Judge John Hodgman - Kanga and Roo Court

Episode Date: March 8, 2023

Joan brings the case against her sister, Barbara. When Joan was 8, their aunt gave her a present: a framed print of Winnie-the-Pooh. Joan hung it in the bedroom she shared with Barbara – but she left it behind when she got her own room. Now it’s 50 years later, and Barbara says the Pooh print belongs to her. Joan wants it back! Who’s right? Who’s wrong?Thanks to reddit user u/BadArtistGoodListenr for naming this week’s case! To suggest a title for a future episode, keep an eye on the Maximum Fun subreddit at maximumfun.reddit.com!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, Kanga and Rue Court. Joan brings the case against her younger sister, Barbara. When Joan was eight, their Aunt Jane gave her a present, a framed print of Winnie the Pooh. Joan hung it in the bedroom she shared with Barbara, but she left it behind when she got her own room. Now it's 50 years later and Barbara says the poo print belongs to her. Joan wants it back. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference. Poo in particular stands out in this regard as while he was a silly old bear that misinterpreted words and thought simply, he did take the time to think when faced with problems, leading to some surprisingly philosophical conversation and reasoning. Meanwhile, this version of Pooh is a killer who can't grasp that a child who left didn't mean to abandon them.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear them in. You messed up my joke that I was about to make. Oh, no. Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? So help you God or whatever? Or whatever. Do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that his favorite Winnie the Pooh character is Gopher? I do.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. Gopher, of course, being the character on The Love Boat, played by Fred Grandy, later a Republican member of the United States Congress, who also happened to be the father of my friend from college, Mariah Grandy, who listens to the show and is still belting out those beautiful show tunes in Chicago, Illinois. Hi, Mariah Grandy. I hope you're doing really well. Meanwhile, Joan and Barbara, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors.

Can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced when I entered the courtroom? I'm going to give you a hint. You know what? I've changed my mind. I'm not going to give you a hint. Oh, come on. I don't. All right.

All right. All right. Fair enough. Fair is fair. The quote was from a website. The quote was from a website. It was about a piece of culture. Any guess, Joan? What's your guess? No, none. I can't imagine Winnie the Pooh as a website. The quote was from a website. It was about a piece of culture. Any guess, Joan?

What's your guess? No, none. I can't imagine Winnie the Pooh as a monster. You can't imagine Winnie the Pooh as a monster. So guess something else. How about Goodnight Moon? Do you mind if I suggest a guess? Please do. It's related. It's related. And what about you, Barbara? What's your guess okay so good night moon you said is related yes it is but that one is taken oh don't guess that one oh okay um i am also at a loss okay i'm gonna suggest two things you pick which one you want to guess. Okay. Okay. The Runaway Bunny or The Murder of Roger Ackroyd. I'm going with The Runaway Bunny for two. The Runaway Bunny. Both books by Margaret Wise Brown.

Author of the book The Wonderful House, which is of course the source of the quote, all guesses are wrong. You're both wrong. Good Night Moon is wrong. Runaway Bunny is wrong. Even The Murder of Roger Ackroyd are wrong. You're both wrong. Good Night Moon is wrong. Runaway Bunny is wrong. Even The Murder of Roger Ackroyd is wrong. What all of those books have in common, however, is that they all have recently come into the public domain. Specifically, The Murder of Roger Ackroyd came into the public domain last year. Both of the Margaret Wise Brown books come into

the public domain this year, 2023. What book also came into the public domain in January of 2022? Joan, you're making a gesture that suggests that you know what I'm talking about. Joan, what is the answer? That would be Winnie the Pooh by A.A. Milne. That is absolutely correct, but it does not win you the case, unfortunately. Not yet. And what happened when Winnie the Pooh came into the public domain? Well, John, it led to Winnie the Pooh's most famous adaptation, the film Winnie the Pooh Blood and Honey. That is correct. Which I went to see

in a movie theater last week. Oh, no, you didn't, did you? I was obliged to by a member of my family. week. Oh no, you didn't, did you? I was obliged to by a member of my family. Oh no. Yeah, it is a horror film based on Winnie the Pooh, in which Winnie the Pooh and Piglet conspire to murder a bunch of people because they're upset that they were abandoned by Christopher Robin. I want to be very, very clear. I watched the trailer for this movie out of perverse curiosity. I was disturbed by it and not amused in any way. And may I, may I guess that the movie is bad and not worth seeing? I think whether it is worth seeing depends on your taste. It is not to my taste. I was impressed at how not bad it is.

Really? It is very brutal and unrelentingly dark uh it is a very grim film it is not goofy or evil dead e or fun uh but it is very competently made good looking and well acted for a tiny budget horror film. So yes, there's a guy in England who the moment that Winnie the Pooh came into the public domain decided to make a Winnie the Pooh movie in which Winnie the Pooh and Piglet are murderers.

Great. And that is called Winnie the Pooh Blood and Honey. Absolutely correct. So that gives us license to do whatever we want on this podcast. And listeners, if you have ideas for an edgy, gritty remake of Good Night Moon or The Runaway Bunny or The Murder of Roger Ackroyd, now's your chance. Let us know what you're working on.

I won't steal your IP. If you come up with a good idea and send it in, I might read it, but I won't steal it. It'll be copyright you. But meanwhile, let's get to the case. Who seeks justice before me in this court? I do. That would be Joan. And Joan, you are the elder sister to Barbara. Is that correct? That is correct. Okay. And so I actually am looking at you here on my teleconferencing. I will move your screen to the top of the pile so that you are above Barbara because she is your younger sister. What? Thank you.

Sorry about that. That is completely appropriate. Completely appropriate is what I was thinking too. Joan, what is the nature of your dispute with Barbara? Oh, it's not that we shared a bedroom as children, but we did from up until about the age of 10, we shared a bedroom. And we had an aunt. She's since passed. And she wasn't the nicest person in the world.

This would be your Aunt Jane. Not to be confused with my Aunt Jane. Do you have one as well? I do. And she is the nicest person in the world. But not, I have to say, Aunt Jane, not my favorite aunt. I love all my aunts equally. Beth, Jane, Judy, Janice, Susan, I love you all equally. Aunt Jane's been out there peddling this story that she was always my favorite aunt. And I'm just here to say, officially for the record, I don't play favorites. All right. Sorry. Your Aunt Jane, though, is a jerk.

Well, she wasn't the nicest person. And she only ever gave me one thing, which was this print of Christopher Robin and Winnie the Pooh standing at a bridge. And she hand-colored it with colored pencils. And she gave it to me in a frame. And it hung in our shared room. What a creep she was to do this. And she gave it to me in a frame and it hung in our shared room. What a creep she was to do this. To only give you this one piece of lovingly, well, I mean, in many ways, she's the same as the guy who made Blood and Honey.

She took this original IP and then put her own twist on it. She did. With colored pencils. But naturalistic hues. Naturalistic hues. So she did this nice thing for you that's right in the room that you shared with your younger sister barbara that's right yep and so what's the what's the issue it's i mean well i i got my own room eventually and poor barbara her room was it should have been a hallway because the two bedrooms on that floor, we walk through that bedroom to get to the stairs. It's a very, very old house.

So I left it when I got my own room. I left it behind because it didn't go with the decor of my hip new, you know, only room. How old were you when you moved to your new room? So this would have been, I would have been 10. 10 years old. It was time to put aside childish things. Well, not put them aside altogether, but leave them in the child's room. Leave them with the child, Barbara. That's right. So I passed it by every single day. So it was still mine because there it was right by the stairs and I saw it every day.

I went to college after that. Yes. And I assumed that the print would have stayed where it was in our childhood room. But years and years later, I went to a party at my sister's house. How many years later would you say? 25? 20? Decades later, let's just say. Decades later.

We were adults. You were adults at the time. We were drinking, in fact. And I found the print. She was having a party. It was nothing like a Joan and Barbara party then. There's nothing like a drunk Barbara, honestly. That's right. There's nothing like a drunk Barbara, honestly. So I found the print at her house and probably just started yelling right away. We had a dispute.

At this point, you were adults. She had moved into her own home. And you're both in Maryland now. Maryland is a state in the United States. We've always been in Maryland. We've never been anywhere else but Maryland. You've always been a couple of Mid-Atlantic gals. That's us, Mid-Atlantica. Right. And so when I found the print in her house, I yelled at her. I told her that it was mine. So she thought we should resolve the dispute as quickly as possible. So she picked up the phone and she called my parents.

It was 1.30 in the morning. So my dad answered the phone assuming that someone was, you know, dead. And the look on my sister's face is one of my favorite memories of all time when my father answered the phone. So we got my mother on the phone and Barbara asked her the question, did Aunt Jane give this print to Joan? And my mother said, yes. At which point my sister in typical little sister fashion went, nah. And then my mother said that my mother said, well, maybe not. Maybe, maybe it was to both of you. At which point she took that as affirmation and rubbed it in my face. But it's lies.

Let the record show the deployment of a very powerful legal argument of nuh-uh. Exactly. Sustained. It's a go-to in the legalese of the Weber family. And so you got a muddled decision from your mother. That's right. Because she was cowed by Barbara's nuh-uh. Often continues to be cowed by Barbara's nuh-uh. Right. And so now you've turned to me as a final authority to decide. I think that makes sense, ultimately. The next time I saw it was she then had a child, a little girl,

my only niece. And I found it at her house and I started the argument again, at which point she deployed the second most popular legal argument of baby sisters, which is, how could you do that to my daughter? It's her most favorite thing in the world. She's just a baby. You can't take it from her. And I buckled at that point. And now she is 21 years old. The nieces. The nieces. And I believe that it is time for Winnie the Pooh to come home to where he is most loved with me. Now, you say most loved. I do. And Barbara, I will hear your case in a moment.

I saw you leaning in. You are ready to go. You are almost literally loaded for bear. I have taken a screenshot of both sisters, including Barbara, who is wearing what looks like the skin of Winnie the Pooh. It's some kind of Winnie the Pooh, like costume or outfit, but it looks like you, it looks like, oh, it's like a hoodie. Okay. It's a Winnie the Pooh hoodie. It's a onesie. Where the, a onesie no less, but the hood is a Winnie the Pooh hoodie. It's a onesie. A onesie, no less. But the hood is a Winnie the Pooh face.

So you look like an old bear trapper of old timey times who skinned Winnie the Pooh and are wearing the bear skin on your head. Yeah, John, this goes far beyond what you're describing. Certainly, she looks in the frame of our view like an old-time bear hunter who is wearing a bear head on top of his head but again this is a onesie she looks like she has completely flayed winnie the pooh removed his flesh right And donned his skin head to toe. Right. My husband told me not to wear it.

Now I know why. It's like the cozy goth of Grizzly Adams wear. It's like A.A. Milne meets Braveheart. Frankly, it's more terrifying than Blood and Honey. It's really hot, too. Well well you should feel free to take it off because it's definitely scaring me okay i mean you can pull the the hood the hood down although wearing a winning the poo uh cowl or blankie over your head while recording is of course industry standard how you record voiceover auditions. That's what I'm saying. Pretty good.

It was good for acoustics, but not good for your comfort. But I just want to contend for a moment, Barbara, before you get to speak your piece with Joan here. You say that this is a beloved childhood artifact and that it should be returned to the house in Maryland where it is most loved, which is your house in Maryland. And yet you left it behind decades ago. I did.

Much like Christopher Robin left Pooh and Piglet behind in the movie Blood and Honey. And then they got so mad that they turned into murderers. Sadistic murderers, specifically. Right. Well, I do have an answer for that. And it is the childhood home. Oh, you inherited the childhood home. Well, we all live at the childhood home in a way. The property was about 20 some acres, and part of it was divided off and Barbara's house is on that property. And then the old house, the family house, as my parents got older,

my husband and I added on to that house, making it a duplex. So we all do live on this weird little commune. This is getting more frightening by the moment. We should have sent you a picture. It's very beautiful. I'm sure that it is. But let me clarify. The house that you currently occupy is the house where your original childhood bedroom was,

where this thing was hung. It's attached to that house. It's attached, but you're closer to it than Barbara is. I am all of about 200 yards closer to it than Barbara is because her house is up the hill. You know what, Joan? Yeah. You really painted a lot of word picture there describing the property in Maryland, the nature of the compound, the nature of the extensions. Yep.

I mean, I'm surprised you didn't bring up easements and borderlines and having the lands for fade. I bet you could. I could. But do you know what I have to say to that? Nuh-uh. Nuh-uh. Nuh-uh.

Nuh-uh that matters. You left it behind and you know it. Stop it. Stop. Barbara, you talk now. Okay. Joan left the print behind and you with it. Yeah, exactly.

She left me with my crazy parents. Just kidding. For the record, I don't have a good memory of when she showed up to that party. I was a little bit buzzed. And this Winnie the Pooh was in my bedroom my whole childhood. So I really did assume it was mine. So Joan went off to college, didn't take it with her. I went off to college and I will say I didn't take it just like she said it would have been

cool in my college dorm, although I did decorate with Snoopy, so I probably could have. although I did decorate with Snoopy, so I probably could have. But then when I moved to my kind of grown-up house, that's when I took it. Now, Joan did live in a grown-up house before I did, so she could have easily at any point come and gotten it from our house. But I took it because in my mind, it was mine. And my mom didn't say that I couldn't take it. So mom didn't say. So I took it. So then, you know, when I'm in my 20s, she says it's hers. And I am shocked because I'm like, what are you talking about? Like in my brain, it's always been mine. So fast forward, I forgot about this whole night. She's also talking about when she talked to me about my daughter and my daughter had it in her room. I also don't remember that conversation. I don't know why. I don't. I really honestly don't remember that at all. So when she contacted me about this podcast, in my mind, I still thought

that this was mine. The Winnie the Pooh print was mine. Have you ever considered a career in politics? Because I think that you could probably withstand any congressional hearing simply by saying, nuh-uh, or I don't remember. I was drunk. And also mom didn't say it was wrong. I would say that I have actually written her name into as a write-in candidate for school board. I think that would be good. What do you do for a living instead, if I may ask, Barbara? I'm a children's librarian.

A children's librarian. So indeed, you work with children's books like Winnie the Pooh. Exactly. Joan, do you have a job that connects you to children's literature in the same way? I'm an English teacher. Wow. At what level, if I may ask? At the upper school level and the college level.

You can say high school level. I can, yeah. We call it an upper school. Don't trick me with your word salad. It's private school talk. I teach at a private high school. She's trying to convey that her students wear those little blue wool shorts. Exactly that. Just like Christopher

Robin, for example. Just like Christopher Robin. I see. Okay. Well, you both, thank you for the work that you both do in those honorable professions. You're welcome. Let me ask you a question

just to clarify this for a second. I just want to get this timeline down. Joan, you moved out, went to college. You left your younger sister, sister Barbara behind there I did two or three years between you would you say three three years between you okay and then Barbara you still slept in that childhood room with that print of Winnie the Pooh and Piglet and Christopher Robin of course uh we will be uh featuring that on our show page at maximumfund.org as well as on instagram at judge

john hodgman on instagram because uh the ip is free now we'll do whatever we want ip freely that's exactly right uh then did you what did you move out to go to college or something after that barbara yes did you take it with you or did you leave it behind so I left it behind because you know I had left it behind well I will say that we had you know concrete walls or whatever in college and we had very strict orders that we couldn't you know put nails in the wall you had to use tape you know that sticky tape and I would not have been able to hang that in my dorm. And I knew that, I think. Because it was framed. Because it's framed and it's heavy. Oh, I knew.

Right. And you went to college at the College of Survival Bunker Construction in Southeast Maryland. All right. So you left it behind. When did you reclaim it? I reclaimed it when I was 22 and moved in with my friends and got my own room. So you were like, okay, I'm in my own room now. I'm 22. I'm starting my life. I got some drywall. I've got a stud finder. I know how to hang a picture now. I'm a grown up. Yep. I'm going to go back to that house and grab that thing.

Yep. Grab that print. And Joan, at this point, you were 24, 25. Had you given a thought to this thing? Yeah, it was always at home. It was part of home. But did you ever think to yourself? I mean, did you make your own for yourself at this point after college? Oh, I did. Yes. I was in Baltimore at this point.

Charm City, the city that reads. That's right. And at any point when you were setting up house in Baltimore, did you think to yourself or say to anyone or write in a letter that you then sealed and mailed to yourself to establish evidence, I can't wait to hang the Winnie the Pooh print in my new home here in Charm City, Baltimore. No, no, because to me, it belonged. Did you ever have any intention of reclaiming it? To me, it belonged at home. It was from the childhood bedroom and it should be there anytime I went up the stairs from then on, Winnie the Pooh and Christopher it should be there anytime i went up the stairs from then on winnie the pooh and christopher robin should be there and why should it be there well because it's part of the the your childhood history and you and you leave that at home history you turn

one's childhood history i believe you're mistaking that winnie the pooh print with a poster for casablanca and then another poster of the cover for Amphigory, the Edward Gorey collection. We have the Gorey in common, but we definitely had different childhood bedrooms. I don't know why I got that Casablanca print. That was weird. your childhood into a little bit of a shrine. And Winnie the Pooh belonged there because it was in that room that our mother read us every single Winnie the Pooh story and read us every single poem. And in high school, when I did oral interpretation, I did Winnie the Pooh stories. When I was in college and I was finding myself, I found the Tao of Pooh. I mean, Winnie the Pooh is a constant in my life.

He's my favorite childhood character. And so for me, it was part of the childhood home. And then she tore apart the shrine. You just felt better feeling that it was there, even though you were not there to look at it. That's right. Right. And of course, the other thing is that it is the sole piece of Winnie the Pooh merchandise available on earth. It's the only way to remind yourself of Winnie the Pooh and feel a connection to it.

It was the moment in my life that this aunt was nice to me around something that was really culturally important to me. I mean, Winnie the Pooh is my guy. Let's take a quick recess and hear about this week's Judge John Hodgman sponsor. We'll be back in just a moment on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman podcast. Podcasts at MaximumFun.org, and they are all your favorites. If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network, boy, oh, boy, that would be fantastic. Just go to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman Podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In. Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right?

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That's M-A-D-E-I-N cookware.com. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning, the experience of learning causes a sound to happen? Let's hear the sound. Yep, that's the sound of you learning a new language with Babbel. We're talking about quick 10-minute lessons crafted by over 200 language experts that can help you start speaking a new language in as little as one, two, three weeks.

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our listeners right now. Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners at babbel.com slash Hodgman. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. Barbara, you mentioned that when you went to college, you decorated your bunker, your concrete bunker with Snoopy. Snoopy themed. You had moved on. I knew I was going to come back. Yes. What are we talking about? Well.

Tell him. Tell him. Tell him. I had Snoopy bedspread and curtains and a Snoopy, stuffed Snoopy. You still have a stuffed Snoopy on your bed. The same stuffed Snoopy that I sewed the mouth back on because a dog had ripped it off. It's the same Snoopy. You still have it in your bed. I don't have it in my bed, but I do have it in my bedroom.

Joan, you mentioned that when you left for college, you did not take the print with you, the Winnie the Pooh print with you. Instead, you probably decorated your college dorm room with other things. What were your posters? I had no decorations on my walls. Take on me by aha. I had a roommate who was in charge of all decorations and she was really classy. I had a roommate who was in charge of all decorations and she was really classy. So we had fuzzy rugs and grass mats and, you know, important art on the wall. Fuzzy rugs and grass mats?

Yeah. Were you glamping through college? It was the 1980s. Do you remember one poster that you had on your dorm room, whether or not you chose it? I had a poster of Baryshnikov. Baryshnikov. That's a good dorm room poster. It really is.

Jesse Thorne, do you have a really good dorm room poster? At one point, I had our entire dorm room door covered in 1987 Donruss baseball cards. That's pretty good. On April Fool's, someone moved them all to my neighbor's door and I never found out who. Whoa, college prank. In fact, it was the door of our friend Dan Grayson who made the presentation for our live tour recently. For our Frontier Justice presentation? Yeah.

That's fantastic. Someday we'll solve that mystery. By the way, the Hardy Boys are in the public domain now, so get them on the case. First three Hardy Boys. Wow. Valerie Moffat, did you ever have a cool dorm room poster, something like that?

No. So I never lived in a dorm in college, but my childhood bedroom at the time, which I was still living in uh this was before i had escaped the male lifestyle as it were was pretty much plastered top to bottom with led zeppelin posters so it was pretty cool it's pretty cool it's pretty cool wait valerie when when your gender was affirmed did you like switch to Indigo Girls posters or something?

No, Kate Bliss. Got it. Also very cool. I already outed myself with my Casablanca poster. Barbara, tell me about Anne Chain. Did Anne Chain ever give anything to you? She never gave anything to me. She had a son my age, so I was at her house a lot.

So she had every opportunity to show generosity to you, but she did not? Yes, correct. Did she have a special relationship with Joan, i.e. she played favorites? I don't think so. I don't know what happened the day she gave that to Joan. I always thought it was mine. So I don't know the backstory to whether she gave it to her for her birthday or when she was born. I don't know. Do you agree that Aunt Jane was not the nicest person to use? 100%. I agree. Can you give me an example of how she was not particularly nice so she uh would refer to her her daughter's boyfriend as puke that's what she called him wow so that's just one of the many things i remember about what was what was she was she harsh was she was she cruel was she mean was she like the ants in James and the Giant Peach?

Not to that extent. She just she wasn't very nice. She wasn't like a nurturing, you know, it's not a milk and cookies kind of ant who knits little things for you. She had a very good wit, though, and she was very sarcastic. And when you're young, you don't understand sarcasm. So, you know, I guess she thought she was funny sometimes, but, um, she also give something to one sister, but we're not giving anything to the other sister. Right. That sounds right. That kind of fun joke. There's a daughter who's close to my age. So we have, you know, the two of us, uh, Elizabeth is only literally a couple of weeks younger than I am.

And then Jonathan is about a month older than Barbara. But Elizabeth was never allowed to spend the night at our house because we were, she called us ragamuffins. We were two sort of farm kids. We liked to play outside and get dirty, and she preferred cutoffs to be hemmed. So I think that gives you a sense of who she was. Do you remember when she gave the print to you, Joan? I do. Tell me about what happened. Tell me about what happened. Well, it was kind of, I don't want to say that it was a moment where she and I bonded and we expressed our love for one another and she said, I want you to have this.

I don't need you to tell me the aboutness. That's my job is to figure that out. Just tell me the details of what happened. Just the facts, ma'am, as they say. It was a very matter-of-fact moment. They came to the house for Thanksgiving and she just gave it to me. That was it. Do you remember her saying something to you? No, she wouldn't have. She would have just given it to me.

Was it wrapped? Oh, no, not at all. It was just there. Handed it to you? Yes. Did she say, this is for you, make sure your sister never gets her dirty farmhand paws on it? You know, now that you mention it, I believe that she might have said that. Let me, yes. No, she didn't.

You're under oath. I know. She didn't say that. I doubt that she said it. I object to myself for leading the witness and I sustain my own objection. Did she say, this is for you? I'll remind you you're under oath. Yeah, I don't remember her saying anything.

I remember her giving me the print with the frame. And honestly, that was it was a big deal because I'd never had like I'm a little kid. I never had a framed print before. And, and I knew that she had hand, I don't know how I knew that she had hand colored it, but I did. And it was, it was really a moment where I thought she did care. And then, but in that moment, I do remember it because she had never given me anything before and she would never give me anything again after that. What room were you in? We were in the hallway, so the door is on the side.

I don't need to see blueprints, Joan. I'm an imagist. Okay, I respect that. I understand. Go ahead, zillow it up for me. Let me hear the whole landscape of the house. Well, no, that would take too long because I'd have to go into the construction that happened on that side of the house to create a door.

There's a lot to it. We were in the entrance hallway between the front door and the kitchen. And was there anyone else there? Actually, I don't remember that. There must have been because Thanksgiving at the Weber household is just dozens of people. So there had to have been other people there. But in your memory, it was a private moment between Jane and you. It was. And I just ask, is it possible that she might have confused you for someone else, like her own daughter, another cousin.

I know you have an older sibling, too. We do, yeah. Definitely not him. Do you think that this was a gift for you or for the child who happened to be standing there? No, so now you're breaking my heart, John Hodgman, because I believe so there's a lot of psychological stuff with this because as a child, you don't expect grownups to not like you. It's just a really kind of surprising thing. So she would say these terrible things to me, you know, sort of all the time commenting on my appearance. You know, she called my hair a rat's nest because I had just been outside playing. So this was one of those moments where it was like, she likes me. You know,

she actually likes me. And then it was gone. So, you know, that moment does ring true in my head, but it was like, that's why is because I thought something had changed. I thought that now, you know, she would be nice to me, but no. And had something changed? No, I think if you, if I were to guess what happened is that she just made two and like, oh, you can have it. You girl, you're close to Elizabeth's age. You here, here you go. Oh, she may have made one for, you know, done two, made one for her own daughter. Right. And then cast this one off to you.

Right. It may. So you're acknowledging it may not have meant to her, what it meant to you in that moment. Oh, I'm more than acknowledging. It's one of those moments in life that you have to accept that it did mean more to me. Oh, no, it's okay. I'm very sorry that that's an ambiguity that you have to live with. But I know it sounds genuinely painful. I mean, I'm sorry that Aunt Jane was a jerk. Oh, we can't say that. We can't say she was a jerk

because we have to understand her life. But that's another story, John Hodgman, that you don't need. Absolutely. I'm very sorry that Aunt Jane left you wondering how you felt about her. Thank you. Which is a jerky thing to do. Yeah. There you go. That's true.

That's what I will say. That is true. This isn't to suggest that there isn't an Aunt Jane point of view to this whole thing. Obviously, there's context that I'll never get because Aunt Jane is no longer with us, I presume, right? That's true. Or else we could have resolved this. And just to be clear, none of your cousins wants this piece of art, right? No.

It's just between you and Barbara at this point. Yeah, our brother isn't interested in it either. He doesn't care. He doesn't care. Fine. He would be here if he cared. Exactly. What's his name?

David. Typical David. Yep. Classic David. Well, we call him Prince David. We do. Oh, rough. I was just thinking, this is a total Prince David move.

Yeah. I actually called him Jesus Christ when we were in high school. I was a... He was so perfect. So, Barbara, you have a daughter, is that correct? Yes. She grew up with

this print? From the time she was born. It was in her childhood room. Right. Because you had taken it, showed it off at this party. Joan tried to reclaim it. You said, nuh-uh. Joan didn't get it back then.

Correct. You kept it, went on, had a child, and it was now part of her childhood room. Yes. What does she feel about it? I don't know if I can speak for her. Nice try. I would love to say she would be devastated if it wasn't in her room. But honestly, I can't speak for her.

Have you asked her? I haven't. I should have. But maybe I didn't want to know. I don't know. I will say. Let me ask you this question. Yes.

Do you have her telephone number? I do. Do you have the ability to text her right now? Yes. All right. Would you please text her and ask her how she would feel if her Aunt Joan were to take the poo print away. All right. I will text her.

As Joan knows, she doesn't often answer her texts, but I will try. She's in college. No, no, completely. I understand about college-aged children forgetting that you exist and refusing to answer even the most simple questions by text until you feel completely erased and despairing. But I will say you should add to your message before you, have you sent the first one? I did. Send one more quick message. Okay. And this message should be, if you do not reply in the next 10 minutes, I will presume the answer is I don't care. Okay. I'm setting a timer. Sent. All right. Timer is

going. Is your daughter your only child? No. So I have a son who is two years younger than my daughter. Do you anticipate that he feels a connection to this poo print? I definitely do. So I could, I feel pretty strongly if I would ask him this question that he would not be happy about it leaving the house. Follow-up question. Do you find the term poo print as disgusting as I do? Yes. All right. Pretty amazing amazing that aml got away with calling the character a poo yeah you know what i mean it was 1926 i know that that was a long time ago but surely poo meant a poo even then i'm too afraid i think so whatever the case so you're

saying you think your son would be upset too yes so he nightly listen have any evidence have any evidence that he has a particular connection to this print i have evidence that he has a connection to winnie the poo a.a melanie and so therefore i assume he has a connection to this print because we also played poo sticks all the time when they were little which is what i didn't think i didn didn't think it could get closer than print. You bring Pooh sticks into the conversation. Jesse Thorne. Judge Hatchman.

I think it's going to be one of the top rated episodes among Oscar Thorne. Among the audience of Oscar Thorne's and his ilk. So you also play Pooh sticksicks, which is a game, a Winnie the Pooh game. Right. And that's what's depicted in the print. It's Christopher Robin and Winnie the Pooh and Piglet playing Pooh Sticks on a bridge. You're on a bridge, you drop a twig into moving water. Yes. Below you. And then what happens? And then you run over to the other side of the bridge to see whose stick is in the lead. I see. So it's not like the game pick up sticks.

No. No. It's not like you're trying to pick up sticks or put it this way, grasping at straws the way you are right now trying to make an argument. What? Well, everyone loves Winnie the Pooh. That doesn't mean you have evidence that he's particularly connected to this thing. And it wasn't in his childhood bedroom, correct? That is correct.

Okay, I have an answer. Don't give me the answer yet. Don't give me the answer yet. Let's take an emergency break. You won't get to hear what Isabella says until I tell you to watch up here on Hulu, March 24th, make sure to watch up here starring Mae Whitman,

Carlos Valdez, and featuring various other actors who are very, very skilled. And then also me rounding out the cast up here on Hulu, March 24th, but hold now for that answer still. Cause I want to ask Joan a question, Joan, this is a personal question. I hope you don't mind if I ask, I don't mind. here on Hulu, March 24th. But hold now for that answer still, because I want to ask Joan a question.

Joan, this is a personal question. I hope you don't mind if I ask. I don't mind. Do you have children? I have one daughter, yes. You have one daughter. And what is her age? She's 24.

She's 24. Also an adult at this point. Does she have a connection to this particular brand? No. No connection. i appreciate your answering honestly swiftly without making up a connection to try to win the case and without resorting to uh descriptions of foundations and uh and where the well is on your property or whatever i could i know i appreciate your fairness. Appreciate your honesty.

This is the thing I want to ask you, Joan. And we don't know Isabella's answer just yet. You are an aunt to Isabella. How would you have felt if some years, maybe decades, after Aunt Jane gave you this print, she came to your home and said, actually, I want that back. I want that back. I meant to give it to someone else or I decided I just want it back. How would you have felt if you had grown up with this in your bedroom?

How would you have felt about your aunt if Aunt Jane had done that to you? So I need to do some clarification and some contextualization. I mean, as someone who grew up with a jerky aunt. Isabella did not grow up with a jerky aunt. Isabella grew up with an aunt who adores her. So my point would be that Isabella also comes down to the family home and she would be able to visit it there as often as she wished. So you're saying that you are so unlike Aunt Jane that the comparison I'm making is inapt. I have to say that it threw me. I'm finding it very difficult to compare myself to Aunt Jane. I think that if you had asked Aunt Jane a single thing about my life, she would not have been able to answer it. But I can tell you an awful lot about Isabella because

we're actually pretty tight. Barbara, will you affirm or do you deny that Aunt Joan is not Aunt Jane, even though those names almost sound very much alike? I know. It's confusing, but I will affirm that Aunt Joan is nothing like Aunt Jane. She doesn't have a history of doing jerky things? No. All right. It's hard to say that, but no. All right. It's hard to say that, but no.

Before I consider my verdict, we will have to hear from Isabella. But before that, let me ask, Joan, what would you have me rule if I were to rule in your favor? I would have you rule that the print goes back where it was in our childhood bedroom. Back to the original room. Who sleeps there now? Nobody. Barbara, what would you have me rule if I were to rule in your favor? I would have you rule that it stays in the house of the person who has thought it belonged to her for her whole life. Thinking is nine-tenths of possession is what you're saying. Nine-tenths

of the law. Thinking I own it is nine-tenths of the law exactly she's using a legal corollary of Harold Hill's think system that's exactly what I'm doing well established already in the field of music this is an extension is there trouble right here right here in Maryland City so it appears the capital T that rhymes with P and that stands for poo. Stands for poo. Oh, gross. All right. I do have to hear this evidence before I make my verdict.

Would you please read me the text that Isabella wrote back to you? Yes. Barbara. And you swear that this is true. I swear that it's true. Do you want me to read what I wrote to her so you know I didn't try to sway her? Yes. Read me the messages you wrote to her. Okay.

And then read her response, please. Oh, but before you do. Yes. Up Here premieres on Hulu March 24th. Please check it out. It's a really, really fun romantic comedy musical set in 1999 starring the incredible Mae Whitman and Carlos Valdez. All right, here we

go. Okay. So I said, how would you feel if Aunt Joan gets the Winnie the Pooh print? If you do not respond in the next 10 minutes, I'll assume you're okay if she takes it. She responded, ha ha, oh gosh, would be sad, but would understand why so urgent. My order to you, Barbara, is leave Isabella on read. Let her tolerate some ambiguity for a little while. Love it.

And I'll be back in a moment with my decision. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Joan, how did it feel to hear that text? It sounds exactly like what Isabella would say. It sounds exactly right. It wouldn't make me sad, but if that's what needs to happen, then that's what should happen. Barbara, what was it like for you? Yep. I, that I was not at all surprised. She's very diplomatic.

Joan, why so urgent? Well, it's, it clearly is not urgent. It, it has been a longstanding thing, but I, I feel as though it's time for me to give up ancient grudges through the act of justice. Barbara, do you feel ready to release these grudges? I didn't really have grudges about this. I mean, because for whatever reason, I must be burying it and it's all new every time she brings it up again. I mean, we know what's going on here. You're drinking to excess.

Yes. She has a wonderful dissociative quality where she doesn't remember a lot of bad things that happened. equality where she doesn't remember a lot of bad things that happened. She doesn't remember us fighting as children and she doesn't remember these kinds of things. So it's a, it's an interesting. It's all new every time. It's just like Henry Fonda. Joan, Barbara, this is material for that couples therapy podcast where the immoral therapist puts couples therapy onto a podcast. Okay, well, we'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about this when we come back in just a moment. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney.

faculty, this is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience, one you have no choice but to embrace because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls.

If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Hmm. Are you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I.

It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-o-p-p-p-d-c-o-o ah we are so close stop podcasting yourself a podcast from maximumfun.org if you need a laugh and you're on the go judge hodgman we're taking a quick break and I want to open by mentioning. Yes. That people will have the chance to watch you on their televisions on Hulu.

March 24th on the HIT television program up here. I just got my reviewer copies. I'm excited to watch them. I got them in my email inbox today. You did? I did. That's terrific. You did. I did. That's terrific. I'll watch anything, anything that involves my good friend, Bobby Lopez and his wife, Kristen obviously two of the finest composers of show music in this world that we live on.

They've assembled a cast and crew of Broadway greats to film for you a really, really wonderful romantic comedy musical starring Mae Whitman and Carlos Valdez. It's called Up Here. I may have mentioned it before. I'll say it one more time. Up Here. U-P space H-E-R-E. It's on your Hulu's March 24th. I do hope you check it out. But Jesse, when I think about the week that begins March the 20th, I don't just think about Up Here, because something fun is coming up. The Max Fun Drive, John. We've got... The Max Fun Drive, John. You're right.

Special episodes and all kinds of cool activities and meetup day and all kinds of neat stuff planned for March 20th through two weeks after that. It's going to be a great time. And it's also essential to the operations of this organization. We're going to have a great time. And it's also essential to the operations of this organization. We're going to have a cool announcement to share as well about this organization. That's all I can say.

But we're really proud of the Max Fund Drive. We're really proud to work for you, the audience, the people who are listening, you right now. And we hope that you will join us during that time. And you'll get cool stuff and everything. But yeah, you'll be hearing about all the all the cool premiums and bonus content and little stickers and fun items and good feelings that you have by becoming a member of Maximum Fun if you're not one already or upgrading your membership if you have the means to do it. you'll hear all about

it as we get closer to max fund drive but for now just circle those dates that jesse mentioned march 20th through two weeks from then so i guess that's the march 34th yeah whatever it is exactly it's gonna it's gonna be a lot of fun and it truly is you know it's not only the best time of the year to support the network if you can but it's also just one of the funnest times. For me, it's a great time to reconnect with other MaxFun hosts, to see what else is out there on the network, to feel a kinship with all of you, the listeners, to play around with you online and to feel good. There's fun in the word for a reason. MaxFunDrive, beginning March 20th. Make sure your calendar knows it. Let's get back to the show.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict. so the law on this is pretty clear possession as many people wrote in on the on the subreddit and suggesting a name for this case and thank you to all the folks on the maximum fun subreddit who suggested names for the cases quite a few did suggest possession is nine-tenths of the law which is um i think tied with poo print as being gross but poo sticks is still the grossest this is clearly a case of abandoned property i mean joan much like christopher robin in the in the horror movie blood and honey you abandoned winnie the pooh to go to college and forge a new adult life now Now, obviously, you kept a connection with the works of A.A. Milne in particular,

as you mentioned, and a fondness for Winnie the Pooh and a lifelong love of learning and literature and other L words that led you, another L word, to a career in pedagogy. That's a P word, like Pooh. I have no doubt of your love for the

character winning the poo for this print i have doubt you have a memory that you told very very movingly about receiving this print from aunt jane not the nicest person but you left this thing behind for decades and not only that when you saw it in barbara's home and got into some kind of drunken throwdown or whatever it was and got your mom involved and barbara pulled one of the most prince barbara things barbara's ever done which was get an answer from your mom. Like, yeah, it belongs to your sister. And then be like, no. And then bullying your mom into muddying the waters. And you at that point should have gone double nuh-uh to you. You can't do that to my mom. Give me that thing. You could have walked out of there with it.

Easily. You easily could have walked out of there with it easily you easily could have walked out of there with it but you didn't no now i'm not saying that what barbara did was fair but i am saying that you had the opportunity to reclaim it to push your claim even if not that night maybe the next day in a sober state but you left it behind again for more years a child grew up with it in her bedroom this print she grew up with it in her bedroom you lived with it in your bedroom for three years until you could get out of there into your own new bedroom leaving leaving Barbara and it behind. What did you decorate your new bedroom with? Sexy dancers.

Sexy dancers. And quite right. And quite right. And now you come to this court 50 years later and try to get it back. And on top of that, you Snoopy shame, Barbara? Yeah. I fixed Snoopy. I fixed him.

He was dying. And I saved him. I know, Joan. I understand that. You're not Aunt Jane. I'm not Aunt Jane. I'm not Aunt Jane. Thank you.

That's the only verdict I need you're not aunt jane nor are you sister jane you were a good sister who sewed on a new mouth for snoopy but you did insinuate that somehow barbara was it was inappropriate that barbara still had snoopy in her bedroom. No. You were like, tell him. Tell him. No, I was there. No, no, no, no, no.

Don't misdirect me with real estate details, Joan. I was here. I heard what you said. I don't need the playback. This is what you said. You said, tell him. Tell him. I said, what about Snoopy?

And you're like, go ahead. Tell him. Tell him about how much you're like go ahead tell him tell him about how much you love snoopy then and now snoopy is more important to her is my point oh i thought you were just saying you did you know nope that it was a childish affectation to continue to have a love for snoopy oh no no no i think it's it's actually one of her greatest qualities i think it's why she's a children's librarian is because she's never lost that. Yeah.

I will say this. Now that I understand what you were trying to say, and thank you for helping me understand that. You are cuckoo for Snoopy, Barbara. It's true. And poo. Cuckoo for poo and snoo? Yeah. The two?

The two. Ooh. Charlie Brown is better. The two? The two. Ooh. Charlie Brown is better. Charlie Brown is better than Snoopy. We all agree. We all agree. Not everyone. All right thinking Americans.

All the same, you could have kitted out your life with a bunch of Winnie the Pooh stuff. Yes. My mother bought the Snoopy stuff. So if she bought me Winnie the Pooh stuff, that's probably what I would have taken. All right. Here's the thing, though. Joan, you have no legal leg to stand on here.

And yet this court is moved by your telling of the story of Aunt Jane giving you this print. Now, this court remains unconvinced that Anne Jane knew who she was giving the print to, that she necessarily was giving it to you as a gesture of personal connection, but you took it that way, and it was meaningful. If there were a child who had grown connected to this print and still wanted it in their room, there's no way you'd be getting this thing back. No way.

But I'm going to let you have it. Yeah, Barbara, that's right. And the reason is this. I'm going to cry. Barbara, you've gotten to enjoy this thing for almost five decades you believed that it was yours and fair enough it was abandoned by your older sister who abandoned it and you you let it be part of your home and your children's upbringing while it was inappropriate for joan to leave behind childish things at the age of 10,

now it is totally appropriate at the age of redacted that Joan should want to recapture childish things. I believe that the provenance of this print is that Aunt Jane gave it to Joan, but effectively it was shared between the two of you once it was in your shared bedroom. Joan left it behind. Whatever her motive for doing so was, you got to enjoy it solo in that bedroom for however many years you lived there, as an adult solo in your house. And then you got to share it with your children for however many years. And if there were, if there were one of these children who had a deep, deep connection to it that rivaled either yours or Joan's connection to it, that I might feel differently. But Isabella, I'm sorry to say,

Barbara led the way to my verdict, which is I think the humane way to approach this. You've enjoyed it and your family has enjoyed it for decades. If it is meaningful for Joan to have it, why not let her have it? And I think you should. And indeed, that is my order. But my order has another order coming with it. Joan, I don't want to hear about how many additions to the house or how many bedrooms you have and half baths or anything else may i presume you have a bedroom yes you will hang it in your bedroom not where it used to be if you're not willing to hang it in your own bedroom then leave it behind i swear it will it will be done. All right. And then in another 50 years, Barbara gets it back.

This is the sound of a gavel. No bother. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Barbara, how are you feeling? I'm not very happy. This possession of nine-tenths of the law obviously was thrown out of the window.

I actually would have been okay if it went in our childhood bedroom. But now that it's going in her bedroom, which I am not allowed in her bedroom, I am very sad. Wait, wait, wait, wait. I'm sorry. I was listening through the wall of my chambers. You're not allowed in her bedroom? Well, maybe I am, but I don't go there. Well, maybe I am, but I don't go there. Let the record reflect it. Joan shook her head contemptuously as if to say, no.

All right. Then I take it back. Joan, you have to display it in a place where Barbara will see it. It will be done. Your original idea is fine. Then I take it. I will do that. Does that make you feel any better, Barbara? A tad, a tad better, yes.

It's not my job to make people feel good. What am I doing, trying to please people in this world? Baby Barbara strikes again. Joan, how do you feel, triumphant? I feel at peace, actually. I feel as though the world has been righted, that it took 50 years and sometimes the world moves that slowly, but justice has been served. The Tao of poo, so to speak. Indeed. Just wait.

Well, Joan, Barbara, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you. Thank you. Another Judge John Hodgman case is in the books the books in a moment we'll have swift justice first our thanks to redditor bad artist good listener for naming this week's episode join the conversation on the maximum fun reddit that's maximum fun dot reddit dot com always a nice conversation over there at maximum fun always a nice conversation yeah there at MaximumFun. Always a nice conversation. Yeah.

Don't say something rude about the people who are on the show personally. Just have a nice conversation. Usually it's people having a nice conversation. I understand. You can get a little feisty in the chat. I understand that. But, you know, also remember the people who are on this podcast are not public figures. They're nice people who came on to entertain.

They're private people who are letting us into their homes. So if you've got an unkind thing to say, say it to Dorothy Parker, who's sitting next to you at the table. Yeah. Maximumfun.reddit.com. Almost everybody's got a great attitude there. It's really a nice place. That's also where we are asking for these title suggestions these days. So go join the MaxFun Reddit. It's always fun to see everybody's dumb jokes and goofy puns.

It's a delight. Evidence and photos from our show are posted at instagram.com slash Judge John Hodgman. If you're not on Instagram, you can just find them at MaximumFun.org on the Judge John Hodgman page for this episode. Judge John Hodgman was created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman. Our producer is Valerie Moffitt. Now, Swift Justice, where we answer your small disputes with quick judgment. Melissa says, I understand there are different types of kitchen towels, terry, flatweave, flour sack, etc., and that they have different abilities and purposes. My boyfriend thinks bathroom towels are fine to use in the kitchen. Please rule that all towels that are kept in the kitchen drawer should be of the kitchen or dish towel variety only. All right. First of all, boyfriend, wrong. That one's easy.

Wow. That's one of the easy... That is bananas. Look, I'm pro let your dog lick your plate and then put it in the dishwasher. And even I know that it's bonkers to use bathroom towels in the kitchen. To be clear, I'm pro let your dog lick your plate and put it in the dishwasher. I'm just anti let your dog lick your plate and then hand wash it and hand dry it. That's a different story. The other day, my dog tried to steal my pizza and I stole it back and ate it. That's fair.

I didn't care. I was hungry and I had stuff to do. There was only one piece of pizza. Had to do what I had to do. That's absolutely fair. And also something I wish I could have seen happen in person. It was a lot of fun.

But what I'm really interested in is a book by Melissa on kitchen towel types. Maybe not a book, maybe a pamphlet. You know, just like here are the kinds of kitchen, like our children's book. The kitchen towels we use.

Terry, flatweed, flower sack. There's got to be more. Melissa put et cetera there for a reason. Have you ever, John, read the book Home Comforts, the Art and Science of Keeping House by Cheryl Mendelsohn? No, I'm familiar with it, but I have not read it. Oh, it is wonderful. What a wonderful book. It's essentially, in book form, a list of kitchen towel types written so pleasantly and engagingly. Yeah, I can't recommend it enough.

It's $14. I'm looking at it on the internet here. $14. Go buy that wonderful book. full book. Melissa, if you want to, if you want to do a catalog, a very, a quick catalog, the different types of kitchen towels, uh, and, and just a little couple of sentence description of each kind and their usage, uh, and share it with me. I, first of all, I'd love it. Second of all, I would protect your IP. Everyone's IP is safe with me. I'm never going to steal your IP. Uh, but, uh, I'd be very curious to see it and then you know if you

have an illustrator friend have them illustrate it you could probably sell a million of those books melissa that's my advice but meanwhile boyfriend wrong hey one of the things that we're looking for are disputes we need disputes to do the show you may have noticed it's something of the backbone of the show true and you could tell from this episode, disputes about anything are welcome. You may think this dispute's too small or too big or too medium. That's not true. Send them in. Maximumfund.org slash JJHO. Yeah, that's where you send them in. Maximumfund.org slash JJHO. You know what they say in writing rooms? Is this something? You can say that. Is this something? Yeah. You know, i need this we need

the blueprint back from my sister i'm like yeah you're gonna you're gonna win if you send that in you may not realize it but you're gonna win a podcast oscar for that this is i'm i'm self nominating this particular episode for the podcast oscars just i think we're gonna win but sometimes we need specific disputes and this time time we do, we need them about, you guessed it. Cheese. Why? Well,

a little something called the max fund drive is coming up around the corner. Mark your calendars. It's coming up this month in March, starting March the 20th. And I'm not mistaken. Am I mistaken? Jesse?

Not at all. Not in the slightest. I'm on the money when it comes to max Fund Drive. I started on March the 20th. And as you know, every year when we do Max Fund Drive, if we reach a certain benchmark of new and upgrading members of MaximumFund.org, your friend and mine and Jesse's co-podcast host and one of his oldest friends, Jordan Morris, he and I get together and record our annual podcast called Shooting the Breeze. It's not about conversation, though. It is a

fun conversation. I'm talking about shooting the B-R-I-E-S. Jesse Thorne, you came up with this idea some years ago. Tell them about what Shooting the Breeze is all about. It just so happened that my two podcasting partners and close friends of decades, John Hodgman and Jordan Morris, John being the host of this program, Jordan being the host of Jordan, Jesse go, uh, had backgrounds in cheese monging. Um, it's something that they shared in addition to podcasting that really blew my mind. And I thought, well, this sounds like a podcast for whatever reason and uh we've made it

a podcast you guys have made how many shooting the breeze have you made at this point well i believe we we've done it for two years so we've made two episodes yeah and fingers crossed this will be our third year of shooting the breeze when we hit that new and upgrading membership benchmark which you're going to hear about during the max fun drive i have a feeling we're going to make that benchmark because the judge john hodgman listeners they're top podcast listeners so i have a feeling we're going to meet this benchmark so i want to be pre-loaded with some cheese based disputes that jordan and i can adjudicate and talk about, prompts for our discussion.

What's your favorite cheese? What's a bad experience you had with cheese? A turkey, the sheep's milk of the Basque region. I used to call it the king of cheeses. Where in the royal family of cheeses does it stand for you? Jesse, is there a cheese that is a migraine trigger for you? You know, I'm supposed to avoid aged cheeses, but the truth is that

Trader Joe's Thousand Day Gouda is too good to avoid. Too good to avoid. Thousand Day Gouda. I got to get over to Trader Joe's. They're doing some fun stuff over there. Look, I'm not here to buzz market Trader Joe's, but I will say that their cheese selection

is really extraordinary and dramatically better than the regular supermarket. What are your top five ranked Trader Joe's available cheeses? There's a plural. That's how you say cheese plural. Have you been a cheesemonger? Have you worked in cheese?

Have you made cheese? Just let us know, won't you? Maximumfund.org slash JJHO. Send in your disputes about cheese or your opinions about cheese, especially if they're provocative opinions about cheese. Jordan Morris and I will probably talk about it on Shooting the Breeze if we meet that benchmark during the Max Fun Drive, which starts March the 20th. So mark your calendars and get your cheeses ready. And you can interpret cheese in different ways.

What is the best song by Richard Cheese? Oh. What is the best performance by Alison Br cheese oh what is the best performance by allison brie or brie larson yeah who are other people named cheese tell you what you tell me maximumfund.org slash jjho and that is of course as jesse mentioned the place where you should submit all of your disputes whether or not they have to do with cheese. If you've got beef with your brother, your uncle, your sister, your best friend, your former best friend, your spouse even, that's still a thing. Write in maximumfund.org slash JJHL. We need your disputes in order to live. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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