Judge John Hodgman - Are We Fair Yet?

Episode Date: November 23, 2016

Jeff brings the case against his girlfriend, Megan. When they go on road trips, Megan thinks they need to equally split driving responsibilities, even though she doesn’t enjoy driving. Jeff is happy to drive long distances, and doesn’t think splitting is necessary. With Guest Bailiff Jean Grae! Thank you to Ryan Byers for suggesting this week's title! To suggest a title for a future episode, like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook. We regularly put a call for submissions.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm guest bailiff Jean Gray. This week, are we fair yet? Jeff brings a case against his girlfriend, Megan. When they go on road trips, Megan thinks that they need to equally split driving responsibilities, even though she doesn't enjoy driving. though she doesn't enjoy driving. Jeff is happy to drive long distances and doesn't think splitting is necessary. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John enters the courtroom and presents the obscure cultural reference. Santa called his elves together to soup up his old sleigh so Rudolph and the other reindeer could rest on Christmas Day. He's got a million miles to travel and he does it in one day. And that's why Santa Claus has got a souped up Santa sleigh. It's got a rocket burning mighty quick, turning souped up Santa's sleigh. It comes in like a streak of light and it goes out the same way. Hey now, fat man, come down off my roof. That chimney's too small. You're gonna fall. Come on down off

that roof. Okay, now, Gene, this is the last verse. Sing along with me. Sure. When you hear that rocket roar, you know Santa's on his way. That's right. But he'll be back again next year in his souped up Santa sleigh. Guest bailiff Jean Grey, swear them in. Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? So help you God or whatever. I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling despite the fact that he doesn't believe in banana splits or

responsibilities? It's questionable, but I guess I do. I do. Okay. Judge Hodgman. Okay. Yeah. First of all, welcome, Bailiff, Jean Gray. Thank you. Guest Bailiff, Jean Gray. Oh, by the way, Jeff and Megan, you may be seated.

And now I'm going to do the cultural reference, but let me just, you know what, Jean, I'm so happy to have you here. We're sitting in a beautiful, dark, sort of beautiful, dark, cool room in Manhattan. We're in the studio. One of the rare times I've done this podcast in the studio, specifically Argo Studios with Benign... Hey, Paul, how do you pronounce your last name again? Ruest. I don't think so. Paul Ruest, behind the glass, looking down upon us. It's a good day to be in a quiet room outside of your house with friends. It's very nice. I'm going to stay here after we're

done. And because we're here, I'm just going to do the plugs now, like a normal podcast. You know, a normal podcast, do the plugs at the top of the show before they give away all the content. That's not how we do it at Judge John Hodgman. Yeah, I like this. It's a new day. We normally do it at the very end of the show after everyone stopped listening. But it is today. If everything goes according to plan, this will be released today, Wednesday, November 23rd, 2016, the day before Thanksgiving.

I give thanks for Jean Grey, because on December 4th, I got nothing coming up. But December 4th, you have a big show. Yeah. An afternoon show at Union Hall called Church. Church of the Infinite You. That's right. And I've been to two meetings of your church. You have and you've been extremely helpful at both of them.

Well, I have tithed for sure. It has been an incredible experience. If you're anywhere near Brooklyn, New York, please go to see this. It's not a show. It's a meeting. It's a meeting of fellowship and refreshment and comfort and mutual care in a basement with a bar. With mimosas. It's the way church always should have been. Absolutely.

And it's an amazing experience if you get to go. It's December 4th and other Sundays in the future. Yes. So if you're not listening to this precisely today on the 23rd of November 2016, you have a chance to see it. How are you doing, Jean? I'm doing pretty good today. It is actually really nice to be in a quiet... The room's at a good temperature.

Yeah. I like that. I'm doing good. It's just exciting to be around other people because otherwise I am inside my head and down. Nobody wants... Yeah, exactly. Nobody wants that. I don't know how you guys are doing down there, Jeff and Megan in North Carolina, but let me just say the other plugs.

I'm going to make a donation to the ACLU and to Planned Parenthood today. And you guys can do that too. I'll plug them. And if the election went your way, then you're still my friends and neighbors, but you made my daughter cry. Yeah.

She saw a qualified civil servant who happened to be a woman lose a job to a weird cartoon white man who bragged about molesting women. That was the message you wanted to send my daughter. Guess what?

She got it. Good job. But you know what? You're still my friends and neighbors. Just give me a minute. Give me a minute. We'll get back together on that later.

End of political talk. Now we go to Jeff and Megan. Maybe they've walked out. I think they're gone. Oh, no. I think we're still here. Okay, go to Jeff and Megan. Maybe they've walked out. I think they're gone. Maybe they left. Oh, no. I think we're still here.

Okay, good. Jeff and Megan, those were our plugs. For an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors, can you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom singing, I have to say, rather badly? Let's see. Megan, you have been brought to my court against your will. And so you have the first choice to either guess first or make Jeff guess first. What is your choice? I'm going to guess first.

You're going to guess first? Megan, I like this. This is going so far so good for you. People who guess first already have it. They're brave. Fortune favors the bold. What is your guess, Megan? Well, it sounded like some sort of jingle almost.

I'm going to just say like a soup jingle that was like featured around the holidays. A soup? From the 50s. A soup jingle from just holidays a soup from the 50s jingle from just writing this down from the 50s like campbell's soup in the 50s oh that's specific about santa something about santa campbell's soup but you know they couldn't i'm gonna say right now there's a small flaw in your logic because um santa is owned by coca-cola they wouldn't let campbell's soup use Santa. We'll see. I'm putting it in the guest book in any case.

Mark it down. All right, Jeff. What is your guess? I'm going to say it is a very colloquial thing that you guys sing up in... I think I've heard everything I need to. Massachusetts. Oh, you just said a very colloquial thing

that is set up in Massachusetts. Are you guys singing in Massachusetts? Let me tell you right now, we do not. Like as a greeting? Yeah. It's a very long greeting. Yeah, that's right. That's how we all say hello.

It's a traditional New England greeting is the guess that I'm writing down for you. By the way, Jeff, so far, Megan, in the first-past-the-post race that this is, Megan is ahead of you by about 35,000 electoral points, because she guessed first. And also,

she made a real guess, whereas you made a reference to my heritage. Tried to pass it off as a guess. It's not a real guess. No, that's not true. She's at least trying, Jeff, but we'll see. We'll see where it goes.

Eventually, we'll come to the argument in about 35 years. But for now, I would say both, indeed all, guesses are wrong. Jean, do you know what it's from? My guess is a song written. Jean Grey is correct. Thank you. It is a song. A song written in Ben Carson's book, Gifted Hands, that he sings to soup.

I'm going to go with that. Well, you're about as close as they were. I felt pretty good about it. I have to say, I'm not surprised no one got it because I did a very terrible version of it. I didn't have a lot of time to rehearse it. I didn't get the tune exactly right. I feel like he wouldn't get the tune exactly right. Civilization is collapsing around our ankles, so forget it.

Who cares? that song was sung by the actor Paul LaMatte to the actor Jason Robards in the opening scene of a movie called

Melvin and Howard when Howard love that movie what's that love that movie you never saw it Melvin

I just said I loved it really yeah oh no I thought you were being sarcastic I was okay

goodbye well let me tell you the story Gene because we got I thought you were being sarcastic. I was. Okay. Goodbye. Well, let me tell you the story, Gene. Because we got Jeff and Megan in a dispute over car rides and road trips. And this movie, Melvin and Howard, opens when Melvin, who's kind of a schlub, picks up this crazy old man who's collapsed on the side of the road. And they go on a long drive together, and he makes him sing along. Melvin makes him sing along to this goofball Christmas carol that he's written and is trying to sell. Is this a horror movie?

No. It's a slice of history, because I think it's based on a true story. But the weird old man that he picks up turns out to be howard hughes in his later deranged years and howard and supposedly howard hughes left melvin a lot of money having met him this one time and sang a song with him and the rest of the movie is about melvin not getting what he was promised oh man as a as a hard-working caucasian american man not getting what he was promised. Oh, man. As a hardworking Caucasian American man, not getting what he was promised. Oh, poor thing.

And it ends with him voting for Donald Trump. Yeah, okay. See? It's a very long form movie. Like this podcast. Anyway. Okay. Jeff and Megan, I've been going really political here and I don't want to talk about politics

anymore. We're all friends. So you're both wrong. And the reason I brought it up, of course, is that, you know, there are a lot of movies with road trip portions. And this is the one that I figured you could not guess. And so now we have to hear the case. Jeff, you bring the case against Megan.

Megan, you think you need to split the driving equally down the middle, even though you don't like to do it. Is that correct, Megan? For the most part, I don't enjoy it as much as Jeff does. That's true. Does Jeff really love driving? I think so. I do. You got very wistful there for a minute, Jeff.

I do. Tell me about how much you love driving, Jeff. Well, I just bought a new car. What'd you get? It's a ***. And it is an absolute joy to drive. We haven't really taken more than one road trip in this car, but it's really fun. So, yes, I do enjoy driving, even long distances.

What do you enjoy? Because, you know, we've talked a lot on the podcast about the pleasures of driving a manual transmission car. And I have absolutely nothing but respect for anybody who gets a hybrid or electric vehicle and is trying to help out. But it wouldn't seem to me that that would be a car that was traditionally fun to drive. Well, I've never had a car before that would track your miles per gallon, track how much money you're spending per trip. And this one does. That's the pleasures of the open road. Statistics. I enjoy the metrics.

You love the metrics. Yes. That's fantastic. And do you ever get so, so wrapped up in your gas efficiency meter that you go off the road? Fortunately, the *** has a... Okay, wait a minute. Wait a minute. All right.

Let's just call it... We'll stop buzz marketing your car because now I believe you're sent here from ***. We'll call it a Vauxhall Poutine. Okay. That was my joke from the other day when I heard someone bought a new car in Canada, and I said, oh, did they get a Vauxhall poutine? Vauxhall poutine. Okay.

Jeff, you love the metrics. You don't drive off the road. You're a safe driver. You enjoy it. Yes. All right. And you guys live in the Research Triangle of North Carolina? Yes.

Yes. Yes. All right. And you guys live in the Research Triangle of North Carolina? Yes. Yes. We are the one county that was 80% not for the cartoon man. Oh, okay.

Good job. How are you feeling? It's been a week. Yeah. Yeah. You know what? Let's all take a break and just have some fun and talk about your dumb fight for a little bit. Wouldn't that be nice? I'm sorry that I keep bringing this back.

That would be okay. I know that David Reese and John Kimball of the Election Profit Makers podcast, both Chapel Hill natives, have been really down. Wait a minute. I just said I was going to leave this alone. No, you can't. I can't help it. You can't. Let's talk about your Vox Alpoutine.

So where do you go for drives in the Research Triangle of North Carolina? Are you in Durham, Raleigh, or Chapel Hill? I just moved from Raleigh to Durham. And essentially, I'll either drive straight to the Research Triangle Park or around Durham or back to Raleigh. And what do you do down there? I'm a research associate for a Danish biotech company. Hmm. Oh.

Mad science. Wow. Fantastic. And how long is your commute? Now it's about 15 minutes. Used to be about 30. And Megan still insists on driving half the commute, even though she's not going to the lab? I think the dispute is mostly with longer road trips.

Those are the ones that I want to know about. Where are you going on road trips? So for road trips, we usually end up, or we've gone to Asheville, we've gone to the mountains in Virginia, Charlotte, and Charleston. Wilmington. In Wilmington.

Wilmington, Delaware? Wilmington, North Carolina. Oh, North Carolina. Yes. Wilmington. And Wilmington. Wilmington, Delaware? Wilmington, North Carolina. Yes. Right, okay. Yeah, I was going to say, one of these things is not like the other. It would take a long weekend in Wilmington, Delaware. I'm going to go see their Museum of Wilmington. Such a good museum.

People come from counties around. People come from counties around. Other places in Delaware. People come from feet around to see that thing. Sorry, Wilmington. I don't know why I'm beating up on you. Those are some lovely drives. Very nice. And I did that drive from, well, from Chapel Hill to Asheville. And I was pretty, how many hours is that? It's a little under four.

Little under four. And so when you drive in this hypothetical research triangle to Asheville run, Megan, how do you split up the time? Do you drive first or does Jeff drive first? I would say that maybe he would drive first and then we would stop at some point for gas and I would drive or the other way around. You'd close it out. Yeah. And why is it important to you that you split up the driving if Jeff is more than willing to do

more or almost all of it? Yeah, I think for me, it's more of like an ideal, like the equality of it. And just, you know, we've been dating for about a year now. So when we did our very first road trip, I felt like it was setting a precedent for how our future road trips over the course of our relationship would go. And I wanted to, you know, I didn't want it to be a thing where it just became a habit that he was always the one driving these distances. And then if we went somewhere really far, he would just do the whole drive. So I thought it would be good to set a precedent that we split it 50-50. Are you concerned that he's going to encroach upon your autonomy in other ways if you start letting him drive you around like daddy man.

I think I think that the driving the equality of driving is kind of a good it's a good way to have equality in a relationship. Like I think about my grandparents and in both sets of my grandparents, my grandfather was the primary driver. And so just, you know, like after one of my grandfathers passed, my grandmother had to learn how to drive herself around a lot. And so just seeing that and being like, well, I want my relationship to be a little bit more equal than that. I like what you're saying. Your electoral college, I mean, obviously, it's going to be, I'm going to decide the

thing because I'm a dictator. But right now you're winning the popular vote. Let me just put it that way. I think that sets a nice precedent. What do you do down there, Megan? I run a startup, actually. You run a startup. And do you go into an office?

I work from a co-working place. Oh, sure. Downtown Durham. But that co-working space is not in your home? It is not. Although sometimes I work out of my home. But no, it's about a block away from where I live. Yeah, we all live in the future. I understand.

I'm just curious. Do you have a commute as well? Do you have another car? I do have my own car because I go places around town, but I don't commute to work. And you guys live together? We do. Yes. You've been dating for one year?

Mm-hmm. Oh, boy. I feel good Mm-hmm. Oh, boy. I feel good about this one. Oh, boy. Popular vote, Tavis. We're just getting some news in from the popular vote. A big block of absentee ballots just came in for Jeff. We received some information.

I'm going to push on this a little bit, Megan, because I admire your let's keep things equal. And yet you know that this court tends to advise against people cohabitating when they are not married because you have all of the drudgery of a cohabitation and financial partnership with none of the protections of marriage. So basically, you get to fart in the same room and split the bills. But if someone bugs out on the relationship, then someone else gets stuck with a lease that they maybe they can't pay for and all this other junk. So how long have you guys been living together?

And why did you give up your free agency of your own place when you are maintaining your half-driving principles. Well, for me, we've only been living together actually for about two weeks. Oh. That part is reason. So it's not too late. Move out. Sure. Yeah, if this doesn't go well, you know.

But I wouldn't say that I see us living together as giving up something in the same way I would see Jeff driving me around all the time as giving up something. Because I feel like moving in together is still sharing a space equally. We both work to make sure we do similar amounts of housework and spend similar expenses. Two questions. Did one of you move into the other's place, or did you guys find this place together? Yes. I moved from Raleigh to her existing lease in downtown Durham. Oh.

So she's got it over you, Jeff. You could be out on the street at any moment. Now I'm on the lease, so I have legal recourse. And Megan, about how many square feet is your place, if you had to guess? Well, I presume you don't have to guess. I presume you've measured them all out and divided them equally amongst each other. Well, Jeff has because of the metrics. He loves the metrics.

He loves them. It is about 600 square feet. I told you he was going to know. See? He just did that right now. Boy, some overseas ballots are coming in for Jeff. Interesting. Jeff, do you split other household and other shared activities and duties more or less equally?

Like on total, yes. But we do kind of separate them by what we like to do. For example, I like cooking, so I typically do a lot of the cooking. She has a much higher standard of clean, and she does a lot of the cleaning. So in that sense, yes, I would say it's pretty equal, but it's divided by the things that we like. Oh, Megan, you just love to clean? You love to clean like the way Jeff likes to monitor the miles?

I like my Saturday cleaning listening to podcast time, but I would say I am not all that into cooking at all. Left to my own devices. I will just kind of eat popcorn. So I'm happy to have him cook and I'd rather just do the dishes. So that part is true. I know a wife who is very much like you. Mine. If I come back, if I'm out of town, I said, what'd you have for dinner last night?

A piece of popcorn. Probably should go with that. A pizza crust. A pizza crust. Yeah, exactly. So you enjoy your Saturday cleaning. Now, did you say listening to podcasts or podcast? I listen to podcasts. Yeah. Plural?

Plural. Plural. Yes. There are a few others that I've heard podcasts. Yeah. Plural? Plural. Plural. Yes. There are a few others that I've heard of, yeah. Oh, Jean, I'm going to have to look into this. I didn't realize we had any competition. Yeah, apparently. So do you feel satisfied?

I mean, Jeff is essentially saying there's a precedent set in your relationship. There is settled law in your apartment. Apartment or house? Apartment. Apartment. There's settled law in your apartment. Apartment or house? Apartment. Apartment. There's settled law in your apartment of people doing more of the chore they like and offshoring some of the chores they don't like to the other person. So what makes driving different? I would say that I don't necessarily agree with Jeff's precedent.

I would say it's an overall rule of thumb. For example, he will often do the dishes after he's cooked dinner. He'll start the dishes, even though he's not a big fan of work. You're kind of just being the passenger, especially now that like Siri or whatever will tell you where to go. So I feel like with driving, you're either the driver or you're really just not doing anything. So I feel like that's a chore that kind of just has to be shared. Megan, when you are a passenger, do you, on these trips, do you make a playlist? Do you select music at all so that's

actually yeah one of my points for sharing the driving is because i i was brought up in a family that did a lot of road trips and it's kind of always the default that the driver is the last you know gets the last call on whatever is listened to. So that is something that I feel when I'm driving, I feel very free to pick the music. But if Jeff is driving, I leave it to his music. So I feel less free to make playlists if he's driving. So you're the DJ, he's the driver? It's that famous Fresh Prince album.

But DJing only stuff that you think Jeff would want to listen to? More like I let him pick the music when he's driving and then I pick the music while I'm driving. Yeah, that's right. That's correct. The person who's driving picks the music. I have one more question, if you don't mind.

Oh, I apologize. Sorry, I was getting on a tear. No, no. Do you only take Jeff's car when you guys are taking road trips? Why not take Megan's car? No, we've taken each other's car. We've taken both cars, yeah. Who's got the better car? He does now. I used to.

Yeah. This Pawnee-Waunani marriage is getting off to the right start a lot of competition um so jeff let me ask you this question is it really not so much work to be the passenger why don't you take a break for safety's sake um i don't think it's necessarily about work because you know the driving experience is driving and then conversing with everybody that's in the in the vehicle and having fun on the road trip conversing with everybody's in the vehicle who who yeah usually i mean i guess it's just what kind of clown car are you driving how many i thought you guys were going on a romantic trip to hashville and all of a sudden you're picking up hitchhikers?

He's picking up people on the side of the road, just like the movie we're talking about. That's right. You're picking up crazy, deranged billionaires who aren't president? Singing jingles. Yeah. Yeah. So typically when we go on road trips, we don't listen to a lot of music. We'll either throw in a podcast and then talk about it later,

or we'll just talk about our lives and how things are going. So I don't think I necessarily agree with the DJing responsibility, I guess, of the passenger in our case, because typically we're talking and enjoying the ride together. I appreciate that, but I want you to answer this question as honestly as you can. Is it harder for you to be a passenger than it is to be a driver? For me, there are times where I do actually get carsick,

but I mean, I guess the general sense of a passenger, no. And are those times when Megan is driving? Are you saying she's a terrible driver? Just say it. Just say it. We all know why we're here. I have actually commented on one aspect of her driving. Uh-huh.

What is it? But she does correct it. What is the aspect? Every once in a while, she'll push the gas, and then she speeds up, and then it slows down. And she'll push it again, and it speeds up, slows down down and she pushes again and speeds up slows down and that's how cars go i'm glad your car works compared to compared to a sustained um going so like not using cruise control oh megan is there any truth to this accusation

uh that i don't use cruise control yeah i i don't always sometimes it's kind of annoying yeah i don't use it all that much because like don't always. Sometimes it's kind of annoying. Yeah, I don't use it all that much because, like, I feel like you just get into it and then there's, like, someone slowing down ahead of you and you're like, well. So, yeah, I don't really use it all that much. But what about the accusation that you do not maintain a steady pace? That you speed up and slow down willy-nilly? Yeah, I mean, that's probably true. When he points it out, especially because if it causes nausea among my passengers, I want to not do that. She does correct it if I point it out. I correct it, but yeah.

How does he point it out? You may notice on the dial there that you're now going 9% faster than is average for this road, and now you're going to slow down. Is that how it goes? Pretty much, yeah. No, he'll just be like, he'll just say it nicely, like, I think you're doing that thing. No, do a full impersonation. I'm you driving, and you be Jeff now.

Vroom! Eet! Vroom! Eet! Vroom! Eet! What? What are you looking at, Jeff?

Vroom! Eet! What is it? What do you want to say? It's just you're going fast and then you're slowing down a little bit. Then you're going fast and you're slowing down. Yeah, that's how cars work. When I do this, I go, when I do this. Jeff, is your opposition to this habit, which I'm not even sure has been proven to be a habit of Megan's, is it a concern about safe driving or is it a concern about the aesthetic of driving? Does it offend you aesthetically that she doesn't keep a steady pace? No, it offends me physically just because of car sickness oh yeah is is it is it a

physically and then um also some anxiety no i actually i i will concede that she does actually have a better driving record than i do but to me this issue is is an enjoyment of the process. Megan, why didn't you bring up his terrible driving record and his many, many pullovers? DUIs or whatever it is. You know, you got to work the oppo if you want to win this one. Well, I did have three primary points, one of which was safety. Let's hear it. Primary point one. Megan, it. Primary point one.

Megan, go. Primary point one was equality, which I feel like we've pretty much covered. I agree. Primary point two was safety. I don't think he's a bad driver, although I will say that I think most people, after a couple hours, their level of being good at driving decreases. And he does. He has been shown to be sometimes irresponsible, although not not someone I wouldn't be feel safe with. Specificity is the soul of narrative,

Megan. What do you talk? Don't don't dance around this. What what does he do that is irresponsible in your opinion? There was the mattress incident a couple of weeks ago when he was moving into my apartment. He had a he rented a truck and he didn't tie down his mattress and it went flying. So I guess I wouldn't say that's bad driving, that this may be bad judgment on the road a little bit. That was poor judgment. Was it an open bed truck, like a pickup? Yes. And you put a mattress in there and you didn't tie it down and it went flying up.

I sandwiched it, I thought, very tightly between the entertainment center and a dresser. You sandwiched it. Turns out not tightly enough. Yeah. Turns out a pickup truck is not a sandwich. Great. Put that on a tea towel. Sell it.

Sepatico.com. For all your Judge John Hodgman merchandise needs. All right. Obviously, someone could have died. Anything else, Megan? You had another point you wanted to make? Just the pleasure of driving. So even though I would concede that Jeff enjoys driving more than I do, back to the music issue, there was the one time.

There is sometimes on road trips when I really feel in the mood for certain music, especially Journey, because we listened to that a lot when I was a kid and we did road trips. Jeff doesn't really like Journey, so it happened once that we were in a road trip and I was just really in the mood for some Journey. And I put it on, but I could just tell he was not enjoying it. And since he was driving, I felt the obligation to not listen to music I wanted to listen to because the driver was just not feeling it. Whereas if I was driving more often or if I had been driving at that point,

then I would have just blasted Journey in. It's an active desire for equal stereo time. Yes. Jean, do people say stereo still yeah that's it's huge with the kids what would you call that thing that makes the that makes the sounds in your car uh computer time computer computer computer cassette cassette computer cassette time okay yeah you want equal music time? Mm-hmm. As much as equal drive time, because drive time means music time. Got it. Okay.

And how could you tell that he wasn't enjoying Journey? Was it the fact that Journey was playing? That's usually a tip-off. It was probably written on my face. I had previously said that I did not like Journey. Right. He actually took a Sharpie and wrote it on his face while he was driving. Did that also make you car sick, Jeff? No, I was driving.

Okay. When you've been nauseated in the car, though, have you ever just vomited all over Megan by accident? We'll see about the future, but not in the past. Oh, yeah. Well, it's going to happen. We live together now. It's very romantic. It's going to be a lot of vomit, you guys.

One question before I go into the trunk of my driving chambers, into the contemplation trunk of my Vauxhall Poutine. You have the same kind of car. There's a small mattress in there. Yeah, that's right. And it's not tied down. No. Jeff, so that I understand your case as clearly as possible, would you characterize your desire as an active desire for more driving time or a desire for less sitting around in the car time not driving?

Do you see what I mean? Like less passenger time or more driving time, which is important to you? Less passenger time or more driving time, which is important to you? I would prefer it to just be me as the default driver on long trips. So I guess that would be longer driving time. Yeah, but is that because you, an affirmative desire to drive more or a negative desire to be a passenger? Affirmative desire to drive more. That's all right. That is a poster in a dorm room somewhere.

Affirmative desire to drive more with a picture of a car and a champagne bottle. Terrible message. All right. I think I've heard everything I need to. I'm going to climb into the trunk of my Vauxhall poutine and lie down on my little mattress, and I'll be back in a moment with my decision. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Jeff, Megan, how are you guys doing over there?

Doing pretty well. Doing all right, yeah. Do you feel like you both represented your cases fairly, got your points out, got your mattress story down? I wasn't actually planning on bringing that one up, but yeah, I feel like I did address my three main points. I feel like there was one point that I didn't get to refute. It was the long distance driving where we essentially only take shorter trips and anytime we have longer distance driving, we usually fly.

And any time we have longer distance driving, we usually fly. Actually, last weekend we went to Nashville, and we flew, and it could have just been an eight-hour drive, and that would have been fine with me. Well, I'll try to slip the judge a note, but I'm not necessarily sure I can get that in. Stop shoving this note in my trunk. All right.

What is this? I can't even read in here. It's dark. We'll be back in just a moment with the judge's decision on Judge John Hodgman. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org. And they are all your favorites. If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network, boy, oh, boy, that would be fantastic.

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Yeah. I didn't even realize we had more plugs to plug. There's more. So I'm going to tease you some more. Very exciting. Traditional podcast style before we get to my verdict, which is going to be very provocative. You do not know how this is. I don't.

You don't know where this is going. I don't. So not only are you doing Church of Infinite You on December 4th, you also, your live talk show, The Show Show, is returning to Union Hall. Yay! Also in Brooklyn on December 7th with guests Baratunde Thurston, great dude. Aparna Nancherla, great dude. Everyone's a dude. Just a dude.

It's just a show about dudes. Aparna is a woman. Yes. And Baratunde is a man. These distinctions are meaningful to you. But they're both incredibly smart, funny people. Yeah. And you don't want to miss this one.

But if you have to, it's going to be on the first Wednesday of every month. Is that correct? It is. And you can follow Jean on Twitter at Jean Greasy. J-E-A-N-G-R-E-A-S-Y. And I'm also going to talk about Saturday, February 11th, which is next year, 2017. Maximum Fun brings very, very fun day to Chicago's Thalia Hall for an unforgettable day of laughs. I will be appearing along with The Flophouse, Stop Podcasting Yourself, Jordan Jesse Go,

Tights and Fights and more. It's like a mini compressed MaxFunCon in Chicago. chicago and the best part about it it's in 2017 so this dumb year will be over by then and we may all still be alive we'll see see what happens if it goes that far we'll see if society continues then we should all go to that then there's also max fun con and max fun con east 2017 tickets for both go on sale Black Friday, November 25th. That's racist. For info at MaxFun... Sorry.

African American Friday. African American Friday. Check in at MaxFunCon.com. MaxFunCon.com. And snap up your tickets for East and regular flavors of MaxFunCon. It's a good time. Yeah. All right. Now here we are.

Back again. Jeff and Megan. You know, I was pushing Jeff on this because I thought I was really getting to this crux. The crux that I guess is now an illusion. But Megan, you said that being a passenger isn't a lot of work. And I think that for some people that is definitely true.

But if you are a certain kind of dude who is obsessed with being in control and checking your stats at all time, and sitting in the passenger seat can actually be a fairly nerve wracking experience. And you feel like you're having your country taken away from you. And it leads you to some rather drastic symbolic voting that ends up ruining the country. So I'm just saying, just thinking about being in the passenger seat of the car makes me anxious. I like to be in control. And I thought maybe Jeff was that kind of guy. But what I've learned is Jeff mainly wants to avoid physical nausea and cultural nausea, which is to say journey. No offense. I like journey. Journey's

fine. Journey's fine. I'm just trying to make a joke. I like that silver beetle. That was a good time, Jean, in rock and roll, when you could follow the journey, literal journey. The journey. Of a silver beetle spaceship. Yeah. As it smashes out of an orb and then turns into a rainbow over album after album after album. It was a little story.

Yeah. I believe you. I just have a difficult time now whenever someone says, refers back to something like a time period as a good time. It makes me uneasy. We're going to make, what would you call, what kind of rock would you call Journey? Hmm. Bad. Okay, Jeff.

All right, Jeff. Megan, what kind of, what's a genre of Journey rock? It's like 80s pop, right? Right, pop rock. Pop rock. Pop rocks. Yeah, pop rocks. Pop rocks.

We're going to make pop rock great again. Yeah. And then, do you remember the video game? There was a Journey video game where you got to play the Silver Scarab spaceship or something. I did not know that. I know. Everyone's younger than me. How old are yougan 29 oh my god god what about you jeff 29 ah you split it evenly good job you guys oh i'm supposed to be doing the verdict anyway so i thought that that was going to be you jeff i thought you were going to be like me

that the thing you didn't want to admit is that you feel uneasy in an emotional way, not just in a in a carsick way when Megan is driving. But aside from your nitpicking about her zooming and de-zooming, I didn't really get that feel off of you. Instead, you're a guy who just likes to drive and not listening to journey. And you want to get as much of that as possible. And Megan, however, I really feel when you spoke about your grandmother learning to drive after your grandfather died, that happened in my life, too. My grandmother, literally in her 70s, when my grandfather passed away, needed to learn to drive. She had never driven to the grocery store. And there is something highly symbolic, more so than doing the dishes or cooking or whatever it is about that car. Because the car, of course, brought independence and autonomy to generations of Americans and especially teenagers who wanted to hug and kiss.

And for my grandmother to not even know how to drive was profoundly symbolic about what the roles in their very successful and happy marriage were. And when I make arguments for people to learn how to drive manual transmission, the argument is not just because I like driving manual. Do you drive manual at all, Jean? Do you know how to do that? Do you have a driver's license? I don't drive. No. I was hoping we could get through this whole thing without you bringing it up. Oh, wow. Sorry, Jeff and Megan, go drive to Asheville and come back. We'll be right here. We'll pick up with you in a second. I have finally been convinced to learn how to drive. I mean, you know, I grew up in New York and grew up in the middle of the city. When would you learn to drive?

How would you learn to drive? Where would you put a car? Why would you learn to drive? Well, I'm going to tell Where would you put a car? Why would you learn to drive? Well, I'm going to tell you right now. I get it now. I get it now. One, I think that it is an important symbol of independence, no matter who you are. Two, it's an important symbol of adulthood.

Yes. And three, now more than ever, you never know when you might need to get out of a situation. I was going to say, also, I need to be ready for the apocalypse and for anything else that, you know, I've got to get out of a place. So I would like to learn how to drive, not just automatic, like everything. If it's helpful, you know, I don't know if you have someone to teach you or practice with, but I'll happily teach you how to drive manual. Yeah.

It's one of my favorite things in the world. Yeah. It stresses me out. I advise people to learn to drive manual because, especially if they have families, because you never know what kind of car you're going to get if you need to get out of an emergency. You never know what car, or what if you're a car thief and you can't drive manual? Whoops. Now you're stuck.

See, I can hotwire. Can you? Yeah. No. But then I'm just in the car. Well drive manual. Whoops. Now you're stuck. See, I can hotwire. Can you? Yeah. And then I, but then I'm just in the car. A running car. Good job. You can listen to Journey. I could.

On the, on the cassette computer. On the cassette tunes. Jeff and Megan, you guys still there? Here's the deal. I, I myself was split right down the middle. Megan style. Deadlocked election. Who was going to be first past the post?

And I learned that Jeff put that mattress in the back, unsecured mattress in the back of a pickup truck. And if you had told me that you had borrowed a pickup truck to move, I would have said, fine. You don't rent a pickup truck. If you're moving, you rent a cargo van a windowless cargo van that is scary to people that's what you need then you can free candy van yeah a free free candy and puppy van yeah you put a mattress in the back of that a you don't need to tie it down

and b things go south in your relationship you can sleep in there for a while. There you go. I know you love to drive, Jeff. And I can tell that mission creep would soon set in if I found in your favor and you would be named default driver and never give Megan a chance to drive and listen to Journey. You want it too much.

And it's fine for me if it's a little bit unequal but i'm with megan on this one i can't let you be default driver because that that means you're default daddy and you're not each other's parents you're lovers in sin so i'm gonna find in megan's favor in this case uh and i'm also going to encourage you guys if you want to go on a nice long road trip all the ones you described are wonderful and those are all wonderful towns but you know drive drive north to new england drive to maine and uh split it up i think i think that's too far out of her driving range. Whoa. Oh no! Shots fired!

What? Maybe it's outside of the driving range of your electric toy car. I think he meant that I'd want to fly there. She would want to fly. That's all. That's all. Well, but you know what? You may rent a car when you get there. That's all. That's all. I'd drive there. Well, but you know what? You may rent a car when you get there.

Here's the deal. Maybe if you go on a long road trip, you can get some more time to drive, Jeff, if you negotiate and advance the hours of driving put in and how the stereo cassette computer is split up ahead of time in an acceptable way so that you're not doing it on the fly. But no way I'm making you default driver. Come on. It's time we all get woke. None of that anymore. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

All right, Jeff, Megan, how are you guys feeling about this? A little defeated, but I guess I get it. I feel pretty good. Yeah, we know Megan. We know Megan. You know, I'm excited that you'll get to have some journey journeys. And I think the idea of you guys splitting up a longer drive sounds great. You know, good luck. Thank you for joining us on the Judge

John Hodgman podcast. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience, one you have no choice but to embrace because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Hmm. Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try.

Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah! We are so close.

Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go. We'd like to give thanks to Ryan Byers for naming this week's episode. Are we fair yet? Thanks, Ryan. If you would like to name a future episode like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook, we regularly put out a call for submissions. If you would like to submit a case to the Judge John Hodgman podcast, you can do so at MaximumFun.org slash JJHO.

If you want to email us, it's Hodgman at MaximumFun.org. And that's not us. That's me. I get those. I get them. I look at them all. And I'm a little behind at the moment. I was happy because I didn't want to do it.

Yeah, no, no. I enjoy hearing from you. We get lots of letters and complaints and pedantic little nitpicks, and I actually enjoy them. And of course, cases. We need your cases. Send them right to me.

I review them all. All of them. Hashtag your Judge John Hodgman tweets. What's the hashtag, Jean? J-J-H-O. And check out the Maximum Fun subreddit to discuss this episode. More credits, Jean.

Who engineered this one? Oh, he's got a good name. Graham Youngblood. Whoa. Woo! He's a part of the Warriors at WUNC in Durham, North Carolina. And Paul Ruist. Ruist.

Ruist. Ruist. He's the Ruist. He really is. At Argo Studios in New York City. Our producer is Jennifer Marmer. Talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. A pickup truck is not a sandwich, that is all.

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