Judge John Hodgman - Big Gondola Guy

Episode Date: July 20, 2022

It's time to clear the docket. This week, our vehicle expert River Butcher joins us to discuss things that go! Cars, gondolas, and funiculars!  Click here to check out Gyles' gondola dispute deck.Make sure to watch River's new special, "A Different Kind of Dude," on Comedy Central's YouTube channel! And you can catch him on Freeform's Good Trouble!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Bill of Jesse Thorne. We're in chambers this week to clear the docket. And with me is a man with a vehicle with no doors, Judge John Hodgman. What vehicle are you thinking of? Don't you have one of those Jeeps where It has doors on it sometimes. It's true. Sometimes no doors, sometimes no roof, always a windshield, though you can take that off of the Jeep. Yeah. If it's a hassle, if you're tired of not being buffeted. Yeah. You know how you're driving along. I just wish I had some bugs in my eyes. Yeah. Well, I know I got you those motoring goggles for Christmas and you've been itching to use them. That's true. I have been itching to use them.

Yes, this is our long promised docket about transportation, planes, trains, automobiles. Actually, no trains. Well, a funicular is a kind of train. And also boats. I long said, Jesse Thorne, I would not do this episode until we had at least one funicular case and one gondola case. And guess what? We've got two of both. Thank goodness. We should have him on every other episode. We don't need to wait for these vehicles because he's a delight. His name is River Butcher, friend of this court. River Butcher, of course, comedian, actor.

You've seen him on Freeform's Good Trouble, which is coming back for a new season, right? This summer, right, River? That's right. Are you on this season? Hello, this is River Butcher. Yeah, they do it in like a two-part season. So I believe that the second half of the fourth season is what's coming back. Yeah, that was, see, that was what was

the problem with TV. It was too easy. It's too easy. Too easy. Make it hard. Yeah, make it a puzzle. Make it a challenge. I don't want to know when things are happening. I want them to just present themselves every now and then. Yeah, I don't want to turn on TV and see what you're showing. Make it a side quest for me. That's right. Maybe you have to figure something out. Maybe I have to catch it in a store window and then be reminded,

like, oh, I should watch this thing. Yeah, yeah. Like Dicktown, our TV show Dicktown, actually it premiered in a side quest in a reboot of Myst. It was very easy to explain to people how to find it. Also, sorry. sorry no that's okay i don't know enough about mist to make a joke i was gonna get into it but i don't i don't know enough because i was thinking about the movie the mist when you said that's where my brain went

let me tell you something river butcher about the mist yes it was based on a Stephen King novella. Read the novella. Okay. All right, I will. Side note about The Mist, the film starring Thomas Jane, featuring in a tracking shot is the rocket ride that is here in the Maximum Fun offices. I've taken many pictures of it. Okay, you're saying that the famous old-timey kiddie ride shaped as a rocket in Maximum Fun offices. I've taken many pictures. Okay, you're saying that the famous old-timey kiddie ride shaped as a rocket in MaxFunHQ is featured in Frank Darabont's movie, The Mist. That's right.

In the background because they go past a grocery store and it's sitting out front of the grocery store. I would say it is a form of transportation, imaginary transportation. Thank you for bringing us back. I'll bring it back. This is why I'm the transportation specialist analyst. But let me stray off topic just for one more moment. I mean, the topic being transportation. That's right.

Oh, no, this is on topic. Another mode of transportation is walking. We hate that mode of transportation in America. I will say that. It's true. But another form of transportation is running. Oof. And if you are capable of doing either of those things, may I advise you to run, don't walk, to YouTube.

Wow. Incredible. Check out River Butcher's new comedy special, A Different Kind of Dude, on Comedy Central's YouTube channel. Wow. Run, walk, or however you propel yourself, metaphorically or literally. Your Honor, that was incredible. Thank you. River Butcher, one of the funniest comics I know,

and the only one who's a former professional skateboarder. That's right. Thank you, Jesse. Another form of transportation is a Segway. Shall we move on? Wow. To our first dispute. I believe we're starting with cars.

Yeah, we asked everyone for disputes about cars initially. Then we broadened it to every vehicle. We have a case here from Marion. She says, my partner, Brendan, has a lot of rules about what makes a good parking spot. I do about 80% of the driving. But Brendan feels his role is that of navigator and that parking is more of a duet, less of a solo. Some of his rules for parking lots include not being too close to the store and other cars where you're more likely to get dinged, but also not being too far away from other cars.

I would like to choose where we park without any comments from Brendan. Brendan is trying to find the sweet spot in the parking lot, but Marion's driving. River, what's your take on this? What are your first impressions? My first impression is that I have to fully admit that I brought this case to my partner last night and was like, wow, I used to be like this. And she just laughed silently. And so I realized, wow, I am Brendan. So I'm seeing my own humanity reflected back at me through this case. Well, representation matters.

That's right. That's right. I am Brendan. Brendan is me. Well, representation matters. That's right. That's right. I am Brendan. Brendan is me. I do think that, look, my first response to it's a duet, not a solo was, okay, come on. But then at the same time, it's like, I live in Los Angeles.

Often I need help finding a parking spot because like it's high pressure and stuff like that. So I do think teamwork when driving is appreciated, but it's teamwork. It's not, I have rules and you, is appreciated, but it's teamwork. It's not, I have rules and you, the driver, need to follow them. Because I think that I am a person who would offer what I thought was helpful advice, but what I've realized after is not welcome. It doesn't make the person feel good. Backseat driving in the front seat is not it's not fun it's any kind of driving that is not in the driver's seat that's right that's right unless the driver says is obviously complicated can you keep your eyes out for a spot for me you know like then you know what you're you're just riding that is fully your job you're not the co-pilot you're not the

navigator you're not you notice especially now we have You're not the navigator. You're not. You notice one thing about- Especially now we have GPS. Like, come on. Right. One thing I noticed about airplanes when I've been on them. What is the deal with airplanes, Judge John? What is the deal with these airplanes? Apparently they have food on them now. Why?

Does the food need to get someplace? What are we, delivering food? The wind has to travel further over the wing and that lifts it into the air since when do biscoff cookies go on vacation biscoff cookies featured in in-flight snacks of delta airline delta still not giving me any money but what i've noticed is when those when the cockpit is open at the end of the flight and the pilot and co-pilot are in there just having their celebratory scotch or whatever they do, I noticed the co-pilot seat has a steering wheel in it. Indeed, all of the instruments are replicated because the co-pilot has a very specific job to pick up the slack when the pilot has an aneurysm or whatever. Yeah. Now, I'm not saying that that's not, we shouldn't necessarily have those in cars, but we don't.

We don't. We only have them in driver's ed cars. Yeah, exactly. Unless you want to, like, Brendan, you really got, and also anyone, including myself, who finds themselves doing this kind of behavior, you got to really look at the fact that you are acting as though you are a driver's ed instructor when you do that. Like it makes the other person feel as though they are incapable of the job they are currently doing. And nobody likes that, you know? Unless that's your thing, that's not very romantic.

Unless that's your thing. Yeah, unless you're into that. You could be into it. You could be into it. You could be into it. To be driving shamed is your kink. That could be your thing. It could be. I'm sure it's out there.

But it doesn't sound like that's her thing. Let me ask you a question. So obviously, and this goes to settled law, if you're driving the car, you're driving the car. You get to pick the music. You certainly can entertain other people's suggestions for music, but you have a job, which is to keep everyone alive. That's right.

And you have a choice of what your distractions are for that reason. And as well, similarly, you are responsible for bringing that car to a safe landing or parking in this case. That said, Brendan's rules. Do you have an opinion on where to park in a parking lot? I mean, I think- If you're the one driving? Yeah, I mean, that's a great question, Judge John Hodgman. I feel like I don't disagree with his ideas, you know? Right.

I just don't, I've gotten to a place now personally where I can't have rules because it makes my life very difficult because you find yourself going somewhere where you cannot meet either of those rules. And then that, for me at least, creates anxiety that I have to leave or something like that, or like it's not too close, not too far. And then if you live in Los Angeles, your only choice is to leave a four paragraph Yelp review about that parking lot that completely leaves out the actual business that the parking lot services.

That's right. And I used to be very, like, very concerned about my car getting dinged and all those things. And, you know, it just isn't that important to me anymore. Like cars get dinged. That's just what happens. That's what they're there for i would much rather uh preserve not ding my relationship then have somebody ding my door like i had that happen recently and i parked where i went you know it's like and i had this second thought when i parked in the parking

spot i was like i don't know about this spot like i had an intuition and then i came out and somebody had banged like re like i had to take the car to go get fixed. It was so banged up. But I was just like, oh, well, okay. You know, because like, it's a car. I just try and remember there's a thousand dollar deductible on my love. Right. And a 250 deductible on my car. So it's, let's, what comparison can we make, you know? But I understand his desire to prevent that. I get that. It's also an expensive thing. Yeah, well, maybe he should drive more often. Yeah, drive more than 20% of the time. Drive more than 20% of the time, Brent. Then you can put your ideas into action. Here's something from Rachel. When driving downhill in Northern California, my husband Jeremy shifts down in our automatic car to, quote, save the brakes, end quote. But he doesn't apply the actual brakes when we are picking up speed. It's scary to me.

I found articles noting that downshift braking is not a replacement for the brake pedal, as it doesn't allow you to come to a complete stop. Please order that Jeremy either 1. learn how to properly shift down when going downhill by taking a class, or 2. not shift down and just use regular breaks. You guys, this is a great time for me to jump in and let you know that I'm offering a downshifting class. Thank goodness. If you use code DUDE, you get 10% off of my downshift class available via Zoom. I'd take it.

I'd take it because it'd be a chance to hang out and drive around. Can I tell you what? I took a downshifting class relatively recently. As some Judge John Hodgman listeners know, I recently bought a tiny Japanese van from Japan. And this tiny Japanese van had a manual transmission, which I had not driven. So I took a couple of manual driving classes. You didn't know how to drive one? I didn't know. I mean, I didn't even learn to drive. I'm from San Francisco. I didn't even learn to drive until I was 20. I'm just clarifying. I was not being like, you didn't know how to drive a manual? You've never seen The Godfather? No, yeah. What the? I had never driven manual. So

I took a couple of manual driving classes, which was pretty straightforward. It wasn't too tough to learn how to drive manual. But one thing that I remain terrible at is slowing the car by downshifting rather than just putting it into neutral and using the brake. So let's explain for I'm sure a lot of listeners who don't know what downshift braking is. River, do you want to explain it? don't know what downshift braking is. River, do you want to explain it? I mean, I have only like a basic, you know, like just working knowledge of what it is, which is just simply that, you know, a manual transmission car has a clutch, a brake and gas and the clutch you press to shift in and out of gears. And so instead of using the brake like you would in an automatic transmission car,

which then senses that you're braking and puts the car in neutral, puts the engine in neutral, I should say, you are sort of doing that, except instead of going into neutral, you're going into a lower gear, which then creates compression in the engine and is sort of like if you ever hear that sound or see the signs on a freeway of like a semi-truck making that sound, that's actually engine braking. Like they have this implemented in their engine that instead of using brakes, it slows the engine itself down, which is better for the brakes.

But it's like more efficient braking in that you're not causing friction with the pads and the shoes and stuff like that. You are saving the brakes. Rachel's husband, Jeremy, is not wrong. So you talked about there's some compression in the engine. I don't know. There's some kind of magic in the engine. The Jeep that I have that has no doors sometimes is a manual transmission.

I learned how to do it on this thing. Well, actually, my friend Anna Henchman taught me how to do it on her manual transmission Jetta when we were in college. And she was like, once you learn how to do it, all you can think about is people wearing their brake pads out. Why would you ever touch the brake? Because something, something mechanically magic occurs when you're driving, say in fourth gear, uh, and then you drop the car down into third gear, the car slows, the engine slows. You've not touched the brake. You can't go. It's like self-regulating.

You can't go faster. Yeah. The engine is doing the work for you as opposed to you forcing the stop. Right. And you get into that beautiful third gear, the most flexible gear, my favorite gear, third gear. Most flexible gear. It really is. My favorite young adult novel.

My most flexible gear. My most flexible gear. And the benefits are, there are other benefits too to downshift braking, which are not only are you preserving your brake pads and the life of your brakes, which is important, particularly if you're going down a lot of hills, if you're living in a hilly environment. You know, those big trucks, the tractor trailers and stuff, they're super heavy. If they ride their brakes all the way down hills. Dunsky. Yeah. They're getting new brakes every week.

Right, exactly. Yeah. And even your car, it will wear down. It'll cause extra wear and tear to your brakes. But also, even if you're not going downhill, you can brake in a manual transmission car. You can brake by going into neutral and then just applying the brake. But what if something jumps out in front of you like a deer or whatever? Yeah. Or you need to maneuver around something really fast then you got to shove it back into

gear and hit the accelerator in order to do that so you miss a step and so your reaction time goes down and similarly and pursuant to rachel's thing if you're engine braking if you downshift braking even on a flat on a straightaway or going down a hill, and you need to stop fast. Because Rachel's absolutely right. You can't come to a full stop just engine braking. No. It's going to be a very long time that it's going to take you to come to a stop. Oh, yeah.

Because you can't drop from fourth gear to second gear. No. Because your RPMs will spike, and that's bad for your car. Super bad for your engine, which I would say is worse than brakes. Yeah. But if you are downshift braking appropriately, and then you need to come to a sudden stop and you hit the brake, you're going to stop faster than if you were just in neutral coasting and then you hit the brake. And what Rachel is also saying is true, which is that it's scary when you do it the first time you feel like the the engine makes a noise you can feel the the car doing stuff it it is a little

bit scary but yeah the engine if you're not spiking the rpms and doing it appropriately even though the engine will go are you sure yeah that's just the engine whining because the engine will go, are you sure? Yeah. That's just the engine whining because the engine can take it. It's fine for the engine to do that. But it's so out of the scope of normal driving at this point in 2022, you know, that people's people are not exposed to even even the way a manual transmission car feels as you're driving in it. Right. Right.

Exactly. Yeah. even the way a manual transmission car feels as you're driving in it right exactly yeah so i can see i i fully as a person who like loves driving manual transmission misses it every day i am i am personally fully on her side it's similar to the parking situation where um uh it's like it's almost the opposite like as the driver like you're saying john you are in it's everyone the opposite. Like as the driver, like you were saying, John, you are in, it's everyone's safety is, is to me, this is the same as if you were driving like a wild, but like you were just, you know, not you blowing stop signs and stuff.

Like if your passenger was like, I don't feel safe when you do that, then I would just not do it when she's in the car. I do it when it's just me, you know, having mastery of this fairly esoteric technique of driving feels really good. But it's not a reason to be like, oh, no, I know what I'm doing. Yeah.

You know, that's your job is still to keep everyone alive. And one of the ways that you can reduce distraction to yourself is if your passengers are not screaming. That's right. That's right. And I would also add, here's the thing, John, to just fold back to the thing. This is not a manual transmission car. He does not need to be doing this. gear shifting, which you can do. Like a lot of particularly European automatic cars do have a mode where you can control the gears yourself all the way through.

If you don't have that kind of car, you shouldn't really be doing this. You can get away with it. I gathered doing some research, like if you have a regular automatic where it's just like a park, reverse, neutral drive, and then they might have a low gear option. Two and three, yeah.

Yeah, you can sort of get away with it that way, but it's not really built for it. Yeah. This is really a manual transmission trick. It really is. And to me, I feel like I drove manual transmission for 19 years or something like that. I drove a manual transmission for a long, long time,

and now I have an automatic, and it has S plus and down. And I don't even mess around with that because I'm just like, I don't trust, like I knew what was up with my manual transmission. I don't want to mess with an automatic transmission engine in this way. With a manual transmission, you are physically changing the gears. That's right. You're in control of the engine a hundred percent. With that S plus or the L or whatever, for an automatic, it's a computer doing it for you. And to me, it doesn't, I don't trust

a robot. I don't trust a robot for that. I have bad news for Rachel. What's that? If she makes Jeremy take a class about downshifting, 100% it's going to be a race car class and he's just going to start driving like his car is a race car. No, because- Like 100%. The regular car class is not going to teach this. The advanced car class is about race car driving and he's going to want to drive his car like a race car.

That is, those are the two levels of class. Well, he can take whatever class he wants, but he doesn't need to take a race. It's not going to happen because we are taking Jeremy to school right now. Jeremy, you're doing it wrong. How do I know? Because according to Rachel, you don't apply the brakes when you are picking up speed. Do you know what's supposed to be happening when you're braking? You're slowing down or at least maintaining a steady pace.

If you're picking up speed, you're not braking. And if you're going downhill and picking up speed, I don't care what gear you're in. That's incorrect. Yeah, you're not doing the thing you claim to do, which is slow down. If you're speeding up, I hate to break it to you. Pun intended. You're not slowing down. Exactly. When I drive that Jeep, when I drive that Jeep and I'm going to the Tradewinds to get that really sweet parking space in the Tradewinds parking lot that I love so much that it always gets taken. But every now and then I get it, but that's a different story. And I got to go down that hill to the Fall River Bridge. What I do at the top of that hill is I pop it into neutral. I drop it down a gear. And I just go down the hill while gently tapping the brake to maintain whatever speed I'm at.

Because you're not supposed to be speeding up. And you should gently tapping the brake to maintain whatever speed I'm at, you know, because you're not supposed to be speeding up and you should be tapping that brake. You should be ready to tap that brake assisting what the downshift braking is doing. You should tap it from time to time, not merely to prepare for a sudden stop if you need to make one, because it happens and to maintain control and also to keep Rachel from screaming. But also one thing that does not happen when you're downshift braking, your brake lights behind you don't go on. That's right. So if there's someone behind you and you drop into, you know, fourth gear or third gear or second, if you downshift to slow down

and they don't see those lights, they don't know you're slowing down and all of a sudden you could be rear-ended. Yes. Great point, John. Another forgotten point of the engine braking. No brake lights, which is very important in deep traffic. Hey, you know, just add it to your curriculum at River Butcher's Stop School. The code DUDE at checkout.

You get 10% off of my River Butcher's stopping classes. Stopping and going. Well, guys, speaking of breaks, we're going to take a quick break to hear from this week's partners. It's a little something called a segue, John. Yeah.

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We're clearing the docket this week. Here's a case from Giles. My brother and I are gondoliers in San Diego. Ring a bell. I'm so excited. Ding, dang, dong. It's like when someone orders the special drink at the bar. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Go ahead, gondoliers. I'm listening. I have been rowing for five years. He's rowed for a little over a year. My brother thinks that when two gondolas

approach each other from opposite directions, they should pass on the right, just like on an American road. This is in accordance with U.S. boating rules. I think they should pass on the left, UK style, in accordance with Venetian tradition and boat design, especially in close quarters. U.S. boating rules can apply when a gondola must pass other boats, but in head-on, gondola-on-gondola action, please order my bro to pass on the left in the traditional or-to-or manner that Venice intended. River Butcher, you know all about gondolas, right?

Oh, yeah. Big gondola guy over here. Have you ever been to Venice, Italy, famous for its gondolas? I have not. I haven't even been to Venice, Las Vegas, Nevada. They got to have gondolas there. They do. Indoors. River did get his t-shirt in Venice, California, though. That's right.

And your name is River, for heaven's sake. I mean, I got to get on this. But that's a canal. They're for canals, right? Oh, you're right. Good point. Which is man-made. Rivers are not man-made. Artificial river man-made rivers are not man-made artificial river even this one not man-made in any case gondolas i i didn't know what this giles was talking about i guess they're first of all i had to get my head around the fact

i guess there's a lot of gondola tours in san diego san diego have canals yeah i took a gondola tours in San Diego? San Diego have canals? Yeah, I took a gondola tour of a submarine there. Down there. Alright, moving on. Close quarters in here. Clunk, clunk, clunk, clunk. Clunk, clunk, clunk, clunk. I asked Giles for some more information

and you know he sent a whole deck. He sent a series of slides. A whole character bible for this gondola situation. Oh yeah, i don't know if you can see this thing but this is a real slide show with some beautiful photos of gondoliers and one thing i did i have been to venice and it's a place that i love a lot i've never been in gondola but i like venice and one thing i didn't know about gondolas is that they're shorter on one side than the other so all gondolas are 35 foot,

six inches long. However, the port side is 10 inches longer than the starboard side. The left side is longer. Giles says the purpose of this oddity is that the design is thought

to counterbalance the rowing action of the gondolier so the boat is moved in a straight line. You see, what happens is the gondolier stands aft and to the right and rows with one oar in a stern sculling motion and that pushes the boat who in one it doesn't go straight forward it drifts to its left

and because one side is shorter than the other, aqua dynamically somehow, that sort of course corrects the boat, partly. I don't understand how it works, but it happens. Because they're such funny creatures, right? Yeah, exactly. But you have a drift port to the left. You drift to the left when you're piloting one of these gondolas.

And that means if you're in a Venetian canal and you've got a gondola coming at you, you want to pass it on your right. In other words, you want to pass it starboard to starboard, your right, as though you're driving down a UK road, a British road. You drive on the left-hand side, you keep to the left and the other gondola comes by the right because you're drifting away from each other rather than towards each other because you're both drifting to your respective lefts. Whereas it is true in U.S. navigation rules, if two boats of the same class are approaching each other head to head, they pass each other, according to the pictures that I was just looking at of gondolas in Venice, that one long oar on the starboard, the right hand side, does extend pretty far out to starboard. It doesn't just go straight back.

And I would imagine for that reason, it's probably a lot easier to be oar to oar than it is boat to boat to make enough room in a relatively narrow space. And I'm going to clarify before, and everyone, because I'm reviewing the slides, the oar is on the starboard side, but the gondolier, the gondolier stands on the port side. So he's standing all the way to the left, but this Orr goes all the way to the right, across the boat.

You'll all understand it when you look at this incredible deck sent in by Giles. Everyone's getting a copy. Yeah, look under your seat. There's already a copy there for you. Just to be clear, what investment is Giles looking for from the sharks? To not eat any more Orrs. Yeah. That's right. from the sharks to not eat any more ores yeah that's right uh you also have incredible photos of i i guess this is giles and his brother the two gondolier brothers of san diego which is the

rather more obscure opera uh by mozart in any case i love all of this, but yeah, no way, Giles. Do the U.S. rules. Sorry. Yeah, the reason is obvious. It's obvious why you do the U.S. rules. Unless they're the only two boats on the canal, they're going to crash into every boat they meet. You can't unilaterally declare that you're going to drive on the wrong side of the road. This reminds me of a previous case that did not have to do with gondolas, but had to do with flashing your lights and what that communicated to other drivers and someone being very stubborn about the fact that flashing the lights meant don't go when almost everybody else thinks it means go ahead. Yeah, because that's regional.

It's regional. Because that's regional. I mean, it's regional. It's fully regional. I think specifically to that guy's block. But other than that, you know, but like I get this makes a little more sense to want to push for this because it's a physical, you know, it has to do with the dimensions of the boat and how it operates. So like I hear that. But I think you guys are right that like you're in American waters.

So get with it. Fly a flag on your boat. Yeah. To be fair to Giles, Giles is only calling for passing on the right when it's or to, or when it's two gondolas. Well, as king of the gondoliers,

he has the right to, is it basically that he just wants his brother to submit to him? Yeah. Like how many more gondolas are there in San Diego? Probably more than I think. But, you know, I feel like they're doing this together at the same time, and it's really just a brother-to-brother thing.

Even if Judge Hodgman approved this situation, there would have to be a gondoliers meeting with 100% attendance to communicate this information. You gotta have quorum on this, and when are you gonna get it? Because gondoliers are all over the place. This is going to have to be a unanimous consent situation. That's right.

Giles has made an incredible case. I think he's absolutely right. Certainly, I understand why the tradition exists in Venice because it actually has to do with engineering of the boats. And a main mode of transportation there. And I understand that he's only suggesting that this happened when two gondolas approach each other in San Diego Bay or whatever. And I get it.

But I just think consistency of rules of the road. You don't want someone looking at these two gondolas passing each other one way and learning, oh, I guess it doesn't matter which way I pass. You know, just be consistent out there. And by the way. Hey, that's what I say. Doesn't matter which way I pass. As long as I pass. A different kind of

dude is available on the Comedy Central channel at YouTube. And sign up for my class. Also includes passing. Anyway, back to you, John. But Giles, for you, for you and only you, I will rule. If it's you and your brother playing chicken on gondolas,

then pass each other the Venetian way. Because you are right. But I think it is best to follow the rules of San Diego Harbor. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, it doesn't look from the photos of San Diego gondoling. We're talking about some pretty small canals here.

There's a lot of room. There's maneuvering room. You can get around each other. Giles is going to accidentally run into that one aircraft carrier that you can have a party on. They're shooting Top Gun 3 and he's gondoliering through it. Oh, sole mio. I'm so happy about that gondola dispute. Do we have another one by any chance? Do we have two gondolas passing in this segment?

Here's a case from Greg. My wife and I went to Europe in 2016 and visited Venice. She wanted to ride the gondolas. I did not. They felt like a cliche and a tourist trap. in a tourist trap. And I'm notoriously cheap. Still, I decided to go along with her till we got to the dock. It was going to cost 150 euros to ride the gondola. I balked. We ended up not riding.

This was a mistake. Now, whenever there's something that I think we shouldn't do, my wife reminds me of the time we flew across the world to not ride gondolas. We're hoping to return to Europe someday, and my wife wants to go back to Venice. I think we should maximize new experiences. Judge Hodgman, should we ride a gondola, even if it means we have to cut a different city out of our agenda? Hmm. Hmm.

River, you have a take on this? Oh, my God. I so have a take on this. Oh, really? Good. Go to Venice, put your wife on the gondola, pay whatever it costs, and go do it and have a good time. Who cares? Life is so short. Make your wife happy for once. Not only is life so short, the lifespan of Venice is getting shorter every minute.

That's right. The lifespan of water on this planet is getting short. What a steal. I do have one question, though. How much is 150 euros in American dollars? I have no idea. It's kind of in the one-to-one-ish range. Are you kidding me?

Yeah. You flew to Venice and you wouldn't spend $150? Yeah. You are notoriously cheap. Let's just say, let's say for the sake of argument it was $200. Yeah. In Venice, that's a San Pellegrino.

Cut out a little bubbly water and get on the damn gondola. Look, I've been to Venice. We went to Venice in 2018. Never thought we would ever go there, but we had an opportunity to stay in someone's apartment there for free. So we said yes. Saw those gondolas. I'm like, that looks like a ridiculous tourist trap. And we didn't do it. And I had no regrets because the city of Venice is absolutely mind blowing. But it's very small. We saw all of it within a week. And when we left, I thought I will never go back there again. Because why?

There are other places to go. Venice is a very special, short-lived place. I'm glad I went there there I got on other kinds of boats but I didn't ride a gondola and I and I felt nothing and then as soon as we landed back home I was like I gotta get back to Venice that is definitely a place you want to visit twice whether you go on a gondola or not remember but you have you ever wanted to live in a Miyazaki movie I can't can I admit something I've I've never seen any anime films at all. No problem. You have that waiting for you when you want. That's great. Jesse Thorne,

have you ever wanted to live in a Miyazaki movie? Great. Go to Venice. I'll just answer for you. Go. I already booked my tickets on the cat bus. I can't you and we did and so we went we went back we went back in february of 2020 wow and as we flew away italy shut down behind us wow we got a text on the plane doors closing yeah we could hear we could hear it all shutting down it's a really special place and it is a it is a tourist trap but it's one of those wonderful tourist traps where it's hiding a real place right beneath the surface. And there are really cool people there. And there's a really cool radio station that I listen to every night from Venice, Radio Caffascari.

It's the college radio station of University Caffascari. I love it. I can't wait to go back. I'll never get in that gondola. But God or whatever, damn it, Greg, that's me. If your wife wants to get in that gondola, get in that gondola. There will be nothing like it. I guarantee you the gondolas, the gondolas in San Diego, as great as Giles and his brother are, it's not the same thing. I also just like, I also just want to say, I do understand this idea of maximizing new experiences.

And I don't know how much money this, but you're capable of traveling. So I'm going to say that you can afford these things. I would just offer that perhaps maximizing new experiences, a new experience could be doing something you don't want to do for somebody else. Whoa. That can be a huge and just going like, oh, maybe this could be fun, actually. You know, because I want to throw out there like, what would it be like for your wife to not have to say that to you ever again? But it's bigger than that.

For me, it's bigger than that when you go, you know what? I don't want to do this. But this person really wants, because I've been her, you know, I've been on both sides of this equation. And when you actually go, you know what? You're right. Let's go do it. And like the, that experience is also a new experience. It's not just going to the places. And I think, John, you brought up a great point of like, it's also a new experience to go to a place you've only been once and be like, what is it like when we go again? You know, that's also fun. You know, like anything can be fun.

When you have a certain familiarity and you have your places that you like to go to, it is a different experience. like most places in the world, but Venice is one of those places where it's so rich that you kind of need to sample it twice. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I do. And it's still a new experience. But I like your definition of new experience is like, try going to Venice and not being a killjoy. That might be different. That's right. That's right. Let's take a quick break and hear about another wonderful show provided to your ears by MaximumFun.org. We'll be back in just a second on Judge John Hotchman.

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Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. We're clearing the docket this week. Here's something from Caitlin in Vancouver. My husband, Alex, and I used to live in Paris, specifically in the 18th Orondissement, famous for its hills and the beautiful church at the summit, the Sacré-Cour. One way you can visit this church is to take the Montmartre funicular, a one minute and 30 second ride. While living there, Alex refused to take the funicular, saying it was too expensive. Recently, we went back to visit with our two children, and despite the stroller we had in tow and their tiny legs, he still refused. and their tiny legs, he still refused.

I would like you to rule that the next time we are in Paris, we take the funicular instead of the stairs. Note, it costs one metro ticket. Un billet de metro. One metro ticket. Now, River, I looked it up. Yes. One metro ticket. Now, River, I looked it up. Yes. One Metro ticket currently, as of this recording, costs 1.9 euros.

So $200. Again, I mean, I'm going to go back to my old, you know, the Venice thing. It's like, come on. Sometimes, look, you're already there. You know what I mean? Like the money, spend the money, make your partner happy. You know,

like your kids are going to have a good time. Like at least do it once. And also like, yeah, you're carrying a bunch of stuff. They're tired. Get on there. Look, I know this is the exact same case,

but I love the fact that, that funiculars and gondolas are swappable in these cases. Yeah. Totally. Apparently like they're fungible tokens. That's right. But I love the fact that that funiculars and gondolas are swappable in these cases. Yeah, totally swappable. Because apparently they're fungible tokens in this case. That's right. Yes, they've plunged into the depths of. And I just don't get now a funicular, in case people don't know, is an incline railroad. It goes up a hill.

So, you know, if you ever saw the Grand Budapest Hotel, there's a little fakey model funicular that he filmed. Or if you watch the HBO Max series Perry Mason, there's a funicular that plays, almost I would say is its own character. Really? Well, because it's set in L.A. in the third, it's pre-World War II. And so, yeah, and it still exists it's right by the the central market or the downtown market the angels flight yeah that's right angels flight there's the famous fourth street elevator in dubuque iowa there's the johnstown inclined plane in johnstown pennsylvania there are three or four or five funiculars in Pittsburgh. They're wonderful.

I've gone on multiple subway trips just to take my children on that 90 second funicular ride. Yeah. I will. Look, I should have said this during the Venice one, but I'm glad it's coming up now so that I can say it now and it's retroactive. Well, that's the thing about funiculars. They give you another chance. They do. Thank you, John. Thank you, Judge. I think about this often. Now, the context of this quote that I'm going to give you is not what I'm saying. However, I use this as a mantra anyways. Anytime that I start feeling, because I find myself in the position of this husband, each husband, often. It is often my first thought, don't spend the money. You don't have the money. cheap be tight just walk and so

every time that comes up for me i think of the quote from don draper that's what the money's for every time that is literally what the money is for perfect role model don draper don draper gets me through all my scrapes i look look to him. And his great decisions overall. Overall through the course of the life that we experienced of his. But I think of that all the time. That is what it's for. I do too. I think of that all the time in the same context.

Like that's what it's for. Is it too expensive? That's what money's for. That's what the money is for. You know what we're talking about here? $16. It's not that much money. You guys live in Paris.

That's round trip. Maybe they roller skate down, in which case it's $8 on the way up. Well, we got to know how old these kids are. That's true. Well, if there's a stroll, I mean, here's the thing. I actually understand where Alex is coming from. Because if you are a couple living in paris expats living romantically in paris with no children i can see not taking that funicular you're you're you're

able to climb those stairs you live there you don't want to do what all the visitors do just taking that funicular you want to look down on them and go, whoa, that French style. That's how you act French. Oui, oui, oui. But when you transition into a new part of your life and you're visiting the place and you don't have every day to go there, you don't have all the time in the world. You have children. Every moment they're reminding you that you're dying. That's their whole emotional point. And those children are in strollers then accept that you're in a new phase of your life right you're in the funicular phase alex they

have tiny legs they have tiny legs caitlin shoot us your venmo we're gonna give you 16 bucks we're gonna pop you on the funicular i'm gonna buy you a free couple of funicular rides. Then Alex will have no excuse. Or then see what excuse Alex comes up with. Because I bet Alex might say, it's like, it's not actually the money. It's just I'm still a young man. I don't want to admit that I'm in the funicular phase of my life. It probably is something deeper than the money.

It's always, I mean, it's always something deeper than the money. I think that was part of the message of that scene. Yeah. I think that's what the message was. I think the message was a little bit that it's not. It's not the money. I want you to tell me how great I am. Exactly.

When I worked in downtown San Francisco at the Trust for Public Land, I worked right near the famous Powell Street cable car turnaround. The one where the tourists line up to get on the cable car. Love it. And I had a coworker who lived down the line from that terminus. He lived maybe a mile up that cable car line and he took the cable car to work. And that was the greatest thing ever as far as I'm concerned. I mean, he knew to get on at the next stop, not wait in line at the turnaround. The next stop, you can just get on. You don't have to wait. And you don't have to wait for a door to open because there are none. You grab any part of it and hang on and you're on the cable car. Exactly. But I mean, like a funicular,

the reason that it is so exciting to ride on a cable car is that they're really neat. So why not ride one every day? It's fun. It's cool. And how cool to give your kids that experience of something that, you know, here's the crazy thing about kids, John,

similar to what you were saying. Typically they outlive you. And so they might live in a world where they won't ever get to see those again. You know, like you have no idea what's in store for them. Like, so how cool. I just keep thinking about like putting little kids on that thing and how much fun they would have. And it's like similar to putting your wife on the gondola and her having the experience that she wants. Like you get to watch them have a good time and minimally give your wife a break, you know? In San Francisco, there is a famous streetcar. These days, they run these old streetcars on up and down Market Street in San Francisco,

the sort of big street in downtown. But when I was a kid, there was like a, you know, there was like the equivalent of a model railroading club for streetcars. And they would run these old preserved and restored streetcars on the J Church line once a year or twice a year for special days. And there was, there is one of these streetcars, it's an Italian streetcar that is open in the shape of a boat. And my mom and I, on those special Sundays when they were running those streetcars on the J Church line, would walk up to Church Street and wait as the old streetcars passed until the boat streetcar came. And we

would ride the boat streetcar just down to one end of Church Street and then ride it back. And that is one of the most treasured memories of my childhood. And you ruined that for your children. It doesn't seem that there are any funiculars, strangely enough, in San Francisco now. But there definitely were some, including the Fillmore Counterbalance. Oh. Yeah. The Fillmore Counterbalance.

I love that prog rock band. One of my favorite prog rock bands of all time. Ran from 1895 to 1941. Oh, I thought you meant the prog rock band. Yeah. It was one of the earliest prog rock bands. Harpsichords and stuff. Fronted by Scott Joplin. Yeah, it was the only barbershop quart earliest prog rock bands. Harpsichords and stuff. Fronted by Scott Joplin.

It was the only barbershop quartet prog rock band. There's definitely barbershop quartet prog rock bands, John. We've welded into existence now. Hey, Jesse, do we have another funicular case? Yeah, here's something from John. My wife, Jo, and I spent a lovely week in Germany and rode the funicular railway to the top of the... Wow. Now, I think we're both stumped on this one.

Merkurbergbahn. Merkurbergbahn. The mountain outside Baden-Baden. I think Merkurbergbahn in Baden-Baden has a wonderful poetry. I will spend some time repeating the phrase when any of my family mention Germany, which, as my son is learning German and we are choosing where to vacation, comes up more often than you would think. Joe finds my glee around the phrase Merkurberg, Bonin, Baden, Baden irritating.

I would like the judge to rule that I may repeat Merkurberg, Bonin, Baden, Baden with impunity as it brings me so much pleasure. So, look, I think I think we know how we're going. This is obviously funicular adjacent at best, but it doesn't mention funicular. And funiculars offer you a second chance. I think we're going to rule consistently. We've ruled so far. Like if you have a spouse who takes pleasure in a thing, don't deny them that pleasure. If it causes you no harm or only costs 150 euros or whatever it is. But there are some times when a spouse repeating something over and over again can become distracting. So before we rule, I did write to John and I said, just so that we can have the evidence, can you say Merkurbergbong and Baden-Baden into your voice memos two or three times?

And then I said, actually, do it seven times. So I think we have that tape. Jennifer Marmer, can you play that for us? Hello, Judge John Hodgman. This is the magical musical phrase Merkaburg, Barney, Barney, Barney. Merkaburg, Barney, Barney, Barney. Merkaburg, Barney, Barney, Barney.

Merkaburg, Barney, Barney, Barney. Merkaburg, Barney, Barney, Barney. Merkaburg, Barney, Barney, Barney. Merkaburg, Barney, Barney, Barney. Merkaburg barnim baden baden. Mokabug barnim baden baden. Mokabug barnim baden baden. Okay, that's seven. Have you guys ever heard of mockingbirds? They often infest bougainvillea, which I have all around my house.

And at certain times of night, if you find yourself surrounded by a male mockingbird who's looking for a mate, it will make a sound not unlike what we just heard until about two in the morning. You know what it reminded me of? Well, at first I thought of the Dave Frishberg song Van Lingle Mungo, which is just him singing the names of baseball players. It's a beautiful song, actually, a beautiful jazz song. But then I thought this is more like one of those early Steve Reich tape compositions, like different trains or something like that, where they're composing music out of the... But I would just say that like, while I enjoy that, I enjoy it when I have signed up for it. That's right. I, it feels as though, you know, I want to have respect for his name is John. Yes. Yes. For John's newfound mantra, like fully, fully respect that, you know, get that.

But the thing about a mantra is that sometimes, and most of the time it's just for you. And so while I, I feel like it would be in line for me to say, oh, he gets to do whatever he wants, which ultimately he does, you know, like laws are just made up anyway. Yeah. And we have no enforcement mechanism to this podcast. None whatsoever. You know, not even the actual government. But anyway, I do think that once your joy is beginning to irritate, because this is similar to the downshifting. That guy's downshifting because it brings him joy, but it's scaring the passenger.

So this repetition of phrase is bringing you joy, but it's at the cost of someone else's comfort and peace. And so maybe that's got to be an interior mantra from time to time. Yeah, if my spouse was just standing quietly in the corner going, Merkaburgbagen, baden, baden. Merkaburgbanen, baden, baden. I would be scared. Exactly. I would be a little scared. Yeah. John, I love it. I want you to say it all the time, but try to do it like in the shower when you're alone.

Mumble it to yourself on a long walk. Don't become a mockingbird in the bougainvillea. That's right. The bougainvillea is a kind of plant, right? It is. It's very invasive. It's that very fuchsia sort of bush. What am I trying to find? Thank you.

It's very thorny, which I didn't learn until I was living with one. It's quite beautiful, but it is everywhere in Los Angeles. And I prefer the Jacaranda myself. Yeah. I read that the best bougainvillea come from Merkaburgbon.

The Merkaburgbon bougainvillea. And I hear if you take a gondola to view it, it's much better. Merkaburgbon bougainvillea. Merkaburgbon Bogenwea. And I hear if you take a gondola to view it, it's much better. Merkenbergbahn Bogenwea. Merkenbergbahn Bogenwea. I gave you a new one, John. That's it. I hope that we can do this again sometime.

Oh, my God, yeah. And get, what are the vehicles we're missing? We had a plane one, and that's a good one. I'm holding it in reserve for you, River, when you come back. Okay, great. Hold on a good one. I'm holding it in reserve for you, River, when you come back. Okay, great. Hold on to that one. I would love to have some sort of like RV or travel bus based case.

Sure. That would be a fantastic one. Let's hear a case about cooking on the green tortoise, the hippie bus. Let's do this. That would be incredible. I rode that with my mom one time. It was great.

You went on the green tortoise? Yeah. Wow. Wow. Speaking of buses, I think there are probably some real tour bus disputes. Oh, yeah, I bet. That people have got out there. Tour bus disputes. Tour bus disputes. RV disputes. Motorcycles.

We haven't had any motorcycles on here. Yep, we've not had motorcycles. Sidecars. Sidecars, yes. I'd love to hear a dispute between rockers and mods. Bring your Lambretta disputes to us. Yeah, let's just put out the call now. More vehicular disputes so we can get River Butcher back here for another round of vehicular court. But until then, ride whatever you need, whatever form of transportation you can take.

Get it over to YouTube check out a different kind of dude on Comedy Central YouTube what do you got a website or something River? yeah I got a website it's riverbutcher.com spelled like you would think my name's just two words now that you're pretty familiar with so I don't think I have to spell that out anymore yeah riverbutcher.com

take the express train to that website and find out where River's going to be and check out Good Trouble on Freeform now. You know what? How about this? You got internet. You got YouTube. Go to that Comedy Central channel and watch a different kind of dude

because it's hilarious because River's hilarious. Thank you. It's right there waiting for you. You don't have to do anything. Just like Richard Marks. You have a phone in your pocket. Yeah, it's the Richard Marks of comedy specials. It's known universally. Richard Marks of comedy. And what about your social medias?

Where do we check you out on the social media? That's all RivButcher at RivButcher on Twitter and Instagram because you'd be shocked to find out that in 2021, someone had already taken River Butcher on all platforms. So a lot of people call me Riv now, which is cute. I don't mind it. But I only did that because I had to.

At Riv Butcher on Instagram. At Riv Butcher on Instagram and Twitter. I have a TikTok that I never use, but I use it occasionally. I think it's called a River Runs With It. That's cool. That's good. I don't have TikTok, so I never use, but I use it occasionally. I think it's called a river runs with it. That's cool. That's good. Yeah. I don't have TikTok, so I can't figure it out.

It's too much for me. You know, Judge Hodgman, I'm sitting in a room with River. Yeah. River has a tattoo of a dirigible. I do. We did not talk about any lighter than air craft. And for someone who likes Akron as much as you do yeah i really do i learned something new john and it was from tiktok about why they're literally called

blimps do you know why i do not i wish i could remember it word for word there's a great tiktok i will try to remember to send it to you but it's basically from there were two types of dirigibles when they were invented right and i think the think the first one, it's like A, linear, and B, limp. Like B, point, limp, and that's what stuck around. It's the way that they inflate. So there were two classes of dirigibles, A and B, and one is linear. One that had a frame or something like that. Right, which would be a Zeppelin or something.

Yes, that it already had the structure. Because a blimp is a frameless, wow. That's right. I literally spent my life in a place that is simply defined by having a blimp, and I never even considered where the, and I love the etymology of words. I had never even considered looking that one up. I'm just like, it's a blimp. That's it. It's just a blimp.

Akron, Ohio, Rubber City, blimp capital of the United States. Blimp capital of the world. It's not the world. Yeah. Yeah. Let's get some dirigible cases to us so we can make River Butcher happy. I would love that. The docket is clear.

That's it for another episode of Judge John Hodgman. Our guest has been River Butcher, our producer, Jennifer Marmer, our editor, Valerie Moffitt. Follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman. We're on Instagram at Judge John Hodgman. Make sure to hashtag your Judge John Hodgman tweets, hashtag JJHO, and join us on Reddit at MaximumFun.reddit.com. Submit your cases, big or small, we judge them all. This whole thing runs on you. Maximumfund.org. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.