Joy, a Podcast. Hosted by Craig Ferguson - Scott Aukerman

Episode Date: July 9, 2024

Meet Scott Aukerman, the founder of podcast. He began his comedy career as a writer and performer on HBO’s Mr. Show with Bob and David. In 2009, he debuted a comedy radio show featuring real-life guests and improvised characters, which is now called Comedy Bang Bang: The Podcast! In 2010, he co-founded the Earwolf Podcast Network. In 2012, he started a television series based upon his podcast, Comedy Bang! Bang!, which completed five seasons on IFC. Scott co-created and directs the Funny or Die series Between Two Ferns with Zach Galifianakis, for which he has won two Emmy Awards. Scott’s other credits include executive producer of the reality spoof series Bajillion Dollar Propertie$, and the sitcom Take My Wife, both now streaming on Seeso. He also executive produced and co-directed Michael Bolton’s Big, Sexy Valentine’s Day Special streaming now on Netflix. Do not miss this episode, enJOY! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling, as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life in marriage. I just filed for divorce. Whoa. I said the words that I've said, like, in my head for, like, 16 years. Wild. Listen to Miss Spelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Angie Martinez.

And on my podcast, I like to talk to everyone from Hall of Fame athletes to iconic musicians about getting real on some of the complications and challenges of real life. I had the best dad. And I had the best memories and the greatest experience. And that's all I want for my kids as long as they can have that. Listen to Angie Martinez IRL on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Guess what, Will?

What's that, Mango? I've been trying to write a promo for our podcast, Part-Time Genius, but even though we've done over 250 episodes, we don't really talk about murders or cults. I mean, we did just cover the Illuminati of cheese, so I feel like that makes us pretty edgy. We also solve mysteries like how Chinese is your Chinese food and how do dollar stores make money.

And then, of course, can you game a dog show? So what you're saying is everyone should be listening. Listen to Part-Time Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. When I do live gigs around the country, I'll be honest with you, I sell t-shirts and swag to the folks who are there. And then people always say, can we get the swag without sitting through a whole evening of you? Well, it's happened. It's finally here. You can buy Craig Ferguson merch on the Craig Ferguson merch website, and you can, it's happened. It's finally here. You can buy Craig Ferguson merch on the Craig Ferguson merch website, and you can buy it for yourself or someone you hate or someone you

love. For more information and link to the web store, please go to thecraigfergusonshow.com. That's all lowercase, thecraigfergusonshow.com. My name is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast is Joy. I talk to interesting people about what brings them happiness. Today, my guest is Scott Ackerman, who founded podcasts when he started Comedy Bang Bang. He is the funniest, cleverest. You know what? He's really, really, I'm a bit jealous. He is the funniest, cleverest. You know what?

He's really, really, I'm a bit jealous. And the fact that I can get along with him shows I'm making progress. I've just decided that I'm going to get plastic surgery. Oh, really? Where? Yeah, I'm going to start with my testicles. Oh, good. Because I feel like if it'm going to start with my testicles. Oh good. Because I feel like if it gets botched, it's testicles. People say, oh, you know, your testicles look weird.

First of all, not that many people see them anymore. Exactly. They're ugly anyway. Right, they're ugly anyway. And also they're weird looking. So if people say, you know, your testicles are weird looking, I go, yeah, they're testicles. Yeah, they're still weird looking. They're the undersea creature of my pants. Now, listen, I'm quite honored in a way that you're here. I'm honored to be here.

Well, thank you for saying that. We have a dual honor system going on. All right. Well, I'm not going to negate you saying that, although I feel like there may be a sentiment prior to that. I feel like you may be the architect of what we're doing here. You are the prime mover. You are the

god. Like the optimist prime? Yeah, I think so. You are of the comedy chat podcast. You made it happen. You're the Velvet Underground, man. You're the Ramones. I mean, am I disagreeing with you not yet

I don't think you should I don't think you should was it a conscious kind of artistic choice or did you just oh fuck it we'll just go with this

and see what happens I I mean I think I wanted to to do a radio show because I I just grew up very

obsessed with the radio right so like DJs I used to like tape my my own voice doing when I was like 13 doing just top 40 DJs and I would tape the songs off the radio and edit them in you know that's great what that is very nerdy a little bit I mean I'm a little concerned for you and we're going to get into that but now I'm a little concerned for you, and we're going to get into that. But now I'm beginning to see why you have comedy chops, though, because clearly, you know, the start out was strange and uncomfortable.

And my personal feeling is that you can't be funny at all unless the first 15, 20 years are deeply uncomfortable in some way. Oh, yeah. I started comedy in 95. Where are we now? 2025 almost? Yeah. I came started comedy in 95. Where are we now? 2025 almost? Yeah. I came to America in 1995. I was already 30.

What were you doing before then? Drinking, pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. And you stopped when you were in America? I stopped before I came to America. Oh, really? Yeah, I stopped when I was 29.

Really? What happened? Well, a bunch of stuff. I'm not quite clear on the statute of limitations. I think murder is the only one that still is going. No, I was, you know, it was sad. I was a sad alcoholic. You've been in show business for a while. Do you understand what sad alcoholism is? Sure, I've seen a few of those.

Yeah. And some people can make it work and some people can't. And I couldn't. I've always found few of those. Yeah. And some people can make it work and some people can't. And I couldn't. I've always found that really interesting the people who quit when they're, you know, like 18 or in their 20s. Yeah, that's impressive. But if you quit that young,

I feel like, I mean, good luck. I should have quit that young, but I'm glad I quit when I did because it was long enough to do some damage, but not long enough to fuck up. You've got me fucking monologuing. That's right. Got me talking about me. Turn the tables. You turned it, man. I don't want to talk about myself. Yeah, well, you're going to. So did you ever like fall into the alcoholism trap or crystal meth maybe or something? I've

never done. Well, okay. That's not right. But I, I've, I've never really, well, okay, that's not right, but I've never really done any drugs. So I did a podcast once where I went to a Phish concert with my friend Harris Whittles, who's no longer with us. Right. Big Phish fan. The premise of the podcast was him trying to get me to like Phish, the band Phish. Right. That would be a hard one for me because I me to like fish. The band fish. Right. That would be a hard one for me because I do not like fish. So I never did.

We did, you know, eight episodes or so. I never. You never got around to it? Never got around to it. But we went to Madison Square Garden to see fish. And I promised that I would do the whole thing. I would do drug. I'd never done any drugs before then.

I would do drugs. I would really do it the way a real Phish fan would. What age are you when you do this? God, how old was I then? I was in my 40s. That's late to start doing drugs. It's very late, yes. So I did as much like anything anyone gave me I would do. Right. And I never really got high. So...

Like, you didn't know what... I mean, do you know how dangerous that is? I don't know. Especially like, if you do that like, you didn't know. I mean, do you know how dangerous that is? I don't know. Especially, like, if you do that now, you'd be dead. The most that happened was at one point I went, those lights are pretty. You can hear me on the tape. And I was like, okay, I might have been high right then. Yeah, that's a bit of a tale. These lights are pretty.

These lights are pretty. These lights are pretty. You got a pretty mouth. It's one of those tale phrases. One of those tail phrases. One of those. Yeah. But I don't care for fish.

What kind of music are you into then? I imagine. Let me guess. I bet you and I are into a lot of the same. Well, first of all, I think this is for me. This is my fantasy about you. Oh, yeah. And I have many.

Is that you like Schubert. You know, is Schubert... He's a little ostentatious for my taste. That's even better that you said that. So what do you... If you're mixing songs together in 1995, it's what? I feel like the 90s was a terrible time for music. It was, yeah. I really love, like like 1977 to 1983 like post-punk electronic you know like

yes that's my main style of music that i really love but um that's what comes up in the little music thing on your phone that you keep going back to that right yeah but that's the stuff that i love the most everything else kind of branches out from that like nowadays for the past few months i've been trying to like buy every song that's on the r&b charts from 1980 to through 2000 you you left me behind there i i wouldn't even know where to begin with that i have like a billboard subscription so i just look at the charts for every week and just try to buy

every song that's on there. That sounds like collecting. Yeah, it's collecting. I'm a big music collector. Right. Do you collect vinyl? Do you have vinyl? Not really.

I never got, I mean, I started collecting music in vinyl in the 80s. In the time? In the actual time, yeah. But now I just, you know,

I have one record player that's in the living room. I have to go in there specially just to listen to like, you know, all the old problems of vinyl of like. Yeah, you have to sit down and listen to it. Sit down and actually. I know, but musicians love that. They're like, oh, yeah, no, you have to sit down and listen to the music. And you go, nah, I'll be running or playing pickleball.

Yeah. Do you play pickleball? So I broke my foot two years ago playing pickleball for the first time. My wife was like, you got to play pickleball. Yeah. People talk about, I never have done. You've done it? So I did it and I broke my foot.

First time? First time. I'm not doing it. And I've had a like fucked up foot for now two years. And I just had surgery on it two weeks ago. Oh. Really? Yeah.

So. Was it sleep surgery? Yeah. All right. Let's talk about the drugs. Okay. So what did they give you? Propofol? So they gave me the Propofol, and I've had this weird thing where every doctor who says they're going to give me Propofol has the exact same thing that they say about it, which is they say, it's what Michael Jackson had.

Michael Jackson, yeah, that's what they always say. Yeah, you'll love it. I went in a couple of times, and the first time I got it, I was like, hee hee. And I was like, whoa. Moon walked out of the place. It was amazing. But it is. I can see how a person can get hooked into a drug like that.

I guess, I mean, I don't really remember. I did wake up the first, because I had a colonoscopy with propofol as well. Oh, yeah. And when I woke up, I felt, I was was like i don't feel different and then i sent a really weird text to my friend adam scott that i thought was normal and then three hours later i was like what the fuck did i just send wow see that's you're not good at monitoring when you're high it's probably best if you stay away from drugs i gotta stay away because if you're like these lights are pretty yeah and not knowing you're high i know that you're like, these lights are pretty. Yeah. And not knowing you're high. I know.

You're high. What's the best drug though? My friend was trying to, because I was like, what's the best drug to take? And he was like, maybe liquid heroin that you just like swallow. Yeah, I'd say some kind of Oxycontin thing. That's why people die of it all the time because of the feeling is so euphoric and lovely. Yeah. Very dangerous. Yeah. Don't do drugs. No, I got for the foot. I got like a full bottle of Percocet. It's either Oxy or I don't know exactly what it was. I'm just afraid to take it. Yeah. They're tricky. I mean, like I know a lot of alcoholics would be sober for a long time

I mean, like, I know a lot of alcoholics who've been sober for a long time that screw themselves up on that stuff. I mean, and I'm, I mean, I didn't, but I'm very wary of it. Because I've now reached the, what Gore Vidal called the Cedars-Sinai years, where I kind of like, you know, I'm the doctor a little more than I used to be. Are you monitoring constantly like where the doctor is wherever you're at? Because I know you travel a lot. Well, I don't do that so much, but I'm constantly monitoring. Like you're younger. You're like 10 years younger than me.

Yeah, something like that. Yeah, 53. Okay, so I'm 62 on Friday. So yeah, nine years, right? And I think probably I was in my early 50s when I started to develop reasonably intense hypochondria.

But it's not really hypochondria, you know, if you're just monitoring things, I guess. Yeah, I'm at that age now where I'm sort of like constantly, anytime anyone, like a celebrity dies, I'm kind of like looking at their age, going like, I'm really close to there. I know. And like, I've noticed anyone under 50, people are like, this is a tragedy. So young. Anyone over 50,

they're like, that's about right. Yeah. Like if I died now, like right now, people would be like, well, you know.

I mean, I can see it. You know, 60, you know, he was, you know, and so they feel,

because you look for ways to feel comfortable, you know, when, when, I think that's why people get, look, I'm just guessing, but I'm thinking that's why people give look i'm just guessing but i'm thinking that's why people get into religion so much i know i know a lot of people are really super

into religion like the closer they are to death yeah the closer you get you're like well you know you need like some sort of meaning for it i can't do i've tried my heart is so hard to how did you then stop did you have to come up with a higher power? Did you do the program and stuff like that? Yeah, absolutely. And I do have a kind of God-centric belief system, I think, but it doesn't involve life after death. Oh, really?

No. So do you think that it's just like we shut off and that's it? I feel like it might be like propofol. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, you're just out. You're just out. Except you never actually wake back up. Well, there used to be on pagan tombstones before Christianity and the resurrection cult and all that.

They used to put on tombstones, I was not, I was, I am not, I care not. That was the RIP. I was not. A little wordy for a tombstone. Well, I think probably in Greek, it's probably a little. It's like, RIP is just like three letters.

You don't have to pay a lot. My wife is a Yankee, right? She's from the Northeast. I thought you were married to Derek Jeter. My wife is Derek derrick jeter which like you can't make fun of that yeah that's that's totally it's for you right but i'm just surprised i could come up with a yankee name if it is one i don't know i'm like i took a stab yeah hope for the best no my wife was like we're we're in Scotland and we went to my parents' graves, right?

So we're in this graveyard and it's a graveyard in Scotland. Now, graveyards in Maine or in New Hampshire or Vermont, it's like the person's name, a date, a hyphen, a date, right? But in Scotland, particularly in recent days,

it's the person's name that says, Margaret, beloved husband of Sandy, guinea pig owner and always like to take it like there's a whole biopic and like maybe sometimes a video a video on the actual tombstone the tombstone of like hello it's me i'm dead you know i mean i don't think it's that but it's you know i mean how long how long before that's obsolete i know you know what i mean i mean i feel like within 10 years the videos will stop working on these tombstones well and How long before that's obsolete? I know. You know what I mean? I mean, I feel like within 10 years, the videos will stop working on these tombstones.

Well, and also, I mean, it shows a profound lack of misunderstanding about time. Right. Like, you know, as people say, oh, no, you're like the Catholic Church had a problem with cremation for a long time. In what way? Well, they said you can't cremate the body because it has to be able to come back for the day of resurrection. You're going to need your body back. Really? Yeah.

So when Christ would come down with the rapture. Well, you know, it comes back with the, yeah. All the things. The trumpets and all that stuff. Right. So then your body, no matter what state it's in, in decomposition. Yeah. Yes, speaking in a word. And that, I think, was a problem.

It took them a long time. They had to have a big meeting about it and say... One big meeting? Okay, everybody... Guys, what are we doing here? Everybody step into the Pope's office. We're having a big meeting about the afterlife. Because Chico Marx was there, obviously.

Chico Marx was there, obviously. The Craig Ferguson Fancy Rascal Stand-Up Tour continues throughout the United States in 2024. For a full list of dates and tickets, go to thecraigfergusonshow.com slash tour. See you out there. I'm Angie Martinez. Check out my podcast, where I talk to some of the biggest athletes,

musicians, actors in the world. We go beyond the headlines and the soundbites to have real conversations about real life, death, love, and everything in between. This life right here, just finding myself, just relaxation. This not feeling stressed. This not feeling pressed. This is what I'm most proud of. I'm proud of Mary because I've been through hell and some horrible things. That feeling that I had of inadequacy is gone. You're going to die

being you. So you got to constantly work on who you are to make sure that the stars align correctly. Life ain't easy and it's getting harder and harder. So if you have a story to tell, if you've come through some trials, you need to share it because you're going to inspire someone. You're going to you're going to give somebody the motivation to not give up, to not quit. Listen to Angie Martinez IRL on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Back in 1969, this was the hottest song around. So hot that some guys from Michigan tried to steal it. My name is Daniel Ralston. It's the time of the season for the beast. My name is Daniel Ralston. For ten years, I've been obsessed with one of the most bizarre and audacious cons in rock and roll history.

A group would have a hit record, and quickly they would hire a bunch of guys to go out and be the group. People were being cheated on several levels. After years of searching, we bring you the true story of the fake zombies. I was like blown away. These guys are not going to get away with it. Listen to the true story of the fake zombies on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Want to know how to leverage culture to build a successful business? Then Butternomics is the podcast for you. I'm your host, Brandon Butler, founder and CEO of ButterATL.

Over my career, I've built and helped run multiple seven-figure businesses that leverage culture and build successful brands. Now I want to share what I've learned with you. And on Butternomics, we go deep with today's most influential entrepreneurs, innovators, and business leaders to peel back the layers on how they use culture as a driving force in their business. On every episode, we get the inside scoop on how these leaders tap into culture to build something amazing. From exclusive interviews to business breakdowns, we'll explore the journey of turning passion for culture into business. Whether you're just getting started or an established business owner,

Butternomics will give you what you need to take your game to the next level. This is Butternomics. Listen to Butternomics on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's talk about comedy influences on you was it the marx brothers i feel you're an absurdist in a way it was not the marx brothers for me it was when i was growing up it was like bob hope really yeah i'm surprised by that bob Hope was really big for me the road movies I love them yeah so great

they got very meta and surreal in a lot of ways yeah Steve Martin huge of course yeah

I was trying to explain to someone who never really had ever seen Steve Martin stand up or The Jerk

or any of his early movies just like how insane it was that someone was doing anti-comedy yeah really had ever seen Steve Martin stand up or the jerk or any of his early movies, just like how insane it was that someone was doing anti-comedy, you know, in the early seventies. He was, he was, it was very unusual.

He, to me, because right about the same time, the pythons were working in the, in the UK and that, that was, he seemed to be like an American relative of the goons and the pythons. And,

uh, that, that weird kind of almost born out of the surrealist movement comedy. Yeah. That it went, yeah, anti-comedy, I guess, is what it is. Yeah. Were the pythons for you? Yes, very definitely. Yeah.

One of the crowning achievements of my life, quite literally, actually, is that Eric Idle made me a crown. Really? Yeah, he made me a crown. Why would he do that? Eric marches to the beat of his own drum. He was coming on the show and he said, I've made you a crown. And I was like, oh, okay. And it's a crown and it's got a little roulette wheel on it.

Interesting. And I still have it in my hand so nice i walk around wearing it so i don't wear it it actually doesn't how many of the pythons have you interacted with um i've met michael palin and eric i know quite well and uh i think i've met no i never met please i talked to him on the phone once uh how about you you you told zero yeah never met any of them yeah they were they were big for me too when I was like 13 I was dating someone when I was 13

who was like you've never seen a Monty Python thing here and showed me holy grail and so that was like a huge thing

yeah I can imagine for you it feels like that informs like between two ferns and all that kind of stuff feels like it it's not the same

but it has like there's the cow that drops during the between two ferns yeah all that kind of stuff feels like it. It's not the same, but it has like... There's the cow that drops during the between two ferns. Yeah, the giant foot that comes down on Zach and all of that stuff. Yeah, all that stuff. But it's...

Other than that, it's not an influence. It's not the same at all. The naked guy playing the piano. Oh, obviously, the Spanish Inquisition comes in. No one expected that. Yeah.

All of that stuff is in there. I feel like that stuff, it didn't feel forced to me. It felt very kind of strange. But if I go back and look at old Pythons now, and I do from time to time, I'm kind of shocked at how there's quite a long time for me between inspiration and then other inspiration. I'm like, well, I don't remember this.

Yeah, it's interesting to watch anything that you grew up with where you're kind of like, oh, I don't remember this. It's, yeah, it's interesting to watch anything that you grew up with. Yeah. Where you're kind of like, oh, wow, some of it was riding on just like brilliance. Yeah. In between boring. A little bit. You know what I mean? A little bit sometimes.

But I think that's the, there was a time though. I mean, John Cleese is always banging on about this. Like there's too many executives and gatekeepers for comedy now and it makes it much more difficult to experiment and stuff. I think in the areas that he's talking about,

I think it probably is. If you're only interested in TV or movies, yeah, it's terrible. Yeah, you can't really do it anymore. But didn't you, you did the Al Yankovic

movie though, didn't you? No, no. You weren't involved in that? No, no, I was in it, but not. Oh right, you were though, didn't you? No, no. You weren't involved in that? No, no, I was in it, but not. Oh, right, you were in it, but you weren't. Yeah, Al was the band leader of my TV show for a year, for a season. Right. See, I think Al is related to all that as well.

I love Al. Al and Eric, I love very good friends. Yeah, right. Yeah. I feel like Al, though, the same kind of thing happened where he made UHF, and then, you know, he didn't make a movie for then 20 some odd years. Yeah. You know what I mean?

It comes around. I think it's a little bit like music, particularly if comedy is experimental or a little weird, a little strange. It goes out of fashion. Yeah. And then you have to wait for it to come back around. Comedy is very very very not in fashion in movies and TV

right now it's just it's just very very difficult to get something made so that's why podcasts you see Oppenheimer that's pretty funny it was pretty funny

that guy playing the bongos all the time yeah like hey Mr. Bongos enough we're making a nuclear bomb here yeah and Albert Einstein was there.

That was great. Oh, that guy. What's the coming ago? What's the coming ago? It's-a me, Alberto. I do think it's funny that they made Robert Downey Jr. wear that bald cap. Yeah. And he got an Oscar for it, for wearing a bald cap.

That's how you get him. That's how you get an Oscar. It's a pretty good bald cap, but... Yeah. Like, he should share it with the bald cap. Maybe he shaved it, because he's a proper actor. Do you think? Maybe.

I'd do it. I can't see him shaving his head. He's a pretty committed guy. You would do it? Well, I'd shave my head. I'd do it right now for like 40 bucks. 40 bucks. Yeah.

If you go 40 bucks, I'll shave my head. What would you do? Do you act much anymore? Not anymore. I get very impatient with it. Do you? Not really. Like one thing a year maybe. Yeah. That's it. I get very impatient with it. Do you? No, I'm not really

like one thing a year maybe. Yeah. That's it. I don't get asked that much. Yeah, neither do I. Yeah, I'm offer only,

of course. Yo, fuck yeah. Which means I never work. Well, yeah, because, you know,

auditions for me, I imagine, I hated that shit. I hate it. I was auditioning in the time in LA where you had to have the Thomas Guide map.

Yes. Yes. And you had to have the Thomas guide map. Yes. And you had to basically do three or four a day and they were all over the city going to Santa Monica and 11 and then back to the Valley. And it was casting directors lived in little bungalows in the middle of nowhere. And yeah, it was, and at a certain point, I think in like 1999 or so, I was like, this is wasting all of my time.

Yeah, the whole day. Yeah. You're sitting in the car trying to get a job you don't really want anyway, but your agent wants you to get. Yeah, so I just told my agent I'm not going to audition anymore. And so... So you're not long... You still with that agent?

No. But yeah, so I just found it like more productive to like write scripts and do stuff you know without well I kind of got in the same thing

because I was doing the Drew Carey show because I one of those things clicked for me it was run about 1996 right and then I found myself

like all I did like once a week is go and go Carey you're fired and then that was it that's all I fucking did you got fired every week on that show a lot of people don't know maybe you're awful and Kerry, you're fired. And then, that was it. That's all I fucking did. He got fired every week

on that show. A lot of people don't know. Maybe you're awful and Kerry, you're fired and everyone's terrible. Good day. And then I had nothing to do so I just would write

in my trailer. That's nice. Otherwise you go, but now- You can write in a trailer. It's very hard for me. Really? Yeah.

Trailer is my time. Yeah, I guess. I think it was because it was a job that went on forever. Yeah, I can only imagine. Eventually, you know. When you're on a show like that, you don't have a dressing room? You have a trailer? Well, you get a trailer, but it's outside the thing, and it's okay.

It was all right. I'm not complaining about it, but it's a little boring. I think now, with the invention of Instagram, I wonder how many scripts are not being written. I know. Yeah, it's so easy. You're basically writing on this thing that is the portal to fun for your brain. Right. You know what I mean?

And so I'm constantly writing on a computer and being like, yeah, but if I click on this on the computer, I can have way more fun. I know. It's actually, I think, maybe it's my age, but I feel like social media may be one of the worst things that's happened to human society in a while. I think so. Yeah. I think that, you know, so much of what has happened in the world over the past eight years has really been because of it.

Well, I think, correct me if I'm wrong, you're clever, right? You are wrong. That's how clever you are. But I feel like for democracy to be functional, there has to be a reasonably honest press. Right. There isn't. So it doesn't work. I mean... It doesn't have to be completely honest. So it doesn't work. Right.

I mean... It doesn't have to be completely honest. It has to be reasonably honest. I mean, there was always William Hurst or all these

motherfuckers, but it was... Now it's just there's nothing. Yeah, the problem is there used to be at least facts that we all

sort of agreed on. Right. And you would kind of go like, well, how do I feel about it maybe i liked it maybe i didn't like it but at least like we know what the facts are because you'd read it in the paper every morning and every paper kind of said the same thing you know right and now you know no one reads any papers you know they all just kind of maybe hear about something you

know from social media or something you know stuff and stuff becomes, like, real when it's not real. Like, do you remember the Mayan apocalypse? Remember that? I was concerned. Did we live through that? Yeah, 2012. Oh my god. How'd you fare in it? Well, you know, it was a tough time. It was so long ago,

I barely remember it. Yeah, the Mayan apocalypse, Y2K. Y2K. Y2K. Can you imagine Y2K now with social media? Yeah. Like, it might actually2K. Y2K. Y2K. You imagine Y2K now with social media? Yeah. Like, it might actually have happened. Y2K, I was always like, because I was in California at the time. I was like, it will happen in Australia hours and hours before. We'll know it's coming.

Yeah. Right. Like, so by the time, but everyone was still like, you know, trying to see what was going to happen. But all we had were computers back then, too's right phones and computers were powered by uh rabbits and yes smaller rodents on little wheels and the uh you had to use a i mean it was it was different remember conan used to do that thing in the year 2000 my love of it conan is that after the year 2000 he kept doing still the year 2000 genius he kept doing it. Still the year 2000. It's like, that's genius. Wonderful.

Did you, so you got your show after Conan had already been going for 15 years or 10 years? He'd been going for a long time. Yeah,

was he like an influence on you or? Yeah, I loved Conan and I, I was on his show quite a bit before I got late

and once I was, once I was up against him. You never could go again. Well, I did eventually when he moved on to the other one. was on his show quite a bit before i got late and once i was once i was up against him you never could go again well i did eventually when he moved on to the other one the tonight show or the no the conan the conan show yeah but it kind of it made it a little weird because now we're seeing networks well they the networks then were very strict about were they really yeah it was a different like remember like dave and jay were meant to be enemies and all that kind of stuff. And Arsenio was going to

kick Jay's ass. Yeah, and all that. It's funny because I do gigs sometimes with Arsenio and Jay. Really, together? Yeah, Arsenio, Arsenio Hall and Jay Leno

have been friends for like 40 years. So I was like, well, wait, weren't you guys fighting each other? I'm like, oh God, that's stupid.

I've always thought that because I did a fake talk show yes i i wondered if it would be fun to do a real talk show because i was always sort of like in my mind i was kind of like okay i'll do the fake talk show and then you know i was trying to springboard into something bigger in my mind and then all of tv just kind of shut down and yeah you know but then i've heard from friends that i wouldn't have enjoyed it but i wonder if i would have enjoyed it if i'd done it like you where it was just like a free-flowing conversation i think you would have been fine with i think you would enjoy it i think that because what i've heard most about it is is that people find it very boring talking to people that they don't care about. Yes. You know what I mean? Yeah, that is a thing. But that only happens if you have to talk to them about what they want to talk about.

But if you go into the, like, what I came to reasonably quickly is I thought, it doesn't matter. Once they get out there, what are they going to do? Not talk to me? So I would say, like, come out and start writing. You have to talk about the movie right away. So they come out and I would say, like, you have to talk about the movie right away. So they come out and I would say,

where'd you meet your wife? You know, and they're not going to say I'm not telling you. It's not a horrible question. It's a reasonable question. Would there be stars who like politicians

would try to pivot? Yeah, politicians in particular. I had like three or four on in 10 years and then I was like, okay, that's,

I'm not having it because these guys are so trained. Professional pivoters to just get back to whatever they want to talk about. like, okay, that's, I'm not having it because these guys are so trained. Professional pivoters to just get back to the, whatever they want to talk about. Right. So you say,

you know, where'd you meet your wife? And they'll go, where I met my wife reminds me of the time that, you know, and then. And we're having a lot of problems

with that in this country. Right, exactly. I was like, oh, fuck, I don't want to hear your shit. So you would not do any kind of pre-interviews

or anything like that? Well, they were done. They were done. They were done. So they were done. You were done. Oh, so they were done. You just wouldn't look at them. Yeah, I didn't look at them. I did it for... Well, in the same way that

when you were doing the fake talk show, constructing the interview the way you wanted it to be, I was just doing the same thing. That's why, when I would watch like Between Two Ferns or anything like that, I would go, well, that's kind of what I want to achieve here too

which is that and you know that kind of discomfort that kind of fun that kind of you know it's all and I feel like

late night talk shows are so produced and so overproduced now especially now you know that where you know that you'll have

four pre-interviews sometimes before you guest on one and they'll really be trying yeah they'll really be trying to focus in on the exact thing you're going to talk about. Oh God, that sounds awful. And that's why my show

and Between Two Ferns were so fun is because we would never tell the people what was going to happen and it would all just be in the moment. And I love that feeling of someone in the moment being surprised by something. It's more fun. Yeah, it's being surprised by something. It's more fun.

Yeah, it's so much more fun. It's more fun. And as long as you're not some evil kind of killer that's trying to hide something and you're barely keeping it in, that's not a problem. I think, although, of course, as we all know, Hollywood is packed full of evil killers that are barely keeping it in. Do you know what I love? It's when they say, you know, the Hollywood community get together and do that. And I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about? There's no community here.

Plus, I wasn't invited. Yeah, is that a thing? When they would say it, I heard someone say the Hollywood cocktail circuit. I'm like, are you fucking mad? There's more people in AA meetings than there are drinking cocktails in Hollywood. I mean, there is a certain, like if, I remember I had a publicist for a little bit. Right. And they really encourage you

to go to these just like things, you know what I mean? And they don't make a single lick of difference if you go to it or if you don't go to it. No, I don't think it does.

I think that what happens, it's a little bit like the executivization of things now that, you know, you and I both know this.

We've been on pitches together, pitches. It's like, you feel like, why are all these people here? I feel like there were like 18 people

on a pitch that we just did recently. And we're like, what the fuck is that? Look, if we get an audience this big, I'll be happy.

Yeah, you'll be fucking lucky. My favorite pitch that we did was for the Michael Bolton special. That special um that we did which was literally we did a mock-up poster of michael bolton shirtless on a bed and we took it to netflix and said it's just this they bought it and they were like okay yeah you know what i feel like I would have too. It's so inspired. Did you have to sell it to Michael Bolton?

No, he wanted to do it. It was more of like he approached Akiva. Do you know Akiva? Schaffer of the Lonely Island? I know who you're talking about, but I don't know. He's great. So they approached Akiva to see if if he wanted to do

some sort of special and Akiva said like well if I were doing it I would do like a parody of specials and I would call it like Michael Bolton's

Big Sexy Valentine's Day and I think I would want to do it with Scott because he would understand that he would understand it

and he does that kind of stuff on his show so like he goes I don't really know how to do it so Scott because he would understand that. He would understand it and he does that kind of stuff on his show. So he goes, I don't really know how to do it. So I think if we did it together, it would be fun. And they went, yeah, that sounds great to us. And it was. It was great. Yeah, it was so fun because we had no parameters of anything to do. And me and Michael Bolan

were great. It's what I think they're trying to do with these roast things. But I don't know why, why would you ever do it? I can't connect to it at all. Yeah. I mean, like,

like why would, if you're Tom Brady, right, why are you doing this? Well, I asked someone that exact same question the other day

and they said money. I think Tom Brady must have, he has money, right? He's got so much money. I can't be that. It must be like, it's quest for fame. He's pretty Yeah. He's got so much money. I can't be that. It must be like.

It's quest for fame. He's pretty famous. He's pretty famous. He's pretty famous. Quest for more fame? How much more do you need? I really don't know. It baffles me.

It might be a manifestation of greed. One of the seven deadly sins. Exactly so. of greed one of the seven deadly sins exactly so because i feel like you know if you look at just like straight up greed like you know people who have billions like jeff bezos or mark zuckerberg or right you know the like the big name money players i'm like what the fuck are you doing with all that how could you even yeah what does it matter at that point why why could you possibly want but you can in 20 lifetimes you couldn't get through it do you find that you like where are you in terms of like what you want to achieve

in life have you done it have you done everything or do you still no i don't think that you don't think so i don't think that's I don't think that's healthy have you so there are still mountains that you'd like to climb not necessarily in in career terms

you know like oh if only I could get you know that yeah I don't think I have that anymore but I think

I think that's I'm very grateful to Late Night and I wonder because you've been very successful in this in Hollywood as well in in a kind of sideways way that you probably didn't expect, which is exactly what happened to me. Yeah. I never expected to have a TV show.

At a certain point, I gave up. Yeah, I never expected to have really, I wanted, like, success was one thing. Like, you would be in a movie with Sandra Bullock or something. And that was how you'd be successful. And and and right with sandra bullock or something and that was that was how you'd be successful and so i had this kind of sideways thing but what it did and i wonder if it did this to you is it demystified the entire thing yeah the mensch to douchebag ratio amongst the mega successful is exactly the same as in the average denny's i think I I sort of once I got my TV show and then I won a couple of Emmys I would something in terms of career was like oh I don't need like it switched off for me where I was like

oh okay I kind of I did want to direct a movie so I I directed the between two ferns movie so i so i still kind of did you like doing that uh for the most part it was fun did it come out the way i wanted it to not really exactly what happened to me really i directed one movie which movie it was a movie called i'll be there i directed it in 2000 i wrote the script i'm in. I, you know, I directed the movie. Who else was in it? I don't like it. You don't like it? No. It's hard. It's very hard.

There's this like just kind of magic thing that you're, it's like a magic trick you're trying to achieve and then it's so easy to fuck it up. And people like my movie and stuff like that. I got the same thing as well. I won some awards here and there, but it was like, I'm kind of embarrassed by it in an odd way because I'm like that's not it's I'm not I guess I'm not embarrassed by mine as much as

I'm just like oh cuz yours is good but I but I do look at it and go like fuck if only I had known this like so many of like, fuck, if only I had known this. Like, so many of my projects are like, if only I had known this. Oh, yeah, yeah. In hindsight now, I know a different choice I would have made. Like, the only thing that I really have put out that I've been proud of just totally was, I think, my TV show. Where I was like, made all the right choices. I feel like I did

that's great I did the best I could yeah I did well yeah you know what I kind of feel the same way about mine too

about the late night show yeah it was like by and large I think that was that hit the spot yeah yeah

it's tough but yeah at a certain point in my 40s I was kind of like oh you know what I sort of don't have that clawing need of you know filling the hole in my 40s, I was kind of like, oh, you know what? I sort of don't have that clawing

need of filling the hole in my soul with career. Right, because you filled that, whatever hole that was, you got filled up with a couple of money. Yeah, a couple of Emmys and a bit of cash and you feel a little better. Don't let anyone tell you different. All awards mean nothing.

They do, but they're still nice. And if you've never won any award, you're kind of like going, it would be nice to get up there on stage and actually hold the thing. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And then when you get up there and hold the thing, it's fucking great.

And I did a funny speech. And you were excited and people liked it and were happy for you? Yeah. Yeah, I know. It's great. Yeah, I loved it. Yeah. I mean, would I do it again?

Yes! Yes, I would. Do they give awards for something like this? Can we win together? I don't know. Maybe. Probably. Can we hold hands as we go up on stage? Well, here's the thing. I got one. This is a great one. I got one from Scottish BAFTA, which

is the British Academy of Film and Television Arts, right? I knew the B. Right. So they have a Scottish one of it. SAFTA which is the British British Academy Film and Television Arts right I know the B right so they have a Scottish one of it SAFTA

SAFTA I think it's SAFTA BAFTA or something but it's the kind of divisional thing it's in Scotland it's like the

daytime Emmys kind of when I went for a game show I called my mom I said I want an Emmy for my game show and she called my mom. I said, I want an Emmy for my game show. And she went, uh-uh, daytime Emmy. Thanks, mom.

Thanks, mom. Yeah. Is your mom still around? My mom is, yes. My father passed away six months ago. Oh, gosh, I'm sorry. That's still very sore. No, it was all right. It was, yeah, it was okay. It was obviously a sad time, but it was like kind of expected. He's been hanging on since 1981, I feel like. Wow. What was...

He had a strange operation to take care of something in his throat. Pardon me if I'm not using the correct medical terminology, but I think throat is correct. Throat is correct. And procedure or something. Procedure, sure. Doctor. That's something that i've heard probable probable yeah um but uh it was supposed to be just a like minor thing and my mom came to the hospital and they said well we think he's gonna survive what and she was like what and like something with his throat had gone wrong and so they used part of his colon to to to be his throat they like took part of his colon to to make don't they need permission to do that um well who knows it's 1981 it's different yeah i'm not sure who

they would i think they called his like teachers at school yeah um but no yeah so they they had just to save his life they had done this right and so he pulled through it was like a weird summer i think it was 82 actually but um and but ever since then he just had issues with his throat he had to sleep like sort of sitting up at 45 degree angle and he had trouble gaining weight uh because food wouldn't get down there what age are you when this happens i'm 12 yeah so you're destined for a career in comedy because the trauma now is like it's right it's. I mean, it never really felt incredibly, I mean, I was shuttled around to parental friends that whole summer. Sure. But they never really told me how serious it was.

Right. So I think I was just kind of in my like, yeah, everything's great. Everything will be fine, you know, and it turned out it was relatively fine. But it was one of these things for 40 years. It was like an issue. Wow. That's a long time to be years. It was like an issue. Wow. That's a long time to be dealing with whatever mysterious thing this is. Right.

But my mom, why did you ask about my mom? Oh, yeah. Was she? Oh, because, yeah. Because of what your mom said. Well, yeah. My mom had the classic line when I was, I did musical theater when I was in my early 20s.

Right. And I did Curly in Oklahoma and she came to see it and she'd been to all my shows and she said, you were really good. I mean, for the first time, I felt like you actually

meant what you were saying. I was like, thank you. Yeah, yeah. Comedy is for you. You know, I mean, I've said this a million times

in this podcast, but it's like there is a resonance with humorists, whether they're male or female with their mothers. Um, yeah, I mean, my mother was very supportive. Sure. I'm not, there's nothing to do with a lack of love or support. But also backhanded. Yeah.

There's, there's a, there's a weird, I mean, I love my mom and she was supportive in the way that she understood. Is she still with us? No, no, she died years ago. She did not understand show business at all. Neither did my father. Did your family understand it? We grew up, you know, just 45 minutes south of LA. So I think that they, I mean, they sort of, it just seemed very far away,

even though it was only 45 minutes away, Hollywood. But my dad, I think, was sort of, it just seemed very far away, even though it was only 45 minutes away. Right. Hollywood. But my dad, I think, was very interested in it because he would sometimes like take me to lunch and pitch me like an idea for a show or a movie. Really? I remember once he was. What was his profession? He was a helicopter pilot in Vietnam.

Jeez. And then he flew privately for a little while and then he went into the aerospace industry where he would make like the overhead compartments for planes and stuff like that. So he but he I feel like he was sort of a frustrated artist in a way because he would like sometimes I would find he he had written like, newspaper columns, like, humorous newspaper columns. Really? Like, where he was trying to, like, you know, work out something, some sort of, you know, at his church, he would be in plays and he would sing and. Oh, clearly. You know, I feel like. It was an impulse. Yeah, for sure.

It was an impulse. And so I feel like he was, I don't know that he ever was appreciative of any of the stuff I made necessarily. But I think I worked on the movie Shark Tale for a couple years kind of thinking like, you know, I've done all this adult humor. Here's something my parents can appreciate. I took him to the premiere. And after the lights came up, my dad was like, well, that wasn't very good was it no it's like really okay that's funny is i my shark tale must be what almost 20 years ago yeah 2002 yeah because i remember taking my oldest boy to see shark tale when it came out and he loved it wow so we in the shark tale community thank him well you, you know, and I loved Shark Tale too, as I remember.

It was, was that Will Smith? Will Smith, Jack Black. Pre-slap Will Smith. Yeah, yeah. Post-slap, he hasn't done a lot of animated movies. It's hard to be the funny guy once you hit someone. I know. I always try to remember that when I'm frustrated. Have you ever been

close to being physically assaulted on stage or anything like that? I have been physically assaulted on stage. Really?

What happened? When I was drinking, I played a town called Dunfermline in Scotland. And this is stand-up?

Yeah, I did some stand-up that apparently didn't go down well with the locals. How did they? They came up and got me. And got you.

As I was trying to get out of town in a taxi, they threw a rock in at the back of the taxi, broke the window and I had to pay for the taxi drivers. Oh. Yeah, it was a very expensive evening for me. Oh no. But I survived. Have you ever been assaulted on stage? I was spit on once. I didn't know that.

I counted. I mean, then, yeah, a lot. Yeah, just spit on. There was one guy. That stand-up? You're doing stand-up at this point? That was, like, sketch stuff. Right.

Someone got very offended at the subject matter, I think. May I ask what it was? I can't really remember. It was something, I mean, this is like doing stuff at the UCB theater where like everything is kind of... Is that the one in Hollywood?

Yeah. I love that little space. It's such a good theater. Ben Schwartz got me to start going there. Oh, really? Did you do his show first? The Snow Pants?

Snow Pants, yeah. Yeah, Ben Schwartz, okay. So he asks me to do Snow Pants. And he goes, I know you don't really do improv, but I'm going to take care of you. Yeah, he's not going to do that. So I do it with J.J. Abrams. Right.

And I get out there and no one else is like stepping forward to establish a scene with Ben. So I know someone asked you, so I walk out there and I go, hey uh and i said i forget what i said and ben goes that's what you're gonna start the scene oh man i'm like you're not taking it and then jj abrams destroys and does like various scenes in different characters he does a singing improv bitch stop it it was that's crazy it really made me feel bad yeah that when i was doing i i did a couple of times with him. It felt like, I loved it though.

I mean, I felt like I was with the cool kids for a while. Yeah. I'm Angie Martinez. Check out my podcast where I talk to some of the biggest athletes, musicians, actors in the world.

We go beyond the headlines and the soundbites to have real conversations about real life, death, love, and everything in between. This life right here, just finding myself, just this relaxation, this not feeling stressed, this not feeling pressed. This is what I'm most proud of.

I'm proud of Mary because I've been through hell and some horrible things. That feeling that I had of inadequacy is gone. You're going to die being you. So you got to constantly work on who you are to make sure that the stars align correctly. Life ain't easy and it's getting harder and harder. So if you have a story to tell, if you come through some trials, you need to share it because you're going to inspire someone. You're going to give somebody the motivation

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Want to know how to leverage culture to build a successful business? Then Butternomics is the podcast for you. I'm your host, Brandon Butler, founder and CEO of Butter ATL. Over my career, I've built and helped run multiple seven-figure businesses that leverage culture and build successful brands. Now I want to share what I've learned with you. And on Butternomics, we go deep with today's most influential entrepreneurs, innovators, and business leaders to peel back the layers on how they use culture as a driving force in their business. On every episode, we get the inside scoop on how these leaders tap into culture to build something amazing. From exclusive interviews to business

breakdowns, we'll explore the journey of turning passion for culture into business. Whether you're just getting started or an established business owner, Butternomics will give you what you need to take your game to the next level. This is Butternomics. Listen to Butternomics on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I was at UCB. I mean, you were part of UCB, right? Yeah, I produced a show there for about 10 years. at UCB I mean you're part of UCB right?

Yeah I did I produced a show there for about 10 years I was always very jealous of that because I I felt like that's the cool people

It was fun I mean we obviously would have had you come do it if you know we had known how to reach you

who you were No we had people like Robin Williams hung out there for a long time and would come do shows with us Robin

I became friendly with Robin after he was on the Late Night Show and he, I mean obviously everybody knows this, but he loved to just get up at any time. He was very supportive. He would sometimes watch shows that we were doing and I would say like, do you want to come out and do it? He goes, no one wants to see me. You guys are doing fine by yourself. I think that's lovely. He would just want to watch, you know. He was a lovely, did you become friendly in any way? Did you spend any time with him?

Friendly in a way of like, I did a few shows with him. He would know who I was when he saw me, but, you know, not ever like hanging out other than backstage. Right. Yeah, I suppose that was the extent of my hanging out with him as well, was backstage with the others. But he, yeah, that was a tough one. Right. Yeah, I suppose that was the extent of my hanging out with him as well, was backstage at Theaters. But he, yeah, that was a tough one.

Yeah. When Robin went. So nice, yeah. He was really nice. And he was a guy like another influence, you know. Yes. I told him about the day

he did work from work on Happy Days. And I was a huge, a huge Happy Days fan. And I'm probably nine or 10 or something like that. And I remember being on errands with my mother the next day and she hadn't seen it and telling her the entire plot with every joke of him on Happy Days.

And we were going through like a checkout line and the checkout person goes like, sounds like someone saw Happy Days last night and it made me feel kind of bad. Anyway, I told him that story. I told him that story on stage and there's a funny picture of him like with his hand on my knee

saying like, oh, thank you so much. It's funny because he was one of the non-demystifiers for me. The other one was Carrie Fisher. Someone that you admire so much and then you meet them and they don't disappoint you. That, I think,

is one of the dangers of being in show business, particularly if you're doing what you and I have done in kind of slightly different ways, which is interacting with a lot of people that you've probably been aware of for a long time. Yeah, every once in a while,

there will be someone that you work with that you've really grown up loving, and it'll be kind of a bummer. I don't want to say any names. No, of course not. Like Craig Ferguson. Yeah, exactly. But you know what's weird now is I get people say to me,

I grew up watching you. And I'm like, and they're like 40 I'm like what the hell are you talking about I get it too yeah it's like oh my god but

I uh I don't know there was on late night I would never allow the bookers to even approach David Bowie just in case really

just in case because just in case he said yes just in case he said yes and by all accounts apparently he was great but I don't know you hear so many stories of him uh like i just heard i feel like dave wakeling of the english beat just told the story last week of like there's a name i haven't heard

in a while yeah i just saw him performing he was like yeah i met david bowie at whatever after doing a show and he ran up to me and said I want you to be my opening act you're the greatest opening act I've ever seen or something like that and it's kind of like

sideways compliment yeah you're not one of them you're not a headliner but you're I think he was daytime man but um

yeah by all accounts great but yeah it's I've been disappointed a couple of times with people and it's with people. And it's hard not to watch them. I'm good at compartmentalizing those. So I can still find stuff. People ask me like, why do you still, can you still listen to Michael Jackson records? much of art is a conversation i feel like between not only the artist but also your your younger self when you first heard it or watched it or something yeah i mean it's a great topic and one that fascinates me is the art and the artist so the the idea of you know like uh picasso would probably be in jail for his relationship with Marie Therese.

But, you know, it was, what do you do with that? It's, everyone's gone. And at this point, yeah, everyone's gone. Like, Michael Jackson is gone, so I don't feel like me listening to his music is supporting him financially or anything like that. Even like, so, R. Kelly. He's in jail? He's in jail. So. He's not making money. He's not making money. Are you a big R. Kelly fan? I in jail? He's in jail. He's not making money.

He's not making money. Are you a big R. Kelly fan? I wasn't really aware of much. I mean, you know, can you listen? Anyone like that who is a monster. Right, right. Is it still okay? And I think Nick Cave had-

Pulp Fiction, Harvey Weinstein. Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean? It's like, what are you going to do? Nick Cave had an interesting thing to say about this, because I think he was talking about Morrissey and how like right-wing Morrissey is now. Yeah, he's gone a full Churchill.

He's made the full journey. And so, and I think he was saying like, so much of music is just like thinking about how you felt when you first heard it and thinking about your younger self and stuff like that. So he was saying like, it's not... And also where the artist was at that time too. I mean, look, you've been doing this for long enough

to surely have written something that you look at it now and go, oh, fuck, I would not write that now. When Mr. Show went on HBO Max, I got a lot of people going like, oh my God, I'd never seen Mr. Show. And I was catching up with it. And I'm always like, not at all.

1990s. I loved Mr. Show. Mr. Show was just coming on. I had moved to America in 95. And Mr. Show coming on. And Bob and David, I felt like I'll never be cool enough to even meet those guys. Did you ever actually then meet them?

Yeah, and then I met both of them. I'm pretty cool. It's fine. I don't know how cool I am, but I'm cool enough. They're not very cool either. It's funny that I remember one of the last, Bob Odenkirk, his son went to the same school as one of my boys went to.

Oh, wow. And he's a little bit older. Nate. Yes. And I was at the parking lot the first day of when my son started going to the school. And we were at the school bus and I got out with my son and got him onto the bus. And Bob was still in his car because he'd been doing it for a year. And I was walking back to my car and he wound down the window

and he said, nobody gets out of the car, Craig. I'm characteristically aggressive for Bob. There was humor in it. Yes, of course, but he's not really one of those aggressive people. No, no, he's not at all. He's so, so...

I kind of... I think it's an age thing maybe as well. Do you find now that you think, nobody and David, were definitely like huge. One of the reasons I started just doing comedy anyway is because I saw one of their shows at the same time that like three things happened. I saw their show. I watched an Andy Kaufman special. Right. And then my friend that week said, hey, I hate your latest script, but my roommate's a comedian, and I've always thought maybe you could do comedy. Do you want to do the comedy store in the show that she's in?

I was like, yeah, okay. Like, those three things happening in the same week were. That's a sign of a prime mover in your life. Do you have a religious, and you talked about your dad going to church. I wondered if there was anything... Yeah, I grew up in the church. Which church? Like Baptist church. Okay, so a fairly joyful setup, is it?

More than Scottish Presbyterians, I think. Yeah, oh yeah. Were you, I mean, like the rituals and the... No, there's not that much really. Was there like liturgy of the Eucharist? Probably. Yeah, I mean, there's the biscuit, but it doesn't turn into Jesus.

It just represents Jesus. That'd be the same with Baptists. Yeah, we have the tiny, tiny, like little wafer. Tiny little wafer. Well, nobody's getting a burger. See, maybe I would go to church if it was like,

hey, everyone gets a burger when you're here. Well, I'm sure there are some. Do you have a religious connection now? Is it something that you... It was one of those things where I grew up and it was just accepted as like, this is true. Right.

And I always had this voice in the back of my head going like, yeah, but these are really weird stories that... Yeah. You know, like the whole... Okay, so God is perfect. So, and humans chose to sin. So in order to make it cool for humans to go up to heaven after they die, God split himself into two and made himself also his son.

Yeah. And then sent his son down and his son could have sinned, but he never did. And then they killed him. And then he came back down for a spell. Like how, when, well,

when you say it like that, it sounds silly, but, but it, I just always was kind of like, I don't understand. None of this is really making sense to me. Did you ever read Julian by Gore Vidal?

I highly recommend it. Who's it about? It's about Julian Lennon. Julian Lennon. It's about Julian Lennon, which is weird. Because I'm like, he was just a kid when he wrote this, Gore. Do the John Lennon biography, Gore Vidal. You're a good enough writer.

He wrote it in 1964 when Julian Lennon was maybe two years old. He hadn't done a lot. Yeah. It's about Julian Augustus, Julian the Apostate, who after he was the Emperor Constantine's grandson. So there was Constantine and Constantinus and then Julian, the Emperor. And he was the last Augustus of the whole, before they split it, you know, one in the east, one in the west.

And he tried to return the Roman Empire back to Hellenistic, you know, pagan religions, Zeus and Apollo and all that stuff. And he was doing all that. His feeling was that... Had everything since... Everything was Christian at that point. Everything was Christian. Yeah, because he was trying all that, his feeling was that... Had everything since... Everything was Christian at that point. Everything was Christian. Yeah, because Christ was trying to go like...

He was trying to get it back. Enough about this Christ guy. Remember all these great people that we... What about the ones we used to have? You know, like Apollo, Zeus, all those guys. And he tried to bring that back, but also allow Christianity. but also allow Christianity. Because Rome, contrary to what you hear now,

they had no problem with what religion you were. It was about if you paid tax or not was the real problem. But the way that Gore Vidal writes it is a real, I mean, it's scathing about Christianity, scathing about the birth of Christianity. Not the birth of it, but the incorporation of it. Yeah.

I don't have a, I really don't have an issue with anything that makes a person feel peace or comfort. I agree. I get nothing against it. Even stuff like Scientology, I maybe have quibbles with some of their methods.

I can quibble with a lot of it. Sure. But in terms of a belief system, if anything makes someone feel better, I think I'm fine with it. What I just really don't like about everything is trying to make everyone else exactly the same, what they are.

Yeah. It's like you got to believe in what I believe. Yes. Or you are an apostate and are the enemy yes so so america as far as i'm concerned is like supposed to be everyone believe whatever you want and we'll all get along right that's the idea that's the idea and where you know even if you have a neighbor who's like sort of cuckoo you're like hey we still care for you you're you're fine yeah but what's the trouble is is like the people who who inform their religious beliefs on laws and

stuff like that is where it starts to be like look i understand you don't believe in abortion that's great so don't get an abortion right you know what i mean like but don't don't start to just impose your stuff on on us you know it's it's abortion is a really really tricky one because you're never going to change anyone's mind yeah and and that's that's when you go it's a real gurdy no i don't know how you get through that it's so weird because it wasn't even like really an issue until there was this yeah until it was well i don't know. I mean, you know, do you remember the movie dirty dancing? Yeah, I do. As a matter of fact, yeah.

Cause then that they got a pretty good story about abortion and dirty dancing. And I, in fact, everyone should see that movie again. Yeah. Cause it, cause it goes okay. But also, you know, okay. You know, that's what I love that should have been on the poster Dirty Dancing

also okay but also but okay but this is why my movie sucked because the long line was okay but

do you remember the tagline of your movie? was there one? do you have the poster somewhere? oh fuck yeah I'm sure somewhere I think mine was there's nowhere he won't go. Oh, God.

I did one for Warner Brothers. This is a movie that I actually was quite proud of. I didn't direct this movie, but I did a movie called The Big Tease, which was about a Scottish hairdresser that comes to Los Angeles to take part in the world hairdressing competition. Oh, I sort of remember this.

Yeah, who played? I played the hairdresser. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I stand by the movie. It's a funny movie. But because it was 1998 and the character I was playing was gay

and a sympathetic character, there was no gayness other than he was a gay man. But it was an R. It was rated R. Just for the fact that it was... Just for the fact... Mature content.

The fact that he was gay. But there was no mature content. It was just the fact that it was just for the fact sure content but there was no mature contact it was just the fact that he was a gay character this is before will and grace was on tv or anything like that and the i wanted to put on the log line of the poster he came he combed he conquered right right they wouldn't put it on because they said he came sounds like he came right sex and he's gay i'm like what so the on the log like it says he saw he combed he conquered like that doesn't make any sense at all it's like you know how you get pringles the lovely sure chip out of a can right well you know in like the dollar stores they sell prongles and on prongles it doesn't say speaking of they came right he doesn't say like it on the pringles it says once you pop you can't

stop right get prongles it says once you pop that's great Once you pop That's great And that you came It reminds me of Married to the Mob Oh yeah I remember that movie The headboard in that Just says Vidi vidi vidi

Really Because that's where He has sex with his guma Oh It's just I came I came I came Very

That's very clever That's very funny That's a good Latin joke Well listen So here's my pitch to you Make a Make a mini series Of Julian the Apostate by Gore Vidal. I think it could be hilarious and also a little bit Game of Thrones-y.

Interesting. I mean, you look at stuff like Game of Thrones and Shogun and stuff like that. It could be very, very popular. I don't know why anyone would want me to do that. Well, because you're clever and what you make is good. That's why I would want you to do it. I haven't even read the book, though, at this point. That doesn't matter.

I've read it. So I've read the book. Can you be on set at least? Yeah. Telling me what I'm doing right or wrong? I'll be around to go, wait a minute, on page 42 it says this. And you can go, all right, then we'll change that. All right, we'll put that in.

Yeah, yeah, we'll do that. It's been a joy talking to you. I wish we could go longer. Can we do it again? Yes, I would love that. Yeah, all right. And if you ever would want to do my show

I know it's a lot of 100% ridiculousness no I 100% would want to do your show and actually this is I kind of

now legally you have to have me on because you invited me it's a podcast swap of course yeah yeah that's right it's what they used to do

sitcom crossover episodes right yes yeah did you see the Two and a Half Men CSI crossover episode no I didn see the two and a half men csi crossover the writing staff from csi wrote the two and a half men and vice versa oh my god it's insane you know i did one with the big bang theory oh interesting where i with the big band oh meaning your show on the big bang yeah and i went on the Bang Theater. Was I on it or were they on me?

I can't remember, but we were on their set and I had applied for the job to be Sheldon's friend. And I didn't get it. It was like one scene. I'm like, oh, fuck.

We were trying to do one with Marc Maron's show on my show. Oh, yeah? And he shut it down. Did he really? Yeah. But it was going to be,

like, because we were back to back and I would love that when I was young watching two shows interact, you know? So like he was going to be on my show and then I was going to be on his show and then eventually it all just like went away because he didn't want to do it but it was... I did one with Drew Carey on The Price is Right and Miso as a special really wacky thing. Price is Right and my show. As a special, really wacky thing, CBS let me host the Price is Right

and let Drew host my show. That's fun. You know, it wasn't bad. Was it fun to host the Price is Right and do all those games and stuff? It really was. Was it really?

Yeah, I felt like I was like, I got a short drive in the space shuttle or something. It's amazing. I think when celebrities, you see them on these game shows these days and they all have to play for charities. It's like. I think when celebrities, you see them on these game shows these days and they all have to play

for charities. It's like, let them keep the money. Let them keep the money. You know what I mean? And then I'm in. Yeah, exactly. Like, I give money,

Jerry. Sure, yeah. You'll make some. You'll give 10% of it maybe to charity. Like, let's have celebrities give, you know, 10% to charity

and the other night he goes to the celebrity. And the other night he goes to the celebrity because that's why you're warned. Yes, exactly. I think that's fine. All right, well, we got that sorted.

You'll see me next on Comedy Bang Bang. Yes, see you then. See you. Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines We'll see you next time. I just filed for divorce. Whoa. I said the words that I've said like in my head for like 16 years. Wild. Listen to Miss Spelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Angie Martinez, and on my podcast, I like to talk to everyone from Hall of Fame athletes to iconic musicians about getting real on some of the complications and challenges of real life. I had the best dad and I had the best memories and the greatest experience. And that's all I want for my kids as long as they can have that.

Listen to Angie Martinez IRL on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. For 10 years, I've been obsessed with one of the most bizarre and audacious cons in rock and roll history. We were all facing 20 years and all that good stuff. The lead singer tried to pull off an English accent, and they went on the road as the zombies. These guys are not going to get away with it. The zombies are too popular. Listen to the true story of the fake zombies on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts.