Judge John Hodgman - Grouse Negligence

Episode Date: November 29, 2017

Kasey brings the case against her husband, Josh. Josh is an avid hunter and would like to go as much as he can during the season. But Kasey wants him to be more available during this time to help with her business. Who's right? Who's wrong? Thank you to Ryan Stratton for suggesting this week's title! To suggest a title for a future episode, like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook. We regularly put out a call for submissions.

This week's Judge John Hodgman episode is about hunting animals with guns. So if you're not comfortable with that subject matter, well, you can wait till next week's show. Let's get started. Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, grouse negligence. Casey brings the case against her husband, Josh. Josh is an avid bird hunter and would like to go as much as he can during the season.

Casey wants him to be more available during this time to help her with her business. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference. My pop was in the podcast business and he loved it very much. He actually went ahead and passed away while podcasting. We used to have a few parties out at the house and invite the podcasters. There was one by the name of Elliot Kalin and he thought he could take my father. My father went ahead and said, dadgummit, I don't think you can do that.

So everybody pushed the tables and chairs in the house away and they went at it. My father, who was 54 at the time, beat him. And he sat down beside me and said, wasn't bad for an old man, was it? And then he got up and left the room and went out the front door. About 15 minutes later, my wife came to me and said, your father's out on the front porch and he thinks he's having a heart attack. And sure enough, he was, and he passed away. He passed away doing what he loved. I certainly don't want to pass away, but I'm doing what I love, podcasting. And so what if I'm doing it in my 40s?

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, swear them in. Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? Yes. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling

despite the fact that he's dead set against grouse hunting, preferring pheasant hunting? Yes. I do. Very well, Judge Hodgman. You may be seated. Casey and Josh,

for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors, can either of you name the piece of culture I referenced when I entered the courtroom? I'm going to give you a hint. It wasn't about podcasting. I took the real word, the real occupation they were talking about, because it might give away too much. I replaced it with podcasting. Casey, does that give you enough of a hint to make the winning guess? Oh, man, no. No? Okay. It was a long one. It was a long one.

Yeah, that's true. I'm going to give you another hint. It has to do with where you live, which is Amarillo, Texas, if I am not mistaken. It is. I'm not sure. I would possibly, in reference to Amillo a song a song possibly uh amarillo by morning i don't know any other songs about our area can you show me the way to amarillo by neil sadaka perhaps perhaps yeah i'll go let's go with that all right we'll put that in the

guest book a little more obscure i think that's the name of that song. It is definitely a Neil Sedaka song. All right. Josh, now it is your turn to guess. You've got some hints. You've got some information. You know that it is about Amarillo, where you live. That's in Texas.

Two, it's probably not the song, Can You Show Me the Way to Amarillo by Neil Sedaka. Now that you can rule one thing in. Oh, and it's also not about podcasting. So now that you can rule one thing in and two things out, I expect you to give the correct guess. What is it, Josh? I am going to guess something about a Roy Rogers biography. Roy Rogers.

You think it's a Roy Rogers quote? Yes. The idea that it is a quote by an Amarillo is a good idea. You still want to guess Roy Rogers? I just don't know that much Amarillo history. Oh my goodness. Amarillo Slim. Amarillo Slim. I'll put you down for both Roy Rogers and Amarillo because if I have three guesses, then I can grammatically say all guesses are wrong. You're both incorrect. All three of your guesses that I gave you were incorrect. No, you do not recognize the words of Terry Funk? Terry Funk, what?

Come on, you guys. Terry Funk, the hardcore icon, the Funker, Terry Funk. Born Terrence Funk on June 30th, 1944 in Indiana. But he moved with his dad, Dory Funk, and his brother, Dory Funk Jr., to Amarillo, Texas, and began there a wrestling promotion and training program that produced several memorable world-class wrestlers, including Terry Funk and his brother, Dory Funk Jr., the Funk Brothers. Terry Funk, who is now 72,

just returned to the ring for the big-time wrestling promotion in Raleigh, North Carolina, September 22 of this year, 2017. He teamed with the Rock and Roll Express, which is a six-man tag team match, and his team defeated Doug Gilbert, Jerry Lawler, and Lawler's son, Brian Christopher, by disqualification.

Terry Funk, king of the hardcore wrestlers and Amarillo legend. Anyway, I guess we're going to have to hear this case. Oh, it's a case that's right in your name, Casey. Here's what I understand to be the case. You guys live in Amarillo, Texas. Casey, you have an antique store there. And Josh likes to go out hunting for bird and small game. Is that right, Josh? Really? Everything, actually.

Everything. Anything that moves, you want to kill it? Not exactly. But yeah, if it's edible, I'll go for it. Okay, good. But you don't hunt the most dangerous game, right? Not as of yet. Oh, no, don't ever do it. Yeah, I'm against it. As every seventh grader knows, the most dangerous game is man.

Don't. Don't even hint at cannibalism on this podcast. We may have to put a disclaimer on this one we are we we may have to put a disclaimer on this one already because we're going to get a lot of letters from quail lovers oh no but where are you guys for are you now josh are you from texas um not originally but i grew up here for most of my life okay where are you originally from kennebbunkport, Maine? Evanston, Illinois. And then we moved from there to Essex, Massachusetts, and then moved here. And okay, so you did spend some time in New England. I thought I detected it in your accent. Yeah. Good. And how old were you when you moved

to Texas? I think nine. Okay. And did you grow up in Amarillo or no? Because you don't know anything about the Funk Brothers. You know, I did live in Amarillo, but I'm not much into wrestling. Okay. So is Amarillo, would you call that your hometown since you were about nine? Yes. All right. And may I presume that you became interested in the sport of hunting in Texas rather than Essex Massachusetts yes now that there isn't hunting in New England for sure but it is rather less popular I would imagine than in Texas yeah I would assume so all right so how long have you been hunting when did you first start going out hunting um You know, I think I really got into it when I was probably about 18 or 19. I worked for a construction outfit and the two guys who owned it were big deer hunters.

And then I started going hunting with one of them. So you would build a little building for a while and then you might see a deer, shoot it, then continue to build the building? That's about right. Yeah, that's it. I bet you had some pretty good sight lines from on top of those girders. Yep, big deer blind. Uh-huh. All right, so what do you like to go out hunting for? Well, you know, the way the seasons work here,

first dove and early teal season come up come up teals a small duck and uh and uh so i do that until deer season starts so you start out the season by killing the bird of peace not the white and then the mini bird of peace like i want to kill this beautiful metaphor for peace first but is there a smaller, weaker one that I can get to? We're going to have some jokes here. I respect your hobby. Don't you worry.

I don't, it's not my thing. I don't do it, but I, I have no qualm. Well, I have some qualm in so far as I would never do it, but you don't understand what I'm saying.

I do. When I make these jokes, I'm not trying to make a big point. Right. Just saying that it is weird that you're trying to kill that bird of peace what comes after dove uh then uh well then uh deer season starts um and uh after deer season is duck and goose and crane and then pheasant and quail. Crane season? Speaking of birds of peace. Sandhill cranes, not whooping cranes.

What's your favorite part of the crane? The skinny neck? You like to gnaw on that? Are you trying to, is the goal to kill a thousand cranes in one season so you can string them across your wall? Not even I get that reference, Jesse. Sorry. What is it? A thousand cranes in one season so you can string them across your wall? Oh, my gosh. Not even I get that reference, Jesse. Sorry. What is it?

You make a string of thousand paper cranes? Okay, that's starting to sound more like a thing. I don't mean to be dumb here. It's a Japanese tradition that if you make a thousand paper cranes in origami, you are granted a special wish. Oh. I've tried it. Oh, you have, Casey. You understood that reference.

Did you get Josh to kill a thousand cranes for you to scream around your wall? No, the paper ones. The paper ones, not the real ones. I think I saw that on an episode of Brian Fuller's Hannibal before it was. Oh, my God. No.

No, I made a lot of paper ones for my store once. And did you make a thousand of them? I made a lot. It was a really impressive window display one time. If you had made a thousand, would you have wished, I wished that Josh would hunt a little less frequently? For sure. Definitely.

That was a magical segue into this case. That was pretty good. Everyone's wish is going to come true on this one. That's what I wished for, one magical segue. So, Casey, you take issue with Josh's hunting, not as hunting per se, but because of the amount of time it takes away from your life together? Correct. because of the amount of time it takes away from your life together?

Correct. So most people think, you know, it's like a weekend hobby that we could schedule on and off. But really, you know, hunting season, it's like each duck is a couple weeks long. And so it's every morning, every night. So, yeah, I mean, a couple of years back, you know, I would wake up and he would already be gone because he has to, you know, the animals. It's like the hunt starts at five in the morning. And then when I would come home from work, by the time I would go to sleep and then he would come in after I was already asleep. So I was kind of what some people here in Texas call a hunting widow. And so, yeah, basically you don't have a husband for four months. Kind of what some people here in Texas call a hunting widow. And so, yeah, basically you don't have a husband for four months.

Yeah, it sounds like of all, I mean, we're going from dove to teal to deer to duck to crane. Is that right? Is that the horoscope of the hunting season in Texas or is there even more to it that I've missed? I have no idea. I'm expected to know, but I have no idea. I'm expected to know but I have no idea. I mean what what happens after crane? Well crane starts in October and ends in January. There's really not much after January until spring there's turkey season. Okay so and So and when does that start? February 19th? I think that's in March. Okay. So you have a husband in February, basically. Do I understand that correctly?

Yeah. So once my busy season ends and I free up a lot of time, yeah, That's whenever he's done hunting. But you mentioned that this was a couple of years ago that you would routinely wake up and he'd be gone and not be back until you were asleep. Has the hunting pace fallen off to some degree? Mostly because I've been having children. So I mean, I can throw that card out and sometimes get a response. Josh, Josh, did you know about these children that Casey's been having? I still haven't seen them. Okay. How old are your kids? Our daughter turned three

this past September and then our son is like 16 months. Oh, wow. A little tiny child. Yeah, yeah. Two crazy toddlers close together. That'll keep you busy. Yeah. It's exhausting. You be quiet, Josh. I'm talking to Casey. It doesn't sound like you're around thatlers close together. That'll keep you busy. Yeah. Yes, it does. You be quiet, Josh.

I'm talking to Casey. It doesn't sound like you're around that much at all. Yeah, I'll take that chuckle as an affirmative. We'll get back into you for a second, but now I want to talk to Casey a little bit. So you have two little kids and you have a store. I do. I actually own a store and then I also work with my dad and my husband on the side and like an interior design construction field. But my store is actually an antique mall. So yeah, the holidays, you know, it's a retail store and gift shop. So the holidays

are our busiest time. And I participate in some of those, you know, holiday shows where you go and set up all of your product to sell for a weekend or so. So yeah, I'm really busy in the holidays. And it would be nice to have an extra hand. I would imagine you would be really busy all the live long day. I would imagine you would be really busy all the live long day. Yeah, I mean, I'm on Route 66. So the summer is really, really busy. But, you know, that's just the day to day store operations. I'm not having to take my items and lug them all over town.

So I can usually get by on my own there. It's time for the court to take a recess and hear a quick word from our sponsor. When we come back, we'll hear more about Casey's busy season and why she needs Josh to hunt less and help her more. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join. And you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning, the experience of learning

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Or that you have a space in an antique mall? Well, I actually own the over, I started with my own store. And then when I expanded to this historical building, it's about 20,000 square feet. I, of course, couldn't furnish it by myself. So I have a small area that has my own things. And then I have 120 plus other vendors that rent out booth space from me. This is your second job? Yeah, I, yeah.

On top of helping to run the construction business with Josh and your dad, is that right? Yeah. And also being a parent of two small children. Yeah, we're busy, but. I feel like it's a full-time job for me just to listen to my mom describe her spot in an antiques mall in San Francisco. I know how you feel. Yeah. Let's get some buzz.

Like, I like antique malls a lot. So let's get some buzz marketing in. First of all, Jesse, your mom has a stall. Is it in Stuff in San Francisco? Yeah, that's absolutely correct. It's called Emeritus and it's on Valencia Street, right where Valencia Street hits the 101 freeway. And now, Casey, tell me about your antique mall. Is it called the Hunter's Widow Antique Mall? That would have been a good second name. It's actually it's called the Nat, which is short for Natatorium because the building that it's in, um, originally

in 1920 was a indoor swimming pool. And then three years after they drained the swimming pool, put a dance floor down. Um, and it became a music venue for 50 years, uh, with people like Bob Wills, Louis Armstrong, uh, little Richard got arrested there for taking his shirt off. Oh, no. Yeah. So, okay. Let me just understand this.

You got a 20,000 square foot antique mall that you own that is in a drained swimming pool formerly called a notatorium. That then was also a place where Little Richard took his shirt off. This is incredible. And let's look at some evidence right now that you sent in. You have some pictures here from your stall at the, at the Nat. Yeah. So I sent over a couple of photos just to show, you know, I'm not one of the vendors that does just like the small dishes or that kind of stuff. I mean, I actually move a lot of really large antiques. Um, I traveled down to Round Top by Austin, Texas. It's one of the largest flea markets in the United States.

I go down there twice a year. And, yeah, I mean, I bring back some really large antique pieces like checkout counters and sofas. And so, yeah, I mean, it's some larger products that I need assistance with. Now, you've got two really nice upholstered blue easy chairs in here that I can see. I do. What I do not see here is any photos of any incredible checkout counters, which is what I really want to see right now. So in that, you already have one demerit here in the court because I want to see some antique-y checkout counters that you hauled out of the largest flea market in Texas that somehow I didn't go to even when

I was in Austin. By the way, people of Austin and Texas who came to my show at the Paramount, thank you once more. You guys were amazing. You should say hi to my mom when you're at that flea market because my mom totally goes to that. She does. Yeah. Well, I'm looking at photos here and they're all obviously both at the

Judge John Hodgman show page at MaximumFun.org and also on our Instagram account, which is Judge John Hodgman on Instagram. And this looks like, you know what? If I were walking through a 20,000 square foot drained swimming pool full of antiques, this is one of the stalls that I would definitely stop at. You have some good looking stuff in here and it's well arranged and it's tasteful. You also have a lot of books. We do, yeah.

But those are not antique-y books. Those are new books. I can't see them because they're too small. My books are, the ones I sell are antique, but, or I mean new, but a lot of the other vendors have antique books. What are the new books you're selling in there? I sell a lot of cookbooks

and then I sell a lot of children's books from a really cool company called Compendium. So I usually do larger antique furniture, and then I mix in with small market stuff to fill up the decor. How many copies of Vacationland by John Hodgman do you currently have in stock at this moment, would you say? 25? 50? Well, I can't find someone to wholesale them from, but we do have one copy at home. I do. Oh, all right. I'll let it slide. Whatever I rule today, I'm going to send you some copies to sell.

There we go. But on consignment. I want my money. It's 35%. Okay. Well, we'll negotiate. Let's see how it goes. 35%. So, okay. Well, we'll negotiate. Let's see how it goes. So you seem to want to restrict this case to the holiday time.

Right. Here we are at the end of November. You need him around the shop to haul antique checkout counters here and there and to and fro. How much is he home now and how much do you want him to be home? how much is he home now and how much do you want him to be home? Well, I mean, this year I will say is a little, he's going to try and make his case that he hasn't gone that much, but that's mostly because it's been unseasonably warm.

So the birds haven't been flying and deer season also hasn't opened. So, you know, with deer season, he'll be gone a lot. So I would say if we could just schedule it more, um, maybe reserve it for the weekends. I'm fine being at home with the kids on the weekends. Um, but yeah, getting them up and dressed and both to school and then back down fed for dinner and that that gets a little difficult so okay so josh you heard casey anticipating your argument a little bit there you want to say that you haven't been hunting enough this season because it's too warm for birds to fly or some garbage is that correct no no my argument is is much different than from what you've been told. All right. Let me hear your argument, Josh. So, you know, this season is her busy season.

And when she asked me not to go, I don't go and I help her. But it's just my feeling about it is I need her to not make plans for me. feeling about it is I need her to not make plans for me. And this is under the guise of her, uh, her work schedule. She's also got other things like this, this year, uh, the opening day archery season on deer. I didn't go, of course I didn't bring it up or complain, but I didn't go until now because until now saving it for now, uh, because she had planned for us to host a, uh, stock the bar party for a couple here. And I didn't know about it. You know, she told me about it late, you know? And so I just said, well, I guess I'm not going to that. Um, and she just, I'm not complaining cause she makes great plans. I mean, we always do

fun stuff. She always makes all of our plans i mean i i'm along for the ride and i do not mind that at all so you let me understand that you your premise here is that you are an understanding and loving husband who is happy to stay home to take care of the kids and be there for her except when she makes plans for you to socialize with other human beings and you're like i could be shooting a arrow into a deer's neck right now are you kidding me i think i mean that's that's a great way now quick question for you because you said some words i didn't understand you say on the first day of archery for deer i got all that you she had made plans for both of you to host a stocked bar party for a couple.

Yeah. What does that mean? Does that mean you guys, what does that mean? I don't know if you guys have it up there, but there is like, that's why I don't get it. There's like 30 parties for people who are getting married. And one of them is they get everybody together. I mean, it's kind of a cool deal.

It's you get all your friends together and everybody brings you a bottle of your favorite alcohol or whatever and stock the bar for the new couple. What an incredible tradition. It's a pretty it's pretty cool. We had we had a pretty good one when we got married. So, oh, so people threw you a stocked bar party and they actually attended The people who loved you actually attended the party rather than go kill a thing? They did. They did. That's unreasonable to expect of friends, but I guess they really cared about you. Casey, who's the couple that you threw the stocked bar party for?

Should I say their name? Yeah, you should definitely say their names. Go for it. Yeah, it's a local couple. John and Alejandra were close. I mean, I went to the same schools as him growing up and were close with their parents. And all of my other really close friends were hosting

and they just had asked us to host as well. So I once again, you know, these hunting seasons are so confusing that I had no idea that it was archery deer season day. It's called shoot a deer with an arrow day. So John and Alejandra will hear this and they'll know that Casey, you love them and Josh doesn't care whether they live or die. But my question is, did Josh go to this stock bar party or not? Well, we actually had to cancel last minute because my dad, who also is another guy in my life who, you know, outdoorsman makes me attend everything, So, you know, outdoorsman makes me attend to everything. Decided he wanted to take us and our children six hours away for the night to go fishing.

So we had to go six hours into Oklahoma to fish. So I missed the whole party anyways. Josh, I want to remind you you're under fake oath here. When you heard about John and Alejandra's stocked bar party, did you make a side call to your dad and say, Dad, you've got to organize a fishing trip on the quick to get me out of this junk party. I did not. Because it may be, I don't mind missing

shoot a deer in the neck with an arrow day, but I've got to get some blood on my hands. I can't just have fun with these people and give them alcohol no that was an entirely happy coincidence hello hello dad uh can you find a reason for me to go to oklahoma all right so josh the request is that you restrict your hunting through the holiday season to weekends. Why is that onerous? Saturday and Sunday. Uh, for instance, the crane that come in, you know, you can't just say, I'm going to go next Saturday. If there's a big cold front that comes in all the water that they land on around here is really shallow. And so if it freezes up and over, they're gone and they may

be gone for the year. And so you don't get another chance. Um, so you have to kind of be ready to go. And the other part is that there is virtually no public hunting land around here um i have a hunting lease that i pay for that's about three hours away from here and uh and it's really hard to get down there and hunt for a day and get and get back you know and uh you know i need to be there to help whenever i can and and the kids are a big part of that i can't leave her alone with the monsters for that long um but there's people that have places close by that um if they invite you i mean you got to be ready to go and uh so when she makes plans uh for, for us, not only her work plans, but other

personal plans, uh, it just kind of means, well, I don't, you know, if it's a good day for it, or if somebody calls, I can't go. You have to be at the ready to go hunting at a moment's notice in case someone's getting ready to post up on some crane at a nearby place. Is it like being a heart surgeon where you have to have a special pager? That's exactly right. It really is like that. I know it sounds absurd, but it really is like that.

Because if you're not given an opportunity to abandon your family at a moment's notice, you might end up spending less time with them because you'd have to drive three hours to your hunting lease. Well, listen, I spend a lot of time with my family. And like I said, I don't make any plans. I really don't have any other hobbies that I do outside of this for the entire rest of the year. And I'm always the, because both of us are self-employed, I'm always there to drop what I'm doing, to go pick the kids up, stay with them, to help her with anything. And when she asked me to do any of these things, I do them. But I would like it if, you know, the plans were consulted on instead of made. And then I just have to go along with it. If I could have a

input on those plans and at least try to uh try to plan it ahead of time can i interject well wait a second yeah can i say one thing i got your point casey well can i say one thing that just happened oh what happened this weekend so i casey was in charleston this weekend with uh her dad she she went for four days and uh so i had the kids didn't, didn't do any hunting. No big deal. That's I'm happy to do that. But then she sends me a message. I appreciate your sacrifice. She, well, that's not what I'm saying. She sends me a message that she wants to do something with me and it's a super cool plan like I said she always makes awesome plans it's just I got us tickets to go to New Orleans on the second which puts us in

the the pheasant hunt that I go on with her dad every year is uh gonna be during that no it's not until the fourth I remembered the Yeah, I know. We don't get back till that night. So we'll miss it. So you'll miss that peasant hunt. Yeah. And we only go on that one every year. I just go on that one hunt with her dad. And going down to New Orleans instead to go hunt nutria? Isn't that your idea of fun? If we we were doing that we're actually going to see a concert but like i said it's really cool and it's a great gesture and it's really it's a i've never been to new orleans i'm really excited about it but i would have rather it been not during my time of year which my favorite time of year where i can actually just get out i mean for hunting for me

is like it's like a nature walk with a prospect of food at the end. You know, it's not all just about going out and shooting something. It's about being part of nature. And I don't get an opportunity to do it a lot, especially around here. Well, okay. But I might argue you actually get the opportunity to do it a lot. I mean, it seems like you're tuned in to every hunting season there is. How often do you go out a week currently? I, well, let's see. I've been dove hunting twice.

Duck hunting, was it twice? Well, not this year. And? Normally. Last year was kind of the same. And it's changed. I realize it changed with the kids, but it's been a lot less. Right.

We'll stand by for a second, Josh. Casey, how often does Josh go out hunting a week? Is it during during a good hunting season? Yes. It would normally be, I would say, three days for sure. And that's just the only thing. Also, you know, it's a moment's notice. And so, you know, if I did have something planned, it's like, oh, sorry.

I mean, he comes out and he is loading the truck and I realize, oh, okay, you're going today. And how does that make you feel? Abandoned? No, I'm kidding. I usually do not mind it if I do not have work plans. Josh is a homebody and I like to socialize a lot still. And I have became over the years content going to these events by myself. So, yeah, as long as it doesn't conflict with a plan that I already have, because I'm a little OCD about plans. I mean, he's right when it comes to that. Well, it sounds like you're OCD about making plans, but not terrifically OCD about coordinating your plans with his killing seasons. Because you can't. Well, you know what pheasant hunting is.

But you never know when that pager is going to go off. I know. Come get a crane. You know, I thought I was marrying a contractor, but it is kind of like a doctor. That's a good thing. Yeah, but doctors do something else. They save lives. Josh, do you clean this stuff yourself?

Yes. Yeah, I do. Do you hang your game for a while to make it less gamey and do all that stuff? I do if it ever gets cold enough. It's rare that it stays cold enough. But if it isn't, then we just put it in the cooler with some ice and let it sit for a week or two. Yeah. And how much of your family's food do you provide on balance? Like 90% of the food comes from the sweat of your brow and the smoke of your gun?

Well, you know, in the summertime we've, we've got a garden that we get a lot from. You're shooting up cabbages out there? Yeah, I do. That's wrong. That's a winter crop. I don't even know why I said that. I apologize. Last year, I got an elk.

And so I really didn't hunt very much last year because we had plenty of meat. And a four-month-old baby. We had a ton of red meat last year. Um, and, uh, And that reduced the amount you went hunting? Yeah, definitely. Interesting. Yeah. There's, there's no need to, if your freezer's full. Josh, I have one last question for you. Uh, what does crane taste like?

for you. What does crane taste like? It's really good dark meat. Around here, they call it the ribeye in the sky, and it's kind of like a big fat steak. All right. I think I'm ready to make my verdict. I'm going to go into my hunting blind, which is shaped like a five-story building in Park Slope, Brooklyn. And I'm going to cogitate on my verdict. I'll be back in a moment with my decision. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Josh, have you seen that one, you know about those ESPN 30 for 30 documentaries about sports? No. Okay. Well, they got these documentaries about sports and there's this one, you know, Bo Jackson, the football and baseball star of the late 1980s and early 1990s? I know absolutely nothing about sports.

But you know that Bo knows various things. Bo knows. Yeah. I remember that. I remember that. In this documentary, he's just hanging out and seeming like the greatest guy ever. And he's making his own arrows. Do you ever make your own arrows?

No, I don't. I do shoot a longbow, which is kind of primitive longbow, but I don't make my own arrows. Okay. I'm picturing you now basically as Robin Hood from the Disney cartoon. That's pretty good. All right. Maid Marian. Yes.

How do you feel about your chances in the case? I'm feeling pretty good. I'm a little worried about the consulting part because I do like to plan um in advance and not have to really question other other parties involved um but yeah I mean I think I think there might be a a way to meet in the middle maybe Josh how does this meet ship like let's say from like i'm just going to pick two random places from like texas to los angeles um i i don't know i could work that out with you i have no idea but casey will have to let me go if i'm going to ship you anything so well we'll see where my loyalties lie

we'll see what judge john hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a second hello teachers and faculty this is janet varney i'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast the jv club with janet varney is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience, one you have no choice but to embrace, because, yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday

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please rise as judge john hodgman re-enters the courtroom josh i appreciate uh to some degree your, even though I do not partake in it. I appreciate that it is about being attuned to nature, though it has a different kind of relationship with nature than someone who simply goes hiking. I appreciate having shot at clay pigeons, the thrill of target shooting. It is not in me to shoot at a living thing and kill it. But that said, I am a carnivore, so I admit my hypocrisy and someone's got to do it. If I'm going to have the ribeye of the sky, someone's got to take that thing down. The difficulty here is that your sport, your hobby, your passion is entwined with a myth of providing for one's family.

And you are doing that to some degree. But you're going out and bringing home food for your family to gnaw on in their cave is not technically necessary in today's economy. And now coming into conflict with the fact that your family actually needs you around too. I appreciate that you're trying to keep this in balance. And I certainly appreciate that you love this pastime and you have a particular bond with your father-in-law such that you can get him to suggest fishing trips when you want to get out of a stock bar party i know that that's what happened i know it josh don't even deny it again i didn't i promise you know and that there are rituals in your life that you wish preserved uh such as the beginning of shoot a pheasant with a gun season

or shoot a deer with an arrow season, that you feel are not being observed by Casey, your wife, because she doesn't know what those seasons are. But I will say that while because of the weather and because of your duties as a dad, your hunting has already declined to a certain degree. You are going to have to acknowledge, no matter what I rule, that the time in your life that you can be on call to go hunting at any time, dawn or dusk, is going to have to end. It's just not going to be compatible

with an ongoing presence in your family. And this really circuitous logic that you've made, that you need to be able to leave to hunt at any moment so that you don't have to drive out to your hunting lease and then take more time away from your family, that's very self-serving. to drive out to your hunting lease and then take more time away from your family. That's very self-serving. It's hard for people who have hobbies, pastimes, passions, professional, creative, or otherwise, to maintain those, especially if they are as time-consuming as yours is, when you meld your life not only with another human being who has his or her own passions, creative, professional, and otherwise, but also two humans that you have to raise and feed, and what they need more than crane meat is their dad. So regardless of what I rule,

I want you to take that to mind. That's where I'm coming from in this. But where I think the crux really lies here is communication and personality. Casey, you've admitted that you like to socialize. You've also admitted that Josh doesn't like to socialize. It is not a surprise to me that you are making origami paper cranes to put in your stall in your 20,000 square foot antiques mall where you are dealing with humans all the time, going out and doing your own kind of hunting for cool old stuff at flea markets and so forth. And you are displaying these cranes to bring humans into your life and sell them old junk. Whereas Josh's relationship with cranes is to go out before dark by himself and see if he can kill one and eat it.

Introversion, extroversion. Seems to me that you are one of those terrific couples that maybe I know one or two of where the guy in the thing likes to just podcast and talk to strangers all day long on Skype, whereas almost no one on earth has ever met my wife. And so what I would say is that when you have this kind of particular friction, introversion, extroversion pairing, communication is really, really, really, really extra important as it always is in a marriage. And I'm not just talking about talking about your feelings and that dumb junk.

I'm talking about like, what's happening this week? What's happening next week? What's happening this month? What's happening next week? What's happening this month? When do I need you? When do I need you, the introvert, to sacrifice your natural tendency to not speak to any other humans on Earth except your nuclear family?

When do I need you to come out and help me give this bottle of Plymouth gin to these weirdo friends you don't know? When do I need you to come with me to New orleans to go see what band were you gonna go see uh dead and company what's that the grateful dead and company oh never mind goodbye forever i rule against both of you this is the sound of a gavel please welcome judge john darneil a gavel. Please welcome Judge John Darnielle. No, people like what they like. That's fine.

You guys already understand this. There has to be balance. There are times when it's going to be your thing, Casey, and it's going to be more social activity. And then there are times when it's going to be Josh's thing when he leaves you alone, abandoned with your family to take care of things yourself. Josh, you understand that there are going to be times when it's right to go out into the world and shoot a crane in the neck, which is hard to do. I appreciate it. It's a test of skill.

It's not a lot of neck there to hit. Or whether it's going to be time to actually help out and go to this party, or more importantly, go and move some old timey checkout counters around and help your bride with her store, with her passion. Right. Your hobby, your passion doesn't require any help. It's just you and the person who's beeping you to say, come hunt on my land right now. But she needs help. She needs a lot of help.

And you need to provide more of it. But she needs help. She needs a lot of help. And you need to provide more of it. That said, with that caveat, you know, I actually feel that the onus in this case is on you, Casey. You scheduled your Grateful Dead weekend in New Orleans over pheasant hunt. You have admitted that you make plans without consulting with Josh. I think Josh is ready to be told, no, you are staying home to help with this for these reasons. I think he is responsive to that. This is a situation where you both have to be a lot more, a lot more communicative with each other. that you know casey particularly with a busy season coming up you need to draw some guidelines for josh some bare bones minimum guidelines of even if that beeper rings he can't go and josh you need to abide by that but also casey you can't be making social plans without

consulting your husband even if he wasn't constantly itching to get away from you even if he wasn't constantly itching to get away from you. So with all of those warnings to you, Josh, I do find that the onus in this case is on Casey to make her needs clearer, to be more thoughtful in her planning, to include Josh in the plans, in the calendar, and to learn about the hunting season so that if she is going to ask him to make a sacrifice, such as you don't get to shoot a pheasant on the first day of pheasant shoot day, that at least you're cognizant,

Casey, that that's the sacrifice you're asking him to make. And then it's up to you, Josh, to actually make it. So in this case, I guess I find in Josh's favor, this is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules, That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. This seems like a big victory for you, Josh. How do you feel? I feel like everything he said was right. I mean, we're there. But that's I mean, that's kind of the status quo as it is. I didn't articulate very well, but I mean, we're already there as far as, you know, if Casey needs something, I do it. And it's not, it's not that I question it at all. You know, she's, she's my number one priority. So, you know, it's no big deal for me to not go.

Josh, are you prepared to do the necessary talking to your partner to make this plan work? You can't just hide in a mud hole with a gun. No, no, I can't. No, I can't. Yeah, definitely. Definitely trying to have more foresight is a good thing in planning. Casey, how do you feel? I feel like I should have seen this coming. This is kind of what everyone in my entire life has always told me is that I have to communicate more. But I just did not see that happening.

Casey, Josh, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Well, another Judge John Hodgman case in the books. Before we get to swift justice, we want to thank Ryan Stratton for naming this week's episode, Grouse Negligence. If you'd like to name a future episode, like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook.

We put out our calls for submissions there. Follow us on Twitter, at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman, and you can hashtag your Judge John Hodgman related tweets. Hashtag JJHO. There's always a good chat about what happened on this week's Judge John Hodgman on the Maximum Fun subreddit. You can find it at MaximumFun.reddit.com. This week's episode was recorded by Glenn Storley at Covenant Studios in Amarillo, Texas.

Our producer is the great Jennifer Marmer. Now, Swift Justice, where we answer your small disputes with a quick judgment. Michael has a cocktail question for you, Judge. He wants to know, can a Moscow Mule made with gin be called a London Mule? Oh, very interesting. Yeah, Moscow Mule, look, very, very popular cocktail these days. It's actually a mixed drink because it has ginger beer in it, as well as vodka and lime juice and served traditionally in a copper mug. You see them all over the place. I even saw one in a

Brooklyn-style mixology bar speakeasy in Orlando, Florida. It's everywhere now. Originally devised by Smirnoff owner John Martin and his pal Jack Morton of LA's Cock and Bull Tavern, according to our friend, Dr. Cocktail Ted Hay himself. Now, if you were to change it to gin, what would it be? Well, I will say this. There is already a gin variant of the Moscow Mule called the Gin Gin Mule, which was invented by another hero of cocktail culture, Audrey Saunders, the founder and owner of Pegu Club here in New York City where I live. She invented this one, and it is gin instead of vodka, fresh lime juice, ginger beer, but you also add a little simple syrup and some muddled mint leaves. Now

that is normally served not in a copper mug, but in a cocktail glass. And if you are 21 and over, you should give that a try. It's delicious. It's called the gin gin mule. But to get back to the question, if you were to take a regular Moscow mule and just swap out gin for vodka, I don't think there's any other drink. So you can call that london mule or you could even call it a hodgman mule if you want it that would be hard to pronounce hodgman mule i like that you're laying claim to this drink sure yeah why should i let michael take all the credit i think i say this drink is called a king thorn Thorn. I love that. That's a great name for a drink. Do you know what? You're absolutely right. Michael, you have invented the King Thorn. This is the sound of a gavel. That's about it for this week's episode. Submit your cases at MaximumFun.org slash JJHO

or email them to us at Hodgman at MaximumFun.org. No case is too small. If you're not sure about it, just send it to us. We'll decide. Don't worry. We're not going to judge you. We're super chill about that kind of stuff. We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. MaximumFun.org.

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