkers at all. They're people who say words and play dress-up with their friends. But the comedic thing is packed with it. Yeah. And I think that it's because

you're trying to decipher the world. And you send it through the filter of your own dysfunction if you like the the dysfunction maybe is the wrong word it's a judgmental but your own experience so for example you talking about you the spiritual things or the books that you read and stuff like that i became fascinated recently and i wonder if this is something you've come across or would be interested in, in the works of the Desert Fathers. Have you ever come across that stuff?

Fascinating. The birth of Christian monasticism in the 2nd and 3rd century before Constantine took on Christianity. Is this like the Dead Sea Scrolls or the Apocryphal sort of...

No, it's more to do with... The Council of Nicaea stuff? Before that, you're right. The Desert Fathers. Desert Fathers. Saint Anthony, you remember Saint Anthony that lived in the abandoned fort and then moved to a

cave and battled the demons in the cave for 30 years. I mean, it's fascinating. What part of the world are we? Are we like Jerusalem? We're in Egypt. We're in Egypt about 50, 60 miles south of Alexandria in the desert. We're in a monastery called Skeet and in the surrounding area.

And there's people like, but there's other people coming in. It's really the birth of the monastic tradition in Christianity. But before the church, this church is still being, you know, Christians are still being persecuted by Diocletian and whatever emperor is deciding that, you know, Christians are bad.

And so this Christianity, which I was fascinated by, because I'm a product of, you know, post-Reformation Scottish, you know, Protestantism. But when you look at this early Christianity, the Romans thought that the Christians were atheists because they only had one God. That was a problem with the Jews as well. They don't have one God. That's crazy. And then the idea of the Christians

were the first people that were desert fathers and mothers. Like women had a place in theological thought. And that was threatening to the Romans too? It was threatening to a lot of people because it was a change. But I think

most of what i was drawn to with the early christian christian fathers thing in that period was a guy called origin of alexandria who was excommunicated 500 years after he died because he came up with this thing which i thought was fascinating and there's a lot of different religions that have this. He said, there can be no physical representation of God, not even in the mind. So God is different. You can't have... Now, I think one of the reasons he was excommunicated,

because if you're the church and you're selling, you know, gigas and pitchers and tchatchkas, if somebody says you can't have a representation of God, then that's bad for business. So you can't really do that. I don't know if that's why he was ex-God. I'm sure there's much more theological reason, but he's just a fascinating character, and there's a bunch of them.

Is he saying because it's going to be different to everyone? Or there is no one conception? I think what he's saying is that it's like Augustine of Hippo said. It's that God trying to understand the mind of God is like

trying to pour the ocean into a cup. To use human sensibility for something like that you don't have the tools into a cup. To use human sensibility for something like that, you don't have the tools to manifest it. And also what Origen of Alexandria said, which I thought was sweet, but got him in a lot of trouble, is that he believed

in a philosophy of total forgiveness. Which meant, when they said to him, does that mean the devil too? And he said, it means everything. It means the devil too. The power of total forgiveness, which I think is a challenging concept. But, you know, and it was interesting because his father, Origen's father, was killed by the Romans in a Christian persecution.

And he became a Christian theologian. I'll check that out. They're fascinating people. And I became a Christian theologian. I'll check that out. They're fascinating people, and I'm probably not doing it justice. It's a big subject, and I'm kind of like dipping in and out of it in a non-formalized, non-academic way, but I am fascinated by it.

Augustine of Hippo, Evagrius of Pontus, Origen of Alexandria, they're just fascinating, fascinating guys. And women too. The Sayings of the Desert Mothers and Fathers. If you get, there are different publications of it. It's fascinating stuff.

And very epigrammatic. A lot of it is just like tweets almost. Yeah. Well that's like Marcus Aurelius is almost like tweets. Exactly, right. Like that book is really interesting. Fascinating. He probably wrote many things but whatever his... Apparently not. He probably wrote many things. Apparently not.

I mean, meditations. It was his journal. It was his journal that got published and saved and then put out later. It's so interesting. Yeah, it wasn't for publication. No, it was just him talking to himself. Which is amazing because me talking to myself is like, I don't know, does Matt like me or like me like me? You know what I mean?

It's like my diary would not help anybody, I don't think. It's also like they were so much smarter than us. Very literate, yeah. Just so like, so they knew so much. Like throughout history, like there's this arrogance about our modern time. We're so smart, but like we're not. Oh, no. We're so dumb and we're getting dumber probably. And it's like there was a book I was reading about Lincoln, and he-

I was just going to say Lincoln, because the way he talked. Yeah, but he figured out how to land surveying. He would work as a farmer during the day for his dad's farm, and then at night he wanted to become a surveyor. And surveying is all about math and angles and protracting. And the guy in the book says, you want to understand how smart people were that did this he's like just try to solve one problem and i found the book online i'm like i don't even know what this means like so it was just like an example of like it's um and like you read did you read the master and commander series

uh no i saw the movie with russell crowe They're fantastic books. My wife's read them and she talks about them. But they get into how he navigates with the stars or there's like something happens and they're in the ocean and they have to figure out how the fuck to fix it. And it's just what they know, like the captain of a ship, what he had to know is unbelievable.

Plants and stars and winds and angles and it's unbelievable. I think that what's interesting about it as well is because if you've got Google Maps, you're fine. Yeah. But here's the thing. Someone else figured out Google Maps. And I think a lot of the problems we are having now is

if someone else figures it out and you don't know it to be true, you're just taking it on good faith, if you like. This is the truth.. This is the truth. You know, this map is the truth. So it's gone from revelation, which is, you know, revelation experience where you believe what the priests or the clergymen are telling you because you have to,

because they know the truth and you don't. Then it goes to reformation where you have the right to read all the literature yourself and make up your own mind. But now we've returned to Revelation, where you just have to believe what you're being told, because you don't know for yourself. You haven't broken the code.

You haven't, you know. And we're being told by the algorithm, not by the clergy. Exactly. Yeah. It's crazy, isn't it? Well, it is. And how do you deal with,

we're covering so much, how do you deal with social media in your youngest? Because I have a daughter who's like kind of on TikTok and she discovered makeup recently. I'm like, I'm not, I don't like any of this. Yeah, I, we struggle with it a bit. I mean, I'm quite, I'm bullish with it about, he doesn't have social media accounts.

He has WhatsApp groups with his friends. Yeah. And that's allowed. But, you know, that's the youngest boy. The oldest boy. How old is he now? My youngest is 13. My daughter's 12.

And she got on TikTok. We took it off and she got on it again. It's like an ongoing. Yeah, I've been down that road too. And that's, yeah. It's hard and you don't want to be, you know, I don't want to be unreasonable about it because I trust my kids and they're good kids.

They are good kids. But, you know, there's bad people out there. It's like when I was telling my oldest boy when he was learning to drive, like, I know you can drive. I know you're good. It's not you I'm worried about. Yeah.

It's them I'm worried about. It's who's out there, you know. And it's also about'm worried about it's who's out there and it's also about enriching experience you get sort of one mind so you want to develop that mind to things that are like because you know

if you're in a YouTube wormhole for three hours or a TikTok or Instagram for two hours you just get like a hangover of like this is nasty you just feel nasty and it's not enriching. It's not, there's no nutrients in it. I agree.

And I have the, I don't have any social media. I pretend I do. You know, I pretend I do, but I pay a company in New York and they put out posts and they pretend they're me and I'm quite open about it, but it's not me. I'll stand still for the little videos and stuff like that. And I'll say the things, but I'm not there finding it but it's not me I'll I'll stand still for the little videos and stuff like that and I'll say the things but I'm not there finding out what you think about me I don't fucking take part in that yeah just in the same way as I I don't like if I get heckler what the fuck I'm gonna stop a fucking show and find out why you forget it and I treat it with great

trepidation not just for my kids, but for me too, I don't think that algorithm is right for the human brain. I tried it. I went on that Instagram thing where the little magnifying glass and you just scroll through different things. So you get, it's like this search thing or something, and you get a cat playing with a ball of wool, a rocket taking off, rocket crashing, war atrocity, cute animals cuddling each other,

you know, a funny piece of 50-year-old stand-up, old movie, tap dance routine, a horrible genocidal image. Like, oh my God, this is not, no, you know.

And the maybe half dozen times, if I'm honest, I did did it you disappear for like two hours yeah it's unbelievable yeah i'm like oh no there's no i mean if y'all can handle it good good for you but i can't and the other it's a hundred percent true but the other side of that is like i took great pride in like my son when he had an ipad and he was able to play this game with like, like Tom Cruise and the movie where they move a screen like this. Cause like computers are the future. Like they have,

they have to understand computers and like during COVID they were connected to their friends by FaceTiming on their iPad. And now my daughter like does homework with her friends on iPad. And so it's hard to get the screen out at this point. And she doesn't want a phone yet. She's cool with like, but she has her iPad after school. And the only thing she wants to do once she's done her homework is get on the iPad and chat with her friend

and then they'll play a dumb game or they'll talk about it. Maybe that's better than being at the mall. You know what I mean? It probably is. She's in her room and we know where she is. But the perfect parenting would be like go outside and climb a tree being at the mall. You know what I mean? It probably is. She's in her room and we know where she is but the, you know, the perfect parenting

would be like go outside and climb a tree or, you know, I would be making some creepy guys up the tree. I mean,

it's like, you know, I would be making her learn a piano recital or something. Like, I'd be pounding her that way, you know,

strictly. But anyways. I don't know that there is perfect parenting. No, there isn't. You just do the best you can. Like you said,

they're good kids. We really do have good kids, and I'm sure you do too. That's not easy either. So I'm grateful for what we have. And also, I'm not anti-technology. I'm certainly not anti-computers. I mean, I'm not even anti-AI. On this very podcast, I was talking to a surgeon

who was talking about the AI and how it approaches surgery and how much more accurate robotic surgery can be than human surgery and he was like I'm 100% for AI. The benefits are way outweigh the scare things about Terminator and stuff.

He's like that's not computers aren't interested. What are they going to do? Steal a beach resort or something? It's not like there's nothing in it for them. They're so much more consistent than human beings. Yeah, I agree. But it's just this unfettered imagery. I don't know.

I like to choose what I look at. Yeah. And I think sometimes with social media, I'm not anti, you know, technology, but I feel like that stuff, I haven't figured out how I could work with that yet or how I could be involved in it. And it's also the muscle of deep thought,

like in the way that like I can read really focused when I'm on an airplane. There's something about that fuselage and that hum of the engine. I can get lost in a book. There are very few places in life because I have ADD and because I'm not super intelligent or whatever. That's why

coke didn't work for you, by the way. Probably. No, I'm sure. It was like a Ritalin probably. I was addicted to nicotine gum for many years, which was my cocaine because it acts on the same center. But deep thought works for me in a maybe early morning for a moment or in a plane.

So I think all that scrolling weakens the deep thought muscle. I think you're right. It does for me anyway. I don't know about how anyone else does it, but I can. I think we're out of time here, to be honest. I think we solved it.

I know, are we irrelevant? Do we. I think we solved it. Yeah, we... I know. Are we irrelevant? Do we sound... Once we started talking about kids. I'm sorry. You know what the thing is about, though? I don't fucking care.

I've reached a point where I'm like, hey, look, nobody made you fucking listen. Well, it's like joy. You said your show's about joy. You're just searching. I think joy is like simple things, you know, stupid, simple things. Laughter, you try to find as much laughter as you can. And laughter, this is really cornball, but in that Lincoln book, his laughter was an act of bravery because he struggled with being morose and he was handling the war. And so him telling his, he was always telling stories.

Even his aides were like, Jesus, I can't be around him. He's always like, tell, all right, tell us the story. He was that guy, but it was an act of bravery too, because like you could focus on,

yeah, the war and it's, we're so screwed. And, or you could just try to like entertain and, and do something light. You gotta try and get some balance. A little bit.

Yeah. A little bit. Not easy. Yeah. All right, get the hell out of here want to know how to leverage culture to build

a successful business then Butternomics is the podcast for you I'm your host Brandon Butler founder and CEO of Butter ATL and on Butternomics we the podcast for you. I'm your host, Brandon Butler, founder and CEO of Butter ATL. And on Butternomics, we go deep with today's most influential entrepreneurs, innovators, and business leaders to peel back the layers on how they use culture as a driving force in their business.

Butternomics will give you what you need to take your game to the next level. Listen to Butternomics on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Butternomics on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life in marriage. I just filed for divorce. Whoa. I said the words that I've said like in my head for like 16 years. Wild. Listen to Miss Spelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Angie Martinez. And on my podcast, I like to talk to everyone from Hall of Fame athletes to iconic musicians about getting real on some of the complications

and challenges of real life. I had the best dad and I had the best memories and the greatest experience. And that's all I want for my kids as long as they can have that. Listen to Angie Martinez IRL on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.