Joy, a Podcast. Hosted by Craig Ferguson - Susie Essman

Episode Date: August 6, 2024

Meet Susie Essman who needs no introduction! She is best known for her role as Susie Greene on Curb Your Enthusiasm. Susie talks to Craig about her stand up career and why she is not doing it anymore, her growing up in the Bronx, the family dynamics and of course everything Curb Your Enthusiasm. Absolutely do not miss this episode and check out her podcast titled The History Of Curb Your Enthusiasm With Jeff Garlin & Susie Essman here. EnJOY! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling, as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life in marriage. I just filed for divorce. Whoa. I said the words that I've said, like, in my head for, like, 16 years. Wild. Listen to Miss Spelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Angie Martinez.

And on my podcast, I like to talk to everyone from Hall of Fame athletes to iconic musicians about getting real on some of the complications and challenges of real life. I had the best dad. And I had the best memories and the greatest experience. And that's all I want for my kids as long as they can have that. Listen to Angie Martinez IRL on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Guess what, Will?

What's that, Mango? I've been trying to write a promo for our podcast, Part-Time Genius, but even though we've done over 250 episodes, we don't really talk about murders or cults. I mean, we did just cover the Illuminati of cheese, so I feel like that makes us pretty edgy. We also solve mysteries like how Chinese is your Chinese food and how do dollar stores make money.

And then, of course, can you game a dog show? So what you're saying is everyone should be listening. Listen to Part-Time Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. The Craig Ferguson Pants on Fire Tour is on sale now. It's a new show. It's new material, but I'm afraid it's still only me, Craig Ferguson, on my own, standing on a stage, telling comedy words. Come and see me buy tickets, bring your loved ones or don't come and see me. Don't buy tickets

and don't bring your loved ones. I'm not your dad. You come or don't come but you should at least know it's happening and it is. The tour kicks off late September and goes through the end of the year and beyond. Tickets are available at thecraigfergusonshow.com slash tour.

They're available at thecraigfergusonshow.com slash tour or at your local outlet in your region. My name is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast is Joy. I talk to interesting people about what brings them happiness. I talk to interesting people about what brings them happiness. I love my guest today. She is part of the ensemble that made, for my money, maybe the greatest television program ever on American television, Curb Your Enthusiasm.

Susie Esserman is here. Go fuck yourself. Do you ever play golf? No. I've gone to the driving range, which is fine. But to sit out there for five fucking hours? I hear you. I can't imagine what's interesting about that. I only like to play golf on my own,

which apparently is not the way you're meant to do it. I think that's the exact way you should do it. I'd like to know. Because your competition should be yourself. Right, and also you fuck up. You don't get some guy going, and then you can bet and then win every time. You always win the bet.

And if you lose, who cares? If you lose, it doesn't matter. You walk in, it's like going fishing. You go, yeah, I caught it. I threw it back. It's fine. You got three holes in one. It was awesome.

Isn't it a wonderful thing to be able to lie to yourself? I think it's an essential component of mental health to be able to tell yourself bullshit about yourself and then believe it. I look in the mirror and I go, you are fucking awesome. Well, you are, though. Look how handsome you are. Well, you know, you see that. Now, what you're doing there is you're participating in my delusion. In your delusion.

I want to say this. It is a word of congratulations because you are an essential component, which for me is one of the few perfect television shows ever made ever made yeah it's amazing to me it's amazing to have been a part of it all these years it really has and who you know it's like we never knew this was what it was going to be it was just such a nothing thing when we started, you know? I don't mean nothing thing. I mean, it was just this small little

low, but we had no budget. We had nothing. Yeah, I remember when it started and I was like, oh, Larry David's doing this thing. And I wasn't really aware of, I knew Seinfeld of course, but I wasn't really aware of Larry as a kind of performer. That was the whole point of doing it, I think. Yeah,

of course. But then, when I was like, oh my God, this guy's horrible, but I can't stop watching it. And then, I think as the season goes on, either I got more horrible or Larry got much nicer, but either way... You didn't get nicer, you just got used to it.

I got used to it. I think that's what it was. But, you know, the truth of the matter, he hates when I say this, but he's such a good actor. He is, yeah. He's such a good comedic actor. He's all mud acting, but he is. He's full of shit. Of course he is.

Because he's not really like that in real life. No. He's the least confrontational person I know in real life. Well, I think also, I remember Larry was on the Late Night show when I was doing Late Night. Yeah, he came on that, and he was great. But I could see he was kind of like, what the fuck is going on here?

Who is this guy? Well, he started as a stand-up. Yeah, I know. That's where I know him from. Did you work and do club dates with Larry back then? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Jerry was working back then as well? Yeah, yeah.

So where were you guys working? Catch a Rising Star, you know, the improv, the comic strip. I was going to say that, you know, do you remember Lucian Hold at the comic strip? Of course I remember Lucian. Lucian Hold was the guy giving me my first job ever when I came off the boat, basically. Really? Yeah. Lucian was a very strange yet wonderful man.

Yeah, I didn't get to know him very well. But he was a very strange guy. Was he really? He booked the acts for the comic strip. For the comic strip. And he actually was the first one to pass me. You know, you had to audition and pass in those days. And he was the first one to pass me.

And he gave me very, in the beginning, he gave me very protected spots. Like, he put me on first, like a nine o'clock spot. Right. And he wouldn't give me the 2 o'clock in the morning. So he was good to me. Does that exist now, that kind of... I don't know. I think that a lot of kids now when they're starting out, because I

talk to young comedians sometimes on this podcast They have to bring audiences. They have to bring audiences and they have to bring their Tickety Talk followers. Do you do all of that? No. Well, I don't do stand-up anymore, but I haven't been in the clubs for years. You don't do stand-up anymore but i haven't been in the clubs for for years you know i mean you should well maybe i should hey get out do it have a little fun get it off your chest i'd have to write a whole new act maybe i will i used to say no but yeah well crowd work was always my my default and that kind of

crowd work made me lazy yeah it does make you lazy because i was really good at it so i didn't have to you know but now it can be a thing yeah you can just go out do some crowd work and that's all you do maybe i will craig maybe you're my inspiration maybe i could introduce you i could like open for you and i'd say coming up now she hasn't done it for a while she has no material. So keep your expectations low. All my material, all my old material is so politically incorrect. I would do it anyway.

Fuck that shit. I don't buy into that bullshit. I don't like it. I don't think it really, I don't think it's quite as on fire as people say it is. Yeah, probably. You know, the only time I see people complaining about wokeness is when they're getting paid fucking five million bucks for a netflix special or something then you go well who the fuck is shutting you down nobody yeah you know on curb i mean curb was particularly politically incorrect when larry steals the shoes from the holocaust museum do you know that we've never there was only one episode in all 120 episodes that we did that we ever got major blowback from anything.

He never got blowback on it. What was it? It was the one where, I think it was season seven, where he's taking some medication, which is making him urinate like crazy. And he pees into a toilet and the urine is so forceful that it splashes up onto a picture of Jesus, and it looks like a tear is coming out of Jesus' eye, and the people whose house it was swear it was a sign. So, people were saying he was urinating on Jesus. He was not urinating on Jesus. It was a splash, but that's the only time I ever went and i was doing press for the show at that time that i ever had to defend the show in any way shape or form was that episode never never

anything else but i think the show maybe got grandfathered in a little bit as well because you guys were being horrendous before uh the kind of yeah yeah that's true the great reset which i don't know when that happened, really. I guess, I don't know what happened that suddenly there was a whole new way of thinking and you had to, you know, although, like I say, I don't know how real it really is.

Yeah, you know, I think you're right. I mean, I think it was real for like, you know, a minute. Yeah. And then I think that there's a backlash against it now. Well, I think people get a little tired of it. You know, you get a little tired of, you can't laugh at that.

You go, this is America. That's right. You remember back in the day there was Dice Clay or Sam Kennison and guys like... How about Don Rickles?

Oh, shit. My God. Do you ever watch Don on YouTube? He was always on my old late night show. I loved Don. Oh, my God, how funny on YouTube? He was always on my old late night show. I loved Don. God, how funny was he?

He was amazing. Yeah. He came to a party in my house. One of the greatest moments. I had this party, a Christmas party in LA. And I invited Don and Barbara Rickles to come to the thing. And he said, yeah, I'll come. He came to my house in the Hollywood Hills.

He gets out of the car and he comes over and he gives me a dollar bill. He says, here's a dollar. Get a better fucking house. I'm like, what are you saying? He said, I have to drive up all that. We have to drive up all these winding hills. Get a house. Get a house on the flat. This is terrible here. This is a terrible house. And I was like, okay. But I loved him. I was getting quite close with him and Barbara for the last few years. Did you know him? I did not know him. But when I was a kid, we didn't have DVR or VHS even.

So when he was on The Tonight Show, I used to set the alarm to wake up so that my brother and I could watch him because that was my favorite. Watching him on The Tonight Show was a huge influence on me. And he was an interesting guy because he was so nice. He was quite shy and very friendly and quite an emotional man. Very sentimental. Yes, yes, he was very sentimental. And he'd be like, no, I kid, but I love you. I love you.

We kid because we love you. Yeah, that's right. I don't know. I think that's going to get out of jail card for telling me I've got a shit house. And you know what? There's something about that I kind of refuse to do because it's too apologetic. Right, right. You know?

Yeah, and also, I think if you're busting someone's balls and they don't know that you're just busting their balls, then you're not really doing it properly. Because if you bust someone's balls, if you're having fun with someone, they should be able to tell that's what you're doing. When he came in and said, here's a dollar, get a better house,

I know that he's not. Because if he gave you a million dollars, he'd say, get a better house, okay. And if he gave me a million dollars, you'd get a better house, okay. And if he gave me a million dollars, you can see what he fucking likes at that point. I don't care if he's being mean to me. But I think that that kind of messing around humor, that comes from a different time.

Yes. You know, I think now it's a little more guarded than that. Absolutely more guarded. But the thing about Rickles that was so impressive was the speed that his brain worked. You know, and I know other, it's just, it was just so facile and so quick. Yeah. How he would come up with these things. Who were the, so Rickles was one.

Who were the other comedians that kind of drew you into that world? Pryor. Pryor was amazing. Yeah. I remember seeing, when I first saw that first concert movie of his... What was that, Sunset Strip? Or was it before that? No, it was before that.

Sunset Strip was the red outfit. Yeah. But this was a black silk shirt. It was a concert movie, and I had never seen him. You know, and it was, whoa. And it was in movie theaters. Yeah, it was in movie theaters. Yeah, right.

And it was the most brilliant stand-up. I had no interest in being a stand-up. I didn't know anything about stand-up comedy. And I had never been in movie theaters. Yeah, it was in movie theaters. And it was the most brilliant stand-up. I had no interest in being a stand-up. I didn't know anything about stand-up comedy. And I had never been in a club. And then I went out to L.A. to visit my cousin. And he took me to the comedy store. Because he had just directed a movie Pryor was in called Some Kind of Hero. It was a serious part.

And he took me to see Pryor. And Pryor was, it was my first time in a comedy club. Right. Was seeing Richard Pryor. That's crazy. Right. Was seeing Richard Pryor. So, you know. That's crazy. Yeah. And he was working on material for Sunset Strip for his next.

Oh, really? Thing. And it was revelatory to me because not everything was working. Yeah. You know, and I didn't know that's how you did it. I thought, you know, when I was growing up, I saw, you know, Alan King on Ed Sullivan and he got up there and he told us jokes. I thought that's what it was.

You had to be that good right away. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I saw Pryor, who was like a god. Some stuff wasn't working. He was workshopping, and I was like, oh, I get it. See, that's why I feel like the younger comics, they're not getting a chance to fail. No. Because everything is up there too fast.

Yeah, and when we were, I mean, you know, coming up, there was no phones and there was no tweeting and none of that, or X-ing, whatever the fuck it's called. Twixing. Twixing, there's none of that shit. It felt private. Yeah. And so you could push the envelope

until you felt that little thing going up your spine. It's like, I've gone too far. I've gone too far. But then you pull, that's how you learn. And that was part of the fun as well. It's like you fight gone too far gone too far but then you put that's how you learn that was part of the fun as well it's like you find where the edge is and then you get back from it but the but the thing is i think now with the with recording i've noticed i say to audiences because i still do stand-up i love doing stand-up and i will say i don't say personally but you know to the audience coming in they they're told, keep your phone on. If you get an emergency, someone calls you, that's fine, but just don't.

Don't record anything and don't do it. I'd say 99% of the time, people go, got it, and they don't. We went to see Chris Rock upstate. We were upstate and he was in concert, so we went to see him. You had to give your phone up. A bunch of guys do that. I think Dave Chpelle does that i think bill does it as well that they they just make sure they put it in a bag or something and then you collect it i don't like that it seems like a lot and also i like to think this is probably wishful thinking because nowadays i think most of the people that come and see me are too old for this but i like to think some people come and see me i've got

little kids at home and a babysitter, so they want to have their phone. Yeah, they do. That's right. That's true. But I think really mostly that's not happening. I think most of them are older than having little kids. I know.

That's what I'm saying. It's like if they get a call from their kid, it's because their kid is having a kid. But you know what's interesting about that is I think that comedy is one of the things that appeals to, it's not a generational thing. No, I think styles of comedy are. I mean, there are styles of comedy that are going around now with younger comedians. I kind of try and stay plugged in to what's coming up.

And there's some styles of it I go, I don't really go for that. I never did, I suppose, go for parody songs and all that kind of stuff. Always hated following that. Yeah, parody songs or a lot of impressions. Some impressions is fun, but you can't, you know, it's like eating all candy. Or the ones that take the mic into their mouth doing the impressions. I hate that shit. But, you know, anecdotally,

who stops me on the street most is boys in their 20s. And they want you to say, get the fuck out of here. But they're Curb fans, and we're all old on that show. There's not a one of us under 60 on that show.

That's funny. You're right. But the energy of the show is so fucking... But I'm just saying that comedy kind of goes across... Yeah, you're right. But the energy of the show is so fucking... But I'm just saying that comedy kind of goes across... Yeah, no, you're right. Good comedy. Yeah, you're right. I feel like it's also one of those things that it gets to be like your audience will come with you. I've got people who come to see me now, see me like 20 years ago, and they're, you know, they're older and they're, you know, I'm doing jokes about my sore hip and they're reaching that point. Do you know what I mean? It's like they will come with you. I think that you do get like musicians get it as well. Although musicians get it really easy

because you write a song when you're 18 and you're still playing it when you're fucking 18. But music is another thing. I mean, I know my kids, they listen to stuff from the 80s all the time. That is true, actually. That is weird, isn't it? Because it's good.

Because it's good, and it has a certain lack of the whiff of the algorithm in it. It wasn't made for your approval. It was made because it was some drug addict somewhere, right? Playing a guitar. And so it kind of has a little, not that I think you have to be a drug addict to make good music, but... They just, that was just, they just happened to be.

They happened to be drug addicts. Well, and amazingly... Some of them didn't die. Most of them are alive. That's true. Well, I don't know if, a lot. Some of them are alive. I mean, John Mayall, I saw,

died at 90 last week. Did he really? He was 90. Yeah, that's, Mick Jagger is still performing. He's 80. Well, look at Keith. What Keith put into his body.

Well, but you know, I worked with them for a little while. Yeah? Did you open for them? No. What I did was I was writing a screenplay with Mick Jagger.

Oh, really? So I was on the road with them for a little while. Wow. Yeah. You need to write about that. Oh, I've done it in the stand-up and I've talked about it a ton of times. But the thing was that when I was out on the road

with him, I was amazed by Keith because Keith is not what I thought he was going to be, which the Bridges to Babylon tour. And that was the tour where Ronnie Wood went into rehab and he had to go into rehab because Keith said that he was, you know, he was getting fucked up too much. Do you imagine walking into a rehab and you said, uh, why are you here? Yeah. Keith Richards thinks I'll get too fucked up too much, even partying too hard. In the group therapy session.

It's like, I'm concerned. I'm concerned about you, Ronnie. You know, you're really letting yourself go. But I was kind of surprised by Keith Richards because he's got a kind of street tough guy vibe. It's not like a fucked up Captain Jack from the Pirate movie thing. I mean, that's kind of the persona. He's kind of like Larry and Curb. You know what I mean? It's him, but it's not really him. So wait, Keith is more like an enforcer kind of a guy? I wouldn't like to get on the wrong side of him. Really? yeah you know it's kind of so wait keith is more like a uh like an enforcer kind of a guy yeah i

wouldn't like to get on the wrong side of him yeah i think he i mean now i don't know i could probably he's 80 but i mean but i don't know actually i don't know he has the he's pretty energetic and jagger is much more kind of like, I felt like Mick was much more, took a backseat to Keith's energy. Really? Yeah, just when they were social. They don't really socialize that much, but when they were kind of like,

being around before they get on stage. Right. Because everybody used to say, you know, Keith doesn't like that, so don't do it. You know, like, okay, all right. But nobody ever said to me, Mick doesn't like that. Keith was the alpha. I feel like he is.

Now, maybe I'm talking about, that was the impression I got. I thought, Keith's the big dog here, and Mick is the singer. Mick is the showman. Yeah, that's right. He's the kind of, like, he's the song and dance man at the front. But Keith is the, you know, the... Yeah, he's the... And Charlie was still alive, and, you know, the... Yeah, he's the... And Charlie was still alive

and, you know, and so... He seemed like he was lovely. Yeah, he has a rose name. He was really into roses and he made his own Charlie, what, roses. Really? Yeah, and he made them

for his wife. His wife bred horses. It was very kind of genteel. I'm Angie Martinez. Check out my podcast where I talk to some of the biggest athletes, musicians, actors in the world. We go beyond the headlines and the sound bites to have real conversations about real life, death, love and everything in between. This life right here, just finding myself, just this relaxation, this not feeling feeling stress this not feeling pressed this is what i'm most proud of i'm proud of mary because i've been through hell and some horrible

things that feeling that i had of inadequacy is gone you're gonna die being you so you got to constantly work on who you are to make sure that the stars align correctly. Life ain't easy and it's getting harder and harder. So if you have a story to tell, if you come through some trials, you need to share it because you're going to inspire someone. You're going to you're going to give somebody the motivation to not give up, to not quit. Listen to Angie Martinez IRL on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Guess what, Mango? What's that, Will?

So iHeart is giving us a whole minute to promote our podcast, Part-Time Genius. I know. That's why I spent my whole week composing a haiku for the occasion. It's about my emotional journey in podcasting over the last seven years, and it's called Earthquake House. Mango, I'm going to cut you off right there. Why don't we just tell people about our show instead? Yeah, that's a better idea. So every week on Part-Time Genius, we feed our curiosity by answering the world's most important questions. Things like, when did America start dialing 911? Is William Shatner's best acting work in Esperanto?

Also, what happened to Esperanto? Plus, we cover questions like, how Chinese is your Chinese food? How do dollar stores stay in business? And of course, is there an Illuminati of cheese? There absolutely is. And we are risking our lives by talking about it. But if you love mind-blowing facts, incredible history, and really bad jokes, make your brains happy and tune in to Part-Time Genius.

Listen to Part-Time Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Back in 1969, this was the hottest song around. So hot that some guys from Michigan tried to steal it. that some guys from Michigan tried to steal it. My name is Daniel Ralston. For ten years, I've been obsessed with one of the most bizarre and audacious cons in rock and roll history. A group would have a hit record, and quickly they would hire a bunch of guys to go out and be the group.

People were being cheated on several levels. After years of searching, we bring you the true story of the fake zombies. I was like blown away. These guys are not going to get away with it. Listen to the true story of the fake zombies on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. But then I grew up in Mount Vernon, which is right next to the Bronx. That's like you're doing a little better? Yeah, a little better. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. So your family weren't show business.

No, not my family, but I had cousins, and my uncle was a director of soap operas. Oh, that's a way in. Did that help you? Yes, because he gave me a part of an extra. It was One Life to Live, and I played a nurse as an extra. Because, you know, there are always hospital scenes. Yeah, sure. Coma.

Everybody's in a coma. Everybody's in a coma. And that's how I got my after card. Oh, all right. And then I got my sad card right out. Because at that time, you could just, you know, if you had one job or two jobs, you could get into the union. So I got into the union that way. That's why I started doing stand-up.

Because I wanted to get into the actors' union. And if you had three gigs, this is in the UK, this is in Scotland. If I had done three shows as a stand-up and got paid for them, I'd get in the actors' union. Yeah.

I don't think it's that. I mean, no, I think you just join it. No, sure, it's not like that at all anymore. But that, so he helped me in that, but that was all the help he ever gave me. All right. Giving me a couple of extras as a nurse. If you get extras as a nurse, then. I had a little hat.

Yeah, really? I bet you were adorable. I'm talking about what year, like 1977? I bet you were adorable. I bet it was really lovely. Yeah, but then I didn't, nobody was hiring. All of a sudden my phone wasn't ringing. Well, you know, it's a tough game.

But what about the stand-up then? So what draws you into the stand-up? You'd seen prior. Yeah. Was that it? You know, it was, I think I was in a very bad place in my life. I was lost. I was 28. I was older already. I was not a kid. And I just, I thought I wanted to be an actress and I graduated from college. I didn't

take acting there because I was too intimidated and too scared. I understand. And I started taking acting classes and I was bored out of my mind. You know, scene study. It always seemed like everybody lived right down the block over here. They were on 45th Street and some walk-up that you had to go for some scene study. I hated it, and it just didn't resonate. And then I just didn't know what to do, and I was... I hated it when they... I knew I didn't have a future as an actor.

I heard an actor saying, do you want me to honor the comma when he was talking about the script? Oh, fuck me. That's exactly what I said. I'm like, fuck me. I can't listen to this fucking shit. Honor the comma?

Fuck you. Yeah. So then I was really in a depression. I had a horrible relationship and I was waitressing for years. And the way that I made the waitressing bearable is I would go back in the kitchen. I would imitate all the customers. I was always a really good mimic. And my waiter friends were the ones that kept on saying, you should do stand-up. You should do stand-up.

I never thought of doing stand-up. That's interesting. And then I went to an open mic night. And there were these guys there, Paul Herzig and Burt Levitt. And I did my five minutes in three minutes because I was doing the red. And they came up to me and they said, we thought you were great,

and we're opening up a comedy club on University and 13th Street downtown, and we want you to come work for us. Can we have your number? I gave them my number. I never went back on stage. I was too scared. And about three or four months later, they called me.

And I was like, yeah, all right, I'll come down. And that's how I started. Wow. I never thought I was going to be a stand-up comic. And then after, I just worked there because they were very...

What was the name of the club? Comedy U. Comedy U. They were very good to me and they gave me a weekend spot within like two or three weeks where I made 20 bucks. And you're starting to do

longer stage time at this point, right? Well, first they said to me, can you come down and do 10 minutes? And like an idiot, I said, yeah, I'll write 10 minutes. 10 minutes, you know. 10 minutes is, at the beginning, 10 minutes is hard. It's a long time. Yeah, it takes me 10 minutes to fucking say good evening now.

But they were very supportive of me. I just got lucky with these guys. And then I started, you know, meeting all the other comics. And eventually, after about six months, they were like, they all forced me to go uptown to catch a rising star and the comic strip

and all of that. So this is the 80s, right? 1983. Yeah, it's the comedy boom is happening then. Yeah, it's like everybody's got piano key ties and their sleeves rolled up.

And lines around the block every night. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I lived in New York in 84. That's when I got a spot at the comic strip because... I was there then. Yeah, well, you would have been in the big leagues though because what happened was I came to the country and I was trying to get on stage and I heard that

if you went up to the comic strip on 2nd Avenue, it was like 2nd and 81st, right? So you go there on a Monday morning at 10 a.m. Yeah, take a number. Take a lotto ticket. Right. And then if you get picked in the lotto, so I go up and there's like maybe 30 stand-ups, young people waiting to get on stage, mostly boys. Yeah. And I take a ticket and I do not get picked.

So I say to the bartender who's running the little thing, I said, how does this work? Because my number didn't get picked. And he heard my accent and he went, where are you from? I went from Scotland. He went, hang on a minute. And he gave me a ticket. I got to fucking see this.

So he let me do it. And the first night I did it, it was fine. And Lucian Holtz was there. He was there. He said, come back. Come back next Monday. I'll give you a spot. And I went back next Monday and I fucking bombed.

Monday night, if I recall, was the night that they had the beginners. Yeah, that was me. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I had to audition for him in the middle of the afternoon in an empty room. Oh, my God. Horrible. That's horrible.

I think he had a little crush on me. So he passed me. So then he says, okay, this is someone that we book. Yeah. So did he ever hit on you after that? Yes, weirdly. But then you had to give your availability and then you would call up every Monday, let's say, and say, do you have any spots?

And it was always so fraught. You know, did I get a spot this week? Did I get a spot? And like, if it was like a couple of weeks in a row, you didn't, and say, do you have any spots? And it was always so fraught. Did I get a spot this week? And if it was a couple of weeks in a row you didn't get a spot, you were like, oh, they hate me now. Oh God, it was horrible. So when did you start? You were working with Joy Behar. She was working with her at the same time.

Yeah, I met her at Comedy U. Coming up at the same time, right? Yeah. Her stand-up is quite abrasive you know yeah she's she's always been a great joke writer yeah yeah i think people don't know what a good you know strong she was a strong she influenced me a lot because we became friends when we first met in 1983 right and we're still best friends right all these years lovely women i've always enjoyed

her but when i when i first i used to do characters. And when I first saw her on stage, and we had been talking backstage, and then she went on stage, I was like, oh, I see what she's doing. She's just being like how I am sitting around the kitchen table with my girlfriends. Right. She was just so herself and so real and natural, but telling jokes. But her persona was the same as it was offstage. That's interesting. And that affected me a lot. That was where, you know, you don't know who you are in the beginning

when you get on stage. You don't know who you are at that age anyway, do you? I mean, I guess, well, if you said you were 29, I guess you're getting into that. I also think the stand-up, this is my theory, people listening to this podcast are bored with me saying that, I'm sure, but But I haven't heard it. Well, so here's what it is i

believe that stand-up comedians become good ones become comedians as a reaction to trauma that's absolutely true i think that's what it is my wife takes it further she says it's a reaction to your mother but then she knew my mother well you know many female comics, I don't know about male comics, but so many female comics I know had depressed mothers. Yeah. And there was this wanting to make her laugh, wanting to cheer her up constantly. Yeah.

But the thing about being funny, I mean, I knew when I was like, you know, like two, that I was funny. Right. And I saw that this was a survival thing. Sure. It's a currency. Yeah.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, because she was depressed, you know, with the lying under the covers. Your mom? Yeah. She was in a deep, she was a deeply depressed person.

And it was like, all right, I need attention from somebody because I'm not getting it from her because she's too up her own asshole, you know. So I was funny and I saw if I'm funny,

I get attention. And it was like just simple, cause and effect. I remember exactly the same thing. My mother was very sick when I was a little kid. I never really found out exactly what it was. They used to say, it's a woman's trouble. What does that mean? I don't fucking know.

She didn't have a period that whole time? No, I think it was probably more to do with the plumbing in that area or something. But I mean, I never, to this day, I don't know what it is. My family are like, meh. Is she alive? No, she died years ago. But she never told me.

But I was talking to Lou Black about this mother thing, and I said, my wife's theory is that comedians all have the same mom. It's a mom. He liked his mom. I know, but wife's theory is that, you know, comedians all have the same mom. It's a mom. He liked his mom. I know, but this is what you... I liked my mom too.

I didn't like mine. You didn't like your mom? Not that I didn't like her. She was difficult. Yeah, my mom was... So this is my wife's theory is everybody has the same mom. And so Lewis said to me, what is that? He said, cold with bad boundaries.

That's... Bad boundaries, said, cold with bad boundaries. Bad boundaries, yes. Cold with bad boundaries. Meryl Markle has this belief that all the female comedians had the same withholding mother. Yeah. Now, Joy's was not. Joy had a very loving mother. It's interesting because we talk about it all the time. She came from the complete opposite of what I came from.

I was constantly told, shut up, stop showing off. And she was told, come here and entertain us. It was a completely different vibe. Yeah, it's funny that I was talking to, are you familiar with Robert Smigel? Do you know who Robert Smigel is? Yeah, love him. Right. He's a friend, yes.

Right. So Robert was- And how funny is Triumph? Oh my God, it's fantastic. Triumph is one of those things that can get me into just hysterics. It's Laurel and Hardy level iconic comedy in America, I think. But he was talking about, his parents were really supportive too. I was talking to him on this podcast and he was like, no, they were great.

So all my theory about that kind of went out of the way. I think if you look, there's more negatives than positives for most comedians. I think there has to be. That's what, for me, that's the only thing that kind of makes sense about it. But I was saying to Lewis about, I want to tell you this,

but Lewis said, because his mom died when she was 104. I'm old. Yeah, 104. And he looked at me when I said the cold with bad powers. He went, oh my God, that's so accurate.

The only time I looked my mom in the eye was when she was on her deathbed. But his parents used to come to every show. They were very supportive. Not mine. I understand. I think you and I are similar. My mother didn't really

like me. Oh, stop it. No, she didn't. Really? Yeah, and a lot of, I've analyzed it every which way but so i had to go out and make the world love me i had to do that's what i had to do and then i did and it's one of the reasons i don't do stand-up is i don't have the same need anymore yeah yeah i figured that one out yeah but there's other things that are you know you could do with i mean it's such a creative thing. I think also as well with stand-up,

because I didn't do it for a long time. I stopped doing stand-up, and then when I got the late-night show, I thought, you know what? These people at CBS and who are in show business, if I fuck up here, they'll cut my throat and throw me in the East River so fucking fast that I better have a fucking plan B. And I thought, if I'm doing late night, I'll go back to doing stand up because it's

so similar. One will feed the other. The stand up will help make the late night show better. And the late night show will send people to come and see me do stand up. And so that's what I did. And that's the only reason I got back. But when I got back into it, I fell in love with it again. I think, you know, this is why I'm trying to pitch it to you. You know what? I think that every, and I know this from Larry, I think that every comedian's dream is to draw. Yeah.

Because all those years you're in these showcase clubs. Yeah. And they're not there to see you. So you have to spend so much time winning them over. I know. But when you're drawing, they're there to see you. So you're funny right away. You walk on and they're laughing there to see you. So you have to spend so much time winning them over. But when you're drawing, they're there to see you. So you're funny right away. You walk on and they're laughing.

That's right. There's other anxiety because they're paying a lot of money to see you. So you have that pressure. You got to deliver. You got to deliver. Wait, I was just going to say something about, what was it about Lewis? That's gone. Well, Larry, you said Larry.

Well, Larry started as a stand-up. Right. And Larry,, you said Larry. Oh, well, Larry, you know, Larry started as a stand-up. Right. And Larry, his material was brilliant. We would all come in the room to watch him because the material was like not like anybody else's material. Yeah, I believe it. It was just out there. But Larry never, I don't, well, he didn't really care, I think. But he wasn't able to draw the audience into him.

Right. If they got him, it was great. But if they didn't, he was not able, you know audience into him. If they got him, it was great. But if they didn't, he was not able... You know, we all have a bag of trips. Charm is important. But now, they would come to see him. Sure. So now I think he should do it again.

I think so. And I think also, it's kind of like if you learn to play the guitar really well when you were a kid, you probably should go back and do it again. You should enjoy it. And the pressure is off. If you go into a club and people say... You did a drop-in somewhere in some club in New York, and then somebody introduces you and you walk up. People are going to go fucking nuts right away. And then you can enjoy yourself. What if I don't deliver? You're delivering right

now. You're delivering right now. I'll think about it. And then you say, what if I don't deliver? You can say that. Well, my act was always just totally in the moment. I was never one of these started A and end in Z kind of comedians. I never knew. I like that stuff. I admire it, but I can't really do it. I can't. I tried. Yeah. I would try to do it that way. And, you know, of course,

the master of being all over the place is my dear friend, Richard Lewis, who's no longer with us. I loved Richard. I mean, he would just be

so all over the place. It was insane. And tie it together. Yeah. And tie it together. Yeah. He was brilliant. Richard is funny

because he was doing Curb, obviously. He was sick in the last season. And he and I would email each other all is funny because he was doing Curb, obviously. He was sick in the last season. And he and I would email each other all the time because he said to me, he said, I'm fascinated by you because you're not Jewish and yet I like you and you're funny. How many years did you do The Late Show?

Ten. Wow. Did you love it? Or was it tedious? Yes. It was false. Yes to everything. You know, I mean, what it was it tedious? Yes. It was both. Yes to everything. You know, I mean, what it was, was a demystified show business for me, which I'm very grateful

for. Yeah. You know, you realize the mensch to douchebag ratio in show business is the same as pretty much any bar or room you go into. And people aren't who you think they are. No. Some of them were fucking horrible and some of them were pleasantly surprising. Oh my god.

I became friends with people who were heroes like Robin Williams and I became friends. Carrie Fisher and I became friends. But I also became friends with Larry King and I became friends. Oh really? I didn't see that one coming at all. Because I used to make fun of him. Well, he was so make fun

of him. Yeah, and I used to do this horrible impression of him on the show, but it made him laugh. He was easy. Yeah. He was easy. He wasn't touchy. No, not at all. You know, he was kind of, he had that kind of,

I don't know if this is an old Scottish word, he had that kind of Meshuggah vibe. Do you know what I mean? That's not a Scottish word. I know it's not a Scottish word. But he had that of Meshuggah vibe. Do you know what I mean? That's not a Scottish word. I know it's not a Scottish word. But he had that kind of, you know, it's all right. He kind of like he was a little bit wise guy, a little bit kind of good guy. Well, he came, you know, he was a street guy in Brooklyn.

I mean, you know, and there was all these Jewish mobsters around when he grew up. Yeah, he used to run numbers for the, who was the name of that guy in Miami? Meyer Lansky? Meyer Lansky, yeah. He got arrested. My grandfather used to run numbers for Louis Lepke. Really? Yeah.

So your family are a little, hey. Well, you know, they were immigrants. They did what they had to do. I'm familiar with the condition. You know, he wasn't that bright, my grandfather. They said he got hit on the head as a kid. And my grandparents had a

horrible marriage. They used to say that my grandfather had a twin. This is true. He had a twin that died in infancy. And my grandmother used to say to him, the wrong twin died, Izzy. Oh my God. Oh my God. he did what he could

you know he was an immigrant he had no education you run numbers you do what you have to do you ever run into any kind of trouble when you were like because new york in the 80s when you're coming up as a stand-up do you ever run into any trouble like not only was a lot of crime around but there was a lot of drugs around a lot yeah You know, a lot of those. Well, and I lived on 73rd and Amsterdam. And right there was Needle Park. Yeah, I remember it. That was Needle Park. Joy loves to tell the story about these guys mugged me and I scared the shit out of them.

I believe it was. I just started screaming at them. I lived on 73rd. And it was one of these buildings where you have to walk down the stairs and to the vestibule. No doormen in those days. Yeah. You know, I was poor. And it was not a good. in those days. I was poor.

And it was not a good... I was coming home from clubs at 2, 3 o'clock in the morning. And they followed me in. And it was two of them. And I just turned on them. I felt no fear, interestingly enough. I got so fucking angry. And I just turned on them. I started screaming.

I said, if I press this buzzer, my husband's going to come. I didn't have a husband. My husband's going to come downstairs with a shotgun and blow your fucking head off. And they just, they were like, she's crazy, man. She's crazy. Let's get out of here. And they left. Did you feel fear later on? No, I felt pissed off. You never felt the fear? No, no, I was pissed off. You're not new. Your mom is pretty tough on you, I think.

But you learn how to deal with it. Sure, of course. Like you don't walk, you know, on the sidewalk close to the building. You walk closer to the street. And I tried to teach my girls, you know, my daughters, when they moved into the city, always have your keys in your hand. Don't be at the door fumbling for your keys. They didn't listen to me. They think everything I said was stupid. Well, that's part of having kids. I say stuff now. I try and give advice to my kids. I feel like I got

some information in my life. But they think you're a fucking idiot. They do think you're a fucking idiot. Yours are younger than mine, I think. My oldest is 23. My youngest is 13. So they're young. Mine are all 30 and over. So now they come to me.

Juliana, I remember, is the most difficult. She was the middle child when she came to me, and she said to me maybe five, six years ago, you were right about everything. It was the greatest day of my life. Oh, my God. It was the greatest day of my life. I fucking live for that.

But they're young. They will. Yeah, I don't know. But maybe. Maybe the little one will. But the older one, he's got his ideas. Until those ideas... Until they don't work.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, maybe. I don't know. And maybe they won't work. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm Angie Martinez. Check out my podcast where I talk to some of the biggest athletes, musicians, actors in the world. We go beyond the headlines and the soundbites to have real conversations about real life, death, love and everything in between.

This life right here, just finding myself, just this relaxation, this not feeling stressed, this not feeling pressed. This is what I'm most proud of. I'm proud of Mary because I've been through hell and some horrible things. That feeling that I had of inadequacy is gone. You're going to die being you. So you got to constantly work on who you are to make sure that the stars align correctly. Life ain't easy and it's getting harder and harder. So if you have a story to tell, if you've come through some trials, you need to share it because you're going to inspire someone. You're going to, you're going to give somebody the motivation to not give up, to not quit. Listen to Angie Martinez IRL on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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I want to ask you about a comedian that I loved, who I don't know if you knew her. It was Joan Rivers. Did you know Joan? I knew Joan. Not well, but I did know Joan. I never met her once in my life. Oh, really? No, not once.

I wanted to have her on the late night show, but they wouldn't do it because the producer of the show, my producer was also the producer of Johnny Carson's The Tonight Show. Oh, and there was that riff. And they had that big fight with Johnny and Joan and stuff. So they would never let me book Joan.

Joan's interesting. Yeah. You know, she was an interesting person. Yeah. And my very dear friend, Larry Amoros, I don't know if you know Larry. I don't. He wrote all her books and all her, you know, wrote a lot of her stuff with her. When I first met Joan, she was probably younger than me at the time.

She was probably 60-ish. You're right. And she was, this was before Edgar died and all, and she was not, she did not she was not supportive of younger females at the time. She was more competitive, and I felt that from her very much. But then later on, she became much more gracious and much more supportive and loving. And in her older age, I think after she went through a lot more, she became much more of a grand dame. I can see that happening. I find myself now, like now that I'm older, a little bit of success

does this too. You start to lighten up on other people a little bit, don't you think? Yeah. And I was never competitive with her. She was just, you know, if you watch the movie, the documentary, you see the, there's nothing, look, there was a hysteria there about working and having to do it constantly. Yeah. I never felt that. I'm a completely different animal than that. But I think that was part of, you know, why,

and then I think she got more relaxed as she got older. Did you have that? Were you competitive when you when you were younger like did you feel competitive with the other comics or was it was only women comics or did you feel competitive with all comics or you didn't feel it at all no i definitely felt it because you were in the early days you're competing for spots right so it's a definite thing it is is a competition. And with other females, they would only put one woman on a bill. They would never put two women on the lineup. So there weren't that many of us. So that was one thing.

But you want that spot. So yeah, you're competitive. I wasn't cutthroat competitive. I was just, you know, I want what they have. Give it to me. Sure, yeah. And I think you kind of need to have that a little bit. What was interesting with Joy is that I never felt competitive with Joy or she with me.

I think that we kind of got very early on that we were stronger together. Yeah. And then we were kind of like a force. You know, we would walk into Catch the Rising. So everybody knew Joy and Susie. You know, they didn't mess with us. Chris Rock, he always would ask if we were in the room before he went on because he knew if he did sexist material we'd pull him over and teach him a few things oh really

that's kind of he was a kid he was 18 he was young yeah he needed to be taught it's funny though that because i don't i don't know i'm sure that exists now, but I'm not aware of it. I'm fascinated by the way things are with comedians. Talking to you as a comedian, you kind of came to comedy because

things fucking sucked and you didn't know what else to do. And I wouldn't have done it if things had been good and I had another profession. Right, if you had something else to do. No, it was too scary and too hard. But I didn't know how hard it was. Yeah, but kids are coming up and they're like, I would like to be a comedian.

And they go to, like, they can have college courses on how to do stand-up. And maybe it's better. I don't know. how to do stand-up, and maybe it's better. I don't know, but it's certainly different. I think a class can be helpful for a very short period of time because it's a safe place to get up and kind of get your sea legs. But then you need an audience. You need an audience.

You need to fail. Yeah, you need to fail. You kind of do. You need to fail big, and we all have. Big and often. It's like, you know, these people come up to me that I'm sure they do to you. I killed at my, gave the toast at my brother's wedding and I killed. So I think I could do this.

Okay, fine. Go in front of strangers. That's right. Go in front of a bunch of people who hate you on site. That's right. Yeah. Like they have to forgive you for trying to make them laugh. You know, they're like, they're ready to go.

When I started, there were no standup clubs where I started. I started in Glasgow in Scotland. None. have to forgive you for trying to make them laugh you know they're like they're ready to go when i started there were no stand-up clubs where i started in glasgow in scotland none none no stand up the only comedian i knew about was billy connelly it was brilliant amazing billy's amazing and billy billy was like jackie robinson for me i mean it was like before billy there was like no one from where i came from did that, that I was aware of. And Billy had kind of created a world, but there was no catch or comicster brand. So I'd do music clubs,

but it was the time of punk rock. So they would say things like, they would say, all right, we're going to stop the music for a minute. Now here's some cunt that thinks he's funny. Oh, it's horrible. And especially if you do it, because I did the bitter end in the early days, you know, all that stuff, and the bottom line.

And they would come to see this, you know, musician, and they did not want to hear what you had to say. You know, Lars from Metallica said to me, hey, we're thinking about maybe having a comedian open for us on the next tour. I'm like, find somebody else, man. No fucking way. Were there clubs in Edinburgh? No, Glasgow. There was clubs in London.

There were clubs in London. And so what I did was, after I'd done a couple of shows in Glasgow, I had done the comic strip in New York and then I went back to Scotland. My visa ran out. I didn't want to get deported or get into trouble because I knew I'd want to come back later on. So I go back to the UK. I tried doing these gigs in Scotland and it's not really working that well. And they have these clubs in London, but I was poor. Like fucking poor. Yeah, I know. We were so poor. Oh, my God. Nobody understands how poor we were.

Fucking poor. So I used to have to get, like, a Greyhound bus from Glasgow to London. The overnight, it's... That's far, too. Yeah, it's like 500 miles. And you'd stop on the way, and everybody's drunk on the bus, and it was horrible, and people are cold and freezing.

And then I get to London. I had to wait all day to go and do an open mic spot at one of these clubs. Don't get no money and then go back to Scotland on the bus. I wouldn't even cover my fare. And yet, I fucking did it.

I don't know why. I still look at it now and go, Jesus Christ what was wrong with you? It's a good thing you did. It is. But that's what I'm fascinated by, people like us who fail and then don't. My husband, we were watching the Olympics last night, and he was saying something.

Imagine, you know, that you're watching the gymnast getting on the beam, which is like, what is it, four inches or something? Four inches across, yeah. It's insane. He's like, imagine getting up there and not knowing what you're doing. But I was like, four inches insane he's like imagine getting up there not knowing what you're doing but i was like what do you think it felt like getting up on stage yeah what do you think that felt like terror oh man i don't know how i did it well it's it's a reaction to trauma that's what i'm convinced about but you do you watch the olympics though you watch it yeah

yeah because i i like i watch it i'm like it's very impressive but yeah it's like jugglers it's like okay great good for you the thing that kills me about it is that you know it's not like i'm not talking about the basketball or the tennis or the people who make shit loads of money yeah not lebron james right but just these amateur athletes that spend their entire life training and then one little injury, and they're done. And they never made a dime. Or you lose by a hundredth of a second. And that's it.

And that's what you've been training for for the past 20 years. That feels insane to me. It does. If you think, oh, I'm going to sneeze just before the starting gun goes off, and it slows you down by a hundredth of a second. And then that's it. That's it. So it feels like, I watched the swimming the other day.

That's another, every four years, they hoodwink me into watching people swimming. What the fuck am I doing watching people? You're watching them race, not swim. Yeah, but my wife is like, oh, they're swimming really fast. I'm like, how could you even fucking tell? Like if you see someone swimming, they're swimming. Unless, unless you're- What about diving?

Diving is pretty impressive. I think that's impressive. Do you watch the diving? They haven't had it yet. I've seen it before. I like the track. I like watching those people run really fast and jumping. How do they do those hurdles?

It's hard. It's so hard I never even tried. I'm impressed with people that are in that kind of physical condition. I'd love to be in that kind of shape. Yeah, well, clearly that's not going to happen. No, it's not now. I'm not going to do the Olympics. Unless they introduce kind of like, I don't know if there's even a sport I would get to do now.

Maybe ambling. If they had an ambling competition. Yeah, you know. Sauntering. Gandering. Gardening. Gardening. Yeah. do now maybe ambling if they had an ambling competition yeah you know amble over gandering gardening gardening yeah i could i don't really garden pulling that weed really really quickly now greg's going in for a prune he's going for a prune he's pruned it he's pruned it off and he's near the stock that's good that's good i don't I don't know if there's anything that good. Is there anything that you regret about the career? You had a great career. You still have a great career.

But, I mean, it's like... You know, there's... No. I mean, I never moved to... I might have had a bigger career if I moved to L.A., but I never wanted to. I always stayed in New York. This will sound silly,

but there are certain... I mean, I could name them. It's maybe five, six times when I was on stage, when I said something I regretted, you know, and I still remember those things. Like once I made fun of this woman's outfit and it was just mean. And I,

I don't know why I did that. That was, and I remember it and I'm, and I regret it. Yeah. I mean, it sounds so silly in a way because I've had 10,000 sets where I didn't do that, but I remember those few.

Well, that's the kind of interesting thing about it because sometimes when you're working like that, if you're doing crowd work or if you're improvising and you're paying attention to the crowd, maybe you make a mistake and you say something mean when you wish you hadn't said it. And usually when you say something mean, it's defensive. It's because you're feeling insecure.

Right, like they heckled you or something like that. Yeah. But the trouble is now, if that goes, if somebody gets a recording of that, then that's who you are. That's who you are. Yeah. Yeah. That was not what happened.

And it didn't happen that often, but I remember them. And they stay in my body. Yeah, I understand it. You're like, ah. I did a joke on Late Night once and I still think about it like, what a dick. It was like, remember George Clooney had a pig?

I don't remember. George Clooney had a pet pig. This is early on. I wouldn't have done it later. But George Clooney had a pet pig and then the pig died. And one of the guys wrote a joke. It's like George Clooney had a pet pig and then the pig died. And somebody, one of the guys wrote a joke. It's like George Clooney's pig died and the funeral services are tomorrow

and then bacon sandwiches at George's house. It's like, that's a fucking mean thing to say about, but I did it. I did the joke and, you know, and I wish I hadn't done it because it's his pet. It's his pet pig. Look how hard we are on ourselves. There are people who do shit like that all the time. Yeah, but they're assholes. I'm trying not to be an asshole.

They're politicians. Yeah, they are too. It's one thing I noticed about having politicians when I was doing the late night show. It's tough because they're pretty much universally assholes. Yeah. Like all of them. Well, who wants to be? Some people, I think, are into public service for the public service.

Okay, let's run with that as maybe. You know, you want to be president? You always say, I want to be leader of the free world. What kind of ego is that? Yeah, it's a little tricky. It's massive. Yeah, it's a little tricky. I don't know how I...

Any politician I've met, I've always been very kind of uncomfortable with. I feel like your hand's in my pocket somehow. Well, it is. Yeah, a little bit. But now more than ever, because they need so much money. Do you get the emails? I get them daily. All the time.

And now they say your name. It's like, hey, Craig, it's me. Yeah, exactly. Joe Biden or something. I'm like, what? Joe is texting me texting me every day. Yeah. He doesn't know how to text. He never knew how to text. This is how ridiculous I am. I could block it, but then I feel bad blocking it. Now, the truth of the matter is, they don't know. It's a fucking bot or something. Yeah, they don't know. But I feel like, well, then they're going to think that I'm not a supporter. Whatever it is, I get insane about it. I get fundraising texts and emails from people. I'm like, do you know me at all?

It's almost like we're running on a platform of hating Scottish people. I'm like, what? Why would you think? Let me ask you a totally ignorant question. Is Scotland a republic no scotland is uh the united kingdom so you're not part of the eu not anymore no scotland england northern ireland and wales are all part of the united kingdom right but ire Ireland is part of the EU. Southern Ireland. Ireland, Ireland. But Northern Ireland

is part of the UK. Yeah, that's a whole fucking mess over there. Oh, no shit. You don't want to get into that argument. That's like that's Israel-Palestine. A little bit, yeah. It's like there's no, I don't know how you figured this out, but there's that and then Scotland has a big

Because aren't they constantly doing referendums? there's that. And then Scotland has a big... Because aren't they constantly doing referendums? Forever. How do you feel about that? I do not want to discuss that with you. Because I... Because they'll pick it up over there. And it's like right down the middle.

I'll tell you afterwards how I feel about it. But if I do it now, some fucker over there will pick it up and then, you know... Come after you. Oh my God.

Yeah. It's just like, it's so on fire. On both sides. Yeah. Yeah, of course. The interesting thing is, I was talking to someone

because I don't do any politics in the act. Right. And I made this rule for myself. Never. This is only about four years ago. I used to do it

and then I was like, no, I'm not... Because when things went on fire, usually about 2016 things got really heated yeah really divisive and I was like okay I'm not going to do any politics at all and I made a stylistic choice no politics at all in the act and the only people that gave me a hard time about that were people that I actually agreed with. Really? Yeah. It's really funny. People I didn't agree with, I'm like, oh, good.

Or it just never occurred to them. But people that knew my politics were like, why aren't you? That's terrible. You should be. And I'm like, why? Why? Why do you have to be that person?

Why do I have to fucking do it? I'm not a politician. And also, my job is to make people laugh. And also, there are people that do it. I never did politics either. And also my job is to make people laugh. There are people that do it. I never did politics either. And there are people who do it really well. People are great at it. We were just talking about Louis Black.

He does it brilliantly. But more. People who do it really, really well. Yeah, I could never do it well. Yeah, so I just stayed away from that. Yeah, I just do like me failing over and over. How much I suck is the basic mind that I go to over and over again. Shit that's happened to me and how much I suck.

Anyway, this has been great for me. I'm a huge fan of yours. And I always get a little uncomfortable when I have someone on the show that I'm a fan of because I think, are they going to be awful? And you were the opposite of that. Oh, well, thank you. You are absolutely a delight but people always think i'm gonna be suzy green and i'm gonna walk in here telling everybody to go

fuck themselves and wearing some crazy fucking outfit well i was hopeful acting yeah i was hopeful you wouldn't be like that but i thought you gotta be grumpy you're gonna be shut down are you gonna you're none of these things no you know what? I actually, I love my life. God bless you. I'm not going to push you further than that. Get out of here. Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life We'll see you next time. divorce. Whoa. I said the words that I've said like in my head for like 16 years. Wild. Listen to Miss Spelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Angie Martinez. And on my podcast, I like to talk to everyone from Hall of Fame athletes to iconic musicians about getting real on some of the complications and challenges of real life. I had the best dad and I had the best memories and the greatest experience. And that's all I want for my kids as long as they can have that. Listen to Angie Martinez IRL on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I am Lacey Lamar. And I'm also Lacey Lamar. Just kidding. I'm Amber Revin. or wherever you get your podcasts. dive into my steamy DMs, answer your listener questions, and more. The more is punch each other. Listen to the Amber and Lacey Lacey and Amber show on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Just listen, okay? Or Lacey gets it. Do it.