Judge John Hodgman - Live From Boston, MA 2016

Episode Date: December 1, 2016

"Sole Custody" and "Law and Gag Order," taped in front of a live audience in Boston, MA on September 18, 2016 during the Tour of Live Justice! Plus, Swift Justice, Expert Witness Ken Reid of TV Guidance Counselor and songs from Juliana Hatfield! Thank you to Stephen Coughlin and Michael Toscano for suggesting this week's titles! To suggest a title for a future episode, like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook. We regularly put a call for submissions.

This week's Judge John Hodgman was recorded in front of a live audience at the Wilbur Theatre in Boston, Massachusetts. Tonight, sole custody. Brian brings Angela to court over her shoe collection. Brian says she has too many shoes, but they're too important to Angela to get over her shoe collection. Brian says she has too many shoes, but they're too important to Angela to get rid of. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom.

Thank you. I was sad because I had no shoes until I met a man who had no feet. So I said, got any shoes you're not using? Jesse Thorne, swear them in. Please raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God, or whatever?

Yes, I do. Yes, me too. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling despite the fact that he refuses categorically to wear shoes of any kind? Yes. Yes, sure. Very well. Please sit sit Angela, Brian for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors can either of you name the piece of culture or the speaker of the culture that I spoke as I walked into the courtroom

let's see Angela you are brought here against your will by Brian so you can guess first or you can ask Brian to guess first which shall it be Brian can guess first, or you can ask Brian to guess first. Which shall it be? Brian will guess first. Brian will guess first. A classic maneuver. Brian, you must guess,

and you must guess. You cannot say, I don't know. Some homeless people down the street, maybe? Some homeless people down... That's not a really popular culture. That's not really popular culture. That's it. That's a sad tableau of urban despair. But we

shall put it in the guest's book anyway. Angela, I think you have a really good chance to guess correctly. If this were a game about who was less wrong, you are already gonna win. But unfortunately, the only way to win is to be right.

So what is your guess, Angela? Okay, a little closer to the mic, Angela. Some crazy driver in town. A crazy driver in town. Crazy driver in town. Was that a Boston-based sitcom of some kind?

I'm trying to follow the rules of not saying certain words on stage. Oh, okay. As a matter of fact, all guesses are wrong, especially since neither of those were a piece of popular culture, a book, a film, a movie, or an entertainer of any kind. I was, in fact, quoting an entertainer, and people enjoyed the joke in the room,

but there was not better laughter because I am not a genius like the genius of Boston-based and born and bred comedian Stephen Wright, who wrote that joke. Whom I once saw at a diner when they had such things in Brookline Village when I was maybe 15 years old. And for some reason in my pocket, I had a small figurine of a cow from a farm set. Because I was weird. And I walked up to Stephen Wright and I said, I just want you to have this. And he said, I just want you to have this. And he said, thank you.

And if he ever listens to this, I bet you still have my cow, Stephen. I want it back. But since you both guessed incorrectly, we have to go ahead and hear this case. And the case is regarding your collection of fashion shoes, Angela. Let the record show that Angela is wearing

some incredible shoes right now. Don't encourage her. Say it again, sir. Don't encourage her, please. I will decide whom I encourage. I discourage you from discouraging me. Sorry, judge. That's right.

Brian, if I may, shut the pile. For those listening at home who are not here at the beautiful Wilbur Theater, or for those people in the Wilbur Theater who are on the second mezzanine and are thus five miles away, hello up there.

Did you get the oxygen tanks I sent you? Angela is wearing a beautiful high-heeled, it's a combination of gossamer and glitter, and who made those shoes, Angela? Christiane Louboutin. Now look, Jesse Thorne, you are an expert in menswear of all kind.

Tom Brown. Boom. You got some sweet rogues on, that's for sure. Thank you. But even I, an expert in no clothes, knows Christiane Louboutin is pretty good, right? That's good? Yeah, that's top quality. And they really are beautiful shoes.

I'm not someone who gets into shoes that much. I don't notice them, but I notice these. And the dispute here is that you have too many shoes according to your boyfriend, husband? I missed it. Husband. Husband. And how many shoes do you have?

How many pairs of shoes do you have, would you estimate? Hues? I think I close How many pairs of shoes do you have, would you estimate? Heels? I think I close to have 300 pairs of heels. I'd say that's accurate. And that's only heels. So... High heels. Sneakers, trainers, plimsolls.

No, none of those things. Loafers, flats. Does that head shake indicate that you have none of those types of shoes? I'm just picturing you at spinning class right now. of shoes. I'm just picturing you at spinning class right now. I do have them, but they are not really

important to being counted. They don't. That's a little shoe racist if you ask me. So we're talking about 300 pair of high heels alone, right? And that is your collection.

Does that give you happiness, or are you subject to some strange obsession that you can't control? It makes me happy when I think about them every night before I go to bed. Do you have to think about each pair before you go to bed? Do you have to say goodnight to them? I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you. I'm coming, Brian! I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you.

I say hello to them once in a while. Do they live somewhere else? Do you have a storage locker somewhere? Where are they kept? No, they just live right next to me, to my bed. Where do you, you guys live storage locker somewhere? Where are they kept? No, they just live right next to me to my bed. Where do you, you guys live here in Boston? Wait, right next to your bed or right next to you in your bed? I have my true love on my right side, and then I have my 300 other loves on my left side.

You're 300 secret lovers. Do you have a closet? Or are they just piled up in a sparkly pile? They're in a shelf. We basically, our bedroom is essentially a closet.

Ryan, I believe you submitted some evidence to this court, some visual evidence? I did. May we see that piece of evidence and enter it into the deliberations? Now I'm hearing a number of people spontaneously applauding in admiration. Let the record show that the image shows shelves and shelves of very, very beautiful, and I would say well-curated, high heels. What is the pride of your collection? Are they the ones you're wearing now,

or is there another pair that you feel really excited about? There's this other pair that I recently acquired. Huntdown, Trackdown is more of the terms. It came out in 2013 and it took me a while 2016 August

22nd to finally buy them. So you had been hunting three years for this pair of shoes. Yeah. Do you plan to celebrate that anniversary each year in the future? Maybe I'll take them out for a spin. Have you worn them? Yes.

Okay. And why was it so hard to find them? I saved up for my shoes. I don't just see something and then I spend my money. I do think about them for three years before I purchase them. What was the criteria that led you to choose these shoes? It just stands out to me. It's very unique.

And I guess after three years, I'm still thinking about them, so I'm like, track them now. Angela, can you describe this pair of what in the sneakerhead community are called grail sneaks? It's by Rene Calvila. They have glitter sole. And it's Swaski, gold Swaski. And then we have, it almost looks like a tuxedo here. A tuxedo? Oh, wow.

And how much did they cost? Retail was $1,600 plus tax. Oh! Let the audio record show that Judge John Hodgman painted in amazement. Retail, $1,600. But you paid... I paid... $32.

No, I actually paid $945. That's a bargain. And you saved up for it. You saved up your money to buy these things? No. You're under oath. Yeah, you're under fake oath. No, I guess part of me waited for three years

because I wasn't having a budget back then, and I've been keeping tab on them, and then realized that it came on sale, and then I'm like, okay, I guess now I have a job, not in college anymore, I would be able to splurge. What is your job, and when were you in college, and how many of your shoes did you purchase before you had a job? And bear in mind that shoe hoarding is not a job.

Actually, it is. It could be, you know. When I was in college, I'm actually a blogger, so a lot of shoes. I do get paid by shoes. You get paid in shoes? There are stores who send me shoes to have me wear them and feature it on my blog or on my Instagram. It's called craft.

Yes. You understand what's happening here. These shoe companies are using you and your blog and you're like, yes, please. Spoken like a guy who did not accept cases and cases of Irish whiskey for free when he wrote about whiskey for a men's journal. By the way, red breast is still the best.

Brian, how long have you guys been married? We've been married since January 11th of 2015. Well, and, uh, how long have you known each other before that? We met, uh, in college, I think it was 2011. And, uh, what college did you go to? High Fashion College for Cobblers? Uh, no. We both attended, uh... The University of a College for Cobblers? No. We both attended... The University of a Pile of Shoes?

In Shoe Pile, Pennsylvania? It's a nice little liberal arts school. Yeah, it's great. It's actually got quite a music scene. Yeah. A lot of shoe gays. quite a music scene. Yeah.

Yeah. A lot of shoe caves. Don't applaud that. Boo that. That was an amazing joke. Thank you. I'll see you guys later. I just want to

contemplate that joke while looking at my shoes. All right. what college? Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute and what did you study there at Rensselaer? I studied computer science computer science and Angela studied nuclear engineering

she has a master's degree she has a master's degree in nuclear engineering. And is that the field you're working in now? No. Okay. What is the field you're working in now? I'm actually in retail at Kate Spade New York. Oh, okay.

And Brian, when you said she has a degree in nuclear engineering, you almost expressed a kind of sneering disdain, not for nuclear engineering, but for the fact that she had such an advanced degree, but instead was buying a lot of shoes. Like those two things can't go together. Do I represent you accurately there? Did I hear a sneer, sir?

Is that a sneer here? I would say yes. Do you feel that you were supposed to marry a nuclear engineer and now she's working in Kate Spade with a lot of shoes and you're like, what went wrong? Yes. Yeah. Do you feel that you were supposed to marry a nuclear engineer, and now she's working in Kate Spade with a lot of shoes, and you're like, what went wrong? Well, when we first met, she was taking me out to dinner quite often. Right.

And now the shoe is on the other foot. Oh! Oh! Now, just I need to consult with my bailiff for a second. Yeah. Now, obviously, objectively, that was a terrible joke. Yeah. Right? Whereas you're saying that the bands in Shoe Pile, Pennsylvania

play a lot of shoegaze is a beautiful joke. But there's a certain level of esoterica to that joke. And it only reached the audience that it was meant for and them alone, much like this podcast. Whereas Brian knows a joke that's going to go over,

going to reach all four quadrants. Do you know what I'm saying? Well, Brian is actually going to be here next week opening for Dave Coulier. Yeah, yeah. And by next year, he's going to have five shows in a row

here. He's going to sell them out with the incredible shoe humor of Brian, the computer scientist. I'm just saying it landed. That's what I'm saying. You obviously have been working on it for days, and I'm just saying it landed. That's what I'm saying. You obviously have been working on it for days and I'm grateful to you. Well done. Brian,

what do you work in now? Do you have a job? Yes, I'm a software developer. A software developer. It seems like you probably make pretty good money. You could take her out to dinner, as it were. Oh yeah. And when was she... Do you have anything that you like, like shoes?

How many pairs of shoes do you own? I'd say I own maybe ten pairs of shoes. Nine. Nine? In your opinion, Angela, is that not enough shoes for Brian, or is that about the right amount? He could have more. Yeah? Yeah.

What is the objection, Brian, to the shoe collection? It just seems a little excessive to me. And Angela, being a tastemaker I think it's in poor taste well but if but if she is pursuing a career in tastemaking shoe blogging isn't this just part of the trade it's a part I don't really agree with. Well, I'd like to get to the bottom of it. Why don't you agree with it? Do you feel that it is shameful excess? Do you feel that it's costing you both too much money?

Do you feel that shoes are terrible and we should all be barefoot? Well, I mean... A.K.A. the UC Santa Cruz defense. Sorry, guys. The Hampshire Cruz defense. Sorry, guys. The Hampshire College defense. Thank you. Thank you. See, Jesse?

Now you're getting it. Yeah. Hit them where they live. Yeah. I mean, you only have one pair of feet, right? So why do you need so many pairs of heels Brian I think you're a very lucky man I mean wouldn't you agree I do yeah

before I can rule one way or the other I need to hear a real as honest an argument as you can make as to why you would deny something that obviously brings Angela happiness. And let me give you an example of what arguments are.

Alright. Okay. We can't afford this. It takes up too much space. I think that it is mentally unhealthy. I want my wife to be unhappy. Some kind of affirmative argument that explains why this is a bad idea.

Or it makes me unhappy because. And then you talk about your dumb feelings there. Get in there. Let's get deep. I think it's mainly the first two points that you brought up. We live in a small apartment. It's a one-bedroom. We just got a dog. What's the name of the dog?

Shoes? Shoebox? His name is Milo, and he has never once chewed a pair of shoes. Oh, wow. He gets it. What kind of dog is he? He's a mix.

A mix, good. Angela, I'm surprised you allow a dog in your house. I told him the day when he come home, if you chew my shoes, you're going straight back to the shelter. Angela knows how to win in court. Threaten a puppy. Fine for me or the dog gets it. Yeah, and I mean, there's just not a lot of room in our house.

I recently, well, in the past year, I had to get rid of my drum set because that was taking up too much room. Oh, I see. I think we found the... This is a crux of vendetta. Why did you have to get rid of your drum set? Because of space issues.

What or who compelled you? Well, there wasn't enough. I had just built the first iteration of the shoe shelf that you see behind you. You built that yourself? Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, well done. Well, from, yeah. Oh, well done. Well, from Ikea pieces.

Technically, I hired a guy on Craigslist to put it together from... Because... Look, honey, I built you a television by buying it. I built you a television by buying it. You constructed a shoe shelf. Yes, that's right. Well, when did you get rid of your drum set? It was in our last apartment when we were living in Jamaica Plain. And now you live where?

With roommates. We live now in Brighton, near the Chestnut Hill Reservoir. Right, okay. We'll all come and visit later. Thank you for giving us those directions. Everyone's welcome. And you're out on your own

for the very first time together as a married couple, right? No? Yes? Okay. Okay, good. Yes? No? Okay, yes. Right. Correct. Okay, yeah.

All right. Okay, got it. And you made a sacrifice. Correct. Okay, yeah. All right. Okay, got it. And you made a sacrifice. Yes. Your drum set. Mm-hmm. You love playing the drums? I do.

Are you good at it? I'm pretty good. Who's your favorite drummer, Neil Peart? When I was younger, I went to a Rush concert. I think that was the first concert my parents ever took me to. Really? Yeah, yeah. You have extremely generous parents? Yeah, yeah.

You have extremely generous parents. Yeah, yeah. Well, you could sit down, you know? It's not like... Right. There were seats. Right. But you still had to listen to Rush. I'm just saying maybe his parents weren't into it.

That's all. I think the point here is that whether you're standing or sitting, you're listening to a song about a war between the trees. How long do you play drums for? I've played drums since I was about 10 years old. Wow. And what is your age now, did you say? I'm 26.

26, and now you don't play at all. No. No. No. Do you feel the arc of justice bending towards you? Sympathetically? I hope so. It's hard to be sympathetic to a drummer, you know. I think that's a T-shirt.

I think that's a T-shirt. I think that's a T-shirt right there. Well said. I don't think I've ever met as eloquent a drummer. I've learned to keep quiet. Angela, did you make him get rid of his drums? No. I'll remind you of your under oath. Oh, no.

Would it be okay for him to have a drum set in the apartment if it meant you could keep your shoes? Yeah, if he can fit it in. I mean, there is room. First, he actually suggested I'll get rid of my drums. I'm like, why? And he's like, there's no room. I'm like, okay.

Were you trying to convince her by your passive-aggressive sacrifice that she should make one? I was trying to lead by example, Your Honor. Where are your drums now, or did you hawk them? Yeah, some guy bought them for me on Craigslist. This is a sad story. He gave me a t-shirt, though. I don't have it anymore, though.

I can't remember what it said, either. This went from being a simple sad story to a weird Raymond Carver story. He was pretty psyched. Well, what would you have me order if I were to rule in your favor, now that you have gained the court's sympathy? I would like, at the very least,

a one-in, one-out policy. One pair in, one pair out. Exactly. I gotcha. Angela, why is that not reasonable? Okay. In our house, he has two guitars or a bass or something in that shape. Sitting there, asking when was the last time he touched them.

Wait, you're not answering my question. But here's the thing. I wear my 300 pair of shoes. I rotate them. They actually get used. There are things that he stores in the house... Once per year each. That just sit there and got dust up.

So I... You're saying that because he has a guitar and a bass that he never plays, that I should throw this case out? Or he can sell them again. Make more room for shoes? Mm-hmm. You are merciless, aren't you, Angela?

Do you love your shoes more than your husband? No. I'll leave. If you left, there'd be more room for shoes. I have a feeling if you walked out right now, I'd turn around, next thing I know, that stool would be piled with shoes.

Angela, I kind of feel like at this point the question is, how much could you get for Brian on Craigslist? Hopefully more than I got for the drum set. Do you worry that Angela loves shoes more than you, Brian? Maybe a little bit, yeah. Let's see. Angela, 300 shoes, is that not enough?

Or just about right? Just about right. Just about right? Yeah. So are you against the one-in-one-out policy? Yes. Yes. Is there a maximum number that you...

No. Can you afford a storage space? I think we could. No. No. I think that there is a certain amount of financial consideration here, and I hate to ask such questions, but is it fair to say that Brian makes more than you at this time in your marriage?

Sure. Okay. And do you think that you will make more money in the future as a tastemaker and a shoe blogger? Do you anticipate doing that, or do you think it's... No, I don't anticipate doing that. So it's just going to be the same. Is your plan to hawk nuclear secrets to our enemies abroad?

No. Ryan, do you think, would you feel more comfortable if there were a storage space where the shoes could live and she could have access to them when she wants? Sort of like a pied-à-terre where she visits her lover from time to time. I suppose so. I'd prefer if we just moved into a larger apartment, you know. When she was taking me out to dinner all the time back in college, I sort of anticipated that we'd be living in a nicer place than we are now.

So why was she able to take you to dinner all the time? Did she have more money than you during college? Is that what you're implying? Yeah, that's right. And now does she not have that money anymore because it all went into shoes? And you're mad because you don't get a lot of free dinners? She doesn't have access to her parents' credit card anymore. I think I've heard everything I need to. I'm going to...

Ladies and gentlemen, please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Thank you. You may be seated. Brian, how do you feel about your chances in the case? I feel pretty good. I think the sob story about my drum set and playing second fiddle to a pile of shoes is pretty compelling. Angela, would you say that it's pretty reasonable

for a grown man to have about 40 or 50 pairs of shoes? And if you could address this to Teresa Thorne. Why not? You know, when you put on a suit and you don't have a decent pair of shoes to put on to your friend's wedding, I think you need to shop for more. What if you have like eight or ten decent pairs of shoes for a friend's wedding? But you probably need 15

or 20, right? That's my perspective on it. I don't know. Well, we'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about all of this. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom. You may be seated. I've been thinking about this a lot, because Angela clearly has a passion, and you like what you like is one of the

strongest precepts of this fake internet court. And not only does she like what she likes, but she likes beautiful things. I mean, the shoes, I am not a person who normally appreciates women's shoes, but every one of these up here,

as far as I can tell, is a winner. Are people out there who like shoes think I'm correct? And, you know, it is challenging in a marriage when someone has a passion that is so powerful and so non-remunerative, And yet so deep and personal to them to not feel that perhaps they love that thing more than you. And if you lose sight of the fact that they do love you and start to worry too much about the passion that they have, whether that is a job or a hobby or whatever it is,

they will, I'll say it, love you less. And yet, as much as I feel, Angela, that your taste is impeccable and your passion is pure and sincere, and I think the fact that you have given up what might have been a lucrative career as a nuclear engineer. I mean, is there money in that? I don't know. Is there? Yeah. Yeah, there's money in that. Ask Mr. Jimmy Carter.

In order to work in the world of fashion and be a retail associate at Kate Spade and buy as many shoes as you can, right? and be a retail associate at Kate Spade and buy as many shoes as you can, right? You have to offer some consideration to the fact that even though he did it in a rather passive-aggressive way, Brian gave up his drum kit and is funding this whole operation, more or less. Wouldn't you say? Can you afford all these shoes

if you were by yourself in the world? He doesn't pay for any of these. Well, you guys share money now. You understand that, right? That's what being married is. That's why it's such a goddamn drag. Because you take a romantic relationship and turn it into a business partnership.

And I don't want to preside over a courtroom, say, in a world where I would ever say, stop spending your spouse's money on something frivolous. But you guys do share finances, right? And this is not an inexpensive hobby that you have chosen. And you have also said that you do not intend to transform your hobby into a lucrative career in the future. Do I have all that correct? Yeah. All right. So I do, even though I feel that Brian needs to be very careful about how he perceives your hobby

and develop an affection and appreciation for this part of the woman that he loves and has married, because it's never going away, it's always going to be a part of the woman that he loves and has married because it's never going away. It's always going to be a part of your lives together. You're never going to get rid of the shoes, Brian. No matter... Look, you gave up your drums, the shoes stay. You give up your bass, the shoes will be there. You give up your guitar, the shoes will keep coming.

It's like a weird giving tree. At the end of the day, if you just keep giving up stuff, hoping that she's going to change, you're going to be a stump in the woods, and she's going to sit down on you and try on some damn shoes. So I am going to find with certain clear caveats in Brian's favor in that and the reason for it isn't that he's making more money at this time or you're out of control with the

shoes because I don't think you're out of control with the shoes. I think you think very carefully about the money that you spend on them and they're worth every penny. Pennies in aggregates of thousands of dollars to you. Because those financial fortunes may change and shift and you may get a bigger place or you may have to move to a smaller place and make changes down the road. No, the reason I am going to order a limit on the number of shoes you may own at any given time is that 300 is a terrible number.

It's just not cool. It's just, there's no aesthetic to it. And you are too aesthetically awesome to be stuck with a dumb number like 300. You don't want a number of shoes that corresponds to a movie about Spartans. And the solution to me became clear the moment that Jesse Thorne said,

about a shoe for each day of the year. About a shoe for each day of the year. About a shoe for each day of the year is not good enough. A pair of shoes for each day of the year. You have to create appropriate storage and budget to accumulate another 65 pairs of shoes. another 65 pairs of shoes. Wait, wait! 66 for leap year. One pair for every day of the year is enough.

And then, thereafter, you're going to have to learn to say goodbye to some shoes as you acquire more, because it'll be one in and one out thereafter. That is my ruling. This is the sound of half a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is my ruling. This is the sound of half a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. I wish I would throw something away.

Brian and Angela, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you, Brian and Angela. Judge Hodgman, having considered the future of that couple and, let's be honest, my personal future Yes Also, 365 pairs of shoes for you, Jesse You're all getting a year's worth of shoes I you, Jesse. Yes!

You're all getting a year's worth of shoes. I'm not giving it to you. You're paying for it yourself. I think it's time to do something fresh and new. We actually have a guest on this show. That's right. I'm so... I think it's fair to say that we are both so thrilled to welcome our musical guest this evening.

She is one of my heroes, and I could not believe when she agreed to do the show. You know her from the Blake Babies. You know her from the Juliana Hatfield Three. And most recently, she's formed a new band with Paul Westerberg called the I Don't Cares and their new album, the... Excuse me, what's the name of the album?

Wild Stab. Wild Stab, sorry. More recently, she's formed a band with Paul Westbrook called the I Don't Cares, and her album Wild Stab has just come out. Please welcome Juliana Hatfield. Thank you. Hello, Boston. Boston.

The couch is an island A desert oasis The room is a spaceship And you're an undiscovered planet I push the hair out of my eyes I pull the blanket around me I bite my nail, scratch my shoulder I peel

the label off the bottle and tear it into tiny pieces I don't know what to do with my hands I don't know what to

do with my hands Maybe the phone will ring I don't know what to do with my hands Maybe the phone will ring And then I'll get to answer it A momentary distraction I can't predict your reaction to my touch I could sit here all night Our knees almost touching, but not ever quite.

I don't know what to do with my hands. I don't know what to do with my hands I don't know what to do with my hands I don't know what to do with my hands I can't decide on a channel I'm just flipping around, maybe you can't choose Maybe some kind of monster Maybe I just don't know how to reach out, reach out

I don't know what to do with my hands I don't know what to do With my hands I don't know what to do With my hands I don't know what to do With my hands I kinda wanted to stay this way No wrong moves, no mistakes

Nothing lost, nothing broken Like a boat on a windless ocean I kinda wanted to stay this way No wrong moves, no mistakes Nothing lost, nothing broken Like a boat on a windless ocean I don't know what to do I don't know what to do

I don't know what to do do I don't know what to do I don't know what to do Thanks Thanks. Juliana Hatfield, ladies and gentlemen. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you,

the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join, and you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning, the experience of learning causes a sound to happen? Let's hear the sound. Yep. That's the sound of you learning a new language with Babbel. We're talking about quick 10 minute lessons crafted by over 200 language experts that can help you start speaking a new language in as little as one, two, three weeks. Let's hear that sound. Babbel's tips and tools are approachable, accessible, rooted in real

life situations, and delivered with conversation-based teaching. So you're ready to practice what you've learned in the real world, and you get to hear this sound. It's not just like a game that pretends to teach you a language. It's also not a rigid, weird, hyper-academic chore. It is an actually productive app that actually teaches you while you are actually having a nice time. And you get to hear this sound. Here's a special limited time deal for our listeners right now. Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners at babbel.com slash Hodgman. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman.

Rules and restrictions apply. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In. Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right? Yeah, from the restaurant Kraft. And did you know that most of the dishes at that very same restaurant are made with Made In pots and pans? Really? What's an example? The braised short ribs, they're Made In, Made in. The Rohan duck, made in, made in. Riders of Rohan, duck. What about the Heritage Pork Shop?

You got it. Made in, made in. Made in has been supplying top chefs and restaurants with high-end cookware for years. They make the stuff that chefs need. Their carbon steel cookware is the best of cast iron, the best of stainless clad. It gets super hot. It's rugged enough for grills or an open flame. One of the most useful pans you can own.

And like we said, good enough for real professional chefs, the best professional chefs. Oh, so I have to go all the way down to the restaurant district in restaurant town? Just buy it online. This is professional grade cookware that is available online directly to you, the consumer at a very reasonable price. Yeah. If you want to take your cooking to the next level, remember what so many great dishes

on menus all around the world have in common. They're made in, made in. Save up to 25% this Memorial Day from the 18th until the 27th. Visit madeincookware.com. That's M-A-D-E-I-N cookware.com. We actually, Judge Hodgman, have some old friends of the show here tonight.

And I thought we might catch up with them. Do you remember Kara and Colin from episode 208, Sunrise Upset? I do remember them because I have some notes right here. As I recall, off the top of my head, Kara brought her husband Colin to court because she wanted him to give up his obsession with waking up with the sun every day. And I ruled that he could continue doing it since he would soon move to Boston and take up a teacher's schedule,

which means waking up before the sun. So why don't we have Kara and Colin out here to find out what happened. Kara and Colin? Kara and Colin, ladies and gentlemen. Kara and Colin. Hi, Kara. Hi, Colin. Hi, Josh. It's nice to meet you both in person.

You're exactly as I pictured you, although, Colin, I thought you would be wearing like a British Bobby's hat for some reason, but here you are. How did it go, Kara? Well, he only does the sunrise alarm recreationally now, so I said we're on a good run. Explain to me again,

Colin, why you wanted to wake up every day with the sun. I wanted to resonate with the spheres, and I wanted to... I wanted the magnets and the orbits to link up to my schedule. You know what? You're weirder than I remember.

How long did your experiment go where you were waking up with sunrise every morning? So I started in, it was probably around February of 2015, because I remember it was Chinese New Year. And so I started, I was waking up every morning, and then every morning I was waking up earlier and earlier and earlier and earlier, and then we moved back to Boston from Taipei, and I did it for about a week, and then I realized that I didn't, I shouldn't do it anymore, because I was on vacation. I didn't need to wake up that early. But then, and then when, you know, when the school year started back up um i was waking up at five o'clock to go to work and that was before the sun came up and it was um it's pretty dreary and grim but now but then uh toward the end of the school year um in april i started realizing that i could

wake up at like 5 46 and still get to work on time. So then I started waking up earlier and earlier and earlier. And then summer vacation happened, and then I was waking up earlier and earlier and earlier. But then it noticed. That's another answer. I got it, I got it, I got it. Finally, July has come. You have this all written down in a log somewhere, I presume Maybe etched in your own blood

I mean, it's the alarm on my phone I have it in my phone right now This morning I woke up at 6.28 because it's Sunday I didn't have to go to work And that was sunrise today Yeah, today was 6.28, yeah On the East Coast, Boston, Massachusetts Kara, do you need any help?

Lots Yeah Kara, do you need any help? Lots. Yeah. Kara and Colin, we're about to move into a segment which we call Swift Justice, where we're going to adjudicate a bunch of cases in a very short period of time. Do you happen to have any new disputes that we could settle for you right here, right now?

There is one thing. Oh, good. So recently, Colin bought a jaw harp and... Cool. That's the twangy thing. Yeah. Got it. The thing about the jaw harp is you don't need one to make those noises.

That, of course, is not to be confused with Toofin throat singing, which goes... Keep it up, keep it up. Go, go, go. No, no, no, no. I thought we had a thing. These and the didgeridoo

are the official instruments of my college town of Santa Cruz, California. All right, so I almost don't need you to elaborate on your dispute. Simply saying my husband bought a jaw harp is usually enough to give me a sense of what the problem is. There's a jaw harp in your life, but

why don't you just go on a little further and let me know how it bothers you. Sure, so he's practiced a couple times, and I think practicing a little further and let me know how it bothers you. Sure. So he's practiced a couple times and I think practicing sounds the same as playing. But he's brought it out unprompted once

already when we had friends over. And I'd like an injunction preventing... What would the prompt sound like? Wow, dinner was great. Do you have anything that goes, Vroom, vroom, vroom, vroom. What would you like for the injunction?

Not bringing the jaw harp out unprompted and also not goading anyone into telling him to bring out the jaw harp. Colin. Colin. Let the record show that I silently prompted, and I was not goaded. So you have permission to perform.

You know, Judge, I'm still a bit of a novice. I don't practice that often. That's fine. That makes it... Let the record show that it is a Snoopy brand jaw harp. Snoopy's harp

featured in the motion picture a boy named Charlie Brown. An early Charlie Brown cartoon that I don't think has been aired for 25 years. And where did you find this? At a music store? Am I allowed to buzzmark it? Please.

Mr. Music in Austin. Was it hard at a music store? I'm allowed to buzz market the Mr. Music in Alston. I got it right on. Mr. Music in Alston, yeah. Was it hard to decide between Snoopy's harp and Popeye's washboard? I walked in there and I went up to the, well, first I kind of

cased the store a little bit and I walked up to the register and I asked the man behind the register, I said, hey man, do you guys sell jaw harps? And he said, yeah. And it was actually right next to the register so it asked the man behind the register, I said, hey man, do you guys sell jaw harps? And he said, yeah. And it was actually right next to the register. So it was very

convenient. Why did you, why were you, why are you out looking for a jaw harp unprompted? We had gone to the Museum of Fine Arts the, I think the Friday beforehand. This was back in August and they hadn't exhibited. I don't need to know the exact dates. You went to the Museum of Fine Arts, and you saw something there. What did you see? A child's heart stretching. I'm still working on it.

I like it. That was the Modern Lover song, Government Center. I don't know, that was... I like how you find your passions. I like how you follow them with diligence and enthusiasm, even sometimes to the detriment of the people around you. And I suspect that on some level, Kara also likes and loves that about you too.

And I think that I'm excited that you saw a jaw harp one day and it brought you to this stage. Now you're playing in front of 1,100 people. That's a meteoric rise in the jaw harp world. And I order you to practice, practice, practice. Do not

but the thing about the jaw harp is you cannot play that thing until you're about to change someone's mind about what they think about the jaw harp. Until you're so good, they're going to be like wow, sorry I ever said that about the jaw harp. Until you're so good, they're going to be like, wow, sorry I ever said that about the jaw harp. You're amazing. And with all fairness, you're not there yet.

So keep... You're doing great. Keep getting up early. And practice. Practice, practice, practice. And you cannot bring the jaw harp out at a dinner until Kara agrees that your guests are going to be blown away

and will not run away. Such is my ruling. Judge Hodgman, are you ready for swift justice? Yes, we got a lot of cases. We're going to adjudicate them swiftly. I'm setting a timer for 10 minutes. So let's get going. 10 minutes begins.

Let's start with Evan and Kristen. Evan and Kristen, to the stage. Please sit down. Kristen, what is your dispute? Actually, I have the dispute. Okay. Hi. So my dispute is that Kristen has been playing Pokemon Go

while we are out to dinner with my parents, and I would like her to not play Pokemon Go, preferably not any phone game, while out to dinner with my parents. Kristen, what have you got? What'd you get? What'd you capture? I'm at like, I have like 120 of them.

Is that good or bad? It's pretty good. Is it so good that you have to keep playing in contrary to all social norms and basic? Oh yeah, absolutely. Why do you want to play Pokemon Go instead of talk to your friend's parents? You guys married?

Engaged. Engaged. Oh, well, now's not the time to make a good impression. Well, they already like me. Alright, so it's already in the bag, so you can just... Kristen, why are you doing this? Why don't you just put it down and have a nice dinner? I generally don't eat a lot of food, and they also don't...

High five in Kristen's favor, then. They also don't have a lot of the same topics. Him and his dad and his brother talk about a lot of things that I have tried to become a part of the conversation, but... You feel excluded? I get shut out. Evan, what are you and your dad and your brother talking about? The band The Pixies,

which Kristen doesn't like. Oh, that's rude. Wow. That's not true. Does she also hate Doctor Who? There may be a riot. I do not hate Doctor Who. Kristen, you know who was in the audience

at my show yesterday in Turner's Falls, Massachusetts? Who's that? Black Francis. That's bonkers. I know, isn't it? Evan, you and me, right? Let's talk about that with your dad and your brother a little bit. It's crazy, right? It's crazy.

New album's great, too. I think it's fantastic. How do you think? Yeah, alright. I think it's fantastic. How do you think? Yeah, all right. Yeah, this is, like, definitely the most bonkers thing that has happened to us on tour. Until we do the San Francisco show and Rappin' Forte comes... All right.

Sorry. Players Club? That's my Black Francis. Fair enough, shoegaze. Anyway. Yeah, you can't play video games at the table, that's my black Francis fair enough shoegaze anyway yeah you can't play video games at the table even if you hate the pixies and especially if you hate the pixies I don't hate the pixies

alright well still I find in Evan's favor sorry Kristen Lisa and Andy please come up to the stage Lisa and Andy hi Lisa and Andy brought your own cheering section what's your dispute? By the way, I don't think people on the

podcast can hear the wonderful array of shoulder tattoos that I've been enjoying. It's been a one, two, three for all the past three litigants who have bared their shoulders. It's a beautiful tattoo. Thank you so much. Sir, do you have any tattoos? I do not, unfortunately.

I see. Well, all right. I find in your wife's face. Oh, God. Are you married? No. He's my brother. He's your brother? Well, then no, I will not marry you. I don't know why.

What is the nature of your dispute? Your Honor, my brother and I are training to run the Boston Half Marathon, which is in just a couple weeks. And we actually ran a half marathon together in June, and in between that time and this time, we decided that we would do a little bit more

intensive training so that we can improve our time. And we check in with each other pretty frequently about it, and each time he keeps telling me I need to run on the treadmill more. I always will run outside as my first option unless I really have to run on the treadmill. I do run on the treadmill pretty frequently especially when the summer it was really hot here in Boston but it's getting really annoying. The treadmill is a great tool. It's something I use but I know I've been running just as long if not longer than my brother, and if I choose to run outside,

I think that is valid, and you can't train exclusively on a treadmill. Lisa, I get it. You want to move through the world and experience it. You don't want to run on a wheel like a rodent. Thank you. So, brother, Andy, why are you telling her to do something when she doesn't want to run on a wheel like a rodent. Thank you. So, brother Andy, why are you telling her to do something

when she doesn't want to do it? Well, because really she's becoming more of a running hipster at this point. She just wants to have the authentic experience of running all the time. Which, listen, there's nothing wrong with it. Running in Boston is fantastic. I really enjoy it. I thought we had reached the nadir of the meaninglessness of the word hipster.

Until I heard that she's a running hipster. All your arguments mean nothing. You're asking her to do something she doesn't want to do. Why are you telling her that she has to do this? Well, because when we have these discussions about how her running is going, it's often... You're from the Commonwealth. You know that it's very hot in the summer and it's cold in the winter and it's not always doable to run outside.

Is the half marathon held on treadmills? It's just a series of treadmills. What training benefit does she get from treadmills that is better than the training benefit she gets from running outside? Completing a run. Because she will often say, oh, I tried to go running but it was too hot. Well, it's like 100 degrees out. Yeah, you can actually do a run on a treadmill because it's room temperature.

Let me ask you. Maybe I don't understand what a half marathon is. Is a half marathon a full marathon but one of you carries the other one half the time? Pretty much. It's a relay, yeah. Is it a relay? No. Right? You guys are each running your own race, correct? I don't... Is it a relay? No. No. Right? You guys are each running your own race, correct?

Correct. Each one of you runs your own race. You know how to decide this? Beat him in the race. Train however you want to. Thank you, Judge. That is all. Charlie and Zach, please. Charlie and Zach, do you have any shoulder tattoos

that I should be aware of? Unfortunately, no. I'm sorry, I was not told to prepare. What are your ages? You both seem like young people. 19. 19. Also 19.

19. You know, when I was 19 years old, I couldn't get a tattoo in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. I had to go to Portsmouth, New Hampshire. You guys have all seen my dumb prison tattoo, right? Sorry. It's a diamond. It's a diamond.

If you can't believe it, I designed it myself. It's an homage to a story, Death and the Compass, by Jorge Luis Borges. And it cost... What did you yell? Nerd? Nerd? Did I hear that correct? I just want to hear how hard that pot is calling this kettle black.

That's a pretty chill tattoo to get at 19. Plus $20. $20. So I'm just letting you know, now you live in an age where you can do whatever you want here in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts to get a tattoo at the age of 19. So what tattoos are you guys going to get? Can I see your tattoo again?

No. I'm going to get tattoos. Why weren't you paying attention the first time? Well, I just want to get it in my mind so I can tell the guy in vivid detail exactly what I want and where get tattooed. Why weren't you paying attention the first time? Well, I just want to get it in my mind so I can tell the guy in vivid detail exactly what I want and where I want it. I'll attribute it to you. Which one are you again?

I'm Charlie. I find it Charlie's favorite. Now that I've made the order, let's go back and see if I was right. Zach, what's the problem here? Charlie is the plaintiff here, actually. Oh, my God. All right, Plaintiff Charlie, what's the problem?

So Zach and I, being all young and hip and that, use this app called Snapchat to communicate. We get it. You're running, hipsters. So there's also a function on Snapchat where you can send messages to each other. to communicate. We get it. You're running hipsters. So there's also a function on Snapchat where you can send messages to each other. But the thing is, like the pictures, the messages disappear once you look at them.

And so I think that when Zach tries to have conversations with me using this message feature, I lose the ability to really have a meaningful conversation because there's a lack of context and it becomes disjointed because I'm trying to remember the last thing he said and form a cohesive argument. And so

I think it would be easier if Zach wants to have a conversation with me, he can text me, which is just as easy to reach because they're both on your phone. That's true. He's got a point. When Zach heard the word text, he threw his head back in disdain. What do you think I am, a millennial?

Sorry, old man. Zach, why won't you text with your friend? Okay, I just want to point this out. He's not talking about large conversations here. To an extent, I am. The first time that he ever got upset about me texting him via Snapchat was when I asked him where he was sitting in the dining hall. That's not a conversation that requires a long record of every word I said.

That is a very, very quick message that he can relay very quickly. I would like to dispute that claim. When I first gave Zach my phone number, it was over Snapchat message, because I said, perhaps this would be easier if we texted. Why don't you guys just whisper together in your telekinetic made-up twin language? You should see up in the mezzanine, there's a third one of us. There's a third one? There is a third one.

We're communicating with him right now, actually. Hey, Danny. You don't need to say it. He understands. I'm translating. As fun as it was visiting with the village of the damned, I have to say my

initial instinct is correct that Charlie is right. Just text message with your friend. The point of conversations is to be able to understand each other. And unfortunately, he's too dim to get the Snapchat. And you want to communicate with him, so do it. There you go. Thank you. Hello, teachers and faculty.

This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice but to embrace because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls.

If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Hmm. Are you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit.

No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah, we are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Judge Hodgman, we've got another case.

Would you like to retire to your chambers? I do. Okay. Well, first of all, I'd like to bring out an expert for our next case. You might know him from the TV Guidance Counselor podcast or from his stand-up comedy, Boston's Own Ken Reed. Hello, Ken. Thank you very much. Tonight's case, law and gag order.

Tim brings the case against his wife, Hina. Hina likes to watch a certain house-buying reality television show when she's unwinding. Tim watches with her while providing his own, sometimes snarky, commentary. Tim's comments bother Hina, who likes to enjoy the show for what it is. Tim would like to continue to hate-watch the show. Who's right, who's wrong? Please rise, metaphorically, as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the show. Who's right? Who's wrong? Please rise metaphorically as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom.

We each have the choice whether to be a good or a bad influence in the lives of others. Two, in a lifetime, if we are truly lucky, we meet that special somebody who fits us perfectly, the person who's weird matches ours completely. Three, the first step in bringing an idea to life is putting pen to paper. Four, it's much easier to follow the popular path than it is to be a man of character.

Five, knowledge is all about perspective. The more you learn, the less you discover that you know. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, swear them in. Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do. I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he believes that your homes and the homes of all the people present are technically his property? I do. I do. Very well. You may be seated. Tim and Hina, for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors, can you name the piece of culture that I quoted as I entered the courtroom? Hina, you are brought here against your will by Tim. So you have the choice to guess first or make Tim guess first.

Which shall you choose? I'll make him guess first. He's going to guess first. Very popular option. Tim, what is your guess? Was it original House Hunters host Suzanne Huang? Whoa, deep cut. Deep cut. Tim, can I give you some advice?

You're doing great with deep cuts so far, but be careful, because for every original House Hunters host Tina Huang, there's a rap in forte that's really going to die out there. Sometimes deep cuts don't heal. I can fix that. All right, we'll put that in the guest book. Hina, what is your guess? Biblical verse.

Biblical verse. We'll put that into the guest book. Before I evaluate the validity of your guesses and their wrongness, you think I don't know who is the current host of House Hunters? The great Andromeda Dunker. There it is. That was it. That was the one for you. Too deep. Too deep a cut. Wait until I start talking about Antiques Roadshow host Mark L. Wahlberg.

Known the world over as the world's worst Mark Wahlberg. Not in Boston. Not in Boston. Half this crowd's been punched by the other Mark Wahlberg. punched by the other model.

They both look good in their underpants though, don't they? Both are guesses, but all guesses are wrong. It's very hard to put these together, these cultural references. Sometimes something doesn't just come to mind. Sometimes you need to do a little research. Sometimes, though, the perfect thing presents itself immediately via Google.

As when you Google in certain search terms and immediately get the first result, five quotes from the Property Brothers that get me through tough times. Ah! And in case you were wondering, the quotes in order were by J.D. Scott, the other one. J.D. Scott again,

Drew Scott, Jonathan, and then Jonathan again. So, you're wrong, so we have to hear this case. The show that you watch, and we might as well just reveal it at this point, right, is not Property Brothers, but it is the show... House Hunters. House Hunters. And not House Hunters

International? If I've gone through the DVR of all of the House Hunters, then I will do House Hunters International, Tiny House Hunters, or House Hunters Off the Grid. But you're saying... You're saying house hunters domestic is your number one?

It is. Oh, you could not be more wrong, madam. I'm in awe of how many house hunters there are. This is like looking too deep into adult subreddits. There's curvy House Hunters. There's House Hunters with Sonic

the Hedgehog. What? If you think House Hunters fanfiction does not exist, I am so sure you're wrong. But Ken, wouldn't you agree that House Hunters International is superior to House Hunters? Absolutely, yes.

It's the House Hunters version of having a guest star. Yeah, but you know why? Because these shows are all about stories, right? It's all about narrative, right? You have House Hunters. What do you have? Two people hunting a house. Because why?

They need to move because whatever. Do you know what I'm saying? House Hunters International is already premised on a house. Because why? They need to move because whatever. Do you know what I'm saying? House Hunters International is already premised on a mystery. Why do these people have to leave the country? It's all these families that are like, you know, Rick and Tina suddenly found they needed to move

to countries with lax extradition laws. How come on International House Hunters they also always change their names? That's right, exactly so. Well, because if they called them Julian Assange, they would know where to find him. That was a good episode.

In any case, you like House Hunters. You're into it. What do you like about it? You can tell I'm on your side to some degree. Because I also enjoy these shows. I mean, it's just a way to decompress after a really long, complex day at work. But why this particular show as opposed to any other?

Or this family of shows? Well, because I am a big fan of house hunting. And I live in my grown-up house now. So I can't house hunt in my real life. And so I can live vicariously through these people. Do you live in your grown-up house? Yes. Where in the Boston area?

We live in Shrewsbury, Massachusetts. Shrewsbury, Massachusetts. Sorry. People are howling. For Shrewsbury, Massachusetts. Shrewsbury, Massachusetts. All right. Woo! People are howling for Shrewsbury. Strange. Tim, you also live in Hina's grown-up house, as she calls it. She does allow me to sleep there, yes. Okay, good.

And you do not like to watch The House Hunters. I do not like to watch House Hunters for its face value of entertainment. Well, you mean you don't, but you have contempt for it. Correct. What makes you have contempt for it? Well, just as a New Englander and someone who is of a generation that grew up with David Letterman and David Spade's Hollywood Minute, I just have... No one grew up with that, sir. Nothing against it, but that's not possible.

That arrests development. No, I'm just saying that I have a well of dark bile that needs to be vented onto something, and why not this show that is on in my house? Judge Hodgman, he grew up with David Letterman, Adam Sandler's opera man. The classics. So why not completely destroy the one thing your wife seems to enjoy?

That makes perfect sense. Letterman to that. I think it's about having a cultural equivalency between the two of us. You know, when I found out a few years ago through a number of different sources that the show at this point is not really based in reality, and they may...

At this point is not really based on reality. At this point. Originally. For those who don't know the history of House Hunters, in the 70s, it was a Veriday series for PBS. It was, yeah. It was more of a nature show. That's right. It was a stark, realistic documentary

about an American family hunting for a home in which to live. And then there was that episode where the ranch house came out. That's right. It was television's first gay house. It's true. But is there a show that you enjoy

to unwind that you will watch? He doesn't need to unwind. Why doesn't you enjoy to unwind that you will watch? He doesn't need to unwind. Why doesn't he need to unwind? Because you're such a chill dude. Filled with bile. Sir, are you David Lee Roth? Zip it about. Yeah, he's already said that he has to off-gas his vile bile.

Because of the two of us, I have chosen the kind of less challenging career path so that I can spend more time with our children at home and taking care of the household because you have a very challenging job and you are not physically in the home enough to help with a lot of the things that need to be done. It sounds like a complaint, though.

It started as a compliment and turned into a complaint. I'm just excited because in my imagination, he works at Margaritaville. I'm away enough that he can decompress watching shows whenever he wants. Hina, what is your career? I'm a surgeon. You're a surgeon.

What kind of surgery do you perform on human beings who put their lives in your hands? I do trauma and emergency surgery. Trauma and emergency surgery. So I operate on anywhere from the neck to the pelvis, and I take out spleens, and I fix holes in lungs, and I can do all that stuff. But if it's below the pelvis, you're like, uh-uh, get away. You're going to have to die.

If it's a vascular injury, I'll fix it, but if it's a bone, then we have orthopedic surgeons. Okay, I got you. So, Hino, what exactly do you need to decompress from? Tim, aside from doing all the household management and parenting that you do, do you have a career on top of that? I'm a marketing and communications manager, but I am presently unemployed. Okay, so you're a stay-at-home dad and household manager and housekeeper and dude there like that, right?

Yes, but I would complain about the show when I was employed also. Okay. He just got laid off recently. Because you have time on your hands. Yes. That's right. You have all the time in the world and mental energy in the world to devote to developing some first-class snark against house hunters. That's true.

Ken, this is a style of watching television that's called hate-watching. As you are a television expert, do you have an opinion on this phenomenon? Hate-watching is best done in groups, like-minded groups. Hate-watching is generally not advised when there are only two people and only one of them is hate watching.

That's called divorce fomenting. Really in any of those scenarios hate anything is generally frowned upon. But hate watching sort of developed in the pre-millennium age when people were forced, literally forced to watch things they did not want to watch

because people didn't want to change channels. So if you had a show you liked at 9 and the other person in the house had one at 8.30, they liked that, you hated, you would watch that show because you wouldn't leave the room until your show started at 9, therefore hate watching permissible. To be clear, we're talking about Seinfeld and the single guy.

Yes. Just the NBC 9.30 slot in general. Between ER and Seinfeld, anything that fell into that slot, you could hate watch because you wouldn't get up. With apologies to Caroline Ray. Yes. Yes.

In the 21st century, when we can basically program anything we want at any time, it really isn't a necessity anymore and simply becomes something that's just poor judgment. Or a sick indulgence. Yes. It becomes more about the person you are watching it with than the show. But Ken, I have a question for you. You're a television expert. I mean, in my opinion, the problem with never hate-watching is, like, I have a lot of time to fill with television, and there just

aren't a lot of TV shows these days. It's true. There are only four TV shows these days. Three of them are House Hunters variations. But I don't want to censor Tim, because maybe he's a brilliant hate watcher. Maybe he's getting out some really sick burns on House Hunters.

He may be very good at it, but it's more about appropriateness and not about skill level. Well, did you bring any example of your sick burns? Do you have evidence? I did not. You did not. There have been 538 episodes of the show, There have been 538 episodes of the show, and they all blur together in a mishmash of hateable people who shouldn't be buying houses. So, what are the kinds of things you'll say that will ruin Hina's enjoyment of the show?

And why do these people not deserve to join the landed class? Yes. And more importantly, why do you know exactly how many episodes of this show is? Because I have a suspicion you may be pre-watching these while your wife is at work and writing your...

pre-writing your burns. Like, you have a writer's room with your kids where they, like, kind of all work out some material? She does make our children watch also. She makes your children watch? Yes. Like, against their will?

No. I walk in the house, and they know to turn on house hunters. They know to turn it on, because Mama's home, or else she might not perform vascular surgery when it's required. Hina, you did bring some evidence, did you not? I have it here on my sheet. I mean, that I use it to unwind, yes. What is the physical evidence?

Oh, it's a little PowerPoint that I made. I will allow it. In your free time between saving lives. That's right. Let's see the PowerPoint. She needs it to distress. Oh, this is a Facebook post. Had a crazy-ass night in the PowerPoint. She needs it to distress. Oh, this is a Facebook post. Had a crazy-ass night in the OR.

Had to bring my A-game to a high-stakes seminar today with the dean and lots of other important folks. Unscheduled afternoon, so I snuck home. Had my husband, who is working from home today, pour a generous bowl of kata mita. Am I pronouncing that correctly? Yes. Thank you.

Put on PJs and took it upstairs to eat while I watch House Hunters. Seated on my heated mattress pad to calm the wicked backache from operating is a weird position. And that's katamita? Yes. And what is katamita? It's like Indian crack. I take it you are of Indian ancestry?

That is correct. And what is it actually made out of? It's like, it's kind of like an Indian version of Chex Mix, and it's like a spicy, sweet combination. You got me. No, you don't have to tell any more than that. Sold in the room. All right.

Yeah, you could have just summarized by saying, yeah, it's the hotness. This is, so far he's being really nice. What's the next slide, please? She may need a 12-step program. House Hunters, I need a daily dose. Not Anna Kendrick. What? Anna Kendrick? House Hunters should be called couples realizing they should see other people.

Good one, movie star Anna Kendrick. Yeah, really. What makes her so popular is that she understands the common person. She has the common touch. Have you ever heard him repeat like a burn to House Hunters that clearly Anna Kendrick wrote?

All right, next slide, please. Does he ever say, here's another Kendrick classic? You know, the great poet Anna Kendrick said. She has tried to find alternatives, stopped into the house to control-alt-delete myself after a night on call. Nice terminology. I like that. Walked into Sunil watching American Ninja Warrior. Is that your son?

Yes. Yeah, okay. Now everyone is gone, and I'm still sitting here watching. Could this be my new house hunters? Next slide, please. House hunters hitting our first-ever Chicago condo building. Oh, you missed. Okay. Sometimes it makeso building. Oh, you missed. Okay.

Sometimes it makes you cry. Oh, I see. So it says sometimes it makes her cry and you saw house hunters in Chicago and it made you cry. They're in Chicago a lot and I get sentimental for where I did my surgery training. Oh, okay. Gotcha.

So it's a personal feeling. All right. Got it. Next. How many of these are there, by the way? 536. The same amount of episodes. I assumed the editors would maybe cut a few out. Let's go to the next one.

Sometimes it makes her angry. Next. Some mothers dream for their children to go to Harvard, but you dream me while driving on Newton Street in Brookline, Mass. Wow, look at those houses. They're so beautiful. Sona, they're all Tudors, right? Is that your daughter? That's my daughter. Such a proud mama moment.

Next slide. Okay, I think I get the idea. I appreciate that you made 3,000 slides for me to read and describe for a podcast, but I think that that moment when Sona said all tutors and you felt that flush of pride, I felt a little something there myself. Tim, this is obviously very meaningful to your wife. Do you take more pleasure in making fun of house hunters or making her feel bad. I'm not trying to make her feel bad.

What is it he does? Does he make comments? Well, if he wants to make comments, I'd rather he talk about the curb appeal or the trim and the molding or like, oh, what a terrible bathroom. And instead he's like, that's what he decided to wear on national TV? And he often will sort of get into the irrationality

of some of the potential homebuyers with the disconnect between the budget and the wants and things like that. Whereas I just want to appreciate the properties. Do you think you could do better? You could dress better on national TV if you were hunting for a house there, Tim? No comment.

Okay. Tim, to your point of it being a fake show, it is. Almost every single person on House Hunters has already purchased a house, and then they sort of reverse engineer the other two choices. What?

Yeah, that's how it works. Yeah, they'll often find someone who's already bought a house, and then they'll find two other houses knowing that they won't pick that house, and then they found the house they want. But the story, it sounds like... Also, Mark L. Wahlberg is really a lizard person. Yes.

These are things that we know because we're in show business. This is what's revealed on day one in showbiz school. But it sounds like you don't care what house they pick, you just want a house creep. Where you look at another house that you don't live in. Right. Yes. Tim, do you ever look at other women?

I don't see how that applies here. Okay. Now, point being, there is no show that you watch that is your show that you enjoy. Parks and Recreation? Sure. So you can watch that at 10 a.m., 11 a.m., 12 p.m., all day long. That is true. And you know that show is fake.

But it's much better than House Hunters. But it's much better than House Hunters. How does this ruin your experience of watching House Hunters, if he's making these comments? Because I just want to sit and relax and watch the show. Why is that not enough for you to keep your trap shut for a minute, Tim? Because I'm being forced to watch a show that is fake, that is at best mediocrely produced, and when there is so much more television

to be watched out there that is much better as Ken pointed out and there are only so many hours in the day. What would you have me order that you watch instead? Parks and Recreation. She has not seen an episode. Oh, I see. You haven't even seen the episode

featuring the public radio hosts? One of them was super handsome and super cool. Yeah, I was also in that one. You've never watched Parks and Rec? No. How much time an evening do you have to watch television? Well, I usually, depending on when I get home, will watch television until I fall asleep in a pool of drool on the couch. Give me some numbers, depending on when I get home, will watch television until I

fall asleep. Give me some numbers. What time do you get home? An hour, hour and a half max. So 90 minutes of TV? Yeah. And you fill that all up with house hunters? Yes. What's the most number of house hunters you've watched in a row? Ballpark. Five. Five. Okay. So, do the math. It's two and a half hours, right? More or less? Okay, gotcha. How much do I... It's different on a weekend. So on a weekend, how much do you watch? Until the DVR is empty. Ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Can I ask you a serious question? Have you ever hid house hunters around the house? In the toilet bowl. Yeah, by opening your toilet bowl. Yeah, in the toilet bowl. Have you ever lied about your relationship with House Hunters? No. Do you think you have a

problem watching House Hunters? No. Do you have an addiction? I think it's a perfectly valid way to have some mindless stuff to decompress. Is there anything else that you watch? Well, so we will... Do you have 300 episodes of House Hunters piled by your bed? No, I don't.

But I want to thank you for validating my need to buy 65 more pairs of shoes. Do you also have 300 pairs of shoes? That could have been our case. Let the record show that she's wearing a necklace of a shoe. Alright.

Tim, you would like me to order her to watch one episode of Parks and Recreation? Yes. And limit her watching of House Hunters? Yes. To what? How many episodes per day? Weekdays? Weekdays, one episode of House Hunters. Aww.

Even that made me gasp. You can't watch just one of those things, but all right, I'll take it under advisement. They only broadcast one new one every day. On the weekend, how many episodes can she watch per day? Five. Oh, what a generous husband you've become.

It's because I work a lot of weekends. This is only when I'm home. Hina, why is it intolerable for you to watch one episode of Parks and Rec for every one episode of House Hunters? I mean, I guess I could do it. I don't know. All right.

I've heard everything I need to. I'm going to go binge watch all my episodes of Blindspot. By which I mean both of them. And watch myself die again and again and again and contemplate, and that's what gives me comfort. Yeah, you had time to watch it, weirdo. I'll be back in a moment with my decision.

Please rise metaphorically as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Thank you. Tim, can I ask you a quick question? Have you ever seen the television show Comedy Bang Bang on IFC, the independent film channel? I am familiar. I was on that one time. We're just listing our TV credits, right? I have zero TV credits, but I do have a list of people,

things, and places that I know that have gotten TV credits before me. Including my DVD box set of the show Wonderfalls, which appeared on Last Comic Standing. And my uncle's dog Thor, who ran away and was found by a man named Thor. I will say that Hina has also appeared in at least one episode of a real-life medical documentary show. Oh, so you also go on my list of people who have gotten a television credit before me. But two questions I have for you is it seems like you enjoy looking at houses. Yes.

So a recommendation I would have is I call it catch-and-release house hunting. And they're called open houses. And you can go into them on weekends and walk around, and that's it. So I used to do that all the time when we were in Chicago. But then she became a doctor and had much easier access to pills. Yes. Right. No, it's just harder to orchestrate in the suburbs.

It was so easy in the city. You'd pick a neighborhood and just walk into open houses and pretend. By open houses, you mean houses having an open house, not just unlocked houses. Correct. I've never been to Chicago at any length of time, so I don't know how it is. And also, there are several other shows set in Chicago that you may find very soothing, such as Punky Brewster or Chicago Hope, a medical drama. No, no.

No medical. Okay. I would go with Punky Brewster, then, a medical drama. No, no, no. No medical, okay. I would go with Punky Brewster then, much less depressing. It's about a little girl abandoned in a shopping mall by her mother and she's found by an elderly gentleman who's a confirmed bachelor and wears French cuffs. Although, Ken, downside, no Mandy Patinkin. No Mandy Patinkin. So that's going to be a downside for that one.

That's a downside for everything. Well, we'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about all of this. Please rise metaphorically as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom. You may be seated. Some stories are told for a number of reasons.

Historically, stories have been told as a way of keeping and passing down history in the oral tradition or moral instruction and cohering a group under a certain common moral code. They have been told to entertain, and they have been told simply to distract. You tell a story around a fire so you don't have to think about what is out there in the dark behind you. Some stories are challenging. Some stories are provocative and make you change your mind, and some stories just blow you into a beautiful, beautiful state of meditative contemplating of open kitchen plans. But there is a certain pleasure that is taken from story when it creates an expectation

and defies it in interesting ways. There's a certain satisfaction that comes from engaging in a story that creates an expectation and defies it in interesting ways. There's a certain satisfaction that comes from engaging in a story that creates an expectation through the narrative and defies it in a completely mind-boggling way and a troubling way. And then there's a certain pleasure that comes from a story that creates an expectation and satisfies it perfectly every time. That is why we have police procedurals. That is why we have detective novels where you can figure it out halfway through and can feel smarter than the author. And that is why we have house hunters both here and abroad and in small homes and underground homes and homes that float in the

air and homes that are inside of other homes. Secret second homes where you keep secret families, that sort of all different stripe of homes in the world. And you, Tim, have an abundance of, not that you do not work incredibly hard because parenting is incredibly challenging, and obviously all the other stuff you do around the house too, presuming that you actually do it, I'm guessing. He does.

But I think it's fair to say that you do not have the level of stress visited upon you that your wife does in her life, literally life-saving and death-avoiding job that she does every day. And her needs of story are different from yours, perhaps because of the different pace of day that you guys have, or perhaps it's just because she likes what she likes. What she needs when she comes home is to zone out to this thing that gives her pleasure. There she knows exactly the beats as they are going to come, and she can sift through the minute differences

between this same story that is told over and over and over again. It's always house two. What she does not need is you ruining this for her by either implicit or explicit critique of the thing that she's enjoying. She does need to watch Parks and Recreation, however. I think it's fair to say that because you are putting your hands in other people's bodies and saving their lives, I hope... I do my best. Yes. That you should get what you want out of television when the time comes for you to watch it.

Because you must be tired and you must enjoy pleasure. But like all things in life, you need to also have a varied cultural diet. And your husband enjoys something that he wants to share with you. And I think you should let that into your life. I do not think it is at all fair to suggest that she watch one episode of House Hunters per day, that is a weird form of torture. The point of the exercise is the repetition of the story over and over and over again.

Watching what Joseph Campbell called the universal hero go through the depths of the underworld until finding that perfect deck. Do you know what I mean? You need to see that universal mythos play over and over again, at least twice. But for the third story, an episode of Parks and Rec,

I think is there to balance it out, and maybe you'll find a new kind of pleasure, although that is a story that is extremely comforting, but also one that is a little bit, defies expectation in interesting ways. And I think you might enjoy it, and then Tim will have that in his life. All I'm asking is that for every two, you watch one. And Tim, when she's watching those two, zip it. This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Hina and Tim, ladies and gentlemen, from the TV Guidance Counselor podcast, Ken Reed. Judge Hodgman, we're almost done with tonight's proceedings, but rather than closing with a recitation of comforting television programs, why don't we close with some beautiful music?

I think that sounds great. Will you introduce our guest once again? Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome back to the stage Juliana Hatfield. Thank you. After that, I want to sing a song about a house. laughter I was sitting in my car

Looking at the house I was in the audience I was standing in the back of the club They're selling the house Something's gone I can't find What I left in the basement How long has it been gone? I like dreaming

Where everything is new And nothing has been decided upon Like how you feel or what to do Something's lost The life you wanted to live Let me leave. Don't listen to me. Don't go away again.

Don't go away again Don't send me away again I won't send you away again Don't go away again Don't go away again Don't send me away again I won't send me away again I won't send you away again Thank you very much. Thank you to Julianne Hatfield for playing some great music for us in Boston.

Wild Stab is the album that she released with Paul Westerberg under the name The I Don't Cares. You can find it wherever music is sold. You can also visit JulianneHatfield.com for more information. Thanks also to our friend Ken Reed, our TV expert witness. He's the host of the TV Guidance Counselor podcast, which you can find at tvguidancecounselor.com. It's really fun. He goes and gets a TV guide from his huge collection, and he and a guest break down the TV lineups of that time period. It's a real fun show. We also want to thank all of our litigants in Boston

who shared their arguments with us. A bunch of people helped us put on this show. Thanks to the staff at the Wilbur Theater, Daniel Davis, Matthew Barnhart, and Jennifer Marmer

for putting the show together. Tickets are on sale now for Judge John Hodgman at San Francisco Sketch Fest in January and Very, Very Fun Day in Chicago in February. Find ticket links

and more information at MaximumFun.org. Tickets for MaxFunCon, both West and East, are on sale now. You can find those tickets at MaxFunCon.com. We're looking for disputes for both of our live shows, that's San Francisco and Chicago, and for the podcast. Submit a case to Judge John Hodgman at MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. A big one, a small one. It doesn't matter. We love them.

If you're on the fence about it, just do it. MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. If you want to email us, Hodgman at MaximumFun.org. We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. MaximumFun.org. Judge John Hodgman podcast.