Joy, a Podcast. Hosted by Craig Ferguson - Tom Papa

Episode Date: November 14, 2023

The greatest Tom Papa is on this week’s episode of JOY. Judd Apatow said it the best: "Tom Papa isn't just one of our most hilarious comic minds, he is also a big-hearted observer of the human condition.” Listen to Craig and Tom simply having a great time hanging out together. EnJOY!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Want to know how to leverage culture to build a successful business? Then Butternomics is the podcast for you. I'm your host, Brandon Butler, founder and CEO of Butter ATL. And on Butternomics, we go deep with today's most influential entrepreneurs, innovators, and business leaders to peel back the layers on how they use culture as a driving force in their business. Butternomics will give you what you need to take your game to the next level. Listen to Butternomics on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life in marriage. I just filed for divorce. Whoa. I said the words that I've said like in my head for like 16 years. Wild. Listen to Misspelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Angie Martinez. And on my podcast, I like to talk to everyone from Hall of Fame athletes to iconic musicians about getting real on some of the complications and challenges of real life.

I had the best dad and I had the best memories and the greatest experience. And that's all I want for my kids as long as they can have that. Listen to Angie Martinez IRL on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast is Joy. I talk to interesting people about what brings them happiness. Here's Tom Papa, a great American comedian who feels somehow

reliable enjoy am I interviewing you or are you interviewing me? it's really funny because last night I told my wife I was coming to see you and we adore you and she was like oh that's so great

have you checked up on what he's been up to lately and I was like oh that's so great have you like checked up on what he's been up to lately and i was like no no no he's interviewing me so i don't have to i don't have to look at his wikipedia page yeah like no it's the pressure's on him well i see now the the trouble is you mentioned your wife because i i mentioned to you very briefly before we started recording that you are my wife's favorite comedian. I like to hear that. Yeah, I don't like that. I know. It makes me think less of you.

Not less of you, but kind of angry at you. I'm kind of jealous a little bit. I know. As soon as you said it, I was like, well, that means that's too bad because I really like you. And now I know for a fact that you like me a little less than you did before she declared that. Well, she's been watching you on the interwebs, the Instagram and all that, because she has all that. Is that where she catches it mostly?

Yeah, I think so. Do you do a lot of that? Yeah, you know, I started, I got a group, a company to post my clips because it takes me six hours. I just did that too. It takes me six hours to edit and then post it and tag it. I just did, I can't do it. So I got this group to do it about a year ago. And I'm telling you, more people come up to me at my shows and say that they were turned on to me or watch me through TikTok or Instagram than the Netflix or Comedy Central or those things.

I have the same thing. I just started doing it. I think it's probably the same company, but I started doing it about three or four months ago. And the demographic in my audience, the age has dropped like an average of like 30 years. Like all of a sudden, there's more people and they're young. Yeah, they're good. And I said to them, you fuckers better not be here. Ironically. No, this is I'm not Rick Astley. I want some, you know, not that there's anything I do like Rick Astley, both as a man and as a performer. He got kind of ironic for a while there.

Yeah, you want young people. But I have the opposite thing where I'll look at the audience in certain spots and they're older. And I'm like, so where did you find me? This must be a Facebook group. In the library. Yeah, right, exactly. My book in the library.

I feel like I'm done trying to figure it out and I'm just throwing, I'm always mistaken about the trends and what's happening. Me too. So if they say, throw all your shit this way, it's whatever.

I think it's basically, and I am stealing a phrase from my own wife here, my wife who, you're her favorite comedian. Love her. Yeah, you fuck. She says, who you're her favorite comedian. Love her. She says, you just throw toilet paper at the Hollywood sign and see what sticks.

And that's the entire business. And if she said, if you have to ever write down what your job is, you don't have to say, well, I perform, I write. You don't have to do any of that. You just say, you roll up pieces of toilet paper

and you throw it at the Hollywood sign and you see what sticks. It's perfect because that sign is so big and the balls are so small. Tiny little spit balls. That is kind of actually, you have to constantly throw and you'll never cover it. How long have you been out in LA? I have been back and forth from New York and LA for 20 years. I think of you as an East Coast person.

Yeah. You have that sort of clever, good at stand-up vibe about you, that kind of New York thing. It is my roots. It is my thing. I have a hard time saying I'm here. Even like you just asking the question, I have to tell a story. I can't just say, I've been here eight years. Look, it's a thing, I have to tell a story. I can't just say, I've been here eight years. Look, it's a thing.

I have to establish. It's not good if you just do yes or no answers. That makes everything very difficult. Yes. But I shut down, we shut down our New York place eight years ago. And so we've been here full time without New York for eight years. And you raised your kids over there then both places and then they they wanted the reason we closed down new york was they got to a point where they wanted friends

oh they want friends yeah and they want young people yeah i know very very needy yeah and they started there they were here then we went back like whenever i'd get a job right they would come and we'd relocate for a little while and so and they love both but now 20 and 17 they're both gravitating my one daughter's school in the east my youngest my second is going to uh the east as well mine did that too and they both well one of them is still too young but but the other one, my older boy, grew up here. And then, like, since born here, raised here, and then, like, yeah, I'm going to New York. Yeah. And it's weird because we love New York. And my wife is, like, I can already, I heard a zipper the other night, and she's, like, quietly starting to pack bags.

I thought she was, like, messing with your pants. No, not that simple. No, right. She's packing up and like, we're going to go back. I think that I might end up back there as well. Yeah? Yeah, as I hurtle into my dotage. As I start to get indigestion a lot and I have gas, but I can't see.

And I think that New York's a great city for getting older in, if you have a bit of cash. Yes, I know. It is expensive, but pretty comparable to here. Yeah, but here, I feel like here, people hate you if you're over 35 anyway. And in New York, they kind of don't. Yeah.

No, absolutely. When I'm here and I see like aging rock stars at Gelson's, you know what I mean? Like I'll see someone you think is from Kiss. Yeah, and Phil Makeup. And they all look kind of like there's no moisture left in them. Right, that's right. I don't want to throw shade on Kiss.

No, but there but lots of crispy ghosts from the 1980s. That's perfect. That's so perfect. Crispy ghosts from the 1980s. And I think I should go where there's

more humidity. I should go, I should go to New York. I think also in New York, you're allowed to be older. You can get old like Samuel Beckett or something in New York.

You can be like kind of cranky and clever. Sit in a cafe. And wear a good suit. I know. See, that's important. That might do it for me. Well, because everyone in LA wears workout gear.

Especially when they're not working out. Well, look what's happened to me. I'm kind of dressing like a child. Literally, this outfit converse up to a a colorful tee with a something on it yeah this is what i was in sixth grade yeah but you've added on top of the colorful cardigan which brings it back around yeah well this is my this is my this is this italian cardigan that i've been wearing for a long time. Yeah, it's really nice. Thank you. But it is a cardigan.

It is a cardigan. Yeah, which kind of puts you a little, although I have to say, again, I'm kind of worried about this because my wife's favorite item of clothing, of all the items of clothing that she enjoys, cardigans. On herself or on you? On herself. On herself. I have difficulty embracing the cardigan.

Why? Well, I was a punk rocker. Yeah. And sometimes things stick. Do you know what I mean? And I think cardigans was a symbol of oppression. Yeah, but didn't they own it? Didn't they take it on their own and have holes in it?

They did. That's true. I feel like punk had shitty cardigans. You know, that's right. John Lydon or Johnny Rotten, holes in it? They did. That's true. I feel like Punk had like shitty cardigans. You know what? That's right. John Lydon or Johnny Rotten, he had a crap cardigan. Yeah, yeah. In fact, it looked like my gran's cardigan. But my gran had a hanky, a tissue up her sleeve.

I don't think John Lydon had a tissue up his sleeve. In which case, he's a phony. My nana used to hide her tissue in between her boobs. Oh. That's where she... That's kind of saucy. That's a kind of saucy place for a grandma. Like, if she's going to wipe your face with that, it's got...

I'm sure. It's got boobie sweat on it. I'm sure. I'm sure. It's kind of also... I think it's a speciality website as well. That is a category. Yeah, I think it might be.ity website as well. That is a category. Yeah, I think it might be.

I don't know. I'm wrestling with, or not wrestling, I'm struggling with the aging process. I turned 60 this year. Actually, I turned 61 this year. You look great. Thank you. And I kind of feel like we're okay. I mean, I know the internal stuff. Well, you're younger

than me. You're early 50s. Yeah, but I do feel like we are in a profession and the kind of artists that we are. Yeah. Age helps. It kind of does a little bit. Oh, much. Yeah. Yeah, I think when you're a young comedian, I think, in fact,

the last time I talked to you, we talked about this, because when I was younger, my stuff was very angry. Like, who the hell, man? And walking up and down, and I'm just, I have a hard time putting that together now. Well, I'll say that you're doing great, that you even remember our last interview that's better than i'm doing no because i remember it well because every but once a week my wife says you know that tom pap is funny did you see this bit that i've got he did this thing on an instagram i said he didn't do a thing on instagram he he did a special and they cut it up he didn't do a thing for instagram shut up about tom pap i love the idea of her just holding the phone up towards you with my face

on it. Well, it's not even that. What she does is she'll lie in bed and I'll hear her going, you know, once it reminds me of Ted Danson was on my late night show once, well more than once, but

he's a lovely guy, Ted. But apparently Mary used to like watching my show. Mary, his wife, used to like watching my show, but not let him be, didn't like him being there when she was watching. It really made him mad. That's great. I love that. Who makes you laugh then?

Who makes you laugh? Like, do you watch comedians? I don't really watch you laugh? Do you watch comedians? I don't really watch comedians. Do you watch comedians? No, not that often. I mean, well, I have this radio show on SiriusXM. Right. And a lot of comedians come on.

So it's really a comedian haven. Right. So out of respect for everyone who shows up, I'll watch at least some of what they're pushing. A clip on tiktok yeah and some i'll some it'll some i'll go you know it really just depends on just i don't even know what it is but my mood like sometimes in the car i can throw on the comedy channel and i really enjoy yeah hearing everybody and seeing what everyone's talking

about and then other times it's like the most horrible idea it's funny that i feel the same way about it i i wonder though because you're i feel like you're comedy which i now know a great deal more of than i used to apologize the uh it's actually i love it because i feel there is a there's a gentle cleverness about what you do is that the kind of thing that you like when you listen to it? Is that what you're drawn to? Or when you watch it, maybe? Yeah, there is definitely a... I'm always craving a hopefulness.

My biggest love was Carlin growing up. And there were other great ones, like when Eddie Murphy hit when I was in high school. Right. And Steve Martin. And there's a lot of influences. But Carlin was the one,

I mean, he was the one putting out specials pretty much all the time. Right. He was HBO all the time, wasn't he? Yeah, he was like, but it was home box office. Like every two years. Yeah.

And I remember there was one special, and I love him being raw i love him being you know thoughtful and it's why i think his material is actually holding up more than a lot of like his stuff is still being played on you still see yeah but there was this one special where he didn't give you hope at the end like i love hearing about the shit and going through all of the problems but we're gonna to be okay or but we can do this yeah and one he didn't and he just i think it might have been the one with the with the tombstones on the in the background i know exactly the one you mean yeah and he didn't

and i was crushed at the end of it i didn't like that one either yeah i mean i liked it because it's carlin but yeah i didn't like it it's like there are boy albums when I'm like, yeah, that's not your best. Yeah, right. The one where, you know, what was the... Some of the later ones when you're wearing spandex. Yeah, you can't do it. You can't put that out, even if you're David Bowie. So what drew you into it in the first place?

Was it then as a kid? Yeah. Because I guess when you were at high school, Eddie would have been bringing out Raw around about then, which was a big, youthful... Well, Delirious was the first one, right? It was? Wasn't it Delirious? It was, I don't know. Yeah, Delirious and then Raw was... Delirious was when he like in the red and doing the ice cream man and all that stuff.

Yeah. And that just exploded. That was every kid was imitating it. But that was the thing. You could have an, a comedy album then. Well, that's final.

That's what got me into it in seventh grade when I was 12 or 13. Like I was funny and I was making my my way i was always funny and hamming it up and i was in the summer where i was with older kids why were you the drug mule or something no everybody went to camp all right and the poor kids stayed behind and it was so it was me with like a bunch of older girls and guys okay and uh my way to kind of like not get kicked out of the group was to keep them laughing and have some kind of value. And that summer I heard Class Clown by Carlin and then Steve Martin's Let's Get Small on vinyl at two different friends' homes. And I realized it clicked that being funny was a job for grown-ups yeah i suppose

that i mean billy connelly did that from the exact same thing for me but yeah but you would listen to the album yeah now you listen to it again and hold it and yeah i i don't think people listen to comedy over and over again yeah i don't know i don't know i mean i mean it seems to me they consume it in 30 second chunks on yeah on their phones i know and even on serious like on the comedy channels you're very rarely hearing a whole thing you're hearing you know little shorter 10 minute bits or something but you know i was getting ready to interview someone yesterday, and I realized, oh, wait a minute. I don't have to sit and watch his special. I can just have it on on my phone and listen to it.

And as I was doing it, I was like, this is so much better than watching it. I love listening to it. I prefer it too. I wonder if that's something to do behind the rise of the podcast as well. Yeah. Listening to it. i i think sometimes when you're watching a comedian walking up and down and trying too hard and stuff i know there's

so much going on why do you wear that shirt yeah what's with his face who does he think he is yeah what is she what is she stop trying to be handsome or why are you trying to look glamorous yeah why are you being sexy yeah yeah that's confusing me right you being sexy? Yeah, that's confusing me. You're sexy, but you're also funny. I can't deal. Do you use the Peloton? That bike? You ever use that bike?

I've never been on it. Well, I'm 60 years old, so I have to guard my prostate jealously. Oh. And the Peloton has a seat on it, doesn't it? A little taint irritator, isn't it? Would that bother your prostate? I think it might. Oh, really? Well, once I got a fever. Is the

prostate on the outside? No. Man, we have the worst doctors in the world. On the outside? What do you think, it's like a conveyor belt? No, it's the prostate. Isn't your butt like the cushion?

If anyone's listening to this show for medical advice, that's really the wrong place to be. The prostate's up your bum and around the corner. So why is sitting on a seat going to be a problem? Well, because it's just like your ass skin is just an envelope, and inside the envelope is the prostate there, and you don't want to... It's not a flimsy envelope.

There's bubble wrap. Speak for yourself. My envelope's a little flimsy around that area, and then it pushes up against it. And also, I'm quite large, so I'm pushing down on the prostate and pushing up on the little thing. I'm guessing you use the Peloton.

I do use the Peloton. With a callous disregard for your... I put a pillow on my seat. Do you really? No. But we brought it up because when you said... You're distracting me when you're watching the video. And it's like, now I'm thinking...

And there's an array of teachers. And it's a video thing. And these beautiful teachers out of london and new york right and uh and i go with this guy matt wilpers who's a gym coach he's just a bald white milky let's let's do this he's great we can and he's so great if he can and the thing that's most the best thing is that he's so great. And the thing that's most, the best thing is that he's not as distracted. Like I went to some of the females who are like working it on the bike and there's cleavage and they're winking at you and I'm trying to pedal with my prostate

and I'm like, I can't. This is too distracting. You know what's weird? My wife is a Peloton instructor. She's not. You know what? Just give me your number. Just, you know what? Why are My wife is a Peloton instructor. She's not. You know what? Just give me her number. Why are we beating around the bush? Just give me her number. When did you say they're coming to town?

I don't have her number. It's in my phone, but I don't know. Can you remember Andy's phone number? The only number I know in my life right now of all the most important people is my wife I don't know my daughters I don't know my parents I don't know I don't know any numbers I plug it and forget it the only number I can remember is the number of the telephone that we used to have in my house when I was a kid I and my dad used to answer it he put'd put his jacket on first, and then when the phone rang, he'd put his jacket on and then answer it. Put his jacket on and answer it?

That's so great. Not really, but sometimes it was like, the phone would go, and it was sort of, excuse me, it was sort of like, well, your dad answers the phone, he's the man of the house. Of course. And he would say,

Cumbernauld 21647. That's how he'd answer? That's how he'd answer. That's how he'd answer. Wow. He didn't even talk like that. That's majestic. Yeah, yeah. It was pretty good.

What was your number when you were growing up? If it's still your number then, don't say it. No, but I'm not going to say it because I do use it as part of my passwords. Oh, I never use it as part of my passwords. You don't? No. Well, not your number or indeed my number or else I wouldn't have said it. Yeah, but I remember that one, of course. That one just rolls off.

It's kind of, the technology change is so odd to me, because telephones, I think, you didn't really think about telephones. A telephone was in the house, and it was like a kettle, like a tea kettle or a refrigerator. And then it just overtook all these things and became the most important thing on earth Yeah. is a telephone.

But yet, a whole generation doesn't want to use it to talk. Yeah. It's funny, I was talking to a friend of mine about this very day. Like,

why will you text when you're driving? Yeah. Like, it's dangerous. Call people when you're driving. Right.

They do not want to use their voice why do you think that is it easier to fake you out if it's a text i don't know it's i don't know i mean fear of intimacy fear that well for my kids it's fear that they they think that it's a call means trouble that we're yelling at them or something like it's one of those does it but they like to facetime they don't like the the soul just the voice but they're they're happy to pick up if it's facetime that's weird i feel like that too now as well yeah because i think that with the facetime if i'm away from home like if you're on the road or something like that yeah i put the facetime allow call my wife i'll put, you know, and she has to stop watching you.

And you see me walking in the background. Yeah, you're in the background going, what about this one, Megan? So a guy's on a Peloton bike, he's got an outside prostate, and he's trying to work around it. I'll put it on and leave it on, and we'll talk like we talk in the house. Right, exactly. And it doesn't feel so far away somehow. Yeah, and it doesn't feel like you have to constantly have something to say. You can have those quiet moments.

Right, the nothing happening thing. Or like you pass gas. This is an official invitation to the Fancy Rascals Stand-Up Show. I, Craig Ferguson, will be performing this fall in your region. You can buy tickets and check out the full list of dates at thecraigfergusonshow.com slash tour. See you there. Or not. Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life in marriage. I don't think he knew how big it would be, how big the life I was given and live is.

I think he was like, oh, yeah, things come and go. But with me, it never came and went. Is she Donna Martin or a down-and-out divorcee? Is she living in Beverly Hills or a trailer park? In a town where the lines are blurred, Tori is finally going to clear the air in the podcast Misspelling. When a woman has nothing to lose,

she has everything to gain. I just filed for divorce. Whoa, I said the words that I've said like in my head for like 16 years. Wild. Listen to Miss Spelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Angie Martinez. Check out my podcast where I talk to some of the biggest athletes, musicians, actors in the world.

We go beyond the headlines and the soundbites to have real conversations about real life, death, love, and everything in between. This life right here, just finding myself, just this relaxation, this not feeling stressed, this not feeling pressed. This is what I'm most proud of. I'm proud of Mary because I've been through hell and some horrible things, that feeling that I had of inadequacy is gone. You're going to die being you. So you got to constantly work on who you are to make sure that the stars align correctly. Life ain't easy and it's getting harder and harder. So if you have a story to tell, if you come through some trials, you need to share it because you're going to inspire someone. You're going to give somebody the motivation to not give up, to not quit.

Listen to Angie Martinez IRL on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Get emotional with me, Radhi Devlukia, in my new podcast, A Really Good Cry. We're going to talk about and go through all the things that are sometimes difficult to process alone. We're going to go over how to regulate your emotions, diving deep into holistic personal development, and just building your mindset to have a happier, healthier life. We're going to be talking with some of my best friends. I didn't know we were going to go

there. People that I admire. When we say listen to your body, really tune in to what's going on. Authors of books that have changed my life. Now you're talking about sympathy, which is different than empathy, right? And basically have conversations that can help us get through this crazy thing we call life. I already believe in myself. I already see myself. And so when people give me an opportunity, I'm just like, oh great, you see me too. We'll laugh together.

We'll cry together and find a way through all of our emotions. Never forget, it's okay to cry, as long as you make it a really good one. Listen to A Really Good Cry with Radhi Dabluqia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Sorry. I'm sorry I got distracted.

I was just wondering if I look fat on your camera right now. No. These cameras that are here filming us, first of all, there's no one here but cameras. There's only cameras on their own. They look like they just arrived. You know what I'm saying? There's nobody behind them.

I bet when everyone's out of here, the cameras talk to each other and they're like, why are those meatbags coming in here? Yeah, they come in here all the time. They kind of look like three-legged spiders with one eye. They're coming to... They do look like aliens.

They do. Yeah. I'm kind of getting freaked out. Did you do hallucinogens when you were younger? Oh, yeah. Did you really? I'm surprised. I thought you were quite a wholesome character uh yeah but you did do hallucinogens yeah i love them really do you still do them no i haven't in quite some time and uh i want to okay but do you want some now i could sell you i know they're kind of they're readily available Well, it seems to be that drugs are like, you can have what you want now.

My friend Bonnie McFarlane, very funny comedian out of New York. Yeah. Yeah. Brilliant. She has a funny run about how it's too late for global warming. This is definitely the end of times. We definitely missed it. It's too late.

Okay. She goes, I think that's why the government, and the government knows it. That's why they're just handing out free drugs to everyone. It kind of feels like it. They're like, here you go, enjoy your end of times drugs. Right. I mean, the, because the entire, I feel like the entire country, you still tour a lot, right?

You still go and do road work. Yeah. It seems to me every city I go to smells like weed. Everywhere. Everywhere. We're Jamaica. We're Jamaica. Yeah, it feels like, I've never been to Jamaica, but I go to smells like weed. Everywhere. Everywhere. We're Jamaica. We're Jamaica. Yeah, it feels like. I've never been to Jamaica, but I assume it smells like weed. Yeah.

And it's everywhere. It really is. Do you enjoy that? I don't. You know, like I was pretty wholesome my whole life and an athlete. And then I got to, like when high school was ending and through college, I just freedom. And I just, I wasn't an athlete anymore and that's where i really got into all the fun stuff and uh it was so great and we used to pine about how this should be legal it's ridiculous why isn't this legal and now that it's

legal all these years later and it just doesn't i have a hard time with it. It makes me moody. I like being high, but the next day or two, I'm sluggish and... It makes me psychotic. It makes me really kind of down. No, it makes... I'm so upset because it's legal now. Yeah, it's a strange...

I wish I could enjoy it, but I stopped enjoying it very early. You did? Yeah, we used to... I used to smoke hashish. I love that. Yeah, Pakistani black hashish or Lebanese red hashish. I only had black.

Yeah, Pakistani black. We used to get this stuff called Nepalese temple balls, which was a mixture of hashish and opium. Whoa. I only had opium once. Yeah, it's a sleepy time. It's a sleepy time drug. But a cozy sleepy time.

Cozy sleepy time. Yeah, but when I was about 18 or 19, because I started very young, I tripped on acid when I was like 16. Wow. It's not a good thing to do. That's really early. It's not good.

But by the time I was 18, I started to experience, I'd get psychotic if I smoked weed. Really? Yeah, like panic attacks and, like, disassociation and everything. Awful. Yeah, I know. It's really unfortunate. Why did you ask about the hallucinogenics in the first place? I think uh i feel like you do seem like someone who would

enjoy an otherworldliness right do you i mean are you you you wouldn't take them now i want was it mushrooms or something well mushrooms and and lsd right and uh it was lsd first for some reason it showed up at the end of high school. It was kind of around. Yeah. There was a time. It kind of was popular for a while. Like meth got popular for a while. Yeah, I never did meth. No, I never did meth.

It seemed so speedy. From the outside, it never looked like fun. Well, you know, I'm from Britain, so teeth are a challenge anyway. And if you add meth on top of that, it's like, where are you going to go with that? Yeah. And then mushrooms went longer and it seemed more natural and more fun and i remember hearing jerry garcia saying or read that in an interview that he he still likes to do it once a year just to clean the

pipes out okay it was such a nice way to say it you know what i mean like and i feel like the pipes have been really calcified at this point but i have this weird thing and maybe you can give me some insight on this doctor someone is on the inside that's it someone gave me mushrooms yeah and this was several years ago and my wife was like oh we should take them and i don't know if she ever has and the idea of tripping with my wife the mother of my children the co-ceo of this fraught enterprise the one you rely on really when you rely on yeah and if if one child calls what's gonna happen with trouble or whatever, it freaked me out to trip with her. Yeah.

So you didn't do it? I didn't do it. They're still in my, they're still wherever they are in the house. Yeah, it may not be legal to have them, so they're in your storage locker. Right. But I often question,

what's wrong with you that you don't want to trip with her? Is it, I don't know if this is something deeper. That doesn't seem like an unreasonable thing with you that you don't want to like trip with her is it i don't know if this is something i totally understand that doesn't seem like an unreasonable thing at all like i know i totally rely on my wife for the sanity of our partnership right and and i can't have her like if she has too much wine or something i'm like because she's not an alcohol i'm an alcoholic so i don't drink but right but she can drink but if she gets tipsy i'm like, because she's not an alcoholic. I'm an alcoholic, so I don't drink. But she can drink. But if she gets tipsy, I'm like, well, what the fuck's going to happen now? Right, exactly.

Holy shit, the Sarge is up. No one's running the base. Right. I mean, it's bad. Yeah, I think you're right. I think that's what it is. I think it is that. Yeah. Is that bad?

Is it Freudian? Is it like that's your mom or something? No, I don't think so. I mean, we're very kind of equal but like if she gets a cold or like she got COVID and yeah it's like when she's like if I get sick the house pretty much it keeps running yeah nothing really happens yeah she goes down like it's oh yeah it's trouble yeah Megan got COVID and I had to make her a sandwich and it was you know you You've always been a hero.

Sometimes you just have to push yourself the extra mile. She said to me as I gave her the sandwich, she said, you haven't made me a sandwich since I was pregnant. I was like, well, I don't even want to overdo it. I don't want to raise your expectation. But she likes to do that

stuff. Yeah. You just really see in their absence how much is... I'm living in a dumpster eating beans out of a can, if I can get a can. I'm telling you. Have you been married a long time? Yes, 23 years. That's quite a long time.

As of a week ago. A week ago, congratulations. Thank you. How did you meet? Was she in comedy? She was, this is a fairy tale. It's a fairy tale? It's a fairy tale. So she was in a castle under a spell. Right. And you had to climb up the side? Right. Of the castle. By her hair. By her hair. We met in New York City at a comedy club called The Comic Strip. Oh, yeah. First place I ever performed. Oh, yeah?

Yeah. Lucian Hold. Lucian Hold. Oh, yeah. Give me my first gig ever in life. Really? Yep. Wow.

Anyway, sorry, you were telling, you met at The Comic Strip. We met there. Yeah. And I had a sketch group and she came and introduced herself because she wanted to be in it.

And I was with Ian Bagg, another great comedian. Yeah, I know who that is. Yeah, he's very funny. And Ian and I were together and she came up and introduced herself. And it was like something sparked where she walked away and Ian went, what the hell just happened? What was that? Like, you can feel like with the two of us. So we're in the back in the booth during a show later on.

Oh, so she got the job. Oh, yeah, she got the job. And she was going home for Thanksgiving. And I said, where are you going? Samara, she goes, I'm going home. I said, where's home? Where'd you grow up? She goes, you wouldn't know.

It's a small town in New Jersey. I said, where? She said, Park Ridge. I said, oh, did you have Miss Conway for kindergarten? No. Really? And we had the same, I was in that same school till third grade. And then I moved one town over. We were a year apart. Wow.

And then we had the same summer jobs. We both worked in this hotel. Never met until the comic strip when we were older. That's bizarre. Yeah. So we had all this history. We knew the same people. We knew the same places. We were at the same parties. It was meant to be. It was meant to be. Now, does she still work in comedy?

No. She did until we had children. Yeah. And then it's all... And then, yeah. And then if we stayed in New York, she probably would still dabble in it. Does she write for you at all, Oliver? No. Megan writes for me. She does? She doesn't really write it.

She goes, this is funny, and then she says a thing, and I go, yeah, it is. Yeah. But I don't give too much away in case it's really funny. Uh-huh. Because then people can say, wow, that was a good bit craig we go yeah she is this weird combination where when i would run jokes by her yeah i don't think she said that was funny once like she was always like yeah yeah and then at a certain point i'm like i gotta try

this i think she's wrong and they like was working yeah but she was just so tough so i i couldn't do that but she's very funny so like she just spouts things out and i steal them that steal them yeah that's what i do as well yeah megan did this one once where i thought god that's the greatest but she was just totally wasn't even trying to be funny. She said, you know, Siegfried and Roy, she said, that proves that God exists. And I went, okay, that's interesting. Tell me why Siegfried and Roy proves God exists. She said, because what are the odds? Like there's always someone for someone.

She said, if you're a young gay Austrian lion tamer walking around Austria saying, oh, woe is me, I am a gay Austrian lion tamer doomed because of my interests to be alone in life. And then you bump into another guy who's also a gay Austrian lion tamer. It's like, there you are. That's proof. You did that as a bit, didn't you? I did. Yeah. Because I remember it. Yeah. And it was. You did that as a bit, didn't you? I did. Yeah. Because I remember it.

Yeah. And it was from Megan saying that. Wow. That's great. And I stole it from her. Yeah. You have to. You ever hear Schimmel's bit?

No. Robert Schimmel's bit? I know Robert Schimmel. I don't know him. I know who he is. He's very funny. He had, one of my favorite jokes of his was Siegfried and Roy. The lion at the end turned and ate Roy or Siegfried.

And he said, I forget the complete setup, but it was the lions are, people act surprised that these lions ate Siegfried or Roy. He said, you take these lions from the jungle, from the wild, and you bring them to Las Vegas, and you spray paint them pink, and they have to do two shows a night. Two shows a night is where you lose me.

At one point, the tiger must have turned to the other and said, this shit ends tonight. Well, as it turns out, because I have to say this because people will go crazy. The tiger that ate Roy didn't eat him. It's like he'd had a stroke

and the tiger picked him up. For real? Yeah, what happens is he had a stroke and the tiger picked him up because it was worried about him. And it looked like the tiger was going tiger on him, but he wasn't. He was moving him. No.

Because he realized he was sick. I never heard that. Yeah, and when he came around, Roy's first thing was, the first thing he said was, like, they didn't put down the tiger. Did you put down the tiger? And they said, no, we didn't do it. Wow. Yeah.

So it was, as it turned out a disney ending to the story that is so nice yeah you've played vegas right yeah do you enjoy it i do enjoy it it's confusing to me though why because i never know who's coming to those shows like whenever i have to promote a show in vegas yeah i like, who? Is it locals that live in Vegas? Because everyone else seems to come in for 72 hours and leave. Do you like the audiences? Yeah. I think the audiences are tricky because I always feel the people that are coming to see you,

like you're part of the buffet, really. It's like you want shrimp or Tom Papa. Right. Here's some tickets to go. Yeah. But I find that those audiences are better than other casino kind of audiences. Vegas now

is a little bit more of a city. It is. When's the first time you played it? Am I having a stroke or do I smell bacon? Somebody might have passed gas. You guys don't smell that? But I don't eat bacon,

so I don't... Did one of you guys pass gas? I think I'm having a stroke. I don't think smelling bacon is a stroke, but... If I have a stroke, will you pick me up in your mouth and take me out? Yeah, I will lift you up, I'll put you in my mouth like a tiger, and I'll take you to another part of the stage, and then people won't put

me down. Are you hypochondriac? i i well i'm getting that way the older i get you are yeah but you you don't like well you don't even i was on my road to be i was on my way to becoming one okay how did you stop i had children no no i know i'm hypochondriac for the kids too. Yeah. Hypochondriac by proxy. It is all fearful. It is. I think having kids is like, until you have kids, most of the great philosophers didn't have children.

Is that true? Yeah. I don't know, but it sounds like, it sounds good. If you think of like Schopenhauer, no kids. Immanuel Kant,

no kids. Descartes, I don't think he had any kids no Plato had like 20 yeah but Plato wrote down Socrates shit now that see we have to remember

about Plato it's like everybody's like Plato's so great well he kind of wrote down Socrates bits right Socrates was doing the bits

and Plato was typing right so I'm not sure I mean I suppose he wrote something. Aristotle's? Aristotle's? Maybe. Chipotle?

Chipotle. Why do you think that is? Because I think when you have kids, your worldview changes. Can't think of anything else. Well, you don't have time. I mean, I think Bertrand Russell had like 13 kids. Wow. But I think it kind of makes, I mean, I don't know.

Without having kids, I feel like you're missing a piece. If you're trying to develop a worldview and philosophy, why we're all here, et cetera, et cetera. It seems like without going through that experience, it seems like it was kind of like the hypochondriac thing. I was becoming a hypochondriac because I was becoming too self-involved. It was me, me, and my thing. Well, all philosophy is that. Yeah.

It disappears up its own ass right past its outdoor prostate. Yeah. So unless you have that balance, and part of me is saying this because I'm being judgmental of them but also because I'm not going to read all their stuff anyway so I want an excuse of why I'm not reading it

right I'm not going to read your stuff you don't have kids I'm not reading it you never had kids so shut up yeah I'll just read the quotes I see on t-shirts

I think it's quotes on t-shirts is usually enough yeah it sums it all up I went down a rabbit hole with all that stuff for a while. Are you drawn to that?

Yeah, I am. You know what? I'm drawn to it in podcasts. I like listening to people debate about it. I like the... When I was a little after college, maybe 8, 10 years after college, I started reading some of it

and I realized quickly there's no end to this. No. This is going to suck up a lot of time. you know some of you get some things out of it which are cool but this is really endless and no one reaches the end or has an answer but now with podcasts i really do like listening to people muddle through the same questions well let's listen to it let's muddle through some of those questions. As a philosopher,

we are now two philosophers sitting here. Yeah, no. Does that mean that we're no longer doctors? No, we're doctors of philosophy. Okay. We're kind of like Dr. Phil. In the sense that we're doctors, but nobody really knows of what.

And we just talk too much. We just have big opinions. Yeah, we have big opinions and we shout. And very judgy of other people. Yeah, and judgmental of other people. I mean, it's like, what you need to do? It's like, whoa, come on, is that helpful? Sound like you're wrong to me.

Yeah, no, you're just a bad person. What? This isn't helpful at all. It really isn't. No. Anyway, so we are both, I think we're both post-enlightenment philosophers, yes? All right. So we're discussing philosophy after Descartes.

Yes. In the modern world. All right. So Descartes in Discourse on Method. Have you read that? No. All right. So that's the book he wrote.

He's quite young. Didn't have any kids. And he wrote a book called Discourse on Method, which I'm going to paraphrase it, obviously. Okay. But he said that he was going to prove the existence of God using reason instead of faith. So it wouldn't be revelatory kind of like burning bush things.

He would base his entire belief on God on reason, giving birth to the enlightenment, I think. And he would only base it on stuff that he'd experienced personally. That was his reason. And I think that's the basis for stand-up comedy. Of the type that you do, certainly aha of the type that you do certainly and the type that I do in the searching

this is all searching for validation of well maybe at some level it's a search for validation but it's also a search to try and explain how fucking crazy everything is or how crazy it seems to be or or look just looking at something from a different angle yeah it's not a flower it's uh it's proof of

the existence of god or it's not just siegfried and roy entertainers although this is my wife's philosophy it's proof of the existence of god you know what i mean it's like right trying to find but you're saying not just to solve not just to make sense of the world, but actually to prove that there is a God? I don't know. Do you think there is a God? I do, but it's a tricky... It's a tricky... Like, we'll call it God.

Right. But there's so many different definitions of what people believe is a God. Angry Santa on a cloud. I don't think that's real. I mean, but maybe. I don't know't know i mean it's people's interpretation like it seems to me at this point that every organized religion every form of meditation every small practice they're all they're all acknowledging a presence of this constant hum.

Right. That we all sense is there. And Christians interpret it and pulled it down and tried to make sense of it and say, this is this God. Right. And Muslims did that. And TM says, get quiet and tune into that right so i believe that that is god right that thing that that right that force the the sure yeah i think the but it's unknowable it is ultimately unknowable well see i think that is, there are areas of certainly early Christian philosophy

where that was part of the deal. There was a guy called Origen of Alexandria. Are you familiar with him? No. Origen of Alexandria was a late second century, early third century, so pre-Roman Empire Christianity. A lot of his stuff was lost because it was burned in the library of Alexandria. Fire. But he was excommunicated about 500 years after he died because he said that God was unknowable and there could be no

physical representation and manifestation of the deity. Which is not what you want to hear when you're selling chachkas yeah when jc shows up right so so no he very much believed in and jc but he very much did not believe in physical representations of idolatry basically i guess is what it'd be called later on crosses and and right and symbolism and stuff that you couldn't know that and people get very upset with him because of that but he was but he was he believed in jesus he did believe he was a christian yeah he believed in the in the idea of christ being the messiah and the reason like i always had a problem with that until it's not that I don't have a problem with it, I still struggle with it.

But I read C.S. Lewis, you know C.S. who wrote The Narnia? Yeah. He was a very big Christian apologist. And he wrote a couple of books, What Christians Believe is a very good one of them. And he talks about what you just talked about. Which is, when he was an atheist, which is why he's not, when he was an atheist, and of course he was at one point,

he said it's too religious a position to take because you're saying that everybody else is wrong. Whereas he said if you're a Christian, you can say, well, the Hindus and the Muslims are, they don't have it right. We have it right. Or if you're a Muslim, you don't have it right. We have it right. Or if you're a Muslim, you say, we have it right. But what you're not saying is that there is no God.

And he said it's like arithmetic. There's only one correct answer, but some answers are pretty close. But there's only one correct answer. Right. And I still don't buy that either. Yeah. But I like your idea of the home. Yeah, well, I feel like it, for me, is an overwhelming sense of something, of that thing, that God thing.

And we have millions of human beings trying to wrangle that down and interpret it. And, you know, I feel like they're all right and they're all wrong. You know what i mean but i do were you raised in religion i was raised catholic right in the same church that bill maher went to okay he was uh older than i was but we lived in the same town and it's funny because he starts his whole documentary against religion religiosity i think it's yeah religulous religulous yeah in front of the stained glass that i looked at as a kid from the pews oh that's interesting yeah he he's very

anti-religion very anti-religion and i got a lot out of it i enjoyed it uh catholicism yeah just going to church did your kids get confirmed and stuff they didn't no my wife because kindergarten that whole story she went to the same church she comes out on the bill maher side right more than my side i think i'm too afraid to i would be too afraid to be completely atheistic as well because you're like that's when you don't want to get wrong right at the end yeah you know i know there's lots of problems with the church and there's lots of problems but that's not the same as god yeah so but we didn't baptize our kids and one kind of gravitated away and kind of like to reason and my other one is always looking for

a church like she's always she wants looking satisfied and i got and i had i was more that way like i got i liked going someplace not as a kid i was fighting it you know but i like one hour out of every week where you're just tending to that thing that puzzle that god that you that spirit that thing i got a lot out of it i think it made me kinder i think it made made me more, you know. Helps a lot of people. Yeah, like with all the, you know. And I don't practice and go to church anymore, but I still. You still think of yourself as a Catholic.

Yeah. Yeah. To some degree, yeah. Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life and marriage. I don't think he knew how big it would be, how big the life I was given and live is. I think he was like, oh yeah, things come and go. But with me, it never came and went. Is she Donna Martin or a down and out divorcee? Is she living in Beverly

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and everything in between. This life right here, just finding myself, just relaxation, just not feeling stressed, just not feeling pressed. This is what I'm most proud of. I'm proud of Mary because I've been through hell and some horrible things. That feeling that I had of inadequacy is gone. You're going to die being you. So you got to constantly work on who you are to make sure that the stars align correctly. Life ain't easy and it's getting harder and harder.

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Guess what, Mango? What's that, Will? So iHeart is giving us a whole minute to promote our podcast, Part-Time Genius. I know. That's why I spent my whole week composing a haiku for the occasion. It's about my emotional journey in podcasting over the last seven years, and it's called Earthquake House. Mango, I'm going to cut you off right there.

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stores stay in business, and of course, is there an Illuminati of cheese? There absolutely is, and we are risking our lives by talking about it. But if you love mind-blowing facts, incredible history, and really bad jokes, make your brains happy and tune in to Part-Time Genius. Listen to Part-Time Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. genius listen to part-time genius on the iheart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts do you think about the inevitable much yeah yeah i don't yeah wow i'm thinking about everything else all the time you think about it you think about it all the time i think about it pretty often yeah i suppose so the older i get the more i'm like, yeah, this isn't so distant anymore. No, I lost some people really young,

like some friends when like eighth grade, ninth grade ages. Oh my Lord, what happened? Accidents. I've lost a lot of best, I've lost three best friends. Good grief. From 14 to 22. That's horrible grief for from 14 to 22 that's horrible i'm sad it is

hard to hear that yeah it was it was rough but it was but it definitely gave me a perspective of how death is always there sure and it it it alleviated a fear of it really right it gave me it didn't give me like comfort but it gave me just a perspective that you know this is all very temporary right and so i always kind of with a little you know a little smirk was like when people would be like i can't believe she died at 85 or anything yeah yeah well i can't believe like yeah people seem shocked by death when it happens or that they're or that they're heading that way right and just so i think from going through that early on i've always been just kind of like yeah guys yeah this is i yeah yeah you're not getting closer to it just because you're getting older you've been close to it all the time

the idea of it though do you ruminate on the apres-ski of it all? do you think of what's next? I really am hopeful that it continues in some form

I really do I really well i i think that would be awesome when you start to you know when you start to i have a really hard time getting my head around physics and time and space but like when you start to deal with like there's all versions of this happening all the time at different places and everywhere all at once yeah it's just like i mean it it just seems so spectacular and so magical this life and that if and if what i understand these physics people are poking around there's a great guy i don't know if you've come across him his name is brian co, not the actor Brian Cox. He's an astrophysicist, and he lectures, I think, at Cambridge or Oxford. He's a contemporary, probably, of you or I,

somewhere a little older than you, maybe a little younger than me, maybe. But he wears Joy Division t-shirts and listens to good music and understands references that we would understand and is very good at explaining massive astrophysical... Really? Yeah, he's great at it. And does he help you retain it? Yeah, you'll find him on...

Have you heard? Did you guys get the internet in the Valley? Not yet, but it's coming. We're getting that in Starbucks. So when you get the internet, look up Brian Cox, astrophysicist, and he did, he's done a bunch of shows

for the BBC. Oh, okay. He's like, you know, he's good friends with Eric Idle. Do you know Eric? Yeah, yeah. I don't know him,

but yeah. Right. So, well, Eric is friendly with him and Eric's very drawn to all of that as well. yeah.

If you write that, just remember that you're standing on a planet that's all accurate right all the physics all the science in that song is correct

which I just love I adore Eric that's amazing but he's very very interesting and very very good and he did this he did this show

for the BBC and he was talking about the multiverse the idea of everything being everywhere in time. And I'll screw it up because it's complicated. But basically, everything exists all the time is a possibility. Right.

And we can travel forward through it, but we can't travel backwards through it. It's just not allowed. It's like a valve. I put the word valve in. He didn't use the word valve. I like it. It's helping me but when my father died my oldest son was very young

I think he was four or five when my father died and he was very upset and we were lying in the back garden in the backyard in LA and we were looking at the stars and my dad had just died and my son was crying. And he said, Dad, I don't want anything like this to ever happen to us.

I said, well, you know, okay. And he said, can we just stay here lying in the backyard looking at the stars forever? And I said, yes. Yes, we can. And I thought I was just being nice to him and years later yeah that kid who's now growing up and he's got a lot of opinions about things and he's very smart and we're watching Brian Cox in a house in Scotland in my house in Scotland and we're watching it and Milo was there and he's growing up now and he was explaining that everything exists all the time was and I said do you remember that when when papa died and he said I do I said I thought I was just being nice to you I didn't realize I

was telling you the truth and then we both cried for a bit yeah that was gorgeous yeah try not to cry right now yeah is that because but it is and? And I think that that, to me, because of a lack of understanding and having a scientific Brian Cox mind, I call it all magic. Right. You know? I think that's just semantics. I think, you know, science is magic that's been explained. Right.

Right. I think a little bit. Or magic is science that hasn't been explained. Yeah. So I am open to all of it and i i really am hopeful for all of it and i like like too much weird stuff happens all the time of dreaming and having it happen glimpses you know i know people say it's coincidence but it happens with such frequency of thinking about your wife and her calling me or any of those kind of things that are always happening all the time. I totally am all in and embracing and open to any kind of mystical explanation that this is indeed reality.

I think that that's how I like to be with it too yeah i think that is people get very upset if other people don't agree with their belief system which i can't understand yeah like if you're so secure and you're in your belief why would it bother you that i don't believe it or I have a different point of view. I don't understand it. I don't need people to believe what I believe. Because you're also, from what I can tell, open to

anything. You're fluid. You're not going to be static like, no, this is the way it is. You know what I mean? But that's interesting because if you're a Catholic, that kind of is the deal. This is the only thing that's true. Yeah, I know.

But that's why I'm not all in. Yeah, that's why you're not all in. I mean, to deny that my life and worldview wasn't influenced by it is wrong. You know, it's definitely in there. But there's a lot of grown-up things that i have to put aside right you know i remember being back in church with my for a baptism and i was sitting next to my sister and she hadn't been to church from forever and she was like seething during the and i was like just take the good parts yeah she's like, this is misogynist. This is, I'm very uncomfortable being here.

I'm not into this. And I was like, yeah, but what about all the forgiveness and the love? And I know that guy's a creep and I know that he's done some weird stuff. And yeah, that doesn't make sense. And they're just sliding abortion in there. And I know, but Look at the stained glass. That's maybe one of the darkest things I've ever heard you say.

You tend to, though, as far as I can tell from your work, you tend to stay away from the controversy of that, though. Don't you? You kind of, you, you, you, your comedy to me seems personal, which I like. It is. I like that. I'm drawn to that because no one else can do it.

He said Tom Papa, which is great. So if I'm watching Tom Papa, that's what I'm getting. I'm not doing anybody else. I don't feel like I'm, I have, I don't think I'm smart enough to wrestle some of the big things down and then present them as fact. Right. You know what I mean? I do feel like I'm more metaphorical. I can tell you something about the world based on my relationship with my father or a story about being with my daughter in the supermarket.

I can metaphorically tell tales that maybe will make sense about the world in their entirety. But for me to say, this is my stance on gun control. No, I can't do that. I just don't. They're very complex issues. They're complex issues and they're also

they're very on fire issues. And I think that the reason why I started doing comedy was to try de-escalate dangerous situations that I was in

through an accident of birth. So like if I'm in a violent school yard or there's a violent environment or there's a violent place then humor to me was this is how we stop shit getting worse right yeah like take everybody's mind from here and throw it onto something over here yeah yeah and i i wouldn't feel i wouldn't feel comfortable doing

the stuff that makes everybody angry yeah because that's not how i got into it i know yeah that's a good point everybody already was angry. Right. Yeah. I think they are now, too. I think everybody's waiting for it. Yeah. I mean,

probably the biggest ones right now would be in the States is abortion and guns. Right? And nothing you or I is going to change anybody's mind. Nothing we say is going to change anybody's mind nothing we say is going to change anybody's mind on any side of that debate at all i know but it's because it is becoming very

glaring having two daughters sure and being like oh here's a list of states you're not going to live you know what i mean like holy cow but i just don't i just have a hard time. Like, I feel like there's people that are better at it. I feel like Bill Maher can wrestle down a problem. And he does it very well. And he doesn't, he doesn't care if people get mad at him. No, that's another thing.

That's very, that's, you got to have that. You have to be built that way. Yeah. Bill, Bill is like people, when people yell at him and call him names,

he's like, I don't fucking care. Right. Exactly. I care deeply. Me too. Oh my. I tell a joke about a cat and someone yells at me and call him names, he's like, I don't fucking care. Right, exactly. I care deeply. Me too. Oh, my. I tell a joke about a cat and someone yells at me.

I'm like, I didn't mean it. Yeah. If I get a negative thing, I never read comments except when I do. And when I do, I'm like, oh, no. I can't. I never read comments unless I sense that they're going in a very positive direction. Right. Then I'll soak them in and then they hit you with a bad one.

Then there's the crazy. Yeah. It's like, you know, people used to say, I remember at the beginning, people were saying, if you read the good reviews about yourself, you have to read the bad ones. Do you? No, you don't. You only have to read the good ones. I'm with you.

I'm so glad you said that. You only have to read the good ones. I'm with you. I'm so glad you said that. You only have to read the good ones. I always hear that. Only read good reviews about yourself. Yeah, why do I have to read the bad ones? It's like when people say, my wife is my toughest critic. I say, well, then your marriage is fucking doomed. My wife, like I'll say stuff and she'll go, you are so great.

Thank you. You're nearly as good as Tom Papa, she will say. Sometimes I'll just stand there with my wife and she's not giving me enough praise and I just kind of like linger like a puppy. And then you can see her clock it and be like, you're really great. I'm like, oh, thank you. That's what was happening this morning with Megan.

I was getting all offy because she was telling me how good you were. And I was like, I know he's good. That's why I asked him to do the show because I know he's good. She went, to do the show because I know he's good. She went, yeah, but, you know, he's really good. And I went, yeah. And then there was a hopeful moment.

She went, you know, he's not you. And I went, yeah, okay. Yeah, thank you. It's too late. But it is what it is. Tom, it is a joy to talk to you. You too. I really am a huge admirer of your work.

Likewise. I don't know if you are who you say you are, but if you are who you say you are, then I'm a huge admirer of you. If you have a secret double life where you're being horrible, then...

No, I'm pretty... This is pretty much what you get. I think that's... Word on the street is that you are that guy. Yeah. You work with Joe Bolter, of course.

I know. I was just thinking that. I was just thinking, I really enjoy talking to you a lot and, you know, we see each other not often enough. Right.

And I feel like even when there's no podcast going on, we should hang. I think that'd be a lovely thing. It would be lovely. Yeah. And it would be really cool and we can keep the wives out of it,

but it would be really cool just because I know it would probably bother Joe Bolter that you and I ultimately become friends. That's a good thing. Now, Joe, for those of you who don't know, which I presume is most people, Joe is the producer of your show. And Joe writes for me sometimes. He's very funny.

He's very funny, and also he was the front end of the Panamime Horse on the old Late Night show. Yeah. Now, when you see Corden wrapping up that show, what do you get? Financially, not much. No, I mean, what do you get

from his experience in wrapping it up? Because you wrapped it up kind of early uh like he did eight years i did 10 yeah and that's you know a lot of other guys go for 20 or 30 years yeah i think james and i had a advantage over uh because if you watch trevor norah wrapped it up too true and i think what you if you grow up in the United States and the tradition of late night is soaked under your bones, then you have a reverence for it that I never had. I don't think James has.

Got it. And I don't think Trevor has it either. I think it's a gig. Right. And it's a good gig, and it's lovely, but it's also you wear a suit and you sit behind a desk. And I come from a whole ethos, which the worst thing you could do is wear a suit and sit behind a desk.

You were always clawing it off in little increments. And it was. And I think that, in all honesty, I think that's what it is. That if you're born into it, you can stand it longer. I remember saying to James, you'll stay 10 10 but you'll want to go after eight he said i said you want to go after six because i wanted to go after six and and and he said oh i i don't know what i'll do i went that'd be my guess and and he stayed longer than

i thought he would i stayed longer than i thought i would. I stayed longer than I thought I would. Right. Is it something you would ever do? Are you drawn to that? No, I was early on. It seemed, I like hosting things. Yeah. I do like hosting things. You're good at it. Thank you.

But that gig, I don't know. It doesn't have the appeal any longer. I think the place that it has in the culture has kind of got changed changed yeah yeah i don't know i just feel like it's not the i host other things yeah you know i host these radio shows and podcasts and things and it's like we're doing enough of that i'd rather take with the other energy and put it towards writing my books and maybe making a film that's ultimately how i felt with it was it was making me do the same thing over and over again but i i will say this that what really did

it for me and this was about five or six years if you walk into a i noticed it after five or six years it was happening from the very beginning from the first day you walk into a building and your photograph is everywhere on all the walls of the building, all the offices, everybody's office. There's photographs of you everywhere. And then all the stationery and all the paper and all the envelopes, it all has your name on it. Everything is your name is everywhere and your photographs everywhere. And there's about 150 people there. And all they want to do is make sure you have a good day.

It's fucking hell. Really's hell really and i didn't realize that because it's not that's not real that's crazy time it is crazy time but there is a part that sounds very appealing yeah it it does sound very appealing yeah and I think to an adolescent narcissistic personality like mine, it was great. Until there's a tiny little chink of human decency in me. And I was like, I can't fucking live like this. Yeah, a little humility. And it makes you paranoid. You think everyone's lying to you. Oh, really? Yeah. And you also think anyone who says anything negative to you is your enemy it's fucked it's messed up it took me a while to figure out you ever see that steve harvey thing that remember that it leaked uh like a memo basically to everyone

on his talk show no i didn't of how to act and how to oh god it kind of has shades of what you're talking about like he's in this rarefied space yeah but it's driving him crazy yeah all the little things are real like it was like when not to knock when to you know when yeah when makeup with like all the little like it was a little it's nutty and also people tell lies about you as well that because people they're what forms around you and it's not you it's just the position you're in so what forms around you is access is the currency access to the host is currency so people jostle with each other about how to get access to you and what what happens is, they will tell, this is the lie that you hear about everyone.

I first heard it about Letterman. I also heard it about Jennifer Lopez. I've heard it about a bunch of people. And it's this, don't look at them directly in the eye. Have you heard that one? Oh, well, yeah. I fucking heard it about myself.

Did you really? Yeah, I was like, don't look at them directly in the eye. I'm like, what the fuck about me says to you, don't look me directly in the eye? Yeah. So they do that.

I know. So what happens is you, as the person that no one's looking you directly in the eye, think, God, everyone's a bit cold. Right. But the people who do look you in the eye, you go, well, at least this guy can look me in the eye. Yeah, yeah. And you can talk to them. At least this guy can look me in the eye. Yeah, yeah.

And you can talk to them. Did you feel creatively doing the show, doing your things? I felt creatively. That's fine because... That was fun? Yeah, because once you get to the stage, everything's different. Because I wrote pretty much on stage. Right, right.

Your monologues were very different. So I felt okay with that. Do you feel creatively hemmed in when you're hosting, depending on who it is, maybe? Yeah, it's a little, you know, I'm very curious, so it's like fun to talk, and ours is comedy-based, so we very rarely have an actor who I'm not interested in who I've got to go through five minutes with.

It's usually a comic, of regard finding their way and it's kind of a comfortable space I do sometimes get a little bit like I should be I should be writing instead of talking about yeah this guy in his career just remember Socrates, though. He didn't write anything. He didn't write a fucking thing. Nothing. Yeah, and everybody thinks he's great. Very quickly as well,

because I feel like I want to touch on it. Although I don't want to kind of bang on about it. But you know the thing right now, the word that people use is woke, obviously. But the idea that you can say things and not say other things. We talked about it when I was on about it. But the, you know, the thing right now, the word that people use is woke, obviously, but the idea that you can say things and not say other things. We talked about it when I was on your show

a little bit. What's your position on it? Do you find it inhibiting? Do you find that even a thing in your life, is it something you complain about?

I think it was a useful, I mean, woke awakening, right? That word, it was a, hey, hey let's wake up let's snap out of this for a second right should we be saying this about gay people is it right say this about heavy women should we like yeah it was like okay i mean you know from going through the clubs and

stuff early on it was like the stuff that people were saying. We're like, you know, it was. It was rough. And I think that was good. I think that was positive. I think it was cool. And I think it also, in the comedy world, it gave room for a lot of people, a lot of different voices.

I agree. I think it opened up comedy to people that weren't getting in. Yeah, exactly. And you're hearing all these different voices and it's great. I think that was all very positive and then i think there's a negative side to it where people are using it to advance themselves yeah it's a power thing and people are getting you know there's the

big cancels yeah and the big debates and all that kind of stuff but there's also a very subtle under thing of of people not people losing opportunities and things based just on who they are sure and that's anti-woke isn't it yeah that's kind of like it's like a race racism kind of gone around the wheel and there's a lot of that and i so I think it's been abused. I think humans will take advantage of any situation to advance themselves. Certain humans will do that no matter what the situation is. Yeah. I think the only thing that I felt, but it was the idea of shouting down the blue hair kids.

If you were a big-timey successful comedian, it seems a little like bullying to me and I did what do you mean well you know that like you would go this is like I remember because I was doing it I was like I was to that same kid that was telling you about my son I was like now you can't see what you want to say anymore and he said what do you want to say i said but what do you want to say that you can't say well nothing but other guys can't say that well them dad you know i mean what can you not say that you want to say i said nothing actually yeah uh there is a there is a a part that i feel like we're not celebrating each other anymore

it was fun to talk about what we are and the warts like my Italian family and make all those jokes about that and the Chinese family and make all the jokes about that it was cool and it was fun

and we are different you talk to all comedians if I talk to Russell Peters And it was like, it was cool and it was fun and we are different and we do grow. You know, you talk to all comedians. If I talk to Russell Peters, he'll go off about Indian families and it was just like, and it's great. And I love that because it's all families and it's all culture and I love that soup. And that you can't even say where that person came from or where you came from. Yeah, I know. Like that part, it's...

I think it's the algorithm. We're not celebrating it. That's just AI getting in the way of human interaction. It's like making people believe they all have to be part... They have to agree in order to get along. I mean, I have good friends, good friends, who I think are assholes, but they're my friends. Right.

Right, exactly. What can you do? Yeah, I was trying to work this out on stage that, you know, there's no secrets anymore. We've kind of, through technology and research, we've kind of unveiled everything about everybody. And it's kind of

upsetting because you don't have any heroes anymore. It's like, well, Martin Luther King cheated on his wife, or JFK did this, and all these people anymore. It's like, well, Martin Luther King cheated on his wife, or JFK did this, and all these people, and we're tearing everything down. But I'm hoping that it seems like we have to come out of it with the understanding there's no perfection. That kind of is going to be the lesson,

that the good things that they did should override the small foibles that they well and also that that be realistic about about what life is like i i've been doing this thing in the act recently about you know when megan markle and prince harry said there's a racist in the royal family like yeah it's a. If you don't know who the racist is in your family, it's because it's you. You know, I mean, it's like any Thanksgiving dinner where grandpa starts talking, here it comes. Yeah, here we go. And I think that people can have views which you find distasteful.

Yeah. But I mean, look, I had one joke in a special and it cost me a game show. What? Yeah. But I mean, look, I had one joke in a special and it cost me a game show. What? Yeah. And you know, for my work, this isn't coming from a hateful place. The joke was misinterpreted and I knew what I was doing and it was very clear in the joke and someone saw it in my special and they caused a problem at the entity. And they, so we don't have it now. And in analyzing whether or not they started going through all my stuff,

when they were trying to figure it out, Craig, they went through all my 30 years of work. Everything. Yeah. I don't know how many six Joe Rogan three-hour podcasts each. They went through everything. Could not come up with one thing. Yeah.

And you have this one joke that was misinterpreted, and they tore it all down for that. That's fucking stupid. So for that, that's why I'm very cognizant that it can go too far. Yeah. And that does sound like it. Yeah. So it's going to take an adjustment.

We kind of blew it up. This is nice and we can, all the positives. Now it's gotten too far. Where's the balance? Where are we going to find like, okay, we're all better as a culture, but we haven't lost our sense of humor. From your mouth to God, whatever that is. Ears.

Yeah. I don't know if a vibration has ears. Probably has a lot of them. Yeah, maybe mostly ears. That's why he hums. Want to know how to leverage culture to build a successful business? Then Butternomics is the podcast for you. I'm your host, Brandon Butler, founder and CEO of Butter ATL. And on Butternomics, we go deep with today's most influential entrepreneurs, innovators, and business leaders to peel back the layers on how

they use culture as a driving force in their business. Butternomics will give you what you need to take your game to the next level. Listen to Butternomics on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling, as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life in marriage. I just filed for divorce. Sometimes chaotic life in marriage. I just filed for divorce.

Whoa. I said the words that I've said like in my head for like 16 years. Wild. Listen to Miss Spelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Angie Martinez. And on my podcast, I like to talk to everyone from Hall of Fame athletes to iconic musicians about getting real on some of the complications and challenges of real life. I had the best dad and I had the best memories and the greatest experience. And that's all I want for my kids as long as they can have that.

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