Judge John Hodgman - Class Bee Spellony

Episode Date: April 6, 2022

Kendall brings the case against her husband, Dave. They share a New York Times Games account and cannot figure out how to play the Spelling Bee game together. Kendall wants the game to herself but Dave wants the option to play it too! Who’s right? Who’s wrong?Thank you to Twitter User @rmvance for naming this week’s case! To suggest a title for a future episode, follow us on Twitter for naming opportunities: @JesseThorn & @Hodgman. Or keep track using the Twitter hashtag #JJHoCaseNames.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, Class B Spellany. Kendall brings the case against her husband, Dave. They share a New York Times games account and can't figure out how to play the spelling bee game together. Kendall wants the game to herself. Dave wants the option to play it too. Who's right, who's wrong, only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference. I woke up and my truck was covered with more bees than usual, so I ran outside in my pajamas to see what was going on.

A swarm of bees that I caught the night before was swarming again. I tried to offer their new hive back to them, but they weren't moving in very quickly. It was a race between me and the bees. I had to find the queen before the bees found a new place to fly off to. After a few minutes, I found her. I put her in a clip to keep her safe, but before I could put her in the hive, I had bees swarming to my hand. As soon as I put the queen in the hive, the bees started swarming to her. I still had some bees on my hand. They weren't leaving because they could still smell their queen on me. So I shook them off so they could find her. I waited for all the bees to get into their hive, and it was another great day of saving the bees. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear the litigants in.

Kendall and Dave, please rise. Raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he is himself a New York Times Magazine columnist? I do. I do. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. There are many conflicts of interest, I realize, as we fired up the teleconference.

But before we get into those conflicts, Kendall and Dave, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors. Can either of you name the piece of obscure culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom? Dave, why don't you guess first? I'm at a loss. I'll say alternative version of Charlotte's Web. Alternative version of Charlotte's Web. A thing that doesn't exist. Fan fiction.

A deep cut. I bet there is definitely some Charlotte's Web fan fiction out there. I'm going to enter that into the guest book. What about you, Kendall? Do you have a guess? I thought I saw you lighting on a hint of recognition to my monologue about bees. I can tell you that I almost never know the obscure cultural reference. This is probably the first time that I think I feel very confident that I think I know the answer,

but I don't know if I want to say it because I don't want an immediate summary judgment. I want to do the case. Don't worry. This court is so corrupt at this point, given all of the conflicts of interest, that we will hear the case no matter what. I will be curious to know if you can guess it. I'll tell you what, I will make sure you can't guess it. Even if you guess it right, I'll make sure you can't.

I've faced this before. Okay, okay. Is this the bee lady with the comforting ASMR monotone voice on Instagram and maybe also TikTok? The bee lady with the comforting ASMR monotone voice on Instagram and TikTok, whose name is what, Kendall? I always just thought that her legal name was the bee lady. The bee lady? No, it's Erica Thompson. Sorry. Blew that one, Kendall.

Erica with a K, Thompson with a P. Jesse, are you familiar with the Bee Lady on Instagram and TikTok? She talks about bees. Oh, Jesse. She's a beekeeper in Texas, and she just posts videos. She gets called in to move beehives out of people's grills or under their decks or in their recycling bins bees you know they'll form a hive anywhere they're not particular and if you got a hive where you don't want one you call this bee lady she comes in without any equipment just her hair in a ponytail no gloves

just starts grabbing not grab gently removing clumps of honeycomb and putting them into new hives. And she gets covered in bees, but they don't sting her because they like her too much. She's a magical bee lady who does not get stung. And it is such a calming thing to watch. And every now and then, I don't know if you ever saw this, Kendall, because I just saw it for the first time myself researching this one sometimes she'll grab a piece of honeycomb and just have a bite while she's with beat what has bees on it she's this charmed creature whom the bees will not will never sting or if they do they're like just a just the gentlest sting

and she speaks in this monotone and every one of her little mini essays ends with, it was another great day of saving the bees. And it's such, I mean, I just got some ASMR tingles on my scalp just saying it. Erica Thompson.

We got to get some real bee disputes, not spelling bee disputes, beekeeping disputes. We need some apiology disputes so that we can get Erica Thompson because I want this podcast to be a success. But hey, it's already a success because we have Kendall and Dave. There are some conflicts of interest. A, people who have followed me on Instagram when I do Get Your Pets will know Kendall as the person associated with the dog Abby, who also does dog portraits in,

is it cross-stitch or is it needlepoint? It's embroidery. Embroidery, excuse me. And you did a one, and you are, I am one of your clients. You did a wonderful embroidery portrait of our cat, Lola the Dum-Dum Cat, which is one of our prized possessions.

And you have also, I just was alerted, I have heard a case from you, and I did not know that it was you, Kendall, and you, Dave, whom I'm meeting for the first time. I did not know it was you two that I was going to hear, whose case I was going to hear today until I brought up my briefing this morning. Nor did I know, I've also settled another dispute for you in the New York Times, where I am indeed a professional author of a very small column net, a little columnella, Judge John Hodgman, where I settled a dispute between you and Dave over what Dave was making hot dog and mackerel sandwiches or something. What was the issue?

Tuna fish and peanut butter, not together, just in sequence. No, together. They were not mixed together. It was a meal and the meal included both tuna fish and peanut butter. Wait a minute, wait a minute. I was under the impression that you were serving tuna fish and peanut butter sandwiches to your children in order to expand their taste buds. And I ruled in your favor. You did. Because even though that's gross, it's great to let kids eat whatever they want.

And if they are as adventurous as they are to eat peanut butter and tuna sandwiches, then that will only stand them in good stead later. But now you're telling me it was all based on a lie? It was part of the same meal. And so I would argue it's still expanding their taste buds they were mixed together i think if you give any food to a child under two you can assume that it will all be eaten at the same time did the fact checkers of the new york times contact you yes or no not me wow oh my gosh another new york times scandal first their dumb editorial about cancel culture and now this oh my goodness well i'm a subscriber and a very

happy contributor so please don't fire me in new york times nor will i fire myself from this case even though we have had interactions before i can still dispense completely impartial justice on the case today, which involves the New York Times games section. Your crossword, your spelling bee, your controversially now your wordle. Who seeks justice in this court? I do. Your honor. Kendall, I find in your favor. Thank you very much for your wonderful portrait of our cat. Well done. You're a gifted artisan.

I found in your favor before, Dave, even when I thought you were mashing up peanut butter and tuna together. Okay, no, what is the issue? You like to do the spelling bee, and so does Dave. What's going on? Yes. So I am a big word puzzle person. I do the crossword puzzle every single day. What's your streak? What's your streak? My longest streak ever or my current streak? Give me both. I just looked it up. My longest streak ever is 168 games. Nice. Which I thought was a little on the low side. I think I must have accidentally checked a puzzle at some point and ruined my streak. My current streak is 49 games.

So I have a little ways to go to get back up there. I started doing it again after a long time away. It's wonderful. It's what it is. It's wonderful. So I love doing the crossword. And then when Spelling Bee came along, I jumped on that. And last fall, my family was all together my brother and sister-in-law were visiting for

an extended time from Asia and so my whole family my parents and my brother and my sister-in-law all would do the spelling bee together and Dave started jumping in and doing the spelling bee and so I would go and sit down and for my ritual of doing the B, and it would be halfway done. And then Dave would say, well, you can get the pangram, which for people that don't play the B, it's the word that uses all seven letters in the spelling bee, which is it's kind of like the little cherry on top of the game. Cherry on top of the game. Yes. Well, so for those people who are maybe not familiar with the spelling bee in the New York Times games section, it is a word search puzzle equivalent to a boggle,

which normally I hate. But in this case, I don't mind the spelling bee because all the letters are in the same direction, unlike boggle, where they're going any which way. It's a real boggle. And it's how many letters? I have to look it up. One, two, three, four, five.

Seven letters. Seven letters arranged in a honeycomb style. So there is one central letter surrounded by six other letters. And you are trying to form as many words as you can all of those using those letters and always using the central letter so for example today i'm i happen to open it i've spent a long time since i've looked at this game because this one also became a problem in my life the central letter is c and the letters around it are X, T, A, I, M, O. So, of course, I want to make axiom, but I can't because it doesn't have the C in it.

And they have to be four letter words at a minimum. And right now I'm unable to make a single word. Oh, coat, C-O-A-T. There we go. I got one. And you get points for each of the words you make. More points if the words are longer. There is a maximum number of words you can find. And if you get all of the words that are possible, you are called the queen bee.

If you get a certain minimum number of points, you are called a genius, which is something I definitely need a website to tell me every day. is something I definitely need a website to tell me every day. And if you get a word that uses all seven letters, that is usually called the pangram because there usually is only one. But sometimes there's more than one pangram. And you like to do it and your family was visiting and they were all doing it. And this is something you play on a website or on an application, right? You can't play this on paper. It doesn't work, does it? I is something you play on a on a website or on a on a on a application right you can't play this on paper it doesn't work does it i mean you could guess the scoring if you wanted to yeah but then you wouldn't be called a genius or the queen bee right and so your family came

and visited they were all doing it together and then since then dave has been interested in doing it he's been using your account and been finding about half the words before you even look at it is that correct dave that's not exactly correct so this is my account oh okay so kendall's used her crossword puzzle and her spelling bee are all under my new y Times account. So I wasn't, I hadn't been doing the spelling bee before. I've never done the crossword puzzle. But when we got together, it was a nice family bonding experience where we would have a group chat when Kendall's mom got genius. I think for the first time she sent a chat with the picture over of her winning genius

and everyone celebrated. And it was a very nice community family bonding time. And I got on the app and started playing as well. So the first time you discovered Dave was playing after your family had left, does your family still play? My family still plays. It's kind of hard to describe, but basically my brother and sister-in-law um were visiting from they live in asia and so they had covid issues getting back and they ended up their

visit ended up being extended so they would stay sometimes with us and sometimes with my parents and then sometimes um all of us would all get together and And so this was when kind of the spelling bee took off in our family because my parents play it together and my brother and sister-in-law play it together. And I think Dave wanted to play it with me, but it had kind of started out as my own little thing that I enjoy doing. Your own little corner of Dave's New York Times subscription. Yes, exactly. The one little bit that I enjoy doing. Your own little corner of Dave's New York Times subscription. Yes, exactly. The one little bit that was only yours. Like the two of you have to share Jamel Bowie. We all do. We can't all have Jamel Bowie to

ourselves as much as we want. But the spelling bee was all yours. Is that right? Yes. The games were mine. I suggested adding that subscription. So by playing together, one way to play together is that two different people on two different devices will use the same login to be solving the game simultaneously, to be playing and finding words simultaneously. And the points accrue to both of them as it were, correct? Yes. Right. And you had previously been doing it on your own and then you discovered one day Dave kept it going. I logged on to play and he had solved all the easy words. And so he had left all the hard words for

me. Wow. On purpose, Dave, or do you only know easy words? Easy words are easy to get. Absolutely true. And then when I said to him, you did the spelling bee already, he said, well, I left the pangram for you. Like it was a gift, not like he just couldn't get the pangram and needed me to get it. couldn't get the pangram and needed me to get it. And then if I did get it, he would text the group chat or he would say to our family, if we were all in the same place,

I'm the genius bee. Stolen valor. Wait, I immediately assumed that you were going to say he would text the family and say, we are geniuses, referring to him and you, Kendall. But in fact, he not only participated in the credit, he took all of the credit? I don't have a memory of Kendall going over the threshold of genius and me claiming genius from once she got the genius word. I do have a memory of me stepping in when the puzzle was already in process, getting enough words to get us to genius and then making a declaration.

And then saying, I am the genius bee. I don't remember if it was an I or a we. Oh my goodness. Like William Carlos Williams, who shall say I am not the happy genius of my household? Me, I'll say it. You got to admit, Dave, that's a little bit nervy, wouldn't you say? A little bit nervy?

It's so nervy that I'm not even sure that's actually what happened. Oh, geez. Look, I have a little concern here because I was told peanut butter and tuna fish together. was told peanut butter and tuna fish together. Now, either Kendall is misrepresenting that and everything, or Dave, you are changing the facts of the case

to fit yourself after the fact of the case. Can I ask if Kendall submitted any evidence to support this? There should be a text record. Hang on, let me just go down here and check. Oh, the only evidence that Kendall submitted is a picture of their dog Abby Abby, dressed as a bee. That's very interesting.

It's compelling, I would say. This is pretty adorable. Jesse Thorne, I'm not sure if this evidence has made its way to you and into your little room over there in Los Angeles. Wait, I found it. It's not just dresses. It's dresses like a bee-themed harlequin. Yeah, there's a lot of bumblebee frill going on. It is a ballet costume.

It's actually our daughter's ballet costume from when she was four. A dog. Three, I think. Three. Yeah, she was a dog. She was a dog dressed as a bumblebee. she was a dog for three i think three yeah she was a dog she was a dog dressed as a bumblebee she was a bumblebee so we had the costume lying around and yeah that's that's just how our dog's face looks all the time it's a very sweet dog yeah but this is not evidence this dave raises a good point this This is not evidence of Dave's malfeasance. This is a picture of a dog. This is a serious accusation, and we know someone's not always telling the truth in this family.

Do you attest now, under oath, under penalty of perjury in this fake internet law court, that Dave wrote, I am the genius bee? Yes or no? Kendall? Yes. Is there any shred of doubt in your mind? No shred, because when I mentioned this to him less than a week ago, he said, and I quote, when I put in the words,

the screen pops up and says, I am a genius bee. Uh-huh. But to be clear, this is a different scenario than Kendall just described. This is me getting the words that were necessary to get the Genius Bee title. When you get Genius Bee title, and again, it's been a while since I've done the spelling bee because it became a problem in my life. I don't remember. Do you have an automatic, like a button to press to share it to your text or your social messages the way you do now with Wordle? No, I don't think so. I think when my mom did it, she took a screenshot and she sent it because they like to do it on their phone, my mom and my dad. Right. Okay. You keep trying to get us to talk about your family.

I know. I'm sorry. No, probably wonderful. But I'm trying to figure there's some slipperiness of fact here that I'm trying to unslipper. So every time you say Dave texted I am the genius B, then Dave goes, actually, the thing popped up. I don't know what that's supposed to mean. When I ask you, is there a way to text the thing that pops up? You say, my mom and dad do another thing.

I don't care. I'm sorry, Kendall. You're wonderful with your needlework. I just need some straight answers from both of you. I'm going to ask you again. And again, I will remind you you're under oath. Did Dave text I am the genius bee to the family group? Yes.

Did he write those words with his thumbs or did he take a screen grab or share an asset that was given to him by the spelling bee itself? No, he typed those words into the chat and pressed send with his own hands i assume i wasn't there to see it but i assume he used his hands i appreciate your caution and not speaking hearsay you could you could provide evidence of this if I asked you to? No, unfortunately, I do not. My phone is very low on memory, and I have to delete all my text. Wait a second. Okay, hang on, hang on. Dave, what is your response to this accusation?

I can provide the absence of evidence. Wow. Permission to treat as hostile witness? Oh, I give myself permission. Yes. This is called jazz lawyering. It's about the evidence that isn't there. Dave, did you type I am the genius B? Yes or no? I do remember typing something to the

effect of being a genius when I cleared the threshold necessary to get genius status. I don't know if I typed I am a genius B. But you keep saying when I crossed the threshold without mentioning that you were standing on the shoulder of all those words. You crossed that threshold because you were standing on all those words that Kendall already got. That's fair. Let's take a quick recess. We'll be back in just a moment on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join. And you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join.

join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In. Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right? Yeah, from the restaurant Kraft. And did you know that most of the dishes at that very same restaurant are made with Made In pots and pans. Really? What's an example?

The braised short ribs. They're made-in, made-in. The Rohan duck. Made-in, made-in. Riders of Rohan. Duck. What about the Heritage Pork Shop? You got it.

Made-in, made-in. Made-in has been supplying top chefs and restaurants with high-end cookware for years. They make the stuff that chefs need. Maiden has been supplying top chefs and restaurants with high-end cookware for years. They make the stuff that chefs need. Their carbon steel cookware is the best of cast iron, the best of stainless clad. It gets super hot. It's rugged enough for grills or an open flame. One of the most useful pans you can own. And like we said, good enough for real professional chefs, the best professional

chefs. Oh, so I have to go all the way down to the restaurant district in restaurant town? Just buy it online. This is professional grade cookware that is available online directly to you, the consumer, at a very reasonable price. Yeah. If you want to take your cooking to the next level, remember what so many great dishes on menus all around the world have in common. They're made in, made in. Save up to 25% this Memorial Day from the 18th until the 27th.

Visit madeincookware.com. That's M-A-D-E-I-N cookware.com. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning, the experience of learning causes a sound to happen? Let's hear the sound. Yep, that's the sound of you learning a new language with Babbel. We're talking about quick 10-minute lessons crafted by over 200 language experts that can help you start speaking a new language in as little as one, two, three weeks. Let's hear that sound. Babbel's tips and tools are approachable, accessible, rooted in real-life situations,

and delivered with conversation-based teaching. So you're ready to practice what you've learned in the real world, and you get to hear the sound. learned in the real world. And you get to hear the sound. It's not just like a game that pretends to teach you a language. It's also not a rigid, weird, hyperacademic chore. It is an actually productive app that actually teaches you while you are actually having a nice time. And you get to hear the sound. Here's a special limited time deal for our listeners right now. Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners at babbel.com slash Hodgman. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply.

Is this the full nature of your complaint, Kendall, or has Dave done other things that are... Like right now, he's playing the game when previously it had been your game to play. Emily, it's his account. He, you know, it's in his name. Although you are a married couple, correct? Yes. Do you have joint finances? Yes. Right. Okay joint finances? Yes.

Right, okay. So it's your money too. So we already established that he's playing the game that you used to consider to be yours and yours alone, rightly or wrongly, right? That's complaint A. Complaint B is he's taking credit for accomplishments within the game,

like making genius, and not being forthcoming, that it is a collaboration. In this case, a non-consensual collaboration, but a collaboration all the same. So is there anything else that Dave does that I need to know about? Yes. I do think it's important to know that when I told him that I wanted to do the spelling bee by myself. He said that was totally fine. And if I got to the spelling bee game before he did, he would be happy to just let me do it myself. And shortly after this conversation,

I got up in the middle of the night to get a glass of water, went out to the living room, and he was at four in the morning, sitting on the couch, doing the bee for that day. Okay, so you're saying that he gave you no chance to get started first. Yes, exactly. Dave, what's going on? Are you very competitive? I think we're both very competitive.

I also have strange sleeping habits, so I'm sometimes up at 4 a.m. and I will do Wordle now or I will do the Bee previously. I don't even want to talk about Wordle. Maybe we'll talk about it later. Kendall, do you believe that Dave just happened to get up or are you alleging that he's so competitive that he decided he would get to it before you did just to out of spite, just to beat you in the game?

I don't think that he purposely woke up in the middle of the night to get to the bee before me. He does have very strange sleeping habits. So it's not unusual for him to be awake in the middle of the night. But I do think that he woke up and realized that there's a new bee at, I think, 3am Eastern Time and thought he would just sneak in there and take care of it before anybody noticed. Have you ever tried to play together intentionally? Like, okay, if this is the way it's going to be, let's try and do it together. We'll sit down together with our respective phones and try to solve it together in real time

and give each other hints and have fun? Or is this merely just a battle to get there first at this point? I can think of one occasion. One nice occasion. I can think of several unpleasant occasions. Dave, do you have a nice occasion or an unpleasant occasion?

I have a nice occasion. Let's hear the nice occasion. We spent a weekend in Maine and New Hampshire a couple months ago and went to brunch and spent a nice leisurely brunch. And after brunch, sat down together and did the bee. Do you consider that to be an example of a nice occasion, Kendall, or was that a not nice occasion? Yes, I would say that was the one nice time that we did do it together. Were you in New Hampshire maine at that point

we were in new hampshire i think okay i'm sorry it's not a very nice occasion then i apologize what was an unpleasant occasion well i think usually when uh he would start it and i would have to jump in and do it and take, you know, find the rest of the words. Or if I was already doing it and he would see that I was doing it and sort of over my shoulder try to suggest words. modes of competition, which is either I don't care about it at all and can't get bothered really to try hard or care much about it, or I care so much about it that it becomes like a real problem. So Dave knows this about me, and this is why we don't really do things that require us to uh compete against each other because it it can turn unhappy uh sort of quickly i have a note here to ask you about the scrabble incident uh yes that is that is never any good scrap anytime anytime someone has a scrabble memory that is usually

a memory of of conflict or humiliation or regret which is it in your case um yeah probably kind of a little bit of all of those things yeah what is the scrabble incident well um we were on our honeymoon and uh we were in italy nice at this point we were in uh chinkaterra okay which uh was absolutely beautiful and uh it was towards the end of our honeymoon which was absolutely wonderful. But it was very, it was a long honeymoon. I think we went for three weeks. And before that, I had been sort of living out of a suitcase. I had, I had to move from New York to Chicago where Dave was, was living. And so I was kind of at the point in my, my life where I just wanted to stop living out of a suitcase and I wanted to kind of get back to my home and live my normal life again. And I think I was just feeling a little, you know, when you go through so many emotions and kind of you're feeling a little emotionally wrung out.

So I think I had sort of reached that point. So I think I had sort of reached that point. And we were literally on a balcony overlooking probably one of the most beautiful places in the entire world with probably a glass of wine. um i'm i'm a literally professional author and so word stuff has always kind of been my my thing dave is an economist so he he gets all like the number logical things you're saying he got out of his lane well he he he beat me and um i did not it well. I think I really needed a win at that point. Yeah. So he, yeah, he beat me. And I think that was the last game of Scrabble we've ever played, which was more than a decade ago. Wait a minute. I presume you threw this travel Scrabble set over the balcony.

It's in our living room somewhere. Oh, no. You should have thrownble said over the balcony. It's in our living room somewhere. Oh, no. You should have thrown that right over the balcony. That's the David Reese move. When someone wins and they shouldn't, it's within the rules. Ask David Reese. If someone wins and they shouldn't, you flip the board. That's within the rules.

I'll remember that for next time. You were upset that your beloved husband, whom you had just married and a whole human being in his own right, beat you at Scrabble. You are an author of books. You're the words person. You love word games. And he beat you, and he's an economist, for God or whatever damn sake. What do the word games mean to you kendall well i i really enjoy them i i think that um especially for a writer you sort of need to have those little uh maybe slightly

procrastination techniques before you can actually sit down and write. To me, I kind of think of it as like, it fires up my brain a little bit. It gives me something to, you know, it's a task that I can accomplish every single day. And it's a nice part of my routine. And, you know, and I think that I'm very good at it to kind of say something nice about myself. So I'm very proud. Thank you. I'm very proud of, you know, my word smithing abilities and cross wording and scrabble and wordle and spelling bee and all those things.

I find them really, really fun. And it's just a very personal ritual to me. And, you know, if Dave and I wanted to do something collaboratively, I enjoy doing that. Like we do puzzles together. That's kind of like the only collaboratively. Well, that's neutral zone because it's not words nor numbers. It's shapes. Exactly.

Exactly. Yeah. So you're saying this is your territory. Yes. And you feel like your territory is being invaded and his territory is what is his territory, would you say? So he's very good at at sports for sure. A couple of times we'll do, you know, we'll we'll run, or we'll do other sort of we used to swim together. And, you know, he's, he's naturally more talented at that stuff than I am. And then chess is his,

it's his big thing. So he, I will say for sure, he is a much better chess player than I will ever be in my entire life. And, you know, I was talking a couple of days ago with your producer about one time we went to a bar and Dave was like several drinks in and I had had maybe a sip of my drink and he still wiped the floor with me. And that is totally fine because I know that I will just never beat him. So I'm happy to kind of just play with him. But when it was my own kind of little game that he just sort of jumped into, I did feel a little like, can I just have my little bee to myself, my own little corner? Does Dave step into your corner in other ways? I mean, you're married, you share a life together. But does he have a habit of taking things that you like and making them his own?

We actually have, I would say, maybe because of kind of our personalities, we have very separate spheres of influence, I would say that he kind of has the things that he takes care of and enjoys. And I have the things that I take care of and enjoy. And we actually sort of joke that we have pretty much nothing in common with each other. But Dave, maybe you want to have something in common. Maybe that's why you want to play. That's a generous interpretation. Why do you want to play the spelling bee after you've heard everything that Kendall's said to me and I presume has already said to you? I think what attracted me to the spelling bee initially was the ability to do it together.

And so putting aside the texts and things like that, there are... I'm sure you would love to put aside the texts. You've been trying to put aside the texts from the beginning. I enjoyed having the chance to text about words with Kendall's family. Her brother and I, over when he was there over break, wrote a little program to kind of find different words in the spelling bee. And it's just it's it's a communal activity um and so don't dave yeah i don't want to hear about kendall's family anymore i'm sure they're lovely people so this sunday morning i was sitting downstairs our older

daughter came down who's in second grade right so we sat down together it was a it was a cold morning we were sitting under the electric a it was a cold morning we were sitting under the electric blanket she was reading so she got a kindle uh last year so she was reading on her kindle i opened i opened up my phone and started uh playing wordle she she had been doing wordle in school to learn new words and so she she understands the concept of the game and so we were doing the world together i don't know if anyone has done it's the one there was the one this past weekend where there were no vowels. And so it was, how do we think about this word?

What do you mean there were no vowels? Well, there were no A-E-I-O-U. And so it was a moment of, well, Y can be a vowel sometimes. So we were talking through the different words that you might be able to. Just tell me, everyone's done it. What was the answer? So this was nymph. Nymph.ymph oh good

one i like that and i'm sure i'm sure everyone on twitter was like what is a nymph how dare you new york times you ruined wordle with nymph i think there was there was a fair amount of that so we finished the wordle and she said to me can we do the b and so i said to her, can we do the B? And so I said to her, we can't do the B because mommy does the B. Whoa. And then I said it again loudly enough for Kendall to hear upstairs. Oh, sure.

Right. It's not passive aggression unless you say it so the other person can hear it. So there are moments where inspiration strikes that I would like the opportunity, such as spending a morning with our daughter. Everyone can now stop yelling at their podcast, listening device,

whatever it might be. Obviously I'm going to ask the question, why not just get a separate account for you, Kendall, to do the puzzles on your own? How much is a games account for the New York Times? You can sign up on your own, can't you? I could, yes.

Oh, wait, you can't. It doesn't matter because you would be leaving your streak behind on the crossword. Yes, that is the problem, is that Dave uses his account to do everything in the New York Times. his account to do everything in the New York Times. And if I got a new account, I would lose my streak and all my statistics, which I believe now is at 1,300 games, over 1,300. Of the, by games, you're talking about crossword puzzles? Crossword puzzles, yes. I don't want to get rid of my statistics, not only because I enjoy looking at them from time to time, but it keeps track of your personal records. And then it averages your personal records for how fast you solve the puzzle.

So it's kind of an extra challenge to try to beat your average or get a best time. Yeah. I know how that can be sucked in. I know how that got me back. I had put that crossword puzzle down for so long. I didn't need it anymore. I didn't need it in my life anymore. I was happy.

I got that time back. And they got me back. They got me back again. You know what it was, Jesse Thorne? What's that? It was Mark Gagliardi of the we got this uh podcast on maximum fun posted on his instagram his 365 day streak of completed crossword puzzles without checking without cheating and he it was on it was on January 1st of this year. And he said, should I go for another year? And I'm like, Mark, I'm going to go get it. And I'm in there now, 88 days. If I lost that streak,

honestly, I don't know what I would do. I would be very, very upset. John, have you heard about my streak? No. What's your streak? John, have you heard about my streak? No, what's your streak? It's called the drama of the gifted child streak. I'm on year 41 of not feeling like my accomplishments are worth celebrating, but feeling like if I fail to accomplish them, it's a failure.

Oh, wait. Let me tell you something, Jesse. Wait till you get to year 50. Oh, you're just 41 years, huh, Jesse? I'm on 50. I don't know. Trying to do anything turns out to just be a setup for an L. Stick with it, kid.

You'll get to 50. Okay. Dave, for you, there is potential value in doing the game together. But for Kendall, the value is doing the game alone. Do you feel left out? I think it's a missed opportunity. I think doing games together is a nice family experience. I don't think it needs to be all the time. And so I don't know what potential rulings are allowed in this custody battle. Whatever I want. How about that?

Well, Kendall has asked me to rule that from here on out, she has the game to herself. And I have here that you would like me to rule that you can have the option to play slash partial custody of the game. Basically, do want whenever you want right no no not whenever i want whenever but i think there are certain opportunities to play where they're either together or with family and in certain circumstances there should be some exemption of kendall's complete control of the game. What would the exemptions be? Give me a compromise. Fridays? You ask first, and if she says sure, yes.

And if she says no thanks, then you don't push it. What's your compromise between her having it to herself and you being able to go in and do all the small words and claiming she needs to be self-enriched like it? and you being able to go in and do all the small words and claiming things for yourself whenever you feel like it. If there are certain times, I would enjoy playing with Kendall or with our daughters to have a chance to say that, to have a chance to play.

Not often, maybe once a month, but when the opportunity is there to play, to be able to do that. But you determine when that opportunity arrives. Because for Kendall, there's never that opportunity. She wants nothing to do with you. She wants nothing to do with your daughters, at least as far as the spelling bee is concerned. But if you sense like, oh, this is a good day to do it with our daughter,

or this is a good day, then you decide. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Is there anything else you'd like me to rule if I were to order in your favor, Dave? I'm thinking back to the tuna and peanut butter and jelly. I just want to make sure that ruling is still solid. Let me just say, Dave, whether the tuna and peanut butter were mushed together or served sequentially, I still them to find value in different kinds of foods, but also the value of spending time with them and having that fun together. I am

fully in your favor on that one, Dave. I fully rule in your favor. Okay. As for this one, I will be back in a moment with my verdict. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Dave, how do you feel about your chances right now? I felt better when we started. I thought I was losing ground a little bit toward the end, so I'm a little nervous. Kendall, how about you? Yeah, I thought that I was going to be seen as the villain for stealing the bee. And I heard a lot of,

you're going to lose the bee from, you know, somebody else in the courtroom today. So I'm feeling hopeful, more hopeful than when I started. We'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a second on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a second on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience,

one you have no choice but to embrace, because, yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will.

Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah, we are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh, then you're on the go. Judge Hodgman, we're taking a quick break from the case. I want to mention something. Please. Before we get into what you've got coming up, because you do have something really cool coming up. Yeah. You know how you made this television show

called Dicktown that's available right now on Hulu to stream? I'm aware of it, yes. Thank you for thinking of it. I just want you to know that I don't want you to think that I didn't notice that you put in a Satsuma joke. I like Satsumas when they're in season.

Thank you for noticing. We were watching it with my mother-in-law. My wife and I were watching the show with my mother-in-law. And my wife paused the show and turned to my mother-in-law and said, they put that in there for Jesse. That's right. And I realized that I have this royalty check for you. For $200 million.

Holy cow. The WGA is really serious about favorite fruit related ideas. $200 million. No, it's not. It's not. It's not that. And Jesse, I'll buy you some Satsumas. Oh, thank you.

That is from our episode called The Mystery of the Strawberry Patch, episode three. All episodes of both season one and season two are now available at bit.ly slash Dicktown. That's on Hulu. Go to Hulu and search up Dicktown. Hey, if you Google Dicktown, guess what? You see a picture of me. It's always been my goal. Yeah.

But, Jesse. You have some in real life stuff happening. Yeah. I mean, this is really something. I looked at my calendar and rather than just the blasted plane of emptiness, there are things coming up. Live events are happening and I want to tell you about them. So when this episode releases, it will be a wednesday april the 6th and if you are listening to it on time or tomorrow and you happen to be in or near denver won't you come see me have a little

conversation with who jeff tweedy of wilco yes wow wow i'm i it's it's it's jeff tweedy's night everybody i'm just there to throw some questions at him and let him be adorable in a jean jacket. That's his job. Jeff Tweedy at the Paramount Theater with John Hodgman in conversation. You can just Google. You can get all the deets at wilcoworld.net.

Wilcoworld.net, that's the Wilco official thing. And of course, we have solid sound coming up but before that i'm gonna go up to the state theater in portland maine to join uh one of one of the top uh other podcasts jesse love it or leave it wow john love it from podcast very popular john love it from pod save america live a different guy different guy got it uh he did he did he did produce uh he was the showrunner and creator of one season of a sitcom called 1600 pen oh okay but he's also a former obama staffer and uh co-host of pod save america and his own comedy show love it or leave it i'll be the one of the one of the guests on that show live at the State Theater in our beloved Portland, Maine.

It won't be the same to be there without you, Jesse, because that was one of the last places we performed in 2019. We hope to come back soon as well. But for now, I am the advance guard. I'll be up there fumigating the place, making sure that it's ready for Judge John Hodgman and his listeners. You can just go to statetheaterportland.com or just Googleodgman and his listeners you can just go to state theater portland.com or just google hodgman love it with two t's state theater portland you'll

find it that's may 19th and then after that nary a week i will be returning to north adams massachusetts for the solid sound festival which is wilco's big three-day festival of music and art and performance. Obviously, Wilco, Jeff Tweedy, and the gang are going to be playing two big nights out there on the lawn at Mass MoCA, the Massachusetts Museum of Contemporary Art, this beautiful old factory that was turned into this incredible multi-gallery museum of large-scale installation art. It's worthy a visit of itself, never mind when Wilco is invading it. And of course, I will be hosting, co-hosting, I should say, with our dear friend Jean Grey, the comedy stage, all day Saturday afternoon,

with lots of special guests, including Nagin Farsad, River Butcher, and Nick Offerman. Nick Offerman and I are going to go to the Maloof house together. I should plug that. Go to the Put This On shop if you want to see what I'm up to. It's not just, look, the volume of trading cards in the Put This On shop has exploded. I'm going to be frank. Yeah. It's distressing at this point, the range of trading cards that you can get in the Put This On shop.

It's not just Dune and Dark Crystal anymore. Now there's Iditarod trading cards. Iditarod trading cards? Yeah. That's all at PutThisOnShop.com. Plus all those brass belt buckles. We just made a huge, huge drop of brass belt buckles from the 70s, including those ones that have your name on them. And we got so many names. I bought out like a huge collection of name belt buckles.

So your name is probably available at putthisonshop.com right now. Use the code Vintage Justice for free shipping on almost everything in the store in the United States. Shall we get back to the case? Let's do it. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his binding verdict. So as I mentioned, I had gotten the crossword puzzle out of my life.

I love it. I love the crossword puzzle. And here are my rules for the crossword puzzle, everybody. And by the crossword puzzle, I mean the New love the crossword puzzle. And here are my rules for the crossword puzzle, everybody. And by the crossword puzzle, I mean the New York Times crossword puzzle. But there are a lot of other crossword puzzles out there, including a lot of great independent cruciverbalist websites where great constructors are making great crosswords. You should check them all out if you love the crossword. I love the crossword.

I love the pleasure of taking chaos, much like the spelling bee, what looks like chaos, and organizing it into words and concepts and phrases that I understand. I also love the crossword, unlike the spelling bee, has a trivia element to it. There are those questions where either you know it or you don't know it. And I'll tell you, I do not mind looking it up on Wikipedia if I don't know it. Because guess what? I learned a thing. It was not just a waste of time learning the tricky crossword puzzle words that are always there, like Eli or what's another classic one I'm thinking of? Ute.

U-T-E. Yeah, Ute. Thank you, Kendall. You're not just learning how to do the crossword puzzle. You're mainly learning how to do the crossword puzzle. You're mainly learning how to do crossword puzzle. You're also learning a little bit about the world. a certain number of days in a row. You did it and it was gone because it was just a moment of meditation, essentially. Well, I got back into the crossword puzzle because of Mark Gagliardi. And Kendall, you'll find this interesting. About two weeks ago, and Dave, you might too. I don't know.

It's a great story. I'm an incredible storyteller. A couple weeks ago, I got up in the middle of the night around 4 o'clock, 3 o'clock, 4 o'clock, Dave hours. You know what I mean? And as I went and I relieved myself in the bathroom and I'm washing my hands, and I realized that I forgot to do the crossword puzzle

the previous day. And my streak was probably going at about 45, 50 days at that point, so this would like be a month ago. And it was a truly truly awful feeling one because i felt so disappointed in myself for having forgotten because it was a monday or a tuesday the easiest day that's why i forgot to do it because i was like i can do that any it'll take me five minutes to do it today and two because i realized how much that dumb number had meant to me. It was just a dumb number.

It's like the day I lost on the Wordle after a 45-day streak or whatever. I broke that streak, and I felt so glum and awful and disappointed in myself. And I thought to myself, this is terrible. It's terrible that this happened. And it's also terrible that I feel this way about it. I got on with my life. I mentioned something about this on Twitter. I did the previous day's crossword just to get it out of my system. The one that I forgot to do and lost my streak on.

And then, I don't know whether it was later that night or the next day that I looked at it, my streak came back. Yeah. My streak got reinstated holy cow i saw that look that jesse thorn gave me do you understand what that means right jesse there's still hope for pete rose there's still hope for pete rose because apparently there's no justice in the world and cheaters get rewarded.

Even I know who Pete Rose is. I broke the rules somehow. And this does not feel like a computer glitch to me. This is not one of those things where I did the previous day's puzzle at 1 a.m. and they counted it anyway. It was off. The streak was broken. It showed where the streak ended. And when I opened my computer and did that puzzle, the streak started up again. And when I opened my phone to look at it through the application there. I watched that blue non-streak puzzle in the archives turn to gold. There was intervention. Is it because I write a column for the New York

Times magazine? Was someone out there looking out for Hodgman's streak? I don't know. This has nothing to do with your case it's just something I needed to say it happened it happened something happened and someone reinstated my streak I got an asterisk on me Kendall and Dave but I still have that streak

and it does have something to do with your case look here's the thing Dave this is This is Kendall's thing. She said it's her thing. It's her thing. The spelling bee is a moment of meditation. And sure, it has a little to do with the fact that she works with words and not numbers, and it activates your brain in a certain way. I mean, you know, you've solved puzzles too. There is a deep lizard brain pleasure to solving a puzzle.

It's what we are doing every day as we go out in the world and we see faces and clouds. It is what our brain is designed to do is to see patterns where there are none or where we can make them ourselves. Solving puzzles is deeply pleasurable. And it is a very important part of brain activation when you are starting to get your day going. And it's Kendall's special thing that she likes to do. Is it fun to do it with friends and family? Of course. Of course that can be fun. Even Kendall can enjoy that from time to time, but it's still her thing. Like sometimes it's fun to do yoga together. And sometimes it's fun to meditate on your own. If you see someone meditating, even if they are your beloved,

even if they are married to you, it is not necessarily cool while they're in the midst of meditation to sort of lightly kick them with the ball of your feet and go, hey, hey, can I do this too? I'm sitting down. I'm doing it too. Let's go. Come on. Say it with me. That's less meditative. You know what I mean?

Hey, I'm bringing my daughter over. We're going to meditate with you. It's her thing. And what's more, she's expressed it to you. And you're saying, yeah, I know that that's her thing, but it shouldn't be. We should just do it together when I feel like it. Like if you had said to me, Dave, like I, I discovered this thing that I really enjoy.

And part of the enjoyment is doing it with her. Cause she's terrific. It's not just merely taking credit for a genius rank that I didn't earn. It's fun to do stuff with our daughters and with, and with the person that I love, but I get it. It's her thing. So how about a compromise? You know, we only do it on Sunday mornings, like together, like one day of the week, we do it together. Like, I'd be like, that sounds fair. Right. And then Kendall would have been like, no, it's mine. It's mine. And it's only mine. Baseline principle, though, baseline settled law,

Judge John Hodgman podcast. If it's not fun for everybody, it's no fun at all. And it's not fun for Kendall for you to play her game for her half, you know, halfway. And then she has to finish it out. It is not, it is fun for you to turn to her and say, hey, do the hardest part for me. That's fun for you. That is not fun for her. Therefore, it's not fun. The question is how to solve this because the solution is obvious

separate accounts see i have the solution and on the one hand i'm sure that there are lots of people and i think it would be perfectly reasonable to say to you dave sorry you're not allowed to do spelling bee anymore, even though it's on your account. That's where Kendall has her streak stored on the crosswords. That's where her stats are stored on the crosswords. That would be a reasonable thing to order. But Kendall, here's what I'm saying to you. I hated losing that streak. I hated even more having it be reinstated falsely. And what I hated even more than that was appreciating how much this dumb number meant to me. Because I'm not a numbers guy.

I'm a words guy. The number of this streak meant so much to me and became losing. It became a point of shame. And you know what I don't need more of in my life? Anxiety, self-doubt and shame. I don't need a program telling me I'm inadequate because I got too busy that day to do the Tuesday puzzle. I appreciate how important the stats are. I appreciate the meaning of that number, but there is also a quality, a meditative quality, a growth quality in appreciating that all of this is an illusion and you can let it go. What's your streak again? My current streak is, I believe, 45.

Yeah. You're a baby. You're a baby. You're like Jesse, 41. 41 years of gifted child syndrome, 45 crosswords. years of gifted child syndrome 45 crosswords i'm going to find in your favor on the basis of dave you have to appreciate that kendall deserves her own thing her own realm in this world in this world and this marriage and everything else and she is allowed to circle a thing that should be hers just as you are allowed to circle a thing that could that is

just yours like if you were you know i don't know what you're you're maybe it wouldn't matter to you if she started horning in on your online chess community or whatever maybe you'd be thrilled about it people are different but i guarantee you everyone has a thing that they've got a circle in in their relationship where it's like, this is my thing. This is my time to be alone with whatever. So I'm technically ruling in your favor, Kendall, but I think you should just get a new account for yourself. Start fresh. Not only because I believe that there's a component of emotional health to it, but mostly, and I hope that you agree, and I'm sorry if you don't, but mostly I think getting your own account is just the only way to be sure. Hide the password.

It's the only way to be sure. I'm sorry that you have to revert to secrets in your marriage, specifically keeping the password to that account secret in order to maintain this little area for yourself. But going forward structurally, it will make sure that your thing is protected and that if Dave wants to do the spelling bee with you one day or work on a crossword with you one day or do another game with you one day, that you can come over to his house, as it were, and do those things with him. And I encourage you to do it. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules, that is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Dave, how do you feel? I feel like I got a ruling out of life lesson, so I feel good. Kendall, how do you feel? feel? I feel like I got a ruling out a life lesson, so I feel good. Kendall, how do you feel? I appreciate the letting go of statistics. I agree that I think sometimes it can weigh you down. And this isn't the first time that I've had to restart an account. I think every time I've had a baby, I've had to stop the streak and then take a year off and then jump back in. So I am going to emotionally prepare to say goodbye to my statistics. And I would love seeing Dave work on the spelling bee all by himself. And I'm curious to see how many points he will get.

Dave, Kendall, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Another Judge John Hodgman case is in the books. In just a second, we'll have swift justice. First, our thanks to Twitter user at RMmvance for naming this week's episode Class B Spellany. Class B Spellany. That's B-E-E, by the way. Boy, yeah. B-E-E. If you want to... It's a real hat on a hat. If you want to name a future episode, follow us on Twitter for naming opportunities at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman. While you're there, Twitter for naming opportunities at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman. While you're there, you can also hashtag your Judge John Hodgman tweets, hashtag JJHO. We're on Reddit at maximumfund.reddit.com.

Always a lively discussion there. Evidence and photos from the show are posted on our Instagram account. That is instagram.com slash Judge John Hodgman. Our producer is Jennifer Marmer. Our editor is Valerie Moffitt. Now, Swift Justice, where we answer your small disputes with quick judgment. Kelly says, I want to know who should fill ice cube trays and when. My mom says, give me a break. Not everything needs a rule when i when i when i scrolled down and saw this for the very first time not three seconds ago i almost burst into tears of delight

and relief it's true look i know that our podcast runs on disputes and disputes often hinge on rules and who should do what when but it's also true not everything needs a rule not everything needs a rule hey jesse i want to say something what's that i want to say that that embroidered portrait of my cat that I got from Kendall back a ways. It's one of the greatest things I've ever, ever seen or owned. She's truly talented. I encourage you to Google grumpy dog designs. I didn't even make a bitly for it because I know grumpy dog designs will take you right to Kendall Culper.com. You can, you can check out her work and also check out her book murder for the modern Girl, which is coming out, which is a murder story for teenagers. About a murderous mind reader.

A murderous mind reader in gangland Chicago. I'm going to check it out. Meanwhile, I was telling the truth when I said we want some disputes about bees and we want them now. Do you have a dispute with the apiologist in your life? Or are you an apiologist who is a rival apiologist? Do you have a dispute over the rule for how long a beard of bees should be? That's a lot of alliteration from anxious anchors and important posts. Jay, write to us at MaximumFun.org slash JJHO.

We're also still looking for disputes about vehicles. Jesse, I got some good news. We have a true, legit gondola dispute. Oh, my goodness gracious. Just came over the transom the other day. A true gondola dispute. Still would love a funicular dispute, but I'm very happy that you folks came through with a gondola dispute. Still would love a funicular dispute, but I'm very happy that you folks came through with a gondola dispute.

And by vehicles, I'm talking about cars, trikes, pedal assist bicycles, skateboards, long boards, any kind of dispute you got. I think we probably have enough Dungeons and Dragons disputes. I'll just say right now. You did not let me down, listeners. But if you have one you think I haven't gotten yet, MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. That's where to send all your disputes. Jesse, do we want disputes only about bees, gondolas, and Dungeons & Dragons?

We'll take your disputes on any topic at MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. That's MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.