Judge John Hodgman - Birthday Parties to the Dispute

Episode Date: July 29, 2020

Ann brings the case against her husband, Kevin. Ann says that Kevin is too judgmental about how she celebrates her birthday. He says that he doesn’t have a problem with birthday celebrations. He just thinks that her side of the family makes too big a deal out of them! Who's right? Who's wrong?MaxFunDrive is still plugging along! Thank you to ALL of our members for making this show possible. If you want to join them, visit maximumfun.org/join!Thank you to Rebe Staines for naming this week’s case! To suggest a title for a future episode, follow Judge John Hodgman on Facebook. We regularly put out a call for submissions.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. With me, as always, Judge John Hodgman. Before we get into the courtroom for this week's case, let's talk about the Max Fund Drive, which is going on right this very moment. Yeah, it's been such a wonderful, low-key, hot and hazy summertime, Max Fund Drive. low-key, hot and hazy summertime MaxFunDrive. We really wanted to reach out to you, mostly to express our gratitude for your hanging in there and remaining members.

Some of you are new members. Some of you have upped your membership. It's so wonderful. But obviously, it's a bit of an unpredictable time. So we tried to keep it maximum fun, minimum drive. And boy, oh boy, have the listener members of Maximum Fun really stepped up to the plate. And that was a great, that's a sports metaphor, Jesse, baseball. You like it, right?

Thank you. You're welcome. I just learned about it, but it seems interesting. Yeah. Thank you for stepping up and staying stepped. Also, I think a baseball term. And this is that great time when we get to tell you about all the things that we get to give back to you in the Maximum Fun Department.

MaxFunDrive is usually when we release our bonus content for the year. And we've heard from a lot of people about how much the bonus content is helping to brighten their days. So now seems like a great time to remind you that this bonus content is here for you when you join at MaximumFund.org slash join. Including this year, our bonus content, which is Judge Hodgman adjudicating disputes between Max Fund hosts. So we put out a call to Max Fund's talent base, which is prodigious. Prodigious.

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increased their membership, and everybody who's done something else to support our work. It's wonderful that you've done that for us, and we're very grateful. Yeah, we're going to say thank you by telling you about the thank you gifts later, and instead getting on with the case. What's it called, Jesse? Now on to this week's case, birthday parties to the dispute. Anne brings the case against her husband, Kevin. Anne says that Kevin is too judgmental about how she celebrates her birthday. He says he doesn't have a problem with birthday celebrations. He just thinks her side of the family makes too big a deal out of them. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference.

Oh, my God, that delicious smell, that intoxicating aroma. Oh, it's an enchanting emanation. Judge John Hodgman, that smell can only mean one thing. Podcast! It's a podcast that's just cooling on that windowsill oh my god or whatever we have got to get that podcast oh you said it but how oh there's got to be a way bailiff jesse i got it i'll just. I'll just start the podcast. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, swear them in.

Anne and Kevin, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that, as we record right now, he has a four inch scar on his forehead because he was laughing too hard at a British sitcom? I do. I do.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. Anyone who needs to hear that story can ask me in person someday in any case uh ann and kevin you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment and one of yours favors can either of you name the piece of culture that both bailiff jesse thorne and i expertly performed as i entered the courtroom and let's start with you okay i'm gonna say that it's a scene between gilligan and the skipper from gilligan's island a sherwood schwartz joint all right sherwood a schwartz excuse me a state of sherwood a schwartz okay yep i'll put that in the guest book that's a that's a solid guess three hour tour kevin what's your guess i'm going to guess it is a original looney Tunes Bugs Bunny Elmer Fudd cartoon circa 1958.

Oh, too bad. It's 57. I appreciate your specificity. I will put that in the guest book. But of course, all guesses, however specific, are wrong. It's a much more recent piece of culture. Jesse Thorne, do you want to tell them what it is? Yeah, that is probably my favorite comedy sketch that I've ever seen performed live. It's one of the original sketches by the sketch comedy group, The Birthday Boys.

Get it? Birthday? Birthday? Okay. And I don't know what they called it. Obviously, a stage sketch doesn't exactly have a title card at the beginning of it. But I have always referred to it in my mind as, Ooh, gotta get that pie!

Yeah, in the sketch, they're not looking for a podcast. No one's looking for a podcast in this life. They're all over the place. They're much harder to get than pies cooling on a window sill. But there is a recording of that shot at the UCB Franklin Theater from 2008 that I would highly recommend featuring our friend Mike Mitchell of the Doughboys, plus all the birthday boys. Do you know who wrote that particular sketch, Jesse? I don't know. I would imagine Tim Kalpakis wrote it because it is a very Tim Kalpakas-y sketch comedy premise. But I think they all work together on those sketches.

I saw that at Sketchfest NYC. I was there to do The Sound of Young America, the precursor to Bullseye. Yeah. And they put that pie up on a ladder and they all got underneath it and said, Oh, oh, we got to get that pie. And I can't even look at a pie without thinking about that. All right. That was from the birthday boys. And so we now roll into the birthday. Well, you know, person and yes. Would it be all right to say birthday woman? Sure. All right. Yep.

Would it be all right to say birthday woman? Sure. All right. Yep. Now we roll into the birthday woman who is having a dispute with her husband, Kevin, over how to celebrate her birthday. Anne would like to have a party and celebrate her time on earth. Kevin is like, that's boring.

I don't want to celebrate you. I've got that right. That's pretty much it. That's pretty much it. Yep. Anne, you come to this court seeking justice. Tell me about the dispute. Okay. Well, every year around the this court seeking justice. Tell me about the dispute. Okay.

Well, every year around the time of my birthday. Which is when? February 3rd, day after Groundhog's Day. February 3rd. Yes. Groundhog Boxing Day. Yes. That's right.

I like that. I will use that forever. Well, I just stole from the birthday boys, so I guess you can steal from me. I guess I could ask for permission rather than just declaring. But anyway, I didn't ask permission. So I owe the universe one. I pay it forward. Okay,

perfect. So yes, every year around February 3rd, my birthday will come up the way that my birthday is scheduled. And due to my profession, my birthday always gets crowded out by events, which is fine. I'm an adult.

And actually since long before I'm an adult. And actually, since long before I was an adult, I've always had to kind of reschedule my birthday, which is fine. We should explain that your profession is groundhog wrangler. Yes. Yes. I'm very exhausted. I'm exhausted on the third. What are you, the mayor of Punxsutawney? Exactly. What is your profession? I am a singer and a voice teacher oh and february is your busy month

it kind of well you can laugh but okay i i was and i apologize yeah no it's fine um well yes and why i wear like a lot of professional musicians i freelance doing lots of different things and one of the things i do is music education. And there are so many festivals at that time of year. It's just there's no brainer that there's going to be a festival on or on the weekend of my birthday every year. Not anymore. Oh, I know. I can really celebrate this year. Looking forward to silver lining. Yeah, this coming February is probably going to be pretty clear for you. If I rule in your favor, Kevin's going to be very sad because it probably going to be pretty clear for you. If I rule in your favor,

Kevin's going to be very sad because it's going to be six more weeks of birthday for Anne. So yeah, anyway, well, and then not to mention, it almost always coincides with Super Bowl weekend. So with those different icebergs floating in there, I always kind of have to plot when are we going to do this? So it does seem like it always comes up as a calendar discussion. You can't just observe it on the day. And every year I feel like Kevin gaslights me and tries to convince me that adults do not celebrate their birthday and makes me feel like I'm somehow weird or entitled or princessy that I want to celebrate my birthday. Before we get into that serious accusation against Kevin, how do you like to celebrate your birthday? Like, for example, this past February.

I will give it to you. Like, just tell us a story about how people used to get together. Yes. In the before time. In a restaurant. Yeah. How did they do it, Grandma? How did they celebrate birthdays? So my birthday this year on Groundhog's Day, I closed a show. I had my last performance of a show.

And so then my birthday was a Monday. And Monday is my big, big, big marathon voice teaching day. And I hadn't seen my students for about three weeks because I had been in a run of a musical and I needed to rest my voice. And so I could not reschedule them yet again. So on my birthday, I went to the dentist in the morning, and then I taught nine voice lessons back to back. And that was my birthday. So on Tuesday, we had rescheduled with our daughters. We have two daughters. And I feel like it's part of my job as a mom to show them how birthdays are traditionally observed in my culture anyway. And so we went to a make your own pizza restaurant and had pizza and came home and had ice cream. My parents live less than a mile from us. So they tagged along. It was great. And I think simple

presents were exchanged. It was not a big deal. And then what I wanted for my birthday, Kevin and I did not want to spend any big money on a gift for me. What I wanted, because I had just finished a show, is Kevin and I went out for dinner the following Friday night. And that was pretty much my birthday. So two celebrations. And you said gifts were exchanged. Were you passing out gifts on your birthday? Well, I mean, I was there.

No, I'm just kidding. No, I was, no, I did not pass out gifts. Gifts were transferred. Gifts were transferred. Yeah, that's a better way to say it. Got it. Gifts were accumulated by you. Yes, yeah.

Ryan, I got you. You went to make your own pizza with your daughters and your parents and my husband kevin was there too kevin what if i ruled you didn't have to do that what if i ruled you didn't have to go to make your own pizza well i mean i like pizza because what i'm hearing is there there are two birthday celebrations right one family celebration and one personal celebration between the two of you right is that is the number of celebrations the issue here or what is your beef yeah thank you good here's the thing i think that there is holy moly we got we got alec baldwin on the line it's a little public radio joke sorry do you think i'm alec baldwin because i'm handsome is that what

because you said yes that's because you're handsome yes oh it's not because you said the name of his public radio show but rather because you're as handsome as famously handsome person alec baldwin your steely blue eyes also because you were great in glenn gary glenn ross the character that was added for the movie. What is an appropriate number of celebrations for an adult's birthday, Judge? Must we celebrate it on the day and then have a family celebration and then

if I'm recalling correctly, Anne also went out to lunch with a colleague to celebrate her birthday a third time. Now, that's fine. But what is my responsibility and an appropriate number of celebrations for an adult's birthday? I understand and accept that for a kid's birthday, you know, there's parties. You might go to, you know, Chuck E. Cheese or whatever.

But for an adult's birthday, is there a limit? Like, should we celebrate multiple times in multiple ways? And if so, how many, how often? And what is my responsibility as a loving husband? Which part of this, Kevin, was the most difficult lift for you? Was it when you went out to dinner with your children or when you went out to dinner with your wife? Right, thank you. Yes.

Because those are the things I'm hearing that you did. These are things I do throughout the year in better circumstances. Right. So it's not the act of those things. Those things are enjoyed by most normal people. It's that this is, I think, one of the conversations that Anne and I have,

and I think why she brought this case against me, is the amount of planning and conversation that has to go into the birthday festivities, right? So I don't mind going out to dinner with my kids or my wife. In fact, most of the time I enjoy that. It's the planning that takes place and the conversations that must take place. Like you have to decide what toppings to put on the make your own pizza.

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Basil. The kids aren't going to like that. They're not. Anchovies. Anchovies. Pepperoni might be too spicy.

Some kids don't like pepperoni. What's their problem? Correct. Correct. That's my question. That's why I'm standing before the court today is what's the appropriate number of celebrations for an adult's birthday? And let me be clear. I love my wife and I am grateful that she continues to celebrate birthdays and I want her to continue to do so for as long as humanly possible but how many

celebrations how many celebrations is an appropriate number so let let the record show that i can see the litigants because we are now using teleconferencing to record these let the record show that ann's jaw dropped in disbelief and i'm not sure whether it was dropping in disbelief at Kevin's contention that he doesn't mind how many birthdays she, he doesn't mind how she celebrates her birthday, or his contention that he loves her. What were you responding to in disbelief? I guess it was probably, I think what he, now that I'm reviewing it in my mind, he might have just meant he would like me to not die. And he'd like me to celebrate multiple birthdays. But it's the fact that he used the word celebrate and said, he'd like me to celebrate multiple birthdays but it's the chance the fact

that he used the word celebrate right said i'd love her to celebrate her birthday that has never been uttered and i sure i i don't want to give kevin fuel for his fire but i will say the other thing that he touched on is that i do think he's irritated by the amount of planning and discussion of planning. That even though they're very small events that don't warrant this much discussion, I think this is something that he brings up about me and, dare I say, the female line of my family of origin is the planning. Okay, so this goes back into your ancestry. Tell me about the family traditions and tell me about the planning. Let's hear Kevin make the argument. May I note, by the way, I don't know where you guys are in the world, but I do know that, Ann, you're in a living room.

And Kevin, you're in your shirt closet. No, I'm in a teaching dungeon. This is our basement. It's freezing down here. There's spiders. That's where you do your remote teaching. And Kevin, you're in the closed closet of your house. Right.

Also, podcast studio. Right. Where are you both in the world? Yeah, we live in Spokane, Washington. All right. Cool. So, Kevin, I'm going to let you describe your wife's family's birthday traditions and planning. But before I do, quick question.

In that closet behind you, you got a petard in there? Because I want to see you hoist yourself up on it. What's a petard, Judge? I don't even know. I don't think it's even something that would be in a closet. All right, let's hear it. What's the complaint about the planning? What's the complaint about Anne and her family?

So, thank you, Judge. My wife's family is what I would classify as very planny. All right, let me give some examples. It's a planny fam. That's exactly right. My wife's mom and her aunts, so my mother-in-law and my mother-in-law's sisters, are so well known for their planning abilities that in fact we and and and i have both done this we make fun of how far in advance they plan things so right now we're we're taping this podcast in the summer it would not surprise me to get a text or an email from one of my from my mother-in-law or one of my mother-in-law's sisters to start planning the thanksgiving meal or the christ Christmas holiday meal.

Like, they just think that far in advance. And I'm talking, you know, spreadsheets and multiple emails. And in fact, one aunt goes so far as to say, when we gather, please make sure you have, you know, who's bringing the salt? Who's bringing the pepper? Are there any additional utensils that need to be brought? How many packets of salt and pepper? Because we're

going to assume that each person may use one to two packets per day and then you know have some equations where it's all worked itself out i have a i have a lot of questions so this level at as you can see judge this level of planningness is well it can be overwhelming at times so here's a couple of things. One, I have to live up to this level of planning this, the level of detail and care, if we can call it that, that goes into planning these events. This is a lifetime of planning and care

that my mother-in-law has given to my wife. And now here I am just trying to be a loving husband, just trying to do some nice things for my wife, and I can I am just trying to be a loving husband, just trying to do some nice things for my wife. And I can't possibly live up to it. So what happens is there's multiple celebrations. There's multiple plans to be made, multiple decisions to make. And it's too much. It's too many. It's too much and too many. I think there's just it's an it's maybe oppressive amount of birthday that has to be planned and celebrated every year. Kevin, what are some examples of decisions that you had to get involved in planning for this birthday that we heard described a dinner out with just your wife and a dinner out at a family restaurant with your children and in-laws. Yeah. Tell me about the spreadsheet for make your own

pizza. Well, first of all, we have to decide when and where we're going to go. And that could take several phone calls or texts or emails. What day of the week is best? What time of day is best? And then what restaurant. Because there's, as in I think probably most American families these days, certain dietary restrictions, right? Who's eating gluten and who can't eat gluten and sugar and not sugar. Right, right, right. So what restaurant we're going to go to, what time we're going to go there, and who's going

to drive what vehicles. And here's the thing. We ended up settling on a restaurant that is literally walking distance from our neighborhood. And it took several different conversations to make sure that all of it could happen. Were you party to these conversations? I was party to many of these conversations, yes. Why? Thank you.

Thank you, judge. Thank you. I'm not going to rest my case, but I feel vindicated. Thank you. Thank you, Judge. Thank you. I'm not going to rest my case, but I feel vindicated. Thank you. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join. And you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning, the experience of learning causes a sound to happen? Let's hear the sound.

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spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In. Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right? Yeah, from the restaurant Kraft. And did you know that most of the dishes at that very same restaurant are made with made in pots and pans? Really? What's an example? The braised short ribs, they're made in, made in. The Rohan duck, made in, made in. Riders of Rohan, duck. What about the Heritage Pork Shop?

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at a very reasonable price. Yeah. If you want to take your cooking to the next level, remember what so many great dishes on menus all around the world have in common. They're made in Made In. Save up to 25% this Memorial Day from the 18th until the 27th, visit madeincookware.com. That's M-A-D-E-I-N cookware.com. And why was Kevin part of these conversations? He doesn't care. Well, I would just say that his part in the conversation, and I mean, I guess he can counter sue for me to not do this, was for me to go, OK, my parents want to know if we want a carpool over there. Do you care? OK, you don't care. OK, mom, we'll just drive our own car. Like that's so I could just make, you know.

Have you ever lobbed that kind of information at Kevin where the answer is, do you care? Has he ever said, I do care? I'm trying. But the records show Kevin's in kevin's in his clothes closet shaking his head no that's well kevin does not care he looks like my dog coco if she caught a squirrel yeah yes i think that the overall marriage history of all plans any decisions ever the answer would probably be in the single digits, the number of times Kevin has had an opinion or cared about what we're going to plan or do.

So you're looping him in as a courtesy? Well, yeah. And I want to grow with him in our marriage. So I feel like it'd be good for him to know what's going on. And it sounds like you also want to honor your family tradition. Planning makes me happy. I'm not going to lie. I would. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, tell me about that feeling when you're planning. Well, for sure. I will absolutely 100% stipulate to some control issues. You betcha. I got it big time. And so there is some security in feeling like you have some sort of control over your life. I know it's an illusion, but don't tell my conscious self that. And then the other thing is that I think it's fun.

And I don't mean to interrupt you, but just don't let your conscious self read the newspaper. Oh, I know. Give it a year. I know. I know. I know. Yeah, no. And I think the other thing is, I just think it's really fun to try on different possible adventures. And even if the adventure is just, should we go to this pizza restaurant where you pick your own toppings? Or should we drive out to another part of town and go to this Asian fusion restaurant

we like to go to? I just think it's fun to consider possibilities of future plans i think it's fun to talk about kevin do you take pleasure in in planning yourself no no sir none at all not even your own like shirt wearing schemes i am only saying that because you're your background by some beautiful shirts no i no in fact i will you let please let kevin answer the question man i'm sorry you're part of my plan don't worry i'll get back to you i don't like i don't like plans i'm not i don't avoid them um but the conversations especially with my wife's family around planning is significant is significant is detail oriented

and sometimes are around details that just don't need it's not important for example what shirt am i going to wear tomorrow or later this week especially in the time that we're living it doesn't matter what you wear ever right we're living in very specific times true but what i'm just trying to ascertain is that you know because i feel and i like to plan but when other people are planning not only does it annoy me because those plans are going to be wrong and i should be making them but since they are going to be wrong because i'm not making them, I'd rather not know about them and just be told what to do. Do you know what I mean? So I'm asking you, like, you obviously seem completely disinterested in the planning hobby, the back and forth and calls and texts and emails that belongs to Anne and her side of the family.

And I just want to verify that for yourself, you take no innate pleasure in planning for yourself either. Correct. I do not. I do not. This is not a situation where the crux is you feel like you could pick a better make your own pizza restaurant. No. And you're mad because you're not given that. You feel like that's being taken away from you.

Not at all. Not at all. In fact, just tell me when and where to show up and I will show up and be right happy and celebratory about it which make your own pizza restaurant we can buzz market now because all these businesses need help which make your own pizza restaurant in spokane did you go to well here in spokane there's a restaurant called mod uh which is an acronym for made on demand mod pizza yeah see and because i got five in the spokane area i just looked up five better make your own pizza restaurants you made a big mistake sorry huge also it would have been a lot easier i mean just thinking because i know you could walk from your neighborhood

i could have uh plotted through a much better carpooling option than the one you did i'm sure sure you could just i'm just looking at the map of Spokane right now, and it's like a beautiful mind up in here. I'm seeing equations. I only go to rocker, make-your-own-pizza restaurants. Right. But, you know, we're held together by our Dr. Martin's boots. It took me a long time to get that joke, Jesse.

Yeah, it was barely a joke. I mean, joke even seems generous. Are you a mod or a rocker? All right. So, Kevin, how do you feel about your own birthday? Do you celebrate it? When is your birthday? Do you know?

My birthday is in July. July 30th is my birthday. Oh, coming right up as of this recording. Yes, yes. What are you going to do? What's the plan? July 30th is my birthday. Cool. Coming right up as of this recording. Yes. Yes. What are you going to do? What's the plan? Well, we're going camping.

My family and I are going camping because that's the time that we could get away and we're going to go to the woods and sleep outside. Nothing goes better without planning than camping. Just a spontaneous. Let's see. What do I need? What I'm wearing? Maybe this flashlight, a pen. That's pretty good. Let's go. Right. Yes. To answer your question more generally, I don't have a need to celebrate my birthday. I like it to be acknowledged like, hey, you were born. Good job. But we don't have to have parties. I don't get it. I don't get why some people make a big, big deal about birthdays, especially as an adult.

Yeah, you opened your arguments with a kind of rhetorical question. How many birthdays isn't appropriate for an adult to celebrate? Yes. And I chose not to answer that question because i a it was rhetorical and b this podcast is not about my making a moral judgment it is my making a practical judgment about whether or not one of yours behaviors is causing the other one hardship that needs to be addressed but let's go into the realm of the purely intellectual. In your mind, Kevin, should adults celebrate their birthday? Is there something unseemly about adults celebrating their birthday to your mind?

In general, no. To be more specific. Specifically my wife, yes. Well, no. I think I'm reacting to a couple of things. I'm reacting to people who make their birthdays a huge deal like my wife does not do this and so i will admit and uh state that for the record but there are there are some people who will say not sure we'd be here if you didn't okay

there are some people who say like it's my birthday week or it's my birthday month and there's multiple celebrations and they'll, you know, get on social media or whatever and share like, it's my birthday week and multiple celebrations and multiple pictures. I find that unseemly. I think that's just too much. Too much. But in general, no, I think that adults are, it's good to celebrate milestones. Good job. You've survived another year on this planet, which lately is a feat.

It's not getting any easier. That's for sure. It's not. But I think the people that put too fine a point on celebrating their birthdays, I could do without that. I'm going to admit a little bit of bias. I'm not going to recuse myself. But I do have a certain bias.

It's like we've had some birthday week conversations on this podcast before. And there is a little bit of an internal cringe for me when people seem to be celebrating themselves that hard. I get it. But none of those people are married to you. And my question is, Kevin, do you think that, say, this last birthday was too much? Was it too much? Honestly, you're under fake oath. I'm not talking about the planning. That's a separate issue.

I'm talking about the celebration of your wife's birth. Did she overdo it in your mind? We came right off of that. We went to go make your own pizza. And you said some adults go to Chuck E. Cheese. And I was feeling like, oh, yeah, there's a there's a thin line between make your own pizza and Chuck E. Cheese. And Kevin is blurring that line on purpose. I felt that gaslighting. It's gaslighting. Was that? Typically that line is defended by a series of animatronic musicians. Was it too much, Ken? This year, no, it was not too much

because I will acknowledge and admit that the time of year that Anne celebrates her birthday is very busy. There's multiple things going on. And so it is appropriate and good to find some time to acknowledge and celebrate your birthday. This year, it was perfectly fine. I feel I don't I don't believe you.

I'm sorry. I'm holding you in contempt of court. I think you are concerned. I'm sorry. I'm holding you in contempt of court. I think you are concerned. I don't think we would be here if you didn't think it was too much, a little bit too much.

I mean, you opened your argument with, I don't think adults should celebrate their birthday in a certain way. Why would we be here if you didn't have this feeling about your own beloved Dan? She knows you love her. I know you love her, but this had to have been a somewhat too much or else we wouldn't be here. Let me ask you this question. Yes.

If you had been offered the opportunity to not go to Grown Up Chuck E. Cheese, but just take your wife out to dinner for her birthday, would you have taken that opportunity? Yes, without question. No hesitation. Okay, see? Yes, without question. No hesitation. Okay, see? Now I believe you. Thank you.

Let the record show Anne is speechless. No, I'm trying to be respectful and not talk, but I got things to say. Well, the plaintiff may respond. Well, I think for me, the reason that I brought the suit in the first place is Kevin generally, well, not generally, always is willing to hang out and do pretty much the middle of it, it just seems like somewhere in the run up to the festivity or festivities, he'll say this line, like, I don't get why your family, I don't get why your family makes such a big deal about birthdays, like adult birthdays, specifically,

he was like, I just have never known anybody that makes such a big deal about birthdays for adults. And so, right, I don't want to do my own crux finding, but I think part of it is that he is such a giving, he is the giver in our relationship, and I think I'm the taker. So it just makes me feel like I'm being princessy and that I'm being demanding. But like, am I really?

I just wanted to go out for dinners. That's so, okay. Maybe I'm being too demanding. Yeah, but wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Okay. I feel you on this. Like Kevin saying adults don't celebrate their birthday like this is gaslighting. Hey! We'll just lay that out there. Pre-verdict verdict. Right? Because that's an argument that is saying you're not normal and i know what normal is and this isn't it when what he really wants to say is i don't

like this and i don't want to be a part of it right because there are lots of people who celebrate their birthdays like this well at every age you know even bigger even bigger celebrations even more like there are adults who probably go to real Chuck E. Cheese, not fake yuppie Chuck E. Cheese like you went to. Right. Well, and I was going to say, even the other thing is, is his family. I did submit some evidence that his family celebrates birthdays, his family of origin. Yes, I see the evidence here.

All these photos, of course, will be placed on the Judge John Hodgman page at MaximumFun.org. Most of this evidence are pictures of your cat, Asher. Well, I like it when Jesse laughs at pets. I can't deny it. Look, I'm not a dancing monkey. No offense. It's fine.

It is established precedent on this program that if you want me to laugh at a picture of your pet, your pet has to be doing a dumb, funny thing. Look, it's a beautiful cat. I encourage everyone to go to Instagram slash Judge John Hodgman. Take a look at this beautiful cat. It's got beautiful eyes. But put a chef hat on it or something. a minute asher let me just say this asher looks great jesse's right he's got is it a he cat it is he's got incredible eyes very judgmental

kind of looks like a mandalorian but jesse look at the one where he's got the magic wand in his paws about to cast a spell oh Oh, that's a magic wand. I thought it was a ray of sunlight. Yeah, well, I mean, this cat thinks he's magic. That's pretty funny. What's he going to do? Cast a spell? Come on, give me a break.

It's a cat. Cat's a spell, right, Jesse? Cat's a spell. Cat's a magic i'm gonna cat's a spell right jesse cat's a spell cat's a magic spell all right and we have a statement from kimberly kevin's younger sister wait what i'm writing today in support of ann yeah what did my sister say in support of ann i'm sorry you were not provided discovery when this was submitted into evidence this is a gross malpractice and you had to have shown him your evidence then you hear this i'm going to read it out loud in court oh boy okay

i'm writing today in support of ann and in support of birthday celebrations and the inherent right to celebrate them the facts are growing up in the last name redacted household kevin's household birthdays were celebrated, particularly as children. We had some roaring birthday parties as children with magicians involved. As adults, birthdays continue to be honored and celebrated.

They have become increasingly met with resistance by Kevin as the years go on. Anne is not unreasonable in her desire to celebrate her birthday. To her knowledge, she hasn't hired a magician. Not once. Have you,

Ann? No. Mostly it's involves going out to eat in small gatherings with friends. Allow me to offer this interpretation. All right, Kimberly birthday celebrations. Aren't just for the person who's being celebrated. Perhaps recognition and attention on your birthday brings to mind thoughts of mortality.

Oh boy, I love where Kimberly's going now. Mortality, fear of time slipping away, aging, change, unmet expectations, and the unknown. The gifts, the celebrations, they seem unnecessary. All of a sudden, Kimberly is in a Paris cafe in black and white. Why celebrate getting older? Because birthday celebrations aren't about getting older. Allow the people in your life to celebrate your existence and significance in their lives by honoring the day that you arrived.

If you hadn't arrived, their lives wouldn't be the same. Let them have that joy. My brother, Kevin, let them have that joy, signed Kimmy. Didn't know Kimberly was nicknamed Kimmy. It's the darkest letter signed Kimmy I've ever read. All right. And then, but Kevin,

you submitted some counter evidence, the red birthday plate. Yes. The red birthday plate is my counter. I did not have time to get gather a friend of the court brief like my wife did, to gather a friend of the court brief like my wife did. But the evidence I've submitted is a red birthday plate which says in white lettering around the edges, you are special today.

Yes, I see it here. Early in our marriage, I learned that when we celebrated birthdays in my in-laws' home, they would take the plate down off of the shelf and serve a meal to the birthday boy or girl or the celebrant if you will on that plate this plate had a place of honor above my mother-in-law's sink for several years until very recently it's gone missing which i had no part in whatsoever yeah i know i know where it is it's smashed up in the bottom of that closet behind you. I, I deny that vehemently judge that it's not true. Uh, but this was one of my first exposures

to the, the amount of intensity with which my in-laws family celebrates birthdays, a special plate that you only eat off of once a year sure your honor that's a little weird right yeah i don't need to ask you if you found that to be a little weird your tone of voice conveyed that perfectly thank you and what do you think happened to this you are special today plate probably that my mom changed her decorating color scheme and put it away. It was all red for a long. It had been it had been above the sink for years. Well, I don't want to take away Kevin's one piece of evidence. So I'll try not to argue too strongly about this.

But I literally can remember two times in my life that I ever ate off that birthday plate growing up in the house. ever ate off that birthday plate growing up in the house she i think she kept it because it's red and she is committed to her red color scheme in her kitchen and it is called the red plate because it's red who's gaslighting whom now ann are you telling kevin that his lived experience of watching your mother take the plate off the wall to give to the birthday celebrant that his lived experience of observing that was only the product of his lying eyes that it meant nothing she only had it because it was red how dare you how dare you i i am actually going to say that that is that to my memory that plate has not been used in the time of our marriage yeah kevin everybody has a you are a special plate above their sink no i don't think

they are mass produced though kevin you want to respond to that that open gas lighting i mean that was an unsealed burner on a gas stove now i can't remember if it actually happened here's what i do remember i know it was above the sink i know it was above the sink for many many years and i know that my first uh response was huh a birthday plate that's weird now whether or not i can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was taken off of the shelf and served on a table well now my my mind is a blur my mind's all mixed up i'm i'm i don't know what to believe anymore one of those inter intergenerational family mysteries like the gray

house from judge john hodgman year one that will maybe never chase down exactly all right we're gonna move along here kevin if i were to rule in your favor, what would you have me rule? I would ask you to rule, Judge, that one significant celebration per year per adult birthday is sufficient. So just one? Yes, sir. Just one. So either Anne has dinner with you or make your own pizza with the gang and you and you'll show up if you feel good about it when you say it like that judge it sounds like a threat no uh well that's that's

either two or one there are two before in the future that you want there to be one your honor what i'm here is to answer the rhetorical question I asked at the beginning of the episode, which is how many, how often and how much? Rhetorical questions don't have answers. Rhetorical questions are out of order, sir. Kevin. Yes, sir. Has Kimmy always been an existentialist philosopher? No, no.

Well, here's one. May I just add this uh to uh the evidence presented my sister who is several years younger than i uh her birthday is only seven days before mine and so most of our growing up years we celebrated one birthday celebration for both of us which is why when we were children it was such a big deal. Our birthdays are only seven days apart. And she's your younger sister. That's correct. And so all of my birthdays as a child were both and, right?

So we had to do the G.I. Joe and the Barbie and the, you know, the baseball and the ponies or whatever. Metaphoricallyically of course so you've had this you've had this psychic wound since you know near birth of having your birthday stolen from you year after year you never had a you are special today plate in your life it was always you and kimmy and now you're trying to to salve that wound by taking ann's birthday away from her. Sir, my question to you is, I appreciate your going into your clothes closet to record much better acoustics than where I feel you probably wanted to record, which was sitting on the floor of the shower while crying. Also true, yes.

Kevin, my question for you is, what is your problem with pony baseball, the sport of kings? Anne and what would you have me rule if i were to ruin your favor um i'm recovering from the shock man my mind is blown there's a whole i had no i had no idea that it was causing him that pain okay i would like you to rule that he just not say that my family makes just don't say it think it fine but don't say it out loud around my birthday time that i make too big of a deal out of my birthday and then you know honestly that's it just don't say that i make too big of a deal out of my birthday that's what i would like you to roll. Okay. I've heard everything I need to. I'm going to go into my bouncy house that I installed here in my chambers. Hang on. I'm going to wipe down

my bouncy house with Purell first, and then I'm going to go into it. Consider my verdict. I'll be back in a moment with my decision. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Anne, how are you feeling about your chances? Well, I mean, I feel like what I'm asking is pretty small. So I feel pretty good about my chances. I feel pretty firmly that birthdays are real and that a lot of adults celebrate their birthday. I feel like I'm standing on strong ground right now. Do you think that you would be capable of delivering a birthday celebration that didn't require your husband's approval at every twist and turn in the planning narrative? You know, I probably could do that. I probably could give him a break on the planning updates.

Kevin, how are you feeling about your chance? Well, I think the judge made it clear he's not going to answer my rhetorical question. It was all riding on that. That and the pony baseball thing. That's right. That was it. I'm reeling somewhat from the psychological wound that the judge just uncovered from my childhood. But I'll be honest with you, Bailiff Thorne.

I think the judge is going to rule in favor of Ann because everyone deserves to have a birthday. And if I can extricate myself from the extensive planning process, that will be fine. Well, we'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a moment on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Hello teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice but to embrace because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls.

Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Hmm. Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I.

It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah, we are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go.

Court is back in session. Let's return to the courtroom for more justice. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict. Sorry, I just got lost. I was somehow transported back to the daily cafe during my college years in new haven connecticut smoking a gal was rereading this existential tract by kimmy there's a lot there's a lot going on in this letter a lot that i agree with you know i i admitted my bias towards your point of view kevin that you know

kids enjoy birthdays because they're kids. And young people enjoy birthdays because they're young. And there is the sense that your life is important that starts to get interrogated and ultimately evaporates when you hit middle age. evaporates when you hit middle age. And then as you get older, birthdays take a new significance because, you know, beyond middle age, it's kind of amazing that you're living as old as you are and the people who love you want to celebrate you and celebrate that in you. But there is this moment in the middle, and I'm aware of your your ages from this document i'm aware of my own age we're in we're in the middle together somewhere which is this sort of gray area between the exuberance of of youth and self-celebration of youth and then the sort of honorific celebration

of older age we here in the middle matter nothing. We are being abandoned by our children as they go on to their own lives. And we are witnessing the end of life of many of our own parents and grand for lucky still grandparents and so forth. It is definitely a time when one might be inclined naturally to sit in one's shirt closet and close the door on one's birthday. I mean, so you chose where to go. I know instead go sit in the closet where, whereas others like,

and might look around the four walls of her remote learning teaching dungeon or wherever she is in the basement of your home in spokane and be like i want to get out there and have fun it's still my birthday i'm still young both of those impulses are natural and normal and deserve respect mutual respect either both ways. I mean, this is going to be one, Kevin, honestly, where the ruling is really based on what you guys asked me to rule, right? Because Anne is absolutely correct that it is inappropriate for you to, you know, guilt her around her birthday by trying to suggest this is not how birthdays are celebrated that is a form of of gaslighting of psychological manipulation by the same token and you are not allowed to gaslight kevin into believing that your family didn't have this you

are special today plate and it obviously touched a nerve in him i mean whether my psychological read whether my frankly langley langley quality psychological profile of kevin is correct or not he saw what he saw and when he saw that you are special today plate for whatever reason it weirded him out you know the celebration of one's specialness we are all special obviously but people have different comfort levels at different times in their lives at how special we are allowed to say we are you know what i mean and kevin's just in a place where that plate is a little bit like, that's a little, as we've said, unseemly.

It's a charming family tradition in your house, which you get to enjoy, but you also, in the same way, Kevin can't yuck your yum, as my brother and me would say, nor can you deny that your family

has a certain way of doing things that is not in the same, that caused a little friction in Kevin's inner life, right? Now, I can't rule that you should only have one celebration because you had two in February, and they were fine. There was one crypto visit to Chuck E. Cheese, adult Chuck E. Cheese,

that Kevin did not think was fun, but went anyway because he loves you. And then one, you know, intimate private dinner between the two of you, which was, I presume, much more to Kevin's liking. As we know, because he said he would have opted out of the one or the other. And both of those are fine.

You know what I mean? I have to find in your favor. And because all you're asking is that your husband not emotionally manipulate you during this period of time, that rather he be straightforward and expressing his contempt for your choices, acknowledging that they're your choices that they fall into your family's tradition but they're not his thing right

that's at least truthful you know what i mean so obviously i'm going to find an ann's favor but ann i need you i need you to listen to this kevin doesn't want to be looped in Kevin doesn't want to be looped in Kevin doesn't need to be looped in The pleasure that you take in planning Does not give Kevin any pleasure So when you're cooking this stuff up With your fam With your planning fam

Just have fun on your own That's your thing It's not Kevin's thing Tell him when to show up And tell him how many packets of salt to bring. How come we didn't talk about that more? Don't you people own salt and pepper shakers? Is that illegal in Spokane? Why are you bringing packets of salt and pepper to Thanksgiving?

Kevin doesn't need to be in the spreadsheet for these big events that you do whether it's your birthday or anything else that i think is fair there are people in my life well my dad who wants to know uh where we're going to be at 3 p.m august 19th 2021 so that he can plan when to visit us that's not that's in a time when we're all supposed to be lessening the burden on each other the psychological burden at the very least you know he doesn't need that psychological burden so lift it take that off his shoulders and i think if you do that there'll be a lot less conflict around these events in general i don't think kevin honestly if ann gives you the option to skip out on yuppie chuckie. Cheese in the future, probably don't.

That's not cool. Don't do that. Go to her birthday parties. Right. Good idea. I mean, I know that you weren't really going to do it, but, you know, we're just trying to get some hard truths there. you ask Kevin to respect your feelings about this arbitrary date that has no meaning whatsoever, even,

you know, and, and, and changed once we shifted from the Justinian to the Gregorian calendar, it's just arbitrary. Like let him have his feelings. Let Ann have her feelings in make an anchovy pizza for me, please.

Cause no one ever gets one. And also get salt and pepper shakers in your lives. They're a pretty good invention. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Kevin, how do you feel? Quite frankly, I think this was as I expected the judge to rule, Quite frankly, I think this was as I expected the judge to rule, and I will abide by it, and I will enjoy celebrating my wife's birthday the next time it comes around. Anne, how are you feeling? I feel really good. that I will not involve him in any of the planning of it, but boy, I better come hard with some sort of baseball-themed birthday party for Kevin every year

so that he feels fulfilled from what he got left out of. Listen, I'm a big baseball fan, I'll tell you. First step is renting the ponies. After that, everything else is pretty straightforward. And Kevin, thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Another Judge John Hodgman case is in the books. So once again, before we go, I just want to say thank you again to all of our listeners, all of our members for supporting whatever great Maximum Fund content

you have been able to support. We're truly grateful you've chosen to step up to the plate for us. Oh, baseball. And support us and helping us be able to create the show in a way that's authentic and beholden to no one but our audience. And, you know, I don't want to belabor the point, but when Jesse pointed out that 70% of what makes MaxFun go is listener support, I mean, I wasn't totally feigning surprise. It astonishes me every time.

I wasn't totally feigning surprise. It astonishes me every time. I realize not only that such a large portion of what makes the show go comes directly from listeners, but how great that is. What an incredible vote of confidence in us that is. And what a wonderful way to make podcasts or any creative endeavor, because we know we're beholden to you. We're making it for you. And we're glad and grateful to do it. So thank you.

If you want to become a member, you haven't had a chance yet. It's at maximumfund.org slash join. And thanks. Before we dispense some swift justice, we want to thank, I'm going to say Rebbe Staines, but could be Reeb Stines, could be Rebbe Staines, but could be Reeb Stines, could be Rebbe Staines. Really not a name I'm confident I know how to pronounce, but thank you for helping us name this week's episode. If you want to name a future episode, you can like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook. We regularly put out our calls for submissions there. You can follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman.

Hashtag your Judge John Hodgman tweets. Hashtag JJHO. And check out the MaxFun subreddit at MaximumFun.reddit.com to discuss this episode. We are on Instagram at Judge John Hodgman, complete with photographs of magical cats. This week's episode, edited by Hannah Smith, our producer, is the ever capable and right now childless. Yes, that's right. The babies with the grandparents. Oh, so mommy can produce podcasts.

Sorry, Jennifer. Jennifer Marmer. Hey, Jesse, let me just jump in to confirm. Tim Kalpakis did write the Birthday Boys sketch. We got to get that pie. I have that on good authority from former Birthday Boy Mike Mitchell of the Doughboys. There you go. Thanks for letting us steal your work.

Oh, we got to get that pie. We got to get that pie. It's on Vimeo, right? People can search for Birthday Boys pie and they'll find it. Yeah, it's very good okay swift justice where we answer your small disputes with a quick judgment meg asks can i put jam on a fried egg sandwich i think it's delicious my husband acts like i'm committing a federal crime in the kitchen oh this is a hard one because I was I just I mean, I love a fried egg sandwich so much and jam would definitely yuck my yum.

But that said, if it's your yum, I can't yuck it as gross as that sounds to me. Meg, based on the precedent just set on this very podcast, I got to say, go for it, Meg. It is not a felony to add jam to a fried egg sandwich. It is frankly a misdemeanor in my eyes, but you go for it. Yeah. I want to make it clear that I'm pressuring my representatives to make it a felony to feed me a fried egg sandwich with jam on it. Yeah, that's right. If you are making your husband eat that jammy fried egg then you should go to jail that's terrible but go ahead do whatever you want to your taste buds they're yours i support it i'm excited anytime i hear about some weird sandwiches

somebody's eating like the security guard puppet on the public television show today's special. I am. I'll tell you what, anytime I get an email where the subject line is sandwich, I am not excited. That's just because I've been traumatized by the, is a hot dog, a sandwich debate.

That's it for this week's episode. Submit your cases at maximum fund.org slash JJH. Oh, or email Hodgman at maximum fund.org. No case is too small. We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. MaximumFun.org. Comedy and culture. Artist owned. Audience supported.