Judge John Hodgman - A Room With a Feud

Episode Date: May 1, 2013

This week, with guest bailiff TOM SCHARPLING of The Best Show on WFMU. Should this couple attempt an unorthodox living arrangement?

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm guest bell of Tom Sharpling. This week, room with a feud. Amanda brings the case against her husband, Mike. Amanda wants to rearrange their apartment to better suit their live work needs. Mike wants to keep things the way they are. Who's right? Who is wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. Well, here I am, Judge John Hodgman. Nice to see you, Guest Bailiff Tom. I do not have a piece of culture to reference. This is more of an audio daily double for the summary judgment. And so I want you to listen very carefully to this rather subtle sound.

Okay, I'll just play that for you again. Oh yeah, I could listen to that all night long. Guest bailiff Tom Sweareman. Amanda and Mike, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? Or whatever. Yeah. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he has so many rooms in his house,

that he actually has a replica of your living situation in his house? Yes. And thank you. Judge John Hodgman, you may proceed. Thank you very much, Guest Bailiff Tom. It's so nice to have you here. Well, it's nice to be here. Yeah.

We've wanted you to be a guest bailiff on this show for a long time, and we appreciate very much your actual terrestrial radio show, the best show on WFMU. very much your actual terrestrial radio show, the best show on WFMU. And the gracious plugs that you have given to this lowly podcast. Thank you. Well, sometimes you have to go – it's good to go down with the people. Yeah. And sometimes they've not been very gracious actually.

No, they've been horrible. And yes, it is true that I have so many rooms in my house that I have an exact replica of your apartment in my house or so I am told by my house hunter. That's not House Hunters International. That's the guy I employ to hunt out the new rooms in my house because my house is kind of like the – it's kind of like the multiverse. Like you know how scientists subscribe to the multiple worlds theory? That there are as many realities as there are the possibility of reality. So every possible reality exists. So it is with my house. So it's like living in a butterfly effect?

It's like – Kind of. It is in that it is an airship, yes. So the next room can change depending on which room you go into? No, it's not like Hogwarts. Jeez. What's that from? it's not like Hogwarts. Jeez. What's that from? That's a theme park.

Okay. Anyway, Amanda and Mike, nice to have you here as well. Thank you. You're welcome. For an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors, can you take a guess as to the sound effect that I played for you? Amanda? An alarm clock. Interesting. Close, but no. Mike? I was going to go with an alarm clock underwater. Exactly right. No. Sweet. Not at all. You guys,

I don't know where you live, but that is the sound of a refrigerator. And that is the sound of a refrigerator specifically in a studio apartment. That's what our alarm clock is. That's the sound of our alarm clock. Well, that's

partially the problem, because that was the sound that I would listen to while sleeping and eventually swore I would never listen to it while sleeping again. It forced me to get an apartment with more than one room. But now that is what we are talking about now. You have two rooms. No, excuse me, more than two rooms. You have a regular-sized apartment, but you are running out of room for all of your stuff and workshops and activities and game rooms and so on. Is that not so? Pretty much.

What do you— Well— Where do you— First of all, the crux of this is what, Amanda? We are students, and we—I work from home. Are you telling a lie? Are you doing a little improv? You're not sure what you are?

No. I think I'm a little nervous. Why? Because I am. Because I'm going to be mean to you for a while, and then I'm going to stop being mean and be nice, and then you'll think I'm on your side, then I'll be mean to you again?

Because I will decide early on, as Tom Sharpling has so aptly pointed out on his radio show, I'm going to decide early on that one of you is a monster and one of you is a saint, and I'm just going to ruthlessly beat upon that person until I switch sides at the last minute, keeping everyone guessing. Am I that predictable?

No. All right. I don't know why I that predictable? No. All right. I don't know why I'm nervous. I shouldn't be. But yes, we are students, and I work from home, and so the second bedroom is my office so that I can shut the door, shut everything out. So you have a two-bedroom apartment, and currently one bedroom is your bedroom, the other bedroom is your office, because you're a student and you work at home, you work at studenting?

I actually have a part-time job scheduling installs for a tech company. Oh, okay. And so you work out of that second bedroom? Yes, I work out of that second bedroom. Because you need a lot of privacy in order to write emails to tech companies to arrange schedules. You cannot be disturbed. There are phone calls involved in this as well. Now, does Mike also work at home? No, I don't.

Okay. What is your job? Or you're a student? I have no job. Let me ask you this question. I'm jobless. Yes. Are you an artist? I am. That's right. You have no job. Let me ask you this question. I'm jobless. Yes. Are you an artist?

I am. That's right. You have no job. You have a workshop. You have a workshop of some kind at home as well? Yeah, I have a little studio area. And where is the studio area? It's in the dining, what would be the dining room that's across from the kitchen.

Is it a room or is it an area adjacent to the kitchen area? It is an adjacent area. It is not itself a room. And it's also adjacent to the living room, so it's pretty open. Well, that makes sense because unlike scheduling tech installs, working on art with all of your concentration requires no privacy whatsoever. Yes. So, Amanda, you want to solve this issue. This is this is you do not like this and you have proposed a solution, which is what?

Yes. Yes. So, well, oftentimes, like if I come out to just get a glass of water or something like that, we end up talking to each other and getting distracted. You have to see your dumb husband. Are you married? Yeah. Right. You're married. Yeah. Yeah, we are. Yes, so, you know, oftentimes there's those distractions, and then there's been times I come home and the house just, like, smells like glue or paint because he's working on a school project. And so, like, for some of these reasons, I... And also because the area that he has to work in is fairly cramped.

area that he has to work in is fairly cramped um so i i thought it would be better for him and for us that he could put his studio area in the bedroom so that he would have more space he could close the door so that the stinky glues and paints wouldn't smell up the whole house. He could shut the cats out. Our two cats are really needy with needing attention. So you want to move his workshop into the bedroom? Yeah.

Out of the kitchen into the bedroom because it's such a distraction because when you are in your flow state and you're in the zone and you're scheduling those tech installs and you need a glass of water, it's so distracting to get up and have to walk out into the kitchen and see this guy working on his art.

What kind of art are you working on, by the way, Mike? You're talking about glue and paint? It sounds like the art of nothing. The art of self-abuse. This is not like a Citizen Ruth situation, is it?

It's performance art. A lot of paper bags around and silver paint around the rim of your mouth. He's going up to the Massachusetts Museum of Contemporary Art to do a life live install of himself as Citizen Ruth in two months.

Part of the Wilco solid sound festival, buzz marketing, buzz marketing. If only, no, I, that's, this is kind of the crux of the issue really.

Cause I am a lowly cartoonist. So those, those paint scents and and glue smells that loft through the house that is a rare occasion usually i am just focused on my cartoons first of all i just want to say that i said crux at the beginning of this podcast so you stole that from me just so just for the record you stole that from me and And second of all, I agree. Yeah, cartooning, like I don't think Jim Davis is opening up a bunch of tempera paints when he's doing Garfield. There was a stretch where I think he was. Are you thinking of Berkeley Breath when you do this incredibly colorful, pretentious opus paintings?

Well, the dude who does Heathcliff also. Oh, yeah. He cracks open yeah that guy remember that guy's pointillism period so why do you have glues and why do you have glues and and and paints well because i'm also an art student so um this semester i have a 3d design course so i am using you know glues to build and make other things. But, you know, the primary thing that I'm doing is not that. It is illustrating. Okay.

I got you. Let me get some details down here first. How old are you guys? I'm 31. Okay. And I'm 26. Okay. First of all, Mike, get a job.

Next. You've been married. You are married. And how long have you been married? Five years. And Amanda long have you been married? Five years. And Amanda, you're a student. I understand that Mike is a student of cartooning and 3D glue huffing installations. What are you a student of?

Sociology. Sociology. All right. And where do you guys live? Chico, California. Chico, California. Okay. Sociology. All right. And where do you guys live? Chico, California. Chico, California. Okay. Very well.

Your Honor, this is starting to sound like between Amanda being so nervous and this cartooning degree that Mike is going for, it's like an episode of – it's like the Americans. It sounds like they're – it sounds like a giant ruse. It's like all a cover story. Yeah. Well, when we got on, initially Amanda was like, we are students? Yeah. Right. Sounds like she did. It's kind of an East German accent almost.

Yeah, like she just opened the envelope with the story from the Kremlin. Yeah, precisely. By the way, nice buzz marketing for the Americans. FX Thursday nights. I don't even know what to do, precisely. By the way, nice buzz marketing for the Americans. FX Thursday nights. I don't even know what to do, honestly. So it sounds like Amanda, Mike, is interested in give you some – essentially the equivalent of what she has, which is a total private space in order to practice your art. Now, she wants to do this out of purely selfish motives. She gets tired of seeing you in the kitchen all the time.

But you are against this. Why? Okay. So if my studio becomes the bedroom, then the bedroom becomes the living room would become the bedroom. So we're going to move the bed out into the living room. And, well, the first reason that I don't want to. You mean like right into the conversation pit? I don't. You don't know what into the conversation pit? I don't...

You don't know what a conversation pit is because you're young. Yeah, sorry. No, that's fine. Go on. The first thing is that I don't really need that much space. I don't need the bedroom space. I have my illustration table, and that works well. And that works well. The second thing is I would like to be able to bring people over to our house and not have them like sit on our bed that would be in our living room. And that would be our weird bedroom slash slash socializing space. I feel kind of uncomfortable about that.

So you sent in some evidence and including the layout of the apartment, because I want to take a look at this. Because from the way you describe it, you're saying that you don't have, if you move your studio into the bedroom, your bedroom moves into the living room. The living room moves into abstract thought. There is no other space. You have no other room that would be a living room. Is that correct? Well, the living room, the only thing out of the bedroom that would come out is the bed. And the living room has enough space to have the couch and the TV and the bed.

So you would move your bed into your existing living room. In other words, you're not going to transform the living room into a bedroom. You're just going to take the existing entertainment center and coffee table and conversation pit and then shove your bed in there as well. Would that be accurate? Precisely. Yeah. And you have some photographs that you sent in. Yeah, precisely. Okay. Yeah. And you have some photographs that you sent in. I'm going to, since this is still an audio-only podcast, I will describe the photographs.

I see here Mike's studio. Tom, you can take a look at this as well if you see anything. I notice you have a copy of Scott McCloud's Understanding Comics. Yes. Piled up on the floor. I mean, I can understand. You've got a cat on your folding chair with your coat over it. You've got some pieces of paper with what I presume are your drawings taped to the wall. And, you know, your workspace is a mess. And I would say that that is more distracting than the prospect of talking to you is having to look at that. It's terrible.

All right. And then we have another view of your disgusting workspace. And now you can really see not only how close it is to the kitchen, but I get a full-on image of the cat face front. What is the cat's name? Tigger. This is very imaginative. What's your other cat's name? Tabby?

Oh. Fluffy? The Tigger came with is very imaginative. What's your other cat's name? Tabby? Oh. Fluffy? I think... The Tigger came with our last apartment. We did not name that cat. Although, we did name the second cat, and that doesn't make it any better. What is the second cat's name? Poopoo.

That's fantastic. Poopoo is fantastic. P-U-P-U, or like poopoo platter, or poopoo cat feces. Cat feces. That's disgusting. Yes. Our neighbor had a cat, and his two-year-old named the cat Pee-Pee, and we thought it would be funny to name our cat Poo-Poo.

We did it as a joke, not intending for it to stay, but it's what stuck, and so we have a cat named Poo-poo. We did it as a joke, not intending for it to stay, but it was stuck. And so we have poo-poo. I thought you were going to say our neighbor had a cat and his three-year-old wanted pee-pee and then they couldn't eat the cat, so we took him. We can't call this cat pee-pee. Next time you tell the story, make it that. Or that there would be some

contest in the city, the worst cat naming contest. You heard the kid across the hall's entry and you thought you could actually top it. We can't let this kid be the worst cat namer in Chico. This kid wants a name. And then at the ceremony where the winners are announced, second place, pee-pee. First place. Get up here, Mike and Amanda.

You did it. Now, I see you. Is that the chair you work in? It looks like a blue folding chair that the cat is sitting on. chair that the cat is sitting on? Like that's a $9.99 deal from an office, Max Depot, Staples Center or whatever, right? Yeah. Something like that.

And then you can sit on that all day? I have a pillow that I put on it. Is that what Tigger's on top of right now? Sort of this folded up brown blanket? The house pillow. Yes. It's only used for that chair. Are you guys extremely poor? No, we're just cheap.

Well, I mean, we're... There's nothing wrong with saying yes. You're both students. I don't expect you guys to have a lot of money. And also, if space were really an issue, I wouldn't imagine we'd be having this conversation if there was the alternative, which is like we just need some more space. Let's go buy something or rent something bigger. Right. You know what I mean?

But is that an issue? Is this apartment the one that you can afford right now and you can't go bigger? Pretty much, yeah. And then there's, you know, I don't say we're, like, really poor, but there's also priorities, too. So, you know, what money we have has to go to other things. Sure, comics, glue, Scott McCloud books. Yeah. Pretty much.

What are the priorities? What are the priorities that trump living someplace where you would both have private spaces and entertaining area and maybe you could actually get a $12 chair?

This is going to cause medical problems down the road, that chair. I'll just tell you right now. Somebody who makes a living sitting in chairs. Tom is a professional sitting in chair consultant based on his many years of experience. His entire profession involves sitting down.

That chair is going to cost you thousands of dollars down the road in chiropractic and acupuncture bills. So the sub thing changed chairs. No, I've never thought about that, but it is really uncomfortable that maybe that is something that should be a priority. It's funny.

I thought about it the moment that I saw the smallest digital image, but then I am 41 and you are 31. Are you still? I think even the cat looks uncomfortable on it. I think even Poopoo is saying, really? This is the best chair you guys can afford? He's mad because Poopoo. That's Tigger on the folding chair.

He's mad because Poopoo has already claimed the molded plastic lawn chair that serves as their dining room chairs. No, I'm mean to you. I'm mean to you. But, okay, so I see it's close quarters here. I see the kitchen counter is directly behind you. And now I see the layout here. So let me understand. Two bedrooms, there's a living room, a bathroom, and then this kitchen area.

And right now the bedroom is situated, excuse me, is the big red square the bed? Yes. And what size bed is it? Queen. Okay. That's not acceptable. Queen size bed. And which of these, it's hard for me to read this, which is the before and which is the after.

Is the yellow – are the yellow little squares Mike's office? That's all the furniture that is like Mike's desk. Okay. And he's got a couple other like, you know, shelves and stuff. Okay. So the place where this large red square is currently situated, now I understand that that's the bedroom. Do I understand correctly that there's some kind of porch or something off of the bedroom

or is that a big closet? What is that? It's a porch. Okay. It's a covered porch. And Mike takes stuff out there all the time and like spray paints and leaves things out. He does the fix-a-dent, I think.

Yeah, the glue adhesive. The stuff that keeps the pencil from smearing. Fix-a-dent is for dentures, I think. Right? It's for the performance art. But you know what? Amanda, I understand. So you're saying that Mike brings stuff through the bedroom all the time.

And that's why you want to give him the bedroom so that he can just, he'll have access to that porch all the time. Yeah, so that he has access to the porch. It's right there. But I mean, for me, the biggest thing is probably the fact that we don't get work done if we're in the same room together. So like I said, if I come out for a glass of water, you know, take a minute break from my tech scheduling, we end up talking about something, you know, something he read on the internet, news, know, something he read on the internet, news, classes, and we will sometimes get stuck talking for, you know, 15 minutes, half an hour. I know.

It's almost like you like each other's company somehow. It's almost like you chose to live together for the rest of your lives. Yeah. Amanda, let me just say something to you. Would you like to win this case? I'm not supposed to be,'m not supposed to be neutral here, all right, but I'm just going to do a little bit of advocacy. Would you like to win this case or no? I do want to win the case. All right. Let me suggest framing this in a different way. Rather than saying, it's such a drag that my husband is so distracting every time I leave

my private room to get a drink of water. It's such a drag that my husband is so distracting every time I leave my private room to get a drink of water. It's such a drag that my husband practices his art by going out onto the porch that we share all the time because it disrupts my ability to make phone calls and emails in the one private room in the house. Maybe you should just frame it in like I'd like my husband to have a place where he can really let go and practice his art. And I'm willing to make a tremendous sacrifice for him by putting my marital bed in the middle of the living room. That is part of it. So the picture of his workspace, that is tidied up. So it's normally not even that tidy. But do you understand what i was just saying to you like maybe be a little less punitive and a little bit more but but that like that that's

one of the things is like if his space was in the bedroom yeah he could just leave it like how it you know leave it how it is leave his projects. He could not have to stress about cleaning up if we are going to have company over. He wouldn't have to see me. So like it is, I do want him to have that space so that he could not, he could not be distracted as well. Cause there's a lot of the times that we start talking, he's working on homework. Mike, do you agree that there's a problem? With the talking to each other? Do you agree that something needs to change? No.

No, I like it how it is. I can tell he's telling the truth because whenever a man goes, no! I've learned a few neuro-linguistic tricks and ploys and truth reveals since in my couple of years of being an internet judge, and that's one of them. It was either that or he is taking acting classes from the Jerry Seinfeld School of Acting. So you would prefer that nothing change. Is that correct, Mike? Yes. Nothing changes and it is good. And let me look at the end point of the proposed Amanda changes.

Amanda, what you propose is that Mike now gets what by – is this to scale, this drawing, this blueprint? The furniture might not be totally to scale. The sizes of the rooms are approximately to scale. Okay. Because this bed looks huge. Yeah. There's no way that's a queen.

No way. California king, I'd say. You guys are good with that queen-size bed, really? Yeah, you can't have a queen-size bed. Listen up, everybody who's married. You may think that a queen-size bed is okay. And maybe until you're about 31, you can do this. You can sleep in a queen-size bed and sit on a crummy chair.

But you're going to need to up your game very soon if you want to have a happy relationship. King size all the way. That is why we're in school is so that we can get better jobs so we can afford a king size bed. Yeah, no, no, no. I understand. I'm not saying that you're, you know, I'm not, I am not being punitive. I'm giving you an aspirational – I am not being punitive. I'm giving you an aspirational goal, which you obviously share and obviously Mike does too because he's going to cartooning school. That's where the money is. Do you have a character that you draw, Mike?

Is there like a character that's your like – Not really. Billy, the dancing dancing iguana. Well, now there is. I'm using that. No, I'm working on the formal qualities, so I'm really trying to develop more of a style, a distinct style, so that I can tell that it's my own thing. You're not using this case as fodder

for one of your life story cartoons, are you? No, not at all, no. I have no webcomic or anything like that. I'm still, I feel like I'm still really developing it. I don't have anything that would be, that I'd want to show just yet. So you described yourself first as a cartoonist, so that is the end goal of everything that's going on here?

Like, what do you see as your life's goal, cartoon-wise? I'd like to do illustrations, and actually I would like to do fine art, like printmaking, that works with the cartoon characters and kind of try to take those formal qualities that you see in cartoons or in comic book art, like Steve Ditko or Jack Kirby, and take those qualities that they have used

and put them into fine art so that in a way to kind of show off what is good about that medium in the first place. Yeah, I think that's been done. Okay. Who's the famous, why am I blanking on this guy's name? Bang! What's that?

Lichtenstein. Yeah. Bang! No, that's more ironic and satirical. I don't know that he was really, I don't know that he had a sincere love for the medium. No, I think he just stole things, didn't he? I mean, wasn't that part of the controversy around him?

He just literally took panels and redid them? Right, right, exactly. Right, okay. All right, I can see where that's where the money is. I have a picture here of your living room, and I'm trying to square it. That's a little blueprint humor. I'm trying to square it with this blueprint because the living room, I see it's a just kind of a square room with a kind of black little couch and some grim pictures on the

wall and, you know, like a window treatment from a courtyard by Marriott and wall-to-wall carpeting. Is that your living room that I'm looking at here? Yeah. With a little TV and stuff? And what, you got some Lego going on over here in the corner? Oh, yes. Good eye.

Yeah. Some Lego. Look, I'm an adult with human children. I know what Lego looks like. Do you have, but you don't have a child, and I don't think those cats are Legoing it up. How much Lego do you have in your life, weirdos?

Not enough. Alright. We have Legos. Cool. So, but I'm seeing the wall, like, so the way you have this laid out here, you want to put, Amanda, you want to put the bed behind the couch. Is that right? In the corner with the foot of the bed or if you're even more insane, the head of the bed aligned with the entryway to the outside world. Is that correct?

It's not going to be aligned. That's where it's like approximate because there would be space. I've measured it out. So there would be a little bit of space. Right. But just so that I understand. So the head of the bed would be against the wall. Is that right?

Not out into open space, right? Do I understand that correctly? Right. Okay. So just so that our listeners can understand what I'm talking about here. And you can obviously look at all this evidence online. But the idea is that Amanda wants to move the bed into the living room such that if you're lying in bed, to your right will be the back of a black leather couch. And then a little further to your right will be a TV facing you.

And then at the foot of the bed to the left would be the door. How can I put this? Okay, let's say you're a crazy murderer. And you are breaking into the front door of their apartment. And you open the front door very easily. And you open the front door very easily and you open the door to your left and you walk in and you're like, where am I going to find the people in this house to murder? And then you just hear something immediately to your right and you turn immediately to

your right. Are Mike and Amanda fast asleep? That's where you want to put your bed? Yes or no, madam? Is that where you want to put your bed? Yes or no, madam? Is that where you want to put your bed? Yes. If someone's going to kill us, I'd rather them do it quick.

Never mind the fact that I don't think based on the photographic evidence you've submitted and the blueprints that you've drawn up that your bed could ever fit in there. You seem to believe it can though. But I mean, Tom, look at this. You see where the couch is here?

Yeah. And you see – it looks like to me there might be three feet between the couch and the wall. You've got like some posters that you haven't bothered to hang lying against the wall that track from pretty much the back of the couch to the corner of the room. I don't see how you could fit a bed in there at all unless the couch were basically right up against the TV. I don't know, but that's your plan. The pictures are deceiving.

The room is bigger than the pictures make it look, especially because it is only a queen-size bed. It's not a very large bed, so it would fit. And there, we might not have space for the coffee table in front of the, like if we had the coffee table between the TV and the couch, that might be cramped. So the coffee table might have to move, but, um, yeah, no, I mean, why would you want a coffee table in your living room, which also has your bed in it? That would be crazy.

It does play into – if there is some kind of like double life going on, which I had called on these two. Oh, right. Yeah. So when this dude comes in, who I'm assuming is a CIA agent or something, they've got the drop on them. Oh, right. Because all of a sudden he's looking around for the bedroom.

Right, he's immediately exposed. Then the dart gun goes off and he's dead in the doorway. Yeah. One last question before I go into chambers to make my ruling. Why not do something else? go into chambers to make my ruling. Why not do something else? In other words,

why not move Tom's workspace into what is currently your workspace, Amanda, and Amanda, you move into the kitchen. That way, you could get water any time you wanted, and you'd never have to see this dum-dum. And he would have a straight shot through the bedroom

to the screened-dum. And he would have a straight shot through the bedroom to the screened-in huffing porch. And you'd still have a living room where you could actually have people over without having them wonder what's going wrong in your lives. Well, I mean, the big thing,

the other distraction is our two cats. They meow. They meow a lot. They are two cats. They meow. They meow a lot. They are vocal cats. They are cats. And Poo Poo particularly likes...

That is the worst name. I'm sorry. I interrupt. You know you can rename the cat. This is not set in stone. She responds to it and she even meows in two syllables. Like, we should. I agree. I agree.

I don't understand what that means. Can you imitate the cat meowing in two syllables, please? Meow, meow. What? No. No, come on. This is a serious request from your judge. You brought this into this courtroom.

You're not getting out of here until you imitate your cat meowing in two syllables. You know what it sounds like. I will imitate my cat if you do the same. Go. Meow, meow. All right. I'll accept it. That was pretty good.

Now are you ready? Now you think that's – and that's what you think is distracting Amanda? Because get ready to hear my cat. No, our other cat. Wow. That's basically the sound our other cat makes. That's what Tigger makes? Yes, Tigger makes that sound.

Are you awaiting his death as anxiously as I'm awaiting my cat's death? Unfortunately. The cat that I rescued from the streets of New York and used to consider my own child until I had children and realized, oh, you're a cat. Yeah. And the sad part is he realized it too. It's a tragic situation. So your argument is you can't take the kitchen workspace and neaten it up because this would solve – you appreciate how many problems this would solve.

I accept that Mike is a slob with terrible choice of chairs. You get him out of there, put him into your current workspace. He's hidden away. No one ever needs to see his dumb comic books. You get to neaten up that whole area. You've got a beautiful workspace. You've got access to water, which you seem to love so much.

And you still have a regular living room and you have a great bedroom with this wonderful porch but the but the but the problem is the cats yeah because i like i said i'm on the if i'm on the phone i i mean i have like a weekly conference call and like there's other times i'm on the phone and if the cats start meowing like in the middle of the call. It's just unprofessional. Yeah, I understand, because you have a weekly conference call. Okay, I understand.

Okay, I think I know everything I need to make my decision. I'm now going to go into my chambers slash sauna slash living room slash mud room and think this over and decide whether or not I'm going to order you to murder your cats. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Now, Amanda, how do you think things are going with this case? I honestly don't know i thought i had a really good argument and have you ever have you ever considered seeing a doctor about this uh this hydration issue that you seem to have i mean you you well i want to commend you being hydrated is

important but you seem water you know you might want to consider you. Being hydrated is important, but you seem water. You might want to consider getting one of the cooler set up in whatever room you end up working in. That might be a way to work around that issue. Mike, in terms of the work you do as a cartoonist, do you feel having a separate room would actually help your work on some level? Would there be a benefit to that, to being able to have that room with the porch adjoined that you could just consider all yours in the corner of the apartment? You know, I don't think so I think that the space that I have works out really well you know and when I'm doing my work a lot of times I do get really focused on it so I can do that when I'm in a open space or whether I'm in a confined space and and what kind of parties were you thinking that you would have that were the bed being in the middle of the room? I mean, these are fellow cartoonists, I'm assuming.

They'd be coming over to watch Farscape with you guys. They wouldn't be able to roll with the idea of a bed in the middle of the living area? No, I think it's – we're actually new to Chico. We've moved here to go to school. We don't know a lot of people, and so I kind of don't want, you know, the first time we bring some new friend over to have kind of an

unusual setup. So I just want to have a setup that's, you know, normal so they don't really realize how strange we are right off the bat. Well, isn't Chico the party capital of America? Yeah. I think they could roll. I personally think they would be able to roll with the idea of a bed.

I might be personally concerned about bed bug issues of illustrators with their skeevy bags, their notebooks, and their little sketch pads. But look, this is your house. And I guess we will see what Judge John Hodgman has decided. And we'll be back in a moment with Judge John Hodgman's decision. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join, and you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning,

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Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom. Now, look, I've lived in some weird places in my life. You know, I was a student and I lived in a basement room on a mattress on the floor. And then when I moved to New York, I shared an apartment with my friend Adam Sachs. And literally, this apartment had three floors, but it was literally one room. It was a giant cube with a lower kitchen floor, step up to a living room floor, walk up to a bedroom loft. And Adam got the bedroom loft and I actually slept in the living room. And I would sleep there often every night. Oh, also the one window in this one cube room was at ground level.

So we were below ground level. The window started at ground level where you would see people's feet walking by and went up about another five feet. So a human could be walking by the window, stop, look in the window. You could see them kind of put their arms akimbo and shake their head wondering who would live in that. And I knew sleeping there every night that at any moment Adam could wake up and just sit up in his bed and stare at me sleeping, or some random stranger would be staring at me in this weird early 90s condominium panopticon.

But the truth is, you do what you have to in your life, and you are lucky to have shelter in this world at all. A lot of people have a lot less. But I did make it my mission in life after that and after several studio apartments later, never to sleep in the same room as a refrigerator. It is okay for a dorm or hotel room, but even embassy suites puts the fridge in the crummy fake living room because the hum of a refrigerator's compressor is to start and go hum. It wakes you up from your sleep hum. And when you do finally fall back to sleep, it comes on again and it drills into your ear a cold whisper that you are not the kind of person who deserves two rooms in life, that you're falling behind and you will

never catch up. And that is not where you want to be. I really take this issue of moving the bed into the living room very seriously because this is a big psychological transgression that just hurts me inside. You're taking literally the most private space in your life, the place where you become unconscious. And of course, the place where you share many tender moments with your loved one. And you're moving it into the most public space in your life. And this is hard to reconcile, not just because of the philosophical issue, but because when you sleep there and know that a murderer could walk in at any moment and go, oh, hi, guys. I'm so sorry to wake you up. I have to murder you. Normally, I prefer a little bit more of a buildup, maybe a walk through a breezeway or a foyer.

But here you are. So I guess we should get this over with. But when you're sleeping there, it announces not only to the world, but also to yourself that you need more space, but cannot have it. And these are the things that disturb sleep, which is about 90% of the point of the bedroom. And I would say that sleep next to a good desk chair is the most important thing in the world, whether you want to be an artist, a cartoonist,

a sociologist, or a tech install scheduler. So, in no way was I ever going to allow you to move that bed into your living room. That is bonkers. You would be unhappy. And more to the point, the people of Chico, California who came into your house would know you are unhappy and wonder what is wrong with you. And you both deserve better than that because I do think you're both great, nice, funny

people. The problem in this case is asymmetrical in that Amanda thinks there is a big problem and Mike thinks there is no problem. I think the solution is for Amanda and Mike to switch places and then when you have to have that weekly conference call, you're going to put those cats into the bedroom and just get it done with.

And then you have a beautiful kitchen. All your problems are solved. That said, you're lucky, Amanda, because Mike doesn't think there's a problem. Mike is happy to stay where he is. And all you need to do is stay in your private room and not get distracted by him, which is easy for you to do because you have a door to close. Therefore, since Mike is happy enough with this situation and has not suggested otherwise, I'm not going to order you to move to switch places. But I do find in Mike's favor, and I do recommend exactly what Bailiff Tom says,

maybe get a water cooler, maybe get a little hot plate, put it up in there. Everything that's missing in your life, everything that you need from that kitchen, get a little microwave plate. Do it up in there. Everything that's missing in your life. Everything that you need from that kitchen. Get a little microwave. You know what I mean? A dorm fridge. Get a dorm fridge. You know, you don't have to sleep in there.

You can get whatever you want. Get a little kitchenette. Put it in there. And Mike, you know what? Step up your game, buddy. Get a nice drawing table. Get a nice chair. Put some money aside. Or even chair. Put some money aside.

Or even better, put some money aside. Get a jar out, and every time you swear, put a dollar in there. And then maybe eventually rent an art studio for yourself in Chico, California. It can't cost that much. And you're going to raise the money very quickly because you're going to put a dollar in there every time you say your cat's name. because you're going to put a dollar in there every time you say your cat's name. So to sum up, I find in favor of Mike. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge Sean Hodgman rules that is all.

Mike and Amanda. That was a pretty sensational turn of events there at the end. How do you feel about the ruling, Amanda? I'm a little disappointed, but I can live with it. And would you consider some sort of, you can even get these boxes of Poland Spring. They sell like, it's like a 64-ounce thing. Those are not. The money you've saved on that chair alone over the years can afford you one of those every once in a while. Sparklets, not to mention, I keep mentioning these water brands, buzz marketing water brands.

And, Mike, the ruling, does this sit well with you? No pun intended? Yes, it's great. I realize now that I should invest in a good chair. I see the wisdom, but I do feel really good about this ruling. Great. And I will say, not to make this about the chair and the draft board that you need, when you are in professions like this, like this, when you have certain things that are befitting of the way you would like to see yourself as an artist or as a cartoonist, those things tend to help you out a lot.

When you have a nice chair and a decent draft board, you tend to feel like you are on the path to be what you want to be. And if I may say, it'll neaten up the appearance of the entire area. And maybe your wife won't hate it so much when she has to see you. That would be nice.

That'd be nice. Mike and Amanda, thanks for being on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you. Hello, teachers and faculty. Thank you. teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice but to embrace.

Because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. What are you doing over there,

Judge Hodgman? Tom, you startled me. I was just working on this new cartoon. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Hmm. Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try.

Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ugh! We are so close. Stop podcasting yourself.

A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go. You got a sketch pad and a... Yeah. I decided I'm going to become a cartoonist. I have these two crazy characters. What are the characters? They're Poo Poo and Tigger. They're cats.

Uh-huh. Cats. So two kind of fun cartoon cats? Two fun-loving cats. One of them meows like this. Meow, meow. The other one goes... Meow, meow, meow, meow, meow.

I see you drew a, it's like a water cooler. Yeah. They're both standing in front of a water cooler. Yeah, it's called Water Cooler Talk with Poo Poo and Tigger. And they just talk about what was on Walking Dead last night.

So they seem like very hydrated cats. One of them is super hydrated. And the other one never drinks water at all. It's the Aquos intolerant. Yes, exactly, and they hate each other. And one of them is trying to get the one who stands near the water cooler all the time but doesn't drink out of there. Okay. And you may notice that I'm sitting not only on an Aeron chair by Herman Miller.

Or is it Aeron for Herman Miller? I don't know. I don't listen to NPR enough. But I'm actually, I have one Aeron chair balanced on top of another. Wow. That's how much lumbar support I'm getting right now. It almost might end up being bad for your lower back. It's so good for it that it

almost sends it the other way. I'm unable to stand up without support now. I need lumbar support all of the time or else I just crumble in half. Would you like to take some cases off the docket? Oh yes, please, boy. Is it on or off the docket? Clear the docket. Let's clear the docket? Oh, yes, please, boy. Is it on or off the docket? Clear the docket.

Let's clear the docket. Let's clear the docket. Well, we have here, Stacy writes in, My husband is a stay-at-home dad. He prepares a nutritious breakfast for our two children every day. Often he slices my children's oranges into thin circles, much like a bartender would do for a daiquiri. Delicious.

And puts them on the plate for the children to enjoy. He knows that slicing the oranges this way drives me crazy. It drives me batty. My favorite part about this, and puts them on a plate for the children to enjoy. Because you know what children enjoy? Things on plates. They're very formal children. Daddy, daddy, put it on a plate.

Can I load the dishwasher, daddy? Can I load the plates, please? Well, back to this. Stacey says, the oranges should... I can't wait till we get this Big Mac home so I can put it on a real plate. Sorry, Stacey. Sorry, Tom. The oranges should be sliced into vertical triangles like any normal person would prepare them.

My husband insists on serving them like we're living in a tiki lounge. I'm convinced it's just pure passive-aggressive behavior. I would like you to stop him from doing this. My kids can enjoy a horizontally sliced orange when they are 21. Now I'm trying to picture what she's talking about. a horizontally sliced orange when they are 21. Now I'm trying to picture what she's talking about. So a horizontally sliced orange would be cutting it longitudinally.

So you get, like, cutting it into quarters, like what Marlon Brando does in The Godfather when he puts the orange in his mouth to scare the grandson and dies. Spoiler alert. Yeah. Yeah, okay. Spoiler alert. Yeah. Yeah. Spoiler alert.

Yeah. Okay. As opposed to cutting it latitudinally. Is that right? Latitudinally would be, right, so you get the circles, right? I didn't know you had to do anything to oranges. I thought they kind of tore apart themselves. They're kind of self-slicing.

I thought that was a part of the beauty of oranges. Yeah. I agree with you. So anytime you're slicing an orange, it's an beauty of oranges. Yeah. I agree with you. So anytime you're slicing an orange, it's an insult to nature. Yes. And therefore, you can do whatever you want. You can end up with some kind of Moby Dick scenario. You're literally going right in the face of something larger than you.

Yeah. Yeah, the orange is going to come back and haunt you. I would say cut it the way your husband cuts it. I think making those beautiful latitudinal cuts, it's cut that way for beauty because you get to see the radial symmetry within the orange before you eat it. I think it actually probably cuts the individual sacks of orange juice open so that you can really enjoy the flavor. And everyone knows you put one of those longitudinal cuts in your mouth

and then suddenly you're an old Italian man dying in a cornfield or whatever. Beanfield, I guess it was. Yeah, I don't see what the problem is. Your husband is not only giving your children delicious food on a plate to eat, he's also getting them ready for the first time they go into a bar. They're not going to be scared by what they see.

I think that's good. And I would also add to this that I think Stacy, if anything, is driving her children toward tiki lounges with this denying of, no, you wait until you're, like, that's tiki lounge behavior. Right. That's, you know, that's daiquiri behavior. You're going to jump forward 20 years and the kids will be. Yeah, the kids are going to rebel when they're 13 years old and start, you know.

The daiquiri twins. Right. They're going to start reading Dale DeGroff and artisanal mixology books and drive their mom crazy to rebel. Yeah. Listening to Les Baxter albums. And this case, this docket piece was lost the moment this lovely woman, Stacy, equated cutting oranges with passive-aggressive behavior.

I do not see how that, I don't see how that tracks at all. I just don't understand how cutting enters into oranges. I thought, again, they're kind of... I will tell you something. Oranges. I thought, again, they're kind of... I will tell you something. Any time someone's mom cut up an orange for me when I was a child, or now, I suppose, I'd be like, what are you doing? Stop that. Peel it, and I'll take the sections apart myself. Thank you very much. Only child, you know.

And also, these kids don't want to eat oranges. Go get them some candy. They don't care as long as it's on a plate. Okay, Tom, let's go to the next one. Hold on a second, Your Honor. Let's, uh, I think we're going to go to a little break. All right. I'm going to tear some limes apart with my hands in the meantime. The Judge John Hodgman Podcast

is supported by donations from listeners like you at MaximumFun.org slash donate. And by IFC, presenting Marin, the new comedy based on the life and podcast of comedian Mark Marin. Marin presents a fictionalized version of Mark's life struggles and relationships, including guest appearances from Judd Hirsch, Gina Gershon and Adam Scott. Marin starts this Friday with guest star Dave Foley at 10, 9 Central on IFC. The second item on the docket, Joe from Gowanus writes, I referred to myself as a comedy nerd recently, and a friend told me it was inaccurate and poserish to label myself as such.

His logic? While I am an obsessive consumer of comedy podcasts, albums, movies, books, comedy world gossip, etc., I almost never go to live comedy clubs due to vague agoraphobia, misanthropy, and a general lack of funds to purchase heritage clothing, pocket squares, and expensive eyewear, which I gather is now de rigueur amongst comedy world impresarios. Big words, Joe. Big words. De rigueur. rigor amongst comedy world impresarios. My question is... Big words, Joe. Big words. De rigueur. My question is, do you have to be a live comedy club theater improv regular in order to label yourself a comedy nerd, or may I continue to refer to myself in this manner?

First of all, there's no gossip as juicy as comedy world gossip. Oh. Did you hear what happened over at the pit last night? Yeah, I think I saw it on TMZ. Blind item. I think I saw Max Silvestri coming out of the UCB East last night, and he had a few choice words to say. Let's throw to him.

Comedy world gossip. Well, here's what I have to say to you, Joe. The fact that you are a vague agoraphobe, an agoraphobe of any kind, but especially vague, and an obsessive hoarder of the stuff that you like, which is comedy stuff, I think that absolutely qualifies you as a nerd. That's precisely what makes you a nerd. Agoraphobia and hoarding the stuff you like. Your friend, who presumably does have the right clothes and eyewear and pocket squares and so on,

he's using his knowledge of the comedy community to bludgeon you for lacking a kind of authenticity. That makes him a comedy hipster. The distinction I'm making here, Joe, is you like the things you like. You like them unapologetically. You hoard them. And you also don't like to go out of your house. You are absolutely, if there is a thing as a comedy nerd, you are it.

And your friend, who likes to spend a lot more time telling other people that they don't like things in the right way, that guy is a comedy hipster, or maybe just a hipster, because that is gross. But here's the thing. Labels are gross. Forget it. Just like the things you like. Right, Tom?

Yeah. It's hard enough in this life to just get by. And so you find the things you like. And if that's what gets you through and you're not hurting anybody, that's enough. I would actually say that he became a comedy nerd as soon as he wrote this aggrieved email about his comedy nerd status being challenged. Yeah. And he's also a comedy nerd because he's mad at people who go out.

But that said, go watch a lot. Look, I know what it's like to not like crowds and not like pushing and shoving. There's ways to be at the back of the room where you're not boxed in by people

or you're not going to get heckled by whoever is on stage. Just go to a place, hang in the back of the room, be mobile, and you'll be fine. You should go out, not to make your friend happy, because if you like comedy, you will enjoy seeing it in a live space. And you live in a place where you can see a lot of great live comedy. Absolutely. You're lucky to be in New York City. And I can say as a comedy nerd myself, some of the best moments I've ever had with comedy

have been seeing them in a live venue because there's something special that comes out of that that no podcast or movie or book can ever possibly capture. Maybe the comedy gossip sheets get close, but there seriously is nothing like being in a room where you're watching comedy take place. And I think both guest bailiff Tom and I can agree. You should never speak to this friend again. He is dead to you as he is to us. I've been your guest bailiff, Tom Sharpling.

Thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. And thank you, guest bailiff Tom Sharpling, for coming down here into a basement with me. Well, thank you for having me in this basement. I look forward to listening to you on the best show on WFMU and your own podcast. Well, the best show is available on the radio on Tuesday nights, or you can listen to it streaming over at WFMU.org or as a podcast over at your usual podcast repository sites. And I also do a long-form music interview podcast called Low Times.

Check your comedy gossip sheets for all the details. And thank you, Danielle and Julie, for the suggestion of this week's case name. And once again, this episode of Judge Sean Hodgman was recorded live in the basement of the Creek in the Cave Comedy Club and Restaurant in Long Island City. This basement is also the source of Cave Comedy Radio Network, a great network of podcasts that you can listen to and should listen to. Thanks again to Marcus for producing this episode of Judge John Hodgman. of Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is a production of MaximumFun.org. Our special thanks to all of the folks

who donate to support the show and all of our shows at MaximumFun.org slash donate. The show is produced by Julia Smith and me, Jesse Thorne, and edited by Mark McConville. You can check out his podcast, Super Ego, in iTunes or online at gosuperego.com. You can find John Hodgman online at

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