Joy, a Podcast. Hosted by Craig Ferguson - William Villanova

Episode Date: September 19, 2023

On This Week's Episode, Craig talks to William Villanova, the funeral director of 30 years who is the President of Frank E. Campbell – The Funeral Chapel in New York City. A leader in his profession, he has dedicated his career to mentoring people from all walks of life throughout their careers. William is well known for implementing and promoting the highest standards in funeral service. This one goes deep, EnJOY! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling, as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life in marriage. I just filed for divorce. Whoa. I said the words that I've said, like, in my head for, like, 16 years. Wild. Listen to Miss Spelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Angie Martinez.

And on my podcast, I like to talk to everyone from Hall of Fame athletes to iconic musicians about getting real on some of the complications and challenges of real life. I had the best dad. And I had the best dad and I had the best memories and the greatest experience. And that's all I want for my kids as long as they can have that. Listen to Angie Martinez IRL

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These guys are not going to get away with it. The zombies are too popular. Listen to the true story of the fake zombies on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Craig Ferguson Fancy Rascal Stand-Up Tour continues this fall. For tickets, go to thecraigfergusonshow.com slash tour. See you on the road! My name is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast is Joy.

I talk to interesting people about what brings them happiness. Meet Bill Villanova. Bill's an undertaker. He's graduated in mortuary sciences. And he is one of the most interesting conversations I think I've ever had. Enjoy this one. I want to talk to you about your job, but the thing is, before we talk about your job, because looking at your story, it's, I mean, you're a decorated Coast Guard, right? A decorated member of the Coast Guard.

Now, the Coast Guard is an area of the service that I don't know much about, and I don't think many people do. Can you talk me through what the Coast Guard does? The Coast Guard, for the most part, they're, you know, on duty 24-7. Right. You know, they're underneath the Department of Homeland Security. I had the honor of working alongside some very, very talented men and women. I was with the Coast Guard Auxiliary and just- What do you do then? Do you get on a boat and catch bad guys? Yeah, so well, no bad guys, but we did safety patrols alongside the actual Coast Guard. Right.

We also had, you know, we worked alongside them on some ships as far as their, you know, working in galleys and doing port security during Fleet Week. Fleet Week in New York, yeah, you need a lot of security for that. Oh my God. Is that still a thing? I've forgotten about that. Oh yeah, yeah, well, it's very big, both, and in all the port areas here, you know, along the West Coast and the East Coast. But, you know, as a career, I've always been dedicated to funeral service. But for me, it was always about volunteering and giving back to the community. That's very interesting. Yeah, thank you.

And so when I was younger, I started volunteering with the fire department in my local community. And I saw the opportunity to participate with the U.S. Coast Guard in the auxiliary program, so I started to do that as well. And I did that for just about 10 years until my life became more demanding, and then you really can't serve too many masters. Right, I get it. So let me talk to you a little bit about the funeral business which you ran, and which you're still in, right? Yes, sir. Right. So because it's an unusual thing, my presumption is it's a family thing, or is it something

you were drawn into? Because you are someone who's clearly drawn into service, and in a way, funerals are kind of that, aren't they? Absolutely. It's definitely a service industry. Your intuition's correct. So was your family in the business when you were a kid? Is that how you were pulled into it?

When I was younger, I would cut the grass at my godfather's funeral home, and I would paint the stones on the driveway and then help with visitation and funerals. And my dad died when I was 16, so the male figure in my life was my godfather, so I spent a lot of time at the funeral home. My life was my godfather, so I spent a lot of time at the funeral home. And it was a normal transition for me to go into funeral service. And having that opportunity was, I don't want to say it was simple, because it was a lot of work, a lot of dedication. Ultimately, I had to go to college and get a degree in mortuary science.

Is that really? I wasn't aware that it was so tight. Well, I guess, of course it must be. I mean, it's wide and varied, and we'll get into that in a bit. But I guess, you know, the tragedy of your father dying when you're 16, which is awful, and I'm sorry about that. That's a very tender age. Doing something which I'm guessing is getting the interest of a lot of the other kids at that time as well.

Did it make you feel kind of weirdly apart from it, or did it give you a kind of, did you feel like this is something special and it's my family does this and we feel a little i did feel special yeah you know and and even you know funeral service you know wakes and visitations you know would go to nine ten o'clock at night and my friends were ready to go to the bar oh you see my people we go for days you know exactly so you you went you had this opportunity to work in a profession that was really a celebration of life like it is today as well. And so it was a normal thing to be around that. It delayed me getting to some parties and doing things with my family, even holidays.

Death doesn't take a holiday, Craig. And so you're always available to a family. And that's something I learned at a young age. So it's kind of a vocational position then, right? It's not a job for everybody because you're dealing with a situation, you're dealing with death. That's what you're dealing with. And in our society, not all societies, but in our Western society, there's still a big taboo and a kind of a lot of fear around it, right? You know, there is. And it is taboo. There is some fear.

You know, people feel that if you speak about death, it's going to happen. If you discuss funeral services, you know, automatically you're accelerating your own mortality. It's like you're inside my head, Bill. And that's good, too.

But that opportunity for us to have those discussions about funeral service, it is taboo, but we should be having those discussions now. Sure. And when we think about all the things that we prepare for, so I prepared to come here today to be with you. And thank you again for having me, Craig. I appreciate it. I appreciate you being here. And we prepare to where we live, who we marry, where we go on vacation, all these things we prepare for.

Right. We should prepare for our funeral service. It's really a gift for our families. Right. Have you got yours done? I have everything written down. Right. Like a will, sort of.

Like a will. I have a lot of information there. Is it going to be elaborate? Is it a big one? It is going to be elaborate. Good for you, man. I'll share part of it with you. Okay. So my thought is that, uh, as I leave church, uh, if we can, uh, when I enter the vestibule in the rear of the church, the doors will open the vestibule, be filled with smoke, love it. Casket with the pallbearers will go into

that smoke and the doors would close. Oh, this is great. They would hustle me down the stairs to the hearse and the hearse would pull away. And then everybody would leave the church wondering where I went. You've gone. And only my family and friends will know where I am. That's beautiful. All right. Now you're one of my friends, Craig. I'm going to let you know exactly where I'm going to be. Where are you going to be? I don't know. Okay. I'll let you know. All right. Well, here's mine. I need you to A, tell me how technically possible it is and B, later on,

maybe give me an estimate price-wise. So, I think in Scotland. Absolutely. Okay. I'm on the beach in a Viking longboat, right?

I'm tied up there, you know, on the pyre that will be lit. As the boat's pushed out on a flow tide, right, I'll be pushed out. And as the wind takes the sail and carries my body to sea, my two sons will fire flaming arrows into the boat and the boat will burn as I head out to Valhalla. So is that normal?

Well, is it normal today? No. But was it normal at one time? Yeah, sure. But, you know, just to ground that conversation, we're a society that's based on rites and rituals. And so for you to even say that, now, whether you're joking or not. I'm kind of half joking. But that is something that if that's what you aspire to have happen, then you start to plan that now. Right. Right?

And so if we do need to speak to, you know, the councilman in Scotland. Right. Because you need to get, I mean, they're not going to let you just put a dead body in the water. You got to get a permit. Correct.

So if it can happen, we can make that happen. Pretty much that's how we approach every day at Frankie Campbell. Do you get a lot of unusual funerals or or are a lot of them kind of cookie-cutter? No. Frankie Campbell is anything but cookie-cutter. All right. What I mean is, do a lot of people want, I like the casket here, I want the thing here, I want the church here, these are the, you know, it'll be Rock of Ages, it'll be Amazing Grace, and we'll all go to the church yard, and then it's Ham, Sandwiches, and O'Malley's.

Right, okay. So, the first thing that we do is we always approach every funeral, and we sit with the immediate members of the family. We make sure we put our pen and pencils down and just listen to them. Get an understanding of what is important to them. How can we celebrate this person's life? Now, whether you are 50 or 85, whatever your age, you have a legacy and it's up to the family to share that information with us so we can create a service to celebrate that person's life that's both personal and memorable. So nothing's cookie cutter. We approach everything fresh. So whether it's

music or decor, a specific casket or dry ice or the Viking boat, whatever it is, whatever it is, and maybe some, and we have some families that have multiple space, multiple places for services. Maybe there is a service in New York and then maybe there's another service that's in Glasgow where the disposition, final disposition will be. So that's when the body's put away. How do you protect yourself? Because death has such a, you know, it's painful. You know, it's painful because you're saying goodbye to people,

and you don't want to say goodbye to them most of the time. And even when it's time, it still contains grief for the living, obviously. And there will be certain deaths, I'm sure, that you've dealt with where you're like, this is someone who's too young, someone that was in a tragic accident, whatever it is, a youngster. I mean, something that's really hard. Is there a clutch mechanism that you can put in for yourself to protect yourself from that pain,

or do you feel all of that pain? Craig, every director that I know that's a good funeral director, as much as we want to shelter ourselves from these very emotional events and the loss of a child, an untimely death of someone, or maybe it was a couple that just celebrated their 75th wedding anniversary. There are these special moments, and it's up to us to be in the moment and to be with them, and nothing prepares you for that. But you hope that, I guess.

Do you get better at it as you've been doing it longer? I think you do get better at it because we then are able to maybe talk a little bit more. Early on, you really don't know what to say to the family. Right, of course. Is this the awkward moment where I should be giving someone a hug and embracing them and letting them know that it's okay to grieve or even to laugh. But we need to be there for people, and that's what's important. I remember that from my parents' services. They died within three years of each other, and I do remember at the funeral service looking to the funeral director

for guidance on how to be because I didn't know how to be. And I figured it wasn't cognitive, but I guess the reaction was I'm looking, like, I don't know how to be here. How should I be here? And, you know, to his credit, he was very good. He was like, sit here. There's your dad there.

This is how we're going to do it. We're going to, you know, and then we're all going to walk over here and we're all going to do this. And somehow that structure was comforting, I think, because there is the great unknown that you're dealing with literally in the room. So let me ask you about this, because we're all human, because we'll all die. You as a young man at your godfather's funeral home, right?

You see dead bodies for the first time, I'm sure, and that's something that many of us still don't see throughout our entire lives. But you see that and it will have an effect on how you view the world, because everybody's experience does. Do you have opinions on life after death? Do you have opinions on what goes on afterwards? Have they changed from when you were 16 and first doing it to where you are now? How does it look for you now?

I've had the pleasure of being around a lot of clergy. And our conversations, I've been asked a lot of questions, and our conversations have been challenging sometimes, right? Because clergy, you know, whether you're a priest, a pastor, a rabbi, you know, they're the pillar in that religious community where they have their belief. And sometimes these conversations challenge that belief as well. I do believe there is something greater, that there is something that is more powerful than just us here today, right? And whether it's a feeling, maybe it's a hope, maybe we want to feel that, that gives us this hope for an afterlife. But I can share a quick story with you. Years ago, a friend of mine came to visit me

and we were sitting in the lobby of a funeral home. And at one point, we both looked to the same direction, her to the left and myself to the right. And at the end of the conversation, she turned to me and she says, earlier, when you looked to the right, what did you see? And I said, I kind of thought I saw somebody walking past the door. And she says, how would you feel if I told you I saw the same thing? So we looked at each other. I said, what are you talking about? And she said that people transition from one state of life to another, and they have to show themselves before they can fully transition to where they need to be. So I was surprised to hear that from her. So I was in my 20s when we had that conversation. It kind of drives things home a little bit.

So I kind of hope that there's something great for us. Are we just complex organisms that have an acuity to do certain things and to build and to be a performer and do all of these things? And then we die and it's all gone? I don't know. It seems like a lot of getting dressed up for nothing, if we're that complex and interesting, and then it all just goes away. It feels like a shame. But I think that my personal belief is that, and it wavers from day to day,

but my personal belief is that I think that we've got time wrong. I think that's what it is. I think that we think time starts and moves forward in one direction all the time I think that's what it is. I think that we think time starts and moves forward in one direction all the time and that's what happens. And I'm not entirely sure now I think that's what it is. I think time is different. How is? Well, in the sense that everything exists all the time at the same time. But we travel through it in our conscious, but it still exists.

And what I mean by that, there's a, and I'm going to be, I'm going to really bad at this, but the idea of traveling, in astrophysics, I think it is, there's a guy called Professor Brian Cox who did a wonderful documentary about it on British television,

and he talks very eloquently about this, and he's a professor of physics at Oxford University and I'm a vulgar lounge entertainer so he's a better source for the information but basically talking about the idea of that everything exists all the time and that for the you and your friend sitting in that funeral parlor 40 years ago 30 years ago whenever it was 20 years ago that's still there but now your thinking is here and your being in the moment is here but that's still there and was always there and will always be there and and the universe exists like that maybe i need less coffee and no hashish ever in my life,

but it's too late for any of these things to have happened. What about, are you a religious man? I'd say that I'm religious, spiritual. Spiritual, but do you attach yourself to any particular, like are you a Catholic? I'm Catholic. Right. But that's probably more background as much as anything, right?

It's background. You know, I do believe that we all have some type of religion that we connect to. Right. For me, you know, it's Catholicism. In my 20s, I went back to the church to sing in the choir because I felt that that was important to me at that time. that that was important to me at that time. And I hope that everybody has whatever it is for each person, for you and for everyone, that there is something that they have. And that religion for me is Catholicism. I, Craig Ferguson, will be on the road once again this fall, bringing the Fancy Rascal Tour to your region.

For tickets and full list of tour dates, go to my website, thecraigfergusonshow.com slash tour. Come and see me live or don't. I'm not your father. Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life and marriage. I don't think he knew how big it would be, how big the life I was given and live is. I think he was like, oh, yeah, things come and go. But with me, it never came and went. Is she Donna Martin or a down-and-out divorcee?

Is she living in Beverly Hills or a trailer park? In a town where the lines are blurred, Tori is finally going to clear the air in the podcast Misspelling. When a woman has nothing to lose, she has everything to gain. I just filed for divorce. Whoa. I said the words that I've said like in my head for like 16 years. Wild.

Listen to Miss Spelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Angie Martinez. Check out my podcast where I talk to some of the biggest athletes, musicians, actors in the world. We go beyond the headlines and the soundbites to have real conversations about real life, death, love and everything in between. This life right here, just finding myself, just this relaxation, this not feeling stressed, this not feeling pressed. This is what I'm most proud of. I'm proud of Mary because I've been through hell

and some horrible things. That feeling that I had of inadequacy is gone. You're going to die being you. So you got to constantly work on who you are to make sure that the stars align correctly. Life ain't easy and it's getting harder and harder. So if you have a story to tell, if you come through some trials, you need to share it because you're going to inspire someone. You're going to you're going to give somebody the motivation to not give up, to not quit. Listen to Angie Martinez IRL on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, everyone. I am Lacey Lamar. And I'm Amber Ruffin, a better Lacey Lamar. Boo.

Okay, everybody, we have exciting news to share. We're back with season two of the Amber and Lacey, Lacey and Amber show on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network. You thought you had fun last season? Well, you were right. And you should tune in today for new fun segments like Sister Court and listening to Lacey's steamy DMs. We've got new and exciting guests like Michael Beach. That's my husband. Daphne Spring.

Daniel Thrasher. Peppermint. Morgan J. And more. You gotta watch us. No, you mean you have to listen to us. I mean, you can still watch us, but you gotta listen. Like, if you're watching us, you have to tell us.

Like, if you're out the window, you have to say, say hey i'm watching you outside of the window just just you know what listen to the amber and lacy lacy and amber show on will ferrell's big money players network on the iheart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts what about the mechanics of mortuary preparation which is i mean until today i did not know that it was something that you had to go to i mean i obviously i imagined there was training involved but i didn't realize that it was something you needed a degree in. And so, obviously, it's an involved and complex subject. So, Craig, you'd probably be surprised, obviously you were today, to hear that you go to college to get a degree in mortuary science. Right. Afterwards, you take your national board exam for any profession. You need to take a board exam.

Right. And then we complete a year-long residency just as a doctor. It's like a doctorate then. Well, yeah, you know, possibly yes. And then you take your state law exam in the state that you wish to practice, like an attorney. Right. And then you start your career in funeral service. It's very interesting to me because the question I want to ask you is that how complex is it?

Is it about the preparation of the remains? What does it consist of? I mean, the education could consist of anything that is in and around funeral service. So, and it's the basics though, right? Just like in any profession, you can learn certain things, how to do it. You can go to trade school and learn how to cut wood, but you do need to get more advanced in your training and your apprenticeship to learn how to build a wall or build a house. So this gives us the basics. What are the basics?

So the basics could be how to conduct a funeral, you know, the components of a funeral. So it's an emotional training as well as a physical training. Of course, you know, the standard, which a procession, a cortege, which, you know, who goes first, the hierarchy and families, and, you know, where the pallbearers need to be. In some churches, the casket will be parallel to the altar. In other churches, it's perpendicular. When we're talking about services for families of the Jewish faith, those funerals happen as soon as possible. And then if you have Christian people, right? I think my mother was around for about two weeks.

Could be, right? And then that is several days of visitation. And I know that in some communities, I think in England and Scotland, even though there are funeral homes, they still have visitations in homes. They sometimes do, yeah. I think mostly now. I mean, I think you can do it, like you say, but I think mostly now, I mean, I think you can do it, like you say, but I think mostly now it is in funeral homes because it is, I think, to do with the volition of the mourner so that you're not put in a position where you're suddenly in the room with the deceased, particularly with kids.

So you can say, would you like to see grandma? Would you not like to see grandma? Would you not like to see grandma? You know what I mean? I was with my mother when she died. And then they asked me, you know, when they said, would you like to see her? And I was like, no. You were with her. Yeah, she's gone. And that's what's left. And I didn't think it was necessary.

But everybody's different, you know. And I know my brother and my sisters went this year, and I don't know. It seems like it's a very personal thing. It seems to make you very empathetic. You seem to care very deeply about what people feel. Is that part of your training, or is that who you are? No, it's who I am. You're trained to complete tasks in any profession, but in funeral service, you're trained to complete tasks and prescribe methods or whether it's a policy or procedure, whatever we have to do possibly with preparation or with logistics, working with churches and outside entities and transportation. That is just day-to-day.

But really, a good funeral director needs to connect with people, needs to connect with families, and have the ability to be mindful and be present. So you can't teach that. Have you ever been at a funeral and been dealing with someone and you thought, I really dislike this person intensely? even although they're going through a terrible period in their life or a very difficult period in their life i can't wait to get away from here i've been in situations that i've been trying yeah uh and um i may not i may not always agree uh with things

that are happening uh around me uh but you know at the end of the day, I'm a professional, and my focus is to do my very best for everyone. I think that if I was ever put in a situation where I felt morally or ethically compromised, I would need to take a big pause and question whether or not this is something that I want to continue. So you've never been in that situation? I haven't. And part of it, I don't think it's luck, Craig. I think it's the way that we approach our services, the way that we approach everything, that we kind of set a standard and we set the parameters. And I think everybody kind of works within that.

So we don't let things get out of hand. What about if you get a situation where someone wants to have an open casket for the deceased, and perhaps it's been an accident where the results are dramatic and difficult to look at. Is it part of a mortuary preparation to try and give the person a look which is not going to alarm the mourners? Is that part of it? Absolutely. Our ability to, you know, part of our preparation is embalming. Right.

And that is to... What is embalming? I'm not quite sure what that is. Certainly. It's a temporary preservation. Right. So we can make sure that a family's loved one is in a state that is as appealing or as pleasant as possible. And in situations where someone dies of an extended illness or if it was a tragedy that compromised the person. We put a tremendous amount of effort and use all of our talents to make sure that a

family can, if they wanted to have an open casket visitation, if they wanted to even just have a private time together, that we can afford them that. And that is important more than you know, Craig, because I have had families that said, oh, you know, we don't want to see mom. But then a month later they say, was mom in the casket? Oh, really? Or, you know, I'm wondering, you know, did she have her dress on? Or, you know, did she have those rosary beads with her? And that's why it's so important to just, even if it's just a half an hour together. Do people ever take photographs?

Because now the phones are everywhere and people take, it's like they don't trust their own memories anymore. So people have to have a photograph of things. Do they photograph dead people? I'm sure people do. One of the policies that we have for our staff at the funeral home is we're not allowed to use our phones in those areas. But we can't control what a family member does, and I'm sure it happens, right? Because that's our society now. Yeah, no, it seems so kind of, I don't know, it does seem a little odd to me. So what's the wildest one you've done? Have you ever done a funeral and you thought, I don't even know where we're going to start with this. Where the hell are we going to get a helicopter and three confetti cannons? Well, we've had some quite unique funerals. We work with private charter jet companies that help us with transportation.

So if someone dies and they're rich and they die far away, they can get jetted home? Absolutely. And if need be, we provide transportation. Can you come home and spare airlines? Do they have a service too? I don't know Spirit, but we do do private aircraft. And there's also commercial aircraft as well. That's what I was going to say. I mean, look, the way I feel like leg room at that point is not going to be an issue. And so if you're going to just like go home in a box, you go home in a box.

What I'm saying is, honey, if you're listening and I peg it overseas, don't splash out. Keep the money and I'll come home, you know, coach. Or splash out and call me. You're working!

You're working! So what about the fact that socially, you know, the idea that you, I mean, you're a very gregarious, upbeat man. I don't know you well. We just met. But you seem like a very engaged and cheerful individual.

Best friends now. Yeah. So what is it like socially, particularly for a young man? Like, you know, at the time of your life when you're looking to maybe meet someone and get, you know, what's it like being in a party? You go, well, I'm studying, I'm in mortuary science. I can make you look great, but only if you're, you know, horizontal. Yeah. You know, it was, it really is, it's a conversation starter sometimes and it's a conversation ender.

I remember one time, a friend of mine, we were at a club. It was actually in Stanford, Connecticut, and we were having a great time. We met a couple people there, and as soon as this one woman, she found out that I was a funeral director, and that's where the conversation ended. Right. But I'm guessing at the same time, look, I can introduce you to some emo girls that would just go crazy for this stuff and be like, oh my God, he's so great. Are you a family man? You have kids? Yep. I'm married. I have three children.

So how'd you meet your wife? Through a friend. I had a great friend, Lewis. He invited me and her to a New Year's Eve party. I got there early, like I did today. I got there early. I drank a bottle of... See, here's the thing. I want to tell you something, by the way, about now that we're best friends. You're an undertaker. No one wants to see you early. You see what I'm saying? Like, be late,

man. The last possible minute. Alright, so you... So I get to this party early, and there was a bottle of homemade wine there, which was absolutely tasty. And I drank this entire bottle of wine. Okay. I fall asleep on a chaise lounge, and in walks my soon-to-be wife, Sandra, and turns to our friend Louis and says, Where's this guy you

want me to meet? And there I was sleeping on the couch. Now, at this point, you and me are still very similar. So what happens? I mean, obviously, you guys start going out together. Was she intrigued? Did she know the business at all? Well, she knew who I was.

I don't think she knew the business, but I guess she understood that I was a decent fella. And that was really what was important, really. It was important for me, too. Did you take her to look at the funeral home and stuff? I have this image in my head. I'll tell you where this comes from because it's not really from you. My wife, when she was very young, her best friend, when she was a little kid, their family were undertakers. So she, when she was a little kid, they used to sneak in and look at the dead bodies that were in the, you know, waiting. No way.

Yeah. And I think it made her who she is today. And that is? a very well rounded individual so was there because there's a kind of salacious forbidden oh my goodness what the heck

did that play into it? no not at all and you can tell through our conversation here. I will tap dance right along that edge with the conversation. Oh, of course. And I'll never pop to the other side, right? Yeah, that's interesting. You have practice in this.

I do. So, you know, 30 years in funeral service, you know, the only profession I've ever known, and I've had the opportunity to share so many important stories and have conversations with folks. And it's important that I feel comfortable about my profession so I can share it with you the right way. So for my friends, for my wife, for my children,

they've always been part of me and work. And so it contains less, do you think for your family, the idea of mortality contains less fear? I would say so. Yeah? Yeah, I would say so. But I think they also, I guess, appreciate life a little bit more. I like that. And I can't tell you how many times I've been in the car on the phone with a family, I'm driving and I know I'm going to have this conversation on the Bluetooth and I'm telling my children, be quiet. Daddy's on an important phone call. Or I'm in the house running from room to room because the kids are

crying and I just need to get to a quiet space so I can speak to a family. And those are things, not just that I do. Every funeral director goes through that, that has a family. Right. So they're speaking to someone who's just lost their loved one. And you need to afford them that opportunity. You need to be present for them. And you need to put your family on hold, you know, whether it's 15 minutes or an hour. It's fascinating because in our conversation, clearly what you are is a very empathetic, very sympathetic, very caring human being.

And yet the stereotype of an undertaker is more kind of like the Victorian vision of death, you know, the man in the black stovepipe hat with the, it is your time, sorry I'm here early. Well, you know, and I'm glad that you mentioned that. Well, in the UK, you have the funeral directors, they still wear the morning suit. They still do, yeah. So we still wear, we wear a

morning suit, but with a contemporary jacket, no tails, at Frankie Campbell. Our directors wear that suit. We still believe in some of the things that is done in the UK, like paging way. So if you ever see the funeral directors walks in front of the hearse, that's paging way. And we do that today.

So when we have a funeral and we're leaving from Frankie Campbell, we're coming on to Madison Avenue, you'll see that there is a funeral director walking first by himself. And then here comes the casket being shouldered by our casket bearers, and the family follows behind. And it's New York, so people are leaning on their horns. And guess what? We shut the street down. We shut the sidewalk down for everyone.

Good for you. And that's important, yeah. Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious tori spelling as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous sometimes chaotic life and marriage i don't think he knew how big it would be how big the life i was given and live is i think he he was like, oh yeah, things come and go. But with me, it never came and went. Is she Donna Martin or a down and out divorcee?

Is she living in Beverly Hills or a trailer park? In a town where the lines are blurred, Tori is finally going to clear the air in the podcast, Misspelling. When a woman has nothing to lose, she has everything to gain. I just filed for divorce. Whoa.

I said the words that I've said like in my head for like 16 years. Wild. Listen to Misspelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Angie Martinez. Check out my podcast where I talk to some of the biggest athletes, musicians wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Angie Martinez. Check out my podcast where I talk to some of the biggest athletes, musicians, actors in the world. We go beyond the headlines and the soundbites to have real conversations about real life, death, love,

and everything in between. This life right here, just finding myself, just relaxation, just not feeling stressed, just not feeling pressed. This is what I'm most proud of. I'm proud of Mary because I've been through hell and some horrible things. That feeling that I had of inadequacy is gone. You're going to die being you.

So you got to constantly work on who you are to make sure that the stars align correctly. Life ain't easy and it's getting harder and harder. So if you have a story to tell, if you've come through some trials, you need to share it because you're going to inspire someone. You're going to, you're going to give somebody the motivation to not give up, to not quit.

Listen to Angie Martinez IRL on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Get emotional with me, Radhi Devlukia, in my new podcast, A Really Good Cry. We're going to talk about and go through all the things that are sometimes difficult to process alone. We're going to go over how to regulate your emotions, diving deep into holistic personal development, and just building your mindset to have a happier, healthier life. We're going to be talking with some of my best friends.

I didn't know we were going to go there on this. People that I admire. When we say listen to your body, really tune in to what's going on. Authors of books that have changed my life. Now you're talking about sympathy, which is different than empathy, right? And basically have conversations that can help us get through this crazy thing we call life. I already believe in myself. I already see myself.

And so when people give me an opportunity, I'm just like, oh, great, you see me too. We'll laugh together. We'll cry together and find a way through all of our emotions. Never forget, it's okay to cry as long as you make it a really good one. Listen to A Really Good Cry with Radhi Dabluke on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When I was at my father's funeral, which is one of the saddest days of my life. And this was in Glasgow? Yeah, in Scotland. It was about, gosh, it was a while back now, maybe 17 years ago.

It's a while back now, maybe 17 years ago. So I was at my father's funeral. And when we left the church, we go to some other place. I can't remember. For services, I guess it would be the crematorium or something. There was a big area. And my father's casket was piped in by a bagpipe who was maybe the worst bagpiper I've ever heard in my life. And my brother and I are pallbearers, and I can feel him, you know,

as we're walking down with my dad on our shoulders, and I can feel him starting to laugh. He's, you know, we're caught up, but he's giggling, and I can feel his shoulder going. And then, of course, I started laughing. And we're walking in, and all the pallbearers, who all love this man in the casket, are just weeping with laughter and trying to hold it in.

And, of course, everybody else there knows what we're laughing at, and this piper is carrying around, murdering Amazing Grace, murdering it. It lent something to the experience. I'm pretty sure I heard my dad giggle a couple of times as well. Has there been moments where you thought, I can't contain my laughter. I'm going to have to excuse myself for something. It happens. And the family's laughing, right?

So there are times, whether it's at the funeral home, at the church, at the cemetery, where the family makes a joke. And you want to laugh along with them. And sometimes you try to fight it back funeral home, at the church, at the cemetery, where the family makes a joke. Right. And you want to laugh along with them. And sometimes you try to fight it back because you need to be professional. Right. And that happens. But along the way, we learn little things to even provide a little levity.

And so I'll share one with you. You know, at the cemetery, sometimes a family will turn to us and say, you know, please invite everyone back to 630 Madison Avenue. And I may turn around and say, everyone's invited back to 360 Madison Avenue, and the family will turn around and say, no, 630 Madison Avenue. I'll say, please don't go to 360.

They're not going to be ready for you. There'll be no food. So you got to know when to, you know, these little tips and tricks. You have to, the, the days of being this stoic funeral director, that's unapproachable with a, with a gray face, those days are gone. You know, families are changing, uh, communities are changing and we need to be responsive to that, you know, and to understand that this isn't about, you know, what it was. We need to be what's happening now.

And that's about the celebration of life. I mean, you talk about communities are changing and people, you know, America, particularly New York, you know, I mean, it's just wave after wave of new culture coming in and has always been that way. And so there are different ways of dealing with the dead in different cultures. Do you do non-Christian or Judeo-Burials? Do you do Muslim Burials? Do you do, I don't know, I can't think of other ones.

I mean, Shinto? I mean, what do you do? We serve every culture, every race. Do you have to bring in people? For example, if you're doing like a Japanese funeral, do you have to bring in people? For example, if you're doing a Japanese, do you have to bring in guys that you know can deal with that? Correct. If we're working with a Buddhist family, if we need to bring in a Buddhist

monk or whatever it may be, we identify all of the very best resources for every family. So you pull it together and you make it happen based on the faith of the families. Has there ever been a point where you've thought, you know, I don't think we can do this one? You know, like if someone says, you know,

if it's a Satanist or something, you go, uh... Well, we haven't got that far yet. Yeah. You know, I don't think society has crumbled that far. Oh, your faith is touching. You know, we have that type of service that's happening. But no matter what we do, we do have to base a service around the person. And so if it's religious, if it's a ritual, maybe the family is not religious at all.

But they want to create something that's memorable. Maybe it's around music. Music seems to play a huge part in it, right? You know, you wouldn't know this, but I grew up playing in a bagpipe band. No! I wish you'd have heard this guy. You'd have been outraged.

He would have been horrible, right? So my dad was 6'4". He looked like he came off of the doer's bottle. I'm familiar with the type, yeah. And so I play in a bagpipe band with my dad. And so if music is important and the bagpipes, you know, is one of those instruments, you know, it's either going to bring you to tears or it's going to make your blood boil and get out of my way if the bagpipes are playing and I need to get something done. It's a call, right?

But music is important, and whether that is live music, whether it's music that's being played in the funeral home, someone loved Elvis, they loved the Beatles, whatever it is, that is important. And you have to listen. I mentioned about being present. We were meeting with a family once, and there was a trumpet player, last name is Bhatti, and family mentioned how much they love to listen to this gentleman play trumpet. And I left the arrangement office ahead of the other director, and I went to our system, and I put this trumpet music on. And as she walked into the lobby, she looked over at me and she pointed and she says, you're special.

Oh, that's nice. But that's what we try to have, not just for me, but for everybody. I think you get a lot of joy out of this. I mean, this is what I find intriguing. It's not just the satisfaction of a job well done. There is a sense of uplift in what you do. Because are you frightened of death?

Wow. Now I am. Like, I'm frightened for death. I would be, I'd be scared to die now only because there's a lot that I... You have kids. I have kids. And there's a lot that I still want to do

and want to accomplish. But I think at some point in my lot that I still want to do and want to accomplish. Right. But I think at some point in my life, I think I would embrace it. I hope that if I get to this final hour where I can turn to my family and friends and say, I have lived a magnificent life and it's, you're going to be sad, but you know, I'm, I hope I'm right. You're going to sad, but, you know, and, and I want you to also to be happy about all the things that we have done together and the celebrations that we've had. And, and maybe listen, who agrees with everything that your family does? We've, we've had some arguments too, right? Yeah, of course.

But that is, I'm scared now, but I hope that I can find peace in the future where I can share this legacy and people can celebrate my life. So we discussed you very briefly. We discussed you. You're a Catholic, and that's your faith. And in the Catholic faith, as I understand it, which is reasonably well, I think, there is a continuation of consciousness after death. I personally have my doubts about that. What about you? It doesn't make you not a Catholic, by the way. To doubt is not to be. And you're right. And listen, through doubt, through question, that's how you reach these higher levels, whatever they be.

Faith without doubt is not faith. It's something else. I really believe that. If you don't have doubt, then how can you possibly have faith? It is an essential component. It's like the B in a BLT. You've got to have it or it's not what you say it is. I do believe that there is something after.

I do believe that we move into a different level. That's about that afterlife. You know, the consciousness. Does it happen? Is it seamless? Is it interrupted? Does it stop?

Is it in a different form? I don't know. I mean, who knows? There's a lot of people that say... Are you comfortable not knowing? Yeah. See that? I think that's a very evolved position. I could say I am comfortable without not knowing? Yeah. See that? I think that's a very evolved position to be in. I could say I am comfortable with not knowing.

You know, you don't need to know how the hot dog's made, right? Right. And I'm comfortable not knowing that. Right. I got it. I got it. What about, what frightens you now? What kind of a death?

I mean, I presume you haven't been around, or maybe you have, I don't know, the actual moment of death for many people. You usually, your work begins after that, right? I had, a couple years ago, I had, it was my brother-in-law, actually. You know, my hands were on him when he passed away. It was my sister-in-law, and it was very emotional. Yeah. were on him when he passed away. I was with my sister-in-law and it was very emotional. And I'm glad I was there for him. I'm glad I was there. Were you guys close? Yeah, I'd say we were close. And it's actually brought me closer to my sister-in-law

from that point. I think we have a much different relationship now. from that point. Of course. It's a much different relationship now. I don't know. I mean, it's interesting because I feel that, obviously, it has an emotional impact on you. And I hate to see anyone uncomfortable or upset. But the idea that someone you care about passing still upsets you,

I think is a huge testament to your humanity, given the fact the field in which you work. And I have made a complete 180 on what I think about, because I think I had a rather grisly fascination with what you do for a living. And just having spent some time in your company is very interesting because you demystify it a little bit. You don't take any of the pain away,

but you've demystified it a little bit. Is that how it is for you? I guess that is what I want it to be for you. Yeah, you're doing a great job. I want it to be for everyone, that I can and funeral directors can share what we do and we can be honest and let people into, you know, our circle and to help people, you know, come to grips or maybe they need to realize that funeral service is something that is very important in today's

society. You know, if we were sitting here years ago, we wouldn't have a plastic cup or a paper cup in front of us. It'd be, you know, a china or glass, right? Right. You know, today, everything is very disposable. We need to guard ourselves when it comes to funeral service from it being just about the disposition. We have to think about the service itself.

We need to celebrate that person's life. And you need to... That's one thing that Catholics really do well. I mean, you got to give them that. I mean, you guys go at it. There's like all sorts of prayers and ups and downs and joining ends and here and there and smoke going and lights flashing. I'm like, man. But the thing is, I have noticed if you go to a funeral and it's conducted, for me, if it's conducted with a pomp and theater, there is some kind of weird closure at the end of it. The grieving process is facilitated by that. I think I understand what you're saying. Yeah. You know, Craig, so if, you know, the way that I can kind of couch this for you is that, you know, there's always two people sitting in the back of the church.

Right. And the two people are either saying to each other, when I go, don't do this for me. I don't want any of this. All right. That means you're doing something wrong. Right. But if those two people are sitting in the back of the church or the funeral home and one buddy nudges them and says, you better do this for me. I want this right here.

Then you know you're doing something right. You're striking this chord, and you're saying to people, hey, listen, it's okay. You know, play ACDC, you know, at my funeral. Right. You know, I don't want to have, you know, a bunch of, I don't want to have a bunch of cut flowers. Bring in some trees for me. Nice. Do something.

Are you going to have the trees? Because I know you've got the smoke with the casket going out the door. Are you going to have the trees? You have a high Catholic mass, so we've got the priest there. Are we having the choir? I don't know if we'll have the choir. I think we've got to have the choir. Okay.

And we're definitely not having that bagpiper from Glasgow. You know, we're going to get a good piper from the FDNY. That's what you do. Yeah, get someone from New York where they can play the thing. To be fair, he was the only bad backpacker there in Scotland. So he definitely was not at the Edinburgh military tattoo. No, no, no, no, no. This guy, I don't know if he, I think it was his first day.

Oh, yeah. I'll tell you one thing I did see. You can tell me if you think this is wrong or not. I thought it was very bleak. So at a gas station in Scotland about, I don't know, a year ago or something, I was there and I was getting gas. And a hearse pulled in to get gas. Now, they need gas like every other vehicle, I get it.

Yeah. But there was a casket in it. And the guy gets out, the guy who was driving it, he goes out and he goes into the gas station. I don't know what he got, like gum or something. And then came back out and he gets in there. And he drives away with, I don't know if there was anyone in the casket,

but you got to figure there was. Well, you know, we always try to... When there's long-distance funerals or long-distance transportation... Oh, maybe it was that. Yeah, so, you know, there's... And you caught him probably at the one time, right? Right.

And it's limited, the amount of time that you have to bring a hearse into a gas station. Right. But usually it's during a long-distance transportation. You really have no choice. Right. And I have to believe that that's the reason why he did that. Well, you know what? I think that it's touching and good that you, I think it was probably just a Scottish

guy going, I need petrol. I need petrol. Ah, you've got your old, ah, never mind, old Macpherson Whitney man. It'll be fine. He was never out of this petrol station. There you go. Bill, it's been an absolute joy talking

to you. I wish you well. Thank you. I wish you success. Thank you. I wish you success. And I feel that your business is, is it really genuinely the only recession-proof business? Maybe one of them. I don't know if there's any other ones. Pizza, making pizza. Yeah, pizza.

Or maybe discount haircuts. Yeah. Because I figure if you get poorer, you still need a haircut. You still need a haircut. And you'll make a little more money and get a haircut. Maybe discount haircuts, Undertakers and pizza. It's a fascinating world that you inhabit.

And I'm really touched by our conversation. You're wonderful. Keep going. Thank you. Thanks, man. Great. Appreciate it. Cheers. keep going thank you thanks man great appreciate it cheers meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious

Tori Spelling as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life in marriage. I just filed for divorce. Whoa. I said the words that I've said like in my head for like 16 years. Wild. Listen to Miss Spelling on the iHeartRadio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts I'm Angie Martinez and on my podcast I like to talk to everyone from hall of fame athletes to iconic musicians about getting real on some of the complications and challenges of real life I had the best dad and I had the best memories and the greatest experience and that's all I want for my kids as

long as they can have that. Listen to Angie Martinez IRL on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Get emotional with me Radhi Devlukia in my new podcast A Really Good Cry. We're going to be talking with some of my best friends i didn't know we were gonna go there on this people that i admire when we say listen to your body really tune into what's going on authors of books that have changed my life now you're talking about sympathy which is different than empathy right never forget it's okay to cry as long as you make it a really good one listen to a really good cry with radhi devlukia on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts