Judge John Hodgman - A Donut of One's Own

Episode Date: April 14, 2021

Bailiff Jesse Thorn is out this week so Guest Bailiff (or new judge?) Josh Gondelman fills in! He and Judge Hodgman talk about shortcuts, donuts, fantasy realms, mad scientists, ice cream, and much more!Huge thanks to Josh for joining us! Make sure to check out his podcast Make My Day wherever you get podcasts. His delightful book of essays Nice Try: Stories of Best Intentions and Mixed Results wherever books are sold!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm guest bailiff Josh Gondelman, filling in for Jesse Thorne. We are in the chambers this week to clear the docket. Please welcome the one-man judicial branch here to settle disagreements with his official stance, John Hodgman. Well, it rhymes, Josh. I kind of Hamilton rhymed it in the middle. Oh, Lynn will be very happy to hear that. He's a listener to this show.

Hi, Lynn, if you're listening. If you're not, I don't blame you. There are a lot of podcasts. This is one of them. Josh Gondelman, you have a podcast, right? I sure do. It's called Make My Day. And it's a game show with one contestant each week.

So the contestant always wins. The contestant always wins. Very low stress. I've been a guest on that podcast. Josh, you've been a guest on this podcast. Yes. Just some episodes ago, you were on as a friend of the court to help clear the docket back when I was rollicking along up there in Maine. And you were in New York where you live.

I'm now back in New York. We're joined in Los Angeles by producer Jennifer Marmer. Hi, Jennifer. Hi. There we are. You know, we were chatting before we started the record, and it's always the worst thing to do because it's when the best, most exciting podcast material comes out before you hit record. As Josh pointed out, it was pure. It was not even podcast gold.

It was podcast doge. What's doge? Yeah. Well, you brought up, it was pure. It was not even podcast gold. It was podcast doge. What's doge? Yeah. Well, you brought up that it was crypto. More valuable than gold just by volume. I don't know how you measure mass or volume of cryptocurrency. No, no. It's all currency of the mind.

Is doge a cryptocurrency? It is. It's the one with a little corgi on it, I think. We're into Ethereum here at JJ Ho. Oh, okay. We have a recovered Ethereum miner among the listenership. Anyway, Josh Gondelman, you were a guest, a friend of the court, as I mentioned earlier. And I don't know that you know this, but we do a lot of research in the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Yeah. So every episode we do, after it comes in the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Yeah. So every episode we do, after it comes out, we ask people to do surveys. You know, when they're downloading it, we stick around for a 25 to 35 minute survey after listening to the podcast. And I would say we have about 99% compliance. Listeners definitely want to let us know how they feel. Yeah. And then they can fill out, you know, what did you think?

Describe in words, especially when we have what did you think, describe in words, especially when we have a guest bail, describe in words, guest bail. I'm going to tell you, I've got the results right here. And you scored off the charts, Josh. Wow. Very, very popular. I feel great about that.

Wait, okay. Off the charts in the good direction. In the great direction. Oh, good. With Josh Gondelman, the only direction is up, up, up. Interestingly. That was something that someone said, actually. Up, up, up.

Is he okay? Very energetic. Weird. Very energetic. Yeah. Almost unpleasantly so. Full of energy. Almost mysteriously so.

Okay. Seemed to grind his teeth a lot. I don't know what that's about. That's not true. No, that's just referring to a little private joke that Josh Gondelman and I have. He is not addicted to caffeine. You know, he's a straight, no, everyone said, extremely nice, very warm and engaging, made me feel great, nicer than the regular guy, should replace Judge John. Wow. Oh, this one says, Judge Josh gondelman is easier to say that's not true not true no it's hard enough to say judge john odgman to add

josh gondelman no unfamiliar unfamiliar name to most people more syllables that's not that's not just that's rude how dare you Just rude of them to say that. One of the greatest persons in comedy or any field. Nice pep talker on Twitter, writer and co-executive producer of the amazing Desus and Mero. Talk about names. Talk about, those are big names. Desus and Mero.

Great names. Big, big names. If you're not watching that show, you should watch the show. These, I mean, most, I mean I mean, incredible chemistry those two have. If you are watching the show, you're not off the hook. Keep watching it. This isn't a shift change. Stay watching it.

The show is off the hook. You're on the hook to watch it. Do they need someone to write taglines? Jesus and Mero? I think that sounds pretty cool. For the next season, it's going to be a poster of you, your face. Your face. It says Jesus and Mero.

And then it's like a quote implied in your voice that says the show is off the hook, but you're on the hook. Dot, dot, dot. To watch it. To watch it. That's right. With my face, especially because it is definitely a face that sells podcasts for free. Josh, thank you for joining us again to be our guest bailiff. Jesse's fine, everyone, but he's taking a week away.

Josh very nicely accepted our invitation to come in and guest bailiff. And we have a fair amount of chat. We have a fair amount of, not chat, justice to dispense. Do we not? Yeah, yeah. Lots of justice. Well, let's get into it. Here's a case from Kirsten.

Hello from Worcester. Oh, Josh, you are a fellow Commonwealthian of Massachusetts, correct? I certainly am by birth. I'm wearing currently a Ben Affleck Dunkin' Donuts painted shirt. The shirt is not painted, but it's based on a painting. Yeah. And so, yeah, a tremendous allegiance to Massachusetts. Where again are you from in Massachusetts?

Will you remind me? From Stoneham, Massachusetts. Stoneham, Massachusetts. So you will agree with me, Worcester is terrible. Well, look, I said that once on my podcast and immediately backtracked because the people of Worcester, I feel like they'll hold a grudge. Yeah, that's probably true. That's probably true. That's why when you take the shortcut from I-90 to 495 via 295 through Worcester when you're driving north to Maine, everyone speeds really fast and it's very scary because they don't want to.

No, Worcester's lovely You want to see someone mad you tell someone from Worcester you refer to Worcester as Western Massachusetts You want to see someone mad just go to Worcester. I think that's pretty much It's Massachusetts talk here on the Judge John Hodgson podcast

with Judge John Condleman You're the bester One of the great cities to know how to pronounce here on the judge john hodgson podcast with judge wuster you're the bester come on oh one of the great cities to know how to pronounce it does not spell correctly yeah the name holds secrets which is how it's pronounced uh famous for its uh famous for its uh polar soda it's shire sauce and uh everyone everyone knows it is mike berbiglia city massachusetts that's what it says on the sign on the way in mike berbiglia city

would not surprise me in the least uh in any case kirsten lives there with her husband and she sent this in go ahead i apologize hello from. Hello from Worcester, says Kirsten. I originally submitted this to you in 2019 for a live show at the Wilbur Theater. Having heard your desperate pleas for cases recently, I thought I'd dig this one out. There is a very busy intersection near our house and two possible shortcuts to avoid it. Shortcut A is shorter, but more heavily traveled. So the odds of getting stuck behind other drivers is higher. My husband, Chris, will always take shortcut B, which is slightly longer. He argues that getting stuck behind drivers is a risk he's unwilling to take. This has been a running argument for 20 years. Please rule on which shortcut is the shortest. Wow. Okay. So I needed

to evaluate these two routes. So I asked Kirsten to describe them to me. She sent me a map and labeled them. Shortcut A is blue on the map. This will be available on the Judge John Hodgman show page at MaximumFun.org and our Instagram account at Judge John Hodgman. And she said, shortcut A is blue on the map. It is 0.2 miles and took 51 seconds. is blue on the map, it is 0.2 miles and took 51 seconds. Shortcut B is yellow, it is 0.4 miles and took 70... I feel like this is an SAT question. I will point out you did this to yourself. I do everything to myself.

We could have just ruled on this on kind of the skeleton of the case, but you, a rigorous judge requested an evidentiary exhibit. Well, I love maps, but I didn't expect that I was going to have to settle a logic puzzle with a Worcester theme. And what we're doing now is the hard part is we're turning a map into out loud words,

which is not how they're meant to be. Right. So then I, then after she punished me with exactly what i asked for yep i decided to punish her and repunish myself by describing the map well by i i asked them would they be willing to get in their car and drive both shortcuts so that you and i josh could evaluate them so jennifer marmer Able producer Jennifer Marmer, would you please share your screen so that we can watch Shortcut A?

Absolutely. Oh, hi, George the dog. It's a real noisy day in my house right now. Life goes on, I'm glad to say. Yeah. So, okay, here's Shortcut A. Shortcut A. Okay. This is the first Shortcut A. Okay.

This is the first shortcut. This is shortcut A. This is the shorter shortcut. And so this is a very steep road. There's cars parked on either side. I don't know if you can tell. This is New England, so of course the road is covered in potholes and patches.

It's very steep hill. Oh good, and this is a good example too. Because there are two guys in front of us. Whoa, Jennifer Marmer, could you pause it for a second? First of all, I just, you know, I want this to last as long as possible. It's incredible for an audio medium. Second of all, I just wanted to acknowledge a knowing nod from Josh Gondelman when Kirsten pointed out that the roads are garbage in New England.

A lot of puddles. Third of all, I got a little, as a natural born rule follower, I got a little freaked out because I was pretty sure. I really hope it's not Kirsten driving this car and videoing at the same time. I also wonder that. I'm a little concerned that it is. Yeah. Josh, what do you think? Do you think she's videoing Anne?

I don't know. I hope. Let's say not. I bet she found a place to station the camera that's safe. Yeah. Which would be worse, her driving and videoing at the same time or the fact that she videoed in portrait mode? I know you got to put it in landscape, Kirsten. Kirsten, I'm just joshing you.

Oh, that could be a name of a podcast for you, Josh. That's like my Bojack Horseman sitcom name. That's right. He had a horse in a round. In this case, Josh is joshing and I'm judging, but I judge you well because I was, as a natural born rune follower, I was terrified just now.

I thought you were going to roll through that stop sign. I also did. I was very worried. Yeah, right. It was very, I mean, I didn't think this would be a suspenseful video. And then Kirsten came to what my driver's ed instructor would have called an STOP stop. What's an STOP stop? Is that Stanford something or is it just emphasize?

It is, you're supposed to be stopped long enough that you can go STOP and then keep going. Oh, it's sudden terminus of progress. It could be a gradual terminus of progress. It could be a gradual terminus of progress. No, you want to stop at a stop sign, everybody. Trust me. It does sound when I said it like an stop is like a cheer that cheerleaders would do for the opposing team. Oh, no, you're beating us too badly. Stop, stop, stop.

oh no you're beating us too badly stop stop stop is that now look you are the master of the pep talk on twitter is is and and cheerleading is full of pep i it's been a long time since i've been to a sporting event is there is there anti-cheerleading i don't think gloom leading like if you are rooting against the other team i feel like they usually take the tack of like instead of going like hey other team stop kicking our butts they usually take the tack of like, instead of going like, hey, other team, stop kicking our butts so hard. They would be like, hey, our team, maybe give it a little extra oomph. All right.

I think we invented another new thing, gloom leading. That's what the, you can't hear it. You can't hear it, but that is what the cheerleaders in the Smells Like Teen Spirit music video are chanting. Okay, Jennifer Marmer, play. Keep going. I can't wait to see what happens next. Sound quality is terrific.

Okay, here comes another stop sign. It just nails it. Fantastic. Oh, see, and they're gone. Oh, those cars in front of her disappeared. And so then occasionally here there'll be some cars backed up. And that's the end of shortcut one. That's the end of shortcut one.

And exactly per Kirsten's reckoning, that took 51 seconds. Now, Josh, I leave it up to you. You've seen Shortcut A, actually. She called it Shortcut A and Shortcut 1. That is the shortcut she prefers. Yes. Are you ready to watch Shortcut B? I am.

Or have you already come to a decision? No, not yet. I think it would be a dereliction of duty to rule after just seeing a single shortcut. Right. Okay. So let's roll. This is shortcut B. Shortcut B.

And oh, I have a note here that says the maniacal laughing is their teenage daughter in the backseat thinking that Kirsten and her husband are weird for doing this, and that I'm very happy to be a part of that. I think that answers the question of whether Kirsten is recording herself. I think that's true. It could have been different times. I don't know. That's true. It made me nervous. Let's roll on B and see what happens.

All right. Okay, we're approaching the signal from the same location. So this is the starting point. You'd go right there at the light for shortcut A. And now we're continuing on for shortcut B. This is shortcut B. Turning up this road. Started.

Look at those great... Look at those nice houses. Those nice sized houses on reasonable sized plots of land. Still pretty steep. Not quite as steep. The Worcester Charm. It is the Worcester Charm. The car is parked on the side. It is the Worcester Charm.

Pothole-ridden, leafless trees. Pretty nice houses. I'm sure they have leaves on their trees. Yeah, that would be so sad if the trees never had leaves on them. This is definitely a much more scenic tour of Worcester in that you're seeing a lot more of it. Ooh, look at that cabled beauty. A lovely home. And a Mike Birbiglia in every pot.

Occasionally the sun is right in your eye. A lot of curb appeal here in Worcester. This is the road. This is Salisbury Street, the same road that we turned onto. And so we're approaching the end point of shortcut A. And so where this car is coming out of right now, that's the end of shortcut A. So now this is the end point of the two shortcuts converged.

Thank you very much. All right. For those of you listening who couldn't see, how would you describe the experience of shortcut B? Josh? Obviously, so the listeners could tell it takes longer. It's windier would be the key word. I was starting to feel like I was in a little bit of an amusement park situation.

There were a lot of twists and turns. And I don't get carsick. But that made me a little nervous. However, as I mentioned, you got to see a lot more homes of Worcester. A lot of curb appeal. And the street did seem smoother. It seemed smoother, less, yeah, interesting. Yeah, fewer bumps.

Yeah. Well, I can tell you which one works better for podcast purposes, Kirsten, pretty clearly. The 51 second one. Which video works better for showing on the podcast the one that takes less time for the i mean it is it is literally the shortest cut yeah right but i guess kristin's husband's chris's argument for shortcut b is that sometimes shortcut a you get stuck behind some uh some pokey neighbors in their cars. Yeah.

It does seem like you're going to end up making a left turn from the stop sign into, you know, across a lane of traffic. So I can see that being tricky. Which one would you take, Josh Gondelman, personally? You know, I think personally I'd be a shortcut B guy because I like, I like the consistency. However, what do you mean you like? Because I like knowing that it's going to be that smooth, windy 71 second journey every time. Right. I think me, I'm not the, I'm not a rambling gambling type.

I think me, I'm not the, I'm not a rambling gambling type. So if you are kind of the, a wild gambler, uh, no one, when to hold them, no one, when to fold them, I would suggest shortcut a, because the upside is you save those 23 seconds. Right. Unless you get stuck behind a couple of slopes. Exactly. Yep. And then it's all over. You just, you just blew it.

Yeah. Right. Yep. And then it's all over. You just, you just blew it. Yeah. Right. Okay. Well, sorry. This is, this is very hard, Josh. This is a very hard one for me. I'm sorry. I got to say, it's because I don't want to go against, I'm looking at the map now is the thing. Yeah. And there is no question that shortcut a blue blue route, is much, much more direct. It's about 50% the length. Right. I mean, I don't want to triangulate exactly where these people live in Worcester. But shortcut A is just basically a straight shot along Sagamore Road.

And I like to say Sagamore because that was the name of our high school newspaper at Brookline, Massachusetts. because that was the name of our high school newspaper at Brookline, Massachusetts. Whereas you're going, you're whipping down Wakona Road, taking a hard left on Whitman Road, and then a right on Salisbury Street. These are all some pretty cool New England named streets. Yeah, very New England-y. I do love to hear the street names.

There's something counterintuitive about saying that the shortest cut is not actually the shortest cut. And it went shorter this time around, Kirsten. I mean, that speaks to your argument. But I guess I personally, I probably would take that Wakanda Road, Whitman Road ramble as well. Because I'm a rambling kind of guy. Not a gambler. Just a rambler. Are you a gambler or a rambler are you a gambler or a rambler i guess that's what it comes down to i don't buy into the rambler gambler binary

i don't like to split a decision so i have to say the shortest i mean unless we have a lot of data and you know, Judge John Hodgman is famous for its data. It's really just impossible to say because the shortest cut was the shortest cut. It was shorter than the other one. It's tough to for us to rule otherwise on what might happen. Right. Right. Right. So we have no predict. We have no statistical analysis. So this is what I would say. Kirsten, run this experiment 150 more times. Get me the data. You're under no, it's no rush. Just do it. Just do it 150 more times. Video it 150 more times. This is a 20-year-long argument. There's no rush.

But until then, even though Josh and I understand why Chris prefers shortcut B, the longer cut, I have to rule just on the side of science and the evidence that is given to me, shortcut A is the shorter cut. If that is what you're trying to look for, a shortcut. Shortcut B, it's a more leisurely drive. Shortcut A is the shorter cut. If that is what you're trying to look for, a shortcut. Shortcut B, it's a more leisurely drive. Shortcut A is the fast one. Both shorter than the long way around. Oh, forget the long one.

You're going to go all the way around the Harry Goddard house, whatever that is? No way. I don't want to get anywhere near that American antiquarian society that I see on this map. I have places to go. I have a life to live you think i'm going to spend as mary oliver would put it the poet the late poet uh my one wild and precious life driving around the harry goddard house i shan't no josh shan't nor shan't i shortcut a until i see that data from 150 trial runs of both of both of both routes. Don't split it up. It's not 75, 75, 300 total.

I want all video. And I want that to be a special podcast by the end of the year. There is a rush, actually. End of 2021. I just want to run audio of 150. So they're both roughly there about a minute each one. So that would be 300 minutes of driving in Worcester. There is kind of also a lovely, with 300 trips, a lovely ASMR quality if listeners are interested in that.

I think it would be incredible. I would listen to that in the car. Isn't that weird? You would layer it on top of your own car sounds. That's right. And kind of a Phil Spector production style. A wall of ground, they call it. Doesn't get better than Josh.

It doesn't get better than Josh Konderman when it comes to a Phil Spector pun. Doesn't get better. Just joshing with Josh. Let's move on. Here's something from Derek from Willimantic, Connecticut. My partner, three friends, and I stopped at Voodoo Donuts in Denver, Colorado, while road tripping across the US in college. The shop is known for its unique flavors, Captain Crunch, Oreo, bubble gum, et cetera. And we bought a dozen assorted, each a unique flavor, no doubles. This instigated a

fight that lasts to this day. My partner thought that each donut should be split evenly so everyone can have a taste of each kind. I appreciate the sentiment, but I think the best way to eat a donut is to eat the whole donut. If I wanted to eat bites of donuts, I'd buy Timbits. Timbits, I believe, are Canadian munchkins right yeah they're the tim hortons version of the the american the the donut hole generically speaking right duncan donuts owns the copyright to munchkins is that correct i believe so so you're a duncan donut partisan correct i am what do you think of these voodoo donuts i like a fancy donut but it's a different thing right like i wouldn't i wouldn't go there and just be like well uh i guess i'll just grab

one of these decadent oreo cookie donuts as like a companion for my morning coffee because then for lunch i would have a three-hour nap and also some of those, like, I don't think anyone wants to eat a whole bubble gum donut. No, it seems more like a, like you taste it and then you go, oh yeah, it does taste like a bubble gum. Yeah. Novelty, novelty donuts. Whereas a Dunkin' Donut is a work a day pastry. A blue collar donut and occasionally a blueberry donut. You eat a donut from time to time, right, Josh? I'll eat a donut from time to time. You go on a road trip back when such a thing was possible,

and you'll go on one again when it's possible again? Definitely. You're in a car with some friends, you stop and get some novelty donuts. You got 12 different wackadoo flavors. Such as mohair and mohair and mohair there's a mohair one and a cardigan one weirdly they split them up a double double mohair what are some of the other flavors i can't think of anything you get your mohair you get your

double mohair you get your cardigan uh you get your sycamore. I only got cardigan because you're wearing one, of course. I was about to say post-it note flavor because I'm looking at stuff on my desk. Just like how a character comes up with an alias in a 90s thriller. Oh, it's like how like eight or nine-year-old John Hodgman hanging around in my house with my oldest friend, Damon Graff. And Damon Graff was telling me all about his imaginary friend, Fred. And I said, well, I have an imaginary friend. And Damon said, yeah, what's his name? And I said, uh, Windowsill.

True story. Ooh, oh, from the Connecticut Windowsill family. Oh, Josh, too many tangents josh tmts you're in a road trip you get some novelty flavored donuts you're in the car your instinct josh your preference not what's right or what's wrong do you want a whole bubble gum donut you, I don't even throw you the bubble gum. Yeah. Give me one that a person might eat a whole donut of.

You want a whole maple glazed or a little taste of maple glazed Oreo and Captain Crunch and whatever. I'm a little taste guy. You're a little bites. Little bites, right? Yeah. Especially when it's an assortment of novelty donuts. If it was like everyone make an bites, right? Yeah. Especially when it's an assortment of novelty donuts. If it was like everyone make an order, right? And I was like, oh, I'd like a blueberry glazed donut, please.

And then someone goes, let's do little bites. It's like, that was not the deal. Right. Right. Yeah. No, well, the problem was they had not made a deal. They went in recklessly. They ordered an assorted dozen and then they just started driving.

I guess they were, you know, they didn't think about it. They didn't stop and think. Like Thelma and Louise themselves. Exactly. Exactly so. Oh, sad PS. We drove over a cliff. Weird.

I didn't see that part. I guess they're okay though. I did ask Derek how, because this did happen. And I was curious how they decided to resolve the situation in the moment. And he wrote back, after negotiating which donuts we could eat and which we wouldn't mind missing out on, two of us were able to have one whole donut each. The two who wanted a whole one each got their own. He had the Oreo donut. And it was delicious.

Of course it is. But he also wrote, interestingly, the women in the car wanted to split and the men all wanted to eat a whole donut. And since then we've seen similar trends when polling our friends. See, it's all about the data, Josh. It's all about the data. This is a data-driven, you're one of the leading podcasts in data-driven podcast metrics. We drill down the numbers. This podcast is the subject of the famous Michael Lewis book, Money Pod. Yeah.

So let's get some more data. Jennifer Marmer, according to Derek, there is a gender role breakdown between who wants to split a donut and who wants to hold donut. I guess due to male whole donut anxiety, they're afraid they can't have the whole thing. It'll make them less lesser somehow. But without Jennifer Marmer, what is your gut instinct? You want a whole donut in this situation? One whole novelty donut or parts of multiple novelty donuts? This is a tough one because if we um when we were working in the office during normal working in the office time

not often but a lot of times uh somebody would bring in donuts from a novelty donut place. They also have normal donuts that aren't novel. California Donuts in Koreatown. And they have just really great, fun donuts. They have like an Oreo donut that looks like a little panda. Love it. Sounds good. It is good. And in that situation, I would probably do a split, you know, like a little piece just because it's a lot.

I'm also, it's just a lot of donut. And I don't know if I want to, it's not even about the anxiety of splitting it or whatever. It's just too much donut for me. But, you know, if it was just a regular maple glaze, whole donut. And also if they're in the car, I wouldn't want to deal with splitting it. Because it feels like a hassle. Oh, so wait a minute. Now you're saying, if it's in the office of Maximum Fun.

Yeah. You want little donuts. If it's in the car, you want little donuts. If it's in the car, you want a whole donut. Yeah, because I don't want to deal with... Our numbers are all over the place. I know. It's not help. I'm not giving a helpful answer, but that's how I feel.

Well, look, we just blew the stats because I'm a little bit of donut guy. And I am arguably a guy. The arguments have been made that I'm male. So we've just reversed all of your data, Derek. I think that the obvious answer here is split them up. In this context, you should have split them up, Derek. Or if you wanted a donut of your own, a donut of one's own to enjoy, you order that separately. a donut of your own, a donut of one's own to enjoy.

You order that separately. You can't order family style and then stake a claim to a whole donut. I want all of that big platter of spaghetti and meatballs. Yeah. You can't do that. Right. Yeah. Because what your friends won't tell you, Derek, is you got that Oreo donut and you left a bubble gum sitting out there.

Everyone, of course, the Oreo donut and you left a bubble gum sitting out there. Everyone, of course, the Oreo donut was delicious. That's a delicious time-tested flavor in any sort of sweet treat capacity, but a bubble gum pastry? Like that's novelty for the sake of novelty and it's gross. And yeah, I understand why you want to eat a whole Oreo donut. Here's what your friends weren't telling you. They all did. But they all just sort of went along it's like derek wants the oreo fine let's just keep going we we have another we have another 900 miles to drive with this guy i'm sure you're very sweet derek no don't don't get me wrong but in this context you're in it you're on a road trip you're out to experience the world you're not ordering in from the the donut place

in koreatown a maximum fund headquarters that you can order in from any day you like you're not going to your regular donut place you're going to a place that you know i think there are other voodoo donuts in the world but it's like you're zooming through denver the mile high city let's get these wackadoo donuts let's just be wild let's get an assorted dozen and then you're driving on who knows when you're ever going to go back there again don't just eat the oreo sample life and let the oreo into other people's hearts and mouths yeah josh Josh, when we get to go on a road trip again, where are we going? And by we, I mean, we as humans. No, you and me. You pick a road trip for you and me. All right. I just, I was genuinely, it was a personal question that I turned into a weird, a weird personal request. Well, my first, my first road trip is just before I'm like my vaccines are fully engaged before thrusters engage on the full vaccines.

I'm going to rent a car and go visit my parents in Massachusetts. I haven't seen them since Christmas 2019. That's nice. So I'm very excited to see them. But that's a destination. Yes. And the correct choice. Thank thank you and i will go with you obviously that's what i was gonna say you will join me and my wife maris yeah to visit my parents

big they're big fans love maris love her podcast the maris review best name in podcast my parents would be very excited and surprised to see you i would be i'd be thrilled to meet them what are their names uh david and ellian would do. I'd be thrilled to meet them. What are their names? David and Elian. Do they like to be called by their first names or is it a Mr. and Mrs. Gondelman situation? I think at the age that we're at now as adults, I think that they're okay with that, with first names. I'm going to Mr. and Mrs. Gondelman them. I think they would appreciate that extra mile.

I still go mom and dad. Yeah, I wouldn't feel comfortable with that myself, but Mr. and Mrs. Gommelman. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was not a suggestion. Oh, I'm sorry. I misunderstood. If you want to. I'm going to trick them into thinking we're brothers. They are used to answering to mom and dad, so I'd put them at ease if you would call them that.

I'm going to call them Mr. and Mrs. Gommelman. And guess what's going to happen, Josh? You'll be charmed before i leave town i'll be dropping into a local stonem massachusetts mailbox a handwritten thank you note and they will love me more than you let's move on let's go to a break wait okay no not ready for a break i was just gonna ask they'll love you more than i love you or more than they love me they're gonna be like john hodgman is a sweet guy he's not as mean as everyone said he was he deserves to keep his podcast josh has his own podcast don't take over the judge john hodgman podcast

josh please he wrote us a handwritten thank you note it's a true it's a truly wonderful Josh has his own podcast. Don't take over the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Josh, please. He wrote us a handwritten thank you note. It's a truly wonderful gesture that not enough people do. Thanks for the inspiration, John Kimball. Now let's go to a break. We'll be back with more cases to clear from the docket on the Judge Josh Gondelman podcast. How come you wrote that? Jennifer Marmer is already updating the text, the template.

We got to give the people what they want. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join. And you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org

slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In. Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right? Yeah, from the restaurant Kraft. And did you know that most of the dishes at that very same restaurant are made with made-in pots and pans?

Really? What's an example? The braised short ribs, they're made-in, made-in. The Rohan duck, made-in, made-in. Riders of Rohan, duck! What about the Heritage Pork Shop? You got it. Made- of Rohan. Duck. What about the Heritage Pork Shop? You got it. Made in. Made in. Made in has been supplying top chefs and restaurants with high-end cookware for years.

They make the stuff that chefs need. Their carbon steel cookware is the best of cast iron, the best of stainless clad. It gets super hot. It's rugged enough for grills or an open flame. One of the most useful pans you can own. And like we said, good enough for real professional chefs, the best professional chefs. Oh, so I have to go all the way down to the restaurant district in restaurant town? Just buy it online. This is professional grade cookware that is available online directly to you, the consumer, at a very reasonable price. Yeah. If you want to take your cooking to the next level, remember what so many great dishes

on menus all around the world have in common. They're made in Made In. Save up to 25% this Memorial Day from the 18th until the 27th. Visit madeincookware.com. That's M-A-D-E-I-N Cookware.com. The Judge John Hodgman Podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning, the experience of learning, causes a sound to happen? Let's hear the sound. Yep, that's the sound of you learning a new language with Babbel. We're talking about quick 10-minute lessons crafted by over 200 language experts

that can help you start speaking a new language in as little as one, two, three weeks. Let's hear that sound. Babbel's tips and tools are approachable, accessible, rooted in real-life situations, and delivered with conversation-based teaching. So you're ready to practice what you've learned in the real world, and you get to hear this sound. It's not just like a game that pretends to teach you a language. It's also not a rigid, weird, hyper-academic chore. It is an actually

productive app that actually teaches you while you are actually having a nice time. And you get to hear this sound. Here's a special limited time deal for our listeners right now. Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners at babbel.com slash Hodgman. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. This week, we're clearing the docket. I'm your guest bailiff, Josh Gondelman. Here's a case from Lance in Twinsburg, Ohio. My partner Amy and I often have disputes about whether fantasy worlds in books and games take place on other planets.

I contend they do take place on other planets, especially if a map is included or the creators describe geographic features that do not exist on Earth. For example, the Yatil Mountains in Greyhawk from Dungeons and Dragons. I almost said Yaddle Mountains, but that sounds very Yiddish. More Yiddish than I imagine Dungeons and Dragons is. You gave it some good fantasy world sauce on it. Thank you. Amy says, it's just a fantasy world and it exists without any other needed context. I ask the court to rule that I may call fantasy worlds planets and that Amy does not roll her eyes when I do.

A case that tests the tension between fantasy and science fiction two genres often lumped together by their own choice for protection against the world they stand back to back and gently cower against one another did i ever tell you that i was a the the host of the of the nebula awards which is one of the top tier awards for fantasy and science fiction writing i don't think we've spoken about it but wasn't it in your book medallion status it was and then the medallion status i wrote about how we were all in this hotel in chic Chicago together and there was this huge like signing all of the science fiction and fantasy writers and me were signing books in one big ballroom and then down a short hallway in another big ballroom a local I think catholic school was having its prom

and during the signing I kind of had to take a break and I left this room full of older science fiction and fantasy writers just and just and just felt drawn towards the pumping base of this high school prom. And all these beautiful, you know, young people in their rented tuxedos and gowns. Some of them had come out to take that take a breather from all the dancing and all the incipient hugging and kissing that was going to happen. And they were just like full of life and energy. And just in their exhalation and their moment of rest, they had more energy than I'll ever have in the rest of my life. And every now and then a couple of them, one of them would catch my eye and they would see this withered, weird, half bearded old man sharing their universe for a moment.

And I felt like, oh, this is this is a science fiction book. They're looking through a portal to another dimension. And it's like, don't stare at the abyss too long or you will become that. I'm from the future. So, I mean, look look obviously science fiction deals more in planets but josh in your opinion you ever you read a lot of fantasy i used to when i was a kid i haven't so much what'd you rock i was doing just the real basics i i did some Narnia. I did, gosh, I found a book outside my home yesterday that I tweeted a picture of and because I thought it was funny. And I think I may have read it as a kid. It's

called Dealing with Dragons. And Beloved. That rings a bell. Yeah, it is. Let me find the name because it is, I tweeted it and then like immediately 30 people were like, that's my favorite book from when I was a kid. I read the whole series. My nephew is reading it right now and it makes me cry. It is by Patricia C. Reed. W-R-E-D-E. Yes. I think we have access to the same database here.

It's a data-based podcast. Enchanted Forest Chroniclesicles the first in the enchanted forest chronicles where does it take place princess simmerine is frustrated by her life and persuades the castle staff teacher magic magic cooking latin that's that's on earth i guess doesn't say what the name doesn't say what the name uh of the fantasy kingdom that she is yeah the realm doesn't say here. Do you remember if it was on earth or not? I don't know.

Okay. Well, those are some good touchstones, right? Because Narnia, is that another planet? Well, so they start on earth,

right? Of course they do. They start on, and then they go through the wardrobe, go through the wardrobe to the, to the realm of Narnia. Yeah. There's no part of Narnia that maps to the map of any part of Earth. Right.

But also we don't know that it's somewhere else. Yeah. Does that feel like another planet to you or another realm? Much more realm-like to me. Let's not even define what realm is. Yeah. Does not feel like travel to another planet. It does not feel like travel to another planet.

Now, Middle-Earth in Lord of the Rings, is that another planet or another realm? I always assumed it was an inaccessible realm that was part of the planet Earth. Our Earth. Why are you saying that just because it's ours no our earth pronouncing earth in a special way like oh i didn't put some that's how you say that's how you say it in cinder in i guess yeah i didn't all of a sudden be like, what, uh, how would ludicrous say it? Like at the end of a lyric, just like,

uh, yeah. Uh, the hobbits went around and they walked through. Well, close, but no pipe weed pipe, uh,

out of Hobbiton there, Josh, because it's earth. That's why it's called middle earth. Yeah. It's supposed to be earth a long, long, long,

long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, something like that. It's hard. That's why it's called Middle Earth. Yeah. It's supposed to be Earth a long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long time ago. Oh, it's middle of the time? Something like that.

It's hard. Like, you know, you look at the maps of Middle Earth, the global maps of Middle Earth, and they don't track to Earth. But this is supposedly in some prehistoric Pangea moment. I could be getting this wrong, but I'm fairly sure I got this right because I studied that Maps of Middle Earth book for a long time. I always pictured it as like you'd take an elevator down to the middle of the Earth's crust and it was hollow. You're talking about hollow Earth. Yeah. You're talking about the hollow Earth theory. The hobbit Earth theory is what I'm talking about. I don't have time for hollow earth right now

but that would be a plan that would be planet earth so here's what i have to say about this lance this i understand where your partner amy is coming from this fantasy is fantasy it is fantastic it is sort of beyond the mundane the literal worldly and instead it is a flight of fancy and i find myself i think the narnia thing was a real gut test for me because you know you tried lance to load the dice you tried to load the 20-sided dice on this one which is very noticeable on a 20-sided dice there's so many ways it could land and for it to be the same one every time 16 16, 16, 16, over and over and over again. Sure, you didn't go as high as loading it to be a critical hit, but sure.

16 every time, you're putting your thumb on the scale. Hey, it's all about data. If you know what the data's going to be every time, you have an advantage. But you name drop those Yatil Mountains in Greyhawk, is the the original setting of dungeons and dragons initially the castle of grayhawk then the city of grayhawk and then the world of grayhawk is how it's defined on the same database we were looking at together earlier josh but a different page the one of the one about grayhawk the the grayhawk wikipedia entry has some pretty amazing subheadings, including The Greyhawk Wars, Gygax Departs, Greyhawk Novels Continue Without Gord the Rogue. I mean, this is what I'm going to be reading when I wake up at two o'clock in the morning tonight.

Gygax Departs sounds so much like the title of like a fish song that they've never put on an album and when they play it live it's 50 to 90 minutes and everyone's like you've got to hear guy gags departs uh yeah no fish you get that i we have a lot of fish listeners get word hey fish listeners get word to my friend my personal friend mike, Mike Gordon, bassist from Phish. We got a name of a song for him and it's Gygax Departs. He'll know what it means. We've got to call. Gary Gygax was the creator of. Gary Gygax was the creator who, much like Steve Jobs, left his most well-known creation.

But unlike Steve Jobs, never came back. He departed. He departed. left his most well-known creation, but unlike Steve jobs, never came back. He departed. He departed. He departed. He departed on the, uh, on the gray boats to Elvin heaven or whatever.

It's all, it's all covered in the song lyrics. Yeah. Let's not bore the listeners. It's going to be a hot song. You know what? Hang on. Mike Gordon,

my friend, the basis from fish. Give me a minute. If there is a Judge John Hodgman listener who wants to write and perform Gygax Departs in the style of Phish, in your own style, in your own style, you can freestyle it. I would love to hear that song. you can freestyle it i would love to hear that song there is also subheading in here called setting setting in which the name of the planet on which the world of greyhawk is located is named and you know what the name of that planet is i'm gonna guess greyhawk o earth o-e-r-t-h wait the thing i said by accident earlier that's why i was so struck by what you said i couldn't i thought you were getting ahead of me you were in my mind i was way behind so yeah absolutely you know lance you're right that gray hawk is on a planet. And, you know, other fantasy novels take place in worlds that have clear planetary features. Like, I'm going to say that Westeros is on a planet that is not Earth because it doesn't share any of the geographical features of Earth. It does not track to any of the history of Earth.

It's a completely separate planet, probably in a different dimension, that happens to share most of the language and culture of medieval England. For reasons unknown. It's a fantasy. It defies logic. Have we been over this? That I hate when stuff has British accents just because it's old? That is a pet peeve of mine.

Give them Greek accents for once. Anything. Are you trying to come in here and poop on my favorite show, iClaudius? No. Ancient Rome, some of the best British actors of all time? It's not that they can never be British. It's just that sometimes they should be German. Or, you know, I just think a variety of accents.

In any case, fantasy worlds can be set on planets and identified as such for sure. But that does not mean that a fantasy world is necessarily a planet because it exists outside of rational description. That's the point of the fantasy. It is a world. It is a realm. It is a dimension. It is a... And who knows?

Maybe in this fantasy world, there aren't planets. You're just... Maybe the planets are flat. Maybe they're... I mean, it's like Asgard floating out in space, flat. Like the cover of a Yes record album.

A big feature feature big floating island in the in the in the cosmic slop or whatever it can be whatever it wants to be now lance's partner amy don't roll your eyes lance isn't wrong greyhawk's on a planet it's called our earth there's all kinds of precedent for this there's all kinds of science fiction and fantasy crossover, all kinds of fantasy stories that are actually taking place on other planets that are not Earth and are defined as planets. But it's okay for the Narnia to be in a symbolic realm of myth, which is not bound to a planetary scale. That's what I would say. Josh, do you disagree? No, I think this is a planetary scale. That's what I would say. Josh, do you disagree?

No, I think this is a great ruling. I think like it is helpful to have- It's nice to hear that from the new host of the podcast. Yeah, your last ruling was a terrific one. Your final ruling, I should say. Whoa, not even gonna let me finish this one out. We're flipping this. We're passing the baton mid-podcast. All right, here we go.

Next one. Josh, here's something from Faith from unknown location. No, I'm uncomfortable with this. No, no, no, no, no. No, look, I, look. You're going to make me smoke the whole podcast. Oh, you want to host the podcast? Host the whole thing.

No, not the whole, we're almost done that's true faith says i am an engineer for a medical device design consulting company as such a lot of what the details excuse me see this is hard to do i don't i'm not this is hard work you want to switch back yeah let's do it okay i'm an engineer for a medical device this is still faith from an unknown location right i'm an engineer for a medical device. This is still Faith from an unknown location. Right. I'm an engineer for a medical device design consulting company. As such, a lot of the details of my work are confidential due to client NDAs.

When I talk evasively about what I'm working on, it leads to some weird statements like customs wouldn't let me through with our prototype. And our device isn't making the building shake anymore, so that's nice. And I got stuck in the blood room again. Whoa. My friends Lo and Marion have taken to accusing me of being a spy due to these statements. I don't mind being given a more sinister job title, and naturally I play up the weirdness of my workplace for fun. However, I object to being labeled a spy when titles like mad scientist or henchperson to a supervillain fit so much better. Now, sometimes, Josh, Jennifer Marmer and I do a little polish on the letters to tighten them up because, you know, we're a professional podcast. Yeah.

You know, if we're going to play an audio only of someone driving and not talking, we're going to keep it to 75 seconds. Just out of courtesy to the listener. 51 to 75 seconds is the sweet spot. We all know right and as i was looking through this this morning jennifer marmer i saw this line i feel like i told them objects moved on their own in my house and they concluded i had a bigfoot infestation and i was and i was like i don't understand what that means i'm gonna cut it out because it's not clear but then i read it again and i'm cut it out because it's not clear. But then I read it

again and I'm like, it's still not clear, but it's beautiful. I think I understand what it means. Okay. What's your interpretation? Because this feels like, I would like to hear this lyric in Gygax Departs because it feels- Yeah. If you're writing Gygax Departs, you got to put this in there. It is a beautiful turn of phrase. I thought a beautifully written letter. But I think specifically what Faith is saying is that she gave a problem. She provided a set of evidence that leads to a specific kind of conclusion. And her friends have reached a different conclusion, like the wrong conclusion that is in a similar grouping. Right. She gave them, hey, there's a magical thing happening. Clearly ghost.

Right. And they've inferred instead Bigfoot. She gave them a poltergeist clue and they came back with a cryptozoology. Right. And so what she's saying is parallel. She's giving them all. Mr. Mr. Police, I've given you all the clues as the poster for that movie. The Snowman said, Mr. Police, you could have saved her. I gave her all the clues.

Wow. And she's all the clues for henchperson or mad scientist, mad scientist. And they have instead incorrectly drawn a direct line to spy right merely because she's being coy about where she works yes as opposed to what she is choosing to reveal about where she works which would definitely point to absolutely faith i'm not even going to make you a hench a hench person to a super villain forget it mad scientist all the way look you got stuck in the blood room happens all the time but you're not getting ordered into the blood room you're taking charge you're the mad scientist here you know what i mean you you buzzed your assistant and you're like hey can you reserve me the blood room from two to three you know you can do that online now you don't have to you can reserve the blood room online they have a whole yeah i know but

it's like i'm putting my finger down like i'm still talking on the intercom yeah i know uh it's just like i don't want to learn the whole new thing and it didn't work last time can you just do it can you just put it in blood room two to three okay you're the boss good role play by the way but faith you are the boss you're the mad scientist you are the super villain own it oh well you you do own it don't undermine yourself with uh with hench person and yeah mo and lorian no sorry low and marion cool both all of those all four of those are cool names but low and marion's is the are the two that you have.

If you'd like to acquire two more friends, I've got suggestions for their names. In any case, don't don't undersell Faith. Faith is a mad scientist, not not a not a spy. I have a thought on this. Please. So, Faith, you're right. Obviously, you're a person of science a person of logic both and i think you're right on the grounds of being factually correct however this is their bit you can't dictate the rules of their bit if it was hurtful to you you could say please don't do this bit at me but for you to be like you guys have a joke about

me i'm fine with you making the joke but i wish it were correct not the rules of bits in my opinion judge josh condleman comes in and reverses the decision i'm this is just we're this is dialogue i feel like i could i could come around to your side but i do feel like what she's doing she's um she's applying logic to the bit world. And I feel like there's no faster way to take the air out of a bit. Right. This isn't a planet.

This is a realm. You don't apply logic. This is a realm. You don't apply logic to bit world. It's not a planet. Fair enough. All right. Guess what?

You can't interfere with their bit, but Judge John Hodgman is going to come back and say, turnabout is fair play. Your new bit is their names are Moe and Larian. I would even go as far as to say your new bit can be being mad that they say spy and not supervillain, but you can't actually try to convince them because then it's not a bit anymore. I can't actually try to convince them because then it's not a bit anymore. Fair enough. Judge Josh. Judge.

It's not easy to say your name either. Judge Josh Gondelman. No, it's all the Judge Josh. All the Judge Josh. They're all hard to say, but Judge Josh Gondelman has spoken. Let's take another quick break. When we come back, an ice cream dispute and an ice cream recommendation on the Judge John Hodgman Podcast. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie,

Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience, one you have no choice but to embrace, because, yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls.

If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will.

Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah, we are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh, then you're on the go. Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Oh, more role switching.

Wow. Okay. You're the bailiff again. I feel like we've been doing this Beastie Boys style. We're just passing the mic. Yeah. I got you. Okay, very good.

I like it. Here's the case from Eric from the state of... Maryland. Eric says, my wife is a monster. She will eat the center of an ice cream carton, hogging all the mixings as that's where they always settle. I'm not looking for an injunction to stop her. If she doesn't stop on her own, she won't grow as a person and understand she's being selfish.

What I'm looking for is a ruling that I'm not violating our marriage vows to honor and cherish by calling her a monster for doing it. So first of all, calling people monsters, that's been a thing on Judge John Hodgman for a long time. Let me get a ruling from Judge Gondelman. Because you are a person of compassion and of empathy. Is it ever okay for a spouse to call their other spouse in a joshing manner a monster or no? I don't want to say never, but I don't think it's it's a good habit all right fair enough so be careful eric again it's contextual but that said is there a crime here so josh i had no idea what eric was Me either. The core of an ice cream carton, because all the mixings always settle in the middle of the ice cream carton.

I thought maybe they had some kind of neighbor who haphazardly threw together an ice cream with some mixings and didn't stir it well. Because unless, except outside of those occasional pints you get with like a core of chocolate in the middle. Right, literal like core of caramel or something like that. Yeah. I've never noticed that the mix-ins settle in the middle. Ice cream is not a colloid. It's not, there's nothing settling in there.

And I think that the ice, these are commercially, I believe they get these from the Wegmans family of stores, their ice creams. And I think that, I think that high, high quality ice cream companies want to have an even dispersal of stuff inside. Jennifer Marmer, you ever, you ever noticed that the, the ingredients, the chunky ingredients of a, of an ice cream settle in the middle of the carton? I've never experienced that. That's very interesting. So I asked Eric to provide some evidence that this was actually happening. And he sent me two photos, which you, well, yeah, I guess we're going to put these on the show page at MaximumFun.org and as well as the Instagram at JudgeJohnHodgman on Instagram.

show page and maximum fund.org and as well as the instagram at judge john hodgman on instagram because i mean just you know maybe a content warning because this first one this first this first one is i guess white chocolate raspberry from wegmans and the way his wife is scooped in the middle looks a little bit like a wound it's a little bit it's a little graphic it's a little it's a little bit scary looking and he's and he wrote, we purchased the Wegman store brand. This is white chocolate raspberry. I've also included one, maple walnut, showing how I scoop the ice cream. And that's the second photo, which you can see that the scooping is much more even. He's saying a clean.

Almost too even. It's saying a clean. Almost too even. It's unsettling in a different way. It looks like the topography of a fantasy land. It has peaks and valleys. You could probably find a settlement of elves and halflings in there. Wegmarnia. All right. That's it.

I'm going home. Enjoy your new job, Josh. Jennifer Marmer, you don't mind working for Josh, right? He's a wonderful guy. Not at all. He's the best. Yeah. Wegmarnia.

Whether it's a planet or a plane floating in an ultra-dimension in space, there is definitely a fairly flat topography here yeah that suggests that he's taking it off fairly evenly but neither of these photos i have to say eric proves your initial claim that the the mixings as you call them settle in the middle i mean what you would need to do well no i mean because if you look at the white chocolate raspberry this is his wife is digging into the the ice cream right in the center she's creating a hole a mine as it were you know a traditional coal mine you dig into the earth as opposed to just taking off the top of a mountain like they do in west virginia to get coal and or build airports.

Have you ever flown into Charleston, West Virginia or out? No. Gosh. It's the, you know, the terrain is so mountainous and rocky that they had to cut off the top of a mountain to put the airport on top. You drive up and around. It looks like an evil villain's lair. around him it looks like an evil villain's lair because you drive around to the mountain slowly inclining to get up to this top of the mountain that's been cut off and they just have an air airport up there and the runway doesn't have to be very long because you're already you

zip right off into the air there's already air underneath you yeah it's it's scary stuff i like that i'm i'm I performed in Charleston with Justin and Sidney McElroy and that was a lot of fun. But in any case, she's digging deep into the core, leaving the rest of the surface untouched. We don't see what's underneath

the untouched surface there. Agreed. That's true. We're going to need more data. We're going to need more data. We're going to need more data. I need, all right, Eric, and I need you guys to each eat 150 containers. Most delicious ruling. 150 containers and take, well, maybe not 150 containers. I want you to live.

75 and 75. 75 and 75. Yeah. 75 containers each of white chocolate raspberries. 75 containers of maple walnut. This is all a red herring, which is one of my favorite flavors of voodoo donut. This, I think, is all a red herring because, really, he doesn't want remediation of this or amelioration of this scooping problem. What he wants is the permission to call his wife a monster for her scooping style, which I feel we should not grant regardless.

Yeah. I mean, even if you were just coming to the podcast, Eric, saying that I don't like that my wife scoops in the middle of the ice cream because it bothers me aesthetically and i would prefer that she's that she do a strip mining operation the way i do on my maple walnut that still would not be evidence of monstrosity you need to go a little bit farther even if she was doing it out of spite unless you have some kind of perhaps an obsessive compulsive disorder not to be glib where that would be uh off-putting to you if it's just a neurotypical issue of ice cream preference no thank you yeah that said eric i can appreciate why you would like your wife to be literally more even-handed in our ice cream scooping. Because if you dig down into that core deeper without widening it,

it's going to get dangerous. You're going to be definitely scuffing your knuckles on that ice cream as you dig in there. There's no reason for that. It doesn't look good. I'm almost thinking about not posting the photo because it looks so unnerving. Tattling but for sure yeah so you know i i'm willing to order that eric's wife scoop a little bit more evenly but i don't think i don't think she deserves monster for this one all right josh we got a letter uh from maya uh who had a related ice creamy recommendation

a few weeks ago uh jesse thorn and I were talking about putting salt on vanilla ice cream, which I had never thought of, which is great because ice cream is the only, I love, I don't care for sweets, but I do love salty and fatty things. And I never thought ice cream is right on the tolerable edge of sweetness for me because it is so creamy and rich. I like that. But if I could add salt to it, forget it. I'm just going to eat that for the rest of my life.

So Maya says, My husband's and my favorite ice cream combination is vanilla ice cream with flaky salt, fresh figs, and fruity olive oil. We got the idea years ago from Savur magazine, and it has become a mainstay. If figs are out of season, we sometimes use fig jam. And a flaky smoked salt is even better. That is Maya's recommendation, and I do not care for smoked salt. But it seems like a fun thing to try otherwise.

And I bet if you like smoked salt, I bet it'd be delicious. Josh, do you do any weird modifications with your ice cream? No, I'm pretty meat and potatoes with my ice cream. Meat and potatoes is my other favorite flavor of voodoo donut. Go on. i love it um i but i i i'll get the like fancy boutique pints of ice cream and eat them slowly over the week that's what i eat them slowly over the week slowly taking off top layer after top layer i never mining the core. Because it is mine and mine alone, my wife and I do not share ice cream often, then I take a few liberties.

If I see a big chunk of something I want, I take it out and put it in my bowl with no compunction. You know what, Josh? And listeners of the world, however you enjoy ice cream is the way you enjoy ice cream. And you should revel in it. Just get what you want. You deserve to get what you want in life. Obviously, there are times when we have to share. There are times when we should share.

There are times we have no choice but to share. But there are also certain gifts that we have to give ourselves from time to time too. Your own ice cream, the way you want it, that's a good thing. I think you deserve it. Josh, you did a good job. You deserve ice cream. Thank you. Jennifer Marmer, you did a good job.

You deserve ice cream. Thank you. Don't give any to your baby. No problem. I won't. That's a mean thing to say. He doesn't know it's good yet. Yes.

I have a friend whose parents told her that yogurt was ice cream until she was like seven and figured it out. Parents, don't lie to your children. Don't tell them that yogurt is ice cream. And you know how I feel about Santa Claus. The docket is clear. That's the end of episode one of Judge Josh Gondelman. Our producer is Jennifer Marmer. Thank you, Josh, for joining me today. Josh, where can people find you on social media? I am on Instagram and Twitter at Josh Gondelman, G-O-N-D-E-L, man.

You got Josh Gondelman for both your Instagram and Twitter handle? Yeah. I spent tens of thousands of dollars buying off another Josh Gondelman for both your Instagram and Twitter handle? Yeah. I spent tens of thousands of dollars buying off another Josh Gondelman. That would make me so sad if you did that. Follow us on Twitter. I'm at Hodgman. But on Instagram, I'm John Hodgman because Hodgman was taken and that person has not updated it in 10 years. Whoever that is. As a show, we are on Instagram at Judge John Hodgman.

Please follow us, like us, bookmark us, send your stories, comment more than four words, get us into that algorithm. Make sure to hashtag your Judge John Hodgman social media, hashtag JJHO, and check out the Maximum Fund subreddit. If you'd like to discuss this episode, I'll be jumping into the subreddit a little bit more these days. Submit your cases at MaximumFund.org slash JJHO or email me, Hodgman, at MaximumFund.org. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge Josh John Hodgman podcast. The perfect name for a podcast.

Surprise post-credit sequence that's right the judge john hodgman expanded universes back on with the extra content that no one requested until i started doing it and now it's expected the other week i asked you to write in to tell me when was the age that you never ate a tomato until or if you had never ate a tomato at all. I don't know why I did this. I get enough mail but it was very nice to hear from you all and I am very glad to share with you now the roll call of the tomato never eaters. These are the people who wrote in to say that they have never ate a tomato until later of life or even until this very day they've never had one even now so let's go patrick b age 36 never at quote not even a piece bethany p of edinburgh never at any tomato till age 19 when bethany p had their first slice of pizza they waited so long because of childhood dairy aversion

and maybe because of Edinburgh. I don't know if there's pizza there. If it's even pizza. Greg Z., age unknown, whose dislike of tomatoes betrays his own family legacy. His grandfather was a tomato farmer. Benjamin K., age 51, never et. Repulsed when family members in Georgia

make a tomato and mayonnaise sandwich. One of my favorites. But guess what? Benjamin K. holds his tongue because people like what they like. Chuck Bryant, famous podcaster of Georgia. Never Et. A slice of tomato. Adam M., age 42. Never Et. One. Also Never Et. Pickles, cucumbers, cherries, plums, mangoes, strawberries, watermelon, and bananas, fresh or unfresh. Keeping it picky, Adam M. Alan C., age 53, never et, and says he is at the age when he can be stubborn. Ty B., age 41, has never swallowed a tomato. Quote, he's never swallowed a tomato. Weird loophole, Ty, I don't know what you're doing. Kim G., age 35, never at one, in part because

Kim G. lives with autism and finds many tastes and textures overwhelming. Kim asked Judge John Hodgman, that's me, to stop sneering at people with texture issues on the podcast. I didn't realize I did that, Kim. I apologize. I won't do it again. Robin F., age 39, never at one, reports that even, quote, tomato sludge on a sandwich where a tomato's been removed is disgusting and Robin In gives it to their wife to eat. Kayla O, age unknown, never ate one. Kayla has also never ate a sandwich or a burrito. In their life, never ate a sandwich. They're working on it. Tom Hale never ate a hamburger till age 26 and then never again till age 37. Doesn't like hamburgers. In both cases, no tomato. Andrew C., you are not the

unicorn you claimed to be in your email. Lots of people apparently have never ate tomatoes. You're one of them at age 39. Never ate one. James E., age 54, never ate a tomato, nor never ate an onion. Lex F., age 40, never ate one, and also never drunk coffee till this year. Robert E., age 44, never ate a tomato, but he said, if I read his letter out loud, he will ate one. Okay, do it, Robert E., go ate one. Andrew G., age 29, never ate one. Always thought they were alone in the world obviously not true jm's son age 10 never at a tomato but that's perfectly reasonable he's a he's a he's a child it's perfectly fine there's still time to add a tomato lucas o age 34 never at a tomato allergic to all nightshades including tomato eggplant pepper potatoes tobacco. I didn't know a potato was a nightshade.

Lori T., age late 30s, never ate a tomato. Lori T.'s dad used to say that eating tomatoes and all veggies would, quote, put hair on their chest. This made Lori feel that they would never become, quote, a proper woman and was especially distressing to Lori because they never felt sufficiently girly when they were young. And only in the last few years has Lori realized that they are non-binary. So there you go, dads, go easy on jokes. Jokes, jokes are not always great. Karen J., age 36, never ate one and is

sickened by all fruits, though they have tried a fresh banana. Thomas R., age 54, never ate one, also loves beans but hates lentils, and once in the army ate only plain bread for three days straight. And finally, J. Michael S, age 39, never ate a tomato. J. Michael also reports, quote, I grew up in Quincy, Massachusetts where I did children's theater with the Doughboys' Mike Mitchell. If you and Jesse ever want to see video of Mitch playing LeFou in Beauty and the Beast at age 12, I'm your guy. Yes, J. Michael S., you are my guy. Get me that tape so that we can play it someday

in another secret post-credit sequence. Meanwhile, if you have never had a tomato, now you know you are not alone. Therefore, you do not need to write me any more about it. But I love you. Talk to you next time on the Judge Ten Hagion podcast.