Judge John Hodgman - Hallmark of Justice

Episode Date: August 31, 2016

Judy files suit against her husband, Jayson, because he has stopped giving her Mother's Day cards. Jayson argues that she’s not his mother, so he shouldn’t be held responsible. Judy believes he should be setting a good example for their kids and would like to feel appreciated. Who's right? Who's wrong? With Summertime Funtime Guest Bailiff Monte Belmonte! 

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm summertime, fun-time bailiff Monty Belmonte at WRSI 93.9 The River in Northampton, Massachusetts. This week, Hallmark of Justice. Judy files suit against her husband, Jason, because he doesn't think he should be required to give Judy a Mother's Day card. Jason argues that she's not his mother, so he shouldn't be held responsible. Judy believes Jason is acting like a bad mother. Shut your mouth, I'm just talking about Jason, whom Judy thinks should be setting a good example for their kids. Judy would just like to feel appreciated. Who's right? Who's your mother and who because she

said so, that's why she's right. Only one man can decide please rise as judge john hodgman enters the courtroom and presents the obscure cultural reference justice that's why people come here to get internet justice people want a hunting lodge they go to wisconsin they want to rest they go to new orleans they want to get justice they come come to the podcast. That's why it's called Justice Podcast Justice. You see signs around this podcast with guys shooting ducks. No, they don't shoot ducks, raccoons, beavers. This is a justice place. They came for justice. That's what we do here. Now, you're a nice guy. You make me laugh and everything. But our policy is shut your pie hole. I'm sorry. Summertime fun time. Guess bail if Monty swear them in.

Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? So help you ISIS, Gaia, Madonna or whatever for now and all maternity? I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling despite the fact that Judge Hodgman values motherhood so much he has an extensive placenta collection? Yes. Perhaps.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. Judy and Jason, you may be seated. Welcome back. Summertime, fun time. Guest bailiff, Monty Belmonte. Did you say summertime, fun time or fun time, summertime? Summertime, fun time. Summertime, fun time. Guest bailiff, Monty Belmonte. Do you say summertime, fun time or fun time, summertime? Summertime, fun time. Summertime, fun time.

Guest bailiff, Belmonte. Welcome back. You were in Maine, as you just said. You took a vacation from vacation. That's true. I'm near you, but not near enough. I did run into, I ran into Jeb Bush while I was there, though. So that was an interesting.

Did you really? At a lobster hut. And he ordered a cheeseburger, as did almost everyone else at his table which would have uh you know taken him out of the running for contention for president anyway in my opinion i think uh i think america voted with their hearts love that dude but we don't want to clap yeah i'm i've grown to really really appreciate Jeb Bush over the past couple of months in ways that I didn't when he was still in the running. That poor guy. Did he give you a turtle?

He didn't. He did tussle my son's hair a little bit on the way out, and I thought, you're no longer running. You know that, right? But it was hard not to feel slightly bad from the last place he thought he was going to be in August of 2016 was Noonan's Lobster Hut in Kennebunkport. Oh, no. I think he probably would have made it there at one point or another. Yeah, right.

For a cheeseburger. I know. For a cheeseburger. That's sad. It is. Ordering the wrong food. Low energy. Sad.

Sad. He tussled your son's hair. Which son? Pax. Oh, wow. So maybe some of the peace wore off on him. We'll see. He's got some good tussling your son's hair which son packs so maybe some of the peace wore off on him we'll see he's got some good some good tussling hair yeah we gave him a shampoo right after though that's one of those things where you're kind of like don't touch my child but then also i realized jeb bush you're

so desperate for human contact yeah i could definitely tell oh that poor guy well welcome back in any case. Thank you. But we're not here for you, summertime fun time guest Bill of Monty Belmonte. We're here for Judy and Jason. Judy and Jason, for immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors, can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom? Jason, you have been dragged into this

court against your will. So you have the option. You can either guess first or make your wife, Judy, guess first. What's it going to be? Judy can guess first. Judy can guess first. Judy, what is your guess? I am going to say it is something from the Godfather. Something from the Godfather. Some sort of quotation from The Godfather. Something from The Godfather. Some sort of quotation from The Godfather. Okay. So a quotation from The Godfather. Do you have a character?

No, I've never seen the movie. You would need to have the character in order to get it right. Okay. Can I make another guess? Sure. I mean, you can guess a character within The Godfather or make another guess. Sure. You know what? I'll pass because I don't character within The Godfather or make another guess. Sure. You know what?

I'll pass because I don't know the characters in Goodfellas either. You just say The Godfather in The Godfather. Fine. All right. That's a guess. Put it in the guess book. Jason, spelled with a Y. What is your guess?

Your Honor, may I ask you to repeat the reference? No. No. Why weren't you listening? Have you heard this podcast before? Yes. I've heard it a couple of times. Okay.

Well, you know, it's very, it's a very unusual request. Uh, but I'll tell you what, I can't, I can't do the whole thing.

I'll just do every other word. Justice. Why come to internet people hunting? They Wisconsin. Wanna they to orleans want get they to podcast why called podcast you signs this with shooting they shoot raccoons this a place they for that we here now nice you make laugh and but policy can't give pie hole sorry did that clarify it for you it's clear as mud you have to make a guess or we'll never get to the justice. I'm going to guess. You appreciate that it's going to be themed to the point of contention here today, which is whether or not you should be giving your wife a Mother's Day card.

I do appreciate that, which is and I'm buying time and I'm trying to guess. I don't have a guess. I'll pass. No, you can't pass. You have to guess something. Governor Scott Walker. Wow. You were correct. No.

It would have been great if you were. A wild guess. But all guesses wild or not are wrong. So, I can reveal to you now that that was my very poor imitation of Paul F. Tompkins is legendary imitation of the voice of the director, Gary Marshall, who passed away on July 20th of this year. Rest in void and peace.

20th of this year, rest in void and peace. Gary Marshall, of course, was the creator of Happy Days and also the director of the movie Mother's Day, which I did not want to quote and discovered that I couldn't because apparently all copies of that film have been destroyed at the request of this cast. No, I'm sure it was a fine movie. I don't mean to be cruel. Cameron Esposito, friend of Max Funn, was in it, the movie. But instead, I quoted Gary Marshall, one of his rare acting parts as the casino manager in the Albert Brooks film Lost in America. Have you seen that movie, Jason or Judy?

Maybe years ago. Maybe it came out in 1985. So that is more than one year ago for sure. Was Nicolas Cage the star on that show, in that movie? No. I don't know that Nicolas Cage has been in an Albert Brooks movie, but it would be an interesting career choice for him, for both of them, honestly. No, it's a very funny movie, Lost in America.

Gary Marshall's good in it, but neither of you could get it, so we got to move on to Justice. Judy, you are a mom of how many kids? We have two boys, ninth grade and seventh grade. Oh, I like how you're doing with grades as opposed to age. That's a good... Well, school starts Monday, so it's been on our minds. Oh, where do you live such that school starts before Labor Day? Just outside of Washington, D.C. and Maryland, just across the border. Okay. Are your boys excited about going back to school?

Yeah. I mean, the ninth grader, I think, is appropriately a little apprehensive about starting high school. Sure. But yes, I think they're both excited. Yeah. And did you get all your pencils and your pens and your back-to-school clothes and stuff? And the three-ring binder that zips up around the edges, yes. Your trapper keepers?

Yeah. Do they still have those? You know what? They're high-tech now. They've got the zipper. They cost a lot of money, and they use them, and they're happy. Uh-huh. They're just an application now?

Exactly. They don't actually exist. They're on your phone. Do both of your boys have phones? The older one does have an iPhone. He got it in the middle of seventh grade and was probably the last of his friends to get one. And the younger one who is going into seventh grade has the old fashioned flip phone. And that's what he has. And he can text and communicate. You want, you want him to have the hard experience of being a social outcast flip phone.

What is he? Your grandmother? Well, that all sounds good. And what did you, what did they do all summer long? They went on a trip with their grandparents and they go to overnight camp for three weeks. So we've actually seen very little of them.

But they come back into town tomorrow night, and school starts Monday. What did you guys do all summer? Okay, actually, we went up to Maine for a long weekend to celebrate our 17th anniversary and went to Kennebunkport for the first time. Did Jeb Bushussle your hair jeb bush jeb bush was at the ken of bunkport service plaza selling fresh bananas and tousling everybody's hair yeah that's how he stood bananas and tussles fresh tussles here did you have a nice time in kenny bunkport we did we we did go and walk by the walker compound

and we walked by saint anne's church and we went to I think it was called Mabel's Lobster Shack or Lobster something. I haven't been there since I was a kid. That's southern Maine. Right, Joel? I'm up here in in down east. Wouldn't that be correct, Joel? That is correct, Judge. That's right. Joel Mann, manning the knobs and buttons here at WERU in Blue Hill, Maine. WERU.org. So I haven't been to Kennebunkport in a long time. Did you stay at the Colony Hotel? No, that was, we did not. We stayed across the street at the Non-Anthem.

Oh, the Non-Anthem. Yeah, yeah. Excellent brunch. They did have a great brunch. it was included in the room rate i went when i so i went to kenny bunkport a few times with my mom and dad when i was a kid because it's pretty quick drive from the boston area and uh and we stayed at the non-antem one time along with my my dear old friend jeremy morrison and i must have been in probably seventh grade, is my guess. There's a little story about my own adolescence. And I remember that Peter Rosenmeier,

back in old Brookline, Massachusetts, had introduced me to The Specials, which is a really good... Now they're sort of back in action. Ska band from England. And one of the dudes, Jerry Dam dammers had reformed with a band called the special aka because they had broken up and he had to use a different name and he released this incredible track called free nelson mandela and this was at a time when nelson mandela was

still in jail because i am old it was also still alive and i remember introducing introducing Jeremy to this song, listening to it on cassette tape as we bobbed around in a little rubber dinghy in the canal by the docks behind the Nonantum Hotel. Only, I would say, within the past year or so did I truly appreciate the grievous incongruence between the song Free Nelson Mandela and two white kids listening to it in Maine on vacation. I grimace deeply. I guess you can't grimace deeply, but I grimace a lot when I think about that. In any case, welcome. I hope you enjoyed your time in this wonderful, bleak and Caucasian state called Maine. We have to get around to this case. You're mad at your husband because he won't give you a Mother's Day card. Your kids give you Mother's Day cards?

The older one is very good about doing that. The younger one will procrastinate and procrastinate. And if he's not interested in doing something, he won't do it. So I did not get a Mother's Day card from our younger son. Oh, so and did you go into his room and cry and go, why don't you love me enough? No, you know, at the end of the day, I think he tried to sing some sort of song off the cuff to me in the kitchen. And I told him I wanted none of that. What did he try to sing some sort of song off the cuff to me in the kitchen. And I told him I wanted none of that. What did he try to sing to you?

Free Nelson Mandela. Free Nelson Mandela. I didn't even want to hear it. I was so put off by it. And I think just like walked away and told him how disappointed I was. I'm trying to think of mother themed songs. And the only one I can think of is Kick Out the Epic Mother Frender by the Scandinavian DJ duo Dada Life. Was it that one? It was not. In any case, all right. So you're mad that Jason isn't giving you a Mother's Day card, even though he is not your son, unless this is a highly unusual marriage.

And because you require paper proof that people love you. Is that not so? That is correct. Why does it bother you that Jason does not give you a Mother's Day card? Well, I've been a mother now for almost 15 years, and I believe for 14 of those years, Jason has always gotten me a card either from the family, we love you, or from him as my husband. And there's lots of greeting cards from, you know, two moms from your husband.

Sure. I mean, they'll sell any kind of greeting card. Believe me. They'll come up with any context. From your pet to your other pet. Happy pet day. There pet. Happy Pet Day. There probably is a pet. So for whatever reason, this year, Jason decided to not get me a Mother's Day card and made a point of not giving me a Mother's Day card.

And I think that. So this isn't just an oversight or just general insensitivity. The reason it's important to you is that a precedent has been set and now there has been a affirmative policy shift. Jason, why have you changed your policy on Mother's Day cards this year? Have you stopped appreciating your wife and her motherly role? Appreciating your wife and her motherly role? No. The reason for the previous Mother's Day cards was to set an example for my children in how they are supposed to behave and what they're supposed to do and say for Judy.

And now that the children have, the boys, are really young men, have reached an age, the precedent and the examples have been set. And therefore, I didn't feel like I should be giving a mother's day card to my wife. Your job is done. You've done your work. Yes. I role modeled the behavior and they should be giving a mother's day card.

And as you heard, our older son was doing it and our younger son, um, had some issues with it, but eventually did it. He didn't. Okay. Okay.

Whether or not this, uh, approach works, we can, is a separate issue right now. I just want to get to the, to the bottom of why, what Jason is doing here. Did you resent having to write a mother's day card all those years? No. Uh, do you dislike the mother's Day card as a tradition? No. I appreciate that a moment or a day should be set aside for individuals to take the time to thank their mothers for all that they do. But that's not the case here between me and my wife.

All right. Look, here's the thing. If she didn't care about Mother's Day or Mother's Day cards and was like, I don't care if you get me, don't give me anything. I'm not your mother. Then obviously, who cares? You don't do it it doesn't matter none of this matters but if it's important to her and she would like to receive a

card from you it's it's it's it's a very easy thing to do so i guess the question i'm asking you is why not just do it you just want the three minutes back it's a matter of principle i mean she's not my mother why would i give her mother's day card that says happy mother's day so all the years you were doing that that was to train the boys and now your job your job is done right that's it you're out okay you violated your principles for all these years and i'm with you on this i i hear you i'm hearing your argument you violated your principle for all these years you lived'm with you on this i i hear you i'm hearing your argument you violated your principle for all these years you lived a lie you've done the work of modeling card writing for your sons and now you're out what what is your age if i may ask my i'm almost 46 yeah so

this is all judy this is all of a pace with where he is in his life. He's 46 years old. He's going to start giving up caring about everything. He's done. He's done. That's what he's saying. He's done. I have better things to do. Yeah. Do you still wear clothes around the house or do you just wear underwear? Depends on the season. Yeah, right. That'll change.

We use the term Hallmark in the name of this case which really bothered me because it feels like buzz marketing but this is a term a general term and this is the hallmark of the middle-aged man slowly giving up all pretense all social conventions all social contracts erode and become meaningless as he looks forward to his future uh of of no i don't want to say well why am i why am i beating around this bush he looks forward to his future without any physical affection for the rest of his life he descends deeper and deeper into weird dadness and and takes up esoteric hobbies and gradually comes up with principles and arguments that allow him to not do simple things because he just doesn't feel like doing them enjoy the rest of your marriage guys i'm there because i'm 45 and i'm i'm in your defense here i'm feeling

a little bit like why am i even do why am i even doing this why am i even returning phone calls why do what you know like what who cares who cares about me let's let me let me just do my thing i don't want to i don't want to write a card. Is that wrong? Right. No, you're not. I agree with you 100%. Oh, boy.

I mean, it's the principle of the matter, right? It's up to the kids now to celebrate Mother's Day, to support their mother, and show how much they love her and affection for her. I mean, it's like you said in one way. It's a Hallmark holiday. It's sort of made up. Why do I I don't have to do it on that day. It could be any other day. I don't. She's not my mother. That is fine with what regarding what he just said, except he does not choose a different day during the year. So there really isn't a different day during the year when he's buying me a card or bringing flowers, occasionally flowers. So the appreciation, and I know he appreciates me, you know, day in and day out, but I just think it would be very special to have a day in addition to my birthday to appreciate me in, you know, a way like this

and all that I do for the family. Do you feel unappreciated by your husband? I do. No, I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't feel unappreciated, but I just don't understand why, you know, the rest of the world is celebrating Mother's Day. Why can't you just go get me a card? Okay. Even if I, and the other thing is, Jason, even if I were to agree with your premise, and I am open-minded to it. I have not made a verdict of any kind. but if your premise is that you trained your boys to do it and now you can pass on, uh,

the, the gesture of mother's day celebration to them while you go drink a beer in the garage with the lights off or whatever it is you're going to do instead, you haven't finished the job because the younger boy just sang half a song in the kitchen. Unless Judy is a liar. What's true? No, Judy's not a liar, but once you get to a certain point, I mean, you can tell a child who's almost 13 years old,

you can tell him until you're blue in the face to go upstairs and make a card for your mother and demonstrate affection and honor her on Mother's Day. But if he's not going to want to do it, he's not going to want to do it. I'm not going to, what am I going to do, lock him in his room and hold him there? I mean, it's not feasible at some point. I mean, he's going to do what he's going to want to do on this. Yeah, right. I mean, but if your argument is that you are training him to do it, and now the training is done so you don't have to do it anymore, then there's a problem because the training clearly isn't done

if he's still not doing it. You need to keep modeling writing those cards. Yeah, but who's to say that if I keep modeling it? Even though it means, well, no, but I'm just going by your argument. You understand? I agree with you that if you lie to yourself and lie to the world by gritting your teeth and writing an empty expression of affection on a bogus thing sold to you by a drugstore and handing it over resentfully to your wife and violating all

of your principles in order to model card giving to your sons. And your argument now is your mission is over because you've done it. I'm saying you haven't because your younger son hasn't done it yet. But what's to say that if it is continued to be modeled, it would be successful to begin with if it hasn't worked by now. Well, then you're saying that your argument is invalid in the first place and you've just decided you want to just be honest and just say, I don't feel like doing this anymore. Well, no. I mean, there's a point where you can only train until you can train.

And then if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. What is your profession? I'm an attorney. Yeah, I could tell. Boy, oh boy. I know I'm talking to an attorney when I'm getting beat soundly. You have something back from everything. Everything I say, you're going to give me something back.

You got it. I get a lot on the line here. Yeah. Well, do you? I don't know what the verdict's going to be. Well, do you? I don't know what the verdict's going to be. Well, right. But I mean, if I find it in your wife's favor, all I'm going to be doing is saying write her a card. Is that so bad?

Why is that so bad? It's not that bad. But it's the principle of the matter. It's a Hallmark holiday. And, you know, and she's not my mother. What do you do for her birthday? We celebrate her birthday. Judy, are you satisfied with the celebration of your birthday?

I am satisfied, except this year I needed to remind Jason to go and get me a cake so we could have cake as a family. But generally, yes, he is good about my birthday. Jason, what happened with the cake? Honestly, I don't remember. I forget what happened. I mean, our birthday, we normally celebrate the birthday, and I forgot to go and get her a cake, and so I went and got her a cake. I mean, there's nothing more exciting than that.

I'm just going to offer you this. Maybe you forgot to get her a birthday cake because she's not a baby. She's a grown adult. Yes, that's true. Does that sound mean to you, Judy? Oh, not at all.

You like having a birthday cake on your birthday? I love having a birthday cake on my birthday. And I think part of what is going on is that Jason hates his birthday. He really does not like making a fuss over himself. Well, when is Jason's birthday? In February. What day?

February 22nd. Oh, yeah. No, why would you like? Yeah, I'd hate that too. No wonder he hates his birthday. Can I share something with you? February 22nd, I was about to say, isn't the 22nd? Because that's my wife's birthday.

And I've never gotten her a cake. She does not want to celebrate her birthday. But you do. But you do, Judy. People do. Some people like it. Right. So I love my birthday.

I feel like it's the one day out of the year where people can make a fuss over me. I don't mind the attention. I like going out with my girlfriends. I love getting together with, you know, doing something with our family. And I think the same goes along with Mother's Day. I would love the attention for a day, love to be, you know, made a fuss over. And Jason just has a different personality and a different outlook with those days, whether it be Father's Day, whether it be his birthday. He just doesn't like the attention. And he would rather just sort of lay low. Sure. Well, people like what they like,

especially when it is a day marking off their inevitable trudge towards death. Maybe they don't want to celebrate that. That's sort of the way I look at it. But which is not to say that you shouldn't have the time of your life on your birthday. And absolutely, Judy, you should be loved up and adored and made a fuss of on your birthday if that's your thing. And on Mother's Day, too, if that's your thing. So this isn't just an issue of him not writing you a card. This is an issue of not showing adequate excitement over you on Mother's Day. Correct?

Correct. Do you dispute that's Day, correct? Correct. Do you dispute that, Jason, or do you accept that? I accept that she is not excited by the lack of attention that I give her on Mother's Day. You really parsed that one, counsel. Wow, that was legalese. Do you have a problem showering your wife with affection and making a big deal of her on mother's day yes or no yes she's not my mother right okay gotcha how do you feel when your wife says things like i really wish there could be another day when i could be sort of fetid and not fetid. That means smells bad, but fetid,

like thrown a party for in French and just sort of made a fuss over, you know. If I were her husband, I would be like, why do you feel so, why so sad? Why, we love you. What do you need this for? Exactly. And that's the position on Mother's Day.

And she has that day, which is her birthday. We make a big fuss of that. And also, we celebrate our anniversary together as a big day. Right. And that's enough. That's all she gets. Well, there's the every day also. Well, there's the everyday also.

And Judy, is your husband good on the day-to-day appreciation and love and expressions of appreciation and so forth? Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. You're not trying to use Mother's Day and your birthday as one-two punches of love to make up for 363 days of disinterest. Correct. I am not. I think it is stressful for Jason, though. You're just greedy. You're greedy for it.

You want more. You have birthday. You have your anniversary. You want more. May is a difficult month for Jason between Mother's Day and my birthday. I think he hates February 22nd. He hates all of May. This dude's quite a date hater. May you coming around with your hint of spring.

Why is May so difficult for you, Jason? I did Judy. Those are Judy's words. I mean, May is what it is. why is May so difficult for you Jason? Those are Judy's words I mean May is what it is as Judy said it's Mother's Day and her birthday are like a week apart Oh they're a week apart I gotcha and so we have this Mother's Day issue and then

it's her birthday so we have to have a big party on her birthday big celebration and so I mean it's not a big deal to me. A big celebration really just means the two of us and our two children, four of us. What? Perfect Mother's Day. Knock it out for me and then I'm going to give you my verdict.

Okay, great. In your mind, Perfect Mother's Day. This is what I'm going to order if I find in your favor. I wake up and the kids are probably on screens. So Jason goes downstairs and rounds everyone up. And I am brought breakfast in bed with coffee. And the four of us go and do some activity together for the day. And that's really as simple as it is.

I really do not. I don't want presents, I think. And just like what kind of activity? Go to the National Zoo, see some pandas. Go to the Smithsonian Museum, air and space. I don't know. It depends if it's too humid and too hot at that time of year already,

you know, nothing too strenuous outside. Just something where we're all engaging with each other. It could even be a movie. It really does not matter. Maybe a brunch? Perfect. The four of us can go out to

brunch together. At the Nonantum. Good brunch. Yeah. You know, there's a direct flight from D.C. to Bangor, Maine. You could come up here to Blue Hill in May. It'd be lovely. Or we could drive to Annapolis.

There's supposed to be a very good breakfast place there where I have not been. Oh, you have a place in mind. I do have a place in mind. Where Jason has been and he raves about it. Normally, I don't brook this sort of advertisement, but now I'm very curious. What is the name of the place? I think it's called Shirley's. Jason, what's it called? I honestly don't remember, but I do believe Judy's right.

I think it is called Shirley's. I have no recollection of that, Your Honor. I have no recollection of Shirley's, Your Honor. I have nothing against May. May is what it is. Yes. And there are also some unreasonable expectations as to time because usually there's a lot of other activities going on on Mother's Day. So tell me, break her request apart.

Why is it unfeasible, counselor? Well, most Sundays, our boys are very active in athletics and usually have team sport commitments throughout the day, specifically baseball. And they each play. So that's about two hours each. That's about four hours of time. So sports is ruining your family's life. Got it. Right. That's what I'm putting down on the record. But time. So sports is ruining your family's life. Got it. Right.

No, that's what I'm putting down on the record. But usually we go out for dinner on Mother's Day. Oh, so you go out to dinner. Judy, do you not go out to dinner? I,

I don't remember. I do not recall your honor. Got it. I have the evidence on my phone of a picture that we went to, to her favorite sushi place from last Mother's Day. That is true. Judy, I didn't ask what you do with your days. Your husband's an attorney.

Do you work outside the home or no? I do. I work part time for a trade association in Washington, D.C. I work in their membership department. Is it the Corrugated Cardboard Box Association by any chance? It is not. Am I allowed to say the name of the trade association?

Oh, you sure are. It is very exciting. It's called the Council on State Taxation. Whoa. Well, you could, yeah. That's no corrugated box trade association. Well, all right. So what is your training to work at that association?

Well, I used to work there before we had kids and I did legislative work for them. And then I took some time off and they called me about three and a half years ago asking if I wanted to come back part time to to work on membership for them. Got it. So I happily agreed. Judy, one last question. I know it's within a week of Mother's Day. What is your birthday? May 20th. Oh, excuse me. Your birthday is May 20th and Mother's Day usually falls when? Like May 11th, May 10th, May 11th. Right. Okay. Got it. Great. Well, I think I have heard everything I need in order to make my decision. So I am going to go into my own garage and turn out the lights and drink a beer in total silence.

And then I will come back out and tell you my thoughts then. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Jason, do you celebrate Christmas or any other gift giving holiday in the wintertime? Judy and I exchange gifts for for Hanukkah, for the Jewish holiday. Okay. That is not technically, that's an oil holiday for the Maccabees, but yet you feel comfortable giving a gift to her on that day that's not technically associated with you and her and your relationship, or is it?

I wouldn't use necessarily the word comfortable in exchanging gifts, but it has been a custom that we have come to agree on. So you've just not yet come to agree on the Mother's Day card giving when it comes to you not being actually the lineage of the woman that you're married to. Judy, are there other days of the year that you feel like he lacks appreciation, that you would like to see more appreciation, holidays, etc.? No, that's really it. I mean, we decided early on in our marriage that we were not going to exchange Valentine's Day cards.

We felt that was another, you know, mass greeting card holiday. So no, just Mother's Day and my birthday. That's all I'm looking for. Jason, are you a divorce lawyer? No, but maybe it's in the future. Maybe you should start looking into that. We'll be back with the judge's decision on Judge John Hodgman after the break. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join.

And you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning, the experience of learning, causes a sound to happen? Let's hear the sound. Yep, that's the sound of you learning a new language with Babbel. We're talking about quick 10-minute lessons crafted by over 200 language experts that can help you start speaking a new language in as little as one, two, three weeks. Let's hear that sound. Babbel's tips and tools are approachable, accessible, rooted in real-life situations, and delivered with conversation-based teaching. So you're ready to practice what you've learned in the real world.

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Just buy it online. This is professional grade cookware that is available online directly to you, the consumer, at a very reasonable price. Yeah. If you want to take your cooking to the next level, remember what so many great dishes on menus all around the world have in common. They're made in Made In. Save up to 25% this Memorial Day from the 18th until the 27th. Visit MadeInCookware.com. That's M-A-D-E-I-N Cookware.com. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman reenters the courtroom. May 20th is Judy's birthday. It is not a hateful day like February 22nd. It's a day of celebration.

And as far as I can tell, satisfactory celebration. It is on Mother's Day when all things fall apart. Here is my feeling. Judy deserves to be celebrated. She is obviously a great wife and obviously a great mom and clearly doing a lot of work for state taxation and we can't thank her enough for that right joel that's correct judge right monty yes indeed um and and i think that and i think and i appreciate you know that if you are the kind of person who likes to be made a fuss over then there is a certain obligation among your

loved ones to to do that to do the things that make you happy especially on those special days. If you're a person like Jason, who doesn't like to be made a fuss over and would rather forget that he ever had a birthday, it is the obligation of his loved ones to respect his wishes to some degree. But I also appreciate why it is hard for him to not want to do the simple thing of writing a card on Mother's Day because he doesn't care about it. And he is not your son. Of all of the arguments that Jason has made,

this is actually the most compelling to me because in a way that I didn't appreciate this is actually the most compelling to me. Because in a way that I didn't appreciate before talking with both of you, there is now, I realize, something a little weird about a dude giving his wife a Mother's Day card. It is too often that dudes marry women who remind them of their mothers, That dudes marry women who remind them of their mothers and too often that they end up asking those women to be their mothers as they go on together in life. Even to the point of dudes referring to an elderly dudes referring to their wives as mother. This is gross and demeans both parties and while i appreciate that writing the mother's day card on mother's day for your wife is not itself a crime i have done it myself only now do i see what is slippery that it is the very top of a not so very slippery slope, but a slope nonetheless.

I am going to find in his favor and not mandate the writing of a card, but instead to continue with all good faith and effort to force sing a song at the end of the day, which is something your son should be ashamed of for the rest of his life, such that he needs therapy and then marries a woman who reminds him of you, Judy, in order to make up for it. I also find in Jason's favor insofar as the holiday is arbitrary and bogus to some degree, and also falls very close to Judy's birthday, which is a lot. I mean, two weekends in a row, all dedicated to Judy. It's a lot. It's a lot of gifting and planning and thinking and cake remembering that has to be done. And for someone who doesn't believe in holidays to begin with, that's

almost too much to ask. But to balance these rulings against Judy's obvious desire and, I think, Obvious desire and I think earned right to be celebrated. I am going to move Mother's Day officially for your family to six months later. So we're going to say one, two, three, October or five, six. Yeah, well, November by my count, May, july august september october november but now we're getting into into thanksgiving i think october the first saturday in october i'm not even gonna make it sunday this holiday is just gonna be the greatest i'm sounding like donald trump all of a sudden. Tremendous.

So tremendous. It's going to be such a holiday, it'll make your head spin. Huge holiday. We'll call it Other Mother's Day. We will call it Other's Day. That's good. That's actually a good Other Day, we'll call it. It's a different holiday.

It's not Mother's Day. The boys still have to get cards for their mom on mother's day and you guys still go out to dinner and everything else but it's going to be your mother's day is going to be low-key but other day which is going to be the first saturday in october from here on out is going to be an other day to celebrate judy the way likes. And there's going to be cake. And there's going to be cards. And you're going to go to that place in Annapolis that Jason refuses to remember. And that's going to be an other day tradition

for time immemorial. That is perhaps a fair ruling? Maybe. But it certainly is capricious. And that's why this court has come to this decision. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Judy, does that feel like a fair judgment to you? I am so happy. Yes, I'm really, really very satisfied with this outcome. Now it's not so onerous to have to do two things in a whole month, Jason, and you can spread it out a little bit. Six months later for the first ever other day, which will be Saturday, October 8th, 2016, I would put in your reservations now. How do you feel about the decision, Jason? I'm very happy. Thank you very much. He is so lawyerly, this guy.

Once the judge rules, he packed up his briefcase and he is out the door. Judy, I'm going to write you a Mother's Day card because I underappreciate my wife and I admit it and I'm a terrible person about it and I try to be better. I'm going to write you an actual Mother's Day card. What is the appeal process? Wow, he doesn't even like this ruling. Bailiff Monty, get him out of here. One last thing. Jason and I communicate a lot via calendar invites, and I am going to send him a calendar invite as soon as we get home

to celebrate other day for the next 15 years. You know, that's the secret to keeping a marriage spicy, talking via calendar invites. I know that it seems unfair, Jason, that I have just, that this is yet another bogus holiday for you to observe. But remember, this is not a greeting card company that made up this holiday. This is a podcast that made up this holiday. And this will always be extra special because I made it up just for you guys. So why don't we call it Judge Hodgman Day? Because that's, I have that, I'm saving that for something else.

Judy, Jason, thank you so much for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. podcast. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice but to embrace because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. Thank you. And remember, you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit.

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