Judge John Hodgman - Father Gnaws Beast

Episode Date: January 22, 2014

Sisters file suit against their meat-loving dad.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, Father gnaws beast. Sisters Kim and Jen bring the case against their dad, Rick. They're at odds when it comes to ordering food for the whole family, since Kim is a vegetarian and Rick loves meat. Can Judge Hodgman cater to all tastes? We'll find out. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. On other pages, I have sung the praises of how the pig's snout and belly both have that special lip-sticking quality of fat and flesh merging. But this occurs in no part of the animal as wonderfully as on the tail. Like an ice cream on a stick, a pig's tail offers up all the above on a well-behaved set of bones.

By the by, dealing with any slightly hairy extremities of pig, I recommend a throwaway Bic razor, hot towels and shaving cream not required. You must ask your butcher for long tails. Bailiff Jesse, swear them in. Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? Oh, yes, I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he's on the paleo diet, wherein he only eats people who are on the paleo diet? I do. I do.

Very well, Judge Hodgman. Jen, Kim, and Rick, you may be seated. I apologize for the buzz marketing of Bic razors as I entered the courtroom. It's not my brand, but that is a direct quote from a piece of culture. And for an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors, can any of you, either of you, any one of you name that piece of culture? I cannot, unfortunately. This is Jen and I cannot. Thank you, Jen, for saying your name. Okay, Rick. I know that's you, Rick. I take it in my name. My voice is different enough. Sorry, I'm Kim. Thank you, kim uh it will take me a little while to get all your voices sorted out but i do know rick's voice rick this case is brought

against you by your daughter jen and kim do you join uh jen in this suit uh yes absolutely this case is brought against you by your daughters r Rick, who complain not merely of your carnivorism, but your imposition of your carnivorism upon them. Before we go further, may I ask, sir, have you ever had a pig's tail to eat? Oh, yes, definitely. You haven't? And what were the circumstances? I like all parts of the pig. Well, then you should have known, sir, that the piece of culture that I was quoting, the very famous cookbook called Nose to Tail Eating by Fergus Henderson, a British chef who started a restaurant in the late 90s called St. John's and now has a bunch of different restaurants. And Fergus Henderson is the fellow who first started the big marrow bone resurgence in the Western world. He started roasting marrow bones and serving them to the customers in his restaurant, something that might have been served on a country farm table for many generations,

now brought into an equivalent of a fine dining restaurant. And then that started this marrow bone craze over here in the United States. I live in New York City. You guys live in the Chicago area? That's right. Yeah, we live in Chicago. So you've got to have seen some of those crazy marrow bones, right? Oh, yeah.

I love marrow bones. Yeah, no kidding. And, you know, Chicago is home to some of the crazy marabons, right? Oh, yeah. I love marabons. Yeah, no kidding. And, you know, Chicago is home to some of the great carnivore restaurants of all time. But nose-to-tail eating, as described by Fergus Henderson, quote, it means it would be disingenuous to the animal not to make the most of the whole beast, that is to eat as much of that thing that you kill as possible. And you, sir, seem to live by that code. Is that not true, Rick?

Yes, I do. And in Chicago, we use everything from the pig, but the squeal is an old adage. Yeah. Where did you have your pig's tail? When I was a poor college student, I just bought a number of pig parts. Tail, ears,

jowls. All right. Kim and Jen? Yes. I find in Rick's favor, you guys can go away. I just want to hear Rick's story now. What college did you attend? I went to Oberlin College. Oberlin College.

Where I got my wife and where Jen went also. Go Yeoman. Mm-hmm. Jen, you went to Oberlin as well? I did, but you should know, Your Honor, that no one at Oberlin cares about sports. Yeah, I know. Neither do I. That's why I love the Oberlin Yeoman so much.

Because they're the team that doesn't care about sports and also that sort of rhymes, but not exactly. Jan, when were you graduated from Oberlin College? I graduated in 2004. Okay, so you're a young person. You didn't know the famous artisanal pencil sharpener David Reese when you were there. No, I did not. I had to sharpen my pencils myself. That's right.

So, Rick, you went to Oberlin, and that's farm country, is it not? Oh, yeah. So where did you buy your picture? It's an oasis of culture in a desert of conservatism. Just like every college, right? I suppose. Maybe not Berkeley. Yeah, right. Just like every college, right? I suppose. Maybe not Berkeley. Yeah, right. Just like every college in most states.

So, but it was also an oasis of pig parts, I would imagine. Where did you get your pig parts? At Fazio's food store. Okay. And you got jowls, you got tails? Tails, jowls, ears. Yeah. The ears were a little bit of a stretch.

They're kind of tough. No. Not a lot of meat on them. I know, but they're delicious to gnaw on. Hog maws are very good. No kidding. And what about the tail? How'd you cook those up?

I think I just kind of boiled it until it was semi-soft and then gnawed on it. That sounds gross. Yeah, good recipe. That reminds me of my very favorite recipe of all time from the cookbook Mary Land's Louisiana Cookery, which came out in the middle of the last century, the 20th century at one point or another, and had a long section. I remember the 20th century. Yeah, or another, and had a long section. I remember the 20th century. Yeah. Okay, Rick, I'm talking now.

In a long section that... I'm still talking, Rick. John, who's talking? Oh, now you are. It had a long section on... Got it. Hmm. All right, everybody shut their pie hole, because you are about to learn how to cook

owls. All right, everybody shut their pie hole because you are about to learn how to cook owls. It's a long section on cooking game, including a great recipe for squirrel head pot pie. And these were recipes that were not presented in any, this is before irony had been invented. These were actual, you know, legit recipes of poverty and necessity from the Louisiana countryside. And squirrel head pot pie was one. And the other one was how to cook owls. And the recipe essentially amounted to scald the owl so that you can pluck it, take out its innards, quarter it, obviously behead it, quarter it, and then fricassee it as you would a blackbird.

Exactly. Okay, so enough carnivorous digression. Jen, and I hope I did not I did hope I did not gross you out Kim because part of this issue is that you are a vegetarian and Jen brings this case on your behalf Jen what is your what is your beef so to speak with your dad you answer while I casually kill myself for making a pun well um I'm not a vegetarian I like meat, but I support my sister's choice to eat vegetarian. And I think my dad is her to tears in meat-heavy restaurants probably, I would say, half a dozen times. So I guess I have brought the suit to seek a little bit more consideration. Kim, can you tell me how your father has brought you to tears?

Oh, gosh. Well, there have been quite a few times, mostly just kind of, you know, going to, you know, the time that he made me go to a Polish restaurant, a Polish smorgasbord buffet style restaurant, where there was, you know, probably maybe two things that hopefully didn't have meat in them. probably maybe two things that hopefully didn't have meat in them. And then, you know, kind of like just babbles on a lot and about how I shouldn't be a vegetarian. And, you know, well, that was, you know, that's an old script. It was more when I was a teenager and I newly become a vegetarian and he was very unsupportive of it. Right. You, you, you are all adults now,

except, except for Rick, who is enjoying the second childhood of middle age. Yes. Right. So, so this was, he used to ride you when you were a teenager for your life choices. That's, I'm not bringing that into my court because that's, that's the role of a father to ridicule you. Yes. And then now it mostly just comes down to excluding me and ordering at restaurants and, you know, making ordering very actively difficult. And how does that happen exactly, Jen? Because in your complaint, you mentioned that you guys all go out to dinner and eat family style. Is that correct? We often do, particularly when we dine at a cuisine where that is a common custom.

We go out to Chinese restaurants a lot. So in that case, there are four of us, and three of us are happy to eat mostly vegetarian food. mostly vegetarian food. My dad will usually complain very bitterly if we don't get at least, I would say, 75% meat-based dishes. Okay. And the fourth in this case is your mom? Correct. All right. Now, when you say your dad complains very bitterly, I'm having a hard time picturing this. Could you do an imitation of your dad complaining bitterly about your choice of non-meat-centric foods at the Chinese restaurant? I might let Kim tackle that one. She's well known for her impressions of our father.

Okay. Kim, I'm looking for you. You may proceed. Okay. Well, you know, say that we were talking about an appetizer and my mom and I, say we're at a Chinese restaurant. My mom and I say, oh, how about, you know, the lettuce wraps? My dad's like, oh, Kimberly, no, I don't think that we should do that. Kimberly, what can't we just get can't we get barbecue pork ribs instead, please, Kimberly. And then, you know, kind of go to my sister and appeal to her and try and

convince her to get some kind of meat filled thing rather than whatever my mom and I decided. Now, Rick. Yes. Are you aware that your daughter Kim is a vegetarian? Oh, yes. She became a vegetarian May 3rd, 1999, a day that lives in infamy. I trust you keep it in your diary of bitter observations. Yes, I do.

And you can tell the difference between your vegetarian daughter and your non-vegetarian daughter, correct? Oh, yes, of course. And do you dispute that you actually did or might hypothetically suggest to Kim that she order pork ribs instead of lettuce wraps? No, that's grossly untrue. All right. I would never have said that. How do you respond to these accusations? Oh, well, okay.

I don't think that, well, first of all, I think we should always have one dish that Kim will eat. One dish? And maybe even two. Uh-huh. Are you counting the bread plate? Uh, no, and I'm not counting the ketchup or mustard or soy sauce either. Okay.

So let's say, hypothetically, let's stick to the Chinese restaurant cuisine. How many entrees would you order? Normally, we'd order four. Do you object, Kim or Jen? Is that about right? Yeah, that is about right. That's about right. It is so hard for me not to call you Jim and Ken right now.

I'm having such a difficulty with this. Kim and Jen, that is about right. And what percentage of those do you think should have meat, and what percentage of those do you think should be vegetarian, Rick? Well, I think that Kimberly should certainly have one dish that she can eat. I mean, then I'm not a monster. I will decide that, sir. But I think we should have, out of four dishes,

we should have two or three that are meat. But one of my biggest objections is that Kimberly will order vegetables that I won't eat. What vegetables will you not eat, sir? Just really nasty ones like broccoli, cauliflower, brussel sprouts, green beans, asparagus, artichokes, things like that. What are the vegetables you will eat? Is it just dandelion greens? No, I won't eat those.

They're bitter. Well, I eat normal vegetables, cabbage and any color of pepper, although green is the worst one. Eggplant, zucchini. Squashes. So a lot of squashes. No other squashes. Squash is borderline borderline squash is kind of borderline okay i'm trying to find those sweet potatoes okay i'm trying to find some some method to your madness here mushrooms okay that's a yeah but but what about leafy green vegetables well those are the kind i don't like the overly green or the really hardcore kind of vegetables.

No, okay. And what about, like, if you go to a steakhouse, will you get creamed spinach? God, no. Okay. Rick, you may leave. I find in Jim and Ken's favor. I find in favor of the scurvy. Why not? I find it in favor of the scurvy.

Well, I want the record to show that you just have to look at me and see that I'm meant to be carnivorous. I have very pointy canine teeth. I have type O blood, which is the most primitive kind of blood. And I have low cholesterol and I have award-winning triglycerides. My doctor said I have the lowest triglycerides he's ever seen. So your argument essentially is that like a Shiba Inu, you're a primitive breed? Well, I don't know about that, but I think I'm meant to eat meat. I think meat agrees with me.

Did you submit your triglyceride award into evidence, sir? Is it a trophy of some kind? Well, it's kind of an informal award. It was just that my doctor said it's the lowest one he's ever seen. I had 14. That's very nice for you. Mm-hmm. And I'm glad that your personal decision is not destroying you from the inside.

If it were, I think I would make a change. And I'm not talking about your personal decision to eat meat. I'm talking about your personal decision to not eat a lot of things that are very healthy for you and good for you and good to eat. But that's your... What is your opposition to broccoli? Is it texture or... Try to talk as though you are not talking to yourself for once.

Try to talk as though you are trying to explain to another human being how you feel. Well, it's the texture, the flavor, the appearance. Have you actually ever eaten broccoli? By mistake, once. What year was that? It was like sometime in the 70s. What about salad? I have

never eaten a salad. You have never eaten a salad? Unless you call it food salad. Not even a Snickers salad? No. Jell-O salad? Ambrosia salad? Jell-O salad. Chicken salad? No. Oh. i think they have mayonnaise in that

don't they now now the divide between us uh grows do you not eat mayonnaise no i hate mayonnaise i don't like very many condiments. Mostly, but you would be, so you would be happy just eating meat all the live long day. Is that correct? No, that's not really true. I like non-nasty vegetables. I like potatoes.

Can we stop saying non-nasty vegetables? Why don't you just say certain vegetables? We don't have to have a value judgment placed on it. Okay. All right. I'll try. Potatoes and steak. Yes, I love potatoes. Right. Tomatoes? Uh, cooked.

Cooked tomatoes in a sauce? Yes, tomato sauce. Like on a chicken parm? Uh, yeah. Yeah, sure. A tuber and a fruit respectively, for those keeping score at home. Yeah. What about legumes? How do you feel about legumes? Beans? Oh, I love legumes.

I'll eat any bean that exists except green beans, which aren't really beans. They're immature bean pods. I guess... Well, see, now you have mustered some evidence. I like where you're... I like the science you're laying down on me. What about lentils?

Oh, I love lentils. Rice? Yeah, I like rice. All right. So how often do you guys go out? How often does this come up in your lives, Jen? Well, when I am, I live a little bit far away from my family, but I am home often. I would say on average, we go out to a shared meal probably 15 to 20 times a year. That's very nice. And Kim, do you live at home with Rick or do you have a life and house of your own? I do have a life and house of my own. I live probably about 10, 15 minutes away from them in Chicago.

Okay, good. And what percentage of your Chinese meal do you think Kim should be vegetarian dishes? Well, Rick has suggested 25. And then I think because he knows that he's losing this case, he then suggested 50% could be something that you could eat. I don't really necessarily believe that he would agree to 50%. And, you know, one problem is that if it had, if it was actually like, even if I just get one dish at a Chinese restaurant, he wants to refuse to let me get, you know, broccoli with garlic sauce or like green beans, Szechuan string beans, or anything that he would consider,

you know, a nasty vegetable. A nasty vegetable. Could I enter some evidence in my favor in this case? Go ahead. Part of my objection is that I am the one who often eats the leftovers. So I don't mind getting vegetarian things if they're vegetables that I'll eat and the leftovers won't get thrown away. I see. Because you're a human garbage pail, you get to eat whatever you want. That's my role in the family, among others.

What is your favorite meat to eat, sir? Probably beef tongue. You are hardcore, my friend. In fact, Kimberly's dog, Gambit, we bond over meat. Oh, sure. And once in a while, maybe once a month, we'll have noche de la lengua. Yeah, you both eat pig's ears, for example. I do that, too. Yes. And we'll cook a tongue de la lengua. Yeah, you both eat pig's ears, for example. That too, yes.

And we'll cook a tongue and eat it together. You and the dog? Yeah. Oh, I can't wait to be as weird a dad as you are, sir. Jen, you introduced some evidence as well, some photos of your dad, also known as Pig. Correct. Okay, so here we have a picture here, and these will all, of course, be on the MaximumFun.org website, the Judge John Hodgman portion thereof. Here we have evidence marked A, the pig, that's your father, eating a heaping plate of turkey while wearing one of his favorites, a turkey leg T-shirt.

And this, in case you don't have a chance to look at the website, is just a t-shirt that says turkey leg on it and has a picture of a turkey leg. This shirt was procured from Disney World, where he once bought, all right, he once brought a clean sock with him. Kim, will you, what, what happened with a sock? Well, so whenever we go to this Florida theme park, my, my dad likes to always get the turkey legs and it's like a big thing. Like it's, you know, he talks about it the whole way there and everything.

Sure. And so it's the only, it's the only place in the world you can get them. Right. Of course. And so he's, you know, sniffing around the park all day, trying to find the turkey leg cart and he finally finds it and he sits down and eats part of course. And so he's, you know, sniffing around the park all day trying to find the turkey leg cart. And he finally finds it and he sits down and eats part of it. And then he pulls out of his backpack, which he carries around with him all the time, a sock that he had specifically, you know, laundered and brought with him to carry his turkey leg around in.

Well, there was a plastic bag inside it. There was a plastic bag inside the sock? You had lined the sock? Well, this was actually an impromptu emergency measure. I bought a turkey leg at the cart, and we were going on a ride, and I couldn't carry it in openly. I had to conceal it. So I asked them for a doggy bag. They looked like they didn't know what I was talking about. So in an emergency, I found a clean sock and a plastic bag and put the turkey leg in the bag

and put the bag in the sock. How in an emergency did you find a clean sock in a plastic bag? In his backpack. In my backpack. I see. I have lots of things in my backpack. He also keeps emergency iron rations, as he calls them, in his backpack at all times.

What is that? Which is just a bag of beef jerky. I see. I'm just picturing you, Pig, looking through the backpack, trying to find something useful,

and just being like, I have a plastic bag, maybe I can use that. Astrolabe. No. Globe of Mars. Not necessary. Sex tant.

No. The sock was the best thing I could find. A wooga horn. No. I understand why you might put your turkey. First of all, of course, they had no doggy bags for your turkey legs at, was it Universal Studios? Where was the place for that? Harry Potter World.

Yeah, it was. All right. Stop buzz marketing the theme parks. Oh, sorry. Yeah. Because, of course, they had no doggy bags at the turkey leg stand because from their point of view the turkey leg stand is to sell a turkey leg to someone they take a bite of it as a novelty and then they throw it away not me well i appreciate

i just i appreciate your nose to tail eating of even the thing that is neither nose nor tail that whole leg so i kind of i appreciate your thrift what i don't understand is if you had the plastic bag why the sock was it was it was the sock an insulating device to keep it warm or was it something to hide your shame uh i think that maybe it wasn't a plastic bag maybe it was more like saran wrap or something and without the sock it didn't kind of got unraveled it's not getting it's not getting any less weird in your mary poppins carpet bag of of old junk that you're carrying around with you all right next photo pig is holding up a gift from your niece, a gift of various cured meats and salamis.

Yes. Lovely gift. And according to Kim, this was absolutely the present he opened with the most exclamation of joy. Kim, what exclamation of joy did your father give when he opened his bag of meats? You know, mostly just a lot of, oh, and very excitement and coveting it and kind of trying to hide it away from everyone else. Usually he's not a big Christmas person, so he doesn't get that excited about other gifts. Now, what's the deal with this niece?

Why is she buttering up your father with all this meat? Does he have a large estate that she's trying to steal from you, Kim? Yeah, she is his only niece, so maybe she is trying to steal our inheritance. It's possible. Well, she just knows me. She knows what I appreciate. Oh, unlike your daughters? Is that what you're trying to say, sir?

No, my daughters do too, but they have an agenda. What is their agenda, sir? Putting down my carnivorous nature. Is that the secret liberal agenda that you two are pushing on this guy? Just like you're trying to convince us that there's global warming, you secretly just want to push down,

you want to make fun of his carnivorous nature? I actually will note that most of the many items of clothing he owns that have meat-based illustrations on them were gifts from us. Yes. Yes. Thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah. Especially the Spam shirt. Oh, sorry. Rick, what does the term glomming on mean to you? Just, oh, you're probably referring to the pizza ordering yes that's part of the complaint as well well we go to a pizza restaurant which i won't name um a locally you know a locally owned pizza restaurant with some of the best pizza in the world this being chicago of course i have no idea what you're talking about go on he's talking about some of the best

casseroles in the world some of the best pizza casseroles some of the best pizza hot dish in the world i i like the new york style pizza too well that makes one of you anyway uh so i like to go to this restaurant and i like to order steak. Rick, you know the best pizza in the world comes from New Haven, Connecticut, right? Oh, I didn't even know they made pizza there. Rick, do your homework. Okay. It's one thing to know that a green bean is an immature bean pod. But what's the use of knowing that if you don't even know where the best pizza in the world comes from?

I will Google it after the show. Thank you. All right, next. You were saying, all right, so you're ordering pizza. Okay, so we're ordering pizza, and I like to get a steak on the side and just glom onto somebody else's pizza, but I can't do that if they have ingredients that I won't eat.

I won't call them nasty. do that if they have ingredients that I won't eat. I won't call them nasty. So, Kim, what does your weird dad mean by glomming on? By glomming on, he means that he wants to order his own giant plate

of steak and potatoes, and usually he orders this really meaty nacho dish at that restaurant as well as an appetizer. Nacho Charlie's dream. And then he wants to... What was that little thing you just threw in there, sir? It's a wonderful dish. It's called Nacho Charlie's dream.

And what is Nacho Charlie's dream? Nacho Charlie's dream is nachos covered with cheese covered with chili. Oh. Actually, I think the chili comes first and then the cheese. And then you

try to steal some pizza too? And then he tries to dictate what we get on our pizza. Dictate's a strong word. Dictate is a true word. Veto. Advise. Kim and Rick, be quiet for a second. Jen?

Yes. What's going on with the pizza? So my mom and my sister and I will usually split a large deep dish pizza. And because we like vegetables, we will often want to put vegetables on the pizza. But my dad, who has ordered his own steak entree, will, again, I would say complain bitterly if we try to get vegetables on the pizza because he'd like to glom on to at least one piece, which actually means two to three pieces before the pizza is gone. Rick, I'm looking at pictures of you here, and you seem like a pretty fit dude. Well, thank you. I mean, you don't seem like an obese person. No, I'm not.

I run a hiking group, too, so I'm active. Yeah, I mean, what do you expend, 7,000 calories a day? Well, I walk about three miles a day, actually. All right. And what is your age, if I may ask? I'm 64. And those triglycerides. How do I do this, Rick?

How do I live your life? Just kind of stumble into it by accident, I think, because that's kind of what I did. And that's not quite true. I plan my daily life to include a lot of exercise. And I also practice the warrior diet. Go on. Long ago, there was no food to eat in the morning you know you went out and you hunted your food and then you ate it at night because it was there right so i go to work you know which is

what is your what is your job i work for i'm a cheese tester actually i work for social security okay so my normal routine is i either ride my bicycle or walk to the train station and then i walk from the train station and then i walk at two breaks and lunch and then i do the same thing at the end of the day and i don't eat much of anything all day i have a thermos full of tea and i'll sometimes eat trail mix and things like that but no but that's about all i eat all day just whatever you could whatever a warrior might have foraged from the wild as he was searching a boar to kill you're right and then i when i come home at night yeah uh and so see i just say i live on my fat all day because I am active.

Right. I don't get hungry. Right. And then when I come home at night, I eat from the time I come home until I go to bed. Constantly. Mostly. I graze. I forage.

And mostly you're just eating like just slices of salami. No, I'm actually quite a good cook what do you make for yourself or what mostly pork all right my staple food is uh pork chops with red peppers onions potatoes and uh mushrooms and a bunch of spices meat with all of the other things that are not meat that i don't find disgusting the seven things the other things that are not meat that I don't find disgusting. The seven non-meat things that I don't find disgusting. That's the name of that dish from now on. How did that come to be your staple food,

it being a combination of the seven things you're willing to eat? Well, it's nutritious. It's easy to make. Repetition makes it even easier. I eat other stuff, but that's kind of my default. Where did you get this warrior diet thing? Where'd that term come from? I've never heard it before. I was already practicing it when one day I actually stumbled upon a passage talking about it in online or something. Okay. Now, do you feel,

Rick, that it's okay for you to eat your children's food and take it off their plate and glom onto their children's food because they are not eating it fast enough or just because you want it? Well, first of all, I want it. Second, I'm usually paying for it. That's another issue. Oh, dad. Dad logic at work. Believe me, I understand it. Second, I'm usually paying for it. That's another issue. Dad. Dad logic at work. Believe me, I understand it. When you take your daughters out to a fancy restaurant, do you wear a t-shirt that says Bank of Dad always open? Well, I try not to go to restaurants with dress codes. So I usually wear a shirt with some picture of a pig or other on it. I gotcha. But as you are a practitioner of dad logic, then you must also know the

axiom that food taken from children has no calories. I never thought about that. It's true. It's true. But it's protecting the environment too. That's one thing. Jen, how does your mom feel about all of this? How does your mom feel about all of this?

My mom is amused, but she's actually the only really, really flexible eater in our family. So I think her preference would probably be to eat more like Kim eats than like my dad eats. They have a longstanding tradition of not really being able to have him cook meals for the two of them because my mom thinks that everything he cooks is too greasy and meaty. Okay. And now, Kim, does the meat, when you guys go out to eat, does the meat that your dad eats, as a vegetarian, does that gross you out? You know, the meat that most human beings eat doesn't gross me out uh but the a lot of the meats that my dad eats i think would probably gross out anyone are you a vegetarian for health reasons for moral reasons what what tell me a little bit about your about your warrior diet i went vegetarian when i was, I had just turned 13. So, you know,

because you felt you had grown enough and you wanted to stunt your growth? Yes, absolutely. I didn't want to be any taller. I already passed my mom in height, so that was as far as I needed to go. Let's slow this down. Bring on the incomplete proteins. Yeah, you know, maybe it was, you know, teenage rebellion against my father. But I think it was mostly, you know, animal rights reasons to start. And then I worked for a natural food store all through college. And I kind of learned a lot more about it. And, you know, so it's now it's a combination of environmental nutrition, animal rights, kind of all that stuff.

of environmental nutrition, animal rights, kind of all that stuff. And so it's not a situation where if there were a slice of pizza and it had pepperoni on it, you couldn't pick off that pepperoni and eat the pizza, right? You know, I probably wouldn't. I mean, I'm not some, I'm not the kind of, I've been vegetarian for long enough that I'm not going to be, you know, picky about if my spatula that's touched a burger then touches my veggie burger. Right. But I don't know if I would be, I don't think I would love picking pepperoni off of something.

What kind of pizza would you like to order, Kim? Usually when my mom and Jen and I all discuss our pizza toppings before he starts to, you know, hem and haw and get into it, we usually, you know, get some kind of thing like, I don't know, like green pepper and onion or like some kind of broccoli. There's a big difference. Broccoli and, you know, like garlic and stuff, you know, two to three, two to four vegetables on it. So a bunch of them. Yeah. And can't, and Rick, can't you just pick off the things you don't like, like the broccoli, and still enjoy the tolerable green pepper? Well, broccoli resists picking off. It kind of breaks in pieces when you try to pick it off.

I actually will take broccoli out of Chinese food. But pizza, that's different. I don't doubt it. You act as though I'm going to say, oh, but no, of course you do. Of course you do. I mean, there's some things you can pick stuff out of and some things you can't. What did you learn? Cheese kind of glues them all together.

Yeah, no, believe me, that's why there is cheese. Kim, what did you learn when you were working at the natural food store about meat production that you would like your father to know? Oh, gosh. This might be like, you know, part of the crying arguments that we had when I was a teenager. You know, I didn't learn that much about meat production. I learned more probably about, you know, vitamin stuff and herbal remedies and all that kind of. Sure. I'm sure that I'm sure that your co workers taught you how to stop using deodorant and start using some kind of special crystal. Oh, yeah, the rock crystal.

Thankfully, I never use that. I'm a little too superficial to ever use that stuff. Rick, when you choose the meat that you eat, do you pay any mind to where it comes from? Well, I don't really like to think about it too much. I do have problems with the modern state of animal husbandry, actually. Tell me about that. Well, you know, I don't like factory farming, although I think it has brought a lot of cheap food to a lot of people

throughout the world and has's probably prevented some famine but I do also have First of all, I love factory farming so goodbye forever Okay It arguably has brought a lot of cheap food but the developing world tends to I'm going to leave that for a time when I have more facts at my disposal. Go on.

So, all right. You don't like factory farming. No, I have some moral problems with eating meat, but, you know, we're animals, too. We're clearly intended to eat meat. But do your, do you, okay. I mean, it sounds as though certainly you are a evolutionary remnant and a vestigial proto man who was clearly built to bicycle all around Chicago in his loincloth and then eat a whole pig at the end of the day. And that works for you. I do have the sharpest canines I've ever seen. This is the second time you brought up the canines. Don't worry, we noted it in the record the first time. I'm sure your daughters have heard about it quite a bit. If I've heard about it twice in half an

hour, then I'm sure your daughters have heard about your canines quite a bit. Do you ever make any choices about where your source you meet based on your dislike of factory farming? I think I have to say no. Okay. That's fair. I was just curious as to what amount of thought you have given to your carnivore. I try very hard not to waste anything.

I hardly ever throw anything away. I pride myself at being able to use things that other people might consider spoiled. I've learned a lot of tricks, you know, like washing off the surface of meat that is slightly over the hill and, you know, boiling at first and things like that. So, you know, I try not to waste. I really hesitate to comment at all on the relative food safety of spoiled meat that you have washed without Alton Brown here to comment. So I am just going to tell our listeners that Rick's saying that washing spoiled meat makes it good to

eat is, does not necessarily connote approval by this podcast or an instruction to you. It's really going to depend on how sharp your canines are. Most of the spoilage is on the surface. Okay. All right. I hope,

I hope that you don't, I hope that you don't die from a staph infection or salmonella or anything. I haven't thrown up since April 15th, 1985. Now, hang on a second. You've brought up dates a couple of times. Very specific memories from dates. And another thing that I wasn't going to bring up, but now I feel I must, was kim submitted

your uh your tumblr as as a point of possible interest and this tumblr which i don't mind buzz marketing is okay thank you i appreciate it all right well let me do it then this day in pig history dot tumblr.com and it's a very it's a very minimal tumblr and it basically so to so yesterday's entry was monday in 1999 hill cooking chicken i presume hill is your wife yes all right hillary hillary cooking chicken jen, are you in the shaking or baking stage? Monday in 1979, New Year's Eve, Hill, Duke, and I seek open restaurant strikeout at Beef Roast Inn and Chicago Claim Company. Duke has suggestion, go to Gulliver's first time. It open, have pizza and Grand Slammer. That's actually the place where we have most disputes ordering pizza. At Grand Slammer? That's actually the place where we have most disputes ordering pizza.

At Grand Slammer? No, at Gulliver's. The Grand Slammer is a mixed drink. Oh, Grand Slammer is at Gulliver's. Okay, I don't mind buzz marketing that either. It's a fine establishment. Okay. What makes a Grand Slammer?

It's a mixed drink with every kind of white liquor that exists and a little fruit juice. Now, given your propensity for drinking Grand Slammers, how do you account for this perfect recall of these days in history? Well, I also keep a journal. I've started keeping a journal on January 1st, 1960, and I, you know, have kept it pretty regularly ever since. 1960 and I you know I've kept it pretty regularly ever since 19 this Tuesday in 1995 dream Jen has new Mariah Carey album she plays me three songs Ring-a-ling Bun and Thomas Jefferson let me just where is the follow button on this yes I'm going to follow this tumblr right away well thank. I appreciate it. This Tuesday in 2012, irritating coworker wearing some kind of nasty old lady powder

make her even more irritating. Thank you for not mentioning her name. I can't remember if I did or not. It's not on the blog. Your syntax is a little off, but otherwise, these are gems, I have to tell you. Thank you.

Thank you. I'm touched. I'm really touched. I'm very fond of you, sir. We've had quite a few weird dads on the program. I always enjoy talking to them, but you are truly among the weirder ones, and also one of the weirder ones who seems to have some touch with reality, and I like that. But justice must be served. Jen and Kim, if I find in your favor, in this case, what would you like me to order? A light salad? No, what would you like me to order? How would you want to rectify this situation? Well, we talked about that. This is Jen. And I think what we decided was that we would ask you to order for a 50-50 split between meat and veggie dishes when we order

family style with actual vegetables as the vegetable dishes and not just the most meat-like vegetables, which is actually the common thread you were missing from trying to connect mushrooms, eggplant, and whatever else my dad likes. They have a meat-like texture. and whatever else my dad likes. They have a meat-like texture. Right. Right. And greasy.

Greasy is good for him, too. Second, that my dad can't dictate others' dishes when he chooses to order his own. Okay. Can I make an objection? Of course. You have the sharpest canines, don't you? That's right. I could probably abide by that if we could amend it so that one quarter of those, well, one of those two, well, 25% of the dishes can have vegetables, but they have to be vegetables I'll eat.

And that some consideration be taken into the fact that I'm paying for most everything. Half of most everything? Well, Mom is paying for the other half. Do you guys keep separate bank accounts? We kind of do, actually. All right. But we pay together when we have family dinners. Right, but who would you guys reach for separate wallets,

and each mom and dad both pay half? No, we have a joint credit card. Joint credit card. And your wife also is an earner of money? Yes, more than I actually. All right. I think I've heard everything I need to hear. I will now go over to Gulliver's, get myself a couple of Grand Slammers,

dream of some New Haven-style pizza, a pizza, and then I will be back in a moment to render my decision. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Kim, can you give me just some examples of places where you'd go to eat and what dishes you'd like to order? Well, when we go to Chinese dinner, one favorite of me and my sister is broccoli with garlic sauce, which there was one time that my dad actually was reading me a Chinese menu to do a takeout order, and he read all the vegetarian dishes except for that one.

Guilty as charged. So that's a definite favorite of ours. That would be lovely to be able to order when we order family style. Have you ever had your parents over to your house to eat? Yes. My dad usually complains about whatever I cook. What have you cooked for him in the past? Oh, I've cooked tons

of stuff for him. I actually am really into cooking. And, you know, my mom and my sister both really like my cooking. My dad always says, if it's something he can stand, he'll say, Oh, Kimberly, I don't hate this. That's not quite fair. What's an example of something that he that you've cooked that he didn't hate? Well, I do. I make like, actually, just recently, I made like a vegetarian chili. So I just did, you know, like zucchini, corn, beans, you know, tomato. Kim, that was excellent.

And he liked that, but he refused to call it chili and insisted on just calling it vegetable soup. Yeah, I mean, it did have zucchini in it. Yes, it can't be a chili, though. It's a vegetable and legume soup, I would say. How do you feel about your chances of prevailing in this case? I feel like we probably have a pretty good chance. I know that the judge likes quirky fathers, but I feel like we have justice on our side, hopefully.

I hope he will temper justice with mercy too. Rick or Pig, your children are grown. They no longer live under your roof. Why can't they order for themselves at restaurants? And just why can't you make reasonable accommodations to their adulthood? Well, I think if I'm paying for half of it, I should have some say. Isn't that just just? It's not an answer to my question.

But how do you feel about your chances in the case? I thought the judge was fairly sympathetic to my cause, but I think we'll come up with a compromise that we can all live with. Okay. And Jen, you're caught in between. How do you feel? And Jen, you're caught in between. How do you feel? Well, I think that I'm happy that my dad's extreme eccentricity has shown through on this podcast so that everyone else in the world will now know what we're talking about. Thank you, I think. We'll see what the judge has to say when we come back in just a minute. Join and you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning, the experience of learning causes a sound to happen? Let's hear the sound. Yep, that's the sound of you learning a new language with Babbel. happen. Let's hear the sound. Yep, that's the sound of you learning a new language with Babbel. We're talking about quick 10-minute lessons crafted by over 200 language experts that can help you start speaking a new language in as little as one, two, three weeks. Let's hear that sound. Babbel's tips and tools are approachable, accessible, rooted in real-life situations, and delivered with conversation-based teaching. So you're ready to practice what you've learned in the real world.

And you get to hear the sound. It's not just like a game that pretends to teach you a language. It's also not a rigid, weird, hyperacademic chore. It is an actually productive app that actually teaches you while you are actually having a nice time. And you get to hear this sound. Here's a special limited time deal for our listeners right now. Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners at babbel.com slash Hodgman. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman.

Rules and restrictions apply. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In. Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right? Yeah, from the restaurant Kraft. And did you know that most of the dishes at that very same restaurant are made with made-in pots and pans? Really? What's an example? The braised short ribs, they're made-in, made-in.

The Rohan duck, made-in, made-in. Riders of Rohan, duck! What about the Heritage Pork Shop? You got it. Made-in, made-in. Made-in has been supplying top chefs and restaurants with high-end cookware for years. They make the stuff that chefs need. Their carbon steel cookware is the best of cast iron, the best of stainless clad. It gets super hot.

It's rugged enough for grills or an open flame. One of the most useful pans you can own. And like we said, good enough for real professional chefs, the best professional chefs. Oh, so I have to go all the way down to the restaurant district in restaurant town? Just buy it online. This is professional-grade cookware that is available online directly to you, the consumer, at a very reasonable price.

Yeah. If you want to take your cooking to the next level, remember what so many great dishes on menus all around the world have in common. They're made in Made In. Save up to 25% this Memorial Day from the 18th until the 27th. Visit madeincookware.com. That's M-A-D-E-I-N cookware.com. That's M-A-D-E-I-N cookware.com. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman reenters the courtroom. Well, first of all, I just want to say I want to be your dad, Kim and Jen, Jim and Ken.

I would love so much to have my whole life just be wearing funny T-shirts about meat and bicycling back and forth until I can get metabolism that would allow me to eat a steak and crazy nachos, and then glom on to some deep dish pizza style casserole of Chicago, and not have a care in the world. This is, I think, an ideal for me that I am striving for. I wish. You, sir, describe the human ideal. You are Rousseau's natural man to me. Thank you. Without a care in the world, but have a care. Have a care, Rick.

Two reasons. First of all, here's a big lecture. I love meat. Love it. But there is every reason in the world to eat less of it. There's a moral component. Yes, you are taking a life. Even if you don't equate human life with non-animal life, some do make that equation. I do not. I do not think that human life and non-human animal life are the same. Nonetheless, it is immoral to kill a creature purposefully, wastefully, and cruelly, right? Arguably, the moral test of carnivorism is whether you would be willing to kill a creature in order to eat its body. And I confess that I have never done this. I once, when I was a magazine

journalist, I was doing a story on weird foods to eat in New York. And by weird, I mean perfectly normal foods that are eaten all over the world, but are weird to Western standards, which is to say feet, noses, ears, tails, Ophel, all kinds of things. And I, and I went to a, uh, a, a, a questionably licensed, uh, halal fresh kill chicken and goat butchery in remote Brooklyn, where you would go and you would order your meat and it would be killed to order. And they brought, and they showed me the killing room where they would bring in goats and cut their throats. And I thought I was going to have to see this happen. And I didn't want to.

And at the last moment, they ushered me away. They didn't let me see it. But I knew that if it were to happen, it was my obligation as a carnivore to watch this happen. And someday I know a reckoning is coming where I'm going to have to see the thing that I am eating and enjoying killed in front of my eyes, if not even by my own hands. But that day has that reckoning has not yet come. Like most of Western civilization, I am avoiding that reckoning and deluding myself into believing that it will never come, but it will. myself into believing that it will never come, but it will. But most meat that is consumed, as you probably know, since you have problems with animal husbandry, in the United States,

most meat that is consumed is not even given the dignity of living in a pen in Brooklyn before having its throat cut. That pen in Brooklyn probably would sell for $1.2 million now. Most meat is raised industrially in places that you will never see because you will never be allowed to see them by those companies because you do not want to see them. You do not want to see the grim, mean, and paradoxically inhuman way most livestock, chickens and pigs especially, are raised. And even apart from the cruelty, there's the ecological impact of factory farming, the massive waste problem that industrial pig farming creates in surrounding communities. Cows have it comparatively easily because most of them are pastured before being sent to fattening pens, but then they're put into a kill line. They at least spend some time outside, but even so, there's a human toll upon those who work in the industrial meat system. There's a terrible public health impact of dosing

cattle with massive amounts of antibiotics. And don't get me started on the cow farts, the methane that are coming from these enormous cow herds is actually adding to climate change. And it's only getting worse because according to the Stanford Woods Institute for the Environment, meat production is likely to double by 2020 due to population growth. And by the way, the meat that is going into the food system that is so cheap that it is avoiding famine, well, guess what? There's still famine and there's massive amounts of food waste, avoiding famine. Well, guess what? There's still famine and there's massive amounts of food waste, massive amounts of food waste in the Western food system. And the part of the problem is, of course, developing countries are switching to meat from a traditionally and more healthy vegetarian or vegetable-based diet as they become more wealthy. And that's a huge problem in China right now. And meat isn't great for you. Now, you, sir, are the beautiful Neanderthal exception.

But meat, you know, has health consequences for everyone who eats it. And, you know, all things in moderation. I eat a lot of meat. But no one, not even you, sir, would say that a steak is healthier for you than a green bean, which, of course, is not a bean but an immature bean pod. Okay. green bean, which of course is not a bean, but an immature bean pod. Okay. Now we'll take all of that moralism and throw it aside for one truism, which is that meat is goddamn delicious. And even if you do that, and I think that's a reasonable stance to take in life. It's the one

that I've chosen. The truth is that over-reliance on that deliciousness, over-reliance on meat in the world food ways and in your own personal diet, at the very minimum, simply dulls your senses to the other amazing non-meat foods that exist. It ruins your repertoire. Everyone should eat what they want. And the good news is there are more and more options to choose meat that's been raised locally and sustainably and killed in as humane way as possible as you can kill a thing. And if you like meat and you don't like factory farming, no matter what I rule here today, sir, Rick, it behooves you to do some research and vote with your dollars and choose these non-factory options as often as you can. More often than not, you're helping the farmers who live in your community. And you live in Chicago, and there's a lot of agriculture, and there's a lot of livestock that's being raised around there. I'm sure there's some amazing options for non-factory farmed meat that you can enjoy.

Okay. Even if you put aside all the moralism, and that's fine because meat is delicious, you know, there are lots of reasons to go easy on it, to broaden your dietary repertoire, to give you some, give some other things a try, including, you know, trying to develop a taste for vegetables on pizza a little bit. Now, the delusion that we use in order to eat meat, which is that we are not also living things, or these things weren't alive once with eyes and hearts and feelings, right? It's also a little bit of the delusion of this family style eating. You guys are already in family style, right?

You guys sit down together as a family and you eat. And that's fantastic. I'm so, I would love, I cannot, I cannot wait until my children are grown and we can all go out to dinner this way. I hope that we have a routine get together, or I hope that we havetogethers that seem to be as routine and happy as yours do. But, you know, family-style dining is, I think, problematic because not everybody likes the same thing. It interferes with the natural order of this court, which is you like what you like and you get what you like. And it tends to lead to food waste. Rick, your whole argument about how I'm the one who eats the leftovers, that's because usually when you order a bunch of dishes for the table,

it tends to lead to a lot of things not getting finished. And food waste, I think, as I think you do, Rick, is a terrible thing. Whether or not it has broccoli in it, I think it's a terrible thing. So I'm not saying that you shouldn't order family style, but I would say be aware that you're ordering an amount of food that you guys can all reasonably finish. Now, Rick, you are obviously a bottomless pit who can eat a steak and a nachos and have room for a couple of pieces of pizza. I'm discharged. Yeah. And I think you're doing the world a service by consuming all of those calories. But I think a lot of these conflicts will be resolved if you go to places where you are not

necessarily sharing food. Maybe that's less fun for you. All right, fine. But if you go to places where you are not necessarily sharing food. Maybe that's less fun for you. All right, fine. But if you're not necessarily sharing food or you're ordering the amount that you need to order. Now, that's obviously not an option when you're ordering pizza. It's obviously not an option when you're having Chinese food. So here's what I'm going to say. For reasons of fairness,

for reasons of consideration of your own adult daughter's choices, for reasons of consideration of how great your daughters are. And for reasons of there's always obviously an available extra steak entree for you if you want it 25 of a meal being kim eatable is not enough it must be 50 any family style shared meal 50 i do not want to hear about who's paying for it there are many great weird dad tricks in the world that one is the worst if you were like're, that's, that's going to have your lovable weird dad card revoked by this court in a hot second. Now you could argue that Kim and Jen, who I presume have jobs, although one of them went to Oberlin, so who knows, could pay their own way, but dads and moms pay for their kids. That's the way of the world. If you can do that,

then you're happy. That is a reward unto itself. Paying for your kids to eat food with you is a greater reward than any two or three slices of pizza that you glom off them. Your kids are great. Your daughters are fantastic. You should reward them with food they would like to eat. And even though I love everything about what you're doing, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta have a salad,

dude. You gotta, there's a lot out there. You gotta try this stuff. It's maybe it's better than the last time you tried it. I check your diary. Maybe the last time you had a salad was in 1978, but just as they're just as they're, Check your diary. Maybe the last time you had a salad was in 1978. But just as there, just as there,

and I'm speaking as a guy who does not like to eat a lot of fruits and vegetables, but just as there are a much broader array of whether you want to call them responsible or locally sourced or of, of better and more interesting meat products that are not destroying the world. There are also some just, there's an incredible movement in, um,

farming that is making, uh, uh, vegetables and greens a lot more interesting to eat than they were, uh, in that day in history. So you heard all my moralizing. That's all a caveat.

Just to give you some food for thought, just some beef jerky for thought, just some iron reserves for thought. You heard all my moralizing about that. You heard all my moralizing about eating family style. Just keep the food waste to a minimum. I like the idea of keeping a turkey leg in a bag. Obviously, you can't go...

If you've got to have a turkey leg at a theme park, they're probably not getting it from the local heritage breed turkey farmers and the slow food movement. They're probably getting some factory farm turkey. You got to live with your sin and carry it around with you like a stinking turkey leg in your backpack for a while. If that's what you got to do, that's what you got to do. But just think, give it a thought. Give it a little bit of a thought. Rick, your life is perfect. It can't get less perfect if you eat a few vegetables.

I go from 25% to 50% as a minimum. I find in favor of Ken and Jim. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Ken, Jim, you emerged triumphant. How are you feeling?

I feel pretty great about this 50% minimum. Absolutely. What do you think is going to be the first thing you order? Broccoli with garlic sauce. Broccoli with broccoli sauce. I'm going to go for broccoli with broccoli sauce. Rick, how are you feeling? Oh, I kind of expected something like this,

but I agree with a lot of what the judge said, and I agreed to submit to the court, so que sera, sera. Are you looking forward to those fancy pork chops? I will look into these things. Kim, Jen, Rick, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you. Thank you for having us. Hello, teachers and faculty.

This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience, one you have no choice but to embrace because, yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you.

And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I-R. Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah'm trying to spell it but it's tricky let me give it a try okay if you need a laugh and you're on the go call s-t-o-p-p-p-a-d-i it'll never fit no it will let me try If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah, we are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go.

Hello, Judge Hodgman. Oh, hey, Jesse. How are you? You caught me in the midst of poaching a pheasant. Oh, wow. You really have a lot of game in here. How many blackbirds is that? Four and twenty.

Making pie, then. I am going to make pie. I'm going to make pie, but I'm only going to cook the pie until the birds are three quarters dead so that they can limp out of the pie or fly out of them. I don't remember how it's done. That's the thing that happened, you know. That's what they would do. They would bake these live birds into pies so that when they opened the crust, it would fly out

and all the people who were not disgusted by bird droppings in their food would clap. Hooray! It was the Middle Ages. They didn't have crazy nachos. I read this book by Bill Bryson, which was called At Home, and was about the history of domestic life in Western Europe, essentially, although it was somewhat digressive. And one of the best chapters was about food,

was somewhat digressive. And one of the best chapters was about food. And one of the best parts was about just the sheer volume of different types of animal that rich people ate up until about 150 years ago. Just every animal. And basically, a feast was measured by the number of different types of animals that were consumed. I'm sorry, Jesse. I couldn't hear you over my gnawing of this swan's neck.

Maybe we should clear the docket. We have something. Well, yeah, but before we clear the docket, Jesse, is there anything that you want to, just to keep people in suspense, do you want to, is there anything you want to plug? Is there anything you want to mention? Oh. You know what I mean? Well, I have a show coming up at San Francisco Sketch Fest, or two shows at SF Sketch Fest.

One, a Jordan Jesse Goh show on Saturday, February 8th. And one, a tribute to the great Mal Sharp of Coil and Sharp on Sunday, February 9th. And you can find ticket links at MaximumFun.org. They are going to be a real blast, those two shows. The Jordan Jesse Goh Show has the great Rob Corddry on it. And the Mal Sharp Show has Matt Walsh and Matt Besser of the Upright Citizens Brigade, as well as James Richmuth of Casper Hauser. That's fantastic.

It's going to be a lot of fun. And I will just mention, here's some news from me. We still have a few Ragnarok survival kits. And after much complaining from Canada, we looked into it. And we realized the reason that people were not buying them in Canada is that it cost $1,000 to ship them to Canada. Or something ridiculous. So we have gone back to the shipper and we have negotiated, I think it's a $42, something in the range of $42, $43 flat rate for international shipping of Ragnarok survival kits. Any other country in the world.

We're talking about Canada. We have listeners in Australia. We have listeners in New Zealand. We have listeners in the United Kingdom. And there are many other countries in the world. In Bogota, Colombia, that family down there, well, that guy does comic books, so he can't buy anything, but you know what I'm saying. If you've been

out there in the world and you've worried that you weren't going to be able to survive Ragnarok, now you can. Just go to bit.ly slash survive Ragnarok, and you can buy a Ragnarok survival kit before all 500 are sold. Here's something from Dan.

My wife and I have a disagreement. I've always followed the rule that my parents taught me. You don't get dessert if you don't finish your dinner. Dessert is used not only as a reward for clearing my plate, but also to help with portion control and not fall victim to having eyes larger than my stomach. My wife, on the other hand, feels that there's always room for dessert, even if she doesn't finish her dinner because she's too full. Quote, unquote. This never bothered me before we brought a young daughter into this world. I want to make sure we set a good example for her to clean her plate and eat her green vegetables and that a tasty dessert will be rewarded to her. Please give us our justice desserts.

be rewarded to her. Please give us our justice desserts. I appreciate the fact that when you put your wife's words too full in quotes, you were implying that she is a liar and that she is not really too full because she is eating dessert. But my, in our household, if you do a good enough job on your meal, then you can have some dessert because they're different. It's not a reward. If you start making dessert

a pure reward, that leads to a unhealthy relationship with dessert. But it becomes a forbidden fruit, but unlike fruit, it's delicious. Some fruits are delicious. Satsumas. We had some satsumas this winter, Jesse, that blew my mind. Oh, I'm very happy to hear it.

Wait until you taste the sumo. Hey, did you get a case or two of satsumas over there at the Maximum Fun offices? My kind friend John Hodgman sent us a case or two, and we all consumed them en masse. Phew. I wasn't looking for an acknowledgment, but I suddenly just realized I may have thrown my money away on a scam Satsuma operation. But I'm glad to know that they arrived. operation, but I'm glad to know that they arrived. Lately, I've been enjoying satsumas sent to me by my friend John Hodgman and some guavas that came out of a tree in my friend Al Madrigal's backyard. Oh, Al Madrigal.

What a fine fella. I've had a fragrant and delicious few days. Anyway, the point is, Dan and your liar wife, I don't care what you do so long as you don't waste food. Your emphasis on portion control is a good one. But bear in mind, children have stomachs the size of walnuts.

I think that's a fact. I think that's a science fact. They can't eat a whole lot of food before they get full of that food. And they're always going to want dessert just like your lying wife. Or any rational man or woman. Yeah.

I think it's, you know, so if you keep their portions appropriately small, and I think it's reasonable to enforce the eating of at least one green vegetable at every meal, then I think go ahead and let them have that dessert. As long as they're making the effort, I think everything's going to work out fine. Hey, this week's case on Judge John Hodgman was named for us by John Ajuda Barr. Thank you, John.

Thanks, John. If you want to name a case of Judge John Hodgman, go to MaximumFun.org, go to Facebook, search for Judge John Hodgman, and click on Like. Then, you know, click on Like on the posts when they come up so that Facebook will show them to you, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Facebook is the worst.

Yeah, if you like Judge John Hodgman, vote with your likes. Yeah, precisely. And if you want to submit a case to Judge John Hodgman, i.e. me, then just go to MaximumFun.org slash JJ Ho. There's a form that you can fill out there, or you can just email me at Hodgman at MaximumFun.org. I read all those emails. I reply as quickly as I can. And I choose personally what cases get in and what cases don't get in. We almost give a fair hearing to almost all of them, unless you're crazy.

And remember, Judge John Hodgman and all of the podcasts at MaximumFun.org are supported by your donations. So if you're not already a donor, go to MaximumFun.org slash donate and sign up today. You'll get a prize and stuff. And remember to eat dinner and eat your vegetables, everybody. Our show is edited by Mark McConville. Julia Smith, our producer. Thanks, Julia.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thanks, Jesse. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is a production of MaximumFun.org. Our special thanks to all of the folks who donate to support the show and all of our shows at maximum fun.org slash donate the show is produced by julia smith and me jesse thorn and edited by mark mcconville you can check out his podcast super ego in itunes or online at go super ego.com you can find john hodgman online at areas of my expertise.com. If you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, go to maximumfund.org slash JJHO. If you have thoughts about the show, join the

conversation on our forum at forum.maximumfund.org and our Facebook group at facebook.com slash Judge John Hodgman. We'll see you online and next time right here on the judge john hodgman podcast maximumfund.org comedy and culture artist owned listener supported