Judge John Hodgman - De Plane

Episode Date: August 31, 2011

Elisabeth and Melissa are good friends and enthusiastic travelers, who often journey together on planes and in cars across the country. While their traveling styles mesh for the most part, they are divided on a hot-button issue: the correct way to de-plane once you've arrived at your destination. Elisabeth, who prefers to take the aisle seat, believes that the aisle-sitter bears some burden of judgment, and may choose to wait a reasonable amount of time before stepping into the aisle, without asking permission of his or her seatmates. Melissa, on the other hand, is frequently a window-seater, and believes that people should abide by the "row by row" rule as a general rule. WHO IS RIGHT, and WHO IS WRONG? Only Judge Hodgman can decide.

It's Judge John Hodgman here. Oh, where's Bailiff Jesse? Oh, that's right. He's on paternity leave. Luckily, we have special guest Bailiff Jake Tapper, senior White House correspondent for ABC News. Hello, Jake. Judge Hodgman, let me just say it's a distinct honor and a pleasure to be able to be bailiff for you. I'm sorry that your other bailiff isn't available, but I'm quite certain that I'll be able to fill his shoes.

This is a good operation. We have a lot of benefits here, Judge John Hodgman, the court of Judge John Hodgman. Jesse gets to take up to 10 weeks of paternity leave. I get to take up to 35 weeks of non-podcasting vacation. And I get my choice of senior White House correspondents as guest bailiffs. So it's a pretty good deal for me.

And my understanding was that you were looking only network. Right. And you didn't want facial hair, but you did want a male. And that leaves me. That's why I'm really pissed because Nora O'Donnell, CBS, and Chuck Todd and GoT are at NBC. Yeah, I worked the flow chart and you were what was left. You volunteered your services, I worked the flowchart and you were what was left. You volunteered your services, I believe. I think you volunteered your services through contempt on Twitter or something.

It wasn't contempt. It just, to be frank, in this media age, you need to diversify and explore possibilities. And to be quite honest, it didn't look like it would be all that difficult. Yeah, I think you said something along the lines of, tell me your side of the story. And then I'll be the judge. That's how we do it here be all that difficult. Yeah, I think you said something along the lines of, tell me your side of the story, and then I'll be the judge, and that's how we do it here. I saw you. We follow each other on Twitter. We've only spoken, for the very first time, we've spoken just a few minutes ago,

just to make sure that the Skype worked properly, and in my case, it is. In your case, you're talking through, I think, a pillowcase in a hotel room somewhere in Minnesota. Is that correct? More or less. Okay. And we'll get back to that in a second. So we follow each other on Twitter, and you indicated your availability to guest. I honestly don't recall exactly how this wonderful thing came about

because I've been working on it for a long time. Do you, what's your recollection of it? You know, I'm a fan of your work. Oh gosh. And I follow you

on the Twitter and I'm honored that you follow me and I saw you tweeting about your judging. Yeah. And I asked

if you needed a bailiff. Yes, that's right. And like I said, I was, you know, looking for some easy side catch. Yeah. And I asked if you needed a bailout. Yes, that's right. And like I said, I was looking for some easy sidecatch. Right. And then you arranged for Jesse Thorne to become pregnant so that he would be out of the picture.

And then all of a sudden you were the only one left. You were the only way we could do the podcast. But, you know, arranging for somebody you don't know to get pregnant or even somebody you do know,

that's, you know, it's not as... Look, you're the one who works in Washington, D.C. You know more about this for somebody you don't know to get pregnant, or even somebody you do know, that's, you know, it's not as easy. Look, you're the one who works in Washington, D.C. You know more about this stuff than I do. Yeah, we have waves. I mean, we're a diabolical group. But you are currently in another city, in another American city. Where are you now? I am in Minneapolis. Okay. Earlier today, I was in Des Moines, having covered the straw poll in Iowa.

And now I'm in Minnesota. President Obama is going to be here. I cover the press. Now, you have to understand that this will be podcast sometime in the future, probably when Michelle Bachman is president. So which one was Obama again? Which president was that? Yeah, President Obama. Right. Our 44th president, not President Bachman, our 45th. Okay.

Just so that this is happening, just so people understand this is being recorded in 2011 when Obama was still president and Michelle Bachman was not the dictator. Should we do a few versions? What's that? Should we do a few versions about like President Perry, President Paul, President – I guess we don't have to do President Valenti anymore. But should we do a few just in case I'm saying. But it's got to be Bachman.

So why? Did you not get – oh, you don't get the secret world government email chain? I get the Bildenberg one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Those guys are full of it. No. You need the secret world government headquartered at Yale University. They're the ones who know.

Oh, I'm sorry. No, I don't get it. I went to Dartmouth, so I apologize. All right. Very good. So are you prepared to bail it up? I'm going to bail it like I've never bailed before. I think that will come naturally to you and to me, too, because I don't know what I'm doing now.

I have to host the show normally. Jesse is here to hold my hand. Thank you very much for being here, Jake. Honestly, if it weren't for you, we couldn't do the show. And if it weren't for the fact that I've been lazy and hiding out in Internetless Hills, Massachusetts, not doing anything, all of Twitter getting angry at me for not updating the podcast, calling me the George R.R. Martin of our time. Thankfully, you're here to get this thing going. So if the complainant and defendant will now unmute

themselves, bailiff Jake Tapper will take it away. And you should start by saying, welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Oh, yeah, I've got the whole thing here. That's all right. Oh, good. Go for it. Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I'm guest Bailiff Jake Tapper from ABC News. And this week, we will hear the case of De Plaine. Elizabeth and Melissa are good friends and enthusiastic travelers who often journey together on planes and in cars across the country. While their traveling styles mesh for the most part, they are divided on a hot-button issue, the correct way to deplane once you've arrived at your destination. Elizabeth, who prefers to take the aisle seat, believes that the aisle sitter bears some burden of judgment and may choose to wait a reasonable

amount of time before stepping into the aisle without asking permission of his or her seat mates. This includes letting Melissa, on the other hand, a frequently a window-seater, she believes that people should abide by the row-by-row rule as a general rule. If the aisle-sitter wants to let others from a row farther back go ahead, he or she should ask their seatmates if it's okay to let the other travelers go by. In other words, Melissa looking at it more as a group dynamic and Elizabeth, Melissa feeling that way and Elizabeth not feeling that way. Elizabeth feeling like the aisle seat has the right to do what he or she wants to do. One person is wrong. One person is right. And only one person can decide. Please rise as Judge Hodgman enters the courtroom. Oh boy,, boy. Thank you, guest bailiff Jake Tapper, contacting us from the moon via ABC Skype line circa 1991. How are you, Jake?

I'm well. My Skype line belonged to Rune Arledge. You shouldn't badmouth it. It's got great history. Well, ABC, they were early adopters of Skype. It's true. It's very true. But I'm here not to nitpick the bandwidth at the Minnesota Radisson where you are right now.

I am here to pass judgment upon these two young women. Will you swear them in, please? Absolutely, sir. Elizabeth and Melissa, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God or whomever? I do. I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge Hodgman's ruling regardless of his ambivalence about Herve Villachance? I do. I do. Thank you. Judge Hodgman? Thank you very much, Justice Jake Tapper of ABC News.

I am ambivalent about Herve Villachez. It's terrible. I have nothing to say about Herve Villachez. I guess that's why I'm ambivalent. Okay. Who is the complainant? I guess it's me. This is Elizabeth.

Hi, Elizabeth. Rule of thumb, if you guess you are the complainant, you are the complainant. I submitted our dispute, I think, by default. Okay. And so will you state in simple terms what you see as the problem? Yes. Well, I mean, I think we have a disagreement about how to get off the airplane. And my position is that the person sitting on the aisle can judge the flow of traffic and decide when to step into the aisle and is not required to check with their seatmates before letting someone else go ahead of them. And Melissa, and you sit on the aisle seat. Melissa

is your traveling partner from time to time. And Melissa, you sit, you choose the middle seat because you love humanity? No, I try not to choose the middle seat, but I like the window seat. I just feel like that shouldn't mean I have to sign off all of my liberties just because I like the window seat. You feel that Elizabeth should hurry up? Well, I don't necessarily feel like Elizabeth should hurry up. I just think that she shouldn't make the decision for me about whether or not I would like to hurry up. I just want her to ask before she lets anybody behind us deplane before we do. What would you like her to say exactly?

I would like her to say these people behind us kind of look like they might need to get off the plane in a hurry. Do you mind if we let them go? And you want her to ask you specifically or anyone that might be well any weird any weird stranger that might be sitting there she it's it's beholden upon her to ask that person yes yes and i would i would want any weird stranger sitting next to me to ask me if it was okay. Right. But you can't push around any weird stranger. You can only push around your friend, Elizabeth. That's very true. She is the only one you have. She is the only one. Oh, well, Elizabeth, is Melissa constantly pushing you around?

No, no, I'm joking. All right. She's assertive. Elizabeth, you and Melissa travel around the world together all the time. Is she your personal valet or something? No, not at all. Is she your majordomo? Would that be majordoma? Majordoma. She's my pal, I would say. Okay.

She's your pal. What age are you people? I'm 29. I'm sorry. You're 209? What? I'm 29 years old. Okay. Okay. You're 29. I'm sorry, you're 209? What? I'm 29 years old. Okay, okay, okay.

You're 29. I'm 34. Oh, you're her elder? Well, you know, we try to forget that fact when we're just out, you know, traveling the world. But yes, technically I am. So specificity is the soul of narrative. Elizabeth, where was the last trip you guys took together? The last trip we took

together was a road trip across northern Montana. Okay, you could, was this on the ground or were you driving a plane? Yes, this was an on-the-ground car road trip. The last air travel. Yes, thank you. Please tell a relevant story if you don't mind. I'm sorry. The last time we flew on a plane together was we went to Massachusetts for spring break. Last spring break? Wait a minute. You're grown women. What spring break are you talking about? We both just completed an MFA program together, so we did have a spring break in the last year.

A spring break from an MFA program? Sure. You know, I haven't been judging people on a regular basis for a while. Do you know why? No, sir. I've been on vacation. My family and I have a vacation home that had belonged to my mom when she was alive in rural Internetless Hills, Massachusetts.

Do you know where I've spent the most of the past couple of weeks, though? Oh, I'm sorry, no. In a rental vacation home in Maine, another state. Do you know what that means? No, sir. I took a vacation from my vacation home. Ah. Do you know what that is? Loathsome. Do you know what it's similar

to? Spring break from your MFA program. What are you getting an MFA in? If you say creative writing, I'm going to scream. And we shan't say it. What are you getting your MFA in? Creative writing.

Ah! Where are you getting this MFA? We got it at the University of Montana. Oh, at the University of Montana. Oh, at the University of Montana. And for spring break, you went to Massachusetts? You are some wild kids. Judge Hodgman, I'm trying to imagine what a spring break for an MFA program is. Do they have a wet sweater contest?

Yeah, exactly. It's a damp cardigan contest at Emily Dickinson's home in Amherst, Massachusetts. Actually, it was Nathaniel Hawthorne's home. We did. Really? Yeah.

So you went to, is that in Salem? Yeah, we pretended we were working at the custom house and we looked out at the ocean from there. Wow. Because seriously, nothing says vacation like some good old-fashioned screenshot. That is true.

Okay, so you wild kids took the 75 flights required to travel from Montana to Boston. Was there a direct flight or where did you fly through? I'm just curious. No, no, no, no. We had to fly through Denver. Oh, so you went through the Denver. Did you get a chance to look at the crazy airport there? Well, yeah.

It's kind of a regional flight. I think we end up in kind of the bus terminal area of the Denver airport, so we don't necessarily see all that it has to offer. There are a lot of conspiracy theories. You know about this, right, Jake Tapper? I don't know the conspiracy. The conspiracy theories surrounding the Denver International Airport? No, I'm afraid I don't. Will you please enlighten me? This is why I'm here. It's not for the salary. It's for the wisdom. If you go to the Denver International Airport, there is a capstone that was put there during its dedication ceremony with a Masonic symbol on it. The capstone is dedicated by the New World Airport Commission sometime in the 90s. And then there's a Masonic symbol.

And no one knows what the New World Airport Commission sometime in the 90s, and then there's a Masonic symbol. And no one knows what the New World Airport Commission is. And that term, New World plus Masonic symbol, has led a lot of people who are concerned about a Masonic conspiracy to impose a one-world government over the United States. over the United States leads a lot of people to suspect that the Denver International Airport is just, is but the foothold of, I think, a secret installation buried underneath the Denver International Airport from which world takeover will begin. You're not aware of this? No, but I smell an Emmy. Ladies, were you aware of this?

No, but I've never had a smooth landing into that airport. Yeah. Surprise. Right, because of the secret Masonic winds. Exactly. All right. I'm sorry. I did not mean to go off into that rat hole.

I just get excited when I hear about layovers in Denver. Okay, so from Denver to Boston, Elizabeth, you were in the aisle seat? Yes. I'm trying to remember if on that flight we were in the same row throughout it, but I would have been in an aisle seat. Give me an example of one situation, Melissa, where you felt Elizabeth just was not moving fast enough. Well, on the first leg of that flight from Missoula, Montana to Denver, it got to be a really, really difficult landing. There was a blizzard. It was really, really awful. And we finally landed. And I was in the window seat. She was in the aisle seat. But I was very eager to get off.

I wasn't going to rush in front of anyone else, but I was just ready to get off. but I was just ready to get off. And Elizabeth is very kind and always looks behind our row to see if there's people with multiple carry-ons or just people who seem antsy in any way. And she always just tells them like, okay, just you can go ahead. And I just feel like sometimes I want to be the one who gets to go ahead.

You want to come first in Elizabeth's heart and deplaning strategy? Exactly. Yeah. Deplaning strategy first, heart as well. Elizabeth, why are you looking down the aisle when you clearly have a friend directly behind you in distress? I suppose, I mean, may I offer a counter example from that same flight that shows that I do put Melissa first in my heart and mind, which is that it was a very rough landing. And I think I did a pretty good job as maybe I wasn't as

nervous as Melissa. And I kept her engaged in a conversation to take her mind off the fact that the landing was a bit scary. That's true. That was very thoughtful. Your argument is you spoke to your friend? You had a conversation to your friend? No, I mean... That was just a... You had a conversation with your friend? Well... Elizabeth, wait, wait, wait.

I had a very... Order! I'll have order! I'm sorry. Okay. I palmed my desk so hard that my microphone fell down and I have to lift it up again. Do you need me to remove anybody? No, thank you, Jake.

But no, I appreciate that. If you would call down to room service, though, and get me a Diet Coke and a Caesar salad, I'd like that very much. Mimosa? You know, the book tour is special. Now, Elizabeth, when you're deplaning and you're in the aisle seat, you look down the aisle. What do you look to see there before you determine whether or not it's safe for you to proceed? Well, I mean, I do the usual stand up and look around the plane or don't stand up, wait and see if there's room to stand. And I'm not intentionally looking for who I will allow to go in front of me. I'm just kind of checking out

the situation. What would cause you to pause back there? Is it true that you will pause for people who have multiple carry-ons? I would say I would be more likely to pause back there? Is it true that you will pause for people who have multiple carry-ons? I would say I would be more likely to pause for someone who is up in the aisle and clearly has no carry-ons. And this is assuming that we've started actually moving off of the plane. This isn't like the standing around portion waiting for the doors to open. So if someone was standing, you know, next to my seat or a little behind it with nothing in their hands ready to go, and I maybe need to grab a bag from the overhead compartment, I would let that person go on in front. Okay. You understand that people have multiple carry-ons.

Those people are monsters because they should be checking their bags. I would agree. Okay. Unless they're going to miss it. Unless they're going to miss a connecting flight. Yeah. If they're in a big rush because they need to catch a flight or if they have a child who has to get off the plane right that second and they're there, I'm not waiting. That's a different, that's a different, that's a different circumstance. I mean, but it sounds to me, the first thing that you went to was maybe it's someone who has extra carry-ons. Maybe it's someone who has extra carry-ons. Maybe it's someone who has no carry-ons. Maybe there's just someone who deserves to get off the plane before me. I don't care. I mean,

I don't think of it in those terms, but I see how that might be the interpretation. Melissa, why don't you sit in an aisle seat so you can do whatever you want? Well, I like to look out the window and see the view. Yeah, but you know what? You make choices in life. You want to have control over everyone around you? That's the aisle seat. You want to be at the mercy of strangers and caught and trapped forever and have a pretty view? That's the window seat. The airline offers you these choices for a reason. What kind of person do you want to be? Do you want to control your life or do you want to be at the mercy of your friend?

That's what that choice means. Why can't you take responsibility for that choice? Well, I guess I would say that I still want to be able to enjoy the flight, you know, especially on these really regional flights we've had to take in and out of Montana. They fly really low and you have a nice view the whole time. But if I could I respond to an earlier point that Elizabeth made about people who maybe just have to get off the plane soonest. Okay. I have been on flights where the flight attendant makes an announcement and says like these specific people need to leave the plane first because they have a really quick connection or something else is going on. And I feel like we all can kind of rest easy knowing that there's someone in charge of these situations

and that person is the one who has the responsibility and authority to determine who gets off the plane first and nobody else needs to worry about it. Correct. So you're saying in the absence of a clear dictatorship by flight attendant, Elizabeth should just make a run for it, regardless of what she wants to do in order to accommodate you better. Well, no. Okay. First of all, I think-

Let me ask you this. In the absence of clear authority instructing you otherwise, why don't you just scramble over the middle person and Elizabeth like an animal? Because I'm not unruly and I don't want to add to the chaos. I just want to be asked. I'm not even saying that I insist on deplaning first. I just want to be asked. That's all I'm saying. I see. Elizabeth, why is that unreasonable? I don't know. I think if you really need to get off the plane fast, it's your responsibility to speak up. No one's going to ask you. no one's gonna no one's gonna ask you no one's gonna in no in no court in the land would condemn you to the fate of having to ask perfect strangers every time if it's okay if you wait a second before you get out the aisle this really just is going to come down to you and

melissa and whether or not it is reasonable between friends for Melissa to attempt to compel you to ask her permission before you give courtesy to someone else. Because beyond that, I mean, forget it. Well, I guess I don't think it's outrageously unreasonable, but I also don't really think it's necessary under the assumption that we're kind of all on this airplane together and we can have patience for our fellow travelers. Wait a minute. You don't think it's unreasonable?

I'm sorry. Is this podcast called Judge Elizabeth Aisle-Sitter-Wait-Around? I'll decide that. No, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to argue with you. I thought you wanted me to. No, no, no. You're trying to tell me my opinion.

I'm forming my opinion. I'm going to go into chambers. Hey, Bailiff Jake, is my mimosa ready? Absolutely, no. You're trying to tell me my opinion. I'm forming my opinion. I'm going to go into chambers. Hey, Bailiff Jake, is my mimosa ready? Absolutely, sir. Melissa and Elizabeth, please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Please be respectful. I think I'm just going to go over here into the stairwell here at the Minnesota Radisson and drink this mimosa. While he's doing this, Elizabeth and Melissa, if you don't mind, I wouldn't mind asking you a few questions. Elizabeth, he seemed to be coming down pretty hard on a godlike complex

that he was suggesting you have. Do you feel like he was a little tough on you in that regard, that your need to control everything for your comparison of yourself with a pilot in an airplane? Well, I mean, I didn't take any offense. I don't think he came down too hard. I think he's just doing his job. That's the appropriate response.

And Melissa, I have to say, I mean, I never thought of it that way before, but the judge is wise and he can put it in perspective. You do make choices in life and you choose to have a better view than your friend. And you can't have your cake and eat it too. Wait, wait, wait. When did this become Judge Jake Tapper? I would instruct the bailiff to keep his opinions to himself as well.

I'm back. I'm mimosas. I'm ready to judge. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman reenters the courtroom. Get him up, Jake. I think that Melissa raises a good point, which is when a flight attendant comes on and says there is a close connection and would you please be considerate enough to let certain people leave the plane first. First, it reiterates the fact that every airplane is lawless anarchy that is held together by only the merest sheen of civility. Everyone hates each other. It is impossibly close quarters and everyone's working very, very hard to get along.

very, very hard to get along. And in that lawless environment, basically you have to make up the law every time based on a very fluid set of circumstances. And you need to judge the comfort level of the people around you, particularly when you've landed, you have to really become aware of the comfort level of the people that you've been sharing air and very limited space and probably farts with for previous two hours. Everyone's mad and they want out. And getting out is really kind of an amazing testament to humans' ability to create order where everyone wants chaos. In this case, I appreciate the mad panic that Melissa feels to get out of the human fart capsule that she has been in for so long, and the anger that she feels at her friend Elizabeth for showing

courtesy to others in the plane who perhaps do not even have MFAs in creative writing. But the reality is that Elizabeth has chosen a seat that confers upon her the authority that is otherwise missing. It is the authority of force, basically. It is the authority of might makes right. She blocks the passage. It is her decision as to when to move. The point I'm trying to make is that unfortunately, Melissa, when you choose that seat, you choose to submit to the authority of whatever crazy person is sitting in the aisle, not to mention the lunatic who is stuck in the middle. That person wants to murder you both.

You're lucky that you have a friend in the aisle. And yes, it would be nice if Elizabeth turned to you and gave you an update on the evacuation process. And you know what, Elizabeth? Maybe you should do that from time to time, if only to shut your friend up. But she made the choice that we're all given. Aisle seat allows you power, but no view. Window seat allows you view, but no power. And I also would argue, no view. Therefore, I find in the favor of the complainant, who is probably the least complainy complainant

we've ever had to deal with here, Elizabeth, the aisle sitter. And I sentence Melissa, the window sitter, to get an aisle seat. Maybe across the aisle from her friend. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Melissa, this must be disappointing. Well, it is disappointing to me. I think Judge Hodgman rules. That is all. Melissa, this must be disappointing. Well, it is disappointing to me.

I think Judge Hodgman makes some good points. I think it will be hard for me to make sure that I get an aisle seat. But I do like his view that Elizabeth is kind of my alley on the aisle. So I think I'll just try to see the situation that way going forward. Elizabeth, how do you feel about my ruling, Elizabeth? Pretty good, right? I don't want to hold it over melissa's head at all i feel like because you're you know what because you're nice that's your problem i know you don't i know you don't want to gloat when that thing goes i am satisfied let me let me give you some advice when that thing goes boom stand up and

get the hell out of the plane I do my best I think Melissa is wrong in this one but I'm telling you something don't look back don't look down the aisle you're always going to see some sad sack back there that you're going to want to wait for those people are parasites

they want to destroy you thank you very much guys I look forward to destroy you. Thank you very much, guys. I look forward to seeing you at the Emily Dickinson Museum of Isolation in Amherst sometime soon. Thank you. Well, we have some plane-related disputes from various and sundry Americans who need your help. So with your permission, Judge. Oh, yeah. No, I'd like to clear the topic. Jeremiah writes, quote,

My wife and I have a dispute that she will not give up. Now, just to remind not you, of course, sir, but any listeners. Any listeners. Any possible lost soul who's listening to this. If anybody's made it this deep, just to remind people who Captain Sully Sullenberger is, he's the one who saved the lives of 150 people when he successfully landed a commercial plane on the Hudson River when its engines were disabled, I believe, after it flew into a flock of birds of some sort.

So in any case, Jeremiah's wife argues that Sully Sullenberg is not a hero because he did not risk his own life to save the lives of his passengers, but rather was simply performing his job. Jeremiah argues that anyone who saves the lives of people, regardless that he was in the process of saving his own life, is still a hero. This fight has gone on for the full two years since Sully saved all those people, heroically or not. Jeremiah's wife is incorrect. Chesley Sully Sullenberger is a hero every time he does his job, whether or not he makes an emergency landing on the Hudson River.

That guy takes people's lives into his hands every day and delivers them safely to their loved ones. The guy puts a thing that should not be able to fly into the air and flies it safely and lands it, and then on top of that, made split-second decisions after creaming a goose with his jet engine that many other pilots might not have been quick enough to make in order to save everybody's lives. It is true that he saved his own life, but really, he could save his own life every day by quitting and managing a rental car fleet.

I'm sorry, but I think it's pretty heroic by any definition, except the definition of American geese council. They think he's a monster. Do we have any other animal related? This is an email with a clarification, not a question, from Lucy B. I believe this is a reference to the case that you had with two gentlemen, one of whose father kept saying the word cow. Cow. Yeah, I assume that's what this is about.

She says, as a former Star Chapter farmer in my FFA, Future Farmers of America chapter. That's FFA, by the way, for people who don't know, it's Fist Fighters of America. I feel compelled to tell you

that the term cows should only be used to refer to a group of female bovines who have produced a calf. The proper term for a group of mixed-sex bovine is cattle. If a bovine is male, it is either a bull or a steer, depending on the presence of the animal's testicles. Steers are castrated males, as you know. the animal's testicles. Steers are castrated males, as you know. Also,

contrary to the ideas expressed in the podcast, most cows do live a long, healthy life as long as they can produce calves. Bulls also live a long, healthy life as long as they keep breeding the cows. Steers are frequently cut down in their prime, but they are allowed to indulge in an intense regimen of

fattening before they die. Interesting terminology there as an aside they are allowed to indulge in an intense regimen of fattening before they've got, interesting terminology there as an aside, allowed to eat them. Yeah, they're given the present of all the corn they can eat until they're shot in the head with a bolt. Finally, cows do not produce eggs for human consumption. Indeed,

eggs cannot be classified as dairy products. As a current lawyer, let me say that I enjoy your podcast very much. You certainly have a talent for handing down well-rendered, thoughtful judgments. Well, well, flattery will get you everywhere, especially if it is administered over Skype. There's one thing I can't stand. It is a bovine know-it-all.

Yes, I know cows are female cattle, and I know what a bull cattle. And I know what a bull is and I know what a steer is. And I especially know that cows do not give eggs. You see, what happened there, Bailiff Jake, was that the gentleman in question, the person who loves

I guess it would be fair to say cattle, not just cows, but the father who takes a kind of Buddhist pleasure in saying the word cow over and over again was probably referring to bulls and

cows and steer and all the bovinids I guess you would say in that class, although he was specifically talking about how cows gave us milk. And he did dress up, and he dressed up as a cow. Right.

He had others. And he did suggest that cows gave us milk, so that would be a cow, for sure. But he also suggested that cows gave us eggs. And I think he just misspoke. And I neglected to catch him on it and dress down this poor old, probably insane man.

To the satisfaction of many of the podcast listeners, such that I've been getting tweets aplenty about how, oh, you really messed up this time, Judge John Hodgman, by not getting angry at that old man for saying that cows give us eggs. And then, you know, the whole other raft of Twitterers saying, well, they do give us eggs, just not eggs we can eat because all mammals have eggs in their ovaries. I'm like, oh, Twitter, shut up. The point I'm trying to make is,

I missed it. I have not. Please don't George R.R. Martin me about it and peck me to death with your tweets. I'm sorry that I did not get angry at this old man to your satisfaction. Meanwhile, Lucy B., I take it under extreme advisement. I will not refer to the overall group of cattle as cows again in the future. I'll refer to them as cattle. But I do have to ask you, you say the term cows should only be used to refer to a group of

female bovines who have produced a calf. I think you mean who have individually each produced a calf, not a group of female bovines who together have produced a calf, because I do not think it takes a village to raise a calf. Is there a term, Lucy B., if you're so smart animal husbandry know it all, for a female bovine who has not yet produced a calf? because that isn't covered in your little screen here and i'd like to know it because i'm curious i'm not very upset how how oh bailiff jake thank you so much for filling in today for bailiff jesse whom we must uh share i presume you share with me the excitement and overjoyment of him giving birth to a young bailiff's son. Thanks, Jesse and Judge. Thank you so much for this read.

The Judge John Hodgman Podcast is a production of MaximumFun.org. Special thanks goes out to all the folks who donate to support this show and all the shows at MaximumFun.org. This show was produced by Julia Smith and edited by Matt Gorling. Matt's own comedy podcast is Super Ego, which you can find in iTunes or online at gosuperego.com. You can find John Hodgman online at areasofmyexpertise.com. I've been your guest, Bailiff, Jake Tapper, senior White House correspondent for ABC News. If you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, email us and be sure to include your phone number. The email is hodgman at maximumfund.org. You can also join us to discuss this case on our forums at maximumfund.org slash forum. Thanks for listening.