Judge John Hodgman - A Nothingburger Sort of Thing to Do

Episode Date: September 10, 2015

Judge Hodgman and Guest Bailiff Jean Grae take on the proper way to do the YMCA dance, marriage proposals, and more.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm your guest, bailiff Jean Gray, in for Jesse Thorne. This week, we're clearing out the docket. May I read you our first letter, Judge Hodgman? No, because I want to say hi to my friend Jean Gray. Hi, Jean Gray. How are you? I'm doing well. I'm very sweaty yeah so here we are we are recording this

at the we are post labor day so i have taken off my white patent leather shoes and my white patent leather pants and my white patent leather rash guard which was was my uniform of the summer. And now I'm wearing... It seems like a lot. I'm now wearing my tweed pajamas in anticipation of autumn. What did you do today on this hot day? I took a nap at about six o'clock in the morning before I went to get my passport, which is always a great, great fun. If you've ever been to the passport office, it's a good time.

I have been. I go once a year. That's where I summer, actually. I summer at the passport office. At the passport office. Yeah, well, it's air-conditioned. 490 Hudson? Yeah, that's the one.

Well, it's air-conditioned. 490 Hudson? Yeah, that's the one. Right across the street from the building that houses Dutton, the publisher of my books, The Areas of My Expertise, More Information Than You Require, and That Is All by John Hodgman. That's called a plug, Jean. Now, let me ask you a question.

Do you have anything to plug before we even begin? You know, you can always get some music at jeangrey.bandcamp.com. There's so much to choose from. There's even a book and an audio book on there. I'm taking a break from recording for the summer so I can continue with my live talk show called The Show Show and also work on the next project, which is a live play, I guess, of sorts, which is, we're doing Goonies 2, so doing a lot of work on that. Oh, you're staging a sequel to Goonies?

Yes. Who will you play? Corey Feldman? I wanted to. Yeah. Corey Feldman? I wanted to. Yeah.

And then I actually watched Celebrity Wife Swap. I don't know if that's a... Am I... Nobody should really watch that. Do you know something, Jean Grey? Do you know at the height of my minor television celebrity, this would never happen today, but at the height of my minor television celebrity, this would never happen today, but at the height of my minor television celebrity-dom, I was approached about being on that show.

Really? And swapping my actual wife for someone else's wife. Did they tell you up front who it would be? Or is that, because I feel like it's not a surprise. I don't, I think I would recall. Or did you not get that far? No. I barely opened the letter before I heard my wife screaming, no way.

And I don't want to swap my wife. I love my wife. No, it sounds terrible. And when you think about it, it's's like if they're asking me do you know what i mean if i'm the quote-unquote celebrity i don't want to belong to that wife swapping club that would have me as a member because who who are the other people they're asking like if at my level, it could be, I don't even know, I couldn't even guess what reality show creep or, you know what I mean? That was not an even minutely interesting proposition to me. I can see you being uncomfortable.

I think you're downplaying your celebrity, but I can see it being an uncomfortable thing to do. And this particular episode was Corey Feldman and Tommy Davidson. Oh, really? Yeah. Kind of sounds a little bit like they pick people by just, you know. I think they have. I don't know. I think they.

Just throwing marbles on a floor yeah it sounds like that but basically they just ask everyone and only the saddest people say yes no comment on the lives of cory felbin or tommy davidson i mean you know cory felbin i think has been advertising his sadness uh with his position in life and vis-a-vis his former child stardom and where he is now for a long time. I think that that's true. But Tommy Davison, oh, he's a good dude, right? I mean... Yeah, yeah.

No, great, great, great dude. And especially in juxtaposition to Corey Feldman. Yeah. But I bet you I would have gotten... I bet you I would have gotten Corey Feldman's wife. I bet that's... Do you know when they filmed it? I bet you that was have gotten Corey Feldman's wife. I bet that's... Do you know when they filmed it? I bet you that was the one I was in for.

Now I'm regretting it. I don't think you should ever regret that. But Jean Grey, for the people who don't know, is a rapper, a musician, an author, a talk show host, an actor, a polymath of all things awesome. So she has the show show, which is her live talk show at Union Hall here in Brooklyn. But the next big thing is the Goonies 2, which will be staged in New York City, correct? Yes.

On what date? September 24th at Union Hall. Union Hall in Park Slope one of the one of my very favorite places to perform and you guys should all go and see it if you live in the area and if you don't live in the area check out gene at gene gray that's j-e-a-n-g-r-a-e.bandcamp.com is that a fair place to go to get all the things, Jean? That is incredibly fair. All right. Well, you know, it is the object of this podcast, to be fair.

It's the object, and as with all objections, overruled. Let's go to the first case. Yes. May I now read you our first letter, Judge Hodgman? You may now read the letter bong this is a new thing I just made up Dan writes

my girlfriend and I recently attended a sporting event during which the stadium played the song YMCA by the Village People we found that our C's during the song oriented in different directions I say the opening of the C should be directed towards the dancers left so that those observing We found that our C's during the song oriented in different directions. I say the opening of the C should be directed towards the dancer's left,

so that those observing the dancer from the front recognize it as the letter C. This is the way the village people performed it. My girlfriend claims that the C should open to the dancer's right, since this seems like a proper letter C according to that dancer's point of view. We need a ruling since we are young and attend many weddings. Knowing that white people love dances that include instructions, we're bound to have an awkward experience when the YMCA is played. Well, before I weigh in, Jean, what do you think?

Yeah, so I feel like there is a very clear answer to this. Unless you are just home by yourself performing YMCA to yourself. Dancing as though no one is watching. Yes, as though no one is watching. The clear point of the song is to dance as if everyone is watching because they are. So the opening of the sea should be directed to the dancers left because it's performed for people to look to look at. It's kind of like if you got a tattoo and it was just written for you to read, which is one thing. Yeah.

But I'm pretty sure that you did not do that. You don't get the tattoo on the inside of your skin. No. Get it on the outside of your skin. No. Ladies and gentlemen of the podcast, Jean Grey is absolutely correct. The village people did not dress up as a,

I'm doing this from memory. Now construction worker, native American motorcycle, man, policeman. I'm missing one astronaut. Ooh, fire,

firefighter, fire construction. It seems so. It seems right. All right. Now I got to see which one I missed. You keep thinking. Scientist. Throw out some more occupations while I check.

Veterinarian, which would be very. Dentist. Dentist would be good. Very sexy. So many people are yelling at the podcast right now. Do you know what it is? No. You're going to kick yourself, Jean.

Soldier. podcast right now do you do you know what it is no you're gonna you're gonna kick yourself gene soldier so oh really yeah dude in green fatigues or sometimes a navy outfit for singing in the navy in the navy yeah right that would make sense i think he was the lead singer uh yeah uh randy jones glenn hughes felipe rose victor willis was the uh uh no he was the police officer david hodo was a construction worker and alex briley was the soldier so there you go sorry alex now these nice young men from Greenwich Village, New York City, did not dress up at these things so they would not be looked at. They dressed up with these things so they would be looked at. These village people did not bring gay disco culture out of lower Manhattan in the 1970s to the world and give that gift to the world so that your narcissist girlfriend could screw up their dance no i don't know about you jean gray i love the village people because i remember i remember watching the village people on solid gold when i was at my my grand my grandparents' house in Philadelphia, and everyone in that room loved the village people. And they were not necessarily,

and I say this with great affection, for my family, who lived in a working-class neighborhood of Philadelphia, and at that time in the world, they probably would have different ideas about how they felt about gay people, right? Yes, I understand. They dressed up as masculine cultural icons as a part of a profound art project that got all of mainstream America singing along to how you could pick up men at the Y. And then they went on the love boat.

And that's amazing, right? Oh, you know, yeah, it was amazing that, you know, it could culturally go that mainstream in people's faces. And, you know, I grew up in Chelsea. I went to school in Greenwich Village and lived directly across the street from a YMCA. And I had no idea pretty much, you know, the stories of YMCA. I, you know, did gymnastic summer camp there. And then I was like, oh, later on in life, I was like, oh, it's the one. Oh, I see. I see. I see.

And I wouldn't have seen had they been doing the C for themselves. Yeah. So, you know what? This is an important piece of American popular cultural heritage. And I order Dan's girlfriend to stop messing it up with extreme prejudice. Ugh. Ugh. Next. Especially if you're dancing

at a heterosexual wedding. Like, respect. Show some respect. Yeah. You know what I mean? And for that, and for the electric slide, you don't go the other way.

You know, you gotta get it together. Now, I will say this about my family in in Philadelphia they could then and still can electric slide like nobody's business that is what's up that is what's up and kudos we're gonna go on to the next letter oh should I make a song, a sound? Yes. That's my gong of judgment. Aaliyah, I believe, writes, I file suit against my boyfriend of three years, Jason.

He knows that I love Harry Potter. Through all the times we've experienced the Harry Potter world in different media, in movies, games, comedy sketches, he's expressed enthusiasm for the story and the world. Let me stop you right there. However. Jean Grey, let me stop you right there. Did she say comedy sketches?

She did say comedy sketches. As very popular, I just went to a, at least, I think it was a run of 20 UCB East, just Harry Potter comedy sketches. That didn't happen. No. Oh, okay. I thought you were serious and I was about to say, no, thank you. All right. Read on.

However, he will not read the books. This will be fine. No, I know. But he continues to ask me questions about characters or scenes when we're watching a movie or playing a game based on Harry Potter. He has also expressed great interest in visiting the wizarding world of Harry Potter because of his affinity for theme parks and his interest in the Harry Potter world. Judge Hodgman, will you issue an injunction that he cannot visit the theme park until he has read one of the books from the series, which I will provide him?

He is still welcome to ask questions about the series, but he should no longer be allowed to make glib remarks about the character motivations and plot until the above condition is fulfilled. Yes, Bailiff Jean Grey. Before you hear my decision, what do you think? Yes, bailiff Jean Grey, before you hear my decision, what do you think? Yeah, I feel like that's fair. I also kind of feel like maybe Jason could be that kind of person who watches along with a movie and kind of just asks what's going on for the entire movie, even if you guys are both seeing it for the first time. He might be that kind of person. But, yeah, you know, if you're going to express interest, don't express famed interest. Just get involved a little bit so that you don't have to annoy your girlfriend. Jean Grey, you are partially correct.

I see. Only insofar as you don't go far enough. Not only will I issue an injunction that he cannot visit the theme park until he has read one of the books from the Harry Potter series, but also... Aaliyah, I think you should break up with this creep. To be fair, it hadn't occurred to me until you mentioned it, Jean, To be fair, it hadn't occurred to me until you mentioned it, Gene, that it may not simply be that he's an illiterate know-nothing who refuses to read a book, right? It may also be that he's just an annoying person who asks a lot of questions during the movies, no matter what, whether he read the books or not.

But we're never going to know unless he reads this book and the fact you know a premise of this podcast is people like what they like and you can't force people to like something that that you like such as reading do you know yes but you can that is very true you can make a reasonable demand if something is really important to you and the person wants to share your life and this guy obviously does jason and wants to share your life in a very specific way which is in harry potter fandom it is reasonable to say you should read at least one of the books and let me tell you something reading reading harry potter is one of the easiest things in the world to do. Yeah.

Right? It's not hard. It's not a hard read, Jason. Not a hard read. If you can't just do it and read one of the easiest reading books in the world, then I don't know what to say about you. John Waters said very famously, and I'm reminding myself that this is a family podcast. I know which quote you're about to use, and I have that T-shirt. If you go home with somebody and they don't have books, don't hug and kiss them.

That's not exactly what he said in the last part, but you know what I mean, parents. that's not exactly what he said in the last part but you know what i mean parents and and some only children who are precocious who like me read john waters's book when you were 11 years old and learned a lot about the world very quickly perhaps jason can't read well you know i get that some people just don't like reading books, but for the sake, if Jason can't pull off the simple stunt of reading a Harry Potter book, which is basically like going down a water slide, which I bet you he would love to do. Loves theme parks. Yeah. Then maybe you guys need to rethink your relationship. So I hope I've shamed you enough jason into agreeing now

what i will say is i don't think you should necessarily read harry potter and the sorcerer's stone also known as harry potter and the philosopher's stone and i don't think you should read harry potter in the chamber of secrets because in my opinion those two are dumb what do you think jean gray have you read them Have you read them? I haven't, and I'm an avid reader. I'm just not a huge Harry Potter fan. I know it's just something I'm not into. However, if my boyfriend were into Harry Potter and I wanted to get involved, I would absolutely read at least a book. I would actually say that books one and two were an impediment to me finishing the series.

I would not have finished if I did not have a human child in my life who, I don't know whether she was illiterate or just lazy, but she was making me read these books to her. I was like, whoa. But I'm really glad that i did continue to read them and and this is nothing i'm sure there are people who love those first two books but i think it's both as a as a storyteller and as a writer uh jk rowling was sort of clearing her throat a little bit and setting the stage and then things she it really got much more interesting and dark and good as good as the kids got older.

So I would say we'll start with The Goblet of Fire. And I'm ordering you to read it too, Jean. Sorry. Oh, see, done. You know, I'll try. I'm all for trying, which Jason doesn't seem to want to do. Doesn't want to try. That's when, because Goblet of Fire is when you get a little bit bigger picture

of what the whole world is and how wizarding happens in other parts of the world and how they're different. And then there's a really dark undercurrent and some bad stuff happens. And it's good. I dig it.

Those are things I like. All right. And he's already seen all the movies. Yeah. Right. So there we go. Those are things I like. And he's already seen all the movies. Yeah, right. So there we go. I think that settles that one. I'm going to hit the gong.

Hit the gong to move on. Bong. Walker writes, I seek an injunction against my live-in girlfriend and her 10-year-old child. I seek an injunction against my live-in girlfriend and her 10-year-old child. I do the laundry since I have a peculiar folding requirements for my undergarments. Okay. Whoa. I contend. Whoa.

Hmm. Yeah. No, no, no thank you. Okay, let's leave that. I wish I didn't. Maybe it gets better. I'd rather not leave that to the imagination I'd rather he just explain what weird

mystery cult he belongs to or okay fine let's see I'm hoping it's origami probably not the thing is my leader told me I had to wear underpants made of bologna and so I need to fold them in an ice chest. I really need to be the one doing the laundry

since nobody else handles this bologna correctly. All right, let's just say he's got an eccentricity of some kind. Let's continue. I contend that when undressing, one should try not to turn their clothes inside out. If they stay right side out, it will save the eventual sorter of the finished laundry a considerable amount of time in folding and sorting.

I've even mimed over the dinner table how to properly take off a shirt and socks, two of the main offending garments. Sounds like a fun dinner. They contend that I am being obsessive, but it's such a simple request. I also believe socks should never be rolled into balls, instead be paired and possibly folded. Judge, should they try their best to keep clothes right side out when undressing? I loved how he threw the socks in at the last minute there.

Yeah, because you needed to know about the socks. It was almost like that was the thing that he really wanted to ask, but he was afraid to. He's like, sometimes I fold my underwear and then I do a demonstration. What about the socks, right? Because you can't, you can't. Oh, toss that right in.

Wow. Jean Grey, before I give you my ruling and the correct opinion, do you have a feeling that you would like to share? Oh, I do. I do. I have a couple of feelings. Yeah. Let's start with the miming at the dinner table. I'm going to need Walker to cut that out.

One, just the entire act of doing that. Two, maybe not the dinner table. Maybe a couch. If you're going to go that far, which you probably shouldn't. And my suggestion would just be that I need him to handle his own laundry. would just be that I need him to handle his own laundry and not expect everybody else to, you know, fold their clothes into origami-like shapes. We'll have unreasonable requests.

To be fair, I mean, okay, here's where I'm going to jump in, Gene, and say, as always, you're perfect, but this isn't an issue with his weird underwear folding. He's happy to do that. I agree with you that the miming at the table... Miming has to be deployed strategically in any

circumstance. Doing it at the table and doing it as underpants and undergarment folding, that's weird and needs to stop. But I will say all he's asking is that his girlfriend and her daughter make their clothes right side out before putting them in the laundry. And that's absolutely correct. What he is asking for is simple, believable, and right. Now, the 10-year-old, that's not a problem because 10-year-olds live outside of all human laws. But if your girlfriend is doing this, Walker, you may tell her

that I am telling her she's wrong. Because when someone does that and they're not going to do the laundry, then they're leaving work for other people to do. That is work that has to be done. And it may seem like a nothing burger sort of thing to do. And believe me, I can appreciate that it is a pain in the butt to take off your t-shirt and then make sure that it's right side out before putting in the hamper. It's always a pain in the butt to do something rather than not do something. But if you don't do it, someone else will. Living in a family is great, especially if you're a child,

because people do a lot of stuff for you. You take care of each other. But it doesn't mean that the work isn't there. you're a child because you don't you don't have to people do a lot of stuff for you you know you take care of each other but it doesn't mean that the work isn't there and in a world and in a in a situation in a context where people are doing stuff for you like maybe someone's doing your laundry for you because they love you you know what i mean it's easy to forget that that that is work that's getting done and so what i try to remind the human children who live in my house all the time is to be mindful of the work they leave behind for others always as i think we all should be every time we every time we throw something on the street uh or leave

a hotel room uh with uh having trashed it which is what I do in every hotel room. You know, it's like, you know, in Western civilization, for the most part, where we're no longer independent hunter-gatherers, we're leaving a lot of the work behind for other people to do. And that's okay, but be mindful of it. And if you can reduce that work a certain degree, then you're being more human. So I think if you take off your T-shirt

and you throw it in the laundry inside out, then you're a monster. And I have said that to my children many times. Well, okay. Then I can say something more reasonable then, that perhaps the miming how to properly take off a shirt and socks is not really the thing. Like, I don't need to know how to take off my clothes. If you would like me to then, once the clothing has been removed and before it goes in the laundry bin, to turn them right side out, then that's a fair request.

Yeah, you don't want to ever solve a problem with miming. Miming causes more problems than it solves. Yeah, and then if you're not going to do the rope or the wall or the elevator after that demonstration. What are we really doing here? Now, the sock balling up, that's a Marie Kondo thing. You're familiar with this best-selling book by Marie Kondo, The Everyday Magic of Tidying Up? No. Oh, Jean Grey. Oh, boy.

I feel like I just don't read books now. This is the point where we're going. I am ladling books onto your night table now. This is an intense book by a woman, I believe Japanese woman, perhaps Japanese American. I don't, honestly, I don't know. But her book is all about getting rid of stuff that doesn't spark joy in your life, that we accrue a lot of stuff, that we keep long after A, serves a purpose,

or B, gives us pleasure. And the idea is that everything, every physical item in your home should be actively giving you pleasure. And you're supposed to take all your clothes out and throw them all on the ground so you see all of your stuff. And then you go through, and we them all on the ground. So you see all of your stuff and then you go through and we discussed this on the podcast before,

but I'm, but Jean, Jean loyal listeners, Jean hasn't heard this yet. So I'm just going to quickly go over it again. And then you touch, you pick up each item of clothing you have and you concentrate on it and decide,

does this spark joy in my life? And if the answer is no, donate it, throw it away, give it to a friend, get it out of your house. Well, I got to say this then. I actually do this about once every two months. And I have gotten, I try to be as mindful as possible of not throwing a lot of things away that are not necessarily mine around the house. But I empty my closet and go around and I'm like, am I really, what am I really doing with this?

Do I need it? And then, you know, usually a lot of stuff goes to goodwill. That's wonderful. But Marie Kondo would say those are the wrong questions. The question is, does this make me happy? And let me ask you this, when you throw something away or give it to Goodwill or whatever, do you thank it for its service to you? I'm always happy that I got good usage out of it. Do you actually say thank you to that scarf you're donating to Goodwill?

No, because I'm not going to do that. Right. That's the other aspect of Marie Kondo is that she thinks everything has feelings. Yeah. And she has a thing about how the way I grew up putting my socks away after I learned it from my parents and their parents before them

is you put the socks together and then you fold over the end and ball them up. And she feels that it's unfair to ask add your socks do so much for you it is unfair to ask them to continue to work when they are at rest and that's what's happening when you're flexing now i would just say it probably wears out the sock faster but that blew my mind but she's saying that it's hurting the uh the sock feelings yeah why would you yeah why would you punish the sock that only wants to help you by making it work when it's at rest? And even though I was like, that's ridiculous,

now I can't ball up socks anymore. I don't want to hurt those little guys. Okay, well, I'm definitely not reading that book then. Oh, no, I order you to read it. Sorry. It's great. And I will also suggest suggest as one last thing, um, the game Katamari Damacy,

which is a, uh, Japanese game and, and gives me, oh, oh, I know, I know,

but I will say, um, for those of you who have played it, um, the joy that you get, uh, of tidying up. First, you start small, you start in a home. Explain what the game is.

I don't think I should explain the bigger picture of the game because it gets a little interesting and I don't want to get into that. But basically, you are sent to Earth to create new stars, but made from stuff that is found on Earth. And you are very, very small, and you basically roll around things into a ball, and you get bigger and bigger and bigger.

So for those of you... The ball gets bigger. Do you get bigger? The ball gets bigger and bigger. You do not get bigger. The ball gets bigger. Do you get bigger? The ball gets bigger and bigger. You do not get bigger. You stay the same. You just roll up this big ball of junk.

Everything that it touches becomes part of the ball of junk. Until you are rolling up the sky and the rainbows. And it's wonderfully fulfilling. Yeah. So to that point, well, I don't know what point you were going to make with this. Play the game. Play the game, right. I agree. Just play the game and leave your socks. And here comes

the bong. Bong. Got a lot of reverb on that one. That was nice. reverb on that one. That was nice. I felt that one. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org.

MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join. And you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In. Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right? Yeah, from the restaurant Kraft.

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Let's hear the sound. Yep, that's the sound of you learning a new language with Babbel. We're talking about quick 10-minute lessons crafted by over 200 language experts that can help you start speaking a new language in as little as one, two, three weeks. Let's hear that sound. Babbel's tips and tools are approachable, accessible, rooted in real-life situations, and delivered with conversation-based teaching. So you're ready to practice what you've learned in the real world, and you get to hear the sound. It's not just like a game that pretends to teach

you a language. It's also not a rigid, weird, hyper-academic chore. It is an actually productive app that actually teaches you while you are actually having a nice time. And you get to hear this sound. Here's a special limited time deal for our listeners right now. Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners at babbel.com slash Hodgman. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. This dispute was submitted jointly by wife Sarah and husband Joe. We've combined their submissions into one.

It's regarding the inclusion of trombonist Gabriel McNair and keyboardist Stephen Bradley as members of the band, no doubt. Joe maintains that Gabriel McNair and Stephen Bradley are indeed members of the band, as they go on tour with the group and have been credited on some of their albums and appear on their Wikipedia page. Sarah says, no, they are not members of the band. When they appear, they are credited as with. not members of the band. When they appear, they are credited as with. She adds that they are not even credited as additional musicians on Tragic Kingdom, 1995. They appeal

to Judge Hodgman. Please help. As stupid as it is, this is the most serious argument we've ever had in our four-year relationship. Well, it is very stupid. I will say that. But before I give my correct and considered opinion on this subject, Jean, do you have a guess as to how I will rule? I'm going to say... You are the world's greatest No Doubt fan. No Doubt. I'm actually a big No Doubt fan.

Sure. I will say that you would possibly say they are not members of the band. And as a working musician yourself, what is your reasoning there? I have performed many times and been on tour with many bands and many people, and it doesn't make me a member of that band. I performed with The Roots for a very, very long time on albums, on tours, but I was with the Roots. I was not a part of that specific band.

And as many musicians travel and are on the road and perform with many other bands, including their own solo projects, that just happens a lot. So, yeah. And a band is a little bit like a corporation do you know i mean like when you perform with the roots you are you are not getting uh never mind credit you're not getting uh a pre-negotiated amount of the money that is being generated by that performance right i mean correct you know they have a they have a business relationship with each other yes and a way of making decisions um that is different that does not include you do you know what i mean absolutely you can tell that i'm agreeing with you but i'm deferring to your

judgment because i i i'm learning a lot and you know like all of this is correct yeah a band a band is a band is a business arrangement. And when other musicians come on, say to play in, in, in, in, in studio or on tour, they're, they're hired guns. They are hired by the band to do that. And they do not have a portion or a share of the band's financial stake. You know what I mean? So, I mean, that's a kind of a rotten way to break it down, but that's what with means when, when bands are crediting other musicians on their album, right?

uh just in liner notes and such and it won't even be announced that way and those are you know a lot of session musicians just hired to play within many uh band sessions and wikipedia itself is wrong well not wikipedia is wrong a lot gene but not not as wrong as joe in this instance because joe says the wikipedia includes them in the band. But unless Sarah has come in and changed it in real time as a Wikipedia editor, it says right here, members Gwen Stefani, Tony Kanaal, Tom Dumont, Adrian Young, and then touring and session musicians Gabriel McNair and Stephen Brad. Oh. So it's right there. There you go.

It's right there. It's right there. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Gabriel Gabe McNair, who is a great trombonist. And I'm sorry, Stephen Bradley, who is a trumpet player and singer. But I got to call it as I see it. We all know this is sort of like how you just know a hot dog is not a sandwich. No Doubt presents itself consistently as a four-piece band.

Gwen Stefani and the guy who was her boyfriend and the other guy and the other guy. And that's who they are. Bong. Bong. Whoa, nice. You're welcome. Cleo writes, My husband Paul and I have been married for just almost 10 years.

Our anniversary is October 26th. We never had a proposal. Our discussions about our relationship just kind of evolved. I miss not having a proposal moment. I've been telling Paul that it isn't too late. The pressure is off. He doesn't have to buy me a ring, and he knows I will say yes. He thinks this is ridiculous and probably sexist.

What? Both of those... Yeah. Okay. Both of those things are probably true. Oh. But I would like a proposal anyway. I desire the judge to issue an order that my husband proposed to me, and not just a throw-off proposal, but a sweet

and planned one with a flash mob. You added a flash mob. I did. Although that's a possibility. I'm going to ask a different question this time of you, guest bailiff Jean Gray.

Can you figure out why Paul thinks that a proposal is, quote, probably sexist and why Cleo says that's probably true? I don't get that at all. Just because it's sort of traditional or what? Yeah, I think, you know, I think a lot of times, and especially now, there's some things that women are made to feel like, oh, well, if you like that, then that's, you know, you shouldn't, you don't have to do that anymore. You don't have to wear makeup to be pretty. And you're like, I just kind of want to wear makeup. So, you know, I think if she just needs to realize that it's just something that she actually really wants and it doesn't make it sexist yeah i mean if if she were saying if she was saying that a component of the proposal is say him asking her father for permission to marry her then yeah that is sexist because that is treating a woman like property that is trading and also dowry right exactly but i don't see it's interesting i feel i feel like uh paul's really pulling out all the the buzzwords in order to get out of doing the simple thing of making a a wonderful gesture towards his wife that he knows will make her happy

and would cost him zero emotionally or financially so don't be a creep, dude. Do it. Figure out some honest way that would be meaningful. Think about your wife for a second and think about what might really make her happy and what kind of gesture would really make her happy in terms of how the proposal would be expressed, whether that would be just simply taking her out to dinner and taking her hand and saying, I never said this, so it's long overdue. Will you marry me? Boom. Instant tears.

You're going to have a great date. You guys will have a great dinner. Or you could rent a Zeppelin or you know what I mean? Or you could go the Zeppelin route. Yeah. You know what? Here's what I'm going to do. Here's what I mean? Or you could go the Zeppelin route. Yeah. You know what? Here's what I'm going to do. Here's what I'm going to do.

Because I'm a little concerned that Paul is going to just punt this and just be like, that's so sexist. I'm not going to do it. So this goes out, Jean Grey, this one goes out to Cleo. I have a letter here from her husband, Paul, that he wrote to me. Dear Judge John Hodgman, I have been married to Cleo for 10 years.

Because of how our relationship just evolved, and maybe because I was a little unthinking and lazy, I neglected to propose to her when we got married. I know it would mean a lot to her, and so judged Sean Hodgman. Since we're both such big fans of your podcast, would you possibly read this message for my wife that I wrote myself with my own hand? This will be a real surprise to her. with my own hand. This will be a real surprise to her.

And if she's driving when this podcast comes out, we might both die in a fiery crash, and I wouldn't want us to die without her knowing. Cleo, I love you very much. I'm not a creep. This may seem a little sexist, much. I'm not a creep. This may seem a little sexist, but the truth is that I don't want to ever take anything for granted in our marriage. Most of all, your love. I can't, even though we've been happily married for 10 years and can logically conclude that you want to be married to me, it was a mistake to never ask you.

So now, through Judge John Hodgman, I'm asking, will you marry me? Signed, your husband, Paul. Thanks, John. I hope you read this on the air. read this on the air and also uh isn't it doesn't like balling up your socks like hurt the socks feelings that's just a ps please answer if you have time thanks paul there you go i didn't know that guy had it in him no me neither yeah i did not see that coming. Aw. Bong. Bong. Bong. Bong. Bong. Bong. Bong.

Bong. Bong. Bong. Bong. Bong. Bong. Bong. Bong.

Bong. Bong. Bong. Bong. That's the extra long bong and wonderful harmonies from Jean Gray. That was John Hodgman. Thank you. With Jean Gray.

Sorry. Sorry, Jean. Sorry. Sorry, Jean. You're just a session musician on this one. It was an amazing guest. It's okay. I'm not in the band.

It's fine. You're not in the band. I'm sorry you're not in the band. I think that means that we've come to the end of this particular docket, which is now cleared. Do we have some thanks and housekeeping to do?

If you have a case for the judge, submit it at www.maximumfund.org slash JJHO. I've been your guest bailiff, Jean Grey. Jean Grey can be reached on Twitter at at Jean Greasy.

That's at J-E-A-N-G-R-E-A-S-Y. I am at Hodgman, H-O-D-G-M-A-N. And of course, johnhodgman.com slash TOR is where you'll find out where I will be appearing all over the country.

Two countries. Julia Smith produces the show. Mark McConville is our editor. Thank you for joining us for the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Bum. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast,

The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice but to embrace because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls.

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