Judge John Hodgman - Knee High Crimes and Misdemeanors

Episode Date: October 9, 2024

Liana brings the case against her boyfriend, Charlie. Charlie can't stand Liana's system for sock storage. She says that she's been storing socks just fine until he came along! Who's right? Who's wrong?We are on TikTok and YouTube! Follow us on both @judgejohnhodgmanpod! Follow us on Instagram @judgejohnhodgman. Or check us out on MaximumFun.org!Thanks to reddit user u/mkbecker for naming this week’s case! To suggest a title for a future episode, keep an eye on the Maximum Fun subreddit at maximumfun.reddit.com! Judge John Hodgman: Road Court is happening NOW! Get your tickets at maximumfun.org/events.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, knee high crimes and misdemeanors. Liana brings the case against her boyfriend, Charlie. Charlie recently moved in with Liana and her three daughters. The adjustment into the household has gone well, except for one thing. Charlie can't stand Liana's system for sock storage.

Liana says she and her daughters have been storing their socks just fine until Charlie came along. She wants Charlie to leave her socks alone. Who's right, who's wrong? Only one can decide, please rise, as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference. The body looks like a skeleton wrapped tightly in hairless skin, skin the brown of a roasted

turkey. It gleams with a glaze of ice that is left undefrosted to protect it. Black lines on its back and ankles appear to be tattoos. Its mouth is frozen in an expression that displays a few worn chipped teeth. This mouth, which is roughly 5,300 years old, is perhaps the most spectacular archaeological pie hole of the late 20th century. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear them in.

Leona and Charlie, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? So help you, God or whatever. I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that we're on the Judge John Hodgman road court tour, he is wearing probably gross cotton socks

instead of cool merino wool socks like me and our engineer, Matthew Barnhart. I do. I do. So they're probably super stinky. Judge Hod our engineer, Matthew Barnhart. I do. I do. So they're probably super stinky. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. How dare you?

Probably, I haven't sniffed them. My, well, you know, maybe we need to make that part of our pre-show ritual. Sock sniff? You will eventually apologize to me. A sniffing circle? That's exactly right. But look, I wear clean socks every day. But you're

absolutely right. The woolen socks, you don't have to change them every day. And probably are more efficient for touring for that reason. We're here to talk about socks. We're here to talk to Charlie and Liana. They're not here to sniff our socks. They're here to answer a simple question. Charlie and Liana, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment. In one of yours favors, can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom? Liana, why don't you go first? I cannot think of an old, old pie hole reference. It's not, I added the word pie hole.

It was a good ad. Yeah, but the rest of it was quoted directly, I'm gonna give you both a hint here, from a 2003 article in Smithsonian Magazine, if that helps. I'm gonna go with it is an archeological article by an archeologist. Oh, would it be in Smithsonian Magazine? Did I give the game away?

From the Smithsonian magazine, the article was in a 2003 edition. I love the way you play, Liana, but I'm gonna say this. One of you's gotta name the thing that this article is about, or else we gotta hear this case. All right, I'm going with wooly mammoth.

Wooly mammoth. We were talking about wool earlier. So I see there's something there. Woolen-sans, wooly mammoth. All right, Charlie, it's your turn to guess. You have 5,300 years to think about this now. So. I think it's an article about a bog man.

It is not an article about a bog man. It is not an article about a bog man. All guesses are wrong though. Neither of you were particularly that wrong. It's an article about an Alps man, not a bog man. The recovered body of the so-called Utsi Iceman found in the Tyrolean Alps. Classic Iceman. Classic Iceman. I've heard of him. Yeah, about

5,300 years ago it is speculated that he got into a little bit of a scrape, a little bit of a tussle. He had a, what do you call it, arrow tip lodged in one of his shoulders blades, was running away, went hiding in the Tyrolean Alps, fell asleep and froze to death. Poor guy. Or something bad happened to him, got into an avalanche. Anyway, perfectly preserved as these things go, so long as you don't mind having skin the color of a roasted turkey. One day he was discovered by a couple of hikers in 1991. Now, why am I talking about this Ootsie Iceman? Well, because I, thinking about socks.

I went back to revisit one of my favorite things I've ever found. And even though I've been to Toronto many times, it's so magical I refuse to see it in person. Much like the Museum of Jurassic Technology, I prefer it as a thing of the imagination than a thing of reality. I can't help but feel I will be underwhelmed or disappointed on some level. Should I visit that magical Museum of Jurassic Technology in Los Angeles? Or if I should visit the Bata Shoe Museum in Toronto,

which has been a museum of shoes for decades now, founded by the daughter-in-law of the founder of the Bata Shoe Empire. And I wondered to myself, the Bata Shoe Museum have an exhibit on socks? Oh, yes, they do. The exhibit, in fact, is called Socks, Socks and More Socks. Where they have on exhibit not only a reconstruction of the Utsi Iceman's shoe, which was found by archaeological reconstructors to be quite comfortable to wear. Why was it comfortable? Because it was stuffed full of grass,

considered to be the first example of a historic sock. Let's go to the case. Who brings this case before me? Who seeks justice here? That would be me. Your boyfriend Charlie doesn't like the way you store socks. What's the system in your house? I have all of our socks, excluding Charlie's, because he was before all this

and he has his own sock situation. He's on a sock boycott of your system. Yeah, mm-hmm, somewhat. But me and the kids, all the socks are in a box, a communal box. The sock box. The sock box next to the shoes in the living room. And then when you need socks, you just grab two random socks.

Cause we all wear the same socks and nobody wears matching socks. Wait, so you're just saying it's- Wear socks! I'm sorry, I will hold for Jesse Thorne's reaction. I did not think this was a weird system. Two random socks? Random.

Yeah, well they're all, I mean, most of them are fairly alike, but these are, I mean, most, they started with the three kids. And so they sometimes would get like random character socks and whatever, and a big, I don't know, fashion thing for the kids in elementary school and kind of, not so much now that they're in high school, but in elementary school, they wore random mismatched socks.

On purpose, you'd wear mismatched socks. So why bother? And so they all go in a box and they wore random mismatched socks. On purpose, you'd wear mismatched socks. So why bother? And so they all go in a box and they just grab random socks. So let me understand. You have three daughters who are now in high school, right? Well, one's in college and two are in high school, yes. Okay, great. Great, they are adults are nearing adulthood.

Yeah. Congratulations, well done. Thank you. You've got a box full of communal socks, because you all more or less wear similar socks. Not that I mean, socks are sized, but I mean, among the four of you, pre Charlie, you all wore similar socks, right? Yeah, same socks. Yeah, same socks. So you just put a bunch of clean socks in there. Doesn't matter whether they match or not.

Doesn't matter. Like, what if they're ankle ankle socks and what if one's an ankle sock and one's a tube sock? No big deal You're wearing pants. It's only if you're wearing I mean, why would you wear socks in the summer? Anyways, may I ask you a question? Have you worn an ankle sock on one foot and a tube sock on the other foot ever in your life for real? Yeah, but I very rarely wear socks. It has to be in the single digits for me to wear socks Yeah, but I very rarely wear socks. It has to be in the single digits for me to wear socks. Jesse, I noticed you're making lip noises in the sound of a slow raspberry. Not a raspberry of disgust,

but a raspberry of maybe exasperation or I don't even know what to say. Tell me what's going through your mind. I think that was the sound of my entire conception of how the world works deflating. Charlie, it sounds like you have an advocate in the person of Bailiff, Jesse Thorne. Tell me why what Liana is doing is all wrong. All right, so she's, yeah, the yellow box full of socks

and like we're talking full of socks. It's fun to say those two words together, right? It was, yeah, that was good. So, you know, a mound of socks. It's fun to say those two words together, right? That was good. So, a mound of socks, they're spilling over into, because you come in the front door, there's a shoe rack and then the sock box. This is in Philadelphia, right? Well, we live in Doylestown, so north of the city. Because a Philadelphia sock box is another thing. We can't talk about it on the podcast. No, no, no.

We'd never. So yeah. And also with four and now five people, there's a lot of shoes. So it's kind of like just a, it's a plateau of socks and shoes and they're getting mixed up. And she didn't mention that they put on their socks,

they go out the door, they come home, they take off their socks immediately upon entering the house. They're not sock people. They take off their socks, and where do they put them? In the sock box. They take off their dirty socks and put them in the sock box.

They put them right in the sock box. And by they, the horrible they you're referring to, is just Liana's three daughters or also Liana? I'm pretty sure it's just the daughters. Liana almost never wears socks, if she can help it. They're, yeah, sock hater. Not the three wonderful young women who have accepted me into their home.

They, is what you mean to say. Is that the words you wanna choose again? They. Yes. Just go full those people. Does your oldest daughter live at home? Yes. Just go full those people. Does your oldest daughter live at home? She did. She just moved out.

Well, she moved to college. She's still living at home, but she's living at college right now. She moved out in August. Is she nearby or is she- She's like an hour away. So she has her own stock situation now until she's home for the summer.

Okay. How long ago, Charlie, did you and Liana start dating? And how long ago did you move in? I've been dating almost three years and I moved in, I'm going to say a year ago. Two years ago. Okay. So you moved in about two years ago seems to be the consensus, right? Yes. All right, let's take a look at the sock box. You sent in some photos. Who sent in the photos, if I may ask? Me. Leona. Okay, exhibit A, the sock box before Charlie moved in. And this photo will obviously be available on our show page at MaxPenFund.org, as well as on our Instagram account, at Judge John Hodgman on Instagram.org, as well as on our Instagram account,

at Judge John Hodgman on Instagram. Oh, do I ever plead for you to follow us there and like, share, subscribe, et cetera, et cetera. Social media is how people discover the show now. Now that that's all that's left of culture. Anyway, sorry about that, Leanna. This place, this looks like a mess. Sorry about it.

Well, yeah, this is like, I tried to find a very like candid shot. Like I was taking a picture of my kid. So this is just like a random day, how we would live if people weren't coming over. Well, credit to you for not trying to stage a sock box. Yeah. Yeah, you could have had, it's true, Charlie.

She could have put up a real glamor photo of the sock box in perfect order. But what I see here, I know that when John, when I was looking at houses to buy a few years ago here in Los Angeles, a lot of them had like a really perfectly staged, almost manicured sock box in the living room.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You want to sell that. If you want to move real estate, you got to stage a sock box. Yeah. Nice. But this is what I see. I see like a green, a smaller bin than I imagined. And I really do think that this is a bin more than a box.

At least it's not a cardboard box. It specifically is a bin that looks like it fits into a modular piece of furniture that is not present. Yeah, exactly. Oh yeah, I threw away the furniture, kept the bins because it's a nice bin, you know. Two years ago, you know? Two years ago you moved in there, you're like, that's gotta go.

Nice bin though. No, but we'll keep the bin. It was in the basement. Where can I put my unsightly milk crate? And my wrapped 12 pack of bottled waters. The other things that I see in here. Are those your possessions, Charlie? Or are they also part of the general decorative scheme of Liana and daughters? That was there when I got there.

Yeah, that was there when you got there. That was the shoe crate before Charlie built us a shoe rack. We had a milk crate for shoes and a bin for socks, which sounds weirder out loud. And then waters, yeah. PAUL And then waters. I mean, look, at that time, before Charlie moved in, had you been living by yourself for a period of time? I mean, by yourself as the only adult in the house? JADE Yeah. And three kids who are in and out all the time. Yeah, I mean, we're all doing the best we can. Can I ask, is this setup, you said it's in the living room,

is it proximate to the front door? And I mean, I wanna be clear, I'm asking this as a, I've received many emails informing me that I'm a horrific monster, uh, because I typically wear shoes in the house, um, but is this by the front door? Cause I noticed that there is, uh, white or off white carpeting. Yeah. It's directly to the left of the door.

Yeah. Right when you walk in right there on the left. It's wall to wall carpetto-wall carpeting which it's very little carpeting. It's not look. It's not my choice, but we're all doing the best we can At the time you developed the sock bin and shoe crate system You had three children who were even younger than they are now. I Think you did a good job But then we have the after photo now Honestly, who sent in this photo? Was it you, Charlie, or Liana?

That's also Liana. Okay, so tell me what I'm seeing here because I'm now seeing a closeup. It seems a little bit neater, but it's so close up I can't really tell what's changed. So explain to me what's happened between then and now. So to compromise, I have the sock box inside of like, it's one of those like storage Ottoman things that you get at Costco.

Yep. And so it's hidden. So sock box is now hidden inside a larger box that has a lid. Boxes within boxes. Yes. And next to the nice pile of socks and there's some mushroom socks and they look like cozy socks. Oh yeah.

Socks with mushrooms on them, socks with some blue flowers on them. Yeah, you asserted that these socks were all about the same. These are almost all colored and patterned socks, and they're very different thicknesses. Yeah. Like it would be hard to pick

a more heterogeneous group of socks. Yeah, Liana, I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but you got some motley socks. There's probably some support hose in here. I don't know. There's some basketball compression socks. Yeah. It's just a bunch.

Oh, and now they're in a yellow bin. I've just made this out. There's some stirrups and sanitary socks in here. Cause you're a baseball player from the 1940s. There's so much sock stimuli coming at me with that. I almost couldn't, my brain couldn't parse this top down photo that they are in a yellow bin. So that's a bin update as well.

I don't remember if it was the same bin or not. We had like a couple of these bins in different colors that used to be like a toy box kind of thing. Right, until Charlie got rid of all the toys. Charlie moved in, he needed. We don't need any more toys in here. Time to grow up and move out kids. Charlie's here.

You can keep these bins for your socks though. They're your toys now. What's the case that's next to the sock bin inside the hideaway Ottoman? The one that definitely looks like it's a book of CDs. Oh, no, no, no, no. That's one of the kids' binders for school. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Five-star brand. Yes, yes, yes. Oh, I wish it had CDs.

I wish it was CDs too. I could really listen to Jagged Little Pill right now. Oh, yeah. My youngest one is into the 90s music, so hardcore. It's great. Just to clear it up right away, you ought to know it's not ironic. Moving on. Liana, how did your original system come to be?

What was its genesis? Well, we have three kids, and even from when they were like little and started wearing socks, like they're two years apart, so they all vaguely wore the same socks. And I wasn't gonna, everybody's laundry is done at the same time. And you kind of sort the laundry amongst the three of them, even though they start sharing stuff at a weird point in their lives. And I wasn't gonna sort socks. that's crazy. And then I'd have to buy so many socks and they're always losing socks.

And then the socks are everywhere. So I just find socks, I wash them, they go in the bin. And then as we're on our way out the door and we're going, we gotta go, we gotta go, we gotta go, we're late, they just grab socks. They just grab socks. Yeah. Now there seems to have been an upgrade since then,

since you moved in, Charlie, the bin is no longer green. It's now yellow. So that's a plus. Unless you're a green lantern. That's a comic book thing. It's now inside a hideaway ottoman next to some school supplies. Is this acceptable to you or is this still unacceptable to you? I mean, this was like last like I feel like you did this for the podcast.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Because I don't think you've given much thought to the system. Is that true? Is that true? Did you game the system for the podcast? I mean, like it is this. The podcast did make us talk a little bit more about the socks. And this was like, well, we have this new storage ottoman. I can hide the sock box.

Well, I mean, that seems to be a potential solution, Charlie. Why isn't it? Why is Leona still wrong? She's still wrong because... I mean, they're not folded and that's fine. Um. He didn't know that. They're not paired or anything, you know what I mean?

Okay. I don't know if the microphones picked up that audible shutter that Charlie just let loose. That's fine. Um, but it's the inclusion of the dirty socks going back in. And then there's sometimes there is a smell associated with it. I mean, you know, so I mean, the new box might contain that. When you come home, what's the first thing you do?

Open up the ottoman, stick your face in the sock box and give it a sniff purity test? No, I take my shoes off. All right, but not my socks. Well, right. We're going to talk about your separate sock system in a moment here. But Liana, is it or is it not true? The dirty socks are going into the sock box. It, it does have, since it's been in the box within the box, it has not happened.

But that is again, it's very, very recent. It hasn't been fully tested yet. But when the sock box was just next to the shoes, then yes, a lot of times the kids would come in, they take off their shoes, they took off their socks, and things can get mixed. And sometimes you'd have to sniff the sock before you put on the sock. Yeah, I know. That's why when I'm on tour with Jesse, I always have to knock on his hotel room to have him sniff my socks before I put them on. Yeah. You can't smell your own.

Okay. Quick check in. So had you ever had over the two years that Charlie was living there in total disgust and before the hideaway Ottoman came into your lives, did you ever tell the kids, please put your dirty socks somewhere else? Yeah, theoretically, they're supposed to put their socks

downstairs, like in the basement, like there's a landing area, they're supposed to put them there, and then they get washed when we do laundry. So you have a basement and the laundry's in the basement? Yes. And there's no hamper anywhere else in the house? I mean, there's hampers, but like-

In their bedroom, but- Yeah, you're gonna go upstairs and take your socks off? Why is that less reasonable than going to the basement and take your socks off? Can't imagine a place I'd least like to take my socks off. Yeah, I can't imagine a place I'd least like to have bare feet. Well, you don't go into the basement,

you just take them off and you throw them down the stairs. Oh, well, that's a game. That's fun. Yeah. Then you dump your marbles. Right. And ball bearings. Where's the basement door in relation to the front door? Maybe like seven feet from it.

Maybe too far to walk. Seven steps. Yeah, it's not far. It's not a big house. Yeah, it's in between the living room where the sock drawer is and the kitchen. How did it come to be that this practice of returning dirty socks to the clean sock bin began? Do you have kids, Jesse? I have three kids, yes.

Do they put all their things away when you tell them to all the time? Have you been in their room lately? They don't like use a tissue and then put it back in the tissue box. They might leave it on a side table. You know what I mean? Well, I mean, that's like the socks. Like a lot of times they're not in the sock box. Like they're just kind of spread out throughout the living room and then somehow people just move them. To be fair, two of my three children are real Lianas who refuse to wear socks under any circumstances.

Well, and this was what came up when I talked to the girls about this. And I was like, hey, can you not put your socks directly in the box when you get home? And they were like, why would- Well, I bet they were thrilled to have that conversation. Yeah, well- Their mother's new living room.

You're not my real dad! Oh, there's a bit of that. Sock fascist! This is why I listen to Rage Against the Machine. Their perspective was why on earth would I not do this? So Charlie, let's turn to your system then. What do you do with your socks and what should we all do with our socks?

Yeah, so I walk in the door, shoes come off, the socks will stay on and then I usually keep them on while I, you know, putter around after work, go in the kitchen. You know, I don't really like that feeling of bare feet on like tile because every little molecule, you know, you feel we have cats. So sometimes there's like cat litter on the ground. How many cats do you have? Two, two cats, fish and disco. Fish and disco. Good names for cats. Whose cats do you have? Two, two cats, Fish and Disco. Fish and Disco, good names for cats.

Whose cats were they originally? They were. Well, Fish was there already. Yeah. You never saw Fish for the first six months. Yep. And then we got Disco when you moved in. Yeah.

Okay, so all right. So Disco was adopted by the two of you. All right, got it. And do either of them ever carry socks from room to room in their mouths? And do you have video of it that you can send me immediately? The dog occasionally will pick up a stray sock and, you know, worry it. We have various toys for that, but she loves a sock. Did I ask you if the dog carries socks around? Right? I'm sorry, things around all the time. Not looking for cats carrying things around in their mouths from room to room.

They can't just be worrying it or playing with it. They've got to be moving it around with purpose. I'm sorry to get upset about this, Charlie, but you misunderstand what I'm asking for here. Cats carrying socks from room to room. Yes or no. Don't wait for the translation. Yes or no.

No. No. Okay. Thank you, Charlie. I appreciate it. All right, wait a minute. So you come in, leave't wait for the translation. Yes or no. No. No. Okay. Thank you, Charlie. I appreciate it. All right. Wait a minute. So you come in, leave your socks on because you don't want to walk around on pat dander and stray litter, of course. Sure. And when you do finally take your socks off, when is that in your routine?

Usually later on in the evening, I usually, uh, you know, when I go upstairs to change into my, uh, you know, relaxing home attire, soft clothes, soft clothes, as Paul and Janie had Ed Tompkins would say. Mm hmm. Yep. I changed my soft clothes, put the socks in the hamper. Such a liar. Oh, you have been accused of lying.

Tell me the truth, Liana. This happens, this happens sometimes. And yet when I was perhaps somewhat staging the updated photo of the sock box within a bigger box, I had to clean up a little bit around it because I wasn't sure to take a wide angle or small shot. And so I was cleaning up around it. There were quite a few socks I had to pick up

and the majority of them, I believe were yours, sir Charlie. What I meant to say is that I do occasionally take my socks off and put them on the ground wherever I am. Wherever you are, which could be near the clean sock bin or anywhere. Well, strangely enough, I never throw them towards the sock bin.

I usually, they'll be, you know, under the coffee table in front of the couch or sometimes under the kitchen table. And so then I gather up all the socks and I wash all the socks and then all the socks that I have washed go into the sock box. And then eventually somebody is like,

I have no socks. And I'm like, look in the sock box. Including Charlie's discarded under coffee table socks? Oh yeah. Yep, she'll throw them in there. Well, why wouldn't she? You failed to put them away. You're not wrong.

You want to get rid of the sock box altogether, Charlie? What's going on? Yeah, I would like a sock box less life. Even though you have benefited from it. Yeah, I would take that hit. I mean, you have, you have, because what happens to the socks that you strangely discard underneath the coffee table?

You're right. Unless Leona comes and cleans them up for you. I mean, I do occasionally, I clean my own socks too. I'll go, I'll do a run. Yes, you do, you do. On laundry day, I'll go and gather my socks. Because I don't know what's clean and what's dirty over there.

I can't, I couldn't be. You just wash them up. That's true, Charlie. I mean, it seems like you're giving yourself extra work by, dare I say, segregating your socks and punishing the socks that don't belong specifically to your feet. You could just wash all the socks that don't belong specifically to your feet. You could just wash all the socks and then you could fold them up and put them away.

You could be getting rid of the sock box yourself simply by making this your chore rather than taking or being taken to the internet court. How do you respond? I don't, I don't want to. Once again, I appreciate your honesty. Well played, Charlie. Well played. I do acknowledge your honesty there. Leanna, have you ever considered matching socks? No, no, uh-uh, why?

No, the only time I do that is if I'm doing like Charlie and my laundry and like his are so easy cause they're like the same socks. So I'll do his sometimes if I'm doing like Charlie and my laundry and like his are so easy cause they're like the same socks. So I'll do his sometimes if I have time, but I honestly, what is it? Who's seeing your socks? Who cares? Okay.

First of all, everyone sees your socks. Your socks definitely show. Pants don't naturally, don't magically extend when you bend your knee. They lift and show your socks. So I'm gonna dismiss that line of argument. It's absurd and you know that. Don't try and fool me.

What I mean is not pairing the socks that you already have, but what if you went to or ordered online actual matching socks? So let's call them Navy blue socks, right? The classic simplest sock to wear. Or if we're talking about athletic socks, just white tube socks. And that way the socks would always match and be ready. You wouldn't have to pair them. You could just keep them in a bin

and also probably do something about the gross dirty ones. But let's leave that apart aside. But that'd be so sad. You wouldn't get to wear like the cool like Teenage Mutant Ninja socks. Or what about the Totoro socks? Or sometimes you want fuzzy socks. Or sometimes you want a crossover event.

Exactly, right? Yes. Like if we have to wear socks, they should be fun socks. Do the other members of your family resent socks as much as you do, Leanna? I don't know. I think I might've raised them too. They're not fans.

They might've erupted. I mean, my middle daughter has kind of taken to trying to segregate her own socks. Like she does her own laundry now. And she has insisted I buy her her own socks, which are very boring and plain and easy to match, even though again, hers still end up various places and then washed and put into the communal sock box because I'm not

separating them. So let me ask you in the light of that, I mean, if the sock box system were perfected, right? And there were no dirty socks going in there. And they were only ever clean socks for the kids and your beloved Liana to grab and mix and match however they like. But there were no dirty socks going in there. There were no socks outside of the sock box. And meanwhile, you were policing your own socks and they were in a completely different sock ecosystem. If it's a completely separate system, if the streams never cross and the sock box is working the way it's designed to work by only housing clean socks and all the dirty socks go into the into the basement

or whatever, and you never have to touch them or think of them or see them. Is it still going to bother you that there is this sock box? Are you as upset about this as Jesse Thorne is? So if I would be fine with the sock box existing under those conditions, it's really like the dirty socks kind of, you know, like a bad apple spoils the bunch. It's just now you have less than 100% clean socks, which is, I don't know how to deal with that. And even if that ottoman is closed,

you know that there's one adulterant sock in there at least. Oh yeah. And it haunts you all day long? Mm-hmm. Let me see. It's important for Liana to focus on stanking up the shoes directly without the intermediary force through the socks. Leanna to focus on stanking up the shoes directly without the intermediary force through the socks. Yeah.

I'm not like running. You mentioned Leanna that, I believe it's your middle daughter who is now asking you to buy matching socks for her, right? Yes, yeah. She has her own specific socks now that she washes and puts in her drawer. But she's doing it on her own. Yeah.

Oh yeah. Which I'm fine with. I mean, you're taking care of it. She's developing her own system. She is. And she's doing that like with her money from her afterschool job. Like she's delivering newspapers so she can finally have her own socks. Yeah.

No, I mean, I bought her the socks. I will buy them socks. That's just, we have so many socks. I know, but how do you feel knowing that this middle daughter is rejecting the sock box and by extension you? She is the middle daughter, so I expect it. Is the older daughter got a sock box in her dorm room

or wherever she's staying? I fully expect that they are wadded up underneath her bed. Yeah, probably. And does the younger daughter resent the middle daughter for having socks that match? I don't think she, I think the youngest daughter usually wears the mismatching socks. I feel like she's the biggest proponent of that.

Yeah. Yeah, she's very free and easy with sock shoes. Yeah. How does the middle daughter feel about you throwing her clean socks into the sock box if she doesn't put them away herself? Oh, she gets annoyed by it when she finds them in there. And then I go, well, how do you think they got there? And then she just walks away. Charlie, Liana and her daughters have lived with the system for years.

You're not being forced to participate. Um, and you're in a delicate position as a relatively new member of this household. Why are you making this a conflict? What does it mean to you? It just seems like, like chaos in a way. Like I would like some order to the Sox. Like some kind of inner logic to how they're placed because it just seems like madness. Liana, how big of a home is this?

It's not very big. It's a town home with a basement and two stories. Charlie, I mean, you're in a world that is dominated by four people who have lived there for a long time and share what is arguably a very close bond. Mother and daughter, do you feel like there is nothing in this house that you can control? No, no, I do not.

I don't feel that way. It's weird, because there isn't anything you can control in this house. I don't feel weird because there isn't anything you can do. And that's why you don't feel that way. You're very right about that. Yeah, maybe I just would like a little bit of control about this, you know, this little area. How how have you expressed your frustration with the sockbox system before coming on this

podcast? I would I would bring it up to them. Uh, did you hold a big family meeting? You turn your chair around and sit down and get them all to sit in front of you and say, all right, Charlie's here. There's going to be some new rules. No, you know, they would come home, tear their socks off, throw them in the bin. And I would say, Hey, could you guys like put them in the basement or upstairs and they would say no.

And that was pretty much it. Yeah, I didn't, I couldn't really push too much. My position is delicate as you said. How, what's the mood like in the house? How does, how your daughters feel about Charlie living there? If I may be so blunt, Leanna. They love Charlie. It was, there was an adjustment period of me being at work.

Why? I can't imagine why. Right, getting phone calls of Charlie said that I should do the dishes and he's mad because I didn't do the dishes. I was like, well, I mean, he's allowed to ask you to do adult things, that's all right. But I think like they've come around to it and it seems fine. The middle one took about a good nine months. to do adult things, that's all right. But I think like they've come around to it

and it seems fine, but they- The middle one took about a good nine months of like solidly bullying me, but she's, I think I won her over. How would she bully you? I wanna know. She was just like, she was very, she was mean, you know, in the way that like 15 year old girls

can be mean, like that. How is it that you came to move in? Liana did, did, did your daughter say, please mom, we want a weird dad, the weirdest possible. I mean, in kinda, uh, I mean, that was their qualification for any guy I brought into the house. Um, no, I mean, he was living in Philly and that's like kind of far. And then his was going to be up and he was already over a lot of the time.

How did you meet? I thought he was breaking into a dog store. Yeah. So we worked. Wait, wait, say that sentence again. I don't want to, not for the edit. I just want to hear it again. I thought he was breaking into a dog store.

And so I called the store. Breaking into a dog store. So I called the store. Go on. All right, I'm listening. You want to start it off? So we worked across the street from each other in a shopping center. And I worked at a pet store that specialized in dogs

and sometimes like at eight at night they would have. Also known as a dog store. Yeah. Well, it's not a pet store, it's just the, but okay. I understand. Okay, so you've already eliminated one of the two of you. So if Liana, you didn't work at Hot Dog on a Stick, I'm gonna be really bummed.

If two people fall in love across the street from each other in a shopping center, one of them's gotta work at Hot Dog on a Stick. And they did have wiener dogs at their dog store. That's true. Yeah. And so there's late nights where there would be a dog, like a class going on with a trainer,

and I would just be minding the register and not really doing anything. So I started to bring my guitar and I would go outside where there was no one out because most of the stores were closed and I would just play my guitar by the front door and then... Yeah. So Charlie's out there doing his dog store busking and you notice him how, Leon? We were closing and there were no customers in because we thought we were the only store open that late. And there were, it was like- And also the internet.

Yeah, yeah. It's Monday night and it was dead. And my friend who was closing with me was like, there's a man standing outside the dog store playing guitar. And we were very confused because we were like, this is the worst place in time to be busking. Like there's no people, there's no traffic.

And we were bored. So we opened the door and we sat on the bench outside our store and listened to him play and then clapped for him. And then he went inside the dog store, which we thought was closed. So we were like, did that man just break into the dog store? Right.

This is the weirdest, he plays a song and then breaks in. The weirdest. There's an itinerant troubadour who is living in the dog store and occasionally coming out to play, what song did he play, do you remember? I have a little video clip, but no, it was a country song. Yeah, I think it was probably like

a Lefty Frizzell song or something. Yeah, we're going to need that video clip right away to put on our social media. Okay, I will send that along. This meat cute is going to get blown up. That's incredible story. Because we didn't think anybody would believe us that this was happening.

And then we were like, well, we better save this for the police possibly. Right, right. Yeah. I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision. I'm gonna go in my chambers. I'll be back in a moment. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Liana, how are you feeling about your chances right now? I feel like I've made a compelling case. I think that busy working moms everywhere with lots of kids who are slightly messy will understand. The Trump card. The Trump card is being played. It's being played. It's thrown down. Think about these busy single mothers. What about our firefighters and teachers? Do it for the children.

Charlie, how do you feel? I'm kind of 50-50, because I know it can kind of go either way with weird dads and their weird disease, you know? But I think I've made some good points. I think the central tenant is strong, you know? And I'm open to compromise. We'll see what Judge Hodgeman has to say about all this when we come back in just a moment.

Well, Judge Hodgman, I have to say, we had a pretty awesome time in the Midwest on the road court tour. Baby kangaroos. Can we talk about baby kangaroos for a second? Okay, so we went to a petting zoo in a mall outside of St. Paul, Minnesota. That's right.

This is a petting zoo recommended by many listeners of Judge John Hodgman to me. We had to carve out a special block of time in our travel schedule to make it there. It was pretty tricky. We had to like get up early on a day when we went to bed at one special block of time in our travel schedule to make it there. It was pretty tricky. We had to like get up early on a day when we went to bed at one o'clock in the morning in order to make it there in time

and then make it to the theater in time. It could not have been more worth it. You'll have to follow our social media feeds to find out all the different animals that I petted there. But let's just say that one of them was the world's largest rodent. I had left my phone number at this place just because I was like,

if anybody wants free tickets to the show tonight, I had such a great time. I'm glad to give anybody, the people there were so sweet. Anybody who wants free tickets, you're welcome. Yeah, terrific people over there. It's sustainable safari in St. Paul. I get a text.

I look at my phone, it says, hi, this is Melissa. I coordinate the healthcare at Sustainable Safari, where you were earlier today. I have some baby kangaroos living at my house. Would you like me to bring them by? I was like, I'm like, tonight? Question mark, question mark, question mark, question mark. So I was like, I mean, yes, I don't mean to speak for everyone else and the theater, but yes,

yes, definitely yes. We checked in with the people at the Fitzgerald. They said, as long as someone is with them all the time, as long as they're not loose. Yeah. They gave the kangaroos their own dressing room. Thank you to the Fitzgerald Theatre in St. Paul for this as well. They checked in with their house dog, Vienna the dog. That's right.

One of the cutest dogs on Instagram, Vienna dog, at Vienna dog. The sweetest dog in the world. Everybody was okay with it. So we brought those baby kangaroos on stage with us in St. Paul. Oh my gosh. And we got to hold them.

Probably the highlight of my tour, indeed perhaps the highlight of my touring life with Judge John Hodgman, was the moment when they placed the little, like the little papoose of baby kangaroo into our producer, Jennifer Marmor's arms. Jennifer had by that point been away from her own baby for roughly a week.

And I just saw her turn into a mother so hard and fast. Just the, her eyes basically turned into hearts that were extending in and out. She immediately started like rocking it and cooing to it. It was one of the best things I've ever seen in my life. We also petted them and they're very soft. Kangaroos are soft. And you're right, Jesse, there is video evidence

of all of this heart-melting cuteness across all of our social medias. Judge John Hodgman on Instagram and on our YouTube channel as well. Go check it out. Now, we can't promise baby kangaroos at all of our upcoming tour stops, but I can promise you. Although, if you have baby kangaroos, get at us.

Yeah. Oh, of course. Yeah. If you've got baby kangaroos, for sure. But I can promise you lots and lots of surprises because every show is different. At every show, we have new local litigants and a whole new improv storyline emerges that we never saw coming. And if you have baby kangaroos, bring them. We're going next to Burlington, Vermont, then Portland, Maine, then two homecomings for me. I'm going back to the Pioneer Valley of Western Massachusetts to meet our friend Monte Belmonte on stage at the Shea Theater in Turner's Falls.

And then our big sold-out show in Brookline, Massachusetts at the Coolidge, followed early next year by our shows in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada, Seattle, Washington, Portland, Oregon, soon-to-be announced show at the San Francisco SketchFest, and wrapping up, finally, the road court ends in Los Angeles at Dynasty typewriter. All those shows have tickets available for you now at maximumfund.org slash events. And remember that Los Angeles show also features a comedy podcast called Jordan Jesse go that I've heard is pretty good. Who knows what you'll see. And by the way, if there's someone in your life who's never listened to the podcast before, this is a great way to introduce them to it. Everyone goes home having a good time.

And if you want to get into that sold out show in Brookline, go to maximumfund.org slash JJ HO and give us a Brookline based dispute for us to adjudicate. We might hear it on stage and we might be able to sneak you in the back door. We do need your disputes for all of these shows. Maximumfund.org slash disputes. If we pick your case to be adjudicated on stage, we will meet you and greet you and be grateful forever after. So remember those links, maximumfun.org slash events

or tickets and maximumfun.org slash JJHO for all of your cases. Let's get back to the case. Please rise as judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict. Okay, so first of all, I want to say congratulations to you both, both for being adorable and meeting in a very adorable way and for blending a household successfully, which is not something that I've had to do, but I can only guess at the amount of complications, both external and emotional, that are involved in that.

And it does seem that with the exception of this one box of dirt, you've organized a household that seems to be functioning where everyone feels heard and seen and appreciated. I mean, you know, what you're asking is a challenging thing here, Charlie, because you are entering a world that is not your own, initially. I mean, you've been there for two years, but even though everyone loves Charlie, that's what I hear anyway, you know, like, we start laying down the law in an established household where you are the outsider is some people could do it a lot less delicately than you did.

And some people can be real jerks or whatever about it, putting a strain on the family. That doesn't sound like that has happened here. That said, what has happened here is that you have discovered something that perhaps you didn't know about yourself, which is that you are tidy. You said, I didn't think I was being particularly precious about these things. I didn't think that that would describe me before I, and this is a direct quote from you, before I moved into this Doylestown townhome dirtier than the dog store I used to live in. I used to live with dogs, but nothing prepared me for the feral lifestyle of Liana and her three

daughters. That's a direct quote from you, Charlie. I don't know if you remember saying that, but we can play it back if you want. But I mean to say only, obviously you didn't say that, but it's like, you know, like when you live alone or when you live an entwined and entangled life with a partner for a long time, you develop your own sense of what's tidy, what's messy, and what's not. And that can be very different to someone who just enters your home all of a sudden. And they say, Oh, you know what, it smells like cat pee in here. You remember how we're talking about how we have a cat and it is my constant terror

that people can smell this cat's pee and we can't. Do you know what I mean? That is a true fear that I have because I know as an only child who then entered into a life with another person very happily more than 25 years ago, that you don't know what you smell like until you live with another person. And sometimes you smell like cat pee, and you gotta make an adjustment in your life,

and sometimes you realize that the other person smells like cat pee, or shall I say has a different standard of clutter than you do. And I'm going to say that, Liana, I'm breaking with my own bail of fear and agreeing strongly with you. No one's looking at your socks. No one cares if your socks are mismatched. Very few people now. This isn't to say that it's not a principle worth upholding. But I would argue that if your socks match,

that's because you want them to because it makes you feel good. I would not feel good walking around with one Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles tube sock on my left calf, shapely calf, I might say, and a Roblox ankle high on my right. I would feel bad about myself. I would feel uncomfortable. I would feel it.

But I agree, only a few people would really notice, especially if you're a child. Actually, I take it back. In fact, children are more likely to be judged for their wardrobe choices than adults Because children are at least socks that is because children are often Wearing shorter pants longer into their lives than adults do and So people do see those socks and people will look at those mismatched socks and they won't judge the children. They'll judge Unfortunately the mother most of the time, or the parent in general. But for adults, no one cares. No one's thinking about you the way you think you're thinking about you.

Unless it's Charlie and he's just moved in and he's seeing things a different way. All of which is to say that I think that your sock box solution as a system in theory is absolutely fine. I think it's a good idea or a good streamlining for your laundry situation. Have clean socks available for going out, especially if your kids don't like to wear socks in the house. And that it's fine for them to be mismatched because honestly, who should care? And if people are looking at your kids, you're saying it's a trend in their school. So they look cool there.

But if there are adults in the world who are looking at those mismatched socks, doing like, I don't think their parent is doing a good job, then they can go. Then they can go suck a soiled sock. Yes. Thank you. Then they can go suck a soiled sock. Thank you very much, Bailiff Jessie. Because what you're doing is you're providing clean socks for your kids.

They know they're cared for and it's a system that works until it doesn't. Now you have to admit that the system has not been working. If dirty socks are going into the clean sock bin, here I must side with Charlie. The system that works in theory that doesn't work in practice needs to be fixed. So again, I think in theory the sock box works. In practice, however, you must acknowledge, we all must acknowledge, that it doesn't. Charlie and you are now melding lives, have been for two years. And it's important to respect each other's standards and patterns of cleanliness and tidiness to different things.

It's also important to keep your mind open to when someone says there might be a better way. And in this case, I do think that your sockbox idea, good as it is, has not yet been perfected. And your own kids are figuring that out too, because your middle daughter already is like, you know what, I'm getting to be a grown-up now, I would like to wear my own matching socks. And your own middle daughter, though not a 100% every time practitioner of this, understands that if there's a better way for her, she's got to be responsible for it.

And she has to do her own laundry, and if she doesn't, it goes into the box. Also very good. But the fact that dirty socks are going back into the clean sock box, that means the project is not working. And I would say that there is a very simple solution. Obviously the idea of putting a dirty sock bin next to the clean sock bin. It's intriguing. You could give it a try.

I bet you it wouldn't work because it's too close. Once you know, socks get thrown and also socks move on their own. We all know this. We've all lost socks in the dryer. Where are they going? I would say one solution is, I mean, seven, seven steps to the basement door doesn't feel like a long way when you're coming in the door, but there, but if you're coming into the door and you want them to take their socks off, it's got to're coming in the door. But there, but if you're coming in the door

and you want them to take their socks off, it's got to be right by the door. Even closer than the clean sock box. Maybe set up a little place to sit down, take off your shoes, put your shoes on the shoe tree that Charlie created, and Charlie, why don't you build a dirty sock box in there? Not in the same ottoman. Everyone knows that socks mixed in the same ottoman never stay apart. That's a saying. But there's an even simpler solution, and one that I would encourage, nay, order that you undertake in your house. Charlie, I appreciate that on an intuitive level the chaos in the sock box upsets you, in the same way that it upsets Jesse Thorne and me,

though to a much lesser degree. And I would say that there's such a simple way for you to resolve this issue in your home and live up to the incredibly charming dog store busker that you started out as, a superhero, if you will. A romantic comedy lead. Just, just you take care of the socks, dude. Just make socks your thing.

Make socks your thing. Grab them, clean them. Fold yours, sock box the others. Or take, uh, take orders. You fold your own socks and put them away however you like it. The little ones, clean socks go in the sock box. And perhaps you even go so far as to separate, wash, fold, and present back to Liana's middle daughter,

her clean, paired, navy blue, or whatever matching socks they are. And then you're not on a podcast. You're in the not quite stepdad hall of fame, which is a better place to be than a podcast, let me tell you. So my order is, and I'm not sure who's who's winning this one or not, because I can't do all the math, because my brain doesn't work that way anymore. But I love the sock box. But Charlie, if it's broken, you got to make it work. This is the sound of a gavel. But sock.

Judge John Hodgman rules that is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Charlie, how are you feeling? Well, I feel like I got some spiritual victory, but I'm gonna, I just kinda end, now I gotta do the laundry. I feel like I lost. Don't worry, laundry is one of the easiest

and most satisfying of chores. Liana, how are you feeling? I feel very good. I think he made very good points. I feel vindicated somewhat. And I'm very excited for you to become like Zen with the socks. I will do my best. Thank you guys. You're a joy.

Thank you. Another Judge John Hodgman case is in the books. Before we dispense some swift justice, our thanks to Redditor MK Becker for naming this week's episode, knee-high crimes and misdemeanors. Join the conversation over on the Maximum Fun sub-Reddit, that is maximumfun.reddit.com

if you wanna name a future episode or just see all the great ideas that people post or chat about this week's episode. if you want to name a future episode or just see all the great ideas that people post or Chat about this week's episode. There's always a good chat about every episode Evidence and photos from the show are on our Instagram account. That's at judge John Hodgman. Follow us there You can also find them on the web page for this week's episode You can find us on tik-tok and YouTube at judge Johngman Pod, where in addition to content from the show, there's all kinds of cool other stuff as well. Please share a clip from the Judge John Hodgman podcast

on TikTok or on Instagram. We really appreciate when you tell somebody about the show. It's not just that we like it, it really helps people discover the show. And that's, it's not just that we like it, it really helps people to discover the show. And that's not an easy thing to do these days. It's all that's left that helps people discover the show. So please tell somebody, share something. John, we have an Apple Podcasts rating here.

That is absolutely right, Jesse. And we say thank you to Atomic Adams, who left these kind words for us over on Apple Podcasts, plus a five-star rating. Thank you very much. Atomic Adams writes, hands down, my favorite American comedy podcast, exclamation point. Atomic Adams also says they love the community

that is built up amongst the commenters on YouTube and Instagram. And it's a lot of fun. It's the, you know what? The comments are not toxic. They's a lot of fun. It's the comments. You know what the comments are not toxic. They're a lot of fun. I drop in there all the time. It is fun. We also have by the way, not just on Apple podcasts, but also these days on Pocket Casts, which is a

platform that a lot of our listeners use, you can leave ratings for podcasts. And that is a big new deal. And we would be very grateful to you if you left a review for Judge John Hodge is a big new deal. And we would be very grateful to you if you left a review for Judge John Hodgman on Pocket Casts. And if you're listening on Spotify, you can leave a comment on individual episodes now. And that also helps people discover the show. But you know what also helps people discover the show?

Talking about it, tell a friend today about the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Makes a big difference to us. Judge John Hodgman created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman podcast. Makes a big difference to us. Judge John Hodgman created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman, this episode engineered by Jay Powell at Philly Podcast Space in Philadelphia. Our social media manager is Natty Lopez, the editor, A.J. McKeon, our video editor, Daniel Spear,

our producer is Jennifer Marmer. All right, let's get to Swift Justice where we answer small disputes with quick judgment. Here's one from SZ. When returning an opened bag of chips to the cupboard, I think you should be thorough in removing the air from the bag. Or is it enough to just fold over the top once

and clip it in the middle? Obviously, when you're trying to store food product, the more air you can get out of the bag, the longer it will last. But SZ, I got to tell you something. You're never gonna make those chips crisp again. It's never gonna happen no matter how much air you get out of there.

Once it's open, you gotta eat them and as quickly as possible. Don't get party size for yourself. Share it with friends. But those chips are never gonna get better and they're not even gonna stay the same the only exception of course is if you're on tour with Jesse Thorne and Jennifer Marmor and Jennifer Marmor gets a bag of a crab chips and

and the two of you eat half of them in the back of the Chrysler Pacifica And then you leave it open in the back of the Pacifica for the afternoon, and it gets to be about 100 degrees in there. Well, then you have a whole new snack called Utz Hot Crab Chips. Yeah. Otherwise, you're splitting hairs. You should be splitting potato chips in your teeth. Eat them up, SZ. So, speaking of Tor, we just wrapped the first two legs of the Judge John Hodgman Road Court.

And yet, you know, the Judge John Hodgman Road Court. And yet you know the Judge John Hodgman podcast has three legs. We will be heading to New England starting November 6th. If you live in or near Burlington, Vermont, Portland, Maine, Ernest Falls, Western Massachusetts, or Brookline, Eastern Massachusetts, we want and need you there and we want to need your cases. Our show in Brookline is sold out. So if you missed out on tickets, there is only one way to get into the show, and that's to come to us with a great dispute for us to hear live on stage.

And if you're going to be in any of these other spots and you have a dispute that you'd like to be adjudicated on stage by us, let us know, won't you? Submit all of your disputes at maximumfun.org slash jjho. That link again for your disputes, maximumfund.org slash jjho. That link again for your disputes, maximumfund.org slash jjho. And of course, we want to hear any of your disputes at that URL, maximumfund.org slash jjho. No case too big or too small. We judge them all. Maximumfund.org slash jjho. And remember, if you are a member of Maximum Fun,

we have an all disputes answered guarantee on the Membo mailbag. So send them in, MaximumFun.org slash JJ HO. Let us know you're a member and use that secret passcode. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgkin podcast. Maximum Fun. A worker owned network. See you next time on the Judge John Hodgkin podcast.